1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:22,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Not too long ago, I had a situation out 2 00:00:22,876 --> 00:00:25,916 Speaker 1: in nature. It was during a hike at a wildlife 3 00:00:25,916 --> 00:00:29,916 Speaker 1: refuge with my dog Davy and my girlfriend Hannah. Davy 4 00:00:30,036 --> 00:00:32,956 Speaker 1: was off leash, bounding through the trees, following her dumb 5 00:00:33,036 --> 00:00:36,396 Speaker 1: dumb hound dog knows. All of a sudden, the dog 6 00:00:36,516 --> 00:00:40,316 Speaker 1: tore past me with something hanging from her mouth. If 7 00:00:40,356 --> 00:00:42,876 Speaker 1: you have a dog, you will be familiar with this move. 8 00:00:43,276 --> 00:00:46,396 Speaker 1: The dog knows she probably shouldn't have the thing that's 9 00:00:46,436 --> 00:00:49,636 Speaker 1: in her mouth, but she's so proud of her quarry 10 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:53,396 Speaker 1: she can't help but show it off. As Davy was 11 00:00:53,476 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: running by me, she slowed down just enough so I 12 00:00:56,396 --> 00:01:01,796 Speaker 1: could see what was in her mouth. It was a squirrel. Now, 13 00:01:02,116 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 1: as long as I have had Davy, catching a live 14 00:01:04,996 --> 00:01:08,676 Speaker 1: animal has been the dream of her life. But because 15 00:01:08,836 --> 00:01:12,716 Speaker 1: row in, birds, butterflies, and bees are all way faster 16 00:01:12,796 --> 00:01:17,916 Speaker 1: than her, she's never fulfilled her great aspiration. When I 17 00:01:17,956 --> 00:01:21,236 Speaker 1: saw the lifeless animal flopping in the dog's mouth, I 18 00:01:21,356 --> 00:01:24,756 Speaker 1: shrieked and yelled at Davy to drop it, which she 19 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:28,516 Speaker 1: did immediately because she is a very good girl. As 20 00:01:28,556 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 1: the squirrel fell from Davy's chops, I realized something terrible. 21 00:01:33,716 --> 00:01:39,156 Speaker 1: The squirrel was alive, but barely, and that is when 22 00:01:39,156 --> 00:01:48,596 Speaker 1: our hike took a very sad turn. You're listening to 23 00:01:48,636 --> 00:01:52,276 Speaker 1: the Loudest Girl in the world, who I believe I've 24 00:01:52,316 --> 00:01:57,196 Speaker 1: proven irrefutably and beyond all doubt is me Lauren Ober. 25 00:01:58,196 --> 00:02:00,396 Speaker 1: The Loudest Girl in the World is a show about 26 00:02:00,436 --> 00:02:04,116 Speaker 1: finding yourself broken in a pretty dark place and emerging 27 00:02:04,156 --> 00:02:08,596 Speaker 1: from that place a mostly glued back together person. And 28 00:02:08,876 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: in our final episode, I guess I need to find 29 00:02:11,876 --> 00:02:14,636 Speaker 1: a way to make that happen. I need to become 30 00:02:14,756 --> 00:02:23,476 Speaker 1: whole here, or almost whole anyway, if it hasn't been 31 00:02:23,476 --> 00:02:27,036 Speaker 1: made abundantly clear in the past eight episodes, I have 32 00:02:27,436 --> 00:02:31,236 Speaker 1: very big feelings. I wander through the world as if 33 00:02:31,276 --> 00:02:35,236 Speaker 1: my first layer of very pale skin is missing. All 34 00:02:35,276 --> 00:02:38,876 Speaker 1: of my nerves are just hanging out, exposed, waiting to 35 00:02:38,916 --> 00:02:41,716 Speaker 1: be set off by a spiky dog hair stuck in 36 00:02:41,796 --> 00:02:46,716 Speaker 1: my bra or the Harley Davidson exhaust rumble, or the 37 00:02:46,956 --> 00:02:51,236 Speaker 1: sight of a helpless, injured squirrel, which is what happened 38 00:02:51,276 --> 00:02:54,836 Speaker 1: on our hike. The second I saw the squirrel lying 39 00:02:54,876 --> 00:02:58,676 Speaker 1: on the trail, struggling to move its leg, obviously broken, 40 00:02:59,476 --> 00:03:03,436 Speaker 1: I lost it I collapsed in a flood of whales. 41 00:03:04,276 --> 00:03:06,796 Speaker 1: I had enough sense in the moment to grab the 42 00:03:06,876 --> 00:03:09,596 Speaker 1: dog's collar so she didn't do more damage to the 43 00:03:09,596 --> 00:03:13,396 Speaker 1: injured creature. But that was all the control I could muster. 44 00:03:14,836 --> 00:03:19,836 Speaker 1: I squatted down on the trail, paralyzed by sobs. It 45 00:03:19,916 --> 00:03:23,356 Speaker 1: felt like I was weeping for ages. I just couldn't stop. 46 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:27,756 Speaker 1: The episode wasn't a total shock to Hannah. She had 47 00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 1: once seen me break down in the middle of a 48 00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:33,196 Speaker 1: street in Savannah when I saw a sweaty sway back 49 00:03:33,316 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: draft horse pulling a cart full of equally sweaty tourists around. 50 00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:43,156 Speaker 1: She knows that animals in distress, or animals being mistreated, 51 00:03:43,756 --> 00:03:47,836 Speaker 1: or old animals or unwell animals tend to elicit an 52 00:03:47,836 --> 00:03:53,236 Speaker 1: outsized emotional response in me. But still, this was a lot. 53 00:03:57,116 --> 00:04:00,076 Speaker 1: After many minutes, I was able to compose myself to 54 00:04:00,116 --> 00:04:04,196 Speaker 1: walk away from this situation, but not before telling Hannah 55 00:04:04,236 --> 00:04:06,716 Speaker 1: that the squirrel needed to be put out of its misery. 56 00:04:07,476 --> 00:04:10,836 Speaker 1: It would suffer and ltimately meet a gruesome end if 57 00:04:10,876 --> 00:04:15,436 Speaker 1: we didn't do something, or, more accurately, if Hannah didn't 58 00:04:15,436 --> 00:04:18,396 Speaker 1: do something, Because it was only us in those woods. 59 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:24,596 Speaker 1: To this day, some months later, I still don't know 60 00:04:24,676 --> 00:04:28,436 Speaker 1: if Hannah eased the squirrel over the Rainbow Bridge. I 61 00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:31,316 Speaker 1: just know that when we pass that same spot on 62 00:04:31,356 --> 00:04:34,276 Speaker 1: the trail later in our hike, the squirrel had been 63 00:04:34,316 --> 00:04:43,476 Speaker 1: released from its earthly body journey Mercy's Little Friend. The 64 00:04:43,596 --> 00:04:49,036 Speaker 1: thing about autistic meltdowns, these immense responses to emotional overload, 65 00:04:49,676 --> 00:04:54,436 Speaker 1: is that they are displays of primal, unadulterated feeling. They 66 00:04:54,436 --> 00:04:59,116 Speaker 1: are raw emotions, often stripped of words, meaning, and context. 67 00:04:59,756 --> 00:05:04,516 Speaker 1: They are purer and uncorrupted, though from the outside that's 68 00:05:04,676 --> 00:05:07,556 Speaker 1: not at all what they look like. To an observer. 69 00:05:07,796 --> 00:05:13,796 Speaker 1: My meltdown stay would most likely appear unhinged, maybe even deranged, 70 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:18,676 Speaker 1: and I don't like that one bit. After squirrel strife 71 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:21,716 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two happened, I talked to my new therapist 72 00:05:21,756 --> 00:05:24,916 Speaker 1: about it. Her name is Sandra, and a big part 73 00:05:24,916 --> 00:05:28,196 Speaker 1: of her practice is dedicated to autistic women and girls, 74 00:05:28,836 --> 00:05:32,596 Speaker 1: so she is not unfamiliar with the nature of the meltdown. 