Speaker 1: During that eight and a half minutes, the acceleration force
Speaker 1: changes quite a bit, where at three gs, so it
Speaker 1: feels like someone that weighs three times as much as
Speaker 1: you is sitting on your chest. And then at eight
Speaker 1: and a half minutes into the fight, the engine's cut
Speaker 1: off and you're in zero gravity and it's a very
Speaker 1: traumatic transition, you know, where all of a sudden things
Speaker 1: start floating up and including your your arms. It's just
Speaker 1: very dramatic. At that point, that's former astronaut Dr Ellen Ochoa,
Speaker 1: who became the first Latina in space. She's describing the
Speaker 1: intense feelings of liftoff and it's a moment she knows
Speaker 1: well from both sides of the console because Dr Ochoa
Speaker 1: also served as director of NASA's Johnson's Space Center. I'm
Speaker 1: a land ververe In. This is Seneca's Women. You here.
Speaker 1: We are bringing you one hundred of the world's most
Speaker 1: inspiring and history making women. You need to hear. Dr
Speaker 1: Ochoa's love of science has taken her to the heights literally,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't always an easy trip. When she was
Speaker 1: a girl, there were no women astronauts to model herself after,
Speaker 1: and when she was in college pursuing advanced degrees. Some
Speaker 1: professors openly tried to discourage her from that path. She persevered,
Speaker 1: of course, and went on to become the first Hispanic
Speaker 1: person to run the Johnson Space Center, the hub of
Speaker 1: America's human space flight program. Listen and learn White. Dr
Speaker 1: Ellen Ochoa is one of Seneca's one hundred women to hear.
Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled to be here today with Dr Ellen Ochoa.
Speaker 1: She was the first Latina in space. She's flown four
Speaker 1: times hims in space and logged over a thousand hours
Speaker 1: in orbit. What a record, Dr Ochoa. It's such a
Speaker 1: pleasure to have you with us. Dr Choa, you became
Speaker 1: the first Latina astronaut in You spent nine days aboard
Speaker 1: the Space Shuttle Discovery, which we all remember so well.
Speaker 1: And I've often wondered watching a lift off, being as
Speaker 1: nervous in the countdown as probably anybody watching. What's it like?
Speaker 1: What's it like to lift off? What's the experience like
Speaker 1: in space? I would imagine your training tries to prepare
Speaker 1: you for just about any eventuality, And I wonder when
Speaker 1: you were orbiting did anything surprise you on your voyages? Well,
Speaker 1: you're right, it is just an amazing experience, really different
Speaker 1: than anything else. And the launch itself, which is just
Speaker 1: the first eight and a half minutes of the flight,
Speaker 1: is something that we spent a lot of time training
Speaker 1: for because it's so dynamic, and that is a period
Speaker 1: of time when a lot of things might go wrong
Speaker 1: and we have to be prepared for it. Um during
Speaker 1: that eight and a half minutes, the acceleration force changes
Speaker 1: quite a bit. Um For probably about two and a
Speaker 1: half minutes of it, we're at three gs, so it
Speaker 1: feels like someone that weighs three times as much as
Speaker 1: you is sitting on your chest, So it can make
Speaker 1: a little bit hard to breathe, or a little bit
Speaker 1: hard to reach up if you had had to move
Speaker 1: a switch or something like that. But even the first
Speaker 1: two and a half minutes, the solid rocket motors are
Speaker 1: firing and they have quite a bit of vibration, and
Speaker 1: so then when they separate away, not only does that
Speaker 1: vibration go away, but you go back down to just
Speaker 1: a little over one g. At that point, and I
Speaker 1: remember that it felt like we had just stopped, which
Speaker 1: seemed like a really bad thing in the middle of
Speaker 1: a launch, but it was really just all that sation
Speaker 1: of acceleration and the vibration went away, and then the
Speaker 1: liquid engines on the orbiter itself kept us running um
Speaker 1: and accelerated its back up to three g's again and
Speaker 1: then um. At eight and a half minutes into the flight,
Speaker 1: the engines cut off and you're in zero gravity and
Speaker 1: it's a very traumatic, uh transition, you know, where all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, things start floating up and
Speaker 1: including your your arms and uh so, uh it's just
Speaker 1: a very dramatic at that point. And then you you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to do, but you settle in. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that you know was obviously, uh,
Speaker 1: the impetus for me really wanting to do this was
Speaker 1: because we were up there to do things that benefited
Speaker 1: people on Earth. On my first two flights, we were
Speaker 1: studying the Earth's atmosphere and particularly the issue of ozone
Speaker 1: hole and the ozone depletion, and I was in charge
Speaker 1: of the science experiments on my shift, and then my
Speaker 1: third and fourth flights were part of building the International
Speaker 1: Space Station, which is this amazing laboratory in space. We've
Speaker 1: had astronauts and cause of anots up there continuously for
Speaker 1: over twenty years now involved in We've done actually thousands
Speaker 1: of different kinds of science and technology, development, research and activities,
Speaker 1: and over a hundred countries have been involved in some way.
