Speaker 1: All the media.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the War Update and Update about War. I'm
Speaker 2: your host Miya Wong with the is is James and Robert.
Speaker 1: War never changes, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Yeah, except for Yeah, I mean all the time changes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, except for all the changes.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's a line from the film.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean the most important part doesn't change, which is
Speaker 3: most things in a proper place at right time, right,
Speaker 3: That's that's that's what determines war winning. But the things
Speaker 3: that matter are what change.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Also what doesn't change? Not great fun for
Speaker 1: the most part, and un enjoyable way to spend your time.
Speaker 3: Not enjoyable except for for the chunk of people who
Speaker 3: tend to make most of the calls.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, enjoyable a lot. Yeah, enjoyable. You're an old
Speaker 1: guy in a big house. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna be talking about three wars. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: think we're gonna We're gonna lead off with the India
Speaker 2: Pakistan war, and then we're gonna do the other two
Speaker 2: wars in some order you want to do you want
Speaker 2: to announce the other two wars?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna talk about the end of the of
Speaker 1: the armed conflict between the PKK and the Turkey State.
Speaker 1: Maybe mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll be talking about Yemen a little bit.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, man, yeah, let's let's Oh god, let's do this. Okay.
Speaker 2: So good news missed is that. Look, we do have
Speaker 2: good news, which is that we have not all died
Speaker 2: in the nuclear fires. I know there are some of
Speaker 2: you for whom you were very disappointed, but we're all
Speaker 2: still here for better or for worse, I mean for better,
Speaker 2: Like I'm very glad we didn't all dine in nuclear fire. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so let's let's let's talk about the recent war between
Speaker 2: India and Pakistan. Lasted about four days, so all right. Well,
Speaker 2: we talked about this a little bit before. The very
Speaker 2: basic sort of elements of this conflict. We talked about
Speaker 2: partition on the show before. When India sort of gain
Speaker 2: in dependence from the British Empire, it split into Indian Pakistan.
Speaker 2: Millions died, horrific sort of conflict, people killing each other,
Speaker 2: like mass migrations across the borders. Very very very unstable
Speaker 2: set of borders get set up that change a bunch
Speaker 2: of times. And one of the aspects of this sort
Speaker 2: of whole thing is that Kashmir was supposed to be
Speaker 2: this independent state and then through an extremely convoluted process
Speaker 2: that I am again once again pushing off to another
Speaker 2: episode with like actual good experts on this, because this
Speaker 2: is a very very convoluted thing. But the short version
Speaker 2: of it basically is that this series is sort of
Speaker 2: escalating conflicts end ends basically in a short war and
Speaker 2: then kasher being split into between India and Pakistan, where
Speaker 2: like about a third roughly of Kashmir ends up under
Speaker 2: Pakistani control and then about two thirds ends up under Indian.
Speaker 2: Now there's an agreement signed by sort of Kashmir's ruler
Speaker 2: at the time to let India like annex like two
Speaker 2: thirds of Kashmir or so the actual dividing line basically
Speaker 2: ends up being like where the armies stopped. You know,
Speaker 2: it changes over the years. But the important thing here,
Speaker 2: right is that Kashmir is supposed to have had an
Speaker 2: independence referendum, Right that was like, yeah, the deal now
Speaker 2: in a move that is like Genny Winey even more
Speaker 2: stunning than the ship that like Indonesia pulled in West
Speaker 2: Papua so ins Papua, right, like Indonesia pulls a like
Speaker 2: fake independence referendum here, they've never even done that, like
Speaker 2: the never never pretended to have the referendum, and they're
Speaker 2: supposed to have.
Speaker 1: It's like a sub assad level attempt at democracy, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, they're just like nope, each ship like you're you're,
Speaker 2: you're basically a colony now. Now as as part of
Speaker 2: this deal, right, Kashmir got a pretty substantial amount of autonomy.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna read there. There's actually there's a very good
Speaker 2: Jacobin one of the rare good Jacobin articles, which usually
Speaker 2: tend to be the ones written like not by the
Speaker 2: American Jocobin writers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm freelancer who made fifty US dollars for writing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's their rate to goun up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is written by Irish k And I'm gonna
Speaker 2: quote here from this article. Quote central to the instrument
Speaker 2: of a session. It's the document that the ruler of
Speaker 2: Kashmir signed is sort of Likedhan Kashmir ver to India.
Speaker 2: Quote what's the constitutional provision of Article three seventy which
Speaker 2: assured the Kashmiri people autonomy over all matters besides those
Speaker 2: pretending to defense, external affairs and communications. The article was
Speaker 2: supposed to be temporary and provisional, because there was a
Speaker 2: promise of a referendum by which the people of Kashmir
Speaker 2: would decide their own political fate to remain part of India,
Speaker 2: to join up with Pakistan, or become an independent state.
Speaker 2: But as you've already mentioned, this has never happened. I mean,
Speaker 2: they didn't even do it, sham one. It just literally
Speaker 2: didn't ever happen. And India has just been imposing its
Speaker 2: rule in Kashmir ever since. And I mean it's also
Speaker 2: worth pointing out that Pakistan has also been imposing its
Speaker 2: rule on like it's part of Kashmir. But the Indian
Speaker 2: occupation has become increasingly brutal basically since it's starting, it's
Speaker 2: just continued to get worse and worse, and it is
Speaker 2: sort of a full blown military occupation, right There's just
Speaker 2: like a bunch of fucking Indian troops in the street.
Speaker 2: And as it becomes clear that India is like never
Speaker 2: going to let Kashmir be free or just even let
Speaker 2: the Kashmi people decide what they want, Milton struggles and sews.
Speaker 2: And as Kate points out, it's originally spearheaded by the
Speaker 2: secular Jamu Kashmir Liberation Front, and this group has just
Speaker 2: sort of wiped out because it wanted an independent Kashmir.
Speaker 2: And this was convenient to neither the Indian or the
Speaker 2: Pakistani government because Pakistan and Pakistan talks about this a
Speaker 2: lot internatually, Like one of their sort of international political
Speaker 2: things is like, yeah, we want free Kashmir. But it's like, no,
Speaker 2: you don't. You want Kashmir be part of Pakistan. That
Speaker 2: is not the same thing as it being free, like
Speaker 2: very clear about this, yeah and so and so Pakistan's
Speaker 2: engagement towards Kashmir has always been about this, right, It's
Speaker 2: always been about making sure that there wouldn't be any
Speaker 2: kind of sort of independent Kashmir. And so both India
Speaker 2: and Pakistan crush this sort of secular KASHMIRI independence group
Speaker 2: that happen spearheading a lot of this, and over time
Speaker 2: Pakistan is sort of through it, through a complicated series
Speaker 2: of things, has sorted a lot of control over a
Speaker 2: lot of these groups or has like intelligence relations with them.
