Speaker 1: Healthy interdependent relationships mean I can become a master of
Speaker 1: my own needs and self soothing and feeling good in
Speaker 1: the relationship to myself and spending time alone, And I
Speaker 1: can become a master at feeling safe to rely on
Speaker 1: other people and to communicate my needs to others as well.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers
Speaker 2: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes
Speaker 2: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you
Speaker 2: think ring true. And yet for many of us, our
Speaker 2: thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 2: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 2: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 2: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 2: just about thinking our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent
Speaker 2: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 2: podcast is about while other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 2: the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks
Speaker 2: for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Tyse Gibson,
Speaker 2: a relationship expert that has been recognized by Bloomberg News,
Speaker 2: Psychology Today, and various other outlets for her revolutionary work
Speaker 2: in integrated attachment theory. Tayse has worked with thousands of
Speaker 2: clients and helped them to positively transform their lives, relationships,
Speaker 2: and goals. She has over thirty million views across her
Speaker 2: social platforms and is certified in thirteen different areas of therapy. Today,
Speaker 2: Tayse and Eric discuss her book Learning Love Build the
Speaker 2: Best Relationships of Your Life Using Integrated Attachment Theory.
Speaker 3: Hi, Tys, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Eric excited to
Speaker 1: be here with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to be discussing your book, Learning Love
Speaker 3: Build the Best Relationships of your Life using Integrated Attachment Theory,
Speaker 3: and we'll also be talking about your version of that,
Speaker 3: which is called Gibson Integrated Attachment Theory. But before we
Speaker 3: get into all that will start like we always do,
Speaker 3: with a parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent who's
Speaker 3: talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there
Speaker 3: are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.
Speaker 3: One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness
Speaker 3: and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf,
Speaker 3: which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And
Speaker 3: the grandchild stops and they think about it for a second.
Speaker 3: They look up at their grandparents, they say, well, which
Speaker 3: one wins, and the grandparent says, the one you feed.
Speaker 3: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 3: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 3: the work that you do.
Speaker 1: I love this so to me, honestly, a lot of
Speaker 1: and I was telling you before we started recording that
Speaker 1: I've heard this parable and it was really influential on
Speaker 1: my own journey over a decade to go and to me,
Speaker 1: it actually represents the ego mind. And I think the
Speaker 1: ego mind is something that you know, research from the
Speaker 1: University of Southern California is new or imaging institutes, as
Speaker 1: we think sixty to seventy thousand thoughts per day, and
Speaker 1: roughly fifty thousand of them I repeated from the day before.
Speaker 1: And something that was so powerful on my own journey
Speaker 1: was to watch my thoughts and to recognize when I
Speaker 1: was thinking really negative thoughts about myself, putting myself down,
Speaker 1: beating myself up, really lacking self compassion. And I really
Speaker 1: made a big effort on my own journey of healing
Speaker 1: to feed the wolf that was more about self compassion gentleness,
Speaker 1: not constantly trying to punish myself into being better or
Speaker 1: growing more. And when I actually made more of an
Speaker 1: effort in my internal dialogue to be kind, that was
Speaker 1: super influential for me. And so I think of it
Speaker 1: as like the thinking level, the ego mind level, and
Speaker 1: how we operate from that perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that listener As you're listening, what resonated
Speaker 3: with you in that? I think a lot of us
Speaker 3: have some ideas of things that we can do to
Speaker 3: feed our good wolf, and here's a good tip to
Speaker 3: make it more likely that you do it. It can
Speaker 3: be really helpful to reflect right before you do that
Speaker 3: thing on why you want to do it. Our brains
Speaker 3: are always making a calculation of what neuroscientists would call
Speaker 3: reward value, basically, is this thing worth doing? And so
Speaker 3: when you're getting ready to do this thing that you
Speaker 3: want to do to feed your good wolf, reflecting on
Speaker 3: why actually helps to make the reward value on that
Speaker 3: higher and makes it more likely that you're going to
Speaker 3: do that. For example, if what you're trying to do
Speaker 3: is exercise, Right before you're getting ready to exercise, it
Speaker 3: can be useful to remind yourself of why. For example,
Speaker 3: I want to exercise because it makes my mental and
Speaker 3: emotional health better today. If you'd like a step by
Speaker 3: step guide for how you can easily build new habits
Speaker 3: that feed your good Wolf, go to Goodwolf dot me,
Speaker 3: slash change and join the free masterclass. The sort of
Speaker 3: plunges a right into a core part of a lot
Speaker 3: of your work, which is talking about the subconscious. You know,
Speaker 3: different people have different definitions and theories, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to ask you for yours in a second, but we know,
Speaker 3: as you said, that a huge amount of what we
Speaker 3: think is habitual repeated, meaning it's arising from somewhere, and
Speaker 3: where it's arising from is what we might call the subconscious.
Speaker 3: I mean, all you have to do is sit down
Speaker 3: and meditate for a couple minutes to realize, and it
Speaker 3: may be one of the best insights for meditation is
Speaker 3: a wait a second, I, as I think of myself,
Speaker 3: am not generating these thoughts. They're just coming. So what
Speaker 3: does the subconscious mean to you?
Speaker 1: The subconscious mind is what is currently out of our awareness.
Speaker 1: It's really our program to habituate itself. Now, people will
Speaker 1: often hear you know, our conscious mind is our logical
Speaker 1: thinking self more associated, for example, with like the neocre
Speaker 1: tax or prefrontal core tax regions, if we had to
Speaker 1: make that sort of analogy or link, and the subconscious
Speaker 1: mind is all of these programs that we have. So
Speaker 1: for example, if we grew up in a household where
Speaker 1: we were constantly criticized, then you might start criticizing yourself
Speaker 1: all the time and your own internal dialogue because we
Speaker 1: take in that set of programs and whatever we're exposed
Speaker 1: to through repetition and emotion is what really programs or
Speaker 1: patterns in the subconscious mind. Now you'll often hear people
Speaker 1: use the words subconscious and unconscious interchangeably, but there actually
Speaker 1: is an important difference, and it's that your subconscious mind
Speaker 1: you can quite easily retrieve information from, so you can
Speaker 1: look back and be like, oh, yeah, you know, when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I did feel not good enough,
Speaker 1: or oh yeah, three days ago, I did feel emotionally
Speaker 1: a little bit upset about something. So it may not
Speaker 1: be in your conscious mind's awareness, but you can pull
Speaker 1: up and retrieve, whereas your unconscious mind is much more
Speaker 1: difficult to actually retrieve information from. And it's why I
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time focusing on the subconscious because
Speaker 1: we can gain a lot of insight from there.
