1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Reveals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, 2 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: I'm Jordan, and today we're gonna talk about the White 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: Stripes versus the Black Keys. And this rivalry is really 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: interesting to me because on the surface, it seems really simple. 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: It seems like Jack White doesn't like the Black Keys. 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: He doesn't think Nashville is big enough for two retro 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: rock guitar and drum duos who have colors in their names, 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: you know, which is weird because I always thought Jet 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: sounded more like, you know, at least vocally, like they 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: were ripping off the White Stripes. And also, you would 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: think that Jack White and Dana Arbuck would have a 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: lot to say to each other, right they throw on 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: like a Sonics record and crack open a beer. But 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: that's not the case. Yeah, you know, I wrote about 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: this revelry in my book Your Favorite Band Is Killing Me, 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: and it actually ended up being one of the more 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: personal chapters because to me, this is like a really 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: good allegory for something that like I struggle with and 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of other dudes struggle with which 22 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: is like a forming adult male relationships, Like it can 23 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: be really hard to do. And I feel like the 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: inability of Jack White and Dan our Back to just 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: get along because it's really about those two guys. Patrick Carney, 26 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: of course, is also in The Black Keys, and he's 27 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: been involved in this somewhat, But I feel like it's 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: really between like Jack and Dan and you look at 29 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: them on paper and you're like, Okay, you live in 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: the same town, you're in the same profession. Their kids 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: went to the same school, or at least they did 32 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: for a time, and we're gonna talk about that in 33 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: this episode as well. You know, they both like blues rock. 34 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's like a lot of things these guys 35 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: have in common, and yet because of some mix of 36 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: like Macheesmo and like competition, they can't get Yeah exactly, 37 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: I guess I just want Jack White and Dan Auerbach 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: to be bros, to show the rest of us bro 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: was how to be bros. And you know, there's a 40 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: funny little moment in the in the documentary it might 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: get loud, when Jack's on his way to have a 42 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: guitar throw down with Jimmy Page and the Edge, and 43 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: the director asks Jack, you know, how do you think 44 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: this is all going to go down? Jack kind of 45 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: size and says, I don't know, We'll probably have a 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: fist fight. He's he's I'm sure he's kidding on some level, 47 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: but on another level, I don't know that he is. 48 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Like I feel like he's almost speaking for like all 49 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: dudes when confronted with having to meet new dudes for 50 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: the first time, like, oh, maybe maybe we will have 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: a fight, like you know, Stephen, Like, I'm surprised we 52 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: didn't get into a fight when we first met, which 53 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, just so we're clear, I'm the 54 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: Jack White in the scenario, I'm the old timey pale nerd, 55 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and you're definitely Jimmy Page. Well I appreciate that analogy 56 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: because I like Jimmy Page. I also worship Staton. So 57 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, I feel like we have any comment, But 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: that's for another episode. Why don't we get into the 59 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: background of the White Stripes and Black Keys feud. Let's 60 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: get into this mess. So the first real sign of 61 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: trouble is this really interesting quote that Jack gives in 62 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: interview with Rolling Stone. Uh, he says, I'm a lot 63 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: more to do with jay Z than the Black Keys, which, huh, Like, 64 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: the only thing I can think of that maybe he's 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: referring to is that that sort of knocked that great 66 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: James Bond theme that he did with Alicia Keys the 67 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: year before jay Z did Empire state of mind. Like 68 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: that's the only comparison I can think of. Like, am 69 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: I missing something here? Yeah? I don't know. I mean 70 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: I think he was just basically trying to distance himself 71 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: in the Black Keys. Yeah, I I never really understood that. 72 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: This was also the same year that that Brothers the 73 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: Black Key's sixth album really breaks through, and that's also 74 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: the year that the Black He's settled in Nashville, and 75 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: the White Stripes at this time, they're kind of on 76 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: the ropes. They're gonna announce their split formally the next year, 77 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: but they're already kind of a spent force at that stage. 78 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: So I guess Jackson in this other band kind of 79 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: doing his own thing and being really successful at it 80 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: when his own group is really on the way out. 81 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: I can see why he'd sort of begrudge them their success. 82 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: But uh so, Yeah, it's like to say that Jack 83 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: White was not part of the Black Keys Nashville Welcome Committee. No, 84 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: not at all, and Dan even says that he gives 85 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: an interview a couple of years later when the the 86 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: journalists asked him if he knows Jack White, which is 87 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, same town, same profession, same 88 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: collection of really obscure old guitars, like you think they 89 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: would allow to say to each other, and dannar back 90 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: gives us really diplomatic answer. He says, no, I I 91 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: don't know Jack, which is kind of like when Mariah 92 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: Carey has asked if she knows j Lo and she says, oh, no, 93 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: I don't know her end of kind of statement. There's 94 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: there's some frostiness there, and the journalist keeps on pushing it, says, well, 95 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: you know you're I know you're tight with the racon 96 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: Tours drummer Jack's other band, Like why don't you arrange 97 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: an introduction? Dan's kind of like, well, you know, do 98 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: you hang out with every writer in Nashville. No, Like, 99 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: just because we're in the same job doesn't mean we 100 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: have to hang out, which it is true, I guess, 101 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, but you definitely feel like they would have 102 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: run into each other at like you know, the antique 103 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: guitar store or something, or looking at like ancient phonographs, 104 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, like I feel like their past would have crossed. Yeah, 105 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's fascinating me because I think when you 106 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: look at these two bands, obviously there's the obvious comparison 107 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: that you can make about being two person blues rock bands. Uh, 108 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: they definitely have a similar aesthetic there. I think it's 109 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: fair to say that, like when we look at music history, 110 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: that the White Stripes have a stature that is greater 111 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: than the Black Keys. Uh. You know, Jack White is 112 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: a musician who has rubbed shoulders with like the biggest 113 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: rock legends that there are. You know, he's friends with 114 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, he knows Mick Jagger, you know, he did 115 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: that movie with Jimmy Page. And I don't think the 116 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: Black Keys have that kind of stature. And yet there 117 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: was a time, you know, in the early two thousand 118 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: tens where they were one of the most successful rock 119 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: bands on the planet. And I think in a way 120 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: they had more pop success then the White Stripes, did, 121 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: you know. I think that had something to do with 122 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: the fact that, like the Black He's were willing to 123 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: conform to the formula of pop radio more than than 124 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: Jack White ever would have been. You know, they worked 125 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: with Danger Mouse on Brothers, and then he basically became 126 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: a member of the band on their next record, al Camino, 127 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: and both of those albums went platinum, which was a 128 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: pretty incredible thing for a rock band to do at 129 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: that time. I mean, I think the Black Keys were 130 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: among the only rock bands selling at that kind of level. 