Speaker 1: So really just an amazing project to be part of.
Speaker 1: The two big things that, of course, are are really
Speaker 1: so different are the fact that you're working in a
Speaker 1: zero gravity environment or as we call it, micro gravity
Speaker 1: because it's maybe not quite zero, but you know, for
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, you know, you're floating the whole time.
Speaker 1: Everything that you're dealing with that isn't you know, strapped
Speaker 1: down is floating as well, so you just have to
Speaker 1: get used to it. Some things are easier, things are harder. Obviously,
Speaker 1: moving a heavy piece of equipment is a lot easier,
Speaker 1: uh in space when it's floating as well. Um, but
Speaker 1: you really have to keep track of everything that you're
Speaker 1: working with so it doesn't float away and get lost.
Speaker 1: And then the second big thing is is just the
Speaker 1: view of the Earth, which is just incredible. We orbit
Speaker 1: the Earth every hour and a half, so you're seeing,
Speaker 1: you know, all parts of the globe over and over again,
Speaker 1: both in daylight and nighttime, and over my four flights
Speaker 1: I got to see it in different seasons as well,
Speaker 1: and I just never get tired of that. Oh, I
Speaker 1: can just imagine in your description is so vivid when
Speaker 1: you look down and see planet Earth. Do you have
Speaker 1: that sense of how small and vulnerable we are and
Speaker 1: how precious our planet is to be taken care of.
Speaker 1: So I would on my first flight in particular, I
Speaker 1: mentioned we were studying the Earth's atmosphere, and we actually
Speaker 1: needed to be up on the flight deck and videotape
Speaker 1: every sunrise and every sunset. And this was part of
Speaker 1: a science experiment, uh that was actually using the sun
Speaker 1: during these points in time to as a light source
Speaker 1: to measure constituents in the atmosphere. So I would look
Speaker 1: out and I would see this very very thin atmosphere,
Speaker 1: you know, across the limb of the Earth, and just
Speaker 1: thinking about how that was the only thing keeping us alive.
Speaker 1: If we didn't have that atmosphere, none of us would
Speaker 1: be there on Earth. And it really did make life
Speaker 1: seem fragile um and very precious. And of course as
Speaker 1: you look down on the Earth, you you know, we
Speaker 1: crossed the United States in ten minutes um. You just
Speaker 1: you don't see the kinds of boundaries and divisions that
Speaker 1: humans have artificially put up all over the Earth, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't make you feel much more in tune with
Speaker 1: the planet as a whole. Absolutely, that's such a beautiful
Speaker 1: reflection and something, um, I think so profound for all
Speaker 1: of us to try and grasp and understand. Let's start
Speaker 1: from the beginning. When did you know you wanted to
Speaker 1: become an astronaut? Was there something in your childhood or
Speaker 1: upbringing that made you want to pursue a career in space. Well,
Speaker 1: I was eleven when the Apollo eleven astronauts landed on
Speaker 1: the Moon, and of course I was following along. I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole country was actually really the whole world. It
Speaker 1: was such an amazing accomplishment. But you know, there were
Speaker 1: no women astronauts at the time, and um, really, any
Speaker 1: time you heard about NASA at all, you you really
Speaker 1: didn't see any women or really any minorities. Um and
Speaker 1: I just it never occurred to me at that time,
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't occurred to anybody else to ask an
Speaker 1: eleven year old girl if that was something she wanted
Speaker 1: to grow up and do. So I certainly wasn't headed
Speaker 1: forward at that time. I uh, in high school, probably
Speaker 1: my favorite subjects were music and my literature classes, but
Speaker 1: also math. I always liked math and did well. And
Speaker 1: as I went to college, I hadn't quite decided what
Speaker 1: I wanted to do, but I continued in music and
Speaker 1: I continued in math. And it was really the math
Speaker 1: that took me towards the science, because I wanted to
Speaker 1: understand how you use that math, you know, in practical
Speaker 1: ways to to to solve problems, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just of course, even still, there were very few women
Speaker 1: in math, science and engineering fields, and I ended up
Speaker 1: talking to a couple of professors. I was going to
Speaker 1: San Diego State Universities was our local university, and living
Speaker 1: at home, and uh, I talked to a professor in
Speaker 1: the electrical engineering department and just told him I was
Speaker 1: interested in finding out more about the subject and you know,
Speaker 1: thinking of trying to head more in a technical field
Speaker 1: like that. And he was clearly not interested in having
