1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Hey, please take a second and leave us a review 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to the podcast. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot. Hey, welcome to Sign Stuff or production 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. I'm Jorge cham and today we're answering 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: the question is it safe to edit your DNA? In 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: case you haven't been keeping up, humans now have the 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: ability to change their genes. You could, for example, take 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: a pill that will change the DNA of your eyes, 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: or your skin, or even your brain. And it's all 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: due to a technology called Crisper. But how far can 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: we take this technology? Is it safe or even ethical 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: to use. We're gonna talk to two geneticists who work 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: with Crisper, and we're gonna learn where it came from 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: and how it works. So start thinking about how you 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: would upgrade yourself and edit your genes as we answer 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: the question is it safe to edit your DNA? Hey? Everyone, 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but sometimes I feel like 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: the future arrived and I wasn't paying attention. I mean, 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: it seems like yesterday to me that we were able 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: to sequence the human genome, and now apparently we can 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: basically edit it as easily as editing a word. Document. 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: If you don't like the gene that you have inside 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: of you, you can just cut it and paste it. 24 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: So I had a lot of catching up to do. 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: And so before we get to the question of whether 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: it's safe to edit your DNA, we're gonna learn where 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: this technology came from and how it works, because to 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: understand its limits and what makes it potentially dangerous, we're 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: gonna eat both of those things. And the history of 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: how crisper came to be is actually kind of interesting. 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: It all started in a small lab in the south 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: of Spain that was looking at tiny creatures called Archaea. 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: To Phillisen. Here's Professor Louis Montealieu, a geneticist and the 34 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: deputy director of Spain International Center for Biotechnology in Madrid. Well, 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: thank you, doctor Montaliu for joining us. 36 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: Thank you. 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: So we have a very general audience who may not 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: have heard of crisper or even gene editing. So for 39 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: people who are not familiar, can you tell us about 40 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: the history of gene editing. When did this idea start 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: becoming a reality for people? 42 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, genomeediting is one of these revolutions you never know 43 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: that you will be able to winness so this are 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: tool that enable precise genetic modification of georgenome and as 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, any genome of any creature, any bacteria, 46 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: any plan and including human beings. At the end of 47 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: the previous century we had a first generation of geno 48 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: mediating Those were called megan nucleases that were not very versatile, 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: so they were not used much. Then we had two 50 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: different families of geneo mediting tools, and for some time 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: there were okay, but the real revolution came across when 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: we discover crispa. Crispa is an acronym for a cluster. 53 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 2: Let me see I have it here because we always say, 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: say chrispa, and we always forget this by is cluster 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: regularly interspace short palindromic rapids. 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: The acronym is too catchy, it's too easy. 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: It is very sexy exactly so it looks like what 58 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: you're having for breakfast, chrispher from Kellos and Crispa was invented, 59 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: by the way, by one the young microbiologist at the 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: University of Licante at the south of Spain. So the 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: origin of crispa, it's actually in Spain, and this is 62 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: normally forgotten. 63 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Okay, So to get to the origin of this revolutionary technology, 64 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: we have to go back even further than the turn 65 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: of the millennium. Back in nineteen ninety three, a young 66 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: researcher in Spain called Francis Mohika was interested in something 67 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: very few people thought was important and that was completely 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: unrelated to gene editing. He wanted to know how a 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: very primitive form of life called urkia, which are kin 70 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: of the cousins of bacteria, could survive in super salty 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: pools of water. So he did what everyone was doing 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties, which was to sequence the 73 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: DNA of these supers dirty or KaiA to see if 74 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: there were any clues there. But when he looked at 75 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: their DNA, he noticed something odd. 76 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: He saw repetitions the same sequence, same shot sequence, repeated 77 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: many times. That was his discovery in nineteen ninety three, 78 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: and this puzzled Mohika. 