75 00:05:33,356 --> 00:05:36,276 Speaker 1: Our conversation was a real turning point for me in 76 00:05:36,396 --> 00:05:40,276 Speaker 1: terms of embracing my own feelings. So what is it 77 00:05:40,436 --> 00:05:45,236 Speaker 1: like to walk through the world feeling these really strong 78 00:05:45,276 --> 00:05:50,516 Speaker 1: feelings that can get ignited so easily. That's Sandra obviously, 79 00:05:51,276 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 1: Well who wants that? No one, right, I mean, because 80 00:05:57,396 --> 00:06:04,796 Speaker 1: because then you are disregulated, and that is not fun. 81 00:06:05,636 --> 00:06:10,596 Speaker 1: It doesn't just affect you, It affect the people who 82 00:06:10,676 --> 00:06:15,556 Speaker 1: you are close to. It probably prevents you from being 83 00:06:15,596 --> 00:06:19,956 Speaker 1: close to other people because it's like too much. Yeah, 84 00:06:19,996 --> 00:06:22,356 Speaker 1: And so here you are having all these feelings and 85 00:06:22,396 --> 00:06:24,116 Speaker 1: then on top of it, you feel like you push 86 00:06:24,156 --> 00:06:26,836 Speaker 1: away the people that you really care about, or that 87 00:06:27,356 --> 00:06:30,476 Speaker 1: there's a disconnect. They don't understand what's happening with you. 88 00:06:30,636 --> 00:06:34,756 Speaker 1: And then you feel like you're left with this feeling 89 00:06:34,796 --> 00:06:37,996 Speaker 1: and what sounds like to me like almost like shame. Oh, 90 00:06:38,036 --> 00:06:43,156 Speaker 1: it's massive shame, massive, massive, right, And you are wired 91 00:06:43,276 --> 00:06:48,076 Speaker 1: in such a way that when you experience that emotion, 92 00:06:48,636 --> 00:06:53,076 Speaker 1: you almost become like flooded by it. And so what 93 00:06:53,236 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 1: happens is that you experience that and then all of 94 00:06:57,316 --> 00:07:00,756 Speaker 1: a sudden, there's this internal critic inside of you who 95 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:02,796 Speaker 1: then tells you you're not supposed to feel that way, 96 00:07:02,796 --> 00:07:05,036 Speaker 1: You're not supposed to respond that way. There's this whole 97 00:07:05,116 --> 00:07:09,596 Speaker 1: narrative that's very shaming, and to walk through life like 98 00:07:09,716 --> 00:07:14,516 Speaker 1: that is so dismissive. It's like a whole secondary pain 99 00:07:15,756 --> 00:07:20,676 Speaker 1: tacked on top of how you actually feel. And I'm 100 00:07:20,676 --> 00:07:23,116 Speaker 1: wondering what would it be like to give yourself some 101 00:07:23,196 --> 00:07:25,596 Speaker 1: grace and to say that, How do you do that? 102 00:07:25,676 --> 00:07:30,116 Speaker 1: I don't know how to do that right? And that's 103 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:32,236 Speaker 1: what we're here to work on. Why don't you just 104 00:07:32,276 --> 00:07:39,156 Speaker 1: tell me the answer? I'm serious, like, like, what would 105 00:07:39,196 --> 00:07:42,436 Speaker 1: it be like? What would it be like if you 106 00:07:43,116 --> 00:07:47,796 Speaker 1: lived in a world where there was permission to have 107 00:07:47,956 --> 00:07:51,916 Speaker 1: those feelings? Then how do you think that would also 108 00:07:52,036 --> 00:08:01,116 Speaker 1: impact your feelings the output itself. I think that part 109 00:08:01,116 --> 00:08:05,596 Speaker 1: of our time together is trying to integrate this with 110 00:08:05,676 --> 00:08:11,836 Speaker 1: your diagnosis. A sense of a new identity and being 111 00:08:11,916 --> 00:08:17,116 Speaker 1: able to see yourself through that lens will give you 112 00:08:17,316 --> 00:08:20,476 Speaker 1: more grace to be yourself. And that's what I'm sort 113 00:08:20,516 --> 00:08:23,836 Speaker 1: of wishing for you, which is a very lovely thing 114 00:08:23,916 --> 00:08:27,236 Speaker 1: for anyone to want for you, the ability to be 115 00:08:27,356 --> 00:08:32,436 Speaker 1: unequivocally yourself. But rather than suit with that kindness, I 116 00:08:32,556 --> 00:08:37,636 Speaker 1: instead corrected Sandro when she mispronounced a word, because that's 117 00:08:37,676 --> 00:08:40,836 Speaker 1: the kind of jerk I am. And you're having this 118 00:08:40,956 --> 00:08:46,996 Speaker 1: narrative inside yourself that's shaming and casticizing yourself and so 119 00:08:48,276 --> 00:08:52,716 Speaker 1: when just as pastising yourself yeah or castigating yeah yeah, 120 00:08:52,876 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 1: somewhere in between, it was a combination of those two 121 00:08:54,956 --> 00:08:58,596 Speaker 1: words together. It's a portmanteau. I don't mean to correct you, 122 00:08:58,636 --> 00:09:01,756 Speaker 1: but I'm just so. But I appreciate it. I doubt that, 123 00:09:02,356 --> 00:09:06,796 Speaker 1: but ultimately Sandra's right. I do need to have grace 124 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:11,476 Speaker 1: about my big feelings, because big feelings are an autistic gift. 125 00:09:13,436 --> 00:09:17,676 Speaker 1: One of the biggest misunderstandings about autistic people is that 126 00:09:17,716 --> 00:09:20,956 Speaker 1: we are robots devoid of emotion, and that is just 127 00:09:21,076 --> 00:09:26,316 Speaker 1: patently false. Most autistic people actually have a glut of emotion, 128 00:09:26,836 --> 00:09:30,876 Speaker 1: so much so that often the pipelines and pathways to 129 00:09:31,036 --> 00:09:35,756 Speaker 1: express that emotion get clogged up. Sometimes the right emotion 130 00:09:35,916 --> 00:09:39,596 Speaker 1: doesn't come out at the right time, and sometimes no 131 00:09:39,676 --> 00:09:43,156 Speaker 1: emotion comes out at all because it's just too big, 132 00:09:43,796 --> 00:09:48,716 Speaker 1: like a giant emotional hairball. In this final stage of reckoning, 133 00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:51,596 Speaker 1: I'm trying to be okay with all the big feelings 134 00:09:51,596 --> 00:09:54,316 Speaker 1: I put out into the world. I'm trying to give 135 00:09:54,396 --> 00:09:58,916 Speaker 1: myself permission to feel. But before I can truly be 136 00:09:58,996 --> 00:10:02,796 Speaker 1: at ease with my brain and embrace the deluxe emotions 137 00:10:02,836 --> 00:10:06,876 Speaker 1: it generates, I need to do one big thing. I 138 00:10:07,076 --> 00:10:11,236 Speaker 1: have to apologize. I have to take accountability for the 139 00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:15,796 Speaker 1: way my big feelings impacted someone else. And to do that, 140 00:10:15,996 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 1: I have to go visit my ex partner Becca. You 141 00:10:22,796 --> 00:10:25,796 Speaker 1: met Becca in the last episode. She offered to be 142 00:10:25,836 --> 00:10:28,876 Speaker 1: my phone of friend after I revealed my diagnosis to 143 00:10:28,916 --> 00:10:32,076 Speaker 1: my family. It will probably be hard or the reactions, 144 00:10:32,076 --> 00:10:34,116 Speaker 1: and I could feel that you can just call me. 145 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:37,676 Speaker 1: Becca and I dated for six years and lived together 146 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:41,356 Speaker 1: in Vermont for four and even though we split up 147 00:10:41,356 --> 00:10:44,316 Speaker 1: a decade ago, we've stuck around in each other's lives 148 00:10:44,436 --> 00:10:47,876 Speaker 1: because we're family and because she can't seem to get 149 00:10:47,956 --> 00:10:52,276 Speaker 1: rid of me. Becca is easily the kindest person I know. 150 00:10:53,196 --> 00:10:56,316 Speaker 1: When we were together, she was always doing little mitzvahs, 151 00:10:56,756 --> 00:11:00,276 Speaker 1: like driving our elderly not all their neighbor to pick 152 00:11:00,356 --> 00:11:03,436 Speaker 1: up cat food at the pet store. Becca is the 153 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 1: type of person who politely listens to a political Canvasser's 154 00:11:07,756 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 1: whole sidewalk Biel, whereas I rudely walked past without giving 155 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 1: them a second glance. No, I do not have a 156 00:11:15,436 --> 00:11:19,396 Speaker 1: minute for the environment, sir. Before Becca and I moved 157 00:11:19,396 --> 00:11:22,196 Speaker 1: in together, neither of us had lived with a partner, 158 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 1: so already our cohabitation was going to be an adventure. Also, 159 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:31,636 Speaker 1: we were young in gay years, late twenties, early thirties, 160 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:35,636 Speaker 1: so we were kind of primed for a little drama. 