1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. I'm Paul swing you 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma Waits. Each day 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Let's dive deeper into those headlines. 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: When we get the rough transcript of the president's call 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: with the Ukraine. We welcome Alex Wayne, Bloomberg News based 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Alex, thanks so much for joining us. 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: Just give us your kind of initial response to kind 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: of what we're seeing here across the tape. Well, this uh, 13 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: this transcript uh really supports the allegations that have been 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: made that the President pressured Ukraine to investigate a political rival, 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. The President brought up Biden this phone call, 16 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: mentioned his name repeatedly, and asked to uk for the 17 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: new Ukrainian president to reopen a an investigation that had 18 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: gone dormant um back in or so uh, involving a 19 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: company tied to Joe Biden's son hunter Biden. So, is 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: there any sense, Alex that there was a threat of 21 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: withholding aid to Ukraine unless these this investigation did proceed. 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: That there's no explicit threat like that in documented in 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: this phone call. But but let's back up just a 24 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: step before this call. According to people familiar with the matter, 25 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: the President froze that that military age Ukraine had happened 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: at least a week before the call. Uh now now 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: that the President of Ukraine gives no indication in the 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: call that he's aware the age has been frozen. At 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: one point he early in the call, he thanks President 30 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Trump for US support for Ukraine and says he's uh, 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: he's almost ready to buy more Javelin anti tank missile 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: systems from the United States. The President responds by saying, 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: I would like you to do us a favor, though, 34 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: because our country has been through a lot in Ukraine 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: knows a lot about it, and he then asks Zelensky 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: to locate this d N the server that was hacked 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: during campaign. We're not sure what the President was getting 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: at there, um, but that then leads into a conversation 39 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: about other investigations Ukraine could conduct on the President's behalfs 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: including uh, including the Joe Biden probe. Yeah. Right now 41 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: we're looking at SMP right now, the SMP trading lower, 42 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: sharply lower on the heels of this transcript release. I'm 43 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: just wondering, based on what we've heard, based on the law, 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: is what's in the transcript enough to give further ammunition 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: to the Democrats and their impeachment push, or is this 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: sort of edifying for President Trump that he didn't necessarily verbatim, 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: threatened to withhold aid in return for further investigation. So, so, 48 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: impeachment is more of a political process than a legal process. 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: The Constitution says the president can impeach for high crimes 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: and misdemeanors, but leaves it to Congress to decide what 51 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: those are. Uh. So, I don't I don't know if 52 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: the President violated a law. Here. We y're told that 53 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice conducted an investigation um into whether 54 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the President violated campaign finance law by soliciting the President 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: of Ukraine's help investigating Joe Biden, and do o J 56 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: determined that he didn't. Uh. But we're also told that 57 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: at the time d o J conducted this investigation, they 58 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: were not aware that the president had frozen military aid 59 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: to Ukraine head of a call. UM, So I you know, 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: I would say this is squarely within the realm of 61 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: things that Congress would scrutinize. Uh. One of the Commerce's 62 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: highest responsibilities is to conduct over stud of the executive branch. 63 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: And UH. I think if any president had having had 64 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: behaved like this in a phone call with a foreign leader, UM, 65 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: it would very well rise the level of investigation by Congress. 66 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: So is it the sense here? You know? The next steps? 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: I guess it's probably the question we have the president. 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I believe it's going to have a press Commerce today 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: at four pm Eastern. UH. Any expectations here about the 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: tax team might take, well, he's been he's been very 71 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: defensive so far about his call with Lensky. He's called 72 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: it a perfect call. So he did nothing wrong. I 73 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: don't know why he calls it a perfect call given 74 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: what is right here on on the page that I'm 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: looking at, showing that he he asked a foreign leader 76 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: to investigate a political arrival. That's that's not a normal 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: thing for a president to ask of a of a 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: foreign a foreign leader. Actually, Alex, that's what I wanted 79 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: to ask you, I mean, is there a president for this? 80 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: I've never heard of one. I've I've never heard of 81 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: something like this happening before. I'm not aware of a 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: previous president, at least in modern US history, Uh, asking 83 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: a foreign leader to get involved in a U S election. 84 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: So one of the issues that that Tim O'Brien Bloomberg 85 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: opinion columnists put in a column yesterday was the big 86 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: issue is to focus on the fact that don't focus 87 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: necessarily on whether there was a quid pro quo asked 88 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: by President Trump, focused more on the fact that the 89 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: call was made to ask a foreign government to interfere 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: in an election, and that in and of itself, is 91 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: uh an impeachable or could could support an impeachment process. 