131 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 1: And it does seem like Jack White in some way 132 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: might have felt like the Black Keys were benefiting from 133 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: his misfortune, because, as you mentioned the White Stripes, you know, 134 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, they were not in a 135 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: good place. I think they played their last show ever 136 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: what ended up being their last show in two thousand nine, 137 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: and then they ended up announcing their breakup in early 138 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven. And I think you can explain the 139 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: success of the Black Keys for the reasons I already stated, 140 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: like working with Danger Mouse and you know, just having 141 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: a better pop sense. But it's maybe that totally wrong 142 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: that like their ascendants had something to do with the 143 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: White Stripes and up being around, Like there's definitely a 144 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: coincidence there where the White Stripes disappeared and the Black 145 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: Keys become this huge band, And whether that's sure or not, 146 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: that's like how Jack Whites saw it at the time. 147 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: And I'm genuinely trying to remember. At the time in 148 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: when they announced their breakup, I felt as though they 149 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: split up at the top of their game. I didn't 150 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: think of it as like a band that was kind 151 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: of past. It's saying, you know what, they were going 152 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: to hang it up. Did you at the time get 153 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the feeling that they were kind of on their way out? 154 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: Like they seemed so huge to me still, Like I 155 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: didn't think of it as being the case of like, 156 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, they were kind of sun setting on them. No. 157 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: I think the White Stripes again, they had, I think, 158 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: really established themselves as like one of the marquee bands 159 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: of their generation, especially when you look at those early records, um, 160 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, the self type of record and to steal 161 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: and then of course White Blood Cells was their big 162 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: breakout and an elephant like really put them through the roof. 163 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: And that's the record that has seven Nation Army on it, 164 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: which I mean, I think many people consider that to 165 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: be like the biggest anthem of the last twenty years. 166 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's certainly the song that you hear in 167 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: stadiums all the time. I mean it organically became this 168 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: like big sports song that like people would sing the 169 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: guitar riff, which is a pretty incredible song, and there's 170 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: no there's there's no Black Keys song that has that 171 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: kind of stature. I think this is an instance of 172 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: like the White Stripes sort of taking themselves out because 173 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Meg White didn't want to tour anymore, and maybe there 174 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: was just a hunger out there for a two person 175 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: blues rock band, and people were like, well, if the 176 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: White Stripes aren't here, let's go with this other band 177 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: that has a color in their name, you know, and 178 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: they have some pretty good songs too, And this is 179 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: the kind of music that you want to put in 180 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: beer commercials and hot wings commercials and you know whatever. 181 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: Like I mean, that's what the Black Keys became, and 182 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: that at that time that not only were their songs 183 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: huge on the charts, but like it seemed like every 184 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: sort of masculine corporate brand put a Black Keys song 185 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: or Black Keys rip off in their commercial. You know, 186 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: it just made their music inescapable. For a few years. Oh, 187 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: I mean I I put the Black Keys, And when 188 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: I think of as like the Pink echelon, like the 189 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: artist Pink, where I feel like her songs like Monday 190 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: Night Football and just every they just unavoidable on like 191 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: and their pictures are on like sides of busses and 192 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: billboards and stuff like that. Yeah, they definitely they had 193 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: no problem licensing their stuff out, which I was always 194 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: interesting in later years they kind of like sidestep the 195 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: whole question of you know, sellout by basically saying, look, 196 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: we we can't afford to be this indie band, like 197 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: we we want to make we don't have a fallback, 198 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: we don't have a trust fund. We we want to 199 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: make music for everybody. So I thought it was really 200 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: interesting how they, I mean, we'll touch more on this later, 201 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: how Jack was so about you know, musical authenticity and 202 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: not selling out and they never really, at least to 203 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: my knowledge, got got hit with those accusations. But getting 204 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: ahead of herself. Yeah, I mean I think, um, they 205 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: definitely suffered that stigma from Jack White himself. You know, 206 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: Jack White, I think definitely looked at them as like 207 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: a sellout band because again, as you said, like the 208 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: Black Keys did a lot of things that the White 209 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: Stripes never would have done and didn't do in their career, 210 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: But the Black Pies also show that when you do 211 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: those things, you can actually benefit greatly from that. It's 212 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: also worth noting too that, like, as you said, like 213 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: the black He's have made that argument about how like 214 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: we have to be in all these ads because you know, 215 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: we're not trust fund kids. You know, we come from 216 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: this like middle class Midwestern background, so you know we 217 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: don't have the same hang ups maybe about working with 218 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: corporations that like other you know, maybe better pedigree bands do. 219 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Jack White also comes from the Midwest, and 220 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: he's also from I think like a lower middle class background. 221 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: I think he had a pretty big family I want 222 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: to like nine kids or something. Yeah, right, So it's 223 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: not like he was a trust fund kid either. That 224 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: just kind of adds another layer to um this feud 225 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: here because they really again are coming from very similar places, 226 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: but they just had different ways about going in their career. 