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Speaker 1: Cody. It's part two of this latest journey into the

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Speaker 1: world of Jordan Peterson. But first let's talk about that

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Speaker 1: Mighty Mighty Boss released in twenty twenty two about the

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Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd and then the protests that followed.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you were not aware of this. I

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Speaker 1: had no I had no idea. Um, it is stunning,

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Speaker 1: it is I mean, just the fact that it exists

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Speaker 1: is just so beautiful and funny. Yeah, the fact that

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Speaker 1: I think we can say the Mighty Mighty Boss Tones

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Speaker 1: are the whitest band has ever been without being explicitly

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Speaker 1: a neo Nazi band, Like it can't it can't be

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Speaker 1: whiter than the Mighty They're like they're a goose step

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Speaker 1: and a shuffle away from Yeah, not that they're Nazis,

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Speaker 1: but but but that it does not get more Caucasian,

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Speaker 1: and it's I would say, if that is your if

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Speaker 1: you are the Mighty Mighty boss Tones watching the murder

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Speaker 1: of this man and the protests that gripped the nation,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the thing you should say is nothing like maybe

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Speaker 1: you know obviously like well we'll make a statement that

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Speaker 1: like we support the protests or this was terrible, but

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Speaker 1: you certainly shouldn't write an entire album about George Floyd.

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Speaker 1: That's just not a thing the world needs from the

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Speaker 1: Mighty Mighty Bostons just or even you know, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know an album um that, if you like looked really hard,

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Speaker 1: you'd be like, is this about George Floyd May? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Maybe if you're like you're doing a song, you know,

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Speaker 1: on your sky album about how the police are bad,

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Speaker 1: you could reference that. That would be fine. So it

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Speaker 1: has a long history of being anti authoritarian, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, like if you know and then process some

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Speaker 1: proceeds to charity or something like that some cause. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but this is wild. Um. I listened to Uh. Also,

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Speaker 1: the song is called the Killing of Georgie, UM, which

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Speaker 1: I would say is not a great title. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: so weird. I listened to part three. I haven't I

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Speaker 1: can't find part one or two anywhere and I'm not

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Speaker 1: buying that album. Um. Even some of these lyrics George

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Speaker 1: Georgie please stay they took your breath away? Yeah? What

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Speaker 1: the That is an insane thing to write? That? Is that? That?

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Speaker 1: Because because again the Mighty Mighty bost Tones a lot

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Speaker 1: of musicians to band a bunch of people were in

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Speaker 1: a room when they handed those lyrics out, and all

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Speaker 1: of them had to be like, Yes, this is a

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Speaker 1: song we're all going to take part in. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: make it. They made it. They made that into a

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Speaker 1: music and they just let it happen to the world

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Speaker 1: and no one stopped them. And one assumes they did

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Speaker 1: that twelve times to get a whole album out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah is you know, well, so let's let's play a

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Speaker 1: clip from this song for the listeners at home. Give

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Speaker 1: the thirty seconds a tight thirty Yeah. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: say that the actual song just sounds like that one song.

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Speaker 1: They all mighty mighty Bosstone songs sound the same. They

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Speaker 1: don't have the ability to make multiple SKA sounds that

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Speaker 1: sound different. They're not real big fish. It even has

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Speaker 1: that scream that the guy does in that other song.

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Speaker 1: By the way, real big fish. You know how many

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Speaker 1: albums they wrote about George Floyd, Not a single one,

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Speaker 1: because real big Fish understands that's not what American needs.

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Speaker 1: They don't need real big Fish weighing in on this.

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Speaker 1: You know, God speed Real but Fish. Uh accredit to them.

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Speaker 1: But also I would probably answer none to any band

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Speaker 1: that you asked me about. Very There are very few

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Speaker 1: musicians whose specific take on this I need in the

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Speaker 1: form of an album, right you know, Five Iron Frenzy

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Speaker 1: Wonderful Ska band made a lot of statements about how

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Speaker 1: the police are Tara in social media. They didn't cut

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Speaker 1: an album an album about it because they knew. They knew,

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Speaker 1: we don't need that. Nobody needs that. At least at

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Speaker 1: least one of them knew. Maybe some of them were

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Speaker 1: on board and had the idea, but one of them

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Speaker 1: was like, you got to hit the chorus. You gotta

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Speaker 1: get it there, there we go, skip ahead, or no,

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Speaker 1: a little bit, give us some chorus. Yeah we can,

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Speaker 1: Here we go, there we go laughing. That's really Let

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Speaker 1: the bird go forth this time from this place. These

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Speaker 1: three okay, awful anymore. I listened to it back like

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Speaker 1: in twenties whenever it came out, and was like, this

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Speaker 1: is the worst thing I've ever heard. Um, it's it

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Speaker 1: is so it is the most cringe worthy thing. Like

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Speaker 1: I it's it's one of the worst things I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: It's people so bad. Um even like not like I

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Speaker 1: have listened to Cody, I have listened to an entire

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Speaker 1: discography of Blink one eight two covers turned into Nazi anthems.

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Speaker 1: Dozens of Johnson's I have like seventy of them on

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Speaker 1: my fucking hard drive, dozens of them, and it was bad,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't make me cringe like this just like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like every even if you ignore the fact that this

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Speaker 1: about George Floyd and they call him Georgie the entire time,

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Speaker 1: but did anyone call him Georgie? Was ever his fint

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Speaker 1: a nickname for a murder victim, and then make an

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Speaker 1: album about it? Also if like if you're doing like

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Speaker 1: if you need two syllables because like melodically you need

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Speaker 1: that's syllable. George Floyd is his name. Yeah, that's too

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Speaker 1: You got too right there, um, But maybe they wanted

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Speaker 1: it to be a little more you know, discreet, little

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Speaker 1: under the radar, like, oh, it's not definitely about George

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Speaker 1: Floyd when it clearly it is. But even if you

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Speaker 1: if you remove it from that, from the context of

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Speaker 1: what it's about, like it's so awkward, like we do

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Speaker 1: you hold do we hold these truths to be self evident?

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Speaker 1: It's like a child's song. It's like it's just his

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Speaker 1: schoolhouse rock like Cadence, which like, I'm sorry for insulting

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Speaker 1: schoolhouse Rock right now, I didn't mean schoolhouse rock. Those

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Speaker 1: songs generally worked. Many of them are stuck in my

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Speaker 1: head periodically self evident like this, I'm I'm going to

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Speaker 1: pour back teen in my ears to try to get

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Speaker 1: this out of my brain once we finish the course.

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Speaker 1: So if you play it back listeners, the course is

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Speaker 1: literally just I've never had to knock on wood. It's

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Speaker 1: just that it's that's the only song they the exact

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Speaker 1: same tune um god by variations because of the uh

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Speaker 1: syllables and lyrics, the beautiful lyricism that they've introduced. Yes,

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Speaker 1: be the perfect art that is god. I can't this

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Speaker 1: is it's it's absolutely stunning, um that that this would

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Speaker 1: happen and that no one would stop it. Like morally,

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Speaker 1: if you, if you, if you are ever around and

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Speaker 1: your friends have a ska band and they attempt to

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Speaker 1: make an album about the murder of a black man

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Speaker 1: by the police, it is your moral responsibility to mace

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Speaker 1: them until they stop you. You have an ethical duty.

