1 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness. 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: Bolly that was walking that door, scanting up on this 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 2: table and say what she said? 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 3: We got a full table. 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 4: Now we got all the evidence we. 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: Need this Alison, would you tell us about the information 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: that you. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 5: Have for us? 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 6: Yes, my door to use her three way to call 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 6: for his homeboy, and he named the name is to 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 6: Borrow Johnson. 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 3: We had a weak case. 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 7: It's based on testimony in one witness. 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 4: The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 4: witness who had never heard him speak before, who had 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 4: no idea who he was. 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 5: This case is all about alternative worlds that are in 18 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 5: conflict with each other and in conflict with truth, and 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 5: in conflict with what our justice system stands for. 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 4: We forget sometime that there was a third person on 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 4: that phone who told him to discredits what this lady says. 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 4: She heard you know what I mean? And now how close, 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 4: how much closer can you get than that? 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on 25 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: the call over you who actually had. 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: On the call. 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 4: I don't understand. 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: I never understood that. 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 4: You know, the victim's family deserve to know what happened 30 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 4: to their loved one. But they get no justice, no 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 4: peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know, And this 32 00:01:45,760 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 4: is simply a case of does anybody all do do. 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: You remember the first time you met him? At Ty 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: Alper was just starting out his legal career at the 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: Southern Center for Human Rights when he met to Forest Johnson. 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: To Forest was one of the first people on death 37 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: row that Ty'd been assigned to represent. In January of 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and three, ty gets into one of the 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: old Volvos that the Southern Center had in their parking 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: lot in Atlanta and drives four hours south to Holman 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: Prison and at Moore, Alabama. 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: The first time I met him was down at Holman. 43 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: I was by myself and well, I was going to 44 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: go down and make sure that he was okay with 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: us representing him and to sort of tell him where 46 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: his case was. 47 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Tye is twenty nine years old, and here's what he knows. 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: To Forest Johnson is just eight months old than he is, 49 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: and he's been on death row for over four years 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: for a crime he says he did not commit. When 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: ty finally gets inside the prison, he's taken to a 52 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: room called the visiting yard, but it isn't a yard 53 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: at all. It looks like a middle school cafeteria surrounded 54 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: by plexiglass. Outside the plexiglass, correctional officers and men in 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: prison uniforms, white slacks, white shirt with Alabama Department of 56 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: Corrections stamped on the back are walking by. Inside, there's 57 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: no ac and the sad attempt of cooling the room 58 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: is left to metal fans that hang in the corners 59 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: to forrest sits at a table in a plastic chair 60 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: across from Tye. Ty tries to talk quietly so he 61 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: doesn't disturb other lawyers working with their clients on the yard, 62 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: but loud enough to be heard over the roar of 63 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: the fans. 64 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: And I remember saying to him, you know, mister Johnson, 65 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: I want you to know we're at the very early 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: stages of your appeals. There's many rounds of appeals to go. 67 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: We're going to file a petition in the US Supreme Court. 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: Then we're going to go back into state court. If 69 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: we lose there, we're going to go back into federal court, 70 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: and all this could take many years. And he just 71 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: started crying, and I assumed that he was upset because 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: I knew that he had claimed that he was claiming 73 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: he was innocent, and I assumed that he was upset 74 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: that this was going to take so long, and I 75 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: asked him what was wrong, and he said that he 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: was so happy because he had just assumed that they 77 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: could come any minute and take him to be executed. 78 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: And it was just the thing that struck me the most, 79 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: because not only had he been screwed over in pretty 80 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: much every possible way you can be, but nobody was 81 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 2: telling anything about what was going on in this case. 82 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: But to Forrest's days without a lawyer to fight for 83 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: him are over. It's now up to Tie and the 84 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: team of lawyers at the Southern Center to do what 85 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: no one has done before, thoroughly investigate to Forrest's conviction, 86 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: a conviction that hinged on the word and credibility of 87 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: a single witness, Violet Ellison. 