WEBVTT - Part Three: H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk

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<v Speaker 1>Also media, welcome back to Behind the Bastards, part three

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<v Speaker 1>of our series on hl Hunt this week.

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<v Speaker 2>You are welcome, but you all should really thank Princess Weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>our wonderful guest, for agreeing to sit in for a

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<v Speaker 2>third episode in a marathon recording session. Thank you, Princess,

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<v Speaker 2>you are braver than the troops.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 4>I love to learn, and I honestly just genuinely love

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<v Speaker 4>hearing about this stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>This is so fascinating, yeah and terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I love telling you about it. Let's start by

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<v Speaker 2>talking about our boy HL Hunt's second family, right because

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<v Speaker 2>I discussed how they he eventually moves them up to

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<v Speaker 2>New York and has a guy marry them. What I

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<v Speaker 2>did not note because I went in and kind of

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<v Speaker 2>added some stuff to the script once I realized that

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna wind up getting three parts, and I found

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<v Speaker 2>something I'd forgotten to add that was in my notestock,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that apparently Frannia, like when he marries her,

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't even know his real first name, like he

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<v Speaker 2>marries her under a fake name.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the notes that Hinderschott has in her

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<v Speaker 2>book is that he probably she probably first starts suspecting

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<v Speaker 2>that something's weird when they have their first child, who

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<v Speaker 2>is a girl, just like his first child with Leida,

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<v Speaker 2>and he names her Harold Dina, which is not he's

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<v Speaker 2>not telling her his first name is Harold, but he

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<v Speaker 2>names her after himself, and he names her he tries

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<v Speaker 2>to name her Harold Dina God, which is like crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm not Harold, that's not my name. Why are

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<v Speaker 2>you so? Why is that so important to you?

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<v Speaker 4>Man?

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<v Speaker 2>That's really weird, right, like be better? Yeah, no, that's

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<v Speaker 2>just bizarre.

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<v Speaker 3>What an odd guy.

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<v Speaker 2>When she finds out, he tries to get her before

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<v Speaker 2>he moves to New York. He tries to convince Frannia

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<v Speaker 2>to move to Utah and come a Mormon so that

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<v Speaker 2>they can legally quote unquote be big amous.

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<v Speaker 3>The role book that changes. The role book never changes.

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<v Speaker 3>He's like, listen, babe, we can get a farm Mormons

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<v Speaker 3>latter day.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's not go in. First off, your first wife wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be in Utah. Second, you're not Mormon, but I could be.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's when that stuff doesn't work that he like

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<v Speaker 2>pays her to move to New York right and sets

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<v Speaker 2>up trust for all the kids and finds someone to

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<v Speaker 2>marry them and pretend to be the father. Now this

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<v Speaker 2>is he's just going to get and have kids with

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<v Speaker 2>a third woman after this. Uh, And I think he's

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<v Speaker 2>I think actually this after light it dies that he

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<v Speaker 2>has his third partner, but I'm not one hundred percent sure.

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<v Speaker 2>But they wind up having several kids and he like

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<v Speaker 2>lives with them later in life in Dallas. Uh. But

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<v Speaker 2>he doesn't ever marry her, right because he's wow, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he take.

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<v Speaker 3>His money, letting no broads take my money this.

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<v Speaker 2>Day at least, I'm not going to be bigamously married again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he winds out. I think he does actually

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<v Speaker 2>give them a lot of money, but yeah, he doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>want to. He's not going to get bigamously married again.

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<v Speaker 2>So the need to seem fair and unbiased meant that Smoot,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, on the facts for him, his former FBI

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<v Speaker 2>man host has to act like he respects the liberal

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<v Speaker 2>lion on things, but he's always visibly more interested in

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<v Speaker 2>the conservative arguments. Another good example of that would come

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<v Speaker 2>from one time Smoot gets asked, should we continue to

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<v Speaker 2>handle Korea as a limited police action? You know this

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<v Speaker 2>is right at the start of the Korean War, or

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<v Speaker 2>should we, you know, put more troops into it right

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<v Speaker 2>quote Smoot first dryly answered in the affirmative, quoting Adelaie Stevenson,

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<v Speaker 2>Korea is the most remarkable effort the world has ever

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<v Speaker 2>seen to make collective security work. In choosing to repel

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<v Speaker 2>the first armed aggression of the communists, we chose to

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<v Speaker 2>make bitter sacrifices today to save civilization tomorrow. On the

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<v Speaker 2>negative side, Smoot drew a portrait of a hypothetical soldier

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<v Speaker 2>named Joe. It's cold up here in the winter, sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>thirty below zero. If a boy cries, his tears turned

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<v Speaker 2>to ice. And then there is the enemy, always the enemy,

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<v Speaker 2>and the kind of fight that man fought centuries ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Knives and fists, fingers groping for eyes, and teeth seeking

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<v Speaker 2>hot a soft spot in the neck. Maybe Joe will

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<v Speaker 2>die in the slit trench, and maybe he will live,

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<v Speaker 2>his hands sour and gummy with half digested rice gruel

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<v Speaker 2>ripped out of the stomach of a bleeding bundle of

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<v Speaker 2>rags and bones at his feet. So wild, wild, little

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<v Speaker 2>rant to go on there.

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<v Speaker 3>Man, I was just like, get it, screenwriter.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, In one of my favorite lines from her book,

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<v Speaker 2>Heather Hindershot writes, quote, Smoot could somehow snarl a feminate

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<v Speaker 2>egghead in such a way that it sounded infinitely worse

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<v Speaker 2>than son of a bitch. So he's like that, you

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<v Speaker 2>know that kind of broadcaster. Now, The Facts for Him

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<v Speaker 2>made itself a nexus of support for Joseph McCarthy, as

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<v Speaker 2>Hunt sought to convince regular Americans that communists needed to

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<v Speaker 2>be rooted out. Joe guests on only one episode of

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<v Speaker 2>the Facts for Him, but his researcher and future wife,

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<v Speaker 2>Jeane Carer, worked the Facts for him as a staffer.

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<v Speaker 2>Another early staffer was Robert e Lee. Not that Robert

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<v Speaker 2>e Lee. Yeah, this Robert e Lee was a former

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<v Speaker 2>FBI man who helped McCarthy compile his list of two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and five communists in the State Department. And there's

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<v Speaker 2>so many FBI guys who work for the Facts Forum.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's like a joke in the FBI that like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the retirement plan is working for this fucking right

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<v Speaker 2>wing billionaire. So things are going well. He's using the

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<v Speaker 2>Facts Forum to support his buddy Joe McCarthy, But then

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<v Speaker 2>Tailed Gunner, Joe makes the mistake of picking on the

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<v Speaker 2>army in the nineteen fifty four Army. McCarthy hearings are

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<v Speaker 2>a disaster for the man and for the broader cause

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<v Speaker 2>of being visibly crazy as an anti communist activist. The

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<v Speaker 2>hearings were broadcast on television and will only ABC and

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<v Speaker 2>the Dumont Network broadcast the hearings in full because they're

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six days long. The bigger networks, CBS and NBC

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<v Speaker 2>broadcast excerpts. And this actually the fact that these networks,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's money in advertising now, they don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>run just thirty six days of congressional hearings its way

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<v Speaker 2>is a huge waste of money. But because they decide

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<v Speaker 2>to take excerpts and just run clips from it, this

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<v Speaker 2>is actually the way the media covers the McCarthy hearings.

