1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: and today on the show, we are answering some listener questions, 4 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: and by we I mean me. You write to me 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: your questions to Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com, and 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: guess what, I do my best to answer them, either 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: on the show, or I try to send an email 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: back to you, or I use my brain powers to 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: transmit the answer directly into your minds. Is it working anyways? 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: Let's get right into it and answer some listener questions 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: about evolutionary biology, animals, pets, you name it. Hello, Katie 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: was listening to your latest listener to episode and got 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: to thinking if you knew anything about Manx cats or 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: the tail liss gene. My husband and I do tea 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: in our trap, neuter and release in our neighborhood, just 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: to do our part to keep our feral cat population 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: in check. Recently, our summer mama cat had three kittens. 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: Two of them were tail us. We've never seen that 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: in real life and thought how cute, but we'd never 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: dealt with tail as cats. Oh boy, are we learning 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: a lot about how important tales are for kiddies. Baron 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: Ferdinand Flufferton Wait no, I didn't say that name right. 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: Baron Ferdinand Flufferrington is the boy kitten, and he is 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: overall very healthy and only has an issue with rectal prolapse. 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: But his sister Bunny is missing the last vertebrae and 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: a half of her spine before it was supposed to 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: be a tale, so she is incontinent because of no 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: nerves there. She sits funny and if you want to, 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: can send you her X ray is pretty well to 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: look at. So I got a sad update that Bunny 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: did pass away due to these complications, so you know 32 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: my condolences for that. They had a normal torty sister 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: and we got her a home, but we accidentally gained 34 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: a special needs kitten into our clouder, given that they 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: are harder to find homes for and our local rescues 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: are full. Anyways, I don't know if it would make 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: for a good topic, but I would be curious about 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: what causes the M gene. According to the Internet, this 39 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: is what makes cat's tail is And if the tails 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: are so important to cats, why would they have something 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: in their DNA that makes them not have one. Is 42 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: it just mutated? I will include pictures of the kittens. 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: Thank you so much and can't wait for the next episode. Sincerely, 44 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: Danielle s Hi Danielle, thank you so much for the 45 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: work that you guys do for feral cats. I'm so 46 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: sorry to hear about Bunny, but I am sure you 47 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: guys gave her the best care and end of life 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: care possible. So thank you so much for the work 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: that you guys do. One reason that cat rescuers might 50 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: find a high rate of genetic mutations is that feral 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: cat populations often suffer from genetic bottlenecks, so that's essentially inbreeding. 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: This is caused by freeways or other physical barriers between populations, 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: which can result in a higher rate of genetic mutations. 54 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: Some feral cat populations are highly diverse, but some are 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: less diverse. It depends on the geography of the area 56 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: as well as the genetic history of the cats. So, 57 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: for instance, were these cats all kept together on a property, 58 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: did they all descend from the same group, did they 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: all take shelter in a single building and breed within 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: the confines there, or other things like are they on 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: an island, are they on the mainland, etc. Additionally, some 62 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: cats may be more likely to carry the tailless gene because, 63 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: unfortunately they descend from cats who were purposefully bred not 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: to have a tail for asthetic reasons. There's also the 65 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: chance that they descended from the Manx cat, which is 66 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: a short tailed cat breed that arose spontaneously on the 67 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: Isle of man Again, interestingly, this mutation seemed more likely 68 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: to propagate due to the narrow genetic bottleneck on this 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: small island. Interestingly, the Japanese bobtail cat, which is another 70 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: breed of cat, does have a shortened or kinked tail, 71 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: but this is caused by a different genetic mutation, one 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: that does not seem to adversely affect the spine or 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the back legs, and so it's associated with fewer health problems. 