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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob left Hid the podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guests today are Johnny Fay and Bob Baker of

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Speaker 1: Tragically Hit, who have a new four part documentary on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime.

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Speaker 2: Gentlemen, what do you think of the documentary?

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Speaker 3: I think Mike Downey did a fantastic job. He's Gord

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Speaker 3: Downey's older brother. We've known him since since they first

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Speaker 3: moved to Kingston, our hometown. They all showed up at

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Speaker 3: our high school one year and we, you know, we

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Speaker 3: became friends with Paul and Gored became best buddies right away,

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Speaker 3: and Mike Downey was in our year and we've known

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Speaker 3: him a long time. He knows all the ins and

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Speaker 3: outs of the band and wasn't afraid to go to

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Speaker 3: the the dark places, the more unexplored places. But I

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Speaker 3: think he did it in a very fair and balanced

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Speaker 3: kind of way. We were allowed to be very vulnerable

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Speaker 3: with him. We knew what he wanted to do, and

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Speaker 3: he brought out a lot of the vulnerability and we

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Speaker 3: were allowed to be truthful basically.

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Speaker 4: And Johnny, yeah, I feel the same way. Mike actually

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Speaker 4: was thinking about it when I was doing an interview

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Speaker 4: the other day that I met Mike before I met

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Speaker 4: any other of the Downy clan, and it was really funny.

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Speaker 4: I was in grade eight and Robbie would remember that

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Speaker 4: he and another guy, Hugh Douglas Murray and some other

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Speaker 4: people used to do ski trips and we'd all go

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Speaker 4: on the ski trips, and of course, you know, music

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Speaker 4: and skiing and drinking too much French beer goes hand

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Speaker 4: in hand in Canada. And so I remember getting the

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Speaker 4: clearance from my parents that I could go on the

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Speaker 4: ski trip, and someone said that's the guy you need

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Speaker 4: to talk to. And so I went up to Mike

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Speaker 4: Downey and said, can I come on this ski trip?

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Speaker 4: And he said, I don't see why not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. You know, I wasn't in high school yet, and

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Speaker 4: I was talking to Mike the other day and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't his ski trip. He was just tagging. He was

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Speaker 4: tagging along himself. But you know when you're in a

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Speaker 4: room with somebody who's just so exuberant, and so yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: And he's always been that guy. He's always been the

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Speaker 4: guy who's been really positive about things. Yeah, come on in,

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Speaker 4: it'd be great. And he's also a really interesting brother

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Speaker 4: because he's not the kind of brother that would hang

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Speaker 4: out at every single gig, and he was kind of

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Speaker 4: the ultimate fly on the wall. He knew the ins

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Speaker 4: and outs of the band, but he also didn't hang

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Speaker 4: out too much. He'd disappear and then he would reappear

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Speaker 4: and you'd see him a couple of weeks later and

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Speaker 4: he would say, Hey, that was a great gig in Boston.

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Speaker 4: I didn't come backstage because it was mental and we

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Speaker 4: just hung up with our friends at a local bar.

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Speaker 4: But good gig, and then you wouldn't see him for

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Speaker 4: another eight months or something like that. So when he

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Speaker 4: became a filmmaker, it was kind of a no brainer.

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Speaker 4: Robbie and I talked about this a long time ago

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Speaker 4: and said, you know, we got to really manage the

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Speaker 4: ship and getting Jake involved and of course having people

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Speaker 4: help us tell our story is just a logical step.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, what Robbie's saying is bang on that. Having

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Speaker 4: Mike do it was just a no brainer.

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Speaker 2: So what is the genesis of the documentary? How did

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Speaker 2: it come together? And why now.

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Speaker 3: We had in the wake of hearing about the Universal Fire,

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Speaker 3: Johnny and I got in touch with each other. I

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Speaker 3: was in Rome at the time and we thought we

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Speaker 3: had lost a lot of stuff in that fire, and

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Speaker 3: it kind of after Gored died, we all went our

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Speaker 3: separate ways to grieve and figure out what we were

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Speaker 3: going to do with our lives, which was a terrible idea.

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Speaker 3: You know, we did everything together, we shared everything, our

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Speaker 3: whole lives, and then at the moment when it was

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Speaker 3: probably most important, we all went our separate ways. But

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Speaker 3: the Universal Fire lit a fire under us to get

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Speaker 3: our affairs in order, and we started an archiving process

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Speaker 3: and we tracked down all our master tapes. Through the

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Speaker 3: archiving process, it just seemed now is the time. If

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Speaker 3: we're ever going to do a coffee table book or

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Speaker 3: some kind of tell our story properly and honestly, now

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Speaker 3: is the time. And Mike proposed this idea for an

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Speaker 3: Amazon documentary and he had no problem getting Amazon on

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Speaker 3: board and we were off. So the archiving. The fire

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Speaker 3: led to the archiving. The archiving led to the book

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Speaker 3: in the documentary.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a couple of things. Did you lose anything in

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Speaker 2: the Universal Fire?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's funny, Robby, I want you to tell

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Speaker 4: that story of you and I having a little chat

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Speaker 4: and you picked up the new York Times and I

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Speaker 4: think you read it to me and from Rome and

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Speaker 4: who are we sandwiched? But we were sandwiched between some bands.

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Speaker 3: It said the people who'd lost stuff in the fire,

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Speaker 3: and it said meltor May, the Tragically Hip and the

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Speaker 3: Von Trapp family singers. That was like, well Eastern great company.

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Speaker 3: But we said about you know, we set the ball

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Speaker 3: in motion trying to find this stuff and very fortunately

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Speaker 3: we were spared. But what a disaster for the music industry.

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Speaker 3: Truly horrible.

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Speaker 2: You did mention the book. There's also coming out subsequent

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Speaker 2: to the documentary. I certainly have a copy. It's a

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Speaker 2: big coffee table book. Tell us the story of the band.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the book.

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Speaker 4: That's Robbie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about doing something for a long time.

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Speaker 3: We've had a lot of great photographers through the years,

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Speaker 3: and we would sort of become we're a family operation.

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Speaker 3: For management, even record company people, they become extended family

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Speaker 3: and photographers. We work with the same photographers over and

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Speaker 3: over because they're people that we like, and they can

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Speaker 3: be in the room with us and they can be

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Speaker 3: shooting and you don't even know they're there. And we

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Speaker 3: just thought at some point we should feature this, and

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Speaker 3: we talked about it many times on the bus, but

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Speaker 3: when we were doing the archiving, it just seemed this

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Speaker 3: is a natural extension, This is our end, this is

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Speaker 3: the moment when this becomes a viable project. And I

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Speaker 3: pushed hard to work with Genesis Publishing out of London

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Speaker 3: because I'm a big fan of their books. You know,

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Speaker 3: I've got I can see right now, books of theirs

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Speaker 3: that I've got on Laurel Canyon and moon Age day Dream,

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Speaker 3: the Nick Rock photographs of David Bowie, and lots of

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Speaker 3: tons of great books. The Beatles in India. They just

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Speaker 3: do such a first rate job. They don't cut corners there,

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Speaker 3: you know, they truly are collector's items books, and I

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Speaker 3: just I'm always about that, like the quality is the

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Speaker 3: most important thing. So Genesis was an easy choice on

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Speaker 3: my part. And I also thought, having read a countless

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Speaker 3: of these books, that there are a couple of things

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Speaker 3: that really appealed to me. One was the Beatles anthology,

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Speaker 3: where it's really in their words. There are a few

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Speaker 3: other people mal Evans and George Martin, but it's true

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Speaker 3: the inner circle and the story is told in their

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Speaker 3: own words. And the other thing was the Beastie Boys

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Speaker 3: book where the conflicting opinions are on full display. You know,

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Speaker 3: I thought that was a great album. Someone else says

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Speaker 3: that was a terrible record. I thought that's got to

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Speaker 3: be right front and center.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Mike was in charge of the documentary who did

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Speaker 2: the interviews, And Gordon Downe, who of course is longer

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Speaker 2: with us, is also in the book. Who assembled the book.

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Speaker 3: The book was largely assembled by Genesis. I worked with Genesis.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're in England, so it was a lot

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Speaker 3: of early mornings for me to be on calls with them.

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Speaker 3: But it was about a two year project, almost a

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Speaker 3: two year project with them. A lot of the interviews

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Speaker 3: were culled from the documentary. Each of us did about

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Speaker 3: fifteen hours of interviews, and the Gordon Downey interviews were

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Speaker 3: largely taken from contemporaneous interviews.

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Speaker 2: You know, when we're.

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Speaker 3: Out touring a record or promoting a new album or something,

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Speaker 3: go would have been a front and center, very in

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Speaker 3: demand for interviews, so there was lots of that.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So, Johnny, in the book, it tells the story

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Speaker 2: of your mother driving you to the Berkeley College of Music.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell that story from my audience.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one. I remember sort of just

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Speaker 4: getting ready to I've been playing drums for a good

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Speaker 4: four years and I was very, very into it. And

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Speaker 4: my drum teacher had told my mom at the time

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Speaker 4: that it was imperative that I stopped listening to Stuart Copeland,

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Speaker 4: which every guy who played the drums in the eighties

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Speaker 4: was listening to the great Stuart Copeland. I mean, he

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Speaker 4: was like the guy you wanted to look like him,

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Speaker 4: You wanted to be like him. You you'd I taped

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Speaker 4: my hands like him. I did it all, just like

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Speaker 4: everybody else in the eighties. And so I was looking

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Speaker 4: at a brochure one day and I kept on looking,

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Speaker 4: you know, at it, and it was from the Berkeley

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Speaker 4: College of Music, which I had I had written away,

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Speaker 4: and they sent one up and I had a great

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Speaker 4: summer program. I'm sure they still do. And my mom said,

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Speaker 4: what are you doing this summer? And I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I don't really, I don't really know, just kind of

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Speaker 4: kick around. And she said, you know, pack your stuff

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Speaker 4: up and we'll take a trip tomorrow. And I had

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Speaker 4: no idea. And so we get in the car and

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Speaker 4: we start driving. You know Watertown sarrahcuse, you know, Binghamton,

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Speaker 4: and then you know, we start cutting over and she said,

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Speaker 4: we'll go and and we'll go check out the Berkeley

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Speaker 4: College of Music. And in those days, in the eighties,

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Speaker 4: it was Roxbury was not a great sort of place

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Speaker 4: to be, you know, touring around and and my mom

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Speaker 4: just drove right through it, right up to the front

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Speaker 4: door of Berkeley College of Music. We sparked right there

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Speaker 4: and said let's go in. So we walk in and

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Speaker 4: my mom said, my son would like to go to

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Speaker 4: the summer program here. And we were stopped by a

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Speaker 4: guy by the name of Ed Sandon. I'll never forget him.

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Speaker 4: He was just such a lovely, lovely man. Who's the

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Speaker 4: painter with the hair that Bob what's his name? He

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Speaker 4: kind of looked like him with a mustache and he

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Speaker 4: said Bob Ross. Yeah, Bob Ross. He looked like him,

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Speaker 4: you know, very approachable and very nice. And he was

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Speaker 4: from New Hampshire. And he said, well, you can't just

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Speaker 4: show up, and my mom said, well, we've driven all

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Speaker 4: the way from Canada. Could you at least hear my son. Now,

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Speaker 4: she didn't say where in Canada, And so he might

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Speaker 4: have thought, Oh God, they've driven all the way from Vancouver.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, I go, I do a little audition for him.

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Speaker 4: He walks there, he goes, Actually he's he's a good

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Speaker 4: little drummer. I think we could find a place for

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Speaker 4: him here, and well, uh, you know, get them set

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Speaker 4: up in the dormitory. I didn't know anyone from you know,

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Speaker 4: a bar soap, and and so there we were. I

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Speaker 4: was on Boilston Street for the summer of nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 4: and he said, go go get your drums and I'll

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Speaker 4: show you where you put them. And my mom said,

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Speaker 4: we'll be right back. And we didn't have any drums,

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Speaker 4: and we went across the street to had great music

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Speaker 4: stores in those days in Boston, just like lined up

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Speaker 4: great drum drack Jack's Drum Shop, which was right around

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Speaker 4: the corner from you know where the uh base where

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Speaker 4: the baseball Yeah, Fentware Fenway as you can see Fenway

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Speaker 4: from there. And then Daddy's Junkie Music was across the street.

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Speaker 4: So we went in and I got a little kit,

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Speaker 4: a little slingering kit, and it was perfect. And my mom,

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Speaker 4: I might never forget I had those drums, and she

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Speaker 4: got in the car and she split and she knew

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Speaker 4: I was going to be good. And I went in

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Speaker 4: and I had the greatest summer of music. I really

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Speaker 4: was that. I was like, I'm doing it. And then

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Speaker 4: when I got home, I had a couple of weeks

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Speaker 4: and then my mom said, oh, somebody's phoned and asked

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Speaker 4: you if you would audition for a band. And I said, well, okay, great,

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Speaker 4: and she said it's a guy by the name of

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Speaker 4: Doug Downey and I said, yeah, I don't know. I

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Speaker 4: don't know. So then, like I remember, like four days later,

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Speaker 4: I said it wasn't Gore down and she goes, that's it.

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Speaker 4: That's the guy. That's the guy. You'll phone his numbers

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Speaker 4: right over there, and I was like, oh, four days

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Speaker 4: said they've got a new drummer by now, like I

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Speaker 4: just uh, and I gave up. I gave a phone

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Speaker 4: call and they said go up to Robbie's house and audition,

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Speaker 4: and so that was that. That was October of nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty four. So that's how that sort of all came together.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a little bit slower. You went across the street

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Speaker 2: to buy drums. Did you not own any drums?

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Speaker 4: I did own some drums, but we didn't know that

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Speaker 4: I was going to get in, so we were just going.

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Speaker 4: I think my mom was like, I don't necessarily think

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Speaker 4: my mom thought I was going to get in. She

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Speaker 4: just thought we'll just go down and try, or maybe

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Speaker 4: they have drums down there. You know, it's not the

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Speaker 4: most portable instrument. You know, if I was going to

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Speaker 4: do it over, I definitely play bass or guitar because

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Speaker 4: you unplug and you're with all the girls in like

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Speaker 4: ten seconds. But you know, the drums you gotta you

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Speaker 4: can have a beer and then you got to take

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Speaker 4: the forty minutes to get it all, you know, torn down.

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Speaker 4: It's like, so I did have drums, but I just

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Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, I just packed clothing and

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Speaker 4: that was that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you were there for the summer. Had you spent

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Speaker 2: the summer away from your family previously?

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Speaker 4: Never?

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Speaker 2: No, No, So what was that experience like, both culturally

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Speaker 2: and learning about playing the drums?

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Speaker 4: Well, it was amazing because one of my roommates was

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Speaker 4: a guy that I'm still very close with. His name

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Speaker 4: is John Kimball, and he taught me he was a

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Speaker 4: bass player and he liked Michael Anthony of Van Halen,

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Speaker 4: but Eddie van Halen was his guy. So I got

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Speaker 4: a full summer of Van Halen, which was pretty unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: He would he would put it on and he would

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Speaker 4: explain what Eddie was doing, and you know, he knew

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Speaker 4: some guitar stuff, and I was like, Eddie van Halen,

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Speaker 4: my god, I don't think there's been a guy since

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Speaker 4: you know. He was like he was coming onto the

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Speaker 4: scene and I got incredible. So I taught him about

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Speaker 4: the Police and I was in DS and he taught

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Speaker 4: me about Van Halen. So that summer was an education

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Speaker 4: in music. One of the great live bands of all

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Speaker 4: time van Halen.

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Speaker 2: What did you actually learn in class?

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Speaker 4: I studied some rudiments, and I really it was about

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Speaker 4: playing with other people. You could sort of hook up

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Speaker 4: with other people there, and what I learned about that

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Speaker 4: was that Robbie would agree that, you know, you can

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Speaker 4: practice on your own in your room, but playing with

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Speaker 4: other people, it's like doing ten hours of practice. Just

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Speaker 4: the gelling of being with people. And I think that

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Speaker 4: that really sort of opened me up to understanding that

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Speaker 4: when there is that lightning in the bottle, you know,

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Speaker 4: you know, recognize it. And we just had something with

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Speaker 4: the hip that was really so organic and so beautiful

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Speaker 4: that just it happened like that. It was really great.

