1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt. They call 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: me Bed, and we are joined as always with our 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: super producer Paul, Mission controlled dec and most importantly, you 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know this. This is a 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: weird one. We've been doing some some hidden history recently, Matt, Yes, 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: we have, and it's some of our favorite topics that 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: we ever cover on the show. I think personally for 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: the two of us, am I speaking for you too 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: much here? I feel like I feel like when we 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: hit a historical mystery like this, I can see your 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: gear is turning and I can feel mind turning. And uh, 17 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: this one is certainly no exception. This is a topic 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: that I'm really surprised we haven't covered before in the past. 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: I was surprised too. And it's funny because on our 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: Facebook page, here's where it gets crazy. Today's topic was 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: actually a subjective conversation. Did you see that? Oh? My gosh, no, 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: I didn't even look. Yes, here's where it gets crazy. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: Our Facebook community page, Hello, Maddie B. Maddie recently said, 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: have they meaning us, Matt done a good episode about 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: Roanoke and I like that. Maddie said, good, good, yes, 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: qualified a good one about that yet well and then 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: John H came through and said like Croatian Roanoke. So 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: uh so I responded there and said, we have not, 29 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: but stay tuned for an upcoming episode. Hopefully it will 30 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: be a good one. And this is that episode. We 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: were working on it. We didn't want to spoil the surprise. 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: We're not sure when this comes out, but we are 33 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: finally doing an episode investigating the strange story of the 34 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: lost colony of Roanoke. So, everybody growing up in the US, 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: here's some version of this story, typically in middle school, right, Yes, 36 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: it's like a middle school story that's spooky enough to 37 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: get the attention of even the class clown. Yeah. Well 38 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: it's and it's as you're learning your first learning about 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: the British colonies within you know, in North America, and 40 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: you start learning about a lot of these and you're 41 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: going through you know, it's interesting stuff. It really is 42 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: when when you think about the hardships, the genocide, there's 43 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: like all kinds of crazy stuff that was happening at 44 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: the time, but the mystery really hits when you start 45 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: talking about Roanoke. Yes, a story that, depending on who 46 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: you ask, has not been resolved even in these our 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: modern days. So here are the facts. This tale really 48 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: begins in fifteen eighty when a gentleman named Sir Walter 49 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: Raleigh makes a deal with Queen Elizabeth, the first to 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: establish an English colony in you know, in North America, right, 51 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: And he was given a time frame. It wasn't like 52 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: just okay, you have carte blanche, go out there and 53 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: just make a colony. He was given ten years to 54 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: do it. And the whole concept here was that whatever 55 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: is recovered, whatever's found once, you know, as this colony 56 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: is being established, would be shared between Sir Walter and 57 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: his people as well as it would be shared with 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: him and the crown essentially. And yeah, make no mistake, 59 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: he's kind of working on commission, right, because exactly what 60 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: it is. If they don't find anything, then all of 61 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: that money, time, all those resources will have been for 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: not And that would sound like a very risky endeavor 63 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: and less we consider the other ulterior motive for the 64 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: establishment of colonies in this part of the world, which was, 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: of course it was a military application. There we go, 66 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: because England and Great Britain they were fighting Spain as 67 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: as they were, you know, fighting other world powers a 68 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: lot during those times. And this would give a this 69 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: would give sort of a beachhead, sort of a home 70 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: away from home for English military and naval operations to 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: be based at. And Raleigh himself did not personally travel 72 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: across the Atlantic to establish the colony. Let me know, 73 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: that would be that is a treacherous journey. Oh yes, yeah. 74 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: And one of the myths that we have to bust, 75 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: a misperception that a lot of people share about the 76 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: so called lost Colony of Roanoke is the idea that 77 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: these people just landed their ran lee, came out of nowhere, 78 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: made some bad decisions, and disappeared. Here's here's what happens. 79 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: There's a lot that leads up to this. There is 80 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: a initial exploratory expedition they sail in fifty four. They're 81 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: not attempting to establish a permanent base of operations. They're 82 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: not attempting to start a colony with families. These are 83 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: dudes who are kind of scouting out suitable location. Yeah, 84 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: they're literally location scouts. And that's what this whole first 85 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: expedition was about. And they were successful. They found a 86 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: small island and they decided to call it Roanoke. It's 87 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: located inside what are known as the Outer Banks. The 88 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: Outer Banks are a long string of these narrow islands 89 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: that shelter half the coast of North Carolina or what 90 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: we call North Carolina today. If you look at a 91 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: map from above, it looks as though it would just 92 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: be the entire land and a mass edge basically, and 93 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: that got flooded. That's what it looks like from a 94 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: from a map. And Roanoke itself is pretty attractive to 95 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: these dudes because as fertile soil, it has easily defensible positions. 