79 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: Why did these archaia have this stretch of genetic code 80 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: all over its DNA? And while you and I might 81 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: just shrug this off and move on with our lives, 82 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: Mohika spent the next ten years of his life trying 83 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: to figure it out. 84 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: And he did, and it took him about ten years 85 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: to discover by someow of two thousand and three that 86 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: this was the basis of an immune system, of a 87 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: defence system the bacterias were using to fight the viruses. 88 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: Yes, even bacteria and primitive organisms like archaea have to 89 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 1: fight viruses. What Uhika found was that the repeating sequence 90 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: of DNA was part of a pretty badass system for 91 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: killing viruses. Here's how it works. Whenever a virus attacks 92 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: the Arkaia and the Archaea survives, it grabs a piece 93 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: of the virus DNA and remembers it. It stores the 94 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: little virus sequence in its own DNA. 95 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: So the bacterias that have been visited by many viruses 96 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: over thousands or hundreds of millions of years, they had 97 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: bits and bits and bits of different viral genomes and 98 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: this was like a picture they kept from the virus. 99 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: So next time the same viruses wanted to infect this bacteria, 100 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: they say, hey, I know you, I know who you are, 101 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: and because I know who you are, I can fight 102 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 2: you and I can destroy your DNA. 103 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: So the Arkaea or bacteria remember every single virus they've 104 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: ever interacted with, and they lay a trap for them. 105 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: They create a molecule called CAS nine or CAST nine, 106 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: which is basically like a sharp DNA scissor, And to 107 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: each copy of this scissor they give it the memory 108 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: of each virus they've ever met. So now the archaea 109 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: has a bunch of scissors rooting around, each of them 110 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: keyed to a snippet of the DNA of every virus 111 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: it's ever encountered. You can start to see how this 112 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: could be used to cut your own DNA. 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: This is a very efficient system that was invented by bacterias. 114 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 2: This was invented probably more than three billion years ago, 115 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: so this is something that has been drunning for many years. 116 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: So next time a virus wants to insert the DNA, 117 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: if the virul is known by the lacteria, this will 118 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: trigger a signal and the signal will start cutting the 119 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: viral DNA. And if you cut the vital DNA, basically 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: you destroy They may that you destroy the intruth. 121 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: All right. This was a discovery that eventually led to Crisper. 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: These Archaia and bacteria basically figured out how to make 123 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: a DNA scissor, and they figured out how to key 124 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: the scissor to a particular sequence of DNA, So the 125 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: scissors are floating around looking for a particular stretch of DNA. 126 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: When it finds, it cuts the DNA, but only in 127 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the spot where it finds the sequence. Now, at first, 128 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: nobody thought this could be used at a DNA. It 129 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: was just some discovery about the immune system of bacteria, 130 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: and in fact, Mohika had trouble getting it polished. 131 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: He submitted this discovery to the top journal's Nature Science 132 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: Cell and they all rejected because what really they all 133 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: rejected because this was coming from Alicante, was not coming 134 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: from Stanford, from Yale, from Oxborg, Cambridge, so he didn't 135 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: include any kind of foreign researcher. It was him with 136 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: his students, and eventually he took him like two years, 137 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: and in two thousand and five he published his discovery 138 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: in a very historical journal, but kind of very far 139 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: away from the top journals. The journal was a journal 140 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: of molecular evolution, all. 141 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: Right, So Mohika publishes this in a not so prominent journal, 142 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: and that could have been the end of the story. 143 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: Maybe nobody would have read it or thought it could 144 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: be used for anything other than understanding how bacteria work. 145 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: But the two special people happened to read the paper 146 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: and they had an idea. 147 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 2: What happens since that that paper in two thousand and 148 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 2: five was read by many other people. Jennifer Downa and 149 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: Emmanuel Charpantier, and these two working independently, they met in 150 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: San Juana, Puerto Rico in spring of twenty and eleven 151 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: and they decided to collaborate because they both have read 152 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: Francis paper that was published like six years before, and 153 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: they had the idea to transform this defense system into 154 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: a genomediting tool, into a tool that you could use 155 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: to eraise and to replace letters so in order to 156 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: correct mutations. And that's exactly what they decided to do. 157 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 2: And it took them only one year to do this collaboration, 158 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: and that's the only time they collaborated. They never have 159 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: collaborated again. And they published this in Science and eight 160 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: years later, in October twenty twenty, they were awarded a 161 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: Nobel Prize of Chemistry. 