Speaker 3: I had a therapist to refer to that as the
Speaker 3: pre conscious in the way he would call pre conscious
Speaker 3: what you're sort of calling subconscious, meaning yes, it's available
Speaker 3: for retrieval. So let me ask you a question. So
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about attachment theory. And attachment theory
Speaker 3: is basically postulating that we relate to other people based
Speaker 3: on a lot of what happened to us when we
Speaker 3: were really young, right, Whatever patterns were happened there, they
Speaker 3: influence us in our relationships today. And you say that
Speaker 3: a lot of our attachment style is formed before we're
Speaker 3: the age of two, right, So that stuff is unconscious, right,
Speaker 3: because I don't have any idea what happened to me
Speaker 3: before too, So say more about how that aligns.
Speaker 1: Yes, So, the original work of studying attachment styles was
Speaker 1: done by John Bowlby and later Mary Ainsworth, and that's
Speaker 1: something we've built upon now. But basically there was an
Speaker 1: experiment called the Strange situation experiment, and this is how
Speaker 1: they could actually observe children's attachment styles at such a
Speaker 1: young age. And so what they would see is they
Speaker 1: would leave a young child with a parent and sort
Speaker 1: of what looked like a doctor's office waiting room, and
Speaker 1: they would have the parent exit the room just briefly
Speaker 1: and then return to the room, and they could study
Speaker 1: and see based on the child's responses and behaviors, what
Speaker 1: attachment type each individual was. So the anxious attachment style,
Speaker 1: which is sort of the more needy or clingy attachment style,
Speaker 1: would really panic when the parent left the room, and
Speaker 1: they would have a stranger come into the room at
Speaker 1: the same time and just sit there for a moment
Speaker 1: and then have the parent return. And the anxious attachment
Speaker 1: style would be very clingy when the parent returned, and
Speaker 1: you could observe those patterns of behavior. The dismissive avoidant
Speaker 1: attachment style, when the parent returned, you could see they
Speaker 1: would actually try to minimize their own attachment needs, so
Speaker 1: they would see the parent and they would look away
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't really make eye contact or posture in
Speaker 1: their body language towards trying to connect or attach. And
Speaker 1: then the fearful avoidant or disorganized attachment style would be
Speaker 1: very hot and cold back and forth, would kind of
Speaker 1: crawl towards the parent, move away, or if the parent
Speaker 1: would get too close, they would look away, but then
Speaker 1: they would kind of go back, and they were really
Speaker 1: all over the map and their behavior, and so you
Speaker 1: could see the original attachment style at that space. What's
Speaker 1: really interesting is because of neuroplasticity, our attachment style can
Speaker 1: shift and change over time. So, for example, you could
Speaker 1: have somebody who grows up in a securely attached home
Speaker 1: but then see their parents go through a painful divorce,
Speaker 1: for example at the age of eight, and because the
Speaker 1: subconscious gets programmed through repetition and emotion, then what ends
Speaker 1: up happening is somebody could suddenly become anxiously attached for example.
Speaker 1: So yes, our earliest set of attachment patterns and learnings
Speaker 1: does form at an unconscious age or an age where
Speaker 1: it's really the unconscious mind being programmed. But in order
Speaker 1: to retrieve information to see what patterns we are still
Speaker 1: carrying up into our adult lives, we can refer to
Speaker 1: patterns of different core wounds that we have or fears
Speaker 1: we have about relationships which are our subconscious. We can
Speaker 1: refer to different dynamics in regards to unmet needs that
Speaker 1: we have, or emotional patterns we have, or ways that
Speaker 1: we communicate or set boundaries and all of those things.
Speaker 1: We don't have to be able to go back into
Speaker 1: one and a half years old, for example, to action
Speaker 1: we see what our attachment styles and our patterns are.
Speaker 1: We can actually observe that happening in our daily lives
Speaker 1: as adults.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think something you're saying there is really important
Speaker 3: and I want to call it out, which is this
Speaker 3: idea of programming happens by repetition and emotion and recognizing
Speaker 3: that that programming is ongoing. You know, it's not just
Speaker 3: what happened to us in ages of two to five
Speaker 3: or before the age of two. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: talk about that, right, And while it can be helpful
Speaker 3: to know some of your patterns, it's also I don't
Speaker 3: think helpful to think of yourself as being anxiously attached
Speaker 3: as a identity. Right in the same way you and
Speaker 3: I were talking before the show, Right, there are ways
Speaker 3: in which for me to think of myself as an
Speaker 3: addict is a useful identity, and there are ways that
Speaker 3: that becomes a hugely limiting identity. And I think things
Speaker 3: like attack style or the things that happen to us
Speaker 3: as a child fall into that same category. They are
Speaker 3: useful to a point, but we also have to believe
Speaker 3: that that can.
Speaker 1: Change one hundred percent. So the way I really teach
Speaker 1: about this through our programs, for example, is, first of all,
Speaker 1: your attachment style is just your subconscious set of rules
Speaker 1: for love. It's not this personality disorder or this huge
Speaker 1: clinical diagnosis, and it's just a set of conditioned patterns
Speaker 1: and ideas about what relationships are supposed to look like.
Speaker 1: So not only is it not static, it's not like
Speaker 1: we have this for life when we understand our rules.
Speaker 1: We've broken attachment styles into five major categories of what's
Speaker 1: necessary to change to become securely attached. And I like
Speaker 1: to think of it as not a label for who
Speaker 1: you are or your identity, but a way to gain insight,
Speaker 1: almost like a window into your own patterns, so that
Speaker 1: you can observe what's not working for you, and you
Speaker 1: can do the work very easily to recondition these patterns
Speaker 1: by actually leveraging principles of neuroplasticity to change and to
Speaker 1: become secure. So I definitely couldn't agree more with you
Speaker 1: that it's not this identity, it's not this diagnosis. It's
Speaker 1: actually just a way to gain insight into your patterns
Speaker 1: and see what you need to change.
Speaker 3: Yep. And I love that word pattern. I often use
Speaker 3: the word tendency when I'm talking about things like this.
Speaker 3: We have a tendency to be a certain way, but
Speaker 3: that's what it is, where we have a pattern of
Speaker 3: being a certain way. And I find that sort of
Speaker 3: a good middle road between not addressing or believing in
Speaker 3: the fact that our earlier experience is shape us, because
Speaker 3: of course they do, and also not being in a
Speaker 3: place where we feel like our earlier experience is our
Speaker 3: destiny because they're not, you know. And so what we're
Speaker 3: trying for is that middle ground. And I really like
Speaker 3: that word pattern as a way of describing it. We
Speaker 3: have patterns, but patterns can be broken. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: this core Buddhist concept that we're all conditioned by life,
Speaker 3: and it's true, like we're just constantly being conditioned, and
Speaker 3: what can be conditioned can be unconditioned.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so funny. I say this all the time.