88 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 8: Do you he my may. 89 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 7: Love, hads may. 90 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 4: Sorrowstp re lit. 91 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 7: In this b. 92 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 6: Both tears. 93 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 4: I want to see. 94 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: Revelation. 95 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: I want to know who you are. 96 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 3: I'm reation. 97 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 8: In thisspiration to the word Who's holding stands? 98 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 9: To the. 99 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 6: Who's holding the stand? 100 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter six misfiled. 101 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: After ty leaves Holman prison, he and the rest of 102 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: Taforest's new legal team go through the case. They need 103 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: to understand how their new client ended up on death row. 104 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: They hear about to Forest's alibi that he was at 105 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: Tea's place when Deputy Hardy was shot. They learn about 106 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers changing stories. They read how the state presented 107 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: conflicting theories at different trials. Now it's clear to the 108 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: legal team to Forest Johnson did not kill Deputy Hardy. 109 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: The state's case completely revolved around Violet Ellison's testimony, so. 110 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: We knew that that was a potentially fruitful area to 111 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: investigate because she was the state's whole case. 112 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: They need to figure out whether they can challenge Violet 113 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Ellison's testimony. If they can show that it wasn't reliable, 114 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: they can argue that to Forrest deserves a new trial. 115 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: So they need to know why did Violet Ellison come 116 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: forward in the first place. Prosecutor Jeff Wallace told two 117 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: juries that Violet was a credible witness, someone who overheard 118 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson admit to the crime, and she came 119 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: forward because it was the right thing to do. But 120 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: there were other reasons Violet Ellison might have come forward. 121 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: We knew the reward was offered because it was all 122 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: over the papers, but we didn't know who got it, 123 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: or if Violet Elison got it. 124 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: The reward was not a secret. It was mentioned in 125 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: press releases and reported on TV news. 126 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: So the next step was okay. Well, were there questions 127 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: about her credibility that the juris already never heard, And 128 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: an obvious one was what was she paid for her testimony? 129 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: If Violet Ellison knew about the reward money before trial, 130 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: or even if she had qualified for the reward, the 131 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: jury should have been told this when they heard her testimony. 132 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: The legal issues here get complicated fast, but it's important 133 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: to understand that the prosecution must turn over anything that 134 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: would be helpful to the defense. It can be a 135 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: lead on another suspect, or some forensic report that casts 136 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: doubt on a piece of evidence, or information that calls 137 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: the credibility of a state's witness into question. This is 138 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: called Brady information, after a famous US Supreme Court case 139 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: called Brady v. Maryland. And if a court finds out 140 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: later that prosecutors failed to turn over Brady information, that's 141 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: a constitutional violation and the court will order a new trial. 142 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: So if prosecutors knew that Violet Ellison came forward looking 143 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: for the reward, they should have told to Forest trial 144 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: lawyers about it, and then they could have brought it 145 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: up at trial. They could have told the jury when 146 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 1: you go back and deliberate about Violet Ellison's testimony, Remember 147 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: there's a reward being offered and she wants that reward. 148 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: Are you sure money isn't part of the equation here? 149 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: But the jury never heard anything about the reward. 150 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 3: She was very credible. 151 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Monique Hick was on the jury into Forrest's second trial 152 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: and she voted to convict to Forest based on Violet 153 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: Ellison's testimony. 154 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: She just seemed very truthful, like she had nothing to 155 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: gain by coming forward. She had heard this information and 156 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 3: she felt like I have to share this. She was 157 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 3: a very credible witness compared to some of the others 158 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: that took the sandlight. We believed her, obviously, we believed 159 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: her because we convicted him and it was on her testimony. 