1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Guess what mango was that? Well, today we're doing a 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: show on cheese crimes. I've been excited for this one, 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: So I've got a question for you to kick things off. 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: So what's the first thing that comes to mind when 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: I say cheese crime? Because there's so many things that 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: could come to mind. What comes to mind for you? 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I know there was gonna be a pop quiz. Yeah, 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: I guess someone committing a crime with cheese, like maybe 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: blusheoning someone with like a huge wheel of parmesan and 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: then eating that parmesan. So there's a murder weapon. 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 2: Oh, that would be like the perfect crime. 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe just using cheese whiz in the sandwich, 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: which is kind of a cheese crime. 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: I feel like, out, I look the way you just 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: quickly planned to murder around a wheel of cheese, and 18 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: then you dissed the giant part of Philadelphia culture. This 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: is all in the first minute of the show. But 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: the thing is, cheese is reportedly the most shoplift did 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: food in the world. Plus it's the target of all 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: sorts of craziness from stealing and grifting, to tyst and 23 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: even smuggling. 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: So this whole episode is kind of just a bad 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: setup for a nacho cheese joke. 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: That's the whole reason. That's why I'm excited for this. 27 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: All right, let's dive in. Welcome back to part time Genius. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: I'm Will and as always, I'm here with my good 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 2: friend Mango, and somewhere behind that big booth is our 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: pal Dylan, who has a giant can of easy cheese 31 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: and a plate full of crackers that actually Mango, I 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: think he's preparing for us. 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: The guy's just so generous. I love that he made 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: us a snack. I guess he didn't want us to 35 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: be angry. 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: Now. 37 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: But speaking of cheese crimes, I know this is a 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: little off topic, but can you retell that story about 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: that time you stopped at a gas station and was so. 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: I didn't think we were going to go there, but 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: uh yeah, So. I was in a hurry to a 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: meeting one day, and for whatever reason, it had been 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: an ongoing joke about grabbing a hot dog from a 44 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: gas station with a group of friends. I truly was 45 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 2: in a rush, was filling up with gas, and I 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: was like, you know what I'm going to do it. 47 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to get a gas station hot dog because 48 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: I was angry, and so I grabbed one. I go 49 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: out to the car, finished, you know, filling up the tank. 50 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: I take a bite of This is going to sound 51 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: a bit like terrible. I took a bite of the 52 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: hot dog and suddenly I feel something like hot, like 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: squirt the back of my throat, which I hate to 54 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: even say those words. And I looked and the hot 55 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: dog had been cheese injected. And I had heard of 56 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: these before, and I know that they exist. I have 57 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: no interest in them, but I also just I want 58 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: to heads up when my hot dog is going to 59 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: have cheese in it. And I didn't know, and so, 60 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: needless to say, I did not finish the hot dog. 61 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: It is the last time I've had a gas station 62 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: hot dog. So yeah, that's the story. 63 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: It's a good warning to all our listeners to check 64 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: out the label on the hot. 65 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: You always find out whether it's cheese injected. Yeah, so 66 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: let's get started. I know the reason we chose this 67 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: episode is that we both heard that shoplifting fact about cheese, 68 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: like that's the most shoplifted food and. 69 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: I'd also heard about this parmesan mafia, so I was 70 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: curious what the real story was there. But why don't 71 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: we start with just a quick list of how expensive 72 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: cheese can be. So here's a quick top three of 73 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: expensive cheeses I found on a site called Chef's Pencil. 74 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: So number one is Pool, which is a donkey cheese. 75 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: Talked about this before, but just to get a sense 76 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: of how expensive it is. For comparison, grocery store cheddars 77 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: can go for about six dollars a pound, Mozzarella might 78 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: go for like eight dollars a pound, but pool goes 79 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: for six hundred dollars. 80 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 81 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: And the reason is it's mostly made of donkey milk. Right, 82 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: It's sixty percent donkey milk forty percent goat milk, So 83 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: donkeys are doing the heavy lifting there. And apparently, unlike goats, 84 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: donkeys are stingy milk givers, like you have to milk 85 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: them three times a day. They only give milk six 86 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: months of the year, so production is really tricky. Plus 87 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: there's only one farm that makes pool, and it's in 88 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: the donkey reserve in Serbia, right right. You know, for 89 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: whatever reason, I have not seen this six hundred dollars 90 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: pound cheese in the Pickley Wiggly in Alabama. 