227 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: It does seem like as this feud progresses that Jack 228 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: White is the instigator over and over again. I Mean 229 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: it seem like there's a pattern where like Jack White 230 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: will act out and the Black Keys will react to it, 231 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: but they're mainly trying to tamp it down, and then 232 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: it dies down for a bit and then Jack White 233 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: does something else that makes it worse. There was apparently 234 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: an incident in when Danna Roback goes by the Third 235 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: Man's studios to try to, I guess see Jack White, 236 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: and Jack uh bars him from a studio. Was he 237 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: like standing in the door or something like he's like 238 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: physically was like, that's the story. I heard that he 239 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: was like actually himself, he was basically I don't know 240 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: if I didn't hear that. Oh, I really hope he's 241 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: like to be wrong, like a scarecrow with like a 242 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: thing of straw hanging out of his mouth. Exactly. I 243 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: could be wrong. Don't quote me on that. I probably 244 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: shouldn't say on a podcast if I don't know for sure, 245 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: But like, let's just say that he did do that 246 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: because it's more fun. But I'm not confirming that that's 247 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: the fact, But it's fun to pretend that Jack White, yes, 248 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: was trusted as a scarecrow in the door trying to 249 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: keep them out of the study studio, and like, you 250 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: know that that's a fairly egregious thing. And the black 251 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: Keys are doing interview with Rolling Stone later that year 252 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: in twelve, and they sort of tangentially mentioned they don't 253 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: get intuity refused. Danna are Back refuses to really elaborate 254 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: on it, but it comes out of the course of 255 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: the interview that that Jack White barred him from the studio, 256 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone calls Jack White and basically tries to 257 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: fact check this, and Jack gives him his incredible statement, 258 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: anything you've ever heard anyone say about me is one accurate. 259 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: That was his comment when asked to deny that he 260 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: blocked Danna are Back from the studio. So clearly he's 261 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: got an ax to grind here. And yes, definitely, yeah, 262 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: And I feel like the big thing that happened with 263 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: these bands, well, first of all, I mean they squared 264 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: off at the Grammys two. I guess we should mention that. 265 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: And again, this was like when Jack White, you know, 266 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: he was trying to establish his solo career and he 267 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: put his first solo record, Blunderbust, that came out in twelve. 268 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: I think that's his best solo record still. Um, I 269 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: think that's a really good record. And it was actually 270 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: nominated for Album of the Year that year. It didn't 271 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: win of course, and in the category were the Black 272 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: Keys and Jack White were both nominated. The Black Keys 273 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: one for their song Lonely Boy that was in the 274 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: Best Rock Song category, and then they also win in 275 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: the Best Rock Album category too against Jack White. Camino 276 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: won that one for Best Rock Album. I gotta say, though, 277 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: Lonely Boy kind of was the best rock song of 278 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: whatever year it was, right, What do you think? Yeah, 279 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean the Black Keys were definitely 280 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: in their prime as far as like a commercial rock band. 281 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: I know, there's like a lot of people who actually 282 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: don't like those records, like Black Keys fans who prefer 283 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: like the early garage rock stuff like Thick Freakness and 284 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Rubber Factory, like those records, and they look at the 285 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: pop records as being you know, sort of like a 286 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: watered down version of what the Black Keys were doing. Um, 287 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: Whereas I cook to look at it as like they 288 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: made a decision to be a commercial rock band at 289 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: that time, and I think they did a pretty good job. 290 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: And as you said, like Lonely Boy in terms of 291 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: like like a like a rock radio type song, like 292 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: it didn't get much better than that at that time. 293 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: I mean, if you were listening to rock radio, like 294 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: in Lonely Boy was as good as a guy. I mean, 295 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: there were some really bad songs. That was That was 296 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: the summer of I believe right, which I mean actually 297 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: got t a you know, was even that I would 298 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: take over like a lot of what's on rock radio now, 299 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: that's like somebody that used to know that song. Yeah, yeah, 300 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: he had that one song and then he left like 301 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: there's no more Gautier after that. He had his one 302 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: song and he's like, I can't believe you let me 303 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: have one hit. This is amazing. I'm I'm gonna bounce. 304 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: But I feel like the feud between the Black Keys 305 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: and the White Stripes really took off during the divorce 306 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: hearings between Jack White and Karen Nelson, who is soon 307 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: to be ex wife, because there were a bunch of 308 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: emails that Jack White wrote to Karen Nelson that were 309 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: leaked during this case, and I don't remember if Jack 310 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: White talked about anything other than the Black Keys in 311 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: these emails, Like the Black Key stuff is the only 312 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: things I remember. I feel like like those were the 313 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: things that were blown up in the press. Do you 314 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: remember reading about that? Oh yeah, I mean who would 315 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: have thought Jack White would have wound up on TMZ. 316 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: Like I just remember thinking that was the weirdest thing, 317 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: and then I actually read and but you're right, like 318 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: these emails, I guess they were like his soon to 319 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: be ex wife submitted them to the court, But I 320 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: don't really understand what they sought to prove. I think 321 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: they were just trying to make Jack White look like 322 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: unhinged and bad, but not in like a criminal sense, 323 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: just in like a really petty way. So I don't know. 324 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: I never really understood like why they were submitted, but 325 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: but they were out there, they made it to TMZ 326 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: and they were pretty hilarious. Yeah, well, he says that. 327 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: In the emails, Jack White is talking about how he 328 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: feels like the Black Keys ripped him off. He gets 329 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: really mad about how the children that he has with 330 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: Karen Nelson are going to be sent to the same 331 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: private Nashville school that Dan Auerbach children go to, And 332 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: there's a quote in there where he says, my concern 333 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: with our box is because I don't want the kids 334 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: involved in any of that crap. And I don't know 335 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: what he means by that crap, Like I guess just 336 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: the feud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you know his kids 337 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: are going to be soiled by inferior blues rock combos. 338 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what the I don't know what that 339 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: crap prefers to, but he says, you aren't thinking ahead, 340 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: that's a possible twelve fucking years I'm going to be 341 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: sitting in kids chairs next to that asshole with other 342 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: people trying to lump us together. He gets another free 343 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: reign to follow me around and copy me and push 344 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: himself into my world. So Jack White is basically having 345 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: these like rage fantasies about being at like parent teacher 346 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: conferences and having right like these two huge men and 347 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: like tiny chairs and Dana are black. The whole time 348 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: is it's gonna be plagiarizing like the latest Jack White 349 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: like masterstroke for like the next twelve fucking years, as 350 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: he says. And of course again like these are not 351 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: public statements that he's making. These are emails that he's 352 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: writing to his again soon to be ex wife that 353 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: are leaked. And again like this is another instance where 354 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess Jack White wasn't trying to be 355 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: the instigator here, but he you know, ended up sort 356 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: of inadvertently being the instigator. But then like the Black Keys, 357 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: they stepped in and they're actually like pretty gracious in 358 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: their response, right, Oh, they were super cool about it. Yeah, 359 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: they were saying, like, you know what that that's what 360 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: he said, was like pretty fucked up. But Petrick Carney 361 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: said it was a private conversation. He's talking to Rolling Stone. 