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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: He saw the post on truth or whatever the truth

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Speaker 2: social from Donald Trump about the Jeff Duncan if you

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Speaker 2: don't know that name is the former lieutenant governor of Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Will bring everyone back up to date here, and he

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Speaker 2: had tweeted or xed that he was told to appear

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Speaker 2: Tuesday before at the grand jury. Donald Trump on truth quote,

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Speaker 2: I am reading reports that failed formal lieutenant governor of Georgia,

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Speaker 2: Jeff Duncan, will be testifying. He shouldn't. I barely knew him,

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Speaker 2: but he was right from the beginning of this witch

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Speaker 2: hunt a nasty disaster. Let's bring in Michael Zelden. I've

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Speaker 2: been looking forward to hearing from Michael ever since he

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Speaker 2: left the country. He's back with a former federal prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: former special counsel to Robert Muller while at the DOJ. Michael,

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Speaker 2: does that sound like witness tampering?

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Speaker 3: Well, everything that comes out of Donald Trump's in respect

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Speaker 3: of all of these cases is right up against the

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Speaker 3: line of witness tampering. I don't know whether anyone would

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Speaker 3: actually charge him with it. What'll be most interesting to

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Speaker 3: see is whether Judge Chutkin, the one who's handling the

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Speaker 3: January sixth cases, will sanction him, because she just cautioned

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Speaker 3: him yesterday the day before yesterday, to not make these

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Speaker 3: types of inflammatory statements, and then he turned around and

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Speaker 3: sort of thumbed his nose at her and made inflammatory statements.

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Speaker 3: And so we'll see what happens. But it is surely

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Speaker 3: something that he is purposely doing to try his case

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Speaker 3: in the media because his biggest problem as a defendant

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Speaker 3: is he cannot testify in trial because he cannot take

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Speaker 3: the stand, swear to tell the tooth and then tell

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Speaker 3: the truth. So he's got to do this in the

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Speaker 3: media because he's got no other forum by which he

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Speaker 3: will get his story out there.

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Speaker 4: Well, and you mentioned Judge Chutkin, who sided partially with

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Speaker 4: his defense marly with the prosecution in that protective order

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Speaker 4: last week, but she is not immune from his social

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Speaker 4: media kind of rampage. Honestly, in the last twelve hours either,

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Speaker 4: there's more than a dozen posts related to the different

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Speaker 4: legal cases against him. In one, he calls her a

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Speaker 4: highly partisan judge. She obviously wants me behind bars, very

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Speaker 4: biased and unfair. Does this make the prosecution's job easier

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Speaker 4: all of this and his defense attorney's job harder.

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Speaker 3: Well, it makes it harder for the defense attorney because

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Speaker 3: the defendant Trump, and that's what she called him. She

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Speaker 3: said he's a criminal defendant and he should be considered

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Speaker 3: nothing else. The lawyers said that yes, Trump would honor

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Speaker 3: the protective order, and of course the next day he didn't.

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Speaker 3: And so it makes it very difficult for the defense

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Speaker 3: lawyers who have maintained their credibility with the court and

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Speaker 3: essentially say I can't control my own client, and that

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Speaker 3: always puts them in a trick bag about whether they're

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Speaker 3: going to continue the representation. I don't think it makes

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Speaker 3: it any easier for the prosecutors because he's not talking

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Speaker 3: about the substance of the matter that will be at trial.

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Speaker 3: It's really more the optics that he's talking about. It

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Speaker 3: proves the point to those who want to believe that

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Speaker 3: he's a lunatic out of control, and it proves the

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Speaker 3: point that he has a First Amendment right that he's

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Speaker 3: entiled to make and so it's really just sort of neutral.

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Speaker 3: You know, Paul Simon saying once that a man hears

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Speaker 3: what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, And

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Speaker 3: so people are hearing what they want to hear and

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Speaker 3: disregarding the rest. In respect of this, I could.

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Speaker 2: Say that about so many different things in politics right now, Michael.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the reporting is centered around a possible

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Speaker 2: rico charge or charge as I wonder if you feel

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Speaker 2: that coming and in this case, if you can talk

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Speaker 2: to our listeners about what that would mean, because based

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Speaker 2: on what I have learned about this, Donald Trump may

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Speaker 2: not actually have to be directly connected to what was

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Speaker 2: going on as long as the organ is he was

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Speaker 2: at the top of is implicated here.

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Speaker 1: How do you see it?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: So, the Georgia rico law is a little bit different

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Speaker 3: than the federal rico law. And federal rico law. You

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Speaker 3: think about a mafia organization with a copo and then

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Speaker 3: people underneath, and the coppo doesn't have to actually have

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Speaker 3: his hands touching anything as long as he is part

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Speaker 3: of that enterprise structure. In Georgia, it's really like a conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: Plus some people have called it conspiracy on steroids, And

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Speaker 3: what it requires, principally is that there be a conspiracy,

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Speaker 3: which is an agreement by two or more people to

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Speaker 3: commit an unlawful act and then some act in furtherance

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Speaker 3: of it. The RICO says, if there are multiple crimes

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Speaker 3: that are all related toward the end of the same end,

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Speaker 3: then that meets RICO. And so in this case, I

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Speaker 3: think what you'll have here is a conspiracy essentially of

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Speaker 3: multiple defendants with an aim which was undertaken by the

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Speaker 3: commission of various crimes, and that'll be the state reco charge.