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Speaker 4: So I got to move around and jam with different people.

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Speaker 4: There were jam rooms, so in nineteen eighty four, that

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Speaker 4: was pretty That was pretty amazing. The Berkeley College of

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Speaker 4: Music is just a wonderful place if you really want

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Speaker 4: to study all kinds of things. But what it taught

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Speaker 4: me was that there's great players and there's not so

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Speaker 4: great players, and if you can sort of figure out

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Speaker 4: where you want to be and where you need to go.

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Speaker 4: I think it was a good sort of view into

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Speaker 4: the work that I needed to do to get better

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Speaker 4: on the drums. So that really helped me. That was

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Speaker 4: the big learning thing for me.

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Speaker 2: And Rob what was your experience with guitar lessons.

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Speaker 3: I had an older sister who had a great record collection,

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Speaker 3: and she had classical guitar that she ever touched, and

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Speaker 3: anytime she listened to one of her records, I listened

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Speaker 3: to it twenty times. So I spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: time pretending to play the guitar and leaping off furniture,

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Speaker 3: playing the tennis racket, listening to early led Zeppelin albums

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Speaker 3: and Diamond Dogs by Bowie, and at a certain point

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Speaker 3: I think I said I'm going to do this. And

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Speaker 3: my parents were always very supportive, and they sent me

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Speaker 3: for guitar lessons. They signed me up for a month

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Speaker 3: of guitar lessons and I went to this guy and

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Speaker 3: he was a very old school He was an evangelical

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Speaker 3: preacher who taught guitar and I did three lessons with

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Speaker 3: him and it came time for the fourth lesson. I said,

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Speaker 3: I'm done. I'm not going back. I don't dig this

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Speaker 3: at all. And my mother said, we've paid for four.

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Speaker 3: You're going to the fourth lesson. You never have to

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Speaker 3: do another one. And I went to my fourth lesson

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Speaker 3: and he was sick and he had a six ten

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Speaker 3: year old kid filling in for him. I was twelve,

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Speaker 3: and sixteen year old kid taught me bar cords. He

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Speaker 3: taught me jumping jack flash in my first lesson and

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Speaker 3: the intro to Angie and I was like, hello, let's go.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I studied with him for you know, Saturday

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Speaker 3: mornings for about a year, and then I studied with

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Speaker 3: a couple of other people at jazz guy and kind

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Speaker 3: of a prog rock guy for a little bit. But

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Speaker 3: I think I got everything I really needed in about

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Speaker 3: the first four lessons because I was just I was devoted.

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Speaker 3: For the next four years or five years, I had

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Speaker 3: a guitar in my hand, probably eight to twelve hours

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Speaker 3: a day.

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Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit deeper what that looked like.

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Speaker 2: You have the guitar in your hand. What were you doing.

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Speaker 3: That guy, the sixteen year old guy, Jorgan Jensen, he said,

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Speaker 3: always don't put your guitar away. In this case, keep

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Speaker 3: it near when a commercial. If you're watching TV and

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00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 3: a commercial comes on, play try and play the commercial

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Speaker 3: or play anything. Just constantly have your hands on the guitar.

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Speaker 3: Then I would go away in the summers, and I

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Speaker 3: have terrible allergies. Summers were miserable for me. So I

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Speaker 3: would sit inside and I would be with my guitar

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Speaker 3: fifteen hours a day, just trying to figure stuff out.

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Speaker 3: As any young aspiring guitar player does, you know, they

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Speaker 3: sit in their bedroom and they practice and practice and practice.

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Speaker 3: But it's not until you get playing. As Johnny said,

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Speaker 3: you've got to play with other people. It's all you know.

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Speaker 3: It's all well and good, it's a good way to

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Speaker 3: occupy your time, but you're not really getting anywhere until

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Speaker 3: you start collaborating in real time and playing with other people.

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Speaker 3: So when I was about thirteen or fourteen, I said

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Speaker 3: to go Sinklair, who lived across the street, I'm starting

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Speaker 3: a band and I'm going to be the guitar player,

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Speaker 3: and you're going to play the bass. And he said okay.

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Speaker 3: About three weeks later he had a guitar, had a

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Speaker 3: bass and a n app.

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Speaker 2: Okay, see it, told Gord Sincleir, you're playing the bass.

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Speaker 2: Did he have any experience playing the bass?

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Speaker 3: He did not have experience playing the bass. But he

359
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Speaker 3: was an extremely musical guy. His mother was played piano,

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Speaker 3: not professionally, but she played at parties and things and

361
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Speaker 3: in church, and his dad had a stand up bass,

362
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Speaker 3: so Gordon would have goofed around with that. But he

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Speaker 3: was just naturally a good musician. He played the bagpipes

364
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Speaker 3: at that point. He was actually a very good bagpiper.

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Speaker 3: He went to an international competition in Edinburgh, Scotland and

366
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Speaker 3: finished sixth in the world under eighteen, which was pretty impressive.

367
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Speaker 3: He was a kid, was like fourteen, so he was

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Speaker 3: just a musical guy. You know. He was doing these

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Speaker 3: funny things when we were in grade nine where he'd

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Speaker 3: get two cassette tape recorders and he was bouncing back

371
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Speaker 3: and forth. He'd play Riders on the Storm on a

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Speaker 3: keyboard on a pump organ that his parents had, and

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Speaker 3: then he'd play that into another tape recorder and overdub

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Speaker 3: something on top of that. Like he was just thinking

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Speaker 3: that way as a young guy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, before we get into the band, let's start with location.

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Speaker 2: A lot of Canadians are very familiar with the landscape.

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Speaker 2: A lot of your fians elsewhere or not. You guys

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Speaker 2: are from Kingston. We're in is Kingston?

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Speaker 3: What is it like? Kingston is right where Lake Ontario

381
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Speaker 3: meets the Saint Lawrence River, So it's right at the

382
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Speaker 3: end of the Great Lakes and it's just to short

383
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Speaker 3: jump over to upstate New York where two hours north

384
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Speaker 3: to Ottawa, two hours south to Syracuse, two hours east

385
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Speaker 3: to Montreal, two hours west to Toronto. So it's a

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Speaker 3: nice central location. Smallish town, you know, when we were

387
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Speaker 3: growing up, it was about seventy five thousand. It's about

388
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Speaker 3: one hundred and forty five now, I think, so big

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Speaker 3: enough that there's something to do and small enough that

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't lose your kids.

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Speaker 2: Now, you guys both still live in that area, right.

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Speaker 3: I do. Johnny lives in Toronto.

393
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Speaker 4: I live in Toronto.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So how did you decide to leave Kingston behind?

395
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Speaker 4: It wasn't easy, it was I was thinking of making

396
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Speaker 4: a move. I was actually going to Vancouver, because I

397
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Speaker 4: don't think any of us have ever gotten a plane

398
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 4: and gone to Vancouver have a bad time. It's such

399
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 4: a beautiful, beautiful city. I think that Canada doesn't make

400
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 4: a lot of sense without Montreal and Vancouver. I always say. So.

401
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 4: I was on my way out there and that got

402
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: derailed and I ended up just going to Toronto. I

403
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: don't know why. I still I'm still asking myself why.

404
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 4: But I'm in I'm in Toronto, and I missed my

405
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: days in Kingston. I come, I come down to visit,

406
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 4: uh my, you know, my mom, and and it is

407
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 4: a beautiful town. It's it's one of the greatest fresh

408
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 4: water sailing it is the freshwater sailing capital of the world.

409
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Speaker 3: Really.

410
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Speaker 4: They have a Canadian regatta called Cork every summer. That's

411
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 4: when you kind of know summer's over in Kingston when

412
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Speaker 4: Cork starts. And so there's a lot of sailing. It's

413
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 4: right on Lake Ontario and directly across from Clayton, New York.

414
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Speaker 4: So I I ended up in Toronto. And yeah, it's

415
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 4: not until sort of halfway through the hip, sort of

416
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Speaker 4: starting touring.

417
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Speaker 2: Okay, are you a sailor?

418
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Speaker 4: I was a sailor. Yeah. I went to sailing camp

419
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 4: before I went to the Berkeley College of Music that

420
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: bit because that's where all the girls were going. So

421
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 4: my buddy had said, oh, these are the girls that

422
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 4: are going in July, and these are the girls are

423
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 4: going in August. And it was like, okay, well then

424
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: we'll do it. And you've got these little nutshells, these

425
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 4: little boats, and you sailed around, you know, some of

426
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 4: the islands. It was. It was actually a great way

427
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: to spend the summer and get sunburned.

428
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Speaker 2: Okay, so you still have kids in school, right, I do.

429
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Speaker 2: So how many times you've been married?

430
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 4: Just the once? I'm a little allergic to it, Bob,

431
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: but just the ones.

432
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Speaker 2: Okay, So you waited a while. Why did you wait?

433
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: Were you sewing your wild note? So you hadn't met

434
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: the right person or what was happening?

435
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: I think you know the latter. I think that I

436
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 4: would always I was so happy to be in a

437
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 4: band and wanted to make sure that I was committed

438
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 4: to that. And it was just, you know, the right person,

439
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 4: and and of course you never know the way these

440
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: things shake out. But I wanted to have kids when

441
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 4: I had the time, and I think that, you know,

442
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: I learned a lot about being a dad from four

443
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 4: great dads in the band. You know, they you know,

444
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: in the early days, they brought their kids on the road,

445
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 4: and so I remember I was talking to Robbie's wife

446
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 4: about it the other day when Boris, their son, came

447
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 4: to Europe in Belgium and Germany, when we played with

448
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 4: the Rolling Stones, and then you know, there he was

449
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 4: with a lanyard around his neck and it was hitting

450
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: the floor. He was so small and he was tripping

451
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 4: over it. He was just a wee thing, and he

452
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 4: experienced music. And so I got to grow up and

453
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 4: have those kids in my life, and then I got

454
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 4: to have my own kids. But I learned how to,

455
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 4: you know, really be a dad and be a musician.

456
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 4: But by the time I was i'd had kids, it

457
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 4: was over and you know, there were no absolutes in life.

458
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 4: So I'm very thankful for it. Now I've got time

459
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: to spend with my kids.

460
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: And Rob, how many kids do you have?

461
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: I just have one son who's an aspiring musician.

462
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 4: He's a great musician. He's a touring musician.

463
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

464
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's ask the most important question. Is he off

465
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: the payroll?

466
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, for the most part, he just his own home.

467
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: This summer, moved into his first house. I wouldn't say

468
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: he's entirely off the payroll. There's a he's got the

469
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 3: use of the Mini Cooper, but he's pretty pretty self sufficient.

470
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: He's got a job that's paying his way, and he's

471
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: touring as a bass player in a band, and he's

472
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: kind of the the driving force behind the band.

473
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: So he's the Robbie. He's the Robbie of the band

474
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 4: really because he's doing all the bookings. And Robbie did

475
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 4: all the bookings for the band in the early days.

476
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 4: So he's learned. He's got a great mentor there.

477
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: And he doesn't have a day job. He's supporting himself

478
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: as a musician.

479
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: No, he does have a day job. He did a

480
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: master's degree in neuroscience and he works with he works

481
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: with people who've had brain surgeries. Helping them rehab and

482
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: doing some physio type of stuff, mirror therapy with them,

483
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: and he also does analysis for a company that does

484
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: hallucinogenic therapy for veterans with PTSD. Kind of a big

485
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: up and coming thing. People, you know, this is a

486
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 3: major on the horizon thing.

487
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: You guys have toured around the world. A lot of

488
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: successful acts come from Canada. For those outside of Canada,

489
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: what do they not understand about Canada?

490
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: Can I say it? Johnny?

491
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got to.

492
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: Saying used to be I think it was Ronnie Hawkins

493
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: said in Canada you have to you have to work

494
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: ten times as hard to get one tenth as far.

495
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: And I think it's just that the dis between cities

496
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: to be a touring band in Canada is absolutely grueling.

497
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: You're contending with huge distances, you're contending with horrific weather,

498
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: and you know, you go to the States and there's

499
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: another big city every hour or two hours, and in

500
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: Canada you might have a fifteen hour drive between gigs.

501
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: So it kind of weeds out the people who it's

502
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: not really for. You know, if you're going to be

503
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: a touring band in Canada, it's because you really love

504
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: what you're doing and you're devoted to it, So I

505
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: think that makes a difference. The other thing I think

506
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: is that Canadian bands, the example that was set for

507
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 3: us by people like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, is

508
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: that you walk on stage and you're kind of the

509
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: same person on stage that you are off stage. It

510
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: wasn't about the make over or the character that you're playing.

511
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: It was kind of a singer songwriter vibe even for

512
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: a band, like you know the guests who are whoever?

513
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: And I think that makes a difference.

514
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: It's grounding, okay to what degree. I mean, I've been

515
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: to Canada many times. You know, everybody seems to know

516
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: everybody in Canada. It's like a giant high school and

517
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: you can't let your ego get too big. Someone's going

518
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: to step on you. So any other differences that you

519
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: can point out between Canada and the United States.

520
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: I think. I think the cutting down of tall trees.

521
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: Canada is founded by skinning beavers and cutting down tall trees,

522
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: and it it's that way to this day. If you

523
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: get above your station, people get out their access and

524
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: starting you down. I think the US loves their success

525
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: stories and the US loves their mythology. Canada loves to

526
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: blow holes in our own mythology and we don't celebrate

527
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: our own the way the US does. But I think

528
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: we're learning. I think it's improved a lot over the

529
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: last twenty something years.

530
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: Also, I'll throw in that because of the our British influence,

531
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 4: the British really can they can take a grudge to

532
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: the grave. It's just like, yeah, really, that's it. And

533
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: in America they'll chop you down. But they also love

534
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 4: a redemption, which is pretty cool. And you see that

535
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 4: a lot. Well, I'm sorry for what I did. Martha Stewart.

536
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 4: Look what happened there, she's back on top. I don't

537
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 4: know that that would happen. I mean, you're right, our

538
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: population in Canada is a population of New York State.

539
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 4: In the entire country, that one state is like here

540
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: we go. So you're right, everyone does seem to know

541
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 4: everyone up here. But I would have to throw that

542
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 4: in that in the in the United States, you're you're

543
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 4: not guaranteed her redemption, but you're it could be tabled.

544
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: And I like that about America. I think that's that's

545
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 4: pretty cool. And in Canada it's like, really, we can forgive,

546
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: but we'll never forget.

547
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: Do you run.

548
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 4: It's kind of run like an Italian family.

549
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: So so true, Johnny, you talk about coming back from

550
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: Berkeley and your mother taking a phone call from Gord.

551
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 4: How did Gordon doug downy? Well, as my dad. My

552
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: dad was at the university here and I think you

553
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 4: know he was going for tenure at the medical school,

554
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 4: and they were kind of dancing around it, and he

555
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 4: went to he got on a plane and went to

556
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: Nigeria because they'd offered him the chair of medicine there.

557
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 4: And then he got to Nigeria and they said, yep,

558
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 4: you've got the job. And then he was at a

559
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: dinner and this guy said, oh, somebody's been bitten by

560
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 4: a snake and they died, and so anyway, I will

561
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: continue with the dinner. And my dad said, what was

562
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 4: that and the guy said, oh, green, mom, but bit

563
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: this guy. But you know that happens all the time.

564
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 4: And my mom is if she sees a snake on TV,

565
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 4: it's like well, so she'd have a heart attack. So

566
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 4: there was no going to Africa. But my dad said

567
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 4: something to me that was really interesting. Sometimes to come back,

568
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 4: you gotta go away. So I'd gone to Berkeley, and

569
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 4: without even knowing it, I came back and I was

570
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: the only guy in town who had been to Berkeley. Now,

571
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 4: I think that carried a little bit of something. And

572
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 4: you know, there's great drummers around Kingston even today, and

573
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: so maybe that that just highlighted my name more than

574
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 4: it should have. I don't know. But when I got

575
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 4: back and Gord had known me because of the high school,

576
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: and I'm the same age as his brother Patrick, so

577
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: maybe Patrick had said something I don't know, and so

578
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 4: that's kind of how they came to know me. I

579
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: don't actually know.

580
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: Wow, were you aware of Johnny and playing the drums

581
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: at the time?