Speaker 2: Is SI kind of notoriously works with militant groups like
Speaker 2: the I s. I is the group in Afghanistan that
Speaker 2: like really full on did the thing that everyone thinks
Speaker 2: that the US and the Saudi sort of did in
Speaker 2: in terms of like funding the worst parts of the Mujahadeen,
Speaker 2: like that was really mostly Pakistani intelligence. Yeah, so like
Speaker 2: they have a lot of relations with the bunch of
Speaker 2: people who absolutely fucking suck, and they've you know, sort
Speaker 2: of used a lot of these a lot of these
Speaker 2: groups as like a way to sort of poke a
Speaker 2: stick in India and also you know, like attempt to
Speaker 2: obtain their sort of like domestic political goals of like
Speaker 2: weakening India for the real sort of internal stability, which
Speaker 2: we'll come back to later, well, the interior's ability of
Speaker 2: like military of the power of the military in Pakistan,
Speaker 2: and also like taking the rest of Kashmir. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so this has caused a really horrific conflict in which
Speaker 2: the people of Kashmir have suffered a bunch of horrible shit.
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, that autonomy, you know again that the
Speaker 2: autonomy that was the carrot in order to like join
Speaker 2: in order to exchange for cashmer joining India right and
Speaker 2: supposedly getting this referendum, like the like the carrot was
Speaker 2: supposed to be that they're supposed to have an unbelievable
Speaker 2: amount of internal autonomy. And in twenty nineteen it had
Speaker 2: been being eroded for a long time, but in twenty
Speaker 2: nine India is just like each hit fuck you, it's gone,
Speaker 2: now have fun. And this causes a bunch of protests,
Speaker 2: It causes Milton Group attacks, It causes a genuinely astonishing crackdown.
Speaker 2: I mean, like they they turned off the phones in
Speaker 2: the internet in Kashmir. The Indian government just like did
Speaker 2: this and it became unbelievably difficult to get any information out.
Speaker 2: They arrested unbelievable numbers of people. There are i mean
Speaker 2: just absolutely horrifying accounts of the ship that Indian security
Speaker 2: forces were doing to people. You know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like this is this is this is a colonial occupation, right.
Speaker 2: The things that happen in the colonial occupation, they fucking
Speaker 2: torture people, they kill people, they like they rape people.
Speaker 2: It's it's really fucked And during this as as more
Speaker 2: sort of like militant attacks rupt like in India, does
Speaker 2: the first version of its well not the first version,
Speaker 2: but it does. It does like it launches a series
Speaker 2: of attacks on southern Pakistan and this is kind of
Speaker 2: you know, there were escalations of it a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. But you know, the sort of big deal
Speaker 2: this time was insurgents and it's we have a group
Speaker 2: that claimed responsibility for it. It's still I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's still unclear the extent to which packs INNY government
Speaker 2: was actually involved. There's the whole thing with this. But
Speaker 2: a bunch a bunch of sort of insurgents killed like
Speaker 2: twenty five Hindu tourists in a Kashmari tourist town and
Speaker 2: it's really fucking horrifying. This immediately causes this just unhinged
Speaker 2: wave of Indio nationalism, like you do for a sort
Speaker 2: of nationalism in India. We talked last time about all
Speaker 2: of these Indian government officials like literally talking about quote
Speaker 2: it Israel style final solution to Kashmir. So a bunch
Speaker 2: of very very horrific shit is happening. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: India decides that it's it's going to start launching attacks
Speaker 2: across the border. There's like the immediate small arms fire,
Speaker 2: there's missile strikes, there's drone attacks, and then as this
Speaker 2: sort of escalates, India launches attacks on three Pakistani air
Speaker 2: bases and again like they hit an air base that
Speaker 2: is in the city where Pakistan's Army General headquarters is,
Speaker 2: which is a kind of provocation that has not happened
Speaker 2: since like the last time these two countries were just
Speaker 2: straight up at war. And you know, like that could
Speaker 2: have killed us all. It didn't, but it absolutely could have,
Speaker 2: and it was also just horrifying for it. And it's
Speaker 2: worth pointing this out right. The people who are getting
Speaker 2: killed on both sides of the border here, like Ar
Speaker 2: Keshmiri's right, because like their home has been occupied by
Speaker 2: these two powers. When when India and Pakistan go to war,
Speaker 2: the people who die on both sides are Ar kashmiris right,
Speaker 2: who are being killed by two states who decided, fuck you,
Speaker 2: we get to control your fate. We get to be
Speaker 2: the people who fucking occupy your land and then claim
Speaker 2: to be the people who represent you. And you know,
Speaker 2: the civilian toll of this is fucking horrifying. There's a
Speaker 2: bunch of a bunch of civilians are killed. People spend
Speaker 2: a huge amount of time cowering in these like horrifying
Speaker 2: overcrowded bunkers. There's a good sort of BBC report on this,
Speaker 2: Like there's so many people packed into bunkers that like
Speaker 2: you can't even like walk. Everyone's just like pressed against
Speaker 2: each other. And three days later you come out of
Speaker 2: your bunker and your fucking house is gone. And those
Speaker 2: are the people who survived, right. It's it's just horrifying,
Speaker 2: And eventually there's a ceasefire. Everyone is now saying different
Speaker 2: things about the ceasefire. The Indian government is trying to
Speaker 2: downplay the US's role in the ceasefire. The Pakistani government
Speaker 2: has been talking about how a whole bunch of places
Speaker 2: were involved, including like Iran and Turkey to some extent,
Speaker 2: or Turkey more than Iran. It seems like the US,
Speaker 2: the UK, and Saudi Arabia all played a role in
Speaker 2: sort of mediating it. That that we can sort of
Speaker 2: confirm the US SEMs to have played the largest role,
Speaker 2: which I guess I don't know. Like Marco Rubio was like,
Speaker 2: we should probably not have a war between to nuclear powers,
Speaker 2: which okay, I'm glad that, like he's finally found a thing,
Speaker 2: a level that he won't stoop to, which is we
Speaker 2: all die in nuclear war.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I would rather Maka Rubio was not
Speaker 1: the Secretary of State, but like of the people who
Speaker 1: could be under Trump administration. He's not as bad as
Speaker 1: somebody other folks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like he we are fully in
Speaker 2: Like which of Hitler's generals would you prefer to be
Speaker 2: in charge of this territory? All these people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't need it. We don't need a debate
Speaker 3: raml right now. What we do need to do is
Speaker 3: throw to ads the Irwin Rommel of the podcast industry.
