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Speaker 1: This is the me eater podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything, alright, Ben O'Brien, father of one, it's good,

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Speaker 1: it's good. It is good, father of one. I you know,

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Speaker 1: there's no way for anybody to explain to you the

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Speaker 1: feeling that is. I like, you probably have won that child,

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Speaker 1: that child in the world. Yeah, and it's in the

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Speaker 1: world and looks at you like I'm gonna need you

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Speaker 1: for a while to help me out with life. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think you even tried to explain what the feeling

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Speaker 1: is or how how it goes. But there's no explanation

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Speaker 1: of what that is that that there's there's Irish writer,

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Speaker 1: it's quarted. Far from being young, as young as a

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Speaker 1: human can be. They seemed immensely old, their foreheads and

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Speaker 1: features streamlined by time, as archaic and smooth as the

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Speaker 1: heads of pharaohs in Egyptian sculpture, as if they had

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Speaker 1: traveled an immense distance to find their parents. Then in

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Speaker 1: a second they became young. That stout ship and you,

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Speaker 1: I mean you read it well right from an irishman right,

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Speaker 1: and to another irishman I'm feeling it. But yeah, they

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Speaker 1: come out and they're like little miniature old travelers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's about the best way I can alien Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it took me a couple you know. I think they

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Speaker 1: say it takes it took me a couple of months

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Speaker 1: to really like have the connection that you know, then

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Speaker 1: they start looking at you and recognize you and saying

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Speaker 1: you know, and and speaking to you without using words. Um,

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Speaker 1: but once that happened, I just and change my whole Outlook, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cold blooded thing to say, but I do like

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Speaker 1: the mom connection is very strong, but there is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I hope it is. If you've done any kind of

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Speaker 1: good job picking out who's gonna be the mom and

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Speaker 1: your children, you'd like to see a nice strong connection there.

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Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I felt like it's cold blooded to say,

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Speaker 1: but I felt like my connection to the baby's matured

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Speaker 1: over a few months. Yeah that's what they say when

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Speaker 1: you read people are writing about fatherhood. They said, just

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Speaker 1: be you know, the connection, and that first couple of

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Speaker 1: months is mother time. I mean, they're essential to the

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Speaker 1: life of that little baby. So you know, you I

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Speaker 1: kind of felt like a spectator for a while, and

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Speaker 1: then when you finally, yeah, you finally make a connection

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Speaker 1: with him yourself and get some time to just be

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Speaker 1: with him. And like I sat with my son just

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Speaker 1: out and it was Texas and November and it was

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Speaker 1: warm and we just sat in the sun and I

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Speaker 1: just looked at him for like two hours. And then

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Speaker 1: after that I was like, all right, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: welcome home, Welcome home, sun two months later. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the that's the feeling. And then

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Speaker 1: you come, you trial, you go hunting, and you just

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's for me, it's hard. It's tough for

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Speaker 1: every moment that I go. I remember after having our

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Speaker 1: first kid, and I had the first time I had

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Speaker 1: to go away for a period of time after having

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Speaker 1: our first kid. I'm not I remember I was sitting

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Speaker 1: in the bathtub with him and honest to God, wept

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Speaker 1: and it became such a problem for me to leave

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Speaker 1: that my wife said, you're gonna have to figure this

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Speaker 1: out because you're gone a lot. It can't be this

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Speaker 1: big thing because they're gonna internalize this, you know. It

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Speaker 1: needs to be a little smoother, a little less emotional,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. I stood at the door when I

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Speaker 1: left to come here for for shot show. I stood

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Speaker 1: at the door. I just kind of stood there. I

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Speaker 1: didn't look back or anybody was like, shut the door,

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Speaker 1: and I just stood there for like five minutes. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about what is going on in my brain

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Speaker 1: right now, because I just had to get it figured

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Speaker 1: out because I was I wasn't about to do that,

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Speaker 1: wasn't about to leave emotional and be all you know,

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Speaker 1: come here and not be invested because I'm gonna travel.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonn be be where I'm at, be present where

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Speaker 1: I'm at. So it's it's it's a weird change. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody could ever explain it to you

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Speaker 1: until you. I don't think there's no way. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if your philosopher the smartest person you've ever met,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't think there's any way to

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Speaker 1: explain it, at least from my my standpoint, how it's

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Speaker 1: changed my elok and stuff, yeah, kel and just looking

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Speaker 1: at us with the blanks. There has no idea what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. Never bred a woman, Now, Ben, Ben,

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Speaker 1: explain what you do. I'm the hunting marketing manager for

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Speaker 1: Yettie Yettie Coolers, um My job is to just to

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Speaker 1: be the champion for hunting inside of our company, you know,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of companies that you work with, Steve,

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Speaker 1: and a lot in our industry are strictly hunting. U.

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Speaker 1: We have the privilege and sometimes the challenge of being

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. Um that's surfing, climbing, rodeo, ranch, music,

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Speaker 1: all things that we work in. My job is too

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Speaker 1: to make sure that when we were drinking beer drinking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we got beer drinking. Yeah, we got barbecue. We

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Speaker 1: have a beer, barbecue and beer marketing manager yet he

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Speaker 1: which is the best title in the history of titles.

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Speaker 1: But you know, my job was to be the champion

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Speaker 1: for hunting and handle um, everything that comes with that

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Speaker 1: in in our business. You get out of a journalism

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Speaker 1: about you a sports writer, Yeah, that was that was

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Speaker 1: my when I was a kid, I grew up on

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Speaker 1: the East Coast, and that's what you were when when uh,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna be a sports fan, you know, like

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Speaker 1: my whole family was baseball, football, basketball, what's next? You know?

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Speaker 1: Since the get go? Right? Oh yeah, since the get

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Speaker 1: go uh. But hunting was just a weekend activity. We

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Speaker 1: the dinner conversation was sports, like that's what we I

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Speaker 1: listened to. I used to listen to Baltimore Oriole Games

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Speaker 1: on the radio going to bed every night as a kid.

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Speaker 1: Like that's what I listened to. You know. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: like reading ru Ark and stuff when you know my

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Speaker 1: it was Cal Ripken Jr. Like that was my thing.

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Speaker 1: So when I first came to college that I was.

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Speaker 1: I was a sports writer for a while. You can't

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Speaker 1: drop a writer name without breaking that down, though, what's

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Speaker 1: that well? Breaking out Robert ro Yeah, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: tell people like what you can't because if you don't

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Speaker 1: even know, I mean a lot of people will know

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Speaker 1: but don't want to know. He's the essential, right is

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Speaker 1: the essential to me, the essential writer for African hunting

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Speaker 1: and and really adventure um at least in Africa, the

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Speaker 1: adventure writing. And you can name how many books he's

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Speaker 1: written that are seminal to that. He's kind of up

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Speaker 1: there with Jack O'Connor really like he belongs and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially with the list of like the greats, they would

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Speaker 1: be very close together. Oh absolutely. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: before I went to Africa, go hunting, the first I

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Speaker 1: saved Robert Rourke's books Death in the tall Grass and

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Speaker 1: Father and Son and all those books until I was

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Speaker 1: going to Africa to read on the plane, like that's

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Speaker 1: how I felt about him up, get pumped up, and

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Speaker 1: like save that for that moment. And then he became

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Speaker 1: a sports writer. Then I became a sports writer, and

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Speaker 1: I did that for a couple of years until I

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Speaker 1: figured out that was terrible, terrible thing to do. It

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Speaker 1: was a terrible profession. All you did was sit around

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Speaker 1: and watch other people do things. But why is it

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Speaker 1: terrible because you already liked watching people do things. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you're you're watching them is as a as a spectator.

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Speaker 1: You're not involved in their world. You know, you have

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Speaker 1: no as a as an outsider in that world, you

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Speaker 1: have no judgment other than your general opinion on what

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Speaker 1: you see on TV screen. But then when you're in it,

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Speaker 1: you know you're you're as a writer, your judgment becomes

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Speaker 1: important and some of the interest season things that you

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Speaker 1: didn't know about or never would want to know about,

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Speaker 1: become important. But I just felt like my being a

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Speaker 1: spectator in that way, sitting in a press box and

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Speaker 1: writing about what's going on in the field and then

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Speaker 1: having to go down and talk to those people and

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Speaker 1: not be able to put them up as icons and

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Speaker 1: and love them. You had to know them as people.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty challenging because some of them can be bad

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Speaker 1: people are just not not who you'd want them to be.

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Speaker 1: So to me, it was that was less of a

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the career path I was gonna go down.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know it would be a hunting writer, and

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Speaker 1: I just, uh, I didn't want it to be that,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want to ruin sports forever. But I

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Speaker 1: haven't that profession. So the writing world, like in like

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Speaker 1: the literary world, there's like there's a real thing people

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Speaker 1: talk about, is that you should try to avoid meeting

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Speaker 1: your heroes because it's yeah, I mean, he's never gonna

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Speaker 1: watch your all that you're always gonna walk away with

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Speaker 1: a diminished appreciation for them once you meet him. Because

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Speaker 1: no one can live up to no one can live

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Speaker 1: up to themselves on the page. Yeah, no, you're right.

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Speaker 1: I mean they can't live up to themselves on the

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Speaker 1: playfield either. So call an, explain yourself and what what

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Speaker 1: fashion however? You want? Man, great great American? Oh well,

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Speaker 1: I work for First Light. I've worn many hats over

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Speaker 1: the years, My current title is direct Or of Conservation

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Speaker 1: and Public Relations. That's your current title. Yeah, pretty unique.

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Speaker 1: Ah so yeah, I guess we're kind of growing a

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Speaker 1: director of conservation. Yeah so yeah. You know, we work

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Speaker 1: with a lot of different conservation groups and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things I've always liked to do on UM.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, it's kind of become something the First

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Speaker 1: Light brand has been known for kind of put our

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Speaker 1: foot in our mouths very willingly on a lot of issues.

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Speaker 1: And uh so yeah, now now we're kind of embracing

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Speaker 1: that a little bit more. And so that's that's where

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Speaker 1: the title camp comes from. Canton came up with it.