582
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: I was not. I was two years ahead of Gordon

583
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: Paul in high school and five years ahead of Johnny,

584
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 3: so I was not that aware. But we had someone

585
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: who we thought was lined up for drums and it

586
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: just wasn't working out. There was no he had no

587
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: time for us, and we just said, well, does anyone

588
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: know a drummer? And of course our circle was small.

589
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: We're thinking about our high school basically, you know, not

590
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 3: even the city at large. It was more, you know,

591
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 3: our neighborhood and Gord or yeah, it would have been.

592
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 3: Gordon said, there's a kid in the high school, Johnny,

593
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 3: and I think he just went to Boston to Berkeley,

594
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 3: and he's a good drummer. I've heard he's a really

595
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: good drummer. He said, let's check him out. Very simple,

596
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 3: and as Johnny says, he showed up for the first

597
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: rehearsal and there was already a drum kit in my parents' basement,

598
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 3: and he came in and we smoked a couple of joints,

599
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 3: and he woke up and he was on the road.

600
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 4: And it was very We should point out that it's

601
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 4: Rick McCreary. It was really his gig to give up,

602
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 4: because he's a beautiful drummer, a great player, and he

603
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: was the drummer and Rick in the road. And I

604
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 4: think maybe, you know, as I've said a couple of times,

605
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 4: I think his dad said to him, you know, why

606
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 4: don't you get you know, university under your belt, and

607
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: then you can go and do all this stuff and

608
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 4: and and but go to university and get that out

609
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 4: of the way. His dad was kind of steam pressing

610
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 4: him a little bit, and and that just it was

611
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 4: his It was really his gig to give up.

612
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: But that was that was the thing for all our

613
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 3: parents really that certainly my parents Gord's parents, was get

614
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: university under your belt. You got to have something to

615
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: fall back on. H So, having no other options and

616
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: just wanting to be in a band, I thought, well,

617
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: go to art school. I could do that. That's how

618
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: bands are formed, isn't it. That's how the you know,

619
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: Lennon Clapton, Keith Richards, they all went to art school.

620
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: I thought, that's what you do, okay.

621
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: You know we talked and you talk about Queen's College

622
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: and everything in the book of the three other members

623
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: of the band and yourself. Did any of you finish school?

624
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: I finished? I got a fine arts degree, and Gorge

625
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 3: Sinclair got a history degree. Gordon Downey dropped out after

626
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: third year. He was doing poly political science and film,

627
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 3: and Paul Langui dropped out part way through his first

628
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: year of journalism in Ottawa.

629
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 2: And did they drop out because of the band?

630
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: No? Well, Gord Downey I would say yes, he did

631
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: drop out because of the band because at that point,

632
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 3: you know, Gordon I had been in a previous band

633
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: that was working three, four, sometimes five nights a week

634
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: and we were trying to go to university at the time,

635
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: and that was really not panning out too well. So

636
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: we quit that band and said, let's just form a

637
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: band of friends for fun, and that was the tragically hit.

638
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: But by the time I finished my fourth year, we

639
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 3: were gigging three, four or five nights a week and

640
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 3: making enough money to kind of keep body and soul together,

641
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: and we just thought, let's ride this and see how

642
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 3: far it goes.

643
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: Now, Johnny, your father's a doctor. What does he think

644
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: about you playing in a band while you're in high

645
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: school in not finishing college.

646
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't even go. Yeah, I finished high school.

647
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 4: But as Robbie's in university, Gord Sinclair's in university, these

648
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 4: guys are just they're in. But I had two older

649
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 4: brothers that were finishing university and there were no jobs.

650
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 4: So this was nineteen eighty four, so they were going

651
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 4: to have they both had to go back. One did

652
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 4: a master's and another one went into law. So my

653
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 4: argument was that you go to university and there's no job,

654
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: so you go to go back to university. And they

655
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 4: were like, yeah, you're right. And my dad was always like,

656
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: like all of our parents, you got to get up

657
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: and enjoy what you're doing every day. And so it

658
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 4: was very much that that I could at least give

659
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 4: it a try. I got entrance to university, and so

660
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 4: that was good enough for them. But it was an

661
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 4: interesting time to be uh. As we've we've often said,

662
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 4: it's like, it's not like the parents were shouting at

663
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 4: the top of the rooftops. You know, our sons are

664
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 4: going to be musicians. You know it was you know.

665
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: It, yeah, supportive but qualified.

666
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, so yeah.

667
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh okay. This drummer whose drums it was, who was

668
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: pressured by his parents to continue his education, do he

669
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 2: ever circle back with regret?

670
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 4: No, No, I don't think so. He went into mining

671
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 4: and he became he did very well and became, you know,

672
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 4: a father, and I just think his h I don't.

673
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: I don't think so. It was a lot of work

674
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: to be in that band, right, Robbie the Rodents, And

675
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 4: I don't think he ever kind of looked at it

676
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: that way. I never got I saw him the other

677
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 4: day and he was just he was beaming. He was

678
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 4: beaming in the movie. And I don't know, maybe Robbie's

679
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: got a different take on it, but he's he was

680
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: very supportive of us, and he was not jealous. He's

681
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: not that kind of a guy. He's really a beautiful,

682
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 4: big heart. That's what I got from it.

683
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think he has any regrets. He's still

684
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 3: drums all the time. He has a place set up

685
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 3: not too far from Kingston where he keeps the kids,

686
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: set up with the PA system, and he goes and

687
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: he plays drums for two days a week to workout

688
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: his angst and then he goes back in. Is you

689
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: know VP at a bank or VP of Barrett Gold

690
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: or whatever.

691
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: Okay, when Johnny joins the band, is everybody else involved?

692
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 2: Or is Paul Langmah not in the band yet?

693
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 3: Paul was not in the band yet, and we didn't

694
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: even really have Before Paul, we had a sax player

695
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: and we didn't even have him yet, so it was

696
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 3: really just it was the three of us and Gordon Downey,

697
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 3: so we were a little four piece. And then shortly

698
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: thereafter we got a sax player and he was with

699
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 3: us for about eighteen months, and we kind of over

700
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: that eighteen months we went from never having played a

701
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 3: gig to being kind of the popular band in eastern Ontario,

702
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: starting to travel bit make a name, and we had

703
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: to part ways with our sax player, who was some

704
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: years older than us. He had a very different history

705
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 3: from us. And at that point, I think we could

706
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: have chosen, you know, who's the hot shot guitar player

707
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 3: in the area. We could have cast a much wider net,

708
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 3: and instead we chose a good friend. You know, It's like, well,

709
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 3: Paul knows how to play four chords on the guitar

710
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: and it's not like it's rocket science. Were better off

711
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 3: to choose someone who were friends with, who we can

712
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 3: hang out in a van with four fifteen hours driving

713
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: between gigs and he'll learn how to play the guitar.

714
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: And boy did he learn how to play the guitar.

715
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 3: He was already trying to write songs. But he became

716
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: a great songwriter in his own right, and he's got

717
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 3: a great voice. So it was the right call.

718
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 2: Okay, From the moment Johnny joined the to the recording

719
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: of the so called EP before the first album. How

720
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: long a period of.

721
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 3: Time is that, would you say, Johnny? Three years?

722
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 4: I yeah, little less? Yeah, maybe a little less, because

723
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 4: we got together in eighty four and then we played

724
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 4: a sprinkling of gigs, and then Davis joins and then

725
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 4: he's gone. And in the movie you see these pictures

726
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 4: of us as a five piece, then a four piece,

727
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 4: then a five piece again, and those pictures are cool

728
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 4: because that's Robbie's wife taking those photographs. It was black

729
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 4: and those beautiful black and white. So we took these

730
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 4: band photos and then two days later Davis was gone,

731
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 4: and then we had to call her again to say

732
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 4: we gotta go to some of those same places again

733
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 4: and take photos again, minus one, but Paul came in. Yeah.

734
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: I think by eighty seven we had recorded that little

735
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 4: Baby Blue record, right, Robbie, So this was just a

736
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 4: two and a half years maybe.

737
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Okay, it's hard to keep a band together. They're all

738
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: these different mindsets. Did anybody think, or certainly you two

739
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: sing Wait a second, this isn't going to work out.

740
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: Either I got to join a different band, or I

741
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: got to live a straight life, or you guys all

742
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: in with everybody all in all the time.

743
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 4: It's funny. I was thinking about that the other day,

744
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 4: Pop because when I joined the band, I remember auditioning

745
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: with Robbie and Gord and Gord Sinkla're handing me a

746
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 4: Little Richard record and say here's a song. The go

747
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 4: can't help, but we're going to do our version of that,

748
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 4: and we're also going to write some of our own tunes.

749
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 4: And what's really cool about it is that in that

750
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 4: time period, you know, we were influenced by different bands,

751
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 4: but those bands were career bands. It was The Stones, Aerosmith,

752
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 4: you know, you name it, and so we made a

753
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 4: commitment to each other.

754
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: Then.

755
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 4: I don't think that people do that now, and I

756
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 4: don't know that I would. I would do too well

757
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: in a band if we had to start it now.

758
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 4: But back in those days, you know, we just wanted

759
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 4: people to hear us. And if it was six people,

760
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 4: and then you know, next time we came to that

761
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: town it would be fifteen people or something like that.

762
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 4: But the thing about it, which is captured in the

763
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 4: movie by Mike beautifully, is that it was the commitment

764
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 4: that we met, that we made with each other, and

765
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 4: the luck that we had to meet each other in

766
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 4: the first place. I think that that really kind of

767
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 4: comes out about it, but that people don't seem to

768
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 4: have that anymore. They want to be an individual and

769
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 4: then have a bunch of players. This guy plays keyboards

770
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 4: in that band, and he plays bass in that band,

771
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: and he's the backup singer in that and they try

772
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 4: and fragment themselves. And as my drum teacher used to say,

773
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 4: my beautiful drum teacher, Jim Blackley, just you know, stay

774
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 4: the course, just do that. And we did that, and

775
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 4: there were hard times in the beginning, so I'm glad

776
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 4: we did.

777
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: Okay. Today is different the Internet, et cetera. You know,

778
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: in the early seventies there was a whole DJ movement

779
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: and now you'll go to a club and they'll have

780
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 2: somebody spinning records. But when you guys are playing out

781
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 2: in Kingston, how many opportunities are there? Where is there

782
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: to play? What does it look like you're booking the gigs, Robbie,

783
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: What are the opportunities?

784
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 3: They were more than you'd think. I thought the same

785
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: thing when we started out. But we were just eager

786
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: to play, and we thought the only way we're going

787
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: to get better is playing anywhere and everywhere. We played

788
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: sweet sixteen parties, We played parties at health clubs. There

789
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: was a biker bar that had urban folk dancing that

790
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: we became kind of a house band. There there was

791
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 3: another bar in town that featured mostly blues and R

792
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: and B acts, and they were very serious about that,

793
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: bringing in blues and R and B authentic roots music,

794
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,959
Speaker 3: and it used to bother them so much that they'd

795
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: hire us on an off night and we'd set a

796
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: new bar record and pack their place out. So we

797
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 3: became a house band there as well. So we're playing

798
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: two competing bars as house bands. But then we'd go

799
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 3: and play a biker picnic, and then we'd go and

800
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 3: play at the university to college kids, and it just

801
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 3: it seemed, you know, a high school dance. We would

802
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: play anywhere, and at a certain point I was like, well,

803
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 3: we've played every place you can possibly play in this town.

804
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: We need to start casting the net further and further.

805
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: And at a certain point, probably a year and a

806
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 3: half in, we thought London, Ontario, which is in western

807
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 3: Ontario on the far side, few hours west of Toronto.

808
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: We thought, it's a bit like Kingston. It's a kind

809
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: of a they have a snooty university, kind of a

810
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: Canadian version of the Ivy League, and it's a big

811
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 3: city that has a big ceed underbelly, kind of like Kingston.

812
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 3: We thought, let's go there. And do the same thing

813
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: that we just did in Kingston, Let's do it in London.

814
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 3: And we did. In a weird sort of way. We

815
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: surrounded Toronto and then we'd make little forays into Toronto.

816
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: And the guy who booked the Horseshoe Tavern, which is

817
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 3: quite a famous venue in Toronto for roots music, booked

818
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: by our old friend x Ray McCrae. It was a

819
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 3: Kingston guy. I called him up one day cold call

820
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 3: and said, Hi, we're the Tragically Ip and we're from Kingston.

821
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: He said, Kingston, what are you coming through? I'll book you.

822
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 3: It was really pretty much that easy, okay.

823
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: A was anybody calling you, b if they said like, oh, come,

824
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: we'll give you fifty dollars in beer, you would.

825
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 4: Say absolutely yeah.

826
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: The deal. The deal I had was everyone in the

827
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: band gets fifty dollars and we drink for free and

828
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 3: you pay for the pa in lines.

829
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 4: But we had to work up to that though, Bob,

830
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 4: because I remember I looked in a little a book

831
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 4: that I had, uh and it was in nineteen eighty five,

832
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, and I remember we played this place,

833
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 4: Lake Ontario Park. Robbie booked the gig. It was an

834
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 4: afternoon gig. I don't think anyone showed up, but we

835
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 4: got one hundred and six dollars of that gig. We

836
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 4: didn't have to pay for PI. So we were, we

837
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 4: were on the move. We were we were starting to

838
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 4: really get some gravity.

839
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: We did have standards. There was one gig where we

840
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 3: were on the Marquee. We were book built second to

841
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 3: Shepherd's Pie, and I think we were we were in

842
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 3: a no show. I think we pulled the plug on

843
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: that one.

844
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: But okay, And how many nights a week were you

845
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: working then?

846
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 3: At that point we were probably working like two nights

847
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 3: a week.

848
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: And then how much most of you, if you were

849
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: working two nights a week, how much were you rehearsing?

850
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 3: Uh, not very much rehearsals for the band After that

851
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 3: first couple of years, first year and a half, most

852
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: of the rehearsing happened in sound checks, dressing rooms, hotel rooms,

853
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: you know, and on those occasions when we did get

854
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 3: together with a specific purpose. You're gonna play on Saturday

855
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 3: Night Live or you're gonna you know, you're going out

856
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 3: on tour. For three months, we've rented a place for

857
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 3: you to go and rehearse and we would get together

858
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: and we'd jam. For the most part, there is very

859
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 3: little rehearsing. Like you know, if you ever saw the

860
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: band live, it's not like we rehearsed our endings very well.

861
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: Okay, when you're working two nights a week for fifty

862
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: dollars a piece in beer, inside of you saying oh yeah,

863
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: we're gonna make it. We're gonna be on TV, We're

864
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: gonna be famous for you saying we're getting high with

865
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: our buddies. This is what it is.

866
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think by the time Push came to Shove,

867
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 3: we'd been doing it for about three years, and by

868
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 3: that point we were probably making about three hundred dollars

869
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: a piece each a week, and that just seemed like

870
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: an that we could pool our money and rent an apartment,

871
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 3: be like the monkeys, you know. That was you know,

872
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 3: I'll ride trikes around our apartment together. Yeah, when you're

873
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: working two days a week, that's not really a I

874
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 3: don't think we ever really had dreams of a world conquest.

875
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 3: It was always just kind of putting one foot in

876
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 3: front of the other. So if we were playing two

877
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: gigs a week, the ambition would have been we need

878
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 3: to get another gig every week. That was we aim low.

879
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: You were the booker was just like on your brain

880
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven, were you calling people incessantly? How

881
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: much work and how much mental capacity or a mind share?

882
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 2: Was this taking.

883
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 3: More than I liked, more than I had capacity for it?

884
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 3: But no, it wasn't on my mind twenty four to seven.

885
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: Being in a band was on my mind twenty four

886
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 3: to seven. The booking part was a little bit of

887
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: an annoying task, not one I was really well suited for.

888
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 3: But after about the first you know, first six or

889
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: eight months, we had a handful of gigs that were regulars.

890
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 3: You know, as I said, there was the Urban Folk

891
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 3: Dancing Club on the one side of town, and then

892
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 3: there was the Roots Bar on the other side of town,

893
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: and we were kind of operating as a house band

894
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 3: of both of those. So that's you know, that was

895
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 3: good for a bunch of good paying gigs every month,

896
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 3: and then it was just a matter of filling in

897
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: what we could. And it started with me making calls,

898
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 3: but then the calls started coming in. You know, whether

899
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: it was a you know, if you got a high

900
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 3: school dance that was that was a good gig. They

901
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 3: might pay eight hundred dollars for that, you know, So.

