1 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hello and loom to save your protection of iHeartRadio. I'm 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: any Res. 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: for you about Vietnamese fish sauce. 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lord? 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: Uh, Nope, I don't think so. Or maybe, Okay, so 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: I might have I might have mentioned this in another episode. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: But I had a couple of friends in town and 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: went out to like a late night Atlanta Vietnamese spot 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: with them, and we walked in and this this just lovely, savory, 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: slightly sweet smell of the ocean hit me immediately upon entering, 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, this is going to be 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: a good meal. And I've been thinking about fish sauce 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: ever since. 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: I do not blame you, as I was telling you 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: before we started recording. I love Vietnamese food, and this 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: fish shauce ends up in a lot of it. Yeah, 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: And so the cravings are all over the It's just 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of things. 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: One of the things that we had that night was 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: little rice paper rolls that you roll up at the table. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 2: You know, they give you like a little dunking station 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: for your for your rice paper sheets. And then you 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: just you know, pull together. They give you like a 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: platter of grilled meats and herbs and stuff, and you 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: just make your own and and just a nice little 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: dip in some nook chum And. 30 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: Yes, I make that at home all the time, by 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, yeah, the little rice pistols love nice 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: light freshing lunch. 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of like a salad. 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: Yes, I love them. I love them. Oh so craving Sclore. 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Well for past episodes, Garum, I would say, totally, yeah, 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: ketch up kind of Worcester sauce, Exo sauce, soy sauce 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: and chovies fuh bond. 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: Me Yeah, yeah, definitely all of those. 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've covered a lot of ground. Well, I guess 40 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: that brings us to our question. Sure me'se fish sauce? 41 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: What is it? 42 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: Well, Vietnamese fish sauce, or in Vietnamese nu mom is 43 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: a type of liquid seasoning made from salted, fermented fish, 44 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: and apologies for my Vietnamese throughout, I do not have 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: much experience with this language and it probably shows anyway. 46 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: So anchovies are the most common fish this is made with. Traditionally, 47 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: sea salt and fish are the only two ingredients with 48 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: enzymes contained in the fish, plus friendly bacteria doing the 49 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: work over several months to a couple of years to 50 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: break the fish down into a liquid, and then producers 51 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: separating that from the remaining solids. And what you wind 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: up with is this lovely, like amber colored sauce that's thin, inconsistency, 53 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: and just packed with like savory, salty, funky, rich flavor 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: with just a little like fruity sweetness to it. It's 55 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: used to season savory dishes and to make the popular 56 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: table condiment and dipping sauce Nouk Chalm, which is fish 57 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: sauce thinned and flavored with like water, sugar and lime 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: juice or white vinegar plus stuff like garlic and chilies. 59 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: Straight fish sauce is a wallop, just like a one 60 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: bottle umami bomb. It's sort of like when you're playing 61 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: in the ocean under the hot sun and you get 62 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: slapped in the face with a wave and it's just joyous, 63 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: like the ocean is playing too. 64 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: Yes, lovely, it's lovely, so nice, Oh my gosh. Okay. 65 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: In order to understand more about what we're looking at, though, 66 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: let's talk about how fish sauce is made. So You 67 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: start with fresh fish, fresh whole fish, and you layer 68 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: them with salt. You traditionally do this in vessels like 69 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: terra cotta pots or wooden barrels. Those wooden barrels can 70 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: be like as tall as a person and as wide 71 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: as a person in diameter, just absolutely huge. And this 72 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: process is a precisely controlled breakdown of the fish by yes, 73 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 2: both enzymes from the fishes intestines, which is why they 74 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: need to be whole and friendly bacteria. But first, the 75 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: heavy salting draws water out from the fish and helps 76 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: break down some cell walls, releasing those enzymes that help 77 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: the process along further. And while this is happening, the 78 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: salt also prevents unfriendly bacteria from growing until there's enough 79 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: water for the bacteria that you actually want to start growing. Together, 80 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: the enzymes and bacteria break down proteins in the fish 81 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: into things like amino acids, glutenic acids, and other building 82 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: blocks that will give the final product all of those 83 