1 00:00:14,036 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 1: Push it. Hey, So, a couple of weeks ago, a 2 00:00:22,036 --> 00:00:25,116 Speaker 1: friend sent me a text that included a new art 3 00:00:25,116 --> 00:00:27,716 Speaker 1: project that's going up in the South Side of Chicago. 4 00:00:28,076 --> 00:00:31,396 Speaker 1: It's bye, I remember, it's by an artist named Tanika Johnson. 5 00:00:31,636 --> 00:00:34,556 Speaker 1: It's called Inequity for Sale and right, I immediately forward 6 00:00:34,596 --> 00:00:38,276 Speaker 1: it to you. Yeah. Yeah, it's basically calling out how 7 00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:41,876 Speaker 1: black people had their homes stolen from them legally through 8 00:00:42,076 --> 00:00:45,036 Speaker 1: these predatory lending schemes back in the day. Yeah. Yeah, 9 00:00:45,036 --> 00:00:46,796 Speaker 1: These landmarks are going to go in front of ten 10 00:00:46,876 --> 00:00:49,596 Speaker 1: or fifteen houses on the South Side that have been 11 00:00:50,076 --> 00:00:52,716 Speaker 1: legally stolen as the sign says, yeah, And it just 12 00:00:52,716 --> 00:00:56,476 Speaker 1: felt it felt so perfect for us. It's it's art, 13 00:00:56,716 --> 00:01:00,356 Speaker 1: but it's art that exposes injustice. It's art that's political. 14 00:01:00,676 --> 00:01:03,756 Speaker 1: It's art that's demanding change. You know, I immediately wanted 15 00:01:03,796 --> 00:01:09,876 Speaker 1: to talk about this. Let's do it. I'm Khalil Gibran 16 00:01:09,996 --> 00:01:13,676 Speaker 1: Muhammad and I'm Ben Austin. We're two best friends, one black, 17 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:17,516 Speaker 1: one white. I'm a historian and I'm a journalist. This 18 00:01:17,556 --> 00:01:20,596 Speaker 1: is some of my best friends are in this show. 19 00:01:20,636 --> 00:01:23,676 Speaker 1: We wrestle with the challenges and the absurdities in a 20 00:01:23,796 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: deeply divided and unequal country. And in this episode, we're 21 00:01:27,756 --> 00:01:30,716 Speaker 1: going to learn from two amazing artists who challenge us 22 00:01:30,716 --> 00:01:33,036 Speaker 1: to see the world as it is. Yeah. Their art 23 00:01:33,116 --> 00:01:36,756 Speaker 1: is both in museums and also in the streets of Chicago. Yep, 24 00:01:36,876 --> 00:01:39,716 Speaker 1: we're going to art school, folks. Let's go get your 25 00:01:39,716 --> 00:01:54,516 Speaker 1: palette only. Yeah. So you met up with Tanica, right, yeah, yeah, 26 00:01:54,516 --> 00:01:56,876 Speaker 1: to learn more about her work, to learn more about 27 00:01:56,956 --> 00:01:59,796 Speaker 1: Inequity for Sale. I went to her home a couple 28 00:01:59,756 --> 00:02:03,516 Speaker 1: of weekends ago and we drove around the neighborhood. Yeah. 29 00:02:03,556 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 1: She lives in Englewood, right, Yeah, she lives in Englewood 30 00:02:05,996 --> 00:02:08,956 Speaker 1: on the South side of Chicago, which is where these signs, 31 00:02:09,196 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: these these placards are going to go as well. Follow 32 00:02:12,676 --> 00:02:17,916 Speaker 1: me so you can listen in my car. Tunika is amazing. 33 00:02:17,956 --> 00:02:23,556 Speaker 1: She's so generous to do this. She has this humility 34 00:02:23,596 --> 00:02:26,316 Speaker 1: that I think actually disguises just sort of how bad 35 00:02:26,316 --> 00:02:29,956 Speaker 1: ass she is and the amazingness of her work. Yeah. Yeah, 36 00:02:29,996 --> 00:02:32,116 Speaker 1: because she's been she's been actually doing a lot of 37 00:02:32,956 --> 00:02:36,116 Speaker 1: other activities, including organizing in that same community exactly. She's 38 00:02:36,116 --> 00:02:38,796 Speaker 1: a community organizer, she's a photographer. She's done other our 39 00:02:38,836 --> 00:02:41,676 Speaker 1: projects that have really captured my attention. And you know, 40 00:02:41,716 --> 00:02:44,916 Speaker 1: this neighborhood of Englewood, where she lives and works is 41 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:47,236 Speaker 1: a really important one as well. I mean it's been 42 00:02:47,676 --> 00:02:53,556 Speaker 1: kind of at the center of how Chicago is described 43 00:02:53,636 --> 00:02:58,356 Speaker 1: as a violent city, precisely because of the level of 44 00:02:58,356 --> 00:03:01,556 Speaker 1: community violence in Inglewood in particular. Yeah. Yeah, in an 45 00:03:01,596 --> 00:03:03,996 Speaker 1: earlier episode, you and I talked about Cabrini Green, this 46 00:03:04,116 --> 00:03:07,876 Speaker 1: public housing development being sort of like this mythological place, 47 00:03:08,356 --> 00:03:11,756 Speaker 1: and Englewood has sort of filled that void in Chicago. 48 00:03:11,956 --> 00:03:15,356 Speaker 1: It sort of exists in this realm of like horror stories. Yeah. 49 00:03:15,396 --> 00:03:17,556 Speaker 1: It's also not that far from from where we grew up. 50 00:03:17,596 --> 00:03:19,316 Speaker 1: I mean it's just a little bit west west where 51 00:03:19,316 --> 00:03:21,076 Speaker 1: we grew up, a little west, a little bit south. 52 00:03:21,116 --> 00:03:22,916 Speaker 1: There was a ten minute drive from my place, but 53 00:03:22,996 --> 00:03:24,996 Speaker 1: it might as well be light years away because it's 54 00:03:25,036 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: a community that's been devastated by loss, by divestment. We 55 00:03:29,356 --> 00:03:32,316 Speaker 1: stop on one of these streets and it's a block 56 00:03:32,356 --> 00:03:34,276 Speaker 1: that has three of these homes that were sold on 57 00:03:34,396 --> 00:03:38,996 Speaker 1: land sale contracts. And listen, man, there's like an empty lot, 58 00:03:39,676 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 1: there's a boarded up home. There's a really nice home 59 00:03:42,756 --> 00:03:45,276 Speaker 1: that has a fence and being taken care of. Next 60 00:03:45,276 --> 00:03:48,316 Speaker 1: to it as a vacant lot, there's a boarded up 61 00:03:48,356 --> 00:03:51,076 Speaker 1: home and so you see crazy. It's crazy in terms 62 00:03:51,076 --> 00:03:53,036 Speaker 1: of like lot by lot, what's going. Yeah, you see 63 00:03:53,076 --> 00:03:56,996 Speaker 1: the devastation, you see the abandonment, you see really the 64 00:03:57,996 --> 00:04:00,996 Speaker 1: absence of people too, because you know, the population in 65 00:04:01,076 --> 00:04:03,876 Speaker 1: Englewood has dropped from something like ninety seven thousand in 66 00:04:03,916 --> 00:04:06,916 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties to twenty four thousand today. So there's 67 00:04:06,956 --> 00:04:09,676 Speaker 1: been black flight from this community. And you see it 68 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:15,356 Speaker 1: there too. This home right here, he's burnt up one 69 00:04:16,396 --> 00:04:20,316 Speaker 1: that's some land sale contract home. This is actually one 70 00:04:20,356 --> 00:04:23,356 Speaker 1: that's going to be in the project as well. So 71 00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:26,556 Speaker 1: the project that she's referring to there, she's