74 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: So tails are indeed very important for cats. They help 75 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: with balance, they provide warmth when they curl up. It's 76 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: also great for sensing their environment and being able to 77 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: communicate with other cats, as well as warning off threats 78 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: by puffing up their tails to appear imposing. So the 79 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: tailis mutation isn't necessarily beneficial, but a bad mutation can 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: still propagate if there are other factors involved, such as 81 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: what I mentioned earlier, with a limited genetic pool or 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: human intervention. Sometimes a mutation might not be ideal, but 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: it's not enough to cause the organism to not reproduce, 84 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: and so that gene will continue to kind of be 85 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: in the population and sort of sprout up once in 86 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: a while, especially if it's a recessive gene and it 87 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: only really comes up when there's some inbreeding involved, so 88 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: it can remain in the population. Remember that natural selection 89 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: is not this perfect clairvoyant process. All that really matters 90 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: is if something manages to breed and pass down its genes, 91 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: and if that happens, that gene stays in the animal's 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: genetic library and it can pop up again later down 93 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: the line. So yeah, I mean it's I think it's 94 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: important to understand that when we do do selective breed 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: of cats, or if there are feral populations that are 96 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, not well looked after, there there are actual consequences. 97 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Unfortunately for these cats. There's consequences also for the wildlife. 98 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it is it's something that is 99 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: interesting to see as well as being an important reminder 100 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: of how important the health of animals are as opposed 101 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: to just sort of the aesthetics of like, oh, it's 102 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: cute because it has a little bobtail, but not always 103 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: good for their health. So on to another cat question. 104 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: Actually here it is, Hi Katie. Why do cats sleep 105 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: face down? Like? How do you breathe? My guy picture 106 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: of Festo included best example of the face down pick 107 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: I could find, though it usually just looks like his 108 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: face was too heavy and he has to set it down. 109 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: I really love the show. Highlight of the week. Have 110 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: a great day, Emily. Well, thank you, Emily. I'm so 111 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: glad you like the show, and thank you for your question. 112 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: So your cat, first of all, very cute. Thank you 113 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: for the picture. Always love them. Your cat is in 114 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: the classic sea position that cats like to relax in 115 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: to sleep in. And yes, sometimes kitties like to bury 116 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: their face in their paws or in their feet, as 117 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: a Festo seems to be doing so. There are a 118 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: few reasons that cats like to sleep in this way. 119 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: It can block out light, which helps them sleep. It 120 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: keeps themselves warm, so like they're keeping their nose warm 121 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: with their paws or their feet or their bodies. And 122 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: then also the hot air that they're expelling out of 123 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 1: their nose might actually warm their paws or their feet, 124 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: so it just creates sort of a warmth bubble. And 125 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: it also can make them feel safe and secure. They're 126 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: curled up, all their sensitive bits are covered and safe, 127 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: so they it's kind of like it's warm, it feels secure, 128 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: it feels safe, and you don't really need to worry 129 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: about your cat suffocating itself. He will come up for 130 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: air if his nose gets blocked, but it's unlikely that 131 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: he's not getting enough oxygen with his nose covered by 132 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: his feet. It might just be stinky oxygen, but it's 133 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: his own stinks, so he probably doesn't mind. But yes, 134 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: very common. I remember I had a cat that would 135 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: just fully cersantify himself and it was always a mystery 136 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: to me, like why why would you want to be 137 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: in there breathing your own sort of like butt stink 138 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: with your mouth, But hey, he liked it, so who 139 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: am I to judge? All Right, on to another question. 140 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: This one is about dogs, So dog lovers, here we go. 141 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: My dog is great at playing catch. She anticipates the 142 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: arc of objects I throw for her and catches them 143 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: every time on a classic ring shaped rotating the space habitat, 144 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: though the arc of throwne objects would curve in strange 145 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: ways due to the gravity coming from the spin of 146 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: the space station. A ball would dip on naturally, rise strangely, 147 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: or veered to the left or right, depending on the 148 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: direction throne. Would a dog still be able to learn 149 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: how to play catching that environment? Heck? Could humans figure 150 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: it out? Okay, Katie lol, thanks for the constantly great podcast. 