WEBVTT - Rio Tinto Turns to Carbfix to Bury CO2 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.239 Can you tell me about it again? So this is 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.840 basically where it all started. This is where car fixed 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.319 was developed. This was the initial pilot injection. Well, now 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.880 we're using it to inject seal two coming from climb Works, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.720 this direct air capture plant. So essentially this is an 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:25.639 oversized soda stream machine making carbonated water awesome. But the 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.960 important thing here is this kind of system it can 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.160 work in other industries as well, not only geothermal power. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.280 It can work in you know, cement manufacturing, or or 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.760 production of steel, or coal fire power plants. Wherever you 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.480 have like a very highly concentrated source of CEO two, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.400 you can actually capture it in water and injected if 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.120 you're lucky enough to be sitting on top of a 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.440 favorable bedrock like we are. Okay, here I am outside 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:57.160 the hellish d Geo thermal plant in Iceland, just outside recC. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.320 It's dark, it's cold. What you just heard it was 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.639 the sound of our guest today, Kari Helgason, the head 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.400 of research and innovation for carb Fix, who tell us 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.680 about their CEO two storage technology where they'll take CEO 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:14.360 two from any source and injected underground where it mineralizes 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.160 or turns to rock under the subsurface in Iceland here 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:22.560 fascinating topic. Really enjoyed our conversation. Stay with us as 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.880 always beat up to stop, provide investment of strategy advice. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.400 You can hear the full disclaimer at the end of 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.200 the show. Mark Taylor from a rock field in Iceland 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.640 and you're listening to switch on to Being f podcast. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.000 Hey Coudy, so thank you so much for joining us. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.120 This is really awesome. We're standing here at the injection 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.560 site for the first car fixed project that started back 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.120 in two thousand and six. How about we just start 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.080 with the project itself. Can you tell us a bit 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.200 about carb fix and where it kind of came from. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.880 It originally came from a scientist in the United States 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.080 called Wally Broker. He came here and he was one 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.720 of the guys who sort of raised awareness about climate 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.760 change being a threat, like back in the seventies. He 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:15.800 came here to Iceland talked to icelandic scientists to actually 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:21.720 see whether this natural weathering of producing minerals in bus 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.120 salts to curb climate change would be an actual, you know, viable. 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.880 It started in two thousand and six the Carpet Project 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:34.480 as an academic and industry collaboration. So really just as 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.560 an idea that stemmed into a science project. Really people 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.560 didn't know whether this would work or you know, if 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.720 we did it, how fast it would work, because you know, naturally, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.480 and this is what happens naturally, is that you know, 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.880 nature keeps a lot of carbon in rocks, CEO tourists, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.200 salt in rainwater, it seeps through the bedrock and it 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.639 turns into minerals on a very long time scales. So 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.280 the question is would we be able to speed this 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.240 up to actually make this relevant to carbon capture and 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:10.040 sequestration technology. That's where it started doing the academic work, modeling, simulations, etcetera. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.400 When finally we put it to the test and injected 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.560 CEO two into the Icelandic basaltic bedrock, we found out 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.799 that this was actually happening quite fast, and we are 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.720 mineralizing all the CEO two that we injected in the 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.560 matter of under two years. And this was quite a 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.239 bit faster than people had expected. And this is sort 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.840 of how it all got started, and then it only 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.600 took a few more years for it to be implemented 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.440 in the power plant we're actually sitting in right now. 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.760 This is a geothermal power plant, which is green energy, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.000 but it's still amids CEO two. It accumulates right here 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.000 to around forty tho tons of CEO two per year, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.360 and we are currently taking of that CEO two using 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.320 the carfix technology and injecting it, and we'll be scaling 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.480 that up in the next year to make this a 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.000 you know, full scale carbon capture and storage decombronized plant. 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.040 Let's go back though, just for a second. Was there 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.720 was there an aha moment? Did you know before you 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.840 started injecting c OR two under the underground here in 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.640 the lab did you see that it was going to 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.320 mineralize or did you know what was going to happen 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.440 before you did it? Well, back then, I wasn't working 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.000 for the company, so I put out I can, but 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.800 I can I can speak to the p for for 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.000 the people that were here. For example, at at the 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.120 CEO of the Carpicks company, she hadn't run models that 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:35.280 actually indicated that this would be quite fast. People didn't 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.200 necessarily believe the models. And I don't think we should 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.360 always believe models, for sure, they're just to inform. But 