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<v Speaker 2>Is one of the first cases of SoundBite journalism right,

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<v Speaker 2>and sound bite journalism in a positive way, where previously

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<v Speaker 2>the reporting on this would have just been kind of

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<v Speaker 2>dull articles about another series of hearings about communism in

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<v Speaker 2>the US that most Americans wouldn't have known there was

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<v Speaker 2>anything to be upset by. Because these guys journalists are

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<v Speaker 2>looking for, like, well, what are the craziest things McCarthy's saying,

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<v Speaker 2>What are the wildest moments from this? It makes it

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<v Speaker 2>impossible to ignore, and they're playing this over and over

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<v Speaker 2>again that like, no, this is actually a real problem, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like this guy's out of his mind and is just

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<v Speaker 2>attacking people for no reason like that. Really, the fact

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<v Speaker 2>how this gets reported really helps to make that case,

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<v Speaker 2>because these networks are looking for, like the most embarrassing

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<v Speaker 2>and shocking moments and clip them out and playing them

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<v Speaker 2>over and over again. In What's Fair on the Air,

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<v Speaker 2>Hindershot writes Joseph Welch's famous rhetorical question, have you no

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<v Speaker 2>sense of decency? Sir at long Last, was not only

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<v Speaker 2>televised live by both ABC and Dumont on Day thirty

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<v Speaker 2>of the hearings, but also repeated dozens of times on

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<v Speaker 2>radio and TV. That night. Following McCarthy's attack on General

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<v Speaker 2>George C. Marshall, former President Harry S. Truman appeared on

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<v Speaker 2>Edward R. Murrow's See It Now and expressed his own

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<v Speaker 2>feelings about McCarthy. The man who made that attack isn't

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<v Speaker 2>fit to shine General Marshall's shoes. Damn Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty it's a pretty sick burn, actually he meant it. No.

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<v Speaker 4>That's interesting though, because it's like, I think when we

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<v Speaker 4>were growing up and we learned about this air of

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<v Speaker 4>mccarthy'sm but it seems so like inherently absurd and you're

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<v Speaker 4>just thinking, like, how could that ever happen? Like isn't

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<v Speaker 4>it just so obvious? And then you're here and you're like, well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>people don't pay attention to the longer thing. They need

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<v Speaker 4>the sound bites, sadly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they need the sound bites, right, and it like

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<v Speaker 2>there's actually some benefits to that. It's not all downsides.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the things this does, the fact that this

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of destroys McCarthy. It makes Hunt furious, and

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<v Speaker 2>it makes him furious because he becomes convinced this evidence

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<v Speaker 2>of the liberal media and the pernicious left wing bias

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<v Speaker 2>within the media. Right, it's a communist organist, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is kind of where the liberal media as

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<v Speaker 2>a conservative bugbear starts, right, not just with Hunt, but

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<v Speaker 2>it starts as a result in a big way, Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's majorly supercharged by the reaction to the McCarthy hearings,

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<v Speaker 2>and a Hunt is one of the people leading the

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<v Speaker 2>charge and attacking the liberal media right and for HL.

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<v Speaker 2>Hunt One of the things I think is really important

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<v Speaker 2>to point out today if you listen to like what

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<v Speaker 2>Barry Weiss and like the free fucking Press people say,

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<v Speaker 2>they all talk about Edward R. Murrow too, is like

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<v Speaker 2>we need to get back to a time when newsmen

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<v Speaker 2>were political and you know, they just were telling people

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<v Speaker 2>the truth and they were trusted. And in those days,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Americans knew that they could rely on their

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the people giving them the news, to not

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<v Speaker 2>just be in it for personal political gain. It wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>just some like wokest bullshit. If Edward R. Murrow were

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<v Speaker 2>reporting the day, they would call him woke. And I

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<v Speaker 2>know that because they called him woke in the fifties

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<v Speaker 2>like H. L. Hunting called him a woke leftist communist Infiltrader,

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<v Speaker 2>And they called him it because he was deliberately and

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<v Speaker 2>aggressively multicultural. Right to quote from Hinderschott's article, Murrow was

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<v Speaker 2>fiercely patriotic. His America was an inclusive, democratic place in

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<v Speaker 2>which citizens rationally discussed their problems. When Murrow took Sea

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<v Speaker 2>it Now's cameras to Korea for Christmas, in nineteen fifty two,

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<v Speaker 2>he celebrated the sacrifices of the troops. Murrow also made

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<v Speaker 2>a point of picturing an integrated platoon that included not

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<v Speaker 2>only whites and blacks, but also a Chinese American and

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<v Speaker 2>a Korean American, a gesture that surely rubbed some viewers

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong way. Right, and fucking they attack like the

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<v Speaker 2>because the newsletter for Lifelines isn't subject to the fairness doctrine,

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<v Speaker 2>they're able to be really political. And in that newsletter,

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<v Speaker 2>Hunt calls him chow In Cronkite and calls Dan rather

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<v Speaker 2>ho chi rather Right. Again, they are calling these guys

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<v Speaker 2>fucking communists. Back then too, like Walter Cronkite was never

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<v Speaker 2>seen as a totally unbiased and fair man by conservatives.

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<v Speaker 2>They hated him. Just really want to make that point

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<v Speaker 2>as clearly as I can.

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<v Speaker 4>It's so exhausting because and they keep telling us that

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<v Speaker 4>these are the people that we can reach.

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<v Speaker 3>We just got to give them, just give them a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit of more information.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like they have the information, they don't like it,

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<v Speaker 4>they don't want it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they thought Edward R. Murrow was a communist because

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<v Speaker 2>he pointed out that there were fucking Chinese people in

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<v Speaker 2>the US army, right, like, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Had been so for ages.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Chinese asn't been here longer than some of these

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<v Speaker 4>other than Trump's family.

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<v Speaker 2>These people have always hated this kind of shit, right,

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<v Speaker 2>always hated the idea that we're multicultural country and anyone

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<v Speaker 2>who celebrates it, even if they're celebrating it in the

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<v Speaker 2>context of supporting the Korean War. Right, he gets called

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<v Speaker 2>a communist.

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<v Speaker 3>And supporting the troops and like.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, doesn't matter, no communism. So this the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>fucking Hunt goes so crazy after Mureau and it gets

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<v Speaker 2>so pissed about the reaction to the McCarthy hearings gets

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<v Speaker 2>him in trouble. Democratic congressmans start being like, wait a second,

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<v Speaker 2>he's getting like public funding basically for making non partisan media,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is what they're calling non partisan congressman. When

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman points out that Hunts tied to Joseph McCarthy, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's complaints that the fact form is benefiting from its

0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.840
<v Speaker 2>tax free status despite being very biased, and they start

0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.319
<v Speaker 2>being investigations. Lee, his former staffer, was made FCC commissioner

0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.480
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen fifty four, which further upset Democrats who are like, well,

0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.120
<v Speaker 2>now his guy is controlling the FCC, so of course

0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.080
<v Speaker 2>he won't get attacked. Now, what's weird is Lee's actually

0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 2>a really fair minded FCC commissioner. He does a lot

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.240
<v Speaker 2>of stuff that pisses off the right. He's actually like

0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 2>surprisingly good at the job, I think and Hindershott proposes

0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.240
<v Speaker 2>that the whole brujaja does more to make Hunt famous

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.160
<v Speaker 2>as a right wing crank than it does to actually

0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 2>help his shows. Right that like the fact that he's

0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 2>tied to Lee and the fact that like he's like,

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 2>there's this uproar about it, he becomes known as being

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 2>like a crank. Like, it does not spread. He doesn't

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.200
<v Speaker 2>make his his ideas more popular. Now past this point

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.480
<v Speaker 2>because of how many people get pissed off about this,

0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Hunt becomes increasingly famous, right, He's now someone who is

0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.800
<v Speaker 2>known and talked about for his political activism. And he

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>does not like this his stage fright right now because

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>he's got stage fright right, putting himself out there right.

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.560
<v Speaker 2>In fact, like his as a young man, his stage

0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 2>fright is so bad that he wants swallows a bunch

0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.880
<v Speaker 2>of ties to make himself sick to get out of

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.200
<v Speaker 2>giving a speech when he's like a younger businessman. So

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.840
<v Speaker 2>the fact that like the eyes of America are now

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 2>on him and he's being accused of partisan instigation fucks

0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.440
<v Speaker 2>hunt up. And in nineteen fifty six he shuts down

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the Facts Forum to avoid controversy, not because he thinks

0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 2>he's done anything wrong, because he just doesn't like being

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 2>under the gun like that, right, Like he's just anxious.