91 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: But my question is is it any good? 92 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I love that you're asking me like 93 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: I have like caviar and pool breath this tacos in morning. 94 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: But so if you do a quick internet search, it's 95 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: supposedly nutty and earthy, and it tastes like manchigo. It 96 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like that special. But I actually read this 97 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,559 Speaker 1: review from this cheese blogger, Missed cheesemonger who's a cheese 98 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: connoisseur from San Francisco, and it immediately made me want 99 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: to try some. So this is what she says. Quote. 100 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: Once I took a bite, I understood what made this 101 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: cheese special. There were so many layers a flavor, from 102 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: demi cell butter at the foundation to the middle flavors 103 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: of sweet grasses to the extremely heady floral notes that 104 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: lingered in a ridiculously long finish. This was no ordinary 105 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: fresh cheese. It was aromatic to the extreme. I might 106 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: as well have been inhaling the scent of milk on 107 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: a Serbian hillside. Texture Wise, it is not so unusual. Oh, 108 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: but that lingering, longing aftertaste, it was like nothing I 109 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: had ever tasted. 110 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: I actually just ordered some on Amazon while you were 111 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: talking about it. It sounded so appealing. 112 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: So she points out there are only about one hundred 113 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: jennies or female donkeys that can produce the milk for 114 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: the special cheese, and the fresh cheese is often best 115 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: eaten the day it's made, which I'm sure also drives 116 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: up that price. 117 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: And actually that's the cheese that Djokovic was supposedly trying 118 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: to corner the market on. 119 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and you know I heard so much about that. 120 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: It was basically this drummed up story that the producers 121 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: at the farm and a poorly sourced Daily Mail article 122 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: made up. But Djokovic apparently has no interest in a 123 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: monopoly on donkey cheese. 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: Okay, mainly tennis y okay, got it's all right? So 125 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: that's number one. What's number two on your list? 126 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Moose cheese, okay, which feels like it could use better 127 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: branding than just moose cheese. But it goes for five 128 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a pound, and again. 129 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: For steel compared with some donkey cheese's. 130 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: Pretty laborious because you're trying to milk a twelve hundred 131 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: pound moose. Here. It's made from a place called the 132 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: Elkhouse in Sweden, and according to Chef's pencil, all the 133 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: moose cheese comes from three moose named Goulan, Juna, and Helga. 134 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: Okay, Helga's cheese is my favorite, obviously, yeah, of course, 135 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: of course, wow that is that's fascinating. I do want 136 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 2: to try both of those. And I feel like all 137 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 2: these cheeses are expensive because they're not goat or cow cheeses. 138 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: So I'm I'm predicting number three is going to be 139 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: elephant cheese. 140 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: Am I right? Well, no elephant cheese on my list. 141 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: But I do feel like the next few cheeses that 142 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: are listed across the internet as the most expensive cheeses 143 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: are kind of frauds. Like there's Stilt and Gold, which 144 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: is flecked with this edible gold leaf, which I don't 145 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: feel like it should count because it's almost like saying, like, 146 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: I mean you the world's most expensive burger, and I 147 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: put truffles under a big matt something right, Like, it's 148 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: not really expensive on its own. But I'm going to 149 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: say number three is Wyke Farm Cheddar. It's supposedly this 150 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: incredibly tasty cheddar. It sells for two hundred dollars a pound, 151 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: and the family that makes it has kept the recipe 152 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: of secret since eighteen sixty one. 153 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So at two hundred dollars a pound, 154 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: if you're stealing one of these giant wheels of cheddar, 155 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: you could make a lot of money off of that. 156 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: But doesn't it feel like stealing one of these super 157 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: expensive cheeses is almost like stealing a Picasso off the 158 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: wall of a museum, Like it's worth a lot more. 159 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: But also someone is going to be looking for you. 160 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's some cheese detectives out there who specialize 161 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: in cheese thefts, which is pretty amazing. 162 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: I love that as a job. All Right, I do 163 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: want to hear about that, But before we do, let's 164 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: talk about cheese's origins. So just a quick primer on this. 165 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: While we don't know the first instance of humans making cheese, 166 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: we do know that cheesemaking is related to the domestication 167 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: of milk producing animals. No surprise there, now, that goes 168 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: back about eight to ten thousand years ago. You can 169 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: also find cheesemaking in Greek mythology, which is pretty interesting 170 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: to see. And there's evidence of cheese and cheesemaking that's 171 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: been found on Egyptian two murals. These date back probably 172 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: four thousands incredible. Yeah, it's a long time ago. But 173 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: the truth is cheese was probably discovered accidentally. 