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.280 her models we are actually quite a bit accurate. When 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.840 you compared it to the experimental data that you know, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:52.159 after the pilot injections. I think the aha moment or 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.400 the real breakthrough was that, you know, when we actually 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.840 demonstrated and verified the mineral storage of CEO two being 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:07.040 this efficient. So we had actually succeeded in accelerating nature's 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.640 way of storing carbon. That's really cool. So how did 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.760 the project itself materialize? You started off with the CEO 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:19.320 two from the geothermal plant and then came along the 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.960 direct air capture idea from from climb Works or how 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.839 did that whole arrangement happen. We started with the power 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.960 plant or decombronizing the power plant. That was what was 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:34.520 implemented on industrial scale in twenty fourteen. Then we, you know, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.560 were introduced to these guys at climb Works, which is 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.799 a Swiss company that has this direct air captured technology 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.800 and they were, you know, looking for a place to 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.440 test their pilot unit. They had been developing this technology 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.120 in Switzerland and we in I think it was in 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.640 twenty seventeen when they actually shipped their pilot unit here 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.720 and so they exposed Moosted to the harsh conditions in Iceland, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.080 the weather, the corrosion, the the you know, the hydrogen 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.720 sulfide and all the geothermal gases that surround us and 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.920 and put it, you know, through a stress test for 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.960 several years. And they actually just scaled up this year 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.599 commissioning the first commercial direct air capture and storage plant. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.880 So so their pilot had been running for at least 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.719 three years before they decided to scale up. But now 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.920 this has become the first with the world's first commercial 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.000 direct air capture and storage chain. So we take the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.800 seal two out of the atmosphere and we injected into 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.720 the bedrock where it turns into stone. Okay, so I 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.080 don't want to spend too much time on direct air capture, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.400 but to me, like I've been wanting somebody to tell 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.880 me I'm wrong about this, that I think direct air 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.839 capture is really interesting because two things. One is location, right, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.120 because in carbon capture and storage often you don't have 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.960 the point source of C two emissions near the storage 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.320 location or the sink for the U two, So that's 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.680 a big problem. The second issue is verification, right. It's 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.200 a it's the value of a ton of C O 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.280 two stored or offset, and so there's going to come 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.680 a point when well, we can't verify all the grass 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.000 growing in the tundra to to offset the missions through 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.480 forestry or something like that, or you know, forester burning 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.080 for various parts of the world, and so you're gonna 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.160 need to to be able to verify a ton of 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.360 c U two stored. So I think, you know, direct 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.000 air capture plus what car fix is doing is really cool. 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.240 So am I crazy? No, You're You're absolutely right in 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.720 that everything is measurable to the graham of c O two, 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.119 and it's very traceable, and it's very transparent, and you 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.240 you know, you know exactly what is happening, what is 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.720 being captured, what is going into the ground, and you're 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:51.120 doing this in real time. With forestry, there are big uncertainties. 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.760 It takes a long time for the carbon to be sequestered, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.600 and you need a lot of land space. But you know, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.480 don't get me wrong. I mean, we do need these 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.200 natural solutions as well. We do need to plant a 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.920 lot of trees, and we also need these technological solutions. 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.600 We need direct air capture technologies to be at the 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.000 gigaton scale by mid century. I mean that is, if 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.480 we are to meet our climate goals. That is what 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.640 we need to do, so we need to do both 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.280 hand in hand. At the same time, we also have 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.440 to be comfortable with some uncertainty. You know, if we 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.800 know that we are sequestering Sale two, we don't know 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.439 to the Graham, but we just have to do it nevertheless. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.200 But this is also what all this research is about, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.600 you know, just getting more knowledge and understanding of our 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.320 natural system in order for us to know better what 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.640 we need to do and to prioritize what solutions we 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.560 should fund and which once we should not. So just 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.000 to make sure we got it. We talked about it 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.000 briefly at the site, but let's just make sure we 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.480 got it. Can you explain really how the technology works. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.200 You mentioned that you take the CEO two and you 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.880 combine it with water, and then you combine it with 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.959 some other chemicals I believe, and injected in the ground 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.760 or no, no, we just use seal two in water. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.120 There you go. So it's just like nature, but accelerating it. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.760 We dissolve the seal two in water we injected into 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:24.000 the bedrock, and when it enters the formation, the seal 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.720 two is completely dissolved. So it's like you know, a 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.920 bottle of soda. Right, you don't see any bubbles until 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.640 you open it. And deep pressure as it well underground, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.120 there is pressure and it keeps the CEO two in solution, 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.760 so it doesn't want to leak up, It doesn't want 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.080 to go anywhere, and it actually has the tendency to 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.400 sink rather than to rise because the fluid is denser 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.359 than the surrounding water. So we kill the buoyancy that way. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.360 And what happens when the acidic fluid, because this is 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.160 essentially carbonic acid, just like you know sparkling water, what 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.199 happens is that it starts attacking the rock and dissolving 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.760 the rock because it's acidic, and the icelandic bad drop 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.000 or basalts in particular, are very rich in metals such 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.920 as calcium, magnesium, and iron, and it releases these metals 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.160 into the fluid and then the chemistry starts happening, that 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.679 the mineral starts forming, and we start forming magnesium carbonates, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.880 calcium carbonates, and iron carbonates. So this is what we 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.840 mean when we say we turn CEO two into stone, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.440 we are turning them into solid carbonate minerals. And once 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:34.240 we have verified that these minerals do form then we 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.120 can simply walk away and we don't need to monitor 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.600 anything else in the reservoir. That's really cool. Years ago, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.160 I was a carbon capture analyst, and the big concern 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.679 everybody had was that once you injected the CEO two, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.040 you had to monitor it for a hundred years to 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:50.760 make sure that the CEO two stayed under ground. It 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:52.839 seems like you don't have that issue. We do not 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.240 have that issue because we kill the buoyancy as a 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.720 set by dissolving in the water, and then when it's solid, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.240 we don't have to do anything, So you just have 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.600 to verify that it happens. But we are also in 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.240 a different position as the conventional c s c S 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.160 or or corporon capture and storage projects in which they 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.720 are injecting actually supercritical seal too very very deep into 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:21.359 depleted oil or gas reservoirs. These are typically not located, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.520 these geologies are typically not located where basalts and reactive 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.600 rocks like we are using are located. So actually we 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.280 think of it as car fix is actually just unlocking 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.240 a lot of areas in the world where carbon capture 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.000 storage hasn't even been considered. We've had instances where we're 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.520 talking to emitters and they just simply don't know that 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.480 they're sitting on top of a very favorable bedrock for 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.520 you know, storing CEO two. So we're just trying to 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.520 get the word out there, and we have like an 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.079 mineral storage atlas on our website where people can actually 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.280 just go and and look where are these favorable regions. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.080 We'll give us a rundown likewise, so we know Iceland 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.680 you mentioned all the world's emissions could be or in Iceland, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.800 but where else for example India, Japan, West Coast, United States, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.280 and a lot of the sea floor as well that's 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.960 mostly bussolved bus salts and and these reactive rock formations 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.160 are found in every continent. They cover around five percent 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.200 of all the landmass on Earth, so it's the most 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.960 common rock type on Earth, and it's found in many, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.640 many countries. The list goes on. But the important thing 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:28.079 is also it's not only that it's widespread, it's also 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:33.680 that this also works in industries outside the geothermal and 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.960 direct air capture. So we could hook up to cement manufacturing, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.880 steel manufacturing, and even fossil fuel fire power plants. So 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.559 wherever you have concentrated stream of CEO two. You can 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.760 capture it dissolving in water and inject for storage. Is 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.920 the idea for car picked as a company, not a 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.160 science project as it was back in you know six. 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:58.160 Is it to go to emitters in India, Japan, South Africa, Ethiopia, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.320 wherever and take their CEO two and inject it right 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.800 under their feet, or is it something else? This is 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.160 always the most economical way to go. I think it's 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.200 important that we have demonstrated it here that you know, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.480 we're we're running this whole CCS chain at about twenty 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.640 five dollars per ton, and that is actually very economical. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.320 It's way lower than the current e t S emission 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.640 allowance is selling for and it's lower than the tax 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.800 credit in the US. That's right. But I will give 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.880 you these are somewhat idealized conditions where we are. But 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.960 this is always the most economical way to go, and 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.600 it lowers the entry barrier into CCS because really CCS 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.200 up till now has only been done by governments and 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.360 big oil and gas. But now you can actually you know, 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.640 go to a medium sized enterprise which is you know, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.840 producing cement for example, and implement this technology there. So 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.360 that's one pathway. Another pathway is direct air capture like 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.440 we're demonstrating here, and for that you only need the 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.480 bedrock and the energy that it demands. And the third, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.800 and I think this will be the most important halfway 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.880 for CCS, is you know, establishing these storage hubs or 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:10.319 industrial clusters where you have a lot of injection capacity 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.440 and where you can actually ship the CEO two either 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.720 by ship or pipeline, so that you know you you 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:21.080 have these concentrated clusters where either we have to build 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.920 up transport network to transport the CEO too to the 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.040 favorable storage sides, or we simply have to build the 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.160 industries next to these storage sides. I mean, I think 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.400 the future will be a combination of both. For example, 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.160 here in Iceland we are starting to demonstrate this storage 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.560 hub concept by a project called the Cota Terminal and 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.800 we are planning to ship in liquidized CEO two on 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:52.560 tankers from northern Europe for operation in so quite soon. Yeah, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.920 it's relatively soon. We have a lot to do still, 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.960 um but I think once we have demonstrated the mineral 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.280 storage hub concept here in Iceland, then it will be 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.920 ready for applications in strategic locations around the world where 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.600 they have actually much more emissions than we do here 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.720 in Iceland. In Iceland, we really, you know, we're lacking 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.040 the Seal two. We have the rocks, we have the water, 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.240 but we don't have the Seal two, right, right. But 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.520 but this is where really where you know, carbon capturing 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.040 stories can reach these climate relevant scales by building up 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.560 these hubs. And we're by no means the only ones 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.640 doing it. In Europe. There is you know, Project Longship 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.560 in in Norway. There are other CCS projects, and the 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.200 European Union is dead serious when they're saying that we 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:44.120 are building up these carbon transport networks and we simply 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.520 are going to be one note in this network. We 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.920 need to transform our infrastructure. Right in Iceland, we transformed 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.600 the infrastructure in relation to geothermal like in the district teaching. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.720 We used to be an oil country. So now we 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:03.480 need yet another transformation of infrastructure to actually transport CEO too. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:09.800 We need oil in reverse. But and people always tell 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.520 me when I tell them about this code terminal project 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.440 in which we are you know, shipping Seal two from Europe, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.320 it sounds sci fi, right, capturing Seal two, liquidizing it, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.040 putting on our ships, shipping it all the way to 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.600 Iceland for you know, this economic permanent storage. But you 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.440 know how sci FI is the oil and gas infrastructure. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.360 If you think about it, I mean, it's it's it's 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.920 crazy infrastructure. You know, you're pumping up so much fossil 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.440 fuels from deep underground. You know, you're and you're you know, 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.840 putting in our tank ships, and you're shipping it all 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.880 its world on all these petrol stations inso different materials. Exactly, 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.640 it is crazy infrastructure, and you're you know, you're you're 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.360 shipping it like, you know, halfway across the world, and 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.680 now we are shipping CEO two like from northern Europe 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.240 to Iceland. I mean, that's that's nothing. I mean, it's 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.440 the point I'm trying to make is like it was 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.000 crazy infrastructure that got us into this mess in the 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.000 first place, and we need big solutions to get us 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:13.200 out of this mess. So I realized the Code of 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.520 Terminal has to be your big priority right now. But 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:21.119 is there another country besides Iceland that you're looking for 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.000 another demonstration or scale up project for another cluster hub? 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.159 People tell us what the cold determinal is, like, you know, 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.879 can you get any bigger? So we're already you know, 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.640 looking at the code de terminal two point though perhaps 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.679 in Iceland. I tell you what sounds sci fi to 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.359 me is is when you said when we were at 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.040 the site that that Iceland, you know it's an island, 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.399 right that you said it could house all of the 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.800 CEO two you know, created by mankind. Like that number 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.640 sounds just unfathomable to me, but I get it. If 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.600 Iceland can take it, then maybe that's the industry. Maybe 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:55.800 the code of terminal two point oh three point oh 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.159 is the answer. Maybe just ship it all here and 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.320 becomes the the SINC for the world. It's gonna depend 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.520 a lot on how economic we can make the transport 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.639 link in the CCS chain. So I mean Iceland is 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:12.680 you know, admittedly far away, but the economics work because 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.399 the storage is so cheap. We are doing it on 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.600 shore as opposed to offshore, where things are usually ten 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.040 times more expensive, and we are using low cost, low 