Speaker 2: Okay, so there are a few things about this conflict
Speaker 2: that are very, very bad. One is that India has
Speaker 2: demonstrated the capacity to launch attacks against Pakistan that don't
Speaker 2: involve them mobilizing their ground troops, which takes forever. It
Speaker 2: is hard. That's really fucking bad. It's also bad that
Speaker 2: again they fucking hit like the air base next to
Speaker 2: Pakistan General Army General Headquarters, which means if they try
Speaker 2: to do another attack, they're gonna have to hit a
Speaker 2: bigger target and they apparently it seems like the Indian
Speaker 2: government has sort of concluded that they can do this now.
Speaker 2: It's also very bad that like most of the like
Speaker 2: domestic Indian left supported this, including CPIM to the comediest
Speaker 2: Party of India Marxist, which is like the sort of
Speaker 2: social democratic technically maoist party that is supposed to be
Speaker 2: like the left in India, like back the attacks, and
Speaker 2: they've always had a fucking terrible line on Kashmir. So
Speaker 2: it's also we're mentioning a little bit. There's been a
Speaker 2: lot of reporting about India. You know, Modia isn't making
Speaker 2: a bunch of noise about trying to just straight up
Speaker 2: cut off Pakistan's access to water, which is very scary. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's worth noting. Kay talks about this in that Jocobin piece.
Speaker 2: Case argument basically is that like they don't actually have
Speaker 2: the infrastructure to do this, which is good because I
Speaker 2: mean that would be a genocide. Like if they just
Speaker 2: knocked out all back Then's access to water for agricultural
Speaker 2: purposes and for drinking purposes, it'd be really bad. But
Speaker 2: here's what I'm going to read this quote. Under the
Speaker 2: Treaty regulations, India is required to share hydrological data that
Speaker 2: is essential for planning to deal with floods and or
Speaker 2: drought dream monsoon seasons. Denying Pakistan access to this data
Speaker 2: would have a damaging impact. Moreover, because of the limited
Speaker 2: storage capacity, India can change the timing of water flow,
Speaker 2: which is crucial for many crops during sewing seasons. So
Speaker 2: there is still a lot of damage they can do.
Speaker 2: They can't straight up do like a genocide, but they
Speaker 2: can do a lot of damage. And while both sides
Speaker 2: have backed off of like direct military conflict, India still
Speaker 2: is committed to every single thing they can do to
Speaker 2: fuck with Pakistan, which affects just like the people Pakistan.
Speaker 2: This has also been politically very good for Modi because
Speaker 2: alternationalism has been bolstering the sort of like Pakistani military
Speaker 2: government because there are alternationalists feed off of this, and
Speaker 2: it's once again really fucking bad for the people of Kashmir,
Speaker 2: who are the ones getting killed in on both sides
Speaker 2: of the border. Yep, war is bad. Free Kashmir hate this.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of war being bad, let's talk about what's
Speaker 3: going on in Yemen. So if you remember from the
Speaker 3: last quarter or so of the Biden administration, after Israel launched,
Speaker 3: there were prizal attacks to October seventh on Gaza, the Huthis,
Speaker 3: which is a depending on your stance, either the legitimate
Speaker 3: government of Yemen or a rebel group in Yemen. You know,
Speaker 3: the international community stance is a rebel group, the Houthis
Speaker 3: Stance is different started launching a series of missile attacks,
Speaker 3: both aimed at Israel and aimed at shipping in the
Speaker 3: Gulf of Aden, right in order to disrupt because the
Speaker 3: significant amount of the world's trade goes through there. And
Speaker 3: this took a number of forms. They have ballistic missiles,
Speaker 3: some of them are indigenous, by which I mean made
Speaker 3: by the who the these oftentimes using stocks that were
Speaker 3: captured from the military and government of Yemen previously. You
Speaker 3: know that they supplanted in a lot of areas and
Speaker 3: other times using missiles that were given to them by Iran. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: so it's a mix of tactics. They have also used
Speaker 3: drones and they have also landed troops in order to
Speaker 3: capture bulk freighters, including one called the Galaxy Leader and
Speaker 3: I think twenty twenty three that was full of cars
Speaker 3: and their claim was that it was a British vessel,
Speaker 3: and obviously the Brits had been helping to arm and
Speaker 3: support Israel. The vessel was actually registered in Lebanon. However,
Speaker 3: whenever we get to discussions about like whose vessel is,
Speaker 3: who's none of that. None of what is registered matters
Speaker 3: vessels are registered all over the place for a variety
Speaker 3: of nothing.
Speaker 4: It's always nonsense.
Speaker 3: That means nothing in Marshall Islands. Yeah, like nothing in
Speaker 3: the entire world. Matters less to the reality of a
Speaker 3: situation than where the vessel is registered. I'm not saying
Speaker 3: that justifies er does it with the houthis that. I'm
Speaker 3: just saying it does not matter where the vessel is registered. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: the ship was owned by a Lebanon based company. But
Speaker 3: also given the nature of capitals, it doesn't all matter
Speaker 3: all that much.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: What also doesn't matter is that in January of this year,
Speaker 3: the Hoothi's freed the captain of that ship and they
Speaker 3: made an announcement that they would limit further attacks to
Speaker 3: vessels flagged at as Israeli or owned by Israeli individuals
Speaker 3: or entities. Right now, that also doesn't mean a lot, right,
Speaker 3: because the nature of international trade means that there are
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, you could basically argue, if
Speaker 3: you're the houthis well this this is owned by a
Speaker 3: multinational corporation who owns companies in Israel, or who has
Speaker 3: heavy investments in companies in Israel. Therefore, right as a result,
Speaker 3: you know, the Hoothi's continued doing the hoothy stuff and
Speaker 3: saw them as kind of a convenient target, a convenient
Speaker 3: place to flex's military muscles. And there were some people
Speaker 3: within the United States defense establishment that considered that extremely convenient, too, right,
Speaker 3: And this is largely due to the fact that Biden
Speaker 3: prescribed a very limited campaign against the Huthies. Now this
Speaker 3: does not mean inexpensive or insignificant. We kept at least
Speaker 3: one aircraft carrier carrying out strikes in Yemen for like
Speaker 3: a year or so, which is kind of the first
Speaker 3: combat duty that an aircraft carrier has had in quite
Speaker 3: some time that was really like active taking incoming fire,
Speaker 3: not incoming fire that ever really threatened the carrier itself.