162 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: And that's how we got Crisper. From a scientists getting 163 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: curious about how bacteria basically survive a cold, we get 164 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: to a Nobel price and a technology that might revel 165 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: uianized medicine, and even who we are. 166 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: And the beauty of this is that this was basic science. 167 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: So when he was discovering how bacteria fight viruses, nobody cared. 168 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: He said, what is this? Who is interested how the 169 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: bacteria decide to fight viruses? Well, what happens is that 170 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: the same mechanism that is used by bacteria to fight 171 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: viruses is what Manuel Chaptee and Jennifer Downer transformed into 172 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: a genomeedicing tour. Basic science became an application many years later, 173 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 2: I think, and this is the poetry behind these ideas, 174 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: because he was sharing his knowledge about what the bacterias 175 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: are capable of doing, and then that was illominating new 176 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: ideas in the mind of all the researchers many years later. 177 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: All right, when we come back, we're going to talk 178 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: to another scientist about how crisper actually works to edit 179 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: your DNA, what you can do with it, and then 180 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: later we'll talk about whether it's safe to edit your 181 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: DNA or even morally right, So stay with us. We'll 182 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back. We're talking about whether 183 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: it's safe to edit your DNA, and the main way 184 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: scientists and doctors are doing this is with a technology 185 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: called Crisper, which we learn is what most archaea and 186 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: about half of all bacteria use to defend themselves against viruses. 187 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: But around twenty twelve scientists figure it out it could 188 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: be used for gene editing. Now, the basic idea of 189 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: crisper is this, there's a special kind of molecule that 190 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: acts like a scissor to DNA, meaning it can cut 191 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: strands of DNA. But there's a way to attach as 192 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: nippit of genetic code to this scissor, so that the 193 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: scissor will only cut in the places where it sees 194 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: the nippet in the DNA strand. It's like imagine if 195 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: you have a book and you only wanted to cut 196 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: the book in places where it had the word hippopotamus 197 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: printed on it. Well, you would print the word hippopotamus 198 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: on a little strip of paper, and you'd attach this 199 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,479 Speaker 1: strip to a special kind of scissors, and the scissors 200 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: would check every word on the book, and whenever it 201 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: saw the word hippopotamus, it would cut the page, breaking 202 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: the flow of words. Now, the question is how do 203 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: you use this to edit human DNA and is it safe. 204 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: To help explain how crisper works, I reached out to 205 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: doctor Leanna Pelea, a researcher at the University of Zurich 206 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: and one of the co authors of a well cited 207 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: paper on Crisper titled Past, Present and Future of Crisper 208 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: Genome Editing Technologies. Thank you so much, doctor Pellia. 209 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 3: For Joe, thank you so much for having me. It's 210 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: really a pleasure. 211 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: According to doctor Peleia, in just the last ten or 212 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: twelve years, there have already been three generations of Crisper technologies, 213 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: and each one is more advanced than the last. It's 214 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: sort of like the iPhone. 215 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: Because I think Krisper twos are a bit like the iPhone. 216 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: It's always like a newer version. 217 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: Each one has a better camera. 218 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a better camera, better features, and it's always 219 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: getting better. It's very exciting. 220 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to talk about what each of these 221 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: generations that Chrisper can do, because that's going to help 222 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: us when we talk about what makes these technologies risky. 