161 00:11:35,796 --> 00:11:39,956 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was just me. Becca's not naturally a fighter, 162 00:11:40,076 --> 00:11:45,316 Speaker 1: and I always have my fists half cocked figuratively. When 163 00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,916 Speaker 1: we shared a home, I would freak out about things 164 00:11:47,996 --> 00:11:50,676 Speaker 1: that would seem like no big deal to someone else, 165 00:11:51,356 --> 00:11:54,076 Speaker 1: and I felt like I had no ability to control 166 00:11:54,116 --> 00:11:59,116 Speaker 1: those freakouts. Exhibit A. One time I went out of 167 00:11:59,156 --> 00:12:02,876 Speaker 1: town and Becca rearranged some furniture. When I came back, 168 00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 1: I was a total junk show. I just couldn't handle 169 00:12:06,996 --> 00:12:11,356 Speaker 1: the change. Another time, I remember a vigorous debate on 170 00:12:11,396 --> 00:12:16,116 Speaker 1: the merits of Becca's supernumerous coffee mug collection, which ended 171 00:12:16,196 --> 00:12:21,276 Speaker 1: with one of us and tears not me. For years, 172 00:12:21,436 --> 00:12:24,796 Speaker 1: I felt wretched about all that, the yelling and the 173 00:12:24,956 --> 00:12:29,636 Speaker 1: crying and the totally blown out of proportion reactions. But 174 00:12:29,716 --> 00:12:33,556 Speaker 1: it's only recently, in the wake of my autism diagnosis, 175 00:12:33,556 --> 00:12:36,476 Speaker 1: that I have fully been able to process my behavior 176 00:12:36,556 --> 00:12:40,796 Speaker 1: throughout our relationship. And what I've come to understand is 177 00:12:40,876 --> 00:12:44,276 Speaker 1: that if only I had the information then that I 178 00:12:44,356 --> 00:12:48,276 Speaker 1: have now. Our life together would have been fewer landmines 179 00:12:48,316 --> 00:12:52,236 Speaker 1: and more clearly understood needs. There would have been more 180 00:12:52,356 --> 00:12:57,356 Speaker 1: open lines of communication and less misunderstanding, and I definitely 181 00:12:57,396 --> 00:13:04,996 Speaker 1: wouldn't have lost my marbles over mugs Before I could 182 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:08,396 Speaker 1: move on with my cool, new autistic life. I had 183 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:11,156 Speaker 1: to talk to about about all of this. I had 184 00:13:11,236 --> 00:13:15,156 Speaker 1: to be accountable. If I didn't, what would I've learned 185 00:13:15,196 --> 00:13:19,676 Speaker 1: from all of this? So after the break, I hop 186 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:23,036 Speaker 1: on a plane to see Becca in Atlanta, sort of 187 00:13:23,076 --> 00:13:28,636 Speaker 1: an explanation slash apology tour. Huh. I should have had 188 00:13:28,676 --> 00:13:52,316 Speaker 1: t shirts printed for the occasions when you are me, 189 00:13:52,516 --> 00:13:57,196 Speaker 1: the flying experience is less than enjoyable. Not because I'm 190 00:13:57,236 --> 00:14:00,916 Speaker 1: scared of flying, because I'm not, but because the sheer 191 00:14:01,116 --> 00:14:04,356 Speaker 1: crush of people flying to and fro means there are 192 00:14:04,356 --> 00:14:08,276 Speaker 1: a whole lot of things you can't control. To wit, 193 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:12,436 Speaker 1: the guy sitting next to me in the terminal must 194 00:14:12,476 --> 00:14:16,636 Speaker 1: have put hand sanitizer on his hands fifty two times 195 00:14:16,676 --> 00:14:20,316 Speaker 1: in five minutes, just rubbing his hands over and over 196 00:14:20,356 --> 00:14:22,636 Speaker 1: and over and over and over and over and over again. 197 00:14:24,756 --> 00:14:26,556 Speaker 1: And it felt bad for him, but also I wanted 198 00:14:26,596 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: to punch him, See what I mean? May ever one Sadly, 199 00:14:35,476 --> 00:14:38,876 Speaker 1: I was not flying on air Autismia and the pilot 200 00:14:39,076 --> 00:14:43,236 Speaker 1: was not Captain Autismo, though he did sound an awful 201 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:46,316 Speaker 1: lot like him. We'll trying to find him a smooth 202 00:14:46,396 --> 00:14:48,556 Speaker 1: ride for you, as as message with him, thanks for 203 00:14:48,636 --> 00:14:53,756 Speaker 1: joining us once again. We I'm a board. When I landed, 204 00:14:53,836 --> 00:14:56,396 Speaker 1: Becca was there to pick me up with her dog, 205 00:14:56,516 --> 00:15:01,476 Speaker 1: disco Into, who momentarily forgot how much she actually loved 206 00:15:01,476 --> 00:15:05,676 Speaker 1: and missed me. Hello, how did you give yourself fast? 207 00:15:05,876 --> 00:15:12,476 Speaker 1: That's waiting for you. I'm sorry about he rules. Becca 208 00:15:12,556 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 1: lives and works in one of my favorite cities, Atlanta. 209 00:15:17,396 --> 00:15:20,356 Speaker 1: My trip this time was brief, so we mostly just 210 00:15:20,476 --> 00:15:24,676 Speaker 1: had time to eat at exceptional breakfast spots I love grits, 211 00:15:25,596 --> 00:15:29,196 Speaker 1: walk her dog, and talk about why she still doesn't 212 00:15:29,236 --> 00:15:32,156 Speaker 1: own a real sofa at forty three years of age. 213 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:36,116 Speaker 1: On my last morning there, I pulled out all my 214 00:15:36,196 --> 00:15:39,476 Speaker 1: recording equipment and we got into the real reason for 215 00:15:39,596 --> 00:15:44,396 Speaker 1: my trip. It made me anxious to be accountable. It's 216 00:15:44,436 --> 00:15:47,836 Speaker 1: hard to admit when you've been kind of sucky, but 217 00:15:48,196 --> 00:15:51,596 Speaker 1: Becca was a safe person to do that with. Okay, 218 00:15:51,636 --> 00:15:57,236 Speaker 1: are you comfortable there? Relatively comfortable? Okay? Oh my God, 219 00:15:57,236 --> 00:15:59,436 Speaker 1: your dogs looking if I move around a little bit 220 00:15:59,476 --> 00:16:02,996 Speaker 1: and shift, is that okay? Yeah? I mean unless you 221 00:16:03,076 --> 00:16:05,156 Speaker 1: like walk out of the room. No, no, but I 222 00:16:05,236 --> 00:16:08,236 Speaker 1: might just need to like move my butet onto a 223 00:16:08,236 --> 00:16:12,996 Speaker 1: different cheek or boy, where are we right now? Are 224 00:16:12,996 --> 00:16:17,876 Speaker 1: we starting? We started like ten minutes ago? Oh where 225 00:16:17,916 --> 00:16:21,676 Speaker 1: are we? Yeah, we're in my house in Atlanta? So 226 00:16:21,676 --> 00:16:25,436 Speaker 1: where are we? Specifically? Right now? We're in the main 227 00:16:25,556 --> 00:16:28,356 Speaker 1: sitting area. I'm on a futon and you're on a 228 00:16:28,396 --> 00:16:32,476 Speaker 1: bean bag chair. And how old are you? I don't 229 00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:39,116 Speaker 1: see how that's relevant. I mean just I'm just wondering 230 00:16:40,156 --> 00:16:43,476 Speaker 1: what type of people have futons bean bag chairs. Well, 231 00:16:43,516 --> 00:16:46,996 Speaker 1: I am planning to get it actual sofa, actual so 232 00:16:47,196 --> 00:16:49,036 Speaker 1: but I'm going to keep my bean bag chair for 233 00:16:49,116 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 1: the reading book what the reading nook? Yes? Okay, Well, 234 00:16:56,276 --> 00:16:59,036 Speaker 1: clearly I didn't fly all the way down to Atlanta 235 00:16:59,116 --> 00:17:02,436 Speaker 1: from DC to talk to Becca about her interior design. 