00:00:08 Speaker 1: But I invited you here. I thought I made myself perfectly clear. 00:00:17 Speaker 2: But you're a. 00:00:17 Speaker 1: Guest to my home. You gotta come to me empty, And I said, no guests, you're on presences presents enough. I already had too much stuff. 00:00:35 Speaker 2: So how do you dance to survey me? 00:00:47 Speaker 3: Welcome to? I said, no gift, si'n Richard wineger Ah, you're catching me just moments after, you know, setting up some sort of new device, audio device, computer things going on. So I'm at my most relaxed. I'm, you know, just feeling easy going and my heart rate is low. And I hope you're in a similarly peaceful place and so you can enjoy this podcast because I think you're going to have a great time with today's guest, who's just fantastic. It's Connor Ratliffe. Connor, Welcome to, I said, no gifts. 00:01:26 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm so I'm so glad to be here. 00:01:29 Speaker 3: How are you? 00:01:30 Speaker 2: I'm doing well, you know, on balance in these trying times. I'm holding it together. 00:01:37 Speaker 3: I feel like the last few weeks have been eventful for you. 00:01:40 Speaker 2: They've certainly they've been eventful for me. They've also been very eventful in the world at large. It feels like a very fraught time. 00:01:47 Speaker 3: Yes, strange days, very very strange years. Yes, and not ideal. 00:01:56 Speaker 2: But not ideal. I think that's so. That's such a perfect way of putting it. 00:02:01 Speaker 3: Not ideal, not my perfect, not things are not going exactly to my plan. And I don't think the same for anyone else. But I do feel like, look for you, Yes, you're meeting Tom Hanks, You're going, I believe on a cruise. You're doing. You know, you're having a at least an isolated, enjoyable time. 00:02:24 Speaker 2: I've been doing rather well personally in the past couple of weeks, but even that is somewhat overwhelming, you know, I right, you know it's my natural state is a little more relaxed, and when too many things are happening, even if they're good things, it's it's it can be an overloading of the of the senses. 00:02:46 Speaker 3: The system can only handle so much. Yeah, well let's start. I feel like you were recently on a cruise. 00:02:53 Speaker 2: Yes, I was a performer on the Joco Cruise, which is Jonathan Coleton's music and comedy nerd cruise. 00:03:00 Speaker 3: Right, And what you just said is maybe one percent more than what I know about this cruise. I knew that there was some nerd element. I know Jonathan Colton, and there was comedy, but I don't I still can't quite zero in on what this happens on this cruise. It's like comic Con. 00:03:18 Speaker 2: It's a little bit. Yeah, it's sort of like a it's like a corner of comic Con. It's even I joined the cruise midway through because by helicopter no. I flew to Saint Croix and boarded boarded the ship in the Virgin Islands because I was finishing. I couldn't do the full week because I had to finish putting together the Tom Hanks episode of my podcast. So it was happening at the most hectic possible time. So it was very disorienting to join a cruise midway through that, especially a cruise that has its own sort of culture that it's been going for years, and I've known about it and I've been eager to be a part of it in some way. But it was the kind of thing where you you know, you go to get breakfast and there'll be like a bunch of people dressed in costumes you don't understand and they will just be singing songs from Rocky Horror together in part of the and then you know there was there were themed days where there was a day when everyone on the ship would say happy Birthday to everyone else. You would just walk down and the like the ship's crew would be like happy Birthday, and everybody on the boat was playing along with it. So I'm I found it delightful while not fully understanding every aspect of it. There are a lot of inside jokes that have developed for people who've been going on this cruise for years, right, and it felt both welcoming and alien because I didn't even do the full week. I did a half a week on a on a cruise experience, and I've never been on a boat that big, So even if it had just been a regular cruise, I think I would have been a little bit disoren it. But I do find that I liked being on a boat. I wasn't sure whether I would have sea legs or whether I would be I had no seasickness at all. I liked the feeling of being on a thing that was on the ocean. 00:05:16 Speaker 3: No do get seasick in any situation, nauseous in any situation. 00:05:21 Speaker 2: Not particularly. I mean, I guess, you know, I don't know that I would handle roller coasters very well if I was doing those on a regular basis at this point, but I don't. I get dizzy every now and then, but I don't have a problem with, you know, a seasickness on land certainly. 00:05:39 Speaker 3: Right, I feel like I have kind of aged into nausea. I feel like, is there, like are your inner ear canals like deteriorating and so you're easily made more nauseous. I don't understand, because it's harder for me to go on, for example, like a roller coaster at this point. 00:05:56 Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor, so this is just a guess. But I makes total sense that over time, just what happens to us is that anything that could go wrong starts to go wrong potentially. I know that for me, very serious roller coasters. I didn't like them when I was a kid, and I had a brief window where I enjoyed them right, and then the last time I was on what I would say is a serious roller coaster, the type that's really trying to impress you with how it's thrilling it is, I had a fear that I was going to die like it. Just when I got off, I said, I will never go on a roller coaster like that again, because I had this mortal feeling while I was on it, and I thought, well, that's not fun. 00:06:42 Speaker 3: Which roller coaster was this. 00:06:44 Speaker 2: I think it was something called the TiSER Twister. I don't know if it exists anymore. It was, it was in England and it was sponsored by an energy drink. I think it was called Tyser. I think I'm remembering the name right. And it was just too ferocious. I just thought, this is a near death experience viscerally, and I, rather than feeling relieved at the end of it, like, oh, we you know, cheated death, I felt terrible because I felt like, well, it's a preview of the inevitable, Like I will feel like this in some form or another eventually. I don't need to I don't need to train for it. I'll just wait until it happens and I'll feel bad then. 00:07:26 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that makes sense. When you're young and death seems more like a fantasy, it's like a fun thing to toy with, but then as mortality creeps in, it now just feels like a sample and I get some. 00:07:38 Speaker 2: People might really like that. They might maybe maybe it's a really smart thing to sort of like numb yourself to the terror of it. But I just didn't care for it. 00:07:46 Speaker 3: Well, and to be fair to roller coasters, the one you wrote on seems like it was part of some sort of marketing ploy or you know, thrown up by you know, red. 00:07:55 Speaker 2: Noise or what. It was real stable like. It wasn't like a county fair type thing where you really thought they hadn't like it was. It was built to last. It was a very sturdy looking thing, so it wasn't It wasn't like I was worried about the craftsmanship. I felt like they knew what they are doing. I just didn't like the feeling that it really felt like, well, if not now eventually like that was the feeling. 00:08:23 Speaker 3: Was it in a theme park or where was this? 00:08:26 Speaker 2: I think it was in It was in like a a some sort of amusement park in England. I can't remember where it was exactly. 00:08:33 Speaker 3: Well, do you like to go to an amusement park? Roller coasters, assigne? 00:08:37 Speaker 2: I love it. I actually went to Disney World right after the cruise just because the people that I was on the cruise with were. One of them was a recently former. He became a former employee of the Disney Corporation and he had a few free passes, so he thought, you know what, We've just done a cruise for a week. We were very the cruise was very COVID safe, right, but it's still we are in that era of calculated risk taking, of course, where you're trying to be safe, but also it's like you're trying to live life. And we thought, you know, we're getting off the ship in Fort Lauderdale, let's just rent a car, mask up and go to the go to the Disney theme parks for a day and a half for free, and on his severance passes. It was fun. I like wandering around the theme parks. It was a little scary because the mass ratio in Florida is not ideal. 00:09:28 Speaker 3: Oh I can only imagine. 00:09:31 Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know what I'm going to be getting down there anytime soon. So we felt like we needed to seize the moment with our free passes. 