174 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: So I actually remember that bit because we did a 175 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: show about craft singles and we talked about how cheese, penicillin, 176 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: and the slinky were like the greatest accidental. 177 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: Distoperes easy, easy, top three, all equally important. But there 178 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: are a few different theories of how we got cheese. 179 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: It could have been the practice of storing milk and 180 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: containers made from stomachs of animals. We've talked about that 181 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: a little bit which naturally contained this enzyme called rennet, 182 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: and that would cause the milk to coagulate. It separates 183 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: into curds and whey. Now, another possibility is the practice 184 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: of salting curdled milk for preservation, or the addition of 185 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: fruit juices to milk, which would result in the curdling 186 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: of the milk. 187 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: It's kind of like how my kids accidentally make cheese 188 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: when they leave a carton of milk in the back 189 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: of the fridge. Tea long, but I can't imagine eating 190 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: that now. 191 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: It's not the type of thing Dylan I think would 192 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: serve on a ritz cracker. I don't see it on 193 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: the plate back there. But if you dump some salt 194 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: on that glop, you basically have early cheese. The Roman 195 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: Empire produced and traded hundreds of varieties of cheese, so 196 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: it was certainly an industry back then, and trade with 197 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: Europe could explain how the cheese got to Asia. But 198 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: there could have been parallel thinking at work here too, 199 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: the Tibetans, the Mongolians, They've also got this long history 200 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: of producing cheeses. And of course, cheese has been produced 201 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: in America since the early seventeenth century, when the English 202 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: Puritans brought their knowledge of dairy farming and cheesemaking from 203 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: the Old World over to the colonies. 204 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: Right and now Americans are so obsessed with cheese that 205 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: we feel comfortable wearing like giant cheese hats on our 206 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: heads to sports games. 207 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: I love those cheeseheats. I've alway thought about getting one. 208 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: I never have. But interestingly, Wisconsin didn't start out in 209 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: the cheese business really this date was actually a leading 210 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: wheat supplier before the Civil War, but as crop eels 211 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: started to fail, Wisconsin farmers knew they needed to pivot 212 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: to something, and they pivoted to dairy. Now. At the 213 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 2: same time, settlers from New England and Ohio and New 214 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: York and other places in that region they started moving west, 215 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 2: as did the Europeans. So all of these folks start 216 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: bringing this interest in cheese and knowledge of cheese production 217 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: to the area. So the result is today that Wisconsin 218 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: produces more than a quarter of all domestic cheese in 219 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: the US. 220 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: I had no idea about that. 221 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, cheese is of course a huge business, part of 222 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: why we're talking about it here. But the US cheese 223 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: retail market is growing and it's slated to reach twenty 224 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: seven point eight billion dollars by twenty twenty eight. 225 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: Wow. 226 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: The retail cheese sales in the UK are expected to 227 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: reach five point two billion euros by twenty twenty eight. 228 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: So obviously a huge amounts of money, and it makes sense. 229 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: That's why cheese crime is a thing. 230 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as commodities that are worth stealing, 231 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: cheese is ripe. But yeah, you like what I did there, 232 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: But think about it compared to the other dairy products. 233 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: It's durable, and it's easy to transport. It doesn't melt 234 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: like ice cream or spill or leak or spoil as 235 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: fast as milk. And it's ubiquitous like it's in cuisines 236 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: around the world. People everywhere love cheese, which makes it 237 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: easier to sell. Plus, unlike guns or drugs, cheese is 238 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: mostly legal, which is a good segue into some cheese jackings. 239 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: This was a big thing in Italy back in two 240 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: thousand and six. Apparently gangs would lie in wait at 241 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: service stations on the Milan Bologna Motorway and as soon 242 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 2: as a truck driver would stop for coffee, they'd ambush them. Yeah, 243 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: it kind of makes driving a cheese truck seem pretty dangerous. 244 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. And in one instance, a driver was threatened by 245 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: four armed men and then tied up while his van 246 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: carrying three hundred wheels of cheese was driven away. The 247 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: cheese wheels were then taken to this industrial estate. They 248 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: were cut up and sold in stores, and this happened 249 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: for quite a while with different bands of criminals. In 250 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, a group of criminals were arrested in modern 251 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: Enough for stealing roughly nine hundred thousand dollars worth of 252 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: parmesan cheese. Yeah, and according to the Italian news site 253 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: Al Soul twenty four, the criminals were so savvy that 254 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: they stole over twenty thirty nine wheels of parmesan reggiano 255 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: cheese over the course of roughly two years. 