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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: So I played pick a ball three or four times

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Speaker 2: a week, not this week because the gal who owns

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Speaker 2: the court where I play is an Amsterdam on kind

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Speaker 2: of a honeymoon.

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Speaker 1: This is Vicky Flaxman.

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Speaker 2: I do that, and then I go to the gym,

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Speaker 2: you know, like three times a week if I can

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Speaker 2: force myself. I don't like it.

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Speaker 1: She's ninety one years old and she's super athletic.

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Speaker 2: I like the rowing machine because years ago I paddled,

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Speaker 2: you know, outrigger canoes.

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Speaker 1: So have you've always been a jock?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, more or less. Yeah. I used to play beach volleyball,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I grew up in Santa Monica, so

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Speaker 2: that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: Vicky lives in Scottsdale, Arizona. Now she's one of the

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Speaker 1: original Malibu surfers. She started surfing Malibu in nineteen forty nine.

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Speaker 1: That's years before Gidget, even before Mickey Dora. And she

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Speaker 1: was hardcore, a bruiser five five, one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: pounds with broad muscular shoulders and a take no shit attitude.

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Speaker 1: Mickey Dora thought he owned Malibu. He considered anyone who

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Speaker 1: started surfing after him an invader. But to Vicki Flaxman

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Speaker 1: Mickey Dora was the kook. I'm Dana Goodyear and this

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Speaker 1: is a Lost Hills bonus episode, The Toughest Girl in Malibu.

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Speaker 1: Vicky got into surfing through a friend of hers, a

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Speaker 1: lifeguard at the beach in Santa Monica. She was eighteen

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Speaker 1: years old.

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Speaker 2: He said, I'm going up to Malibu. A surf is

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Speaker 2: kind of good. Would you like to go and try

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Speaker 2: tandem surfing with me? I said, yeah, I'd love it.

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Speaker 2: We went up there and we went out, caught a

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Speaker 2: couple of waves and that was it. That was the

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Speaker 2: summer of forty nine. Didn't surf the rest of that time.

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Speaker 2: I didn't start until the summer of nineteen fifty. And

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Speaker 2: the reason being I didn't have a board.

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Speaker 1: That's a problem. It's hard to imagine now. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: an easy way to get a surfboard. But Vicky had

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Speaker 1: a friend, Joe Quigg, who'd made a board for his girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: It was light and maneuverable. It was a girl board

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Speaker 1: and it became the precursor to the modern longboard. So

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Speaker 1: that board that you got that was Joe Quigg's fourth

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Speaker 1: board that he ever made. Like that is that the

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Speaker 1: one that you decorated with your name.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that was the one, and Claire did hers,

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Speaker 2: and Aggie did hers, and it was the Aggie board,

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Speaker 2: the Vicki board, the Claire board, and so on and

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Speaker 2: so forth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone wanted Vicky's board.

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Speaker 2: My first board was nine ten and my last board

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Speaker 2: was nine six, and that was considered small, and I

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Speaker 2: think it was. I think it was twenty between twenty

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Speaker 2: two and twenty three inches wide. As I remember, you know.

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Speaker 2: The thing was every summer that I would go to Hawaii,

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Speaker 2: I would take a board and then I'd sell it

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Speaker 2: and come home. I never brought the board back with me,

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Speaker 2: and the guys that were over there were just dying

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Speaker 2: to surf them, I remember, because they hadn't seen them

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Speaker 2: till nineteen fifty one.

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Speaker 1: Vicky says these boards changed surfing and she was part

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Speaker 1: of that change.

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Speaker 2: People would just take off on a wave and just

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Speaker 2: stand there, you know, forever all the way in, maybe

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Speaker 2: do a few adjustments, not like Mickey Dora did, but

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Speaker 2: a few, but they didn't really make those big turns.

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Speaker 2: And the boards that Joe designed for us, we could

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Speaker 2: do that. Most of the girls didn't, but I.

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Speaker 1: Did those boards obviously had fins one, so you were

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Speaker 1: able to start moving on a wave and walking up

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Speaker 1: the board too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we did. You know. We try to hang ten

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Speaker 2: whenever we could.

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Speaker 1: In the late forties and early fifties, it was hard

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Speaker 1: to access the surf at Malibu Beach. You had to

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Speaker 1: navigate the property lines of a run down seaside mansion

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Speaker 1: owned by the descendants of the Ringe family, who had

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Speaker 1: once owned all of Malibu.

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Speaker 2: Well, there were fences, but it wasn't really closed. Upper

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Speaker 2: ways was closed because the Adamson estate was there.

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere that you and your friends like tore

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Speaker 1: down the fence so you could get onto the beach.

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Speaker 2: Well, whatever there was we tore down. I mean we

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Speaker 2: were going to get to the beach.

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Speaker 1: There were other obstacles.