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Speaker 1: Or it's just like if you failed to do that,

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Speaker 1: it's the same as like watching someone get to death

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Speaker 1: in the street and refuse him to intervene anyway, Cody,

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes. This is Behind the Bastards, a show

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Speaker 1: about the mighty mighty Bosstones, History's greatest monsters. Do you

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Speaker 1: think Jordan Peterson has ever been able to enjoy a

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Speaker 1: ska song? Could you imagine him skanking? I can, um,

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Speaker 1: because I've seen him cry about a bluegrass band he

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Speaker 1: saw in Tennessee. Then I saw a video of him

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Speaker 1: dancing to it, um and it's actually it was good

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Speaker 1: like there was. They were a good band and like

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Speaker 1: a blue blue grass country ska yeah country, um like,

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Speaker 1: I got no issue with that kind of music. It

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Speaker 1: was a good band. They did a good job. But

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Speaker 1: I think that any like any music I think moves him,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, fine, the most human thing exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think I think he would scank it. I

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Speaker 1: think he would scank it. I think he could really.

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Speaker 1: I think he could really get down to you know,

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Speaker 1: that real big fish song beer. What if you rewrote

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Speaker 1: it to be about having a single sip of cider

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Speaker 1: and then not not sleeping for thirty days and then

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Speaker 1: saying you didn't sleep, Like, let's be clear, Well, this

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Speaker 1: has been nine minutes of Cody and Robert talking about

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Speaker 1: there are solid eleven people in our audience who were

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Speaker 1: waiting for this for years, and those eleven people having

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Speaker 1: the best day of their lives. Everyone else has deleted

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Speaker 1: us from their phones. You're welcome to those people, sorry

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Speaker 1: to everybody. Yeah, so, Cody, when we last left off

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Speaker 1: with Jordan Peterson in this episode, Jordy George, he was

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Speaker 1: talking about how women are incapable of looking at relationships

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Speaker 1: in anything other than like a cold, transactional way. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: the next thing Peterson does in this episode is stick

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Speaker 1: his brains dick into the problem of mass shootings. Did

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Speaker 1: you like that sent It's Cody go about how I

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Speaker 1: wrote that sentence. I don't hate it. Did it take

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Speaker 1: your breath away? Oh? God, here's Jordan's. I think Warren

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Speaker 1: Ferrell wrote a book called The Boy Crisis. Told me

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Speaker 1: yesterday when I was talking to them, every single high

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Speaker 1: school shooter was fatherless. I mean, you know, that's a

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Speaker 1: small sample of people, but uh huh, society seems to be,

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Speaker 1: let's say, degenerating into a more and more woke direction.

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Speaker 1: Oh so, Cody, I'm not going to look up as

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Speaker 1: buddy Warren like I did his other friend, because the

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Speaker 1: claim that he's made there that mass shooters are always

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Speaker 1: fatherless is complete horseshit, And it's the easiest thing in

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Speaker 1: the world to dek he was gonna look at like,

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Speaker 1: and this is a thing that if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: a listener of this show, and you're like, I actually

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Speaker 1: like Jordan Peterson, I don't know what you're doing here,

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Speaker 1: but thanks for coming. Um. Anything he ever says, just

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Speaker 1: be like what it's always what sounds of the time,

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Speaker 1: it's at least a little wrong. Um, and this is

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Speaker 1: a lot wrong. Uh. Snopes has covered this, which makes

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Speaker 1: it very easy to debunk. There is a year's long

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Speaker 1: right wing media claim that mass shootings are committed by

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Speaker 1: fatherless children. This is to demonize single mothers. It's just

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Speaker 1: to demonize the fact that like the breakdown of the

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Speaker 1: family and not I don't know the fact that like, look,

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Speaker 1: i'm a I'm as pro gun as they get. But

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Speaker 1: it's the fact that any angry young person can purchase

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Speaker 1: whatever a gun do they want, even if they have

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Speaker 1: a history of domestic violence, with sixty percent of them

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Speaker 1: do if you want to look at the thing that

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Speaker 1: actually most mass shooters have in common. Most of them

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Speaker 1: have a history of violence towards women. That doesn't stop

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Speaker 1: them from acquiring a firearm anyway. Yes, and police, Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: who killed twice as many people as mass shooters in

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Speaker 1: the United States. We should also know anyway, the point

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Speaker 1: of origin of this, like right wing sort of thing

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Speaker 1: that like this is the problem is single mothers and

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Speaker 1: not anything to do with guns or patriarchal violence or whatever.

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Speaker 1: The point of origin for this is an article in

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Speaker 1: The Federalist in two thousand fifteen, which was later picked

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Speaker 1: up to act as evidence for a Fox News column.

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Speaker 1: It did not claim. This Federalist article does not claim,

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Speaker 1: as Peterson does that every mass shooter is fatherless. Quote.

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Speaker 1: On CNN's list of the twenty seven deadliest mass shootings

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Speaker 1: in US history, seven of those shootings were committed by

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Speaker 1: young under thirty male Since two thousand five, of the seven,

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Speaker 1: only one Virginia Tech shooters young Hope who So I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna try to pronounce the Virginia Tech shooter who

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Speaker 1: had been mentally unstable since childhood, was raised by his

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Speaker 1: biological father throughout childhood. Now, this is also extremely out

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Speaker 1: of date and wrong quote. For the purposes of this article,

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Speaker 1: we researched contemporaneous news reports to see if any of

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Speaker 1: the shooters originally listed in CNNs twenty seven deadliest mass

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Speaker 1: shootings in US history grew up in households without a father.

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Speaker 1: We found with a father. We found that several of

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Speaker 1: them did. The Virginia Tech shooter, who killed thirty two

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Speaker 1: people in Virginia Tech into thus and seven, was raised

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Speaker 1: by both the father and a mother. So was George Hennard,

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Speaker 1: who killed twenty three people in Colleen, Texas in nineteen one.

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Speaker 1: Charles Whitman, who killed seventeen people at the University of

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Speaker 1: Texas at Austin in nineteen sixties, six, Nadal Malikasan, who

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Speaker 1: fatally shot thirteen people in four hood in two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: Jaffery Wong who killed thirteen and two thousand nine in Binghamton,

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Speaker 1: New York. And Aaron Alexis, who fatally shot twelve people

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Speaker 1: at the Washington Navy Yard in two thousand and thirteen.

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Speaker 1: James Huberty, who killed twenty one people at McDonald's in

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Speaker 1: the Sandy Cedro neighborhood of San Diego, California, was made

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Speaker 1: by a single father. And later a father and a

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Speaker 1: stepmother after his biological mother, a band of the family.