putting up 72 00:04:26,636 --> 00:04:30,076 Speaker 1: these landmarks in the community, in the neighborhood. She's going 73 00:04:30,156 --> 00:04:32,476 Speaker 1: to start with about ten of them or fifteen of them. 74 00:04:32,676 --> 00:04:36,796 Speaker 1: And you know there are these signs. They're they're yellow 75 00:04:36,796 --> 00:04:39,356 Speaker 1: in this bright yellow and she said, she said, it's 76 00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:41,676 Speaker 1: supposed to be a caution sign. It's like the yellow 77 00:04:41,676 --> 00:04:44,916 Speaker 1: of a caution sign. And they say this home at 78 00:04:44,996 --> 00:04:49,076 Speaker 1: sixty eight twenty three South Aberdeen was legally stolen from 79 00:04:49,116 --> 00:04:52,796 Speaker 1: black couple mister and missus James and Lula Malone on 80 00:04:52,916 --> 00:04:57,556 Speaker 1: October thirtieth, nineteen sixty three, in a widespread land sale 81 00:04:57,676 --> 00:05:03,236 Speaker 1: contracts scam. Yeah, that's just so powerful. And you know, 82 00:05:03,316 --> 00:05:07,756 Speaker 1: these land sale contract scams were a predatory markets set 83 00:05:07,836 --> 00:05:11,036 Speaker 1: up to target black people by speculators who basically sold 84 00:05:11,036 --> 00:05:14,876 Speaker 1: them homes on a layaway plan, literally like they were 85 00:05:14,876 --> 00:05:18,396 Speaker 1: set up to make payments. They never earned equity in 86 00:05:18,396 --> 00:05:21,956 Speaker 1: the home until the final payment was made. And often 87 00:05:21,996 --> 00:05:25,676 Speaker 1: these land speculators who were involved in this scheme would 88 00:05:25,676 --> 00:05:30,636 Speaker 1: deliberately sabotage black people by making payments disappear or pretending 89 00:05:30,676 --> 00:05:32,916 Speaker 1: as if they didn't receive them. And so lots of 90 00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:35,556 Speaker 1: people lost their homes this way, and yet the speculators 91 00:05:35,596 --> 00:05:38,436 Speaker 1: made thousands and thousands of dollars on black people. Yeah, 92 00:05:38,476 --> 00:05:40,516 Speaker 1: what makes an equity for sales so amazing is that 93 00:05:40,556 --> 00:05:45,916 Speaker 1: Tanika researches these homes. She finds who lived there and 94 00:05:46,076 --> 00:05:49,476 Speaker 1: when their homes were stolen from them. So I was 95 00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:51,116 Speaker 1: just looking at that data set and I was like, 96 00:05:51,276 --> 00:05:55,076 Speaker 1: they are all around me. That's crazy. And so now 97 00:05:55,076 --> 00:05:56,796 Speaker 1: that you see the block that I was living on, 98 00:05:58,316 --> 00:06:02,756 Speaker 1: it was so many vacant homes. This is the data 99 00:06:02,836 --> 00:06:05,276 Speaker 1: that she's talking about that. You know, there was a 100 00:06:05,756 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 1: Duke study originally I think it was, it was in 101 00:06:08,036 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. It was the plunder of Black wealth in Chicago. Yeah, 102 00:06:11,236 --> 00:06:13,356 Speaker 1: I remember. I remember that. I because one of the 103 00:06:13,396 --> 00:06:17,596 Speaker 1: major guys is a reparations scholar named Sandy Daretty a Duke. Yes, 104 00:06:17,716 --> 00:06:20,156 Speaker 1: I did remember that, you know. And so they started 105 00:06:20,196 --> 00:06:24,956 Speaker 1: looking into the effects of these land sale contracts, and 106 00:06:25,316 --> 00:06:27,636 Speaker 1: you know, Tanika got interested in this, and she asked 107 00:06:27,636 --> 00:06:30,636 Speaker 1: whether she could actually see the homes, the specific data 108 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:32,916 Speaker 1: to track it right down to the street level, and 109 00:06:32,956 --> 00:06:35,076 Speaker 1: they were like yeah, And so she is working with 110 00:06:35,156 --> 00:06:38,596 Speaker 1: researchers and others to find these and now they've put 111 00:06:38,636 --> 00:06:41,716 Speaker 1: together this list, a map that shows each of the homes, 112 00:06:41,916 --> 00:06:44,356 Speaker 1: and so we're just driving around and she's like, there's 113 00:06:44,396 --> 00:06:46,756 Speaker 1: five on this block, there's three on this block, a 114 00:06:46,796 --> 00:06:49,676 Speaker 1: couple blocks over, and it seems like they're in clusters, 115 00:06:49,716 --> 00:06:52,356 Speaker 1: but they're also all over the place. Okay. So, so 116 00:06:52,396 --> 00:06:55,156 Speaker 1: in the in the nineteen fifties, in the nineteen sixties 117 00:06:55,396 --> 00:06:59,956 Speaker 1: in particular, you know, black people could not get mortgages. 118 00:07:00,036 --> 00:07:03,156 Speaker 1: They couldn't get federally back mortgages. Yeah, exactly. And you 119 00:07:03,196 --> 00:07:08,476 Speaker 1: know why because in the nineteen thirties, when the federal 120 00:07:08,716 --> 00:07:12,956 Speaker 1: government decided to support homeownership, because of the Great Depression, 121 00:07:12,996 --> 00:07:15,956 Speaker 1: homes weren't being built. There was a massive housing shortage. 122 00:07:16,316 --> 00:07:20,436 Speaker 1: The government basically took the discrimination the private market that 123 00:07:20,476 --> 00:07:24,116 Speaker 1: had already existed and enshrined it in new federal policy. 124 00:07:24,196 --> 00:07:26,436 Speaker 1: White people got to buy homes because the federal government 125 00:07:26,476 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 1: said black people were too much of a risk in 126 00:07:28,756 --> 00:07:32,876 Speaker 1: most places, and therefore they use this color coded scheme 127 00:07:33,556 --> 00:07:38,636 Speaker 1: where red was used as the designation for black people 128 00:07:39,196 --> 00:07:41,356 Speaker 1: in the areas of the city where they live, like 129 00:07:41,396 --> 00:07:44,636 Speaker 1: the whole South Side of segregated Chicago. Like if you 130 00:07:44,636 --> 00:07:48,276 Speaker 1: look at a historical map, it's redlined. Yeah. So the 131 00:07:48,316 --> 00:07:51,876 Speaker 1: federal government and then banks lenders are justifying this by 132 00:07:51,916 --> 00:07:56,436 Speaker 1: saying this is a risky loan and it's essentially entire 133 00:07:56,716 --> 00:07:59,476 Speaker 1: black communities that you're you pointed out. You know, people 134 00:07:59,556 --> 00:08:04,636 Speaker 1: often think about this era of redlining or now land 135 00:08:04,996 --> 00:08:09,356 Speaker 1: sale contracts as a predatory lending moment in a little 136 00:08:09,356 --> 00:08:12,116 Speaker 1: bit of abstraction, right, But one of the things that 137 00:08:12,156 --> 00:08:16,236 Speaker 1: the Duke's study pointed out is that four billion dollars 138 00:08:16,716 --> 00:08:21,756 Speaker 1: was pluillion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I said four billion. Yeah, 139 00:08:21,796 --> 00:08:23,236 Speaker 1: I was just I wanted other people to hear that, 140 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:26,596 Speaker 1: like crazy, right, So four billion dollars is taken out 141 00:08:26,596 --> 00:08:30,556 Speaker 1: of the black community, talk about theft over a twenty 142 00:08:30,596 --> 