362 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: So we've all said, like, you know, terrible things about 363 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: other people and in private, like how awful would that 364 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: be if everything that we ever said to somebody about 365 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: somebody we don't like just all got aired in one 366 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: big like you know, airing of the grievances of terrible 367 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: And he's right, you know, he said, ultimately it's no 368 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: one's business. He sounds like an asshole, but I actually 369 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: feel embarrassed for him. And yeah, the band said, no, 370 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: we don't hold any grudges. Like it's sucked up that 371 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: that happened to him. All righty, and we'll be right 372 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: back with more rivals. So this is all going down, 373 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: I guess, you know. It's like late summer, and again 374 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: these emails are leaked, and depending on your point of view, 375 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: either Jack White is humiliated or the Black Keys are humiliated, 376 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: you know. But it's definitely fostering some real resentment between 377 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: these these guys. And then Jack White really goes into 378 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: instigator mode. I guess it's in May in another Rolling 379 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: Stone interview. I mean, this is the one like where 380 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: he's really unloading on them, and you know, I wonder 381 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: if you would have done this, But what he says 382 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: in this if those emails hadn't leaked, you know what 383 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I wont of us would have been 384 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: kept on the rabs. But now he's like, well it's 385 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: out there. I'm as well really just onload and really 386 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: articulate my point. I don't know, it's interesting to think about. Yeah, yeah, 387 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: I know, yeah, he might have just said, like, what 388 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: the hell? All right, Okay, look, I don't have to 389 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: pretend to be nice anymore. I'm gonna really say what 390 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: I think about these guys. You know, he compares them 391 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: to the kids at school who dressed like everybody else 392 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: because they don't know what else to do. You know, 393 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: they just kind of copy whatever the trends are. And 394 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: Jack goes on says, you know, I hear TV commercials 395 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: with music ripping off sounds of mine to the point 396 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: where I really think it's me half the time it's 397 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: the Black Keys. It was probably all the time it 398 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: was the Black Keys. At again, if you were selling beer, 399 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: hot wings, or like tires or you know, anything kind 400 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: of like like a dude related product, there was like 401 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: some black Keys sounding like guitar riff playing in the background. 402 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: Jack to his credit, he kind of like he admits 403 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: that he, you know, I'm a white guy playing the blues, 404 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: like I can't really claim any ownership over that. But 405 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: he did make the point that there's you know, an 406 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: act can open up a certain kind of style, all 407 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: another acts follow in the wake, and he uses the 408 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: analogy of Amy Winehouse kind of setting the trend for 409 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: Adele and Duffy and these kind of retro white girl 410 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: beehive their English soul singers. And he made the point 411 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: that you know, had Amy Winehouse lived, maybe Adele wouldn't 412 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: be as huge as issue was, which is a fascinating point, 413 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, an interesting alternate music history point. Yeah, 414 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think he's totally wrong there, Like 415 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: I said before, you know, I think certainly in his 416 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: mind he felt that when the Black Key's really became 417 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: a big thing, which was in two thousand and ten, basically, 418 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: like they put out that single Tighten Up, which was 419 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: from the album Brothers, and that song became a pop 420 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: hit in a way that like no Black Keys song 421 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: had been a hit before. And two thousand ten just 422 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: happened to coincide with this period where the White Stripes 423 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: were not very active. I mean, they essentially cut short 424 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: of tour in two thousand nine and then they went 425 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: into this hiatus period that ultimately ended with their breakup 426 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: in twenty then. So there's certainly this like coincidental alignment 427 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: of the White Stripes going away and the Black Keys 428 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: starting to rise. And again I think to merely say that, like, oh, 429 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: the Black Keys became popular because the White Stripes weren't around, 430 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, that's definitely oversimplifying things. But speaking to Jack 431 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: White's point, I don't think there's a question that like 432 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: Amy Whitehouse, for instance, popularize the type of like retro 433 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: soul music that like someone like Adele took and applied 434 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: to her own music. And if Amy Whitehouse hadn't been 435 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: there to open the door, maybe it would have been 436 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: harder for Adele to capitalize on this market that was 437 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: already in place, Like when when when she emerged. Um 438 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: to say that Adele wouldn't have become huge if Amy 439 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: Whitehouse had lived, that's probably oversimplifying it again, just like 440 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: it is in the White Stripes Black Keys analogy. But yeah, 441 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: I mean again, I don't think he's totally wrong to 442 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: say that. The thing with Jack White, though, is, you know, 443 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: I just feel like his image has changed a lot 444 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: from say, like the early odds, because like I remember, 445 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: like when Jack White first emerged and he was like 446 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: one of the coolest rock stars on the planet. And 447 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: I feel like maybe people like around my age, like 448 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: I'm in my early forties, I think we look at 449 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: Jack White in a certain kind of way that like 450 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: younger people don't, you know, Like I don't think that 451 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: Jack White is all that cool necessarily for like younger people. 452 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: I feel like he's now taken on this image of 453 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: just being like a grumpy, sort of anti technology guy 454 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: who's like, you know, listening to like Vinyl records all 455 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: day long, you know, like with like a monocle or 456 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: something you know, or whatever, like whatever kind of like snobby, 457 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, caricature you want to make about Jack White. 458 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: I mean like I'm curiously because you're a little bit 459 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: younger than me, Like, what do you think about Jack White, 460 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: Like does he have any kind of like mystique for you. 461 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: I mean there's definitely a transition between I think of 462 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: it as him between him wearing T shirts and jeans 463 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: and him dressing like an amish willy Wonka. I think 464 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: there was definitely a transition there. I mean for me, 465 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: he was huge, total legend. I mean Seven Nation Army 466 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: for my age group was like stairway to heaven for 467 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: all the kids who wanted to learn to play guitar, 468 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: like that was the first riff that you learned how 469 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: to play. I mean the iconography around the white stripes 470 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: in general was you know, in the record stores in 471 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: in my town were literally alongside led Zeppelin and Nirvana. 