92 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: Is that the thinking within Washington? Or does the quid 93 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: pro quel really need to be proven? Uh? No, I 94 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: think I think Democrats definitely feel like there doesn't have 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: to be a quid per quoil, that that's simply inviting 96 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: or or asking a foreign leader to to get involved 97 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: in in an election. Um is enough on its face, 98 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: but but let's also let's also kind of you know, 99 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: you could almost you can almost say that the quid 100 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: per quota is already established. The Ukraine is dependent on 101 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: American military aid. If the President of the United States 102 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: calls up the president of Ukraine and asked him to 103 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: do something, there is a there is even if he 104 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make the threat explicit, there is an implication that 105 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: US aid maybe at risk if the Ukrainian president doesn't 106 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: agree to do whatever the American President is asking me 107 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: to do. So, so the quid pro quo is there. 108 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: It's implied even without the President explicitly threatening the Ukrainian president. So, Alex, 109 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: what's the next step here? Well, the next step is 110 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: that there's there's going to be a lot of work 111 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: on on the on in the House of Representatives by 112 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: multiple committees um to to apparently as symbol a case 113 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: for impeachment of of the president. Any support by Republicans 114 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: there is none so far, but uh, you know, at 115 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: least at least one Republican, Mitt Romney of of Utah 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: Senter Mitt Romney of Utah has has raised some concerns 117 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: about what happened in this phone call with the President 118 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: of Ukraine UH and has said he would reserve judgment 119 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: on on any consequences until after the facts had were gathered, 120 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: and so we're we're gathering those facts now. We we 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: think that by the end of the week will also 122 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: have uh this whistleblower complaint. Uh. An intelligence community whistle 123 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: whistle blower made a complaint to the Inspector General for 124 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: the Intelligence community based on in part this call between 125 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: Trump and the press of Ukraine as well as other events. 126 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: UH and uh and and that complaint has been demanded 127 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: by by Democrats in Congress. Alex Wayne, thank you so much, 128 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: alex Wayne. White House reporter based in Washington, d C. 129 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: Certainly there is a lot of interest in President Trump's 130 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: phone call with Ukraine, at the transcript of which was released. 131 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: Joining us now to discuss Justin sink Bloomberg News, White 132 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: House reporter, Justin. Have have we gotten any responses yet 133 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: from either the White House Republicans or Democrats? Uh, in 134 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: the wake of the release of this transcript. Yeah. So, 135 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: I think obviously a lot of Democratic lawmakers are expressed 136 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: and outrage over what they see is the President acting 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: inappropriately by asking Ukraine to participate in this investigation of 138 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. The President his allies, though, have kind of 139 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: insisted throughout this process that the President didn't do anything wrong. 140 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: They say, uh, that it's normal operating procedure or within 141 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: the bounds of acceptability for the president to um push 142 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: for an investigation when there's possible wrongdoing. And they make 143 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: the argument that the five page transcript shows that the 144 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: President didn't necessarily link his freezing of foreign aid or 145 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: even foreign aide generally with the buying investigation, although he 146 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: does discuss both topics on the on the call and 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: Justin's isn't you know, isn't simply the fact that the 148 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: president asked the President Trump asked the leader of a 149 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: foreign nation to potentially interfere in a U S election. 150 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: Isn't that in and of itself? Uh problematic and maybe 151 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: even enough to support impeachment. I mean, that's certainly the 152 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: argument that the critics of the president are making today 153 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: and that uh, you know, Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, have 154 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: set our grounds for impeachment. Now, the President says and 155 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: has defended himself by arguing that there was possible misconduct 156 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: by by Joe Biden that hasn't been sort of substantiated. 157 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: All of our reporting indicates that, uh, Joe Biden made 158 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: the call to to get rid of a prosecutor in Ukraine. Uh, 159 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: not based on his son's financial interests, but based on 160 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: the policy within the Obama administration. But but the White 161 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: House is going to make the argument that that this 162 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: was just sort of, uh an attempt by this White 163 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: House to to address possible corruption. Have we already think 164 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: from Republican leaders. Republican leaders so far have have sort 165 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: of downplayed the police this and are are making the 166 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: argument that Democrats are sort of singularly focused on impeaching 167 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: the president. It's it's a very similar um approach to 168 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: what we heard in the aftermath of the Mala report 169 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: coming out, where again the President engaged in some conduct 170 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: that um was certainly outside the sort of norms that 171 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: we we expect, but didn't rise the level of illegality. 