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Speaker 3: So really it looked like a federal conspiracy charge similar

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Speaker 3: to what we saw in January sixth. These guys agreed

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Speaker 3: Trump and his unindicted co conspiracy in that case to

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Speaker 3: interfere with the orderly transfer power by committing the following

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Speaker 3: four crimes. I think that's what we'll sort of see

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Speaker 3: in Georgia. And the advantage of that to a prosecutor

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Speaker 3: is that they get to tell a story. They can say,

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Speaker 3: on this date, our story begins, and here is what

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Speaker 3: happened throughout the middle course of it, and this is

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Speaker 3: how it all ended. And that is a crime and

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Speaker 3: that's called state rico, and we asked you to convict.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So, in terms of the timeline for a case

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Speaker 4: like this, especially given the reporting we have seen that

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Speaker 4: more than a dozen people ultimately could be charged here,

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Speaker 4: and considering the facts that, as we've reiterated time and again,

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Speaker 4: this would be the force indictment of the former president

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Speaker 4: just one of the many legal trials he could be

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Speaker 4: facing down. Would the timeline look like here going forward

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Speaker 4: once charges theoretically are brought.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question, and we don't know the answer. Normally,

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Speaker 3: the more charges and the greater number of defendants means

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Speaker 3: the longer into the future the trial date is. People

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Speaker 3: speculate that that's the reason that Smith charged only Trump

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Speaker 3: in the January sixth case, to keep it streamlined. I

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Speaker 3: don't know how long things will take in Georgia, but

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Speaker 3: I would expect this could be Unless there's some expedited

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Speaker 3: process here, this could be the very last case to

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Speaker 3: go forward and probably go after the January sixth federal case,

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Speaker 3: if the judge holds true and has a trial on

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Speaker 3: January second, as the prosecutors have requested.

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Speaker 2: Spending time with Michael Zelden, the former federal prosecutors been

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Speaker 2: awfully helpful through all of Donald Trump's legal affairs with

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Speaker 2: us here on Bloomberg as we consider what happens to

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Speaker 2: the co conspirators unidentified, of course, co conspirators like Rudy Giuliani,

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Speaker 2: Sidney Powell, those names who have become connected to this effort. Michael,

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Speaker 2: I wonder your thoughts on this CNN story that prosecutors

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta are now in possession of texts and emails

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Speaker 2: that directly connect members of Donald Trump's legal circle to

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Speaker 2: the early January twenty twenty one voting system breach in

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Speaker 2: Coffee County. I bring it up because the Secretary of State,

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Speaker 2: Brad Raffensberger, actually replaced machines in that county and I

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Speaker 2: asked him about that following the dominion settlement.

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Speaker 5: Here's what he said.

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Speaker 6: It was corrupted by election official and county election director.

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Speaker 6: That was a violation of state law. And I'm really

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Speaker 6: big right now being investigated by our state election board.

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Speaker 6: So there's a deep dive into that, and so we

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Speaker 6: want to replace the mission means we don't believe that

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Speaker 6: anything happened, but if anything did happen, we wanted to

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Speaker 6: pull those machines, get them off, you know, take them

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Speaker 6: out of the field and bring and put it brand

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Speaker 6: new machines, So no one could question what the results

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Speaker 6: would be in Coffee County. But like I said, that's

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Speaker 6: an ongoing investigation. State Election Board has that and they

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Speaker 6: will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the.

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Speaker 2: Law, to the fullest extent of the law. Michael, that

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Speaker 2: was back in April when that dominion settlement happened. In

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Speaker 2: our remaining moment here, how important will evidence like these

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Speaker 2: texts and emails be to connecting the Trump legal team,

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Speaker 2: that entire group of people to this effort.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's significant in one major respect, which

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Speaker 3: is Donald Trump has argued that all of his calls

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Speaker 3: to Rathenberger and Governor Camp and others was a first

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Speaker 3: man and protected free speech that he's allowed to call

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Speaker 3: whoever he wants to call. In this case, this is

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Speaker 3: an action. So if he's authorized an illegal access to

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Speaker 3: a computer, on authorize access to computers is a crime

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Speaker 3: in Georgia, that's not speech any longer. That's action, and

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Speaker 3: action is always criminalized. And so this is a difference

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Speaker 3: between speech and action, and there is no First Amendment defense,

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Speaker 3: So it is significant if they can tie it back

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Speaker 3: to Trump.

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Speaker 2: Michael, it's great to have you back. Michael Zelden, former

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Speaker 2: federal prosecutor with US on Sound On with Kaylee Lines

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Speaker 2: in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: The headline on the terminal. The US has adequate funding

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Speaker 2: for the response. In Maui. I'm Joe Matthew along with

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Speaker 2: Kaylee Lines in Washington. And it's been a big question here, Kayley.