472 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean they were probably the only twenty first century 473 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: band I can think of that the posters were sold 474 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: in those stores alongside those classic rock bands. I mean 475 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: that they were huge and and so no I I 476 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: I see now kind of years later when he again 477 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: kind of became the anti technology guy, who really, uh, 478 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: you're right, seemed like like this curmudgeon, especially when all 479 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: the stuff about the Black Keys came out. And I 480 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: also have a lot of friends who were guitar players 481 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: who are angry at him for buying up all these 482 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: and popularizing these like old cheap uh like airline guitars 483 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: and stuff, and now they're all really really expensive and 484 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: unaffordable because he popularized them. But no, I uh, people 485 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 1: in my age group thought he was you know, our 486 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: Jimmy Page or something. Thought he was huge, that was amazing. Again, 487 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: I think that there is like this maybe duality with 488 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: the White Stripes. I think the White Stripes have like 489 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: a different stature than Jack White has on his own. 490 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: I think like as a solo artist, he's still sort 491 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: of struggling to established an identity that makes sense in 492 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: the modern era. Like I think if he got back 493 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: together with Meg White and did a tour, I think 494 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: there'd be a whole lot other level of excitement for 495 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: that than there would be for his own solo records, 496 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: even though, like I I like a lot of his 497 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: solo records. But you know, again, like he's an aging 498 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: rock musician. You know, he's now I think in his forties, 499 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, it just seems like he's like this guy 500 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: that just insticates feuds with people or complains about people. 501 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: Being on their cell phones all the time, you know, 502 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: or complaining about social media all the time, and you 503 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: never want to be that guy. And you can really 504 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: see that manifest itself, I think in this Black Keys rivalry, 505 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: and I think on some level he was like self 506 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: aware about that, Like like this Rolling Stone interview that 507 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: he did, where again he was accusing essentially the Black 508 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: He's of ripping him off. Like he put out a 509 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: statement like right as the interview was about to come 510 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: out where like he apologized for it, which again it's 511 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: that's an incredible thing, isn't it, Like when you are 512 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: apologizing for an interview that like a lot of people 513 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: yet exactly it's like it it's like, oh no, like 514 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: I know I'm going to get in trouble for this, 515 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: like no one's even read it yet, but like he 516 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: can anticipate it. But like the apology that he gave, 517 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: like I mean, I don't know if you saw, like 518 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: did you see this, Like it doesn't seem like super sincere. 519 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: Oh no, all of it sounds incredibly backhanded and almost 520 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: condescending in ways. I thought. Yeah, I mean, like he 521 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: says like I wish the band the Black Keys all 522 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: the success they can get. He says, I hope the 523 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: best for their record label, and uh, he's like, Lord 524 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: knows that. I can tell you myself. A heart is 525 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: to get people to pay attention to a two piece 526 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: band with a plastic guitar. So any attention that the 527 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: Black Keys can get in the world, I wish it 528 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: for them again, kind of saying like, oh, yeah, I've 529 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: done what they've been there. I've been there and know 530 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: they're doing the same thing. It's cute and I know 531 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: it's hard and they're getting some attention, so good for them. 532 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: And uh. He also had to apologize for like essentially 533 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: slagging Adele lantadel Rey and and Duffy too, so like 534 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: he kind of offended them too by like saying they 535 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: would have a career if Amy Whitehouse had lived. So yeah, 536 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: I mean it was this very sort of condescending apology 537 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: that like probably didn't really achieve what he wanted. No, 538 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: I mean, especially the comparison things saying you know, I've 539 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: been there, I know what it's like. I feel like 540 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: that was gratuitous. That was the point for me. I'm 541 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: saying that you really this is really what you want 542 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: to be doing, or you just want to remind people 543 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: yet again that you've done exactly, You've walked that ground. 544 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: They're all in your wake right now because of you. 545 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: That's what I took it as. It's barely an apology, 546 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: more of just a way to remind people that that 547 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: he started this in a in a major mainstream way. 548 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: So you have this half big apology which you feel like, Okay, 549 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: maybe that's going to end it. But then the following year, 550 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: I guess it's like the fall of Like they got 551 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: into a barbrawl, like in New York, Like, like, what's 552 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: the deal with this story? Oh? This was incredible. So 553 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: Patrick Carney was performing at Neil Fest, a tribute concert 554 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: for Neil Young, and they were having an after party 555 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: at a barne a year called Cabin down Below. I 556 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: love the fact that a bar brawl took place at 557 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: a at a bar named after a Tom Petty song. 558 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: That's to me the best part of all this. So 559 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: Patrick Carney goes on Twitter and says, yeah, um, I 560 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: was at this bar last night. Never met Jack White 561 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: until last night. He came into a bar in New York. 562 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: I go to a lot with a few friends and 563 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: he tried to fight me. I don't fight, and I 564 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: don't get fighting, but he was mad three exclamation marks. 565 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: He's why I play music, the bully assholes who made 566 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: me feel like nothing. But anyway, Jack White, a fourty 567 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: year old bully tried to fight a thirty five year 568 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: old nerd. It might get loud, but it might also 569 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: get really, really sad and pathetic Jack White. This is 570 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: my favorite part. Jack White is basically Billy Corgan's dumbass 571 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: zero T shirt and human form. Patrick Garney, by the way, 572 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: is incredibly quotable, incredibly good with insults. Yeah, I man 573 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: like that, you know, like we've been focusing on Dan 574 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: are back and but the Patrick Carney element like with that, 575 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: like that is probably the best line that anyone had, 576 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: uh in this entire feuds. So tip the cat to 577 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: Patrick Kearney there. And of course, you know this this 578 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: tweet storm that catches Jack whites attention and he issues 579 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: a denial, but it's it's sort of like a non 580 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: denial denial, Like well, he says, like nobody tried to 581 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: fight you, Patrick, nobody touched you or bullied you. Bullied 582 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: is in is in quotes. You were asked a question 583 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: you couldn't answer. So you walked away, So quit whining 584 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: on the internet and speak face to face like a 585 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: human being. End of story. Which, by the way, for 586 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: regular listeners of this podcast, I always love it, like 587 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: when people in feuds really prioritize like the face to face, 588 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: like if you're going to assault me, but be in 589 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: the face. Like in our previous episode we talked about, 590 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: you know, creeding limp Biscuit, Scott Steff wrote that song 591 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: where he's like, if you're gonna shoot me in the head, 592 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: looked me in the face. Like, even if you're gonna 593 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: murder me, I want you to look me in the face. 594 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: So Jack very important in feuds exactly. So he denies it, 595 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: but then he also has this weird thing where he's like, 596 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: I asked you a question that you couldn't answer, which 597 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: do you think it? Very curious, I don't know. I 598 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: don't know, Like maybe it was about you know, hanging 599 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: out in like the Nashville private school again, like you know, 600 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: maybe that was still a thing. I don't know. I'm 601 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: very curious about that. But then, like I think Patrick Carney, 602 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: as we've said before, this was like an instant I 603 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: guess where the black Key's brought up this incident, even 604 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: though it again seems like Jack White instigated it, but 605 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: now I think Patrick Carney tried to tamp it down 606 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: after Jack White responded, yeah, they apparently they had a conversation, 607 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: and I think later that day or maybe the next day, 608 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: Patrick Carney deleted most of his tweets and tweeted out 609 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: talked to Jack for an hour. He's cool, all good, 610 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: which you know, it is a pretty nice way to 611 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: end it. And Jack White shared a similar message from 612 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: the Third Rail Records account said from one music istition 613 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: to another, you have my respect Patrick Carney, which is, 614 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, all that 615 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: these dudes really want respect from one another. It seemed 616 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: like it was like pretty much done after that, but 617 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: there were like a couple weird things that happened, Like 618 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: did you know that like Patrick Carney produced a couple 619 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: of songs by Jack White's ex wife Karen Elson. Oh yeah, 620 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: but they apparently was recorded at like the Third Man's 621 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: studios and everything. So I guess the Black Key's finally 622 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: got allowed into the Third Man's studios. So I would 623 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: take that as you know, tacit approval from Jack that 624 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: he was cool with it if you let him use 625 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: their studio, right exactly. Yeah, It's still a little weird though, 626 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: And like when you factor in like you know, Karen 627 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: Nelson's role in like leaking the emails, where like Jack White, 628 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: who was complaining about you know, the school and like 629 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, saying that the Black Key's ripped them off. 630 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: Kind of a funny wrinkle what if that was the 631 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: Black Key's plan all along, Like maybe Karen was like 632 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: sort of like the back channel double agent and like 633 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: they like put her up to leak those emails. Yeah, 634 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. The emails thing is crazy to me 635 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: because again, like I don't remember hearing about anything else 636 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: in those emails, So I don't know if like Jack 637 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: White was just like rage emailing his wife about the 638 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: Black Keys all the time, Like all of his emails 639 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: were just about the Black Keys for a while. It's 640 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: very strange to make his email is like black Keys 641 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: hater like at AOL dot com or something. So that 642 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: was kind of a weird thing, but it doesn't seem 643 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: like it was a big deal. And like there's been 644 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: things subsequent to that, like where they've made public displays 645 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: of support for each other. I think like when the 646 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: Black Keys put out a single in twenty nineteen from 647 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: their album Let's Rock. Didn't like Third Man Records like 648 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: tweet support for that song. Oh yeah, I said, more 649 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: evidence than Nashville Rock and Roll is alive, and well, 650 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: congrats on the new music Black Keys, which is you know, 651 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: really nice. And Patrick Carney returned the favor. He did 652 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: an interview with The Tennessee and and he called the 653 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: shout out really cool and he'd be big up the 654 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: new rock and Tours record, which I didn't much care for, 655 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: so that was very nice of him. And you know, 656 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: and it sounds like they've hung out in some recent 657 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: years and like they've you know, they both have talked 658 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: to journalists about how they really like each other. So 659 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: it seems like they have achieved that piece that we 660 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: were talking about earlier in the episode, this idea of 661 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: like how it could be hard for like adult males 662 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: to get over themselves and to you know, not look 663 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: at other men as threats and to be friendly with 664 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: each other. It seems like these guys have, uh, you know, 665 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: reached that place finally after many years of hating each other. 666 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: Just going back to the roots of this revelry, though, 667 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that like Jack White was 668 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: ever justified and feeling like he was ripped off by 669 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: these guys. I don't know, It's weird because he wears 670 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: his own like Delta blues influences so proudly. It's just 671 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: sort of strange like that he couldn't sort of see 672 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: that in another band they be like, oh cool, we 673 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: liked the same thing. So I understand the whole Amy 674 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: Winehouse argument about how he opened a lot of doors 675 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: that would have been closed to the Black Keys probably 676 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: had he not been the one to open them. But yeah, 677 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm just I am surprised that that he couldn't see 678 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: a fellow musical kindred spirit. And also like I really 679 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: don't think Jack's artistic legacy in the White Stripes commercial 680 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: success was in any way hindered by the Black Keys 681 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: at all. Right, No, not at all. I feel like, 682 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: if anything, you could say like, well, this is evidence 683 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: of how the White Stripes changed rock music, that in 684 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: a way they helped make this idea of like a 685 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: two person, you know, blues rock band like a commercial entity. 686 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's worth mentioning. And I think we've mentioned 687 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: Flat duo Jets a couple of times in this episode, 688 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: Like the White Stripes did not like originate the idea 689 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: of like two people playing like blues riffs like Flat 690 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: Duo Jets was they were doing it like in the eighties, 691 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: and uh, Jack White, to his credit, has talked about 692 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: that band being a huge inspiration for him. And of 693 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: course Flat Doo Jets were nowhere near as successful as 694 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: the White Stripes ended up being or the Black Keys, 695 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right. I mean, I think as far 696 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: as the White Stripes go, and the Black Keys were 697 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: really looking at bands on like two different strata away 698 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: where I think for a time, the Black Keys achieved 699 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: a kind of pop success that I don't think the 700 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: White Stripes ever had. Like I don't know if they 701 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: ever had a song like Tighten Up that was played 702 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: on pop radio. But it's also true that the White 703 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: Stripes never really pursued that kind of success in their career. 704 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: And I think it's fair to say that like Jack 705 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: White wouldn't have wanted a song on pop radio. You know, 706 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: he was very deliberate about the production choices he made 707 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: and the kind of songs that he wrote, if anything, 708 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, like as the White Stripes got later in 709 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: their career, like their records got weirder, like get behind 710 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: Me Satan is like a super weird record or Icky Thump. 711 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: You know, like those later White Stripes records are not 712 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: nearly as commercial as like say Elephant is, And you know, 713 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: the White Stripes didn't need that kind of pop success 714 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: because they had a certain kind of credibility that I 715 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: think was always going to sustain them in their career 716 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: and it probably would have stuck with them if if 717 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: they had been able to continue as a band, and 718 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, if they ever come back, I think there 719 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: would be a lot of excitement for the White Stripes. 