236 00:17:03,236 --> 00:17:06,156 Speaker 1: We had some business to attend to, but first we 237 00:17:06,196 --> 00:17:09,796 Speaker 1: had to take a brief detour down memory Lane. We 238 00:17:09,956 --> 00:17:12,316 Speaker 1: talked about how we met, which was on a group 239 00:17:12,356 --> 00:17:15,116 Speaker 1: bike ride when we both lived in Vermont. Was supposed 240 00:17:15,116 --> 00:17:17,876 Speaker 1: to be a mountain bike ride, but we couldn't do 241 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:19,516 Speaker 1: a mountain bike ride because it was rainy, so we 242 00:17:19,596 --> 00:17:22,596 Speaker 1: ended up on a road bike ride. Then we talked 243 00:17:22,636 --> 00:17:24,876 Speaker 1: about dating and why we were drawn to each other. 244 00:17:25,516 --> 00:17:29,276 Speaker 1: Why did you want to go out with me? Well, 245 00:17:30,036 --> 00:17:35,796 Speaker 1: you were art from my stunning good luck. I loved, 246 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:38,956 Speaker 1: absolutely loved your sense of humor. I had just never 247 00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:44,716 Speaker 1: enjoyed being around someone maybe laugh so much. And we 248 00:17:44,796 --> 00:17:47,476 Speaker 1: talked about our decision to move in together, which was 249 00:17:47,476 --> 00:17:49,596 Speaker 1: the first for both of us. I guess I don't 250 00:17:49,636 --> 00:17:54,156 Speaker 1: remember the moment when we made the decision. I don't either, 251 00:17:54,876 --> 00:17:57,836 Speaker 1: because I feel like it wasn't so much significance. It 252 00:17:57,956 --> 00:18:00,676 Speaker 1: was like, oh, your lease was up. I didn't like 253 00:18:01,436 --> 00:18:05,516 Speaker 1: my place. It was very it felt very practical. It 254 00:18:05,556 --> 00:18:08,556 Speaker 1: was lovely to amble down the old lane of memories 255 00:18:08,556 --> 00:18:10,676 Speaker 1: with back up, but that wasn't what I was there 256 00:18:10,716 --> 00:18:14,036 Speaker 1: to do. We had to get into some hard stuff. 257 00:18:14,716 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 1: I definitely have a lot of recollections of like when 258 00:18:19,956 --> 00:18:25,116 Speaker 1: things were not so easy, and they're generally because of me. 259 00:18:25,556 --> 00:18:29,156 Speaker 1: But I wonder if you have like recollections and don't 260 00:18:29,156 --> 00:18:32,316 Speaker 1: really won't hurt my feelings about like things that were 261 00:18:32,916 --> 00:18:38,116 Speaker 1: like not easy or challenging or whatever. The things that 262 00:18:38,196 --> 00:18:41,716 Speaker 1: I remember being difficult were had to do with like 263 00:18:44,116 --> 00:18:49,036 Speaker 1: cleaning or maybe things that I did that would bring 264 00:18:49,116 --> 00:18:52,916 Speaker 1: up something really intense for you specifically, Like I don't 265 00:18:52,916 --> 00:18:55,356 Speaker 1: think you were a messy person. I just think like 266 00:18:55,636 --> 00:18:59,036 Speaker 1: maybe they were like bits of paper lying around or 267 00:18:59,076 --> 00:19:02,636 Speaker 1: what were they called? Yeah, what did I call? There 268 00:19:02,716 --> 00:19:06,716 Speaker 1: was just one word, your piles. Oh yeah, you had piles. 269 00:19:06,956 --> 00:19:09,436 Speaker 1: And then but sometimes there were like little shreds paper 270 00:19:09,996 --> 00:19:13,476 Speaker 1: I would I put put I would put all of 271 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:17,996 Speaker 1: my notes. Yeah, so I hated on scraps of paper. Yeah. 272 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:22,356 Speaker 1: So there were some scraps and things that um, I'm 273 00:19:22,396 --> 00:19:26,556 Speaker 1: I cleaned up behind you that didn't go over so well. Often, 274 00:19:28,316 --> 00:19:31,636 Speaker 1: like in retrospect, I probably should I know, I should 275 00:19:31,716 --> 00:19:36,196 Speaker 1: have handled that differently, handled what well? Just um, if 276 00:19:36,196 --> 00:19:40,956 Speaker 1: there was something that you were doing that I wanted 277 00:19:41,396 --> 00:19:43,876 Speaker 1: that bothered me to just talk to you about it, Okay, 278 00:19:43,996 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 1: just we were just getting going on our chat. So 279 00:19:47,596 --> 00:19:52,316 Speaker 1: Becca wasn't quite emboldened to tell the full story. Basically, 280 00:19:52,516 --> 00:19:56,236 Speaker 1: my organizational system at the time was little piles of 281 00:19:56,276 --> 00:19:59,356 Speaker 1: scrap paper. I don't know why, but that's just how 282 00:19:59,436 --> 00:20:02,796 Speaker 1: I kept my life organized. And for Becca that was 283 00:20:02,916 --> 00:20:07,556 Speaker 1: dysfunctional and created lots of clutter. So she would gather 284 00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:11,916 Speaker 1: up all the piles to one master pile, and predictably, 285 00:20:12,316 --> 00:20:16,556 Speaker 1: I would lose it, yelling, pouting, a whole panoply of 286 00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:22,116 Speaker 1: outsized emotional responses. Becca moving my piles was like Becca 287 00:20:22,236 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 1: snuffing out my humanity. I don't mean to be dramatic, 288 00:20:26,036 --> 00:20:28,956 Speaker 1: but that's how it felt at the time. And I 289 00:20:28,996 --> 00:20:31,636 Speaker 1: know Becca didn't want to say it, but a person 290 00:20:31,716 --> 00:20:35,596 Speaker 1: like that is not easy to live with. The piles 291 00:20:35,596 --> 00:20:39,636 Speaker 1: weren't the only cleaning issue we had. Well, I remember, 292 00:20:39,796 --> 00:20:43,476 Speaker 1: like I did all of the cooking, yeah, mostly, and 293 00:20:43,516 --> 00:20:48,436 Speaker 1: it was vegetarian cooking, and that was okay. So then 294 00:20:48,476 --> 00:20:52,436 Speaker 1: I really was hoping you would have cleaned the kitchen, 295 00:20:54,156 --> 00:20:58,116 Speaker 1: which you did sometimes what was but you you wanted 296 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:02,996 Speaker 1: to be done right aft, right away, and so my 297 00:21:03,116 --> 00:21:07,436 Speaker 1: feeling was, well, whether it gets done tonight or tomorrow morning, 298 00:21:07,676 --> 00:21:10,276 Speaker 1: what does it matter. I thought you were going to 299 00:21:10,316 --> 00:21:14,396 Speaker 1: say when you said that you largely cooked vegetarian the 300 00:21:14,516 --> 00:21:17,596 Speaker 1: time that you made meat in the pods, when I 301 00:21:17,636 --> 00:21:21,236 Speaker 1: was like away and I had like a full blown meltdown. Okay, 302 00:21:21,236 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 1: basically I'm a strict vegetarian. Becca is not. One time 303 00:21:26,356 --> 00:21:28,716 Speaker 1: I came home from a trip and realized that while 304 00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:31,116 Speaker 1: I was away, she had been cooking meat in our 305 00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:36,156 Speaker 1: shared cookware, which in my mind was verboten. I can't 306 00:21:36,156 --> 00:21:39,676 Speaker 1: remember a specific time that you did that, though, oh 307 00:21:39,836 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 1: like when I cooked meat while you were gone, But 308 00:21:42,316 --> 00:21:43,876 Speaker 1: it was because it was the first time, and I 309 00:21:43,916 --> 00:21:49,396 Speaker 1: had a full on meltdown about it, Like I we 310 00:21:49,476 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 1: had a massive fight. It's such bad behavior and it's 311 00:21:52,676 --> 00:21:55,596 Speaker 1: so gross to recount now, like I'm embarrassed, But I 312 00:21:55,676 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 1: was so upset that there would be any kind of 313 00:21:59,436 --> 00:22:04,196 Speaker 1: animal product in a thing that would later be used 314 00:22:05,356 --> 00:22:08,476 Speaker 1: to make food I would eat. It was more like 315 00:22:08,556 --> 00:22:12,156 Speaker 1: the prince bowl was so upsetting and I couldn't move 316 00:22:12,236 --> 00:22:18,036 Speaker 1: away from that position. Looking back, your reaction was so 317 00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:25,156 Speaker 1: strong and emotional and overblown, you know, we both would say. 318 00:22:26,076 --> 00:22:30,876 Speaker 1: And I didn't understand how seemingly out of your control. 