00:09:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, a free took to Disney World. That's a ten thousand dollars value. You can't we have like we had to do it. 00:09:46 Speaker 2: We had to do it. 00:09:47 Speaker 3: So you went to Disney World for a day and a half, you've been on a cruise. You are just currently stumbling through my nightmare of life. It feels like a difficult vacation for me. 00:09:59 Speaker 2: It's certainly is disorienting to have basically two years of almost total isolation and inactivity, with a few brief respites from it every now and then, and to suddenly go just whole hog into what seems like a checklist of dangerous behaviors. But we were as safe we were. I came back. We all tested negative immediately upon coming back. We we did the smart version of things that are not considered wise to do. 00:10:32 Speaker 3: Right, But at this point it's like, if you're vaccinated, you just do what you can do, yeah, and you know. 00:10:39 Speaker 2: Be careful. We weren't. So it's hard to socially distance in a theme park because you get into the ride and you're strapped in. You can't ask can you please? Can you please keep people six feet away from me on this ride? But it also felt like we were all masked up. And then you know, most of the rides you wait for an hour and then you the ride lasts three minutes. 00:11:00 Speaker 3: Right, and a lot of those rides are outdoors. Yeah, the winds blasting past your face. Sure, I don't know. 00:11:07 Speaker 2: Yeah again, I'm no doctor. I'm know scientists. I don't know. 00:11:13 Speaker 3: What did you do on the cruise? I mean you performed? You ate breakfast? 00:11:18 Speaker 2: Did? Yeah? I did a couple of shows, watched some shows, like went to other performer shows. A lot of it was sort of, you know, walking around looking at the ocean. I'd never I've had a couple of experiences over the past few weeks that are things that you don't think about because you see them so often in culture, or you think about them, you know, just being on a boat where you can't see land. I've never had that experience before. And you know, I'm forty six years old, and it's something that I've seen in countless movies. I've thought about it in countless you know, books or stories. There are songs about it, but I've ever experienced it. I've always been land. I've either been on land or so far above land that it is irrelevant, or land has been in sight, you know, And there's something about being out on the ocean looking out and just seeing the just the horizon that is terrifying, it's also relaxing. It's one inspiring and it's you know, I don't know whether I'll experience it again or will this be the only time that I do it, But I'm glad that I got to have that feeling. 00:12:32 Speaker 3: It seems like you're hooked into cruise culture at this point. 00:12:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. I may. It might just be non stop cruises for me for this, you know, right now, I might just be on a break from my next cruise. Yeah. 00:12:44 Speaker 3: You just don't know it yet until you're on that cruise. Kind of at the karaoke night tour. 00:12:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean. Part of it also is even just having my own room on a boat. And it wasn't as small a room as I thought it would be. It had a little balcony. 00:13:01 Speaker 3: Oh. 00:13:01 Speaker 2: We love it out on the balcony. And you know that's the other thing. You know, I don't like traveling unless it's for work, and then I feel like I'm getting away with something because I'm not the type to just be like, I want to spend a big chunk of my money to just be somewhere else, in part because I've whenever I am traveling somewhere and I'm in a hotel. Part of the time, I kind of feel like, well, the hotel's been paid for, I should just take a nap in the hotel, right Which if I was paying to go somewhere else, I think I would have the thought of, like I could have just taken this nap in my apartment, which I'm already paying for, you know. But when you're working and you have to go someplace and you stay in a hotel, I feel like I can enjoy just like, Oh, I'm in this room that is not my own, and I don't have to go anywhere right now, and I can just relax. 00:13:55 Speaker 3: That is my exact mentality. Any job I'm on, I'm constantly just angling, you know, maybe is there any need for me in another location? It could the company be paying for some element of me leaving the state. I'm happy to do it when somebody else is paying for that. I mean, it's the best feeling in the world. 00:14:12 Speaker 2: But I can never quite get locked into the mindset of the casual traveler, someone who you know works for their money and then spends that money to go be somewhere else. 00:14:23 Speaker 3: When was what was the last place you casually traveled to? 00:14:26 Speaker 2: Oh? No, gosh, I mean, I I'm not sure where the last place was that I casually traveled to. Probably Jackson Heights. I'm a ten minutes for my apartment, you know, a free walk. I just walked there. I don't know, It's it's just not something that occurs. Usually it's I have a you know, an improv show or a gig of some sort, or you know, I'm filming something, and then it's just like, well, you have to go here. I'm like, well, I have to right there. 00:14:57 Speaker 3: So what do you like to spend money on? 00:15:00 Speaker 2: Probably, you know, just dumb stuff like like I'll spend a lot of money on records. I'll spend money on physical media, books, movies, you know, Blu rays. It's just like a lot of times it'll be stuff that I realize is it just piles up. I have a collector mentality, right, and I'm very aware of the fact that when I'm doing that, partly it's a denial of death that I have records, I have books. I have movies that I've bought that I've had for literally decades that I haven't That was things I was very excited, like, oh, I love this movie. I want to buy this and it sits on a shelf for fifteen or twenty years, and I never play it while I'm clearing whatever. 00:15:55 Speaker 3: The comfort of knowing you could, and. 00:15:58 Speaker 2: The illusion that I still have an of time, right because realistically I have so many books and things that I haven't gotten around to that if we were really trying to like line up a schedule, if I had someone who could come in and say like, Okay, when are you going to do all this? I have the sneaking suspicion that the result would be, like, You're going to have to make some choices because you yeah, it's never going to happen realistically, you're not going to watch all. 00:16:24 Speaker 3: These movies, especially considering you're going to continue buying more. 00:16:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm adding to it. 00:16:30 Speaker 3: You're still digging on that hole. 00:16:32 Speaker 2: But I find comfort now. Sometimes I buy them as a totem, just a marker of I like this movie. I like it so much, I have it in my home. 00:16:40 Speaker 3: This is who I am. 00:16:42 Speaker 2: But it might be a movie that I never need to see again, you know, but I must own it. I must own it as a sign of how much I like. I must spend twenty or thirty dollars just as I'm just voting in favor of it existing. 00:16:56 Speaker 3: I used to be in that same boat, had been moving from LA to New York working back, really shook that feeling out of me. 00:17:03 Speaker 2: You carry enough heavy boxes of stuff that you don't use. 00:17:07 Speaker 3: And just boxes of books, it will just kill you. 00:17:12 Speaker 2: I wish I wish I could have that mind. I wish I could minimalize. I see people who live a minimal lifestyle, and I'm so envious because they they're not unhappy people, well some of them as far as you know, but they're not unhappy because they feel like, oh I should have more stuff. They seem to be at peace in terms of like they could get up and go any moment, any moment, they could move without stress, whereas I'd be like, well, time to pack up the comics and the toys, you know, just like time to pack up these like pointless figurines that I've bought that It's just like, why do I have this just so you can like sit on a bookshelf in front of books I don't read. 00:17:56 Speaker 3: You know what kind of figurines I have? 00:17:59 Speaker 2: A Rick moranis strange brew a Mackenzie Brother figurine. It sits atop my like entertainment center. I can barely even see it. It has it has accessories, it has like little beer bottles, a little Canadian like it's just recreating the old SETV sketch. Now, if I came home, now I love Rick Moranis. He's one of my comedic heroes. If I came home when I found out that I had been burglarized and the only thing they took was the Rick Moranis Mackenzie Brother figurine, I would I would be so relieved. I would think, oh God, okay. And I don't think I would reacquire it. I don't think i'd be like, I must buy it again. I'd just be like, you know what, I had ten years with it. That's better than some people get with their pets whom they adore, you know. And there's a million things like that where it's like, if someone would just burglarize me and take these things, I'd be like, ah, that's so because they took it, took my Marianas figurine. Oh well, I guess I'll just live the rest of my days without it. 00:19:08 Speaker 3: To get to the point where being robbed is a relief that feels, I. 00:19:12 Speaker 2: Mean I don't want to be robbed. I don't want that violation of my personal space. I don't want that, but I do know that, like if they came and inadvertently did that sparking joy thing, like without knowing it, if they just yeah, they just if I got a con Marie condo, an accidental mariecondo burglarization, where without knowing it, the burglars took everything that doesn't severely spark joy in me. I would come home and be like, oh my goodness, what a delightful, delightful happenstance. They took everything that didn't spark joy. 00:19:49 Speaker 3: Right, and that person obviously shares a lot of interests with you, maybe a potential future friend. 