720 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, for all their similarity is I think they 721 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: clearly could coexist in the world and not have to 722 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: go at each other's throats. My theory is that the 723 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: thing that bothered Jack White about the Black Keys is 724 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: that they made him feel less unique. And you get 725 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: the idea just even just looking at him and then 726 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: everything you know about him, that he cares very very 727 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,479 Speaker 1: deeply about being unique. It seems like every stylistic choice 728 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: that he makes appears to be rooted in this desire 729 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: to just seem different, Like it almost is contrarian in 730 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: a way. And I think just the Black Key's appearing 731 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: so similar to him, just that alone had nothing to 732 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: do with impringing on his commercial success or or his 733 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: legacy in any way. I think it just it made 734 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: him feel like less individual. Maybe, Yeah, I think that's 735 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: absolutely right. I think, you know, more than like having 736 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: like a similar band structure or playing like a similar 737 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: kind of music, it was that very thing you're talking about, 738 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: that like, Jack White wasn't the quirkiest guy in the 739 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: room anymore, or that like the kind of thing that 740 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: he did was, Yeah, not that unusual, because here's another 741 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: band that is doing it and they're just as successful, 742 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: in some ways more successful than your band. You know, 743 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: maybe that just shows that this was more normal than 744 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: you thought. And yeah, for a guy like Jack White, 745 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: it seems like being normal is like the worst thing 746 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: you could call him. Well, and here's a weird flip 747 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: side of the coin too. And I don't know, because 748 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: I was I was in high school, so I had 749 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: my own feelings about it, but I don't know you 750 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: who was you know, writing professionally at the time, it 751 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: was almost harder for me to take the Black Keys 752 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: seriously when they first came on the scene, because I 753 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: just thought of them as a knockoff White Stripes, and 754 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: I feel like nobody talks about their perspective of sort 755 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: of being lumped in and seen as like you know, 756 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: and also ran rock duo from the Midwest who did 757 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: old blues rock in this era, Like was that something 758 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: that was discussed a lot in critical circles of like 759 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,399 Speaker 1: when they first came on the scene, as being like, wait, 760 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: who are these people that are kind of trying to 761 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: get in Jack White's lane or not? Really? Oh? Absolutely, 762 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: and and and again, not only is it a two 763 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: person band, Not only is it a two person man 764 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: playing blues rock, it's like a two person band playing 765 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: blues rock that has like a color in their name, 766 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: and it's like a color that's like the opposite of 767 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: the White Stripes name, and instead of a stripe, it's 768 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: a key, Like it's kind of a similar construct there. 769 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think like earlier in their career, 770 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: like the Black Keys were definitely like a cult band 771 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: and they had a pretty good following. I saw them 772 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: on the Magic Potion tour and they were playing I 773 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: think in a room that housed like a thousand people, 774 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, So they were that level of band, not 775 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: hugely successful, but like doing pretty well, and then they 776 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: just made this, i think, very deliberate shift away from 777 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: that garage e type sound see more of like a 778 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,959 Speaker 1: glossy pop sound and partnering with Danger Mouse and making 779 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: records that could, you know, really work on radio. And 780 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: it's interesting because like this rivalry flares up when the 781 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: Black Keys make that pivot, and you could really argue 782 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: that at that point they were like the least like 783 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: the White Stripes that they ever were in their career, 784 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: like when they were putting out like Thick Freakness, like 785 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: that record or like the Big Come Up. The similarities 786 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: between what the White Stripes are doing and the Black Keys, 787 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: like it was very close, but like the White Stripeses 788 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: never really made a record like El Camino or like Brothers, 789 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, like those records are pretty different from anything 790 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: that Jack White was doing. So yeah, it's interesting that 791 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: ended up flaring up at that point. But yeah, I 792 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: think ultimately with these two again, I kind of go 793 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: back to this idea of like, for me, when I 794 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: looked at it when I was writing my book, it 795 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: just seemed like a perfect metaphor for like how men 796 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: relate to each other. That like, instead of looking at 797 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: what unites you to somebody, you know, your common ground, 798 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: it becomes this competitive thing. And I think even like 799 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: with with men who like each other, there's often a 800 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: combative element to their relationship, and it's about sort of 801 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 1: giving each other ship, you know, either with like sort 802 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: of like a like a verbal gamesmanship, or sometimes it 803 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: can actually be physical, like if you're playing a lot 804 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: of sports together or something, and it becomes like this 805 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: weird power dynamic. And I just wonder like if initially 806 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: Jack White kind of felt the need to assert his 807 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: dominance over these guys. I mean, it seems like that 808 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: was their dynamic for a long time, and then fortunately 809 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: they just got over it at some point and we're 810 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: able to to chill out. Yeah. I mean, I can't 811 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: imagine that Dan are Back would try to, you know, 812 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: puff himself up back. You know. I feel like Jack 813 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: White asserts his dominance. I feel like Dan would have 814 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: been like, yeah, you're Jack White. It's okay, we're not 815 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: we're I mean, I feel like even he knew they 816 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: weren't in the same league. Despite the Black Key's huge 817 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: commercial success, at that period, I feel like he realized 818 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: that there's a different strata. We're gonna take a quick 819 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: break and get a word from our sponsor before we 820 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: get two more rivals. Well, this is the part of 821 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: the episode where we talk about the pro side of 822 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: each side of the rivalry, and if you talk a 823 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: Jack White, I think that this is the case that 824 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: we've been making up throughout this episode. I don't think 825 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: there's any question that Jack White's greatest albums with the 826 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: White Stripes are some of the best rock music of 827 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: their time. And I wonder if, like younger people realize that, 828 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: because I feel like Jack white solo career has been 829 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: kind of weird and his images so strange now that 830 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: maybe people have like forgotten like how great the White 831 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: Stripes are. But I think overall, you know, if you 832 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: look at his stature and rock music, he really is, 833 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: like I think looked at is like one of the 834 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: great rock stars and like one of the only rock 835 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: stars that can kind of stand toe to toe with 836 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: like the greats of previous generation. So like, if