Speaker 1: me in his department. Uh. He said, you know, well,
Speaker 1: we had a women come through here once, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a really difficult course of study, and
Speaker 1: I just really don't know that it's something that you'd
Speaker 1: be interested in, which was ironic because I had set
Speaker 1: up the meeting to find out more about it. But
Speaker 1: you know, fortunately I got quite a different reception from
Speaker 1: the physics professor that I talked to. He he seemed
Speaker 1: excited that I was interested in learning about physics. He
Speaker 1: told me about various different careers that people could have
Speaker 1: when they studied physics, which was hugely important to me
Speaker 1: because I didn't know any scientists or engineers, and I
Speaker 1: really couldn't picture on my own what you did with
Speaker 1: a physics degree. And and then he said, well, tell
Speaker 1: me a little bit about your math background. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm finishing up the Calculus series now, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I have the top grade in the class. And he said, well,
Speaker 1: that's fantastic because that's the lang page of physics, and
Speaker 1: if you started into the physics series next semester, you'd
Speaker 1: be able to concentrate on the concepts because you already
Speaker 1: know the language and most of the students in the
Speaker 1: class will be learning them. Simultaneously said I think you
Speaker 1: do really well. And uh, you know, I often tell
Speaker 1: that story when I'm talking to students and others, first
Speaker 1: of all, to impress on them how important what you
Speaker 1: say to people. UM. And then also to just note,
Speaker 1: you know, the times that I have been discouraged in
Speaker 1: my life are generally from people who don't know me
Speaker 1: at all, right, they don't know what I can bring
Speaker 1: hard work, intelligence, you know, dedication interest. UM. Whereas the
Speaker 1: people that have encouraged me in general throughout my life, UM,
Speaker 1: starting with my mom, but certainly with a lot of
Speaker 1: teachers and professors and supervisors. UM. You know, they got
Speaker 1: to know me, and they were encouraging me and even
Speaker 1: pushing me at times when I was necessarily even thinking
Speaker 1: of the next step. So, UM, you've got to find
Speaker 1: those people that that support you and that know you
Speaker 1: and understand the important qualities um, that you can bring. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and what an important lesson even to convey to those
Speaker 1: who are in a position. You know. I keep thinking
Speaker 1: of what Professor put down must have been like for
Speaker 1: you listening to him and UM, so discouraging. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then how wonderful your physics professor had a different, very
Speaker 1: helpful view. Were there any particular obstacles that you had
Speaker 1: to overcome besides what you mentioned about some people not
Speaker 1: being particularly encouraging. Were there other barriers in your path
Speaker 1: that made it a difficult way to go forward. Well,
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately at every step I did have people
Speaker 1: that supported me. But of course I I continue to
Speaker 1: run into people who, you know, it just didn't see
Speaker 1: me someone like me as a scientist or engineer. UM.
Speaker 1: I know, for example, I went off to Stanford for
Speaker 1: graduate school and there was a particular professor I was
Speaker 1: interested in working with, and I did end up becoming
Speaker 1: his graduate student, UM, joining his research group, and he
Speaker 1: was fantastic um Dr Joe Goodman, and to this day
Speaker 1: I'm in touch with him, and I also had a
Speaker 1: wonderful associate advisor. UM. But just to get into the
Speaker 1: PhD program, you have to pass the test um to
Speaker 1: be admitted into the program. And the way it was
Speaker 1: done in the Electrical Engineering department at Stanford was each
Speaker 1: student had ten different UM sessions one on one with
Speaker 1: ten different professors, twelve minutes each, and those professors could
Speaker 1: ask any question they wanted. UM. But it's it's a
Speaker 1: format that I'm sure as we all look back now, UM,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a terrible or matt if particularly if
Speaker 1: you're trying to address either unconscious bias or in this case,
Speaker 1: conscious bias. Because a friend of mine. UM. The week
Speaker 1: before this test heard one of the professors in the
Speaker 1: department telling another one, well, I've never passed a woman
Speaker 1: on this test, and I never will. They don't belong
Speaker 1: in our department. And when you're one on one, nothing written,
Speaker 1: it's all oral. You might write something on a whiteboard,
Speaker 1: but then it gets erased at the end of your session.