Speaker 1: This is like one of my catch phrases that I
Speaker 1: say is I'm like, you're not born with an attachment
Speaker 1: style gets conditioned into you through repetition and emotion and
Speaker 1: just by leveraging the understanding of how conditioning works, you
Speaker 1: can recondition your patterns. And I'm sure you and I
Speaker 1: probably both agree, from having similar backstories in different ways,
Speaker 1: that it can be so limiting to think you are
Speaker 1: going to struggle with something for your whole entire life.
Speaker 1: And I just don't see that as being the way
Speaker 1: I think that. Unfortunately, in some cases, we have like
Speaker 1: a Western medical system, which I think serves tremendously in
Speaker 1: very specific cases, but we sort of have the system
Speaker 1: of our world and culture in many ways, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: when you are a certain way, you're going to stay
Speaker 1: that way. Your past is your destiny for your future.
Speaker 1: And I just so strongly disagree with that concept.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I also think there are ways in which
Speaker 3: these ideas can be overused. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3: There was a time where a really good relationship that
Speaker 3: I was in of about a decade ended very suddenly
Speaker 3: and unexpectedly and in a way I didn't want to
Speaker 3: have happen. And so the therapist I was seeing was
Speaker 3: talking about core wounds the whole time. And while I
Speaker 3: agree there is such a thing, and I do have
Speaker 3: some at one point I said, let me ask you
Speaker 3: a question. What if I'd walked in here and told
Speaker 3: you that my partner had died, Because that's what we're
Speaker 3: talking about, right, the sudden end of a relationship that
Speaker 3: was really important. I don't think you would start talking
Speaker 3: to me about my core wounds. You probably would be
Speaker 3: talking to me about grief and the process of grief.
Speaker 3: And so my point there being, I think it goes
Speaker 3: along with what you're saying, which is these are ways
Speaker 3: of thinking that can be really helpful. But like any lens,
Speaker 3: we want to be able to shift the lens around
Speaker 3: in a flexible way so that we don't start to
Speaker 3: see the world through only one way of seeing.
Speaker 1: Yes, can I share a story with you though, because
Speaker 1: I think there's a nuance there that's really interesting. So
Speaker 1: I have a background in like CBT, hypnosis, all these things.
Speaker 1: I tried to figure out how we can take core
Speaker 1: wounds from a CBT cognitive behavioral therapy perspective and actually
Speaker 1: rewire them. It's a big part of the work that
Speaker 1: I do. And the first time I actually saw this
Speaker 1: so impactful from an external point of view, because I
Speaker 1: did a lot of this work internally. I was in
Speaker 1: practice for about a year, and I had two women
Speaker 1: that I was seeing. They were both new, so it
Speaker 1: was both their first day coming into session, and both
Speaker 1: were coming to me because they were fresh out of
Speaker 1: a divorce, and they were about the same age, and
Speaker 1: they both had two children, also about the same age,
Speaker 1: and they had both been married for a similar period
Speaker 1: of time. And I was reading their intake forms in
Speaker 1: the morning, and I saw one before lunch and one
Speaker 1: after lunch. The first woman came in and she said,
Speaker 1: this is going to be hard. I need some support
Speaker 1: going through this divorce. I want support on how can
Speaker 1: I can really help my children and assist them and
Speaker 1: make sure that they're okay. But I also know that
Speaker 1: this is for the best because our marriage really wasn't working.
Speaker 1: So we worked a lot on like her unmet needs
Speaker 1: that were going to happen, the process of grief in
Speaker 1: a healthy way, these sorts of things. She was stressed
Speaker 1: and upset coming into this session, but not anything you know,
Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. I had lunch, I saw the
Speaker 1: next woman, and of course, having just been through this
Speaker 1: past session, sort of expected it to be quite similar
Speaker 1: to the previous woman. Before this woman came in and
Speaker 1: she had like stains all over her clothes. She was
Speaker 1: like completely disheveled. She was crying before she sat down
Speaker 1: on the couch, and she was like ten out of
Speaker 1: ten distressed. And I asked her, I said, well, what
Speaker 1: are you making this situation mean? And she said, I
Speaker 1: was never loved, Otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to leave me.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be alone forever. I'm not good enough.
Speaker 1: I've always known I was unlovable, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I just don't matter to anyone now. All of those
Speaker 1: things are core wounds. And what happens is core wounds
Speaker 1: when we have them from pre existing ideas we've acquired
Speaker 1: about ourselves through conditioning, through past experiences, and how they
Speaker 1: imprint the subconscious mind magnify grief. So whenever we have grief,
Speaker 1: grief is also unmet needs. Grief is also a process
Speaker 1: of emotions and nervous system regulation and things we have
Speaker 1: to be present with ourselves for. But grief goes from
Speaker 1: pain of unmet needs to the suffering of our stories.
Speaker 1: The moment we give meaning to the situation based on
Speaker 1: past experience is because what a core wound really is
Speaker 1: is it's a subconscious idea we have about ourselves with
Speaker 1: all this pre existing emotional storage, because your subconscious mind
Speaker 1: retains everything, it consolidates memories over time. But we basically
Speaker 1: experience the pain of the objective situation in front of us,
Speaker 1: combined with all the times we felt not good enough,
Speaker 1: unlivable alone, these sorts of things in the past, and
Speaker 1: so core wounds are actually a really important part of
Speaker 1: processing grief. But we have to be able to also
Speaker 1: work on the needs, the emotional regulation, the nervous system,
Speaker 1: work the other parts of grief that are natural and
Speaker 1: going to be there. But it can be very useful
Speaker 1: and very supportive to strip those things back and actually
Speaker 1: work to recondition those ideas we have.
Speaker 3: That's a really nice way of saying it, which is
Speaker 3: that the core wounds can amplify grief. That's a really
Speaker 3: valid point because the core wounds, and we could translate
Speaker 3: that if you don't love that phrase core wounds, we
Speaker 3: could use the phrase core beliefs, right, yea. Our core beliefs,
Speaker 3: like you said, are how we make meaning out of
Speaker 3: things that happen, and the meaning we make out of
Speaker 3: what happens is a huge part of how we respond
Speaker 3: to that thing exactly.
Speaker 1: I always give people the analogy because it's important to
Speaker 1: remember that when we go through difficult experiences, our mind
Speaker 1: is also wired to hang on to negative things more
Speaker 1: than positive. And the analogy I get to describe this
Speaker 1: is like, if you're walking in the forest tomorrow and
Speaker 1: you see a bear and you run away from the
Speaker 1: bear and you're safe, and it's all okay, but you
Speaker 1: have to walk that same exact route the following day.
Speaker 1: You're not going to be like, oh, I remember that
Speaker 1: beautiful flower that was next to the bear yesterday. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be like, I remember the bear and its teeth.