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: deep savory flavors. As with any fermentation process, every piece 84 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: of the puzzle here matters. You know, the ratio of 85 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: salt to fish, the temperature, the humidity, the total length 86 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: of the ferment and fish sauce can be in progress 87 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: for like months to years. During that time, depending on 88 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: the recipes of the region, or the company or the 89 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: person who is making it. At various points in the process, 90 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: the mixture might be stirred or absolutely not stirred. The 91 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: vessels might be drained of liquid and then have that 92 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: liquid poured back in at the top. The vessels might 93 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: be moved into and out of the sunlight. More salt 94 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: or brine might be added. When it's ready, the mixture 95 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: is drained to obtain liquid, which is filtered to obtain 96 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: fish sauce. The first draw is considered the best. After 97 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: that you can add brine to a barrel to obtain 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: further draws of liquid. On the label a fish sauce 99 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: might indicate whether it's first draw and like the type 100 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: of fish that it's made from. You might also see 101 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: a number on the label expressed as something like twenty 102 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 2: and per liter. That will indicate the nitrogen level of 103 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: the product, which is an indication of the amount of 104 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: breakdowns of stuff that occurred during fermentation. A higher number 105 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: is generally considered better. Honestly, anything above forty is kind 106 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: of showing off your mileage. May vary, though twenty to 107 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: forty is great. Fish sauce is also produced industrially with 108 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 2: the aid of starter cultures or added enzymes to like 109 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: speed along the process and improve yields, or can be 110 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: made using added flavorings or preservatives as as you might 111 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: be able to tell here because this is a natural product. 112 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: Vietnamese fish sauces can have lots of different flavors and 113 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: like kind of characters depending on the region the producer, 114 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: even the particular barrel. Other fishing cultures around Southeast Asia 115 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: and the Pacific do make fish sauces as well. Vietnamese 116 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: types tend to be a little bit like lighter and 117 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: with that slightly sweet finish in contrast to a lot 118 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: of kind of like stronger, darker, more salty or savory types. Yeah, 119 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: the European Union has granted a protected designation of Origin 120 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: or PEDO to fish sauce, specifically from Fuquok I also 121 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: heard fu Walk. I don't speak Vietnamese. Here we are 122 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: This is the largest island in Vietnam. It's located a 123 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: little to the west of Vietnam in like in the 124 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: Gulf of Thailand, kind of closer to the south coast. 125 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: Of Cambodia. They source the salt used in this fish 126 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: sauce from specific coastal areas of Vietnam. They fish the 127 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: anchovies from specific waters. The anchovies begin their salting process 128 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: on the boats that have caught them at specific ratios 129 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: of salt to fish. They're fermented in local forest hardwood barrels. 130 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: I love a pedio process, and further, I am not 131 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: the only person excited about fermentation. In twenty twenty five, 132 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: the newspaper Vietnam News quoted this artisan producer by the 133 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: name of Win Van Wa, saying each barrel of fish 134 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: sauce is like a living being. It requires care, patients 135 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: and respect for the sea's rhythm. When you open the 136 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: barrel after twelve months, what you get is not just 137 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: fish sauce. It's the spirit of the island. 138 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: I love the right. 139 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: To a person, and I mean, like, I know that 140 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 2: there's a little bit of marketing involved in this, but like, 141 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: but like to a person, everyone that I read or 142 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: watched a video of talking about the production process was 143 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: poetic about it. It was wonderful. 144 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: Yes, people do really care about it. 145 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean we talk about Yeah, I 146 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: mean it is kind of the backbone of Vietnamese cooking. 147 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, M well, what about the nutrition. 148 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: Uh, you know, a little bit goes a long way, 149 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: so you're probably not consuming that much. But but they can. 150 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: Fish sauces can contain like kind of a lot of protein. 