223 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Here's how doctor Pellia describes what we'll call Crisper one 224 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: point zero. 225 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: Yes, so the original Chrispher systems are just Cast nine 226 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: or Cast TWELVEA. They cut both strands of DNA, so 227 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 3: in human sales the DNA. We know it's like double stranded, 228 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 3: which means it has two strands of DNA, and these 229 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 3: enzyme cut both the top and the bottom strand of 230 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 3: the DNA. So by producing double strand break, meaning cutting 231 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: both strands of the DNA, that means that the cells 232 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: undergo damage into their DNA. So when there is a 233 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: double strand break, a dour gene of interest, the DNA 234 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: repair mechanism, that is something that the human cells have 235 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: by themselves, would fix the brake. And in fixing the brake, 236 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 3: it's going to introduce some small mutations. And in this 237 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: way we can disrupt the activity of human genes, which 238 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 3: is something that's very useful. 239 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: Okay, So Crisper one point zero is essentially a gene breaker. 240 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: Let's say you have a gene in your DNA that 241 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: has mutated or a gene that you inherited that is 242 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: giving you a disease. For example, sickle cell disease, which 243 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: affects about one hundred thousand people in the US, can 244 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: be traced to a single mutation in your DNA that 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: it causes red blood cells to have the wrong shape. 246 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: So to cure this disease, you want to take out 247 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: this gene, Well, you can do it with Crisper by 248 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: writing down this gene in that little piece of paper 249 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: I described before attaching it to the cutting molecule that 250 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: acts like a scissor, and then letting these scissors loose 251 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: on the patient's bone marrows themselves. The scissors will then 252 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: find this gene in the DNA sequence and cut the gene. Now, 253 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: human DNA has a self prepaired mechanism that would normally 254 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: fix this cut. But this mechanism is not perfect. Every 255 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: once in a while it makes a mistake. But if 256 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: the human body fixes the break, doesn't that defeat the 257 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: purpose of knocking out the gene. 258 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: So that's the thing. So the human body fixes the break, 259 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 3: but it doesn't fix it perfectly. Sometimes it could fix 260 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: it properly. But even if it's fixed properly, then it's 261 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 3: going to be cut again by another cast nine molecule 262 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: and cut again and again, so in the end it's 263 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: going to be probably mutated. So that would cause disruption 264 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: of the gene. 265 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: So Crisper will cut the DNA. Then the DNA will 266 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: repair itself, so Crisper will cut it again, and this 267 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: will repeat until the repair mechanism makes a mistake, and 268 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: so you'll end up with a different version of the gene. 269 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: And because it's different, it's not going to work. And 270 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: because it doesn't work, the patient is not going to 271 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: have the disease anymore. So that's level one of editing 272 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: your DNA. You can basically kill a gene and this 273 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: has been shown to work in people. After about nine 274 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: years of research and pre clinical trials and clinical studies, 275 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: the FDA in December twenty twenty three approved the use 276 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: of Crisper for treating sickle cell disease. Okay, now we 277 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: move on to Crisper two point zero. 278 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the second generation involved in engineer risper and 279 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: so and these enzyme is engineered so it cannot cut 280 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: both strands of DNA, but they can only cut one 281 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: of the DNA strands. Okay, And instead of making a 282 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: double strand DNA break, they make a single strand DNA break. 283 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: And this is less toxic than the double strand break. 284 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: I see, because the cell doesn't freak out as much. Yes, okay, 285 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: so then how does it work? It breaks one strand? 286 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it breaks one strand. But that's not all they do. 287 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: So they are also fews with an enzyme called damnas, 288 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 3: which could convert one DNA letter to another, So it 289 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 3: makes the letter change on the strand that it doesn't break. 290 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: Okay, this is where we get to actual gene editing. 291 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: The first of the second generation of Chrisper tools, called 292 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: base editing, goes in, breaks one strand of DNA and 293 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: then replaces one letter in your DNA sequence. So before 294 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: if your gene read something like ATTAGC, it might now 295 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: read adt cgc. Wow. So now this tool has two things, 296 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: the cutter and something that it replaces one letter. 297 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: Yes. So these are very powerful for maybe correcting mutations 298 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: that are just defecting one letter. 299 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Okay, that's base editing, and you said there was another one. 300 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 3: Yes, that's prime editing, where this technology makes also a 301 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 3: single strand break off the DNA and then it extends 302 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 3: one of the DNA strands with a new sequence of interest. 