256 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: It feels so weird that there's basically this like Ocean's 257 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 2: eleven of cheese and I don't know, there's something fascinating 258 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: about it, but in general, it must be so hard 259 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 2: to catch a cheese thief because it's not like you 260 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: can track these like using GPS or anything like that. 261 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So producers and the Italian farmers union, which is 262 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: called Clodaretti, are experimenting with microchips and they're hidden in 263 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: the crusts of the cheese, which means they are actually 264 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: more identifiable. They also have markings burnt on the crust 265 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: so that you can help police track the stolen cheese. 266 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: But it's still a huge problem. A survey by Coldoretti 267 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: found that parmesan is the most shoplifted item in Italy. 268 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's a little different than here where it's 269 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: mostly like I would guess, batteries and deodorant or something 270 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: like that. 271 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, we might need that deodorant because 272 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: we're also hard at work stealing cheese. It's not just Italy. 273 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, seventy thousand pounds of cheese were stolen 274 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: from a cheese store in Germantown, Wisconsin and later recovered 275 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. Apparently the thieves i'mdoing was trying to sell 276 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: the cheese on the cheap, like they tried to hawk 277 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: their contraband cheese for just a dollar a pound. And 278 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: as you well know, no self respecting Wisconsin retailer would 279 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: expect to pay so total, and nor would they buy 280 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: the cheese without knowing its prominence. But you know, these 281 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: thefts they make the Wisconsin cheese community really really upset. 282 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: There's this guy, Tyson Wormheister, the co owner of Mars 283 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: Cheese Castle, and he said, a cheese like that not 284 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: available for use. 285 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: It saddens me. I feel like I need to know 286 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 2: what Mars Cheese Castle is. 287 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: It's a castle shaped restaurant specializing in cheese. 288 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds abye right. Well, I know we want 289 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 2: to talk more about cheese crimes, and of course those 290 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 2: cheese detectives that you teased earlier. But let's take a 291 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: quick break first. Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where 292 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: we're talking cheese crimes. So there are obviously lots of 293 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: these cheese stuff stories. There's this one from twenty thirteen 294 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: where a guy showed up to a manufacturer in Wisconsin, 295 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: forged a bunch of paperwork, then drove away with two 296 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars worth of monster. There's a story from 297 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: France in twenty fifteen where thieves broke into a dairy 298 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: and stole one hundred wheels of specialty Conte cheese. They 299 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: boosted four tons, four tons of cheese. And there's another 300 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: of these high stories from a seller in France where 301 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: seven hundred blocks of delicious Saint Nectar cheese were stolen. 302 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: It's amazing, I mean, just how much cheese these bandits 303 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: are taking off with. It's not a little bit of cheese. 304 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's insane, which brings us to cheese detectives. This 305 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: is great piece on the Today's Show site about this officer. 306 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: His name's Inspector Georgia Cappovanni. 307 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: Which sounds right for a cheese detective. 308 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: And this is from two thousand and eight, so it's 309 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: a little dated, but the agency actually still exists. But 310 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: this is what the article says about him. Quote in 311 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: the wild West of gastronomical ripoffs, men like Cappovanni are 312 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: a kind of sheriff. They're sworn judicial officers who can 313 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: demand admission to premises, examine documentation, and confiscate products at wholesalers, 314 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: warehouses or supermarket aisles. And according to the article, they 315 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: can even tote weapons if they want. It talks about 316 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: how Cappavanni and his men race around Europe protecting Italy's 317 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: very special products like matrella from buffala is one hams 318 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: from Parma or whatever. They'll go into what the article 319 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: describes as cathedrals of ham these shops where the meat 320 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: is just air drying and warehouses, and they'll poke the 321 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: hem with this special needle made from the shin bone 322 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: of a horse and that apparently releases these extraordinary aromas. 323 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: Then the inspector, who I guess is also a gormand 324 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: will sniff the needle to make sure it has that 325 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: special Parma proscudo scent. Apparently they see something like a 326 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: thousand Parma ham knockoffs in one of these raids. 327 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: And then how do they catch these folks. 328 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: Apparently one of these ham counterfeiters had like twenty aliases 329 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and the Spanish police have been chasing them around for decades. 330 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: But Capavani and his team have this whole network of 331 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: salespeople who double as informants, and so they tip off 332 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: the investigators whenever they sent something fishy. There are people 333 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: out there doing much more interesting stuff. 