WEBVTT - Episode 5 - The Good Cop 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.320 Probably about a month ago. I was looking for one 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.440 particular piece of information, so I started digging through. There 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.080 were actually the physical notepads from the investigators from way 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:14.200 back when in the eighties. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.200 Cold case Detective Danny Smith has been investigating the nineteen 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.439 eighty six murder of Billy Halburn and has left no 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.000 stone unturned. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:32.320 And I started looking through and there was one handwritten 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.159 note and it was small. It was two sentences, and 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:40.640 it said Officer Ellis advised that there was a suspicious 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.559 car and this is the description of the car. He 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.600 got the information from the tipster and Keith Ellis the 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.800 ls is my dad's. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:54.000 Name, Danny's father. He was a cop too, right here 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.680 in Miramar, Florid. What are the odds father and son 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.400 working the same case nearly forty years apart. 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.600 And he was in one of the notes of one 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.520 of the investigators. It blew my mind. And then as 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.920 the days went on, I just kept thinking about it, 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.560 and I was amazed that here I am working a 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.760 case thirty seven years later, that I'm going to see 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.959 my dad's name in some of the notes that he 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.200 theoretically had some information on the case. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:29.560 I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff, and 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.480 this is cold blooded. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.199 The Apollogym murders. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.880 Detective Danny Smith moved to South Florida when he was 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.319 a kid. But back then, it wasn't murder that was 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.160 on his mind. It was baseball. 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.400 So that was essentially my life. I would wake up 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.120 and I would think about baseball and making it to 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.080 the big leagues, and go to go to school, my work, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.680 and then I'd be at the ballfield until nine ten 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:06.320 o'clock at night, and then I just do it over 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:07.560 again the next day. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.639 By college, it was clear that Danny not only had 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.480 the talent to make it to the pros, he had 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.799 to drive that unrelenting desire to defy what can seem 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.880 like insurmountable odds. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.760 It is a grind. You just have to keep going 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.200 and going and going, and whenever you feel like you've 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.959 lost or it's not gonna happen for you, you just 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:33.760 gotta find something else. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.400 But Danny's dad was a cop, first right here at 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.120 Miramar and then at the Miami Dade Police Department, so 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.880 the poll to a career in law enforcement was always there, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:47.600 tugging at his sleeve. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.880 Nice first second third year of college, I started to 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.959 really give it some serious thought, and I figured, you 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.640 know what, let me give it a shot, and if 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.160 the big leagues don't work out for me, then I 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:01.160 got to have a fallback. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.359 So during his senior year in college, while staring down 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.160 pitchers and batting over four hundred, Danny put in a 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.320 few applications for a job in law enforcement. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.799 And then I got picked up after my senior year 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.480 of college to go play pro ball in upstate New York. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.680 So while I was up there, I ended up getting 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.040 a call from Nearmore Police saying that they were going 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.560 to hire me, and they wanted me to come down. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.640 The academy starts in two weeks, and at the time, 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.760 we were in our playoffs up there, so we finished 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.800 up our playoffs, I had to get released from my 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:42.360 contract to come straight down to South Florida, get fitted 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.240 for my academy uniforms, and I went straight to the 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:44.880 police adademy. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.360 In law enforcement, Danny saw the same kind of brotherhood 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.080 he did in baseball, the team work and the necessity 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.600 of knowing that you have someone else's back and they 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:58.200 have yours. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.320 Growing up, I always saw my dad around his police 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.880 officer friends, and it seemed like a family. It would 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.600 bring out a side of him that we didn't really 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.760 see in the house. I didn't quite understand it, especially 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:17.520 being so young. I didn't understand how he would tell 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.440 me that he's willing to get his life for somebody else. 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.560 It's life or death. And they beat that into you 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.480 in the academy, that this is the real deal and 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.000 you can go to work and not come home. And 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.480 I was happy to see everyone really take that seriously. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.680 When Danny decided to reopen the nearly forty year old 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.760 unsolved murder of Billy Halpern, he knew it would be 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.239 a long shot, but he loved the grind and he 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.320 wasn't afraid to swing for the fences. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.160 I was, and still am, very competitive, and I hate 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.159 to lose. I will do anything that I can to 0:04:58.200 --> 0:04:58.760 not lose. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.440 The fact that his own father had worked the same 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.320 case was not just a bit of cosmic kismet. It 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.520 was a personal connection to a crime that had cast 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.479 a dark cloud over this community for decades. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.599 It struck me that I wish that he was around, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.440 that I could talk to him about it and get 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.520 his idea of how impactful the case was to the 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.159 community and everything that was done for the investigation, that 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.200 he would be able to actually give me some inside information. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.039 Danny's father died in two thousand and five after three 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.800 decades in law enforcement. Watching Danny scribble notes in his notepad, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.599 I thought about how some cases can create a bond 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.000 between cops that spans. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.200 Not just years, but generations. 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.479 How sweet it would be to knock this one out 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.919 of the park and to win one for his old man. 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.760 There's the wife and there's him. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.080 He's there with the wife. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:36.599 Just hey, hello, Hey, Danny Smith, how are you. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.960 There were a lot of names in Billy's case file. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.279 Some were people that Miramar or Brad Sheriff's thought might 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.320 have knowledge of Billy's murder. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.080 Some were just friends of Billy's. 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.839 Or guys that hung around the beach or at the 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:57.640 Apollo Gym. As part of this investigation, Danny and I 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.400 both knew but have to track down as as many 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.200 of these names as possible, But getting them to talk 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.680 that was another story. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.720 So the reason that I'm reaching out to actually a 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.200 bunch of people. I'll probably give you a bunch of 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.480 names that are going to kind of come back to you. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.400 Danny was talking with someone that had grown up in 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.560 Hollywood Beach and knew both Billy and Laurie Halpern. His 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.240 hesitancy to talk made it clear to us that the 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.200 fear of reprisal from whoever killed Billy was still palpable, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.080 even forty years after his murder. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.880 Okay, we actually got a chance to speak to Laurie 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:45.200 and a couple other people, but as you can imagine. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:45.880 It's been a long time. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.720 We need to talk to as many people as possible. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.520 There's really no expiration on an investigation for homicide if 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:54.239 it's not solved. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.960 But he may also have had other reasons why he 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.040 was still hesitant to talk to police. According to the 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.760 case file, this guy sold his share of dope back 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.360 in the day and did some time in prison as 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.920 a result. But he also used to run with the 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.720 Apollo Jim crowd, so we had reasons to believe he 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.000 may have heard some things, maybe even seen some things. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.520 Just to give you an idea of how small this 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.400 world was, even now. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:24.280 Forty years later. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.880 The guy who opened the door was someone I have 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.960 known since I was a teenager. How his name ended 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:35.240 up in a homicide investigation. I had no idea. It's 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.400 something I had discussed with Danny before our visit. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.400 But let's be clear, the person on this list, according 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.760 to what you were telling me, is not just someone 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.200 who potentially is a witness, but somebody who potentially is 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:53.959 a suspecting bill it happens murder. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.120 Yeah, this person is mentioned in more reports overall in 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.760 the entire case file than any other person, with the 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.880 exception of our victim. He appears to have a lot 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:11.480 of relationship and inner workings and hanging out with almost 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.560 everyone else in this case file. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:19.040 After inviting Danny inside, the old friend of Billy's volunteered 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.840 what he remembered about his friend and some of the 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.960 players swirling around the scene back in the day, Starting 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.520 with Gil Fernandez, Well. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.280 Plain and simple, he said Gil was a nut. He 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.520 essentially just kept calling him the tuffis strongest guy in 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.640 the world, and no one would mess with Gil. And 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.679 that was pretty much his impression of Gil is that 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:44.760 nobody wanted to mess with. 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.319 He went on to recount the details of how he 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.120 had heard Billy was killed. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:56.840 He was the first of many rumored statements that I 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.520 got where he said that he heard that Billy was 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.280 taped to a chair and had his throat cut, and 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.320 he was given a Columbian necktie that he had his 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:08.960 tongue pulled through his neck. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:15.040 According to him, Billy's killers were sending a statement across 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.240 the boss and you're going to pay. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:24.199 Yeah. He was adamant that Billy was killed because whoever 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.800 killed him was trying to send a message to everyone 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.760 else in law. So the idea, I think was to 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.439 kill Billy but then make a spectacle of it to 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.480 ensure that the additional people that are in this group 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.200 wouldn't open their mouths because they would see the damage 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:41.080 that was done to Billy. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.760 For the record, Billy was not tied to a chair, 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.520 and while his throat was cut, his tongue was not removed. 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.640 These embellishments were strong evidence that this witness may be 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:59.760 working from more rumor than inside knowledge. But our goal 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.640 in interviewing witnesses thirty seven years after a crime was 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.679 not just to collect facts or illicit a spontaneous confession. 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.200 Mostly we were fishing for names with three unknown DNA 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.520 profiles pulled from Billy's crime scene and more potential suspects 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.560 to try to match the better. The first name to 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.319 come up Jimmy Heina. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.120 We're early on. Jimmy Hina was on the radar. We 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.120 know that Jimmy and Billy knew each other. And he 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:32.960 said he knew Jimmy, he knew him really well. He 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.600 said he was called him a redneck from out west. 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.920 He said he was a nice guy. They hung out, 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.199 the families hung out, they had lots to get togethers. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.160 But he said that Jimmy Heino was not someone who 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:47.160 was afraid of anything. 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.440 I Note was a known member of Gil's crew who 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.520 was found shot to death six months after Billy's murder. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.760 I asked him specifically if you thought that Jimmy Hina 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.720 was involved, and the answer I got was one. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.520 So far, what he was telling us tracked with what 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.120 we already knew. That Billy knew Gill and High Note 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.800 well enough to invite them both inside, no forced entry required, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.920 and that Billy was too big to be taken down 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:20.520 by just one person. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.960 He had mentioned over and over that Billy was just 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.680 essentially bigger than life. He said, he was bigger than 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.960 anyone around. No one could have pushed him around by themselves, 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.080 and it would have taken multiple people to hold him down. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:39.320 It's important to remember here that this witness's name was 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.640 listed in Billy's case file more than any other. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.520 He seemed to be the type of guy. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.040 Everyone knew, a central cog in the six Degrees of 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.960 Separation within the South Florida drug scene, but despite his 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:58.400 connections and his criminal history, he was never named as 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.960 a potential suspect Billy's murder. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.520 I think he's aware that he was in the report, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.360 and he was mentioned a lot, and I know that 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.839 he was spoken two years ago, but he couldn't tell 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.240 me why. He doesn't understand what his involvement is. He 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.679 liked to say that he's not a fighter. He's not 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.520 someone that would want to fight with any of these guys. 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.600 However, according to the case file, there was a tip 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.280 from an anonymous caller in the aftermath of Billy's murder 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.000 that seemed to suggest otherwise. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.080 Now, one of the reasons that he was really high 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.599 on my suspect lists or people that I wanted to 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.640 talk to, is because there was mentioned that he had 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.400 a cut on his hand just days after Billy's murder, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.280 and I really wanted to talk to him about that 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.280 cut because as we all know any violence done with 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:54.040 a sharp edged instrument, oftentimes the perpetrator or perpetrators are 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.440 going to have some kind of a cut. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.439 Unsurprisingly, he denied any memory of an inn injury to 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.120 his hand during the time of Billy's murder. And I 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.280 don't think Danny or I thought he was someone who 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.439 either had the motive or the temperament to be Billy's killer. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.040 But sometimes a little bit of pressure can trigger a 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.520 person's sense of self preservation. Darring loose new facts, rumors, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.120 and most importantly names. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.320 His first mention was Mike Carbone. He knew him, they 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.040 were friends, they hung out of the beach, but he 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.720 said he was a crazy guy. He was one of 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.600 those guys that nobody really, I don't think, wanted to 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.000 mess with, just because you just didn't know what he 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:38.360 would do. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.280 Michael Carbone was an associate of Gills from the Apollo Jim. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.080 He was also who turned state's witness against Gil Fernandez 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:52.000 and berg Christi in the Danger Road triple murders. From 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.680 what we had gathered, Carbone had exchanged his testimony for 0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:00.800 immunity at a spot in the witness relocation program. What 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.840 we had not heard was that he had any role 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:05.160 in Billy's murder. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.760 He feels that not only could he be involved, he 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.080 actually felt that he was involved. He didn't have any 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.360 information to back that up, but he feels pretty strongly 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.840 that Mike Carbone was in that count home with Billy. 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.840 It's a pretty big accusation, one that we only include 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.120 here with the caveat that this is all speculation, not 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:34.200 the conclusion of law enforcement. So was this witness just 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:39.400 repeating more rumors, maybe even deflecting suspicion away from himself, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.960 or was there any truth behind it. Mike Carbone had 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.720 admitted to state and federal prosecutors that he was present 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.880 at Gill's execution of three men in nineteen eighty three. 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.160 Wasn't it possible that he could have been also part 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.800 of a crew that ambushed Billy Halpern two years later? 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.440 Was it possible that it was his DNA on the 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:08.320 electrical tape found tied around Billy's wrists. If so, we 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.240 might be out of luck, because if Michael Carbone was 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:12.520 still in witness. 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:13.920 Protection, he was a ghost. 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.800 But what if Detective Danny Smith could find him. It 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.400 wasn't out of the realm of possibility. After all, some 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:29.040 ghosts just can't resist a trip home to their old haunts. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.640 All right, it's right there, yep, just walking ahead, Yep, 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.200 where the four by four is? 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:03.160 That's hey? How you doing man? Hey, Poppy? Yeah, I'm 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:03.840 not worried about it. 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.720 Here's the thing about witnesses, they don't always agree, which 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.880 is why when you think you're onto one theory, it's 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.320 best not to hold on too tight. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.560 My name is Danny Smith. I'm a detective memory police spartman. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.280 This is Scott Weinberger. It's gonna sound weird. No one's 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.159 in trouble. We're actually reopening an old case and your 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:26.840 name came up. 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.320 The man with the dog again, we're protecting his identity 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.080 here is not only familiar with Billy Halpern's murder, but 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.639 he ran in the same Apollo crowd and he was 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.000 just as skittish about talking to Danny. Danny decided to 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.359 float the name Michael Carbone and get his take on 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.719 the theory that he might have been involved in Billy's murder. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:57.080 He was adamant that Carbone is not a killer. He 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.439 said that he knew Carbone. He grew up with the 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.240 guy and he's known him for many, many years, and 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.359 he just flat out said he's not a killer. He 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.840 wouldn't kill he hurt someone like that. Now I had 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.960 to look at that, and with the understanding that he 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.280 was involved in that nineteen eighty three triple murder, So 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.240 I can't say that he wouldn't hurt anyone because he 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.040 was there. He was complicit in that. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.280 Asked what he thought about Carbone's role in Gill's crew, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.880 he described someone entirely different than the enforcer portrayed by 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:35.520 our previous witness. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.800 So he had said that Carbone was he was a 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:44.040 big guy, and being in big guy, I got the impression, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.600 at least from his body language, that Carbone's size may 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.560 have turned people from wanting to give a toe to 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.040 toe with him. But he really said Carbone was just, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.320 to use a different word, he was just a win. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.960 In other words, he thought Carbone was nothing more than 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:06.000 show muscled, although his participation in the Danger Road murders 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.639 belies that description. As for why so many members of 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.719 the Apollo wound up dead, his take was similar to 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:20.359 what many people had told us. Drugs, shakedowns and eliminating 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.800 potential informants. In his words, when you mess around with 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.040 the wrong people, shit happens. It was the kind of 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.280 South Florida fatalism that Danny and I had grown accustomed. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.080 Without physical evidence, the information shared by these witnesses was 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.120 still just conjecture, and the case no more solved than 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:46.360 it was thirty seven years ago. But Danny Smith had 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:52.440 something those investigators didn't have, DNA, and with three viable 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.840 but unknown male DNA profiles retrieved from the tape around 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.280 Billy's wrists, Danny knew it was high time to start 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.879 using that DNA to separate rumor from fact. 