96 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: It's it's well wooded. There's also wildlife it. The geography 97 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: of the island is such that ships can't anchor their safely, 98 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: which is a huge deal, and be easily protected. But 99 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 1: as it was a common situation back in those times, 100 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: as settlers from Eastern Lands came over to this area, 101 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: these guys started making all kinds of enemies, especially with 102 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: the indigenous people's there. They charged members of one of 103 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: the local tribes or one of the communities there, they 104 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: charge them of theft, and they beheaded the chief of 105 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: one of these groups, and they burned a village to 106 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: the ground. And that's you know, not not an initial 107 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: way you make friends, right, not a good look. No, 108 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: And keep in mind they were doing this while they 109 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: were also becoming increasingly reliant on the native population for food. Yeah, 110 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: so that's a terrible first impression. Sir Francis Drake happened 111 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: to be pirating along the area and he found this 112 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: exploratory group and he says, you know what, I'll give 113 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: you a lift back to England. So that is the 114 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: end of that first exploratory thing. They say we found 115 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: The first expedition says we found a good place and 116 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: the geography is fine. And then then you know, the 117 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: British say well, how's the neighborhood, and they go it's 118 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: a little intense. I'm not gonna lie, a little intense. 119 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: You know, we had a hand in the tensions for sure, 120 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: and ahead and ahead and attentions. So what they didn't know, 121 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, the phrase ships in the night right, we've 122 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: all heard that in English. What they didn't know is 123 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: that they were in a literal ships in the night situation. 124 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: Because while Drake is sailing back to Europe with the 125 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: first crew, with that first crew, there is a second 126 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: ship that is sailing to what they called the New World. 127 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: These two ships passed one another in the Atlantic. The 128 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: new group on that second ship, it's it's about a 129 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: hundred men and they they find this abandoned settlement. They 130 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: live on the island for ten months, and at the 131 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: end of the ten months, most of them returned to England, 132 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: but they left a small garrison and probably about fifteen 133 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: men on row and note to keep the seat warm, 134 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Well and too essentially, I 135 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: guess as a as a last defense of the area 136 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: that they're currently controlling right now. This next group of 137 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: fellows who ended up showing up on the island, they 138 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: had no idea just how bad of a situation they 139 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: were entering. As far as you know, diplomatic relations with 140 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: the indigenous people's were going. So they you know, unfortunately, 141 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: also continued being pills. Let's say, yeah, they were real pills. 142 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: They're being real pills, real jerks. Themselves. And it should 143 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: come as no surprise that these guys, the second group 144 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: of people that went over to Roanoke, disappeared. They were 145 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: never seen or heard from again. Fast forward seven, around 146 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventeen, one seventeen men, women and children 147 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: arrive on the third expedition. They settled on Ruinoke Island 148 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: and what would later be called North Carolina. They found 149 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: the skeletal remains of one of the fifteen soldiers the 150 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: earlier expedition, and that's it. We don't know what happened 151 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: to the other fourteen. This third expedition had the best 152 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: shot of the three. It was larger in terms of 153 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: population and in terms of supplies, and they have better 154 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: supplies too. They were led by a rod of veteran, 155 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: a cartographer and artist named John White. This is also 156 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: the first group to include uh substantial amount of women 157 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: and children to a real chance of settling down and 158 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: expanding the population right reproducing, and they attempted to reconcile 159 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: with the native communities. They have mixed results because there 160 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: was just too much bad blood. They managed to repair 161 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: relations with one nearby tribe, Powatan's living on nearby Croatan island, 162 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: but the other tribes in the area is thought of 163 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: hostile aloof distance, we hear you burn villages, you know 164 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, exactly. The colonists were vastly outnumbered 165 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: despite the size of their colony, and they were terrified 166 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: that the next small skirmish with any member of the 167 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: native population could escalate, it could grow into an all 168 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: out battle, and that battle would inevitably, just based on 169 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: the numbers, be a massacre. Yeah, so you know, what 170 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: does he do? Um, let's go ask the guy who 171 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: was in charge here, at least officially, um, Sir Walter Rawleigh. 172 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: So he gets in a ship and heads back to 173 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: England to talk to Raleigh in person. Because you know, 174 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: if you have that kind of meeting in person, you 175 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: could maybe convey a little better the the fears and 176 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: the stakes that are involved, rather than sending a message 177 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: somehow across the sea. You could also at this time 178 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: avoid errors in communication. Yes, right, that would be. That's 179 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: a huge factor here. So as weird as it sounds 180 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: nowadays to say the guys sailed back across the Atlantic 181 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: to just get in a room with Sir Walter Raleigh 182 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: and talk to him. At that time, we have to 183 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: remember being able to have that conversation and instantly field 184 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: answers to questions, because of course they're going to be 185 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: follow up questions. That's probably the most efficient thing to do. 186 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: It is um almost inconceivable at this point with communication, 187 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, in the past hundreds of years being so immediate, right, 188 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: And he had to plan ahead. So John White said, look, 189 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: we know things are not terrible yet, but they're not 190 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: in the best position. You might have to relocate to 191 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: survive if while while I'm gone, while I'm I'm gaining 192 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: favor and organizing a rescue mission essentially, So let's let's 193 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: figure out symbols that we will leave, signs so that 194 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: we will return and if anything goes wrong, it'll be 195 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: something that just we colonists will understand. He said, if 196 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: you do move in my absence, carve your destination on 197 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: this tree, you point out a specific tree, and if 198 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: you're in trouble, also carve a Maltese cross. So he 199 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: gets to England. He's got a good plan, and he 200 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: finds that uh, surprise, surprise, time and distance have made 201 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: the Empire's goals a little bit. Uh you know, they've 202 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: they've diverged. The Empire and the colonies have different goals now, 203 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,599 Speaker 1: the people in the colonies trying to survive, people in 204 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: the Empire trying to win this war with Spain, and 205 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: so the in the strategic position of you know, potentially 206 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: Roanoke isn't a high priority anymore. Right, So John White 207 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: shows up and says, hey, we need help and across 208 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: the ocean and they say, all right, well, we're really 209 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: we're doing this Spain thing. Now, that's what this episode 210 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: of Our Our Empire is about. We're spent. You're very 211 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: much a b story right now. And this means that 212 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: he doesn't return to Roanoke for three years. Three years, 213 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: it's a long pause. But when he does return to Roanoke, 214 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: he's got armed soldiers, he's got the supplies they need, 215 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: he is ready. The cavalry, as they say, has arrived late, 216 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: but it's arriving. And we'll tell you what happened right 217 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor. So let's paint the picture. 218 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: Let's speculate a little bit about what John White encountered 219 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: when he disembarked. Imagine how strange it must have been 220 00:14:54,640 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: for him to return to the settlement. His wife is sild, 221 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: his sudden laws, grandchild had all lived there, and it's 222 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: been three years. But the air is erally quiet. There 223 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: no sounds of, you know, someone clinging iron on a forge, 224 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: wood being chopped somewhere in the distance. There's none of that, 225 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: just the sounds of nature, the ocean and the empty wind. 226 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: The houses were gone, they have been taken down. There 227 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: was one thing he noticed, which was a roughly built 228 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: fort surrounding the former settlement. And when he we say 229 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: roughly built, it looked like it had been made in 230 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: a hurry, as a reaction to something. And then on 231 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: a post he found one of two clues what was it. 232 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: They were carvings, first the word crow a toWin so 233 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: c r O a t O a N. And then 234 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: on another tree he found the carving c r O. 235 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: And it was not in the places where he was 236 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: expecting it to be, right, I believe so. The cannons 237 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: and boats that were supposed to be at the bay nearby, 238 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: they were gone. White had buried a couple of chess earlier, 239 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: with drawings, maps and books. He found these, but they 240 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: were torn apart. They had been ruined at some point 241 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: over the past three years by the weather. He found 242 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: no bones, he found no corpses, found no evidence one 243 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: way or another to show what had happened to the colonists, 244 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: other than of course, that fortress, the fourth they have 245 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: built around themselves. So it appears that sometime between five 246 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: and fifty seventeen, souls of the Roano Colony had simply disappeared. 247 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: And our big question today is what happened to them? 248 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So when we explore this topic, 249 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: we find that there are some people who were convinced 250 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: it's been solved. The problem is that not everybody agrees. Yes. 251 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: That's why technically this still remains a mystery today with 252 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: no shortage of what we might call conspiracy theories from 253 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: an earlier age, from before the term conspiracy theory existed. 254 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: So if we ask ourselves what could have happened, we 255 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: have to note it looks like they didn't leave under duress. Yeah, 256 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: but the fortress thing alone would lead you to believe 257 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: that they were trying to protect themselves somehow and quickly. Right. 258 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: But because you don't have the evidence of bones or 259 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, any anything that would show like a body somewhere, 260 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: doesn't show that they were leaving under someone either forcing 261 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: them with physical action, right, or I would say, equally importantly, 262 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: the Maltese cross that was supposed to be carved as 263 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: a signal of trouble. And now we have to ask ourselves. 264 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: We've been thrown around the word. So they carved out 265 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: the word crow Atin, right, Sometimes I say Croaton, but 266 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: I think it's just a mnemonic plot twist that's happened 267 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: to me along the way when I was learning this. 268 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure my brain read Crowatin 269 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: earlier when we were discussing the Here's where it gets 270 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: crazy thing, it saw Crowton, but it read Croatian. So um, 271 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: apologies for that. Everybody who's been like raising their fists 272 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: in the air this entire episode. Um, I'm aware now 273 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: this is plot twist. There's going to be a second 274 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, and it's all about how 275 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: they went to Croatia. Think about it. People know so 276 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: the here here's what you need to know. So Crowton 277 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: is a barrier eye. And another island on these outer 278 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: banks that you described earlier met now it's called Hatteras Island. 279 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: It's about thirty five miles south of Roanoke thirty five 280 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: nautical miles. It's called Croton because it's home of the 281 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: Croatan people, the native community, and they this is important. 282 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: They were friendly to English colonists. So based on that, 283 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: it seems logical to say, if the colonists had run 284 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: out of food on Roanoke, or if there have been 285 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: some maybe a problem with sanitation or disease or something 286 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: that made it unlivable, it would make sense for them 287 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: to go to the friendly communities, right. And John White 288 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: knew that. That's the thing about history. Every time we 289 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: relate these tales, in these narratives, we have to remember 290 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: that people born in living hundreds and hundreds of years ago, 291 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: we're just as intelligent as the people you meet today. 