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Speaker 1: So again these are not And by the way, this

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Speaker 1: is not a comprehensive list of all of the mass

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Speaker 1: shooters parents. Many of them have. It is complete horseship

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Speaker 1: to say that they do not have, Like mass shooters

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Speaker 1: aren't tend to be fatherless, that's nonsense. Yes, so Jordan's

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Speaker 1: doesn't have an editor for content here. Again, he's just

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Speaker 1: kind of talking in a nice room. So he starts

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Speaker 1: off on a rant next about how woke universities are

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Speaker 1: and and he winds up repeating at length his arguments

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Speaker 1: from episode one about not saying anything you don't a

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Speaker 1: percent believe, and again because there's no editor here and

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Speaker 1: no one can tell him, hey, Jordan, you win over

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Speaker 1: all this already. Um, And so for the next couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes he's just kind of describing things people do

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Speaker 1: without explaining anything of meaning. It's it's like weirdly pointless.

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Speaker 1: And here's an example. Everybody gets rejected at the time.

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Speaker 1: You only have to succeed once and then maybe you're

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Speaker 1: not good at interviews, and and maybe you try hard

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Speaker 1: and you don't find another job and not sucks because

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Speaker 1: he actually tried hard and you failed. And so often

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Speaker 1: people pull their punches so that if they failed, they

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Speaker 1: can always say, well, I didn't really try that hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just like okay. He does a very stream of consciousness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very strecer consciousness. But also it's like, yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's like he's got it sucks when you

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Speaker 1: don't get a job that you interview for. Absolutely Jordan's

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Speaker 1: he doesn't. That's why I think part of why is

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Speaker 1: so effective and uh connective for some people, um and

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Speaker 1: why a lot of his critics will often be like,

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Speaker 1: but he's a good at this and good at this

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Speaker 1: because he'll say like really basic almost but now like

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Speaker 1: like therapist stuff. Yea, like this idea of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes people pull their punches so that like when they fail,

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Speaker 1: they can say like, oh, I don't really try very hard,

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Speaker 1: so it's fine, that's the thing people do. He's absolutely correct,

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Speaker 1: but like what I do that often exactly, but like okay,

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Speaker 1: and so you can go on like this, Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: episode is a mix of like these things. He's just

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Speaker 1: kind of like laying out things that happen in the

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Speaker 1: world and then he's mixing it in with these like

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Speaker 1: factual statements that are always wrong that he half remembers

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Speaker 1: from friends of his, all of who are right ring

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Speaker 1: propagandists like set in articles they work for, wrote for

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Speaker 1: Quilette or Heritage or whatever. And as the episode goes on,

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Speaker 1: he makes repeated reference to his private clinical practice as

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Speaker 1: a therapist, talking about how he laborously helped people rebuild

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Speaker 1: their lives or fixing tractable mental health problems. And this

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Speaker 1: is where things get really messed up. Lots of people

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Speaker 1: would come into my office and they're terrified to be there.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want to be there. It took them like

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Speaker 1: two years to get up the courage to go to

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Speaker 1: a therapist. And so part of my job was to

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Speaker 1: make them as comfortable as I possibly could instantly. And

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Speaker 1: a huge part of that was paying attention to them

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Speaker 1: and not to me. And you can get really good

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Speaker 1: at that. Sorry, brave, brave, do you be about them

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Speaker 1: and not you? Jordan? What are you talking about? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nobody goes to a therapist to learn about the therapist.

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Speaker 1: I just want to get a therapist to pay a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bucks a session so I can get

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Speaker 1: to know. Ah, dude, we're gonna get into what he's

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Speaker 1: talking about, Cody, But first, you know, what is the

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Speaker 1: only real kind of therapy spending money? Yeah? Well it is.

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Speaker 1: It is in fact, Scott, Look, you go to a

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Speaker 1: fucking street Light Manifesto concert and tell me that you

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Speaker 1: didn't just have a religious experience. I will, I dare

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Speaker 1: you to, Cody, They're accepted. Uh, okay, so we're back.

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson has just talked about how you he became

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Speaker 1: friends and get gets all of his patients to trust him,

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Speaker 1: right about how like that's a real struggle as a

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Speaker 1: therapist getting these people to trust them, about how good

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Speaker 1: he is at it um And the fact that he's

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Speaker 1: talking about like how important was to gain the trust

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Speaker 1: of these troubled people who came to him looking for

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Speaker 1: mental health advice. Um, that made me want to look up,

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Speaker 1: like what happened with his actual patients because he's no

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Speaker 1: longer in clinical practice And I kind of thought maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a story there, And boy, howdy I came across, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I came across an article in the magazine Canada Land

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Speaker 1: about the end of Jordan Peterson's clinical practice. Now this

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Speaker 1: occurred as he became a media figure, and he went

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Speaker 1: from obscure academic to wealthy celebrity. And one of the

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Speaker 1: first things Jordan did when this happened is abandoned the

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Speaker 1: patients that he had built a rapport with. Quote shortly

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Speaker 1: before Peterson decided he couldn't both be a media personnality

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Speaker 1: and a practicing psychologist at the same time. He canceled

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Speaker 1: sessions with patients, later claiming illness while maintaining an appointment

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Speaker 1: to appear on television. He responded to messages from patients

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Speaker 1: with auto reply emails, which brought up the challenges of

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Speaker 1: his burgeoning fame, directing recipients to send argumentative emails to

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Speaker 1: his ideological opponents. He employed his wife to sort through

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Speaker 1: emails from patients without first asking for their consent. He

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Speaker 1: shared potentially identifying information about patients with other patients. That's

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Speaker 1: really bad, that's horrible, that's deeply unethical and kind of evil,

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Speaker 1: not just yeah, that's really evil and selfish and cruel,

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Speaker 1: um deeply like potentially potentially something that could even have

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Speaker 1: a body count. Because being a therapist is a thing,

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Speaker 1: Like a number of people who are attending therapy are

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Speaker 1: doing it because suicide is a thing they consider regularly.

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Speaker 1: And if they let you in and trust you and

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Speaker 1: then you like both abandoned them because you get famous

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Speaker 1: and also tell them, hey, send the emails harassing people

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Speaker 1: I don't like, Like yeah, so okay, yeah, okay, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're trusting this person and they cancel and then you

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Speaker 1: see them on TV. That's fucked up? What like, could

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Speaker 1: you repeat the part about the emails to his opponents,

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Speaker 1: like this long list of just like direct recipients to

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Speaker 1: send argumentative emails to his ideological opponents. So wait, so

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Speaker 1: you emailed his patients to Yeah, yeah, this was I

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Speaker 1: think this is the thing. And let me let me

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Speaker 1: pull up the art. It's been a while since I

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Speaker 1: read it. Let me pull up the article again and

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Speaker 1: find that's just so many for you. What the funk

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Speaker 1: is wrong with this guy? Well, I think we know

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with sucking narcissists who wanted money. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is like, that's all I wish I had found this

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Speaker 1: article when you and I were doing the Peterson episodes

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Speaker 1: that we did, because this is legitimately like the worst

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Speaker 1: thing I've heard about him. That's all you need to

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Speaker 1: know about him, Like, yeah, that's oh my god. All right. Well,

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Speaker 1: so basically this article, a lot of it focuses on

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Speaker 1: one of his patients, Samantha, who like he cancels an

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Speaker 1: appointment with her saying that he's sick, and then he

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Speaker 1: shows up on TV the next night. This is like,

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Speaker 1: right when all that stuff breaks with that Canadian like