00:19:54 Speaker 2: Oh of course, if I meet them, I think, well, we can go buy in our belongings because I like everything you have. I mean, and that's not to say that the Rick moranis figuring doesn't. That's the problem with the sparking joy thing. It's not that it doesn't spark joy in me. I like it, but I don't need it. Right, But when I play that question in my mind, I think, well, I wouldn't have gotten this if I didn't like it. It's not like this is a bunch of stuff I picked up at a trade convention. This is this is like, yeah, I got this because I like it. Of course I'm not gonna I could be one hundred years old. It will be like, yeah, I like SCTV, I like Rick moranis you know, keep it, keep it. And that's how I end up with a million a million useless things. 00:20:39 Speaker 3: For me, the sparking joy thing at this point is I will look at an object and just wonder, what is joy? Do? What is this feeling at all? Can I experience joy in the first place? 00:20:53 Speaker 2: It's a paralyzing question. You just stand there holding the object, thinking about a much deeper. 00:21:02 Speaker 3: Version of the question, just pure numbness maybe the question For me. The only thing that really starts to pile up at this point is shirts, because you know, I'll just keep a shirt for twenty years. I guess it's more is it ugly? Which is getting harder and harder to tell as well. 00:21:21 Speaker 2: I have a problem. I mean, I've gained a shirt size during the pandemic. It's the combination of the pandemic struck at exactly the age where I've gone. I've gone through a change physically. I was a few years ago, at my most disciplined, I was a medium shirt, and then at my most comfortable I was a large shirt. Sure, and now I'm an excel Oh interesting, Okay, And you know it's just it's my lack of discipline. Pandemic, global pandemic. But also there's the part of me that is like the laziest, most undisciplined part of me really took advantage when the pandemic hit, like, well, now it's time to eat what we want, of course, and we're not going to exercise because nothing matters, huh. And it's just sort of like, now I have a problem because I have all these large shirts and a smattering of mediums, which were my optimism shirts. They were like, well, we can't get rid of the mediums, because who knows what happy days are ahead, the great, the great new discipline times are perhaps in the in the in the front view mirror. But I can't bring myself to get rid of my large shirts because I do believe I will make it back there. 00:22:38 Speaker 3: Right, So you've kind of in your closet have three different men's wardrobes. 00:22:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like three people live here and two of them moved out, and one of them is never coming back. Like I mean, yeah, I mean c the old Muppet song where Gonzo's seeing the I'd like to go back there day. 00:23:01 Speaker 3: Like that's me looking at my heart breaking song. 00:23:04 Speaker 2: It's a heartbreaking song, and it's a heartbreaking small pile of medium sized shots, I. 00:23:10 Speaker 3: Will say to hear Gonzo sing is one of the sadest I mean, one of the saddest voices in recording. 00:23:18 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And now that we're on the topic, you know, has maintained his figure impeccably across decades. I looks glorious. I have a feeling, I have a feeling that his lifestyle, while unorthodox, probably includes a healthier regiment of exercise and proper diet than than my own. He's a weird he's a weirdo, but I can imagine him enjoying sprouts, you. 00:23:44 Speaker 3: Know, oh, of course, And I feel like he's got a lot of running shorts. I feel like he's somebody who's out there early break of dawn running around the city. 00:23:52 Speaker 2: Also there also, I think we can say fairly confidently that Gonzo is most likely a vegan. 00:23:59 Speaker 3: Oh, he loves the chickens. 00:24:01 Speaker 2: He loves the chickens. There's no way, and once and everything every other form of meat tastes like chickens. So there's just there's no way that he would do that to Camille. 00:24:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Look, Connor, I would love to talk about I could probably spend the next hour talking about Gonzo, but I can't do that today. I need to talk to you about something else. 00:24:22 Speaker 2: What's that? What's that? 00:24:23 Speaker 3: Look? You agreed to be on this podcast a little while ago. I was so happy. I thought, Connor fantastic has his own podcast, Dead Eyes, which is wonderful. He obviously knows the sea, knows what it means to be a guest, what it means to be a host of a podcast Aboutely. Well, come on, he'll treat me with the respect I deserve. I will try to do the same, and then we'll release the episode and everyone will enjoy it. So I was a little a little surprised yesterday when I opened my door, thinking I'm going to be recording my podcast. I said, no gifts with Connor tomorrow, and uh, there was a little a little something there for me for me from you, which is now kind of in this bag, kind of a large bag that says celebrate, and so I'm just curious. I don't know what your game is here. I don't know what the plan is for you. Is this a gift for me? 00:25:28 Speaker 2: I have to say that it is a gift for you, okay. And I know I know that you. I know that you said no gifts. Okay, Right, I did feel, you know, I grew up in the Midwest. Sure, and there's a certain uh, there's a certain aspect of of and I don't know if it's exclusively Midwestern, but there's a way of doing things. There's a there's a level of politeness that overrides the wishes of a host. Okay, it's important. I'm so grateful for you have me on your podcasts. 00:26:06 Speaker 3: Right, Okay, Okay. 00:26:08 Speaker 2: I feel it's customary for a guest to bring a small token of appreciation, Okay. And I think there's a dance that occurs, and I hope I'm not I please don't take offense at this. I know it's a lot to say, please don't take offense at this, but please don't take offense at this. 00:26:29 Speaker 3: I'm just kind of controlling myself right now, and I'm going to let you speak, I. 00:26:34 Speaker 2: Can't help but feel that to some extent, and forgive me if I'm wrong about this saying please no gifts. While I'm not doubting your sincerity, there is a part of me that feels like that is part of a social dance, a part of a give and take, which is preemptively the gift that the host is providing is to alleviate the pressure to feel compelled to provide a gift or a show of gratitude. But that does not necessarily preclude the possibility that a guest might opt to override that request. Right now, if I've misread this, and I hope that I haven't, I apologize sincerely, Connor. 00:27:35 Speaker 3: How does it feel to be wrong? 00:27:37 Speaker 2: Oh? It feels Can I be honest with you? 00:27:41 Speaker 3: I would love to just pour your heart out to me. 00:27:44 Speaker 2: There it feels two ways to me. On the one hand, it feels terrible to be wrong. There is shame, there is a feeling that you have failed. But on the other hand, it also feels wonderful because it's an opportunity for learning and for growth. To be wrong is to discover something that one did not know. And why else are we here but to learn and to improve. So if I am wrong. If I am wrong, I pray that it shall be so that in the future I might be less wrong. 00:28:28 Speaker 3: Right, And I will say one other thing I know about growing up in the Midwest, and that culture is making up bullshit excuses which I feel like you've kind of just dragged me through and for you to come on here and kind of just try to make me the bad guy in this situation. You know, this little soliloquy, it's Oh, no, I don't know that I could easily shut the zoom down now to that. I'm not going to. Oh, I'm going to you know, it is my job as the host to kind of just see each person as for who they are, regardless of not only making the initial mistake, but then, you know, building up this tower of mistakes as they're trying trying to back out of blame, try to excuse their behavior. I'm going to just forgive. I'm going to say, do you want me to open the gift? 00:29:27 Speaker 2: Well, let's hold off on that for a moment. Okay, I'm happy to I have a question for you. Do you do you not like gifts? 