902
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it's probably the statute of limitations. Usually these

903
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 2: gigs paid cash. Did you ever to clear the money

904
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: pay taxes on it?

905
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 3: Well, yes, at a certain point, I think around the

906
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 3: time up to here came out. I asked my father,

907
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: who had been filing my taxes for me, or I

908
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 3: thought he'd been filing my taxes. I went to him

909
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 3: and it turns out that I was in about eight

910
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 3: years of arrears tax so I had some I had

911
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 3: some sorting and explaining to do. But yeah, we we

912
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: always operated very above board. We were union members from

913
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 3: long before we needed to be union members. You know,

914
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 3: I don't know, I just that's kind of we're sort

915
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: of a middle upper middle class kids from a small town,

916
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 3: and our parents were all professionals, and it was all like,

917
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 3: you do everything above board. That's the way we were

918
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 3: and still are.

919
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 2: Okay, So you get together. At first, it's kind of

920
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: a garage band. You're playing covers. How does original material

921
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: come into the equation?

922
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 4: It was it was done pretty holistically. It was just

923
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 4: kind of we're going to play these covers and then

924
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 4: sneak a couple of these originals and our courts and

925
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 4: Clothes really doing a lot of the writing, and Robbie

926
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 4: and and you know, we had some kind of bluesy

927
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 4: kind of numbers. And then in those days you had

928
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 4: to file a list, and the bar owners in some

929
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 4: cases wanted to see the list. So Robbie could tell

930
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 4: you better than I could about some of the names

931
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 4: that were used that were fictitious. But we do, as

932
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 4: I said, you know, a little Richard tune and then

933
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 4: one of our tunes baby blue Blood and what were

934
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 4: what were some of the names that we we had

935
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 4: to sort of file in as.

936
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 3: The Reformed Baptist blues and yeah, heart Attack love.

937
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 4: By written by but written by.

938
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 3: We would we would say, oh this is off of Yeah.

939
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 3: They did say we don't want any original music, just covers. Yeah,

940
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 3: but we weren't playing but we weren't playing hits like

941
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 3: we weren't. We never played top forty. If we were

942
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 3: going to play a Rolling Stone song, we weren't going

943
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 3: to play Satisfaction or nineteenth Nervous Breakdown. We were playing

944
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 3: something off the first record or off the hook or yeah,

945
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 3: have Mercy or off the hook or something like that.

946
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 3: So if they'd say, what's that song there, and if

947
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 3: it was one of ours, we'd say, oh, that's off

948
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 3: of a German bootleg of the Doors, and they'd say, oh, okay,

949
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: that's good. That's good because Bob.

950
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 4: In those days in Canada anyway, it was like as

951
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 4: easy top cover band. It was a Owling Stones cover

952
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 4: band that they were from actually Kingston called the Blushing Brides.

953
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 4: And then you know other other covers are CCR. Yeah,

954
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 4: there's a band band called Green River. So they were

955
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 4: being booked and then we were kind of creeping in

956
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 4: like that, and people wanted to see what the material was. Okay,

957
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 4: you guys are getting a little bit of traction, but

958
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 4: let's see the let's see the setlist and who's who's

959
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 4: whose tunes of those they're kind of quirky, but go ahead,

960
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 4: you know. And and so that's how we got better

961
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 4: at our own tunes.

962
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 3: And I think by having a really obscure setlist, you

963
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 3: know that we could put the Monkeys back to back

964
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 3: with Howl and Wolf. Uh. People really had no expectations

965
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 3: and it allowed us to slip our material in and

966
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, they didn't know any of the songs we

967
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 3: were covering so our songs fit in beautifully.

968
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 4: And then we got then we got requests for those songs,

969
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 4: which was really cool, which pumped our tires. Which is

970
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 4: an original band, that's what you want. Yeah, and so

971
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, well we weren't going to play it tonight,

972
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 4: but we'll throw it in. So that was cool.

973
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: Okay. A lot of bands quite consciously write rigial materials,

974
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: say the only way we can break if is if

975
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 2: we have our own material. Was this a very conscious thing? Okay,

976
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: we want to make it, We have to write original stuff.

977
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think anyone who was thinking too much

978
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 3: about making it. I think that the idea of writing

979
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 3: our songs, writing our own material was just a natural

980
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 3: extension of you know, you've been learning songs for the

981
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: last ten years, over and over, learning other people's songs.

982
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 3: You pick up a little bit about how to write

983
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 3: a riff, what song structure is. It seems natural. After

984
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: a while, It's like the mystery is kind of blown.

985
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 3: It's like, not the mystery of how to write a

986
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 3: great song that will always be a mystery, but the

987
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: mystery of how to put a song together is no

988
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: longer a mystery, and it's like, oh, I think I

989
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 3: can do this, you know, a simple chord progression. We

990
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 3: just need some lyrics. And Gorge Sinclair was really natural.

991
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: He was the one that was really kind of he

992
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 3: was coming forward with song ideas and everyone, I think

993
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: everyone in the band felt like, well, we all want

994
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 3: to be songwriters. He's actually doing it, and it kind

995
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: of kicked our asses a bit to step up and

996
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 3: dig in and start putting ideas.

997
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 2: Forward, you know, jumping a little bit forward. There's a

998
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: point in the documentary where Gordon down he says, I

999
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: need to write all the lyrics and it's a little

1000
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: uncomfortable and it's hinto there's a little tension. Tell me

1001
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: what was going on there?

1002
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 3: Well, I he did need to write the lyrics. You know,

1003
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 3: he's as the lead vocalist. It made sense that he

1004
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 3: needs to be in tune with what he's singing. He

1005
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 3: needs to feel it. But as songwriters, it did feel

1006
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 3: a bit like Paul Langua and Gorge Sinkler were both

1007
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 3: writing lyrics at the time, and you know, Johnny and

1008
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 3: I were collaborating on musical ideas and Gordon I were

1009
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 3: collaborating and we were all collaborating together, but Paul would

1010
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 3: come in with a finished song, music and lyrics. Gorge

1011
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 3: Sinkler would come in with a Finnish song, music and lyrics,

1012
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 3: and suddenly it felt like their wings were clipped. And

1013
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 3: I think that led to some resentments that carried forward.

1014
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: But Gord truly developed into an outstanding lyricist. You know,

1015
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 3: he was already becoming one, but he really developed, and

1016
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 3: I don't think maybe that would have happened without that,

1017
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 3: Maybe it would have. I don't know. It did lead

1018
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: to some problems for sure.

1019
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: Okay, you know it's depicted. You're all from the same town.

1020
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: You're all middle upper middle class. In the document, everything's groovy,

1021
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: everything's harmonious, except for that little blip. Was this really

1022
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: the case or were there ever any argument ever? Anybody

1023
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 2: threatening to quit?

1024
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 3: Yes, no, I don't think.

1025
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 4: I don't did anyone threaten to quit?

1026
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 3: No, I don't think anyone threatened to quit.

1027
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 4: But we had we had arguments, Yeah, okay, you had

1028
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 4: arguments about what. Uh one of our doozies. One of

1029
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 4: our doozies was the night that we met Jake Gold

1030
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 4: and Alan Gregg. We went out and met them and uh,

1031
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 4: we played a gig at Larry's Hideaway. You were there

1032
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 4: that night, Bob uh when was given an award recently,

1033
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 4: and we kind of touched on that Larry's Hideaway gig.

1034
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 4: And then we went to the Pilot House in Toronto

1035
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 4: and talked to Alan and Jake and we were trying

1036
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 4: to feel out management and and I don't think anyone

1037
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 4: didn't think that they weren't the right people. But we

1038
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 4: just were asking questions, which is what we did, which

1039
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 4: is what we needed to do. You know, are these

1040
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 4: the guys for us? And you know, and we had

1041
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 4: we had a pretty good We had a doozy that night,

1042
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 4: I think, didn't we rob Yeah, we did.

1043
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 3: I was I may have been the holdout on that one.

1044
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 3: I was really upset that night because Alan, who we

1045
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 3: perceived as the brains of the management. We were you know,

1046
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 3: maybe jumped the gun on that, but we perceived him

1047
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 3: as the brains of the management. And he curved Gordon

1048
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 3: Downey as the face of the band and Gorge Sinkler

1049
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 3: is the premier songwriter. He took them to one end

1050
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 3: of the table and bent their ears and charmed them

1051
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 3: and Jake was left at the other end of the table.

1052
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 3: With the three dummies, and I was irritated beyond belief.

1053
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to be with these guys.

1054
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: That's a divide and conquermentality. And anyone who tries to

1055
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: divide the five of us, you know, I was scorched

1056
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: earth about that. Not a chance. But also we operated

1057
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 3: by unanimity throughout our career. For the most part. We

1058
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 3: never enforced decisions a three to two or a four

1059
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 3: to one vote on something. So I was the odd

1060
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 3: one out on that, I think, and I would have said, Okay,

1061
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 3: that's it. There are managers, And it turns out Jake

1062
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 3: was a brilliant manager. He came up with great ideas

1063
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 3: and very very smart, savvy, street savvy manager.

1064
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go back. Now you're making three hundred dollars

1065
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: a week, and you see, we can live in an

1066
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 2: apartment with strikes like the monkeys. Where was everybody living?

1067
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 2: And did you like Jefferson airplane? This is a famous

1068
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 2: motif everybody gets together in a house. What did happen?

1069
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 4: We were kind of on the road a little bit there,

1070
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 4: but we needed to have sort of a It got

1071
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 4: to a point where we needed to have an apartment

1072
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 4: in Toronto. So we had with our road manager at

1073
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 4: the time, an agreement with some girls that we would

1074
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 4: just flop on the floor in one of the one

1075
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 4: of the rooms. So we found out later that we

1076
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 4: were giving him the money and then going back to Kingston.

1077
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 4: I think we were still maybe staying at girlfriend's houses

1078
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 4: or parents, but when we were on the road, we

1079
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 4: were on the road, we were in kind of limbo

1080
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 4: and this this road manager guy was ripping us off.

1081
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 4: He never gave the money to the girls and so

1082
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 4: we had to go and play a gig to pay

1083
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 4: off our It was a good learning experience we had

1084
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 4: to We had to pay off this rental debt that

1085
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 4: we had.

1086
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a good lesson that anyone involved with

1087
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 3: the band has to be part of the family. There

1088
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 3: has to be trust and commitment all the way around.

1089
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking about the vast distances in Canada. You're

1090
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: talking about being in Kingston starting to play London. Rock

1091
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 2: and roll lore is about burning the candle on both ends,

1092
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 2: being high, being drunk in car accidents. So what was

1093
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 2: your experience with all that late night driving.

1094
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were many car accidents, That's what I'd say.

1095
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 3: You know, we always had someone who would do the driving,

1096
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 3: the road manager or lighting guy. There was always someone

1097
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 3: who could do it, and we could all pile into

1098
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 3: the van. And I don't think we ever had Did

1099
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 3: we ever have a major accident, Johnny.

1100
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 4: No, we didn't, but I was. I was looking at

1101
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 4: a non itinerary a little while ago and Paul Langwall

1102
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 4: and Gord Sinkler used to do the lion's share of

1103
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 4: the driving for us, and they both smoked, so they

1104
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 4: cracked a window and they you know, they would have

1105
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 4: the sig out the window and they could keep going.

1106
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 4: Those guys. But Jake had has booked at this thing

1107
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 4: in London at the Casby Awards, and then Ottawa, then London,

1108
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 4: then Kitchener then back up to Ottawa and then after

1109
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 4: that gig. I remember that last Ottawa gig. We didn't

1110
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 4: have enough money to get hotel rooms, so we didn't

1111
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 4: so we went to the Chateau lauriermus Canadian Hotel and

1112
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 4: we kind of just bummed around one of the ballrooms.

1113
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 4: I don't know how we didn't get kicked out. We

1114
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 4: just kind of tried to catch a couple hours of

1115
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 4: sleep and then we played this gig and then we

1116
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 4: had to pile in the car. And I remember talking

1117
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 4: to Paul about this that I don't know how to

1118
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 4: this day that he stayed awake because you always had

1119
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 4: to have someone in the driver's seat beside him talking

1120
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 4: to him because it was and I fell asleep and

1121
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 4: I was just in the periphery of my vision. I

1122
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 4: was seeing these purple bunny rabbits poke their heads up

1123
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 4: just as just as we were going back. I was like,

1124
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 4: did you see that? You said? And Paul was like what.

1125
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 4: And then I drift off to sleep and I was like,

1126
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 4: how did we stay alive that night? And that was

1127
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 4: the power of Paul. He could just do it. He

1128
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 4: could like he could drive. He and Sinclair really were

1129
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 4: the reason that we're alive today. And you know, for

1130
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 4: so many of those late night, no hotel, no sleep

1131
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: gigs and we go up and play for half an hour,

1132
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 4: Bob and then Violin drive eight hours to London then

1133
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 4: back to Ottawa, and these were showcase gigs and it

1134
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 4: was Jake was like, you got to play this. I

1135
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 4: know it's terrible routing, but you gotta play this. This

1136
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 4: is going to be big, you know.

1137
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, when Jake and Allen sold themselves to us. One

1138
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 3: of the things they said is we're going to you know,

1139
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 3: look at this routing that you guys are doing. It's terrible.

1140
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 3: We'll end that routing. It'll all make sense from here.

1141
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 3: The routing will all be very logical. And of course

1142
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 3: the only thing that happened was the bad routing got

1143
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 3: multiplied by a factor of ten.

1144
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 2: Okay, when usually in the United States were talking about

1145
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 2: showcase gigs, You're in New York or LA playing for industry,

1146
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 2: hoping for some kind of leg up, what was a

1147
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 2: showcase gig outside to Toronto about.

1148
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 4: It was about getting college gigs. College gigs, yeah.

1149
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, college bookers.

1150
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 2: Okay, So you know, at first you're playing anywhere that'll

1151
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 2: have you to what degree are you conscious at first

1152
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 2: you're being paid to rehearse, you know, work it out

1153
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 2: on stage. At what point are you conscious of audience reaction,

1154
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: wanting to get the audience involved, and at what point

1155
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 2: do you get enough of a reaction do you feel

1156
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 2: wait a second, something is happening here.

1157
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 3: I think we're always very conscious of audience reaction. That

1158
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 3: was I've always felt that, you know, the five of

1159
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 3: us could be playing in a room and we're just

1160
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:50,799
Speaker 3: you know, working out an idea. The second a stranger

1161
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 3: comes into the room, we're all performing. We're just naturally

1162
01:10:55,479 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 3: that way. Everyone digs in differently and you're try trying

1163
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 3: to get a reaction out of the person that's walked

1164
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 3: into the room. It was like that from the very

1165
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 3: first gig on, very conscious of trying to get people involved,

1166
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: get people to pay attention. It was kind of a

1167
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 3: dance crowd at the time, like you wanted people up

1168
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:20,799
Speaker 3: and dancing, and then at a certain point it starts

1169
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 3: to get more crowded up front and there's not room

1170
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 3: to dance. But we'd look out and if there was

1171
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 3: a fight happening, and we'd say, hey, we're doing a

1172
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 3: good job. The energy is so high that people don't

1173
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 3: know what to do with their energy. And then of

1174
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 3: course you get tired of that and you move on

1175
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 3: to you know, it's become a bit more focused about

1176
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 3: the kind of attention you want. But yeah, always very

1177
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 3: important to us to try and make that connection with

1178
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 3: the audience.

1179
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 2: Okay, was there a breakthrough gig in your mind based

1180
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 2: on audience reaction or the way you felt to the

1181
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 2: whole field? We go wait, a second. We are on

1182
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 2: our away.

1183
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 4: You know, in the movie, there's a gig that we

1184
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 4: play and Bruce Dickinson is in the audience and it's

1185
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 4: kind of a make or break kind of thing and

1186
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 4: it was at Massey Hall, and that was Dickinson, Yeah,

1187
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 4: our man, and he came up to see us. He'd

1188
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 4: heard of the band, and it could have gone horribly wrong,

1189
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 4: and we might have thought it did. But I think

1190
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 4: that that was a moment that really shaped us getting

1191
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,799
Speaker 4: our record contract and then working with the great Don Smith.