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Speaker 1: I said, don't you think you should be more of

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Speaker 1: a like communications title. He's like, no, I think this

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Speaker 1: is pretty good. I like it. Thanks and of course

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Speaker 1: the honest But tell us hello, anything you want to

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Speaker 1: share any about what I do or do anything. It's

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Speaker 1: like some insights about you know, we're here at shot show,

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Speaker 1: Shot show. The view outside of this room is incredible

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Speaker 1: from the shot show we've been. That's the one like

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Speaker 1: a major drawback from shot shows that we're inside. You

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Speaker 1: haven't seen the light? Are you ever inside? You can't

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Speaker 1: tell what the I mean, Yeah, days could go by. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you kind of forget that that world is there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The first time you see the sunlight a shot show

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Speaker 1: is when you're head of the airport and it could

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Speaker 1: be five days without sunlight. Is I used to think

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Speaker 1: of it as being like um, I used it would

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Speaker 1: be like how could you take because the significant percentage

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Speaker 1: of the population that shows up the shots was people

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Speaker 1: involved in the outdoor industry. There's like law enforcement, military,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, but a lot of it outdoor industry.

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Speaker 1: But then you put them in this place, it's like

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Speaker 1: the least outdoors environment on the planet. I think it

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Speaker 1: should be like the old trapper roundab was where you

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Speaker 1: camp in a really in a cold, snowy valley. This

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Speaker 1: is Is this not the opposite of what you enjoy

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Speaker 1: like fancy dinners and walking in trade show booths and

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Speaker 1: like I do not. I mean, I love the idea

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Speaker 1: of shot show, but the reality of it is not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a fan. I mean it just is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the idea of what it is like a gathering of

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Speaker 1: people that all love the same thing through the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and people I haven't seen for a long time. That's

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Speaker 1: that's awesome. But the functionality of of being in Vegas

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Speaker 1: and not seeing the sun for five days like a trap. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know that cab right at the airport. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like exhilarating. You get out there and you're like fresh

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Speaker 1: air that I haven't haven't spilled that for a while.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever seen the Shawshank redemption when Andy comes

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Speaker 1: out of the the sewer pipe, that you're coming out

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Speaker 1: all right. So the reason we have your boys here

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Speaker 1: is now we like we have to do things where

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Speaker 1: we deal with fan questions and no cale in the hand.

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Speaker 1: And I answered about a bazilian questions inter day on

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Speaker 1: a Facebook live session that was pretty wild. It was entertaining.

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Speaker 1: I liked it. This is a, this is a and

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Speaker 1: we pick one. So we have picked ones here that

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Speaker 1: are things that just seemed to somebody pick because they're

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Speaker 1: kind of funny. Some we pick because they come up often. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me let me lay this one on you guys. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: why a lung shot over a head shot? I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys asked about this because dudes. I

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Speaker 1: found dudes in Southeast Alaska for whatever reason, it's a

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Speaker 1: culture of head shooters head deer head shooters. I have

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Speaker 1: heard that as well. I think it's because the brush

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Speaker 1: is damp thick. Do you ever see part of their

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Speaker 1: head looking through the brush? Are you through? You like

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Speaker 1: at forty yards away? So they just learned how to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna shoot the deer, that's all. That's That's

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Speaker 1: all you ever see in the damns anyways, which take

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Speaker 1: it lung shooting head shot. I know exactly how I

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Speaker 1: feel about it. I I I'm a I'm a lung shooter.

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Speaker 1: I mean to the to a severe degree. I don't

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Speaker 1: even like quartered shots with with bullets anymore because I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna blow up that opposite shoulder. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: a lung guy. But okay, So one time I was

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Speaker 1: guiding a muzzle loader hunt and I watched the client

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Speaker 1: shoot deer out, mule deer, wait season, mule deer um, miss,

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Speaker 1: the buck, hit a doe in the jaw. The joe

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Speaker 1: doe tips over stands back up, you know, thoroughly concussed.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure jaw hanging runs off, never to be seen again.

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Speaker 1: So I can see that being an issue. You there,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things on the head that don't

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Speaker 1: equate to an immediate death or ethical ethical death. That's

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Speaker 1: what I would say. I mean, the head is is

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Speaker 1: a right. There's last room for air when you're shooting.

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Speaker 1: Shooting in the head, that's one. Two. It's a smaller

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Speaker 1: target in general, you know, may be similar to Monk's

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Speaker 1: eye on the deer or whatever. But I think the

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Speaker 1: bigger point in the practicality of it is the head

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Speaker 1: is a smaller target. That's my old man I said,

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Speaker 1: would you rather try to hit a racquetball or basketball? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And there's also there's gotta be some level of decorum

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Speaker 1: like it is just you know, much more polite to

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Speaker 1: shoot him in the lungs and in the head. Wait

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Speaker 1: to think about it. So if you if you just

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Speaker 1: to badge your typical broadside animal. Now, if you're going

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Speaker 1: in where you're back for the back from the shoulder blade.

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Speaker 1: But if you go from the crease where the shoulder

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Speaker 1: blade like meets the rib cage, and you go back

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Speaker 1: a couple of ribs from there, and you're halfway up

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Speaker 1: and down the deer, you can be off. Let's just say,

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Speaker 1: wait till deer you can be off. Really six inches

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Speaker 1: in any direction and still be where you're you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a very dead deer very quickly. I agree, when

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Speaker 1: you're shooting at a deer's head, you're talking about distances

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Speaker 1: of an inch put you in trouble. Yeah, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot I mean, there's bone there. I mean that

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Speaker 1: that has a lot to play with the terminal, the impact.

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Speaker 1: There's much rather shoot into the lunx is that's just

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Speaker 1: you get through, punched the hid and you punched it along.

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Speaker 1: That's easy. That's an easy task for for a modern bullet.

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Speaker 1: And then then yeah, and then you have like Cal

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Speaker 1: brought up the meat, uh, meat damage. You know, a

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Speaker 1: broadside shot behind the shoulder doesn't do virtually does virtually

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Speaker 1: no meat damage. Um. But I could see that being

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Speaker 1: the pro argument for the head shot as well. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna get to that little you tackle it

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Speaker 1: unless you cook in some jaw meat. Well yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it kind of comes back to that everything

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Speaker 1: is edible. You should try something new. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we we roasted that head one time and that's fantastic stuff.

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Speaker 1: But not everybody's gonna do that or see value in that.

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Speaker 1: Um but oh boy, I mean you just see see

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Speaker 1: the error in a head shot one time and and

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Speaker 1: ye it to me, it is just not ever worth

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Speaker 1: the risk of trying it again. You always funks when

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Speaker 1: you functional in ethics, like say, I want to kill

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Speaker 1: that thing in the most respectful way possible, and the

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Speaker 1: thing that probably gets back to my own skill the best.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna take that the shot that has

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Speaker 1: the best room for air. I mean, you do get

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Speaker 1: that simple. I mean there's probably no other there's no

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Speaker 1: other way to look at it, Like we're less knowledgeable

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Speaker 1: as hunters about the anatomy of a deer's head. That

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Speaker 1: it's that it's body cavity. Yeah, definitely. The first the

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Speaker 1: first year I ever got was the head in the head.

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Speaker 1: They had had to finish it off. It was, you know,

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Speaker 1: ten ft away. I thought I could see with his

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Speaker 1: head um just come over. Like I was on a

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Speaker 1: little ridge and I was kind of like talk, you know,

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Speaker 1: tucked down on one side of the ridge, and it

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Speaker 1: was coming up the other side of ridge. Want it

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Speaker 1: finally popped up, It was right there. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what I was doing. I was thirteen years old. The

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Speaker 1: same vein you know, the next shot I've I've had

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Speaker 1: several neck shots that you know, that animal was not

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Speaker 1: It was immobilized thoroughly, but it was far from not

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Speaker 1: stone dead. My my buddy, uh Ron Layton, who is he?

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Speaker 1: Uh he's a head shooter, will die ahead shooter, claims

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Speaker 1: have never had a problem, not anything but stone dead. Dear.

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Speaker 1: It might be because he's you know, he's a good marksman,

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Speaker 1: lifelong hunter. But the thing he points out, if you

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Speaker 1: are a head shooter, he always runs over and bleeds

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Speaker 1: his deer because you know, like in a in a

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Speaker 1: slaughter facility when it was slaughtering livestock, you know, they

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Speaker 1: bleed the animals. When when you shoot a deer through

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Speaker 1: the lungs, itself bleeds, I mean just the wound bleeds it.

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Speaker 1: They don't need to bleed the animal when you shoot.

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Speaker 1: If you shoot something in the head, it doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: bleed out, and there's a lot of blood left in there.

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Speaker 1: So you go and cut the you know, you go,

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Speaker 1: you want to go cut the artery in the neck,

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Speaker 1: and you'll spill a lot of blood out. You shoot

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Speaker 1: animals through the neck, or shoot the animal through the

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Speaker 1: lungs and go to bleed it, nothing comes out because

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Speaker 1: that bloods all this laying there pooled up in the

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Speaker 1: inside the rib cage. Um. If you want to come

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Speaker 1: back to that, I forward forward that email from Aaron

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Speaker 1: T from South Burrow. Math. Yeah, I'll get to it now.

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Speaker 1: This one, this is a good one for Callahan, good

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Speaker 1: one for Yanni and you might have run into it too.

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Speaker 1: Our guide schools worth it? Oh, hunting guide schools. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I you know I do? Do you guys? Let me

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Speaker 1: start right? Do you guys ever go to a guide school?

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Speaker 1: I did not. I taught one for uh, fly fishing,

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Speaker 1: guides in rowing, you know, to learn how to row

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Speaker 1: boats for I don't know, maybe a half dozen years

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Speaker 1: or so, but I never did a hunting one. I would.

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Speaker 1: I would say that the public opinion when I was

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Speaker 1: getting into guiding was no, don't there a sham because placement,

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Speaker 1: like my very few interactions with it, to be that

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Speaker 1: you can go to school, but unless it has like

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Speaker 1: a way to automatically place you into a position, that's

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Speaker 1: what you really need, that's what your paying is what

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Speaker 1: you need to really need. Because you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of outfitters are pretty salty guys, and they're gonna be like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't care what that guy taught you. I want

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Speaker 1: you to learn it my way. So you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not necessarily gonna take this recommendation for any sort of value.

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Speaker 1: Now I have heard um, now, oh there's a good

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Speaker 1: one out of Wyoming, and and maybe a good one

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Speaker 1: out of Montana. Um, but I can't cannot remember the names.

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Speaker 1: But um, I don't want to say anybody's running a

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Speaker 1: shoddy business. But I think, just like anything, there's probably

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Speaker 1: some that do a really good job. Um and uh,

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Speaker 1: and some that may give you some skills but no placement. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so let's say no. But I don't know, I'm feeling.

