WEBVTT - Rob Baker & Johnny Fay 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.680 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob left Hid the podcast. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.160 My guests today are Johnny Fay and Bob Baker of 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:22.400 Tragically Hit, who have a new four part documentary on 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:23.959 Amazon Prime. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.720 Gentlemen, what do you think of the documentary? 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.240 I think Mike Downey did a fantastic job. He's Gord 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:38.080 Downey's older brother. We've known him since since they first 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.080 moved to Kingston, our hometown. They all showed up at 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.760 our high school one year and we, you know, we 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.400 became friends with Paul and Gored became best buddies right away, 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.480 and Mike Downey was in our year and we've known 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.279 him a long time. He knows all the ins and 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.480 outs of the band and wasn't afraid to go to 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:04.959 the the dark places, the more unexplored places. But I 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.800 think he did it in a very fair and balanced 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.640 kind of way. We were allowed to be very vulnerable 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.600 with him. We knew what he wanted to do, and 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.640 he brought out a lot of the vulnerability and we 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:23.959 were allowed to be truthful basically. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:30.800 And Johnny, yeah, I feel the same way. Mike actually 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.320 was thinking about it when I was doing an interview 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.600 the other day that I met Mike before I met 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.480 any other of the Downy clan, and it was really funny. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.920 I was in grade eight and Robbie would remember that 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.160 he and another guy, Hugh Douglas Murray and some other 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.960 people used to do ski trips and we'd all go 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.080 on the ski trips, and of course, you know, music 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.800 and skiing and drinking too much French beer goes hand 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.640 in hand in Canada. And so I remember getting the 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.920 clearance from my parents that I could go on the 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.720 ski trip, and someone said that's the guy you need 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:09.359 to talk to. And so I went up to Mike 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.639 Downey and said, can I come on this ski trip? 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:13.760 And he said, I don't see why not. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:14.280 Yeah. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.480 Absolutely. You know, I wasn't in high school yet, and 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.880 I was talking to Mike the other day and it 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.320 wasn't his ski trip. He was just tagging. He was 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.239 tagging along himself. But you know when you're in a 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.480 room with somebody who's just so exuberant, and so yeah, absolutely, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.200 And he's always been that guy. He's always been the 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.760 guy who's been really positive about things. Yeah, come on in, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.920 it'd be great. And he's also a really interesting brother 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.280 because he's not the kind of brother that would hang 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.040 out at every single gig, and he was kind of 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.160 the ultimate fly on the wall. He knew the ins 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.040 and outs of the band, but he also didn't hang 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.000 out too much. He'd disappear and then he would reappear 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.280 and you'd see him a couple of weeks later and 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.960 he would say, Hey, that was a great gig in Boston. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.280 I didn't come backstage because it was mental and we 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.200 just hung up with our friends at a local bar. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.120 But good gig, and then you wouldn't see him for 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.160 another eight months or something like that. So when he 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.480 became a filmmaker, it was kind of a no brainer. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.880 Robbie and I talked about this a long time ago 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.760 and said, you know, we got to really manage the 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.240 ship and getting Jake involved and of course having people 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.840 help us tell our story is just a logical step. 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.400 So yeah, what Robbie's saying is bang on that. Having 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:39.080 Mike do it was just a no brainer. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.440 So what is the genesis of the documentary? How did 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.040 it come together? And why now. 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.880 We had in the wake of hearing about the Universal Fire, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.320 Johnny and I got in touch with each other. I 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.120 was in Rome at the time and we thought we 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.200 had lost a lot of stuff in that fire, and 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.120 it kind of after Gored died, we all went our 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.640 separate ways to grieve and figure out what we were 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.560 going to do with our lives, which was a terrible idea. 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.560 You know, we did everything together, we shared everything, our 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.599 whole lives, and then at the moment when it was 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:23.120 probably most important, we all went our separate ways. But 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.080 the Universal Fire lit a fire under us to get 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.920 our affairs in order, and we started an archiving process 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.839 and we tracked down all our master tapes. Through the 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.440 archiving process, it just seemed now is the time. If 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.520 we're ever going to do a coffee table book or 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:47.800 some kind of tell our story properly and honestly, now 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:53.000 is the time. And Mike proposed this idea for an 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.520 Amazon documentary and he had no problem getting Amazon on 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:02.480 board and we were off. So the archiving. The fire 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.479 led to the archiving. The archiving led to the book 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.160 in the documentary. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.039 Okay, a couple of things. Did you lose anything in 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.320 the Universal Fire? 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.720 You know, it's funny, Robby, I want you to tell 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.359 that story of you and I having a little chat 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.400 and you picked up the new York Times and I 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.440 think you read it to me and from Rome and 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.919 who are we sandwiched? But we were sandwiched between some bands. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.840 It said the people who'd lost stuff in the fire, 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.479 and it said meltor May, the Tragically Hip and the 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:40.920 Von Trapp family singers. That was like, well Eastern great company. 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.960 But we said about you know, we set the ball 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.839 in motion trying to find this stuff and very fortunately 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:55.080 we were spared. But what a disaster for the music industry. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:56.839 Truly horrible. 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.800 You did mention the book. There's also coming out subsequent 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.280 to the documentary. I certainly have a copy. It's a 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.039 big coffee table book. Tell us the story of the band. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:09.080 Tell me about the book. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:11.320 That's Robbie. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.640 Yeah, we talked about doing something for a long time. 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.040 We've had a lot of great photographers through the years, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:24.760 and we would sort of become we're a family operation. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:29.159 For management, even record company people, they become extended family 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.400 and photographers. We work with the same photographers over and 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.560 over because they're people that we like, and they can 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:36.960 be in the room with us and they can be 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.919 shooting and you don't even know they're there. And we 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.360 just thought at some point we should feature this, and 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.640 we talked about it many times on the bus, but 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.680 when we were doing the archiving, it just seemed this 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.440 is a natural extension, This is our end, this is 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:58.479 the moment when this becomes a viable project. And I 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.159 pushed hard to work with Genesis Publishing out of London 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.159 because I'm a big fan of their books. You know, 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.800 I've got I can see right now, books of theirs 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.720 that I've got on Laurel Canyon and moon Age day Dream, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.320 the Nick Rock photographs of David Bowie, and lots of 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.800 tons of great books. The Beatles in India. They just 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:25.920 do such a first rate job. They don't cut corners there, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.760 you know, they truly are collector's items books, and I 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.280 just I'm always about that, like the quality is the 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:39.640 most important thing. So Genesis was an easy choice on 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:44.320 my part. And I also thought, having read a countless 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.880 of these books, that there are a couple of things 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.600 that really appealed to me. One was the Beatles anthology, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.000 where it's really in their words. There are a few 0:07:54.040 --> 0:08:00.880 other people mal Evans and George Martin, but it's true 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.160 the inner circle and the story is told in their 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.920 own words. And the other thing was the Beastie Boys 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.840 book where the conflicting opinions are on full display. You know, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.440 I thought that was a great album. Someone else says 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.080 that was a terrible record. I thought that's got to 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:20.560 be right front and center. 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.120 Okay. Mike was in charge of the documentary who did 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.239 the interviews, And Gordon Downe, who of course is longer 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.960 with us, is also in the book. Who assembled the book. 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:39.080 The book was largely assembled by Genesis. I worked with Genesis. 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:41.959 You know, they're in England, so it was a lot 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.880 of early mornings for me to be on calls with them. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.000 But it was about a two year project, almost a 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.200 two year project with them. A lot of the interviews 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.040 were culled from the documentary. Each of us did about 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.960 fifteen hours of interviews, and the Gordon Downey interviews were 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.520 largely taken from contemporaneous interviews. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:07.720 You know, when we're. 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.800 Out touring a record or promoting a new album or something, 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.120 go would have been a front and center, very in 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.320 demand for interviews, so there was lots of that. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:25.599 Okay. So, Johnny, in the book, it tells the story 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.320 of your mother driving you to the Berkeley College of Music. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.360 Can you tell that story from my audience. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.200 Yeah, that's a good one. I remember sort of just 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.560 getting ready to I've been playing drums for a good 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.640 four years and I was very, very into it. And 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.280 my drum teacher had told my mom at the time 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.119 that it was imperative that I stopped listening to Stuart Copeland, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.880 which every guy who played the drums in the eighties 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.720 was listening to the great Stuart Copeland. I mean, he 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.280 was like the guy you wanted to look like him, 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.240 You wanted to be like him. You you'd I taped 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.480 my hands like him. I did it all, just like 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.640 everybody else in the eighties. And so I was looking 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.800 at a brochure one day and I kept on looking, 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.079 you know, at it, and it was from the Berkeley 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.319 College of Music, which I had I had written away, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.800 and they sent one up and I had a great 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:26.080 summer program. I'm sure they still do. And my mom said, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.600 what are you doing this summer? And I said, well, 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.679 I don't really, I don't really know, just kind of 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.400 kick around. And she said, you know, pack your stuff 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.520 up and we'll take a trip tomorrow. And I had 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.800 no idea. And so we get in the car and 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.840 we start driving. You know Watertown sarrahcuse, you know, Binghamton, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.320 and then you know, we start cutting over and she said, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.920 we'll go and and we'll go check out the Berkeley 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.600 College of Music. And in those days, in the eighties, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.720 it was Roxbury was not a great sort of place 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:01.280 to be, you know, touring around and and my mom 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.760 just drove right through it, right up to the front 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.880 door of Berkeley College of Music. We sparked right there 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.120 and said let's go in. So we walk in and 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.120 my mom said, my son would like to go to 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.880 the summer program here. And we were stopped by a 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.880 guy by the name of Ed Sandon. I'll never forget him. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.880 He was just such a lovely, lovely man. Who's the 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:31.040 painter with the hair that Bob what's his name? He 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.360 kind of looked like him with a mustache and he 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.160 said Bob Ross. Yeah, Bob Ross. He looked like him, 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.520 you know, very approachable and very nice. And he was 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.840 from New Hampshire. And he said, well, you can't just 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.400 show up, and my mom said, well, we've driven all 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.360 the way from Canada. Could you at least hear my son. Now, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.320 she didn't say where in Canada, And so he might 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.840 have thought, Oh God, they've driven all the way from Vancouver. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.559 So anyway, I go, I do a little audition for him. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.520 He walks there, he goes, Actually he's he's a good 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.720 little drummer. I think we could find a place for 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:09.800 him here, and well, uh, you know, get them set 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.680 up in the dormitory. I didn't know anyone from you know, 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.720 a bar soap, and and so there we were. I 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.840 was on Boilston Street for the summer of nineteen eighty four, 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.760 and he said, go go get your drums and I'll 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.080 show you where you put them. And my mom said, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.240 we'll be right back. And we didn't have any drums, 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.000 and we went across the street to had great music 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.040 stores in those days in Boston, just like lined up 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.600 great drum drack Jack's Drum Shop, which was right around 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:46.920 the corner from you know where the uh base where 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.559 the baseball Yeah, Fentware Fenway as you can see Fenway 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.640 from there. And then Daddy's Junkie Music was across the street. 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.720 So we went in and I got a little kit, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.480 a little slingering kit, and it was perfect. And my mom, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.240 I might never forget I had those drums, and she 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.360 got in the car and she split and she knew 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.439 I was going to be good. And I went in 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.199 and I had the greatest summer of music. I really 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.199 was that. I was like, I'm doing it. And then 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.200 when I got home, I had a couple of weeks 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.559 and then my mom said, oh, somebody's phoned and asked 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.839 you if you would audition for a band. And I said, well, okay, great, 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.920 and she said it's a guy by the name of 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:36.760 Doug Downey and I said, yeah, I don't know. I 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.360 don't know. So then, like I remember, like four days later, 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.560 I said it wasn't Gore down and she goes, that's it. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.600 That's the guy. That's the guy. You'll phone his numbers 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.920 right over there, and I was like, oh, four days 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.840 said they've got a new drummer by now, like I 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.439 just uh, and I gave up. I gave a phone 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.720 call and they said go up to Robbie's house and audition, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.480 and so that was that. That was October of nineteen 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.640 eighty four. So that's how that sort of all came together. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.960 Okay, a little bit slower. You went across the street 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.200 to buy drums. Did you not own any drums? 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.760 I did own some drums, but we didn't know that 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:20.840 I was going to get in, so we were just going. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.960 I think my mom was like, I don't necessarily think 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.440 my mom thought I was going to get in. She 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.720 just thought we'll just go down and try, or maybe 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.480 they have drums down there. You know, it's not the 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.840 most portable instrument. You know, if I was going to 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.520 do it over, I definitely play bass or guitar because 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.240 you unplug and you're with all the girls in like 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.160 ten seconds. But you know, the drums you gotta you 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.360 can have a beer and then you got to take 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.000 the forty minutes to get it all, you know, torn down. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:55.680 It's like, so I did have drums, but I just 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.880 I don't know, you know, I just packed clothing and 0:14:58.920 --> 0:14:59.440 that was that. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.560 Okay, you were there for the summer. Had you spent 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.359 the summer away from your family previously? 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:08.280 Never? 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.320 No, No, So what was that experience like, both culturally 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.840 and learning about playing the drums? 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.560 Well, it was amazing because one of my roommates was 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.880 a guy that I'm still very close with. His name 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.880 is John Kimball, and he taught me he was a 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:31.240 bass player and he liked Michael Anthony of Van Halen, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.920 but Eddie van Halen was his guy. So I got 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:40.880 a full summer of Van Halen, which was pretty unbelievable. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.200 He would he would put it on and he would 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.560 explain what Eddie was doing, and you know, he knew 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.240 some guitar stuff, and I was like, Eddie van Halen, 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.520 my god, I don't think there's been a guy since 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.120 you know. He was like he was coming onto the 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.600 scene and I got incredible. So I taught him about 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:04.360 the Police and I was in DS and he taught 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.280 me about Van Halen. So that summer was an education 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.880 in music. One of the great live bands of all 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:11.840 time van Halen. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.440 What did you actually learn in class? 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.040 I studied some rudiments, and I really it was about 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.240 playing with other people. You could sort of hook up 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.480 with other people there, and what I learned about that 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.560 was that Robbie would agree that, you know, you can 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.760 practice on your own in your room, but playing with 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.760 other people, it's like doing ten hours of practice. Just 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.000 the gelling of being with people. And I think that 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.480 that really sort of opened me up to understanding that 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.920 when there is that lightning in the bottle, you know, 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.560 you know, recognize it. And we just had something with 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.760 the hip that was really so organic and so beautiful 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.119 that just it happened like that. It was really great. 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.119 So I got to move around and jam with different people. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.399 There were jam rooms, so in nineteen eighty four, that 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.439 was pretty That was pretty amazing. The Berkeley College of 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.120 Music is just a wonderful place if you really want 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.040 to study all kinds of things. But what it taught 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:29.760 me was that there's great players and there's not so 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.760 great players, and if you can sort of figure out 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.920 where you want to be and where you need to go. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.600 I think it was a good sort of view into 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.200 the work that I needed to do to get better 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.920 on the drums. So that really helped me. That was 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.280 the big learning thing for me. 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.680 And Rob what was your experience with guitar lessons. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.680 I had an older sister who had a great record collection, 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:01.199 and she had classical guitar that she ever touched, and 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.920 anytime she listened to one of her records, I listened 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.280 to it twenty times. So I spent a lot of 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.400 time pretending to play the guitar and leaping off furniture, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.080 playing the tennis racket, listening to early led Zeppelin albums 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.919 and Diamond Dogs by Bowie, and at a certain point 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:25.320 I think I said I'm going to do this. And 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.040 my parents were always very supportive, and they sent me 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.400 for guitar lessons. They signed me up for a month 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.720 of guitar lessons and I went to this guy and 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.840 he was a very old school He was an evangelical 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.240 preacher who taught guitar and I did three lessons with 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.560 him and it came time for the fourth lesson. I said, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:48.960 I'm done. I'm not going back. I don't dig this 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.600 at all. And my mother said, we've paid for four. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:54.840 You're going to the fourth lesson. You never have to 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.359 do another one. And I went to my fourth lesson 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.160 and he was sick and he had a six ten 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.560 year old kid filling in for him. I was twelve, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.560 and sixteen year old kid taught me bar cords. He 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.080 taught me jumping jack flash in my first lesson and 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.560 the intro to Angie and I was like, hello, let's go. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:19.840 I mean, I studied with him for you know, Saturday 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.000 mornings for about a year, and then I studied with 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.360 a couple of other people at jazz guy and kind 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.520 of a prog rock guy for a little bit. But 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.000 I think I got everything I really needed in about 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.520 the first four lessons because I was just I was devoted. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.520 For the next four years or five years, I had 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.880 a guitar in my hand, probably eight to twelve hours 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:46.240 a day. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.560 Tell me a little bit deeper what that looked like. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.200 You have the guitar in your hand. What were you doing. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.800 That guy, the sixteen year old guy, Jorgan Jensen, he said, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.040 always don't put your guitar away. In this case, keep 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.280 it near when a commercial. If you're watching TV and 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:09.080 a commercial comes on, play try and play the commercial 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.399 or play anything. Just constantly have your hands on the guitar. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.439 Then I would go away in the summers, and I 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:23.359 have terrible allergies. Summers were miserable for me. So I 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.280 would sit inside and I would be with my guitar 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.480 fifteen hours a day, just trying to figure stuff out. 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.399 As any young aspiring guitar player does, you know, they 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.800 sit in their bedroom and they practice and practice and practice. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.880 But it's not until you get playing. As Johnny said, 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.840 you've got to play with other people. It's all you know. 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.159 It's all well and good, it's a good way to 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.920 occupy your time, but you're not really getting anywhere until 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.240 you start collaborating in real time and playing with other people. 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.960 So when I was about thirteen or fourteen, I said 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.440 to go Sinklair, who lived across the street, I'm starting 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.200 a band and I'm going to be the guitar player, 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.400 and you're going to play the bass. And he said okay. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.080 About three weeks later he had a guitar, had a 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:15.120 bass and a n app. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.520 Okay, see it, told Gord Sincleir, you're playing the bass. 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.520 Did he have any experience playing the bass? 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:25.439 He did not have experience playing the bass. But he 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:30.160 was an extremely musical guy. His mother was played piano, 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.480 not professionally, but she played at parties and things and 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.160 in church, and his dad had a stand up bass, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.280 so Gordon would have goofed around with that. But he 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.600 was just naturally a good musician. He played the bagpipes 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.000 at that point. He was actually a very good bagpiper. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:53.119 He went to an international competition in Edinburgh, Scotland and 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:58.600 finished sixth in the world under eighteen, which was pretty impressive. 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:04.280 He was a kid, was like fourteen, so he was 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.560 just a musical guy. You know. He was doing these 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.359 funny things when we were in grade nine where he'd 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.720 get two cassette tape recorders and he was bouncing back 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.920 and forth. He'd play Riders on the Storm on a 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.600 keyboard on a pump organ that his parents had, and 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:27.600 then he'd play that into another tape recorder and overdub 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.959 something on top of that. Like he was just thinking 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:32.400 that way as a young guy. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.120 Okay, before we get into the band, let's start with location. 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.000 A lot of Canadians are very familiar with the landscape. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.160 A lot of your fians elsewhere or not. You guys 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.560 are from Kingston. We're in is Kingston? 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:51.159 What is it like? Kingston is right where Lake Ontario 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:57.199 meets the Saint Lawrence River, So it's right at the 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.520 end of the Great Lakes and it's just to short 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:07.359 jump over to upstate New York where two hours north 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:12.200 to Ottawa, two hours south to Syracuse, two hours east 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.000 to Montreal, two hours west to Toronto. So it's a 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.320 nice central location. Smallish town, you know, when we were 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.760 growing up, it was about seventy five thousand. It's about 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:28.320 one hundred and forty five now, I think, so big 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.560 enough that there's something to do and small enough that 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.720 you wouldn't lose your kids. 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.200 Now, you guys both still live in that area, right. 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:39.040 I do. Johnny lives in Toronto. 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:39.920 I live in Toronto. 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:44.000 Yeah, So how did you decide to leave Kingston behind? 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.560 It wasn't easy, it was I was thinking of making 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:55.040 a move. I was actually going to Vancouver, because I 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.719 don't think any of us have ever gotten a plane 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.440 and gone to Vancouver have a bad time. It's such 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:06.160 a beautiful, beautiful city. I think that Canada doesn't make 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.639 a lot of sense without Montreal and Vancouver. I always say. So. 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:11.600 I was on my way out there and that got 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:16.000 derailed and I ended up just going to Toronto. I 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.840 don't know why. I still I'm still asking myself why. 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.560 But I'm in I'm in Toronto, and I missed my 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.760 days in Kingston. I come, I come down to visit, 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.119 uh my, you know, my mom, and and it is 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:34.879 a beautiful town. It's it's one of the greatest fresh 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:39.359 water sailing it is the freshwater sailing capital of the world. 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:39.680 Really. 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:45.240 They have a Canadian regatta called Cork every summer. That's 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:47.560 when you kind of know summer's over in Kingston when 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:51.440 Cork starts. And so there's a lot of sailing. It's 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:56.880 right on Lake Ontario and directly across from Clayton, New York. 0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:03.520 So I I ended up in Toronto. And yeah, it's 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:08.840 not until sort of halfway through the hip, sort of 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:10.000 starting touring. 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:13.920 Okay, are you a sailor? 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.840 I was a sailor. Yeah. I went to sailing camp 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.439 before I went to the Berkeley College of Music that 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.240 bit because that's where all the girls were going. So 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.760 my buddy had said, oh, these are the girls that 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:27.520 are going in July, and these are the girls are 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.320 going in August. And it was like, okay, well then 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.600 we'll do it. And you've got these little nutshells, these 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:38.879 little boats, and you sailed around, you know, some of 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:40.880 the islands. It was. It was actually a great way 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.600 to spend the summer and get sunburned. 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.320 Okay, so you still have kids in school, right, I do. 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:51.439 So how many times you've been married? 0:25:52.880 --> 0:25:55.680 Just the once? I'm a little allergic to it, Bob, 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:58.320 but just the ones. 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:03.240 Okay, So you waited a while. Why did you wait? 0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:05.680 Were you sewing your wild note? So you hadn't met 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:07.720 the right person or what was happening? 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:11.760 I think you know the latter. I think that I 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:17.040 would always I was so happy to be in a 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:22.160 band and wanted to make sure that I was committed 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:26.479 to that. And it was just, you know, the right person, 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:32.680 and and of course you never know the way these 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.320 things shake out. But I wanted to have kids when 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:40.879 I had the time, and I think that, you know, 0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:43.879 I learned a lot about being a dad from four 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.520 great dads in the band. You know, they you know, 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:48.840 in the early days, they brought their kids on the road, 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:51.720 and so I remember I was talking to Robbie's wife 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:56.440 about it the other day when Boris, their son, came 0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.159 to Europe in Belgium and Germany, when we played with 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.719 the Rolling Stones, and then you know, there he was 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:07.399 with a lanyard around his neck and it was hitting 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:09.760 the floor. He was so small and he was tripping 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:12.639 over it. He was just a wee thing, and he 0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:16.760 experienced music. And so I got to grow up and 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:20.360 have those kids in my life, and then I got 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:22.639 to have my own kids. But I learned how to, 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:25.440 you know, really be a dad and be a musician. 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:28.439 But by the time I was i'd had kids, it 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:33.040 was over and you know, there were no absolutes in life. 0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:37.000 So I'm very thankful for it. Now I've got time 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:38.560 to spend with my kids. 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.800 And Rob, how many kids do you have? 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:45.840 I just have one son who's an aspiring musician. 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.120 He's a great musician. He's a touring musician. 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:50.960 Yeah. 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.200 Yeah, let's ask the most important question. Is he off 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:54.920 the payroll? 0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:00.800 Well? Yeah, for the most part, he just his own home. 0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:05.800 This summer, moved into his first house. I wouldn't say 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.520 he's entirely off the payroll. There's a he's got the 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:16.400 use of the Mini Cooper, but he's pretty pretty self sufficient. 