Speaker 1: It's pretty easy, um, you know, for someone to mark
Speaker 1: whatever score that they want and uh, you know, there's
Speaker 1: no way to contest or back that up. Um. Fortunately
Speaker 1: this professor wasn't one of the one once that one
Speaker 1: of the ones that I talked to. Uh, but it
Speaker 1: made me, It just startled me, and it made me think, well,
Speaker 1: how many professors that I might talk to during this
Speaker 1: test might have the same view. I just uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it just really caught me off it although I probably
Speaker 1: should have realized that, certainly there were people that thought that.
Speaker 1: But in any case, I did get through that test,
Speaker 1: and as I said, I was really fortunate to have
Speaker 1: great advisors who helped me along the way. UM. But
Speaker 1: I will say, you know, just getting a PhD Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a test of perseverance. Uh. And so certainly there
Speaker 1: were times along the way when my research wasn't going
Speaker 1: very well, and I I would think, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: there's something easier that I could do where where I
Speaker 1: maybe um more assured of actually graduating and getting an
Speaker 1: advanced degree. But I stuck with it, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: had opportunities then in uh national labs and in a
Speaker 1: nasive research position before I was selected as an astronaut.
Speaker 1: And I would probably just say the main obstacle there
Speaker 1: was that thousands of other people who were applying as well.
Speaker 1: I you know, when I decided to apply, um, I
Speaker 1: just thought, well, there's no way NASA is ever going
Speaker 1: to find my application amongst the thousands that come in,
Speaker 1: But you know, I'll go ahead and do it anyway,
Speaker 1: just to say that I did well. Perseverance clearly paid off.
Speaker 1: And obviously you're not just pioneering in the field, but
Speaker 1: someone who has enormous talent, skills and abilities to have
Speaker 1: gotten through all of those gauntlets. Because clearly, just listening
Speaker 1: to you, lesser folks may have bailed out a lot earlier,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's it's really rather herculean to overcome
Speaker 1: some of that senecas one hundred women to hear will
Speaker 1: be back after the short break. Now, you were the
Speaker 1: first Hispanic director and second female director at NASA's Johnson
Speaker 1: Space Center, which we all hear so much about such
Speaker 1: a famous place. What did that involve? It seems like
Speaker 1: that too must have been just an enormous challenge. Did
Speaker 1: you come in with a vision for the space center
Speaker 1: or how did your work there evolve? It was a
Speaker 1: challenge but also a huge privilege because we just have
Speaker 1: this amazing team at Johnson's Space Center. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the home of human space flight for the country. Um Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I just remember the first time I ever
Speaker 1: stepped foot on Johnson Space Center, which was the first
Speaker 1: time I got to interview for the astronaut program, and
Speaker 1: it just almost felt like hallowed ground, right because of
Speaker 1: of the history there. Uh. So, you know, I think
Speaker 1: for any leader, um, you know, you have two main goals.