00:29:36 Speaker 3: This is what I'll say. I certainly don't like a surprise. I don't like the unknown. Yeah, and I don't like people making assumptions about things that I may or may not want. 00:29:49 Speaker 2: Forgive me. This feels so good to learn this because now I feel some relief that I didn't tell you uh not to give me a gift, because I feel like that's exactly what you've given me. Is I feel that I understand you a little better I did before. And what could be? What could be better than that? Isn't that what we strive for as human beings, to understand each other just a little. 00:30:16 Speaker 3: Bit better, to see to sit here and see you kind of laid bare and then rebuilt in real time. 00:30:23 Speaker 2: I have aired, and I admit this, I have had. I known your fear of an uncertain outcome, because now now there's a part of me that almost wishes for you, and maybe this is worse. To keep the gift but never open it like a like like Schrodinger's cat, there be a live or dead cat in this ba Let it be whatever you hope it could be. But no, you know what I'm gonna say. Let's go ahead and with your with your mission, perhaps open the gift and see what you think of it. 00:31:04 Speaker 3: Okay, I will say you this is you know, repentance. Your repentance fuels sincere. 00:31:13 Speaker 2: It is sincere I do. If I could go back and do it again, I would not have brought a. 00:31:18 Speaker 3: Gift, right, And that's that's the real tell with repentance. If you repeat, should I get another gift? Then well no, you didn't learn right. But there's really no telling what the future holds for either of us. 00:31:32 Speaker 2: Can I ask this, Has anyone ever made this mistake before and then followed up by sending an apology gift after the episode? And is that something you would object to? 00:31:44 Speaker 3: There have been a couple and I've driven them out of the business, all right, So that's I hope that's answer enough. 00:31:51 Speaker 2: Well, I gosh, I love the business, so please don't. I shall. Yeah, I shall never send another gift. That is my promise to you because I cherish I cherish this business. So you're mister Hollywood, or certainly mister East Coast New York Hollywood. 00:32:16 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I think it's time for me to get into this gift, okay, and we'll just see what unfolds from here. So I'm reaching in. There's now a little brown envelope here, which may be difficult to open. Let's see if I can. No, I'm just going to use my ross strength. Maybe not because the inside is kind of the plastic defense that you know, so animals can't get into it or what have you. That's Oh, here we go, We've got it open. Okay, I'm reaching in. Okay, wait, okay, So there's an Okay, it says there's a gift from Connor Ratliffe, and then there's something but I actually have Wait, it's a welly quick fixed kit. It's an on the go first aid kit. Yeah, what's happening here? 00:33:10 Speaker 2: You ever been on the go? 00:33:12 Speaker 3: I'm always on the go? 00:33:14 Speaker 2: Well, okay, I hate to inform you. There's always the possibility that you might get hurt while on the go, and no one wants to carry a full assortment of medical supplies with them. This is a convenient, portable way. There are ointments, spandages, various small items. They don't take up a lot of room in your luggage. 00:33:37 Speaker 3: Right. 00:33:38 Speaker 2: And what I'll say is, now that you have it, it's not a cursed item, but the way life works, now that you have it, you will you will now you will now be hurt while on the go, because it's like when you learn a new word and then suddenly it's everywhere. Now that we've talked about this, you're gonna cut your finger, You're gonna burn your elbow. There's gonna be something that you're gonna think, Ow, I need an ointment, I need a bandage. I started doing I started doing something a few years ago which I recommend to people now, particularly men who carry a wallet on them on their person. I tell them, if you have any band aids in your house, put a few band aids in your wallet. They don't take up a lot of room. And once you start doing this, you will notice opportunities. This is pre pandemic, obviously, you will notice opportunities where suddenly someone says, does anyone have a band aid? And you will amaze the people around you that you, a man who seemingly doesn't have anything useful to offer, have a band aid. I started doing it, and within in a very short period of time, I found myself around someone who was They were like, it was a friend of mine who has kids. Their kid fell over. They were like, I don't have a band aid, and I'm like, I have a band aid. And this parent was like reacted to me as if I was a wizard. They couldn't believe that someone without children was prepared for an accident. I was at a concert once where the lead singer cut himself by accident on something on stage and then made a joke to the audience does anyone have a band aid? And I was near the front and I said, I have a band aid. And during a concert in Brooklyn, this is years ago. What band was I don't remember the name because it wasn't like a band I was there to see. 00:35:42 Speaker 3: It was just a. 00:35:44 Speaker 2: Various acts, but the crowd reacted as if I had played a guitar solo. It was really everyone was so impressed that someone at a concert had a band aid available for the singer. It was both I think impressive and also just very funny, just like good prop comedy. 00:36:06 Speaker 3: That's that is a great idea to have a band I mean, I'm going to if only at concerts start carrying a band aid and just hoping that my favorite musicians end up in some sort of emergency situation. 00:36:18 Speaker 2: It's such a great easy thing because it just it fits right in between like whatever paper money you have in your wallet or just behind an ATM card or something like that. You just keep one and either I haven't needed it for me very often, but the number of times when I've been of use to someone of use to someone else has been surprising amount. 00:36:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've started trying to carry a bag, and I'm trying to make it kind of a complete set of things that I may need, another person may need. You know, I have the portable deodorant. This kind of thing. A band aid's make perfect sense in there. 00:36:52 Speaker 2: Is there a spot in your bag for this wellie kit that I've give. 00:36:57 Speaker 3: This welly kit is the ideal because I don't want see, I don't want a loose band aid floating around in the bag. Then it becomes kind of a gross garbage receptacle where people were like, this guy's dirty. 00:37:08 Speaker 2: Well because also a band aid. Over time, a band aid will will sort of age and it's going to make his way out of that wrapper, and then there'll be a part where like one of the part of it will like fall off or something, and then you'll just you know, and. 00:37:22 Speaker 3: Then you're like biting into your dinner and notice that a band aid has fallen on your food, and my dad. 00:37:29 Speaker 2: Started doing a thing over the past couple of decades because my sister and I both moved to New York within a few years of nine to eleven, and there had been like a blackout in New York right when I moved here. And there was a Christmas where my dad gave a he had special My mom usually handles most of the gift buying in the family for the two of them, but there was a Christmas where he was very excited that he had a gift that he was taking care of for me and for Brion, my sister. And it was these two go bags that were just like they had like you know, like a blanket, like an emergency blanket, flares and flashlights and like this powder that you put if you have to stop like gushing blood. 00:38:19 Speaker 3: Oh blood. 00:38:21 Speaker 2: It was like blood. It's like blood clotting stuff. It's they use it in the military that like if you have a big cut and it's bleeding a lot, you pour like the sand on on, yeah, and it kind of clots it. It's kind of terrifying gift to open on Christmas morning because it's sort of like assuming that like something bad's going to happen in the city. Where you live, and then you'll go for this bag and then you'll be on the run. It's just sort of it's a very sort of like fear of the walking Dead kind of uh frame of mind. And then every now and then he sort of updated these presents a lot of my dad. And my dad's not a like a survivalist or anything. He like worries and he'll put together these like packs that are like, well, here's what you need, and I think something this Wellie is in some ways maybe a remnant of that kind of gift giving impulse, which is like planning ahead for things that might go wrong. 