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.879 risk approach to you know, expanding. We're using multiple shallow 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.040 injection wells instead of like one ginormous deep injection well, 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.240 and they're not special wells are they You're not looking 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.600 for a reservoir or anything, I assume, I mean you're 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.879 looking for basalt. But basalt, I mean, you know, not 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.000 all basalt is equal. I mean, I mean we we 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.840 prefer to be in like young, fresh basalts, you know, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.000 just to make things easier. And and you know, because 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.479 we have demonstrated here there are older and more altered 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.440 basalts that can sequest their carbon for sure. But when 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.600 we're talking about these big scale projects that you know 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.479 haven't been demonstrated before, we will start out in our 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.040 comfort zone for sure. Um, But for the cubs in 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.360 the other places in the world, you know, that remains 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.080 to be seen where where we can actually where we 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.640 should actually place them. And it depends on many other 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:19.960 things than geology. It's also politics, permitting, financing, interests, et cetera. 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.000 That goes into the equation here. Well, let's go to 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.280 that we talked about the source or the sink under 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.879 my feet. You just announced yesterday October and we're recording 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.639 this that you're going to start storing CEO two from there. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.159 Was it I sell project, I sell aluminum plant in 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:40.400 Iceland here? Yeah, So the real tinto aluminum smelters in Iceland. 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.480 It's co located with the Cotal terminal. Okay, so they're 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:49.199 actually sitting in the same location, and and they're actually 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.000 sitting on the freshest and nicest basoft for carbon storage 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.399 that you know you can find in Iceland with a 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.240 lot of fresh water. So so there's everything there. Oh wow, okay, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.800 I think what you know Real Tinto has just realized 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.960 is that they are going to have an operating injection 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:10.280 site in right at their doorstep, So it makes sense 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.600 to develop carbon capture and storage here. Now, carbon capture 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.840 and storage in the aluminum sector is not easy. The 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:20.240 CEO two, you know, stream coming from from an aluminum 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:24.959 production facility is very diluted, low concentration, very low concentration 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.919 of CU two. But they are working on modifying their 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.680 processes getting the concentration up so that they will have 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.520 a capturable source of CEO two by five. Do you 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.399 deal with that part or do you just take the 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.560 CEO two when it's ready for storage. We will, you know, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.320 facilitate in in carbon capture as as much as we can. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:51.920 Hearing minds with minds. Yeah, we are experts in carbon storage, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.960 but but we have our complete carbon capture and storage 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.400 chain here. So at some point their CEO two concentration 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.119 will be good enough for us to take over. Maybe 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.760 we'll have to have an extra module there in between, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:12.000 another technology that you know, opposite concentrations or purifies it 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.040 or something like that. But this is you know, there 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.680 are several options on the table right now. Okay, let's say, well, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.080 I mean, congratulations on that. It's really cool and that 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.560 you say that's going to go on in likely? Is 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.720 that right? That's what we're aiming for, and just for 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.160 really listening. That's part of Rio Tinto's seven point five 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.119 billion dollar announcement they made last week to reduce Scope 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.520 one and two emissions by sixteen point three million tons 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.959 per year by so clearly they had this in mindment 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.359 with there they made that announcement. That's an oddly specific number, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.399 sixteen point three million tons per year. Do you know 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.239 what proportion or how much they plan to injector how 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.680 much this smelter emits. Well, this smelter emits a little 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.280 over three hundred thousand tons per year, Okay, so it's 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.080 it's a small portion of the sixteen point three million. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.360 You've got the point three, that's right. Yeah, yeah, so 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.800 when when we're done, it's will be sixteen well hopefully more. Yeah, 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:05.520 I mean, we'll we'll see how far we can go. 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.760 I mean usually in most industries, these are demonstrated technologies. 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.240 You can just go and choose a company, choose a 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.760 service provider, and you can just start doing it with 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.200 an a woman smelter like I you know mentioned there 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.000 is R and D involved. So we don't know exactly 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.360 if they will be ready in five when we will 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.640 start operating the Coulta terminal, but at least we will 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.280 be there and the storage side will be operational, and 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.359 we already one day already. Okay, I was going to 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:33.760 use a you know, hypothetical company as an example, but 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.159 I'm going to use Rio Tinto. Ivan Vella, the CEO 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.919 in a story you know, read from Bloomberg about this 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.399 said quote, beyond this this project, we will look for 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.480 opportunities to apply card fixes technology for decorganization across Rio 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.679