303 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 3: And depending on how these prime editors are engineered, one 304 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: could make up to maybe one hundred nucleotide modifications into 305 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 3: the genome. 306 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: And when you say one hundred nickelodies, you mean like 307 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: one hundred letters in your DNA. 308 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 3: One hundred letters of DNA. You could add up to 309 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: a hundred letters and also delete something in the ten 310 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: two hundred range. 311 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: All right, now we're getting even more advanced. What can 312 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: the second generation Crisper tools called prime editing, can go in, 313 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: cut your DNA and replace up to one hundred letters 314 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: in your DNA sequence, and then we get to Crisper 315 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: three point zero. 316 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: You know, with first generation and second generation, these are 317 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 3: very powerful, but the range of the mutations that they 318 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 3: can make are still relatively small. So if we imagine 319 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: different patients and they all have mutations in a certain gene, 320 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: maybe some patients would have a mutations more towards the 321 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: beginning of the gene, some patients more towards the end 322 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 3: of the gene, some patients more in the middle of 323 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 3: the gene. And with these first and second generation tools, 324 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: in general, we would need a different correction strategy for 325 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 3: different parts of a gene. But that's where the third 326 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 3: generation tools come into place, where you could have large 327 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: insertions into the genome and you could insert gene size 328 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 3: fragments where in theory you could replace the whole mutant 329 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: gene with the correct version. 330 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: So Crisper three point oh can replace whole genes at 331 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: a time, that's like being able to edit several pages 332 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: in a book and not just one letter or a paragraph. 333 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: And scientists are even working on Crisper four point zh. 334 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: Well not technically Crisper four point oh, because these new 335 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: tools use a different system than Crisper, but they work 336 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: the same way. 337 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: Then we have an emerging class of engineer gcombinaces. This 338 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: is a bit complicated, but these enzymes allow us to 339 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 3: make large deletions in the genome, large inversions, and large 340 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: insertions in the same time. I think at this point 341 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 3: we could make megabased mutations. 342 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Like a million letters. So we're at the point where 343 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: we can change millions of letters at a time. Yes, 344 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: So then what's the next step to change whole chromosomes 345 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and things like that? 346 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, Like we are waiting. I think 347 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 3: that would be quite interesting for sure. 348 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: Okay, well, we're at the stage where we're waiting for 349 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: Tim Cook to announce when the next generation of iPhones 350 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: are Yes, do you have to stand in line at 351 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: the Apple store for a really long time, I'll say, 352 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: or no. 353 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 3: Yes. 354 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: So basically we're almost at the point where we can 355 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: change anything about our DNA. You're not happy with the 356 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: genes you inherit it from your parents. You could, in theory, 357 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: just cut and pay some new genes. But now the 358 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: question is it safe to do this? What are the 359 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: risks of this technology, and maybe more important, is it 360 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: right to change your DNA? When we come back, we'll 361 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: dig into the risks of using Crisper and the ethics 362 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: of gene editing. Stay with us, you're listening to science stuff, 363 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: and we're back. We're talking about whether it's safe to 364 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: edit or change your DNA, which is a relatively new 365 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: question in the history of humanity. As we learn from 366 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: our experts, we are getting close to the point where 367 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: we can alter our genes in almost any way we want. 368 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: And all of this has only recently come up with 369 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: a new technology called Crisper. Now the question is is 370 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: it safe to change your DNA. Here's how doctor Juana 371 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: Pella answers that question. Now, maybe step me through it. 372 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: Let's say I want to have blue eyes. Okay, what 373 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: would be the first step? 374 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that we are there yet to 375 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: make you know, genome edits for these kind of features. 