00:39:18 Speaker 3: Think of all of the horrible things that could possibly happen. Yeah, yeah, when was the last time you were injured on the go? I'm trying to think or had some sort of medical emergency on the go. 00:39:29 Speaker 2: I'm literally like trying to get a sense memory. I'm looking at my body to think when did I last like put a band aid on? You know, it's funny because the mind does blot out these kinds of experiences. It wasn't on the go, but there was a it was opening up a can of beans to make soup, and you know, when you have those pop top sort of cans. 00:39:58 Speaker 3: Give me a can opener, can, yeah, any day above that dangerous little pop top. 00:40:04 Speaker 2: It was one of those things where like I pulled at it and it sort of got away from me as I pulled at it, and then the side of the thing like sliced my finger. Oh And what was really bad about this was that I grabbed it and then I wrapped it in like a I grabbed for like a cloth and I grabbed it, and then I thought, I need to get to the bathroom. I need to get to where the first aid stuff is like under the sink. And then I like a second had passed and I looked down and the blood had just soaked through the cloth so fast, Oh lord, and I realized I'm gonna pass out before I get to that. I literally like made my way to the bathroom. But then I like lowered myself to the ground just passed out for how long I don't know, probably just a few minutes, but it was enough that it was like I lost the ability to stand up. I have passed out. You were asking about nausea before. I have passed out on a number of occasions where I just get very dizzy and fortunately I've never had the thing of like falling straight down to the ground. I always start to feel it and then I'm able to lower myself to the ground kindly collapse the very bad feeling. I turned bright white, like a like the state puff marshallow man kind of white. I break out in a certain kind of cold sweat, and then my eyes just like just everything becomes like sort of brownish gray, and then I'm. 00:41:32 Speaker 3: Out low blood pressure something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems I'm in a similar territory. It's never quite gotten to me, but I, you know, standing up out of the car even like, am I going to just pass out in its parking lot for no reason? 00:41:46 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:41:47 Speaker 3: To you know, a bit of a curse. But everybody else is looking to get that low blood pressure. I'll take the downfalls of it any day. 00:41:55 Speaker 2: Now. 00:41:55 Speaker 3: What happened to the can of beans all over the kitchen floor? 00:42:00 Speaker 2: I think I might might have set it down in the sink, and I don't I don't believe that I finished making the soup. I think I considered it like a well we're done for the night sort of right, right? This can is is just forfeit to the experience. 00:42:18 Speaker 3: Right, probably when you could have used that soup the most. 00:42:21 Speaker 2: Probably yeah, for the energy. 00:42:23 Speaker 3: Well, now I have this little kit. I mean, it is a scary thing to think. Now this could kind of kind of just lead to It's now opened this door to injury on. 00:42:34 Speaker 2: The curry very definitely, and the anger that you feel at me for bringing a gift against your wishes will be compounded in the future when a rational mind, perhaps let's say, for the sake of argument, a rational mind would say that you should feel increased gratitude towards me providing you with this form of mild relief. But we are not purely rational beings. We are emotional beings with feelings, and I do not judge you in advance for when you are hurt on the go, and I pray that it is only the mildest of hurts. But when it does inevitably happen and you curse my name for having caused it by giving you this welly package, know that I am sorry and that I understand, and I bear no ill feeling towards your rage towards me. 00:43:33 Speaker 3: I mean, my other option is to kind of just become deeply agoraphobic, not leap the house, and I could go down that path as well, which I wouldn't, which are. 00:43:44 Speaker 2: Most most accidents happen in the home. 00:43:49 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, this is an on the go kit, so it feels like the universe has been challenged. 00:43:54 Speaker 2: It also works. Don't think that you can't use the ointments or the bandages that. 00:44:00 Speaker 3: They will somehow special occasions, they. 00:44:02 Speaker 2: Will bounce off of you. They will not adhere to a home bound person. 00:44:08 Speaker 3: If I have an injury at home, yeah, this kit will not be used, even if I don't have other other bandages, I will bleed out before I use my own the go kit. 00:44:17 Speaker 2: Burn so stubborn. 00:44:19 Speaker 3: There's a reason that I am where I am today, and it's not because I used on the go kits at home. 00:44:26 Speaker 2: That's not the reason. 00:44:28 Speaker 3: It's hard to say. It's hard to say what logic I'm getting at here, Yes, but. 00:44:33 Speaker 2: I understand the reason that you are where you are today is not because of on the go kits that you have employed. 00:44:41 Speaker 3: On the go kits have played no part in my life. Yeah, and uh, this kit will remain in my bag and will not be accessed until you know the part. I'm on the go and there's blood. Something needs ointment, and my only prayer is that the people surrounding me, my friends, my family, my loved ones, are the ones who are injured and I'm fine and I get to administer care. You get to be the hero, get to be the hero kind of what you've done. 00:45:12 Speaker 2: If that happens. I know that, despite whatever whatever feelings you might wish to have, I know that when you play the big shot and you pull out that WELLI to help a loved one who's been mildly hurt. I know that part of you will gradually think that I played a role in your moment of triumph. 00:45:32 Speaker 3: But I will not speak your name, I will not credit you. I will probably have to go back and delete this episode from the Internet just to erase any paper trail. 00:45:40 Speaker 2: It will be worth it knowing that I have won inside your mind. The victory is not on the battlefield, it is in the mind of those that we have triumphed over. 00:45:53 Speaker 3: I'm so excited, I mean, and I will. I will also say, let's just be honest. It's a stylish kit, which also leads me to believe the band Aids might be lower quality. 00:46:03 Speaker 2: It might be because it's pretty snappy. They did not style graphic design and packaging. We're a priority, and we want to hope, we want to hope that this is indicative of the entire infrastructure of that business and not that they have prioritized flash over substance. 00:46:21 Speaker 3: The last thing you need in an on the go injury situation is something that looked good on Instagram. 00:46:28 Speaker 2: It's all sizzliness thing. 00:46:30 Speaker 3: Band aids not sticking. The ointment is you know, just an olive oil. It could be devastating, but there's really no telling because I'm not going to test it at home, and until you're in the situation. Let's say this expires. Also, this expires in May, so hurry up. 00:46:55 Speaker 2: I'll also say this. I'll also say I'll also see this, live for the moment, live for today. Expiration dates on medical supplies are dictated by the insurance companies who build in a cushion. 00:47:15 Speaker 3: That's so true. 00:47:17 Speaker 2: So this isn't like milk where it's going to go bad. Almost like clockwork. It's you can take year old aspirin. This is just the lawyers covering themselves. You have a you have a solid year before that, well he starts to become a question mark. 00:47:32 Speaker 3: I can live on the edge I think definitely until May. Just go for it, and every month passing that, just slow down slightly, knowing that I have some safety net. 00:47:42 Speaker 2: It expires May two. 00:47:44 Speaker 3: For says expires five of twenty two. 00:47:47 Speaker 2: All right, I was hoping maybe it said it may expire. Okay. Yeah, that definitely is a mark against me in terms of the But also how lucky to have outlived the medical supplies that you never needed to call upon. 00:48:06 Speaker 3: Oh, to see the hospital in the rear view. 00:48:09 Speaker 2: What a blessing to know that you will essentially have if you don't require the welly between now and May. What a gift that is to think about how lucky you've been to not be injured during the until that package became totally redundant medically. 