160 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: Overturning a conviction is damn near impossible. Our system prioritizes 161 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: finality in part because a jury's verdict is considered a 162 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: community statement and given great weight. So for to Forrest 163 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: to get a new trial, his lawyers needed to prove 164 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: two things that Violet Ellison came forward with her story 165 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: in the hopes of getting the reward, and that police 166 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: and prosecutors were aware of this true motive. There's one 167 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: big problem. If Violet Ellison had been paid, documentation of 168 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: the payment should have been into Forrest's case file, but 169 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: there wasn't anything there. Still, Tye and the other attorneys 170 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: had a hunch that Violet Ellison got the money. The 171 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: legal team tried calling everywhere they could, the Sheriff's office, 172 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: the Governor's office, the Record's division. What should have been 173 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: just a simple phone call turned into a multi week endeavor. Finally, 174 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: someone at the Governor's office said they might have something 175 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: and would send over a fax. 176 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: I do remember us all hovering around the facts machine 177 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: waiting to see what it was, because it was the 178 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: first time that anyone had acknowledged that there might be 179 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: something that was helpful. 180 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: The fax machine spits out a piece of paper signed 181 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: by Judge Alfred Bayhackle, the man who presided over to 182 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: Forrest's trials and sentenced him to death. The paper authorized 183 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison to receive five thousand dollars in reward money 184 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: in exchange for her testimony that led to the conviction 185 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: of to Forest Johnson. 186 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: That was when we knew, okay, she did know about 187 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 2: this reward. She was motivated by the reward when she testified, 188 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: and the judge knew about it in an order that 189 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: was not included in the court file. 190 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: For to Forest's legal team. This was a huge first step. 191 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: The language in the court order said that Violet Ellison 192 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: came forward pursuant to the public offer of a reward. 193 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: And again, this authorization document was signed by the judge. 194 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: It's an official court document. It should have been into 195 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: Forrest's court file right there where everyone could see it, 196 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: but it wasn't. Instead, to Forest's legal team had to 197 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: go on a bureaucratic goose chase to find it was 198 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: someone trying to hide something. What other documents were missing 199 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: from the public file. So a young investigator working with 200 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: the Forest's legal team named Jason Marx went right to 201 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: the source. He walked up to Violet Ellison's house, holding 202 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: Judge Bahackle's court order that authorized her payment in one 203 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: hand and knocked on her front door with the other. 204 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 9: When I showed up at her house, he said something 205 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 9: about the phone calls, and I said, oh, I'm not 206 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 9: here to talk to you about the phone calls. I'm 207 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 9: here to talk about the reward that you got. And 208 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 9: that's when she said I didn't get a reward. I 209 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 9: was like, oh, well, that's funny. I was like, I 210 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 9: have some paperwork here that says you got a reward, 211 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 9: and so basically yeah. So basically confronted her with the document, 212 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 9: she said, oh, yeah, I did get a reward, got 213 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 9: five thousand dollars. 214 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: After initially denying it, Violet Ellison told Jason the state 215 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: paid her five thousand dollars for testifying against to Forrest Johnson. 216 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: We knew when we got the judge's order that he 217 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: had authorized the payment, and then she told us that 218 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: she got paid, so we knew it all. When you 219 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: take a step back, he's on death row because the 220 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: jury believed a woman who they didn't know is being 221 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: paid for her testimony, and that should cause real concerns 222 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: and questions about the validity of the conviction. 223 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: To Forest's legal team files a Brady claim against the 224 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: state that argues the jury into Forest's trial should have 225 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: heard about the reward, Violet Ellison knew about the reward 226 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: when she came forward, and that the state suppressed the 227 00:15:54,680 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: information on purpose. The state denies everything. They deny any 228 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: Brady violation, and they deny all of the allegations into 229 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: Forest's petition, including that Violet Ellison was motivated by the 230 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: reward and that she was paid five thousand dollars. But 231 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: to Forest's legal team has evidence to the contrary, the 232 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: court order that was faxed to them and Violet Ellison herself. 233 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: After the state submits a written denial of all of 234 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: the charges brought by to Forest's legal team, the case 235 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: heads to court, but Alabama courts won't hear the case. 236 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: They say the reward doesn't qualify as Brady, so the 237 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: appeal takes years to make its way through the courts. 