292 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: That is both a compliment and a criticism, you know 293 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: what I mean. They weren't dumb, They just had different tools. 294 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: So and we're not dumb either, we just have different tools. 295 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: Juries up for debate, you know. I think it's up 296 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: to future stories. But but John White. I say all 297 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: that about intelligence because John White and his crew and 298 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: the captain he had hired understood that the next logical 299 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: move would be to go to the other islands. Yet 300 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: they never searched that island. John White never searched that island, 301 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: even though his family had disappeared for minor issues. Right 302 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: there was whether whether it was a factor preventing them 303 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: from going over to that island. And they also lost 304 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: an anchor at some point in one of their ships, 305 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: and it made it, you know, at least in their 306 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: minds and in reality, almost impossible to safely get over there, 307 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: because they've got all these barrier islands across the this 308 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: whole section. You've got pieces of land that are high 309 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: enough to where if you don't know where those islands are, 310 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: you're going to run your ship on something, probably capsize, 311 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: if you know, not completely destroy your ship. And you 312 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: have to be able to land or send You have 313 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: to be able to keep your staful the harbor, even 314 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: to send out a launch boat. So John White is 315 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: not able to investigate, and he has to return to England. 316 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: There are later expeditions that claim to search for the 317 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: lost colony. They are either incredibly unsuccessful, they profoundly fail, 318 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: or they are undertaken with an ulterior motive. There were 319 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: people who said they were searching for this lost colony, 320 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: but really they were They were conducting acts of piracy 321 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: or they were trying to you know, move some product 322 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: of one sort or another. In fact, it wasn't until 323 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: the Jamestown Colony was established way later in six seven 324 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: that they were actual, semi successful, good faith searches to 325 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: discover the fate of the lost colonist Roanoke. Here's the 326 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: other thing, now, not only we were talking about the colonists, 327 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: right uh, and the tragedy the unanswered questions that are 328 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: left in the wake of their disappearance, but we have 329 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: to remember the colony itself disappeared. Yeah, the buildings, Like 330 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: how crazy is that? The buildings were taken down, So 331 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you're heading if you were to head 332 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: out to that island, even if you're John White, and 333 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: you know essentially where everything is, the evidence is gone 334 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: save for that fortress, right and White and other members 335 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: of the leadership of the colony were not super great 336 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: at keeping records. And there's there are a couple of 337 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: reasons for this, so we'll get into in a moment. 338 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: But they were so bad at keeping records that people 339 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: never knew the exact location or whereabouts of that colony. 340 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: There were numerous digs in the intervening centuries that have 341 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: failed to produce evidence of the lost colony. Someone discovered 342 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: remnants of that settlement we mentioned from fifteen eighty five, 343 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: but there's no evidence of the lost colony that's ever 344 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: been found. And one of the big problems with this 345 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: is that the primary sources, the contemporaneous accounts, contradict one another. 346 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: They don't they don't agree. So according to John White, 347 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: the second settlement, the one that's lost, should have been 348 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: located near the north end of the island, but there 349 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: was an affid davit from a Spanish sailor in Fight 350 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: nine that said the settlement was actually near the center 351 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: of the island, where they had stationed some cannons. And 352 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: it would make sense for there to be small you know, 353 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: small not encampments, but um basically cells of the of 354 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: the settlement would be, you know, in various places, depending 355 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 1: on what you're going to use them for. If you're 356 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: gonna be fishing, you're gonna have some stuff that's closer 357 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: to the water. If you're you know, protecting something, it 358 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: would make sense to put it towards the center of 359 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: the island. Um that all makes sense. The problem is 360 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: if you're gonna do an historic dig, you kind of 361 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: have to do the whole island then at this point 362 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: to really like figure it out. So there there were 363 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: a couple other things that were found. There was an 364 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: old well and one small cannon that was found near 365 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: the bay area, not San Francisco in this case, the 366 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: Roanoke Bay area, and that was basically in support of 367 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: the the deposition that was given by that Spanish sailor. 368 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: But then some some historians now believe that the what 369 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: was it the seven Settlement actually is underwater right right, 370 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: that centuries of erosion have submerged the settlement, and that 371 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: we should be looking under the waves for it instead 372 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: of under the ground. Ultimately, right now, no one is 373 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: sure what happened to the Rowanoe colonists, or again, no 374 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: one agrees on their theory about what happens. When it 375 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: comes to the story of the lost colony. We have 376 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: a lot of theories, we just don't have a ton 377 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: of hard evidence. So let's let's just quickly go to 378 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: the initial theory. What did Governor John White think? So 379 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: he is the first person who officially discovered the colonists 380 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: have disappeared. He reports everything he sees in a letter. 