Speaker 4: But that's sort of beside the point.
Speaker 3: And there were people within the US military establishment who
Speaker 3: were consistently frustrated with the Biden administration that they were
Speaker 3: not letting them operate at a high enough tempo, right,
Speaker 3: And kind of the number one guy advocating for this
Speaker 3: side of events was General Michael E. Carilla, who is
Speaker 3: the head of Central Command or syentcom right, and his
Speaker 3: attitude had been wed a much more aggressive, high tempo
Speaker 3: campaign he pitched the Trump administration when they came in.
Speaker 3: I think it's like an eight to ten month long
Speaker 3: campaign where initially they would degrade who their anti air asset.
Speaker 3: So first we go in there and we use our
Speaker 3: air power to establish air what's called air supremacy.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Air superiority means that you have better quality air support,
Speaker 3: but also your shit can get knocked down. Air supremacy
Speaker 3: means you have complete control of the skies.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: The US military is fairly used to having air supremacy
Speaker 3: if you look at, like, for example, our combat in
Speaker 3: Iraq and Afghanistan when it came to like height, like
Speaker 3: like fighter aircraft helicopters would get shot down from time
Speaker 3: to time obviously and have accidents. We weren't losing F
Speaker 3: eighteens in Afghanistan, right, like they weren't getting knocked out
Speaker 3: of the fucking sky by the Taliban. We had air
Speaker 3: supremacy in Ukraine. Depending on what part of the battlespace
Speaker 3: you're talking about, either things have been more or less
Speaker 3: at a standstill, or Russia has had air superior but
Speaker 3: not supremacy, right, because Ukraine has very solid modern anti
Speaker 3: aircraft defenses, and it has been able to exact a toll.
Speaker 3: We will talk to a greater extent about what's been
Speaker 3: happening with India and Pakistan. It is exceedingly unclear at
Speaker 3: the moment who got the better of the engagement. Did
Speaker 3: any of those Chinese anti aircraft missiles actually knock out aircraft?
Speaker 3: Did any India lose any aircraft? Did Pakistan down an aircraft?
Speaker 3: We actually like everyone's making different claims right now, and
Speaker 3: I don't have objective evidence right other than that we
Speaker 3: can we know that things that there's at least evidence of,
Speaker 3: at least one case what looks like refkage of a
Speaker 3: rough fall, and in at least one case there's what
Speaker 3: looks like a knocked down Chinese anti aircraft missile. I'm
Speaker 3: spacing on the exact name right now, but again that
Speaker 3: doesn't mean anything about how they actually affair in the battlespace,
Speaker 3: right So anyway, Yeah, this motherfucker he had a syncom.
Speaker 3: Michael Lee Carilla was like, I've got this plan. We
Speaker 3: need a much more force. We're going to knock out
Speaker 3: their anti air defenses and then we're going to basically
Speaker 3: carry out a modif version of what Israel carried out
Speaker 3: against Hamas and has Belah, Right, where we start targeting
Speaker 3: and killing the leadership cadro once we've knocked out their defenses.
Speaker 3: And he estimated that would take about a little under
Speaker 3: a year, right, but the better part of a year.
Speaker 3: And the Trump administration said, you can have your higher
Speaker 3: tempo war, but you've got to.
Speaker 4: Show results in about a month.
Speaker 3: Right, In about a month, the US military carried out
Speaker 3: about eleven hundred strikes. They killed, they say, hundreds of
Speaker 3: hooty fighters, destroyed quite a bit of weapons and equipment.
Speaker 3: Very unclear how many fighters they killed, certainly hundreds of people.
Speaker 3: Were those all hoothy fighters? How many weapons and equipment
Speaker 3: were destroyed? I don't have access to that sort of data,
Speaker 3: and I'm not entirely confident that anyone in the US
Speaker 3: military has a much better idea certainly a little bit
Speaker 3: more data. But also they get that shit wrong all
Speaker 3: the fucking time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's also like it's worth noting right when they're
Speaker 2: talking about like casualty numbers, the Huthis are not a
Speaker 2: small rebel group like now they control the capital of Yemen, right,
Speaker 2: Like this is like the government, right, Yeah, they have.
Speaker 3: Not a peer state in terms of the US and
Speaker 3: that they do not have the manufacturing base and capacity,
Speaker 3: but they are equivalent to a small state actor, right yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: So and so what you're bombing them, right like you're
Speaker 2: you're just you're blowing smoking creators and apartment buildings.
Speaker 3: And the Hoothies are so experienced with getting bombed. They've
Speaker 3: been bombed by a lot of people before. None of
Speaker 3: this is new to them, right, yeah. So in the
Speaker 3: first thirty days, while they you know, the US has
Speaker 3: made a lot, has made a lot of claims about
Speaker 3: how many people they killed and the level of degradation
Speaker 3: of Hoothy capacity, the Houthis have done some damage to
Speaker 3: US capacity. They have shot down seven at this point
Speaker 3: at least seven m Q nine Reaper drones, which are
Speaker 3: thirty million dollars each. And in addition, now four f
Speaker 3: eighteen jets have been lost not probably not yeah, probably
Speaker 3: just to fuck ups that are a result of the
Speaker 3: tenth of activity.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: These all tend to be craft that are landing and
Speaker 3: don't get caught by the catapult system that they've got
Speaker 3: on these aircraft carriers or otherwise wind up in the
Speaker 3: Red Sea. Right, there is some suspicion and debate is
Speaker 3: to like, is there any sort of like internal treason
Speaker 3: going on here? Is somebody on the aircraft carrier making
Speaker 3: these fuck ups happen. This is being investigated, I believe,
Speaker 3: although there's no confirmation about like what exactly has gone down.