Speaker 1: Accomplished the mission and take care of your people, and
Speaker 1: you have to do that in the context of what
Speaker 1: is going on at the time that you're director. And
Speaker 1: so um I became director very end of the beginning
Speaker 1: of We've finished assembling the International Space Station. So in
Speaker 1: that realm our challenge was to essentially make it as
Speaker 1: productive as possible while keeping it safe for our astronauts,
Speaker 1: and really focus on, you know, how much science and
Speaker 1: technology that we could accomplish, what we could get into space,
Speaker 1: what we could test and um, and really ramping up
Speaker 1: in that way. Um. But I would say that the
Speaker 1: biggest context was there were all these new players in
Speaker 1: human space flight, right Um. We had SpaceX developing some capabilities,
Speaker 1: and there were a number of other companies working on
Speaker 1: some capabilities, including Blue Origin, and so we really had
Speaker 1: to think about how do we evolve so that we
Speaker 1: have our role which will be unique going forward in
Speaker 1: human space flight, and we're able to accommodate these new
Speaker 1: partners and sort of you know, marry up the best
Speaker 1: of all of these partners so that we can move
Speaker 1: forward with the exploration of space. And eventually we knew
Speaker 1: that really lower thorbit would would probably be essentially the
Speaker 1: purview of commercial companies as NASA push forward into space
Speaker 1: to the lunar vicinity and onto Mars. So a lot
Speaker 1: of it was I started up essentially a change management
Speaker 1: initiative called it j C two point oh um. But
Speaker 1: it was important to think of it that way because
Speaker 1: it wasn't about, you know, throwing out all the experience
Speaker 1: that we gained. It was about building on it and
Speaker 1: also embracing new ways of doing business. So a big
Speaker 1: part of what I tried to do was work with
Speaker 1: my management team, but also really with every single person
Speaker 1: that worked at the Johnson Space Center about you know,
Speaker 1: how do we uh incorporate new technology, some of which
Speaker 1: we developed, but a lot of which may be developed
Speaker 1: outside our boundaries. How do we develop new partnerships, How
Speaker 1: do we incorporate new ways of thinking into how we
Speaker 1: do our business so that ten years from now, twenty
Speaker 1: years from now, we're still leading human space flight, but
Speaker 1: we have this amazing group of partners that we are
Speaker 1: working in concert with, And so that was really what
Speaker 1: I focused on during my time as director. I know
Speaker 1: that you're also a very forceful advocate for getting more
Speaker 1: Latinas into STEM fields. It seems like forever we're talking
Speaker 1: about the need for more girls and women to embrace
Speaker 1: the STEM fields. Why is this so important important to you?
Speaker 1: And do women bring anything special to the field, to
Speaker 1: science and to tech. Well, I think it's important to
Speaker 1: not just to be personally, but to NASA, to the country,
Speaker 1: to get people into STEM who have traditionally been a
Speaker 1: very underrepresented So that would include women, but it includes
Speaker 1: a lot of underrepresented groups as well. Um you know, uh, Latinos, Blacks,
Speaker 1: members of some of the indigenous groups. Um, they you know,
Speaker 1: you just don't didn't and still don't to the extent
Speaker 1: anywhere near the extent to which they exist in our population.
Speaker 1: See them going into Stamfield. So we're missing out because
Speaker 1: you know, talent is everywhere across all demographics and all
Speaker 1: geographic regions. Talent is everywhere. Um. As director of Johnson
Speaker 1: Space Center, I want to attract the best minds and
Speaker 1: we're not going to be doing that if we're sort
Speaker 1: of limited, um in in who we are reaching out to,
Speaker 1: who we're bringing in, and then who were developing once
Speaker 1: they come in. And of course there's been lots of
Speaker 1: research over the last particularly last couple of decades or
Speaker 1: so about when you have people with a diversity of
Speaker 1: backgrounds and experiences and thought assesses, um, particularly as you're
Speaker 1: trying to solve problems or think about new ways of
Speaker 1: doing things. You're going to have better results when you
Speaker 1: when you do have a diverse team. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure that we took advantage of that and
Speaker 1: that we did have diverse teams because we certainly have
Speaker 1: lots of incredibly interesting and difficult challenges when you think
Speaker 1: about human spaceflight, and of course for my own experience, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, I know how it feels to sort of
Speaker 1: be discounted or ignored, um, you know, talked over in meetings.
Speaker 1: So a lot of my focus as well was just
Speaker 1: uh working on making our environment at Johnson Space and
Speaker 1: Er even more inclusive where everybody, no matter who they were,
Speaker 1: would feel respected and feel valued, UM, I would feel
Speaker 1: open to bringing their ideas, speaking up, asking questions. And
Speaker 1: this wasn't only important for innovation and for solving problems,
Speaker 1: but it's incredibly important for safety, as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: because we're trying to keep people safe every moment of
Speaker 1: every day who are living in a very remote and
Speaker 1: hazardous environment. And if someone doesn't feel like they're going
Speaker 1: to be listened to, we may miss out on a comment, um,
Speaker 1: some information, a question that could directly affect the safety
Speaker 1: of our astronauts or our space assets. So really imperative
Speaker 1: that we have a very welcoming environment at Johnson Space Center.