381 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: He says, there are no bones like those that they 382 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: found in the colony where they found the remnants of 383 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: that one soldier and Governor White said, the houses have 384 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: been taken down. They had not been destroyed and not 385 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: been burned. They have been disassembled in theory to be 386 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: reassembled somewhere who knows. Who knows? That would be the 387 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: only thing that makes sense to me. But let's continue. 388 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: In White's opinion, they moved we have the quote here 389 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: fifty miles into the main, meaning that they have moved 390 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: inland into the forest of North Carolina. Proper historians like 391 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: this idea for numerous reasons over the years. But when 392 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: they get to when you get to the part of 393 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: the narrative where you say, why did they move inland? 394 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: What happened to them afterwards, that's when you see more 395 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: and more and more debate. We're going to pause for 396 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, and then we'll return with 397 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: more theories after the break, and we're back now. Just 398 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: let's I want to have a quick comment on there 399 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: about this uncept to the perhaps the colonists moved inward 400 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: towards the main. The only thing I would put forward 401 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: here is that food had always been an issue well 402 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: in this settlement, and if you're moving, you know, to 403 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: the main land and not an island that's so separated 404 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: from probably populations of certain mammals that are walking around, 405 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: um and birds and other things, it would make sense 406 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: that they would move inland to have a better food source. 407 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: That there are a lot of problems here. The main 408 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: one would be that the indigenous populations may not like 409 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: that very much that they're encroaching in that way. But well, 410 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: let's get into all this stuff, because it really is 411 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: conceivable overall that the colonists met a much less violent 412 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: fate than maybe you would you would think, you know, 413 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: having all of their stuff gone and just disappearing, because 414 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: the first thing at least I think of is, oh, something, 415 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: most foul occurred here. But perhaps that's not the case. Right. 416 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: The Jamestown colonists when they when they conducted that search 417 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, they sent out a couple of different parties 418 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: to hunt out members of the lost colony, and it 419 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: became a common thing, standard operating procedure for them to 420 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: question any members of native communities when they make contact. 421 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: It was one of the things they always asked them 422 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: about you know what I mean, how's the weather? Uh? 423 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: You know, the fishing good? Have you seen any people 424 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: who look like us? Uh? And if so, what, what's 425 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: what's their deal? So we're paraphrasing. Some of the people 426 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: that these colonists talked to said, there are settlements further 427 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: down the coast with people who look like you, and 428 00:28:54,680 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: they have two story thatched roof houses that look like uh, 429 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: you know from the descriptions. Europeans would think, well, that 430 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: sounds like the kind of stuff we would build. And 431 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: then other groups told of nearby tribes that could read 432 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: English and dressed in a similar method manner to Europeans. 433 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: The most I think the most dramatic report in the 434 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: record is the story that someone cited a child who 435 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: was dressed in the manner of a native group, and 436 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: this child had blonde hair and was fair skinned. So 437 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: they thought maybe maybe something terrible it happens, like maybe 438 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: a disease or some sort of natural disaster, and that 439 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: do due to that, the surviving members of the colony 440 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: were adopted or assimilated into a native population. I do 441 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: want to pause while we're talking native populations. So the 442 00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: island is Crowato and the community is Croatan. Yeah, yeah, okay, 443 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: so that's that. If you hear if you hear us 444 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: doing some word juggling, if you hear me doing that, 445 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: it's just my my mind's playing tricks on me. And 446 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: if you if you hear me say Croatian, it's just 447 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: because I'm wrong. Still, we don't know. We have to 448 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: hold out for that theory. So this, this mention of 449 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: assimilation from European survivors into a Native American community has doubtlessly, 450 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: uh doubtlessly had a ring of familiarity to some of 451 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: our fellow listeners. And if you're from the area, from 452 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: North Carolina, then you're very familiar with what we're about 453 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: to say, which is of course the story of the 454 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: Lumbi l U M B E E. These reports from 455 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: the from the early days of the Jamestown investigations to 456 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: the modern day us to corroborate one of the most 457 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: popular theories about what became of these colonists that they 458 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: emilated into these tribes, and the idea is that over 459 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: the course of multiple generations, intermarriage between these groups would 460 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: produce a different, distinct group that had elements from both communities, 461 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: and this group is called the Lumbi tribe by people 462 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: who believe this this theory, the Lumbi tribe is native 463 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: to North Carolina, but according to the stories, no one 464 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: can really pin down their origin, and you can see 465 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: a number of different theories about their origin with varying 466 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: degrees of credibility. But they have an oral history, right, Yeah. 467 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: In that oral history actually links them to Roanoke settlers, 468 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: or at least two aspects of those settlers. So, uh, 469 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: that oral tradition is supported by some of the surnames 470 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: within the tribe, which is really interesting and it's it 471 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: was the tribe itself was unique because several of the members, 472 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the members could speak English. And uh. 473 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: And then if you again we're talking about the surnames, 474 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: we look at the family names of some of the 475 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: Roman colonists. You've got people like Hyatt Taylor Dial. The 476 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: Lumbi tribe members or at least members of the Lumbi 477 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: tribe shared these names as early as the seventeen hundreds. 