Speaker 1: And so what happens is when we have painful experiences
Speaker 1: throughout our lives that we can't properly process or make
Speaker 1: sense of, we store it with a lot of negative
Speaker 1: emotion because on a biological level, we've been wired over
Speaker 1: time and generations to go well, if I hold onto
Speaker 1: the negative, I can project it into the future and
Speaker 1: I can stop these things from happening to me. I
Speaker 1: can protect myself from them, like the bear. But unfortunately
Speaker 1: it doesn't really work that way any longer because we're
Speaker 1: not in these ongoing survival situations on a daily basis
Speaker 1: in most of the Western world at least, And so
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is we just project all of
Speaker 1: these painful ideas about ourselves, and the most obvious ones
Speaker 1: people can probably relate to from this core wound perspective
Speaker 1: are these ideas that if I was betrayed growing up,
Speaker 1: how I can never trust anybody, Somebody's going to break
Speaker 1: my trust. Or if I was abandoned growing up, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I'm always going to be abandoned, or I'm
Speaker 1: not good enough, or I'm unworthy, or you know, all
Speaker 1: these ideas, and they're so useful to work on reconditioning
Speaker 1: because those are the exact things that often tend to
Speaker 1: cause a lot of sabotage and devastation to our lives.
Speaker 3: I would also imagine that these things also fall on
Speaker 3: some sort of spectrum, meaning there isn't some line at
Speaker 3: which I'm suddenly securely attached and a line before which
Speaker 3: I'm not securely attached. Right in the same way that
Speaker 3: we don't think about addiction in the same way anymore, Right,
Speaker 3: we think of it as on being on a spectrum,
Speaker 3: you know, because one of the things that I've observed
Speaker 3: is that I feel like through a lot of work,
Speaker 3: a lot of the type of work you're describing. I
Speaker 3: did a lot of this in my early thirties, which
Speaker 3: was quite some time ago. I'm largely securely attached, except
Speaker 3: when the stakes get really really high, at which point
Speaker 3: I tend to revert back a little bit to my
Speaker 3: previous types of attachment, meaning I will not get triggered
Speaker 3: by ninety percent of what used to trigger me. I'll
Speaker 3: just simply be like, all right, that happens, deal with it.
Speaker 3: But yet, when the stakes get high enough, or when
Speaker 3: it gets serious enough, I do find that I'm no
Speaker 3: longer securely attached. I am back to the way I
Speaker 3: was before.
Speaker 1: So that's really interesting to me. First of all, I
Speaker 1: do agree very much that everything's on a continuum one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, and that's why we do like a breakdown
Speaker 1: and attachment styles. Oh, you're you know, sixty percent anxious
Speaker 1: and forty percent secure. You know, you've got those anxious
Speaker 1: titlencies that are dominant right like that, I think there's
Speaker 1: a really important way to break it down, and then
Speaker 1: we work on the we're wounds and on that needs
Speaker 1: and boundary issues associated with working through those anxious tendencies
Speaker 1: or patterns. It is interesting to me, and that's what
Speaker 1: I read into it first when you said it was
Speaker 1: you know, there's a sort of dynamic about attachment theory,
Speaker 1: which is that your attachment style won't show up very
Speaker 1: strongly until you're actually attached. You went on to differentiate
Speaker 1: that ninety percent of the things will trigger you, but
Speaker 1: ten percent well, and you're always going to be a
Speaker 1: human being. Becoming securely attached doesn't mean I am now
Speaker 1: a robot and I don't feel emotion. But you know,
Speaker 1: for people who relate to that first statement you said,
Speaker 1: but not the second for anybody who goes, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: really good, you know, at the beginning of a relationship.
Speaker 1: But only once I really develop feelings, then I suddenly
Speaker 1: have these dismissive, avoidant tendencies or anxious tendencies. That's probably
Speaker 1: an overarching attachment style because we don't have that experience
Speaker 1: until we really have those feelings and feel that degreeable
Speaker 1: inner ability towards someone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was certainly attached. And again the therapist I
Speaker 3: was talking to at the time, because I had a
Speaker 3: moment of what happened. I have done all this work,
Speaker 3: Why am I back here, and he basically posited that theory.
Speaker 3: He said, Look, all that work that you're going to
Speaker 3: do is going to make you better able to handle
Speaker 3: more and more and more and more. And then there
Speaker 3: is a point, though, beyond which things are not fully healed,
Speaker 3: and that's where you'll go when it gets that extreme.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think that it's really important for listeners too,
Speaker 1: because I know you know this, but but to distinguish
Speaker 1: between like a trigger versus a painful life experience. Like
Speaker 1: just because you're securely attached, like if somebody passes away
Speaker 1: in your family or something like that, you're still going
Speaker 1: to have those deeply unmet needs from grief. You're still
Speaker 1: going to be affected by that human experience. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you never have like a painful reaction to something.
Speaker 1: It's just that when we become secure, a lot of
Speaker 1: those patterns that were maladaptive, those things like amplifying a
Speaker 1: painful event, like let's say somebody doesn't call you back,
Speaker 1: rather than that being a nine out of ten abandonment
Speaker 1: core wound triggered and you're panicked and then you're calling
Speaker 1: back that person multiple multiple times, You're going to see, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's still uncomfortable because it doesn't meet maybe the needs
Speaker 1: or expectations I had in that moment, and that can
Speaker 1: make me feel a negative way. But I don't see
Speaker 1: myself get extremely triggered, you know, at the eight, nine,
Speaker 1: ten out of ten scale, and I don't see myself
Speaker 1: feel that I have behaviors in response to that that
Speaker 1: become out of my control, things like oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I know I shouldn't keep calling them, but I keep
Speaker 1: doing it anyways. Or I know I shouldn't shut them
Speaker 1: down and ice them out, but I can't help it.
Speaker 1: And so that's where you're going to see a lot of.
Speaker 3: That needle move Yep, that makes sense. So let's start
Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about the process of working
Speaker 3: with these subconscious beliefs or core wounds or attachment styles
Speaker 3: in a way that we can start to change them.
Speaker 3: Where do we begin here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I like to cover five main topics, and
Speaker 1: we can go through them in deeper ways, but just
Speaker 1: so people have an overarching theme. The first one is
Speaker 1: reconditioning those core wounds, and we can talk about how
Speaker 1: to do that in just a moment. The second thing
Speaker 1: is we have to learn to meet our own needs
Speaker 1: So when I think of healthy interdependent relationships, I don't
Speaker 1: think of I get so good at the relationship to
Speaker 1: myself that I ignore everybody. And I also don't think
Speaker 1: of I become so good at controlling people's reactions outside
Speaker 1: of me that I only focus on other people. Healthy
Speaker 1: interdependent relationships mean I can become a master of my
Speaker 1: own needs and self soothing and feeling good in the
Speaker 1: relationship to myself and spending time alone. And I can
Speaker 1: become a master at feeling safe to rely on other
Speaker 1: people and to communicate my needs to others as well.