151 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: They do also tend to be high in sodium, so like, 152 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: watch out for that. If that's something you're watching out for. 153 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: You drink some water, yes, yes, always, Well, we do 154 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 2: have some numbers for you, m M. The global market 155 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: for fish sauces in general is worth around eighteen billion 156 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: dollars a year, like seventeen to eighteen and that's including Vietnamese, 157 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: Thaie and Filipino sauces. Vietnam and Thailand are the largest 158 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 2: exporters of fish sauces around the world. Vietnam exports a 159 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: little bit over twelve percent of its fish sauce, mostly 160 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: to the Asian market. As of twenty twenty five, production 161 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 2: in Fuquak was about fifteen to twenty million liters a 162 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 2: fish sauce a year. That's like fourty five million gallons 163 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: At any given time. They've got about seven thousand fermentation 164 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: barrels in the works, overseen in some one hundred facilities 165 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: by one thousand workers, and that is only a drop 166 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: in the fish bucket. Of the total of four thoy 167 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: two hundred facilities throughout Vietnam that produce some three hundred 168 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: and eighty million liters or one hundred million gallons of 169 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: fish sauce per year. Nearly half of that is consumed nationally. Wow, yep, 170 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: yep urs uh huh good. At least one hundred and 171 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: forty eight strains of bacteria have been isolated from fish 172 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: sauce fermentation tanks, with different types of bacteria living at 173 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: different levels within the tanks. 174 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: I love this. That's cool. 175 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 2: Oh and I didn't say it before, So bacteria poop 176 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: there you go? Yeah yeah. The first Fish Sauce Festival 177 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: in Vietnam happened in Hutchimen City across five days in 178 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: October of twenty twenty four. There were educational and culinary 179 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 2: demonstrations and a lot of food and drink, including apparently 180 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: fish sauce coffee. 181 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: Interesting. 182 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: I know, right, I've heard of putting salt in your coffee. 183 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: I kind of enjoy it when a coffee tastes a 184 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: little bit like a turkey dinner, so I feel like 185 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 2: I would dig this. 186 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: I can see it working, you know, I can see it. 187 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: Fo Quack held their own Fish Sauce Festival for the 188 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: first time last year in twenty twenty five. 189 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: In the summer. 190 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: There were demonstrations of fishing and salting and sauce extraction, 191 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: plus music and cooking contests. I couldn't find out that 192 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: much more about it, but it sounds delightful. 193 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: That sounds, yes, delightful. Uh, listeners, once again, if you 194 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: happen to have gone. 195 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, what us No, please, absolutely, all the time, 196 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: all the time. 197 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: Yes, well, we do have quite a history for you. 198 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: Oh we do, and we are going to get into that. 199 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: But first we are going to get into a quick 200 00:12:53,920 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: break for a word from our sponsors. 201 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So, 202 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: like Lauren, I do not speak Vietnamese, but I'm gonna 203 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: try my best. Yeah, just try our best to get 204 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: through this. It's gonna be great. Yeah, be great. Yeah. 205 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: All right, So a lot of the basics here we 206 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: did discuss in our episode on Garum, which was a 207 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: fish sauce enjoyed by the ancient Romans and Greeks, which 208 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: is the huge people really really really want to recreate it. Yes. 209 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: By this point, humans had generally learned that salt caring 210 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: foods could help preserve them. In the case of garum, 211 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: that meant salting small fish, adding maybe some herbs in 212 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: there for flavor to make a fermented sauce that could 213 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: be added to all kinds of things. During the Roman Empire, 214 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: the Spanish exported high quality garam to parts of Europe, 215 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: including Greece and and also Egypt. Factories producing garum opened 216 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: in other countries in North Africa and other places in Europe, 217 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: though the type of small fish in question would differ 218 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: based on location. In recent pushes to recreate garam, those 219 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: involved in trying to recreate it have cited Vietnamese fish 220 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: sauce as being the closest available substitute, and some suggest 221 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: that garum may have been a part of Vietnamese fish 222 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: sauce's history. Huh so. The history of fish sauce in 223 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: Vietnam is very hard to pin down, but historians think 224 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: that it arrived in Vietnam and Asia in general from 225 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: Rome via the Silk Road, or that these sauces arrived 226 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: thanks to the ancient Greeks or Vietnam and pockets of 227 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: Asia at large pioneered their own fish sauces, and neither 228 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: Rome nor Greece had anything to do with it. Some 229 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: think that making fish sauce was already a practice in Vietnam, 230 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: but that yes, the sauce from Rome influenced some of 231 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: their sauces, or that soy sauce from China was the 232 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: primary influence, which itself dates back to ten forty six 233 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: to two hundred and fifty six BCE, or that it 234 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: was so ubiquitous this fish sauce that people simply didn't 235 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: write about it until much later, so we just don't know, 236 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: or also possibly that a fish sauce arrived through a 237 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: trade route from Mesopotamia, where people were making fish sauces 238 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: as far back as three thousand BCE. So oh, yeah, 239 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: we a lot of options could be a I think 240 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: a pick and choose. 