478 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: I think seventeen nineteen is the first date that we're 479 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: aware of there and other settlers who would come through 480 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: make their way, you know, and and interact with these tribes. 481 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: They would, you know, they would be pretty astonished that 482 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: these groups of people had gray eyes. Several times they 483 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: would speak English and there was even um It's really 484 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: interesting because even if you're if you're talking to members 485 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: within the group, if you have reports from members within 486 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: the Lumbi tribe, they they cannot come to a full 487 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: conclusion on there or not there was a true link 488 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: to the Roano colonists, right, that's correct. Yeah, it's a 489 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: it's come to be called this thing. It's been called 490 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: the Lumby connection. Which is I love that as the 491 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: title of something, you know, the Lumby connection, the sequel 492 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: to the French connection. I'm not sure. Yeah, it's It 493 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: remains intriguing because if that is, if it is true, 494 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: if there's sand to this theory, then the Roano Colonists 495 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: aren't lost. Their genes are still around today in Robison County, 496 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: North Carolina. And if you are listening you are a 497 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: member of a group like this Lumbi or or related 498 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: communities of which there are several. We would love to 499 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: know your take on this, especially with the advent of 500 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: DNA testing, which UH dramatically changed the conversation around the 501 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: origin of the Malunging community. There's another set at the 502 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: race which says that the Roanoke settlers fell victim not 503 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: to a Native American community, but to the Spanish Empire, 504 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: because the Spanish had a settlement just down the coast 505 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: in Florida, right, And we know that the Spanish forces 506 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: in the West Indies were aware that they were English 507 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: colonists around. They weren't happy about it, but they knew that, yeah, exactly. 508 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: And there's actually a tale here that was told by 509 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: Darby Gland g L A n d E. This was 510 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: a Roanoke settler. He left the expedition after it set 511 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: ashore in Puerto Rico to take on supply. So they 512 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: were going to stop in Puerto Rico pick up supplies, right. 513 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: He later reported um that he told Spanish officials there 514 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: when he was making this transaction in Puerto Rico about 515 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: the Roanoke settlement exactly where it was, almost as in, 516 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: I don't know, an act of espionage. So that's the thing, 517 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: right when we talk about when we talk about the 518 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: bad record keeping, astute listeners will notice that we also 519 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: pointed out John White was a professional cartographer, so why 520 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: would a professional map maker do such a pissuport job 521 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, mapping things. It probably was not 522 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: because of incompetence. It was more likely that this uh, 523 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: this vagueness was a matter of state security, so so 524 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: that the Empire couldn't find out, you know, the Spanish 525 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: Empire forces couldn't find out about the colony and then 526 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: attack it before the British could send someone over across 527 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: the ocean. It really does make you game out the 528 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: whole scenario when you think about it in that light. Yeah, 529 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: as as a counter intelligence act of cartography, counterintelligence cartography, 530 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: that's a new thing. That's good. I like it. Oh man, dude, 531 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: that's so crazy because what if what if it was 532 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: never located there ever, right on that island? Yeah, or 533 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: you know, also, I want to say the the idea 534 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: of a renegade cartographer is fantastic. Mr White, renegade cartographer. Yes, 535 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: it's con rogue. There are other theories that the colonists 536 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: were innocent bystanders in a entering in media rests uh 537 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: into a greater conflict between rival native communities. There's an 538 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: anthropologist John Hopkins University named Lee Miller who says the 539 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: colonists wandered into a violent shift um of the balance 540 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: of power amongst the tribes that lived inland, because Roanoke 541 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: is geographically located in the crux of what was at 542 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: the time intense socio political friction between two groups. There 543 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: was the Secotan, who were you know, who had dominion 544 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: over Roanoke. There's another group, the Chawanoke, who controlled the 545 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: waterways that were nearby. And again, you know, not native speakers, 546 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: so we're not intentionally mispronouncing the names. Uh. Natives that 547 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: the colonists were friendly with began to lose control over 548 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: the area, and native communities that were hostile to the settlers, 549 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: again with pretty good reason to be, uh, they took 550 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: over the area, they gained more control. So before the 551 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: Jamestown colonists arrived, or maybe right around the same time, 552 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: either around the same time or right before the Poetan 553 00:37:52,800 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: had attacked and destroyed the Chesapeake Way. That's then that tribe, 554 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: is it the Powatan That sounds familiar to me, Yeah, 555 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: it should. That is where that is where the famous 556 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: Pocahontas is from. Oh yeah, it's it's not all paint 557 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: with painting with all the colors of the wind. Yeah. 558 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: They they very much wanted to kill the Chesapeake. So 559 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: relationships between the English colonists and the poets and were 560 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: let's say cold. But even then, even with that, the 561 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: English forces were able to get a little bit of 562 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: information about what happened to the Roano colony, or they 563 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: were able to learn something. Who knows if it was true. 564 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: If the Roano colonists had gone inland in the midst 565 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: of this conflict, then the men would have been killed, 566 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: the women and children probably would have been captured as slaves. 