Speaker 1: So we ca'll actually see as I go through these
Speaker 1: five things, three of them are internal like we have
Speaker 1: to do the work ourselves, and two of them actually
Speaker 1: become external like in our interpersonal interactions. So we start
Speaker 1: with the reprogramming core wounds. Then we learn to meet
Speaker 1: our own needs. It's a big part of how we
Speaker 1: self source and self soothe. Then we do some nervous
Speaker 1: system regulation. All three insecure attachment styles generally are quite
Speaker 1: disregulated from a nervous system level. They spend a little
Speaker 1: more time in sympathetic or fight in flight mode rather
Speaker 1: than parasympathetic mode. So we do work there, and then
Speaker 1: we move into learning to communicate more effectively to others
Speaker 1: and actually receive our needs from others, and to do
Speaker 1: some healthy boundary work. And when we cannot actually recondition
Speaker 1: any maladaptive patterns in those five major categories, that's where
Speaker 1: we'll see somebody have the behavioral patterns of somebody who's
Speaker 1: securely attached. So if you'd like, I'm happy to go
Speaker 1: into like a tool for example, for how we can
Speaker 1: actually recondition core wounds.
Speaker 3: I want to pause for a quick good Wolf reminder.
Speaker 3: This one's about a habit change and a mistake I
Speaker 3: see people making. And that's really that we don't think
Speaker 3: about these new habits that we want to add in
Speaker 3: the context of our entire life. Right, habits don't happen
Speaker 3: in a vacuum. They have to fit in the life
Speaker 3: that we have. So when we just keep adding I
Speaker 3: should do this, I should do that, I should do this,
Speaker 3: we get discouraged because we haven't really thought about what
Speaker 3: we're not going to do in order to make that happen.
Speaker 3: So it's really helpful for you to think about where
Speaker 3: is this going to fit and what in my life
Speaker 3: might I need to remove? If you want to step
Speaker 3: by step guide for how you can easily build new
Speaker 3: habits that feed your good Wolf, go to good Wolf
Speaker 3: dot me, slash change and join the Free Master Lass.
Speaker 3: I wanted to follow up on something you said, which
Speaker 3: was secure attachment, still being attached. That word is in
Speaker 3: it because I think for a while there was, and
Speaker 3: maybe there is still to some degree. But I think
Speaker 3: if we're not careful, healthy is presented as this I'm
Speaker 3: just not affected by what other people do kind of person.
Speaker 3: This island almost And I don't think that's what we
Speaker 3: are talking about. We are talking about still being attached,
Speaker 3: about being interdependent on what other people do matters and
Speaker 3: it's important to us and affects us. But also, as
Speaker 3: you said, not being so far out there, you know,
Speaker 3: being secure in that attachment.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I mean, I think there's, unfortunately, in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways culturally, this dynamic of going, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, you're secure when you don't need anybody, and
Speaker 1: you know, that's just going back into more dismissive, avoidant behavior.
Speaker 1: That's like, I'm an island and we're not wired for that.
Speaker 1: Why are it? Actually, In the words of doctor Gabermatte,
Speaker 1: we're wired for both attachment and authenticity. We're wired to
Speaker 1: have relationships to others, to rely on people, to connect
Speaker 1: with people, and also to have an individuated sense of self,
Speaker 1: to know what it is that we're looking for that's
Speaker 1: meaningful to us, and to have that authentic sort of independence.
Speaker 1: But it's ideally the best of both worlds. And just
Speaker 1: because things are different doesn't mean that they're mutually exclusive.
Speaker 1: Just because you know, connecting with others and having a
Speaker 1: relationship to self are different from each other, doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that it's one or the other. Healthy interdependent relationships actually
Speaker 1: have both. And to your point, securely attached has the
Speaker 1: word attached within it.
Speaker 3: I would love to hear some about the first step
Speaker 3: of reconditioning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is a really easy tool that I
Speaker 1: love to share with people. And there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of ways we can recondition our subconscious mind, but this
Speaker 1: is one that I always get people to start. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there will be like, oh, affirmations, affirmations.
Speaker 1: Affirmations I think are not very helpful personally because your
Speaker 1: pre existing programs, like we started this episode talking about,
Speaker 1: are subconscious. Nobody's consciously waking up and picking those core
Speaker 1: wounds and saying, today I'm going to tell myself forty
Speaker 1: seven times that I'm going to be abandoned and that
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough, and I'm going to see how
Speaker 1: I feel, right right.
Speaker 3: I mean, the science on affirmation seems to be some
Speaker 3: degree they work best on the people who need them
Speaker 3: the least, meaning they work best for people who already
Speaker 3: believe that they're good enough exactly.
Speaker 1: You know. I think there's two important things to recognize
Speaker 1: for people too who don't know this, which is, the
Speaker 1: conscious mind is responsible for three to five percent of
Speaker 1: our daily beliefs, thoughts, emotions, decisions, and then our subconscious
Speaker 1: and unconscious collectively are ninety five to ninety seven percent.
Speaker 1: So it's not your conscious mind running the show. And
Speaker 1: your conscious mind isn't choosing to think those autopilot thoughts
Speaker 1: that are sabotaging relationships or destroying different areas of your
Speaker 1: life at times. And so the first step, because we
Speaker 1: have to find what our big core wound is it's
Speaker 1: affecting us. Now, there's eighteen or so major ones. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to list all of them, but I'll listen
Speaker 1: really common ones per attachment style anxiously attached individuals. They're
Speaker 1: big ones are around I'll be abandoned, alone, excluded, disliked, rejected,
Speaker 1: not good enough, unlovable, unsafe if I lose connection, dismissive avoidance.
Speaker 1: Their big core wounds tend to be I'll be trapped, helpless,
Speaker 1: powerless in the wrong relationship. I'll be weak if I'm vulnerable,
Speaker 1: I'm incapable of change. I am shameful or defective if
Speaker 1: I show or share my emotions and conflict is unsafe
Speaker 1: or closeness is unsafe. Fearful avoidance tend to basically share
Speaker 1: on both sides of the attachment continuum, but they also
Speaker 1: have unique ones around fearing betrayal, being unworthy, or being bad.
Speaker 1: So basically step one, find your core wound and it's opposite. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's just for simplicity's sake, say I'm not good enough.
Speaker 1: So I'm not good enough? Opposite is I am good enough?