00:08:34,036 Speaker 1: year period, two decades in the fifties and sixties, and 143 00:08:34,036 --> 00:08:36,956 Speaker 1: and so you know, the estimates are that upwards of 144 00:08:36,996 --> 00:08:40,116 Speaker 1: seventy five percent of all homes purchased by black people 145 00:08:40,116 --> 00:08:43,796 Speaker 1: in Chicago were on land sale contracts, purchased in quotes, 146 00:08:43,836 --> 00:08:47,116 Speaker 1: because you're not really purchasing it. The reason that I 147 00:08:47,316 --> 00:08:52,996 Speaker 1: picked this specific block is so people can see how 148 00:08:53,036 --> 00:08:59,436 Speaker 1: it changes, how it changed this block today, like literally 149 00:09:00,076 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 1: an abandoned home and two vacant lots are on this 150 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:11,836 Speaker 1: block because of that period, and having vacant lots and 151 00:09:11,876 --> 00:09:15,716 Speaker 1: abandoned homes on your block depreciates the value of the 152 00:09:15,796 --> 00:09:19,796 Speaker 1: people who live here. And now these communities where there's 153 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:24,116 Speaker 1: so much abandonment and vacant lots are often you know, 154 00:09:24,316 --> 00:09:28,596 Speaker 1: understood by the outside world as the evidence of black 155 00:09:28,596 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 1: pathology and dysfunction. And black people don't care about their neighborhoods. 156 00:09:31,716 --> 00:09:34,356 Speaker 1: And that's what's so powerful, not only about the data set, 157 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:38,116 Speaker 1: but also Tanka bringing the story to life in this 158 00:09:38,316 --> 00:09:41,796 Speaker 1: art project. Yeah, and driving around with her, it was unmistakable. 159 00:09:42,076 --> 00:09:46,916 Speaker 1: What makes crime even like profitable is when you have 160 00:09:47,196 --> 00:09:50,236 Speaker 1: an environment where you don't have traffic, where you don't 161 00:09:50,276 --> 00:09:53,556 Speaker 1: have people watching you, Like that's a key to a 162 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:58,316 Speaker 1: successful crime business. If you don't have any eyes on you, 163 00:09:58,836 --> 00:10:01,796 Speaker 1: then that means you could do whatever it is you're doing. 164 00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:08,436 Speaker 1: In these blocks that don't have homes lived in and 165 00:10:08,516 --> 00:10:16,116 Speaker 1: have vacant lots, that's the perfect scene for anybody who's 166 00:10:16,156 --> 00:10:19,316 Speaker 1: crime involved. Yeah, So this art project, Inequity for Sale 167 00:10:19,396 --> 00:10:21,596 Speaker 1: is fascinating, and it's just it's just I wish I 168 00:10:21,636 --> 00:10:24,756 Speaker 1: were there with you in Tanka. But looking at one 169 00:10:24,796 --> 00:10:27,316 Speaker 1: of the signs and seeing up close, I mean, she's 170 00:10:27,476 --> 00:10:32,996 Speaker 1: calling out one that it's legal, this predatory land sale scam, 171 00:10:33,116 --> 00:10:36,316 Speaker 1: like like like people could do this legally, but she 172 00:10:36,436 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: calls it a crime and she wants people to know 173 00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:41,876 Speaker 1: that a crime happened here and no one has been 174 00:10:41,876 --> 00:10:44,956 Speaker 1: punished for it. And and she said that they're they're 175 00:10:45,036 --> 00:10:48,876 Speaker 1: painted bright yellow, which isn't a typical color for a landmark. 176 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:52,356 Speaker 1: She said, it's it alerts you to danger, that's what 177 00:10:52,436 --> 00:10:54,996 Speaker 1: it typically does. And there's an image at the top 178 00:10:55,036 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 1: of these of essentially like a man running off with 179 00:10:57,796 --> 00:11:00,916 Speaker 1: a bag of money, you know, a representation of theft, right, 180 00:11:01,276 --> 00:11:05,476 Speaker 1: and then also a piece of me, not even a piece, 181 00:11:05,516 --> 00:11:08,876 Speaker 1: a huge chunk of me was just getting pissed off, 182 00:11:09,476 --> 00:11:15,996 Speaker 1: like like I was just imagining being my family. Like, man, 183 00:11:16,076 --> 00:11:18,556 Speaker 1: if I found out my family was stolen from, I'd 184 00:11:18,556 --> 00:11:23,636 Speaker 1: want someone to pay, like, you know, because I just 185 00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:28,156 Speaker 1: thought about the fact that it's literally because my grandmother 186 00:11:28,316 --> 00:11:33,596 Speaker 1: purchased the house that I grew up in that I 187 00:11:33,676 --> 00:11:38,276 Speaker 1: was able to even like have that kind of stability, 188 00:11:38,676 --> 00:11:40,636 Speaker 1: you know. I'll just point out that that Tanika is 189 00:11:40,676 --> 00:11:43,956 Speaker 1: working with a large group of people. There's a designer 190 00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:49,196 Speaker 1: for the plaque ards and historians and researchers, and on 191 00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:51,116 Speaker 1: the back of the plaque ards, on the back of 192 00:11:51,116 --> 00:11:53,956 Speaker 1: the sign, there's a map of the neighborhood where you 193 00:11:53,956 --> 00:11:56,676 Speaker 1: can see the hundred homes in Englewood that were land 194 00:11:56,676 --> 00:11:59,356 Speaker 1: sale contracts, so you can understand this history, the scale, 195 00:11:59,476 --> 00:12:02,396 Speaker 1: the scale and enormity. There's a QR code where you 196 00:12:02,396 --> 00:12:04,916 Speaker 1: can sort of, you know, see all this information and 197 00:12:05,076 --> 00:12:07,956 Speaker 1: a link to a website which tells it's fast history. 198 00:12:08,036 --> 00:12:11,196 Speaker 1: So it exists within a larger context. It's like the 199 00:12:11,236 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 1: anti citizen app, right, because you know, those are apps 200 00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:17,316 Speaker 1: that basically warn people to stay out of neighborhoods like Inglewood, 201 00:12:17,676 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: you know, And here it is saying like you need 202 00:12:20,076 --> 00:12:23,356 Speaker 1: to be warned by this system of oppression and the 203 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:26,156 Speaker 1: air that we all breathe because of it. So there's 204 00:12:26,156 --> 00:12:28,436 Speaker 1: one other thing that's on these landmarks that is really 205 00:12:28,476 --> 00:12:31,836 Speaker 1: important to point out, and it's both explaining it as 206 00:12:31,996 --> 00:12:34,556 Speaker 1: art and I think as activism. At the bottom of 207 00:12:34,596 --> 00:12:38,076 Speaker 1: the landmarks that says, this crime was never brought to justice. 