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Speaker 1: Look at the apprenticeship style is probably the way to

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Speaker 1: go from my perspective, especially I think with hunting, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's how it worked for me, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was great. You know, if the alpha has got horses,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna quickly learn how to deal with the horses,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you're gonna learn you're gonna to do

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Speaker 1: all the ship jobs first, and then you you know,

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Speaker 1: after sometimes two weeks and sometimes two years, you might

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Speaker 1: actually be in the field guiding, but at least you're

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Speaker 1: there in the camp spending those hopefully to three months,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing what you love. Now for the fly fishing,

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Speaker 1: we probably hired to nine of the people that went

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Speaker 1: through the whole class. So you did that course with us,

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Speaker 1: then most likely you were going to be guiding that summer.

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Speaker 1: So it was almost like a training program. So he answers, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: So there's one out of Jackson Hole or Victor, Idaho

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Speaker 1: that is I got a nephew. Yeah. Yeah, Well so

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Speaker 1: I would say, like he didn't become a guy. I

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Speaker 1: mean that was a fly fishing one as well. Oh

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Speaker 1: I think he did, like a elk one or something. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's it. Hunting got hunting guy is not a generic pursuit.

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Speaker 1: So like, how do you what does that really mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're out putting three thousand snow goose decoys in the

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Speaker 1: field up Maryland and you're like packing into Alaska. I

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Speaker 1: would say that unless if you're okay, if you're going

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Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna be a guy in Montana for

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Speaker 1: big game and there's a big game Montana. I mean

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Speaker 1: that would be to me a more you know, more

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Speaker 1: relevant thing to do. There's no is a guide school.

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Speaker 1: A good idea only if it applies to exactly where

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Speaker 1: you're about to go home. It's not bartending school. Yeah right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's here's a good one. This is a real good question.

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Speaker 1: If you were to take the costs of hunting for

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Speaker 1: your own meat supply and the cost of purchasing meat

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Speaker 1: from the store in a one year period, which do

404
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Speaker 1: you think would be more expensive than why? I think

405
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Speaker 1: that for ninety No, I think that for the majority

406
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Speaker 1: of hunters, it's much more expensive to hunt it for yourself.

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Speaker 1: I've lived both ways. At a time when I was

408
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Speaker 1: living like in Western Montana, and we generally hunted around

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Speaker 1: Western Montana and we shot a lot of we filled

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Speaker 1: a lot of dough tags and whatnot, we were definitely

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Speaker 1: being like very economical hunters. Yeah, that's not like doing

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Speaker 1: like Little John sleeping out and sleep eating bags, you know,

413
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Speaker 1: and like sleeping under your car in a sleeping bag,

414
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Speaker 1: waking up killing two antelope doughs, coming home with like

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Speaker 1: shiploads of meat. We were like, you couldn't have bought

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Speaker 1: that stuff, and you're processing it yourself, processing yourself. I

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Speaker 1: think the minute you start doing any kind of like

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Speaker 1: destination hunting, the minute you start throwing small game and

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Speaker 1: do it it's you can't you have to find other

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Speaker 1: There has to be more to it than that. If

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Speaker 1: you're just hunting to save money, Um, it can be done,

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Speaker 1: but you're probably you know you're gonna be hunting. You're

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Speaker 1: probably talking about local, almost subsistence level hunting, which applies

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Speaker 1: to some people. But but that kind of hunting leads

425
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 1: you into being curious about other kinds of hunting. In prison,

426
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: you're doing things that aren't so practical. Yep, that's it right,

427
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: it's very very well. So yeah, that's it's it's what's

428
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: your what's your motivation. If your motivation is to save

429
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: money and get you know, organic meat, it can be

430
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 1: done almost I live in Texas, might go on ranch

431
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: and probably people would pay me to kill hogs and

432
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: or uh go kill some call deer and we kill

433
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: ten call bucks and ten hogs a year. I mean

434
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: in process it yourself. You're in an environment where you

435
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: can or you can be efficient with that. But there's

436
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: not a lot other plate you know that. I guess

437
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: in out West, you can kill a couple of cow,

438
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: can get a ton of meat, and you can do

439
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: added value stuff too. So the minute you go get

440
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: the meat and then you're producing like artisan grade sausages

441
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: out of it, you know, like at a point, yeah,

442
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: you can, you can wind up really justifying it financially.

443
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: When I was in when I was in college, Um,

444
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: we have spent shipped for money and ate a lot

445
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: of dear meat, and it would have been It's to

446
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: the point where if we weren't shooting deer and eating them,

447
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: we would not have been buying We would have starved

448
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: to death, we would not have been eating the quality

449
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: of food that we were eating. We would not have

450
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: been eating meat like hot dogs. And I don't even

451
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: know what to stake. This is maybe a like what

452
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: one costs a thing to say, but I don't know

453
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: what one costs in the store. Well, that's the thing.

454
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: I think that we're probably undervaluing what a year's worth

455
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: of meat or however you want to break it down

456
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: a week that if you especially if you're buying the

457
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: same kind of quality, because we are talking about some

458
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: pretty fantastic bitch and fairly organic most of the time

459
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: meat from the woods, you're going trying to buy that

460
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: in a store. I mean, you can very easily be

461
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: twenty thirty past, especially if you're trying to buy game.

462
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: If you're trying to be like, Okay, I'm gonna go

463
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: price out a bunch of elk loin, Yeah, then it's

464
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: gonna be way different than if you're probably out like

465
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: Oscar Meyer. Yeah, price out what we can probably figure

466
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: out real quick with a half of an organic grass

467
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: fed beef costs. But I'm guessing it's many thousands of dollars.

468
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: You know, we always used to say a lot of

469
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: different grades of beef out there, So like choice versus select,

470
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: here in Vegas, there is a lot you can do

471
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: it easy. So again we're not a lot of definite answers. Well,

472
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: we had very the long shot thing I think was clear.

473
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: Now here's a good one. This this one, This one,

474
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: I want you guys to think hard on before you answer.

475
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: Do you think wearing a helmet and maybe even some

476
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: sort of armor could be beneficial in a bear encounter

477
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: when hunting? Now, there's a movie about this called what's

478
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: that movie called? So it's one of the greatest movies

479
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: ever made in in a way, it's called um Grizzly Project,

480
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: not Grizzly Man, but Grizzly Project. It's a guy that

481
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: got mauled by a bear a Canadian. This is a

482
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: true it's a documentary about him. He was mauled by

483
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: a bear and that inspired him to make a bear

484
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: proof suit. So the movie follows him through the production

485
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: of a bear foot proof suit. But when he finally

486
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: gets a suit that he feels his bear proof, it

487
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: basically immobilizes him. In A lot of the movie follows

488
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: him trying very hard to get mauled by a bear

489
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: and not being able to get mauled by a bear.

490
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: One of the problems being in the suit, he can't

491
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: really move after him enough to try to antagonize him

492
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: to malling, so he was never able to put his

493
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: suit to the test. Grizzly Project, This sounds like the

494
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: most entertaining movie. Dude, he gets the suit, he has

495
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: his buddy run him over in the truck, he has

496
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: his buddy roll him off a cliff. But no, I

497
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: think that's kind of I think it's ridiculous. And here's

498
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: why I think it's ridiculous. It's like, you're not, okay,

499
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get mauled by dann bear. You are

500
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: not you are not gonna get mauled by bear. There

501
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: are so few bear maulings. When when people talk about

502
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: the scarcity of you know that the lack of likelihood

503
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: that something's gonna happen, you know, they like to say, like,

504
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: you've got more of a chance to falling off the

505
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: ladder and day, you've got more chance to getting mauled

506
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: by your dog and dying. You've got more chance of

507
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: getting stung by a being dying. Okay, all that kind

508
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: of stuff. Within that, though, I think there are, like,

509
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: there's high exposure groups. Okay, if you are a bow

510
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: hunter in northwestern Wyoming, if you're an elk bow hunter

511
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: in northwestern Wyoming, you have I've never run the statistics

512
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: on it, but you have a much much higher likelihood

513
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: of getting mauled by a bear than any other player

514
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: out there. Even then, I think it's so narrow that

515
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: the fact that you would like have a helmet on

516
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: or armor on an anticipation of getting mauled by a bear.

517
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: You can't even get people to carry spar bear spray.

518
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: But wait, wait, if you wear a seatbelt on an airplane, right, sure,

519
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: but the questions question posed is would you think it

520
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: would help? Oh? Okay, you're right. If you could say

521
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: if you could get the bear to hit you in

522
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: that exactly if someone say, in a minute, I'm gonna

523
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: have this bear MOLEU. Now, uh, would you like to

524
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: put the helmet and armor on? Of course, I'm gonna

525
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: put the helmet armor on. Well done. Yeah, be very

526
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: beneficial at that point. So if you can see the

527
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: bear coming, he had a little shirt about a pack

528
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: around that tanner twenty pounds of armor, so he can

529
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: definitively say yes, it would have Yes, it would help. Yeah,

530
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: it's not gonna hurt. No. Um. Thinking when you get

531
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: mauled by a bear, and everybody likes to tell you,

532
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: like what to do when you get mauled by a bear,

533
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: and you tell you, now, if it's a black bear,

534
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: and there's plenty of this ship like if it's a

535
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: black bear, fight because if a black bear attacks you,

536
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: it's a prey. He's doing a predatory thing. The black

537
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: bear has identified you as food. He's fixing to eat you.

538
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: For black bear attacks you fighting, punch and kick because

539
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: his hope is that you die so that he can

540
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: eat you. For grin is malls you. Chances are and

541
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: they're much more likely to mall you because think about

542
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: this like, think about you know, we have black bear

543
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: seasons and out in thirty four states or something like

544
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: that is black bears are everywhere. There are hundreds of

545
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: millions of people in this country who live in black

546
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: bear country, right and most years no one gets maulled

547
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: by a black bear. You have grizzly bears in in

548
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: the lower force, but just speaking of the lower forty eight,

549
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: you have grizzly bears in a small portion of Idaho,

550
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: not quite half of Montana, maybe less than a third

551
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: of Wyoming. And every year you have a couple of

552
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: fatalities from grizzly bears. Eight hundred grizzly bears kill a

553
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: couple of people every year. What's that going with this? Oh,

554
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: the grizzly malls. The thinking is, don't fight, you lay down,

555
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: protect the bad pack your neck with your hands, and

556
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: play dead because it might be mulling you because it's

557
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: mad at you and wants to immobilize the threat. Like that.