151 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: This is from Juanito. Thank you so much and I'm 152 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: glad you're enjoying the show. Thanks for the question. This 153 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: is a great question. So unfortunately we don't have any 154 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: dogs on the International Space Station, or maybe fortunately right 155 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: like we don't necessarily the dogs might not enjoy that 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: so much. But there's no definitive answer about how dogs 157 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: behave in space, And of course we don't necessarily have 158 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the ring shaped space habitat. Yet we don't know what 159 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: that artificial gravity would feel like for humans other than 160 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: sort of what we understand from physics, and we certainly 161 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: don't know what that would be like for dogs. But 162 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: let's still try to answer this, right, So, there have 163 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: been other animals in space, and they do struggle with 164 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: understanding the change in gravity. These are of course all 165 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: in low gravity. So Japanese quails were hatched on the 166 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: Russian so I use thirty two station. Many of the 167 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: embryos didn't even develop right, and those that did struggle 168 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: to feed themselves. They couldn't figure out how to mate, 169 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: and they really did not seem to understand how to 170 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: get around in the low gravity situation. But maybe dogs 171 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: are more intelligent than quails. So researchers have found that 172 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: dogs can learn to anticipate the trajectory of objects and 173 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: will show surprise if an object does not follow the 174 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: trajectory that they expect. Given that dogs are good at 175 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: learning and adapting to new patterns, I think it is 176 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: probable that a dog might be able to learn to 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: pay play fetch in space. So in this research, they 178 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: kind of the dogs would learn that objects would have 179 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: a typical trajectory and then they would show interest when 180 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: the object did not follow that trajectory. But it was 181 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: a learning process, and so the fact that the dogs 182 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: seem to have this pattern recognition rather than just maybe 183 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: the more innate understanding of physics is really interesting. So 184 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: certainly an anecdote is that my dog seems to have 185 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: learned how to anticipate different types of throwing of treats 186 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: that I do. So when I get ready to throw 187 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: a treat in a gentle arc for her to catch 188 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: it mid air, she will wash my hand carefully, and 189 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: then she stays where she is right, so she is 190 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: ready to just catch a treat that I gently toss 191 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: to her. But when I get ready to throw a 192 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: treat across the room for her to go chase after, 193 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: she'll get up and she'll scamp herway. This is before 194 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: I throw it, right, She's just seeing my posture how 195 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to throw the treat, and she readies 196 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: herself to be in the prime position to start running 197 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: after this treat, and she'll look back at me waiting 198 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: for me to throw it, try to follow the arc 199 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: getting ready to get that treat. So, personally, I think 200 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: a dog is really good at learning and identifying patterns, 201 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: probably better at that than they are at sort of 202 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: an understanding of physics. It might take a while for 203 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: a dog to learn new patterns, and it might be 204 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: disoriented or surprised when it sort of physical reality is 205 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: not what it anticipated. Now would be really interesting, again hypothetically, 206 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: to see the difference between say, puppies raised in a 207 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: space environment with either low gravity or artificial gravity versus 208 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: dogs who were raised on Earth and then were sent 209 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: up into space. I'm not suggesting we do it right. 210 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: We've had a bad track record with sending animals into 211 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: space and dogs into space where we have not been 212 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: very kind to them. But let's imagine a situation in 213 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: which space would be you know, like people lived up 214 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: there other than the space station, where it's like a 215 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: nice life, and dogs could potent be happy and safe there. 216 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: It would really be interesting to see how they adapt 217 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: to that new environment. And I would presume that they 218 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: might actually be quite good at it, because they are 219 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: so adept at learning patterns and following also the guidance 220 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: of humans, so paying attention to our cues and using 221 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: our cues and our behavior to better understand their environment. 