241 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I as with a lot of especially fermented 242 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 2: products like this, it kind of like you have fish 243 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: you have sea salt, because you had to get the 244 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: fish from the sea, and it kind of makes sense 245 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: to put them together to preserve them. 246 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: So yes, especially since at its base form it is 247 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: those two ingredients. Yep. Yeah, So whatever the case, Vietnamese 248 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: fish sauce goes back at least at least three hundred years. 249 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: The largest ethnic population of Vietnam, the Keen, adopted local 250 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: fish sauce making techniques from localized groups into their cooking 251 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: and dishes. Anchovies so see your anchovy episode, but yes, 252 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: to make this sauce. Black anchovies are other small fish 253 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: that were available in the waters near Vietnam. Were caught, 254 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: salted and put in a container, either a wooden barrel 255 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: or something ceramic or something possibly clay. The fish was 256 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: then traditionally fermented for several months, maybe up to a year, 257 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: with occasional stirring. That's what I read. But as Lauren said, 258 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: stirring maybe not. While specific variants did pop up based 259 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: on taste and ingredients, some of these fish sauces were sweeter, 260 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: some were sour, some saltier. It was more of a 261 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: proportion thing than anything else. The basic fish sauce generally 262 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: stayed the same, in part because it was fairly simple 263 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: in terms of what it required. People had their own 264 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: recipes that they passed down across generations with tweaks in 265 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: terms of flavor preference. But what really hammered home its 266 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: popularity was how it could go into pretty much anything. 267 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: If you had a solid based recipe for this fish sauce, 268 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: then there you go. It could transform your food with 269 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: just a couple of drops. Allegedly, when colonizers arrived in 270 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: Vietnam in the sixteenth century, they avoided fish sauce, so 271 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: it became kind of an indicator of being Vitnamese, especially 272 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: because it was used in all kinds of Vietnamese dishes. 273 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: As we discussed in the Fu and Bondme episodes, early 274 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: French colonizers did have an influence on Vietnamese cuisine, but 275 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 1: a lot of those dishes still incorporated Vietnamese fish sauce. 276 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: This is also around the time ingredients like chili peppers 277 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: were introduced to Vietnam, which some people did include in 278 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: some of the variants of fish sauce. 279 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 2: Apparently, one of the things that brought fish sauce to 280 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: the attention or interest of Europeans was when in nineteen 281 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: eighteen a researcher working with the French pasteur Institute in 282 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: Sagon looked into the production and chemical composition of fish 283 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: sauce and published this bulletin about it being like a 284 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: good source of amino acids that was during a time 285 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: when people were really cluing in to nutrients in foods 286 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 2: and so. Yeah. 287 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: Interesting, hmm. One of the largest producers of fish sauce 288 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: in Vietnam, Fong Hung, opened in nineteen fifty and the 289 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: fish used in their sauce was is primarily composed of 290 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: black anchovies and smaller white anchovies. At first, the fish 291 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: were fermented in barrels made of the wood from the 292 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: Boila tree, but they had to start importing the wood 293 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: from Cambodia when the tree became endangered in Fuquak National 294 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: Park where they had previously gotten it. The temperature and 295 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: overall environment like the humidity play a role in the 296 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: sauce as well. As you said, Lauren, this is around 297 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: the time that more people outside of Vietnam started to 298 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: become acquainted with this sauce. Vietnamese refugees coming to America 299 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: during or after the Vietnam War in the nineteen seventies 300 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: also brought their taste for fish sauce with them. However, 301 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: in the early days, it wasn't easy to recreate or 302 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: obtain in the United States. 