334 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: Than we are, legal and illegal. But are they now 335 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: doing this for cheese as well? 336 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and more than stopping the heist, this team is 337 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: basically set up to chase ripoffs, right, Like the producers 338 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: know that if people start thinking parmeham is a less 339 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: quality ham and it's less sweet, then they'll start thinking like, 340 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: what's the difference between that and some of those sort 341 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: of like grocery knockoffs or whatever. Right, And it's the 342 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: same for cheese. So there's this scene of Capavanni running 343 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: his hand across a rind and pointing out why this 344 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: branding on a food is clearly counterfeit. Apparently there's a 345 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: whole system of branding machines that the authenticated manufacturers use 346 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: that makes slightly imperfect marks to thwart counterfeiters, and the 347 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: machines are really closely monitored. They're switched out every three months, 348 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: which you know feels insane, But Cappavanni takes pride and 349 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: sniffing out the fakes, and in fact, he claims to 350 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: have a museum of hundreds of fraudulent parmesans. 351 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, there's this whole world of fakes out there. 352 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: This is one of the things that kept coming up 353 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: as we were preparing for this episode. And you know, 354 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: the old saying I think is something like if your 355 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: cheese is fishy, it might be sawdust. I don't think. 356 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: I don't think I know that familiar with that one. 357 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: I think mamma had it cross stitched on a pillow point. 358 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: But back in twenty sixteen, Time revealed a jaw dropping 359 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: report on manufacturers like Castle Cheese not to be confused 360 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 2: with the Mars cheese Castle that you talked about before, 361 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: which produced quote parmesan that contains significant amounts of wood 362 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: pulp as a filler. 363 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: It's like a cheese made for termites. 364 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: Yes, it's gross. And some experts believe about a fifth 365 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: of the parmesan cheese bought at grocery stores is actually mislabeled, 366 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: and representatives for the Emman Taylor cheesemakers, which we usually 367 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: refer to as Swiss cheese, say that around ten percent 368 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: of the Swiss cheese of the market is fake. It's 369 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: true for all kinds of cheese Manchego, Camembert, but parmesan 370 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: is hit particularly hard. Sales of Parmigano regiano cheese are 371 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: about two point four to four billion, according to Food 372 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: and Wine, but fake parmesan takes an almost equal wedge 373 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: of the wheel, with about two point oh eight billion 374 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: dollars every single year. I didn't realize the size of 375 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: the market. Yeah. Well, weirdly, cheese has been stuffed with 376 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: more sinister substances than just sawdust. And twenty twenty three 377 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 2: customs officials encountered a pickup truck transporting four large wheels 378 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: of cheese from Mexico into Texas, and they had hunch 379 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 2: that something was off. 380 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: Here, which doesn't sound strange at all. I always load 381 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: up my truck with the giant cheese wheels. 382 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, actually an X ray scan of 383 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 2: these cheese revealed quote anomalies there which upon further inspection, 384 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: turned out to be seventeen point eight pounds of cocaine. 385 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: So that feels like that's an anomaly. You know this? Yes, yeah, 386 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: now this is fair. I have never I don't think 387 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: I've eaten cheese with a bunch of cocaine. But it's 388 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: a good idea hiding stuff in cheese. Like if you 389 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: wanted to propose, and you put a diamond ring and 390 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: you know, deep in a wheel of cheese, there your 391 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 2: you know your potential fiance would never go digging around 392 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: in there. It's a great place to hide stuff. 393 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: Speaking of soft cheeses, do you know that Switzerland used 394 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: to have a cartel that was responsible for the popular 395 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: already a fun due. 396 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 2: Wait did you say a cartel? I mean it was 397 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: more of a union, all right, So why did you 398 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 2: say cartel? I'm curious. 399 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: I'm a Brooklyn dad, I need some excitement, and I 400 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: guess more than a few articles online referred to it 401 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: as a cartel because of the way they fixed prices 402 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: and manipulated the market. Anyway, it was called the Association 403 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: of Swiss Cheese Export Firms, better known as the Schweizer 404 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: kas Union okay, or Swiss Cheese Union. This was an 405 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: organized monopoly designed to use cheese export revenue to offset 406 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: and milk production costs because of World War One, and 407 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: the SCU fixed prices and production limits, and most importantly, 408 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: they restricted what types of cheese could be made in 409 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: the country. So actually Switzerland used to make over one 410 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: thousand different varietals and they reduced it to just seven 411 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: or eight, and they favored Swiss cheese, you know, or 412 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: what we know is Swiss cheese. It was super effective. 413 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty nine, a Wisconsin newspaper reported that consumption 414 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: of Swiss cheese had increased in the US because of 415 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: a three hundred thousand dollars ad campaign run by the 416 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: Swiss Cheese Union, which it also copyrighted the cheese in 417 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: the US, calling it Switzerland Cheese. 