00:48:31 Speaker 3: Right. The dream I mean, I will say about six years ago, just a passing thought I had was I'm going to die in twenty twenty one. And so I will tell you that the year of twenty twenty one, every inch I moved, driven by fear. Once we got past that, what a relief. Yeah, I had this premonition and it didn't work out. 00:48:57 Speaker 2: When I was in high school growing up in Zuri, there's there's a big earthquake fault under the state of Missouri, and uh, some guy, I'm sure this is searchable. Some guy back when I was in high school predicted that there's gonna be a giant destructive earthquake that would happen on a certain date, and it was treated sort of like Y two K. It was this big build up to like the date he had predicted, and then it of course didn't happen, and everyone just went back to normal. And I thought, well, if we were really taking this guy seriously, like he could be off by a week, that's not true. But everybody just sort of acted as if like, well, he was wrong, therefore there will be no earthquake. And I thought, well, either this was worth paying attention to and we should maybe cushion in a year or two. In geological time, those are mere moments. But everybody instantly was sort of like, well, no earthquake. I guess he was totally wrong. And it turns out he was totally wrong. That was decades ago, still a flash in the in the uh, just a moment has passed in terms of the way that the Earth's core experiences time. 00:50:05 Speaker 3: Right geological time. 00:50:07 Speaker 2: Now philologically we move past it pretty quick from it being a front page story to just being like, let's not even think about the earthquake. 00:50:15 Speaker 3: What became of the quack? Yeah, I don't know, well exactly he. 00:50:20 Speaker 2: Went back to whatever whatever. He hung his head in shame and went back to whatever. A little little building he crawled out of. You know. 00:50:31 Speaker 3: This is a groundhog. Okay, I think it's time to play a game, all right. Would you like to play a game called Gift Master or a game called Gift or a curse. Gift will tell you how it is. Okay, Gift for a curse? I need a number between one and ten seven. Okay, I have to do some light calculating. Right now. You can promote something, recommend something, do whatever you want with the microphone until I return. 00:50:55 Speaker 2: Okay, well, I guess the two things that I would promote are my podcast Dead Eyes, which is about me being fired from a small speaking role in Band of Brothers. It's about more than that. It's about failure and success and coping with disappointment and life and in show business. And I do this show called the George Lucas Talk Show where I pretend to be retired filmmaker George Lucas and interact with guests who are just being themselves. And if you're in New York City on a Sunday night, I do a show called Rat Scraps at a venue called Caveat on the Lower East Side, which is an improv show with surprise guest monologists and some of the best improvisers in the world. 00:51:36 Speaker 3: Perfect all excellent recommendations. 00:51:39 Speaker 2: Great. That felt like a very comfortable plugging segment. 00:51:43 Speaker 3: You know, you just need a little fence, the opportunity to plug. I love to give somebody just a little space, just a little and the push off the promotion cliff that people need. 00:51:56 Speaker 2: Just the information you need. You can take it or leave it if you don't want to leave it, if you don't want to enjoy any of those things, live your life. I'm not pressuring anyone. 00:52:05 Speaker 3: Okay, this is how gift or a curse works. I'm going to name three things. You're going to tell me if they're a gift or a curse and why, and then I'm going to tell you if you're correct or not. You can lose this game. Okay, you can win this game. It has been won before rarely, but you know it does happen, So let's get going here. Number one, this is a listener suggestion from someone named Beth, and this is listen carefully because this is a lot of words that Beth has suggested. Gift or a curse. People who beep their horn approaching a blind bend on a country road but without slowing down at all gift to a curse. 00:52:44 Speaker 2: So these are people who are they're beeping a warning to the people coming around the bend, it seems that way, but they're not slowing down. 00:52:53 Speaker 3: They have decided not to slow down. 00:52:56 Speaker 2: I mean it has elements of both. I'm trying to figure out this is yes, I'm trying, am I trying to get inside your head in terms of the determination of whether these are a gift. 00:53:04 Speaker 3: You're just trying to say if this is a gift or a curse. 00:53:07 Speaker 2: I mean why I would guess it's on balance it's not a great gift. But I'd rather have some warning than no warning at all. But the flip side to that is, if I don't have enough time to get out of the way, then do I cherish those few moments of blissful ignorance rather than have a harbinger of the terrible faith that awaits me. So I'm gonna say it's a curse, because wouldn't I rather enjoy those last few moments before I am mowed down by this vehicle, rather than have them waste those last few moments with pointless bleeding of their bleating of their horn at me. Why do they get to hold court my precious last few seconds. I'm going to say it's a curse. I don't. I don't want to hear from my the my doom before it happens. I just want to experience it. 00:54:10 Speaker 3: I mean, this is truly an injury on the go. If we've ever talked about one. 00:54:14 Speaker 2: Guys, there's no amount of a thousand expired wellies would do me no good in this circumstance. Connor wrong, Wrong, It's a gift. 00:54:23 Speaker 3: It's a gift. I'm I'm thinking about this person who refuses to stop there. They are pure sound and speed. They're making noise, They're not making any compromises outside of just you know, filling the night air with a horn. I love this person. I love what they're doing. They've brought this element of violence to the country road. They're looking out for no one but themselves. For all we know, they just love to punch the horn. 00:54:51 Speaker 2: I concede the point, but I I will stand by my choice that I did not want to. I did not want to concede my last few moments at peace to their noise, vandalism, editorializing in my last seconds of mortal consciousness. 00:55:09 Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, I mean stand by your point. All you want, it's not going to get you any further in the game. 00:55:15 Speaker 2: Now, is it still possible for me to win the game? 00:55:17 Speaker 3: Or am I it's possible for You've definitely lost the game, but you can now get a you know, a sixty six percent if you get the next two correct. 00:55:24 Speaker 2: Hey, that's a D. That's a passing grade. We love a D in high school. We love a D. 00:55:30 Speaker 3: Okay, number two. This is another listener suggestion. Someone named Mackenzie has suggested gift or a curse. TV shows about vikings. 00:55:41 Speaker 2: TV shows about vikings. Now I'm inclined. I believe my parents watch at least one show about vikings. I don't think I partaken any Game of Thrones doesn't count as vikings. 00:55:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't. 00:55:55 Speaker 2: Its aesthetics, but there are some Yeah, there's some moments that feel Viking adjacent, right, But I have, but I've seen I've called at times when my parents are watching a show that I believe is a Viking show. I think the closest experience I have with any kind of Viking pop culture would be the I believe still running syndicated comic strip, Heygar the Horrible. So I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of whether or not these shows are a gift for curses. I do not watch them. I will say this, and I don't care if I lose a point on this, because because I have to go with this, because my parents have been very good to me, and I believe they enjoy Viking shows and I and I think they've earned that. And so I'm going to say it's a gift only in that the only people I know watch Viking shows are my parents, and they seem to like them. So I'm gonna say the Viking shows are a gift, even though I feel like I'm probably wrong. 00:57:03 Speaker 3: You get the point. 00:57:04 Speaker 2: I get the point. Wonderful. 00:57:05 Speaker 3: I look, have I ever seen a television show about Vikings? No? And this Mackenzie person writes in like there are just dozens of them I can think of maybe one Vikings show that i'm and I believe it's called Vikings. 00:57:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, And aren't some of them like on the History Channel or. 00:57:23 Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say, where it's like, how could that possibly be a good television show? But people, your parents are two examples. I love them. Yeah, I could see myself enjoying a Viking TV show. I have nothing against that. I think that seems like a wonderful idea. 00:57:41 Speaker 2: The work, it seems like a lot of work to make one, you. 00:57:45 Speaker 3: Know, kind of Yeah, Scandinavians rating various things, and I think I could get into that. Why not, that's a gift. Yeah, I haven't seen one that was bad. I haven't seen one that was good. I've seen a billboard for one that was apparently on the History Channel or what TLC or something, and I thought, well, that seems strange. Never looked past that, but certainly not a curse for me. 00:58:09 Speaker 2: I do know in this game that my instincts, as far as whether I was right or not, have been one hundred percent off the mark because I was so confident I was correct in the first one, and I really thought I was thrown away the second one, So I don't know what to expect. I do I doubt myself or am I leaning into a trap? 00:58:26 Speaker 3: It's a corridor of disorientation and do you just have to make your way through one way or the other? The final one another listener suggestion, someone named Michael. Now, this is an interesting one. GIF to a curse sledgehammers. Sledgehammers which feels kind of in the almost within the realm of vikings, if we're being honest large hammers. 