319 00:22:30,876 --> 00:22:35,876 Speaker 1: It felt about like foods in general, because you know, 320 00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:42,836 Speaker 1: we had other instances. There was this dish that I 321 00:22:42,916 --> 00:22:47,436 Speaker 1: often made. It was like a Puerto Rican bean and 322 00:22:47,876 --> 00:22:55,636 Speaker 1: pumpkin stew and capers were an ingredient in this dish, 323 00:22:55,716 --> 00:22:58,116 Speaker 1: and it was vegetarian. I loved it. I knew you 324 00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:01,196 Speaker 1: didn't like capers, but I was, like, I didn't think 325 00:23:01,276 --> 00:23:05,516 Speaker 1: that they'll just dissolve into the stew Editor's note. They 326 00:23:05,556 --> 00:23:09,036 Speaker 1: did not, so I'd put them in. I did not leave, 327 00:23:09,716 --> 00:23:17,316 Speaker 1: not expecting the backlash that I received. Who knew the 328 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:20,996 Speaker 1: depth of emotion that could be triggered by the mere caper. 329 00:23:24,276 --> 00:23:26,556 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm laughing now, but it's like I think 330 00:23:26,596 --> 00:23:29,396 Speaker 1: I'm laughing through the embarrassment. I mean, I think that 331 00:23:29,436 --> 00:23:32,636 Speaker 1: you're being very generous in your description of it, because basically, 332 00:23:32,716 --> 00:23:39,676 Speaker 1: like again like full like meltdown mode. But but I 333 00:23:39,716 --> 00:23:43,796 Speaker 1: need to pop in and explain that my reaction was disgusting. 334 00:23:44,636 --> 00:23:47,036 Speaker 1: A caper caught my eye on my spoon and I 335 00:23:47,116 --> 00:23:50,516 Speaker 1: asked Becca what it was. She told me flat out, 336 00:23:50,796 --> 00:23:53,516 Speaker 1: it's a caper, and then I screamed at her for 337 00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:56,916 Speaker 1: purposely putting capers in even though she knew I didn't 338 00:23:56,956 --> 00:24:00,236 Speaker 1: like them. I grilled her about why she had done 339 00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:03,676 Speaker 1: such a thing, and I would not stop yelling until 340 00:24:03,716 --> 00:24:07,596 Speaker 1: I got all my stress out. Remember, I'm a fighter 341 00:24:07,676 --> 00:24:11,916 Speaker 1: when it comes to fight, flight or freeze. Yeah, and 342 00:24:11,956 --> 00:24:13,916 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen your respond like that 343 00:24:13,956 --> 00:24:18,396 Speaker 1: before to anything related to food. But I wonder I 344 00:24:18,436 --> 00:24:21,396 Speaker 1: wish that I could go back and ask myself if, 345 00:24:21,476 --> 00:24:24,076 Speaker 1: like I had a moment where I was like, this 346 00:24:24,156 --> 00:24:27,596 Speaker 1: isn't personal, Like this isn't about me. There's something going 347 00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:30,636 Speaker 1: on with Lauren. This is this is real. This is 348 00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:33,836 Speaker 1: her feelings are real her. It's not like, yeah, she 349 00:24:33,956 --> 00:24:37,996 Speaker 1: just doesn't like the caper. But I think part of 350 00:24:37,996 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: my reason for wanting to talk to you that like 351 00:24:43,116 --> 00:24:46,796 Speaker 1: I am coming to understanding, was about my own behavior 352 00:24:46,836 --> 00:24:49,756 Speaker 1: and you know, things that sort of have set me 353 00:24:49,796 --> 00:24:54,436 Speaker 1: off in the reasons why and how that manifests itself. 354 00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:56,836 Speaker 1: And again, this is not like me trying to absolve 355 00:24:57,036 --> 00:24:59,156 Speaker 1: my behavior, but I want to explain to you kind 356 00:24:59,196 --> 00:25:02,556 Speaker 1: of where I think this fits, which is that it's 357 00:25:02,876 --> 00:25:10,036 Speaker 1: when the hypersensitivity kicks in or the stimulus is too much, 358 00:25:10,276 --> 00:25:18,036 Speaker 1: like the response is like this feeling of like everything 359 00:25:18,076 --> 00:25:22,436 Speaker 1: feels so out of control. It feels like there's like 360 00:25:23,036 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 1: full on like rage at the thing that created, yeah, 361 00:25:28,596 --> 00:25:34,796 Speaker 1: the stimulus or the overstimulus or whatever. There were other 362 00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:38,676 Speaker 1: instances that I wanted to apologize for, that time when 363 00:25:38,676 --> 00:25:41,396 Speaker 1: we almost broke up painting the bathroom a new color. 364 00:25:42,116 --> 00:25:47,596 Speaker 1: Many autistic people, myself included do not like change. Or 365 00:25:47,756 --> 00:25:50,276 Speaker 1: then there was the time when I made Becca cry 366 00:25:50,436 --> 00:25:53,716 Speaker 1: by yelling at her to walk faster because we were 367 00:25:53,756 --> 00:25:57,396 Speaker 1: going to be late to a concert. Some autistic people 368 00:25:57,596 --> 00:26:03,476 Speaker 1: struggle with executive functioning, which can create overwhelming anxiety around timing. 369 00:26:04,436 --> 00:26:06,916 Speaker 1: The time I threw her wallet out the window of 370 00:26:06,956 --> 00:26:10,396 Speaker 1: my car while we were driving, Yeah, I don't think 371 00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:13,276 Speaker 1: that has an autistic explanation. That just seems like I 372 00:26:13,396 --> 00:26:18,236 Speaker 1: was being an asshole. I think where the rub is 373 00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:23,356 Speaker 1: is like not understanding the origin of the emotion and 374 00:26:24,236 --> 00:26:27,436 Speaker 1: then not understanding how to manage the emotion after that. 375 00:26:27,796 --> 00:26:33,956 Speaker 1: And that is very hard because you were and continue 376 00:26:33,996 --> 00:26:35,676 Speaker 1: to be a person who I'd love and care about 377 00:26:35,716 --> 00:26:40,556 Speaker 1: a great deal and also somebody who was always good 378 00:26:40,676 --> 00:26:45,036 Speaker 1: in being thoughtful and taking care of me. And to 379 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:51,436 Speaker 1: treat somebody like that is really repugnant. Do you need 380 00:26:52,236 --> 00:27:00,356 Speaker 1: anything from me in terms of like more of an 381 00:27:00,356 --> 00:27:07,316 Speaker 1: explanation or an apology or an atonement or anything about temper, 382 00:27:08,236 --> 00:27:14,036 Speaker 1: bad behavior or bad reactions that or anything that made 383 00:27:14,076 --> 00:27:20,516 Speaker 1: you feel particularly bad about yourself? Or I mean, no, 384 00:27:20,756 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 1: I don't need And you know, even I get that 385 00:27:24,556 --> 00:27:29,956 Speaker 1: you're without saying that you're sorry or apologizing you are. 386 00:27:30,156 --> 00:27:32,396 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that that's how you feel. I 387 00:27:32,396 --> 00:27:34,716 Speaker 1: don't need you to s I am sorry, and I 388 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:37,116 Speaker 1: do apologize. I know I think you said it, but 389 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:39,476 Speaker 1: I also feel it, and I think I would have 390 00:27:39,516 --> 00:27:45,436 Speaker 1: felt it even if you weren't didn't have this diagnosis. 