303 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, the US government enacted an embargo against trade with 304 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: the Vietnam in nineteen seventy five. That only started to 305 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: be lifted in nineteen ninety four, and like really lasted 306 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: through two thousand and one, so during that whole time 307 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: you couldn't really import it. 308 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. The founder of Red Boat Fish Shaus, Quang Fom, 309 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: arrived in the US from Vietnam in nineteen seventy nine, 310 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: and he ran into this problem when he visited Vietnam 311 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, he tried a fish shauce 312 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: that was so good he snuck some back into the 313 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: United States and he gave some to his mother, who, 314 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 1: according to him, started crying after tasting it, presumably because 315 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: she had not had it in so long. A year later, 316 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: Fom left a well paying tech job to start producing 317 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: his own fish shaus in the United States under the 318 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: name Red Boat Fish Shaus. 319 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: This is one that you're going to see on a 320 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: lot of story shelves around the United States. It's very popular. 321 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: Yes. As Vietnamese fish sauce grew more popular globally, a 322 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: number of bad or even just lazy players entered the market, 323 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: using low quality fish and an ingredients, sometimes even trying 324 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: to pass their products off as being from Fuquok when 325 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: they were not, and Fuqualk is kind of like where 326 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: you are looking to get it from. Yeah yeah. Starting 327 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: in the two thousands, big companies jumped on the bandwagon 328 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: as well, and then in twenty twelve, Fuquok Fish Sauce 329 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: received a PDO of Protected Designation of Origin from the 330 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: European Union. In twenty twenty one, it was recognized as 331 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: a National and Tangible Cultural heritage. The twenty fifteen award 332 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: winning novel The Sympathizer by Viet Tan Yuen featured this quote, Oh, 333 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: fish sauce, how we missed it, dear aunt, How nothing 334 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: tasted right without it? How we longed for the grand 335 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: crew of Fuquok Island and its bat brimming with the 336 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: finest vintage of pressed anchovies. The book is a thriller 337 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: and an examination of identity that takes place after the 338 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: fall of Saigon. I believe it's also a mini series 339 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: on HBO. Anyway, it's a big deal. Yeah, yes, ooh, 340 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: another big deal. When then President Barack Obama tried a 341 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: bowl of rice from Chili and pork in Honois in 342 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen alongside Anthony Bourdain, Bourdaine described the main flavor 343 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: profile as Vietnamese fish sauce. After trying it, Obama declared 344 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: this is killer. 345 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, a number of industry experts got together 346 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: to form a trade organization called the Vietnam Traditional Fish 347 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: Sauce Association. Today, some research is going into developing bacterial 348 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 2: cultures to help standardize and speed up fish sauce fermentation. 349 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: This is a little bit controversial, but you know, could 350 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: could help the industrial side along. 351 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: A combination of climate change and over fishing has negatively 352 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: impacted the anchobe population in the waters near Vietnam, which 353 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: in turn has impacted the production of Vietnamese fish sauce 354 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: the country MH. 355 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 2: But government and industry leaders have proposed building a museum 356 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 2: in food clock to promote like cultural and economic expansion, 357 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: the Fuquock Traditional Fish Sauce Craft Museum. 358 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: I am on board, right, I am on board. There's 359 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: a part of me that's like, does that mean I 360 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: get to help make fish sauce? But then I've also 361 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: I've heard mixed things about how the smell during the process. 362 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 2: Actually, I've I've heard it can be quite strong like 363 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 2: in I mean, like look like any fishing area, like 364 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 2: any any area that has a heavy fishing industry. You 365 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: can get some fish smell occurring, but I from what 366 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: I understand, in a good facility, you know, like the 367 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 2: same way that in any place of fermentation, like you're 368 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: gonna get some weird, funky smells, but it should basically 369 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: smell clean and a little bit like whatever it is 370 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: you're fermenting, and in this case, yeah, that's fish. So 371 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: there's going to be a fish smell. But I've heard 372 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: it described as a strong but actually quite pleasant. 373 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm into it. Like I said, I would go 374 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: to this museum in a heartbeat and try try to 375 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: help make some. 376 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, get me, get me in there. 377 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,719 Speaker 2: I Oh my goodness, I love visiting. 378 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 379 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: Oh I miss our. I miss our field trips. I 380 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 2: miss going to to to see yogurt and cheese and 381 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 2: and all kinds of alcohol getting made. So fun, this 382 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: smell of fresh yogurt being made at a large scale 383 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 2: is one of the most beautiful things in the universe, y'all. 384 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: It was really good. It was really good. The sound 385 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: of butter being church. 