Speaker 1: You know, it's always struck me watching the news when
Speaker 1: there's been a breakthrough or something happens in space just
Speaker 1: as it was planned too. There seems to be an
Speaker 1: amazing spree decre when the camera flashes on the Johnson
Speaker 1: Space set. It just it has always struck me as
Speaker 1: people involved together collegially in pulling off something remarkable. You know,
Speaker 1: That's one of the things I loved about working at
Speaker 1: NASA and and of course specifically at Johnson Space Center
Speaker 1: was we are a team and and we have a
Speaker 1: joint mission, and people are so dedicated to that mission. Um,
Speaker 1: they work hard. Uh, you know, they will do whatever
Speaker 1: it takes to help make that mission successful. And you know,
Speaker 1: then we when we do accomplish things, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we get to celebrate together. And a big part of
Speaker 1: really what I wanted to do is make sure that
Speaker 1: every single person um at Johnson Space Center could could
Speaker 1: take pride and could celebrate in those successes. And you know,
Speaker 1: often you see people in mission control and of course
Speaker 1: they're they're sort of often the ones that sort of
Speaker 1: at the tip of the sphere along with the crew
Speaker 1: in making that happen. But you know, I wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure that our folks who worked in the UM
Speaker 1: financial office, and and in the procurement office, and in
Speaker 1: human resources, and there are legal offices realize how important
Speaker 1: their roles were as well. You need all of that
Speaker 1: to be successful. And that was one of the things
Speaker 1: I enjoyed most about being Center director was you know,
Speaker 1: really seeing how all the parts come together to make
Speaker 1: it happen and such a profound lesson really important. You know,
Speaker 1: you've been talking some about the diversity advantage and in
Speaker 1: your own life, as you have already talked about women
Speaker 1: were barred from becoming astronauts. Certainly when you saw the
Speaker 1: landing on the Moon that was the case. But NASA
Speaker 1: now was talking about putting the first woman on the moon.
Speaker 1: Is that true? And have we made enough progress in
Speaker 1: this realm? What is what what's left to be done? Well?
Speaker 1: Certainly during the thirty years I was at NASA, there
Speaker 1: was a lot of progress in terms of women, UM
Speaker 1: and uh AT definitely some in terms of other represented
Speaker 1: groups as well. UM. I will have to say my
Speaker 1: very first job at NASA, which was as a research
Speaker 1: engineer a couple of years before I was selected as
Speaker 1: an astronaut. Even in that position I saw more women
Speaker 1: than I had seen in my previous job, or in
Speaker 1: graduate school or even in undergrad because of the fields
Speaker 1: that I was in. So NASA had already started, um,
Speaker 1: sort of making an effort to attract and employ a
Speaker 1: diversity of people, maybe earlier than a lot of companies
Speaker 1: had done at that time. And NASA continued to make
Speaker 1: progress during the third years that I was there, so UM.
Speaker 1: In fact, one of my astronaut classmates, a Lean Collins,
Speaker 1: was the first woman to command a Space Shuttle mission.
Speaker 1: And then of course we saw women commanding the International
Speaker 1: Space Station and at Johnson Space Center, not only being
Speaker 1: flight directors, but the chief of the Flight Director office
Speaker 1: right now as a woman. UM. And during my tenure,
Speaker 1: the head of our the director of Engineering, which is
Speaker 1: the largest group that we have at Johnson Space Center,
Speaker 1: very very talented women engineer. UM. We there's a couple
Speaker 1: of other centers now that have women center directors and
Speaker 1: UM and in fact, right now the head of all
Speaker 1: of Human Spacefline at NASA, which is a position at
Speaker 1: NASA Headquarters, is headed by a woman for the first time.
Speaker 1: So so you're you're you know, you're seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of progress in many areas but uh, you know, you
Speaker 1: still don't see women in in the stem workforce to
Speaker 1: the extent that they exist in the population. And the
Speaker 1: fact that you kind of need to talk about we're
Speaker 1: going to put the first woman on the moon or
Speaker 1: we have the first space walk with two women, um,
Speaker 1: just shows that we're still building up to that point
Speaker 1: where it's no longer a first, where it's routine and
Speaker 1: women are contributing in the same way as men, you know,
Speaker 1: And we all long for the days when this conversation
Speaker 1: about being the first is no longer necessary and we
Speaker 1: are all in this together in the same way, in
Speaker 1: a level playing field. But it does matter so much,
Speaker 1: particularly to aspiring girls and women, to see somebody doing
Speaker 1: these things. Who is you know, a woman, because if
Speaker 1: you don't see it, you don't think it's possible. And
Speaker 1: you've broken ground in so many ways, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: provided so much inspiration. We're almost out of time, and
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you. This has been a
Speaker 1: difficult time for our country, for the world in many ways,
Speaker 1: but especially given the pandemic and the toll it's taken.