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Speaker 1: change to hate laws and stuff. Um quote. When Samantha

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Speaker 1: responded to an email that offered new dates to meet,

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Speaker 1: she received what appeared to be an auto reply aimed

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Speaker 1: at his growing number of supporters, attempting to mobilize a

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Speaker 1: letter writing campaign, and his battle against political correctness at

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Speaker 1: the university. Hi, thank you for writing. At the moment,

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Speaker 1: I am unable to keep up with my email correspondents,

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Speaker 1: although I will try at some point in the future

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Speaker 1: to respond personally. If you are emailing me about current

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Speaker 1: PC related issues, you should consider sending your comments to

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Speaker 1: the following individuals. Remember that the only way that any

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Speaker 1: of this can be straightened out is through carefully articulated

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Speaker 1: in reasonable arguments. I would say that the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of letters I have received have been exactly that, and

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Speaker 1: it's just what has needed. Assume rationality and the part

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Speaker 1: of the recipients and make a careful case we want

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Speaker 1: to play in the court of reason. C see a

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Speaker 1: copy to me if you wish. And then the message

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Speaker 1: gave email addresses for like seven University of Toronto officials

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Speaker 1: who had gone after him for his refusal to refer

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Speaker 1: to pay students by their preferred gender pronounce. So that's

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Speaker 1: what's happening, is this woman, he builds a rapport with her,

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Speaker 1: she's like comes to rely on him for her mental

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Speaker 1: health care, and then he like ghosts her and all

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Speaker 1: she gets his auto replies telling her to harass people

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Speaker 1: at the university on his behalf. That's that's literally what

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Speaker 1: happens there, which is profoundly abusive. Is that's the most

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Speaker 1: disgusting thing I've ever heard about Jordan Peterson. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: that is in the top three, at least, there's a

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Speaker 1: long list. I have to sort through it. But that's

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Speaker 1: like really fucked up, that's really deeply fun up to.

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Speaker 1: It just speaks so much to who he is and

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Speaker 1: what he's all about. Yeah, And there's a number of

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Speaker 1: ethics complaints they get filed against Peterson by patients who

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Speaker 1: found themselves discarded by him in his rush to capitalize

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Speaker 1: on fame. Um. Obviously he doesn't talk about any of

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Speaker 1: this on the show, right, he just talks about how

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Speaker 1: good he is it building a rapport with people and

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Speaker 1: getting them to trust him and um talking about himself

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Speaker 1: or whatever and not talking about himself focusing on them. God,

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Speaker 1: what a fucking creep. What a piece of ship. So

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Speaker 1: he spent several minutes talking about his friends in school

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Speaker 1: who were all again this is now He's gone back

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Speaker 1: to like talking about his own childhood, about people he

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Speaker 1: used to know as a kid, and all of his

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Speaker 1: friends were super like or while all of his friends

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Speaker 1: in like high school were like super tough, cool kids

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Speaker 1: who worked on oil rigs. Uh. He starts talk telling

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Speaker 1: the story about how one of his friends got into

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Speaker 1: a fight with their swimming coach and they were both cool,

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Speaker 1: like super cool, and then Jordan forgets to tell us

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Speaker 1: the end of the story and talks about how Jocko

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Speaker 1: Willink is cool too, what he's just like he's just

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Speaker 1: like talking about his cool friends and oil rigs and

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Speaker 1: how they got into a fight with the coach and

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Speaker 1: they're so manly. Knew who else is manly is the

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Speaker 1: Navy's seal with a podcast Jocko Willink, who again, I'm

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Speaker 1: not I have no particular opinions on Jocko. I'm not

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Speaker 1: attacking him. Jordan Peterson just goes into a rant about

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Speaker 1: how cool he is because he's like Jordan's friends who

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Speaker 1: got into fights with their swimming coach. For the record,

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Speaker 1: I don't think Jacko will Link ever got into a

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Speaker 1: fight with a swimming coach that I would. I would

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Speaker 1: believe you. Here, here's the clip. You're gonna want to

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Speaker 1: do it on your own terms. And our school systems

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Speaker 1: very bad at facilitating that. In fact, it does everything.

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Speaker 1: It was even designed at the beginning to not facilitate that,

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Speaker 1: because our school system was based on the Prussian military model,

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Speaker 1: and the Prussians, who also trained the Japanese to establish

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Speaker 1: their school systems by the way, they wanted to produce

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Speaker 1: obedient factory workers. And so first off, this is what

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Speaker 1: after he's randomly talking about how his friends were super

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Speaker 1: cool oil rig workers who got into fist fights with

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Speaker 1: their coach, this is what leads to him talking about

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Speaker 1: like modern education and how broken it is, like the

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00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: idea that it was better back when kids would just

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Speaker 1: work in oil rigs and get into fist fights with coaches,

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Speaker 1: and now it's they're all Prussian school modeled in terrible

428
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: and like everybody's being trained to be obedient drones. Wait

429
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: the second he likes that though, well, no he doesn't,

430
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: because that's that's a great point, Cody, But he doesn't. Now,

431
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: So what's important is that he's made another falsifiable statement here,

432
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: right that Japan based their schooling on the Prussian model. Now,

433
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: the Prussian but like we're taught by them, like trained

434
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: by them to do the Prussian model is a thing.

435
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: Japan did not base their schooling system on Prussian learning alone,

436
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: nor did the Prussians just like teach them how to

437
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: do schooling. From eighteen seventy three to eighteen ninety, Japan

438
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: reformed their educational system, and they didn't do it just

439
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: like by bringing in people to teach them how to

440
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: do it. They didn't base their their new education system

441
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: on any one nation's methods, and what they did was

442
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: the very reasonable thing. They adopted a number of different

443
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: methods from several countries and then tested a bunch of

444
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: them out at the same time so they could learn

445
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: through trial and error what seemed to work best. They

446
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: did in fact study and test aspects of the Prussian system.

447
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: They also tested and studied aspects of the American and

448
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: French education systems. Um almost like they didn't just want

449
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: to create robotic drones, but we're really just like trying

450
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: to solve the difficult problem of what works for an

451
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: educational system. Prussia the late eighteen hundreds very successful countries.

452
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: So is the United States, and so is France, and

453
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: so they're kind of like being like, well, these three

454
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: countries are succeeding in ways we want to succeed. Let

455
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: us test aspects of their educational systems to see what

456
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: works for us, Which is not what Peterson said, because

457
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: he's wrong about everything. He said the Prussians trained them

458
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: how to do the school, which was based on he does.