558
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: They have a reaction to threat by attacking the source

559
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: of the threat. So if you're like, I'm not a threat,

560
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm not a threat, I'm dead, they might just give

561
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: you a smell and walk off. That's the popular thing.

562
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: So maybe you armor is more is better for grizzly

563
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: bear hunters play Dead and maybe you know, bear spray

564
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: for the black play Dead and wear armored. Okay, now

565
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: here's one question. This guy says, there's one question I

566
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: gonna ask Steve. That would be, what's this taken using

567
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: photos of harvested animals for marketing materials? Oh? This is

568
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's totally fair game because

569
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's just I'm not I'm not a marker. Now.

570
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: I look forward to you when you guys have to

571
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,239
Speaker 1: say about this, because you guys have applm marketing. Um.

572
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: The other guy like, like, there's an aspirational element to

573
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: marketing right where you're trying to present a figure doing

574
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: a sort of thing that a fella would look at

575
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: and be like, Man, what I wish I was in

576
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: that situation. Now when I get an animal, when I

577
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: hunt an animal and kill it, I'm really happy. I

578
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: don't I'm not wishing I could undo what I did.

579
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: There's a level of respect and remorse for sure, but

580
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: but the overwhelming thing is that you did something very challenging.

581
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: You've succeeded in it, you're happy in the moment, you

582
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: have very strong good feelings for the animal, you have

583
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: strong good feelings for the accomplishment. You take a photo

584
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: of it because it's something you want to remember and

585
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: share with other people, the same way you would of

586
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: you and your old lady, Like on the day you

587
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: get married. I'm real happy that I married this lady.

588
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm proud of the fact. I'm gonna hire for time,

589
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: prefer to come down and take pictures of me and

590
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: the lady I married because we're glad about it happening. Okay,

591
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: Now if I get an animal and I'm glad about

592
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: it happening, and I want to share it with people. Um,

593
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: It's like when when someone asked the question, it was like,

594
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to be like disappointed that I

595
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: got it that I want to hide it. If I

596
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: was gonna be disappointed that I got it and wanted

597
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: to hide the fact that I got it, I wouldn't

598
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: have got it. So it just seems to me like

599
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: logical that if you're if you're trying to if you're

600
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: in the job of marketing, Let's say a product that

601
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: you'd show a person in a moment that at least

602
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: in the hunting world is universally accepted as a happy, triumphant,

603
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: proud making moment. That would be fair game. Yeah, I

604
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: think you're right. I mean, I think it's all about

605
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: what context that that you show it in. And to me,

606
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: I always like I always stop and say, if I'm

607
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: marketing something, it doesn't matter what it is cooler here

608
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Is it honest and authentic? Like, is the

609
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: way that you're is that moment you're describing captured in

610
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: that image you're captured in that footage? Or have you

611
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: endeavored to capture that thing? Are you out there trying

612
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: to get to what you're talking about or are you

613
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: just manufacturing and glorifying something that you think some marketer

614
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: told you, some agency guy told you this is what

615
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: all hunters want to get to. So now give me that,

616
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: and somebody goes out and tries to manufacture that, oh,

617
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: and they give you a like a bogus bullshit attempt

618
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: at something that. So like if you if you had

619
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: never surfed before, and you said, they said, Steve, I

620
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: want you to create a surfing ad, and somebody said,

621
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: you know what, when when a surfer hits that way,

622
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: this is the moment that they they feel triumphant, and

623
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: then you went out and try to manufacture that and

624
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: advertise to that it's going to be this disingenuous Maybe

625
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: you're trying to make it as authentic as possible. So

626
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: what what I think is important is that you are

627
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: you will have it under a nuanced understanding of the

628
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: story you're trying to tell, and that you're that you're

629
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: honestly trying to depict it in a way that that

630
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: gets to gets to a point of depth. And that's

631
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: what when you're depicting a dead animal, it's a little

632
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: more serious than depicting a big wave or depicting something

633
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: else that you would want to advertise to. So that's

634
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: a little that story is more serious because it is

635
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: more complex, has more depth, there's more to it. Yeah,

636
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: there's there's I imagine for your position, there's a lot more.

637
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: They can backfire, there's a lot more. We're talking about

638
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: this earlier today, a friend of mine, historian body mind,

639
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: setting you a photo from way ago in a magazine.

640
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: It was a gun ad where's the dude standing there

641
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: with the gorilla? Yes, I've seen that, I've seen that.

642
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: That wouldn't go over too well, not so much. But

643
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: that's also the same thing, Like you gotta you understand

644
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: your audience, right, So I would just assume that if

645
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: you're showing a dead animal, you're speaking to hunters, right.

646
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: So that's so you're you've got a pretty defined and

647
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: dedicated audience. But in my position, shouldn't you're speaking to

648
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: hunters and you're also speaking to everyone else because anyone

649
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: can see that advertising and you want, you know, you

650
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: talk about this all the time. You want any hunting

651
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: communication to be able to be consumed by someone that

652
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: maybe hasn't experienced that and still have an appreciation for it.

653
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't have the depth of appreciation for it

654
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: that a hunter might, but they It shouldn't come off

655
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: as the glorification of that, of of that moment. You know,

656
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: a thing that it's kind of similar. I remember that

657
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: there's always like a debate when I was young about

658
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: is it okay to put it deer? Like if you

659
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: have a deer in the back of your truck tail

660
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: gate uptailgate down? And there's like two different kinds of folks, right,

661
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: you're down folks and you're up folks. The up folks

662
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: like why if it's sensitive to some people and some

663
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: people don't like to see it, why rub it in

664
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: their face? The tailgate down. Guys like I have nothing

665
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: to be ashamed of. I'm I'm nothing to hide. I'll

666
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: just pretend like I didn't just get a deer. But

667
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: can I'll take the main question, the marketing one Dead Creators.

668
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: So the person that wrote this question, I can totally

669
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: see their perspective as that they could see it as

670
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: a marketing ploy. And I think at one time that

671
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: was that was very common. I can I can tell

672
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: you from what I've seen from uh, what Ben's been

673
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: doing and what we do on our end um. You know,

674
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: it just isn't we occasionally put kind of that grip

675
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: and grand photo upon our social media stuff, um, because

676
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: it almost always, i would say always is accompanied by

677
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: a fantastic story of some somebody who has purchased a

678
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: lot of our gear and said, hey, thank you so much,

679
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't have done it without your stuff off. And

680
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: by the way, I got this animal, and there was

681
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: this adventure involved, and and we'll post that photo on

682
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: occasion and be like this person got this and congratulations

683
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: and and and it's more of a nod to their story.

684
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's and it's not to me at this point,

685
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't fall into a paid advertising category. Does that

686
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. Well. Also, like one

687
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: thing I think of now, like you look at where

688
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: we are now with hunting in society. Sometimes I think

689
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: if I put that dead animal in there, is that

690
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: changing the conversation? Like if I can get my point

691
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: across without the dead animal in there, wouldn't much rather

692
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: do that because I don't now don't have to defend

693
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: that it's there, or you don't have to increase the

694
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: complexity of my message by having some people that are

695
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: gonna see it. We're gonna say, they're gonna focus right

696
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: on the dead end, will miss my message entirely. Yeah,

697
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: because that we always said it's like that's the end

698
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: of the hunt. Yeah, it's well, the end of the

699
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: hunt's not not that great. During the hunt is super fun,

700
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: and the pulling the trigger is absolutely miniscule fraction of

701
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: time compared to the adventure part. So you know, we've

702
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: never really focused on the end of the hunt because

703
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: that's like that's just a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah,

704
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: We've got a film coming out here, a YETI film

705
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: coming out about she Plenty in the Mackenzie Mountains and

706
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: the guide his name is Tavis Mulnar. He puts it

707
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: pretty good. He said, Um, that would be like reading

708
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: the book and only focused on the last page, you know,

709
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: because like all, you have to have read every chapter

710
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: of that book to appreciate not only the story but

711
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: the author. And you wouldn't. You wouldn't just read the

712
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: last page and close the book you want to, you know.

713
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: And I think advertising as much that way, like you know,

714
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: any company that just glorifies killing and and doesn't aim

715
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: to just tell the story all the way. You know.

716
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with grip and grins as

717
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: long as it's a part of the larger story. Like

718
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: the gripp and grain is a part of what we do,

719
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: but it's not the only thing we do. And if

720
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: you've if you've got a social media channel, if you've

721
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: got a company, and all you do is share gripping grins,

722
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: then you're probably doing it wrong. You're missing of what's

723
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: out there walking around shot show there'll always be some

724
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: mug selling whatever and they'll have like to t you know,

725
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: a lot of places to put a TV screen up

726
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: just run some nine continuous loop. I was checking out

727
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: one today where it's just all it is is Kyle's

728
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: just getting smoked in the worst ways and like a

729
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: glimpse of something like that is one thing, but just

730
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: to be like again again again when we're doing me

731
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: eat like we never, I like go way out of

732
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: my way to not fetishize kill shots and people the

733
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: fact that even has a term kill shot. I think that.

734
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: I think some of the hunting networks used to have

735
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: a thing where like you couldn't show it could show

736
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: a kill shot more than seven times in a row

737
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: or something. I'm not a kidding, man, I've ember seeing

738
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: something like that at a point. It isn't man. I

739
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: mean you're always like making your always gaming and making

740
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: sort of little judgment calls about you know, presenting a

741
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: reality but not overdoing portions of it, you know, and

742
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: people complaining like, oh, there's no they didn't show the

743
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: kill shot, Like okay, so that hunt, that hunt was

744
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: seven days, Okay, there's twenty four hours in a day

745
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: that that was just like one second of the thing

746
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: or one portion of the thing. So yeah, I'm trying

747
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: to like focus on all these aspects of what a

748
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: hunt is like and the things that go into it,

749
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: and every hunt. I don't think the culmination that hunt,

750
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: and that the one second that really really matters is

751
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: that one second, and it is being a little bit

752
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: aware of people's sensitivities. But it's also just like your

753
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: own aesthetic. And I think too that over time doing it,

754
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: doing it, doing it, doing it, you do feel after

755
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: a while like you get like a little tired of

756
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: seeing it absolutely, like it's just it's something in you changes. Yeah.