208 00:12:38,716 --> 00:12:42,396 Speaker 1: Reparations are due, I know, right, reparations that I do 209 00:12:42,556 --> 00:12:46,116 Speaker 1: that is so powerful. Yeah, And Tanika, when I asked her, like, well, 210 00:12:46,116 --> 00:12:49,316 Speaker 1: what reparations, she said, listen, I'm the artist. There are 211 00:12:49,316 --> 00:12:51,076 Speaker 1: other people who are going to help figure this out. 212 00:12:51,396 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 1: She didn't necessarily have prescriptive ideas. She did say that 213 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:58,836 Speaker 1: she hoped that maybe the community would own one of 214 00:12:58,836 --> 00:13:00,956 Speaker 1: these homes and turn it into a community center and 215 00:13:01,116 --> 00:13:04,356 Speaker 1: art center, but she talked about this more. My goal 216 00:13:04,556 --> 00:13:08,556 Speaker 1: and hope is that this project will encourage or challenge 217 00:13:08,556 --> 00:13:13,676 Speaker 1: people to think about reparations differently or maybe just different 218 00:13:13,676 --> 00:13:18,076 Speaker 1: than what they have been told it can and should be. 219 00:13:18,876 --> 00:13:22,676 Speaker 1: But just a way to repair the damage that has 220 00:13:22,676 --> 00:13:27,916 Speaker 1: been done and bring to justice something for these families, 221 00:13:28,196 --> 00:13:35,716 Speaker 1: but specifically the larger community because this this crime impacted 222 00:13:35,796 --> 00:13:41,436 Speaker 1: those families as well as their neighbors, the entire neighborhood. 223 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:46,156 Speaker 1: And that's the ripple effect of systemic injustice. It doesn't 224 00:13:46,196 --> 00:13:50,516 Speaker 1: just harm the individual it was perpetrated on, it harms 225 00:13:50,636 --> 00:13:53,956 Speaker 1: everyone around them. Yeah, it's just so fascinating as an 226 00:13:53,996 --> 00:13:56,996 Speaker 1: our project because you know, I can imagine some people 227 00:13:57,036 --> 00:13:58,876 Speaker 1: listening like is this really art? I mean, did she 228 00:13:58,996 --> 00:14:01,596 Speaker 1: just design these activist signs and put them in this 229 00:14:01,596 --> 00:14:04,276 Speaker 1: neighborhood to call attention to the need for reparations. I 230 00:14:04,316 --> 00:14:08,236 Speaker 1: think that's a fair question. So art that exposes a 231 00:14:08,396 --> 00:14:12,396 Speaker 1: history of justice that makes people see it in a 232 00:14:12,396 --> 00:14:15,876 Speaker 1: new fresh way, and then also calls for change in 233 00:14:15,876 --> 00:14:18,716 Speaker 1: the world, tries to catalyze something, tries to bring something 234 00:14:18,716 --> 00:14:21,196 Speaker 1: else about and we could and we, you know, to 235 00:14:21,276 --> 00:14:26,836 Speaker 1: be fair to her. The signs are material object like 236 00:14:27,076 --> 00:14:31,276 Speaker 1: a photograph, like a painting, like a sculpture, and so 237 00:14:31,516 --> 00:14:34,796 Speaker 1: you know, she's engaging in a form of art practice 238 00:14:34,836 --> 00:14:38,876 Speaker 1: and expression that carries this weight and an intervention in 239 00:14:38,916 --> 00:14:41,036 Speaker 1: a community. I mean, it's in the neighborhood. It's not 240 00:14:41,076 --> 00:14:43,476 Speaker 1: in a gallery, it's not in a museum. They're in 241 00:14:43,476 --> 00:14:48,236 Speaker 1: the neighborhood where the scam happened and where she wants 242 00:14:48,236 --> 00:14:51,036 Speaker 1: to bring about change. In fact, with all of that, 243 00:14:51,116 --> 00:14:53,396 Speaker 1: you might even ask the question, I mean, where's the line. 244 00:14:53,396 --> 00:14:54,876 Speaker 1: Where do you draw the line? Yeah? Where is the 245 00:14:54,916 --> 00:14:58,316 Speaker 1: line between art and activism? And and you know, we 246 00:14:58,396 --> 00:15:00,676 Speaker 1: talked about this and immediately we thought of another artist 247 00:15:00,676 --> 00:15:04,116 Speaker 1: to bring into this conversation. Amanda Williams. Yeah, yeah, I 248 00:15:04,116 --> 00:15:06,756 Speaker 1: can't wait to talk to her. She's awesome. Amanda also 249 00:15:06,836 --> 00:15:09,356 Speaker 1: does art on the South Side of Chicago. She's put 250 00:15:09,396 --> 00:15:12,716 Speaker 1: up art in those very same neighborhoods in Englewood. Yeah, yeah, man, 251 00:15:12,916 --> 00:15:14,556 Speaker 1: is great. I'm so happy that we're going to be 252 00:15:14,556 --> 00:15:16,556 Speaker 1: talking to her. She's going to have a lot to 253 00:15:16,556 --> 00:15:18,476 Speaker 1: say to help us think about this question of the 254 00:15:18,516 --> 00:15:20,756 Speaker 1: line between art and activism. I couldn't think of anyone 255 00:15:20,876 --> 00:15:23,876 Speaker 1: smarter about this topic, about about thinking about what can 256 00:15:23,996 --> 00:15:45,356 Speaker 1: art do as far as correcting injustices. Amanda Williams, Hey, Hey, Austin, 257 00:15:45,876 --> 00:15:50,196 Speaker 1: how are you? Thank you for being my friends? Are yes, yes, 258 00:15:50,356 --> 00:15:53,836 Speaker 1: we are so excited. This is a huge honor. So 259 00:15:53,916 --> 00:15:58,556 Speaker 1: your art project. Colored Theory took abandoned homes in Englewood, 260 00:15:58,556 --> 00:16:02,596 Speaker 1: the same neighborhood that Tanika lives in, and you painted them. 261 00:16:02,676 --> 00:16:05,396 Speaker 1: You you, you gave them love, You made them stand 262 00:16:05,436 --> 00:16:08,236 Speaker 1: out in these dramatic ways. And the color as you 263 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:13,516 Speaker 1: chose where you could say culturally relevant colors. Um, it 264 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:16,396 Speaker 1: was stunning. How light have you been? She she painted 265 00:16:16,396 --> 00:16:21,636 Speaker 1: the home Carold Chicken Chicken Shay Crown Royal. Yeah, like 266 00:16:22,836 --> 00:16:28,756 Speaker 1: that's right, I mean culturally relevant. Come, I love it? Like, 267 00:16:29,996 --> 00:16:32,356 Speaker 1: what is the color? It's like, Sian, is that what 268 00:16:32,436 --> 00:16:41,036 Speaker 1: it is? No, it's ultrachine. You've been hanging out with 269 00:16:41,076 --> 00:16:45,996 Speaker 1: me too much, all right, if you want, if you 270 00:16:45,996 --> 00:16:50,636 Speaker 1: want to technically, it's it's a turquoiscious green side of science. 271 00:16:50,756 --> 00:16:53,436 Speaker 1: You know. I was just trying to give a little 272 00:16:53,476 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 1: bit of context to our listener who may not know 273 00:16:56,196 --> 00:17:01,356 Speaker 1: what ultracine is. And Harold's Chicken Shack is read right 274 00:17:01,396 --> 00:17:04,316 Speaker 1: for the listening audience, brilliant color of red. Yes, so 275 00:17:04,596 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 1: we grew up on Harold's Chicken in Chicago. It's a franchise. 