459
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: It is interesting. Yeah, He's like it's so managing because

460
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: like clearly he re a lot. He's a reader. He

461
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: reads a lot, and he half remembers, like most of

462
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: us do, bits and pieces of what I read. He

463
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: like he like kind of absorbs a little bit or

464
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: like these things that that he like moves around so

465
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: that they align with whatever he is thinking at the time,

466
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: and like just says like, as fact, this thing is like,

467
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: well ten percent of that was right, Like, you're right,

468
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: the Japanese did test out aspects of the Prussian education system. Um,

469
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: but you're missing what actually happened in Japan in that period, Right,

470
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: there's like okay, subject and object or right, the verbs

471
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: are all wrong. Yeah. I think the thing that is

472
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: kind of worth highlighting here is the denial of agency

473
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: of Japanese people. Like the way he frames it, the

474
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: Prussians came in and taught them how to build an

475
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: education system that would train their children into like little robots,

476
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: and that that's what happened as opposed to the Empire

477
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: of Japan exercise and considerable agency going out and testing

478
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: different methods to right and reform their system in a

479
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: way that would allow them to achieve their goals, which

480
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: is what happened, right, Yeah, because Japan is famously a

481
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: country that exercises quite a bit of agency. But like yeah,

482
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: and like they did the thing that he would support,

483
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: like you test this, you test this, you test this,

484
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: and you can find the best result. And like is

485
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: he trying to make a connection to what he was

486
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: talking about earlier with like Japanese men, Yeah, I think so.

487
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: I think he is, like, that's yeah, even though like

488
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: there are you might argue a significant thing that happens

489
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: about sixty years after Japan reforms this educational system that

490
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: leads to kind of some social breaks that might be

491
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: more relevant for looking at things that are happening to

492
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: young Japanese men in two. Not that his not that

493
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: what he said earlier about Japanese men two was accurate either, right, yeah, is,

494
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: but I don't know, Joan. I think something happened in

495
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: the mid forties that might have caused a break in

496
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: the way Japanese society handled stuff like education, I mean

497
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: anything that's entire Yeah, okay, okay, Dr Peterson. So anyway,

498
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: he's just this doesn't have a huge thing to do

499
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: with his other clips. It's just like he's always wrong. Anyway.

500
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: Here's another clip. Don't sell yourself short and don't let

501
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the people who demand slavish obedience, you know, that puppy

502
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: dog style of living. Don't let them short circuit your

503
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: future because you know you're not inclined towards that kind

504
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: of obedience. That's actually a virtue, not a vice, even

505
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: though it's punished in well, certainly in schools, especially by

506
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: edible female teachers, although there's no shortage of men who

507
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: are participating in that is. Yeah, my man, like the

508
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: like coolest split screen thing, this cool that it's just

509
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: yea so great visually. Um that he was gonna say

510
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: some fun shit. I love whenever because you have these

511
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: moments where like there's this little slip he loses a

512
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: little bit of composure and it's like, ah, you hate women, right,

513
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: Like that's yeah, you're really deeply angry at women. Um yeah,

514
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: that's I mean the couple were like, yeah, like all

515
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: the stuff he's been saying like this that like dating

516
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: above their status and like the fatherless it's like single

517
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: mothers and mass shooters like all this stuff. It's like, man,

518
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: you're just so deeply angry at the concept of women. Um,

519
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool, I think. But also but also like

520
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: it's only what he's talking about too is just like

521
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, obedience is like you know, don't because it's

522
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: a slave to blah blah blah. It is like, but

523
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: you would disagree with that if it was about something

524
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: you agree with, you would be like, well, no, you

525
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: like you you follow orders, you like you do this,

526
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: you do this, you find your place, and you like

527
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: you follow the steps in your hierarchy to do X

528
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: and y. Um. It's just so just his it's like

529
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: context ideology dependent, and it's just fun to see him

530
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: pretend that he doesn't he doesn't think that way. Yeah.

531
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 1: You know what else is fun to pretend? Cody, Uh,

532
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: some edible mother. It's fun to pretend that we could

533
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: ever live in a world without the products and services

534
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: that support this podcast. But of course we couldn't. There

535
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: is no life without these products and services. Existence itself

536
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: is meaningless without whatever comes up next. As soon as

537
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: my stopped talking, Ah, we're back, and I hope that

538
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: your lives have been filled with meaning. Um, the only

539
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: meaning you will ever experience. Family means nothing, Your own

540
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: children mean nothing. Love is but a vapor in the air.

541
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: But the products and services that support this podcast our

542
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: God in a very real way. Cody. Yeah, yeah, that's good.

543
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: No disagreement. M cool. So the very next thing that

544
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: happens in the Jordan Peterson TV Show is this very

545
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: this really weirdly sharp cut, followed by the title text

546
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: Can men be controllable monsters? Yeah? It's a question, and

547
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: only psychopaths ask themselves. Um, so you gotta accept the

548
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: monster's aspects of you and be a monster in order

549
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: to be uh whatever, he'll say it. It's fine exactly.

550
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: He talks about young in Nietzsche a lot, and it's honestly,

551
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: it's not very interesting. There's a long kind of rambling

552
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: rant here, but I want to play where it leads

553
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: him to. This is him kind of like reaching his conclusions.

554
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: You might have fantasies of revenge, sometimes very violent. If

555
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: you're extremely sexually deprived, or maybe not even that extremely,

556
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: you'll have sexual fantasy. And if you're revengeful and look

557
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: up bro and feeling oppressed, and then you might have

558
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: violent sexual fantasies. That's a part of you. So let's

559
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: say that's the shadow. I just want to point out

560
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: that he only looked into the camera and when he

561
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: was like violence, sexual fantasies. Yeah, God, it's it's all

562
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: like this. And there's a cut coming up in which

563
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: the screen splits in three, focusing on focusing on Jordan's hands,

564
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: then a close shot of his face, and then the

565
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: wide shot of him sitting in a chair. Nothing interesting

566
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: happens during this. He does not make any points. There

567
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: is no like big conclusion he builds too. I just

568
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: the editing decisions in this video text on screen, just

569
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: then scroll back. Why don't we just play that segment.

570
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: Let's let's give it. Oh it's a head yeah okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

571
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: it's yeah. Yeah. The text is women want a tamable beast.

572
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. So his train

573
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: of thought, as that might key you went on, leads

574
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: him to another Disney movie, thank God, And here's him

575
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: talking about that story of Beauty and the Beast, and

576
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: so in the Disney version, which does a very nice

577
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: job of laying this out, Beauty is an entirely commendable female.

578
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: She's attractive and wise, intelligent, ethical, devoted to her father,

579
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: but not in the pathological way. Independent. She has everything

580
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: going for her. She's the target of the advances of

581
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: a narcissistic Macavellian Gaston, who's like a parody of masculinity.

582
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: He's sort of you might think about him as the

583
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: as the feminine patriarchal nightmare and animated form said no one, ever,

584
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: what what are you doing? Well, he's not a nightmare

585
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: so much as a caricature, Like it's a movie, and

586
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: he's Gaston is the bad guy because he's everything Jordan

587
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: Peterson wants a man to be. He's deeply concerned with hierarchy.

588
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: He is unable to consider like the validity of other

589
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: people's experiences. He is deeply anti woke. He is he is.