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Speaker 2: As the President spent time, well more time in rehob

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Speaker 2: with on vacation, and reporters couldn't get an answer out

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Speaker 2: of him. When he took a bike ride yesterday, they

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Speaker 2: of course wanted to talk about this thing in Hawaii.

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Speaker 5: Can you come talk about can you come talk about Mawi?

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Speaker 6: President?

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Speaker 2: And he kept on right another point in Rehobe with

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Speaker 2: reporters are yelling at him. I believe our own Justin

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Speaker 2: Sink was one of them and got a no comment yes,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to thoughts and prayers or something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very interesting and interesting tone shift as well from

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Speaker 4: the White House today in the aftermath, the President tweeting

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Speaker 4: a multipart thread about the response, saying his prayers are

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Speaker 4: with those impacted. Every asset we have will be available

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Speaker 4: to them. So it seems like kind of a course

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Speaker 4: correction here.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps I guess that's true, And it brings us to

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Speaker 2: the matter of funding for this. There's going to be

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Speaker 2: an ask if it hasn't already been made for supplemental

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Speaker 2: funding for FEMA for dealing with obviously the fallout here

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Speaker 2: in Congress that was already struggling to figure out funding

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Speaker 2: for a government whose fiscal year ends in a month

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Speaker 2: and a half or something, joining us to talk about

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Speaker 2: it as our expert our appropriations. Kind enough to spend

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Speaker 2: time in this chair for us last week, the great

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Speaker 2: Jack Fitzpatrick Bloomberg, Government Congress supporter, Thanks for spending time

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Speaker 2: with our listeners last week.

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Speaker 5: Jack.

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Speaker 2: It's good to see you. You must be dying for

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Speaker 2: lawmakers to come back to work. Yeah, but you don't

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Speaker 2: really have to wait. There's this conference call tonight that's

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Speaker 2: probably gonna get a little chippy, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: They have been trying to figure out lawmakers, especially in

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Speaker 7: the House, where they stand on emergency funding, Ukraine funding,

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Speaker 7: avoiding a shutdown during the August recess. It's a little

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Speaker 7: hard for us to report out when they're not here

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Speaker 7: walking in the hallways. But there will be a conference

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Speaker 7: call tonight for House Republicans to discuss funding the government,

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Speaker 7: and a key part of that is this request for

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Speaker 7: additional money forty billion dollars total for Ukraine and related

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Speaker 7: needs and also for FEMA, because FEMA needed money anyway,

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Speaker 7: they were getting low in their disaster relief fund budget.

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Speaker 7: It may be the case that they need to discuss

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Speaker 7: more funding. Eventually, they absolutely will have to discuss more

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Speaker 7: funding for the longer term rebuilding process in Hawaii, because

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Speaker 7: FEMA isn't the one that rebuilds homes. They're the emergency response.

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Speaker 7: But the House Republicans are still sort of in the

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Speaker 7: process of figuring out what are our demands, what are

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Speaker 7: the conservative demands? Can you attach supplemental emergency funds to

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Speaker 7: a stop gap to avoid a shut down, they still

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Speaker 7: have a lot of pretty fundamental questions to answer on

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Speaker 7: their own position.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I would imagine the emergency fund as well

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Speaker 4: as the funding for border in migration, which also was

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Speaker 4: included in that supplemental request, or a lot easier for

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Speaker 4: the Republican Party to swallow than perhaps Ukraine a specifically,

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Speaker 4: which is the bulk of what was requested.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that makes sense, and you would think so. I

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Speaker 7: would point out though that there was a statement led

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Speaker 7: by Warren Davidson from some Freedom Caucus members that was

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Speaker 7: pretty much a blanket negative statement about the request, and

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Speaker 7: it didn't distinguish saying we support disaster aid that portion,

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Speaker 7: but not Ukraine. So there might be some work to

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Speaker 7: get people on board, because this also is in the

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Speaker 7: broader context of that debt limit deal where they set

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Speaker 7: limits on spending and.

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Speaker 4: No one wants to stick to Yes, No, very.

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Speaker 7: Few people want to stick to it. Traditionally, you'd have

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Speaker 7: wildfires or if there's a bad hurricane, lawmakers would say

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Speaker 7: that's exempt from the cap, we don't need to offset it.

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Speaker 7: But even last week we heard the likes of french Hill,

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Speaker 7: who's not some Freedom Caucus members say, if you want

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Speaker 7: supplemental funding, you're probably going to have to offset it. So, yes,

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Speaker 7: Ukraine is a tougher sell to the ultra concervatives than

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Speaker 7: wildfire relief. But they haven't really shown a willingness to

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Speaker 7: go with the President's proposal on any of this yet.

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Speaker 2: Bringing back to the first of June, I'm guessing Jack

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Speaker 2: was standing there, Senator Lindsay Graham.

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Speaker 8: I'm talking to the President Zelenski at one o'clock today.