276 00:17:08,476 --> 00:17:14,116 Speaker 1: It's known or it's mild sauce, which is red. Khalil 277 00:17:14,196 --> 00:17:16,236 Speaker 1: and I have both seen pieces of that work and 278 00:17:16,396 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: museums here in Chicago and at the moment in New York. 279 00:17:19,236 --> 00:17:23,796 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, you're that our project was picked 280 00:17:23,836 --> 00:17:26,836 Speaker 1: as like one of the twenty five most significant works 281 00:17:26,836 --> 00:17:30,796 Speaker 1: of architecture posts in the post war era. I mean 282 00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:34,716 Speaker 1: that's incredible. That's a huge post war You've been commissioned 283 00:17:34,716 --> 00:17:38,276 Speaker 1: with another artist to make the Shirley Chisholm sculpture in 284 00:17:38,436 --> 00:17:41,916 Speaker 1: Prospect Park. Correct, And you did this Ted talk about 285 00:17:42,036 --> 00:17:45,196 Speaker 1: color theory, and my daughter listened to it in our 286 00:17:45,196 --> 00:17:49,076 Speaker 1: our classes and that's something all the students did. That's black. 287 00:17:51,556 --> 00:17:55,956 Speaker 1: You're touching lives. So, Amanda, we've been talking about Tanika 288 00:17:56,036 --> 00:18:00,276 Speaker 1: Johnson's work and specifically Inequity for Sales, and you know, 289 00:18:00,356 --> 00:18:03,756 Speaker 1: we want to hear you talk about art as activism 290 00:18:03,756 --> 00:18:05,476 Speaker 1: and what that means. And you know that we've been 291 00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:07,996 Speaker 1: wrestling with this question in terms of Tanika's work of like, 292 00:18:08,396 --> 00:18:10,996 Speaker 1: you know, what what role can art play and bringing 293 00:18:11,036 --> 00:18:13,676 Speaker 1: about social change. I'm so glad that you guys are 294 00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:17,436 Speaker 1: having this conversation because is actually one I've been having 295 00:18:17,476 --> 00:18:21,676 Speaker 1: by myself but had then started to have with Tanika. 296 00:18:21,716 --> 00:18:25,676 Speaker 1: I think her prior project folded map is one of 297 00:18:25,716 --> 00:18:29,916 Speaker 1: the most brilliant things I've ever seen, and really, I 298 00:18:29,956 --> 00:18:32,076 Speaker 1: would say is the closest thing I've seen is something 299 00:18:32,076 --> 00:18:35,036 Speaker 1: that really emerges art and whatever way you want to 300 00:18:35,036 --> 00:18:38,276 Speaker 1: define it, high art, community art, low art, you know, 301 00:18:38,316 --> 00:18:41,516 Speaker 1: whatever metric you want to use, and an idea about 302 00:18:41,556 --> 00:18:46,476 Speaker 1: activism and maybe even policy and social change. Even more so, 303 00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:49,116 Speaker 1: I would say than color theory. So I did color 304 00:18:49,196 --> 00:18:52,356 Speaker 1: theory from twenty fourteen to I think about twenty sixteen. 305 00:18:52,436 --> 00:18:55,276 Speaker 1: The totality of the work, the conception of it, the 306 00:18:55,316 --> 00:18:57,956 Speaker 1: production of the painting of the houses, and then the 307 00:18:57,996 --> 00:19:01,876 Speaker 1: photographing of that and then presenting that documentation. And so 308 00:19:02,156 --> 00:19:05,996 Speaker 1: something like colored theory starts to help you see the 309 00:19:06,076 --> 00:19:09,716 Speaker 1: residue of redlining. So it helps you understand that these 310 00:19:09,756 --> 00:19:12,836 Speaker 1: things that were done to maps in the nineteen thirties 311 00:19:12,836 --> 00:19:15,436 Speaker 1: and forties to decide who could get a loan and 312 00:19:15,436 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 1: who couldn't, and who could live where and who couldn't. 313 00:19:18,036 --> 00:19:19,876 Speaker 1: Though you can feel it if you're from an area 314 00:19:19,956 --> 00:19:23,116 Speaker 1: like this, you can literally see it, because the vacancy 315 00:19:23,356 --> 00:19:26,636 Speaker 1: is so strange and odd, but we've normalized it. So 316 00:19:26,676 --> 00:19:30,756 Speaker 1: then when they became the very saturated, it looks like Arkansas. Yeah, 317 00:19:30,796 --> 00:19:32,756 Speaker 1: people don't know how rural that that parts of the 318 00:19:32,756 --> 00:19:35,516 Speaker 1: south Side look because there's so much abandonment, abandonment that 319 00:19:35,516 --> 00:19:38,476 Speaker 1: that homes have been clear that the isolation. Yeah, and 320 00:19:38,516 --> 00:19:41,236 Speaker 1: so it really was this kind of oddity where you're like, 321 00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:44,876 Speaker 1: is that where is that? It's like that is sixteenth 322 00:19:44,876 --> 00:19:46,676 Speaker 1: in state? Is where that is? That is right in 323 00:19:46,716 --> 00:19:48,556 Speaker 1: the heart of the city. This is not the outliers 324 00:19:48,756 --> 00:19:51,596 Speaker 1: or you know, this is this is a demonstration of 325 00:19:51,596 --> 00:19:57,076 Speaker 1: what it looks like when entities benefit from systemic ways 326 00:19:57,116 --> 00:19:59,836 Speaker 1: in which people have been isolated and segregated. And so 327 00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:03,796 Speaker 1: the saturation that kind of the out of context use 328 00:20:03,836 --> 00:20:06,476 Speaker 1: of those colors. On the one hand, you know, it's 329 00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:10,356 Speaker 1: it's a pink house, right, it's a flame in hots 330 00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:13,756 Speaker 1: orange house. You know, like the starkness of that compared 331 00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:17,196 Speaker 1: to that empty landscape was something that got people's attention, 332 00:20:17,316 --> 00:20:21,076 Speaker 1: even living in those areas of neighborhoods. And so I 333 00:20:21,156 --> 00:20:22,876 Speaker 1: think for me, I thought it was just going to 334 00:20:23,076 --> 00:20:27,596 Speaker 1: kind of highlight literally the oddity of this geography. One 335 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:29,916 Speaker 1: we would cut the lawn and cut down that kind 336 00:20:29,956 --> 00:20:34,236 Speaker 1: of overgrown brush, me being my husband, and so people 337 00:20:34,276 --> 00:20:36,116 Speaker 1: were like, you guys, did you guys buy the house. 338 00:20:36,156 --> 00:20:37,636 Speaker 1: It was like no, It's like do you own the house? 339 00:20:37,676 --> 00:20:39,796 Speaker 1: It's like no, did your cousin live there? No, So 340 00:20:39,876 --> 00:20:42,676 Speaker 1: just the showing of some kind of love to a 341 00:20:42,716 --> 00:20:46,356 Speaker 1: structure that everybody had kind of cast off for dead 342 00:20:46,956 --> 00:20:49,116 Speaker 1: also was very striking to people. And I didn't expect 343 00:20:49,196 --> 00:20:51,356 Speaker 1: that because they had not used to anybody caring for 344 00:20:51,436 --> 00:20:54,516 Speaker 1: anything for no reason, and so these are the things 345 00:20:54,596 --> 00:20:58,476 Speaker 1: people connected with, and so it gave value to something 346 00:20:58,516 --> 00:21:01,156 Speaker 1: that had been deemed valueless. And people felt that and 347 00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:04,396 Speaker 1: they felt a kind of appreciation that I didn't seem 348 00:21:04,436 --> 00:21:07,436 Speaker 1: to have some alternate agenda. Khalil and I have been 349 00:21:07,436 --> 00:21:10,636 Speaker 1: trying to figure out this relationship between art and activism, 350 00:21:10,636 --> 00:21:12,516 Speaker 1: and really