172 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: And so they're making the areament that Democrats are uh 173 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: pushing too hard for this impeachment issue. So justin many 174 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: observers have suggested that the more damning piece of evidence 175 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: maybe the whistleblowers report per se, is there sense of 176 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: when if that will be released and will be releasing 177 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: its entirety, Yeah, so we're not entirely sure when the 178 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: public will get a chance to look at or if 179 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: the politic will get a chance to look at this 180 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: whistle blower report. But there is an expectation that the Congress, 181 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: which is holding hearings tomorrow on this issue, will will 182 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: at least in a classified setting, be able to review 183 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: uh some if not all, of the whistle blower report. 184 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: So we we may get additional details that can help 185 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: give a bigger picture of what the Trump White House 186 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: was up to and what the president was up to 187 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: beyond this this specific called transcript as soon as tomorrow. 188 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: Just and is there any precedent that we can look 189 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: to in terms of how the president's phone call went 190 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: or didn't go according to the way it should have 191 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, in other words, uh, does the law or 192 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: precedent offer any guidance for us. So another interesting kind 193 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: of piece of information that came out today is that 194 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: the Justice Department, because of this whistleblower um flagging concern 195 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: over the call, did do a legal review of it 196 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: to see if if President Trump had violated campaign finance law, 197 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: as as he encouraged them to look into into Joe Biden. 198 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: The Justice Department ultimately concluded that there was not um 199 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: that the president didn't break the law. That they didn't 200 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: see anything necessarily improper, but um senior administration who official 201 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: told us that that that that did not include a 202 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: consideration of the freezing of Youkran's aid. And so I 203 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: think a lot of critics of the White House are 204 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: also going to pot not that the Justice foreman is, 205 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: of course um run by Attorney General Barr, who has 206 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: mentioned in this transcript and who is a close political 207 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: ally of the president. Justin what's the sense of next 208 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: steps here? Yeah, So I think we're looking at two 209 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: big kind of events on the very short term horizon. 210 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: One is the President is actually meeting with the Ukrainian 211 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: president later this afternoon, so I'm sure he's going to 212 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: feel questions and talk about this then, and especially at 213 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: a press conference schedule for four pm at the end 214 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: of the United Nations later this afternoon. So we're going 215 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: to hear a lot from the President later today as 216 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: he tries to explain his actions. And then, of course 217 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: we've got these congressional hearings going forward on the next 218 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: couple of days, where we're more information, particularly from the 219 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: mouth of the whistleblower, may might start to come out. 220 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: Justin if we look at the market response. Initially, there 221 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: was a leg lower in the SMP and NASDAC that 222 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: has bounced back since. So basically, people in the market 223 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: seem to be suggesting this is not that big of 224 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: a deal, or at least it doesn't move the needle 225 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: materially more toward impeachment. Does that cohere with what people 226 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: who you speak with seem to think. Yeah, I mean, 227 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: I think that there's obviously a lot of political attention 228 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: on this entire controversy, but the basic math hasn't changed 229 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: here in Washington, which is the Republicans continue to control, uh, 230 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: the United States Senate, and that there's nowhere near the 231 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: votes that you would need to actually remove Donald Trump 232 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: from office. So while Democrats might want to sort of 233 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: send a political message that they find this behavior to 234 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: be unacceptable, uh, something that would actually remove the president 235 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: from office and thereby potentially change policy and impact markets 236 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: is not something that that seems likely at this point, 237 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: Justine think thanks so much for joining us. Justin sink 238 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: as a Bloomberg News White House reporter giving us the 239 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: latest reporting on the call summary that was made public 240 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: between the of the call between President Trump and the 241 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: President of the Ukraine. We are broadcasting Alive from the 242 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Global Business Forum here in New York City at 243 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: the Plaza Hotel, hob nobbing with the world's leaders, frankly 244 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: as well as the leaders of the major corporations as 245 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: well as the largest asset management and managers in the world. 