Speaker 3: It's weird to lose this many FA eighteen super hornets
Speaker 3: and a very short period of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say my understanding of it, also, is
Speaker 2: it the everything that's going on here is that this
Speaker 2: aircraft carrier has been out past the point it should
Speaker 2: have been refitted. Yes, like so extraordinarily.
Speaker 3: And it's also not weird that people fuck up when
Speaker 3: they are carrying on operations at a tempo they never
Speaker 3: have before. Right, And there's a very good chance that
Speaker 3: it's nothing more than that the more you fly, the
Speaker 3: more accidents are going to happen.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Period. Also say, I want to say, imagine you were
Speaker 2: like the deck office.
Speaker 3: Oh man, that poor motherfucker, that motherfucker's getting fucked, Like yeah,
Speaker 3: I think the first one goes over, right, and then
Speaker 3: the second one, uh huh goes yeah, And now it's
Speaker 3: happening right now, you've probably been you're out of the
Speaker 3: push job, and that first guy is kind of lucky
Speaker 3: because when the next two fall off, at least maybe that's.
Speaker 4: Less pressure on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like imagine like you're the deck officer of the fourth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Jesus right, God, that's gotta suck. So in
Speaker 3: about thirty days, the US military had burned more than
Speaker 3: a billion dollars on this operation, right at which point
Speaker 3: Trump and people around him were like, oh fuck, we
Speaker 3: can't keep this ship up. We can't maintain this tempo
Speaker 3: of operations. There were warnings given for within the Defense
Speaker 3: Department that we have used so many of our most
Speaker 3: advanced munitions that if China makes a move on Taiwan,
Speaker 3: we're not sure we have the reserves necessary right these munitions.
Speaker 3: When we talk a lot about the capacity of US firepower,
Speaker 3: people talk about shit like in twenty eighteen, how we
Speaker 3: like a There was this Alqaeda guy who had been
Speaker 3: responsible for the attack on the US coal twenty something.
Speaker 4: Years ago, Yeah, a long gas time ago, who used.
Speaker 3: A cell phone he shouldn't have used briefly and then
Speaker 3: turned it off, and we were able to get visual
Speaker 3: confirmation of where he was from the cell phone signal
Speaker 3: and knock his ass out with a drone right, and
Speaker 3: we do have incredible capacity potentially to make unbelievably precise strikes. However,
Speaker 3: that capacity is reliant both upon a functional network of
Speaker 3: human intelligence, a functional network of operators of aircraft and
Speaker 3: drones who are not completely burnt out by the tempo
Speaker 3: of operations, and access to incredibly advanced munitions, which we
Speaker 3: do not have an inexhaustible capacity and are reliant upon
Speaker 3: an international supply chain to continue to manufacture right, and
Speaker 3: all of that has been endangered by the tempo of
Speaker 3: this campaign. And ultimately there's a great New York Times
Speaker 3: report on this that's just absolutely damning to the military
Speaker 3: that came out as called why Trump suddenly declared victory
Speaker 3: over the Hoothy militia, that declared that after all of this,
Speaker 3: the best we can say is perhaps a modest degradation
Speaker 3: of Hoothy capacities that they can easily recover from given
Speaker 3: enough time, which they're going to get. Because Trump both
Speaker 3: declared victory and stated that the Hoothies had yet again
Speaker 3: agreed to stop striking shipping in the Red Sea, and
Speaker 3: he was like, this is a win. We made a
Speaker 3: deal with him, big deal maker. Donald Trump made a deal. Now,
Speaker 3: if you look at the Houthi said, all they said
Speaker 3: is we're going to stop striking Israeli shipping, which, if
Speaker 3: you'll recall, is what they had said in January.
Speaker 4: So did we win?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: Did the Hoothies win? Not yet, but they're you know,
Speaker 3: they didn't lose. And again, if you understand your insurgent warfare,
Speaker 3: you win by just not losing for long enough.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and it's also worth it's worth mentioning too
Speaker 2: when you're talking about the global supply chain part of this. Right,
Speaker 2: on the one hand, like the US has done an
Speaker 2: extraordinary amount to try to make sure that as much
Speaker 2: as the supply chain as they can is in the US.
Speaker 2: On the other hand, it still requires a bunch of
Speaker 2: chef mother places, including a bunch of rare earth metals
Speaker 2: that the US gets from China. Now you may be
Speaker 2: noting we are currently fighting a trade war with China.
Speaker 2: A bunch of the our like strategic planning is about
Speaker 2: stopping a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. So and we've just
Speaker 2: expended a shit ton of our stack pilot yeahs, that
Speaker 2: we can only replace by using shit we get from China.
Speaker 2: So absolute just gedious brain shit that that that's happening
Speaker 2: here right now at the highest levels of the highest
Speaker 2: levels of the regime.
Speaker 1: Meanma has a lot of rare earth metals, but we
Speaker 1: have China is currently lot closer to securing those than
Speaker 1: the United States is. Yeah, it's not great.
Speaker 3: Well that's all I got. That's the hoodies. Let's have
Speaker 3: another ad break real quick here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 4: Let's do that.
Speaker 1: Let's have an ad break. Lovely, what a nice advertising
Speaker 1: break we are. Now that I know many of you
Speaker 1: have been asking me about what is happening in Kurdistan,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to try my best to very briefly
Speaker 1: explain that in the last segment of this show. So,
Speaker 1: the PKK right, the PKK being the branch of the
Speaker 1: Kurdish Freedom Movement that has operated in Turkey as Turkey
Speaker 1: or Northern Kurdistan, and mostly since the mid twenty teens
Speaker 1: has been based in a Rack or Southern Kurdistan. Right,
Speaker 1: it convened its twelfth Congress in the second week of
Speaker 1: May and it decided to disband it self, lay down
Speaker 1: its arms, and I think the phrasing it used was
Speaker 1: to cease armed activities under the PKK name, which is
Speaker 1: a way of saying things more broadly, It did genuinely
Speaker 1: seem to indicate a commitment to like this sort of
Speaker 1: ballot not the bullet approach. And I'm going to quote
Speaker 1: kind of extensively here from the statement that the PKK released,
Speaker 1: and then from other statements from people Genmilbick, the leader,
Speaker 1: one of the co chairs of the KCK. The KK,
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar, it's a Curdistan Communities Union that
Speaker 1: is a group that allows the different areas of the
Speaker 1: Kurdish Freedom Movement, all of which are inspired by the
Speaker 1: political thought of abd Aujilan, to sort of come together
Speaker 1: and discuss their paradigm, their goals, their methodologies. I guess,
Speaker 1: so I want to read from the PKK statement to
Speaker 1: begin with quote the process initiated by Leader Abdullah or
Speaker 1: Janan statement of February twenty seventh, and further shaped by
Speaker 1: his extensive work and multi dimensional perspectives, culminated in the
Speaker 1: successful convening of our twelfth Party Congress between May fifth
Speaker 1: and May the seventh, despite ongoing clashes, aerial and ground attacks,
Speaker 1: continued siege of our regions, and the KDP embargo our
Speaker 1: Congress was held securely under challenging conditions due to security concerns.