418 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 2: And so that's why when we say Swiss cheese, we 419 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: mean Emma Taylor. 420 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was just the beginning. In the fifties 421 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: and sixties, the SEU ramped up their promotions and they 422 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: sent a young woman named Elizabeth Koenigsdorf to the US 423 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: as the ambassad Dress of Switzerland Cheese. 424 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 2: It's a great title. 425 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: She was beautiful, multi lingual, and expert skier, just kind 426 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: of like the perfect cliche of like a Swiss woman. 427 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: And she would travel the us, giving these cooking lessons 428 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: for dishes like kiche, lorraine and fondue, and also teaching 429 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: Americans things like you're not supposed to freeze your cheese, 430 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: which was apparently a thing we used to do regularly. Anyway, 431 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: the SEU went really hard on fondue in the seventies, 432 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: mainly because it's easy to make and it requires a 433 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: lot of cheese. So they really sort of like flooded 434 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: the interesting and making fond and they ran these global 435 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: ad campaigns featuring these beautiful Swiss people in ski sweaters, 436 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: making it seem kind of healthy, healthy. 437 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: It does sound like they're marketing and almost like a 438 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 2: sports drink in a way. You know. 439 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like everyone should sub out your Gatorade 440 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: for a thermos of swisses. 441 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 2: Really appetizing manga. 442 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: But the SEU was everywhere. From nineteen ninety two to 443 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, they were the main sponsor of the 444 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: Swiss national ski team. So the team's actually wore these 445 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: yellow suits with cheesehole motifs. I mean, I just want 446 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: to show you this picture that is amazing. 447 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: They look like the cheese, I know, and. 448 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: They actually had holes in their suit, which caused drag, 449 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: which is kind of annoying to a skier. 450 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, I mean, I feel like you're representing 451 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 2: your country in this huge athletic excellence performance and you've 452 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: trained your whole life to wear the uniform and the 453 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: cheese suit. It feels a little bit demeaning to me. 454 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. Anyway. By the nineteen nineties, 455 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: the Swiss Center meant towards the SEU had changed. It 456 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: was seen less as a protector of this like national industry, 457 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: and more's a system of power abuse. Corruption scandals didn't 458 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: help either. In nineteen ninety six, a former SCU executive 459 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: was arrested for skimming at least three hundred and fifty 460 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: thousand Swiss francs and a cheese export price scam, and 461 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine the SEU was dissolved the Swiss 462 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: Museum rights quote. During the eighties and nineties, the Cheese 463 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: Union came to be regarded principally as a cautionary tale 464 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: of abuse of power in fondue. 465 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: The abuse of fondue. That's great, all right, but I 466 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: feel like we should get back to your boring Brooklyn 467 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: dad thing. 468 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I said boring. 469 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know when you were talking about cartels, and 470 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: there have been these links between the cheese industry and 471 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: the mafia. There's this story about al Capone, who owned 472 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: this string of dairy farms near Fondu Lac, Wisconsin, forcing 473 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: New York pizzerias to use this very like rubbery mob cheese. 474 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 2: And as the story goes, the only places permitted to 475 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: use good mozzarella where the old fashioned pizza parlers, you know, 476 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: places like Lombardes, Patsy's, John's, which could continue doing so 477 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: only if they promised to never serve slices. So, according 478 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 2: to the author Jonathan Quitney in his book Vicious Circles 479 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: the Mafia in the Marketplace, this is why John's Pizzeria 480 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 2: on Bleeker Street still has the warning no slices on 481 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: its awning today. Apparently, neighborhood pizzerias that serve slices and 482 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 2: refuse to use Capone's cheese would be firebombed. But according 483 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: to historian Scott Wiener that we both know from Scott's 484 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: pizza tours, the story is probably not true. It doesn't 485 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: really make any sense. He says. The reason that most 486 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 2: of these places don't sell slices, is that they use 487 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: these coal fired ovens which would just burn any slice 488 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: that you were trying to reheat. 489 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: I love Scott so much. I remember the first time 490 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: I met him and I heard he was pizza obsessed. 491 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: His opening line was, so, what do you like about pizza? 492 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 493 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like the cross the cheese, and then 494 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: you just like went on to, you know, give me 495 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: this fascinating history of pizza. But I just assumed there's 496 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: no slices. Places were trying to sell you more pizza. 