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Speaker 8: He's confused. I want him to know that this budget

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Speaker 8: deal does not take off the table the ability to

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Speaker 8: help you train with their liberation efforts, that there will

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Speaker 8: be more money coming through a supplemental I want our

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Speaker 8: own military to hear that there's a chance to repair

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Speaker 8: some of the damage.

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Speaker 2: This is when the outrage first, the freak out first

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Speaker 2: happened when it became clear than in this debt ceiling

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Speaker 2: deal that was looming that there would not be as

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Speaker 2: much money for the Pentagon as expected. And so then

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Speaker 2: I guess there was another side deal in the Senate

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Speaker 2: around that Jack that brought us to this situation. We're

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Speaker 2: in here where the Senate the House are both playing

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Speaker 2: off different sheet music.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Senate and House Republicans have as many differences on

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Speaker 7: spending almost as House Republicans and House Democrats. Lindsey Graham

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Speaker 7: has been very very vocal right from the start that

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Speaker 7: emergency funds should be used to provide more defense spending

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Speaker 7: than under this framework in the debt limit deal, not

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Speaker 7: even just if something unforeseen happens with Ukraine that there

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Speaker 7: should just be more money. So Graham also himself has

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Speaker 7: said directly to me, I think when we need a stopgap,

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Speaker 7: which we obviously will need to get past September thirtieth,

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Speaker 7: we need to tack on Ukraine funding disaster aid. He's

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Speaker 7: also said, and this wasn't addressed directly in the request

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Speaker 7: food aid Global food Aid, because that's still sort of

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Speaker 7: a tangential Ukraine Russia issue and he wants more funding

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Speaker 7: for that. So you're getting a push from some Senate

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Speaker 7: Republicans and Susan Collins is on board with it to

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Speaker 7: add money, and they are fighting with the House Conservative

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Speaker 7: Freedom Caucus members about as much as the Democrats are fighting.

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Speaker 2: But that would come on that would come as part

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Speaker 2: of the cr though, is what you're suggesting. If there

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Speaker 2: is one, All this would be attached separate from the

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Speaker 2: actual budget for the next fiscal year.

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Speaker 7: Right, that is the idea from the likes of Lindsey Graham.

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Speaker 7: I think that's one unanswered question is does everything go

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Speaker 7: together if you can get some of the Freedom Caucus

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Speaker 7: members to say okay to disaster aid, and then that

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Speaker 7: actually can ease the path to avoiding a shutdown and

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Speaker 7: getting the continuing resolution, and you separately then negotiate Ukraine

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Speaker 7: funding that has not been ruled out yet. This is

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Speaker 7: what we call packaging and sequencing. And yes, it's very

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Speaker 7: inside baseball, but it's important to how they're gonna try

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Speaker 7: to avoid a shutdown.

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Speaker 4: At the end of this conversation, Kali, Yeah, I just

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Speaker 4: wonder what the real likelihood is that they successfully avoid

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Speaker 4: a shutdown, because I've had people tell me. Congressman Seth Molton,

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Speaker 4: for example, said there is a quiet understanding that the

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Speaker 4: government is going to shut down, right.

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Speaker 7: Poet, Yeah, there is definitely a threat of a shutdown

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Speaker 7: October first. It also is a real threat for when

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Speaker 7: you get toward January first, if they get a stopgap

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Speaker 7: deal and keep the ball rolling past September thirtieth, that

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Speaker 7: does not mean they're out of the woods. There's that

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Speaker 7: threat of the automatic one percent if they're using a

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Speaker 7: continuing resolution after the end of December. I don't know

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Speaker 7: when the greatest threat of a shutdown is, but when

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Speaker 7: you see the huge gap between the different parties, including

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Speaker 7: Senate and House Republicans, nothing looks great and it absolutely

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Speaker 7: is a possibility that it falls apart at the end

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Speaker 7: of September.

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Speaker 2: That's why Libby Cansfell was saying January one is the

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Speaker 2: real deadline here that Jack, that would be fifteen days

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Speaker 2: before Iowa.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, it'll all heat up with a lot of

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Speaker 7: I guess, a harsher political spotlight as people get on

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Speaker 7: the campaign trail, as the specter of the presidential race

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Speaker 7: becomes more clear, it can be tougher and tougher to

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Speaker 7: actually strike deals. And that's what happens every other year

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Speaker 7: as you get closer to the election. Nobody wants to

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Speaker 7: take a bad deal.

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Speaker 4: So I know you'll be listening to this conference call

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Speaker 4: at six pm. What tangible signs of progress should we

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Speaker 4: be looking for between now and actually weeks from now

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Speaker 4: when the House returns to Capitol Hill. How much work

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Speaker 4: really is going to be done even though they are

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Speaker 4: still technically in recess.

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Speaker 7: If the House Republicans can come up with a clear

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Speaker 7: plan to hold more votes, because they tried to start

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Speaker 7: holding votes just on their own bills, and they had

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Speaker 7: one and then they the second kind of fell apart.