222 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: And so like a hypothetical dog living on a hypothetical 223 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: space habitat, I think if it was born there, it 224 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: would learn how objects behave. And if it was born 225 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: on Earth and went up, I think it might take 226 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: a little while, but then it would learn relearn how 227 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: things move and especially if there are humans there to 228 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: guide and train them, I think that they would actually 229 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: be able to adapt pretty well. That is one of 230 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: the really incredible things about dogs and their coevolution with humans. 231 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: They're great learners. They are really really good at kind 232 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: of understanding human technology. I mean, for instance, there are 233 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: dogs who will take the subway. These are like feral 234 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: dogs in Russia who've learned how to use the subway. 235 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: And my dog certainly has learned how to use the elevator. 236 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: And if you think about it from a dog's perspective, 237 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: you get in a box and maybe you feel some 238 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: motion of the box, but then you're teleported somewhere else. 239 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: Like you don't probably have an understanding of how this 240 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: elevator or how this train car works. It's like a 241 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: magical thing that you get in. It kind of feels 242 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: weird for a little bit, and then you get out 243 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: and you're in a totally different place. But they adapt 244 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: to it, they figure it out, and so you know, 245 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting. I think that animals, especially dogs, 246 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: can perhaps cope with things that seem really disorientate, disorientating, disorienting. 247 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: My dog's very good on the elevator. By the way, 248 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: I taught her how to safely write it. She's always 249 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: there with me. I never let her write it alone. 250 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: But basically, you know, I taught her elevator safety, to 251 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: go all the way into the elevator and sit down 252 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: and not wander around so that she never gets caught 253 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: in the doors. And she's very good at it, and 254 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: she's a good girl. Just in case you guys were wondering. 255 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: All right, next listener question. Hi Katie, I've been a 256 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: longtime believer in evolution, but the leaf cutter ant still 257 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: blows my mind. How did it evolve? It does not 258 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: make sense. I don't understand how you can get from 259 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: a plain old aunt to leaf cutter ant through incremental change. 260 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: It just seems like there are too many steps in 261 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: leaf cutter business that had to all pop up at 262 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: the same time. Thank you, you're the best, Will Hey Will, 263 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: thank you, and thank you for the question. Evolution can 264 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: indeed churn out some of the most weirdly complex symbiotic relationships. 265 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: Just look at any parasite and you'll be awestruck by 266 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: how complex something has evolved, Like leuco chloridium, that parasite 267 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: that turns caterpillar eyeballs into undulating egg sacks that attract birds, 268 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: and then the birds eat the caterpillars and the leuco 269 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: chloridium completes its life cycle very weird. Similarly, ant colony 270 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: behavior is incredibly complex, especially ants that practice farming, like 271 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: leafcutter ants. Leafcutter ants are found in southern US and 272 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: South and Central America, so they will cut off pieces 273 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: of specific leaves and take them back to the colony, 274 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: and you may have seen pictures of them. They'll be 275 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: sort of in these rows, each carrying a little segment 276 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: of leaf, really really interesting. They do eat the leaf sap, 277 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: but there is a greater purpose for these leaves. These 278 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: leaves are used as fodder for a type of fungus 279 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: that feeds on the decaying leaves. So the ants actively 280 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: cultivate the fungus by getting rid of pests and competing molds. 281 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: And the ants even have another symbiotic back materia on 282 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: their bodies that act as an antimicrobial, protecting themselves in 283 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: the fungus. They make sure to only use leaves that 284 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: are not toxic toxic to the fungus, and they will 285 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: actively alter which leaves they collect if they notice that 286 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: leaves are not good for the fungus. So the fungus 287 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: is so dependent on the ants it no longer produces spores. 288 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: It completely relies on the ants to reproduce and to propagate, 289 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: and the ants use the fungus as a food supply 290 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: for its larvae, who have also grown completely dependent on 291 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: eating the fungus. So these are codependent species and not 292 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: unhealthy in the way that it is in human psychology. 293 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: While this seems ridiculously specialized, right, like, how could this 294 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: ever just happen naturally, it's really no different than say 295 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: the human body, or any other animal's body, any other 296 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: complex organism's body, which is also a complex symbiotic interaction 297 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: between cells, and even within the cells, you have organelles 298 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: that are all acting in concert, like the mitochondria interacting 299 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: with the other organelles in the cell. And it's really 300 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: really kind of weird when you think about it, because 301 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: the just one individual organism's body. It is hard to 302 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,959 Speaker 1: fathom how that came about because you have all of 303 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: these interconnected systems that are all working in concert, and 304 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: so how does that happen? Right with evolution, which has 305 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: a very simple set of rules, which is just did 306 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: you pass on your genes? Did you survive or didn't you? 307 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: Did the genes get passed on? That's it. That's the 308 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: only rule that evolution follows. Nothing else really, And you know, 309 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: of course it gets more complex when you start talking 310 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: about like how these things happen, like how does one 311 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: pass on genes? What are the pressures acting on it? 312 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: But the basic rule is whether or not something passes 313 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: its genes on to the next generation. And that is it. Well, 314 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: one way I like to think about it to kind 315 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: of understand why these incredible complexities can come out of 316 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: such a simple rule is thinking about computers. Right, so 317 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: computers operate on binary you know, you have like on 318 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: off zero one, and you can think about that in 319 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: terms of evolution, like zero is it doesn't reproduce one. 320 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: It does reproduce right off on. And so even though 321 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: a computer might be based on binary, this very very 322 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: simple off on sort of you know, building block, it 323 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: is capable of incredible complexity given enough bytes and given 324 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: enough processing times. So likewise, evolution operates over millions of 325 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: years and through trillions of organisms. So you can think 326 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: of time and the number of cells and organisms as 327 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: processing time and bites of data for a computer. So 328 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: even though it starts off with this very simple off 329 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: on binary system, it becomes exponentially more complex, offering these 330 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: like seemingly magical kind of things, of being able to 331 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: create these incredibly complex organisms. Just how a computer based 332 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: on binary can now do incredible, ridiculous and sometimes stupid things. 333 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: That's exactly how evolution operates, right, it can make incredible 334 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: complex and sometimes stupid things. So if you once you 335 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: start to think about it in that way, right where 336 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: it is this it is a complexity that unfolds from 337 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: a simple binary system, then it makes more sense how 338 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: you get such complexity. Now in terms of like the 339 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: individual steps, that's always a difficulty as a say, like 340 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: an evolutionary biologist to try to work backwards and think 341 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: about all the individual steps that happen to create the 342 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: complex systems that we see. Sometimes we find evolutionary evidence 343 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: for it, right, like a related species that seems to 344 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: have half of the behavior that the other species does, 345 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and then we can kind of guess like maybe this 346 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: is how this happened, you know, And a lot of 347 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: that is storytelling, right, where if we don't have enough 348 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: evidence of something we kind of try to come up 349 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: with stories of like, well, how did this happen? But 350 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: you know, so I could say, like, well, maybe these 351 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: ants collected these leaves for food, right like ants will 352 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: often other species of ants will often collect vegetation, dead things, 353 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: et cetera, bring them back to the nest in order 354 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: for them to eat or to feed their offspring. And 355 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: maybe they did that, and then some fungus started to 356 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: eat the decaying leaves because that's what fungus does. And 357 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: then actually they started to eat the fungus because it 358 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: just happened to be growing there. And then hey, that 359 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: fungus is actually really nutritious, And so you have, over 360 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: many years something's kind of happening to happen that fine 361 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: tunes this relationship between the ants and this fungus until 362 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: you get to the point today where it is just 363 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: such a complex, interestingly interwoven relationship. So yeah, I hope 364 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: that helps. Basically, our planet's a giant computer, but that 365 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't mean that it's not real, all right, So 366 