497 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they are. But the no slices might 498 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 2: be a little bit of mafia lore, but the mob 499 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: shaking down people over mozzarella is on the record. So 500 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: Joseph Banano, a mafia godfather, partially owned Grande this cheese 501 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: company based in Fondula, Wisconsin. That's where components handful of 502 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: dairy farms were two. So this March nineteen eighty report 503 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: from the Pennsylvania Crime Commission states that Banano quote initiated 504 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: a conspiracy to control the specialty cheese business in the 505 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 2: United States in the early nineteen forties, and that he 506 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: and his associates controlled the activities of the largest and 507 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: most prosperous specialty cheese companies. 508 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: I love that they came out with that report in 509 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. 510 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, said I wanted to go ahead and take 511 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: care of it. Yeah. 512 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: So we've got the mobs this potential to make a 513 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: lot of money and they're putting a toll hold in 514 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the industry, which is, you know, pretty standard for the Mob. 515 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: But I also kind of love the idea of al 516 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: Capone having his own dairy farm and just like sweet right, 517 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: I know, just like nuzzling every cow's nose before he 518 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: puts them in the barn at night. 519 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird image. But since we're on the mob, 520 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: the Italian mafia, or more specifically, the Camora is also 521 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: pretty mixed up with buffalo mozzarella, which is made in Campania. Now, 522 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: in the early aughts, the Camora controlled Italy's biggest buffalo 523 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 2: mozzarella maker, the Magara Group. Now, obviously, mozzarella is hugely 524 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: popular as a cheese, which meant buffalo milk was basically 525 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: liquid gold for the most part, and that's what attracted 526 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: the interest of the Camara. So the Kamora started charging 527 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: this protection money sure, and in early two thousand and 528 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: one during one weekend, two well known cheese houses just 529 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 2: went up in flames, Lapurla and Barlotdi, which helped them 530 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 2: make their case to the manufacturers. Of course, taking care 531 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: of barns full of buffalo comes with its own problems, 532 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 2: like apparently buffalo are very susceptible to infectious bacterial outbreaks 533 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: like bruce iliosis, and controlling these farms suspected of bruceiliosis 534 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: isn't easy and it requires you know, herd depopulation from 535 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: time to time, and obviously that's not great for mozzarella production. 536 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: So often state veterinarians would show up to inspect the 537 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 2: farm and instead of getting to do their work, they'd 538 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: be met by the members of the kamora at gunpoint. 539 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: Like sometimes the mobsters would within the herd by hiding 540 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of buffalo. 541 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: So state officials are there, they're inspecting the farm. Meanwhile, 542 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: it's like one guy's job to hide a bunch of 543 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: sick buffalo. 544 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, buffalo are huge, though, it's like 545 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 2: trying to hide a pack of land rovers, you know, 546 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: just starting to imagine this. But if that didn't work, 547 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: they would just force sanitary officials to sign the certificate 548 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: of good health despite the fact that the herd is 549 00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: clearly infected. 550 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, seems like an easier plan. B Yeah. 551 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Kumora's involvement in Buffalo Mozzarella has actually 552 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: threatened the ecosystem of the entire region. They got involved 553 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: with waste management back in the nineteen eighties, and according 554 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: to a mafia treasurer who testified about this in nineteen 555 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: ninety seven, the Kumora had been illegally dumping and burning 556 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: millions of tons of toxic waste in Campania, leading to 557 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: reports of cancer clusters and other health issues. 558 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: That's awful. So obviously cheese can be involved in crime, 559 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: but there's no such thing as illegal cheese, right. 560 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Danish feta is actually illegal. According to 561 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: the EU, feta was awarded the appellation of being a 562 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: designated Greek product, but Denmark was producing it and exporting 563 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: it to non EU territories, and so in twenty nineteen, 564 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: the European Commission took Denmark to the European Court of Justice. 565 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: And of course there are really gross cheeses, like you know, 566 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: Kasu marzu, so that's illegal too. 567 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Sardinian cheese with maggots that jump out at you, 568 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: which is pretty disgusting. 569 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: I'd say that that counts as disgusting. And there's a 570 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: hairy cheese fermented in the stomach of a baby goat 571 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: and left out in the open air. It's this delicacy, 572 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 2: also from Sardinia called Soukalu, and people are apparently selling 573 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: it from their cars. I guess that's what I read. 574 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: It's according to this piece and the outline, but it's interesting. 575 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: The outline rights that these illegal cheeses aren't just a 576 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: matter of unusual taste. There are also low stakes political 577 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: statements of people telling the EU or whoever they can, 578 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 2: that they can't dictate values on them. 579 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't want any of 580 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: that maggot cheese in my mouth, but I also support 581 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: Sardinia's right to protect their culture. 