00:58:50 Speaker 2: It does. And I'm afraid I'm going to go cultural on this one because practically, I assume I've never needed to use a sledgehammer. I guess I've probably witness people using sledgehammers. It seems like they're such a practical tool for such a specific purpose. Actually, very grateful I've never needed to do anything so strenuous that a sledgehammer was the only option. There's the Peter Gabriel song about what that references? Sledgehammer? 00:59:19 Speaker 3: The most famous song about sledgehammers? Is it a song of what is that song actually about? 00:59:26 Speaker 2: It's a metaphor, I don't think, I. 00:59:29 Speaker 3: Mean, I hope it's a literal sledgehammer. 00:59:31 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, how generous. There was also a nineteen eighties sitcom starring David Rash who is a cast member on Succession. 00:59:43 Speaker 3: Who does he play on Succession? 00:59:45 Speaker 2: I'm blanking on the character's name. Is it Ken? I can't remember. He's great on the show. He's great in everything. He's in Burn after reading the Coen Brothers movie. But he was the title character. I believe he's a second city guy, a Chicago guy from back in the day, and really good actor, really funny guy. He doesn't look like he should be as funny as he is, and he plays like Sledgehammer was this very goofy show that probably I'm guessing has aged badly because it was sort of like parodying like dirty hairy type cop tropes. Sure, and he was just like a cop who like shot everything. Maybe it's aged really well, who I know, it's the perfect It's just like everybody who can see what they want in it, you know. But I remember at the age when it came out it was a very goofy show. It was sort of like an airplane naked gun, kind of like the jokes were more important than any sort of bass reality or anything. Right, But I always associated like that was the thing where I was like, this guy's got his own TV show, and then when I'd see him, like he's in Weirdly he is in the movie United ninety three. 01:00:57 Speaker 3: Oh, that's the nine to eleven, one of a dueling nine to eleven movies. 01:01:01 Speaker 2: It's a really well made movie because it's actually like most of the movie is about people just doing their jobs on a very bad day. 01:01:12 Speaker 3: Wow. And I didn't realize though it's. 01:01:14 Speaker 2: It's it's really kind of like it didn't I might. I only saw the one time, but I remember thinking this is fascinating because it's sort of about how on this day there are just a lot of people who are good at their jobs who just sort of find themselves in a situation that's beyond the system's ability to cope with. 01:01:34 Speaker 3: Right. 01:01:35 Speaker 2: But one of the passengers on the flight that that ultimately the United ninety three, the flight that crashes in the field, I believe, was played by David rash. I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. I might be mispronouncing it, but I remember being so distracted by that because like sledgehammers, like the because it would kind of be like if like Leslie Nielsen was on the right, something'd be like, Frank, it's on the plane, Like, what's going to happen? Because you sort of expect when you see him, You're like, Oh, are they gonna like Quentin Tarantino this where he like pulls out his gun and kills all the hijackers or something, you know, are they going to rewrite the ending? But anyway, because I like that show, and because I like the song, and because I feel like a sledgehammer seems like a useful thing in this world, they wouldn't have invented it if regular hammers were enough. I'm gonna say that it's a gift, and I don't care if I'm wrong, because if I'm wrong, I think it's a trick. 01:02:44 Speaker 3: Connor two out of three sixty. I love a sledgehammer. It's a larger hammer, just the brute power of a sledgehammer. 01:02:53 Speaker 2: I mean, so terrified that I was going to be wrong about that, because I genuinely was going to be angry about that one. I mean, I would have Here's why I would have accepted if it was something where it's like someone that I cared about was like hit by a sledgehammer, and therefore it's a curse, then I'd be like, fair enough. 01:03:09 Speaker 3: Three members of my family were killed with a sledgehair. 01:03:12 Speaker 2: You have your own personal experience, and I'm not going to contradict that with my, you know, pointless opinion, my generic pop culture opinion. But I'm so glad we arrived at this outcome. 01:03:25 Speaker 3: For me to bring sledgehammers onto this podcast with a horrible personal trauma attached to it and then have it throw it into the game would be the crowning achievement of my entire life. Oh my No, we love a sledgehammer. We love What could you possibly complain about with a sledgehammer smash up a sidewalk? You can just hold it feels, you know, just immediate power surging through your arms. Yes, I mean I don't personally own a sledgehammer and probably never will, but you love. There's nothing to. 01:03:59 Speaker 2: Complain about there, absolutely not. 01:04:01 Speaker 3: Well, no, you didn't play that game too bad. You got two out of three. 01:04:04 Speaker 2: Two out of three. That's a passing grade in any American high school. 01:04:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're well on your way to uh you know, your like ninth choice college. 01:04:13 Speaker 2: And my ultimate safety. 01:04:15 Speaker 3: Do you think, Uh, Okay, we've got to answer a listener question. This is called I said no emails people right into I said no gifts at gmail dot com. Desperate people, you know, people with various problems, issues that they can't they've decided they've come to a place where they can't solve it on their own. It's in a lot of ways kind of sad and pathetic. But you know, generosity is kind of my love language. Actually that's not a love language, but it could be. If I say it, it's true. So I step out, I go out of my way. I bring the guests in and we consult. Will you help me answer a question? 01:04:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 01:04:58 Speaker 3: Okay, this feels like an email deer Bridger and guest. I have a predicament. My little sister, who is very religious and doesn't believe in birth control, keeps having kids. Now, no shame towards her. Whatever floats her boat. But I work a slightly above minimum wage job, and when it comes to birthdays and especially Christmas, my budget is very slim. The more kid she has, the more money I have to spend. All her kids are boys, there are four of them now, and they are all under the age of six. I need to know what I can get all these kids without going broke on just her family alone. I'm dreading Christmas already. Please help me. I'm scared they will send me into bankruptcy. The more and more she continues to pop out help, that's I'm in therefore crying emojis, which is worth noting. And that's from Tara. Tara's sister won't stop having children and apparently expects a gift for every one of them. That's kind of the baseline situation here. 01:05:58 Speaker 2: And did we have a number on how many so far? How many kids are there? 01:06:02 Speaker 3: We've got four under six or kind of six in order just more. It sounds like they, you know, you've got four under six. She's probably got years and years of having children. This could lead to twelve fifteen offspring before. I mean, it seems like a pretty rapid rate, one every eighteen months. And so what does the sister in law, from what we can tell, is just struggling. 01:06:30 Speaker 2: She can't. 01:06:31 Speaker 3: She's you know, trying to keep the lights on while still trying to be a fun aunt. 01:06:35 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:06:36 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, her generosity is the real problem here. She wants the attention of all these nephews, this troop of nephews and the only way she can think to do it is through material means. 