0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:19.080 He's got a job that's paying his way, and he's 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:22.440 touring as a bass player in a band, and he's 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:26.240 kind of the the driving force behind the band. 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.720 So he's the Robbie. He's the Robbie of the band 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:33.680 really because he's doing all the bookings. And Robbie did 0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:35.880 all the bookings for the band in the early days. 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:39.000 So he's learned. He's got a great mentor there. 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:43.520 And he doesn't have a day job. He's supporting himself 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:44.280 as a musician. 0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:47.400 No, he does have a day job. He did a 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:53.960 master's degree in neuroscience and he works with he works 0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:59.720 with people who've had brain surgeries. Helping them rehab and 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:03.720 doing some physio type of stuff, mirror therapy with them, 0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:08.280 and he also does analysis for a company that does 0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:18.400 hallucinogenic therapy for veterans with PTSD. Kind of a big 0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:22.520 up and coming thing. People, you know, this is a 0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:26.760 major on the horizon thing. 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.880 You guys have toured around the world. A lot of 0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:36.040 successful acts come from Canada. For those outside of Canada, 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.840 what do they not understand about Canada? 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:42.360 Can I say it? Johnny? 0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:43.720 Yeah, you got to. 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:48.720 Saying used to be I think it was Ronnie Hawkins 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:52.800 said in Canada you have to you have to work 0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:55.000 ten times as hard to get one tenth as far. 0:29:56.040 --> 0:30:01.360 And I think it's just that the dis between cities 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:05.440 to be a touring band in Canada is absolutely grueling. 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:11.080 You're contending with huge distances, you're contending with horrific weather, 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.240 and you know, you go to the States and there's 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.600 another big city every hour or two hours, and in 0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:21.680 Canada you might have a fifteen hour drive between gigs. 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:29.000 So it kind of weeds out the people who it's 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:31.680 not really for. You know, if you're going to be 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:34.680 a touring band in Canada, it's because you really love 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:40.840 what you're doing and you're devoted to it, So I 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.560 think that makes a difference. The other thing I think 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:49.040 is that Canadian bands, the example that was set for 0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:53.479 us by people like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, is 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:56.080 that you walk on stage and you're kind of the 0:30:56.080 --> 0:30:58.920 same person on stage that you are off stage. It 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:04.480 wasn't about the make over or the character that you're playing. 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:09.400 It was kind of a singer songwriter vibe even for 0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:13.440 a band, like you know the guests who are whoever? 0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:16.880 And I think that makes a difference. 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:24.760 It's grounding, okay to what degree. I mean, I've been 0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:28.480 to Canada many times. You know, everybody seems to know 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:32.200 everybody in Canada. It's like a giant high school and 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:34.560 you can't let your ego get too big. Someone's going 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:38.560 to step on you. So any other differences that you 0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:42.120 can point out between Canada and the United States. 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.680 I think. I think the cutting down of tall trees. 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:49.240 Canada is founded by skinning beavers and cutting down tall trees, 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:54.600 and it it's that way to this day. If you 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:58.880 get above your station, people get out their access and 0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:06.280 starting you down. I think the US loves their success 0:32:06.320 --> 0:32:10.320 stories and the US loves their mythology. Canada loves to 0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:15.560 blow holes in our own mythology and we don't celebrate 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:19.680 our own the way the US does. But I think 0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:22.880 we're learning. I think it's improved a lot over the 0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:24.880 last twenty something years. 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:31.920 Also, I'll throw in that because of the our British influence, 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:36.000 the British really can they can take a grudge to 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:42.040 the grave. It's just like, yeah, really, that's it. And 0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:47.840 in America they'll chop you down. But they also love 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:51.000 a redemption, which is pretty cool. And you see that 0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:54.200 a lot. Well, I'm sorry for what I did. Martha Stewart. 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:58.840 Look what happened there, she's back on top. I don't 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:00.840 know that that would happen. I mean, you're right, our 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:04.600 population in Canada is a population of New York State. 0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:09.400 In the entire country, that one state is like here 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:14.120 we go. So you're right, everyone does seem to know 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.040 everyone up here. But I would have to throw that 0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:19.880 in that in the in the United States, you're you're 0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:23.840 not guaranteed her redemption, but you're it could be tabled. 0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:26.640 And I like that about America. I think that's that's 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:31.960 pretty cool. And in Canada it's like, really, we can forgive, 0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:33.880 but we'll never forget. 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:34.360 Do you run. 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:36.440 It's kind of run like an Italian family. 0:33:36.800 --> 0:33:48.680 So so true, Johnny, you talk about coming back from 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.560 Berkeley and your mother taking a phone call from Gord. 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:58.680 How did Gordon doug downy? Well, as my dad. My 0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:05.360 dad was at the university here and I think you 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.480 know he was going for tenure at the medical school, 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:11.719 and they were kind of dancing around it, and he 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:15.319 went to he got on a plane and went to 0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:18.480 Nigeria because they'd offered him the chair of medicine there. 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:23.080 And then he got to Nigeria and they said, yep, 0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:25.719 you've got the job. And then he was at a 0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:30.640 dinner and this guy said, oh, somebody's been bitten by 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:34.879 a snake and they died, and so anyway, I will 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:36.960 continue with the dinner. And my dad said, what was 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:39.239 that and the guy said, oh, green, mom, but bit 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:41.080 this guy. But you know that happens all the time. 0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:44.240 And my mom is if she sees a snake on TV, 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:46.799 it's like well, so she'd have a heart attack. So 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:49.799 there was no going to Africa. But my dad said 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:53.839 something to me that was really interesting. Sometimes to come back, 0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:57.520 you gotta go away. So I'd gone to Berkeley, and 0:34:57.560 --> 0:35:01.239 without even knowing it, I came back and I was 0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:04.080 the only guy in town who had been to Berkeley. Now, 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.279 I think that carried a little bit of something. And 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:13.640 you know, there's great drummers around Kingston even today, and 0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.600 so maybe that that just highlighted my name more than 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.359 it should have. I don't know. But when I got 0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:24.800 back and Gord had known me because of the high school, 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:28.920 and I'm the same age as his brother Patrick, so 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:33.120 maybe Patrick had said something I don't know, and so 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:36.440 that's kind of how they came to know me. I 0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:37.200 don't actually know. 0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.240 Wow, were you aware of Johnny and playing the drums 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:40.760 at the time? 0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:44.600 I was not. I was two years ahead of Gordon 0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:50.440 Paul in high school and five years ahead of Johnny, 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:55.320 so I was not that aware. But we had someone 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:57.319 who we thought was lined up for drums and it 0:35:57.400 --> 0:35:59.440 just wasn't working out. There was no he had no 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:04.000 time for us, and we just said, well, does anyone 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:07.440 know a drummer? And of course our circle was small. 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:11.640 We're thinking about our high school basically, you know, not 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.319 even the city at large. It was more, you know, 0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:19.359 our neighborhood and Gord or yeah, it would have been. 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:22.320 Gordon said, there's a kid in the high school, Johnny, 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:25.720 and I think he just went to Boston to Berkeley, 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.680 and he's a good drummer. I've heard he's a really 0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:32.680 good drummer. He said, let's check him out. Very simple, 0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:36.240 and as Johnny says, he showed up for the first 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:40.080 rehearsal and there was already a drum kit in my parents' basement, 0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:42.920 and he came in and we smoked a couple of joints, 0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:45.240 and he woke up and he was on the road. 0:36:47.000 --> 0:36:49.040 And it was very We should point out that it's 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.000 Rick McCreary. It was really his gig to give up, 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.359 because he's a beautiful drummer, a great player, and he 0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.360 was the drummer and Rick in the road. And I 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:01.680 think maybe, you know, as I've said a couple of times, 0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:05.279 I think his dad said to him, you know, why 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.680 don't you get you know, university under your belt, and 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:11.080 then you can go and do all this stuff and 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:14.319 and and but go to university and get that out 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:16.760 of the way. His dad was kind of steam pressing 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.719 him a little bit, and and that just it was 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:22.839 his It was really his gig to give up. 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.040 But that was that was the thing for all our 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:32.239 parents really that certainly my parents Gord's parents, was get 0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:34.440 university under your belt. You got to have something to 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:39.560 fall back on. H So, having no other options and 0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:41.760 just wanting to be in a band, I thought, well, 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:43.440 go to art school. I could do that. That's how 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:45.799 bands are formed, isn't it. That's how the you know, 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:49.200 Lennon Clapton, Keith Richards, they all went to art school. 0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:51.240 I thought, that's what you do, okay. 0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:54.320 You know we talked and you talk about Queen's College 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:58.520 and everything in the book of the three other members 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:02.800 of the band and yourself. Did any of you finish school? 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:07.480 I finished? I got a fine arts degree, and Gorge 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:11.319 Sinclair got a history degree. Gordon Downey dropped out after 0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:17.320 third year. He was doing poly political science and film, 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:23.399 and Paul Langui dropped out part way through his first 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.520 year of journalism in Ottawa. 0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:28.800 And did they drop out because of the band? 0:38:30.600 --> 0:38:33.640 No? Well, Gord Downey I would say yes, he did 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:37.200 drop out because of the band because at that point, 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:39.960 you know, Gordon I had been in a previous band 0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:43.120 that was working three, four, sometimes five nights a week 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:45.680 and we were trying to go to university at the time, 0:38:46.480 --> 0:38:50.160 and that was really not panning out too well. So 0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:53.000 we quit that band and said, let's just form a 0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:57.400 band of friends for fun, and that was the tragically hit. 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:02.560 But by the time I finished my fourth year, we 0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:06.360 were gigging three, four or five nights a week and 0:39:06.440 --> 0:39:09.240 making enough money to kind of keep body and soul together, 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:11.839 and we just thought, let's ride this and see how 0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:12.520 far it goes. 0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.319 Now, Johnny, your father's a doctor. What does he think 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.560 about you playing in a band while you're in high 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.000 school in not finishing college. 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:26.840 Well, I didn't even go. Yeah, I finished high school. 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:31.759 But as Robbie's in university, Gord Sinclair's in university, these 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.520 guys are just they're in. But I had two older 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:41.680 brothers that were finishing university and there were no jobs. 0:39:41.800 --> 0:39:44.080 So this was nineteen eighty four, so they were going 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.319 to have they both had to go back. One did 0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:52.640 a master's and another one went into law. So my 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:57.560 argument was that you go to university and there's no job, 0:39:57.640 --> 0:39:59.560 so you go to go back to university. And they 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:02.759 were like, yeah, you're right. And my dad was always like, 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:05.480 like all of our parents, you got to get up 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:10.120 and enjoy what you're doing every day. And so it 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.960 was very much that that I could at least give 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:18.040 it a try. I got entrance to university, and so 0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:22.040 that was good enough for them. But it was an 0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:27.200 interesting time to be uh. As we've we've often said, 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.480 it's like, it's not like the parents were shouting at 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:32.879 the top of the rooftops. You know, our sons are 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:37.480 going to be musicians. You know it was you know. 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:43.560 It, yeah, supportive but qualified. 0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.080 Yeah yeah, so yeah. 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:51.920 Oh okay. This drummer whose drums it was, who was 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:55.920 pressured by his parents to continue his education, do he 0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:57.840 ever circle back with regret? 0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:03.000 No, No, I don't think so. He went into mining 0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:10.000 and he became he did very well and became, you know, 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:14.279 a father, and I just think his h I don't. 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:17.520 I don't think so. It was a lot of work 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:20.640 to be in that band, right, Robbie the Rodents, And 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:23.080 I don't think he ever kind of looked at it 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:24.680 that way. I never got I saw him the other 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:27.319 day and he was just he was beaming. He was 0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:32.240 beaming in the movie. And I don't know, maybe Robbie's 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.000 got a different take on it, but he's he was 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:38.120 very supportive of us, and he was not jealous. He's 0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:40.080 not that kind of a guy. He's really a beautiful, 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:43.560 big heart. That's what I got from it. 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.879 Yeah, I don't think he has any regrets. He's still 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:50.000 drums all the time. He has a place set up 0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:55.000 not too far from Kingston where he keeps the kids, 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:57.759 set up with the PA system, and he goes and 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:03.520 he plays drums for two days a week to workout 0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:07.640 his angst and then he goes back in. Is you 0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:11.840 know VP at a bank or VP of Barrett Gold 0:42:11.960 --> 0:42:12.560 or whatever. 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:19.440 Okay, when Johnny joins the band, is everybody else involved? 