1192
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 4: So I think, you know, looking back at it and

1193
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 4: seeing it in the film, that was obviously one of them.

1194
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 4: But you know, leading up to those those gigs there

1195
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 4: there were so so many of them, and you know,

1196
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 4: you're you're always promised that this is going to be

1197
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 4: the one, this is going to do this, and and

1198
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 4: it does pan out, and we seem to have all

1199
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 4: these kind of gigs and then other people would just

1200
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 4: they'd play the same gig and they'd get something from

1201
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 4: it and we didn't. Sort of we were living through

1202
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 4: it together, which was really great and beautiful, and we

1203
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 4: were a support system to each other. But it didn't

1204
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 4: happen overnight for us.

1205
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 3: Bob.

1206
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 4: It was just it was a long, long, long haul.

1207
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 4: And after forty years and it's our fortieth year now,

1208
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 4: I don't know. I have trouble sort of saying there

1209
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 4: was that one gig. You know, we had all these

1210
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 4: crazy things that happened to us. But I don't know, Robbie,

1211
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 4: there's one for you.

1212
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 3: No, I can't think of one. I mean, in retrospect,

1213
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 3: that one with Bruce is a good one, a good choice,

1214
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 3: because you know, we always used to say it's not

1215
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 3: a good gig until something goes wrong, because all the

1216
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,640
Speaker 3: best gigs, you know, if we walked out and had

1217
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 3: a sound check and everything was smooth soundcheck, we'd say

1218
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 3: we got a problem. If the sound check was terrible

1219
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 3: or a fraud, then we'd probably go on and have

1220
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 3: a great gig. But you know, a gig when you

1221
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 3: come on and something's malfunctioning at the beginning of it,

1222
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 3: oftentimes you just dig in. We weren't. We didn't get

1223
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 3: thrown by stuff like that. We would and Gord was

1224
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:28,559
Speaker 3: very good at just improvising his way out of something.

1225
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 3: And I think that's what Bruce Dickinson saw that night,

1226
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 3: was that what could have been a disaster, Gorge's mike

1227
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 3: tipping over and the mic blows up and the cable's out,

1228
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 3: and he just started into this pantomime thing and we

1229
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 3: just jammed while they sorted out the mic issue, and

1230
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 3: it worked smoothly because we were by the time people

1231
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 3: were seeing us in these larger venues, we were already

1232
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 3: kind of seasoned on stage. It was not new to us,

1233
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 3: and we didn't really have great expectations that, oh, this

1234
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 3: gig is going to break us. Now, we're just going

1235
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 3: to go out and we're going to do what we do,

1236
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 3: which is have fun together and try and connect with

1237
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 3: the audience, try and you know, try and stick in

1238
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 3: people's minds.

1239
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: Okay, It almost is played in the documentary like you're

1240
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 2: out doing your thing. If somebody says, oh, you should

1241
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: meet these managers, you meet Jake and Allen, that's it.

1242
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: How much previously did were you interviewing managers and saying no,

1243
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 2: were you trying to get managers? Were people coming up

1244
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 2: to you? Was this really like one and done? Or

1245
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 2: were there all these things going on?

1246
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 4: There were people in Kingston that were approaching us and

1247
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 4: they were saying, well, I think there's something really special

1248
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 4: about you guys, I'm not a manager, but I'd like

1249
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 4: to manage you. We had like a couple of people

1250
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 4: that we sat down with and then I think the

1251
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 4: conversations guarded and it's like, well, yeah, we do need management.

1252
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 3: You know.

1253
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 4: Robbie was being pretty taxed with the gigs Gord Downie

1254
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 4: was doing, using his his connections to get them. And

1255
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 4: I remember I got like a gig at my high

1256
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,679
Speaker 4: school because I was still at the high school there.

1257
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 4: So it was time to move outside of Kingston. And

1258
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 4: I think that, uh, we had this guy who worked

1259
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 4: for the band who was a good friend of Robbie's Fraser,

1260
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 4: and he got a tape into the hand of somebody

1261
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 4: who got it into the hand of Alan Gregg, and

1262
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 4: we had heard that he was in management or they were,

1263
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 4: you know, he liked music, and I think that that's

1264
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 4: it came. Came kind of like that. But we hadn't

1265
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 4: really been talking about management. But we knew we needed

1266
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 4: to make that that that dive into the deep blue

1267
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 4: water that we needed to, you know, for us to

1268
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:00,680
Speaker 4: really take another step, we needed to do something with

1269
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 4: a manager. Proper manager.

1270
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

1271
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 2: One thing that's in the book, which I didn't know.

1272
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 2: Is that they say that or in the book it

1273
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 2: has said that Alan greg put in multiple hundreds of

1274
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars. A. Was that true? B? Could you

1275
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 2: sense that?

1276
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 3: I don't know about multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars?

1277
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 3: But he did finance the Baby Blue record to the

1278
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 3: tune of probably thirty grand, and he financed the first

1279
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 3: two videos and that may have been to the tune

1280
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 3: of you know, eighty grand or one hundred grand. So yeah,

1281
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 3: he was probably in for over one hundred grand.

1282
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So you talk about those videos, you get

1283
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 2: action on Much Music. And with explosion of MTV, unless

1284
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 2: you were in Canada or Canada savvy, you didn't a

1285
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 2: know about Much Music. There wasn't MTV Candada at that point.

1286
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:00,759
Speaker 2: It reached everybody. It focused on Canadian bands. Your video

1287
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 2: got on Much Music. How did that happen and how

1288
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 2: did that affect the trajectory of your career?

1289
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 3: Ah? Well, Much Music was weird. It was fortuitous for

1290
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 3: us that it had just kind of really taken off

1291
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 3: in Canada and it was a different time. So on

1292
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,600
Speaker 3: a Friday night or Saturday night, if you went to

1293
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,759
Speaker 3: someone's place, there was a good chance that Much Music

1294
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 3: was showing and you're watching the young bands coming up,

1295
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 3: and there's something called CANCN where a third of the

1296
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 3: material has to be Canadian in origin. So what often

1297
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 3: happened is they'd have ghetto wised the Canadian artists into

1298
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 3: an hour or two hour special and then the rest

1299
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 3: of the day would be Michael Jackson and Cyndi Lauper

1300
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 3: and whoever else. But just the fact that we had

1301
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 3: a video on Much Music gives you a certain credibility

1302
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 3: and it allowed us to go and play in thunder Bay,

1303
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 3: thunder Bay, Ontario, or Sudbury, Ontario, or Saskatoon, and people

1304
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 3: have seen your video, so they're going to come out

1305
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 3: as curiosity seekers, As music lovers and curiosity seekers, they

1306
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 3: come to check you out, and then your job is

1307
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 3: be good, turn them on. And if you turn them on,

1308
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 3: the next time they'll bring a friend or a couple

1309
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 3: of friends. So you go from playing to forty people,

1310
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 3: the next time you cross the country, you're playing to

1311
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 3: you know, two hundred and fifty people, and then you're

1312
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 3: playing to one thousand people. But your job is always

1313
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:42,520
Speaker 3: the same. You've got an audience deliver. You have to deliver.

1314
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 2: Okay, you make a deal with MCA, they bring in

1315
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 2: a seasoned professional. Don Smith was originally an engineer starting

1316
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 2: to produce. You know, what was your experience of making

1317
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 2: that first record and because your newbies really and where

1318
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 2: you sat a fied with the.

1319
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:06,759
Speaker 4: Result he was done was just such a great breath

1320
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 4: of fresh air. He met us in Memphis and it

1321
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 4: was the wintertime, and he did this with the two

1322
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 4: records we did with him. We met up and we

1323
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 4: had a week before we started tracking, and we took

1324
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 4: over this abandoned Mexican restaurant next door to the studio.

1325
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 4: It had terracotta flooring and it was freezing, and we

1326
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,080
Speaker 4: rehearsed and he would make us rehearse the songs that

1327
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 4: he thought we should track, and I think we had

1328
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 4: quite a few extras, but he was focusing on a

1329
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 4: couple of the New Orleans is sinking blow a high

1330
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 4: dough every time you go, and he just made us

1331
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 4: go over them and over them and over them again.

1332
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 4: And you know, practice makes perfect. So those records, those

1333
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:02,479
Speaker 4: first two records anyway, were rehearsed and we went in

1334
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 4: and we executed. We were looking for versions of them,

1335
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 4: and so that kind of erases the red light fever.

1336
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 3: A little bit.

1337
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 4: And he was really a beautiful guy to work with.

1338
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 4: He would come into the studio and listen, and he'd

1339
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 4: go back in the tracking room, come back in the

1340
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 4: studio and listen, and then go back. And he said,

1341
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:26,719
Speaker 4: what I'm doing is I'm making it sound in there

1342
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 4: like it sounds in here. And he had that great

1343
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 4: ability to do that. He did it with Keith Richards,

1344
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 4: he worked with the Traveling Wilbury's, he worked with Tom Petty.

1345
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 4: He was like a live guy. So it was a

1346
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:43,440
Speaker 4: great experience and I really think it for our trajectory

1347
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 4: of recording from there on out. It really set us

1348
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 4: up with knowing what a great high watermark looked like.

1349
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely a lot of times the first record is done

1350
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 2: and when they get the actual product at the end,

1351
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: the being says, this isn't really who we are, or

1352
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 2: we were naive. Were you guys totally satisfied, or were

1353
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 2: you such newbies? Were you so green that you felt that,

1354
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 2: wait a second, we should have pushed harder for something.

1355
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 4: I personally thought. I personally thought it was the greatest

1356
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 4: thing since slice bread. I couldn't believe that that was

1357
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 4: us I couldn't wait to play it for friends in

1358
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 4: those days, Bob's you know your setup for the record.

1359
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 4: You know, we had a release and it was like

1360
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 4: we were finished in like March, maybe end of February,

1361
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 4: and then we had to wait five months before anyone

1362
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 4: before it came out. So I was chuffed about it personally.

1363
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. I was so excited. I loved the

1364
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 3: experience working with Don and when we got those mixes back,

1365
01:22:55,320 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 3: I was blown away. The thing you just described about

1366
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 3: feeling dissatisfied or this doesn't represent us. I think I

1367
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 3: felt that way a little bit about the Baby Blue

1368
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 3: record that proceeded at the EP, because I don't think

1369
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 3: that we even thought we were making a record when

1370
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 3: we went in to do it, so the song selection

1371
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 3: and everything else. But having said that, just having a

1372
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 3: record meant it was such credibility at that time that

1373
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 3: you had an album out. We were pretty excited and

1374
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:33,680
Speaker 3: it was something to show your parents, like see this,

1375
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 3: you know we're doing it.

1376
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, you have the cover with the scratch polaroids.

1377
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: How did that come to be?

1378
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 3: That was suggested to us. Michael Going was the photographer

1379
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 3: and he was known for mostly photographing like golf courses

1380
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 3: and travel destinations and things. But he was suggested and

1381
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 3: I got to be the the shepherd on art projects.

1382
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 3: So the you know, I wouldn't say it was the

1383
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 3: art director for the band, but I was the shepherd.

1384
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you were, Yeah, you were. You're the art

1385
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 4: director for that, Yeah, definitely.

1386
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,679
Speaker 3: So he he was suggested and his photographs were beautiful.

1387
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 3: I'd seen his work before in a an airplane magazine,

1388
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 3: you know, one of those flight magazines, in flight magazines,

1389
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 3: and yeah, he was a great guy. He just came

1390
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 3: on the road for a couple of days and did

1391
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:35,720
Speaker 3: portraits of us, took some live shots and a fantastic

1392
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:42,519
Speaker 3: guy and interesting, interesting art. But at that point I

1393
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 3: was not an art art director really. I was just

1394
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 3: I was a go between. The directord company was kind

1395
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 3: of this is what we're going to do, and I

1396
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,600
Speaker 3: would I would nod a lot. I wasn't given the

1397
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 3: chance out of the gate.

1398
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 2: Okay, So it is implied, and I want to dot

1399
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 2: the I that the publishing is shared amongst the band.

1400
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 2: A is that true?

1401
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 3: True? Yes?

1402
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 2: Okay, at this late date, most of people know when

1403
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 2: it comes to the actual recordings, most of the money

1404
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 2: is in the songs that bands break up over that. Certainly,

1405
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 2: certain bands, certain members are much wealthier because they wrote

1406
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 2: the songs. How did you guys decide that the publishing

1407
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 2: would be shared.

1408
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 3: We were in Paul Langui's basement and we had just

1409
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 3: received cassette tape mixes about to hear this is my

1410
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 3: recollection of it anyways, and we sat down and had

1411
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 3: the conversation about it, and it was decided. Although Gord

1412
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 3: Sinclair was still probably the pre eminent songwriter amongst us,

1413
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 3: Gord Downey was starting to write a lot more lyrics

1414
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 3: and there is a lot more collaboration and five way

1415
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 3: collaboration happening. We all want to be songwriters. We just thought.

1416
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 3: We sat down at the meeting, we just said, if

1417
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 3: this will eliminate a lot of fights, sharing everything equally,

1418
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 3: deciding whose song gets picked as a single is going

1419
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 3: to create a fight. Having someone's song take off and

1420
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 3: be a hit. They're going to show up at the

1421
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 3: next gig in a Mercedes and everyone else is going

1422
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 3: to be taking the bus, and it's like, you know,

1423
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 3: that's the recipe for a disaster. So we always thought

1424
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 3: the only way we're going to make it as a

1425
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 3: band is by lasting. We even even Bruce Dickinson when

1426
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 3: he signed us, he said, you're not the type of

1427
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 3: band that I'm going to sign and you're going to

1428
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 3: have a big hit on your first record. You're the

1429
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,880
Speaker 3: type of band that's going to take four or five

1430
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 3: records to build some kind of critical mass. And you're

1431
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 3: going to do that through laying live, by doing what

1432
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: you do, writing the songs you write, and by delivering

1433
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 3: those songs live. And he wasn't wrong. I just I

1434
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:13,519
Speaker 3: feel sad that I don't think bands now get that

1435
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 3: opportunity necessarily.

1436
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 2: Okay, the first album comes out, what are your expectations

1437
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 2: and what actually happens?

1438
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 4: I think maybe the first you know, the Baby Blue record,

1439
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 4: and I agree with what Robbie's saying. It was just like,

1440
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 4: here's the record. We're going to put a record out,

1441
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 4: according to Jake, and it's like okay, And he was right.

1442
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 4: It got us from Halifax to Victoria and that that

1443
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 4: was what we needed. And then we come back to

1444
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 4: do this other record and we put it out and

1445
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 4: we knew it was a full length record because as

1446
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 4: Robbie said, we refer to that as the Baby blue

1447
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:55,760
Speaker 4: record because it's just really an EP. So we were

1448
01:27:55,800 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 4: looking to maybe you know, bump up in venues size

1449
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 4: and play to more people. And that didn't happen right away.

1450
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 4: In fact, something that happened we started to get into

1451
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 4: the States because it was more of a you know,

1452
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 4: MCA was pushing us down there at first. And I

1453
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 4: remember we played in sort of Wilkesburg, Pennsylvania, and we

1454
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 4: didn't play to very many people, or maybe it was Indiana, Bloomington, Indiana,

1455
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 4: I think, and yeah, and Dave Powell came in and said, guys,

1456
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 4: hard times out there, I know, but guess what back home,

1457
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 4: you're about to go gold with up to here. So

1458
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,519
Speaker 4: while we were down to the States, the radio was

1459
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 4: doing its thing, Jake was doing his thing, and it

1460
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 4: was starting to get some traction. So we had that

1461
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 4: little baby blue record and then we were going in

1462
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 4: the right direction, you know, and so up to here

1463
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 4: was taken us up to there and it was it

1464
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 4: felt good, but we didn't really know that until we

1465
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 4: were down in the States playing a few people. And

1466
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 4: then of course that becomes a story later on.

1467
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, as you said earlier, Bobby, you're talking

1468
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 3: about connection with the audience and how important that was

1469
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:22,400
Speaker 3: to us playing to those four people in Bloomington, Indiana.