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Speaker 7: If they can have a clear agreement among themselves to

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Speaker 7: get the Conservatives on board, and that's the kind of

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Speaker 7: thing they're going to be talking about at this conference call,

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Speaker 7: that would be a better sign than if things really

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Speaker 7: melt down. So really, the progress that you could see

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Speaker 7: in August is if House Republicans come up with a

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Speaker 7: more specific and concrete plan for how they want to

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Speaker 7: move forward, rather than bickering between the Conservatives and the

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Speaker 7: leadership and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Got it.

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Speaker 2: Call later starts at six o'clock, That is.

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Speaker 7: What we've heard. This will not be a public call,

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Speaker 7: so we'll see what people tell us.

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Speaker 4: Everybody is going to conference. Oh can you imagine the

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Speaker 4: zoom chaos?

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Speaker 2: No, don't at all.

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Speaker 4: It's going to proceed.

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Speaker 2: But would you please mute yourself a congressman, you're not

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Speaker 2: on mute Jack, Great to see you, Thanks for coming in.

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Speaker 2: Jack Fitzpatrick Bloomberg, Government Congress reporter. With a little bit

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Speaker 2: of sense of what's coming. You can let the quiet

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Speaker 2: August pass you by, but there's a lot on the

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Speaker 2: way in September.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us

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Speaker 1: Live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listening on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I got to talk of contagion today and over the

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Speaker 2: weekend with some tough news economically from China, Kayley, that

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Speaker 2: has a lot of folks wondering that, you know, this

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Speaker 2: new call of a soft landing might be changing again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The the thing is, this is the second largest economy

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Speaker 4: we're talking about. Even though it feels like it's a

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Speaker 4: world away. The US and China are inextrictably linked economically, right,

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Speaker 4: heavily reliant on China as a trade partner, and as

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Speaker 4: China goes kind of the global economy may go as well,

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Speaker 4: given its importance for all those reasons. So when you

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Speaker 4: see things like they're dealing with deflation, having issues with trade,

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Speaker 4: the property sector very much in turmoil, a lot of

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Speaker 4: concern around credit. To your point about potential contagion, it's

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Speaker 4: not necessarily encouraging headlines for market participants.

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Speaker 2: No far from, which is why we thought the column

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Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg Opinion by Andreas Kluth was important. It's

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Speaker 2: time for a pause in US hysteria about China. I

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Speaker 2: love a contrarian view, and I'm not sure this actually

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Speaker 2: is one, but what we've been hearing in the echo

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Speaker 2: chamber here inside the Beltway would suggest that because both

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Speaker 2: Democrats and Republicans can't seem to run fast enough from

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Speaker 2: Beijing right now, or run fast enough toward Taiwan.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, or just kind of adopting the hawkish toward China narrative.

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Speaker 4: In general, it feels like everyone has to do that

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Speaker 4: President Biden, including like we saw at his donor event

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Speaker 4: in Utah last week in which he said China's economy

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Speaker 4: was a quote ticking time bomb.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Andreas joins us right now in studio here in Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. By the way, welcome to Washington. We're delighted

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Speaker 2: to have you here in the bureau. As you write,

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Speaker 2: prudent d risking one of our favorite terms.

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Speaker 1: As well.

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Speaker 2: We went through the risking, the coupling, I can't remember.

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Speaker 2: The rest must stay proportional and targeted. What would define

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Speaker 2: that if you were advising the administration.

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Speaker 9: What would define that as Actually, for example, what they

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Speaker 9: did last week before Joe Biden lost it at that fundraiser.

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Speaker 9: I think that was the day after or something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 9: but before that, they took a very you know, in

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Speaker 9: the tussle between the Treasury and the Department of Defense.

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Speaker 9: It seemed that the Treasury went out in that one

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Speaker 9: and for a pragmatic modern and measured a proportionate but

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Speaker 9: still hawk as you approach, which which was that they're

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Speaker 9: going to have limits on American investments in Chinese companies

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Speaker 9: that are involved in quantum computing, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 9: And that makes sense because those are the things you

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Speaker 9: might need in the next war. And if it comes

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Speaker 9: to that over Taiwan or the South Tennessee, no one's

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Speaker 9: no one here or certainly not me and no and

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Speaker 9: I know it is suggesting to to to not prepare

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Speaker 9: for that scenario, but to go beyond that and talk

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Speaker 9: of not de risking the term you just used, but

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Speaker 9: the decoupling, and especially to make that a bidding war

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Speaker 9: in the in the upcoming election season in both parties,

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Speaker 9: but especially on the Republican side, to Santas and is dangerous.

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Speaker 9: It's just also stupid. It's not in America's interests. It's

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Speaker 9: it's not traditional American foreign policy. We wouldn't want to

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Speaker 9: impoverage one point four billion people. First of all, we

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Speaker 9: wouldn't want a humanliate them. Also, that's their narrative anyway,

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Speaker 9: and also we want them to keep buying our stuff.

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Speaker 9: We just want to prepare to win a war if

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Speaker 9: it comes to that.