757
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: I had a very very you know, one of the

758
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: probably the faces of our industry. Maybe I would say

759
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: tell me that. Uh, he just it was the killing

760
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: is what people wanted to see. Yeah, he was like,

761
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: when the more killing we have, the more dead animals

762
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: have on our show, that the higher the ratings are.

763
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: I said, I've got it. You know. He's like, the

764
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: more if we put up a shots and twenty seconds

765
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: for turkeys, he gets more of us than if I

766
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: That's what he told him, and he had the numbers

767
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: to back it up. And I said, I could care

768
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: less about that. I can care less about that. I

769
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: would never be driven by that. But I think hunting TV,

770
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: you guys could maybe I know as much as I do,

771
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: But I don't think hunting TV for a lot of

772
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: people is appointment view appointment viewing except for a few shows,

773
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: your show being one of them, a few shows people

774
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: turned tune into. But I think a lot of people,

775
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: my dad is one of them that just turns it

776
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: on and watches and I'll say, Dad, who are you watching?

777
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who they were. They killed a big

778
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: old elk. Yeah, I dude knows that. That's kind of

779
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: I see people watched, but I see people watch all

780
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: forms of TV that way, as you know I see it.

781
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: So it's like, I don't want to be exclusive to you.

782
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's exclusive to um hunting TV,

783
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: because I think that's just people. There's like people who

784
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: have TV on, Like if I have it on, I'm

785
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: if I'm watching something, it's because I've picked this thing

786
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: that I want to watch and I am focused on

787
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: watching it. You know. I don't have like things where

788
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, it was kind of like in

789
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: the background. I don't really know what's going on. If

790
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm watching it, I'm watching it. But I think a

791
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: lot of people do watch We're just sort of on

792
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: and in that way, I could see that it might

793
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: draw people's attention, but it's like, that's not the eyeballs

794
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: I want. Now, have you ever encountered or killed a

795
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: doe with antlers? No, I have not. They do exist ever.

796
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: I've seen him, but not killed. I've seen them, seen him.

797
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: They look goofy. Were like that look real goofy. Yeah,

798
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: And I don't remember. I mean it was it was

799
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: I was young, young, so I don't know a lot

800
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: of the details. But it look goofy. I mean that

801
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: the body type. I remember it, just being looking at

802
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: the deer, even when it was on its feet, and thinking,

803
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: that's a gnarly looking deer. It's sick or it's you know,

804
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: there's some sort of deformity. You'll notice that most states

805
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: like uh, you rarely see a tag for a buck.

806
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: A lot of things you see tag. You know, antler deer.

807
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: I know because it's it's a thing that does happen. Now, antelope,

808
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: tons of man, tons of the dolls have horns, but

809
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: that's not antlers. Yeah, ever kill one to see one?

810
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: I have not. I worked with some folks in the

811
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: frank Church that they desperately wanted to kill this antlerless

812
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: bowl that they would find over and over again. Why

813
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: because they were afraid that all of a sudden he

814
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: was eight there apparently every bowl in the valley. Apparently

815
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: he was very aggressive and they had watched him chase

816
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: off or fight off aunt weird bulls. I was not

817
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: there for any of this, but yeah, and they were

818
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: thinking he was gonna breed and breedle and it's been

819
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: in like produce a strain of genetic line of antleless bowls. Yes,

820
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: got you, But I mean the wilderness outfit, right, So

821
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: you gotta have something to talk about, Okay. Do lunar

822
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: phases factor? Man, this is a this is a golden question,

823
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: a contentious question. Do lunar phases factor in the hunting?

824
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: That's always been the thing that everyone believed, and I

825
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: was raised to believe that. It is on your GPS. Yes,

826
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: if you want to find out it's good hunt or not,

827
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: simply consult your GPS. It will tell you whether it's

828
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: worthwhile going out or not based on the lunar phase.

829
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: Now thinking is full moon, dear, get move all night

830
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: and get all their activities taken care of overnight because

831
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: there's so much light out and then come morning you're

832
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: sitting there and your blind during the crepuscular period, you know,

833
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: the half light period, and there's no dear out because

834
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: they've all been out all night already. I don't know

835
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: if they've studied many other species, but I know there

836
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: and I have read and you know, I feel like

837
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: like my friend Pat Dirk and who writes a lot

838
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: a lot about the science of white tales, has written

839
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: about this, and know there's been a lot of work

840
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: on it. Where you get yourself a collar buck buck

841
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: carrying a GPS collar, deer carrying GPS collars, and then

842
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: you watch what they do during various lunar phases, and

843
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: things that I have read about white tails have said

844
00:46:54,280 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: that in fact, nothing changes mhm, that they're not doing

845
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: something different. Now, It's not as simple, yes, no question,

846
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: because undoubtedly uncertain nights, waterfowl will fly all night. Unwell

847
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: at nights, things will migrate during the nighttime. Uh So,

848
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: I've been three trade shows in three weeks. I've been

849
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 1: talking to lots of people, and uh the super moon

850
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: keeps coming up. As you know, it's a slow season,

851
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:34,479
Speaker 1: tough season. Super moon really warm, well warm for sure.

852
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: That ship definitely matters. Yes, but it seems to me

853
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: like many many people are blaming some slow days in

854
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,479
Speaker 1: the field on this super moon slow day super moon

855
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: every good book. Now, Rammy Warren, who I have nothing

856
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: but respect and admiration for and who knows his ship

857
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: inside and out, disagrees beyond this. From an Elk perspective,

858
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: I think, how I'm not messing this up. I think

859
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: he feels that movement patterns are affected by moon. Mm hmm,

860
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: what's the man? I wish Pat Durkin was here, because

861
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's like, so either thing is white

862
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: tells about be different. Now another white tailed thing that

863
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: everyone believes is it a running buck. This is in

864
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: some of the same papers that I read. This thing

865
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: about lunar faces. People think they're running buck is all

866
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: willy nilly going crazy places. A running buck goes to

867
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: the just he goes to the same place as he

868
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: always goes, just more often. He doesn't pioneer new he

869
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: doesn't he like, oh, I've never been over there, I'm

870
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: gonna go over there. I have always heard that the

871
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: white tail bucks range is very, very small, and then

872
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: when the red kicks in, it expands three or four times. No,

873
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: they don't pioneer new spots. I read that exact same

874
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: study and and um, the GPS College. I don't know

875
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: how many bucks it was a good number, but number

876
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: a deer. And what they found out was they they

877
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: they do not expand their range. I think we maybe

878
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: there may be some fallacies inside what their range, what

879
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: their original ranges are, um. But they do not. They

880
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: don't expand their range. They just move more frequently in

881
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: different areas. Like if you look at him throughout the year,

882
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: he'll be like he's got some little spot he goes

883
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: and he goes there every week every two weeks, but

884
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: he'll kind of go into some area and check it out.

885
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: Then during the ruck he's just kind of backing forth,

886
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: going to all these places he already knows about. He's

887
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: not patternable in that time. That doesn't mean he's going

888
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: to new place. That doesn't mean he's not there. And

889
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: saying and they were saying the same thing about the

890
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: October law. It doesn't mean that deer did not does not.

891
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: He just he does not move at different times. He

892
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: just moves in different places, you know, and in different frequency.

893
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: Because then you look at the the pattern of a

894
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: buck from whether they're just in feed mode and to

895
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: when the mass crops fall and they change. You know,

896
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: I grew up that was acorns fall and then the

897
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: deer patterns changed. I killed more dear in early Octurber,

898
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: growing up just understanding where the acorns dropped, where the

899
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: deer would move into and wind than anything else, rut anything.

900
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 1: So you guys would specifically like hunt acorn crop wood. Yeah,

901
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: at Elice in Maryland, I would unt. I would hunt

902
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: acorn crops. I knew exactly which which grove trees. I

903
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: knew exactly where to go and exactly when the deer

904
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: would be there based on when those acorns fell. I

905
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: mean so, but I think those GPS collar bucks, it

906
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: just shows that those deer rarely if ever expand their

907
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: range unless you know, there really is no hot doughs

908
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: in the area. But I mean white tap populations, there's

909
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: always going to be a breeding dough somewhere within their range.

910
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: I would think I think those GPS colors were messing

911
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: with those deer. Yeah, that could be maybe deer with

912
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: GPS colors. Act we're speaking of expanding ranges though. In

913
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: white tails. Did Brodie send you that picture too those

914
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: white tails. No, yeah, I didn't look at it yet though. Yeah.

915
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: So he lives uh in Steamboat Springs and was traveling

916
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: south and uh basically smack dab in the middle of Colorado,

917
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: ran too it into a six pack of white tail dose.

918
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: It probably seven to eight thousand feet just feeding in

919
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: the stage and it's like the nearest place I've ever

920
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: seen a white tail to that exact locations probably well

921
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: over a hundred miles, like up in North Park, Colorado.

922
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: We had a biologist in Colorado tell us, if you

923
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: see a white tailed, put your tag on that. I

924
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: would be sorely, sorely tempted to burn my tag on

925
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: a white tail, purely for the preservation of the mule

926
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: deer in area. I do not want to see him

927
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: come in. Yeah, they really like just for for folks listening.

928
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: Mule deer have many problems, uh not insurmountable problems, that

929
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: they have problems. One of the problems the white tail deer. Uh.

930
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: The white tailed deer is generalists. They do very well,

931
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: uh that they handle stress better than mule deer handle stress,

932
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: and white tailed deer um because of agricultural practices and

933
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: other things, white tailed deer always expanding rain is in

934
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: the new areas and they come into competition with meal deer.

935
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: It oftentimes they went out, um and guys like, white

936
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: tails might be sweet, but um, you know we're not

937
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: gonna run out of white tails, little white wraps in

938
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: the mountains. That's that's cool, bloody. Okay, how do you

939
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: years ago? I like, I remember, I've ever seen this

940
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: one before. How do you fight fear at night? My

941
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: brothers and I do a lot of bad country hunts,

942
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 1: but we struggle with falling asleep at night. I don't

943
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: want to sound like a bunch of woosies, but it

944
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: really pisces us off. It doesn't matter how far we

945
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: hike in or how tired we are, the fear settles

946
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: in every time. Just curious how one fights that. I

947
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: think that um exposure. For me personally, I think that

948
00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: everything that you're afraid of exposure makes the fear go way.