1470
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 3: There's a gig in Hoboken, New Jersey where we played

1471
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 3: to two people and that you know, we got up

1472
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 3: and delivered. We gave him a full show. We didn't

1473
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 3: pull any punches. It was like, it doesn't matter two people,

1474
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 3: two thousand people, you're still performing and you give it

1475
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:42,599
Speaker 3: everything you've got. And those two people came to probably

1476
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 3: sixty shows after that over the years, so there were

1477
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 3: lifelong fans. Same with two of the guys from Bloomington, Indiana.

1478
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 3: We were so excited. We thought it was John Mellencamp

1479
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 3: going to come to our gig tonight. He didn't make

1480
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 3: it that night. Now four people showed up, but one

1481
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 3: guy smashed his chair demanding an encore and he got it.

1482
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 2: So okay, first album runs in cycle. At what point

1483
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 2: do you start thinking about the second album and what's

1484
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,160
Speaker 2: the experience of recording the second album.

1485
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,799
Speaker 4: Well, there's one thing that happened. We were we were

1486
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:34,679
Speaker 4: doing some shows, you know, you know, in the States

1487
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 4: and back in Canada, but we were keeping in touch

1488
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,679
Speaker 4: with with Dawn Smith. He would phone, you know, phone

1489
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 4: us up and and see how we were doing. And uh,

1490
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 4: I remember I had a conversation with him. It was

1491
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 4: really interesting because he said, we're going to do another record, right,

1492
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 4: So I got a guy on the inside at uh

1493
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 4: Ampex take and they've got a really good batch of

1494
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:06,480
Speaker 4: tape because back in those days it was the adhesive

1495
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,720
Speaker 4: on the tape, and so they would talk to the

1496
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 4: guys in the factory and he said, Petty just got

1497
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,600
Speaker 4: a hole. He got one hundred rolls of tape and

1498
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,519
Speaker 4: he goes, I'm going to get this guy to send

1499
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 4: twenty extra roles of this good batch because we're going

1500
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:24,720
Speaker 4: to make another album. So we didn't know where, we

1501
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 4: didn't know when, but Don Smith is collecting tape because

1502
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:32,639
Speaker 4: he's wanting to work with us again. And that felt

1503
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:37,720
Speaker 4: pretty great too, and so we sort of started the

1504
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 4: ball rolling on that one. We're in the tour for

1505
01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 4: up to hear we're talking about the next record. We

1506
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 4: haven't written many tunes. There's like gams going on in

1507
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 4: the stage, but you know, later on we're starting to

1508
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 4: you know, we borrow people's houses to do you know,

1509
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 4: a little bit of writing here and a little bit

1510
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 4: of writing there. Somebody's cottage. Somebody's parents are away. So

1511
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 4: we're thinking of the second record, but we haven't sort

1512
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 4: of figured it all out, but we want to work

1513
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 4: with Down again. That's kind of how it started.

1514
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 2: The record is cut. What's your experience when the record

1515
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 2: is done?

1516
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 3: The second album?

1517
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we're all aware of kind of the

1518
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 5: sophomore curse, and I think it's almost expected, you know,

1519
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 5: as they say, every band spends years writing their first

1520
01:32:38,200 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 5: record and then they're not really prepared for their second record, And.

1521
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 3: On some level that may have been true. But I

1522
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 3: really think that we were going in with a solid

1523
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 3: batch of songs and we were much more relaxed in

1524
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 3: the studio and stretched out a bit, and I think

1525
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:00,680
Speaker 3: the second record showed a lot of growth from the first.

1526
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 3: And we're with Down, which we just knew that it

1527
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 3: would sound great, you know. We really trusted in Down

1528
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 3: fully and completely. He was a yeah, just a master,

1529
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 3: and he put us at ease, and we relaxed into

1530
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:23,680
Speaker 3: the process and just had at it, and we came

1531
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 3: out of there again feeling like this is we don't

1532
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,000
Speaker 3: know how it's going to be received, but we're really

1533
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 3: happy with this. This It reflects where we are now,

1534
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 3: and it was also felt a little closer to our

1535
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 3: live show, just being able to stretch out and take

1536
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:51,200
Speaker 3: songs in different directions on stage. So we just immediately

1537
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 3: said about touring like there were a few years there

1538
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,839
Speaker 3: from before up to here through the end of Fully Completely,

1539
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 3: where we were probably playing two hundred shows a year.

1540
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 2: So okay, you don't use Don Smith on the subsequent album. Why.

1541
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:16,679
Speaker 3: I think some of it was that Don was very

1542
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 3: Don's approach was about trying to capture the live sound

1543
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 3: of the band, and he was really focused on the

1544
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:28,760
Speaker 3: kick drum and the bass and the interaction and the

1545
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 3: micing and getting a live feel. But he wasn't so

1546
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 3: focused on lyrics, and I think Gord, as an aspiring poet,

1547
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:44,960
Speaker 3: wanted a little bit more involvement with someone in that respect.

1548
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 3: I don't think Chris was the guy that was going

1549
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 3: to give it to him Chris Anderides, but I think

1550
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,719
Speaker 3: it was felt like we've done two records with Don,

1551
01:34:55,800 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 3: we should try something different, and going from Memphis to

1552
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 3: New Orleans, it felt like there was a bit of

1553
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 3: a this search for the source happening, and London felt

1554
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:13,519
Speaker 3: like the next step in the search for the source.

1555
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 3: Because it was the London bar scene from the mid

1556
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 3: sixties or early sixties that really informed our initial approach

1557
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 3: as a band, So going to London seemed like a

1558
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 3: good choice, and we just kind of put feelers out

1559
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 3: for who might be interested in doing the record, and

1560
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 3: Chris Sanrin's was one of the people because we loved

1561
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 3: his work with Concrete Blonde, and he was so instantaneous

1562
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 3: in his enthusiasm. He said, when's your next show, I'll

1563
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 3: fly over. I want to be there, I want to

1564
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 3: see it, and he was Yeah, he bowled us over

1565
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:53,559
Speaker 3: with his enthusiasm, and that's all it took.

1566
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 2: The record has done. How do you feel about the

1567
01:35:57,160 --> 01:35:59,639
Speaker 2: record compared to the record you did with Don.

1568
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 4: It was I think it took for me a little

1569
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,160
Speaker 4: bit of digesting. You know. It was a different work

1570
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 4: ethic too. Uh. Chris was very nine to five and he, uh,

1571
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 4: you know, Fridays were kind of a wash. You know,

1572
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 4: you'd have lunch, tea and then things you kind of

1573
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:25,120
Speaker 4: wind down. Then we had uh, you know, Friday night, Saturday,

1574
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 4: Sunday night. We were on our own. There was no

1575
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:30,439
Speaker 4: sort of access to the studio with down we worked.

1576
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 4: We worked on a Saturday and then we we do

1577
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 4: a lot of listening with Don. That was the other

1578
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 4: thing is we knew what we had and Don would

1579
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 4: listen to what we were saying. And if he heard

1580
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 4: Gord Sinclair and I say, oh we can get that better,

1581
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 4: he'd say, Okay, let's track it again tomorrow. Let's have

1582
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 4: no problem, let's do it. Let's keep pushing it, keep

1583
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 4: pushing it. With Chris, it was not like that. It

1584
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 4: was very British, you know. The Brits have that way

1585
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 4: of doing it. It's like we're going to do the game,

1586
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 4: get the bed track, the backing track, then we're going

1587
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 4: to do the guitars. And then they don't fluff around.

1588
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 4: They just they get it. And then they're already booked

1589
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 4: for their next gig. So we're going to finish on

1590
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:19,680
Speaker 4: the fifteenth of January. Is when we're done, when we

1591
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:22,280
Speaker 4: go to mix, and the mix is the balance. They

1592
01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:26,800
Speaker 4: also erase tracks britz that we to. You know, when

1593
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 4: the guys we've worked with they don't need it and

1594
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 4: they don't hear it, they erase it, and when they

1595
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:34,759
Speaker 4: go to mix, it's just a balanced mix of everything

1596
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 4: that's there that they've done. And if you're very focused

1597
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 4: on it. It's great. They don't like to add stuff.

1598
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:43,720
Speaker 4: You can't come in and say, well, I want to

1599
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:45,559
Speaker 4: do this, I want to do that, And we were

1600
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 4: kind of getting into that. I loved the record with Chris,

1601
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:53,559
Speaker 4: but I really didn't know what we had until maybe

1602
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 4: we were on tour. I had no idea how it

1603
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:00,759
Speaker 4: was going to be received.

1604
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. You know. We

1605
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:07,639
Speaker 3: spent three and a half weeks doing bass and drums,

1606
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 3: and I did all my guitar parts in just over

1607
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:15,639
Speaker 3: two days, and then we never sat back and listened

1608
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:18,920
Speaker 3: like a listening party or you just don't know what

1609
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 3: you've got, and then you get a cassette tape a

1610
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:25,679
Speaker 3: couple of weeks later and it's like, oh, really interesting,

1611
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 3: and you have to listen a bunch of times. But

1612
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:31,679
Speaker 3: with the previous records, you left the studio knowing exactly

1613
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 3: what you had. You come out feeling a little bit

1614
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 3: shattered as a musician, because you should be, you should

1615
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:41,360
Speaker 3: feel a little shattered after a recording experience, but also

1616
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:45,799
Speaker 3: feeling really confident in the songs fully. Completely. Was definitely

1617
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 3: a change from that, and I remember thinking that the

1618
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 3: songs that were less developed, really developed with Chris, and

1619
01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:59,679
Speaker 3: the songs that were already strong live didn't jump forward

1620
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 3: as much much as I thought they would. But now

1621
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 3: with the you know, with the perspective of time, I

1622
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 3: think it's a fine record. I think it was you know,

1623
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 3: a good a good effort, and Chris did a fantastic job.

1624
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 3: But it was a strange experience to make.

1625
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 4: It was great. And you know what else happened, Robbie.

1626
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 4: Remember we were working with Chris and we were in

1627
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:25,639
Speaker 4: this great studio that was used to be called Morgan Studio.

1628
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 4: So Zeppelin had been in there the faces and then

1629
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:33,479
Speaker 4: they expanded it and became part of the Zomba music

1630
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:37,439
Speaker 4: group and they built studio on studio on studio. So

1631
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 4: it was a bit bit of a complex. And one

1632
01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:42,639
Speaker 4: day where there's this singlish, very English guy and he's

1633
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 4: great to have you here, and we'd see him every day,

1634
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 4: and you know, as time went on, his enthusiasm was

1635
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 4: kind of, oh hello, gents. One day, one day he

1636
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:57,600
Speaker 4: comes in and whispers in Chris's ear, and Chris is

1637
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:01,839
Speaker 4: like what who oh, come on, and he and then

1638
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:05,639
Speaker 4: the guy came back in and and Chris said, okay, well,

1639
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 4: they booked the studio with Daryl Hall. He's coming in

1640
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 4: and they know they shouldn't have done that, but they're

1641
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 4: moving us to the studio up the road. The good

1642
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 4: news is that's where they did the guitars were back

1643
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 4: in black. So we went up there and you guys

1644
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:28,880
Speaker 4: did your guitars at a different studio, and Chris Anderitas

1645
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 4: was like that ruddy Daryl Hall is in our studio

1646
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:36,240
Speaker 4: and fuck him, you know, And so we had a

1647
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:38,720
Speaker 4: good we had a good laugh about that, but we

1648
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 4: got booted out of the studio because he called him

1649
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:46,960
Speaker 4: Daryl Ball. It was. But Chris was a beautiful man.

1650
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 4: He was, he was, He was great. And yeah, Robbie's right, like,

1651
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 4: I don't think we really kind of knew the you know,

1652
01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 4: kind of record that we had until it was being

1653
01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:04,719
Speaker 4: played on the radio and Encourage got leaked, which gave

1654
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:07,719
Speaker 4: a little bit of a pump to it, and Jake

1655
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:11,759
Speaker 4: had to break some arms to get it. Radio stations

1656
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:14,400
Speaker 4: to stop playing it because it wasn't part of the setup.

1657
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:22,439
Speaker 3: And yeah, stop playing our record was a different problem

1658
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:22,760
Speaker 3: to have.

1659
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:25,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, until we're ready to put it.

1660
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 2: Out, okay, you end up essentially self producing thereafter, But

1661
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 2: then you go to work with Steve Berlin, and in

1662
01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:44,360
Speaker 2: the documentary, you guys are testifying about Steve Berlin, how

1663
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 2: great he was for the band. Hey, why did you

1664
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 2: decide to use an outside producer again? And what was

1665
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:52,639
Speaker 2: that experience like that made it so great?

1666
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:56,719
Speaker 4: No, I just remembered it was a suggestion of Jake's.

1667
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:59,799
Speaker 4: We were on tour and we had done one record

1668
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 4: like that, and I think Jake sort of was smart

1669
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 4: enough to know, you know, I think you need a producer.

1670
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:12,720
Speaker 4: You've already tracked some stuff. I think Steve Berlin would

1671
01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:16,040
Speaker 4: be great. He brought him on the bus and we

1672
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 4: knew him with Lost Lobos and Robbie will tell you

1673
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 4: about that whole thing.

1674
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the making of Trouble at the Henhouse, I think

1675
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 3: that it was a good record and it was necessary

1676
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 3: for us to self produce necessary exercise. We had our

1677
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:38,600
Speaker 3: own studio by this point are the Clubhouse, which we

1678
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:42,960
Speaker 3: made into a bit of a studio, and it was

1679
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 3: important that we do that. But it was a tough album,

1680
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:50,759
Speaker 3: and I think it exposed some fractures in the band,

1681
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:54,680
Speaker 3: and there was jocking for position power and who's going

1682
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,599
Speaker 3: to be closest to the producer's seed and who's going

1683
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 3: to make these calls? Because when you're in a five

1684
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:04,640
Speaker 3: way collaboration, you know, imagine five people trying to do

1685
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:09,360
Speaker 3: a painting together, and once one guy has a big, great,

1686
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:12,719
Speaker 3: big brush and he wants to paint everything black. It's

1687
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 3: you know, you get into creative differences. This is how

1688
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:21,479
Speaker 3: it happens. And we just felt having an outside arbiter

1689
01:43:23,360 --> 01:43:27,120
Speaker 3: who could make the call, had worked for us in

1690
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:30,439
Speaker 3: the past and would work for us again. And it did.

1691
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 3: And because we knew Steve Berlin from the roadside Attraction

1692
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 3: tours where Los Lobos came out on the road with us,

1693
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 3: he just seemed like a natural guy. We just got

1694
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 3: along famously with him, and he stepped in. He knew

1695
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 3: how bands work, he knows about the dysfunction that happens

1696
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:53,680
Speaker 3: in bands and what his role would be and he

1697
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:57,679
Speaker 3: just slipped into it very naturally. And he's and again

1698
01:43:57,920 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 3: a beautiful guy and part of the Hit family.

1699
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 2: So Okay, at what point does the Tragically Hip become

1700
01:44:07,439 --> 01:44:11,480
Speaker 2: Canada's band and become the biggest rock band in Canada?

1701
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:15,000
Speaker 2: And is that palpable? Do you feel it?

1702
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:23,439
Speaker 3: Uh? I've never bought into much of any of that.

1703
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:29,000
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know legacy stuff and the biggest

1704
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 3: band in the country. You know what about Rush, They're

1705
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 3: the biggest band.

1706
01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 2: You've always been huge Canadian acts, but the relationship that

1707
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:43,320
Speaker 2: Canada had with the Tragically hip was different and that

1708
01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:47,600
Speaker 2: the country really owned them. And as I say, this

1709
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 2: is from the outside, so I guess I'm asking, were

1710
01:44:50,160 --> 01:44:53,679
Speaker 2: you just seeing yourself as another arena band in Canada

1711
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:56,559
Speaker 2: or were you seeing yourself as something different.

1712
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:01,599
Speaker 4: I don't think we've ever viewed ourselves as something extra special.

1713
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 4: There's so many great talents in this country. We're just

1714
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:08,040
Speaker 4: kind of look at it like we're happy to be

1715
01:45:08,120 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 4: part of it. But I don't think anyone's like, yeah,

1716
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 4: I mean some of the things that happened and some

1717
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 4: of the people that wear your T shirts. She's like,

1718
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 4: did you see that? It was a young young swimmer

1719
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:21,920
Speaker 4: who won some Olympic medals. She's seventeen years old. Her

1720
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:25,360
Speaker 4: name is Summer McIntosh. I remember watching TV and her

1721
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 4: I think her dad was wearing a hip shirt. I

1722
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:32,120
Speaker 4: was like, that is super super cool because her daughter

1723
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:35,760
Speaker 4: is a star and what the hell are we doing

1724
01:45:35,800 --> 01:45:38,599
Speaker 4: on her Dad's T shirt and I thought, wow, that

1725
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,000
Speaker 4: was that. You know, you have little brushes like that.