238 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: When to Forest and Ty first met, to Forrest's five 239 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: kids were all under the age of ten, and as 240 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: the Braak claim crawls through the legal system, seventeen years 241 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: go by, to Forrest's oldest daughter has graduated college and 242 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: his four other kids are having kids of their own. Finally, 243 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: to Forest's legal team gets the case in front of 244 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: the United States Supreme Court. The justices tell the Alabama 245 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: courts that they're wrong for not reviewing to Forrest Brady claim. 246 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: The State of Alabama must hear the evidence about the reward. 247 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: Ahead of the hearing, Judge Teresa Pulliam gives the state 248 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: very clear orders. 249 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: You have to turn over everything, everything that you have 250 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: that concerns a reward payment. You have to turn it 251 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: over to mister Johnson's lawyers. 252 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: So the state gives to Forest's legal team what they 253 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: say are all of the documents about to Forest's case. 254 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: An attorney representing the state tells Judge Pulliam the files 255 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: contained nothing about anyone applying for a reward or being 256 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: granted a reward. 257 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: I think it was eight or nine banker's boxes of documents, 258 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: and we went through every single page looking for any 259 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: mention of a reward payment about Elson, and there was 260 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: nothing in there. 261 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: But then to Forest's legal team gets a tip from 262 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: an insider. The woman who served as office manager at 263 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: the Jefferson County District Attorney's office went to Forest was 264 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: on trial. 265 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: So she told us that if we were only looking 266 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 2: in the case file, we weren't looking everywhere. That the 267 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: documentation might be because they also had a reward file 268 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: that they kept separate from the case files that would 269 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 2: include paperwork and documentation of witnesses who had sought rewards 270 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: and or been paid rewards. 271 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: Reward information in the DA's office, according to this source, 272 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: was kept in a separate confidential file away from prosecutors 273 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: involved in trials like Jeff Wallace. This meant he couldn't 274 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: turn it over to to Forest lawyers because he didn't 275 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: know about it. To to Forest's attorneys, this meant the 276 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: information about the reward was kept from them intentionally suppressed. 277 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: The judge orders the DA's office to turn over this 278 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: separate confidential file. 279 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 2: We got an email that said, we found these documents. 280 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: They had been misfiled, and here they are. 281 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: Here they are. After seventeen years, the state finally turned 282 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: over every document to Forest lawyers had asked for the 283 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: hidden treasure trove. An application for the reward that's signed 284 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: by Violet Ellison, a copy of the actual check for 285 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars made out to Violet Ellison, an email 286 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: exchange between District Attorney David Barber and the Governor's office 287 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: about how to pay the reward. And a letter from 288 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: DA Barber asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison the money, 289 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: saying that she came forward pursuant to the offer of 290 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: a reward. If this hidden information about the reward kept 291 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: away from to Forest lawyers for seventeen years doesn't count 292 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: as prosecutorial misconduct as a Brady violation, what does? But 293 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: according to the state, all of these documents were simply misfunnild. 294 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: When I hear misfiled, I imagine someone accidentally putting a document 295 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: into the wrong folder, or maybe a paper falling behind 296 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: a cabinet. But that's not what happened. It sounds like 297 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: they had it organized in a file they kept explicitly 298 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: for rewards, a file that no one seemed to know 299 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: about except the office manager and the DA himself, David Barber, 300 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: who headed the prosecutor's office. How is this acceptable? 301 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 3: Hello? 302 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: Yes, I was calling for David Barber speaking mister Barber. 303 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: My name is Beth Shelburne. I called David Barber, who's 304 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: now retired after serving as Jefferson County's top prosecutor for 305 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: twenty four years. He was DA when to Forest was 306 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: tried for capital murder and personally involved in the reward issue. 307 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: He wrote the letter asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison. 308 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: The defense team for mister Johnson didn't have any records 309 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: about the reward until twenty nineteen. The Attorney General's office 310 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: produced the records and said they had been misfiled. Okay, 311 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: does that sound strange to you or do you have 312 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: any idea how that could. 313 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 3: Have happened. 