01:06:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think, first of all, if money is a concern, you need to start looking for alternatives to spending money. If there are things that you already do for pleasure that you can incorporate into the gift making process, Like let's say you like doing X, Y or Z, and there's a tangible result of those Like let's say you enjoy painting, or you enjoy you know, knitting things or something like, there's a creative pursuit you enjoy making sculpture or writing poems or whatever it is, and it's something you're going to be doing anyway, why not multitask? Why not? Now that's that specific circumstance that that might not be the answer. If you don't have anything like that. One way, you could sort of kill two. 01:07:39 Speaker 3: Birds, kind of create another job for yourself. 01:07:43 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is if you already are doing something for fun that can outcome that makes a gift, that's a workaround because they don't have to know that you would have been doing it anyway, like oh, I made the sculpture, it's for you, you know, And they don't have to know that you would have done it anyway. Another thing that you do, if you particularly if you like your nephews, is start making some making a big deal out of something that is not an expensive thing, like an experiential gift, like if you like spending time with your nephews, making a big deal out of one of your presents going to be we're gonna we're going to go to you know, this place or that place that maybe isn't as expensive as a gift, but feels like a big deal because that's also creating a memory. That's right. But but you can package it in a way that it's like we're going to go to such and such a place, trip to the river. We're going to go to the river. 01:08:38 Speaker 3: Ah, find an open field. 01:08:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna play this game I invented for you, you know, or some something that that they that will be more valuable to them than. 01:08:51 Speaker 3: You know. 01:08:52 Speaker 2: My one of my favorite uncles, my uncle Liam, was an artist professionally, and I remember there was one either birthday Christmas where he did a he did a really nice drawing of Donald Duck. It's like a professional quality drawing of Donald Duck, and he framed it, and I still have it on my wall in my parents' house. It's something I would never part with, even though I don't have it in my partner. 01:09:19 Speaker 3: But you've decided not to bring it with you. 01:09:21 Speaker 2: It's just like among the stuff that eventually I'm gonna have to bring with me whenever my parents move out of that house. But I don't remember any other gifts he got me. I don't know if he ever got me any other gifts. So maybe there's a world and as you do one great gift and then you back off, like I don't give gifts every birthday. Maybe started establishing a precedent, which is like, I'm not the gift aunt. 01:09:43 Speaker 3: That's the real answer here is kind of become the person that they can't count on for anything. 01:09:48 Speaker 2: Honestly, I think that the true lesson now that I think about it, is what she can take from you as inspiration. And she could just say to her nephews, I said no gifts. 01:10:00 Speaker 3: I have just become increasingly distant. 01:10:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just you reverse it. It's not don't bring me gifts. It's like I'm not getting you all gifts anymore. Did you not hear me? I said no, gifts. 01:10:13 Speaker 3: That feels like the perfect solution, Or how about. 01:10:16 Speaker 2: This in line with that that you're like twenty twenty one your death fear that didn't come true? Maybe this is probably a terrible idea for gift. You make them think something terrible happened and then you reveal that the gift is that it really didn't happen. 01:10:34 Speaker 3: Just the relief is the gift. 01:10:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, where it's like you pick them up from school and you say, something happened and I had to pick you up and your parents they were in a terrible accident and you'll be living with me from now, and then you just drive them their home to their home. They'll be distraught for a few minutes and you say, guess what, I didn't get you a Christmas present? But the gift is that there was no accident, and now you get to have the gratitude of knowing that your life is better than it could have been. 01:11:01 Speaker 3: And there's a good chance that'll be the last time you see any of them again. 01:11:04 Speaker 2: That's right, So that's a gift for yourself. Yeah, make it so that your gifts are not welcome. 01:11:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, just give the worst possible thing and then they'll just say, you don't need to worry about it this year. Just your presence is lovely. Come over and have dinner. Please don't give us anything. 01:11:23 Speaker 2: Here's a variation. One Christmas or one Birthday, give all four nephews something that makes a lot of noise in the house. And then at the next holiday, don't give a gift and see if anyone says anything, because I think I think her sister will be like, I'm just so glad it wasn't like another noisy thing that we had. 01:11:47 Speaker 3: To hear in the house, right, twelve trumpets or what have you. 01:11:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, something that plays music and loud noises until again. And then the next time it's sort of like, oh, I didn't bring anything. We're just like you know, Marie Condo. Give them the things that don't spark joy in your own home. Oh that's it. 01:12:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, just clear out. Use these increasing nephews as kind of a you know, just a clearing house. And every year they're getting a little bit more of the things you don't need. They can't say no, and then they it's their problem. It seems like you went out of your way. 01:12:21 Speaker 2: You didn't wrap them up nice and everything looks pretty good. It's like when you get a like a really small dessert in a fancy restaurant, but it's on a big plate and you put a little drizzle on it and it looks like you've got a really great dessert, but it really could be anything. 01:12:36 Speaker 3: This is the gift version of that. 01:12:38 Speaker 2: You wrap anything up nice enough, it sort of looks like, oh boy, okay, pretty good. Yeah. I think that's that should be more than enough options. I think we've again about eight or nine. Yeah. 01:12:48 Speaker 3: If Derek doesn't have an option, she can't zero in on one of those ideas. I think she's got to go to another podcast or just admit to herself that she's an awful aunt and that she's only going to become worse as the nieces and nephews increase. So maybe this is just a self acceptance moment for Terra. Yeah, which is also works. 01:13:10 Speaker 2: Life's hard, you know. 01:13:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever, whatever, Connor, we answered it perfectly, more than perfectly, beyond perfect, and here we are. I now have my quick fix kit, which will eventually, you know, could within the next few months, lead to some sort of serious life altering injury from me. Yeah, and uh, I mean we'll just have to see how it plays out. But it's nice that there is. 01:13:40 Speaker 2: Having to use it. 01:13:40 Speaker 3: You'll be named in the obituary or whatever we need. 01:13:45 Speaker 2: The Welly was not able to Welly was not enough. It was a minor for minor quick fixes. 01:13:51 Speaker 3: He tried to use it in June, and unfortunately that was not enough. I've had a wonderful time with you here. Oh it's been delight Thank you so much for being here and thank you for having me listener. Now it's time for you to close the door on another episode of this podcast and do whatever you want with the rest of your day. You know, maybe before starting the podcast you could think of a few things you want to do after the podcast, so you don't, you know, fly into this kind of panic that you always do when I end the episode. Just something to keep in mind for the future. I hope you have a nice rest of your day. I love you, goodbye. I Said No Gifts is an exactly right production. It's produced by our dear friend Analise Nelson and it's beautifully mixed by John Brandley. The theme song, of course, could only come from miracle Worker Amy Man. You must follow the show on Instagram at I Said No gifts. I don't want to hear any excuses. That's where you get to see pictures of all these gorgeous gifts I'm getting. And don't you want to see pictures of the gifts? 01:15:02 Speaker 1: Now? 01:15:03 Speaker 3: Make sure to listen, follow, and most important, they leave a heartfelt review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget. You can listen to new episodes one week early on Amazon Music or early and ad free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in the Wondery. 01:15:22 Speaker 1: App the lie invit did you hear funn a man? Myself perfectly clear? 01:15:33 Speaker 2: But you're a guest to me. 01:15:37 Speaker 1: You gotta come to me empty And I said, no, guest, your presences presence enough. I'm already too much stuff. 01:15:51 Speaker 2: So how do you dance? Survey me