1726
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:43,000
Speaker 4: But I don't think we ever sort of said, oh,

1727
01:45:43,040 --> 01:45:45,840
Speaker 4: you know, that's it. I agree with Robbie. You know,

1728
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:49,320
Speaker 4: the Pope was in our film Geddy Lee. It's like

1729
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:52,720
Speaker 4: the Godfather, like you know when he speaks, and that

1730
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 4: guy knows it very smart. He's a very smart businessman.

1731
01:45:57,160 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 4: He's a very incredible bass player. My god, and to

1732
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 4: have him in the movie, it's just like with all

1733
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:07,560
Speaker 4: the other people, it's just like amazing, amazing.

1734
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:11,080
Speaker 2: Okay, you have this great success, but you're working two

1735
01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:14,160
Speaker 2: hundred nights of a year on the road, you're recording music.

1736
01:46:14,920 --> 01:46:17,680
Speaker 2: At what point do you get a check? At what

1737
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 2: point do you say, I put in this hard work,

1738
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 2: I'm actually seeing some money. And what did you do

1739
01:46:23,160 --> 01:46:23,759
Speaker 2: with the money?

1740
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:33,000
Speaker 3: I bought a house, still living, been here for thirty

1741
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:39,920
Speaker 3: five years, same house. You know. It wasn't like, you know,

1742
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 3: being a big Canadian rock star is like being the

1743
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:52,080
Speaker 3: world's tallest midget. It's not quite a global phenomenon. We

1744
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:56,400
Speaker 3: were doing just fine, and we were expanding, and we

1745
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:59,240
Speaker 3: were playing a lot in Europe, and we had a

1746
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:01,280
Speaker 3: good thing going on the States, playing too, like a

1747
01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 3: thousand or fifteen hundred people every night, occasional arenas in

1748
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 3: some of the border cities. You know, things were good,

1749
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:13,519
Speaker 3: and that was a time, you know, around day for

1750
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 3: night where we were actually, you know, you could make

1751
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:20,240
Speaker 3: a little money off records, but it was always about

1752
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:26,639
Speaker 3: playing live, touring live for us, and we were always

1753
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:31,240
Speaker 3: focused on the tour, but also on what's next. What

1754
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:35,879
Speaker 3: you know, we need songs for the next project, whatever

1755
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,559
Speaker 3: that will be, and we just stayed focused on that.

1756
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 3: There was never a five year planned, ten year plan.

1757
01:47:42,680 --> 01:47:45,080
Speaker 3: It was more like a you know, a lot of

1758
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 3: it was a five minute plan or a five day plan.

1759
01:47:50,240 --> 01:47:55,600
Speaker 4: But you know, it's interesting also that Jake really was

1760
01:47:55,640 --> 01:48:00,920
Speaker 4: the guy who first said, here's your money, you're just

1761
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 4: don't spend it all in the same place. At the

1762
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:06,360
Speaker 4: same time, he goes, you've got to live off of

1763
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 4: this hump for not a year, but a year and

1764
01:48:09,320 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 4: a half because you've still got to do some writing

1765
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 4: and then some recording. Then we go on the road.

1766
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:18,400
Speaker 4: He was always conscious of us going to the trough

1767
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 4: too many times. Now we've got to disappear, and back

1768
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:24,400
Speaker 4: in those days you could disappear for a year and

1769
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:28,200
Speaker 4: there'd be no media on you. You would just disappear.

1770
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 4: And if you weren't around, maybe people played your records

1771
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:35,439
Speaker 4: a little more than because you weren't going to play

1772
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:39,640
Speaker 4: some shows. But and the other thing is that I

1773
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:45,200
Speaker 4: don't think the five year or three year planning, which

1774
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:47,280
Speaker 4: is why we've got this movie and this great book

1775
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:52,040
Speaker 4: that Robbie's worked on. The five year planning kicked in

1776
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:56,080
Speaker 4: when the career after we played our final show, which

1777
01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:59,640
Speaker 4: is kind of cool because what we have is our

1778
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:04,200
Speaker 4: music and that's our legacy, so we keep that chip shape.

1779
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 4: Then that's great, and that's Jake coming back into the

1780
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:12,080
Speaker 4: fold again. That that's when those we were we were

1781
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:14,760
Speaker 4: kind of rudderless. The boat wasn't really it was just

1782
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:19,680
Speaker 4: kind of floating around, and we knew we needed to

1783
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:25,600
Speaker 4: get the tapes sorted out, our new old music digitized,

1784
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 4: and to just keep some things going. The movie, the

1785
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 4: book that was the That was when the five year

1786
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 4: plans started to kick in, which is kind of it's

1787
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:40,200
Speaker 4: just cool because a lot of bands don't do that.

1788
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:46,280
Speaker 2: Okay, you know this is something that is you can't

1789
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:50,080
Speaker 2: see my ear quotes on audio, but Haunted the band

1790
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,679
Speaker 2: for its entire career, that the success in the United

1791
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,920
Speaker 2: States is not as big as the success north of

1792
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:01,560
Speaker 2: the border. Mentioned a couple of time times in the documentary,

1793
01:50:02,439 --> 01:50:06,720
Speaker 2: to what degree are the two of you consciousness? Does

1794
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 2: it bother you? Do you not care? What are your thoughts?

1795
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 3: It doesn't bother me. I think we had a career

1796
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:22,360
Speaker 3: that almost any US band would envy. That was our

1797
01:50:22,360 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 3: career in the States. You know, we're playing playing the

1798
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 3: Beacon Theater and the Fillmore in San Francisco, you know,

1799
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:36,360
Speaker 3: Cobo Hall in Detroit. We were playing solid venues, doing

1800
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 3: great business. And how could the success be the same

1801
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 3: as it was in the States or as it was

1802
01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:52,439
Speaker 3: in Canada. You know, it just the story got magnified that,

1803
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 3: you know, nothing's happening for themselves at the border. And

1804
01:50:56,800 --> 01:51:01,440
Speaker 3: a lot of this is perpetuated by natural Canadian inferiority

1805
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 3: complex that Canadians say, oh, he's really good, this Neil

1806
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 3: Young is good, but you know he had to go

1807
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 3: to the States to make it, or what's he doing

1808
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 3: in America? That everything is you know, the only stamp

1809
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:19,519
Speaker 3: of approval is well, they're doing well in America, And

1810
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:23,840
Speaker 3: that never really mattered to us. Because I don't think

1811
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:26,320
Speaker 3: we thought so much about the border that way. They're

1812
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 3: obvious we took the border very seriously, trust me. But

1813
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:35,680
Speaker 3: it was just people playing to people. And there are

1814
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:38,400
Speaker 3: a lot more people in America, and they're just like

1815
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 3: the people up here, and they're a lot like the

1816
01:51:41,040 --> 01:51:44,360
Speaker 3: people in Europe. People are people, and they respond to

1817
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:47,080
Speaker 3: the same type of things. They want, you know, a

1818
01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 3: lot of them want some kind of authentic expression and

1819
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:53,559
Speaker 3: something they can connect to, and we just focused on

1820
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:59,559
Speaker 3: that that. The rest of it is a story, you know,

1821
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:04,280
Speaker 3: and when journalists after journalist comes to you with this,

1822
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:07,160
Speaker 3: this is a this is the story I'd been told

1823
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:11,040
Speaker 3: to write about the discrepancy between your success in Canada

1824
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:13,720
Speaker 3: and the US. It does get in your head, and

1825
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:19,439
Speaker 3: it does, it does affect you. But I never really

1826
01:52:19,439 --> 01:52:23,040
Speaker 3: took a lot of it too too seriously. I think

1827
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:24,680
Speaker 3: we had a great career in the States.

1828
01:52:25,120 --> 01:52:28,280
Speaker 4: I agree. And as we were growing up as a

1829
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:32,759
Speaker 4: band and things were, uh, you know, we're watching bands

1830
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 4: in the US. There was one band, the Smithereens, and

1831
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,439
Speaker 4: there are guitar band and and I remember you know

1832
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:46,439
Speaker 4: them being on MTV and and uh, and then we

1833
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:49,880
Speaker 4: started playing in the States, and I remember there were

1834
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,799
Speaker 4: a couple of cities that we played that we played

1835
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 4: the same venue, and I was like, you know, you're

1836
01:52:57,240 --> 01:53:01,360
Speaker 4: you're not always getting all the information the correct in about,

1837
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:05,240
Speaker 4: you know, you know, the myth of the hip. We didn't.

1838
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 4: We weren't playing as big places down there, but we

1839
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:13,800
Speaker 4: had a good, healthy following, you know, we had little

1840
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:15,240
Speaker 4: pockets that we were doing well.

1841
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:19,320
Speaker 3: The Blues Traveler guys I remember being they came out

1842
01:53:19,360 --> 01:53:22,160
Speaker 3: with us. They opened a whole whack of shows for

1843
01:53:22,320 --> 01:53:25,360
Speaker 3: US across Canada and in Europe, and we went down

1844
01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:27,360
Speaker 3: to the States and opened some shows for them at

1845
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:31,240
Speaker 3: Red Rocks and run around. It was huge on the

1846
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:35,920
Speaker 3: radio for them, big pop hit. And asked John Popper,

1847
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:39,679
Speaker 3: what's it like, you know, you just had a big

1848
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:44,559
Speaker 3: breakout single and suddenly you're playing to like fifteen twenty

1849
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:48,400
Speaker 3: thousand people. What's it like? And he said, it's really

1850
01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 3: it's really nice. It's a lot like it was before

1851
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:55,200
Speaker 3: this happened. And in three months we'll be playing the

1852
01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:59,599
Speaker 3: five thousand people again. I thought, that's exactly right. He said,

1853
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 3: we were just going to enjoy this well at last,

1854
01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:03,200
Speaker 3: because it's going to go back to the way it was,

1855
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 3: and I thought, yeah, that's really grounded. That's the right response.

1856
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:09,439
Speaker 3: You're doing it for the right reasons. It's not. You're

1857
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:14,559
Speaker 3: not chasing some you know, brass ring that you'd keep

1858
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 3: reaching for and can't hang on to. You're you're doing

1859
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:21,080
Speaker 3: it for the music and the camaraderie and the connection

1860
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:22,160
Speaker 3: and community.

1861
01:54:22,360 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 2: So, okay, how did both of you find out that

1862
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:31,240
Speaker 2: Gourde was ill? Gord Downy And when it was presented

1863
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 2: to you, was it that he was going to die

1864
01:54:34,120 --> 01:54:35,240
Speaker 2: or what he's ill?

1865
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:42,360
Speaker 4: Let's see, I found out well, I found out through

1866
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:47,680
Speaker 4: uh our our management at the time had said that

1867
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:51,000
Speaker 4: he had had a seizure and that he was in

1868
01:54:51,120 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 4: Kingston and they were they were sort of doing a

1869
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:57,400
Speaker 4: biopsy and they was sort of having a having a

1870
01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:00,080
Speaker 4: look at what was going on, and then you know,

1871
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,720
Speaker 4: just to sit tight. And that was the first I'd

1872
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:08,120
Speaker 4: heard of him. And then they they you know, they

1873
01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:11,120
Speaker 4: did some more investigative work and then they operated. So

1874
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 4: that all happened pretty fast, and so I found out

1875
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:20,080
Speaker 4: about it through the management, and then I talked to

1876
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:23,880
Speaker 4: Pat Downey afterwards to get more information. That's how I

1877
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:25,040
Speaker 4: kind of came into it.

1878
01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:31,760
Speaker 3: I'd been with Gord the day before, at day before

1879
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,720
Speaker 3: the big seizure, at a celebration of life for his

1880
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:39,040
Speaker 3: father in Kingston, and we had a lovely day that

1881
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:42,240
Speaker 3: day and lots of hugs, and we had made a

1882
01:55:42,280 --> 01:55:46,520
Speaker 3: plan to go see another artist, Daniel Romano, who was

1883
01:55:46,560 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 3: playing at a club in Kingston that we had played

1884
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:52,320
Speaker 3: at when we were up and coming, the Grad Club.

1885
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:57,080
Speaker 3: And I got a text from Gord at about five

1886
01:55:57,200 --> 01:55:59,840
Speaker 3: thirty or six in the evening saying, not going to

1887
01:55:59,880 --> 01:56:04,320
Speaker 3: be able to make it tonight. I'll explain to you later.

1888
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 3: And I had no idea that he was texting me

1889
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:14,200
Speaker 3: from the hospital where he was being investigated. So and

1890
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:20,240
Speaker 3: at first the initial report was that they thought he

1891
01:56:20,280 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 3: had a tumor or illsion, but that they thought that

1892
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 3: it was probably a good case scenario. And then within

1893
01:56:30,120 --> 01:56:32,440
Speaker 3: you know, forty eight hours, that bubble burst.

1894
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:38,080
Speaker 2: So okay. You know, this is a typical of bands.

1895
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:43,600
Speaker 2: Usually a band member dies way before their time, you know,

1896
01:56:43,640 --> 01:56:46,800
Speaker 2: the twenty seven Club, and we've seen a lot of

1897
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:51,080
Speaker 2: classic acts where you know, they're running out a runway

1898
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 2: to sort of put it. Where's this happened? When you

1899
01:56:54,400 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 2: were vibrant and still healthy young men. Is they say

1900
01:57:01,480 --> 01:57:05,920
Speaker 2: you've gone on about what friends you were, what harmony

1901
01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:11,040
Speaker 2: there was? This happens to gore down. It's an incredible tragedy.

1902
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:16,080
Speaker 2: It really, to the degree it can be accepted, it's

1903
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:23,160
Speaker 2: very singular. However, it does affect everybody else. So what

1904
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 2: point did you think, holy fuck, what about me? And

1905
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:29,600
Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? And when you ultimately did

1906
01:57:29,680 --> 01:57:31,960
Speaker 2: think about that, what were your thoughts?

1907
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 3: Well, you do feel guilty about it. You know, it's

1908
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:43,840
Speaker 3: like you're losing a friend he's got a terminal diagnosis.

1909
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:49,040
Speaker 3: But I was also keenly aware that I was losing

1910
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:52,520
Speaker 3: the dream, that this was the dream that we shared,

1911
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:56,440
Speaker 3: dream that we had and we are living it, and

1912
01:57:56,480 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 3: it was just like, this is our golden goose. We

1913
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:05,520
Speaker 3: loved We all loved being in this band. Even though

1914
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:10,120
Speaker 3: there were tough times and acrimony at times, it was

1915
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:13,600
Speaker 3: a beautiful thing and it treated us very well and

1916
01:58:13,640 --> 01:58:18,120
Speaker 3: we loved it. And suddenly it's like it's winding up.

1917
01:58:19,080 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 3: And I didn't think that it would ever happen like this,

1918
01:58:23,040 --> 01:58:27,640
Speaker 3: And you feel guilty about mourning your own loss when

1919
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:34,480
Speaker 3: you're when it's your friend who's dying. And then like

1920
01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:40,520
Speaker 3: I watched my father and people of his generation, older

1921
01:58:40,560 --> 01:58:45,800
Speaker 3: men who were so entwined with what they did for

1922
01:58:45,880 --> 01:58:49,320
Speaker 3: a living that their sense of self identity was what

1923
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:52,480
Speaker 3: they did, and I said, well, I'll never make that mistake.

1924
01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:58,520
Speaker 3: And of course the band played its final notes and

1925
01:58:58,720 --> 01:59:02,200
Speaker 3: my friend died, and then I was like, what am

1926
01:59:02,200 --> 01:59:07,360
Speaker 3: I now? I'm nothing? The band's gone. I'm not a

1927
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:09,600
Speaker 3: guitar player and a popular band. This has been my

1928
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:13,200
Speaker 3: whole life. What am I? What do I do now?

1929
01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:17,720
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm nothing? Maybe I have to completely reinvent myself

1930
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:22,919
Speaker 3: and start over. And I went through a really difficult

1931
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:24,800
Speaker 3: time trying to come to terms with all of it

1932
01:59:24,840 --> 01:59:28,560
Speaker 3: and trying to figure out where I fit or what

1933
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:30,280
Speaker 3: I was going to do with the rest of my life.