246 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: Among them Dylan Play a chief executive officer of Temasek International, 247 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: which manages two thirty five billion dollars, and we actually 248 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to sit down and speak with him. 249 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. We want to start with the 250 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: theme of the Global Business Forum, which is sustainability. And 251 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how much you have shifted your investments with 252 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: E s G sorts of parameters to sustainability in mind. 253 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: So this is a journey that we've started. We started 254 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: about three years ago and now we're looking at it 255 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: in a very listic manner. There are three parts to it. 256 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: I would say first is, uh, we're put in place 257 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: at E s G framework for each of the investments 258 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: that we're looking at right now from the time that 259 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: we it first come to the pipeline to evaluation to 260 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: eventual execution. And it's very clear in our minds. Unless 261 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: it passes in the e s G framework. Where either 262 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: we've identified problems that can be resolved or the company 263 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: is largely in line with the framework, we won't proceed 264 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: with investment. Now we have six hundred investments intomastic, so 265 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: we're now extending the framework into our existing investments so 266 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: that we see improvement and whatever we can do with 267 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: respect to e s G factors. The third element has 268 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: to do with what we're trying to do for sustainable 269 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: investments that include sustainable living for example, alternative proteins, anything 270 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: to do with water efficiency, to look at resource efficiency. 271 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: The second is to consider the issue of the carbonization. 272 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: How we can go about reducing the cuboon footprints of 273 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: the companies that we control, reduce our own cuboon footprint, 274 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: trying to see how we can influence companies in which 275 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: we are minority shareholdings to think about reducing their carbon footprint. 276 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: Would review towards seeing how our corvered footprint for the 277 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: entire portfolio can be halved by twenty And the final 278 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: thing is to look at sustainable solutions. That includes things 279 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: like environmental entering. Solutions which are relevant in the context 280 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: of Asia, include sustainable finance because so much what Asia 281 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: needs infrastructure and the and there's always a tension between 282 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: affordability and what you need to do for climate change. 283 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: And so we think that the key part of this 284 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: is to make sure that there is a form of 285 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: blended finance. It's brought to to the needs of the region. 286 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: And we are looking now to see how we can 287 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: plate that. So the companies that you've invested in, how 288 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: typically how receptive other management teams and the boards to 289 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: some of the your sustainability and and e s g 290 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: in initiatives. Increasingly so because I think they see the 291 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: winds of change. Uh their customers are asking for it. 292 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: They have to look at their production methods to see 293 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: whether it's in line with what their customers will expect 294 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: them to do. Uh. So most of them realize that 295 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: they have to start their journey, some of them further 296 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: along the process. Some are of obviously thinking about how 297 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: best approach it. So I think these days we find 298 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: it as we talked to him about this, as much 299 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: as you talked to about you know, their business strategies 300 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: and so on, We're getting a more receptive audience with 301 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: these companies right now. UM, I want to shift gears 302 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: a little bit, because we've heard a lot about the 303 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: groundswell of cash just pouring into a lot of markets 304 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: and particularly private markets around the world in time. Second, 305 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: I know has been involved in that. I mean you 306 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: have to be as you seek out bigger returns. How 307 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: concerned are you about some of the evaluations that you're 308 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: seeing in markets today? So I think the first thing 309 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: we have to bear in mind we're in a low inflation, 310 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: lower interest rate, lower growth, lower return environment. So your 311 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: traditional instruments for returns, for example, fixed income and so on, 312 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you the same returns that 313 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: you're you're used to. So more and more money is 314 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: going to alternatives. Sopping wealth funds are shifting more of 315 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: all of the capital in terms of as an allocation 316 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: to alternatives. So there is a lot of capital looking 317 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: for real and two returns. Now there may be too 318 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: much capital out there looking at the same range of 319 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: investments that we're looking at um And are we going 320 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: to reduce our investment return framework? Monswers No. Uh, does 321 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: that mean there's gonna be very difficult for us to 322 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: source investments that we need to see to get a 323 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: better returned answers Yes, so valuations are a key part 324 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: to that, and we're more than prepared to walk away. 325 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: We feel it doesn't mean a return fessial for the 326 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: long term. So give us the sense of kind of 327 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: the environment out there. I know you you guys are 328 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: invested very aggressively around the Asia. Given the trade tensions 329 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: that we continue to see between the US and China. 330 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: What are you seeing in in your part of the world, 331 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: in some of the opportunities that you're looking at. So 332 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: the number one destination for our capital in the last 333 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: five years has been United States. Number two destinations China. 