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:29.440
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, he's a whiss. He does launch immediately another

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 2>series called Answers for American This actually launched, I think

0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.320
<v Speaker 2>a little before the Fact Form quits. It's a public

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.680
<v Speaker 2>service program that's broadcast on twenty two TV stations in

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 2>three hundred and sixty radio stations broadcast live. This was

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 2>a half hour panel discussion on ABC that featured a

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 2>mix of liberals and conservatives. There's your liberal panel and

0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 2>your conservative panel. Repping the left was former Congressman George

0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Combs and New York You professor Charles Hodges. Opposed to

0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>them were William F. Buckley and a rotating guest. If

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 2>you don't know William F. Buckley, he is like the

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 2>proto Ben Shapiro. He's an essayist and a public debater

0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 2>who gets really famous going on TV to debate politely

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>liberals right about the issues of the day. Right, That's

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 2>how he's known, and that he is still to this

0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 2>day like liberal, like centrist liberal democrats. Buckley is like

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>the the ideal of the conservative intellectual. He's one of

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 2>the good ones. Right, He's a he was not, but

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 2>he's like respectable, Like this is how you should do it.

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Look at the respect he always showed the people he

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.200
<v Speaker 2>was debating alongside.

0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Their nostalgia goggles.

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 4>For him is always just like we used to be

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.000
<v Speaker 4>able to have these conversations in peace.

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and when it like, by the way, his son

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.760
<v Speaker 2>is like a major pro degia activist, Like these are

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 2>not polite ever, but yeah, like that's that's his space

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.720
<v Speaker 2>in the American mind. Right now, you can already see

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 2>in the way the show is set up how some

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>of the bias creeps in. This is supposed to be

0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 2>two liberals and two conservatives. Seems non biased. But why

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is one of the conservatives always a rotating Is it?

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe because that makes the conservative seem more dynamic and

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>the liberals seem like it's just these two old hokey

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 2>college professor types. Right, Buckley also is a He's a

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.240
<v Speaker 2>great performer. William F. Buckley's one of the first media

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 2>trained guys who exists. Right and the liberals that Hunt

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.680
<v Speaker 2>picks are not super charismatic figures. As hinders shot rights

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 2>comes did not farewell into the harsh studio lights, and

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.720
<v Speaker 2>although most of the participants chain smoked, it was only

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Combs to whom the smoke seemed to cling in a

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>thick film in his three piece suit with carnation. Butenaiir

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 2>he affused a stereotypical East Coast liberal establishment PERSONA Professor

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Hodges was articulate, but often came across as a cartoonish

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>liberal intellectual or worse, an old wind bag. Buckley spoke

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 2>in easily digestible conservative soundbites such as we would rather

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>die than be enslaved by communism. Right again, you can

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>see the evolution how this is even a little more

0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 2>disguised as non biased while still pushing a very clear

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>ideological line. And this is such a good idea. Fox

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 2>News is going to rip this basic model off decades

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.600
<v Speaker 2>later for their hit show Handity and Colms. The same

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 2>basic premise supplies the esthetic of debate, but with the

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 2>certainty that one side is going to win and the

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>enemy is always going to look like a big stupid dope.

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 2>And you also make sure that the conservative looks, you know,

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 2>like young and put together, while the liberal looks like,

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a nerd. Right, I'm going a photo

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 2>of Hannity and Combs for the viewers, but like Sean Hannity,

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 2>the start of that fullhead of hair, you know, younger

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>guy Combs ball, you know, right. So, in the age

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 2>of social media, this idea reached its final form with

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.200
<v Speaker 2>guys like Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk and I forget the

0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.120
<v Speaker 2>name of the change my mind guy who would go

0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 2>on the college campuses with the you know whatever. Yeah,

0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I forget a fucking yeah. They all got failed marriages

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 2>except for well, no, I guess not. I guess they

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>don't all have failed marriage. It's just that guy. I

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.639
<v Speaker 2>forget his name, but then I don't care to remember it.

0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:09.919
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, and you and in this instead of like

0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.360
<v Speaker 2>you don't even have like the boring hockey professors, now

0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.160
<v Speaker 2>you have like the liberals and left are represented by

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.439
<v Speaker 2>like this carousel of college kids that you pick out

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.920
<v Speaker 2>because they clearly don't have media training and they're not

0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.160
<v Speaker 2>like good at debating with a professional broadcaster on television, right, Like.

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 4>It's like the more septem piercings, the better, speaking as

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:28.639
<v Speaker 4>the septum piercing.

0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Ef ye, are they a little high?

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:30.120
<v Speaker 3>Good?

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Get him in here? Yeah? You know who else is

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:36.760
<v Speaker 2>a little high? The sponsors that support this podcast. You know,

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 2>every single one thing we guarantee is that every advertiser

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>on this show. Just the second I said, just just

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.639
<v Speaker 2>sparked up a fat blunt, every single one of them,

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.159
<v Speaker 2>especially the Washington State Highway Patrol. If you hear that

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>ad you know, the whole Washington State Highway Patrol is

0:17:54.400 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 2>blazing a bone right now, no notes, and we're back

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about the Facts Forum. Well that's dead. And anyway,

0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.720
<v Speaker 2>two years after he kills the Facts for him, Hunt

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 2>starts a new series, Lifeline. Now this is not He's

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 2>not this time. He's not going to try to get

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.000
<v Speaker 2>the tax breaks by being balanced, right, he decides that's

0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.439
<v Speaker 2>not worth, you know, the trouble. So I'm not going

0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.119
<v Speaker 2>to claim that we're not. We don't have like a line. Instead,

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 2>in order to avoid getting in trouble, I'm not going

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 2>to reference political parties or political tendencies at all. I'm

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.960
<v Speaker 2>not going to say the Democrats or the left. I'm

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>not going to say Republicans or the right or conservatism. Instead,

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to have I'm going to have this fucking

0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 2>preacher guy come up here, the Reverend Wayne Poucher, who

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 2>was If you want to know who this guy's background,

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.840
<v Speaker 2>he was a former campaign manager for Strom Therman's successful

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.480
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty four campaign.

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Well he's conservative.

0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Poucher's first just kind of less aggressive than

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Smooth was. Right, He's he speaks more and about religion

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 2>and stuff. He's not talking about the left being evil. Instead,

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 2>he talks about everyone instead of referring to them like

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.360
<v Speaker 2>by their political terms. He calls them the mistaken, and

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 2>he calls the good guys the constructive people. Right, And

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.400
<v Speaker 2>so he gets away from these like fairness standards by

0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:24.640
<v Speaker 2>not talking about the left and the right but talking

0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.199
<v Speaker 2>about the mistaken and the constructive. And he speaks more

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 2>like parables about like right and wrong. And it's very

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.920
<v Speaker 2>clear that he's talking about politics, but he's not using

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 2>political terms, so it kind of slips by right and

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.359
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen Yeah, it's really annoying. Now Hunt does an

0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.160
<v Speaker 2>interview with Playboy in nineteen sixty six where he talks

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 2>about why he's not using why this new lifeline doesn't

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 2>use the term conservative, and why he doesn't like using

0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 2>that as propaganda anymore, and he says conservative is an

0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 2>unfortunate word. It denotes mossback, reactionary and old fogyism, right,

0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:57.880
<v Speaker 2>So I don't want to seem like an old fogy.

0:19:57.960 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just gonna talk about the mistaken and the

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.200
<v Speaker 2>constructive people right now. I think this is a mixed success.

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>This this show is never very wildly popular for like

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.960
<v Speaker 2>legitimate reasons. A lot of people listen because sometimes it's

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.360
<v Speaker 2>the only thing on the air in a lot of areas, right,

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.560
<v Speaker 2>so it gets listeners from that. But it's kind of boring.

0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.960
<v Speaker 2>It sounds much mine. It sounds a lot more boring.

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Smooth was at least exciting. He was aggressive, right, This dude,

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Poucher is like boring, and he mostly talks about God.

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 2>And he ends every broadcast with don't forget to pray.