you 837 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: look strictly at his output as a musician, I think 838 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: he really deserves his props. Oh yeah, I mean you 839 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: know a lot of people talk about his songwriting being 840 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: an incredible conceptualist, but I love his guitar. He's one 841 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: of my favorite guitarists of all time. His solo on 842 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: Black Math Alone is just one of my favorites ever. 843 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: And Dan are Back once said that of the time 844 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: guitar bores the ship out of him, and I just 845 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: can't imagine Jack White ever feeling that way. I just 846 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: think that's such an interesting distinction between the two. Like 847 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: he I mean, that's the opening scene of Might Get Loud. 848 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: He makes a guitar out of like what a coke 849 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: bottle on a piece of wood or something like. I 850 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 1: just love how he just wrestles sound out of reminds 851 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: me a Neil Young in that way too. He's not 852 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: a virtuoso at all, just sheer force of will. He 853 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: can wrestle sounds out of his instrument. I love it 854 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: so much. So if we go over to like the 855 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: Black Key Side, I think it's clear that, like in 856 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: this rivalry, that they didn't really do anything wrong. Like 857 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: Jack White, as we've said, like he was the antagonist 858 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: almost in every instance, Like he was the one who 859 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: again felt threatened. I think by the Black Keys for 860 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: some reason and felt the need again, like as I 861 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: said before, like I think he really felt like he 862 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: had to assert his dominance in some way, which you know, 863 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: speaks to some level of like weird insecurity mixed with 864 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: like just meglomania you know on his part, which is 865 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: a very rock star type combination to have. But you know, 866 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't think this food would have existed really if 867 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: Jack White hadn't been slagging the Black Keys in the 868 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: press so many times, or you know, attempting to fight 869 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: them in recording studios or in you know, bars, all 870 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: these different places. So you know, it's clearly like not 871 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: their fault that any of this happened, you know, unless 872 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: you count, of course, being a band that's not as 873 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: good as the White Stripes. Like that is I guess 874 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: their their crime, if you want to call it that 875 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 1: in this ravelry, that they were the band that came 876 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: in the White Stripes wake that did something similar to them. 877 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: That I think is like I think they're a really 878 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: good band in their own right, but like, are they 879 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: as good as the White Stripes, No, I don't think so. 880 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: But again, they're good rock band and they've they've made 881 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: good rock records, So you know, I think that's the 882 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: case that you make for the Black Keys. They also 883 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: seem so much more chill than Jack White too. Like 884 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: Jack White takes so many stands about like musical purity 885 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: and not using you know, electronic recording techniques, and he 886 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: seems to just make his life a living hell by 887 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: recording with like tape and razors, all these old timey things. 888 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: But there's something arguably to me more pure about the 889 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: Black Keys just being like dudes who want to rock 890 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: in a basement, like like, by by not taking all 891 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: those stands for authenticity impurity, it somehow seems even more 892 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: authentic and pure, and it's something I really appreciate them. 893 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: Like a lot of their albums sounds more emotionally vacant 894 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 1: to me in a lot of ways to like when 895 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: I play them, and I like them, But a lot 896 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: of the songs to be running together, especially the like 897 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: term Blue Era and the latest album What's Rock, I 898 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: really didn't like too much. But I don't know, I 899 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 1: just appreciate how that they seem to be trying less 900 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: hard and that's endearing. Yeah, I mean, I think what's 901 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: generally true is that like the best White Stripes albums 902 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: like reach down deeper and hit harder and last longer 903 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 1: than like the Black Keys records. I think the Black 904 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: Keys again, like they're just like a good time rock 905 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: band and like if you're having a barbecue, you can 906 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: put on the Black Keys record you can have a 907 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: good time. But I think like the White Stripes, it's 908 00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: like their best records, it's like, oh, this is like 909 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones of Our Time are like the Leads 910 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: up One of our Time, Like it has that kind 911 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: of vibe to it and and that ultimately I think 912 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: defines a difference between these two bands. But like when 913 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: you look at them together, I think for all their 914 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: similarities and all the superficial you know, things that you 915 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,280 Speaker 1: can point out that are the same between these two groups, 916 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: they're actually like pretty different. And I think that like 917 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: for me, like I like both bands and I appreciate 918 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: them for different reasons. Um Again, I think the White 919 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 1: Stripes are like they have kind of like an art 920 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: rock element to what they're doing, even though it's such 921 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,760 Speaker 1: a primal kind of music. Um. I think Jack White 922 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: has a conceptual element, in an intellectual element that he 923 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: brings to the band that isn't there in the Black Keys, 924 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: like you said, like they are more of just like 925 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: good time, jo gole, drink some beer, have a good 926 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: time and you know, rock the night away. And I 927 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: think both of those kinds of music have their place, 928 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: and it kind of shows like you can do a 929 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: lot with a two person format. You know, it's just 930 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: because you have two people in your band and you 931 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 1: might be playing somewhat kind of music. That's really what 932 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: the similarity stops. And then you have your own personality 933 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,280 Speaker 1: after that. Yeah, totally. I was at the White Stripes 934 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: had more of like a punk side to it, and 935 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: like you said, it made me feel so much more 936 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: than the Black Keys, which just just straight ahead, four 937 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: on the floor blues kind of stuff. And yeah, I 938 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: agree that they exist in very different places and planes 939 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: to me, and I like them both. Well, it looks 940 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: like this revelry is over. It was fun for a while. 941 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: We had some good confrontations in recording studios and in 942 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 1: bars and Karen Nelson's emails and Rolling Stone interviews. But 943 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 1: it seems like a seven nation army has held both 944 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,359 Speaker 1: of these sides back, if you will, and now they're 945 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: at peace. So I guess we should be at Peace 946 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: two at the end of this episode of Rivals, so 947 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,439 Speaker 1: thank you all for listening, and we will be back 948 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: with more feuds and beefs and long simmering resentments next week. 949 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of My Heart Radio. The executive 950 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: producers are Shawn Tytone and Noel Brown. Supervi as in 951 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: producers are Taylor Chicogne and Tristan McNeil. The producer is 952 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: Joel hat Stat. I'm Jordan's run Tug. I'm Stephen Hyden. 953 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave 954 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcast for My Heart Radio, 955 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,240 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 956 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H