Speaker 1: It was conducted simultaneously in two different locations, with a
Speaker 1: participation of two hundred and thirty two delegates in total.
Speaker 1: The PKK twelfth Congress discussed leadership, martyrs, veterans, the organizational
Speaker 1: structure of the PKK and armed struggle and democratic society building,
Speaker 1: culminating in the historic decisions marking the beginning of a
Speaker 1: new era for a freedom movement. It's a very long statement,
Speaker 1: as tends to be the style of statements from the
Speaker 1: Curdish freedom movement. It talks a lot about Abdullah Jelen,
Speaker 1: as tends to be the style of statement from the
Speaker 1: Kurdish freedom movement. I've I have linked to itinly shown
Speaker 1: as if you'd like to read all of it, and
Speaker 1: you know, I'd encourage you too, you're interested in this
Speaker 1: sort of thing. They talk a lot about the democratic
Speaker 1: nation concept and the idea that occurs in Turks of
Speaker 1: coxisted in Turkey for a long time. I thought this
Speaker 1: part was of interest, and going to quote again here
Speaker 1: the decision of our Congress to dissolve the PKK and
Speaker 1: end the method of armed struggle offers a strong basis
Speaker 1: for a lasting piece and a democratic solution. Implementing these
Speaker 1: decisions requires that leader Appo Appo, it's the evocative form
Speaker 1: of the Kurdish word for paternal uncle, but in this
Speaker 1: in this instance, it is referring to abdulah Jaalan, right,
Speaker 1: that's his nickname. Leader Appo, lead and guide the process
Speaker 1: that has right to democratic politics be recognized and that solid,
Speaker 1: comprehensive legal guarantees be established. At this stage, it is
Speaker 1: essential that the Grand National Assembly of Turkey plays its
Speaker 1: role with historical responsibility. So a couple of things that
Speaker 1: are of note there. One is that the talking about
Speaker 1: this transition towards democracy or a brotherhood of nations, the
Speaker 1: talk about somewhere else right, brotherhood of people's it's occurring
Speaker 1: under the leadership and direction of Abdulla Jelan. If you
Speaker 1: are not familiar with Abdullah Ouscherlan, you can listen to
Speaker 1: Robert's theories. So the women's wards are the great job
Speaker 1: of explaining a lot of the stuff that we won't
Speaker 1: have time to get into today. Very briefly, Appo has
Speaker 1: been in Imrali and various other Turkish prisons since nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine. For long periods of that time, no one
Speaker 1: was able to see him. He was held completely in communicado.
Speaker 1: At times there were hundreds of troops guiding only him
Speaker 1: on this Turkish prison island. That is no longer a case. Right.
Speaker 1: He made this statement on the twenty seventh of February,
Speaker 1: and since then the Kurdish Freedom Movement has had access
Speaker 1: to Ouscherlan. Right. He actually made another statement on the
Speaker 1: eighteenth of May where he said, I quote, a new
Speaker 1: contract is needed based on the law of brotherhood. What
Speaker 1: we are doing represents a major paradigm shift. The nature
Speaker 1: of the Turkish Kurdish relationship is fundamentally different what has
Speaker 1: been broken in the bond of brotherhood. It seems like
Speaker 1: through the DEM Party right, which is a left leaning
Speaker 1: party in Turkey, which has supported the Kurdish cause and
Speaker 1: for a long time has served as the interlocutor between
Speaker 1: Turkey and the Kurdish Freedom movement. Through the DEM Party,
Speaker 1: they have access to Ouserland and they're able relatively frequently.
Speaker 1: It seems like these DEM Party officials to go to
Speaker 1: him rally and talk to him, and so they're talking
Speaker 1: about his leadership continuing through this democratic Transition right for
Speaker 1: the Curdish Freedom Movement. Jimil Bikes Jimil Bick again is
Speaker 1: the co chair of the casey K and institutions. Within
Speaker 1: the Kurdish Freedom Movement. There's a co chair system, right,
Speaker 1: which means so that a man and a woman share
Speaker 1: the chairmanship of an institution, such that patriarchal structures aren't
Speaker 1: replicated in the movement. That's the goal of the co
Speaker 1: chair system. He has a two part interview in A
Speaker 1: and F which I've linked again in the notes. He
Speaker 1: talked about how like the first role of the PKK,
Speaker 1: of the movement, even before it was called the PKK,
Speaker 1: was to quote unquote reveal the Kurdish quote unquote Kurdish question. Right,
Speaker 1: That's how they refer to it. Other times I'll talk
Speaker 1: about her Kurdish people were on their knees and like
Speaker 1: under the leadership of Augiland they stood up. They talk
Speaker 1: about also how Mount Ararat, Turkey has a plaque apparently
Speaker 1: where it says like here is buried the imaginary Kurdish nation,
Speaker 1: and like the Kurdish nation is certainly not buried anymore, right,
Speaker 1: Like it it's very active. Kurds are very politically empowered
Speaker 1: in two of the four countries where Kurds live, right,
Speaker 1: Like in Turkey they are to a lesser extent, but
Speaker 1: they're still present, right, No one could deny their presence.
Speaker 1: In Iran, it's still, I guess more difficult the time
Speaker 1: for the Kurdish freedom movement, Biack said. Within our initial paradigm,
Speaker 1: our first manifesto, the Kurdish identity, the Kurdish people and
Speaker 1: Kurdish society were formed. A society in love with freedom
Speaker 1: was formed. People emerged that would fight for freedom under
Speaker 1: any circumstances. On this basis, we are now developing a
Speaker 1: new paradigm, a second manifesto. This paradigm, this manifesto aimed
Speaker 1: to resolve not only the Kurdish question, but also the
Speaker 1: issues of the peoples of the Middle East and humanity
Speaker 1: as a whole. Rabert Apple, Rayber Smith's leader, Raybert Apple
Speaker 1: is no longer leading only the Kurdish people. He's leading
Speaker 1: all peoples of humanity. Yeah it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah. This is the sort of rehtoric we can
Speaker 1: expect from the get the k c K right, Like
Speaker 1: they're very dedicated to Julan as a leader. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and you know, Robert and I have both been trus Java.