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:22.439 Or is Paul Langmah not in the band yet? 0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:26.359 Paul was not in the band yet, and we didn't 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:30.600 even really have Before Paul, we had a sax player 0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:33.759 and we didn't even have him yet, so it was 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:37.880 really just it was the three of us and Gordon Downey, 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.040 so we were a little four piece. And then shortly 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:45.200 thereafter we got a sax player and he was with 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:49.799 us for about eighteen months, and we kind of over 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:53.040 that eighteen months we went from never having played a 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:57.320 gig to being kind of the popular band in eastern Ontario, 0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:03.920 starting to travel bit make a name, and we had 0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:07.600 to part ways with our sax player, who was some 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:11.040 years older than us. He had a very different history 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:15.879 from us. And at that point, I think we could 0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:19.560 have chosen, you know, who's the hot shot guitar player 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:22.799 in the area. We could have cast a much wider net, 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:27.640 and instead we chose a good friend. You know, It's like, well, 0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:29.800 Paul knows how to play four chords on the guitar 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:34.000 and it's not like it's rocket science. Were better off 0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:36.799 to choose someone who were friends with, who we can 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:39.840 hang out in a van with four fifteen hours driving 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:43.560 between gigs and he'll learn how to play the guitar. 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:45.920 And boy did he learn how to play the guitar. 0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:49.880 He was already trying to write songs. But he became 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:52.640 a great songwriter in his own right, and he's got 0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:56.760 a great voice. So it was the right call. 0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:01.320 Okay, From the moment Johnny joined the to the recording 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:05.239 of the so called EP before the first album. How 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:06.359 long a period of. 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:10.120 Time is that, would you say, Johnny? Three years? 0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:17.800 I yeah, little less? Yeah, maybe a little less, because 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.000 we got together in eighty four and then we played 0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:25.040 a sprinkling of gigs, and then Davis joins and then 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:29.800 he's gone. And in the movie you see these pictures 0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:33.480 of us as a five piece, then a four piece, 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.680 then a five piece again, and those pictures are cool 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:40.719 because that's Robbie's wife taking those photographs. It was black 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.640 and those beautiful black and white. So we took these 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.520 band photos and then two days later Davis was gone, 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:48.800 and then we had to call her again to say 0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:51.560 we gotta go to some of those same places again 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:57.799 and take photos again, minus one, but Paul came in. Yeah. 0:44:58.400 --> 0:45:01.440 I think by eighty seven we had recorded that little 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:04.320 Baby Blue record, right, Robbie, So this was just a 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:07.440 two and a half years maybe. 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:13.160 Okay, it's hard to keep a band together. They're all 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:18.880 these different mindsets. Did anybody think, or certainly you two 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:22.000 sing Wait a second, this isn't going to work out. 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.400 Either I got to join a different band, or I 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:27.279 got to live a straight life, or you guys all 0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.120 in with everybody all in all the time. 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.239 It's funny. I was thinking about that the other day, 0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:38.880 Pop because when I joined the band, I remember auditioning 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:42.560 with Robbie and Gord and Gord Sinkla're handing me a 0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.840 Little Richard record and say here's a song. The go 0:45:46.080 --> 0:45:49.040 can't help, but we're going to do our version of that, 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.960 and we're also going to write some of our own tunes. 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:57.319 And what's really cool about it is that in that 0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:01.720 time period, you know, we were influenced by different bands, 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:06.640 but those bands were career bands. It was The Stones, Aerosmith, 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:10.840 you know, you name it, and so we made a 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:11.919 commitment to each other. 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:12.200 Then. 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:14.640 I don't think that people do that now, and I 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:18.319 don't know that I would. I would do too well 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:20.560 in a band if we had to start it now. 0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:24.040 But back in those days, you know, we just wanted 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:26.600 people to hear us. And if it was six people, 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:28.600 and then you know, next time we came to that 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.520 town it would be fifteen people or something like that. 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.799 But the thing about it, which is captured in the 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:38.759 movie by Mike beautifully, is that it was the commitment 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.120 that we met, that we made with each other, and 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:45.680 the luck that we had to meet each other in 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:47.680 the first place. I think that that really kind of 0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:50.319 comes out about it, but that people don't seem to 0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:52.600 have that anymore. They want to be an individual and 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:56.120 then have a bunch of players. This guy plays keyboards 0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:58.280 in that band, and he plays bass in that band, 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.080 and he's the backup singer in that and they try 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:04.719 and fragment themselves. And as my drum teacher used to say, 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:09.600 my beautiful drum teacher, Jim Blackley, just you know, stay 0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:12.799 the course, just do that. And we did that, and 0:47:12.840 --> 0:47:15.800 there were hard times in the beginning, so I'm glad 0:47:15.800 --> 0:47:16.120 we did. 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:22.360 Okay. Today is different the Internet, et cetera. You know, 0:47:22.480 --> 0:47:25.920 in the early seventies there was a whole DJ movement 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.239 and now you'll go to a club and they'll have 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:33.359 somebody spinning records. But when you guys are playing out 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:39.479 in Kingston, how many opportunities are there? Where is there 0:47:39.520 --> 0:47:42.640 to play? What does it look like you're booking the gigs, Robbie, 0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:43.840 What are the opportunities? 0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:49.239 They were more than you'd think. I thought the same 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.520 thing when we started out. But we were just eager 0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:55.920 to play, and we thought the only way we're going 0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:59.960 to get better is playing anywhere and everywhere. We played 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:05.120 sweet sixteen parties, We played parties at health clubs. There 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:09.160 was a biker bar that had urban folk dancing that 0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.200 we became kind of a house band. There there was 0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:16.560 another bar in town that featured mostly blues and R 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:19.839 and B acts, and they were very serious about that, 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:25.160 bringing in blues and R and B authentic roots music, 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:29.959 and it used to bother them so much that they'd 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:32.040 hire us on an off night and we'd set a 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:36.000 new bar record and pack their place out. So we 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:38.600 became a house band there as well. So we're playing 0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:42.200 two competing bars as house bands. But then we'd go 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.360 and play a biker picnic, and then we'd go and 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:47.680 play at the university to college kids, and it just 0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.439 it seemed, you know, a high school dance. We would 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.080 play anywhere, and at a certain point I was like, well, 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:56.720 we've played every place you can possibly play in this town. 0:48:57.520 --> 0:48:59.960 We need to start casting the net further and further. 0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:04.080 And at a certain point, probably a year and a 0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:07.920 half in, we thought London, Ontario, which is in western 0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:11.000 Ontario on the far side, few hours west of Toronto. 0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:15.120 We thought, it's a bit like Kingston. It's a kind 0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:18.239 of a they have a snooty university, kind of a 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:23.600 Canadian version of the Ivy League, and it's a big 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:26.720 city that has a big ceed underbelly, kind of like Kingston. 0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:30.040 We thought, let's go there. And do the same thing 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:32.640 that we just did in Kingston, Let's do it in London. 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:36.319 And we did. In a weird sort of way. We 0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:40.640 surrounded Toronto and then we'd make little forays into Toronto. 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:46.000 And the guy who booked the Horseshoe Tavern, which is 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:50.440 quite a famous venue in Toronto for roots music, booked 0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:53.359 by our old friend x Ray McCrae. It was a 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:57.960 Kingston guy. I called him up one day cold call 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.360 and said, Hi, we're the Tragically Ip and we're from Kingston. 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.680 He said, Kingston, what are you coming through? I'll book you. 0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:16.680 It was really pretty much that easy, okay. 0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:22.600 A was anybody calling you, b if they said like, oh, come, 0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:25.200 we'll give you fifty dollars in beer, you would. 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:28.120 Say absolutely yeah. 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:30.840 The deal. The deal I had was everyone in the 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:34.520 band gets fifty dollars and we drink for free and 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:36.240 you pay for the pa in lines. 0:50:37.200 --> 0:50:39.359 But we had to work up to that though, Bob, 0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:42.800 because I remember I looked in a little a book 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:46.920 that I had, uh and it was in nineteen eighty five, 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:51.359 nineteen eighty six, and I remember we played this place, 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:55.480 Lake Ontario Park. Robbie booked the gig. It was an 0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:58.480 afternoon gig. I don't think anyone showed up, but we 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:01.279 got one hundred and six dollars of that gig. We 0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:03.640 didn't have to pay for PI. So we were, we 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.279 were on the move. We were we were starting to 0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:08.120 really get some gravity. 0:51:08.719 --> 0:51:11.000 We did have standards. There was one gig where we 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:14.759 were on the Marquee. We were book built second to 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:18.920 Shepherd's Pie, and I think we were we were in 0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:21.319 a no show. I think we pulled the plug on 0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:21.680 that one. 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.960 But okay, And how many nights a week were you 0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:25.719 working then? 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:31.919 At that point we were probably working like two nights 0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:32.320 a week. 0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:36.759 And then how much most of you, if you were 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:39.200 working two nights a week, how much were you rehearsing? 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:48.040 Uh, not very much rehearsals for the band After that 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:51.359 first couple of years, first year and a half, most 0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:56.120 of the rehearsing happened in sound checks, dressing rooms, hotel rooms, 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:02.680 you know, and on those occasions when we did get 0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:05.760 together with a specific purpose. You're gonna play on Saturday 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:08.600 Night Live or you're gonna you know, you're going out 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:12.239 on tour. For three months, we've rented a place for 0:52:12.320 --> 0:52:14.400 you to go and rehearse and we would get together 0:52:14.960 --> 0:52:18.279 and we'd jam. For the most part, there is very 0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:22.080 little rehearsing. Like you know, if you ever saw the 0:52:22.120 --> 0:52:25.960 band live, it's not like we rehearsed our endings very well. 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:30.680 Okay, when you're working two nights a week for fifty 0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:35.120 dollars a piece in beer, inside of you saying oh yeah, 0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:37.319 we're gonna make it. We're gonna be on TV, We're 0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:40.440 gonna be famous for you saying we're getting high with 0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:42.279 our buddies. This is what it is. 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:48.440 Yeah. I think by the time Push came to Shove, 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.799 we'd been doing it for about three years, and by 0:52:52.880 --> 0:52:55.240 that point we were probably making about three hundred dollars 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:59.640 a piece each a week, and that just seemed like 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.680 an that we could pool our money and rent an apartment, 0:53:02.840 --> 0:53:06.600 be like the monkeys, you know. That was you know, 0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:12.399 I'll ride trikes around our apartment together. Yeah, when you're 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:15.600 working two days a week, that's not really a I 0:53:15.600 --> 0:53:20.440 don't think we ever really had dreams of a world conquest. 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:22.680 It was always just kind of putting one foot in 0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:25.560 front of the other. So if we were playing two 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:28.520 gigs a week, the ambition would have been we need 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:34.000 to get another gig every week. That was we aim low. 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:37.640 You were the booker was just like on your brain 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:41.880 twenty four to seven, were you calling people incessantly? How 0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:47.040 much work and how much mental capacity or a mind share? 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:48.399 Was this taking. 0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:53.319 More than I liked, more than I had capacity for it? 0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:55.440 But no, it wasn't on my mind twenty four to seven. 0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:58.000 Being in a band was on my mind twenty four 0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:02.200 to seven. The booking part was a little bit of 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:05.640 an annoying task, not one I was really well suited for. 0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:10.200 But after about the first you know, first six or 0:54:10.239 --> 0:54:15.040 eight months, we had a handful of gigs that were regulars. 0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:17.439 You know, as I said, there was the Urban Folk 0:54:17.560 --> 0:54:19.680 Dancing Club on the one side of town, and then 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:23.920 there was the Roots Bar on the other side of town, 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:27.520 and we were kind of operating as a house band 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:30.880 of both of those. So that's you know, that was 0:54:30.920 --> 0:54:34.040 good for a bunch of good paying gigs every month, 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:36.560 and then it was just a matter of filling in 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:39.680 what we could. And it started with me making calls, 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:44.359 but then the calls started coming in. You know, whether 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:46.440 it was a you know, if you got a high 0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:48.680 school dance that was that was a good gig. They 0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:53.440 might pay eight hundred dollars for that, you know, So. 0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:59.200 Yeah, okay, it's probably the statute of limitations. Usually these 0:54:59.239 --> 0:55:02.480 gigs paid cash. Did you ever to clear the money 0:55:02.960 --> 0:55:04.000 pay taxes on it? 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:09.719 Well, yes, at a certain point, I think around the 0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:13.600 time up to here came out. I asked my father, 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:16.160 who had been filing my taxes for me, or I 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:21.319 thought he'd been filing my taxes. I went to him 0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:24.160 and it turns out that I was in about eight 0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:28.160 years of arrears tax so I had some I had 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:33.480 some sorting and explaining to do. But yeah, we we 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:38.600 always operated very above board. We were union members from 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:43.600 long before we needed to be union members. You know, 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:48.120 I don't know, I just that's kind of we're sort 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:53.640 of a middle upper middle class kids from a small town, 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:55.920 and our parents were all professionals, and it was all like, 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:59.399 you do everything above board. That's the way we were 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:00.920 and still are. 0:56:01.360 --> 0:56:04.880 Okay, So you get together. At first, it's kind of 0:56:04.880 --> 0:56:09.360 a garage band. You're playing covers. How does original material 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:10.400 come into the equation? 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:16.719 It was it was done pretty holistically. It was just 0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:19.640 kind of we're going to play these covers and then 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:24.560 sneak a couple of these originals and our courts and 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:27.720 Clothes really doing a lot of the writing, and Robbie 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:32.000 and and you know, we had some kind of bluesy 0:56:32.200 --> 0:56:34.920 kind of numbers. And then in those days you had 0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:38.719 to file a list, and the bar owners in some 0:56:38.800 --> 0:56:44.520 cases wanted to see the list. So Robbie could tell 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:46.880 you better than I could about some of the names 0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:51.319 that were used that were fictitious. But we do, as 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:54.040 I said, you know, a little Richard tune and then 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:58.160 one of our tunes baby blue Blood and what were 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:00.399 what were some of the names that we we had 0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:03.000 to sort of file in as. 0:57:02.880 --> 0:57:10.240 The Reformed Baptist blues and yeah, heart Attack love. 0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:12.960 By written by but written by. 0:57:13.000 --> 0:57:17.400 We would we would say, oh this is off of Yeah. 