1934
01:59:31,640 --> 01:59:34,520
Speaker 2: So do you think you've come to terms with it?

1935
01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:36,440
Speaker 2: Or is the type of thing you can really never

1936
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:39,800
Speaker 2: come to terms with? In how are you coping in

1937
01:59:39,880 --> 01:59:41,800
Speaker 2: terms of what you're doing marching forward?

1938
01:59:44,840 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 3: I think I have come to terms with it. I

1939
01:59:47,760 --> 01:59:49,840
Speaker 3: you know, in trying to figure out what I was

1940
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:52,760
Speaker 3: going to do, I thought, well, I just need some time.

1941
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,720
Speaker 3: I just need some time to process this. And what

1942
01:59:55,800 --> 01:59:59,120
Speaker 3: I did with that time was I set up my

1943
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:02,320
Speaker 3: prot Uel's rig and I worked for fifteen hours a

1944
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:05,920
Speaker 3: day writing songs and recording, and at the end of it,

1945
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:09,560
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, I write songs and record music

1946
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:12,400
Speaker 3: that probably no one will ever hear. And when I'm

1947
02:00:12,440 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 3: not doing that, I go and do paintings that no

1948
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:19,280
Speaker 3: one will probably ever see. And I'm okay with that.

1949
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 3: That's fine. I get the same a lot of the

1950
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 3: same satisfaction. There's no monetary plus to it, but that

1951
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:34,240
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. The band treated me very well and our

1952
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:38,960
Speaker 3: fans treated us very well. So I'm I think I'm

1953
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:41,200
Speaker 3: contented with it. I think i'm I think I'm in

1954
02:00:41,240 --> 02:00:41,840
Speaker 3: a good place.

1955
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 4: In Johnny, I had a different situation because I had

1956
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:50,120
Speaker 4: I had a family crisis that kind of butted up

1957
02:00:50,120 --> 02:00:56,720
Speaker 4: against Gord getting sick, and so at the end of

1958
02:00:56,720 --> 02:01:02,600
Speaker 4: the tour, I became you know, I knew it was

1959
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:07,000
Speaker 4: going to be finished. I became very reflective of it,

1960
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:12,400
Speaker 4: and I'm reminded of it as the years go by

1961
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:16,120
Speaker 4: by things that happened, things that happened to other bands.

1962
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:20,800
Speaker 4: I was talking the other day that, you know, Gord

1963
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:27,480
Speaker 4: had this horrible thing that happened to him, but he

1964
02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:31,200
Speaker 4: was able to get the other parts of his body

1965
02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:36,040
Speaker 4: and take these infusion drugs and get his brain working

1966
02:01:36,680 --> 02:01:39,320
Speaker 4: to where he was remembering things and he could get

1967
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:44,520
Speaker 4: up on stage. Steven Tyler's voice is gone. It's gone.

1968
02:01:45,240 --> 02:01:49,800
Speaker 4: And that just happens like that. And if we'd had

1969
02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 4: COVID hit when Gord was getting ready to get up

1970
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:59,240
Speaker 4: and get on stage, that that could have killed that tour.

1971
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:03,040
Speaker 4: So I'm very thankful for it because a lot of

1972
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 4: bands don't get to even do it for a couple

1973
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 4: of years, you know, a lot of bands don't get

1974
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 4: to say goodbye. So I became very thankful for it

1975
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:19,800
Speaker 4: for what we had. I uh, you know, it's a

1976
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:23,280
Speaker 4: long time to do it, and then I had to

1977
02:02:23,320 --> 02:02:26,360
Speaker 4: focus on some other things, so my brain was in

1978
02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:29,280
Speaker 4: a different place, and for me it was just kind

1979
02:02:29,320 --> 02:02:35,320
Speaker 4: of I was just, you know, sort of saying how

1980
02:02:35,680 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 4: great it was that we were able to do it,

1981
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 4: and then you know, not long later, you know, Gord

1982
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:46,800
Speaker 4: was gone. And it's also worth mentioning that he when

1983
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:49,600
Speaker 4: it was announced that he was sick, he had to

1984
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 4: think of his family, but he was thinking of us

1985
02:02:52,080 --> 02:02:56,120
Speaker 4: as individuals too. He did that final tour for us

1986
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:58,320
Speaker 4: to to make sure that we were going to be

1987
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:02,080
Speaker 4: financially good, so you know, at the end of his life,

1988
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:06,240
Speaker 4: he's sweeping up and making sure things are good for everyone,

1989
02:03:06,400 --> 02:03:10,320
Speaker 4: his family, his beautiful kids, and his other family. So

1990
02:03:10,600 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 4: that that makes you think, Wow, how lucky we are

1991
02:03:14,720 --> 02:03:16,920
Speaker 4: that we got to say goodbye, How lucky we are

1992
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:19,320
Speaker 4: that we were able to do it for so long.

1993
02:03:20,120 --> 02:03:23,840
Speaker 4: And so I think I was more reflective and then

1994
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:26,840
Speaker 4: had other things to focus on. But we all, as

1995
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 4: Robbie said, his was different than Paul's, different than Court Sinclair's.

1996
02:03:33,240 --> 02:03:35,600
Speaker 3: And we all did it separately, which is so weird

1997
02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:41,000
Speaker 3: after spending thirty five years together, you know, cooped up

1998
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:46,560
Speaker 3: together and going through everything together. When the shit hit

1999
02:03:46,760 --> 02:03:51,360
Speaker 3: really hit the fan, we were all on our own. Yeah, Yeah,

2000
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:54,280
Speaker 3: that was Unfortunately, that was a mistake we made him.

2001
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:57,000
Speaker 3: We made a mistake. We probably should have been in

2002
02:03:57,080 --> 02:04:02,640
Speaker 3: therapy from the beginning, but at some point, you know,

2003
02:04:02,800 --> 02:04:04,120
Speaker 3: we probably needed help.

2004
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:08,440
Speaker 4: But having said that, the movie and the book was

2005
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:12,480
Speaker 4: great therapy to go through because those interviews you didn't

2006
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:15,400
Speaker 4: know what the other guy was saying, the way that

2007
02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:19,120
Speaker 4: Mike broke them up, and that was really interesting, and

2008
02:04:19,160 --> 02:04:23,280
Speaker 4: I don't think everyone was very and I think that

2009
02:04:23,360 --> 02:04:25,240
Speaker 4: was a good thing because Mike did it in such

2010
02:04:25,240 --> 02:04:30,160
Speaker 4: a way that he asked these questions and I didn't think, oh,

2011
02:04:30,200 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 4: I wonder what Robbie's going to answer to this. I

2012
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:35,880
Speaker 4: wanted to answer it and be fully conscious of the

2013
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:40,000
Speaker 4: moment and the question about how I felt about that

2014
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:45,760
Speaker 4: at this moment, having some time and all the stuff

2015
02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:51,160
Speaker 4: that had happened. And I think that that turned into

2016
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:54,080
Speaker 4: a therapy session of its own. And you know the

2017
02:04:54,120 --> 02:04:56,880
Speaker 4: other day when we watched the movie and there was

2018
02:04:56,960 --> 02:05:00,600
Speaker 4: a little parade to go and watch a a band

2019
02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:05,160
Speaker 4: do some hip tunes that Jake had had arranged for

2020
02:05:05,200 --> 02:05:09,640
Speaker 4: It's a beautiful sunny day, and we walked behind these

2021
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 4: people and there were fans there, and I think that

2022
02:05:12,840 --> 02:05:16,280
Speaker 4: was like that was there. It was again, and I

2023
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:19,800
Speaker 4: had my boys there and they heard people singing hip

2024
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:23,640
Speaker 4: songs and that was like seeing it through ten year

2025
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:25,880
Speaker 4: old eyes, and I was just able to relive it

2026
02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:28,640
Speaker 4: and the thing that we set out to do in

2027
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:32,440
Speaker 4: the very beginning and make music and make music with

2028
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:35,839
Speaker 4: each other and commit to each other. There those songs

2029
02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:41,200
Speaker 4: are that people know is for and that's beautiful. That really,

2030
02:05:41,640 --> 02:05:43,520
Speaker 4: to me, it was just such a special day.

2031
02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:50,560
Speaker 2: Okay, Rob, you talked about each grieving separately. Now that

2032
02:05:50,640 --> 02:05:53,200
Speaker 2: the movie has been made in the present day, is

2033
02:05:53,240 --> 02:05:57,720
Speaker 2: there more interaction between the four members or did everybody

2034
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:00,480
Speaker 2: just come together for these projects and everybody living their

2035
02:06:00,520 --> 02:06:01,520
Speaker 2: own separate life.

2036
02:06:01,960 --> 02:06:07,600
Speaker 3: We have zoom calls every second week. Management and Johnny

2037
02:06:07,600 --> 02:06:13,080
Speaker 3: are in Toronto. Paul Langua, Gorge Sinclair and I are

2038
02:06:13,120 --> 02:06:16,240
Speaker 3: all in Kingston, and I get together with Gorg Sinclair

2039
02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:20,160
Speaker 3: on a fairly regular basis, maybe every other week, to

2040
02:06:20,200 --> 02:06:23,000
Speaker 3: do something in person. We get together and listen to

2041
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:28,720
Speaker 3: albums actually, which is really really nice. It's kind of

2042
02:06:28,760 --> 02:06:33,000
Speaker 3: where it all started for me, was hanging out with

2043
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:37,520
Speaker 3: Gorge Sinclair and listening to albums from a very young age.

2044
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:41,720
Speaker 3: So that to be at that stage in my life

2045
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 3: where I'm returning to my childhood and my infancy, it's

2046
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:47,720
Speaker 3: kind of really pleasant.

2047
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:52,560
Speaker 2: Okay. I have to ask the question that everybody asks,

2048
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:59,080
Speaker 2: which is Gord is dead. But we have act after act,

2049
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:01,880
Speaker 2: which is going on the road, moving forward with new

2050
02:07:01,960 --> 02:07:06,040
Speaker 2: lead singers. Used to be this never succeeded. Then we

2051
02:07:06,080 --> 02:07:10,280
Speaker 2: had Sammy Hagar with Van Halen. Now we have a

2052
02:07:10,360 --> 02:07:14,280
Speaker 2: new lead singer for Lincoln Park. I know, you guys

2053
02:07:14,320 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 2: say this is off the table, but is it really

2054
02:07:17,120 --> 02:07:17,839
Speaker 2: off the table.

2055
02:07:19,520 --> 02:07:22,360
Speaker 4: We've always said, you know, never say never. Gord Sinkler

2056
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:24,840
Speaker 4: said that the other day, and I agree with it,

2057
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:29,040
Speaker 4: and it's just, you know, on any given day, you

2058
02:07:29,080 --> 02:07:31,680
Speaker 4: could ask each guy what he thought about it, and

2059
02:07:31,720 --> 02:07:33,840
Speaker 4: I might wake up on a Tuesday and say, you know,

2060
02:07:33,960 --> 02:07:36,560
Speaker 4: it would be really great to go out and play tunes.

2061
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:42,400
Speaker 4: I live in Toronto, so I see, you know, practically

2062
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:48,040
Speaker 4: hip grace too, all these cover bands, and I'm reminded

2063
02:07:48,080 --> 02:07:52,760
Speaker 4: of the fact, and my friends point out that people

2064
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:55,080
Speaker 4: just want to hear those songs, you know, they want

2065
02:07:55,080 --> 02:07:58,520
Speaker 4: to hear your songs. So I think that we would

2066
02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:01,000
Speaker 4: never say never, but it would, but you know, you'd

2067
02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:02,960
Speaker 4: have to get me on a Tuesday, and Robbie on

2068
02:08:03,000 --> 02:08:06,000
Speaker 4: a Thursday, and Paul on a Friday kind of I

2069
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:07,160
Speaker 4: don't I don't know.

2070
02:08:09,120 --> 02:08:09,879
Speaker 2: And Rob.

2071
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:15,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm also in the never say never category, but

2072
02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:19,080
Speaker 3: it would almost have to be something completely different. Like,

2073
02:08:19,200 --> 02:08:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, if Zoe Daschanel wanted to sing for the band,

2074
02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:26,880
Speaker 3: I'd probably say yes. But you know, we did the

2075
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:30,880
Speaker 3: thing with Leslie Feiss and that seemed to work. There'd

2076
02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:33,960
Speaker 3: been a bunch of names thrown out, and it just kept.

2077
02:08:34,560 --> 02:08:38,080
Speaker 3: It didn't feel right, and it kept. All I could

2078
02:08:38,080 --> 02:08:41,880
Speaker 3: think was like, well, you know, Bill, they're all going

2079
02:08:41,960 --> 02:08:45,280
Speaker 3: to get compared to Gord. Everyone's going to compare everyone

2080
02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:48,440
Speaker 3: to Gord. And when Leslie Feis's name came up, it

2081
02:08:48,480 --> 02:08:50,560
Speaker 3: was like, no one's going to compare it to Gordon.

2082
02:08:51,720 --> 02:08:54,880
Speaker 3: It's a different thing entirely, and that's that's fine, But

2083
02:08:55,360 --> 02:08:58,960
Speaker 3: then you're doing a different thing entirely. So I don't know.

2084
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,720
Speaker 3: I got to say, it took me a long time

2085
02:09:04,720 --> 02:09:09,040
Speaker 3: to get to a point where I'm okay that the

2086
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,160
Speaker 3: dream ended. It was a pretty great dream. I had

2087
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:15,160
Speaker 3: a really good time, and I loved being up on

2088
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:17,280
Speaker 3: stage and I loved being on the road with my

2089
02:09:17,320 --> 02:09:20,360
Speaker 3: best friends on Earth, you know, brothers from other mothers,

2090
02:09:21,680 --> 02:09:24,520
Speaker 3: and I did it for a long long time. I

2091
02:09:24,640 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 3: currently don't really have a drive to be on stage.

2092
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:34,400
Speaker 3: I play guitar every day. I'm driven by that. But yeah,

2093
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:37,960
Speaker 3: I just and you know, you brought mentioned some examples.

2094
02:09:38,400 --> 02:09:43,400
Speaker 3: I personally think that after David Lee roth Aim should

2095
02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:47,879
Speaker 3: have stopped. And you know, you don't replace Robert Plant

2096
02:09:47,880 --> 02:09:53,600
Speaker 3: and led Zeppelin or you know, I you know, I

2097
02:09:53,640 --> 02:09:56,840
Speaker 3: think that who should have stopped when Keith Moon was gone? Personally,

2098
02:09:56,960 --> 02:10:00,160
Speaker 3: that's how I feel, So I.

2099
02:10:00,080 --> 02:10:01,760
Speaker 4: Thought that who should have stopped when they said they

2100
02:10:01,760 --> 02:10:03,360
Speaker 4: were going to stop in Toronto?

2101
02:10:05,000 --> 02:10:05,600
Speaker 3: Which time?

2102
02:10:05,760 --> 02:10:06,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Which time?

2103
02:10:07,360 --> 02:10:11,080
Speaker 2: In any event, gentlemen, you're not the typical rock stars,

2104
02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:15,160
Speaker 2: very aerudite and articulate, and I want to thank you

2105
02:10:15,240 --> 02:10:18,720
Speaker 2: so much for speaking with my audience. Certainly watch the

2106
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:22,320
Speaker 2: documentary on Prime. It's included in Prime. You'll hear all

2107
02:10:22,440 --> 02:10:24,960
Speaker 2: this and much more, the nitty gritty of the band

2108
02:10:25,200 --> 02:10:28,440
Speaker 2: in depth and at length, and of course the book

2109
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:33,000
Speaker 2: will give you even more So Johnny, Rob, thanks so

2110
02:10:33,120 --> 02:10:34,880
Speaker 2: much for taking the time to speak with me.

2111
02:10:35,240 --> 02:10:36,280
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Bob.

2112
02:10:36,720 --> 02:10:41,040
Speaker 4: It was a pleasure, Bob, great chatting with you, and

2113
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:42,960
Speaker 4: thank you so.

2114
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:43,760
Speaker 3: Much for doing us.

2115
02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:47,400
Speaker 2: Until next time. This is Bob left Sex