Speaker 3: I've heard a lot of no life without our leader's
Speaker 3: speeches and seeing a lot of a lot of those
Speaker 3: pert as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Like you can't really go into a
Speaker 1: space you'll see other Like it's not just Ocherlan, right,
Speaker 1: You're going to see a wind I can, and you're
Speaker 1: going to see it's not like just a guy with
Speaker 1: a mustache. You're going to see women idolized in the
Speaker 1: movement too. But auscher Land to the greatest extent is
Speaker 1: like their dear leader figure. You can see his face
Speaker 1: all over Rashava and they're very dedicated to Ouscherlen's leadership.
Speaker 1: And like this change in structure does not change that,
Speaker 1: or this change it approach has not changed that. In fact,
Speaker 1: it underlines that, right, Like from the letter that Ouserlean
Speaker 1: wrote and he wrote letters to different parts of the
Speaker 1: Kurdish Freedom movement came this change, right, So it's still
Speaker 1: at the instruction of Ochelin, albeit with the consent of
Speaker 1: these delegates who went to this PKK congress right and voted.
Speaker 1: I've reached out to the k c K to ask
Speaker 1: for comment on like exactly what this means in terms
Speaker 1: of like to the casey k as I said, are
Speaker 1: in the mountains of southern Kurdistan now, and they have
Speaker 1: fought Turkey there for years. Right, We've covered that on
Speaker 1: this podcast. Northern Iraq, Southern Kerdistan, however you wish to
Speaker 1: call it like Turkey has been bombing They were bombing
Speaker 1: it last time I was there. I'm sure they were
Speaker 1: bombing it last time Robert was there. They've been bombing
Speaker 1: it ever since. And the villages that have really suffered
Speaker 1: as a result. Right, people have lost their children, they've
Speaker 1: lost their lands, they've often had their crops burned right
Speaker 1: by these bombs. So I'm interested to know that will
Speaker 1: the idea of the Kurdish Freedom Movement leaving the mountains
Speaker 1: there is I mean, it would be a hell of
Speaker 1: a site they've been in. They've been in those mountains
Speaker 1: for a long time. But I don't know what this
Speaker 1: means for the Kurdish Freedom Movement in southern Kurdistan. But
Speaker 1: I've asked. I don't know if this means that they
Speaker 1: will attempt like a straight up electoral strategy, right, or
Speaker 1: when Ogerland's asking for a new contract, right, like a
Speaker 1: new social contract that's how in Raja. But they literally
Speaker 1: have a social contract, right. The social contract is generally
Speaker 1: like a theoretical construct in most like neoliberal democracies, the
Speaker 1: idea that you and the state enter into an agreement
Speaker 1: whereby you give up some freedom and you lose some
Speaker 1: danger and the state give you some safety and it
Speaker 1: takes some of your freedom. In Raja, but the social
Speaker 1: contract is a real thing, right, Like, it's a thing
Speaker 1: that is formed in consultation with society. So when when
Speaker 1: we see APPO asking a bandon new contract, does that
Speaker 1: mean that they will engage like on the basis of
Speaker 1: a new Turkish constitution. I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 1: any of us have answers to these questions, and I
Speaker 1: imagine that they don't either. Write like they have decided
Speaker 1: to pursue this strategy of peace. They've decided that through
Speaker 1: their armed conflict, they were able to prove that they exist.
Speaker 1: And that's a phrase that specifically people have said to
Speaker 1: me in the Kurdish Freedom movement, like we had to
Speaker 1: pick up arms to pre that we exist, and now
Speaker 1: that there's no denying their existence, they can use different methods, right,
Speaker 1: Like they're put down their weapons and talk and established
Speaker 1: with Turkey how to coexist, having established that they exist
Speaker 1: through the armed struggle. So for them, this is like
Speaker 1: they're celebrating it, right. They'll draw the analogy very often
Speaker 1: to like Shinfein in Ireland, that's one that you're here
Speaker 1: pretty often, and that this is their Good Friday. Now.
Speaker 1: In the Good Friday Agreement, Britainer released people from prison.
Speaker 1: Number of very highly cherished, very highly respected members of
Speaker 1: the Curdish Freedom movement are still in prison. Of course,
Speaker 1: Oderlan being the most sort of widely loved and respected
Speaker 1: member of the Kurdish Freedom movement. I don't think we're
Speaker 1: seeing Osderlan come out of prison. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: a world in which Turkey would let that happen. But
Speaker 1: maybe we will see some other people released. Maybe we
Speaker 1: will see those people. I don't enter into electoral politics.
Speaker 1: Some of them have been in the struggle for fifty
Speaker 1: plus years, right, like fifty years living in the mountains
Speaker 1: and constantly being worried about being bombed. So it'll be
Speaker 1: fascinating to see how this this has been a long
Speaker 1: and bloody conflict. It has been going for longer than
Speaker 1: any of us have been alive. If the friends are happy,
Speaker 1: then I'm happy for them, right, And if peace is
Speaker 1: what they want and they can get away to continue,
Speaker 1: like General Bick says, like the people in love with freedom,
Speaker 1: Like if they can keep their freedom and they can
Speaker 1: do it without war, then I'm happy for them, because,
Speaker 1: like I've talked to a lot of Kurdish parents who
Speaker 1: have buried their children.
Speaker 3: God Almighty been to too many of the graveyards and
Speaker 3: northern Syria.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's little white graveyards with little children's faces.
Speaker 1: Like that will stay with me forever whatever stops that,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, Like if one of the things that
Speaker 1: kind of struck me when I was in Rajaba last
Speaker 1: time is that like death just falls from the night
Speaker 1: sky sometimes, yeah, and maybe maybe it's your baby, maybe
Speaker 1: it's you, maybe into your grandma, And it's a pretty
Speaker 1: horrible way to live. And going through that for your
Speaker 1: freedom is something very brave. And they have endured some
Speaker 1: of the worst conflict on the planet in the last
Speaker 1: few decades, right, They've fought some of the worst fucking
Speaker 1: people on the planet on one and if there is
Speaker 1: a way that the people of kurdisf Stan can enjoy peace,
Speaker 1: I want that for them because they've been at war
Speaker 1: for a very long time. Yep, hi, everyone, it's James,
Speaker 1: and which is adding this pick up to the episode.