391 00:27:45,476 --> 00:27:49,076 Speaker 1: And we're taking on this project and made in getting 392 00:27:49,116 --> 00:27:52,996 Speaker 1: all these realizations. I want to be really clear here, 393 00:27:53,556 --> 00:27:57,396 Speaker 1: I was not asking Becca for forgiveness. I wanted to 394 00:27:57,436 --> 00:28:01,676 Speaker 1: explain my behavior, not excuse it. Using this new lens 395 00:28:01,716 --> 00:28:06,876 Speaker 1: of neurodivergence, I needed to take accountability without teetering into 396 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:10,796 Speaker 1: a shamed spiral or getting all of Haiti. The more 397 00:28:10,836 --> 00:28:13,636 Speaker 1: I am able to unpack my big feelings of the past, 398 00:28:14,116 --> 00:28:17,756 Speaker 1: the more I am able to manage future situations without 399 00:28:17,876 --> 00:28:22,196 Speaker 1: crying or shouting or losing my mind, and the more 400 00:28:22,236 --> 00:28:25,876 Speaker 1: compassion I am able to have for myself. We had 401 00:28:25,916 --> 00:28:28,876 Speaker 1: to wrap up our chat disco. The dog was losing 402 00:28:28,876 --> 00:28:33,276 Speaker 1: her patience and there wasn't much left to say. Oh no, 403 00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:38,076 Speaker 1: I think I just like look forward to learning more 404 00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:43,636 Speaker 1: about it now. I think now like since then, and 405 00:28:43,796 --> 00:28:47,836 Speaker 1: moving forward like I'm I'm definitely going to leave the 406 00:28:47,876 --> 00:28:51,836 Speaker 1: capers out of the stew It's just not like. It's like, 407 00:28:53,036 --> 00:28:57,916 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not, and I'm not gonna like. I 408 00:28:58,036 --> 00:29:02,236 Speaker 1: left Atlanta feeling lighter than I arrived. I accomplished what 409 00:29:02,356 --> 00:29:05,676 Speaker 1: I set out to do, not just with Becca, but 410 00:29:05,916 --> 00:29:09,596 Speaker 1: with all of it. There just wasn't really anything left 411 00:29:09,636 --> 00:29:12,676 Speaker 1: to do on the autism front. I found a doctor 412 00:29:12,716 --> 00:29:16,076 Speaker 1: and got evaluated. I got my education on and read 413 00:29:16,076 --> 00:29:18,996 Speaker 1: all the books I told my friends and my family, 414 00:29:19,676 --> 00:29:24,236 Speaker 1: and I began seeing an autism competent therapist. Seemed to 415 00:29:24,316 --> 00:29:29,036 Speaker 1: me it was time to just live, to fully inhabit 416 00:29:29,236 --> 00:29:32,836 Speaker 1: my autistic self and all the jumbo emotions that come 417 00:29:32,876 --> 00:29:35,676 Speaker 1: with it. It was time to step out of the 418 00:29:35,716 --> 00:29:38,236 Speaker 1: box that Miss Patterson put me in all those many 419 00:29:38,316 --> 00:29:43,316 Speaker 1: years ago and step into a kinder, more expansive way 420 00:29:43,356 --> 00:29:47,556 Speaker 1: of thinking about myself and my feelings. But that doesn't 421 00:29:47,596 --> 00:29:51,036 Speaker 1: come naturally to me. I might need a little help 422 00:29:51,076 --> 00:29:54,756 Speaker 1: on that front. So after the break, the lead singer 423 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:58,436 Speaker 1: of the Grammy nominated band Big Thief comes to my aid. 424 00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:11,636 Speaker 1: When I was in the middle of making this project, 425 00:30:11,916 --> 00:30:15,156 Speaker 1: almost a year after I got my diagnosis, a friend 426 00:30:15,156 --> 00:30:17,876 Speaker 1: of mine asked if I might be interested in house sitting. 427 00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:21,116 Speaker 1: She lives in the far west Texas town of Marfa, 428 00:30:21,396 --> 00:30:25,396 Speaker 1: known for its ultra cool art scene and mystery light phenomenon. 429 00:30:25,876 --> 00:30:29,116 Speaker 1: So of course I said, yes, your girl needed a rest, 430 00:30:29,956 --> 00:30:33,116 Speaker 1: and what better place for a very fair ginger to 431 00:30:33,196 --> 00:30:38,596 Speaker 1: do that than the largest desert in North America. One 432 00:30:38,636 --> 00:30:41,676 Speaker 1: evening during my Marfa's Day, I hopped in my rented 433 00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:45,316 Speaker 1: Ford escape to catch the sunset on a precipitous canyon 434 00:30:45,396 --> 00:30:51,676 Speaker 1: road near the Mexico border. The scenery was unlike anything 435 00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:56,436 Speaker 1: this devoted East Coaster had ever seen. The canyons and 436 00:30:56,476 --> 00:31:00,396 Speaker 1: the hills shimmered with luminous reds and golds, and the 437 00:31:00,556 --> 00:31:04,956 Speaker 1: rolling ranch land was just miles and miles of undulating green. 438 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:09,876 Speaker 1: As the sunset changed the sky from a soothing blue 439 00:31:09,996 --> 00:31:19,876 Speaker 1: to an opalescent purple, I put on an album songs 440 00:31:19,996 --> 00:31:24,036 Speaker 1: by Adrian Lanker. It's the twenty twenty solo release from 441 00:31:24,036 --> 00:31:26,836 Speaker 1: the lead singer of the indie rock band Big Thief, 442 00:31:33,956 --> 00:31:38,036 Speaker 1: a sort of low fig breakup slash pandemic record, and 443 00:31:38,236 --> 00:31:50,036 Speaker 1: it just kind of fit my driving moved three songs in. 444 00:31:50,356 --> 00:31:54,836 Speaker 1: During a track called anything, I just lost it, Big 445 00:31:54,956 --> 00:31:57,996 Speaker 1: fat tears dropped from my eyes and I couldn't see 446 00:31:58,036 --> 00:32:03,156 Speaker 1: the ribbon of gravel road ahead of me. I was overcome. 447 00:32:07,716 --> 00:32:10,076 Speaker 1: I'm driving to see the sun that in a canyon. 448 00:32:10,316 --> 00:32:12,436 Speaker 1: A friend told me that it was worth going to see, 449 00:32:12,436 --> 00:32:14,396 Speaker 1: and so that's what I'm doing. And I felt like 450 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:20,436 Speaker 1: I needed to pull over because I was driving in 451 00:32:20,436 --> 00:32:27,596 Speaker 1: this extremely beautiful landscape, like unlike anything I've ever seen 452 00:32:27,636 --> 00:32:32,796 Speaker 1: in my life, like and it just like struck me 453 00:32:34,236 --> 00:32:41,156 Speaker 1: because I feel so moved by the scenery and also 454 00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:48,116 Speaker 1: feels so sad about how I felt about myself for 455 00:32:48,156 --> 00:32:52,436 Speaker 1: so long. You know, I've just been holding on to 456 00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:59,436 Speaker 1: so much pain with regard to my diagnosis. You know, 457 00:33:01,316 --> 00:33:04,436 Speaker 1: I feel like, for forty three years, I've never gotten 458 00:33:04,476 --> 00:33:08,876 Speaker 1: any relief about how I feel different than other people, 459 00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:12,396 Speaker 1: capable of certain