Speaker 1: Now we can't just affirm that we're good enough, because
Speaker 1: then the conscious mind speaks language and your subconscious mind
Speaker 1: does not. So if I say to you Eric, whatever
Speaker 1: you do, do not think of a chocolate chip cookie,
Speaker 1: you probably have the experience of like visualizing a chocolate
Speaker 1: chip cookie, and it's because your conscious mind heres do not,
Speaker 1: but you're subconscious, the one running the show sees through
Speaker 1: emotions and images. So the subconscious speaks emotions and images.
Speaker 1: Now we need repetition to fire and wire neural pathways.
Speaker 1: So step one not good enough. It's opposite as I
Speaker 1: am good enough. Step two. We need to leverage repetition,
Speaker 1: emotion and image right. And the way we do that
Speaker 1: is by finding memories, because all memories are a container
Speaker 1: of emotions and images. If you share your favorite childhood
Speaker 1: memory and it's you being on the swing set with
Speaker 1: your parents pushing you, you would see the images of
Speaker 1: the swing and you would as you recount the memory
Speaker 1: smile or laugh or you know, your body language would change.
Speaker 1: So all we need to do is come up with
Speaker 1: ten for repetition memories to support I am good enough,
Speaker 1: and then we record it somewhere like into our phone
Speaker 1: and listen back for twenty one days, because research shows
Speaker 1: it takes twenty one days to really create new neural
Speaker 1: networks that are hardwired enough where they're going to stick.
Speaker 1: And it may sound like, oh my gosh, twenty one
Speaker 1: days of work to do those three steps to find
Speaker 1: the opposite of our core wound, ten memories to support
Speaker 1: the new belief, and listen back to it for that
Speaker 1: twenty one day cycle. But the reality is this will
Speaker 1: operroot sometimes decades of retelling these same old stories, and
Speaker 1: I can share firsthand this was something that was so
Speaker 1: powerful for me, and I've now seen through some of
Speaker 1: our programs. We have over twenty five thousand people report
Speaker 1: and eighty eight point seven percent improvement in their core
Speaker 1: wounds on these self paced programs. So like you don't
Speaker 1: know that people are sticking to them for this pull
Speaker 1: twenty one days, but they really really work and it's
Speaker 1: really impactful to just start with that simple tool.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about that a little bit more. I
Speaker 3: am a person who a has a very bad memory.
Speaker 3: I don't remember lots of things, like I would say
Speaker 3: the vast majority of my childhood simply isn't even there
Speaker 3: that I can find. And I don't tend to think
Speaker 3: in images very much. So when you say to find
Speaker 3: ten memories that counteract the core belief, okay, so ten
Speaker 3: memories that made where I felt enough. If my core
Speaker 3: wound is I'm not good enough, I would find ten
Speaker 3: memories of where I felt like I was enough exactly.
Speaker 3: And when you say record them, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: What am I saying? What is somebody actually recording?
Speaker 1: Excellent question, So you would write out, like, actually, just
Speaker 1: for argument's sake, can you share like one memory of
Speaker 1: a time where you felt enough about something?
Speaker 3: You're asking the wrong question? A memory? It could take
Speaker 3: me for forty five minutes to come up with one.
Speaker 1: It can be small. They don't have to be these
Speaker 1: like monumental achievements like maybe your podcast reach a certain
Speaker 1: number of downloads, or maybe you had somebody come up
Speaker 1: to you and say like, hey, you've really impacted my life,
Speaker 1: Like is there anything like that?
Speaker 3: For sure, there's plenty of those sort of things.
Speaker 1: Yes, perfect, So you would write out like a sentence
Speaker 1: or two that represents that moment. So, you know, Bob
Speaker 1: came up to me on the sidewalk when I was,
Speaker 1: you know, going for a walk at the park and
Speaker 1: he said, you know, he listens to my podcast and
Speaker 1: it's impacted his life. So one or two sentences, you'd
Speaker 1: write them down, and then you would just you know,
Speaker 1: take the video on your phone and just not record
Speaker 1: the video, and you just use the audio only and
Speaker 1: just read out those sentences from those ten pieces of memory.
Speaker 1: And for people who don't have, you know, a beautiful,
Speaker 1: amazing podcast changing everybody's lives, like yourself, you know, for
Speaker 1: somebody who's like, well, I don't know, you know, even
Speaker 1: little things like hey, you helped your coworker in the
Speaker 1: workplace yesterday, or you know, your boss said, you know what,
Speaker 1: you're really making an effort, and I appreciate that just
Speaker 1: those little tiny things gives us that repetition and emotion
Speaker 1: that we need.
Speaker 3: So I feel like this kind of could run into
Speaker 3: the same problem, and you could tell me how to
Speaker 3: get around it, which is, if I don't feel like
Speaker 3: I'm enough, right, I might view those experiences of feeling
Speaker 3: like enough, and I might then filter them through that
Speaker 3: core wound so that they don't even feel you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like I could see somebody going, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: like you said, it's easy if you do something where
Speaker 3: people tell you all the time that you're good. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I helped my coworker yesterday, but so what that doesn't
Speaker 3: really matter? Or you know, I guess I felt like
Speaker 3: enough when my boss told me that I did a
Speaker 3: good job but my boss is kind of an idiot anyway,
Speaker 3: and like, I can see how we would filter these
Speaker 3: things right back through the core wound.
Speaker 1: It's such a great question. So I do see this.
Speaker 1: I would say I see this in about like ten
Speaker 1: to fifteen percent of people. Yeah, well it usually represents
Speaker 1: people and maybe this was your past. Right. Is when
Speaker 1: we have a core one that's so deep, so you know,
Speaker 1: it's like so hard to even like think differently of
Speaker 1: it or even to challenge it in some capacity because
Speaker 1: it's so close to our sense of self and who
Speaker 1: we are for so long. So there's a couple of
Speaker 1: little hacks. So the first thing is we try to
Speaker 1: get people to just like focus on one pointedness, right,
Speaker 1: just focusing on not giving those self objections, being mindful
Speaker 1: of your internal dialogue, and keeping your mind trained during
Speaker 1: that three minute focus period of listening back to it.
Speaker 1: On No, my boss would say, I did this good thing.
Speaker 1: You know, there was this improvement here. If that's too
Speaker 1: difficult for people, we then instead hack the system by
Speaker 1: starting a process called starting general and then getting specific,
Speaker 1: so we don't go I am good enough. Here's the
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. We say it's possible that I'm improving,
Speaker 1: and we start for you know, the first seven days
Speaker 1: or so just with that, you know, just evidence that
Speaker 1: it's possible that I'm improving. Then we move into I'm
Speaker 1: seeing myself improve and then we move in too, you know,
Speaker 1: and so we graduate ourselves when we start to build
Speaker 1: emotional resonance. Now, the reason this tends to work really
Speaker 1: well is actually that we have this mechanism in our
Speaker 1: brain called the reticular activating system. And I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: heard of this, but for anybody listening, the RIS is
Speaker 1: basically a filtering system. And the most common example that
Speaker 1: you'll see it use within is like if somebody's trying
Speaker 1: to buy a new car and you may have not
Speaker 1: noticed that car in the road before, but now that
Speaker 1: you're focusing on buying the new car, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I see the white jeeps everywhere on the road. So
Speaker 1: we can actually leverage us when it comes to reconditioning,
Speaker 1: which is as I start to look for these pieces
Speaker 1: of evidence, have this routine of like focusing on these things.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of tuning my dial into this, which also
Speaker 1: allows us to keep graduating and building momentum across time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like that idea. I often think of
Speaker 3: that with things that sometimes if we can't get ourselves
Speaker 3: to positive, can we get ourselves to neutral or even undecided?
Speaker 3: You know, like I can't quite believe that, but I'm
Speaker 3: going to be willing to consider that maybe it could
Speaker 3: be that, right, because our brains have a and this
Speaker 3: may be more developed in some people than others, like
Speaker 3: a pretty well attuned sort of BS system, which is
Speaker 3: when you're telling yourself something that you don't believe, it
Speaker 3: doesn't work, which is what we were back to with affirmations,
Speaker 3: and the other science on affirmations I've seen is that
Speaker 3: affirmations can be helpful if they are realistic enough that
Speaker 3: you can believe them to some degree. It's much better,
Speaker 3: you said, which is like, I might be improving is
Speaker 3: a far better affirmation then I'm wonderful. If you don't
Speaker 3: believe you're wonderful, right, but I might be improving is
Speaker 3: something that most of us can at least get behind, like, okay,
Speaker 3: well I can do that. And so I love that
Speaker 3: idea of just dialing things back a little bit so
Speaker 3: you find that place that does feel like it doesn't
Speaker 3: make you want to scream out loud, you know, like bullshit,
Speaker 3: you dial it down to that point. I think that's
Speaker 3: really good advice exactly.
Speaker 1: And part of why we leverage the proof too, is
Speaker 1: it makes it more realistic, like, well, we have actual evidence,
Speaker 1: so we're backing it up or the memories or the evidence,
Speaker 1: and then if combined you can sort of dial it back.
Speaker 1: Then it's really hard at that point for it to
Speaker 1: have a difficult time landing with people.
Speaker 3: Yep. I think the other thing that you describe there
Speaker 3: when you talk about repetition and emotion is important here,
Speaker 3: which is that oftentimes the first time we do something,
Speaker 3: it doesn't really do anything. There's no big change, right,
Speaker 3: And so I talk a lot about one of my
Speaker 3: core philosophies is that little by little, little becomes a lot,
Speaker 3: meaning you do one little thing and it doesn't change anything,
Speaker 3: but you do that little thing again and again and
Speaker 3: again and again, and you start to notice the change cumulatively.
Speaker 3: So I've also found, like you're describing here, that I
Speaker 3: may do it and I'd be like, well I didn't
Speaker 3: do anything. It's like, well, yeah, give it twenty one
Speaker 3: days before I rule out that it's not working.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I love this so much because I just
Speaker 1: so strongly agree. And so what happens is your subconscious
Speaker 1: mine wants to maintain its comfort zone because at the
Speaker 1: end of the we're kind of survival wired, right, So
Speaker 1: if we have this comfort zone of what's familiar, even
Speaker 1: if we've been miserable, we're like, well, this is working
Speaker 1: because I've stayed alive. Right. That's like not your conscious mind,
Speaker 1: but that's your subconscious and unconscious mind. So we work
Speaker 1: really hard to not change, quite honestly. And this is
Speaker 1: the example that I give you know how we talked
Speaker 1: about those five major parts and we started with like
Speaker 1: core wounds. Actually give this exercise for our needs. So
Speaker 1: let's say somebody is really anxiously attached and they hate
Speaker 1: to meet their own needs, right, they want to focus
Speaker 1: on other people and other people meeting their needs. Usually people,
Speaker 1: let's say that their needs are for validation or reassurance
Speaker 1: or things like that, which are generally more anxious leaning needs.
Speaker 1: I get people to sit down and like, Okay, we're
Speaker 1: going to validate or encourage ourselves by saying like three
Speaker 1: wins that we had today, or we're going to say
Speaker 1: something positive or compassionate about ourselves, or do something that's
Speaker 1: like self reinforcing, and the first seven days people are like,
Speaker 1: it feels mechanical. It doesn't feel like it's making a
Speaker 1: huge impact. I feel like it's like I'd rather just
Speaker 1: have somebody else say this to me than me do
Speaker 1: it myself. And I always tell people it's going to
Speaker 1: feel mechanical for the first seven days. Around day ten,
Speaker 1: we start actually feeling good self sourcing. We'll start seeing
Speaker 1: that people are like, yeah, I actually kind of like
Speaker 1: was proud of myself when I gave myself the validation
Speaker 1: or reinforcement or whatever need it is right. And people
Speaker 1: will start seeing that their ability to self soothe, which
Speaker 1: largely depends on our capacity to understand and meet our
Speaker 1: own needs, doesn't feel good at first, but as you
Speaker 1: build that momentum through repetition and emotion, when you're hitting
Speaker 1: day twenty twenty one, all of a sudden, you have
Speaker 1: these anxiously attached individuals who were terrified of spending time
Speaker 1: alone or not having a full social calendar, being like,
Speaker 1: I actually really enjoy my alone time. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm actually like having a good time with myself. And
Speaker 1: even things like emotional connection, which tends to be a
Speaker 1: big need for them cool, I'm going to emotionally connect
Speaker 1: through taking a course and learning about myself, reading a book,
Speaker 1: and in respecting journaling. At first, people are like, I
Speaker 1: don't like it. This doesn't feel good. But as you
Speaker 1: ramp up sitting around day you know ten, there's an
Speaker 1: improvement day fifteen, and as we get to twenty one,
Speaker 1: people are like, I actually like doing these things. So
Speaker 1: we self source through learning how to build that relationship
Speaker 1: to ourselves.
Speaker 3: Again, Yeah, I really like that. So listener and thinking
Speaker 3: about that and all the other great wisdom from today's episode.
Speaker 3: If you were going to isolate just one top insight
Speaker 3: that you're taking away, what would it be. Remember, little
Speaker 3: by little, a little becomes a lot. Change happens by
Speaker 3: us repeatedly taking positive action. And I want to give
Speaker 3: you a tip on that, and it's to start small.
Speaker 3: It's really important when we're trying to implement new habits
Speaker 3: to often start smaller than we think we need to,
Speaker 3: because what that does is it allows us to get victories.