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Speaker 4: Well, and so to your point about everyone going to

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Speaker 4: the hawkst direction, that's the hysteria to what you refer

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Speaker 4: in this piece. On your point about this executive order

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Speaker 4: from last week being very narrow in scope, the rhetoric

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Speaker 4: from the administration around that has been this is about

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Speaker 4: national security interests. We are not trying to hold China

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Speaker 4: back economically. They've repeatedly said this. And yet the point

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Speaker 4: you're making is that the US may not have anything

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Speaker 4: to do with holding China back economically. That may just

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Speaker 4: be happening independent of what we do.

440
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 9: Well, that's the sort of cheeky Mark Twainyan kind of or.

441
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 9: And in this case, there's a Napoleon allegedly said, never

442
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 9: interrupt your enemy if he's making a mistake, and a

443
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 9: thesis that a lot of people here are also talking

444
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 9: about because you might consider contrauring is by Adam Posen

445
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 9: of the Peterson Institute of Economics, who's saying, you know,

446
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 9: as you just pointed out, Kayley, China has been surprising

447
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 9: us all year with negative news. When we thought, after

448
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 9: the zero COVID policy, after the drop, that it might

449
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 9: get positive, they're in fact becoming negative. And Adam Posen

450
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 9: is saying, well, this is long term, and we haven't

451
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 9: understood how negative this is going to get. Why because

452
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 9: Chi Jinping reverted to communist or authoritarian type and started

453
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 9: fiddling arbitrarily with draconian, abrupt, whimsical, capricious measures in the

454
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 9: economy and has freaked out his own population so that

455
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 9: they're saving or the equivalent of hoarding and not investing

456
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 9: or spending anymore. So productivity, they have a democraphic problem,

457
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 9: they have these other problems. But they're saying, if we're

458
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 9: projecting less than five percent growth from next year, it's

459
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 9: going to be a lot worse than that. So it

460
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 9: could be that the Chinese have just sabotaged their own economy.

461
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 9: Why would we try to do a more of it

462
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 9: just because there's an election season and then be and

463
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 9: then look like the bad guys. We don't need to

464
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 9: do that. We could maybe start talking cooperatively with them

465
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 9: about some other things.

466
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: Okay, so we've referred to the U I guess hot

467
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: mic moment that the President had at the fundraiser in

468
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: Utah last week. He called China's economic situation a ticking

469
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: time bomb?

470
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 5: Is he right?

471
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 9: Well, the Adam Posen theory or the theory that I'm

472
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 9: interested in now and that I agree with, is that

473
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 9: it's not so much a ticking time bomb, but this

474
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 9: sort of I don't know what it's a slow and

475
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 9: gradual metaphor. I need like a like we thought this

476
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 9: was a rise and rise and rise story and that's

477
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 9: how they painted it. Since thanks shaping, it's in fact

478
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 9: of a rise and rise and now reversion to the mean.

479
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 9: They have an aging population. This may may not go anywhere.

480
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 9: What you're saying with the spillover I guess to talk

481
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 9: today is is this going to be Asian crisis two

482
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 9: point zero?

483
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 5: Yes?

484
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 9: I covered Asian chrisis one point out of Hong Kong.

485
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 9: I don't think that's going to happen because they have

486
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 9: control over their exchange rate and things like that. But

487
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 9: that could happen and that would be really bad news

488
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 9: for all of us. So we don't want that. We

489
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 9: just don't want them to get so big that they

490
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 9: can fund Belton Road initiatives in Africa and Asia and

491
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 9: displace us. That's all we do, I would say.

492
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 4: Okay, So just to kind of wrap things up here,

493
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 4: as you were alluding to, we need to tread carefully

494
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: so that you can focus on areas of cooperation with China.

495
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 4: I'm thinking things like climate change, for example. Really, given

496
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 4: how tense this relationship is and when you have potentially

497
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 4: incendiary rhetoric coming from the President of the United States,

498
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: what actually is your degree of optimism that that cooperation

499
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 4: can happen when we're just starting to even really talk

500
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 4: to each other again.

501
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 9: It's more optimistic than you would think. That the President

502
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 9: lost it a little bit because even though it's true,

503
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 9: I think he called them terrible guys, bad guys, something

504
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 9: like that, which is objectively true, it's just not the

505
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 9: president's job to say that. You leave that to Kaylee,

506
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 9: Joe and me.

507
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it will be clear about that.

508
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 9: But the people who have in recent years really, I mean,

509
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 9: since Trump really done the damage? Is she jinping? And

510
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 9: with something that you may know is called wolf warrior diplomacy.

511
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 9: It's sort of a bad film, atrociously, it's like Rambo

512
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 9: for Chinese people, with the roles reversed. And so he's

513
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 9: told every all the diplomats be a wolf warriors and

514
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 9: kiss everybody off. And that has to stop.

515
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you just moved here from Germany. Welcome to Washington.

516
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: Thank you, don't be a stranger. We both want you

517
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: to come back off. I want you to do that.

518
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: Andreas Klouf, how about it? Everybody, This is Bloomberg.

519
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

520
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

521
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot com.

522
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 5: And the Bloomberg Business App.