314 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 8: The AG's office. If they said he got misfiled, then 315 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 8: I guess he got misfiled. Human error. 316 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 9: I guess. 317 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think. 318 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 8: I guess people. I mean, things happen. You have people 319 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 8: working in agencies, DA's offices, AG's office's, Governor's office, things 320 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 8: getting misfiled, And I mean it happened. 321 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: It happens. Actually, it did happen at least one other 322 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: time on Barber's watch. In two thousand and four, a 323 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: man named Montez Spradley was sentenced to death for murder 324 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: based on the testimony of one witness, just like to 325 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: Forrest Johnson. Eventually, Spradley's lawyers discovered the star witness was 326 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: paid ten thousand dollars for her testimony, but police and 327 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: prosecutors never disclosed the reward payment because the reward documents 328 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: were kept in this same separate file as Violet Ellison's 329 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: reward payment. The judge in that case also didn't disclose 330 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: information about the reward. The judge was Gloria Bahackle, the 331 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: sister of Alfred Bahackle, the judge into Forests trial. 332 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 6: Hello. 333 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: Hey, my name is Beth Sholburn. I was wondering if 334 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: mister Alfred ba Hackle is here. My producer Mara, and 335 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: I went to Judge Alfred bay Hackle's house hoping to 336 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: talk to him about these off the record payment authorizations, 337 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: but he told us that he wasn't interested in commenting 338 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: on any specific cases or his time as a judge. 339 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 8: I've talked to you. 340 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: It's about a murder case and several of the trials here. 341 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: I can't talk about, okay. 342 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Montes Bradley was able to prove his innocence and was 343 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: released from prison in twenty fifteen to Forrest and his 344 00:24:51,359 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: attorneys hope for this same outcome. I first heard about 345 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: to Forest Johnson's case in twenty nineteen when the Brady 346 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: hearing was scheduled. I was assigned to cover the hearing 347 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: for WBrC The News station where I used to work. 348 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: This hearing would determine whether Violet Ellison's secret reward payment 349 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: amounted to prosecutorial misconduct. I didn't know much about to 350 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: Force case back then, only that he was on death 351 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: row for a crime that he said he didn't commit 352 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: and was convicted on the testimony of an ear witness 353 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: who was paid off the record. In preparation for the hearing, 354 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: I met with Taforest's cousin Antonio Green, and other family 355 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: members at their uncle's house. They all said to Forrest 356 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: was optimistic about the hearing, and he. 357 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 4: Tells me, he says all the time, well, you know, 358 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 4: cause I know I didn't do this, so one day 359 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 4: it'll all come out. 360 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 3: Old. 361 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. On the day of the hearing, I only took 362 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: a pen and notebook into Judge Pulliam's courtroom because she 363 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: doesn't allow recording. I sat next to to Forest's mother, Donna, 364 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: in a middle row, and I spotted to Forrest sitting 365 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: at the defense table with his attorneys. This was the 366 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: first and only time I've ever seen to Forrest Johnson 367 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: in person. He was wearing an orange and white striped 368 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: jail jumpsuit and was in handcuffs and leg irons. At 369 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: one point, he turned and smiled at his family, and 370 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: I heard his mom next to me say softly, hey baby. 371 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: The courtroom was packed, and much of the crowd was 372 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: to Forrest's family and friends, but I also saw Jefferson 373 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: County's newly elected district attorney seated in the first row, 374 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: Danny Carr. He's the first black man to be elected 375 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: top prosecutor in Jefferson County. A month before this hearing, 376 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: a group of faith leaders who knew about to Forest 377 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: case published an open letter to Carr asking him to 378 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: push for a new trial, but at this point Carr 379 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: had not commented publicly on the case. The hearing starts 380 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,719 Speaker 1: at nine am to Forrest's attorneys present all of the 381 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: documents that took the state seventeen years to turn over. 382 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: They argue that the documents showed so the state suppressed 383 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: evidence that Violet Ellison initially contacted police in pursuit of 384 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: the reward money, and then the state hid that she 385 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: was eventually paid five thousand dollars. Just after ten am, 386 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: the state calls only one witness to testify, Violet Ellison. 