582 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: It's good for you to take a stand, Mago. I'm 583 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: usually it'll make political statements, but that's a pretty big one. 584 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: And here's the mystery cheese you can definitely support. It's 585 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: amazing how much cheese comes up in crime novels, right, seriously, Yeah, 586 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many crime novels with cheese puns. 587 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: In the title. There's just a few examples here up 588 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 2: to no gouda to bree or not to bree final 589 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: fondue that sounds dramatic, clabbered by camon Bear. I told 590 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: you there's so many of these. Shudder off deal, No, no, 591 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: these are I swear, I am not making these up. 592 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: These are all real titles of books that you can 593 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: probably buy at the airport, I would guess. 594 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, I know you've got a flight to catch, 595 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: but how about we do a quick fact off before 596 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: you fly out. 597 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: Let's do it all right, here's a quick one. Did 598 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: you know cheese can get you high? 599 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely shotgun to pizza before, so I 600 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: think it tracks. 601 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair well. According to a twenty fifteen study 602 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: at Mount Sinai, there's a chemical in cheese called casin, 603 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 2: and when you digested, it can trigger your brain's opioid receptors, 604 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: which may be why we loved going out for late 605 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: night cheese dip in college so much. 606 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, we did. Do you know that eatam cheese never 607 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: goes back, It just hardens, which is why it was 608 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: often taken to sea. And I hadn't realized that it 609 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: actually explains one of my favorite facts that eating cheese 610 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: was used by a navy ship in Uruguay when it 611 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: ran out of cannonballs, and it actually won to battle 612 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: that way, which makes more sense why they had so 613 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: much old cheese on board. 614 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: Now, okay, all right, well here's a fun one from Katkey. 615 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: Did you know that in French pie charts are actually 616 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: called les Camembert after the cheese or sometimes and I'm 617 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: going to need Jess who's helping today pronounce this one. 618 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: But is un diagram in fromage that is so far 619 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: away from what it works. Okay, we're going to go 620 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 2: with it, which is her way of saying it was 621 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: so off that we're just going to have to ignore 622 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: it a cheese diagram. So meanwhile, in Brazil, pie charts 623 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 2: are known as pizza charts. 624 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: Which makes sense. Brazil is supposedly one of the places 625 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: that has the best pizza in the world. Speaking of pizza, 626 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: you remember stuff cruss pizza from Pizza Hut do I yeah, 627 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: we'll ask. 628 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: For it sometimes and these commercials where they encouraged you 629 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: to eat the pizza the wrong way crust first. 630 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: And weirdly, Donald Trump was the spokesperson okay, but Pizza 631 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: had developed that in nineteen ninety five and sales of 632 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: it were insane, apparently over three hundred million dollars of 633 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: sales in the first year. And this is from an 634 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: article in mash dot com. But the crazier thing is 635 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: that foods that are stuffed with cheese, like the stuff 636 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: pressed pizza or Taco Bell's casalupa, are guided by an 637 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: organization called Dairy Management INK, and Bloomberg actually refers to 638 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: them as the Illuminati of Cheese. 639 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 2: Wow. 640 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is from a Bloomberg article. For the 641 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: past eight years, the group has been the hidden hand 642 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: guiding most of fast foods dairy hits, including and especially 643 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: the caesalupa. In twenty twelve, it embedded food scientists Lisam 644 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: and Clintalk with the Taco Bell product development team to 645 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: develop a cheese filling that would stretch like taffy when heated. 646 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: Then they figured out how to mass produce it and 647 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: helped invent some proprietary machinery along the way. So apparently 648 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 1: the group has a two hundred million dollar budget from 649 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: cheese manufacturers to create cheese centric products to slip more 650 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: cheese into our food isn't that incredible? 651 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: That is wild you You really saved the best for 652 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: last and this whole thing. I don't think I can 653 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: top an illuminati of cheese, especially in a cheese crime episode. 654 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: So with that, I'm going to give you today's fact 655 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: Off Trophy. 656 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: Fun and I'm going to dedicate this to my colleague 657 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: Kate's dog, who I am certain is listening, always listens 658 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: to our show. His name is Cheesy or Cheese for short. 659 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 2: I like that. I'm sure he'll appreciate that. All right, Well, 660 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: that's it for this week's Part Time Genius. Thanks everybody 661 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: for listening. 662 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 663 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongaytiguler 664 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode 665 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with 666 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced for 667 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social media 668 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: support from Sasha Gay, trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. 669 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio 670 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.