567 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: And if they have been captured as slaves, they would 568 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: have been traded along some established routes that spanned the U. 569 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: S Coast from Virginia to Georgia. And this this is 570 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: important because if we look at the timeline, the idea 571 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: would be that the somewhere in the intervening three years, 572 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: the Roanoke colonists assimilate to another tribe, but then that 573 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: tribe is attacked, and when that tribe is attacked, the 574 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: attacking tribe doesn't care if the people look kind of different, 575 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's it's rules of war 576 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: at that point. Jeus. Well, so those are some of 577 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: the big theories, right and with as those theories were 578 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: being generated and um as they continued, you know, for 579 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: decades and centuries. People in the more modern day we 580 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,959 Speaker 1: have been trying to you know, that one of these 581 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: is true, right, or at least disprove a few of 582 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: these were scientific method ng this thing, you guys. And 583 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, despite over a century of going on that island, 584 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: digging all over the place, trying to find some remnant 585 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: of the colony that would show us, like some tiny clue, 586 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 1: a little flashlight in the dark that would show us 587 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: this picture here, we have really found nothing. Right now. 588 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: In the nine nineties, archaeologists working for the Colonial Williamsburg 589 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 1: Foundation in Virginia found what they're pretty sure is a 590 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: workshop from the five Expedition. That's what a guy named 591 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: Joachim Ghans had tested rocks for precious metals. Other people 592 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: at the workshop studied plants uh to figure out their properties. 593 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: They studied tobacco, things like that, how can we make 594 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: money off this what can be used for? Is interesting 595 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: because he was a Bohemian mining expert. Is the first 596 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: recorded Jewish person in colonial America, and he's also the 597 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: first Bohemian in colonial America. This this workshop looked a 598 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: lot like an alchemist out you know, outfit or establishment. Oh. Sure, 599 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: they found crucibles, you know crucibles, right, classic classical alchemical paraphernalia, Yeah, exactly, 600 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical let's call them jars. Glassware was littered all across 601 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: the floor. There were bricks that were probably used or 602 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: seemed to be have been used in a special furnace 603 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: situation for you know, manipulating and some of the ingredients 604 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about here. The layout itself resembled those of 605 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 1: sixteenth century wood cuts that we that we have of 606 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: these uh German alchemical workshops that were kind of describing 607 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: here where it looks as though, if you know, you 608 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: took one of these wood cuts, if you could, if 609 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: you could enter it somehow and be inside the area 610 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: of the wood cut, and then just destroyed all the 611 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: stuff that you saw and let it sit there for 612 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: a long time. That's what they think they found. I see. 613 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: So now, officially, as of the nineteen nineties, experts have 614 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: only found the remains of that workshop and uh an 615 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: earthen fort that may have been built at a later 616 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: day in time. Diggs conducted near the this earthwork, the 617 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: fort we just mentioned in the eight nineties and nineteen 618 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: forties didn't really give us a bunch of stuff to 619 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: go on. They didn't really change our understanding or help 620 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: it evolve. Excavations continue in the modern day. In two 621 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, an archaeologist named Eric Klingelhoffer and was vice 622 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: president for research at the nonprofit First Colony Foundation in Durham, said, I, 623 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: for emly believe that our program of re excavation will 624 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: provide answers to the vexing questions that past field work 625 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: has left us. That quote, so, I mean it's good. 626 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: You know, they're pretty open about the fact that they 627 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: are going to return to some previous excavations. Maybe improvements 628 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: in technology will help us, uh will help us find 629 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: things we missed the first time. That's the that's the 630 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: returning to the Moon kind of speak. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 631 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: shout out to the mooners. Yeah, all these vexing questions 632 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: about the dark side of the Moon. The other problem 633 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: is that it may be too late. There may be 634 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: an expiration date on discovering the settlement, and that expiration 635 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: date may have passed. Some geologists believe it is vanished 636 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: under the waves. Like you said earlier, Matt J. P. 637 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: Walsh from the University of North Carolina says that recent 638 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,720 Speaker 1: studies suggests shifting currents and rising waters inundated the site 639 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 1: in the past couple of centuries. He estimates the island's 640 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: north end again when the locations are purported rocations from 641 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: John White. He estimates to the north end of the 642 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: islands lost about seven fifty meters in the past four 643 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: hundred years, and their currents and hurricanes could bury any artifacts. 644 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: But not everybody buys this explanation. No, there's a guy, 645 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: it was a wonderful name named Guy Apprentice. It just 646 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: feels right, it feels it feels like a play on Apprentice. 647 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: But it's Guy Parentice. Um. He's an archaeologist from nps 648 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: is Southeast Archaeological Center in Tallahassee. And you've got a 649 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: quote from him here. He says, if you look at 650 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: the maps from the seventeen hundreds, the islands geography has 651 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: not changed much. I just don't buy that a couple 652 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 1: of thousand yards are gone. So he's estimating, you know, again, 653 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,320 Speaker 1: similar fiftys It's it's a lot that's that's a lot 654 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: of shore that would just be gone. And um, I 655 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 1: understand why Guy Prentiss would say, yeah, I don't buy it. However, 656 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: it becomes a matter of kind of who you believe 657 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: and uh and bearing out the science because you'd have 658 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: to figure out exactly how much you know, how how 659 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: do you even if you've got two experts that are 660 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: competing in that way on belief about where the water 661 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: has gone on this island and how much water has 662 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: actually approached the you know, the center of the island itself, 663 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: and how far um you realize that, oh, something is 664 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: wrong here. We don't have enough data or something, because 665 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: we should be able to have an exact answer to 666 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: that question. Yeah. Yeah, it's strange because according to a 667 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: couple of the different tests for various theories, the Lumbi 668 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: DNA may not be itself native American, maybe European and African. 