376 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: We can edit DNA, but this comes with certain limitations 377 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: and certain problems. That are actually associated with these Yeah, 378 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: we can edit DNA associated with certain diseases, but we 379 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 3: take this risk because the benefit of editing the DNA 380 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: outweighs the problems caused by this disease. And having blue eyes, 381 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. I think maybe easiest is 382 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 3: to get contact lenses that blue eyes. 383 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: That does sound easier, Yeah, it does. 384 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 3: I don't think that at the moment, like the benefits 385 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: of having blue eyes with gene editing would justify this. 386 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: What Tarcapilla is saying is that there are still risks 387 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: in editing your DNA, so at the moment, you probably 388 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: don't want to use it for something as trivial as 389 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: changing your eye color. Okay, what are these risks? Well, 390 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: there are three things that can go wrong when using crisper. 391 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: The first is that crisper might cut your DNA in 392 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: places that you don't want it to cut. I heard 393 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: that one of the risks in gene editing is that 394 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: the guide sequence is made to match a certain part 395 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: of your DNA, but it's possible that the same sequence 396 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: exists somewhere else in your DNA. 397 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 3: I think this is for sure one of the major 398 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 3: problems there might be similar sequences in other parts of 399 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 3: the genome. 400 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: Remember that the way crisper works is that you attach 401 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: a sequence of DNA letters to a molecular scissor and 402 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: the scissor will look through your DNA and where it 403 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: finds the sequence, it will make a cut. Well, that 404 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: sequence might be in more than one place in your DNA, 405 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: so the scissor might end up cutting your DNA in 406 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: places you didn't want it to cut. This is a problem, 407 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: although according to doctor Pelea, there are ways to avoid it, like, 408 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: for example, checking all three billion letters in your DNA 409 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: to make sure the sequence doesn't repeat. This is a 410 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: lot of work, but it's getting cheaper to do. 411 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 3: So you need to check it very carefully. Make sure 412 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 3: it's not somewhere else. Make sure that the sequence even 413 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 3: if if you change of your nucleotizing these twenty nuclodized sequence, 414 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: it's also not somewhere else, or other sequences that are 415 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 3: very similar with these sequence are also not present into 416 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 3: the genome. 417 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: The second risk in editing your DNA is that sometimes 418 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: crisper in the different ways to use crisper don't always 419 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: make the edit that you want. Sometimes it makes a 420 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: mistake Okay, so you're saying the second risk is that 421 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't edit it the way you want it 422 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 1: to edit. Yes, that happens, It could happen. 423 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And even if it doesn't happen often, when you 424 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 3: edit a population of sales, and even if let's say 425 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 3: one percent or less than one percent has an edits 426 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 3: that you don't want, let's say that edit makes the 427 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 3: sales grow better or gives them growth advantage, this very 428 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 3: rare population could actually take over. 429 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: What doctor Pillar is saying is that even if mistakes 430 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: happen very rarely with Crisper, those stakes could be crucial. 431 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: It might result in mutant cells that take over or 432 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: have bad effects on your health. Then, the last risk 433 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: in editing your genes is that the human body is 434 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: really complicated. Changing a gene might have consequences you didn't expect. 435 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: There might be other consequences in the cell that we 436 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 3: still don't understand fully how the affects later generations of cells, 437 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 3: for example, like how the selle might get stressed, or 438 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 3: how this could affect the future of the cell. Or 439 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 3: if we make an edit, would the cell behave exactly 440 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 3: like a normal cell. There are many things that we 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 3: know about, but there are also many things that we 442 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 3: don't know that we don't know. It's always good to 443 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 3: research these from every possible avenue. 444 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: So those are the risks in editing your DNA. Now, 445 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: a question I was also interested in is whether it's 446 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: right to edit your DNA? What are the ethics of 447 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: gene editing? As it turns out, this is also something 448 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: that your Louis Want to You has written about. When 449 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: I heard about the ethics of gene editing, what it 450 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: brought to mind was the question should we be editing 451 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: our genes? Like, is it something that we should be 452 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: doing philosophically? Is it something that seems right to you, 453 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: to me, to the average person. Does it seem right 454 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: to change we are in this way? Is that something 455 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: that's in the discussion. Oh? 456 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I'll tell you there are different opinions on this. 457 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: So there are some people that consider that the human 458 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: genome as a psychred thing, so something that should not 459 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 2: be touched. We should not be messing around with our geno. 460 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 2: There are all the opinions in which they say, well, 461 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: if we find a way to cure the congenital disease 462 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: that is affecting this person, we have an ethical imperative. 