this question on the art side of like 351 00:21:12,956 --> 00:21:16,636 Speaker 1: what can art actually do to bring about change? So 352 00:21:16,756 --> 00:21:20,996 Speaker 1: I like to always kind of dispel some romanticized myth 353 00:21:21,076 --> 00:21:24,476 Speaker 1: that this work like change the community or I came 354 00:21:24,556 --> 00:21:28,996 Speaker 1: in and I transformed what the possibilities of Inglewood are 355 00:21:29,596 --> 00:21:33,196 Speaker 1: is asking what can this do right now with what 356 00:21:33,236 --> 00:21:36,476 Speaker 1: we have instead of trying to change everything? So is 357 00:21:36,476 --> 00:21:39,316 Speaker 1: it equally impactful that like one person came and did 358 00:21:39,356 --> 00:21:42,436 Speaker 1: something they'd never done before and they felt empowered. Is 359 00:21:42,436 --> 00:21:44,876 Speaker 1: that more or less empowering than if I get the 360 00:21:44,956 --> 00:21:48,756 Speaker 1: aldermen to I don't know, change some street sign law 361 00:21:48,836 --> 00:21:50,716 Speaker 1: or something I don't know, right, So, in terms of 362 00:21:50,836 --> 00:21:54,996 Speaker 1: scales of participation and activism, where does it fall on 363 00:21:55,036 --> 00:21:58,676 Speaker 1: that it's a catalyst. That's where I operate a catalysts. 364 00:21:58,676 --> 00:22:00,996 Speaker 1: I'm trying to just spark something that somebody else will do. 365 00:22:01,276 --> 00:22:03,596 Speaker 1: I love what you just said about art as a catalyst, 366 00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:06,596 Speaker 1: and so you know, I want to circle back to 367 00:22:06,676 --> 00:22:09,396 Speaker 1: Tanika's work and this project Inequity for Sale. I mean, 368 00:22:09,396 --> 00:22:12,596 Speaker 1: it seems to me this is so perfectly in conversation 369 00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:14,916 Speaker 1: with the work you've already done. Yeah, and I think 370 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:18,916 Speaker 1: this newest work then literally pinpointing, she's like taking a 371 00:22:19,036 --> 00:22:22,276 Speaker 1: Yahoo map with those points as she's brought it to 372 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,876 Speaker 1: physical life, with these stanchions that sit so that you 373 00:22:25,916 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 1: can visually see the kind of ubiquity of how many 374 00:22:30,276 --> 00:22:35,396 Speaker 1: people were victims of this situation, but also physically then 375 00:22:36,356 --> 00:22:39,236 Speaker 1: understanding why a landscape looks a certain way. This is 376 00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:42,916 Speaker 1: stuff that reparations can come about for. This is official apologies, 377 00:22:43,516 --> 00:22:46,796 Speaker 1: This is accountability. This is bringing people that don't believe 378 00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:49,396 Speaker 1: this is a problem to the physical space. So for me, 379 00:22:49,476 --> 00:22:53,036 Speaker 1: the ability for this as a visual kind of creative 380 00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:57,636 Speaker 1: art form to then have clear potential impact in an 381 00:22:57,676 --> 00:23:00,676 Speaker 1: activist sense is super clear in a way that I 382 00:23:00,716 --> 00:23:04,876 Speaker 1: think most artists operating today that would call themselves social 383 00:23:04,876 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 1: practice or social artists. It is a little fluff, you know, 384 00:23:08,916 --> 00:23:12,436 Speaker 1: a little bit. There's no you can't you know, if 385 00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:15,516 Speaker 1: it's a science experiment, you couldn't recreate it. This you 386 00:23:15,596 --> 00:23:18,796 Speaker 1: can recreate is an accountability. I mean, I know a 387 00:23:18,836 --> 00:23:20,756 Speaker 1: great deal of what draws me to your work or 388 00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:23,956 Speaker 1: Tanika's work is that it is actually on the streets. 389 00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:26,076 Speaker 1: It's in the neighborhood, and it's not in a museum, 390 00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:30,076 Speaker 1: and literally there that's where the practice is happening. And 391 00:23:30,396 --> 00:23:32,196 Speaker 1: what does it mean to be in those spaces? What 392 00:23:32,236 --> 00:23:34,716 Speaker 1: does it mean in terms of the audience that you reach, 393 00:23:35,156 --> 00:23:38,396 Speaker 1: in terms of the goals and the effect. Yeah, when 394 00:23:38,396 --> 00:23:42,076 Speaker 1: I'm making art that's engaged in an area where people 395 00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:45,356 Speaker 1: maybe don't really even care about art, then what am 396 00:23:45,396 --> 00:23:47,356 Speaker 1: I doing it for? And how do I make sure 397 00:23:47,436 --> 00:23:50,516 Speaker 1: that it is having the same residence? And so part 398 00:23:50,516 --> 00:23:53,996 Speaker 1: of that also is an equality or an understanding of like, 399 00:23:54,196 --> 00:23:57,276 Speaker 1: I'm not coming to like impart some knowledge or some wisdom, 400 00:23:57,396 --> 00:24:00,876 Speaker 1: or I'm not coming from on high to enlighten. It's like, no, 401 00:24:00,996 --> 00:24:03,476 Speaker 1: I have a question, and I can have a different 402 00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:06,436 Speaker 1: conversation and get different kinds of answers when I can 403 00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:10,316 Speaker 1: have that question with people from the neighborhood I grew 404 00:24:10,396 --> 00:24:13,836 Speaker 1: up in, or I can have with my classmates at 405 00:24:13,876 --> 00:24:16,156 Speaker 1: Cornell or lab or where you know, wherever these other 406 00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:18,636 Speaker 1: moment or wherever these other spaces that I exist in. 407 00:24:19,156 --> 00:24:22,756 Speaker 1: And so for me, the challenge is always making sure 408 00:24:22,796 --> 00:24:25,156 Speaker 1: the work is true to whatever that audience is and 409 00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:30,316 Speaker 1: also expansive enough so that I'm not assuming what the 410 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:32,556 Speaker 1: audience might or might not be able to receive. So 411 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:36,356 Speaker 1: that's pretty complicated in addition everything we've talked about. But 412 00:24:36,716 --> 00:24:39,276 Speaker 1: you know, you've been part of this exhibition of other 413 00:24:39,396 --> 00:24:42,756 Speaker 1: architects and designers, and you know the title of that 414 00:24:42,876 --> 00:24:47,876 Speaker 1: show was Reconstructions, Architecture and Blackness, and and you know, 415 00:24:48,476 --> 00:24:51,676 Speaker 1: your particular contribution not only is very much about this 416 00:24:51,756 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: history of redlining, but it's also about how black people 417 00:24:55,076 --> 00:24:59,716 Speaker 1: defied the boundaries that