949
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: I used to be afraid of taking my skiff outside

950
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: of the arm, out of the open straight. I don't

951
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: even think about it at all anymore. What happened was

952
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: I just kept doing it so I wasn't afraid of

953
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: it anymore. And yeah, man, when I first started hunting

954
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: the mountains and Grizzly Bearer country, I'd go up and

955
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: be laying in bed at night and be a little scared.

956
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: Now it's lasting on my mind. That's my I don't

957
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: have any like psychological any might have some kind of

958
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: psychological tricky has got a lot of little mental tricks,

959
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: not for this one, not for this one. But I

960
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: think I agree with you, I mean across the board.

961
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: You know. I was just thinking about how like I

962
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: was kind of scared and nervous the first time I

963
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: came a shot, you know, with you guys and talking

964
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: to big wigs, you know, and then like you just

965
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: learned how to be comfortable in that situation, and you

966
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: know it's I'm just not worried about it anymore. You know,

967
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: it's just exposure practice. I wonder if those guys have

968
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: a specific instance that they're like, that they've heard of

969
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 1: or something that they call back that is is causing

970
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 1: that fear, that trepidation, like something the buddy got muled

971
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: by a bear or what ye maybe they hunt something

972
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: back alleen Tijuana. Maybe somebody pulled a shank on them

973
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: in the matter. I don't know, but I would just

974
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: say that, you know, do you get scared in the mountains, Yeah,

975
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: just of the unknown. It's of the unknown. But you

976
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: can't like that's any fear, like you said, I mean,

977
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: there's no better way to put it. You can't dwell

978
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: on that fear. Yeah, it's just your ego and you're

979
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 1: in your head. You're a little ego. And and again

980
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: it's the instances of something bad happening when you're in

981
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: a two man tent in the back country is very slim,

982
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: you know. I think, I think too is about fear

983
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: and stuff. Is like when you're not afraid. So when

984
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: you're just sitting at home and in a very comfortable place,

985
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: if you if you sit and say, you know what,

986
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: from this perspective of being home and safe, I'm comfortable,

987
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: I do recognize that it's a um, it's an irrational

988
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: fear that I'm that I'm feeling. I think that once

989
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: you recognize the fear as being baseless of irrational, I

990
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: think you almost have a personal responsibility to conquer because

991
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: you should at all times your life beyond the lookout

992
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: for irrational ship that you do. You should add those

993
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: guys should ask himself what you know? I could come back,

994
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: like what leads to that fear? Like, how do you

995
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: you know is your development as a person what leads

996
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: to But allowing that fear to have a causation where

997
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: you can't sleep because I have fear sometimes when I

998
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: get tired and go to sleep, and I might be

999
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: a little scared, I might hear a noise, but I'm

1000
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm there to do. Something's gonna go to sleep, and

1001
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna let that

1002
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: fear regulate that. But is that part of your personality

1003
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: that you let everything you're scared of have a you know,

1004
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: cause and effect in your life? Run your life, run

1005
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: your life like I just don't think in general that

1006
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: you should. That's not how I live my life. I

1007
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it, Hunting wouldn't do it, and raising a

1008
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: child wouldn't do it in any and anything. But I

1009
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: know I know people that do let their fears, you know,

1010
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: run their lives. And if they think all the the

1011
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: West Nile Vos is gonna get him, if they see

1012
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: a mosquito, they run. YEA to me, I think, what's

1013
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: the odds I'm gonna get bit by emscuito? With west

1014
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: nil oars, I don't give a ship go ahead and

1015
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: bite me. Let's see, let's test the odds, because that's

1016
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's people canceling trips because something happened fos

1017
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: away from there. Cal not really inspired by that question, man,

1018
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: I do not recall every being afraid of sleeping outside.

1019
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: I've had far more restless nights sleeping in my bed

1020
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: thinking about all the stuff I forgot to do at work. Yeah. Yeah,

1021
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 1: so it Uh, there's a price for doing everything, I guess.

1022
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: And if you want to sleep in a really beautiful

1023
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: or if you want to be in a really beautiful

1024
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: spot the very next morning, you gotta sleep there. So, um,

1025
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, if you're having trouble and I'm not knocking

1026
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: on these guys at all, but you know, if you're

1027
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 1: having trouble sleeping, take a long nap in the middle

1028
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: of the day. You know, it's like, oh, get your

1029
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: sleeping done then, yeah, get your sleeping done then you'll

1030
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: be fine. Yeah. I like thinking about fears like a

1031
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: pet subject about I'm interested in it. Um. So this

1032
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: one's for Ryan Callahan specifically. No, I'm not I'm not

1033
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: gonna do It's nothing. It's not what you think. What

1034
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: is the first light logo supposed to be? It's very easy,

1035
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: but you hear him out. I've had arguments with friends

1036
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: over this. It always looked to me like the sun

1037
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: peeking over a mountain, hence the name first Light. My

1038
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: friend thought it was the letter F laying sideways. I

1039
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: don't see that. I would say, you are correct, it is.

1040
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: It is the sun coming up over the top of

1041
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: the mountain. So first light, first light of the day. Um.

1042
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, many people get confused by it um, which

1043
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: I kind of enjoy because people ask questions about it,

1044
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of a good marketing tact.

1045
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: And the name first lighted I get a good laugh

1046
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: out of it every year, multiple times because our competition

1047
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: has say our name, because every good hunting story has

1048
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: first left first Light. There I was. There's a great

1049
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: book Jim Harrison is a collection of Jim Harrison writing.

1050
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: All of his essays on hunting and fishing, literature, and food,

1051
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: all of us, all to a certain point in his career,

1052
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: are all collected in a book called Just Before Dawn.

1053
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: So if you ever do a spinoff company called Just

1054
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: Before Dawn. At first Light, I saw a yetie, it's

1055
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: perfect right, first light big? Oh yeah, it's ali big. Okay,

1056
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: here's a good one. This is a heavy one. Heavy.

1057
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: I feel like the speller's gotta asked to grind. He says,

1058
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: how do you access wilderness in quotes? If you have

1059
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's in quotes? How do you

1060
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: access wilderness if you have lung cancer and cannot hike,

1061
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: are an amputee and cannot walk, are older and don't

1062
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,439
Speaker 1: have stamina. In short, what you want is a place

1063
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 1: where a tiny percentage of young people can use while

1064
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: their parents and grandparents cannot. Um There's many ways to

1065
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: explain that. I'll point out one that if you came

1066
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: to me, let's say you took a favorite patch of

1067
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: wilderness that I like, but let's say some pure ass wilderness,

1068
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: and you said to me, Steve, uh, we're gonna yet

1069
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: yet want at choices you could never step foot on

1070
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: the north slope of the Brooks Range again ever, on

1071
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: penalty of death, or we're gonna roll it all up.

1072
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: I would say, okay, I'll miss it. So it's bigger

1073
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: than having wilderness, is bigger than just saying like I

1074
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: want it for me and me exclusively. It has tremendous

1075
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: implications for wildlife, clean air, clean water sanctuary. It's like

1076
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: it's doing more than just being a place for people

1077
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: to go. If there are activities that we can conduct

1078
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: in wilderness that do not damage the integrity of wilderness,

1079
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,919
Speaker 1: all the better. I don't think the goal of every

1080
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: patch of ground on Earth is to increase its accessibility

1081
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: to all folks in all forms of use. That's one

1082
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: way that I would look at that question, Well, what

1083
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: I aspect do you? I mean, he's looking at from

1084
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: a purely personal aspect. He's like, if I can't be there,

1085
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: why haven't? Yeah? And I were? I think all of

1086
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: us here, I would say, we think about the land

1087
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: and the animal before we think about ourselves. Like if

1088
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: I think about, well where can I go first? Or

1089
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: where can my dad go? Or where can my grandfather go?

1090
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: Or where can my people in my life go, I

1091
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't treat wilderness and with the respected deserves. But

1092
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: I think, what, as you said, what's the best thing

1093
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: for that that piece of ground? You do that? And

1094
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: then if that means elderly folks or you know, people

1095
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: disabilities can't get there, I'm sorry we're doing what's best

1096
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: for that piece of property, for that ground, for that land,

1097
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: for those animals population. Jim Pozzle with the great conservation

1098
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: and writer. Do you remember the story yet? Tell the story.

1099
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: I'll do my best, But yeah, that's what your head when.

1100
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, he put it, Um, what was the what

1101
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: was it? Do you remember the name of the fight

1102
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: or the mountains that that was? It was? It was

1103
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: based upon that. When the guy got up to speak, No,

1104
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: I don't remember. They were arguing over a patch of

1105
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: wilderness area. Yeah, whether some roads should be shot up

1106
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: in and there. I think the gist of it basically

1107
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: came was like, um, you're saying at the time when

1108
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,479
Speaker 1: he stood up and said, I'm like eighty years old,

1109
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to take away from the current

1110
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,439
Speaker 1: young generation just so that I can have my time

1111
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: in there now as an old guy. Yeah, you know

1112
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: what I mean. I need to we need to preserve

1113
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: it so that those young people do have places to

1114
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: be scared at night and sleeping in the tent and

1115
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: be wild and free and to experience that. And just

1116
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: because I've aged out of that. And by the way

1117
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: he stood up and said, I'm eighty some years old

1118
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: and I can still get in there, So age has

1119
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this. Yeah, but yeah he was.

1120
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: He was respect was like a place he'd always spend

1121
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: time as a young man. And another guy was arguing like, well,

1122
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: now I'm old, I can't get in there more, so

1123
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: we need roles to let me get in there, and

1124
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: that was that was his replies, So you want to

1125
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: deprive all future generations of what you had, what you

1126
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: had loved. Do you think this guy asked the question,

1127
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: is a millennial. I think he's sub thirty. Yeah, I

1128
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: don't know. It's hard to say. This guy could just

1129
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,479
Speaker 1: be playing the devil's advocate with wilderness. I think maybe

1130
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: that that idea that you know, why not me is

1131
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: is I'm thirty one and I'm I guess I'm a

1132
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: millennial for better tense purposes like the generation I'm in

1133
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: that why not me? Oh yeah, why why not the

1134
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: thing that I want to do? Why not my personal

1135
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: sensibility before the betterment of of the thing that I

1136
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,479
Speaker 1: say that I want to do that I love? Yeah,

1137
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: you mean to tell me that these younger little whipper staffers. Seriously,

1138
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: what the Sam Hill there's whippers? My optic view of

1139
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: the world. That's that's a good question. Quick point. Oh please,

1140
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: I have taken many old infirmed, amputeed people into the

1141
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: wilderness on fantastic trips. That's a good point. Too. Many

1142
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: Hell's canny wilderness. Most people the enjoy the Hills Canyon

1143
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: enjoy it from a boat going through the Hells Canyon,

1144
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: and what they're looking at is panoramic views of wilderness.