463 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: If we can't solve the question, we should do this. 464 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: What if there's a third category of people who just 465 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: want edit their genes to be thin or to be smarter. 466 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 2: Oh well, this is the other aspect, which is enhancement. 467 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: So you want to enhance your gena, you want to 468 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: see better, you want to be thinner, you want to 469 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 2: be taller. 470 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: So there are people that might reject gene editing out 471 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: of principle, others who say it's a no brainer in 472 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: the case of serious diseases, and there are others who 473 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: might use it to change who they are. For example, 474 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: in sports, you might change a gene so your body 475 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: makes more glucose so you can run faster or longer. 476 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: Or you might change a gene to have better lung 477 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: capacity or even better eyesight. 478 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: All this is called enhancement, and this is very controversial. 479 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: Well, what's the ethical argument against that. 480 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: The ethic or undergoment against do this? You increasing the difference, 481 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: you're increasing inequity, you increasing injustice. And basically you have 482 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: to want that who is able to go down this road, 483 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: who is want to be paying for them, Those that 484 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: are wealthy, those that are wealthy are the ones that 485 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: can be afforded the cost of such a treatment. 486 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: So the argument against is that it gives people an 487 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: unfair advantage and that will probably reject it, maybe the 488 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: same way that we reject steroids and sports. 489 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like dopy, So this is biodopy. 490 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: If I edit my genes, is it possible for me 491 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: to edit them back? 492 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it shouldn't be a problem. Modifying a 493 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: gene can be in both directions. You can clean a mutation, 494 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 2: you can rain certain mutation I see, and actually, if 495 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: you think it carefully, this is also a biological weapon 496 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: because if you're distributing this and you're killing some important genes, 497 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: you might be affecting the health of your enemy. So 498 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: this is why there is also some biosafety concerns and 499 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: by your security concerns regarding CRISPA, because eventually you can 500 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: spray nanoparticles with CRISPA that will be inactivating a gene 501 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: that is fundamental for cell cycle regulation until the body 502 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: will stop functioning. 503 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: Wow, you can use it as a weapon exactly. 504 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: We always talk about anapetics. Now we started talking about enhancement. 505 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: But there is also the evil side and the evil 506 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: side is that you can use it as a web. 507 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: So this is definitely uncharted territory for human ethics. Okay, 508 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: to summarize, I asked our experts how they would answer 509 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: the main question of the episode. If I asked you 510 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: is it safe to edit your DNA? How would you 511 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: answer that question? 512 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: I would say it depends. I think it depends on 513 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 3: the reasons why you would want to edit your DNA. 514 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 3: And if the reason is because of a rare disease 515 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 3: or because the editor would really benefit the quality of life, 516 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 3: then we bring a better life. Then I think there 517 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 3: are instances where this might be a good idea. 518 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: It's worth for those people that have no cure, have 519 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 2: no read man, and they might be dying or they 520 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: might be suffering. But if it's not for a CBA disease, 521 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: I will think it twice. Because the technique at the 522 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: current moment is not one hundred percent safe. 523 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 3: It's always that the risk of editing should be smaller 524 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: than the risk of not editing. For these two makes sense. 525 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: All right, Well, if you do end up editing your genes, 526 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: don't forget to make a backup, you know, just in case. 527 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, see you next time you've been 528 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: listening to Science Stuff. Production of iHeartRadio written and produced 529 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: by me or Hm, credited by Rose Seguda, Executive producer 530 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer and mixer. Kasey Pegram Tacapillia 531 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: participating in this interviewing in a personal capacity. 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