Speaker 3: And victories are really important because we become more motivated
Speaker 3: when we're feeling good about ourselves, and we become less
Speaker 3: motivated when we're feeling bad about ourselves. So by starting
Speaker 3: small and making sure that you succeed, you build your
Speaker 3: motivation for further change down the road. If you'd like
Speaker 3: a step by step guide for how you can easily
Speaker 3: build new habits that feed your good wolf, go to
Speaker 3: good Wolf dot me, slash change and join the free masterclass.
Speaker 3: We're near the end of our time here, but this
Speaker 3: sort of brings this kind of back to where we
Speaker 3: started when you discuss the wolf parable and you talked
Speaker 3: about self compassion, because Kristin Neff, who's the leading researcher
Speaker 3: on self compassion, has a term she calls backdraft, meaning
Speaker 3: that when you start to work on self compassion, you
Speaker 3: might actually feel worse for a little bit because it's
Speaker 3: so uncomfortable. You're almost remembering, you know, the conditions in
Speaker 3: which you weren't loved right, And her point is more
Speaker 3: or less, stick with it, even though it doesn't feel
Speaker 3: good at first, stay with it and that will pass.
Speaker 3: And I think it's very similar to what you're saying here,
Speaker 3: which is give it a try. You know, three minutes
Speaker 3: a day for twenty one days, it's an hour, maybe
Speaker 3: an hour and a half, and you see changes occur
Speaker 3: during that window. So what does the process look like
Speaker 3: in an ongoing way?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Because I'm not saying that doing that for three minutes
Speaker 3: a day for twenty one days one make a difference,
Speaker 3: because I think it can. I also don't think that
Speaker 3: you reprogram a lifetime of thinking in an hour and
Speaker 3: a half. So what does this process look like in
Speaker 3: an ongoing kind of way?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fantastic question. So when it comes to
Speaker 1: core wounds, I get people to only do one or
Speaker 1: two core wounds at a time, and I know that
Speaker 1: some people will sit down and be like, I have
Speaker 1: like seven core wounds, and so it feels overwhelming, but
Speaker 1: it makes a huge impact. The analogy often give is
Speaker 1: this acronym of BTEA, and this is not the only
Speaker 1: way it works. But our beliefs lead to thought patterns,
Speaker 1: so B to T. So if you imagine a core
Speaker 1: belief is like a tree trunk, all the branch is
Speaker 1: coming off of the core wounds. So if you think
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough, you think I'm not interesting enough,
Speaker 1: funny enough, pretty enough, smart enough. Fill in the blanks right,
Speaker 1: all the thought patterns that will come off enough. How
Speaker 1: do we feel when we start thinking those thoughts? While
Speaker 1: we feel sad or herd or upset. And then neuroscience
Speaker 1: has actually proven a NEUROSCIENTI is named Antonio and demasis
Speaker 1: actually proven that every single decision we make is based
Speaker 1: on our emotional state. So even people who think that
Speaker 1: they're very logical rational thinkers make emotionally based decisions in
Speaker 1: full and then are just quick to rationalize or justify
Speaker 1: through logic. And so if we pluck that belief, that
Speaker 1: core belief out at its root, it will change our thinking,
Speaker 1: it will change how we feel, and it will change
Speaker 1: our actions and behaviors. Right, you can see, if I'm
Speaker 1: telling the story I'm not good enough or I'm unworthy
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, maybe I go home and
Speaker 1: I drink, or maybe I go home and I binge
Speaker 1: deep food or watch television for nine hours to avoid myself. Like,
Speaker 1: we all have these actions that will follow. So the
Speaker 1: process I often give to people is like pick one
Speaker 1: or two core wounds that you're sick of, that you're
Speaker 1: done with, and start there, and people will see their
Speaker 1: emotional state change, they'll see their thought patterns change, they'll
Speaker 1: even see their actions or coping mechanisms change over time,
Speaker 1: and then pick another one or two that you're ready
Speaker 1: to get rid of. And it's an ongoing process, but
Speaker 1: it makes such a big impact. And I also think
Speaker 1: that something I promised myself a long time ago is
Speaker 1: it's funny you actually said this at the beginning, and
Speaker 1: it startled me because I was like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: think I've said this out loud before. One of the
Speaker 1: first things I did on my own journey was somebody said, oh,
Speaker 1: you should meditate, and you should learn to watch your
Speaker 1: thoughts and see what you think. My first time ever
Speaker 1: made meditating, I sat down and as soon as I
Speaker 1: sat down, I tried to watch my thoughts. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: watch your thoughts, but my thoughts were already running. And
Speaker 1: in that moment, I heard myself go, this is stupid.
Speaker 1: You're gonna fail this like you fail it everything else.
Speaker 1: What's the point of doing this. You're always going to
Speaker 1: be this way. And because I was witnessing it in
Speaker 1: the moment and actually watching it, it was like mind
Speaker 1: blowing to me, like it was so life changing because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, here's what I'm numbing.
Speaker 1: I'm numbing this voice in my head all day long,
Speaker 1: and so like I am such a big advocate of
Speaker 1: reprogramming core wounds because it's changed my internal dialogue and
Speaker 1: then it's also changed as a result, how I feel and
Speaker 1: my coping mechanism. So I highly recommend you know, people
Speaker 1: doing this, and we see amazing results with tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of people doing this. But what I would recommend
Speaker 1: for people is sit down, pick one or two at
Speaker 1: a time, do it for the twenty one days, go back,
Speaker 1: do a few more check in practice being more mindful
Speaker 1: with your internal dialogue. And as you're doing these things,
Speaker 1: I always see for people that the momentum builds on itself.
Speaker 1: You know, we generally see people will go I'm feeling better,
Speaker 1: I feel different, I feel more confident and competent. Isn't
Speaker 1: like feeling like you're the best person in the world.
Speaker 1: It's the absence of all the junk. And we'll see
Speaker 1: that momentum build and keep doing it and continue on.
Speaker 1: And when we pair that with like learning to meet
Speaker 1: our own needs and doing some nervous system work, these
Speaker 1: are really powerful steps towards healing our internal world and
Speaker 1: becoming securely attached.
Speaker 3: Well, we are out of time. This has been a
Speaker 3: wonderful conversation. You and I are going to continue in
Speaker 3: the post show conversation because I want to talk about
Speaker 3: this idea that beliefs lead to thoughts, lead to emotions
Speaker 3: lead to actions, because I think it does work that way,
Speaker 3: but I also think it works other ways too, and
Speaker 3: I would love to talk with you about that. So listeners,
Speaker 3: if you'd like to get access to this post show conversation,
Speaker 3: add free episodes episodes that I do behind the scenes things,
Speaker 3: and you want to support something that's important to you,
Speaker 3: go to oneufeed dot net slash join tys. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much for coming on. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to
Speaker 1: be here and really grateful that we got to chat.
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