Speaker 1: I was able to get some questions answered on behalf
Speaker 1: of the Kurdish Friedim movement, and I would just like
Speaker 1: to share those answers with you. So I asked if
Speaker 1: Aojulan was able to address the Congress. I'd previously been
Speaker 1: told he was. This is a response. Throughout the more
Speaker 1: than twenty six years that Kurdish People's Leader Abdula Ogelan
Speaker 1: has been held hostage in the prison island of him Rally,
Speaker 1: he has always found waves to convey his messages and
Speaker 1: perspectives to the Congress of the PKK that has taken place.
Speaker 1: So it was again regarding the twelfth Conggress of the PKK,
Speaker 1: which convened from May the fifth to May the seventh
Speaker 1: in the Free Mountains of Kurdistan. He was able to
Speaker 1: forward his ideas and analysis via the various delegations that
Speaker 1: have visited him throughout the last few months. I asked
Speaker 1: about Ojulan's call for a new social contract and they
Speaker 1: told me Curtish People's Leader ab Dela Ojuln's calls and
Speaker 1: the historic initiatives that he has taken do not imply
Speaker 1: that the Turkish State has adopted the same attitude or
Speaker 1: that the state has changed its approach. Kurdish People's leader
Speaker 1: abd Lor Aujulin is not simply hoping for a change
Speaker 1: of mentality in the state, but it's moving forward developing
Speaker 1: his project and thereby pulling the state along with him.
Speaker 1: What he is currently primarily concerned with is a redefining
Speaker 1: and reconstruction of the historical alliance of the Kurdish and
Speaker 1: Turkish people, which has been derailed during the past century.
Speaker 1: A long term democratic solution to the Kurdish question necessitates
Speaker 1: a recognition of the role of the Kurds in the
Speaker 1: establishment of development of the republic. Relations between the peoples
Speaker 1: must be brought back to the historical routes, so division
Speaker 1: cannot be realized Unilatterally, it lays in the nature of
Speaker 1: the way the struggle at the Kurdish People's lead ab
Speaker 1: de l Or and the PKK that when they want
Speaker 1: to achieve a solution to a specific issue, they initially
Speaker 1: create through struggle the necessary conditions and contexts for it.
Speaker 1: What Abdul ojuland does is to set the context and
Speaker 1: to encourage all related circles in Turkey to take upon
Speaker 1: their responsibility for our lasting peace. And then I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask about the people who were incarcerated and like
Speaker 1: the steps that they needed from the Turkish state in
Speaker 1: order for this peace process to continue.
Speaker 4: And this is what they said.
Speaker 1: A historic initiative was taken by Curdish People's Leader Abdula
Speaker 1: Aujilan and the PKK. First of all, there was the
Speaker 1: publication of the quote call for peace and democratic society
Speaker 1: and quote on February twenty sevenths. Then there was a
Speaker 1: declaration of the unilateral ceasefire on March first, and now
Speaker 1: there was the twelve PKK Congress May fifth to seventh
Speaker 1: was a decision to dissolve the PKK. All of those
Speaker 1: steps were unilateral steps that were not the result of
Speaker 1: negotiations with the state. So far, no official negotiation to
Speaker 1: take a place and oritenal verbal agreements have been reached.
Speaker 1: The steps taken were only a sign of goodwill and
Speaker 1: expression of seriousness about peace. Now it is upon the
Speaker 1: Turkish state to answer to this initiative and take the
Speaker 1: first practical legal steps. So far, all we have seen
Speaker 1: is empty rhetoric. For the process to actually unfold, Kurdish
Speaker 1: People's leader Abdullah Oujelan must first of all, regain his
Speaker 1: physical freedom and the conditions for him to work freely,
Speaker 1: healthily and securely must be guaranteed so that he can
Speaker 1: fulfill his role as a chief negotiator of the Kurdish people. Also,
Speaker 1: the constitutional reforms that grant the basic rights for the
Speaker 1: Kurds and recognize them as one of the primary constituents
Speaker 1: that a republic must take place.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: These are the first necessary steps. From there a peace
Speaker 1: process can unfold.
Speaker 4: If you're wondering about Rajava.
Speaker 1: Just to finish up, Muslumabdi made a statement Aslumbdi, leader
Speaker 1: of the Syrian Democratic Forces Right, sometimes called General muslium
Speaker 1: Hova Muslum depends who, depends what side of things you're on,
Speaker 1: I guess. Muslum Abdi made a statement congratulating the PKKA,
Speaker 1: saying he hoped to all parties supported the peace process.
Speaker 1: The sea it is still in clashes with remnants of
Speaker 1: the so called Islamic State and increasingly with Sunnis within
Speaker 1: the Syrian Revolution who are growing disheartened with what they
Speaker 1: see as al Shara's moderate turn right, the Damascus government
Speaker 1: being to live for some of these sunny groups, and
Speaker 1: so isis the Islamic State whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: Dash is using that as a chance to recruit people,
Speaker 1: and that is why we are seeing ongoing fighting. I
Speaker 1: literally I saw that they were They were burying one
Speaker 1: of their SDF fighters in Kamish Flow today. So unfortunately
Speaker 1: for the people of Fra Java, the killing and dying continues, which, yes,
Speaker 1: it's sad, yes, yeah, I want peace for my friends
Speaker 1: there and in Burma. Like yeah, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: Robert and I get paid to go to wars sometimes,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean we don't want a friends to live
Speaker 1: in peace.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I would like there to not be any more
Speaker 4: to go to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 4: I'll find something else to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck it, I'll go run with the bulls again.
Speaker 4: I went White Rottter rafting yesterday. It was nice. I
Speaker 4: could just do more of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I'll will climb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, all right, everybody, We're done for the day.
Speaker 3: Go hopefully not live in a war zone. But if
Speaker 3: you do, hopefully that stops so peace.
Speaker 2: It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 4: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2: You can now find sources for it could happen here
Speaker 2: listed directly in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.