Speaker 1: I wonder, in times like these, what gives you hope?
Speaker 1: You've had such an extraordinary career that continues obviously, But
Speaker 1: are there reflections about what keeps you going and what
Speaker 1: gives you hope even in times that may not be
Speaker 1: the most auspicious. Oh. Absolutely. UM. You know, maybe I'll
Speaker 1: just mention a couple the way, uh, we were able
Speaker 1: to develop a vaccine so quickly, and that built on
Speaker 1: decades of research, you know, into actually how to replicate
Speaker 1: genetic material, and how you can understand the genetic code
Speaker 1: of a new virus, and how you can actually develop
Speaker 1: a vaccine in a new and different way than we
Speaker 1: ever had before with this messenger our name. And it's
Speaker 1: a godsend. And I'm so thrilled and thankful to be
Speaker 1: fully vaccinated at this point. UM. And the other thing
Speaker 1: I'll mention is I'll go back to space, which is
Speaker 1: over the last year. UM. Some of the most exciting
Speaker 1: moments for me have been seeing some of the milestones
Speaker 1: in space. UM, some of which I got to work
Speaker 1: on when I was still at NASA. For example, UM,
Speaker 1: the Crew Dragon vehicle by SpaceX taking NASA astronauts to
Speaker 1: and from the International Space Station. UM, that was a
Speaker 1: service that we were working towards. Uh. Certainly the whole
Speaker 1: time I was at Johnson Space Center. UM, and moving forward,
Speaker 1: going back to the Moon with the Artemis program. You
Speaker 1: already talked a little bit about it. The one that's
Speaker 1: going to be putting the first woman on the Moon.
Speaker 1: Has been making various different milestones over the last year,
Speaker 1: including UM a big firing of all the all the
Speaker 1: test firing of all the engines U just in the
Speaker 1: last month or two, and then of course in space
Speaker 1: science with Mars Perseverance UH launched and then landed on
Speaker 1: on Mars, and just more recently the lights of the
Speaker 1: helicopter Ingenuity. UM. Those were all UH approved and in
Speaker 1: work when I was still at NASA and in meetings
Speaker 1: at NASA headquarters, and to see them actually happened and
Speaker 1: be so successful and so exciting, and really so many
Speaker 1: people following along, I've just loved that. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I think we could go on talking for
Speaker 1: much of the day because it's so illuminating to listen
Speaker 1: to you. It's inspiring, it's informative. I feel like, certainly
Speaker 1: speaking for myself, but I'm sure for many of our listeners,
Speaker 1: we feel like we had a ride into space with you,
Speaker 1: and that's something truly special. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: what you have done for our country and what you've achieved,
Speaker 1: and for the profound reflections you've left with us today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you. It's a pleasure talking
Speaker 1: with you today. Talk about aiming high and making it.
Speaker 1: Here are three things I took away from that conversation. First,
Speaker 1: for any of us to succeed, we need to surround
Speaker 1: ourselves with people who believe in us. While some of
Speaker 1: Dr od show US college professors tried to discourage her
Speaker 1: from pursuit of the sciences, others acted as guides and mentors.
Speaker 1: As Dr Chowa says, you've got to find those people
Speaker 1: who support you and that understand the important qualities you
Speaker 1: bring to the table. Second, as we've heard before, diversity
Speaker 1: is crucial to progress. Diversity enhances innovation and problem solving,
Speaker 1: but it's also a question of safety, says Dr Choa.
Speaker 1: When you're working to keep astronauts safe in a hazardous environment,
Speaker 1: she says, you need to ensure that all vital information
Speaker 1: from all voices is heard. Finally, let's take hope from
Speaker 1: the progress that's been made in bringing women into the
Speaker 1: sciences and into the space program, and let's look forward
Speaker 1: to that day in the not too distant future, when
Speaker 1: we'll see the first woman on the moon. Tune in
Speaker 1: next time to hear about our next featured woman and
Speaker 1: discover why she's one of Seneca's one hundred Women to Year.
Speaker 1: Seneca's one hundred Women To Hear is a collaboration between
Speaker 1: the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with
Speaker 1: support from founding partner PNG. Have a Great Day,