1145
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: Another quick point. You go Glacier National Park, gorgeous, stunning

1146
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: panoramic views, waterfalls, uh, plenty of wildlife. The vast majority

1147
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: of visitors to Glacier National Park, they see that park

1148
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: from the going to the Sun road only they they

1149
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: may leave the vehicle, but it's to go step out

1150
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: on a you know, a concrete viewpoint. They just go

1151
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: stop and look at the scenery. You cannot tell me

1152
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: that those people don't appreciate that scenery because they didn't

1153
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: hike into it and it given the choice, I can't

1154
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: imagine those people would say, ah, probably don't really need

1155
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: this because they can feel it. You can feel it

1156
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: in its proximity. It's overpowering. The main thing I think,

1157
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: as well as the reason I will always be a

1158
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: wilderness advocate is I'm not. I don't think we have

1159
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: any real chance of running out of non wilderness places.

1160
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: Like I do not fear for the future of roads,

1161
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: I do not fear for the future of concrete. I

1162
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: just like I'm like, get it now, Yeah, it's just yeah.

1163
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: We will not run out of that ship. We will

1164
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: not run out of places to drive vehicles. Will we

1165
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: will run out of places that do not have those things.

1166
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: So I will always believe in the preservation of those

1167
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 1: last little vestiges of wilderness that we have. And again,

1168
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: if those places can be you know, live alone, live

1169
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: harmoniously along low impact activities, all the better. I'm gonna

1170
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: keep beating. We have no idea the value of what

1171
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: these places are gonna have, especially years down the line.

1172
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation a lot lately with people where

1173
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: we take it for granting. Now we're like, we go

1174
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: hunting wilderness all the time. We get film permits, going

1175
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: great tracts of national force to go do our business.

1176
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: And it's very I want to point out, which we

1177
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: pay for, yes, gladly, and um, we literally take it

1178
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: for granted. It's something we're going and just do it.

1179
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: Willy nilly, and as populations grow and we have less

1180
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,919
Speaker 1: and less of that, I feel like in fifty years

1181
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: our kids there might be a point where we'll just

1182
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: is now that we just walk you just part of

1183
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: the trailhead and walk into You're gonna have to start

1184
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: drawing permits more and more just to access those places

1185
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: because to a point when there's too many cars in

1186
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: the trailhead that will start to affect the wilderness. It

1187
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 1: won't be as pristine pristine. And so as that demand grows,

1188
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: like you see with anything, the price is going to

1189
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: go up. You know, you know, there's less there's not

1190
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: gonna be the supply. So it's just like, exactly get

1191
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: it now while you can't, because fight for it now,

1192
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: while you can't. No, no, no, But I'm saying, but

1193
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: we're not gonna stop the fact there's gonna be more

1194
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: people that are gonna want to enjoy those places, and

1195
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: so it might not be as accessible as it is now. Yeah,

1196
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: it's not a replenishable resource. You know what this this

1197
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: person pulls her own question because I emailed you over

1198
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: the summer. My I taught my eighty eight year old

1199
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: lung cancer surviving one lungded grandmother how to fly fish,

1200
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: because not because I wanted to teach her how to

1201
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: fly fish. I didn't force her into it. She said, Hey,

1202
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to fly fish this weekend.

1203
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: She's determined to might not be next weekend. Yeah, you know.

1204
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: So it's like, maybe if you think you can't go

1205
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: into the wilderness, you don't want to go in the wheelers,

1206
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: surprise yourself, you know. I think that baffled me about

1207
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: politicians who sort of aggressively go after wilderness and who

1208
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:14,479
Speaker 1: are like antagonistic to the idea of wilderness. Is where

1209
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: if the goal of of public service and the goal

1210
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: of being alive is to do good work that will

1211
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 1: be remembered well, that you will have you'll build a

1212
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: legacy for yourself. If you just look at American history,

1213
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: there's no there's no like example of a well remembered,

1214
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: great legacy individual who made it their life's goal to

1215
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: destroy wilderness. We look now at Yellowstone National Park and

1216
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,680
Speaker 1: it's like, what is what is Yellowstone's approval rating? It's

1217
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: like this like great act of genius. Right then, then

1218
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: what was eighteen seventy six or eighteen seventy seven or

1219
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: something that someone would have stepped and said, let's set

1220
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: this big chunk of amazing landscapes. And I were like,

1221
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: what foresight? What genius on their part? And then rose Belt,

1222
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: he's gonna set aside all to hell his eleven thousand

1223
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: acres of land per day in office. Okay, they go

1224
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: and carve his face on a big damn mountain. They

1225
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: write books about. There are scores of biographies about Roosevelt,

1226
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 1: just with his relationship to wilderness. He is one of

1227
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: those guys that everyone points to, Democrat, Republican, everyone wants

1228
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 1: to liken themselves to Roosevelt. He's an American hero for

1229
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: what he did for national forests. So just by looking

1230
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: at the way history has gone, how do you think

1231
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:49,440
Speaker 1: that you're gonna now be anti wilderness and be remembered

1232
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: well down the road. Here's here's a good one. How

1233
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: do you handle a gut shot, dear? Really? No different

1234
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: for me. It's how that clean everything out real good

1235
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 1: if anything spilled inside. Oh, you don't do gutless method automatically,

1236
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: you know what? Man? I know him like an old

1237
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: time you fella on this. I don't I do not

1238
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: like I do not like gutless. I just know that's

1239
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: the I gotta hear more about that, because I'm I'm like,

1240
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 1: I'm from I'm from the East Coast. We gutted everything,

1241
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: everything we killed, we gutted, and now everywhere I go

1242
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: the gutless. If I don't know every the ins and

1243
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: out of the gutless method, I'm not. They're like, what's

1244
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 1: wrong with well? Then they do the gutless method and

1245
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: they're still digging around the damn guts. Do they want

1246
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: to get delivering the heart and the tender loins out?

1247
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 1: That's my biggest problem. You getting the tender loins out.

1248
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: You still gotta it doesn't take me that long. I

1249
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: have the guts out of the thing so fast, then

1250
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: I can sit down and make a fire, have a snack,

1251
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 1: drink some coffee. I'm not sitting there watching it slowly bloat.

1252
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:50,799
Speaker 1: I will get the guts. Are my tender loins against

1253
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: anybody's gutless method tenderloins any day of the week. They

1254
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: look like two completely different pieces of meat because you

1255
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: get them out real nice. Yeah. Yeah, you're hunting with

1256
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: a bunch of hacks. That name. I can't argue there's

1257
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: some great hull with some great hunters who liked the

1258
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: gutless method. But it's just I like and Yanni YouTube.

1259
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: Yanni a video YouTube. Yannie made a video like how

1260
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: to how many people have watched your gutless with y Gosh?

1261
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: I haven't checked. Probably over a year. I don't know.

1262
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:28,560
Speaker 1: Let's just say quarter quarter million watched the gutless with

1263
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 1: Yanni gutless. This is how to do the gutless Yanni

1264
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: breaking down gutless. Kent and I went out one morning.

1265
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 1: I was telling me about the mountain bike. Kent and

1266
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: I mountain bike into this spot and he ended up

1267
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: shooting this buck um. First shot was a little bit

1268
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: back and he's like, we should probably do the gutless method.

1269
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: I was like, I can salvage it in the creeks,

1270
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, not too far away. Uh. And he's still

1271
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: says to this day that some of that meat was

1272
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: poor and he ended up as a precaution, so he didn't,

1273
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, bias his children grinding it all and turn

1274
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: it into sausage because he thought I had some gut

1275
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: taste to it. Yeah, no gut like just to speak

1276
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 1: about gutschot deer anyone who says they've never had when

1277
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 1: you're kind of lying because all that needs it really happens.

1278
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: If if it's quartering slightly in any kind of direction,

1279
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: you could you could center punch it and still wind up.

1280
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: As soon as you break the abdominal uh, you know,

1281
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: as soon as you kind of break through the diaphragm,

1282
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna hit. Something's gonna go on. So we could

1283
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: say paunch. If you hit the paunch, that's a gut shot.

1284
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: I got him out. I take my water bottle, and

1285
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: if it means I'm gonna be thirsty, I take whatever

1286
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 1: I got for water. I cleaned everything up. I used

1287
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: snow to clean it up. I trim all that business away,

1288
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: washed the whole thing out, and then proceed on as

1289
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: what never happened. Are we making the assumption that this

1290
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: person is is saying you have gut shot at here

1291
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: that is dead on the ground. Maybe he means he

1292
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: gut shot and it ran off, like do you in

1293
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: that case, wait, do not pressure it. Let it lie

1294
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: down and die. If there's even a inkling that you

1295
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: might have got in the guts are far back. Yeah,

1296
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 1: A cautionary bow hunter, no matter what hit he gets,

1297
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: is not gonna follow that animal for an hour. If

1298
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: he's like, I it was first ripped back from the show,

1299
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: couldn't have been better. He's still gonna sit tight for

1300
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: fear that that thing will lay down, and that will

1301
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 1: go a little ways to lay down, and then he'll

1302
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: come trouncing through the woods and it'll jump up and

1303
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 1: then cover one mile in the next handful of seconds

1304
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:57,640
Speaker 1: and give him all hell finding it. So, if you

1305
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: know you got a gut shot, you want to wait

1306
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 1: as long as you can push it. When considering the

1307
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: air temperature, otter factors can lead to spoilage, don't go

1308
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 1: chasing off after it because it's gonna go and lay down,

1309
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna jump it up and it's gonna

1310
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 1: run like holy hell and become very difficult trailing, very

1311
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: difficult to blood trailer. Wait yeah, wait, how did you

1312
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: get to do what you're doing? What should I study

1313
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: in college to be able to work in the outdoor industry? Yeah?

1314
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: I used to get that a lot about writing, and

1315
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I just never meet I've never met, Like,

1316
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: no two writers has the same story. There's no like template.

1317
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 1: If you're like, how do you become a lawyer, You're like, oh, well,

1318
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: study policy and undergraduate and you go law school and

1319
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: then like you take the bar exam and you're a lawyer.