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: onto the last question. Hi, Katie, I was wondering if 367 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: you have a favorite adapted insect wing. You know, insects 368 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: generally have two pairs of wings, but some insects have 369 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: adapted one or more of these pairs for another use. 370 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: I am partial to the electra found in beetles. I 371 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: love the cool shapes and colors. Do you have a favorite? Thanks, 372 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: Bob Bonus pick of my rat, you know, judging you 373 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: silently from his box? Fort? Hi, Bob and Juno, do 374 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: you know your right to judge me from your rat? Fort? 375 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: I bet you have cool snacks and like rat comic 376 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: books inside, so I'm very jealous. All right, So, insect 377 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: wings are incredibly cool. I love that you bring up 378 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: eletra and how interesting they're. They're beautiful, come in all 379 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: sorts of different colors, different shapes, different patterns, and they 380 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: are used to protect the insects. So, and wings in 381 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: general are really interesting from insects because one of the 382 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: leading theories is that they evolved from gills that their 383 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: aquatic ancestors once used, So like, the wings are basically 384 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: overgrown gills that then they can use two flies, so 385 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: so yeah. The these wings then evolve into yet other 386 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: structures like the eletron of beetles, the hardened shell like 387 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: wings that close over the more fragile wings and protect 388 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: them and also just protects the beetle. In terms of 389 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: my favorites, I really do like fasmid wings, so fasmids 390 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: being things like stick insects. Some species have evolved wings 391 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: that basically are just used as a threat display. They 392 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: don't they're tiny. They're actually kind of humorously tiny compared 393 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: to the rest of the insect, but it is used 394 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: as a threat display, like a little set of fans 395 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: that are usually a bright color like bright pink or 396 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: bright red, and so it's just a flash of this 397 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: red to scare off predators. An example would be the 398 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: bud wing stick insects. So I don't know, that's really cool. 399 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: I love it. I just also love the idea of 400 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: this insect like fanning open a fan and trying to 401 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: scare something off, like I'm done with you, go away. 402 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: Very very sassy and very cool. I also like wings 403 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: that have been adapted as noise makers, such as in 404 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: species of crickets. There are some species of crickets that 405 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: can fly, but a lot of them are flightless, and 406 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: they use their to produce chirps, like by stridulating and 407 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: rubbing them against each other, so that is very cool. 408 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: Insect wings are really awesome and flight is not the 409 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: only awesome thing about them. And you know, it's interesting 410 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: because you can kind of see like this doesn't just 411 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: happen in insects and birds. You see wings being adapted 412 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: for other purposes than flight. Obviously, flightless birds can use 413 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: their wings for things like swimming like in penguins, ostriches, rays, 414 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: and EMUs will use their wings and things like heat 415 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: control or in mating displays. And then also there's the 416 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: club wing Mannikin that uses its wings for making sound, 417 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: similar to say a cricket. So their wings have actually 418 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: developed to rub against each other to vibrate and create 419 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: this really interesting sound. It's one I think it is 420 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: the only bird that is known to use stridulation is sound. 421 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: And as a consequence, they are actually worse at flying. 422 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: They're poor flyers. They can still fly, but they're pretty 423 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: bad at it. Mostly they use their wings for communication 424 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: through this sound that they make just like a cricket. 425 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: Very very cool. So, guys, thank you so much for 426 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: your questions. If you have a question that I did 427 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: not answer on this episode and you want me to, 428 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: you can write to me at Creature feature Pod at 429 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's Creature featurepod at gmail dot com. 430 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: Send me your questions, your pictures of rat forts, animals, pets. 431 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: I really appreciate all of that. Thank you guys so 432 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: much for listening. We will resume the Mystery Animal sound 433 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: game next week. It's happening. Don't you worry. It's happening. 434 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: And thanks to this space coassics for They're a super 435 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: awesome song. Ex Alumina Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. 436 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts it's like the one you just heard, 437 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or Hi Guess what 438 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you next Wednesday.