387 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: She's seventy seven years old and walks to the stand 388 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: using a cane. She has short white hair and is 389 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: dressed in a white blazer and black pants. After she's 390 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: sworn in, Violet Ellison says that she knew the victim 391 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: and followed the details about the murder and investigation by 392 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: watching the news and reading the newspaper. But despite all that, 393 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: and despite the fact that information about the reward was 394 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: all over the news, she is vehement that she didn't 395 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: know about the reward. She testifies that the first time 396 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: she heard about the reward was after to Forrest was 397 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: sentenced to death in July of two thousand and one, 398 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: three years after he was convicted. She says that's when 399 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: someone from the DA's office contacted her and asked her 400 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: to come in and sign papers for the reward money. 401 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: At the end of this five hour hearing, Judge Pulliam 402 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: says she's not going to make a decision that day. 403 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: She'll consider all of the evidence and then issue her 404 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: ruling to Forrest's mother. Donna, sitting next to me, bursts 405 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: into tears. After the hearing, I was going over my 406 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: notes and noticed a big discrepancy between the state's story 407 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: and Violet Ellison's testimony about what triggered the reward three 408 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: years after to Forrest was convicted. In opening statements, the 409 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: state lawyer said that Violet Ellison asked the DA's office 410 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: about the reward, but on the stand, Violet said it 411 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: was the other way around that they contacted her. This 412 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: might seem like a minor detail, but knowing what triggered 413 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: the reward payment is key in determining whether or not 414 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: this is a Brady violation. Who called who first? How 415 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: did this payment come about? So I emailed the Attorney 416 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: General's office for some clarity, and they directly contradicted Violet 417 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: Ellison's testimony again, writing three years after the trial, Ellison 418 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: requested the cash reward that had been offered by the governor, 419 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: and since then Alabama's Attorney General completely reversed the state's narrative. 420 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: The AG's office now claims that the prosecutor asked for 421 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: the reward to be paid unbeknownst to Violet Ellison. But 422 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: former DA David Barber told me he wouldn't do that, 423 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: that rewards were triggered by law enforcement or a witness 424 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: themselves applying for a reward, and Prosecutor Jeff Wallace said 425 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with rewards. Everyone I asked 426 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: gave a different answer, pointing the finger in a different direction. 427 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to own up to triggering the payment. The 428 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: state continuously changing its story on this important detail isn't 429 00:31:49,360 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: just sloppy, it's incredibly suspicious. It takes nine months for 430 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: Judge Pulliam to issue her decision. She writes that she 431 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: found Violet Ellison to be confident, describing her as well 432 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: dressed and well spoken, and that her articulate testimony outweighed 433 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: the evidence presented by to Forrest Johnson's attorneys. Pulliam says 434 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: the documents don't prove that Violet Ellison knew about the 435 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: money when she testified, and don't amount to misconduct by 436 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: the state. She doesn't address the fact that it took 437 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: the state seventeen years to admit they had paid Violet Ellison. 438 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 2: Really, what she was doing was validating the credibility of 439 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 2: Violet Ellison, saying I didn't know that there was even 440 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: a reward offered in the case, which is impossible to believe, 441 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 2: and then validating her testimony that three years after the trial, 442 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: not having known that there is even a reward offered 443 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: in the case, the DA's office out of the blue 444 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: called her up one day and said, Hey, remember that 445 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: case you testified in. We have five thousand dollars of 446 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: the state's money that we'd like to give you for that. 447 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: Do you want to come down and get it? And 448 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: she said sure and came down and got it, which 449 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: is also impossible to believe. 450 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: To Forrest's legal team appeals the decision, and in April 451 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, I attend oral arguments in front 452 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: of the State Court of Criminal Appeals. I notice all 453 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: five judges on the court are white. In fact, everyone 454 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: in the courtroom is white. The disconnect is striking to 455 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: Forest Johnson. Isn't here All these white people are discussing 456 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: the fate of a black man who is locked away 457 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: on death row, completely absent from this process. This dynamic 458 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: isn't unique to this hearing. Black people make up twenty 459 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: seven percent of Alabama's overall population, but fifty four percent 460 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: of the state prison population. There are no black appellate 461 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: judges and only three of the forty two elected das 462 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: and Alabama are black. This lack of representation means it's 463 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: almost always white people making policy and punishment decisions that 464 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: impact a disproportionate poor and black population. To Forest hearing 465 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 1: in the Court of Criminal Appeals lasts just forty nine minutes. 