1320
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 1: But in the outdoor industry is not like that. Here

1321
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: we have four people that work in the outdoor industry

1322
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: radically different stories. Well, think about the outdoor industry. I mean,

1323
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,560
Speaker 1: it's not they're asking specifically, like to to do what

1324
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: you do or to do I want any of us

1325
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: here to do to say outdoor industry outdoor. I mean,

1326
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 1: the outdoor industry is gigantic. You could be a customer

1327
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 1: service wrapping the outdoor industry if you wanted to be,

1328
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 1: and translate that into into a career. You know, I'm

1329
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: assuming they want to have a career where they can

1330
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: hunt as their job. Let's say that they mean spending

1331
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of time outside, and we all spend a

1332
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: ton of time outside. Yeah, I mean it's to me

1333
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: it can be as simple as finding your way into

1334
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 1: a company like First Light. Finding your way into a company,

1335
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: probably it's probably better as a smaller company, finding your

1336
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 1: way in a copy like First Light and getting yourself noticed.

1337
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 1: Maybe you're maybe you're an assistant, maybe your customer service rap.

1338
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 1: But being passionate about hunting an environment where there is opportunity.

1339
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: It's as easy, It can be as easy as that,

1340
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, get into a place where you can get

1341
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 1: noticed by people that can pull the pull the trigger

1342
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: on you. Having a job where you can go outside. Yeah, yeah,

1343
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot easier. There certainly is no degree

1344
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: for it for that specific purpose. There's no magical one.

1345
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 1: You can't major and want to be outside all the time,

1346
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,680
Speaker 1: but man Field biology gets you outside a lot. I

1347
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 1: came into it where I wanted to be, like, I

1348
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: like to hunt. I wanted to be an outdoor water

1349
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: because I thought that would allow me to do a

1350
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: lot of hunting and fishing. And in fact I was correct,

1351
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: and just put up with a lot of years of

1352
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of uncertainty and then being really like

1353
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: really truly honestly broke not that I had feared, not

1354
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 1: that I was gonna go like unfed. Right, I had

1355
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:36,680
Speaker 1: the luxury of always having like plenty of things I

1356
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 1: could fall back on, family that was there, Like, it

1357
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was gonna wind up homeless, right, um,

1358
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: like a big support network of people who were not

1359
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: gonna let me nose dive and and and and burn out,

1360
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: but a ton of uncertainty about how this is all

1361
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: going to play out. But just like keeping going on

1362
01:16:55,120 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: it not um not being seduced by easy you're the

1363
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: less attractive options is is something well out the already

1364
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: specifically is not a profitable a venture? No not that's yeah.

1365
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: I want to being really lucky in that way. Now.

1366
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: I lived this like really like very comfortable existence that

1367
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: I never would have thought I've got I would have

1368
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,560
Speaker 1: gotten into. You know, I always used to see the

1369
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 1: stream flow of the U s g S stream flow survey. Uh,

1370
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: setups on the side of the river. Go man, I

1371
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: need to work for the U S g S. I

1372
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: could just have my flyer out with me all the time,

1373
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: check all these years stream blow charts. Give me that job,

1374
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: but just doing maintenance on those right, yeah you think. Yeah,

1375
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: my wife is a wetlands ecologists and there were many

1376
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: years when I was you know, Guiden hunter fishing trips

1377
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: and then Guiden eight or ninety days hunting every year,

1378
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 1: and yet she still was spending more time in intent

1379
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: than I was on the core to be here. So yeah,

1380
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 1: go be a field scientist. I want to point out

1381
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: that might not be outdoors industry. But it wouldn't be

1382
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: outside of clarify, or if he did, we don't have

1383
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: that with us here right now. Have I told the

1384
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: story about you and me and sitting in Bozeman and

1385
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 1: you're watching a guide go by? Yes? I told it

1386
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Never mind. Okay, here's a last one.

1387
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 1: This is This is a heavy hitter, never done. Where

1388
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: is this here? Sorry? That's a good I'm i gonna

1389
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: ask it. This is going on here? I'm not gonna

1390
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 1: ask this one. It's a good one. It's hunting to

1391
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: write or a privilege. Oh that's a good one. Um, privilege,

1392
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: damn it. Oh. As much time as you spend in

1393
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,600
Speaker 1: the wilderness, do you feel the presence or calling of

1394
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 1: God or of a certain belief or spirituality? The wilderness

1395
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: gives me a yeah. The the wilderness gives me a

1396
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 1: sense of um, of it like and of itself. The

1397
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: wilderness in and of itself gives me a feeling of

1398
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: being higher than man. And I do feel like I

1399
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: have been moved tears by wilderness experiences. Where where, let's say,

1400
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: if you're going to define spirituality or something as a

1401
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 1: belief and something that can't be understood. Um, I think

1402
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: you accept sort of on like a notion of faith. Yes,

1403
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: I do feel uh like overwhelmed by its power, overwhelmed

1404
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: by an immense sense of time, of of the path,

1405
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: like of the quiet passage of time that happens in wilderness.

1406
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 1: Any one else cared to take that one? Huh? Yeah,

1407
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 1: My family is kind of built on I would first

1408
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 1: say the wilderness brings me closer to creation. And I

1409
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 1: think religion is a is it as us trying to

1410
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: figure out creation, trying to intellectually and emotionally figured out

1411
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: how we were created and what that means and what

1412
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: that means for our world. So like when you're out

1413
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: there and you're among this thing that you can't explain

1414
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 1: that was created you know in concert with you, it

1415
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 1: brings me closer to that concept, closer than Vegas. Yeah,

1416
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: I mean I don't have spiritual feelings about No, I never,

1417
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: there's no possibilities. There's a few things you could do

1418
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,680
Speaker 1: that could fake that, but no, that to me, it

1419
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,719
Speaker 1: brings me closer to creation. So that's where I connect

1420
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,519
Speaker 1: through that creation and my my father, my mother, and

1421
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: my father, they are there. They were raised religious or

1422
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 1: their parents were we're very religious, and they both kind

1423
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 1: of got away from that, and now they go every

1424
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 1: Sunday they go down to to some national forests that

1425
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: that is near my house in Maryland, and they walk

1426
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: on this stream and they call that church and they

1427
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: just commune with nature. And when someone dies, they go

1428
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: there and they they take some part of that wild place,

1429
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 1: like whether it's an animal or whatever, and they assigned

1430
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 1: someone who died to that animal or to that place.

1431
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: That way they can go back and always visit that person.

1432
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: They try to, you know, assign some characteristic of that

1433
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 1: person to that animal or something, so when they see

1434
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 1: that animal they can they can then remember that person.

1435
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: So they've used you know, wilderness as a vehicle to

1436
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: explore their religious beliefs and figured out. My dad is,

1437
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:37,559
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a songwriter in his own line.

1438
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: He writes sings songs about it and writes about it. Yeah,

1439
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: Artie FARTZI little family him. Man, you gotta have him on,

1440
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: like you're gotta have him on. I'd like to. He's

1441
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: a proper redneck though, don't okay, good good, good gilt,

1442
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 1: Yeah man, Yeah, many short answers, yes, of course like that.

1443
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,600
Speaker 1: I think if you're not having those connections. Um, you

1444
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 1: may be out there for the wrong the wrong reasons

1445
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: if you haven't got it yet. I haven't hasn't clicked

1446
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: yet because you know, I was raised Catholic for at

1447
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: least half of my upbringing, and I truly enjoyed going

1448
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 1: to church. Um, but it you know, it dawned on

1449
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,640
Speaker 1: me eventually that what I really liked about going to

1450
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 1: church was just kind of quiet contemplation and uh, you know,

1451
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: it was kind of going through the motions everything else.

1452
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 1: And um, as you may know, I kind of was like, yeah,

1453
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: don't be a dick, got it? And uh uh you know,

1454
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: so I just sit there and think and it was

1455
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: a great time to think and and yeah, I need

1456
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: like a good week alone in the woods and I

1457
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 1: can get all that him for a year. Um. So yeah,

1458
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 1: the quiet contemplation can be found in wild places and

1459
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: um and yeah, so yes, yes, straight up, oh yeah,

1460
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: big yes, characticks bound on that. No, I gotta cut

1461
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 1: you off quick concluding thought. Please, Now, I have many

1462
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: many times dogged on our very own meat eater store,

1463
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: but that son of a bit up and running up

1464
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: and running. We even got a meteor podcast t shirt

1465
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:32,719
Speaker 1: coming out. We got men's and women's T shirts, hats,

1466
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:36,679
Speaker 1: all kinds of ship even sweet rapid rifle cover. Rifle

1467
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 1: covers do you see on the show all the time

1468
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: with the mediate to logo on them? Get over there.

1469
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,799
Speaker 1: When you're done doing that, go to Yanni's T shirt company,

1470
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 1: Hunt Eat. He's got a sweet meat or T shirt

1471
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 1: up on air. What else you go? Humpy states? Thousands,

1472
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: yea thousand states. I don't know the exact amount of

1473
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: states now, but we are up to uh forty different

1474
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 1: products they got, they got they got a new suite

1475
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 1: one called four Seasons and it kind of like in

1476
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: four nice little logo spells out good hunting fishing year.

1477
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: It's even got a winter cotton tail on it. Bank

1478
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: recluding thoughts, coluding thoughts. I mean, you got some deep,

1479
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 1: deep audience what I'm telling you. But these are these

1480
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 1: are cold, these are called which I appreciate but still

1481
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 1: still appreciate the people that listen to this and watch

1482
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 1: you care about it. Man curated, I should say, not

1483
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: cold curated. But that's you know, people asking good questions

1484
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 1: because they'll know you'll give good answers to it. Thank you.

1485
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 1: I just wanted to clothes with, you know, pumping you up. Please.

1486
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 1: I love it. You're flying fine human being kill I agree.

1487
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: I think I think good thank you is is in order.

1488
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm getting an incredible amount of feedback, um ever since

1489
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: uh you know, a meat eater hitting Netflix, and it's

1490
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:05,600
Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, it's the the fan feedback and

1491
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: the range of fans I've never seen attached to anything

1492
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 1: hunting related. You know, it's like over and over again,

1493
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: I get uh, you know, it's the only show my

1494
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: wife will watch. My little girls watch this episode over

1495
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 1: and over again like it's amazing. So yeah, thank you

1496
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: and keep asking questions. Good yeah, no concluding thoughts today.

1497
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: All right, thanks tuning it.