669 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: This genetic testing can always always runs the risk of 670 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: leaving people with more questions than answers. And now we're 671 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 1: looking at the use of things like magnetometers, ground penetrating radar, 672 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: things that people just didn't have earlier, and of course 673 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: their investigations. So it is completely possible that we may 674 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: be able to reconstruct the order of events that led 675 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: to the disappearance of the colonists at Roanoke. What do 676 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: you think about this story, folks? Do you think it's 677 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: a Are you one of the people who think that 678 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: the truth has already been found and that people are 679 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: just you know, barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. Yeah, 680 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: that tree that had the word croatoin catched onto it, 681 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,399 Speaker 1: and like it's that easy, We figured it out. It's done. 682 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: That's that's the history that's over lumby all day, good night, 683 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: um Or do you think something else is at play? 684 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,960 Speaker 1: It's definitely one of those stories where your imagination can 685 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: really run wild when you think about that time and 686 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: the technology that was available in the fear that existed 687 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: of something as simple as the darkness where if you 688 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: don't have a fire going, you cannot see anything at 689 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: night save the moonlight. And what's you know, depending on 690 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: the moon's situation going on up there, you may be 691 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: in almost pitch black darkness, and with all of the 692 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: wildlife that exists in the area, with tribes of indigenous 693 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: people that your grandfather, you know, beheaded with their cousin 694 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: and now you got a deal, uh, And and it 695 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: makes you just think about all the terrible things that 696 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: could have happened to um um. And then you get 697 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 1: into things like the wind to go or you know, 698 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: spiritual force which craft hoaxes like the dare Stones, allegations 699 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,800 Speaker 1: of cannibalism which simony stand, and of course the strange 700 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: Grallan Poe Ambrose Beers connection, which yeah, like it's like 701 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:32,399 Speaker 1: this urban legend where right before he dies, allegedly one 702 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: of the last things that Graland poet says is uh croatoin. 703 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: Well it's not. I don't think it's true, but his 704 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: officially cause of death is unknown. Yeah. Well, like I said, 705 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things that it makes It 706 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: makes me personally think about all kinds of different possibilities, 707 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: and I think some of those possibilities are quite frankly 708 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 1: more fun to imagine, even though it's tear rble to to, 709 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, have these thoughts about the fates of a 710 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen some people who were real human beings 711 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: with lives that maybe we're lost or maybe we're just um, 712 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, integrated into another society. Yeah, that's that's the question, right. 713 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: And also, while the disappeared colonists get the most attention, uh, 714 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: there there's so many other mysterious stories anytime you're in 715 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: an age of expansion. And I think about this often 716 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: because in our lifetimes everyone listening to this. If the 717 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: species doesn't completely burn everything to the ground, we maybe 718 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,839 Speaker 1: we may well see the return of the age of expansion, 719 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: and this time it will be to the stars. And 720 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: it's an exciting time to live somewhere where no one 721 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: really knows what happens towards the edges of the map, 722 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, I think about I think about how often 723 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: history rhymes if it does not totally repeat, and I 724 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 1: wonder about the colonists of the future. We're going to 725 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,360 Speaker 1: be out there in the ink, you know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. 726 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: And I'm waxing philosophical here, waxing science fictional, we should say. 727 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,640 Speaker 1: But it's very much a fact that people are still 728 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: searching for answers to the story of the lost Colony 729 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 1: of Roanoke. If you have the answer, you know what, 730 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear it, and we're not alone. A 731 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of people want to hear it. You can let 732 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: us know on Facebook, you can let us know on Instagram, 733 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: you can let us know on Twitter. You can find 734 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Conspiracy Stuff Show, you can find 735 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: our phone number if you want to use that, it's 736 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: a crazy idea. You can call us and leave a 737 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,719 Speaker 1: message right now. Our number is one eight three three 738 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: s t d w y t K. That's just stuff 739 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know in in a fun, 740 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: handy format. There. Uh. If you do leave a message, 741 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: you know you you may get on the air. You 742 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: may not, but we're definitely going to hear it if 743 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 1: it's fun. If you don't want to do that and 744 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: you just want to send us some kind of message, 745 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,800 Speaker 1: try not to use attachments, just because our company policy 746 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,920 Speaker 1: is to to not download things. But if you do 747 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: a picture inline, it's all good. It's all good. Is 748 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: that too much information? Yes, it is all right. But 749 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,120 Speaker 1: still you can email us. We are conspiracy at i 750 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:58,799 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to 751 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 752 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 753 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 754 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.