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.800 They did say we don't want any original music, just covers. Yeah, 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:24.360 but we weren't playing but we weren't playing hits like 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:26.840 we weren't. We never played top forty. If we were 0:57:26.840 --> 0:57:28.640 going to play a Rolling Stone song, we weren't going 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:32.680 to play Satisfaction or nineteenth Nervous Breakdown. We were playing 0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:36.080 something off the first record or off the hook or yeah, 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:38.760 have Mercy or off the hook or something like that. 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:42.720 So if they'd say, what's that song there, and if 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:44.480 it was one of ours, we'd say, oh, that's off 0:57:44.520 --> 0:57:50.120 of a German bootleg of the Doors, and they'd say, oh, okay, 0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:52.920 that's good. That's good because Bob. 0:57:53.040 --> 0:57:57.120 In those days in Canada anyway, it was like as 0:57:57.200 --> 0:58:01.080 easy top cover band. It was a Owling Stones cover 0:58:01.200 --> 0:58:05.200 band that they were from actually Kingston called the Blushing Brides. 0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:11.560 And then you know other other covers are CCR. Yeah, 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:15.720 there's a band band called Green River. So they were 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.000 being booked and then we were kind of creeping in 0:58:18.120 --> 0:58:22.080 like that, and people wanted to see what the material was. Okay, 0:58:22.120 --> 0:58:23.880 you guys are getting a little bit of traction, but 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:27.000 let's see the let's see the setlist and who's who's 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:30.840 whose tunes of those they're kind of quirky, but go ahead, 0:58:30.920 --> 0:58:33.160 you know. And and so that's how we got better 0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:34.200 at our own tunes. 0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:38.440 And I think by having a really obscure setlist, you 0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:40.720 know that we could put the Monkeys back to back 0:58:40.760 --> 0:58:44.800 with Howl and Wolf. Uh. People really had no expectations 0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:48.680 and it allowed us to slip our material in and 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:51.600 you know, they didn't know any of the songs we 0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:55.920 were covering so our songs fit in beautifully. 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:59.160 And then we got then we got requests for those songs, 0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:03.240 which was really cool, which pumped our tires. Which is 0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:06.600 an original band, that's what you want. Yeah, and so 0:59:06.760 --> 0:59:09.280 it's like, okay, well we weren't going to play it tonight, 0:59:09.320 --> 0:59:11.880 but we'll throw it in. So that was cool. 0:59:12.360 --> 0:59:16.800 Okay. A lot of bands quite consciously write rigial materials, 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:18.840 say the only way we can break if is if 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:23.360 we have our own material. Was this a very conscious thing? Okay, 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:25.880 we want to make it, We have to write original stuff. 0:59:27.960 --> 0:59:29.840 Yeah. I don't think anyone who was thinking too much 0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:33.080 about making it. I think that the idea of writing 0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:36.280 our songs, writing our own material was just a natural 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:41.680 extension of you know, you've been learning songs for the 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:46.040 last ten years, over and over, learning other people's songs. 0:59:46.560 --> 0:59:49.000 You pick up a little bit about how to write 0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:55.200 a riff, what song structure is. It seems natural. After 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:59.080 a while, It's like the mystery is kind of blown. 0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:02.480 It's like, not the mystery of how to write a 1:00:02.480 --> 1:00:05.400 great song that will always be a mystery, but the 1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:10.120 mystery of how to put a song together is no 1:00:10.240 --> 1:00:12.360 longer a mystery, and it's like, oh, I think I 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:15.440 can do this, you know, a simple chord progression. We 1:00:15.560 --> 1:00:20.360 just need some lyrics. And Gorge Sinclair was really natural. 1:00:20.400 --> 1:00:23.400 He was the one that was really kind of he 1:00:23.480 --> 1:00:26.760 was coming forward with song ideas and everyone, I think 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:29.640 everyone in the band felt like, well, we all want 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:32.560 to be songwriters. He's actually doing it, and it kind 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:36.360 of kicked our asses a bit to step up and 1:00:36.840 --> 1:00:40.880 dig in and start putting ideas. 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:43.800 Forward, you know, jumping a little bit forward. There's a 1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:48.640 point in the documentary where Gordon down he says, I 1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:53.280 need to write all the lyrics and it's a little 1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:57.720 uncomfortable and it's hinto there's a little tension. Tell me 1:00:57.760 --> 1:00:58.880 what was going on there? 1:01:01.320 --> 1:01:04.360 Well, I he did need to write the lyrics. You know, 1:01:04.560 --> 1:01:09.720 he's as the lead vocalist. It made sense that he 1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:14.160 needs to be in tune with what he's singing. He 1:01:14.240 --> 1:01:19.160 needs to feel it. But as songwriters, it did feel 1:01:19.200 --> 1:01:22.880 a bit like Paul Langua and Gorge Sinkler were both 1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:27.840 writing lyrics at the time, and you know, Johnny and 1:01:27.840 --> 1:01:31.520 I were collaborating on musical ideas and Gordon I were 1:01:31.640 --> 1:01:35.840 collaborating and we were all collaborating together, but Paul would 1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:38.120 come in with a finished song, music and lyrics. Gorge 1:01:38.120 --> 1:01:40.840 Sinkler would come in with a Finnish song, music and lyrics, 1:01:41.280 --> 1:01:43.840 and suddenly it felt like their wings were clipped. And 1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:48.320 I think that led to some resentments that carried forward. 1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:57.160 But Gord truly developed into an outstanding lyricist. You know, 1:01:57.320 --> 1:02:01.200 he was already becoming one, but he really developed, and 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:04.600 I don't think maybe that would have happened without that, 1:02:04.880 --> 1:02:08.680 Maybe it would have. I don't know. It did lead 1:02:08.720 --> 1:02:09.960 to some problems for sure. 1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:14.520 Okay, you know it's depicted. You're all from the same town. 1:02:14.680 --> 1:02:18.160 You're all middle upper middle class. In the document, everything's groovy, 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:22.040 everything's harmonious, except for that little blip. Was this really 1:02:22.080 --> 1:02:25.320 the case or were there ever any argument ever? Anybody 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:26.240 threatening to quit? 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:28.760 Yes, no, I don't think. 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:30.760 I don't did anyone threaten to quit? 1:02:32.400 --> 1:02:35.160 No, I don't think anyone threatened to quit. 1:02:35.280 --> 1:02:40.360 But we had we had arguments, Yeah, okay, you had 1:02:40.440 --> 1:02:46.520 arguments about what. Uh one of our doozies. One of 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:49.520 our doozies was the night that we met Jake Gold 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:55.200 and Alan Gregg. We went out and met them and uh, 1:02:55.240 --> 1:02:57.320 we played a gig at Larry's Hideaway. You were there 1:02:57.320 --> 1:03:02.920 that night, Bob uh when was given an award recently, 1:03:03.000 --> 1:03:06.760 and we kind of touched on that Larry's Hideaway gig. 1:03:06.760 --> 1:03:09.400 And then we went to the Pilot House in Toronto 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:12.840 and talked to Alan and Jake and we were trying 1:03:12.880 --> 1:03:16.280 to feel out management and and I don't think anyone 1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:19.400 didn't think that they weren't the right people. But we 1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:22.200 just were asking questions, which is what we did, which 1:03:22.240 --> 1:03:23.880 is what we needed to do. You know, are these 1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:28.480 the guys for us? And you know, and we had 1:03:28.600 --> 1:03:30.800 we had a pretty good We had a doozy that night, 1:03:30.840 --> 1:03:33.320 I think, didn't we rob Yeah, we did. 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:36.520 I was I may have been the holdout on that one. 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:42.480 I was really upset that night because Alan, who we 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:46.360 perceived as the brains of the management. We were you know, 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:49.240 maybe jumped the gun on that, but we perceived him 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:52.560 as the brains of the management. And he curved Gordon 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:55.560 Downey as the face of the band and Gorge Sinkler 1:03:55.640 --> 1:03:58.920 is the premier songwriter. He took them to one end 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:02.360 of the table and bent their ears and charmed them 1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:05.800 and Jake was left at the other end of the table. 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:12.960 With the three dummies, and I was irritated beyond belief. 1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:15.560 I was like, I don't want to be with these guys. 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:20.680 That's a divide and conquermentality. And anyone who tries to 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:25.360 divide the five of us, you know, I was scorched 1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:32.200 earth about that. Not a chance. But also we operated 1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:38.200 by unanimity throughout our career. For the most part. We 1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:41.640 never enforced decisions a three to two or a four 1:04:41.680 --> 1:04:46.040 to one vote on something. So I was the odd 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:49.600 one out on that, I think, and I would have said, Okay, 1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:56.320 that's it. There are managers, And it turns out Jake 1:04:56.440 --> 1:04:59.840 was a brilliant manager. He came up with great ideas 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:05.000 and very very smart, savvy, street savvy manager. 1:05:06.400 --> 1:05:10.360 Okay, let's go back. Now you're making three hundred dollars 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:12.680 a week, and you see, we can live in an 1:05:12.720 --> 1:05:17.600 apartment with strikes like the monkeys. Where was everybody living? 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:20.080 And did you like Jefferson airplane? This is a famous 1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:23.960 motif everybody gets together in a house. What did happen? 1:05:24.960 --> 1:05:27.280 We were kind of on the road a little bit there, 1:05:27.320 --> 1:05:29.400 but we needed to have sort of a It got 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:31.400 to a point where we needed to have an apartment 1:05:32.120 --> 1:05:36.160 in Toronto. So we had with our road manager at 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:40.800 the time, an agreement with some girls that we would 1:05:40.840 --> 1:05:43.560 just flop on the floor in one of the one 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:47.200 of the rooms. So we found out later that we 1:05:47.200 --> 1:05:50.040 were giving him the money and then going back to Kingston. 1:05:50.400 --> 1:05:53.800 I think we were still maybe staying at girlfriend's houses 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:57.000 or parents, but when we were on the road, we 1:05:57.000 --> 1:05:58.840 were on the road, we were in kind of limbo 1:05:59.400 --> 1:06:02.800 and this this road manager guy was ripping us off. 1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:05.320 He never gave the money to the girls and so 1:06:05.360 --> 1:06:08.360 we had to go and play a gig to pay 1:06:08.400 --> 1:06:11.760 off our It was a good learning experience we had 1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:15.800 to We had to pay off this rental debt that 1:06:15.880 --> 1:06:16.320 we had. 1:06:17.440 --> 1:06:23.360 Yeah, it was a good lesson that anyone involved with 1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:26.200 the band has to be part of the family. There 1:06:26.240 --> 1:06:29.000 has to be trust and commitment all the way around. 1:06:30.360 --> 1:06:34.000 Okay, you're talking about the vast distances in Canada. You're 1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:38.160 talking about being in Kingston starting to play London. Rock 1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:42.640 and roll lore is about burning the candle on both ends, 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:48.280 being high, being drunk in car accidents. So what was 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:50.960 your experience with all that late night driving. 1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:55.600 Yeah, there were many car accidents, That's what I'd say. 1:06:59.000 --> 1:07:04.120 You know, we always had someone who would do the driving, 1:07:05.040 --> 1:07:10.120 the road manager or lighting guy. There was always someone 1:07:10.240 --> 1:07:11.960 who could do it, and we could all pile into 1:07:12.000 --> 1:07:16.160 the van. And I don't think we ever had Did 1:07:16.200 --> 1:07:18.440 we ever have a major accident, Johnny. 1:07:18.360 --> 1:07:20.920 No, we didn't, but I was. I was looking at 1:07:20.920 --> 1:07:24.040 a non itinerary a little while ago and Paul Langwall 1:07:24.600 --> 1:07:27.240 and Gord Sinkler used to do the lion's share of 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:31.240 the driving for us, and they both smoked, so they 1:07:31.440 --> 1:07:34.360 cracked a window and they you know, they would have 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:38.400 the sig out the window and they could keep going. 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:41.200 Those guys. But Jake had has booked at this thing 1:07:41.200 --> 1:07:45.520 in London at the Casby Awards, and then Ottawa, then London, 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:49.400 then Kitchener then back up to Ottawa and then after 1:07:49.440 --> 1:07:53.360 that gig. I remember that last Ottawa gig. We didn't 1:07:53.400 --> 1:07:57.240 have enough money to get hotel rooms, so we didn't 1:07:57.400 --> 1:08:02.080 so we went to the Chateau lauriermus Canadian Hotel and 1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:05.840 we kind of just bummed around one of the ballrooms. 1:08:06.000 --> 1:08:07.840 I don't know how we didn't get kicked out. We 1:08:07.920 --> 1:08:11.200 just kind of tried to catch a couple hours of 1:08:11.280 --> 1:08:13.960 sleep and then we played this gig and then we 1:08:14.000 --> 1:08:16.280 had to pile in the car. And I remember talking 1:08:16.280 --> 1:08:18.479 to Paul about this that I don't know how to 1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:22.200 this day that he stayed awake because you always had 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:24.960 to have someone in the driver's seat beside him talking 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:27.920 to him because it was and I fell asleep and 1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:30.400 I was just in the periphery of my vision. I 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:33.519 was seeing these purple bunny rabbits poke their heads up 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:36.000 just as just as we were going back. I was like, 1:08:36.040 --> 1:08:38.320 did you see that? You said? And Paul was like what. 1:08:39.400 --> 1:08:41.120 And then I drift off to sleep and I was like, 1:08:41.280 --> 1:08:44.280 how did we stay alive that night? And that was 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:46.880 the power of Paul. He could just do it. He 1:08:46.920 --> 1:08:50.960 could like he could drive. He and Sinclair really were 1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:54.479 the reason that we're alive today. And you know, for 1:08:54.760 --> 1:08:59.719 so many of those late night, no hotel, no sleep 1:09:00.520 --> 1:09:03.519 gigs and we go up and play for half an hour, 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:08.360 Bob and then Violin drive eight hours to London then 1:09:08.520 --> 1:09:12.120 back to Ottawa, and these were showcase gigs and it 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.479 was Jake was like, you got to play this. I 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:18.800 know it's terrible routing, but you gotta play this. This 1:09:18.840 --> 1:09:20.360 is going to be big, you know. 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:24.920 Yeah, when Jake and Allen sold themselves to us. One 1:09:24.960 --> 1:09:27.040 of the things they said is we're going to you know, 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:30.160 look at this routing that you guys are doing. It's terrible. 1:09:30.280 --> 1:09:32.960 We'll end that routing. It'll all make sense from here. 1:09:33.000 --> 1:09:35.760 The routing will all be very logical. And of course 1:09:35.800 --> 1:09:37.920 the only thing that happened was the bad routing got 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:39.840 multiplied by a factor of ten. 1:09:47.720 --> 1:09:50.559 Okay, when usually in the United States were talking about 1:09:50.560 --> 1:09:54.960 showcase gigs, You're in New York or LA playing for industry, 1:09:55.560 --> 1:09:58.519 hoping for some kind of leg up, what was a 1:09:58.560 --> 1:10:02.120 showcase gig outside to Toronto about. 1:10:02.760 --> 1:10:06.120 It was about getting college gigs. College gigs, yeah. 1:10:06.400 --> 1:10:07.679 Yeah, college bookers. 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:13.599 Okay, So you know, at first you're playing anywhere that'll 1:10:13.640 --> 1:10:18.040 have you to what degree are you conscious at first 1:10:18.040 --> 1:10:21.360 you're being paid to rehearse, you know, work it out 1:10:21.360 --> 1:10:26.360 on stage. At what point are you conscious of audience reaction, 1:10:26.680 --> 1:10:30.080 wanting to get the audience involved, and at what point 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:33.000 do you get enough of a reaction do you feel 1:10:33.040 --> 1:10:34.920 wait a second, something is happening here. 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:40.160 I think we're always very conscious of audience reaction. That 1:10:40.360 --> 1:10:44.320 was I've always felt that, you know, the five of 1:10:44.360 --> 1:10:47.320 us could be playing in a room and we're just 1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:50.799 you know, working out an idea. The second a stranger 1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:55.439 comes into the room, we're all performing. We're just naturally 1:10:55.479 --> 1:11:00.200 that way. Everyone digs in differently and you're try trying 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:02.240 to get a reaction out of the person that's walked 1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:04.400 into the room. It was like that from the very 1:11:04.439 --> 1:11:11.280 first gig on, very conscious of trying to get people involved, 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:14.200 get people to pay attention. It was kind of a 1:11:14.280 --> 1:11:17.360 dance crowd at the time, like you wanted people up 1:11:17.400 --> 1:11:20.799 and dancing, and then at a certain point it starts 1:11:20.800 --> 1:11:24.479 to get more crowded up front and there's not room 1:11:24.520 --> 1:11:26.960 to dance. But we'd look out and if there was 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:29.000 a fight happening, and we'd say, hey, we're doing a 1:11:29.000 --> 1:11:32.920 good job. The energy is so high that people don't 1:11:32.920 --> 1:11:35.800 know what to do with their energy. And then of 1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:37.760 course you get tired of that and you move on 1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:40.840 to you know, it's become a bit more focused about 1:11:40.920 --> 1:11:44.880 the kind of attention you want. But yeah, always very 1:11:44.880 --> 1:11:48.160 important to us to try and make that connection with 1:11:48.240 --> 1:11:48.759 the audience. 1:11:49.439 --> 1:11:53.679 Okay, was there a breakthrough gig in your mind based 1:11:53.720 --> 1:11:56.280 on audience reaction or the way you felt to the 1:11:56.280 --> 1:11:59.720 whole field? We go wait, a second. We are on 1:11:59.800 --> 1:12:00.400 our away. 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:06.040 You know, in the movie, there's a gig that we 1:12:06.160 --> 1:12:10.519 play and Bruce Dickinson is in the audience and it's 1:12:10.600 --> 1:12:13.960 kind of a make or break kind of thing and 1:12:14.240 --> 1:12:21.519 it was at Massey Hall, and that was Dickinson, Yeah, 1:12:21.600 --> 1:12:24.720 our man, and he came up to see us. He'd 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:29.320 heard of the band, and it could have gone horribly wrong, 1:12:29.600 --> 1:12:31.960 and we might have thought it did. But I think 1:12:31.960 --> 1:12:37.840 that that was a moment that really shaped us getting 1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:40.799 our record contract and then working with the great Don Smith. 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:43.800 So I think, you know, looking back at it and 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:47.360 seeing it in the film, that was obviously one of them. 1:12:48.320 --> 1:12:51.960 But you know, leading up to those those gigs there 1:12:52.120 --> 1:12:55.320 there were so so many of them, and you know, 1:12:55.360 --> 1:12:57.640 you're you're always promised that this is going to be 1:12:57.680 --> 1:12:59.400 the one, this is going to do this, and and 1:12:59.680 --> 1:13:02.080 it does pan out, and we seem to have all 1:13:02.120 --> 1:13:05.080 these kind of gigs and then other people would just 1:13:05.360 --> 1:13:07.960 they'd play the same gig and they'd get something from 1:13:07.960 --> 1:13:11.479 it and we didn't. Sort of we were living through 1:13:11.479 --> 1:13:14.920 it together, which was really great and beautiful, and we 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:19.040 were a support system to each other. But it didn't 1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:20.320 happen overnight for us. 1:13:20.360 --> 1:13:20.639 Bob. 1:13:20.720 --> 1:13:25.599 It was just it was a long, long, long haul. 