466 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: It's another tony. 467 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: At the end of the trial, once the verdict was 468 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 3: read and everything was done, the jury was finished with 469 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: their job, and I remember the judge saying that to 470 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 3: Forrest would be sentenced at another date. 471 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: Monique Kicks again, who served on the jury into Forrest's 472 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: second trial. Monique wanted to talk with me after she 473 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: saw a news story about Violet Ellison and the reward payment, 474 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: so I made the hour long drive to her house 475 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: to speak to her in person. Monique was twenty seven 476 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: years old when she voted for to Forrest's guilt and 477 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: a death sentence. As soon as that was over, security 478 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: quickly ushered the jury out the back door of the 479 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: courthouse to the parking deck. She never found out if 480 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: the judge agreed that to Forrest should be put to 481 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: death or spend life in prison. 482 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 3: I never heard anything, didn't see it in the news, 483 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 3: may have dismissed it that night. The internet wasn't a thing. 484 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 3: I couldn't look it up, google it, so I honestly 485 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,240 Speaker 3: never knew ultimately what happened to mister Johnson. 486 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: Twenty years later, Monique gets a book recommendation from a friend. 487 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: The Sun Does Shine, a memoir by Anthony ray Hinton, 488 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: a black man from Birmingham who was sent to death 489 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: row in nineteen eighty five despite a solid alibi and 490 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: no eyewitnesses tying him to the murder. He was exonerated 491 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: thirty years later. 492 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 3: And so I was reading the book. And as I'm 493 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 3: reading the book, I'm like, oh, wow, this was set 494 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 3: in Birmingham in the eighties. I was like, I was 495 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 3: on a jury in the nineties in Jefferson County in Birmingham. 496 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 3: That's interesting. By the time I got to the end 497 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 3: of the book, I remember I looked at my husband 498 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 3: and I said, oh, my goodness, I think we convicted 499 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 3: an innocent man. Because I was like, there's no way 500 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 3: ten years later that the injustices and the corruption that 501 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 3: were going on in the system had cleaned themselves up. 502 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 3: About two weeks later, I'm sitting on my sofa and 503 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 3: I opened up my local news app to just read 504 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 3: the headlines to Forrest Johnson has been claiming innocence for 505 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 3: over twenty years on death row. Something to that effect. 506 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 3: And I opened up the article and started reading, and 507 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 3: I just started sobbing, like uncontrollable, because I was like, oh, 508 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 3: my goodness, we did commit to an innocent man and 509 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 3: he's been on death row all these years and I 510 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: didn't know it. 511 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't until twenty nineteen, more than two decades after 512 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: she voted to convict to Forrest Johnson, that Monique learned 513 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: that the state's key witness, Violet Ellison, was paid in 514 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: secret for her testimony. 515 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 3: You know, the star witness was paid, and the defense 516 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 3: didn't know it. The jurors didn't know it. So yeah, 517 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 3: I was shocked. And then I was like, well, how 518 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 3: shocked were to Forrest and his family when we accused 519 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 3: him of being guilty? So I just can't imagine what 520 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 3: that was like to them. Another blow. 521 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: At the time of the trial, Monique found Violet Ellison 522 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: to be composed and confident. Do you think that your 523 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: impression of her would have been different had you known 524 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: she was being paid five thousand dollars. 525 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:08,720 Speaker 3: I definitely believe we would have as a jury talked 526 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 3: about that, like how credible is this testimony? She's being 527 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: paid for it? Yes, I do think that would have 528 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 3: there would have been conversations about it, and I do 529 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 3: believe it would have changed out could have changed outcome. 