things that other people are capable of. 460 00:33:13,436 --> 00:33:16,076 Speaker 1: As I was driving and listening to that album, I 461 00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:19,156 Speaker 1: remember being struck by the fact that Adrian seemed to 462 00:33:19,196 --> 00:33:22,716 Speaker 1: be so in control of her feelings and had such 463 00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:27,276 Speaker 1: easy access to them. Her understanding of herself and her 464 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:32,596 Speaker 1: emotions seemed effortless. Loving listening to this music, thinking like 465 00:33:35,316 --> 00:33:41,836 Speaker 1: there's just the beauty of it, and how she was 466 00:33:41,876 --> 00:33:44,276 Speaker 1: able to express what she wanted. And I could so 467 00:33:44,516 --> 00:33:50,036 Speaker 1: very frequently do that. I just feel very moved and 468 00:33:50,156 --> 00:33:54,716 Speaker 1: also very sad about all of those pain and I 469 00:33:54,796 --> 00:33:57,236 Speaker 1: just want to find a way to let it go 470 00:33:57,476 --> 00:33:59,836 Speaker 1: and to move on. And also I want to know 471 00:33:59,916 --> 00:34:02,076 Speaker 1: what the hell of ranch is, Like, I haven't seen 472 00:34:02,116 --> 00:34:04,516 Speaker 1: a cow once, and I've been driving for an hour 473 00:34:04,956 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 1: and they're no cows. I don't know. I just want 474 00:34:13,836 --> 00:34:24,756 Speaker 1: to feel better. That drive was profound, setting the music, 475 00:34:24,956 --> 00:34:27,876 Speaker 1: the fact that I saw a whole herd of pronghorn 476 00:34:27,956 --> 00:34:32,956 Speaker 1: antelope bounding across open ranch land. It was an unlocking 477 00:34:32,996 --> 00:34:36,916 Speaker 1: of sorts for me, a cracking open, and on the 478 00:34:36,996 --> 00:34:41,156 Speaker 1: drive back after the sunset, I kept thinking that Adrian 479 00:34:41,356 --> 00:34:45,276 Speaker 1: the singer could help me. Maybe if I talked to her, 480 00:34:45,316 --> 00:34:48,436 Speaker 1: I could learn better how to deal with the emotions 481 00:34:48,516 --> 00:34:52,356 Speaker 1: that draped over me like an oversized sweater, Like she 482 00:34:52,436 --> 00:34:56,236 Speaker 1: could help me honor the grande feelings and the vulnerability 483 00:34:56,276 --> 00:35:00,036 Speaker 1: that comes with them. It was a silly flight of fancy. 484 00:35:00,676 --> 00:35:05,196 Speaker 1: Should I set an hour? Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, 485 00:35:05,276 --> 00:35:09,396 Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't that silly. Like that kind of motion 486 00:35:09,636 --> 00:35:14,476 Speaker 1: is so hard for me to find, or to access, 487 00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:21,076 Speaker 1: or to touch. It feels dangerous, also kind of wild 488 00:35:21,236 --> 00:35:25,796 Speaker 1: and scary. You know, I wanted to chat for our 489 00:35:25,836 --> 00:35:29,076 Speaker 1: show because it felt like there was a way in 490 00:35:29,076 --> 00:35:35,156 Speaker 1: which you figured it out. I think that sadness emotion, 491 00:35:36,556 --> 00:35:41,836 Speaker 1: you know, feeling things like deeply is not it's not 492 00:35:41,876 --> 00:35:45,356 Speaker 1: really nurtured, Like we're not really given the tools from 493 00:35:45,396 --> 00:35:50,836 Speaker 1: an early age. There's already so much stifling that happens. 494 00:35:51,436 --> 00:35:56,036 Speaker 1: And I just think that there's so much around feeling 495 00:35:56,396 --> 00:36:01,516 Speaker 1: your feelings and emotions that is just like oppressed. Like 496 00:36:01,836 --> 00:36:05,076 Speaker 1: it's no wonder that in this world it's scary to 497 00:36:05,996 --> 00:36:10,356 Speaker 1: emote and like feel the full rowdness of feeling like 498 00:36:10,396 --> 00:36:14,796 Speaker 1: you figured out how to access an appropriate amount of 499 00:36:14,796 --> 00:36:19,996 Speaker 1: emotion and vulnerability. So that's I think my wonder is 500 00:36:20,036 --> 00:36:23,796 Speaker 1: that I'm just so curious about how you get there, 501 00:36:25,996 --> 00:36:28,596 Speaker 1: you know, I guess just being able to be like, 502 00:36:28,636 --> 00:36:30,676 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to be there for myself 503 00:36:31,636 --> 00:36:35,876 Speaker 1: no matter what, and like the sadness is not bad, 504 00:36:36,556 --> 00:36:40,076 Speaker 1: the emotion is not bad, Like all that I am 505 00:36:40,236 --> 00:36:43,236 Speaker 1: is not bad. It can all be here, and like 506 00:36:44,596 --> 00:36:48,876 Speaker 1: honestly just a lot of like self soothing and trying 507 00:36:48,916 --> 00:36:54,716 Speaker 1: to like believe in good, believing in like love, believing 508 00:36:54,716 --> 00:36:56,996 Speaker 1: that love is a real force that it's a real 509 00:36:57,036 --> 00:37:00,556 Speaker 1: thing that I really am surrounded with it and made 510 00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:04,156 Speaker 1: out of it. To do that, Adrian said, she conjured 511 00:37:04,196 --> 00:37:07,116 Speaker 1: the best friend she could imagine for her little self. 512 00:37:07,756 --> 00:37:11,476 Speaker 1: But I just imagine that person just being like, come here, 513 00:37:11,476 --> 00:37:14,996 Speaker 1: like I love you so much, You're so special. I'm 514 00:37:15,076 --> 00:37:18,676 Speaker 1: with you. I'm not going anywhere, and you can feel 515 00:37:18,676 --> 00:37:20,636 Speaker 1: all you feel and you can be all you are 516 00:37:21,196 --> 00:37:26,556 Speaker 1: and it's powerful, like you're amazing, Like I love you, sweetheart. 517 00:37:27,076 --> 00:37:31,556 Speaker 1: I'm here listening to Adrian. I want to be this 518 00:37:31,636 --> 00:37:35,436 Speaker 1: type of friend to myself too, to give myself permission 519 00:37:35,556 --> 00:37:38,196 Speaker 1: to feel big and to love the parts of me 520 00:37:38,316 --> 00:37:42,716 Speaker 1: that seem extra. But after nearly a lifetime spent trying 521 00:37:42,716 --> 00:37:47,756 Speaker 1: to tamp all that down, the idea felt overwhelming, even dangerous, 522 00:37:48,636 --> 00:37:51,516 Speaker 1: you know, Like I'm not saying that that's something I've 523 00:37:51,556 --> 00:37:54,436 Speaker 1: mastered by any means. That's the kind of friend to 524 00:37:54,476 --> 00:37:57,476 Speaker 1: myself that I want to be, Like, I want to 525 00:37:57,516 --> 00:38:02,476 Speaker 1: be just so steadfast least sticking by my own spirit. 526 00:38:02,556 --> 00:38:05,716 Speaker 1: And so when all that emotion comes out, that's honestly 527 00:38:05,756 --> 00:38:09,596 Speaker 1: what got me through is just time and I'm again 528 00:38:09,716 --> 00:38:14,276 Speaker 1: coming to a point of like this can all be 529 00:38:14,356 --> 00:38:17,796 Speaker 1: here and it's okay, and like you can feel this all. 530 00:38:17,836 --> 00:38:20,996 Speaker 1: I can feel it all. It's not too much, it 531 00:38:21,156 --> 00:38:26,516 Speaker 1: just is, you know, and yeah, and I fall out, spails. 532 00:38:26,556 --> 00:38:28,876 Speaker 1: Just strum out some notes on your guitar with a 533 00:38:28,956 --> 00:38:33,076 Speaker 1: paintbrush from the hardware store. That's what Adrian does. I 534 00:38:33,156 --> 00:38:35,796 Speaker 1: can show you if you want, Yeah, yeah, please, I'd 535 00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:53,756 Speaker 1: love to see it. I've been thinking a lot about 536 00:38:53,796 --> 00:38:57,076 Speaker 1: my chat with Adrian as I write this show, and 537 00:38:57,196 --> 00:39:01,396 Speaker 1: I've come to the understanding that making this project, inhabiting 538 00:39:01,436 --> 00:39:04,876 Speaker 1: the mantle of the loudest girl in the world, is 539 00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:08,956 Speaker 1: my gift to myself. I am being the friend that 540 00:39:08,956 --> 00:39:13,676 Speaker 1: I need. I am, in Adrian's words, sticking by my 541 00:39:13,716 --> 00:39:19,116 Speaker 1: own spirit. But now me and autism in sixth grade, 542 00:39:19,116 --> 00:39:22,436 Speaker 1: Pippi Longstocking, we just need to go live a little. 