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:28.479 And after forty years and it's our fortieth year now, 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:32.519 I don't know. I have trouble sort of saying there 1:13:32.560 --> 1:13:35.200 was that one gig. You know, we had all these 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:39.240 crazy things that happened to us. But I don't know, Robbie, 1:13:39.479 --> 1:13:41.280 there's one for you. 1:13:41.320 --> 1:13:44.320 No, I can't think of one. I mean, in retrospect, 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:48.120 that one with Bruce is a good one, a good choice, 1:13:48.160 --> 1:13:50.760 because you know, we always used to say it's not 1:13:50.840 --> 1:13:55.280 a good gig until something goes wrong, because all the 1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:57.640 best gigs, you know, if we walked out and had 1:13:57.680 --> 1:14:01.080 a sound check and everything was smooth soundcheck, we'd say 1:14:01.400 --> 1:14:05.360 we got a problem. If the sound check was terrible 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:08.600 or a fraud, then we'd probably go on and have 1:14:08.680 --> 1:14:11.760 a great gig. But you know, a gig when you 1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:14.760 come on and something's malfunctioning at the beginning of it, 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:20.559 oftentimes you just dig in. We weren't. We didn't get 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:24.040 thrown by stuff like that. We would and Gord was 1:14:24.360 --> 1:14:28.559 very good at just improvising his way out of something. 1:14:29.280 --> 1:14:32.639 And I think that's what Bruce Dickinson saw that night, 1:14:32.840 --> 1:14:36.719 was that what could have been a disaster, Gorge's mike 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:40.400 tipping over and the mic blows up and the cable's out, 1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:44.840 and he just started into this pantomime thing and we 1:14:44.960 --> 1:14:49.000 just jammed while they sorted out the mic issue, and 1:14:50.160 --> 1:14:55.320 it worked smoothly because we were by the time people 1:14:55.320 --> 1:14:58.639 were seeing us in these larger venues, we were already 1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:02.360 kind of seasoned on stage. It was not new to us, 1:15:02.880 --> 1:15:06.599 and we didn't really have great expectations that, oh, this 1:15:06.680 --> 1:15:09.040 gig is going to break us. Now, we're just going 1:15:09.120 --> 1:15:10.679 to go out and we're going to do what we do, 1:15:11.520 --> 1:15:14.120 which is have fun together and try and connect with 1:15:14.160 --> 1:15:18.080 the audience, try and you know, try and stick in 1:15:18.160 --> 1:15:19.080 people's minds. 1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:24.920 Okay, It almost is played in the documentary like you're 1:15:24.920 --> 1:15:28.160 out doing your thing. If somebody says, oh, you should 1:15:28.160 --> 1:15:30.880 meet these managers, you meet Jake and Allen, that's it. 1:15:31.800 --> 1:15:36.120 How much previously did were you interviewing managers and saying no, 1:15:36.280 --> 1:15:38.519 were you trying to get managers? Were people coming up 1:15:38.560 --> 1:15:41.400 to you? Was this really like one and done? Or 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:42.840 were there all these things going on? 1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:46.920 There were people in Kingston that were approaching us and 1:15:46.960 --> 1:15:50.439 they were saying, well, I think there's something really special 1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:53.360 about you guys, I'm not a manager, but I'd like 1:15:53.439 --> 1:15:55.960 to manage you. We had like a couple of people 1:15:55.960 --> 1:15:58.880 that we sat down with and then I think the 1:15:58.920 --> 1:16:02.800 conversations guarded and it's like, well, yeah, we do need management. 1:16:03.640 --> 1:16:03.840 You know. 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:07.880 Robbie was being pretty taxed with the gigs Gord Downie 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:13.280 was doing, using his his connections to get them. And 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:16.400 I remember I got like a gig at my high 1:16:16.400 --> 1:16:18.679 school because I was still at the high school there. 1:16:19.040 --> 1:16:23.719 So it was time to move outside of Kingston. And 1:16:23.840 --> 1:16:27.920 I think that, uh, we had this guy who worked 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:30.320 for the band who was a good friend of Robbie's Fraser, 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.320 and he got a tape into the hand of somebody 1:16:33.320 --> 1:16:35.519 who got it into the hand of Alan Gregg, and 1:16:36.120 --> 1:16:39.360 we had heard that he was in management or they were, 1:16:39.760 --> 1:16:42.599 you know, he liked music, and I think that that's 1:16:42.800 --> 1:16:45.760 it came. Came kind of like that. But we hadn't 1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:48.599 really been talking about management. But we knew we needed 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:53.639 to make that that that dive into the deep blue 1:16:53.680 --> 1:16:56.000 water that we needed to, you know, for us to 1:16:56.040 --> 1:17:00.680 really take another step, we needed to do something with 1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:02.360 a manager. Proper manager. 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:03.360 Okay. 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:05.559 One thing that's in the book, which I didn't know. 1:17:06.600 --> 1:17:08.960 Is that they say that or in the book it 1:17:08.960 --> 1:17:12.320 has said that Alan greg put in multiple hundreds of 1:17:12.439 --> 1:17:16.439 thousands of dollars. A. Was that true? B? Could you 1:17:16.600 --> 1:17:17.080 sense that? 1:17:19.960 --> 1:17:22.719 I don't know about multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars? 1:17:22.760 --> 1:17:26.160 But he did finance the Baby Blue record to the 1:17:26.200 --> 1:17:30.559 tune of probably thirty grand, and he financed the first 1:17:30.600 --> 1:17:33.920 two videos and that may have been to the tune 1:17:33.960 --> 1:17:37.360 of you know, eighty grand or one hundred grand. So yeah, 1:17:37.400 --> 1:17:39.280 he was probably in for over one hundred grand. 1:17:39.560 --> 1:17:44.040 Yeah, okay, So you talk about those videos, you get 1:17:44.160 --> 1:17:48.320 action on Much Music. And with explosion of MTV, unless 1:17:48.320 --> 1:17:51.280 you were in Canada or Canada savvy, you didn't a 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:55.240 know about Much Music. There wasn't MTV Candada at that point. 1:17:55.680 --> 1:18:00.759 It reached everybody. It focused on Canadian bands. Your video 1:18:01.240 --> 1:18:04.080 got on Much Music. How did that happen and how 1:18:04.080 --> 1:18:06.439 did that affect the trajectory of your career? 1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:12.519 Ah? Well, Much Music was weird. It was fortuitous for 1:18:12.640 --> 1:18:16.280 us that it had just kind of really taken off 1:18:16.320 --> 1:18:20.240 in Canada and it was a different time. So on 1:18:20.280 --> 1:18:23.600 a Friday night or Saturday night, if you went to 1:18:23.640 --> 1:18:26.759 someone's place, there was a good chance that Much Music 1:18:26.880 --> 1:18:30.000 was showing and you're watching the young bands coming up, 1:18:30.200 --> 1:18:34.000 and there's something called CANCN where a third of the 1:18:34.040 --> 1:18:38.320 material has to be Canadian in origin. So what often 1:18:38.360 --> 1:18:42.280 happened is they'd have ghetto wised the Canadian artists into 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:44.920 an hour or two hour special and then the rest 1:18:44.920 --> 1:18:47.360 of the day would be Michael Jackson and Cyndi Lauper 1:18:47.439 --> 1:18:53.360 and whoever else. But just the fact that we had 1:18:53.360 --> 1:18:56.400 a video on Much Music gives you a certain credibility 1:18:57.160 --> 1:19:01.240 and it allowed us to go and play in thunder Bay, 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:07.599 thunder Bay, Ontario, or Sudbury, Ontario, or Saskatoon, and people 1:19:07.680 --> 1:19:10.040 have seen your video, so they're going to come out 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:14.400 as curiosity seekers, As music lovers and curiosity seekers, they 1:19:14.400 --> 1:19:17.320 come to check you out, and then your job is 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:21.120 be good, turn them on. And if you turn them on, 1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:24.840 the next time they'll bring a friend or a couple 1:19:24.840 --> 1:19:27.360 of friends. So you go from playing to forty people, 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:30.519 the next time you cross the country, you're playing to 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:33.720 you know, two hundred and fifty people, and then you're 1:19:33.720 --> 1:19:37.880 playing to one thousand people. But your job is always 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:42.520 the same. You've got an audience deliver. You have to deliver. 1:19:43.840 --> 1:19:47.080 Okay, you make a deal with MCA, they bring in 1:19:47.160 --> 1:19:50.920 a seasoned professional. Don Smith was originally an engineer starting 1:19:50.960 --> 1:19:55.280 to produce. You know, what was your experience of making 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:59.479 that first record and because your newbies really and where 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:00.720 you sat a fied with the. 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:06.759 Result he was done was just such a great breath 1:20:06.760 --> 1:20:11.040 of fresh air. He met us in Memphis and it 1:20:11.080 --> 1:20:14.360 was the wintertime, and he did this with the two 1:20:14.400 --> 1:20:17.760 records we did with him. We met up and we 1:20:17.800 --> 1:20:22.880 had a week before we started tracking, and we took 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:27.679 over this abandoned Mexican restaurant next door to the studio. 1:20:28.200 --> 1:20:32.360 It had terracotta flooring and it was freezing, and we 1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:36.080 rehearsed and he would make us rehearse the songs that 1:20:36.240 --> 1:20:39.120 he thought we should track, and I think we had 1:20:39.920 --> 1:20:43.160 quite a few extras, but he was focusing on a 1:20:43.200 --> 1:20:45.639 couple of the New Orleans is sinking blow a high 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:50.120 dough every time you go, and he just made us 1:20:50.160 --> 1:20:52.599 go over them and over them and over them again. 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:58.800 And you know, practice makes perfect. So those records, those 1:20:58.800 --> 1:21:02.479 first two records anyway, were rehearsed and we went in 1:21:02.520 --> 1:21:05.120 and we executed. We were looking for versions of them, 1:21:05.680 --> 1:21:08.840 and so that kind of erases the red light fever. 1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:09.439 A little bit. 1:21:10.040 --> 1:21:14.960 And he was really a beautiful guy to work with. 1:21:15.200 --> 1:21:18.240 He would come into the studio and listen, and he'd 1:21:18.280 --> 1:21:20.280 go back in the tracking room, come back in the 1:21:20.320 --> 1:21:23.479 studio and listen, and then go back. And he said, 1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:26.719 what I'm doing is I'm making it sound in there 1:21:27.080 --> 1:21:29.559 like it sounds in here. And he had that great 1:21:30.520 --> 1:21:33.200 ability to do that. He did it with Keith Richards, 1:21:33.240 --> 1:21:36.400 he worked with the Traveling Wilbury's, he worked with Tom Petty. 1:21:36.520 --> 1:21:39.000 He was like a live guy. So it was a 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:43.440 great experience and I really think it for our trajectory 1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:46.720 of recording from there on out. It really set us 1:21:46.800 --> 1:21:50.920 up with knowing what a great high watermark looked like. 1:21:52.520 --> 1:21:56.400 Absolutely a lot of times the first record is done 1:21:57.160 --> 1:22:00.479 and when they get the actual product at the end, 1:22:00.520 --> 1:22:04.200 the being says, this isn't really who we are, or 1:22:04.280 --> 1:22:08.240 we were naive. Were you guys totally satisfied, or were 1:22:08.240 --> 1:22:11.760 you such newbies? Were you so green that you felt that, 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:14.880 wait a second, we should have pushed harder for something. 1:22:15.560 --> 1:22:18.400 I personally thought. I personally thought it was the greatest 1:22:18.400 --> 1:22:21.160 thing since slice bread. I couldn't believe that that was 1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:25.160 us I couldn't wait to play it for friends in 1:22:25.160 --> 1:22:30.439 those days, Bob's you know your setup for the record. 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:32.720 You know, we had a release and it was like 1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:36.360 we were finished in like March, maybe end of February, 1:22:37.320 --> 1:22:41.080 and then we had to wait five months before anyone 1:22:41.320 --> 1:22:45.519 before it came out. So I was chuffed about it personally. 1:22:46.439 --> 1:22:50.680 Yeah, me too. I was so excited. I loved the 1:22:50.760 --> 1:22:54.360 experience working with Don and when we got those mixes back, 1:22:55.320 --> 1:23:00.519 I was blown away. The thing you just described about 1:23:01.600 --> 1:23:05.680 feeling dissatisfied or this doesn't represent us. I think I 1:23:05.760 --> 1:23:08.400 felt that way a little bit about the Baby Blue 1:23:08.439 --> 1:23:13.240 record that proceeded at the EP, because I don't think 1:23:13.280 --> 1:23:15.479 that we even thought we were making a record when 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:18.439 we went in to do it, so the song selection 1:23:18.520 --> 1:23:23.439 and everything else. But having said that, just having a 1:23:23.479 --> 1:23:26.960 record meant it was such credibility at that time that 1:23:27.000 --> 1:23:30.200 you had an album out. We were pretty excited and 1:23:30.280 --> 1:23:33.680 it was something to show your parents, like see this, 1:23:34.400 --> 1:23:36.000 you know we're doing it. 1:23:36.600 --> 1:23:41.040 Yeah, so okay, you have the cover with the scratch polaroids. 1:23:41.320 --> 1:23:42.400 How did that come to be? 1:23:45.120 --> 1:23:49.240 That was suggested to us. Michael Going was the photographer 1:23:49.320 --> 1:23:52.920 and he was known for mostly photographing like golf courses 1:23:52.960 --> 1:23:59.160 and travel destinations and things. But he was suggested and 1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:04.080 I got to be the the shepherd on art projects. 1:24:04.360 --> 1:24:06.400 So the you know, I wouldn't say it was the 1:24:06.520 --> 1:24:09.040 art director for the band, but I was the shepherd. 1:24:09.120 --> 1:24:11.080 Yeah, yeah, you were, Yeah, you were. You're the art 1:24:11.120 --> 1:24:13.240 director for that, Yeah, definitely. 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:17.679 So he he was suggested and his photographs were beautiful. 1:24:18.000 --> 1:24:22.840 I'd seen his work before in a an airplane magazine, 1:24:23.120 --> 1:24:25.680 you know, one of those flight magazines, in flight magazines, 1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:29.479 and yeah, he was a great guy. He just came 1:24:29.520 --> 1:24:31.080 on the road for a couple of days and did 1:24:31.120 --> 1:24:35.720 portraits of us, took some live shots and a fantastic 1:24:35.800 --> 1:24:42.519 guy and interesting, interesting art. But at that point I 1:24:42.600 --> 1:24:45.680 was not an art art director really. I was just 1:24:46.960 --> 1:24:49.800 I was a go between. The directord company was kind 1:24:49.800 --> 1:24:51.880 of this is what we're going to do, and I 1:24:51.880 --> 1:24:55.600 would I would nod a lot. I wasn't given the 1:24:55.720 --> 1:24:57.120 chance out of the gate. 1:24:57.920 --> 1:25:01.880 Okay, So it is implied, and I want to dot 1:25:01.960 --> 1:25:07.400 the I that the publishing is shared amongst the band. 1:25:07.960 --> 1:25:09.040 A is that true? 1:25:10.120 --> 1:25:10.719 True? Yes? 1:25:11.360 --> 1:25:15.120 Okay, at this late date, most of people know when 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:18.280 it comes to the actual recordings, most of the money 1:25:18.320 --> 1:25:24.000 is in the songs that bands break up over that. Certainly, 1:25:24.040 --> 1:25:27.200 certain bands, certain members are much wealthier because they wrote 1:25:27.240 --> 1:25:30.760 the songs. How did you guys decide that the publishing 1:25:30.840 --> 1:25:31.639 would be shared. 1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:36.160 We were in Paul Langui's basement and we had just 1:25:36.320 --> 1:25:40.920 received cassette tape mixes about to hear this is my 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:44.760 recollection of it anyways, and we sat down and had 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:48.960 the conversation about it, and it was decided. Although Gord 1:25:49.040 --> 1:25:55.680 Sinclair was still probably the pre eminent songwriter amongst us, 1:25:57.240 --> 1:26:00.519 Gord Downey was starting to write a lot more lyrics 1:26:00.840 --> 1:26:05.439 and there is a lot more collaboration and five way 1:26:05.479 --> 1:26:08.840 collaboration happening. We all want to be songwriters. We just thought. 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:12.160 We sat down at the meeting, we just said, if 1:26:13.439 --> 1:26:16.920 this will eliminate a lot of fights, sharing everything equally, 1:26:17.680 --> 1:26:21.320 deciding whose song gets picked as a single is going 1:26:21.400 --> 1:26:25.160 to create a fight. Having someone's song take off and 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:27.120 be a hit. They're going to show up at the 1:26:27.160 --> 1:26:29.920 next gig in a Mercedes and everyone else is going 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:32.920 to be taking the bus, and it's like, you know, 1:26:33.600 --> 1:26:38.479 that's the recipe for a disaster. So we always thought 1:26:38.800 --> 1:26:40.519 the only way we're going to make it as a 1:26:40.560 --> 1:26:45.160 band is by lasting. We even even Bruce Dickinson when 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:47.280 he signed us, he said, you're not the type of 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:48.880 band that I'm going to sign and you're going to 1:26:48.960 --> 1:26:51.240 have a big hit on your first record. You're the 1:26:51.280 --> 1:26:53.880 type of band that's going to take four or five 1:26:54.040 --> 1:26:59.040 records to build some kind of critical mass. And you're 1:26:59.080 --> 1:27:01.439 going to do that through laying live, by doing what 1:27:01.479 --> 1:27:05.040 you do, writing the songs you write, and by delivering 1:27:05.320 --> 1:27:09.120 those songs live. And he wasn't wrong. I just I 1:27:09.240 --> 1:27:13.519 feel sad that I don't think bands now get that 1:27:13.640 --> 1:27:15.040 opportunity necessarily. 1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:20.760 Okay, the first album comes out, what are your expectations 1:27:20.800 --> 1:27:22.680 and what actually happens? 1:27:23.640 --> 1:27:26.599 I think maybe the first you know, the Baby Blue record, 1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:28.760 and I agree with what Robbie's saying. It was just like, 1:27:30.200 --> 1:27:32.360 here's the record. We're going to put a record out, 1:27:32.479 --> 1:27:35.120 according to Jake, and it's like okay, And he was right. 1:27:35.160 --> 1:27:40.000 It got us from Halifax to Victoria and that that 1:27:40.240 --> 1:27:43.200 was what we needed. And then we come back to 1:27:43.200 --> 1:27:46.479 do this other record and we put it out and 1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:49.040 we knew it was a full length record because as 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:51.920 Robbie said, we refer to that as the Baby blue 1:27:51.920 --> 1:27:55.760 record because it's just really an EP. So we were 1:27:55.800 --> 1:28:00.519 looking to maybe you know, bump up in venues size 1:28:00.880 --> 1:28:04.559 and play to more people. And that didn't happen right away. 1:28:05.120 --> 1:28:08.960 In fact, something that happened we started to get into 1:28:08.960 --> 1:28:13.880 the States because it was more of a you know, 1:28:14.520 --> 1:28:17.200 MCA was pushing us down there at first. And I 1:28:17.240 --> 1:28:23.800 remember we played in sort of Wilkesburg, Pennsylvania, and we 1:28:23.840 --> 1:28:27.960 didn't play to very many people, or maybe it was Indiana, Bloomington, Indiana, 1:28:28.000 --> 1:28:33.920 I think, and yeah, and Dave Powell came in and said, guys, 1:28:35.160 --> 1:28:38.320 hard times out there, I know, but guess what back home, 1:28:38.439 --> 1:28:43.960 you're about to go gold with up to here. So 1:28:44.120 --> 1:28:46.519 while we were down to the States, the radio was 1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:50.920 doing its thing, Jake was doing his thing, and it 1:28:51.000 --> 1:28:53.720 was starting to get some traction. So we had that 1:28:53.800 --> 1:28:56.400 little baby blue record and then we were going in 1:28:56.439 --> 1:28:59.880 the right direction, you know, and so up to here 1:29:00.240 --> 1:29:03.000 was taken us up to there and it was it 1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:05.640 felt good, but we didn't really know that until we 1:29:05.640 --> 1:29:08.200 were down in the States playing a few people. And 1:29:08.200 --> 1:29:10.599 then of course that becomes a story later on. 1:29:11.040 --> 1:29:14.559 You know. Yeah, as you said earlier, Bobby, you're talking 1:29:14.560 --> 1:29:18.600 about connection with the audience and how important that was 1:29:18.640 --> 1:29:22.400 to us playing to those four people in Bloomington, Indiana. 1:29:22.760 --> 1:29:25.160 There's a gig in Hoboken, New Jersey where we played 1:29:25.200 --> 1:29:28.439 to two people and that you know, we got up 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:30.920 and delivered. We gave him a full show. We didn't 1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:35.320 pull any punches. It was like, it doesn't matter two people, 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:39.280 two thousand people, you're still performing and you give it 1:29:39.320 --> 1:29:42.599 everything you've got. And those two people came to probably 1:29:42.760 --> 1:29:47.599 sixty shows after that over the years, so there were 1:29:48.120 --> 1:29:52.040 lifelong fans. Same with two of the guys from Bloomington, Indiana. 1:29:52.439 --> 1:29:55.200 We were so excited. We thought it was John Mellencamp 1:29:55.200 --> 1:29:57.559 going to come to our gig tonight. He didn't make 1:29:57.600 --> 1:30:00.400 it that night. Now four people showed up, but one 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:04.200 guy smashed his chair demanding an encore and he got it. 1:30:05.360 --> 1:30:17.920 So okay, first album runs in cycle. At what point 1:30:18.040 --> 1:30:21.639 do you start thinking about the second album and what's 1:30:21.640 --> 1:30:24.160 the experience of recording the second album. 