were prescribed for them. And you know, 418 00:24:59,756 --> 00:25:02,756 Speaker 1: you have this amazing poem where you describe blackness in 419 00:25:02,836 --> 00:25:06,156 Speaker 1: so many configurations and contradictions. I mean, it's just it's 420 00:25:06,196 --> 00:25:10,796 Speaker 1: basically like black doesn't follow the rules period, right, because 421 00:25:10,796 --> 00:25:15,156 Speaker 1: the rules weren't met for us correct to begin with. 422 00:25:15,716 --> 00:25:21,156 Speaker 1: That is correct, So why are you worried about following 423 00:25:21,196 --> 00:25:24,596 Speaker 1: them or not following them? So Mama published a book 424 00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:28,556 Speaker 1: of this show that Stephanie and I saw last year, 425 00:25:28,756 --> 00:25:31,956 Speaker 1: right when the museum reopened. They're ten artists featured in 426 00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:35,676 Speaker 1: this show. Every artist was given a commission to create 427 00:25:36,276 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: a work of an object of futurity, of a vision 428 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:43,796 Speaker 1: of blackness that could be both historically rooted and future oriented, 429 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:45,556 Speaker 1: or could be all about the future. But it's just 430 00:25:45,596 --> 00:25:48,076 Speaker 1: an incredible show. And in the catalog for the show, 431 00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:51,036 Speaker 1: which I am holding right now in my hand, in 432 00:25:51,156 --> 00:25:55,556 Speaker 1: your essay, the middle of your essay, there is a 433 00:25:55,596 --> 00:25:58,756 Speaker 1: page in the book that is literally upside down, like 434 00:25:58,836 --> 00:26:01,196 Speaker 1: you cannot read the left side and go to the 435 00:26:01,276 --> 00:26:03,556 Speaker 1: right side. You have to turn the book right side 436 00:26:03,636 --> 00:26:06,396 Speaker 1: up in order to finish the page. What's up with that? 437 00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:09,676 Speaker 1: Because because why do you need to read the book 438 00:26:09,716 --> 00:26:11,956 Speaker 1: the right way? This was another fight I was the 439 00:26:12,036 --> 00:26:14,756 Speaker 1: problem sild with the designers. It's like I want you 440 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:16,596 Speaker 1: to be able to turn the book upside down and 441 00:26:16,636 --> 00:26:18,996 Speaker 1: read it backwards. So everybody go get a copy and 442 00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:22,356 Speaker 1: then turn the book upside down, and my essay reads 443 00:26:22,396 --> 00:26:26,556 Speaker 1: perfectly backwards and forwards and thinking of Tannika's work, which 444 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:29,836 Speaker 1: is very much future thinking. So you do this show, 445 00:26:29,916 --> 00:26:34,076 Speaker 1: you help to coordinate, you're like the lead artist that 446 00:26:34,236 --> 00:26:37,716 Speaker 1: helps to bring all of this together to MoMA, and 447 00:26:38,036 --> 00:26:40,836 Speaker 1: you issue a manifesto. I wanted you to talk about 448 00:26:40,876 --> 00:26:44,156 Speaker 1: the manifesto because I think that's in direct conversation with 449 00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:47,396 Speaker 1: Tannika and thinking about the future and what is old. Well, 450 00:26:47,396 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 1: I want to take full credit. Sean Anderson and Mabel 451 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:53,756 Speaker 1: Wilson were the curators that really have the vision. But 452 00:26:53,876 --> 00:26:57,156 Speaker 1: this is the first show at Moment, one of the 453 00:26:57,196 --> 00:27:01,556 Speaker 1: first shows ever that directly contends with an idea about 454 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:06,156 Speaker 1: architecture and blackness. So we developed this group called the 455 00:27:06,156 --> 00:27:09,436 Speaker 1: Black Reconstruction Collective, made of the original ten of us 456 00:27:09,476 --> 00:27:13,636 Speaker 1: that were an exhibition, and so this group was basically 457 00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:17,316 Speaker 1: going to say, we refuse this idea that we have 458 00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:19,676 Speaker 1: to make the work in this way that we can't 459 00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:21,796 Speaker 1: advocate for ourselves, and we send it back to Moment, 460 00:27:21,836 --> 00:27:23,996 Speaker 1: and this starts a storm of a legal department and 461 00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:27,276 Speaker 1: the someone's department to developed department, And so then we 462 00:27:27,396 --> 00:27:30,876 Speaker 1: understood a kind of power and collectivity that we knew intuitively, 463 00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:33,036 Speaker 1: but we didn't really understand how big of a deal 464 00:27:33,076 --> 00:27:34,836 Speaker 1: this was going to be. And so then we had 465 00:27:34,876 --> 00:27:37,556 Speaker 1: to stand firm on this idea that we need to 466 00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:41,916 Speaker 1: formulate an entity that doesn't allow this to happen again 467 00:27:41,996 --> 00:27:44,356 Speaker 1: to anybody else that looks like us. And we want 468 00:27:44,356 --> 00:27:46,676 Speaker 1: to be a steward of making sure that other people 469 00:27:46,676 --> 00:27:49,596 Speaker 1: that want to have ideas about black people in space 470 00:27:50,316 --> 00:27:52,396 Speaker 1: don't have to deal with this part of it. I 471 00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:56,476 Speaker 1: want to read just two sentences from the manifesting statement, 472 00:27:57,196 --> 00:27:59,516 Speaker 1: because I remember seeing it on the wall and I 473 00:27:59,596 --> 00:28:02,476 Speaker 1: thought to myself, this may be one of the most 474 00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:07,156 Speaker 1: radical things I've read anywhere, let alone entering a gallery 475 00:28:07,196 --> 00:28:09,916 Speaker 1: of an elite art museum. And so here's here's just 476 00:28:09,956 --> 00:28:12,756 Speaker 1: two sentences from the second paragraph. You guys write, the 477 00:28:12,836 --> 00:28:17,196 Speaker 1: Black Reconstruction Collective commits itself to continuing this work of 478 00:28:17,276 --> 00:28:22,076 Speaker 1: reconstruction in Black America and these United States. We take 479 00:28:22,156 --> 00:28:26,716 Speaker 1: up the question of what architecture can be not a 480 00:28:26,716 --> 00:28:31,876 Speaker 1: tool for imperialism and subjugation, not a means for aggrandizing 481 00:28:32,036 --> 00:28:37,436 Speaker 1: the self, but a vehicle for liberation and joy, and 482 00:28:37,756 --> 00:28:42,516 Speaker 1: that it's just so so much encapsulates Tanka's work and 483 00:28:42,676 --> 00:28:46,636 Speaker 1: your work of liberation and joy enjoy and so many 484 00:28:46,676 --> 00:28:48,956 Speaker 1: of the other artists who appeared