386 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: Turned large metal slightly terrifyings. 387 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, as sound people. I don't know about you, Lauren, 388 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: but I'm always every time I hear a sound. 389 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, that would be good and yeah, yeah, that's 390 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: a weird one. Mark that one down. 391 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: Exactly. Well. I think that's what we have to say 392 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: about Vietnamese fish shaws for now. It is. 393 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 2: We would love to hear from you, though, if you 394 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: have memories, if you have dishes, if you have been 395 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: to any of these facilities, we would love to hear 396 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 2: about it. In the meanwhile, we do already have some 397 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: listener mail for you, though, and we are going to 398 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 2: get into that as soon as we get back from 399 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 2: one more quick break for a word from our sponsors, 400 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: and we're back. 401 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with 402 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: a listener. 403 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: Wow. 404 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: So wonderful summer day with the Waves. 405 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh man. 406 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: Julie wrote after your episode about pineapple cakes. I was 407 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: at Costco and had to try them. They are really good. 408 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly how much they cost, but I 409 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: think it was between fifteen to twenty dollars. The crust 410 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: is crumbly and does taste a bit like shortbread. The 411 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: filling is very dense. Just wanted to share that they're 412 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: available at Costco so other people are able to find them. 413 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: Since even if you aren't located in an area with 414 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: Asian groceries near by. Most people live close to a costco. 415 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: Ooh good tip. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised, but hey, right, oh, 416 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: I love it. I love that though. That's terrific. 417 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: Oh man, I haven't I haven't been in a costco 418 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: in too long. I need to go and buy. I 419 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 2: mean not that I have like a lot of storage 420 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 2: space for large amounts of things, but like, yeah, it's 421 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: a wonderful place to be slightly overwhelmed. 422 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: Indeed, I've got some costco friends and I like to 423 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: go with them because I feel like they can guide me. 424 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: Right, right, You really need someone who's familiar and can 425 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: help you navigate, because otherwise you're just lost in the stacks, 426 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: the giant, giant stacks. 427 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll never never find us again. 428 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: They'll find me amongst the ketchups. 429 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: They say, she's still there. Oh goodness. 430 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 2: Heather wrote first on spruce Beer. We have several Norway 431 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: spruce trees that surround our house and lust Spring, my spouse, 432 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 2: inspired by just in the Trees, decided he wanted to 433 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: gather some spruce tips and try making spruce beer. After 434 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 2: procuring the required equipment for home brewing. The batch bubbled 435 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: away happily on the counter until it was time to 436 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: bottle it. The result was delicious, even if it had 437 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: more of a kick than we were expecting. He also 438 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 2: made tea and syrup from the spruce tips. The tea 439 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: was quite refreshing with a lemony flavor. I canned some 440 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: of the spruce syrup for him, and when we opened 441 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 2: a jar to go some pancakes recently, it was like 442 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 2: a bite of spring in the dark winter. The Rye 443 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: Whiskey episode brought up some fun memories from College. Washington, Pennsylvania, 444 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: where I went to College, is home to the David 445 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: Bradford House and other sites related to the Whisky Rebellion. 446 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: Bradford was heavily involved in the Whisky Rebellion, and his 447 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: house is now a museum. When I was in school, 448 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: the history club was involved in a yearly reenactment of 449 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: his escape from federal troops, and one year I got 450 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: to dress up as a frontiersman and with muzzleloader in hand, 451 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: be part of the group that warned him so that 452 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: he could make his escape. At that time, the house 453 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: was situated between a state liquor store and a bar, 454 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: which definitely added to the atmosphere. That little reenactment has 455 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: become a large, multi day festival instead of a pet tax. 456 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: I've attached a picture of some discharge papers for someone 457 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: who served in the Whiskey Rebellion that I was rehousing 458 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: at work. It's not often work in the Archives connects 459 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: to a food podcast, but I'm glad it did. 460 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Oh, that's so cool, fantastic. Oh my goodness. 