543 00:39:22,836 --> 00:39:26,036 Speaker 1: We're going to bust out of that dumb cardboard partition, 544 00:39:26,116 --> 00:39:29,476 Speaker 1: and we're going to give our big emotions an even 545 00:39:29,676 --> 00:39:34,116 Speaker 1: bigger squeeze, because no one puts Pippy in a box. 546 00:39:38,836 --> 00:39:41,476 Speaker 1: As I write these very words, I am sitting at 547 00:39:41,516 --> 00:39:44,356 Speaker 1: a table on my mother's porch in a suburban cul 548 00:39:44,396 --> 00:39:48,076 Speaker 1: de sac just outside of Pittsburgh. Of course, this is 549 00:39:48,196 --> 00:39:51,156 Speaker 1: not how I envisioned this project drawing to a close. 550 00:39:52,036 --> 00:39:55,076 Speaker 1: I figured, for the final episode, I would take myself 551 00:39:55,116 --> 00:39:58,116 Speaker 1: on a writing retreat to some idyllic wooded haven in 552 00:39:58,196 --> 00:40:04,476 Speaker 1: New England or some fancying northern California spread overlooking the Pacific. There, 553 00:40:04,596 --> 00:40:07,516 Speaker 1: I would no doubt find the perfect ending for this story, 554 00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:11,436 Speaker 1: one that would wrap all the emotions and epiphanies into 555 00:40:11,476 --> 00:40:15,916 Speaker 1: a lovely little cado of meaning. This ending would be poetic, 556 00:40:16,196 --> 00:40:23,996 Speaker 1: maybe even romantic, an elegant disquisition on difference, acceptance, and compassion. Instead, 557 00:40:24,356 --> 00:40:27,916 Speaker 1: I'm dog sitting my mother's ridiculous party poodle who won't 558 00:40:27,916 --> 00:40:31,196 Speaker 1: stop barking in my face. In the tree next to 559 00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:35,996 Speaker 1: the patio, there's a squirrel aggressively grooming its nether regions. 560 00:40:35,996 --> 00:40:40,076 Speaker 1: Oh and I have COVID, which has temporarily left me 561 00:40:40,116 --> 00:40:44,276 Speaker 1: with the lung capacity of a nonagenarian with emphysema. A 562 00:40:44,316 --> 00:40:49,196 Speaker 1: most unceremonious end to a project all about discovery and revelation, 563 00:40:50,036 --> 00:40:55,676 Speaker 1: struggle and affirmation. But in a way it's fitting because 564 00:40:55,836 --> 00:40:59,396 Speaker 1: even though I learned so much about myself and my neurology, 565 00:40:59,876 --> 00:41:02,956 Speaker 1: and even though I'm working towards embracing who I am, 566 00:41:03,556 --> 00:41:05,556 Speaker 1: and even though I was able to get it all 567 00:41:05,556 --> 00:41:08,916 Speaker 1: out in a podcast, so maybe other people, maybe you 568 00:41:09,636 --> 00:41:13,276 Speaker 1: wouldn't feel so alone in your brain. The dogs still 569 00:41:13,316 --> 00:41:16,156 Speaker 1: need to be taken out, the COVID still needs to 570 00:41:16,196 --> 00:41:19,036 Speaker 1: be nursed, the male still needs to be brought in. 571 00:41:19,796 --> 00:41:23,036 Speaker 1: Real life doesn't stop for your big news or your 572 00:41:23,076 --> 00:41:28,276 Speaker 1: big feels. In the end, my autism diagnosis means everything 573 00:41:28,476 --> 00:41:33,316 Speaker 1: and nothing. It has manifestly changed my life, and yet 574 00:41:33,476 --> 00:41:38,396 Speaker 1: I am exactly the same, And maybe that's just as well. 575 00:41:47,276 --> 00:41:49,676 Speaker 1: You've been listening to the Loudest Girl in the World. 576 00:41:49,996 --> 00:41:53,796 Speaker 1: It's hosted, written, and executive produced by me Lauren Ober. 577 00:41:54,156 --> 00:41:58,636 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Writer Alsop. Our associate producer is 578 00:41:58,756 --> 00:42:02,836 Speaker 1: David John. Sophie Crane is our showrunner and senior editor. 579 00:42:03,236 --> 00:42:07,276 Speaker 1: Jake Gorski is our mix engineer. Music imposed by my 580 00:42:07,396 --> 00:42:12,396 Speaker 1: autistic Kiwee pal, the Inimitable Lady Hawk. Our artwork was 581 00:42:12,476 --> 00:42:16,996 Speaker 1: created by the autistic illustrator Loretta Ipsum. The show is 582 00:42:17,076 --> 00:42:21,636 Speaker 1: fact checked by Andrea Lopez Cruzado, and our autism consultant 583 00:42:21,716 --> 00:42:25,636 Speaker 1: is Sarah Cappitt. Our executive producers are Mia Lobell and 584 00:42:25,836 --> 00:42:30,516 Speaker 1: Lee Tom Mullad. Much appreciation to Josh Lindgren at Cia 585 00:42:30,756 --> 00:42:35,956 Speaker 1: and Bianca Grimshaw at Granderson de Roche. Also a great 586 00:42:35,996 --> 00:42:39,476 Speaker 1: many thank yous to the ridiculously talented Kevin Zach for 587 00:42:39,556 --> 00:42:42,956 Speaker 1: all the voices, and to number one head shrinker Sandra 588 00:42:43,036 --> 00:42:46,316 Speaker 1: Wolf for putting up with me. And mega big love 589 00:42:46,436 --> 00:42:49,796 Speaker 1: to the numerous people who shared their autism stories and 590 00:42:50,036 --> 00:42:54,676 Speaker 1: expertise with me. Your insight and time is so appreciated. 591 00:42:55,396 --> 00:43:01,716 Speaker 1: An offering of extreme gratitude to Sharda Blechandr Uruela, Callie Cyrus, 592 00:43:01,756 --> 00:43:06,516 Speaker 1: Molly Harris, Lulu Miller, Megan Reid, Laura Starcheski, Rob Quinn, 593 00:43:06,636 --> 00:43:11,316 Speaker 1: Claire Thomas, Becca Van Dyke, Emily vesseland and my autism 594 00:43:11,356 --> 00:43:16,596 Speaker 1: fairy godmothers Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland. I don't deserve 595 00:43:16,676 --> 00:43:23,116 Speaker 1: your keen ears and your kind hearts. To my best guy, Jacob, 596 00:43:23,396 --> 00:43:26,796 Speaker 1: thank you for making me all the better. And finally, 597 00:43:27,036 --> 00:43:32,636 Speaker 1: Anna Rosen, who's boundless understanding, occasional teasing and above all 598 00:43:32,836 --> 00:43:38,756 Speaker 1: love made this project possible. Ani javit Otak, The Loudest 599 00:43:38,756 --> 00:43:41,716 Speaker 1: Scar in the World is a production of Pushkin Industries. 600 00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:45,756 Speaker 1: If you love this show, consider subscribing to Pushkin plus 601 00:43:45,756 --> 00:43:50,116 Speaker 1: offering bonus content and ad free listening across our network 602 00:43:50,156 --> 00:43:52,636 Speaker 1: for just or ninety nine a month. What a deal. 603 00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:56,796 Speaker 1: Look for the Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or 604 00:43:57,116 --> 00:44:01,636 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen 605 00:44:01,716 --> 00:44:05,916 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 606 00:44:05,956 --> 00:44:10,796 Speaker 1: to your podcasts. Our executive team include Dudes Jacob Weisberg, 607 00:44:10,996 --> 00:44:15,756 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Fame, John Schnars, Carrie Brody, Carly Mgliori, 608 00:44:15,996 --> 00:44:21,476 Speaker 1: Christina Sullivan, Jason Gambrelle, Lieta Mullad, Mia Lobell, and Gretta Cone. 609 00:44:21,956 --> 00:44:26,596 Speaker 1: Our marketing team includes Eric Sandler, Maggie Taylor, Morgan Ratner, 610 00:44:26,796 --> 00:44:31,556 Speaker 1: Nicole Morano, Mary Beth Smith, Jordan McMillan, Isabelle and Our Vaz, 611 00:44:31,756 --> 00:44:36,676 Speaker 1: and Sean Carney. We have operations support from Nicole Upton Bosch, 612 00:44:37,076 --> 00:44:41,436 Speaker 1: Maya Kane Egg and Daniella Lacan. Thanks for listening, friend, 613 00:44:41,716 --> 00:44:42,676 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Ober