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Speaker 2: Malibu in those days. The whole ocean floor there was

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Speaker 2: full of sea urchins, and if you lost your board,

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Speaker 2: you were going to get sea urchins stuck in your

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Speaker 2: feet or your hand. You know, we'd try to go

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Speaker 2: like on our hands and knees to keep the weight

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Speaker 2: off those things, because as soon as you stepped on one,

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Speaker 2: it broke off in your foot and the guys would

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Speaker 2: go behind the shack and pee on their feet. And

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Speaker 2: they said, oh, yeah, you could pee on them and

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Speaker 2: they'll come out. Well, obviously we couldn't, and we'd go

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Speaker 2: home in the evening and you'd be with a needle,

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Speaker 2: you know, and picking these things out of your feet.

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Speaker 1: Vicky and her surf crew men and women, couples friends

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Speaker 1: went up and down the coast and over the border

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Speaker 1: to Mexico looking for waves. On one road trip, they

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Speaker 1: stopped at Wind and Sea Beach in La Joya.

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Speaker 2: And the surf was humong us, was so big, and

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Speaker 2: they said, oh, Vicky, you've got to go out. Nobody

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Speaker 2: is there. Girls don't go out to the point. They

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Speaker 2: just surf inside. I said, you got to be kidding.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going out in that. It was I don't know,

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Speaker 2: ten feet or more. And they said, you got to,

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Speaker 2: you have to, you have to, you know, show them

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Speaker 2: the Malibu Way. So I said, okay, but don't leave

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Speaker 2: me out there. If you take off on a wave

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Speaker 2: and leave me out there, I'll kill you. So I

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Speaker 2: went out there and took off on a wave. And

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Speaker 2: I was used to sliding right, so the first thing

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Speaker 2: I did was start to go right, and the whole

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Speaker 2: thing just collapsed in front of me. And then I

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Speaker 2: tried to go left and I couldn't. It just closed out.

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Speaker 2: And in those days we didn't have leashes and went

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Speaker 2: and sea's way out there, and my board went all

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Speaker 2: the way to the beach and I had to swim.

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Speaker 2: Then I said I'm not going back out there, and

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Speaker 2: they said, yes you are, So finally I went back

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Speaker 2: out there, and then I did catch a wave and

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Speaker 2: I rode it all the way into the beach and

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Speaker 2: people were impressed because no woman, no gal, had ever

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Speaker 2: taken off from the point, and you know, surfed it.

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Speaker 1: These road trips were rough. It was all about the surf.

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Speaker 2: So then after that to Sunset Beach, and then we

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Speaker 2: went across the border and we camped on that bluff

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Speaker 2: for I don't know two or three days. We ate

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Speaker 2: horse meat and Niblet's corn and sir well, there was

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Speaker 2: a there was a market on Pico in Santa Monica,

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Speaker 2: and they it was a meat market and they sold

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Speaker 2: certified horse meat, you know, like inspected and stamped and

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Speaker 2: all that stuff. It wasn't like we were going someplace

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Speaker 2: and finding dead meat.

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Speaker 1: Vicki and her friends were driving around searching for surf.

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Speaker 1: But of course that meant that other people were also

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Speaker 1: driving around searching for surf. It was only a matter

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Speaker 1: of time before they'd find Malibu. And one of those

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Speaker 1: people was a kid named Mickey Dora.

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Speaker 2: I met Mickey the summer of nineteen fifty, but I

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Speaker 2: met him in Santa No Free because he was down there,

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Speaker 2: and his name was Mickey Chapin, and I guess he

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Speaker 2: was living with his stepdad, Guard, because Guard was there too,

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Speaker 2: and so he was one of the you know, the

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Speaker 2: Santa No Free surfers.

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Speaker 1: VICKI was not impressed, not even with Guard Chapin, a

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Speaker 1: notorious hotdogger. Do you remember knowing about Guard or observing

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Speaker 1: him as a really great surfer.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't remember him being a great surfers. For

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Speaker 2: one thing, Santa and No Free is not a good

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Speaker 2: surfing pla. It's a fun place to go surf, the

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Speaker 2: waves are not particularly good, and the best surfers were

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Speaker 2: never really surfing there.

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Speaker 1: At Sano. They were still riding redwood planks and pretty

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Speaker 1: much plowing straight for the beach in the white water.

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Speaker 1: The girl boards that were being developed in Malibu could

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Speaker 1: handle keeping the rider in the unbroken pocket of the wave.

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Speaker 2: So we would come down there and the Santa No

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Speaker 2: Free surfers would make fun of us and they'd say, oh,

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Speaker 2: you guys can't surf on those potato chips. You can't

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Speaker 2: ride the soup. And we said, we don't ride the soup.

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Speaker 2: We're in the curl.