in that show. We 485 00:28:49,116 --> 00:28:51,996 Speaker 1: are we are just blown away by you, your work, 486 00:28:52,956 --> 00:28:56,676 Speaker 1: all that you have done and will do. Thank you. 487 00:28:57,676 --> 00:29:18,196 Speaker 1: This has been a huge honor. I'm so excited for 488 00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:22,036 Speaker 1: Tanika's work. It actually it actually launches this month, November 489 00:29:22,036 --> 00:29:25,196 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. So some of my best friends are 490 00:29:25,796 --> 00:29:29,516 Speaker 1: is breaking news here for these landmarks to be all 491 00:29:29,556 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 1: over the place in Englewood, and you know, to point 492 00:29:32,596 --> 00:29:36,196 Speaker 1: out this this injustice that has happened, to bring attention 493 00:29:36,276 --> 00:29:39,156 Speaker 1: to this theft of property, and you know, to help 494 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:42,036 Speaker 1: us think about what might come next. What do you 495 00:29:42,076 --> 00:29:45,236 Speaker 1: do with this information? Well, I mean again, what Amanda 496 00:29:45,396 --> 00:29:48,356 Speaker 1: so graciously embraced is that there's all kinds of ways 497 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:52,836 Speaker 1: to express things. And it can be abstract in the 498 00:29:52,996 --> 00:29:58,076 Speaker 1: kind of painting something in colors that evoke redlining, which 499 00:29:58,116 --> 00:30:01,476 Speaker 1: was all about different colors of which homes deserved support 500 00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:05,236 Speaker 1: and financing which homes didn't. And in Tanika's work there 501 00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:10,676 Speaker 1: is this you know, invitation to passers by to come 502 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:14,276 Speaker 1: and learn something about what they're actually seeing through this 503 00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:17,396 Speaker 1: art expression, through these landmarks, through these signs. It's just 504 00:30:17,516 --> 00:30:21,956 Speaker 1: it's just I learned so much and also so inspired 505 00:30:21,996 --> 00:30:26,636 Speaker 1: by how how much artists play a role in teaching 506 00:30:26,716 --> 00:30:30,276 Speaker 1: us and telling the truth about the society we live in. Yeah. Yeah, 507 00:30:30,316 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 1: I love that their work is in conversation with our hometown, 508 00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:37,196 Speaker 1: with our city of Chicago, with journalism, with history. You know, 509 00:30:37,236 --> 00:30:40,116 Speaker 1: it's fabulous. So yeah, yeah, I'm glad we got to 510 00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:42,916 Speaker 1: talk about this and look at it. That's right, and 511 00:30:43,116 --> 00:30:45,676 Speaker 1: I think we should. We should definitely nominate them to 512 00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:48,396 Speaker 1: be some of our best friends. Oh man, they're they're 513 00:30:48,396 --> 00:30:52,876 Speaker 1: already in right, all right, man, love you, love you too. 514 00:30:59,316 --> 00:31:01,796 Speaker 1: Some of My Best Friends Are is a production of 515 00:31:01,876 --> 00:31:05,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. The show is written and hosted by me 516 00:31:05,596 --> 00:31:09,836 Speaker 1: Khalildebrod Muhammad and my best friend Ben Austin. It's produced 517 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:14,236 Speaker 1: by Sheriff Vincent and edited by Karen Shakerji. Our engineer 518 00:31:14,356 --> 00:31:19,036 Speaker 1: is Martin Gonzalez, our associate editor is Keishell Williams. Our 519 00:31:19,076 --> 00:31:23,716 Speaker 1: associate producer is Lucy Sullivan, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. 520 00:31:24,716 --> 00:31:28,316 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Leta Molad and Mia La Belle. 521 00:31:28,836 --> 00:31:32,836 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Tanka Lewis Johnson and Amanda Williams Man. 522 00:31:32,836 --> 00:31:35,996 Speaker 1: They are both fantastic artists from the South Side of Chicago. 523 00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:38,276 Speaker 1: We are so happy to have learned from them and 524 00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:41,516 Speaker 1: to be in conversation with them, and also special thanks 525 00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:45,196 Speaker 1: to the National Public Housing Museum, where Tanka is an 526 00:31:45,276 --> 00:31:48,996 Speaker 1: artist as instigator. We're ready for our next class at 527 00:31:48,996 --> 00:31:53,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin thanks to Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, John Schnars, and 528 00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:57,196 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. Our theme song, Little Lily is by Fellow 529 00:31:57,236 --> 00:32:01,156 Speaker 1: Chicago and AVERYR. Young from his amazing album Tubman. You 530 00:32:01,156 --> 00:32:03,276 Speaker 1: will definitely want to check out more of his music 531 00:32:03,316 --> 00:32:07,196 Speaker 1: at his website averyar Young dot com. You can find 532 00:32:07,236 --> 00:32:10,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin on all social platforms at Pushkin Pods, and you 533 00:32:10,756 --> 00:32:14,036 Speaker 1: can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot fm. 534 00:32:14,036 --> 00:32:18,076 Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, 535 00:32:18,236 --> 00:32:22,036 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen. If you 536 00:32:22,116 --> 00:32:24,476 Speaker 1: love Some of My Best Friends Are and any of 537 00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:29,516 Speaker 1: the other shows from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 538 00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:34,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 539 00:32:34,716 --> 00:32:38,196 Speaker 1: and uninterrupted listening for four dollars and ninety nine cents 540 00:32:38,196 --> 00:32:53,036 Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. 541 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:11,156 Speaker 1: And so next time I'm home, Harold's Chicken on me? 542 00:33:11,356 --> 00:33:15,636 Speaker 1: Which which one? You have to say the number? But 543 00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:18,996 Speaker 1: you know what, that's funny because I don't actually remember. 544 00:33:19,196 --> 00:33:22,036 Speaker 1: I don't remember the one on fifty third? What's what's 545 00:33:22,036 --> 00:33:24,396 Speaker 1: the number? One? Fifty third and kimbark. Then it doesn't 546 00:33:24,396 --> 00:33:26,276 Speaker 1: have a number. Actually, I don't think. Yeah, is it 547 00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:28,436 Speaker 1: still there? It is still there. I don't think it 548 00:33:28,476 --> 00:33:29,076 Speaker 1: has a number.