334 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: So the US China issue, it's not exactly a friendly 335 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: one to US um but look, we have to take 336 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: the wall as it is. You know, we have to 337 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: find our way through the difficulties that that the current 338 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: relationship puts forward to all of us as investors, and 339 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: we have to find a way in which we can 340 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: continue to look for good investments in the areas that 341 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: we are focused on, whether they be in the United 342 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: States or where do they be in China? All for 343 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: that ment, in Europe and India and elsewhere. What's the 344 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: one area that you've been adding your adding to your 345 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: allocation The most technology. So maybe I'll put it this way. 346 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: We have five focus areas. Technology is one life sciences, biotech, 347 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: the second financial services, non bankings, The third to insurance, fintech, payments, 348 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: asset management, consumer because it's such a big thing with 349 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: rising affluence is the fourth and the fifth actually which 350 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: is the most recent and the most exciting. First is 351 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: agribios Sciences. Gives an example of agri bios sciences. So 352 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: for example, you know we're investing in possible foods, you know, 353 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: so alternative proteins. I think you all know about it 354 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: beyond me. Well, we chose impossible foods of a beyond 355 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: time will tell. We'll probably that we be be two witness 356 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: maybe more. Um that we looking at ways in which 357 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: we look at vertical farming, uban farming, look at ways 358 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: in which that could be substitutes for hubicides pesticides where 359 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 1: less chemicals can be used. So just real quick, here, 360 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: is there any area completely avoiding right now? Well, I 361 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: don't think we're going to be investing fossil fuels as 362 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: you continue path to sustainability. Yeah, and ergo, that's why 363 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're at this conference. Delon Pila, Thank you 364 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: so much, for joining us CEO of Timasak International, giving 365 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: his thoughts on his the global investment of Tamasak and 366 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: some of the investments and sustainability and E s G 367 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: and and how that factors into their investments. Indeed, thank 368 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: you so much, thank you for having me. That was 369 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: delon Play. We spoke to him earlier this morning, CEO 370 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: of Timasak International, some very interesting commentary here as we're 371 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: here at the Bloomberg Global Business Form Conference here in 372 00:20:48,800 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: New York. Right now, it's shift focus to We Work. 373 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: It lost its chief executive officer and co founder Adam Newman. 374 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: It's bonds, it does not have stocks because it has 375 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: not been able to do it's initial public offering at 376 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: the value that it would like to do it or 377 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: anywhere close. Bonds trading down significantly as we look ahead 378 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: to the future share of Ada. Bloomberg opinion columnist joining 379 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: us in our interactive broker studios, Shira, how much does 380 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: the departure of Adam Newman really change the landscape for 381 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: We Work? I mean it doesn't. Look it does change things, right, 382 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: because he was one element, a significant element of both 383 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: We Work success and ultimately it's um kind of self 384 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: dealing and bad management, oversight and business model. So changing 385 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: horses does matter. But at the same time, everybody who 386 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: enabled We Work to get to the point where it 387 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: is today is still there. That includes Newman himself. He 388 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: is a significant shareholder, remains a significant shareholder. He's going 389 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: to be on the board, right He's a non executive chairman. 390 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: All the investors are still there, the bankers, the lawyers, 391 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: all the executives. The company is now being run by 392 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: these two insiders. So We Work has a lot of 393 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: questions to answer about both its business model and the 394 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: structure of the company, and that's being those decisions are 395 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: being made by more or less the same people who 396 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: were there all along. So sure, one of the key 397 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: figures for me is Masa Yoshi san of soft Bank. 398 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: Um is there any sense of how committed he and 399 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: the fund is to this company given some of the 400 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: term ra what we've seen. I think that's a key question, 401 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: and I think we still don't really have a good 402 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: answer as to what made sown and soft Bank apparently 403 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: turned against We Work literally at the last minute, right 404 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: in the last few days, it seems, and I at 405 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: least noticed that in We Work statement yesterday about Adam 406 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: Newman's departure and the changes in the management team there. 407 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: Soft Bank was not mentioned. They were not quoted, so 408 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: soft Bank has not said anything, but look, this company 409 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: needs money urgently, and soft Bank is certainly one of 410 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: the more obvious candidates to provide that financing. And there 411 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: was some reporting today from Bloomberg and others that soft 412 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: Bank is looking at potentially additional UM loans and an 413 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: equity infusion, either from soft Bank or from real Estate. 