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Speaker 1: Then one day, Mickey, this kid shows up at Malibu.

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Speaker 2: And I said, what are you doing here? You know

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Speaker 2: you're you're from the South Beach. And Mickey being Mickey,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's always got to be so mysterious.

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Speaker 1: He did seemed to have a car guard Chapin was

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Speaker 1: nowhere in sight, and he was dressed awfully strangely for

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Speaker 1: a day at the beach.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Mickey lived in a trench coat. He

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Speaker 2: always wore a trench coat way, I don't care if

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Speaker 2: it was one hundred degrees, he was in a trench coat.

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Speaker 2: And he used to go across the street to the

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Speaker 2: Malibu Market and just he would just load up all

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Speaker 2: his pockets inside. He'd open the trench coat and he think, yeah,

176
00:11:38,916 --> 00:11:42,596
Speaker 2: well I've got lunch here, you know, lunch, dinner or whatever.

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Speaker 2: He just would load up. And of course he never

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Speaker 2: had any money, and so he just scammed to Vicky.

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Speaker 1: Mickey was an annoying teenage twerp, but he would become

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Speaker 1: notorious for his abusive, dangerous behavior in the water. Some

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Speaker 1: called him the inventor of localism, but Vicky recalls being

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Speaker 1: pretty territorial herself back then.

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Speaker 2: And I see somebody paddling for the wave, and I say,

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Speaker 2: don't take off in front of me. And if they

185
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Speaker 2: took off in front of me, I just jump off

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Speaker 2: my board and haul them off. I just haul them

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Speaker 2: off the board into the water. I said, I told

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Speaker 2: you not to take off in front of me. And

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Speaker 2: Micky he did not put up with anybody. He was

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Speaker 2: doing his own thing.

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Speaker 1: Nicky was the least of Vicky's problems. Soon there was

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Speaker 1: a wave of newcomers the vals.

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Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden there were people like

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Speaker 2: from the valley, and we used to say, Ah, we

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Speaker 2: don't like the valley dudes. No, we don't want any

196
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Speaker 2: valley dudes. This is Malibu, it's our beach. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we were very nice.

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Speaker 1: Vicky says. There wasn't really a good reason why they

199
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Speaker 1: picked on people from the valley, just they were outsiders.

200
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Speaker 1: They didn't belong and they were in the way. Micky

201
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Speaker 1: was known to put sugar in the gas tanks of

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Speaker 1: his enemies. VICKI pulled this stunt too.

203
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Speaker 2: There was this one guy I remember, and he had

204
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Speaker 2: a wife and they used to come up to Malibu

205
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Speaker 2: on a motorcycle and I can still remember his green teeth.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was so awful looking and so grubby,

207
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Speaker 2: and so was she, and we all just couldn't stand him.

208
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Speaker 2: So one day we decided that we would put sugar

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Speaker 2: in his gas tank because we didn't a lot like them,

210
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Speaker 2: and they were not nice and they were grubby. And

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Speaker 2: I was standing guard and the guys were putting the

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Speaker 2: sugar or salt or sand or whatever it was in

213
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Speaker 2: the gas tank. At about two months later, there's a

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Speaker 2: policeman at my door asking about me. So it turns

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Speaker 2: out he filed a complaint and we all had to

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Speaker 2: go to Malibu. Well, had to appear well. One of

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Speaker 2: the guys cried and begged this guy not to charge him.

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Speaker 2: Another one in the meantime had joined the service, so

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Speaker 2: he was up in somewhere and I had to go

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Speaker 2: to court and plead guilty for doing what we did.

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Speaker 2: They find us fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: That grubby guy Vicki and her friends decided to mess with.

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Speaker 1: He ended up having an incredibly adventurous life.

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Speaker 2: He had a boat, a sailboat, and he had an

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Speaker 2: all woman crew, and he was sailing to Tahiti. And

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of publicity in the papers about

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Speaker 2: this guy, and it was the same guy. And they

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Speaker 2: sailed down somewhere and disappeared. The boat was don't know,

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Speaker 2: never heard from him. It evidently sunk somewhere with all

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Speaker 2: these gals on board.

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Speaker 1: In the fifties, Malibu was already a haven for celebrities.

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Speaker 1: Vicky was friends with a movie star named Peter Lawford.

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Speaker 1: He was married to one of JFK's sisters, and he

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Speaker 1: always brought interesting people to the beach, including some of

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Speaker 1: the era's biggest names.

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Speaker 2: One time he brought Montgomery Cliff and I remember paddling

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Speaker 2: out and Montgomery Cliff is sitting on a board, straddling aboard,

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Speaker 2: and he said, I don't know what the hell I'm

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Speaker 2: doing out here. I'm absolutely scared to death. I'm scared

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Speaker 2: to death. I'm not taking off on anything. I don't

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Speaker 2: know why I'm here. I don't even like the ocean.