0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.880
<v Speaker 2>He makes that, he makes that his his his tagline,

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 2>because that means Hunt can claim an exemption on the

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 2>basis of running a religious organization for text purposes. It's

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 2>a good shit, good shit. By all accounts, Lifeline was

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 2>just as conservative as The Facts Forum, but a lot

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.119
<v Speaker 2>more boring because Hunt is scared of pissing people off.

0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Now he's also making a lot of other propaganda. He is,

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 2>by dollar amount, the number one producer of right wing

0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>propaganda in like the fifties through the sixties. He is

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>publishing newspapers too, and magazines, including the newspaper the magazine

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Human Events, which goes on to be pretty popular. He

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 2>has a regular column in that he sells to a

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different newspapers that he writes called Hunt for Truth.

0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh get it, you get it?

0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 3>I hate that. That's a good name. I mean, I

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't watch it, but I know someone's dad.

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Ye.

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 2>So the Nation summarizes the state of his propaganda operation

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty four this way, hl Hunt, in addition

0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 2>to being very probably the richest man in America, is

0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.640
<v Speaker 2>very probably the country's most powerful propagandist for the extreme right.

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>The main vehicle for his brand of conservatism today is Lifeline,

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a radio program originating in Washington, DC and daily reaching

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.800
<v Speaker 2>an estimated audience of five million persons in forty five states.

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.120
<v Speaker 2>It has heard over three hundred and thirty one stations,

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.720
<v Speaker 2>among which are twenty five percent of the nation's clear

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.159
<v Speaker 2>channel outlet. That's a lot just because again there's not

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>much else to put on there, and this is something

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 2>the conservatives will learn from. A lot of where we

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 2>are right now politically is the result of the fact

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>that for years, like twenty some years, liberals kind of

0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 2>ignored talk radio. For the most part. There were a

0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 2>couple attempts to get into it, but the it was

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.520
<v Speaker 2>and it was just assumed that like, well, the fact

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.280
<v Speaker 2>like more people listen and trust like the news and

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, magazines and newspapers and TV news and you know,

0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.800
<v Speaker 2>all of that is more liberal than it is conservative.

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 2>And like talk radio was out there being the only

0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.800
<v Speaker 2>thing in tens of millions of Americans ears for hours

0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 2>as they're commuting driving all across the country. I grew up,

0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I lost and listened so many hundreds hours of Michael

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Savage and Rustling them, all these guys, and it made

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>a really solid core. People wonder like, why is there

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.679
<v Speaker 2>this core of like thirty percent of the country that

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 2>will never reconsider supporting Trump. Oh, let's talk radio is

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.240
<v Speaker 2>a big part of why yeah, and Hunt isn't good.

0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't figure quite out how to make it work

0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.560
<v Speaker 2>that way, but he's the first guy who really realizes

0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 2>why talk radio is valuable and everything that comes after

0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:04.880
<v Speaker 2>is at least influenced by that.

0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 4>And it also shows how the left is always really

0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 4>so supportive of institutions and like the power of institutions

0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.639
<v Speaker 4>that they just won't even make a solid attempt because

0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:20.399
<v Speaker 4>like it was how many years into yeah, yeah, yeah that,

0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 4>like liberals were like, oh, we should have a Joe

0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 4>Rogan thing. It's like a podcasting thing or YouTube and

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.199
<v Speaker 4>then Twitch it's like, oh, we should we should finally

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.360
<v Speaker 4>have someone in this space, and it's like, yeah, tell

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 4>me you invested in such.

0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 2>You can influence people's politics by making them listen to

0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:38.919
<v Speaker 2>a crazy guy for hours. Maybe you should have your

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 2>own crazy asshole that people like to listen to.

0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, or someone entering that work.

0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a big we need a Joe Rogan of

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 2>for fucking the Democratic Party. It just doesn't work that way.

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 2>You're never going to succeed doing that. If you're just like,

0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>let's make our own Democratic Joe, you're always going to fail.

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.240
<v Speaker 2>If that's how you think about it. But what you

0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.320
<v Speaker 2>do need is like fuck and people who are crazy

0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 2>popular that a lot of folks listen to, who are

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 2>talking about politics in a way that is like usable

0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:11.719
<v Speaker 2>to you. And when you see people like that, instead

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>of discarding them and like hating them and running away

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 2>from them, you should try to find ways, like the

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.560
<v Speaker 2>smart strategies to try to find ways to benefit from

0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:23.399
<v Speaker 2>that and to like make them might make that useful

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.239
<v Speaker 2>to you, as opposed to pretending nobody cares about this

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff and they're just assholes talking on the internet. They

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.239
<v Speaker 2>are just assholes talking on the internet. But unfortunately it

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.720
<v Speaker 2>matters right exactly, I say, as an asshole talking on

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the internet, Hey I do it.

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:37.880
<v Speaker 3>That's my full time job on YouTube.

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 4>It's like, I definitely think it's so frustrating because like

0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 4>the right, what it is able to do with having

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 4>so much young talent is really have like a lot

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.399
<v Speaker 4>of hyper visibility in those spaces whereas like you know,

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:54.920
<v Speaker 4>you can only be academic for so long, and it's

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 4>time period where like no one wants.

0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:02.280
<v Speaker 2>To read right exactly now. The Lifeline Advisory board included

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.359
<v Speaker 2>the CEO of Sears, Robert Wood and John Wayne, but

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:09.919
<v Speaker 2>it also hosted several ministers. Yeah, John Wayne, baby, I'm

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:16.720
<v Speaker 2>helping helping to shape the future at top radio. The

0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.120
<v Speaker 2>religious right was not a thing yet in an organized

0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 2>political way. That doesn't start until like the start of

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:26.399
<v Speaker 2>the seventies yet, I mean, yeah, that's not really a

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 2>massive Again, Hunt is going to be one of the

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:30.480
<v Speaker 2>people who helps push that, even though he is not

0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 2>really religious and doesn't really care about that stuff. He

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:36.560
<v Speaker 2>is again one of the earlier conservatives to see, oh

0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.679
<v Speaker 2>you know what if I marry my feelings on tax

0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>policy and like stopping people from voting with all of

0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 2>these like weird religious conservative like bug bears like abortion,

0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I can make those people support my crazy tax shit

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:56.080
<v Speaker 2>and use that as a political weapon too. Right. So

0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:59.159
<v Speaker 2>again Hunt foresees this. He tries to use Christianity to

0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 2>spread his own anti government message. His first wife, Lyda,

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:06.640
<v Speaker 2>dies in the fifties, and after he gets with his well,

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 2>she's not really a wife, but he joins her Baptist church.

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>His pastor, Reverend Chris Well, was a howling reactionary. In

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty, Hunt printed up an anti Catholic sermon chris

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Well had written and handed it out at the DNC

0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:25.639
<v Speaker 2>because JFK is running for president. It included this line,

0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:27.720
<v Speaker 2>the election of a Catholic as president would mean the

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 2>end of religious liberty in America, like you know, the

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>thing that happened. Hunt dedicated numerous columns to Kennedy, who

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:39.960
<v Speaker 2>he warned would sell the nation out to communists and

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 2>or the Pope. His real issue was very funny to me,

0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 2>is that like Moor and Or, he doesn't hate JFK

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 2>because like there, you know, JFK is more of like

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 2>a liberal progressive and he's very conservative. He hates JFK specifically,

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 2>and the Catholic stuff is like he's using that because

0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:00.600
<v Speaker 2>he thinks it'll be useful getting other people to hate JFK.

0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>He hates JFK because JFK supports reviewing the oil depletion

0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Allowance and changing it to end that loophole that lets

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>oil men not pay taxes.

0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:14.160
<v Speaker 4>Right, and there it is, you're gonna say, because it's

0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 4>so hot, and he was like, I can't have that.

0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:21.959
<v Speaker 2>But then it's his only real political issue is the

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 2>oil depletion allowance. Everything else, all the cultural stuff that

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 2>he talks about. I mean, he does believe in the

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:30.719
<v Speaker 2>anti communism, but ninety percent of his propaganda is about

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:34.200
<v Speaker 2>keeping the oil depletion allowance. Everything else, like the working

0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>with the religious right, it's all to protect the oil

0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>depletion allowance because he loves that shit.

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 4>He's like, I can excuse communism, but I draw the

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:44.879
<v Speaker 4>line at my oil allowance, me paying.

0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Taxes per the nation. When Hunt talks of his country's troubles,

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 2>he does not always sound funereal, But when he discusses

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.479
<v Speaker 2>the oil depletion allowance and possible legislative threats to it,

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 2>his face takes on the stricken blankness of one who

0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>has just heard the last trump of depletion allowances for

0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:04.399
<v Speaker 2>all natural resources. He said recently, but without the depletion

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:07.639
<v Speaker 2>allowance for oil, we are utterly ruined. Again, you're the

0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.640
<v Speaker 2>richest man on earth. You would just have to pay taxes.

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 2>He's got some support the roads and stuff. Yeah, he's

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 2>got so many kids. This is why Hunt promptly had

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 2>two hundred thousand reprints of Chris Wall's sermon made and

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 2>mailed out, after which he sat back and hoped to

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:26.679
<v Speaker 2>watch a wave of aroused Protestantism wash Kennedy out of

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:30.200
<v Speaker 2>the running right like that's that's that's at least as

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:34.159
<v Speaker 2>far as the nation is concerned, Like that's what his

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:36.400
<v Speaker 2>goal is here. It doesn't work.

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Sadly Nixon was on the docket.

0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really What happens is this just pisses people off.

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.400
<v Speaker 2>There's a bunch of editorials about like this guy's trying

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to force Kennedy out because he doesn't want to pay taxes,

0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 2>and it just kind of pisses every and and a

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of people get angry that like he's trying to

0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 2>make people hysteric about an anti Catholic. He's trying to

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 2>use it. He's trying to like rustle up a bunch

0:28:57.840 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 2>of anti Catholic bigotry, so who doesn't have to pay

0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 2>tax Like, people recognize this and call it out, and

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 2>it pisses folks off. It draws the Senate's attention again too.

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 2>They point out that like, hey, this flyer you distributed

0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:13.080
<v Speaker 2>the DNC, it's actually a federal crime to distribute anonymous

0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>circulars after the start of a campaign, to influence a

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 2>political campaign in this way, and you did not note

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:21.400
<v Speaker 2>at all who paid for this. You committed a crime.

0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:26.320
<v Speaker 2>There's an uproar, there's a Senate Subcommittee investigation. Hunt just hides,

0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:29.200
<v Speaker 2>like he panics, and he like basically goes on the

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.440
<v Speaker 2>lamb a little bit, and he just pretends he can't

0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:35.440
<v Speaker 2>make the meeting. He's like hiding, So Chris Well has

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 2>to take it on the chin in the Senate Subcommittee

0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>meeting and like actually talk to Congress, and Chris weall

0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>like pretends he doesn't know anything about Hunt's money and stuff.

0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:46.600
<v Speaker 2>When Hunt finally surfaced again, he admits that he paid

0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 2>for the leaflet, but he's like, oh, I didn't do

0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 2>it to hurt JFK. I did it to help lbj's

0:29:51.920 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 2>campaign because I'm really pro LBJ Texas.

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 3>That's all.

0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 2>That's the only reason I did it. He also claimed

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't run away to have being investigated. I

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 2>ran away because I had a book to write for

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 2>the good of the nation. Like I come up with

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 2>that idea of those book that's really going to change everything.

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:10.040
<v Speaker 2>So I was just like writing. I just didn't I

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 2>couldn't make it to Congress. Sorry about that, guys. Now,

0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:14.360
<v Speaker 2>he did write a.

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Book, the forty eight Laws of Power.

0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, forty No, it's even weirder, it's even sillier. So

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen sixty, he publishes his first novel, Alpaca, which

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 2>is a work of right wing utopian fiction. The book

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 2>took place in an ideal society that followed Hunt's plan

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>for a wealth based voting system Hindu Schott describes in

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>his perfect World, political discussion could only take place via

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.840
<v Speaker 2>the printed word. Discussing politics on radio and TV, or

0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 2>speech making before an audience of more than two hundred

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>people was outlawed as inflammatory. It was widely reported that

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Hunt had hired someone to write the romantic parts of Alpaca,

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.440
<v Speaker 2>as he was only interested in the politics. When the

0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>book breaks from political exegesis, we find our right wing

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.520
<v Speaker 2>lovers spouting inane dialogue such as I am putty in

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>your hands. I needed to read this book one of

0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:05.880
<v Speaker 2>these days, Oh my god. Yeah, And there's like a

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:08.680
<v Speaker 2>bunch of cool stuff in there. The book was published

0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>by H. L. Hunt Publishing, a company he had created

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 2>to publish phone books. So just as like a side business,

0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 2>he has a phone book company that he has published

0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:22.160
<v Speaker 2>his shitty novel. That writer for That Nation piece notes

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.479
<v Speaker 2>that by the mid sixties, a lot of Dallas newsmen

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:26.760
<v Speaker 2>had come to believe that Hunt had based the protagonist

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.600
<v Speaker 2>of his shitty novel on an idealized version of himself.

0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 2>And here's one relevant line from the novel, And this

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 2>is about the protagonist. He had burning convictions, but there

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:37.760
<v Speaker 2>were few in al Paka. He told himself who could

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:42.400
<v Speaker 2>agree with him? Right? Like he's this iconic class genius rebel,

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>and other people just don't see how brilliant he is.

0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's very much Hunt thinking of about himself.

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:50.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's like, I got to write someone who's so smart.

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the smartest man alive. The article goes on to

0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>describe the model constitution that Hunt presents in his novel,

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>quote a constitution that gives each person and a quota

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.640
<v Speaker 2>of votes based primarily on how much he pays in taxes.

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 2>There are other ways of getting votes under the Hunt plan.

0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 2>If you are old enough to draw a retirement pay

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:10.800
<v Speaker 2>but refuse to accept it, you get two extra votes.

0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>If you are a government worker and refuse to accept

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:15.560
<v Speaker 2>more than fifty percent of your pay, you get one

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>extra vote. On the other hand, anyone receiving welfare or

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>sick pay from the government gets no vote at all.

0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh, okay, no no one, no.

0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:28.680
<v Speaker 2>No, just rich guys get a lot of votes.

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:31.080
<v Speaker 3>That's crazy.

0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Now. A book reviewer interviewing Hunt says to him after

0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:38.280
<v Speaker 2>reading his book, it's a kind of fascist democracy if

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 2>you get what I mean, and Hunt later in the

0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>interview says, you're the only one who understood what I

0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 2>was getting at. I think it's in reference to another line,

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's it's very telling.

0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.080
<v Speaker 3>He's like, yeah, i'd see me.

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.760
<v Speaker 2>So Hunt sends copies of his stupid book to every

0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>sitting congressman, along with a number of foreign heads of state,

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:01.600
<v Speaker 2>and quote many colleges. He brags that he has a

0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.160
<v Speaker 2>sequel planned which would present an even better constitution, as

0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>long as you could just get a couple of weeks

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.760
<v Speaker 2>to finish it. And he never publishes this book, but

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the working title was your Topia.

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 3>Not Outpacka.

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 2>He does eventually do a sequel to Alpaka, but he

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:22.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't publish your Topia. Great stuff, great, very sixties.

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 4>You have your own publishing house and you still can't

0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 4>finish a second novel.

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Nah, No, man, it's hard. Look, hey, I'm morgan on

0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>that one myself. It's tough. You know what else is hard?

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>It's hard for me when I see people not giving

0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.400
<v Speaker 2>the proper amount of respect and love to the products

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>and services that support this podcast. Why don't we all

0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:47.480
<v Speaker 2>just think about them and how nice they are and

0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:57.280
<v Speaker 2>also listen to their ads for a second. We're back.

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 2>So one of Hunt's dearest beliefs is that letters to

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:04.800
<v Speaker 2>the editor are the part of the paper that people

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:08.600
<v Speaker 2>read most often, but like just skim over the other articles.

0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 2>They want to read letters to the editor because people

0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 2>have a natural curiosity over what other ordinary people have

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:18.080
<v Speaker 2>to say. That's hl Hunt's like most deeply held belief

0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.799
<v Speaker 2>and he's not an ordinary person. But he also thinks

0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:23.480
<v Speaker 2>that if you write a letter to the editor, people

0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:26.680
<v Speaker 2>assume you are. And so for most of his public

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 2>life he's writing like, sometimes more than a dozen letters

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.360
<v Speaker 2>to the editor per day, and he has a small

0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:35.399
<v Speaker 2>army of secretaries who will mimiograph them and will mail

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 2>them to hundreds of newspapers. So he just has like

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 2>a rant about politics or fucking taxes or kids these days,

0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:43.799
<v Speaker 2>and he'll write a letter to the editor and he'll

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>send it to every newspaper he can think of, or

0:34:46.040 --> 0:34:49.000
<v Speaker 2>his secretaries can think of to get it printed. Right.

0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.319
<v Speaker 4>I'm sometimes I'm so glad I don't have money, because

0:34:53.320 --> 0:34:55.880
<v Speaker 4>this is like, this is the impulses of like me

0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:58.320
<v Speaker 4>writing to like teen volk be like, you don't understand

0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 4>the sexiest man in America is not Blake Shelton.

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, d're teen vogue. There are too many states, please

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:09.080
<v Speaker 2>eliminate three. I am not a crank, yeah.

0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.759
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, Hunt, that guy, I'm a hip kid.

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I'm cool. He thinks that like this will

0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:18.319
<v Speaker 2>this will really get Americans, trick them into believing my politics.

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 2>They'll just read all these letters to the editor and

0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:22.799
<v Speaker 2>assume I'm a normal guy, and they won't be able

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:25.880
<v Speaker 2>to they won't be able to catch it. Now, this

0:35:26.000 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 2>leads me to a very funny quote from Heather Hindershot's

0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:32.400
<v Speaker 2>book quote respectable businessmen gave money to the causes in

0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.680
<v Speaker 2>which they believed Hunt wouldn't even give to local Dallas charities,

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:39.400
<v Speaker 2>much less political campaigns. Asked to contribute to diabetes research,

0:35:39.480 --> 0:35:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Hunt responded, as summarized in an FBI memo, that society

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 2>would be better off if persons who were permanently disabled

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:49.320
<v Speaker 2>or physically incapacitated and unable to financially care for themselves

0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:51.280
<v Speaker 2>were let to die rather than to be a burden

0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 2>on society what drink Okay, yeah he.

0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:58.640
<v Speaker 3>Loved he loved Buck v.

0:35:58.760 --> 0:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Bell.

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 3>He was like he sure did.

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, yeah, he's he's like just a just the

0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of piece of shit you would imagine like perfectly.

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 2>So now I will say this is all frustrating, Like

0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:17.280
<v Speaker 2>the fact that he's trying to brute force his horrible,

0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:23.239
<v Speaker 2>genocidal politics into the world is disgusting. And there's like

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 2>there's so many good quotes, like one of the Nation.

0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:28.640
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I'm slow, but I'm the best writer I know.

0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Like he's certain about that, even though again he's not

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:36.880
<v Speaker 2>he's not great, right, Like he's not a particularly good writer.

0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 2>And editors of these newspapers that he's trying to like

0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:43.280
<v Speaker 2>get letters to kind of call him on his bullshit.

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:46.680
<v Speaker 2>One Texas editor told The Nation Hunt earns in one

0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.880
<v Speaker 2>hour about twenty thousand to twelve thousand dollars. That's what

0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:52.319
<v Speaker 2>I earn in a year. He probably spends an hour

0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:54.840
<v Speaker 2>dictating each letter that comes in here. I like to

0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 2>cut them in half because that means I'm putting about

0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.760
<v Speaker 2>five thousand dollars of Hunt money in the waste basket.

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:01.880
<v Speaker 3>Bars.

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love that, Yeah, I love it. That's funny. Yeah.

0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen fifty nine, Hunt started a health food

0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:14.680
<v Speaker 2>and supplement business. Ah, you got it. If you're a

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.279
<v Speaker 2>right wing he's like the first of these though. You know,

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 2>he really is.

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 4>A trailblazer, Like all these bitches are his sons, Like truly.

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:25.359
<v Speaker 2>What's interesting is he invins I didn't realize this. He

0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:28.359
<v Speaker 2>invents the Alex Jones strategy where he has his like

0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 2>right wing propaganda station and he invents a supplement in

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:35.880
<v Speaker 2>health food business and it's the only advertiser on his

0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:40.319
<v Speaker 2>radio show and TV shows, so it exists to sell

0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the products right, right, So the sole advertiser of Lifeline

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.279
<v Speaker 2>is his health products business, and his favorite product is

0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 2>gastro Magic, an anti gas pill that he was so

0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:55.520
<v Speaker 2>proud of. His office is described by that the nation

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>author is basically empty, but there's a plaque in it

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 2>made with the letter from a happy customer being like,

0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:05.480
<v Speaker 2>thank you for making these gas pills. That's like the

0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 2>only decoration he has.

0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 4>He's like, this is my true print and Joy, not

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:10.920
<v Speaker 4>one of my kids.

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:13.120
<v Speaker 2>True bride and Joy, not any of my fifteen kids,

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Fuck those kids.

0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:16.200
<v Speaker 3>This is my only child.

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so fun I want to quote from Heather

0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 2>again because she's gonna line about this. One politician was

0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:25.120
<v Speaker 2>lured to his office expecting a contribution, but left only

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>with an ample supply of Hunt's gastro Magic indigestion pills. Another,

0:38:29.000 --> 0:38:31.720
<v Speaker 2>George Herbert Walker Bush, met with Hunt in nineteen sixty

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>two hoping for a contribution to his congressional campaign. His

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:36.320
<v Speaker 2>heart must have skipped a beat at the end of

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 2>the meeting when Hunt discreetly gave him a bulging and envelope.

0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:41.080
<v Speaker 2>It was filled with Lifeline pamphlets.

0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:44.400
<v Speaker 3>That's funny.

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's so funny.

0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:48.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, that's such a control.

0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 2>He's such a weird crank about his health food business,

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:56.080
<v Speaker 2>which again he's crazy rich from oil. This is not

0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 2>a meaningful amount of money, but it's clearly his passion.

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Like one of the things he's famous for. He drives

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:03.440
<v Speaker 2>himself to work even when he's the richest man alive,

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.839
<v Speaker 2>and he's covered his car in bumper stickers advertising Lifeline

0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:11.160
<v Speaker 2>and like his gastro magic pills, like a crazy man.

0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 2>And he'll he's try because he's like this, will advertise it,

0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:17.560
<v Speaker 2>People will buy it if they see it on my car.

0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:21.160
<v Speaker 2>The Nation notes sometimes he circles the block an extra

0:39:21.200 --> 0:39:24.439
<v Speaker 2>time before parking to let Dallas pedestrians have one more look.

0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:30.200
<v Speaker 2>And he's like making his his his his employees put

0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:31.880
<v Speaker 2>ship on their cars. He's like, no, you got to

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:32.640
<v Speaker 2>help the business.

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:33.440
<v Speaker 3>He's his own.

0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:41.319
<v Speaker 2>He's he's active, like he's like a poor guy. He's

0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:42.320
<v Speaker 2>so funny.

0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:42.960
<v Speaker 3>It's giving.

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:46.320
<v Speaker 5>I'm selling my mixtape out of my trunk, Like what.

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Are God doing right? He's acting like a broke dude

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.239
<v Speaker 2>who gets to do an MLM. It's really funny. And

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:53.880
<v Speaker 2>he's the richest man alive.

0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 5>Like he look like he would be a modern day

0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:01.560
<v Speaker 5>like Hagarly Yeah, m yeah.

0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:02.680
<v Speaker 2>He's a Hunt in the feet.

0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.640
<v Speaker 3>You're feeling a little ghasty right now. Don't worry, guys,

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 3>I got you, I gotcha.

0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:10.520
<v Speaker 5>I have this really great supplement. You would only have

0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:12.839
<v Speaker 5>to subscribe, like, oh, I know, we haven't talked since

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:13.440
<v Speaker 5>high school.

0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:16.839
<v Speaker 2>But literally, and he is he is always when he's

0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:20.279
<v Speaker 2>meeting with people, weirdly who always want his money, he'll

0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:22.760
<v Speaker 2>just start going on these rants about his different products.

0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 2>One attorney who worked with him, he says that like

0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:26.719
<v Speaker 2>as soon as Hunt walks in the room, he runs

0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.120
<v Speaker 2>up and shakes his hand and says very quickly, Hello,

0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I am hl Hunt, the world's richest man. And these

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:35.240
<v Speaker 2>are gastro magic which I make, so they must be good.

0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Try some. It's just like crazy person stuff, dude. So

0:40:43.280 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 2>one of Hunt's kind of downfall moments is that, as

0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I noted, he doesn't like Kennedy, right, he Lifeline attacks him.

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:52.560
<v Speaker 2>He attacks him in his column Hunt for the Truth,

0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:56.200
<v Speaker 2>and he's like trying to drum up like religious hatred

0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to attack him.

0:40:57.400 --> 0:40:57.560
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.520
<v Speaker 2>He's also supporting Barry Goldwater, you know, that's he loves

0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Barry Goldwater. But so unique, as you all know. On

0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:09.920
<v Speaker 2>November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, Bernard Montgomery Sanders shot

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:15.279
<v Speaker 2>President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in Dallas, Texas. Right, And this

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>happens to happen like right after he'd run like a

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:22.359
<v Speaker 2>column and episodes of Lifeline talking about like the need

0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 2>of the Second Amendments so that like people could kill

0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:29.560
<v Speaker 2>government leaders who try to oppress them. So he's just

0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:32.719
<v Speaker 2>put this out and then Kennedy gets shot and the

0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.160
<v Speaker 2>FBI questions him and members of his family. He's like,

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:39.080
<v Speaker 2>if you go into like there's a lot of conspiracies

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>that put Hunt at the center of like the conspiracy

0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:47.239
<v Speaker 2>to kill Kennedy. There's a couple of weird things in there.

0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:51.320
<v Speaker 2>For one thing, the guy who kills Oswald, Jack Ruby,

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 2>had Hunt's name and his address book. Although Ruby doesn't

0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:57.399
<v Speaker 2>seem to have liked Hunt because Ruby was a real

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.600
<v Speaker 2>far right crank and a Hunt is like just in

0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 2>it for his own weird right wing beliefs. So I

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 2>don't think like Ruby doesn't actually like him very much

0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:09.360
<v Speaker 2>because he's not a team player basically. So there's a

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:12.279
<v Speaker 2>lot of allegations, but the family received so many death

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.840
<v Speaker 2>threats from these in fact that like the FBI gives

0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.680
<v Speaker 2>them like a security detail at one point because people

0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:24.040
<v Speaker 2>are so convinced he's involved. He gets weirder and crazier

0:42:24.120 --> 0:42:27.080
<v Speaker 2>as he ages his Dallas I even mentioned this. His

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Dallas home. I think it's in white Rock Lake is

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:33.680
<v Speaker 2>a replica of George Washington's Mount Vernon estate that's five

0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:36.800
<v Speaker 2>times as big. Like that's his house.

0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, no daddy issues up the butt.

0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 2>The mother of all daddy issues. And he's got this

0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:48.799
<v Speaker 2>fucking huge, crazy rich man house with like a billboard

0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:53.759
<v Speaker 2>that he puts on his front lawn for Lifeline, and

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>he has this up in his fancy neighborhood until the

0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.120
<v Speaker 2>neighbors can plain, and at which point he replaces it

0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:02.240
<v Speaker 2>with a crude hand painted sign advertising Lifeline. Oh that's

0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:05.000
<v Speaker 2>the strangest vibes.

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:07.040
<v Speaker 3>Like he's a like you selling lemonade.

0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:10.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now. Despite putting more money into right wing media

0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:15.160
<v Speaker 2>than anyone, Hunt's influence falls rapidly in the late sixties

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:17.960
<v Speaker 2>from its peak in the mid fifties, partly because he

0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:20.239
<v Speaker 2>refuses to work or cooperate with anyone and has no

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:22.880
<v Speaker 2>interest in being part of the conservative movement. As such,

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:27.080
<v Speaker 2>he wants conservatives to agree with him because he tries

0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:29.360
<v Speaker 2>to be a kingmaker. He fancies himself won and he

0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:32.960
<v Speaker 2>becomes a major backer of Barry Goldwater, and when Goldwater

0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:35.719
<v Speaker 2>is just that has the shit kicked out of him.

0:43:35.760 --> 0:43:40.040
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen sixty four. One reason why, according to the media,

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.080
<v Speaker 2>because there's a bunch of articles about like why didn't

0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Goldwater do better? And one reason that's posited by a

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:49.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of pundits is that hl Hunt kind of poisoned

0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:52.000
<v Speaker 2>the campaign right, not just Hunt, because the John Birch

0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Society is also behind Goldwater, and people don't like them.

0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:57.640
<v Speaker 2>But it gets to the point where, according to Heather

0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Hindershot quote, even the rumor of an association with Hunt

0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:03.400
<v Speaker 2>could be damning for a candidate, especially after Hunt was

0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:08.839
<v Speaker 2>investigated in connection with the Kennedy assassination. And yeah, like

0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:13.399
<v Speaker 2>it's it's you know, good stuff. His sons are kind

0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:17.120
<v Speaker 2>of involved in his downfall as a political influencer too.

0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:21.200
<v Speaker 2>His son, Bunker Hunt, had financed a John Birch Society

0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:24.480
<v Speaker 2>newsletter that had attacked Kennedy in really vicious terms and

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:29.399
<v Speaker 2>was made a lot of people suspicious, and then one

0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:32.520
<v Speaker 2>of Jack Ruby's friends. The reason why Ruby had Hunt's

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:34.799
<v Speaker 2>name is that he had approached Lamar Hunt to try

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to get a job in a bowling alley that Hunt owned.

0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>So his fail sons are part of why he stops

0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 2>becoming as influential. His attempts to co opt Christianity for

0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:50.319
<v Speaker 2>his own ends are also way too clumsy to work

0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:53.279
<v Speaker 2>very well. His daughter June, who later becomes like an

0:44:53.280 --> 0:44:57.640
<v Speaker 2>influential Christian media figure, even attacks him for his hypocrisy

0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:01.440
<v Speaker 2>and constant cheating. As the story goes, Hunt kind of

0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 2>snaps back at her, I'm not Christian, I don't have

0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:06.120
<v Speaker 2>to go by Christian ethics, and then he sends her

0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:10.080
<v Speaker 2>ass to boarding school. When his other daughter, Swanee, makes

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:13.800
<v Speaker 2>similar complaints about his womanizing, he tells her King Solomon

0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:16.200
<v Speaker 2>had seven hundred wives and that's in the Bible.

0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:17.320
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:22.160
<v Speaker 2>So great guy, great parent, good job. As the seventies

0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Dawn Hunts in his eighties. He continues to wear the

0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.800
<v Speaker 2>same blue suit every day, but he only dry cleans

0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the pants to save money, so eventually the top and

0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:34.919
<v Speaker 2>bottom are totally different colors. Such a freak.

0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:40.040
<v Speaker 4>He doesn't have to live like this, literally, Such an

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:42.319
<v Speaker 4>odd guy.

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.239
<v Speaker 2>So his son Hassey, who he talked about, never recovers

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 2>from that mental break. He's ill and Hunt spends Hunt

0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:50.040
<v Speaker 2>keeps his He's the only of his children that Hunt

0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:52.759
<v Speaker 2>has a picture of in his office, I think, because

0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:54.920
<v Speaker 2>he feels really bad about this, and he spends a

0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:58.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of his life desperately but incompetently trying to help

0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Passy to get better. The nation rights Hunted sought various

0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 2>magic cures for the boy. One day, the answer was valium,

0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the next prostitutes. Finally, a lobotomy took the edge off

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of Hassie's violent fits, but just a bit so just

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:17.200
<v Speaker 2>a great dad, just so, just a great dad. Triple threat,

0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:22.520
<v Speaker 2>triple threat father. He develops increasingly strange health beliefs as

0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:25.960
<v Speaker 2>he aged and became an almost religious advocate of creeping.

0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:27.799
<v Speaker 2>Svie's going to show you a picture of this, because

0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:30.600
<v Speaker 2>anytime anyone asked him, he would get down to demonstrate

0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:33.960
<v Speaker 2>this exercise technique that he's fallen in love with that's

0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:36.560
<v Speaker 2>basically a crab walk. He gets down on his knees

0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 2>and his hands and knaves and just like walks across

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the ground. He fucking And there's like there's like a

0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:46.920
<v Speaker 2>weird kind of like yoga component to it, Like he

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:48.839
<v Speaker 2>must have found this in some book or another. But

0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 2>he is obsessed with creeping. The New York Times quotes

0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 2>him as saying creeping is probably the second best exercise

0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:58.440
<v Speaker 2>in the world, next to swimming. It's perfect.

0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:03.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh all right, he's a creeper. He's a super creeper.

0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, fucking he loves creeping. He lives in his

0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:12.440
<v Speaker 2>last years with his second family in that Mount Vernon

0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:14.920
<v Speaker 2>home or third family I think actually, and he spends

0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time promoting health foods. He's got like

0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:21.840
<v Speaker 2>a vegetable garden, on his property and he eats mainly

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.080
<v Speaker 2>these along with he has like a very weird diet.

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.319
<v Speaker 2>He's a lot of just like bleon cubes, I think,

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:31.919
<v Speaker 2>just like straight like flavor. So he's a freak. He's

0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:36.680
<v Speaker 2>a weirdo cool guy. Now, as I noted, his sons,

0:47:36.800 --> 0:47:41.560
<v Speaker 2>especially Nelson Bunker Hunt, are real anti strong anti communist.

0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Is Bunker is going to be a big George Wallace

0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:48.719
<v Speaker 2>supporter and a fascist like he's a real hardcore segregation

0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:54.280
<v Speaker 2>as fascist, giant piece of shit. Hunt also supports Governor

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Wallace's campaign, but he dies on November twenty ninth, nineteen

0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:00.280
<v Speaker 2>seventy four. At the time of his death is as

0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:02.920
<v Speaker 2>valued at two billion dollars, which is split between his

0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:06.920
<v Speaker 2>two surviving ex wives, fifteen children, and many grandchildren. There

0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:12.400
<v Speaker 2>are years of probate battles, I'm sure. As a note

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.319
<v Speaker 2>about his shitty ass sons, you should know one of

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:19.800
<v Speaker 2>his sons, Lamar Hunt, founds the AFL, the American Football League,

0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.520
<v Speaker 2>and he's a major figure in professional tennis and soccer

0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:26.120
<v Speaker 2>in the US. So that's where the AFL comes. And

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:28.239
<v Speaker 2>I want to quote from Hinderschot's article One last Time,

0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Herbert and Bunker Hunt had been caught attempting to corner

0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:34.719
<v Speaker 2>the world silver market. Could the crooks really have thought

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:36.920
<v Speaker 2>that no one would notice an ongoing attempt to purchase

0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.480
<v Speaker 2>all the silver in the world. They were also entangled

0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:42.520
<v Speaker 2>in a wire tapping caper. It's wire tapping over like

0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.279
<v Speaker 2>their dad's. Like this is as a result of like

0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:49.879
<v Speaker 2>the fight for over, like his will and probate. Wow,

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:54.680
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, Bunker is a hugely successful oil man. He's

0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:58.240
<v Speaker 2>becomes a major John Birch donors with his oil money

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:02.240
<v Speaker 2>he helped, Like his company finds oil deposits in Libya

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and I think Pakistan. I think they're also involved in

0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Saudi Rabied it like they are a lot of like

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:09.799
<v Speaker 2>Arab oil in Middle Eastern oil, like his company is

0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:14.440
<v Speaker 2>involved in like getting the rights to and selling. He

0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:16.680
<v Speaker 2>also gives a quarter of a million dollars in cash

0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:20.240
<v Speaker 2>in a briefcase to George Wallace as a rainy day fund.

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.960
<v Speaker 2>And he tries to bribe Curtis LeMay to become Wallace's

0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:27.640
<v Speaker 2>running mate, or he puts up like a trust fund

0:49:27.760 --> 0:49:30.799
<v Speaker 2>to convince Lamay to become Wallace's running mate. So he

0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:33.960
<v Speaker 2>just loves all of the worst fascist Bunker Hunt giant

0:49:33.960 --> 0:49:39.160
<v Speaker 2>piece of shit. So yeah, that's the end of Hunt's life.

0:49:39.640 --> 0:49:43.239
<v Speaker 2>One of his long he's probably his biggest ongoing contributions

0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:47.320
<v Speaker 2>to popular culture is that Bunker Hunt is such a giant,

0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:50.239
<v Speaker 2>famous piece of shit for all of his criminal activity

0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and weird business activity and oil money that he inspires.

0:49:54.960 --> 0:50:00.759
<v Speaker 2>The show Dallas. Dallas is based off of the Hunts. Yes, Jr.

0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Is based off of Bunker Hunt. Oh damn Like heavily

0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:08.319
<v Speaker 2>based off of Bunker Hunt, right, in part because he

0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:11.239
<v Speaker 2>gets in trouble for committing a bunch of crimes. Right, Yeah,

0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:13.000
<v Speaker 2>so at least we get to show Dallas.

0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 3>You know, I'll take it. Who'sha Jr. Was very big

0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 3>for our parents.

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Bernie Sanders, by the way, did a lot of

0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:23.400
<v Speaker 2>people don't know that anyway? Princess, how are you feeling

0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:24.520
<v Speaker 2>at the end of these episodes?

0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:30.080
<v Speaker 4>I feel a great There's nothing like knowing the origins

0:50:30.080 --> 0:50:33.040
<v Speaker 4>of the war crimes that are being put out into

0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:33.719
<v Speaker 4>the world every day.

0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's good. Yeah, war crimes, crimes against truth,

0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 2>all this good stuff.

0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:41.680
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for all of that amazing effort.

0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:43.080
<v Speaker 3>This was a great three part thank you.

0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Part of We're just happy to have you here, you know,

0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:49.759
<v Speaker 2>happy to have you here talking about this real piece

0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:52.279
<v Speaker 2>of shit and his strange beliefs about the.

0:50:52.200 --> 0:50:56.160
<v Speaker 4>World at his strange pills and his strange fifteen children.

0:50:56.760 --> 0:50:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:50:58.000 --> 0:50:59.880
<v Speaker 5>Anything you want to plug at the end to your princess?

0:51:00.200 --> 0:51:05.279
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, just if you want to see some other funyappers.

0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:06.680
<v Speaker 3>I have a YouTube channel.

0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:10.720
<v Speaker 4>I talk about poulp culture, history, all kinds of fun things.

0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:13.680
<v Speaker 3>And just happy to be here. Thank you guys so

0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:14.400
<v Speaker 3>much for having me.

0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Excellent sweet thanks for coming along everybody. Yeah, all right, folks,

0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:21.200
<v Speaker 2>we're done.

0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:22.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna go.

0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Pet dogs, bye bye.

0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:31.160
<v Speaker 5>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:51:31.280 --> 0:51:33.960
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0:51:34.000 --> 0:51:37.200
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0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:41.080
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0:51:57.440 --> 0:52:02.279
<v Speaker 5>forty percent of you. Statistically, speaking