590
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: He extracts unthinking lye from the world around him in

591
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: order to increase his own uh like power and his

592
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: own like relative level of wealth in society. Like he

593
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: has everything. Jordan Peterson thinks it's good for a man

594
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: to be, which is what He's a caricature. He's a

595
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: caricature of you. Jordan's right, yeah, and like the movement

596
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: you're supporting, it's so weird to also it's funny. He

597
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: and like you know, the shapires of the world. World,

598
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: they just can't like whenever they see something like that,

599
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: they can't. They like short circuit in a way because

600
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: he wants to talk about beauty and the beast in

601
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: a way that's like, oh, it's meaningful and it means

602
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: this and it demonstrates this, and like here's what it

603
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: says about life and it's good. But there's this character

604
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: who reminds me of me. So he's bad, Like the

605
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: idea that they're like, he's scoffing at this, He's what

606
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: he's saying is that, like, rather than Beauty and the

607
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Beast was even in the fucking whenever that movie was made,

608
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: like the sixties, right, even in this less this less

609
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: woke era, the people who made Beauty and the Beast

610
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: were specifically saying, like, masculinity, toxic masculinity of the sort

611
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: that Peterson embodies is something to be mocked and derided. Um,

612
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: which is like what they hate the most, Which is

613
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: what they hate the most, because the message of that

614
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: is that like things get better for this like like monstrous,

615
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: aggressive individual because he's fundamentally capable of change and like

616
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: listening to others and learning from them, and everything good

617
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: that happens to him and happens in the story is

618
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: because he's capable of listening to and learning from a

619
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: woman's ramping up to critique like feminist movements like me too. Yeah,

620
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of where we're Let's let's let's

621
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: continue from where we left a bluster. And although he's attractive,

622
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: it's a superficial attractiveness that often characterizes narcissists, and Beauty

623
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: is wise enough to actually prefer the beast, who's a

624
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: beast but also capable of standing up to Gaston and

625
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: also prevailing, which is the advantage of the beast like elements,

626
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: but also capable of being enticed by beauty and maybe

627
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: literally so into a first of all a productive orientation

628
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: for his proclivity for aggression, and also into a productive

629
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: and generous relationship and beauty being a wise woman and

630
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: oriented towards the good and characterized by a positive relationship

631
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: with her father, which is stressed by the way in

632
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: that movie wants a tamable beast. And first off, we'll

633
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: continue in a second. It's been a minute since I've

634
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: seen that. Isn't one of the points of it that

635
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 1: he's actually like not super violent, Like he he makes

636
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: like big threats and he blusters, but he never hurts her.

637
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: Nor is he a violent threat to the rest of

638
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: the village. No, he's only a violent threat to guests

639
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: on briefly at the end, because uh, he's like bringing

640
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: a mob of people. Um, that was so interesting to

641
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: see him be like, yeah, it's like he's having to

642
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: control his beastliness in order to defeat this narcissist And like,

643
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: I actually think the point of it is that he's

644
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: not really a beast. He just looks scary because of

645
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: a curse, but it's actually kind of a decent man

646
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: with some emotional trouble who needs to work through his problems,

647
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: like he becomes That not the actual point of the

648
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: story that he's not gentle by the end. Um, it's

649
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: so weird that he lead with that. I'm just saying,

650
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: update to dating profile must be four years older than

651
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: me and be a hashtag tam moable beasts be at

652
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: tamable beamable beast because I feel anyway guys would be like,

653
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: oh yeah, finally, finally, why don't you keep playing for

654
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: a little bit longer. We did that, We did the

655
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: rest of the thing that you No, no, no, I

656
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: want to get to the point where he talks about

657
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: how women like erotic literature. Yes, yes, yes, I've seen

658
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: before before sorry, before we before we play this, I

659
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: have seen again. All this stuff is stuff he's talked

660
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: about like ninety million times on other podcasts and flogs

661
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: and stuff. I've seen him talk about what he's about

662
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: to talk about with his daughter. Productive and competent, but

663
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: so capable of enough aggression to keep the real monsters

664
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: at bay. And that's a very narrow needle I for

665
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: women to threat because you need a man who is

666
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: aggressive enough to keep the real monsters away, but simultaneously

667
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: agreeable enough, empathic enough, generous enough to be good with kids,

668
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: to be good with her, and to share. And so

669
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: that's a very fine line. And the taming of the

670
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: beast is in some sense the negotiated establishment of that line.

671
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: So there's a book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts that

672
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: was written by Google engineers, who are quite reliable social

673
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: scientists when they put their minds to it, engineer types

674
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: because they tend to follow the data independent of any

675
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: political inclination. And they looked at patterns of pornography use

676
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: among men and women, drawing on literally billions of data

677
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: points a Billion Wicked Thoughts, and they found was something

678
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: that had been reported previously, but this was on a

679
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: very large scale. That men use visual pornography. I don't

680
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: think that comes as a shock to anyone, but that

681
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: women's preferred pornographic art form is literary. The women like stories,

682
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: and they analyze the canonical female pornographic fantasy and it's

683
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: basically surprise, surprise, fifty shades of gray, and so the

684
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: Google engineers identified five categories of men that were often

685
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: the feature target for the romantic and erotic adventures of

686
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: the female protagonist in the pornographic stories Pirate, vampire, surgeon, billionaire,

687
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: and one I can never remember, but you get the

688
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: ideas it's werewolf. The one he cannot remember is werewolf.

689
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: You remember here you put a werewolf in there, and like,

690
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: there's so much that's wrong here. Number one, I don't know. Obviously,

691
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: a number of women find it attractive when a man

692
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: is like muscular or strong, or like large. There's something comfortable,

693
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: especially if you're smaller about that. That is like a

694
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: thing that occurs in the world. Um, But it's not

695
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: because those men are tamable beasts. And in fact, I

696
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: would argue that as in my experience, UM, it tends

697
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: to be deeply off putting. If you feel like somebody

698
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: is barely holding and check their aggressiveness, like, it's nice

699
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: to be with someone if you're who like you feel like, oh,

700
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: if something bad happens, this person will react well and

701
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: can help me stay safe and can protect people around me.

702
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: That is an attractive trait. It's like if a fire

703
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: breaks out and you happen to have someone there who

704
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: has experienced fighting fires and they put the fire out.

705
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: That is attractive. It is attractive to know, oh, that

706
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: person can handle themselves in a dangerous situation. Right. All

707
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: people find that attractive, men and women. It's always an

708
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: attractive trait for very obvious reasons. What very few people

709
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: find attractive is feeling, wow, this person could fly off

710
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: the handle and become a dangerous, violent person at any second.

711
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: Right because what he's talking about our fantasies. He's used

712
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: that word many times, what he's talking about, and in

713
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: these fantasies, they're not like pirate. It's not a violent,

714
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: angry pirate with a short fuse who could. It's the

715
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: charming erudit who's you know, he's violent, he's doing a

716
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: violent job, but he's not inherently a violent man. And

717
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: when you get to know it's the there's a reason

718
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: why an entire generation of women in the West fell

719
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: in love with Carrie always in uh fucking um the

720
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: Princess because he's, yeah, he's this pirate, but fundamentally, the

721
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: instant you talk to him, he doesn't. He's not this unchecked,

722
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: violent madman. He's a deeply urbane, erudit charming individual and

723
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: that's incredibly attractive. Yeah, I mean looking for a man

724
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: four years older hashtag te beast but also literal werewolf.