530 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: I really felt like the jury was used in this 531 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 3: big game of injustice. We were just just like, here's 532 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 3: some theories. We're just gonna keep throwing them out until 533 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 3: we can get a group of people together to believe it. 534 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 3: And I just feel like we were being used in 535 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 3: this game. They needed a conviction. It was a high 536 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 3: profile case, you know, it was a sheriff's deputy. Somebody 537 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: needed to pay for it. And to me, it just 538 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 3: seems like we're just gonna throw these things out, gather 539 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 3: people together until we get some that believe it, and 540 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 3: unfortunately I was in the group that believed it. 541 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: Monique is one of three jurors that I've interviewed. All 542 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: three regret voting to convict to Forrest Johnson. None of 543 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: them could quite put their finger on why they were 544 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: convinced of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, other than 545 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: believing Violet Ellison. Once they learned she was paid for 546 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: her testimony, it was like to Forrest suddenly became real 547 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: to them. The weight of their decision was crushing. But 548 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: besides speaking out about their regret. There's nothing they can do. 549 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: They can't take back their votes. They have to live 550 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: with their decision. 551 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 3: Felt a lot of grief, Shane guilt for having been 552 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 3: a part of this. I'm pretty even kill person. I'm 553 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 3: not a cry or you know how some people cry 554 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 3: about anything. That's not my go to a big crier, 555 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 3: But anytime the subject comes up, it is like grief 556 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 3: deep in my soul and I just get very emotional. 557 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: I felt like I needed to talk to the person 558 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: at the center of the case outside of courtrooms and legalies. 559 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear from Violet Ellison. She has a 560 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: small brick house on a busy street in Birmingham. When 561 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: I go there, the main front door is open, and 562 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: as I walk closer, I can see Violet Ellison sitting 563 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: inside wearing a robe. She stands up and turns to 564 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: face me. Hey are you miss Violet Ellison? Miss Ellison, 565 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: my name is Beth. I'm a journalist and I was 566 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: hoping to talk to you about the Deputy Hardy murder 567 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: that you are a witness in. Eventually she steps out 568 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: onto the porch where we continue the conversation, and I feel. 569 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 3: Like I'm just being a really cute for telling you 570 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 3: the truth? 571 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, and I do. I don't like you. 572 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: Well, I just wanted to ask you about the issue 573 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 1: of the reward, since that what is That's what I mean. 574 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: I talked to Violet Ellison for twenty minutes and she 575 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: tells me no less than a dozen times that she 576 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 1: did not know about the reward when she came forward 577 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 1: to talk to police, and that she did not know 578 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: about it when she testified against to Forrest at two trials. 579 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: Do you think about the fact that he's on death 580 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: row though? I mean, I know you said you don't 581 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: really to support the death penalty. 582 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, well I did at first, you know, in trouble 583 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 7: my spirit, and as time went by, you try to 584 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 7: forget the bad things that you know happened. 585 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: But it's a little surreal for me to be face 586 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: to face with Violet Ellison, this woman who's the lynchpin 587 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: of the entire case against to Forest. As we say goodbye, 588 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: she delivers the most ironic thank you I've ever received, 589 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:53,240 Speaker 1: telling me she appreciates me talking to her directly instead 590 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: of relying on someone else's characterization of what she said. 591 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 6: Nobody has come to me like you to see how 592 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 6: I feel about it, And they just reported on what 593 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,800 Speaker 6: somebody say hearsay, and I don't like that now because 594 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 6: you'll never get the truth like that. 595 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a man on death row because the 596 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: jurors believed Violet Ellison. Now we know what the jury 597 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: didn't know at trial, that she was paid for her testimony, 598 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: and that the state hid this information. They told the 599 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: jury that Violet Ellison was credible and believable, and they 600 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: still say that, but they weren't truthful about the reward. 601 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: So why should we believe how they characterize their key witness. 602 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 10: I hate to see it. I know that's my grandmother. 603 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 10: That's a true scam audital in a way she can 604 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 10: get a dollar. I'm telling you she ain't that type. 605 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 10: It's just gonna help to my just to help them. 606 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,879 Speaker 10: It gotta have money, It gotta have money as long. 607 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: Wow, that's next time. Ear Witness is a production of 608 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company. Number One. 609 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and 610 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was 611 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: done by me and Maraa McNamara. Producers are Maraa McNamara, 612 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: Hannah Bial and Jackie Polly. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. 613 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,319 Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from 614 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan, and special 615 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can 616 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at 617 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from 618 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot com, slash ear 619 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: Witness