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Speaker 2: What am I doing out here, you know. And then

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Speaker 2: another time he brought this gal's got this white hair,

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Speaker 2: bleached blonde hair, and she's wearing a black one piece

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Speaker 2: bathing suit and she's got white legs and white arms

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Speaker 2: and cell you'll eat all over the place. And we're saying, oh, Peter,

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Speaker 2: where'd you get that skag? Where did you pick that

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Speaker 2: one up? And he said, well, she's a starlet. And

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Speaker 2: we said, oh, you know, what's her name? He said,

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Speaker 2: her name's Marilyn Monroe, which meant absolutely zilch to us

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Speaker 2: at the time. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: For about ten years, Vicky lived to surf day in,

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Speaker 1: day out. But then one day, the same summer that

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Speaker 1: the Gidget movie came out, she stopped.

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Speaker 2: I think the last time I surfed Malibu was nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty nine. I mean, I was married, I had I

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Speaker 2: had a child. I remember going surfing one day. I

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Speaker 2: mean I had the playpen, and I had the umbrella

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Speaker 2: and all the diapers and this and that, and I

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Speaker 2: had to bring somebody with me because you know, I

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Speaker 2: couldn't leave her in the playpen by herself. And then

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Speaker 2: the other thing that happened that day was that this

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Speaker 2: guy came up to me and he said, do you

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Speaker 2: have any wax, ma'am? And it just about blew me

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Speaker 2: off the beach. I thought, ma'am. I mean, I was

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Speaker 2: such a thing, you know, and a brat, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm ma'am. So yeah. And then at

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Speaker 2: that day surfing, I took off on a wave inside

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Speaker 2: and I fell off. I caught an edge and I

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Speaker 2: knew the way I felt it was going. It was

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Speaker 2: going straight up, and the water is very shallow inside,

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Speaker 2: and I went down as deep as I could, and

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Speaker 2: I put my hands over my head and the tail

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Speaker 2: of the board came down on my head and I

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Speaker 2: have this beautiful finger to show for it, my surfing finger. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It cut it open. I had not and the bone

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Speaker 2: was in nine pieces and there were seventeen stitches. And

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Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, it was a cat in a cast

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Speaker 2: from here to hear.

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Speaker 1: So and this whole time, when you had that accident,

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Speaker 1: your baby's on the beach.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. My girlfriend was with me. Had to bundle

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Speaker 2: the baby up and we had to go to the

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Speaker 2: Malibu emergency And you know, I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 2: it's getting to be too much of a hassle. And

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Speaker 2: I mean, and when this guy called me, ma'am. I

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Speaker 2: was like, where are my people.

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Speaker 1: Listening to VICKI, I'm picturing scenes from my own life.

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Speaker 1: Baby on the beach, me and the water. I was

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of my surf journey. She was at

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Speaker 1: the end of hers. She was no longer that tough

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl who pushed people off waves. Her

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Speaker 1: priorities had shifted. Vicky was a surf pioneer, but she

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Speaker 1: didn't let it define her.

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Speaker 2: I always loved the ocean, and can you imagine that

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Speaker 2: I don't even live near an ocean anymore. Surfing didn't

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Speaker 2: affect my whole life.

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Speaker 1: For fifty eight years, she was married to the television

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Speaker 1: actor Van Williams.

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Speaker 2: He was a cowboy from Texas, so you know, I

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Speaker 2: was the beach girl. He was a cowboy.

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Speaker 1: She loved the physicality and the freedom of surfing.

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Speaker 2: You're out there with nature in the water, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're just it's like, I don't know how to describe it.

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Speaker 2: It was just it felt free and surfing on a wave,

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Speaker 2: catching a wave and coming in with the wind blowing

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Speaker 2: in your hair and just doing what you're doing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just a wonderful A wonderful feeling. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we weren't trying to prove anything. We were just out

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Speaker 2: there to do it. Just surf the waves and have fun.

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Speaker 1: That's what draws me to surfing too. More than seventy

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Speaker 1: years after she started surfing at Malibu, Vicky still has

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Speaker 1: that spunky, defiant spirit. Thank you, Vicky. You are amazing

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Speaker 1: and you're going to be my north star from now on.

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Speaker 1: I am going to be a ninety one year old

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Speaker 1: pickleball player.

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Speaker 2: I am. I'm still pretty strong and it's nice that

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Speaker 2: I can still play, so I have to appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I just I have these young grandchildren and I want

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Speaker 2: to be around. I want to see how they turn out.

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Speaker 1: Lost Hills is written and reported by me Dana Goodyear.

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Speaker 1: It's created by me and Ben Adair and produced by

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Speaker 1: Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and

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Speaker 1: you can binge the entire season right now ad free.

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Speaker 1: Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hill Show page in

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot Fm, slash plus