725
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: Not the two deeply handsome men in who have a

726
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: generation men and women fell in love with in the

727
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: Princess Diary and to Go Montolia and Carrie is the

728
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: dread pilot. Princess Bride is the dread pirate. Roberts are

729
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: both like deeply thoughtful and emotionally connective, gentle yeah yeah, gentle,

730
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: very gentle, and merciful as a general rule. Yeah, they

731
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: treat Buttercup wonderfully the entire time, uh pheasant, like they're all,

732
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: it's just what a fucking It's incredible. But also like

733
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: even his is the thing he's citing. He's like a surprise, surprise.

734
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: It's fifty shades of Gray um, and I'm not I

735
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: have not read fifas of Gray um. I've like read

736
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: funny reviews of it a little bit, but like I'm

737
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: pretty sure the gray character who but the main character's

738
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: name is Christian Gray, which yeah, yeah, the billy, but

739
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: like he's not like a violent, vicious man. It's an

740
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: arrangement that they have made consual sexual arrangement. It's a

741
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: sexual arrangement where she feels safe in that relationship to

742
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: open herself up and feel and be vulnerable in that scenario.

743
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: It's not like, Oh, he's like a fucking violent, like

744
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: sadist and I'm gonna but I'm gonna tame him. Like,

745
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: that's not what it's about. Right, there's this there's this thing,

746
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: and we're we're going to tread into some dicey territory.

747
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: You can find a number of men who wrote, particularly

748
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: back in the seventies, really bad essays about the fact

749
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: that rape is a really common sexual fantasy, right, that

750
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: a lot of sexual fantasies involve assault and domination in

751
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 1: that san Bernie Sanders wrote a terrible essay. Hunter Thompson

752
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: wrote a terrible essay. And as somebody who has repeatedly

753
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 1: interviewed like people who professionally, sometimes in a clinical sense,

754
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: help people engage with fantasy, is like that part of

755
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: the reason why those are so common is they allow

756
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: people who have been victimized to take power and agency

757
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: in a situation that was deeply traumatic to them and

758
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,479
Speaker 1: kind of recreate and explore that that that experience while

759
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: being able to take agency and control this time, and

760
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: that is a that is a reason why that is

761
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 1: a thing that people. But I don't think a guy

762
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: like Jordan is capable of understanding that. Instead he interprets

763
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: it as women actually want this a diversion of this

764
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: to happen to them, rather than like, well, people who

765
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: are traumatized may seek to explore the thing that traumatized

766
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: them in a way in which they have more agency. Yeah. Um,

767
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of fucked up that he's a psychologist. It's

768
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: really fucked up that he's a psychologist. This is a

769
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: deeply stead of studied, like piece of like sexual psychology.

770
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: A lot has been written by clinicians about why people

771
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: do the things in some of this role playing that

772
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: they do, Like this is a thing people study academically

773
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: that I don't think he's ever read about, because it

774
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: would it would make him uncomfortable versus a little bubble um.

775
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: I feel like he said these had like tweets about this,

776
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: like uh, like about I feel like it was about Muslims, yeah,

777
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: and like desiring like I don't even want to find it.

778
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, No, it's not it's just again he's

779
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: he's he's wrong about everything. Um, just like he's wrong

780
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: about were wolves because he forgot them, which is funny

781
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: because that's like, look, if you're gonna, if you're gonna,

782
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna list things that are common in erotic fiction,

783
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: like werewolf is going to be the top of everybody's

784
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: were wolf in pirates, right, were wolves and pirates like like,

785
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: I wonder like because there's like he's like and then

786
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: there's a fourth one and I can't remember it and

787
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: then text on screens that werewolf. I wonder if they

788
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: didn't know, Like part of me feels like because he

789
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: I think he just like probably talks and then leaves

790
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: and isn't like privy to like what it turns out

791
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: as he's not like in the editing room, you know,

792
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: being like, oh d text here is just some fucking

793
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: person got I watched this and cut to a shot

794
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: of his hands or whatever. So I feel like the

795
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: editor like guests like, oh, pirates vampire werewolves too, And

796
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: that's why it says werewolves, not because that's what he

797
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: couldn't think of, but because the editor had to fill

798
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: it in. Yeah, it's, um, you know what I would

799
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: like to do with Jordan Peterson if I could, I

800
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: would like to sit him downward, and I would like

801
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: to make him watch the movie Wolf Cop, and I

802
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: would like him to interpret the film Wolf Cop, particularly

803
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: the scene in which the main character bursts Dick Frost

804
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: first into a werewolf. It's the most incredible scene in

805
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: cinematic history. Nothing has ever compared to it. God, I

806
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: love wolf I I'm just now hearing of it. Have

807
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: you not seen wolf Coffee turns cock first into a

808
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: werewolf Cody and you see it all? What it is

809
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: amazing everything you see everything Wolf Cop. Watch it. I'm

810
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: checking out the trailer right now. It is heard he's

811
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: a very drunk cop. The main character is a drunk cop. Yes,

812
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: because he's wasted. He is like he is like the

813
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: Sheriff and Jaws level alcoholic. It's awesome. Um. And then

814
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: the best thing about it is after he becomes a werewolf,

815
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: he doesn't stop being a cop. He's both a hundred

816
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: percent werewolf and a hundred percent cop at the same time,

817
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: which is groundbreaking. I mean that's why he's the wolf

818
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: cop right, Yes, exactly. Anyway, anyway, lampire and wolf cop

819
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: and wolf cop so um, it's very funny. H So

820
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: he goes into this misunderstanding of this Google study to

821
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: say that it's really important that all of these preferred

822
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: female fantasy men um were like these these fantasies remained

823
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: in place during Me Too. Like that's that he thought,

824
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: you think that's a big deal. I knew it. Anyway,

825
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: here's how he describes the Me too movement, just taking

826
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: a deep sigh. All male will is potentially corrupted by

827
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: power and to be regarded with suspicion and legal regulation. Well,

828
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: that's far too extreme and preposterous. And so what you

829
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: have as a compensatory fantasy emerge. That's highlighting the value

830
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: that's not being properly attended to by the culture, and

831
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: it possesses people in an unconscious manner, you might say, uh,

832
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: in an attempt to bring them back to the middle.

833
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: And anyways, that's all part of the tamable monster and

834
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: is it is it also hand motions during that exact

835
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: part or just spectacularly distracting. It's his need to like

836
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: make these things complex and deeper than Like, it was

837
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: easy for men to get away with assaulting women and

838
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: they didn't like that, and they're frustrating, Like listening to

839
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: them talk about this stuff, it's like, no, man, just

840
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: like people don't like to be assaulted. Jordan's like the

841
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: like why me too happen is extremely simple. It was

842
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: easy for powerful men to get away with abusing women,

843
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: and the women didn't like it, like it, and also

844
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: a lot of men didn't like it because it's fucked

845
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: up and horrible, like people did. People don't like that.