523
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

524
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven

525
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: thirty A.

526
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: Six tweet thread six by my count here by President

527
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: Biden today. Not exactly the most prolific on Twitter, even

528
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: though I'm supposed to call it X Is that an

529
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: ex thread?

530
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 5: Now? I can't.

531
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: But it's all about Hawaii. The President says every asset

532
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: we have will be available to victims of the fires

533
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: in the tweet threads as the Federal Emergency Management Agency

534
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: is offering temporary shelter assistants, encouraging people to apply for help.

535
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: And this follows. At least one good opportunity over the

536
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: weekend to talk about it would have been the bike

537
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: ride in Delaware. Can you come talk about Mali? Can

538
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: come talk about they got a wave?

539
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: There? He goes.

540
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: The big bike ride on Sunday was nice out, but

541
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: it of course led to a whole round of criticism

542
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 2: about what's the president got better to do here than

543
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: deal with the situation in Hawaii? Is warm? People are

544
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: exposed to the visuals horrifying visuals from this fire in Lehina,

545
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: and the President is taken to Twitter to talk about

546
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: it on a week by the way, that was set

547
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: to celebrate the first anniversary of the IRA, not your IRA,

548
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: the Inflation Reduction Act. Incidentally, the first response as I

549
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: look on Twitter X it was a five tweet thread,

550
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: I was wrong. The first response that I see need

551
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: to rename Hawaii to Ukraine. Then Biden will shower it

552
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: with money. We reassembled our panel, Genie Schanzano.

553
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 5: And Rick Davis.

554
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: I'm glad to say are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors.

555
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: Is this fair? Genie? Did he miss an opportunity?

556
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 10: He did miss an opportunity, and you know, Justin asked

557
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 10: him the right question to say, you know, give a

558
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 10: no comment to that. I was wondering did he not

559
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 10: hear the question? Did he misunderstand it? Because this is

560
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 10: like politics one oh one. You're the president of the

561
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 10: United States, what about you know, we're thinking of everybody suffering.

562
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 10: We have you know, sent aid already because the reality

563
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 10: is both the governor and the Senator thank the president

564
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 10: for acting so quickly. Six hours he declared a presidential declaration.

565
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 10: That's really really fast. They were thrilled by that. He

566
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 10: you know, that is the right approach, But a no

567
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 10: comment sounds tone deaf and all I can imagine it

568
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 10: is not the empathetic Joe Biden we've grown to know

569
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 10: and love, and so you know, maybe he misunderstood or

570
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 10: didn't hear it, but yeah, he missed an opportunity and

571
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 10: they tried to go back on X and fix it.

572
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 10: But he's got to say it in his own words.

573
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: Uh, I guess we are really calling it x now.

574
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: This moment, here's just a couple of seconds long, was

575
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: tweeted by the r n C. This is another moment

576
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: at Rehoboth Beach. Well, you can talk about the Hawaires

577
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: podcast the president no comment was the answer. Why no comment? Rick,

578
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: I surely you would not have advised him to say that.

579
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: What should he have said?

580
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, don't they.

581
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 11: Give presidents a brief that says hear how to not

582
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 11: screw up something like Katrina. I mean George Bush said

583
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 11: the state, good job, Brownie, And so you would think

584
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 11: that in a natural disaster, as Genie said, you know,

585
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 11: our empathetic commander in chief would say something with his

586
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 11: heart goes out to the people of Hawaii to the

587
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 11: horrible loss. I mean, there are a hundred things he

588
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 11: could have said other than no comment, which is now

589
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 11: being compared to what he said when they also caught

590
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 11: him by surprise during the East Palestine toxic contamination when

591
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 11: he said no comment there. So President no comment is

592
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 11: not going to be what people want to hear from him.

593
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 11: So his staff needs to really understand that there's no

594
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 11: such thing about being on vacation when you're president. Of the

595
00:31:59,200 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 11: United States.

596
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: So what should he do, Jeanie, he can't fly over it.

597
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: We're both referring here to Katrina here and good job brownie.

598
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: Former President George W. Bush do in the flyover he

599
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 2: was heavily criticized for. This is eleven hours away. What

600
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: does Joe Biden do?

601
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 10: He should be expressing concern and a commitment on the

602
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 10: part of the federal government to do everything to help

603
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 10: the people who are suffering there. We are looking at

604
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 10: what fifteen hundred people still missing, almost one hundred passed

605
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 10: away at this point. The devastation is traumatic. It's the

606
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 10: worst firefighter firefighter fire rather that we've had, and he

607
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 10: needs to express that he and his administration are on

608
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 10: top of it. The resources are there or coming, and

609
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 10: most importantly for him, his heart goes out to the

610
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 10: people suffering. You hardly have to be president or a

611
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 10: politician to say I'm very sorry and I am praying

612
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 10: for in thinking of everybody impacted. Empathy is what he

613
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 10: needs to express, and he needs to do it in

614
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 10: his own words, and then he can say he will

615
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 10: visit when the time is right and he's not interfering

616
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 10: with their ability to help you rescue people who may

617
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 10: still be have an opportunity to be rescued and to

618
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 10: help people out.