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.760 DNA. You know, we're at the point in time where 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.600 it's almost expected jurors when we go into court, they 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.520 expect DNA evidence to be on a case. 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:19.480 Christina Sovito is the daughter of scientist parents, so she 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.080 always thought she would be destined for a lab quote. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.359 But I'll say it shows like bones and CSI and 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:29.960 things like that. You know, they call it kind of 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.480 like the CSI effect. I always thought this was something 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:33.560 I kind of wanted to do. 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.199 Christina started her career in the Army before joining DNA 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:43.240 Labs International, a private laboratory in Deerfield Beach and. 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:48.240 The primary focus of the Armed Forces, identification is to 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:54.120 identify fallen soldiers, So my section primarily dealed with remains 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.040 from World War I, World War Two, the Korean and 0:20:58.080 --> 0:20:59.120 the Vietnam wars. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.520 Her mission was not just to identify unknown soldiers, but 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.399 to bring them home, and she brings that same dedication 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.760 to criminal forensics and over the last few months she 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.600 has become a full fledged member of the investigative team. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.160 The cold cases are very difficult because the DNA degrades 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.159 over time. We know it does because of exposure to 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.480 heat and time if it was exposed to emmy chemicals. 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.760 And by degrade, what I mean is break it down 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.760 into little pieces that keeps us from being able to 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:34.920 get a DNA profile. 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.879 But at state of the art labs like hers, sometimes 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.639 partial samples can be combined to make a whole, which 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.240 was what Detective Danny Smith decided to do with the 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.439 samples recovered from Billy Halpern's crime scene. 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.480 So we decided to combine the sample from that electrical 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.960 tape on the right wrist with the rubber glove sample 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.360 because of that amount of DNA on both samples, and 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:08.199 we combined that together and the resulting DNA profile was 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.119 a mixture of at least three individuals. 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.280 Identifying the owner of that DNA would require a one 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.119 to one match with a person who left it behind. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.800 So was halper and one of the contributors to those 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.480 three male profiles. 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.520 No, He ended up being excluded from this DNA. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:34.600 Profile, leaving our leading contenders to be High Note, Harry Collier, 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:40.960 Michael Crobone, and gil Fernandez. Carbone hadn't been seen in 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:46.200 nearly thirty five years, likely living under an assumed name 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.159 in the witness relocation program, and our chances of getting 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:55.239 a voluntary DNA sample from gil Fernandez slim to none, 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.119 but we were optimistic that DNA profiles or standards of 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:03.000 both Collier and High Note could be developed from blood 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.800 samples that were taken by the coroner at the time 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:12.520 of their autopsies on what cops call spot cards. Unfortunately, 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.480 that wasn't the case. As often happens with evidence this old, 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.520 the spot cards were likely improperly stored and the samples 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:25.680 were too degraded to detect DNA. Same goes for any 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.640 DNA that might have been under Billy Halpern's fingernails, which 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:31.640 were also swabbed and tested. 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:36.760 There may have been more DNA, you know, thirty years ago, 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.040 but that DNA may have degraded to the point where 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:41.240 we can't detect it now. 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.320 Then there was the evidence that Danny Smith had always 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:52.880 believed would be the case closer the coup de gras. 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.920 In the original crime scene report, it had been recorded 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.840 that several strands of hair had been found still clenched 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.920 in one of Billy's fists. It was reasonable to assume 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.960 that if there had been a struggle as Billy was 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.400 being bound, tortured, and ultimately killed, he may have grabbed 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.840 hold of one of his attacker's hair and come away 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:20.679 with what could be crucial DNA evidence. But in nineteen 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.760 eighty six, long before testing hair for DNA was possible, 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.560 that hair had been collected and sealed in an envelope 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:33.600 and stored in an evidence locker at the Briar Sheriff's office. 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:38.680 Hello, Hi, good, how are you? 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.919 I am here from Nearmore police down, Andy Broward. 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:46.000 I'm here off hand, careful not to corrupt the chain 0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:46.520 of evidence. 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:50.239 Danny had requested that sealed envelope and hand delivered it 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:52.480 to Christina to have it tested. 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:54.840 So if you rip out a piece of your hair. 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.199 You're going to see this white bulb on the end 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:00.480 of it. That's where the majority of the DNA in 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.560