1:30:24.840 --> 1:30:28.799 Well, there's one thing that happened. We were we were 1:30:30.040 --> 1:30:34.679 doing some shows, you know, you know, in the States 1:30:34.720 --> 1:30:37.280 and back in Canada, but we were keeping in touch 1:30:37.360 --> 1:30:40.679 with with Dawn Smith. He would phone, you know, phone 1:30:40.720 --> 1:30:44.120 us up and and see how we were doing. And uh, 1:30:44.560 --> 1:30:46.800 I remember I had a conversation with him. It was 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:51.360 really interesting because he said, we're going to do another record, right, 1:30:52.400 --> 1:30:58.400 So I got a guy on the inside at uh 1:30:58.520 --> 1:31:02.960 Ampex take and they've got a really good batch of 1:31:03.080 --> 1:31:06.480 tape because back in those days it was the adhesive 1:31:06.760 --> 1:31:09.720 on the tape, and so they would talk to the 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:12.679 guys in the factory and he said, Petty just got 1:31:12.760 --> 1:31:15.600 a hole. He got one hundred rolls of tape and 1:31:15.640 --> 1:31:17.519 he goes, I'm going to get this guy to send 1:31:17.560 --> 1:31:20.960 twenty extra roles of this good batch because we're going 1:31:21.040 --> 1:31:24.720 to make another album. So we didn't know where, we 1:31:24.760 --> 1:31:29.400 didn't know when, but Don Smith is collecting tape because 1:31:29.439 --> 1:31:32.639 he's wanting to work with us again. And that felt 1:31:32.640 --> 1:31:37.720 pretty great too, and so we sort of started the 1:31:37.720 --> 1:31:42.280 ball rolling on that one. We're in the tour for 1:31:42.479 --> 1:31:46.680 up to hear we're talking about the next record. We 1:31:46.800 --> 1:31:50.519 haven't written many tunes. There's like gams going on in 1:31:50.560 --> 1:31:56.120 the stage, but you know, later on we're starting to 1:31:56.360 --> 1:32:00.840 you know, we borrow people's houses to do you know, 1:32:01.400 --> 1:32:03.160 a little bit of writing here and a little bit 1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:06.400 of writing there. Somebody's cottage. Somebody's parents are away. So 1:32:06.840 --> 1:32:10.800 we're thinking of the second record, but we haven't sort 1:32:10.800 --> 1:32:12.439 of figured it all out, but we want to work 1:32:12.479 --> 1:32:15.200 with Down again. That's kind of how it started. 1:32:16.680 --> 1:32:20.360 The record is cut. What's your experience when the record 1:32:20.479 --> 1:32:20.920 is done? 1:32:23.280 --> 1:32:24.120 The second album? 1:32:24.360 --> 1:32:29.920 Yeah, I think we're all aware of kind of the 1:32:29.960 --> 1:32:35.559 sophomore curse, and I think it's almost expected, you know, 1:32:35.640 --> 1:32:38.160 as they say, every band spends years writing their first 1:32:38.200 --> 1:32:43.000 record and then they're not really prepared for their second record, And. 1:32:44.560 --> 1:32:46.640 On some level that may have been true. But I 1:32:47.479 --> 1:32:49.360 really think that we were going in with a solid 1:32:49.360 --> 1:32:52.760 batch of songs and we were much more relaxed in 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:57.200 the studio and stretched out a bit, and I think 1:32:57.240 --> 1:33:00.680 the second record showed a lot of growth from the first. 1:33:01.520 --> 1:33:05.439 And we're with Down, which we just knew that it 1:33:05.439 --> 1:33:09.240 would sound great, you know. We really trusted in Down 1:33:10.800 --> 1:33:16.160 fully and completely. He was a yeah, just a master, 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:19.679 and he put us at ease, and we relaxed into 1:33:19.720 --> 1:33:23.680 the process and just had at it, and we came 1:33:23.720 --> 1:33:27.000 out of there again feeling like this is we don't 1:33:27.040 --> 1:33:30.000 know how it's going to be received, but we're really 1:33:30.040 --> 1:33:33.639 happy with this. This It reflects where we are now, 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:38.280 and it was also felt a little closer to our 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:44.400 live show, just being able to stretch out and take 1:33:44.479 --> 1:33:51.200 songs in different directions on stage. So we just immediately 1:33:51.200 --> 1:33:54.679 said about touring like there were a few years there 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:59.839 from before up to here through the end of Fully Completely, 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:03.160 where we were probably playing two hundred shows a year. 1:34:05.240 --> 1:34:10.200 So okay, you don't use Don Smith on the subsequent album. Why. 1:34:12.320 --> 1:34:16.679 I think some of it was that Don was very 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:22.400 Don's approach was about trying to capture the live sound 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:26.000 of the band, and he was really focused on the 1:34:26.120 --> 1:34:28.760 kick drum and the bass and the interaction and the 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:33.640 micing and getting a live feel. But he wasn't so 1:34:33.840 --> 1:34:40.439 focused on lyrics, and I think Gord, as an aspiring poet, 1:34:40.520 --> 1:34:44.960 wanted a little bit more involvement with someone in that respect. 1:34:46.080 --> 1:34:49.200 I don't think Chris was the guy that was going 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:52.840 to give it to him Chris Anderides, but I think 1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:55.719 it was felt like we've done two records with Don, 1:34:55.800 --> 1:35:01.080 we should try something different, and going from Memphis to 1:35:01.200 --> 1:35:02.960 New Orleans, it felt like there was a bit of 1:35:02.960 --> 1:35:11.240 a this search for the source happening, and London felt 1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:13.519 like the next step in the search for the source. 1:35:13.760 --> 1:35:16.760 Because it was the London bar scene from the mid 1:35:16.840 --> 1:35:21.960 sixties or early sixties that really informed our initial approach 1:35:22.000 --> 1:35:26.360 as a band, So going to London seemed like a 1:35:26.360 --> 1:35:28.679 good choice, and we just kind of put feelers out 1:35:28.720 --> 1:35:32.080 for who might be interested in doing the record, and 1:35:32.200 --> 1:35:35.000 Chris Sanrin's was one of the people because we loved 1:35:35.040 --> 1:35:41.640 his work with Concrete Blonde, and he was so instantaneous 1:35:41.680 --> 1:35:45.120 in his enthusiasm. He said, when's your next show, I'll 1:35:45.200 --> 1:35:46.920 fly over. I want to be there, I want to 1:35:46.960 --> 1:35:51.080 see it, and he was Yeah, he bowled us over 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:53.559 with his enthusiasm, and that's all it took. 1:35:54.960 --> 1:35:57.120 The record has done. How do you feel about the 1:35:57.160 --> 1:35:59.639 record compared to the record you did with Don. 1:36:01.160 --> 1:36:03.479 It was I think it took for me a little 1:36:03.520 --> 1:36:06.160 bit of digesting. You know. It was a different work 1:36:06.200 --> 1:36:13.680 ethic too. Uh. Chris was very nine to five and he, uh, 1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:17.240 you know, Fridays were kind of a wash. You know, 1:36:17.320 --> 1:36:21.240 you'd have lunch, tea and then things you kind of 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:25.120 wind down. Then we had uh, you know, Friday night, Saturday, 1:36:25.200 --> 1:36:27.000 Sunday night. We were on our own. There was no 1:36:27.120 --> 1:36:30.439 sort of access to the studio with down we worked. 1:36:31.120 --> 1:36:34.920 We worked on a Saturday and then we we do 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:36.920 a lot of listening with Don. That was the other 1:36:37.000 --> 1:36:40.320 thing is we knew what we had and Don would 1:36:40.360 --> 1:36:43.200 listen to what we were saying. And if he heard 1:36:43.200 --> 1:36:45.439 Gord Sinclair and I say, oh we can get that better, 1:36:45.520 --> 1:36:47.800 he'd say, Okay, let's track it again tomorrow. Let's have 1:36:47.880 --> 1:36:50.360 no problem, let's do it. Let's keep pushing it, keep 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:53.120 pushing it. With Chris, it was not like that. It 1:36:53.200 --> 1:36:57.559 was very British, you know. The Brits have that way 1:36:57.600 --> 1:37:00.000 of doing it. It's like we're going to do the game, 1:37:00.200 --> 1:37:03.400 get the bed track, the backing track, then we're going 1:37:03.479 --> 1:37:06.960 to do the guitars. And then they don't fluff around. 1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:10.880 They just they get it. And then they're already booked 1:37:10.880 --> 1:37:15.360 for their next gig. So we're going to finish on 1:37:16.160 --> 1:37:19.680 the fifteenth of January. Is when we're done, when we 1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:22.280 go to mix, and the mix is the balance. They 1:37:22.360 --> 1:37:26.800 also erase tracks britz that we to. You know, when 1:37:26.920 --> 1:37:29.160 the guys we've worked with they don't need it and 1:37:29.200 --> 1:37:31.519 they don't hear it, they erase it, and when they 1:37:31.560 --> 1:37:34.759 go to mix, it's just a balanced mix of everything 1:37:34.800 --> 1:37:38.240 that's there that they've done. And if you're very focused 1:37:38.280 --> 1:37:42.240 on it. It's great. They don't like to add stuff. 1:37:42.240 --> 1:37:43.720 You can't come in and say, well, I want to 1:37:43.760 --> 1:37:45.559 do this, I want to do that, And we were 1:37:45.640 --> 1:37:48.800 kind of getting into that. I loved the record with Chris, 1:37:48.840 --> 1:37:53.559 but I really didn't know what we had until maybe 1:37:53.680 --> 1:37:57.160 we were on tour. I had no idea how it 1:37:57.200 --> 1:38:00.759 was going to be received. 1:38:00.920 --> 1:38:04.000 Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. You know. We 1:38:04.040 --> 1:38:07.639 spent three and a half weeks doing bass and drums, 1:38:08.040 --> 1:38:11.479 and I did all my guitar parts in just over 1:38:11.520 --> 1:38:15.639 two days, and then we never sat back and listened 1:38:16.160 --> 1:38:18.920 like a listening party or you just don't know what 1:38:18.920 --> 1:38:21.040 you've got, and then you get a cassette tape a 1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:25.679 couple of weeks later and it's like, oh, really interesting, 1:38:25.720 --> 1:38:27.720 and you have to listen a bunch of times. But 1:38:27.920 --> 1:38:31.679 with the previous records, you left the studio knowing exactly 1:38:31.720 --> 1:38:34.080 what you had. You come out feeling a little bit 1:38:34.640 --> 1:38:38.080 shattered as a musician, because you should be, you should 1:38:38.080 --> 1:38:41.360 feel a little shattered after a recording experience, but also 1:38:41.400 --> 1:38:45.799 feeling really confident in the songs fully. Completely. Was definitely 1:38:45.800 --> 1:38:48.920 a change from that, and I remember thinking that the 1:38:49.000 --> 1:38:55.240 songs that were less developed, really developed with Chris, and 1:38:55.320 --> 1:38:59.679 the songs that were already strong live didn't jump forward 1:38:59.680 --> 1:39:04.080 as much much as I thought they would. But now 1:39:04.120 --> 1:39:07.000 with the you know, with the perspective of time, I 1:39:07.080 --> 1:39:09.240 think it's a fine record. I think it was you know, 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:12.639 a good a good effort, and Chris did a fantastic job. 1:39:12.920 --> 1:39:14.800 But it was a strange experience to make. 1:39:15.439 --> 1:39:18.080 It was great. And you know what else happened, Robbie. 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:21.439 Remember we were working with Chris and we were in 1:39:21.479 --> 1:39:25.639 this great studio that was used to be called Morgan Studio. 1:39:25.800 --> 1:39:30.479 So Zeppelin had been in there the faces and then 1:39:30.520 --> 1:39:33.479 they expanded it and became part of the Zomba music 1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:37.439 group and they built studio on studio on studio. So 1:39:37.479 --> 1:39:40.200 it was a bit bit of a complex. And one 1:39:40.280 --> 1:39:42.639 day where there's this singlish, very English guy and he's 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:45.320 great to have you here, and we'd see him every day, 1:39:45.360 --> 1:39:48.880 and you know, as time went on, his enthusiasm was 1:39:48.960 --> 1:39:54.200 kind of, oh hello, gents. One day, one day he 1:39:54.280 --> 1:39:57.600 comes in and whispers in Chris's ear, and Chris is 1:39:57.640 --> 1:40:01.839 like what who oh, come on, and he and then 1:40:02.040 --> 1:40:05.639 the guy came back in and and Chris said, okay, well, 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:11.400 they booked the studio with Daryl Hall. He's coming in 1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:14.920 and they know they shouldn't have done that, but they're 1:40:15.000 --> 1:40:18.280 moving us to the studio up the road. The good 1:40:18.320 --> 1:40:21.320 news is that's where they did the guitars were back 1:40:21.360 --> 1:40:24.120 in black. So we went up there and you guys 1:40:24.120 --> 1:40:28.880 did your guitars at a different studio, and Chris Anderitas 1:40:29.000 --> 1:40:33.120 was like that ruddy Daryl Hall is in our studio 1:40:34.120 --> 1:40:36.240 and fuck him, you know, And so we had a 1:40:36.240 --> 1:40:38.720 good we had a good laugh about that, but we 1:40:38.760 --> 1:40:41.559 got booted out of the studio because he called him 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:46.960 Daryl Ball. It was. But Chris was a beautiful man. 1:40:47.040 --> 1:40:51.800 He was, he was, He was great. And yeah, Robbie's right, like, 1:40:52.160 --> 1:40:57.360 I don't think we really kind of knew the you know, 1:40:57.479 --> 1:40:59.400 kind of record that we had until it was being 1:40:59.400 --> 1:41:04.719 played on the radio and Encourage got leaked, which gave 1:41:04.960 --> 1:41:07.719 a little bit of a pump to it, and Jake 1:41:07.800 --> 1:41:11.759 had to break some arms to get it. Radio stations 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:14.400 to stop playing it because it wasn't part of the setup. 1:41:14.479 --> 1:41:22.439 And yeah, stop playing our record was a different problem 1:41:22.479 --> 1:41:22.760 to have. 1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:25.519 Yeah, yeah, until we're ready to put it. 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:37.360 Out, okay, you end up essentially self producing thereafter, But 1:41:37.560 --> 1:41:40.400 then you go to work with Steve Berlin, and in 1:41:40.479 --> 1:41:44.360 the documentary, you guys are testifying about Steve Berlin, how 1:41:44.400 --> 1:41:47.280 great he was for the band. Hey, why did you 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:50.439 decide to use an outside producer again? And what was 1:41:50.479 --> 1:41:52.639 that experience like that made it so great? 1:41:54.040 --> 1:41:56.719 No, I just remembered it was a suggestion of Jake's. 1:41:56.760 --> 1:41:59.799 We were on tour and we had done one record 1:41:59.840 --> 1:42:04.000 like that, and I think Jake sort of was smart 1:42:04.080 --> 1:42:08.280 enough to know, you know, I think you need a producer. 1:42:08.800 --> 1:42:12.720 You've already tracked some stuff. I think Steve Berlin would 1:42:12.760 --> 1:42:16.040 be great. He brought him on the bus and we 1:42:16.120 --> 1:42:19.760 knew him with Lost Lobos and Robbie will tell you 1:42:19.760 --> 1:42:20.760 about that whole thing. 1:42:22.600 --> 1:42:27.760 Yeah, the making of Trouble at the Henhouse, I think 1:42:27.800 --> 1:42:30.240 that it was a good record and it was necessary 1:42:30.320 --> 1:42:35.360 for us to self produce necessary exercise. We had our 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:38.600 own studio by this point are the Clubhouse, which we 1:42:39.320 --> 1:42:42.960 made into a bit of a studio, and it was 1:42:43.000 --> 1:42:46.040 important that we do that. But it was a tough album, 1:42:46.240 --> 1:42:50.759 and I think it exposed some fractures in the band, 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:54.680 and there was jocking for position power and who's going 1:42:54.720 --> 1:42:57.599 to be closest to the producer's seed and who's going 1:42:57.640 --> 1:43:01.080 to make these calls? Because when you're in a five 1:43:01.160 --> 1:43:04.640 way collaboration, you know, imagine five people trying to do 1:43:04.680 --> 1:43:09.360 a painting together, and once one guy has a big, great, 1:43:09.439 --> 1:43:12.719 big brush and he wants to paint everything black. It's 1:43:12.920 --> 1:43:16.920 you know, you get into creative differences. This is how 1:43:16.960 --> 1:43:21.479 it happens. And we just felt having an outside arbiter 1:43:23.360 --> 1:43:27.120 who could make the call, had worked for us in 1:43:27.160 --> 1:43:30.439 the past and would work for us again. And it did. 1:43:30.760 --> 1:43:34.240 And because we knew Steve Berlin from the roadside Attraction 1:43:34.320 --> 1:43:38.760 tours where Los Lobos came out on the road with us, 1:43:39.280 --> 1:43:41.920 he just seemed like a natural guy. We just got 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:44.519 along famously with him, and he stepped in. He knew 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:49.040 how bands work, he knows about the dysfunction that happens 1:43:49.040 --> 1:43:53.680 in bands and what his role would be and he 1:43:53.800 --> 1:43:57.679 just slipped into it very naturally. And he's and again 1:43:57.920 --> 1:43:59.920 a beautiful guy and part of the Hit family. 1:44:00.080 --> 1:44:07.320 So Okay, at what point does the Tragically Hip become 1:44:07.439 --> 1:44:11.480 Canada's band and become the biggest rock band in Canada? 1:44:12.080 --> 1:44:15.000 And is that palpable? Do you feel it? 1:44:19.680 --> 1:44:23.439 Uh? I've never bought into much of any of that. 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:29.000 I don't. I don't know legacy stuff and the biggest 1:44:29.040 --> 1:44:31.720 band in the country. You know what about Rush, They're 1:44:31.720 --> 1:44:33.840 the biggest band. 1:44:34.360 --> 1:44:38.840 You've always been huge Canadian acts, but the relationship that 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:43.320 Canada had with the Tragically hip was different and that 1:44:43.400 --> 1:44:47.600 the country really owned them. And as I say, this 1:44:47.680 --> 1:44:50.120 is from the outside, so I guess I'm asking, were 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:53.679 you just seeing yourself as another arena band in Canada 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:56.559 or were you seeing yourself as something different. 1:44:57.760 --> 1:45:01.599 I don't think we've ever viewed ourselves as something extra special. 1:45:02.160 --> 1:45:05.400 There's so many great talents in this country. We're just 1:45:05.479 --> 1:45:08.040 kind of look at it like we're happy to be 1:45:08.120 --> 1:45:10.160 part of it. But I don't think anyone's like, yeah, 1:45:10.479 --> 1:45:12.280 I mean some of the things that happened and some 1:45:12.320 --> 1:45:14.400 of the people that wear your T shirts. She's like, 1:45:14.640 --> 1:45:17.519 did you see that? It was a young young swimmer 1:45:18.200 --> 1:45:21.920 who won some Olympic medals. She's seventeen years old. Her 1:45:22.040 --> 1:45:25.360 name is Summer McIntosh. I remember watching TV and her 1:45:25.439 --> 1:45:27.320 I think her dad was wearing a hip shirt. I 1:45:27.360 --> 1:45:32.120 was like, that is super super cool because her daughter 1:45:32.320 --> 1:45:35.760 is a star and what the hell are we doing 1:45:35.800 --> 1:45:38.599 on her Dad's T shirt and I thought, wow, that 1:45:38.680 --> 1:45:41.000 was that. You know, you have little brushes like that. 1:45:41.120 --> 1:45:43.000 But I don't think we ever sort of said, oh, 1:45:43.040 --> 1:45:45.840 you know, that's it. I agree with Robbie. You know, 1:45:46.160 --> 1:45:49.320 the Pope was in our film Geddy Lee. It's like 1:45:49.479 --> 1:45:52.720 the Godfather, like you know when he speaks, and that 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:57.040 guy knows it very smart. He's a very smart businessman. 1:45:57.160 --> 1:46:02.120 He's a very incredible bass player. My god, and to 1:46:02.120 --> 1:46:04.400 have him in the movie, it's just like with all 1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:07.560 the other people, it's just like amazing, amazing. 1:46:07.960 --> 1:46:11.080 Okay, you have this great success, but you're working two 1:46:11.120 --> 1:46:14.160 hundred nights of a year on the road, you're recording music. 1:46:14.920 --> 1:46:17.680 At what point do you get a check? At what 1:46:17.760 --> 1:46:19.960 point do you say, I put in this hard work, 1:46:20.680 --> 1:46:23.080 I'm actually seeing some money. And what did you do 1:46:23.160 --> 1:46:23.759 with the money? 1:46:27.920 --> 1:46:33.000 I bought a house, still living, been here for thirty 1:46:33.040 --> 1:46:39.920 five years, same house. You know. It wasn't like, you know, 1:46:40.520 --> 1:46:44.559 being a big Canadian rock star is like being the 1:46:44.560 --> 1:46:52.080 world's tallest midget. It's not quite a global phenomenon. We 1:46:52.080 --> 1:46:56.400 were doing just fine, and we were expanding, and we 1:46:56.400 --> 1:46:59.240 were playing a lot in Europe, and we had a 1:46:59.240 --> 1:47:01.280 good thing going on the States, playing too, like a 1:47:01.360 --> 1:47:05.240 thousand or fifteen hundred people every night, occasional arenas in 1:47:05.320 --> 1:47:10.080 some of the border cities. You know, things were good, 1:47:10.800 --> 1:47:13.519 and that was a time, you know, around day for 1:47:13.640 --> 1:47:15.760 night where we were actually, you know, you could make 1:47:15.800 --> 1:47:20.240 a little money off records, but it was always about 1:47:20.840 --> 1:47:26.639 playing live, touring live for us, and we were always 1:47:26.680 --> 1:47:31.240 focused on the tour, but also on what's next. What 1:47:31.720 --> 1:47:35.879 you know, we need songs for the next project, whatever 1:47:35.920 --> 1:47:38.559 that will be, and we just stayed focused on that. 1:47:38.880 --> 1:47:41.920 There was never a five year planned, ten year plan. 1:47:42.680 --> 1:47:45.080 It was more like a you know, a lot of 1:47:45.120 --> 1:47:48.920 it was a five minute plan or a five day plan. 1:47:50.240 --> 1:47:55.600 But you know, it's interesting also that Jake really was 1:47:55.640 --> 1:48:00.920 the guy who first said, here's your money, you're just 1:48:01.160 --> 1:48:04.479 don't spend it all in the same place. At the 1:48:04.560 --> 1:48:06.360 same time, he goes, you've got to live off of 1:48:06.400 --> 1:48:09.280 this hump for not a year, but a year and 1:48:09.320 --> 1:48:14.000 a half because you've still got to do some writing 1:48:14.120 --> 1:48:16.200 and then some recording. Then we go on the road. 1:48:16.240 --> 1:48:18.400 He was always conscious of us going to the trough 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:22.040 too many times. Now we've got to disappear, and back 1:48:22.080 --> 1:48:24.400 in those days you could disappear for a year and 1:48:24.479 --> 1:48:28.200 there'd be no media on you. You would just disappear. 1:48:28.640 --> 1:48:32.040 And if you weren't around, maybe people played your records 1:48:32.960 --> 1:48:35.439 a little more than because you weren't going to play 1:48:35.479 --> 1:48:39.640 some shows. But and the other thing is that I 1:48:39.680 --> 1:48:45.200 don't think the five year or three year planning, which 1:48:45.280 --> 1:48:47.280 is why we've got this movie and this great book 1:48:47.320 --> 1:48:52.040 that Robbie's worked on. The five year planning kicked in 1:48:52.320 --> 1:48:56.080 when the career after we played our final show, which 1:48:56.160 --> 1:48:59.640 is kind of cool because what we have is our 1:48:59.720 --> 1:49:04.200 music and that's our legacy, so we keep that chip shape. 1:49:04.200 --> 1:49:08.120 Then that's great, and that's Jake coming back into the 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:12.080 fold again. That that's when those we were we were 1:49:12.160 --> 1:49:14.760 kind of rudderless. The boat wasn't really it was just 1:49:14.840 --> 1:49:19.680 kind of floating around, and we knew we needed to 1:49:19.760 --> 1:49:25.600 get the tapes sorted out, our new old music digitized, 1:49:26.400 --> 1:49:31.240 and to just keep some things going. The movie, the 1:49:31.280 --> 1:49:34.400 book that was the That was when the five year 1:49:35.400 --> 1:49:38.160 plans started to kick in, which is kind of it's 1:49:38.200 --> 1:49:40.200 just cool because a lot of bands don't do that. 1:49:41.600 --> 1:49:46.280 Okay, you know this is something that is you can't 1:49:46.280 --> 1:49:50.080 see my ear quotes on audio, but Haunted the band 1:49:50.800 --> 1:49:54.679 for its entire career, that the success in the United 1:49:54.760 --> 1:49:57.920 States is not as big as the success north of 1:49:57.960 --> 1:50:01.560 the border. Mentioned a couple of time times in the documentary, 1:50:02.439 --> 1:50:06.720 to what degree are the two of you consciousness? Does 1:50:06.760 --> 1:50:11.080 it bother you? Do you not care? What are your thoughts? 