619
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: And again, meantime, this is the administration is hoping to

620
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: talk this week about the first anniversary of the IRA,

621
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: which is seeming less possible because of all of this.

622
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: Then you turn on Sunday morning television and you've got

623
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: a Democrat from Saint Paul from Minnesota urging the president

624
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: not to run for reelection. Here's Congressman Dean Phillips.

625
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 12: People want to turn the page. I think that's fair

626
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 12: to say. As a Democrat, I adore Jobiden. He saved

627
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 12: this country. He can cement his legacy. My real call

628
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 12: to action right now is not about me. The call

629
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 12: to action is to ask the president to pass the torch.

630
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: That's clearly not in the works, Rick, at least that

631
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: we're aware of. If your publicly, Roger Stone, I guess

632
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 2: would tell you otherwise. But how does the president manage

633
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: calls like this?

634
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 11: Well, largely he'll ignore it. They'll be a cavalcade of

635
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 11: Democratic office holders and power brokers who call this this

636
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 11: poor guy up and wood shed him. And it does

637
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 11: come actually at a pretty sensitive time in his sort

638
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 11: of emergent presidential campaign. But I would say too, one

639
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 11: of the things that's going to come up with this

640
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 11: fire situation in Hawaii is that he's asked for a

641
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 11: supplemental which increases FEMA substantially to handle these kinds of disasters.

642
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 11: And when that hits the floor, he better be prepared

643
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 11: much better than he was this weekend to make a

644
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 11: very clear pitch for this, because that you don't want

645
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 11: the natural disaster assistance overshadowing or succumbing to a problem

646
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 11: when you also have your Ukraine assistance attached to it.

647
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 11: So he's he's going to have to have a campaign

648
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 11: around that, and it's and it's going to have to

649
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 11: be very public and very forceful.

650
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about this a lot or next hour,

651
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: these supplemental budget requests, but it does make you wonder

652
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: what we're heading for when lawmakers return to town, although,

653
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: as we'll learn a little bit later on in the program,

654
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: they're not waiting. There's an important conference call tonight the

655
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 2: Republican leadership to talk about these budget matters. We'll get there.

656
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 2: Rick and Jeannie with some final thoughts next as another

657
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: Republican candidate leaves a mark in Iowa. By wrapping this

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Speaker 2: is Bloomberg, you're.

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Speaker 1: Listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune

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Speaker 1: in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 5: And the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Carbon whole narrative. Last week on the Republican campaign trail

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Speaker 2: was a surgeon vivek Ramaswama. All right, maybe not surging,

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Speaker 2: but his numbers were up finished fourth in the New

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Speaker 2: York Times Siena poll in Iowa, specifically setting him up

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Speaker 2: for what could have been the biggest moment of his campaign,

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Speaker 2: wrapping eminem on the soapbox at the Iowa State Fair.

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Speaker 2: Listen to them get into this. That's they love it.

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Speaker 2: They can't get enough of it. Kayley Lines is even dancing.

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Speaker 2: And it brings us back to this whole question Rick really,

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Speaker 2: I can't know. Rick is not a fan Genie. I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing that you are. It brings us down to the

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Speaker 2: question though, of likability. We heard about this with Ron DeSantis, right.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump's more quote unquote fun. How do you manage

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Speaker 2: that part of a campaign?

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Speaker 11: Rick, Well, uh, I think it's managing itself. I mean,

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Speaker 11: we're witnessing the future of national politics. The fact has

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Speaker 11: hit the stage, our first millennial candidate for the GOP

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Speaker 11: for national office. And look, he's super smart, he's telegenic.

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Speaker 11: He's doing a great job as a candidate. But I'm

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Speaker 11: going to take some getting used to when I see

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Speaker 11: a presidential candidate start to wrap.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing you're not gonna tell Joe Biden to do this, Genie,

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Speaker 2: maybe you will. All I know is the woman standing

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Speaker 2: behind Vivek there at the fair worker looked very wary

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Speaker 2: about what's going on.

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Speaker 10: I would pay Joe Biden to do this. Bite your tongue, Joe, please.

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Speaker 10: And I'm very confused because the rhyme from college was

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Speaker 10: deveake rhymes with cake, but we say the vex. So

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Speaker 10: I wish he would clarify this. He did this in college,

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Speaker 10: he's doing it again. I just have to remind him.

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Speaker 10: This is from two thousand and two, so the young

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Speaker 10: kids in my class, this is sort of before they

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Speaker 10: were born or cognizance. So he's gonna have to move

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Speaker 10: it up a bit, even the millennial of vivike Ramaswami

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Speaker 10: a little bit behind the times.

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Speaker 2: The vake I'm psych I have so much to learn still,

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Speaker 2: So it's basically like he was singing Glenn tunes up

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Speaker 2: there is what you're saying, Genie. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 2: Rick and Jennie, our signature panel, the best in the business.

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Speaker 9: We thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to The Sound on podcast. Make sure

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Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and

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Speaker 2: Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com