846
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: It's bad. Some people did and those people are bad. Yeah,

847
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: those people are terrible, and we wanted them out of

848
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: our society. There the tamable beasts. You can even phrase

849
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: that in like a stupid mythic term, where like fundamentally

850
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: society is all sheep and wolves, and the wolves were

851
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: preying on the sheep, but dressing as the wolf. It's

852
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: the evil uncle and the crowd own and I don't

853
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: know whatever, I'm not going to try to do that,

854
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: like you can do a man job of this than

855
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: because um yeah. So after this, he restates for like

856
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: the fifth fucking time that a man who can be

857
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: aggressive but also knows how not to be aggressive is

858
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: the most useful kind of man, which is like pointless. Yes,

859
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 1: aggression is sometimes necessary so it is it is good

860
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: to be capable of aggression and also know when that's

861
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: not appropriate. Like obviously, that's the thing of saying, like,

862
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: it's good to know when you should use a kitchen

863
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: knife as opposed to putting the kitchen knife away so

864
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: you don't accidentally cut somebody. Well, yes, Jordan's it is

865
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: good to not just swing a kitchen knife around. There's

866
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: a time and a place for that knife. Everyone knows this, um. Also,

867
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: the same is true of women, where it's you need

868
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: to be aggressive sometimes and other times it's inappropriate to

869
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: be aggressive. That is true of all human beings, like

870
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,439
Speaker 1: sometimes human beings will need to be aggressive, but most

871
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: of the time they won't need to be, and knowing

872
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: the difference is critical. Obviously, Jordan um, I don't know.

873
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: His episode peters out to a completely nonsensical closing statement.

874
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: Control is that way more useful man than one who

875
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: cannot do that for lack of ability or because he's

876
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: imposed or incorporated arbitrary moral constraints on his perceptions and

877
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: behavior that stop him from well from from from being

878
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: able to say no, for example, because saying no is

879
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: an act of aggression, as what no means no means

880
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: stop doing that, or something you do not like will

881
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: absolutely happened to you. And so without that, there's no

882
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: capacities say no. And well, if you can't say no,

883
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: you can't negotiate, you can't you can't move forward, you

884
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: can't you can't live your own life. You can't put

885
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: limits on Machiavellian's, you can't oppose narcissists, you can't emerge

886
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: scathed from people use empathy in a manipulative way. You

887
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: can't put constraints on a bad, badly behaving two year old.

888
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: Oh good, get the song. No in aggression, those are

889
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: an integrated aggression. Those are pretty much exactly the same thing.

890
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: What what what? The same thing is inherently enactive violence. Impressively,

891
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: he's saying that because like, you can't say no without

892
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: the threat of force. But for example, the other night,

893
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: my friends were going out to dance and they asked

894
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: if I wanted to go, and I said no, And

895
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: you know what I didn't was not present at all

896
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: was the fact that I might harm them physically if

897
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: they asked me again. Right, there was no threat. It

898
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: was just I was asked if I wanted to do

899
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: a thing, and I stated that I did not right,

900
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: because like what he's like assuming that, like it's not

901
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: just like the no is violence, it's the initial question

902
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: is violence. Yeah, everything is violence. It's just meeting violence violence,

903
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: and so rejecting that is also implicit violence. And also

904
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: like as a general even in the because he's obviously

905
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: means a lot of this is like a in a

906
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: like in a sexual way, like if a man asks

907
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: something of a woman and she says no, that's a

908
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: violence on her part too, because obviously she can only

909
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: back up the fact that, like she doesn't want him

910
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: to do something if she's willing to use force, which

911
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: is nonsense, because I think it is for the most

912
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: part in human society when like people ask do you

913
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: want to do like hey, do you want to make

914
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: out or whatever or have some sort of like physical

915
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: arrangement and the other person says no, As a general rule,

916
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: most people are like, oh okay, and there's not a

917
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: threat of violence because most people don't want to be rapists.

918
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: I do feel like that's probably someone that is somewhat

919
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,479
Speaker 1: of a statement of faith on my part. But yeah,

920
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: I mean according to Jordan, that's not true. Sort of

921
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: the Jordan that's not true. It's the threat of violence

922
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: on both sides period. Also like just what a weird

923
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 1: way to end um. But like it's just again, it's

924
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: one of those things where he's like he's talking these

925
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: grandiose terms and in some ways just misrepresenting things and

926
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: just saying fucked up, like uh, like hard lined rules

927
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: about how everybody is and how everybody should act. But

928
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: what he's talking about like almost it's like, yeah, it's

929
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: good to set boundaries and be able to say no,

930
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: which which okay, yeah, But also saying no is inherently

931
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: not an act of violence, right, No, Like it's it's

932
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: like it's like packaged and all this other stuff is

933
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: like it would be it would be fair to say that,

934
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: like sometimes because of because of the fact that many

935
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: men have bad boundaries and are aggressive in an unhinged way,

936
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: women may need to know how to say no in

937
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: a in a way that is aggressive and that implies

938
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: a degree of threat because they may be in a

939
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: situation where they are themselves threatened. That's a fair statement,

940
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: but also number one, that's not ever going to be

941
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: generally true. And number two, we should be moving as

942
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: a society to a situation which people don't have to

943
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: say no as a with the threat of aggression behind it,

944
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: like because that's bad. That's always a bad thing when

945
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: that happens. Anyway, Jordan Peterson, I mean he's talked about

946
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: this before in terms of like how you can't like

947
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: is it like you can't, uh, you can't control crazy

948
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: women because you can't be violent with Um you're a man,

949
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: I can the threat of violence is there, but if

950
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: you're a woman, it's not, so you can't do anything.

951
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: So there's nothing to control women. Yes, it's just a

952
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: weird guy. Yeah. I I don't know. I Uh, I

953
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: feel like he's not a good person, Cody. I think maybe, um,

954
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: maybe that's true. I think that those email and how

955
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: he treated his patients is pretty indicative that he's not

956
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: a very good person, aside from everything else he's ever said. Um,

957
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: and how we've used the world. Not a fan, not

958
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: a fan, Not a fan, Cody, you know what? I

959
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: am a fan of? What's that is you? Oh? Yeah?

960
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: Two times? Where where? Because I've never met you before,

961
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: this is the first time we're talking. If I wanted

962
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: to find things that you make and or create on

963
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: the internet, where would I find those uh so many

964
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: places or just a few, uh YouTube. I have a

965
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: show called some More News where all the podcasts are

966
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: a show called even more News Wow. And you can

967
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: support either of those Patreon, dot com, slash some more

968
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: News and I've got the websites social media with my

969
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: name Cody Johnston is there? Your name is Cody Amazing,

970
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram and my band the Hot Shapes will

971
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: be available quite soon for all listeners to hear our

972
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: album about. I'm not gonna joke about it, Cody, I

973
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: am as excited now is The Mighty Mighty boss Tones

974
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: were when they realized that there was a cultural tragedy

975
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: to exploit in order to sell an album, an entire

976
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: album about an entire an entire album, my god, my god,

977
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: not even like one song, not even a whole album.

978
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: Like if there's been one song, I'd be like, well,

979
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: you know it was whatever, misguided, but I get it,

980
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: like you you you felt the need to express yourself. Okay,

981
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: whole album, my god. Anyway, find the guys from the

982
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: Mighty Mighty boss Tones and and hit them hm or

983
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: like or I go up and say, no, you know

984
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: who didn't do ship like this is drop Kick Murphy's

985
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: They just beat the funk out of Nazis on stage

986
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: because they're right. They're okay, all right. Behind the Bastards

987
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from

988
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

989
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

990
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.