1:50:13.960 --> 1:50:16.920 It doesn't bother me. I think we had a career 1:50:17.200 --> 1:50:22.360 that almost any US band would envy. That was our 1:50:22.360 --> 1:50:24.840 career in the States. You know, we're playing playing the 1:50:24.880 --> 1:50:29.320 Beacon Theater and the Fillmore in San Francisco, you know, 1:50:30.439 --> 1:50:36.360 Cobo Hall in Detroit. We were playing solid venues, doing 1:50:36.439 --> 1:50:42.599 great business. And how could the success be the same 1:50:42.640 --> 1:50:45.280 as it was in the States or as it was 1:50:45.320 --> 1:50:52.439 in Canada. You know, it just the story got magnified that, 1:50:52.640 --> 1:50:56.519 you know, nothing's happening for themselves at the border. And 1:50:56.800 --> 1:51:01.440 a lot of this is perpetuated by natural Canadian inferiority 1:51:01.439 --> 1:51:05.599 complex that Canadians say, oh, he's really good, this Neil 1:51:05.640 --> 1:51:09.200 Young is good, but you know he had to go 1:51:09.240 --> 1:51:11.760 to the States to make it, or what's he doing 1:51:11.800 --> 1:51:16.120 in America? That everything is you know, the only stamp 1:51:16.160 --> 1:51:19.519 of approval is well, they're doing well in America, And 1:51:20.479 --> 1:51:23.840 that never really mattered to us. Because I don't think 1:51:23.880 --> 1:51:26.320 we thought so much about the border that way. They're 1:51:26.360 --> 1:51:29.320 obvious we took the border very seriously, trust me. But 1:51:32.680 --> 1:51:35.680 it was just people playing to people. And there are 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:38.400 a lot more people in America, and they're just like 1:51:38.439 --> 1:51:41.000 the people up here, and they're a lot like the 1:51:41.040 --> 1:51:44.360 people in Europe. People are people, and they respond to 1:51:44.400 --> 1:51:47.080 the same type of things. They want, you know, a 1:51:47.120 --> 1:51:50.280 lot of them want some kind of authentic expression and 1:51:50.360 --> 1:51:53.559 something they can connect to, and we just focused on 1:51:53.640 --> 1:51:59.559 that that. The rest of it is a story, you know, 1:51:59.600 --> 1:52:04.280 and when journalists after journalist comes to you with this, 1:52:04.280 --> 1:52:07.160 this is a this is the story I'd been told 1:52:07.200 --> 1:52:11.040 to write about the discrepancy between your success in Canada 1:52:11.080 --> 1:52:13.720 and the US. It does get in your head, and 1:52:13.880 --> 1:52:19.439 it does, it does affect you. But I never really 1:52:19.439 --> 1:52:23.040 took a lot of it too too seriously. I think 1:52:23.040 --> 1:52:24.680 we had a great career in the States. 1:52:25.120 --> 1:52:28.280 I agree. And as we were growing up as a 1:52:28.320 --> 1:52:32.759 band and things were, uh, you know, we're watching bands 1:52:32.880 --> 1:52:37.960 in the US. There was one band, the Smithereens, and 1:52:38.000 --> 1:52:42.439 there are guitar band and and I remember you know 1:52:42.560 --> 1:52:46.439 them being on MTV and and uh, and then we 1:52:46.479 --> 1:52:49.880 started playing in the States, and I remember there were 1:52:49.880 --> 1:52:52.799 a couple of cities that we played that we played 1:52:53.800 --> 1:52:57.200 the same venue, and I was like, you know, you're 1:52:57.240 --> 1:53:01.360 you're not always getting all the information the correct in about, 1:53:01.520 --> 1:53:05.240 you know, you know, the myth of the hip. We didn't. 1:53:05.280 --> 1:53:08.720 We weren't playing as big places down there, but we 1:53:09.080 --> 1:53:13.800 had a good, healthy following, you know, we had little 1:53:13.840 --> 1:53:15.240 pockets that we were doing well. 1:53:16.000 --> 1:53:19.320 The Blues Traveler guys I remember being they came out 1:53:19.360 --> 1:53:22.160 with us. They opened a whole whack of shows for 1:53:22.320 --> 1:53:25.360 US across Canada and in Europe, and we went down 1:53:25.400 --> 1:53:27.360 to the States and opened some shows for them at 1:53:27.439 --> 1:53:31.240 Red Rocks and run around. It was huge on the 1:53:31.320 --> 1:53:35.920 radio for them, big pop hit. And asked John Popper, 1:53:37.720 --> 1:53:39.679 what's it like, you know, you just had a big 1:53:39.760 --> 1:53:44.559 breakout single and suddenly you're playing to like fifteen twenty 1:53:44.600 --> 1:53:48.400 thousand people. What's it like? And he said, it's really 1:53:48.920 --> 1:53:52.160 it's really nice. It's a lot like it was before 1:53:52.200 --> 1:53:55.200 this happened. And in three months we'll be playing the 1:53:55.240 --> 1:53:59.599 five thousand people again. I thought, that's exactly right. He said, 1:53:59.640 --> 1:54:01.320 we were just going to enjoy this well at last, 1:54:01.360 --> 1:54:03.200 because it's going to go back to the way it was, 1:54:04.000 --> 1:54:07.320 and I thought, yeah, that's really grounded. That's the right response. 1:54:07.360 --> 1:54:09.439 You're doing it for the right reasons. It's not. You're 1:54:09.479 --> 1:54:14.559 not chasing some you know, brass ring that you'd keep 1:54:14.720 --> 1:54:18.080 reaching for and can't hang on to. You're you're doing 1:54:18.080 --> 1:54:21.080 it for the music and the camaraderie and the connection 1:54:21.400 --> 1:54:22.160 and community. 1:54:22.360 --> 1:54:27.160 So, okay, how did both of you find out that 1:54:27.320 --> 1:54:31.240 Gourde was ill? Gord Downy And when it was presented 1:54:31.280 --> 1:54:33.280 to you, was it that he was going to die 1:54:34.120 --> 1:54:35.240 or what he's ill? 1:54:35.480 --> 1:54:42.360 Let's see, I found out well, I found out through 1:54:42.640 --> 1:54:47.680 uh our our management at the time had said that 1:54:47.720 --> 1:54:51.000 he had had a seizure and that he was in 1:54:51.120 --> 1:54:54.480 Kingston and they were they were sort of doing a 1:54:54.520 --> 1:54:57.400 biopsy and they was sort of having a having a 1:54:57.400 --> 1:55:00.080 look at what was going on, and then you know, 1:55:00.200 --> 1:55:02.720 just to sit tight. And that was the first I'd 1:55:02.720 --> 1:55:08.120 heard of him. And then they they you know, they 1:55:08.160 --> 1:55:11.120 did some more investigative work and then they operated. So 1:55:11.800 --> 1:55:15.000 that all happened pretty fast, and so I found out 1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:20.080 about it through the management, and then I talked to 1:55:20.120 --> 1:55:23.880 Pat Downey afterwards to get more information. That's how I 1:55:24.000 --> 1:55:25.040 kind of came into it. 1:55:27.600 --> 1:55:31.760 I'd been with Gord the day before, at day before 1:55:31.880 --> 1:55:34.720 the big seizure, at a celebration of life for his 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:39.040 father in Kingston, and we had a lovely day that 1:55:39.160 --> 1:55:42.240 day and lots of hugs, and we had made a 1:55:42.280 --> 1:55:46.520 plan to go see another artist, Daniel Romano, who was 1:55:46.560 --> 1:55:48.880 playing at a club in Kingston that we had played 1:55:48.920 --> 1:55:52.320 at when we were up and coming, the Grad Club. 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:57.080 And I got a text from Gord at about five 1:55:57.200 --> 1:55:59.840 thirty or six in the evening saying, not going to 1:55:59.880 --> 1:56:04.320 be able to make it tonight. I'll explain to you later. 1:56:05.760 --> 1:56:08.360 And I had no idea that he was texting me 1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:14.200 from the hospital where he was being investigated. So and 1:56:15.800 --> 1:56:20.240 at first the initial report was that they thought he 1:56:20.280 --> 1:56:23.920 had a tumor or illsion, but that they thought that 1:56:24.000 --> 1:56:28.640 it was probably a good case scenario. And then within 1:56:30.120 --> 1:56:32.440 you know, forty eight hours, that bubble burst. 1:56:32.880 --> 1:56:38.080 So okay. You know, this is a typical of bands. 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:43.600 Usually a band member dies way before their time, you know, 1:56:43.640 --> 1:56:46.800 the twenty seven Club, and we've seen a lot of 1:56:46.880 --> 1:56:51.080 classic acts where you know, they're running out a runway 1:56:51.120 --> 1:56:54.000 to sort of put it. Where's this happened? When you 1:56:54.400 --> 1:57:00.760 were vibrant and still healthy young men. Is they say 1:57:01.480 --> 1:57:05.920 you've gone on about what friends you were, what harmony 1:57:06.040 --> 1:57:11.040 there was? This happens to gore down. It's an incredible tragedy. 1:57:11.840 --> 1:57:16.080 It really, to the degree it can be accepted, it's 1:57:16.240 --> 1:57:23.160 very singular. However, it does affect everybody else. So what 1:57:23.280 --> 1:57:26.640 point did you think, holy fuck, what about me? And 1:57:26.680 --> 1:57:29.600 what am I gonna do? And when you ultimately did 1:57:29.680 --> 1:57:31.960 think about that, what were your thoughts? 1:57:33.920 --> 1:57:39.400 Well, you do feel guilty about it. You know, it's 1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:43.840 like you're losing a friend he's got a terminal diagnosis. 1:57:45.640 --> 1:57:49.040 But I was also keenly aware that I was losing 1:57:49.080 --> 1:57:52.520 the dream, that this was the dream that we shared, 1:57:52.600 --> 1:57:56.440 dream that we had and we are living it, and 1:57:56.480 --> 1:58:00.680 it was just like, this is our golden goose. We 1:58:00.760 --> 1:58:05.520 loved We all loved being in this band. Even though 1:58:05.520 --> 1:58:10.120 there were tough times and acrimony at times, it was 1:58:10.160 --> 1:58:13.600 a beautiful thing and it treated us very well and 1:58:13.640 --> 1:58:18.120 we loved it. And suddenly it's like it's winding up. 1:58:19.080 --> 1:58:22.520 And I didn't think that it would ever happen like this, 1:58:23.040 --> 1:58:27.640 And you feel guilty about mourning your own loss when 1:58:27.680 --> 1:58:34.480 you're when it's your friend who's dying. And then like 1:58:34.760 --> 1:58:40.520 I watched my father and people of his generation, older 1:58:40.560 --> 1:58:45.800 men who were so entwined with what they did for 1:58:45.880 --> 1:58:49.320 a living that their sense of self identity was what 1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:52.480 they did, and I said, well, I'll never make that mistake. 1:58:53.360 --> 1:58:58.520 And of course the band played its final notes and 1:58:58.720 --> 1:59:02.200 my friend died, and then I was like, what am 1:59:02.200 --> 1:59:07.360 I now? I'm nothing? The band's gone. I'm not a 1:59:07.400 --> 1:59:09.600 guitar player and a popular band. This has been my 1:59:09.680 --> 1:59:13.200 whole life. What am I? What do I do now? 1:59:14.040 --> 1:59:17.720 Maybe I'm nothing? Maybe I have to completely reinvent myself 1:59:17.760 --> 1:59:22.919 and start over. And I went through a really difficult 1:59:23.000 --> 1:59:24.800 time trying to come to terms with all of it 1:59:24.840 --> 1:59:28.560 and trying to figure out where I fit or what 1:59:28.640 --> 1:59:30.280 I was going to do with the rest of my life. 1:59:31.640 --> 1:59:34.520 So do you think you've come to terms with it? 1:59:34.680 --> 1:59:36.440 Or is the type of thing you can really never 1:59:36.560 --> 1:59:39.800 come to terms with? In how are you coping in 1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:41.800 terms of what you're doing marching forward? 1:59:44.840 --> 1:59:47.160 I think I have come to terms with it. I 1:59:47.760 --> 1:59:49.840 you know, in trying to figure out what I was 1:59:49.880 --> 1:59:52.760 going to do, I thought, well, I just need some time. 1:59:52.800 --> 1:59:55.720 I just need some time to process this. And what 1:59:55.800 --> 1:59:59.120 I did with that time was I set up my 1:59:59.640 --> 2:00:02.320 prot Uel's rig and I worked for fifteen hours a 2:00:02.400 --> 2:00:05.920 day writing songs and recording, and at the end of it, 2:00:05.920 --> 2:00:09.560 it was like, oh, I write songs and record music 2:00:09.600 --> 2:00:12.400 that probably no one will ever hear. And when I'm 2:00:12.440 --> 2:00:14.840 not doing that, I go and do paintings that no 2:00:14.880 --> 2:00:19.280 one will probably ever see. And I'm okay with that. 2:00:19.280 --> 2:00:22.880 That's fine. I get the same a lot of the 2:00:22.920 --> 2:00:28.280 same satisfaction. There's no monetary plus to it, but that 2:00:28.360 --> 2:00:34.240 doesn't matter. The band treated me very well and our 2:00:34.280 --> 2:00:38.960 fans treated us very well. So I'm I think I'm 2:00:39.000 --> 2:00:41.200 contented with it. I think i'm I think I'm in 2:00:41.240 --> 2:00:41.840 a good place. 2:00:42.400 --> 2:00:47.480 In Johnny, I had a different situation because I had 2:00:47.840 --> 2:00:50.120 I had a family crisis that kind of butted up 2:00:50.120 --> 2:00:56.720 against Gord getting sick, and so at the end of 2:00:56.720 --> 2:01:02.600 the tour, I became you know, I knew it was 2:01:02.960 --> 2:01:07.000 going to be finished. I became very reflective of it, 2:01:07.520 --> 2:01:12.400 and I'm reminded of it as the years go by 2:01:13.000 --> 2:01:16.120 by things that happened, things that happened to other bands. 2:01:16.320 --> 2:01:20.800 I was talking the other day that, you know, Gord 2:01:20.920 --> 2:01:27.480 had this horrible thing that happened to him, but he 2:01:27.640 --> 2:01:31.200 was able to get the other parts of his body 2:01:31.840 --> 2:01:36.040 and take these infusion drugs and get his brain working 2:01:36.680 --> 2:01:39.320 to where he was remembering things and he could get 2:01:39.400 --> 2:01:44.520 up on stage. Steven Tyler's voice is gone. It's gone. 2:01:45.240 --> 2:01:49.800 And that just happens like that. And if we'd had 2:01:50.080 --> 2:01:54.240 COVID hit when Gord was getting ready to get up 2:01:54.360 --> 2:01:59.240 and get on stage, that that could have killed that tour. 2:01:59.680 --> 2:02:03.040 So I'm very thankful for it because a lot of 2:02:03.040 --> 2:02:07.120 bands don't get to even do it for a couple 2:02:07.120 --> 2:02:12.000 of years, you know, a lot of bands don't get 2:02:12.000 --> 2:02:15.840 to say goodbye. So I became very thankful for it 2:02:15.920 --> 2:02:19.800 for what we had. I uh, you know, it's a 2:02:19.800 --> 2:02:23.280 long time to do it, and then I had to 2:02:23.320 --> 2:02:26.360 focus on some other things, so my brain was in 2:02:26.440 --> 2:02:29.280 a different place, and for me it was just kind 2:02:29.320 --> 2:02:35.320 of I was just, you know, sort of saying how 2:02:35.680 --> 2:02:37.320 great it was that we were able to do it, 2:02:37.960 --> 2:02:40.480 and then you know, not long later, you know, Gord 2:02:40.680 --> 2:02:46.800 was gone. And it's also worth mentioning that he when 2:02:46.840 --> 2:02:49.600 it was announced that he was sick, he had to 2:02:49.600 --> 2:02:51.960 think of his family, but he was thinking of us 2:02:52.080 --> 2:02:56.120 as individuals too. He did that final tour for us 2:02:56.240 --> 2:02:58.320 to to make sure that we were going to be 2:02:58.400 --> 2:03:02.080 financially good, so you know, at the end of his life, 2:03:02.080 --> 2:03:06.240 he's sweeping up and making sure things are good for everyone, 2:03:06.400 --> 2:03:10.320 his family, his beautiful kids, and his other family. So 2:03:10.600 --> 2:03:14.280 that that makes you think, Wow, how lucky we are 2:03:14.720 --> 2:03:16.920 that we got to say goodbye, How lucky we are 2:03:16.960 --> 2:03:19.320 that we were able to do it for so long. 2:03:20.120 --> 2:03:23.840 And so I think I was more reflective and then 2:03:24.000 --> 2:03:26.840 had other things to focus on. But we all, as 2:03:26.920 --> 2:03:31.680 Robbie said, his was different than Paul's, different than Court Sinclair's. 2:03:33.240 --> 2:03:35.600 And we all did it separately, which is so weird 2:03:36.240 --> 2:03:41.000 after spending thirty five years together, you know, cooped up 2:03:41.000 --> 2:03:46.560 together and going through everything together. When the shit hit 2:03:46.760 --> 2:03:51.360 really hit the fan, we were all on our own. Yeah, Yeah, 2:03:51.400 --> 2:03:54.280 that was Unfortunately, that was a mistake we made him. 2:03:54.840 --> 2:03:57.000 We made a mistake. We probably should have been in 2:03:57.080 --> 2:04:02.640 therapy from the beginning, but at some point, you know, 2:04:02.800 --> 2:04:04.120 we probably needed help. 2:04:04.680 --> 2:04:08.440 But having said that, the movie and the book was 2:04:08.480 --> 2:04:12.480 great therapy to go through because those interviews you didn't 2:04:12.560 --> 2:04:15.400 know what the other guy was saying, the way that 2:04:15.440 --> 2:04:19.120 Mike broke them up, and that was really interesting, and 2:04:19.160 --> 2:04:23.280 I don't think everyone was very and I think that 2:04:23.360 --> 2:04:25.240 was a good thing because Mike did it in such 2:04:25.240 --> 2:04:30.160 a way that he asked these questions and I didn't think, oh, 2:04:30.200 --> 2:04:32.320 I wonder what Robbie's going to answer to this. I 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:35.880 wanted to answer it and be fully conscious of the 2:04:35.920 --> 2:04:40.000 moment and the question about how I felt about that 2:04:40.760 --> 2:04:45.760 at this moment, having some time and all the stuff 2:04:46.080 --> 2:04:51.160 that had happened. And I think that that turned into 2:04:51.240 --> 2:04:54.080 a therapy session of its own. And you know the 2:04:54.120 --> 2:04:56.880 other day when we watched the movie and there was 2:04:56.960 --> 2:05:00.600 a little parade to go and watch a a band 2:05:01.440 --> 2:05:05.160 do some hip tunes that Jake had had arranged for 2:05:05.200 --> 2:05:09.640 It's a beautiful sunny day, and we walked behind these 2:05:09.680 --> 2:05:12.680 people and there were fans there, and I think that 2:05:12.840 --> 2:05:16.280 was like that was there. It was again, and I 2:05:16.320 --> 2:05:19.800 had my boys there and they heard people singing hip 2:05:19.840 --> 2:05:23.640 songs and that was like seeing it through ten year 2:05:23.680 --> 2:05:25.880 old eyes, and I was just able to relive it 2:05:26.400 --> 2:05:28.640 and the thing that we set out to do in 2:05:28.680 --> 2:05:32.440 the very beginning and make music and make music with 2:05:32.520 --> 2:05:35.839 each other and commit to each other. There those songs 2:05:35.880 --> 2:05:41.200 are that people know is for and that's beautiful. That really, 2:05:41.640 --> 2:05:43.520 to me, it was just such a special day. 2:05:45.080 --> 2:05:50.560 Okay, Rob, you talked about each grieving separately. Now that 2:05:50.640 --> 2:05:53.200 the movie has been made in the present day, is 2:05:53.240 --> 2:05:57.720 there more interaction between the four members or did everybody 2:05:57.760 --> 2:06:00.480 just come together for these projects and everybody living their 2:06:00.520 --> 2:06:01.520 own separate life. 2:06:01.960 --> 2:06:07.600 We have zoom calls every second week. Management and Johnny 2:06:07.600 --> 2:06:13.080 are in Toronto. Paul Langua, Gorge Sinclair and I are 2:06:13.120 --> 2:06:16.240 all in Kingston, and I get together with Gorg Sinclair 2:06:16.240 --> 2:06:20.160 on a fairly regular basis, maybe every other week, to 2:06:20.200 --> 2:06:23.000 do something in person. We get together and listen to 2:06:23.080 --> 2:06:28.720 albums actually, which is really really nice. It's kind of 2:06:28.760 --> 2:06:33.000 where it all started for me, was hanging out with 2:06:33.000 --> 2:06:37.520 Gorge Sinclair and listening to albums from a very young age. 2:06:38.280 --> 2:06:41.720 So that to be at that stage in my life 2:06:42.080 --> 2:06:46.320 where I'm returning to my childhood and my infancy, it's 2:06:46.400 --> 2:06:47.720 kind of really pleasant. 2:06:48.520 --> 2:06:52.560 Okay. I have to ask the question that everybody asks, 2:06:53.200 --> 2:06:59.080 which is Gord is dead. But we have act after act, 2:06:59.080 --> 2:07:01.880 which is going on the road, moving forward with new 2:07:01.960 --> 2:07:06.040 lead singers. Used to be this never succeeded. Then we 2:07:06.080 --> 2:07:10.280 had Sammy Hagar with Van Halen. Now we have a 2:07:10.360 --> 2:07:14.280 new lead singer for Lincoln Park. I know, you guys 2:07:14.320 --> 2:07:17.080 say this is off the table, but is it really 2:07:17.120 --> 2:07:17.839 off the table. 2:07:19.520 --> 2:07:22.360 We've always said, you know, never say never. Gord Sinkler 2:07:22.400 --> 2:07:24.840 said that the other day, and I agree with it, 2:07:25.320 --> 2:07:29.040 and it's just, you know, on any given day, you 2:07:29.080 --> 2:07:31.680 could ask each guy what he thought about it, and 2:07:31.720 --> 2:07:33.840 I might wake up on a Tuesday and say, you know, 2:07:33.960 --> 2:07:36.560 it would be really great to go out and play tunes. 2:07:36.960 --> 2:07:42.400 I live in Toronto, so I see, you know, practically 2:07:42.480 --> 2:07:48.040 hip grace too, all these cover bands, and I'm reminded 2:07:48.080 --> 2:07:52.760 of the fact, and my friends point out that people 2:07:52.880 --> 2:07:55.080 just want to hear those songs, you know, they want 2:07:55.080 --> 2:07:58.520 to hear your songs. So I think that we would 2:07:58.560 --> 2:08:01.000 never say never, but it would, but you know, you'd 2:08:01.000 --> 2:08:02.960 have to get me on a Tuesday, and Robbie on 2:08:03.000 --> 2:08:06.000 a Thursday, and Paul on a Friday kind of I 2:08:06.080 --> 2:08:07.160 don't I don't know. 2:08:09.120 --> 2:08:09.879 And Rob. 2:08:11.840 --> 2:08:15.040 Yeah, I'm also in the never say never category, but 2:08:16.400 --> 2:08:19.080 it would almost have to be something completely different. Like, 2:08:19.200 --> 2:08:21.920 you know, if Zoe Daschanel wanted to sing for the band, 2:08:23.040 --> 2:08:26.880 I'd probably say yes. But you know, we did the 2:08:26.960 --> 2:08:30.880 thing with Leslie Feiss and that seemed to work. There'd 2:08:30.880 --> 2:08:33.960 been a bunch of names thrown out, and it just kept. 2:08:34.560 --> 2:08:38.080 It didn't feel right, and it kept. All I could 2:08:38.080 --> 2:08:41.880 think was like, well, you know, Bill, they're all going 2:08:41.960 --> 2:08:45.280 to get compared to Gord. Everyone's going to compare everyone 2:08:45.320 --> 2:08:48.440 to Gord. And when Leslie Feis's name came up, it 2:08:48.480 --> 2:08:50.560 was like, no one's going to compare it to Gordon. 2:08:51.720 --> 2:08:54.880 It's a different thing entirely, and that's that's fine, But 2:08:55.360 --> 2:08:58.960 then you're doing a different thing entirely. So I don't know. 2:09:00.800 --> 2:09:04.720 I got to say, it took me a long time 2:09:04.720 --> 2:09:09.040 to get to a point where I'm okay that the 2:09:09.160 --> 2:09:12.160 dream ended. It was a pretty great dream. I had 2:09:12.160 --> 2:09:15.160 a really good time, and I loved being up on 2:09:15.240 --> 2:09:17.280 stage and I loved being on the road with my 2:09:17.320 --> 2:09:20.360 best friends on Earth, you know, brothers from other mothers, 2:09:21.680 --> 2:09:24.520 and I did it for a long long time. I 2:09:24.640 --> 2:09:28.000 currently don't really have a drive to be on stage. 2:09:28.560 --> 2:09:34.400 I play guitar every day. I'm driven by that. But yeah, 2:09:34.480 --> 2:09:37.960 I just and you know, you brought mentioned some examples. 2:09:38.400 --> 2:09:43.400 I personally think that after David Lee roth Aim should 2:09:43.400 --> 2:09:47.879 have stopped. And you know, you don't replace Robert Plant 2:09:47.880 --> 2:09:53.600 and led Zeppelin or you know, I you know, I 2:09:53.640 --> 2:09:56.840 think that who should have stopped when Keith Moon was gone? Personally, 2:09:56.960 --> 2:10:00.160 that's how I feel, So I. 2:10:00.080 --> 2:10:01.760 Thought that who should have stopped when they said they 2:10:01.760 --> 2:10:03.360 were going to stop in Toronto? 2:10:05.000 --> 2:10:05.600 Which time? 2:10:05.760 --> 2:10:06.600 Yeah? Which time? 2:10:07.360 --> 2:10:11.080 In any event, gentlemen, you're not the typical rock stars, 2:10:11.840 --> 2:10:15.160 very aerudite and articulate, and I want to thank you 2:10:15.240 --> 2:10:18.720 so much for speaking with my audience. Certainly watch the 2:10:18.800 --> 2:10:22.320 documentary on Prime. It's included in Prime. You'll hear all 2:10:22.440 --> 2:10:24.960 this and much more, the nitty gritty of the band 2:10:25.200 --> 2:10:28.440 in depth and at length, and of course the book 2:10:28.480 --> 2:10:33.000 will give you even more So Johnny, Rob, thanks so 2:10:33.120 --> 2:10:34.880 much for taking the time to speak with me. 2:10:35.240 --> 2:10:36.280 Thank you so much, Bob. 2:10:36.720 --> 2:10:41.040 It was a pleasure, Bob, great chatting with you, and 2:10:42.440 --> 2:10:42.960 thank you so. 2:10:43.000 --> 2:10:43.760 Much for doing us. 2:10:44.680 --> 2:10:47.400 Until next time. This is Bob left Sex