461 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: I love historical cosplay. It makes me really happy. 462 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. And I love your work in 463 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: the archives. Yes, yes, I intersected with food history. That's fantastic. 464 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. And also all of this about spruce 465 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: tips sounds so delightful. Oh man, oh man, I need 466 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: to I need to do some online ordering of more 467 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: food products from various places. 468 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: Indeed, which brings us to do you want to give 469 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: you up toy? Lauren? Yeah? 470 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: Sure. So I can't remember if I mentioned on the 471 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: show or if I was just talking to Annie about it, 472 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: but I think I mentioned, uh. Yeah, Like, I've been 473 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: like like plotting my own personal red beans and rice 474 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: adventure and I cooked this weekend and it was extremely 475 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: successful and it's not really red beans and rice like 476 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: that anyone would really recognize, because like I can't eat 477 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: onions or bell peppers. But but yeah, like I bought 478 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: some Camellia brand beans and some nice long grain or rice, 479 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: and some Polish style smoked sausages and some really good 480 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: smoky bacon, and I cooked up over the course of 481 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 2: I don't know, like five hours of cooking time and 482 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: nine hours of soaking, a really nice. 483 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: Dish that is so hot, so good. I'm so happy 484 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: with myself. 485 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: I add a lot of hot sauce to it, yes, 486 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: but yeah, so like my vegetable base as always was 487 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: carrots and celery. I added some tomatillos, which is one 488 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: of my favorite ways to get like a little bit 489 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: of like I don't know, just like just like to 490 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: replace a bell pepper kind of vibe. 491 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, a few of those. 492 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: Habanero and yeah, a bunch of fresh thyme dried basil, 493 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: because I noticed that basil was an ingredient on the 494 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 2: cookie mix that Camillia sent me a little bit of 495 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 2: cayenne something that I'm probably forgetting. I actually wrote it down, 496 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: you guys. I'm so excited. I like took out one 497 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: of my thousands of notebooks that are just rotting slowly 498 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 2: in a drawer somewhere and wrote down what I did. 499 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: So if you really want to know, I can tell you. 500 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: Oh man, I recommend cooking things for like five hours 501 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: so much. It's so nice, it's so like mindful. It's 502 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: really grounding for me. And then you get to eat 503 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: food at the end of it. 504 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the best. It's the best. I completely agree, 505 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: and listeners, I can't stress enough how thrilled excited I 506 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: was when Lauren told me this. 507 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 2: I've been waiting for days to tell her and yeah, yeah, 508 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: and yes, she genuinely was so excited. Oh oh, I 509 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: do have to apologize to like the entire Cajun portion 510 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: of Louisiana. But when I was adjusting my seasonings at 511 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: the end of cooking, I regret to inform you that 512 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: tomato paste was the thing that it was missing that 513 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: really pulled the whole dish together. 514 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: Ooh, let's see what the listeners say about that. 515 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, there's some apple cider vinegar in there. Anyway, 516 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 2: I don't know yet. Next time, I'm going to find 517 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 2: a hamhock, maybe maybe buy some extra sausages to serve 518 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: with it corn bread like a good sweet corn bread 519 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: really goes well with it. Oh man, I just had 520 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: some for lunch before we started recording, and now I'm like, 521 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 2: maybe I should have more. I mean, I'm not going 522 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 2: to stop you. I'm very full. I'm going to be 523 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: full forever. That's one of the benefits of this dish. 524 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: Yes, it is very filling, and it makes a lot 525 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: as discussed and more and disgusting. Well, I'm so happy. 526 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: I'm so happy about this. I'm happy about this update. 527 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: I would love to hear how the next iteration goes. 528 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, me too. 529 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: We shall see. 530 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 2: I do have more beans to work with, so. 531 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. Well, thank you Lauren for the update, and 532 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If 533 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us, you can our 534 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: emails hello at savorpod dot com. 535 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 2: We're also hypothetically on social media. We're on Blue Sky 536 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: and Instagram at saver pod, and we would love to 537 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 2: hear from you. Savor is a production of iHeartRadio. For 538 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit the 539 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 540 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan 541 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we 542 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 2: hope that lots more good things are coming your way.