414 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: And how much a shift in leadership hurt potentially we work. 415 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about Adam Newman as being a 416 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: highly flawed leader. Certainly he was, but he also led 417 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: the expansion of the company and had the vision and 418 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: there was a certain cult of personality. Is it a 419 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: liability that he's leaving at all? I think right now 420 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: that we work as we know it is over, and 421 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: whatever emerges is going to be a very different kind 422 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: of company top to bottom. Right, I don't think they're 423 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: going to be able to continue in you this kind 424 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: of breakneck office office expansion they've had for the last 425 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: few years under Newman, this kind of sprawl of the 426 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: company into all these ancillary Uh, we related activities right 427 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: as a kids school, a coding academy, a m communal 428 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,239 Speaker 1: living apartment complexes that may no longer be viable. And 429 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: those were things that were part of Newman's vision for 430 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: the company, and I don't think they're viable anymore. And 431 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: so that means that Newman may not be the right leader. 432 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: If we were going forward, is going to be less 433 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: ambitious and less we worky. So here I know there's 434 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: some financial issues here in the relatively near term. I 435 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: think they were going to get some big funding round 436 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: a debt round, a credit facility from a bunch of banks, 437 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: but that was continguent upon an I p O. Now 438 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: it looks like the IPO was shelved, at least for 439 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: the near term. So what's the sense of the near 440 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: term liquidity of this company? Yes, we Work needs money, 441 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: it needs it soon. It is on roughly a three 442 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: billion dollar annual burn rate this year cash burn rate 443 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: this year, and that meant it was going to need 444 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: money by next year. And as you said, the plan 445 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: was to sell several billions of dollars in stock in 446 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: the I p O. And there were loans, loan agreements 447 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: in place for six billion dollars that was tied in 448 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: part to the completion of the I p O. And 449 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: you're right that right now it doesn't look like that 450 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: an I p O is is going to happen, at 451 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: least not in the next few months. So yeah, the 452 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: company is going to need cash. Again, there's been reporting 453 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: that the company may significantly pairback expenses and cut its workforce. 454 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: That will certainly ease the cash burn, although that would 455 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: be a significant blow to the company and those employees 456 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: as well. And again there's been reporting of the company 457 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: is talking about additional loans and and equity sales to 458 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: kind of keep the company going. Shia. I think this 459 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: takes us to a broader conversation about valuations because we 460 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: work sort of comes after the Uber issues and as 461 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: a ton of money pours into tech startups pretty broadly, 462 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: and I'm just wondering what are we hearing from people 463 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: in terms of how much venture capitalists are sort of 464 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: gut checking themselves and what they're willing to accept in 465 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: terms of private valuations for some of what they're investing in. 466 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: You know, the venture capital industry has been in a 467 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: really weird place the last few years. I think almost 468 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: everybody who's in the business of backing technology startups will 469 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: say that there's too much money slashing around chasing too 470 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: few good companies, and that has made valuations get too 471 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: big and companies get funded excessively, But no one is 472 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: No one is willing to say that they're part of 473 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: the problem, right that it's always the other guy. And 474 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: the other guy recently has been soft Bank with this 475 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: hundred billion dollar Vision Fund that they've poured into companies 476 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: like we Work in Uber and others. So there is 477 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: definitely too much money slashing around chasing too few good 478 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: companies and um. And yet I don't know that anything 479 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: is going to change in the near term because of 480 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: what's happened at We Work, because there's always this tendency 481 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: to say, well, we Work is kind of a one off. 482 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: That was a soft Bank thing, they overinflated this company, 483 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: or Uber was a one off thing. Everything is a 484 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: one off thing. That's somebody else's fault. I certainly hope 485 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 1: that in the corners of Silicon Valley, where that your 486 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: capitalists live and work, that there's been some rethinking about 487 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: what they personally need to do to prevent companies like 488 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: We Work from happening again, whether that's over capitalization or 489 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: entrenching too much, too much power in these founders without oversight, 490 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: sure of a day. Thanks so much for joining us 491 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: talking to us about what is the latest on we work. 492 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: Here is a Bloomberg Opinion technology columnists for Bloomberg Opinion. 493 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. 494 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts 495 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on 496 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: Twitter at pt sweeney A. Lisa brom It's I'm on 497 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast. You 498 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio