1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's time yet again when we 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: hear from our favorite part of the show, you, specifically 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: you and your fellow listeners. We've got We've got quite 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: a ride here. We've been receiving UM some incredible correspondence 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: both at our phone number one eight three three s 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: T d W y T, some fantastic emails to conspiracy 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com and UM. We've had a 16 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: lot of people reaching out to us to follow up 17 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: on some specific episodes in some some really interesting ways, 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: including UM. Some stories about Canada that we do want 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: to warn you in advance may not be suitable for 20 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: all our audience members, including a great story about Carrie 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Grant and found somewhat inspiring and a story from Banks 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Banks you called us in response to the military entertainment complex, 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: and I think that was for our crew recording that 24 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: that episode was pretty illuminating because I think we all 25 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: kind of knew what was going on, but I don't 26 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: were you guys aware of the extent of it before 27 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: we dove into it, not to the detail right, Like 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: you said, the wider picture, I think is assumed a lot, 29 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: but you isn't backed up with facts and in the 30 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: minutia very often. And we got a lot of people 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: who route in regarding specifically our episode on the military 32 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: entertainment complex because it's it's just as active as the 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: military industrial complex, but it's not acknowledged near as openly. 34 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: And the you know, the weirdest thing that I thought 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: would be a good a good level center here is 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: I looked at the budget of the US military, the 37 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: official figure, which is probably smaller than the actual money spent. 38 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: It's over nine hundred and eighty billion dollars, which means 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: that if we if the military was a country, it's 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: budget would be higher that it would have the let 41 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,559 Speaker 1: me see, let me think it would have the seventeen 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: highest GDP in the world. Just above to Key and 43 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: just a little bit under Indonesia, so it's it's very 44 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: much a country of its own and it has the 45 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: powers the countries have. So Banks, you opened a door 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: for us when you called in and told us this. Hey, guys, 47 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: my name is Banks. I am ex military, and I 48 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: was telling about the episode on the Military Entertainment Complex. 49 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: While I enjoyed the episode, you guys missed out on 50 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: one critical aspect of it, and that is the military 51 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: integration with the UH professional sports and how it trickled 52 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: down to college and high school and so forth. I 53 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: thought that was a good opportunity to um explain how 54 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: the military guy involved with sports in the first place. 55 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: Thank you now jealous to you guys, Banks, thank you 56 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: so much for calling in. Uh several people had raised 57 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: the same point, and UH, you know, originally, when we 58 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,279 Speaker 1: were diving into the story of the military Entertainment Complex, 59 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 1: we knew that this kind of felt like a multipart 60 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: episode and we stayed away from the world of sports. 61 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: But you are absolutely right. This does deserve an explanation 62 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, how if you travel anywhere 63 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: else in the world outside of the US, you'll notice 64 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: that there aren't pharmaceutical commercials on television. That's because they're 65 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: illegal and much of the rest of the world. And 66 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: it's weird that we consider it normal. It's also kind 67 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: of weird that we consider it normal to have the 68 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: military involved so heavily in the world of professional sports. Uh. 69 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: The Pentagon has between two thousand, twelve and two thousand 70 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: fift spent tens of millions of dollars fifty three million 71 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: dollars just just in that short span of years to 72 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: pay these different uh, these different teams, and these these 73 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: different owners and these different associations to present the military 74 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 1: in a patriotic light that helps for domestic support and 75 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: of course helps for recruitment. I think one of the 76 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: biggest surprises for a lot of people is, you know, 77 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: if you've ever had a soccer game, or you know 78 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: football to the rest of the world, or you know, 79 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: a baseball game, whatever, it's not surprising to see someone 80 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: be honored for their military service. Right like, there will 81 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: be a pause, maybe it's like a the beginning of 82 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: the game or something. They say, we're gonna pause to 83 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: acknowledge our veterans in the crowd, or this this specific 84 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: person is returning from this this conflict zone, and it's 85 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: seems is very you know, sincere, and it seems very patriotic. 86 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: Those groups are being paid to do this. This is 87 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: a paid ad, that's what's happening. Did you guys know 88 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: that because I was not aware of For a long time, 89 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: I had no idea. I didn't understan I didn't even 90 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: realize that there was a connection between, you know, the 91 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: military and sports. It makes perfect sense, but it just 92 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: never occurred to me. But yeah, it's badcasting for me, 93 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: at least because it's been a long time since I've 94 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: seen any professional sporting match. I haven't seen a I 95 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: haven't seen a Super Bowl, and I don't even know 96 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: how many years I think. I I watch it usually 97 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: a little bit before and after the halftime show because 98 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: the halftime shows are kind of fun. But yeah, same. 99 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: I watched the one that Atlanta was so brutally slaughtered 100 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: and a handful of years ago, and they they did 101 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: so well in the first half, but then they just 102 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: got destroyed. But I did watch that entire game and 103 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: in a very busy bar with a lot of fans 104 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: that were sorely disappointed. I dig the energy, but man, yeah, 105 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: the Falcons. Still too soon for me to talk about it, right, um? Yeah, 106 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: So whether or not you are a fan of sports, 107 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: right um? And a lot of people, of course haven't 108 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: been able to see the games they wish they could 109 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: have seen due to the pandemic. Whether or not you're 110 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: a fan, though, what you realize when you ask yourself 111 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: how does the military interact with the world of sports, 112 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: is that very quickly the answer becomes um complicated. Senators 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: John McCain and Jeff Flake were able to shed some 114 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: light on this story back in when they introduced this concept. 115 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: And for some people this is perfectly fine. It doesn't 116 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: matter that it's a paid ad that's purporting to be 117 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: a sincere display of patriotism. But for other people, that 118 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: deceptiveness is almost offensive at times. And that's that's really 119 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: what the relationship between the military entertainment complex and professional 120 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: sports could best be termed as unfortunately paid patriotism. It's 121 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: not an anomalous pattern, right PEPSI will pay millions of 122 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: dollars to have an ad in the Super Bowl, So 123 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: the question is why should the rules be different for 124 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. There's an argument there that I think is 125 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: is similar to our argument about the the cons of 126 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: the military entertainment complex when it's applied to children, right 127 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: like you are. You're a kid who loves basketball right 128 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: and watching basketball games, and you dream of being the 129 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: next Lebron or the next Michael Jordan's. And like many 130 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: kids who try to go into a career in basketball, uh, 131 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: the the rate of attrition is so high that you 132 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: don't you don't, unfortunately, get to be that basketball superstar. 133 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: But you have grown up seeing the military featured as 134 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: one of the best jobs in the planet. Are you 135 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,359 Speaker 1: therefore more likely as a consequence of that long term advertising? 136 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: Are you therefore more likely to join the military? I 137 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: think it's a valid question to ask. If you study this, 138 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: what you'll notice is for folks who were around before 139 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, this relationship increased by in order 140 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: of magnitude after the events of September eleven and now 141 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: it's kind of weird not to see these sorts of 142 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: displays if you go to uh particular sports game, and 143 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: sports games of course in the US are already you know, 144 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: they're very patriotic. You seeing the national anthem, even even 145 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: though objectively, I'll say it, the national anthem is not 146 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: that great of a song. It's not that creat of 147 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: a song. No, it definitely isn't. It's got some mixed 148 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: messages in there, but I mean it's true like football, 149 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: I think, well baseball for in particular, those two really 150 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: do feel like these very nationalistic sports. You know, they 151 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: are these kind of they're associated with America and our culture. Um. 152 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: And you know, soccer is obviously making a big splash 153 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: here and now, but that's still I think largely thought 154 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: of as like more of a European or a sport 155 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: you know, from somewhere else. So this can be sticky, right, 156 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: because we're talking about very deep emotional ties that a 157 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: lot of people have. You know, what's your favorite game 158 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: in the world, it's you may have served in the 159 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: military or know someone who has. So it may be 160 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: surprising for a lot of us today to realize some 161 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: of the strongest objectors to this relationship are like banks 162 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: veterans themselves. There there's a great piece on w b 163 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: R about veterans speaking out against what they see as 164 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: the military the militarization of sports. And I'd like to 165 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: read a quote from a guy named Bill as Store. 166 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: He's a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, and he has 167 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: written about this multiple times. Really bothers him. He's describing 168 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: how he saw these jets right that that flew over 169 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: in a in an aerial parade to like during a 170 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: during a stadium game. And here's what he said. He said, 171 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: I think at first, there's a sort of thrilling feeling. 172 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm like all the other fans, A big plane goes overhead. Wow, 173 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of all inspiring. But at the same time, 174 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: to me, he says, it's not something that I see 175 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: should be flying over a sports stadium before a baseball 176 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: game or a football game. You know, these are weapons 177 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: of death. They may be required, but they certainly shouldn't 178 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: be celebrated and applauded. What do you guys think about that? Yeah, 179 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: it's like the idea of like maybe I don't think 180 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: people make this connection often enough perhaps, but it's the 181 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: idea of like using tanks and a parade. You know, 182 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: it's a show of military might. It's a flex it's 183 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: like look at us and fear us, kind of even 184 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: in a weird way to your own people. I don't know, 185 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's so much psychology going on there because 186 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: it isn't just a flex outwardly, it's a flex inwardly, right, 187 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: It's to make the viewer feel as though there's power 188 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: because it is about the power of the individual somehow, 189 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: Like if that's that's the rhetoric you know of the 190 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: army or something, and then you're talking about adding tanks 191 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: to the situation, these weapons of destruction and death. Um, 192 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: you're showing like what power and individual can wield and 193 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: then what those individuals together can do. That's a really 194 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: good point matter. There's a lot of symbolism in there 195 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: where it is a show of force both internally and externally, 196 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: I think. But but you're combining it with especially if 197 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: you're doing American football, you know, basketball, uh, trying to 198 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: think even hockey, any any of these sports that are 199 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: are popular in the US. You're even sometimes baseball. You're 200 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: talking about physics, like physical feats of strength that are 201 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: one of the main things that lead a team to victory. 202 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: And an incredibly militarized formation for example, in like football, 203 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: where it's all about like the front lines and advancing. 204 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: It really is like the closest thing to playing war 205 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: that you could imagine, kind of like on that grid. Yeah, 206 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: I wrote. I wrote a paper about that a number 207 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: of years ago, which was follow up to the thing 208 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: a Road, asking whether war is and economic necessity? It's 209 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: to what degree do sports replace the practice of war, 210 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: of tribalistic war in particular, think about this, so I 211 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: would just say, ben it. Certainly in this case, it's 212 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: using it's it's doing what you're saying, like replacing it, 213 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: but then also using it to strengthen the other one psychologically, 214 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: I think, I think, yeah, absolutely, And you know, I'm 215 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: gonna be honest, folks, there's some displays like this that 216 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: I absolutely love. Like when the Blue Angels took the 217 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: training exercise the lady had scheduled to fly over Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, 218 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: I went to the local park. I wanted to see 219 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: what the business was, you know what I mean, in 220 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: a very real way. I own part of those I 221 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: sure as sure as hell paid for him, you know, 222 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: just just dusting us with those chem trails. You know. 223 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: Never mind I'm joking, but yeah, No, it's it's a 224 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: beautiful thing to behold, for sure, until you dig down 225 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: into it. And I don't think I think we've seen 226 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: it so often that we're almost numb to the point 227 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: that Matt's making about how it is this kind of 228 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: show for us, we see it as kind of, oh, 229 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: it's just a neat trick. It's like look at him 230 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: new the loop de loop or like, uh whatever. It 231 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: doesn't really feel like that. Um, that kind of iron 232 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: fisted flex that we're talking about normalized just like pharmaceutical commercials. Uh. 233 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: And of course Lake and McCain are two more conservative senators, 234 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: so they're big objection to pay patriot is um was 235 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: the use of tax dollars, and they felt like these 236 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: contracts were somewhat deceptive two people. But you are right, Banks, 237 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: it is not just a big business, but it's a 238 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: growing business. And for anyone who would like to learn 239 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: more about this, you can read the report by McCain 240 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: and Flake called Tackling Paid Patriotism. It's free to read online. 241 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: And I'm very interested to hear in to hear everybody's 242 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: remarks regarding the power of symbolism at play here, which 243 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: is very real and profound, and what if any effect 244 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: this may have. Is this like, is this a domestic 245 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: hearts and minds operation? I would argue yes. But thank 246 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: you to Banks, thank you to everybody who wrote into 247 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: us on this topic. We want to hear your stories 248 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: about the military and sports uh and will tell you 249 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: how to reach us again at the end of today's show. 250 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: But now pause for a word from our sponsor who 251 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: maybe the Atlanta Falcons. We don't know, and we'll be 252 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: back with more listener mail. And we're back, and now 253 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,119 Speaker 1: we are turning away from sports and the Blue Angels 254 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: to an email written by I think it's Tim. It's 255 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: t y M. I'm gonna say tim. Cool spelling of Tim. 256 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: I like it. If it was time would probably be 257 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: t I Amy. I don't know, that'd be weird. I'd 258 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: love to meet a person named time spelled like the 259 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: word time, the concept of time. It's vagabond TI vagabond. 260 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: I love that word. But it could be vagabond time. 261 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: It could be vagabond. That's kind of fun. Is that 262 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: like Eastern Never mind, I'm on vagabond time, time, thinking 263 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: like vagabond time. If your clock is said to that, 264 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: does that mean doesn't work in a house anyway? Whatever? Moving? 265 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: Oh nice, No, they're not all going to be worth it. 266 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: We're working live, so all right, Yes, So what's going 267 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: on is vagumon Tim sent us an email and it 268 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: goes like this. It's extended and there's a lot of 269 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: information in here. There are a couple of links that 270 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: we may reference as we're going through this, but for 271 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: the most part, I'm just I want to read from 272 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: this message because it is fantastic, So thank you. Oh 273 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: and before we get into the email, just a quick 274 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: disclaimer here. Ben said there was gonna be something in 275 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: this episode that may not be suitable for everyone. Well, 276 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: this is probably that section. This is the contents of 277 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: this email are dealing with quite a bit of death. 278 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: So that's what we'll be talking about for the next 279 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: few minutes. If you don't want to do that, maybe 280 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: fast forward about fifteen minutes from now, maybe twenty will 281 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: hopefully be fifteen. Are you ready? Here we go, Tim 282 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: says hi Ben mattin Noel and the Gang. This is 283 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: Vagabond Tim and Vancouver, Canada. I wanted to fill you 284 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: in on a few things that I've observed over the 285 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: past few years and tied together some threads that you've 286 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: touched on. I'm from Eastern Canada and been in British 287 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: Columbia for the past three years. I can't help but 288 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: notice my dog's barking? What those are your dogs? Matt. 289 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: I can't help but notice there's something strange in the air. Here. 290 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: For such a prosperous and beautiful place, there's an unusual 291 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: amount of drugs, gangs, dogs, addictions, random violence, mental health issues, 292 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: and generally crazy people. I like to call it the 293 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: Florida of Canada. I put dogs in there, he didn't. 294 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: There's many things I would like to discuss with you, 295 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: but for today, I want to highlight a series of 296 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: unexplained occurrences. Six men have disappeared in British Columbia's southern 297 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: interior between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, so slist some 298 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: of these off. In October seventeen, there was a man 299 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: named Luke Neville. His burned out van was discovered on 300 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: a forest service road. A cadaver dogs search of the 301 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: area turned up thing, and police say they consider this 302 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: disappearance suspicious, as you do when there's a burned out vehicle. 303 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: Then February we've got Ryan Stuka. I hope I'm doing 304 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: that right. Um. He was twenty years old and disappeared 305 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: after leaving a house party at the sun Peaks Ski resort. Um, 306 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: which is near Camloops. The illustrious Royal Canadian Mounted Police 307 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: and other volunteers searched for him, did a massive search 308 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: party um through the village and all of the surrounding 309 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: trails and forests, but they didn't find anything um as 310 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: to his whereabouts. Fast forward a little less than a 311 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: year January nineteen, Ben Tyger, a working cowboy, vanishes from 312 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: the Merit area after riding into the hills to look 313 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: for cattle. His abandoned horse was found fully saddled on 314 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: a forest service road northwest of the city. Two days later. 315 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: An extensive search by volunteers and police on foot, corseback, 316 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: in helicopters and on snowmobiles found no trace. The pattern continues, 317 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: my goodness, okay. Then in July of nineteen not you know, 318 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: this is a little you know. Seven months six seven 319 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: months afterwards, man named Ryan who was thirty eight, Ryan 320 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: P and a man named Ben Skurr who was thirty seven. 321 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: They had a jeep Cherokee, which again was found abandoned, 322 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: this time not necessarily burned out, but it was in 323 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: a wooded area between a couple of places, the Kamloop's 324 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: Place and Merit, a month later, their bodies were found 325 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: in a rural area north of Spence's Bridge, which is 326 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: eighty kilometers away from where their vehicle was Again, the 327 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: Royal Canadian Mounted Police said there was quote criminal behavior 328 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: associated with the case, but there was really no other 329 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: details that were there to be shared and there was 330 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: no cause of death that's been made public at least. 331 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: Then we've got November twenty six year old by the 332 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: name of Marshall uh iwasa UM. His GMC pickup truck 333 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: was found torched as well by hikers on a one 334 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: of these very remote forest service roads, and that's near Darcy, 335 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: British Columbia. UM he was last seen visiting a storage 336 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: locker in left Bridge, which is his hometown, just a 337 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: week earlier. And the investigation apparently continues uh in Left 338 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: Bridge by the Left Bridge Police, but they say that 339 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: they have not found any evidence thus far of foul play. 340 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: So Tim goes on to say five incidents, six individuals, 341 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: two bodies, two burned out vehicles for maybe six vanished 342 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: with no trace, all unsolved and police are denying any 343 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: links between any of these instances of disappearances and deaths. 344 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: Uh I don't know it seems a little weird. Tim says, 345 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: Apparently the the law enforcement there is keeping a tight 346 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: lid on a lot of the details, probably because they're 347 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: active investigations associated with each one of these instances. Uh. 348 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,120 Speaker 1: Tim says he would love to see a follow up 349 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: on this and get some broader attention to it. And 350 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: he does know that there's been some reporting by the 351 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: CBC on this, and he's he's correct. There's a story 352 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: from CBC called six men missing in the same region 353 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: of British Columbia's southern Interior, but no links in cases, 354 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: police say. And you can read that right now if 355 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: you go, if you want to go into the full 356 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: details at this moment, you can see at least on 357 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: that article that there are there's all kinds of postage 358 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: being being put out for the missing people. There are 359 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, large like roads signs essentially that are raising 360 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: awareness of some of the missing persons there. There's certainly 361 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: interested by the families and probably many people who live 362 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: in that immediate area. Yeah, you know, I paid great 363 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: attention to this letter as well, which we we got 364 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: just before we came into record earlier today. And vagabond ten. 365 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: One thing that I thought was very well written. Here 366 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: is that you're you're acknowledging, you're acknowledging the facts. And 367 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: you go on later to say that you caught a 368 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: really strange vibe in this area when you were living 369 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: around places, and Tim told us that you had been 370 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: moved to rights when you were just walking earlier outside 371 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: a normal every day John's, and then you saw yet 372 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: another missing person's poster. Skeptics are going to say that, hey, 373 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: you guys are maybe you and the reporters are unintentionally 374 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: cherry picking right going to These specific cases remain unexplained officially, 375 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: but we we just did the cursory look at the 376 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: population of British Columbia's interior. It's not a huge population 377 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: like you would see in a metropolis. It's around nine 378 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: hundred sixty one thousand, one hundred and fifty five people. 379 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: So for this many disappearances to occur, they're all in 380 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: the same rough geographical region. Um for them to happen 381 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: in relatively quick succession like this, with the population this small, 382 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: that is anomalous and it bears scrutiny, I would argue, yeah, 383 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: I think so too. The missing person poster that vagabond 384 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Tim encountered was Trina Hunt, and you can read stories 385 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: about her that are being published as recently as March 386 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: seventeenth of this year. UM where you can read on 387 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: Tri City News a couple other places specifically about what 388 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: happened or what seems to have happened, because there's not 389 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: much known about what happened to Trina. But she was 390 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: last seen on January eight in Heritage Mountain, that's where 391 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: she lives. UM, I don't know. It's it's a disturbing case. 392 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: Anytime someone goes missing, it's disturbing in the case of 393 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: this area that you've you know, pointed out, like you said, 394 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: been these cases that don't seem to be connected, but 395 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: there are similarities. Um. It's it's weird and it's troubling, 396 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: and I think it's definitely worth our time. Later, and 397 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: we didn't even mention. Vague Tim sent us all kinds 398 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: of information, including stuff on the Highway of Tears, including 399 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: a whole other story about these two teenagers, this crazy 400 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: story about two teenagers that went on a homicide spree 401 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: while driving across Canada. Intense stuff. And I think maybe 402 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: Vague Tim, what you were doing is maybe connecting those 403 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: teens or maybe something similar to the other disappearances and homicides. 404 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It seems like maybe that's where we're 405 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: going with this, but Um, you're definitely right that there's 406 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: weird stuff going on, and we we very very much 407 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: appreciate you reaching out. Yeah, agreed, Thanks to Vagabond Tim, 408 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: and thanks to all the many listeners are northern neighbors 409 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: who have written to us about this. It is surprising 410 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: that this is not making more news in the US, 411 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. M I'm gonna end with 412 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: what Tim said. He says, an old criminology professor once 413 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: told me that crime increases as you go west and 414 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: north in Canada. Now I'm starting to see it and 415 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: to put the pieces together, I've lived all over this country, 416 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: including east and west coast Ontario and the northern territories. 417 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: If you need any info, and he signed it Vagabond 418 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: Tim war time. It's time and we'll take some. Tim 419 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: to pause for a word from our sponsors, will be 420 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: back with one more story from you, and we're back. Um. 421 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: And this Um story came to us through a response 422 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: to the episode we did with kesha Um talking about 423 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: psychedelics and you sing them to, you know, cure what 424 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: ails you and psychologically really and how that's really kind 425 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: of coming around again as a viable form of treatment 426 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: for things like PTSD and addiction and um depression. And 427 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: we talked a lot about that, and there were a 428 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: lot of things that we covered, and there were a 429 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: lot of things that we didn't cover, And and listener 430 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: the Brockness Monster left us a voicemail pointing out one 431 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: of those stories that we missed. That is an absolute gem. Hello, 432 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: this is a Broacknest Monster from Data ohile and listening 433 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: to your podcast now about psychedelics, and we've kind of 434 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: done a few shows about this. I gotta tell you, 435 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a little surprised that you guys haven't looked 436 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: at carry Grant's LSD treatments from like the fifties and 437 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: early sixties. I think he was treated for I don't 438 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: think it was alcoholism. I think he had like a 439 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: really messed op relationship with his father. He tripped like 440 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: five thousand times um all with like a a I 441 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: don't know a psychiatrist or what, but apparently it really 442 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: helped him, uh get the grips with the relationship with 443 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: his father and helped him be a healthier, health happier 444 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: human being than us to do a lot of treatments, 445 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: UH treat alcoholism with lsty that that it's very effective 446 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: the war and draws everything. So anyway, UM, thinkure, thank 447 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: you to the Brockness Monster. It's a great nickname to 448 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: give yourself. UM, and I think we can call you 449 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: that without blowing up your spot. Um. Great story. It's 450 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: a great story, and it's one that I had no 451 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: idea about. And you think of Carrie Grant as this 452 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: classic old Hollywood actor and also kind of like he's 453 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: an amazing actor, but you kind of think him as 454 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: part of the old Guarden, not you know, the new 455 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: like more like easy writer Jack Nicholson's and you know, 456 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: Kurt Russles of the world and all that. I just 457 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: think of him as being very you know, he's more 458 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: of a martini and a cigarette guy than a joint 459 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: and a tab of acid guy. But it turns out, 460 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, he was those things. And there was a 461 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: period um, like Brockness Monster said in the fifties, late 462 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: fifties and early sixties when the discovery of LSD, you 463 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: not to mention things like MK culture and all of that, 464 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: but it was kind of a legit thought of a 465 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: legitimate treatment. The mk Ultra stuff is terrible and terrifying. 466 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: You should listen to Operation Midnight Climax and many old 467 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: episodes of stuff that I I want you to know to 468 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: hear more about that. But there was sort of like 469 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: a silver lining to all of that horror and that 470 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: it was being used to treat people like Carry Grant. 471 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: Carry Grant was in fact an alcoholic and he had 472 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: a very depressing childhood. I didn't realize this. He's English. 473 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: Maybe that's really obvious to like old movie bus, but 474 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: I just I just didn't know that because you think 475 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: of him, he's got this this weird accent. It's like 476 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: almost like a mid Atlantic thing. But he apparently put 477 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: that on and kind of created this persona his real 478 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: name growing up. It's about as British as they come. 479 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: Sounds like a character of a Charles Dickens novel, Archibald Leech, 480 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: kind of a villain kind of name out of a 481 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens novel. But he he was like recruited and 482 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: as a circus performer when he was a kid, and 483 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: his mom took off and he thought that she was dead, 484 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: but found out later in life that she wasn't and 485 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: that she had actually been committed to a sanitarium by 486 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: his horrible father and anyway, just very dark upbringing. But 487 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: then he, you know, moved to America and and kind 488 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: of rebranded himself as Carrie Grant and changed the way 489 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: talked UM and was a very famous actor, you know 490 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: before this period when he was taking LSD UM. But 491 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: between the years of nineteen sixty one, he under the 492 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: supervision of a psychiatrist, took LSD every week and it 493 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: wasn't quite five thousand times that he tripped UM, but 494 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: it was at the very least a hundred. And he 495 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,239 Speaker 1: this was before there was this stigma on LSD as 496 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: being this kind of bellweather of like counterculture and stuff, 497 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: and you know that a lot and the sand between 498 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: like the beat Nicks and the hippies and kind of 499 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: like the old guard like I was saying I was 500 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: associated Carry Grant with. But the time he just would 501 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: not stop talking about it. He apparently, you know, um 502 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: found some kind of amazing enlightenment and had been very 503 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 1: instant and secure leading up to that and kind of 504 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: not knowing who he was felt like he had these 505 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: two identities, you know, Archie Archibald or Archie Leach and 506 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: Carry Grant. And he spoke about this openly. He even 507 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: like he also was very um kind of uh, what's 508 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: they're looking for? Reclusive before this to this period where 509 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: he wouldn't really do interviews and didn't appear in public much. 510 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, during this period he 511 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: had this burst of like, I got to tell the world, 512 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: and he reached out to a Good Housekeeping magazine, which 513 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: was apparently the news breaking publication of choice at the time, 514 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: and told them all about how LSD changed his life 515 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: and you know, helped him kick the booze and all 516 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: of that and just kind of made him in general 517 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: a happier person. Um. And it's just fascinating well to 518 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: to to hear this from him, where he was so 519 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: outspoken about it. Um. He there's a film about it 520 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: called Becoming Carrie Grant directed by Mark Kaidel. I believe 521 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: is how you pronounced it. And he says in this 522 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: Guardian article he claimed he was saved by LSD. You 523 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: have to remember that Carry was a private man. He 524 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: rarely gave interviews and yet after taking acid he personally 525 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: contacted Good Housekeeping magazine and said, I want to tell 526 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: the world about this. It has changed my life. Everyone's 527 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: got to take it. So um, yeah, he became You know, 528 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: there are other famous people of the time that took it, uh, 529 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: directors like Sidney lum May has one that's referenced in 530 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: this Guardian article, and others that we know about now, 531 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: but they weren't out there, like you know, evangelizing for 532 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: the stuff like carry Grant was um. And then inevitably 533 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: that counterculture kind of demonization period kicked in LSD was 534 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: made illegal, and um, he kind of backed away from 535 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: the limelight in terms of, like, you know, his position 536 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: on it being this amazing wonder drug, but presumably he 537 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: still continued to take get at something. Um. But yeah, 538 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't. I think this is a really cool, little 539 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: kind of forgotten part of old Hollywood history. And it 540 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: does tail left tails perfectly into this you know, new 541 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: conversation about let's get back to using this stuff to 542 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: treat people with these conditions. It really does. And there's 543 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: another quote that's right above the quote that you read 544 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: there now, I know the one that that I love 545 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: it very much. It's silly I don't know, we don't know. 546 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: He says, you gotta are you gonna make me do it? Well, yeah, 547 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: why don't you do it? It's it's I believe this 548 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: is in Carrie's words. No, it's a quote from one 549 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: it's because one of these article, one of these interviews 550 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: he gave. It is I know it's silly, but it's um, 551 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: it's just it's it's interesting. Well he say, just says 552 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: quote in one LSD dream, which seems like kind of 553 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: a you know, old old school way of referring to it. 554 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: I imagine myself as a giant penis. I wish I 555 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: could do character. I imagine myself as a giant penis 556 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: launching off from Earth like a spaceship. I'm not doing 557 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: it right. That's more of a I don't know what 558 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: that is. May let me know. Rate me on my 559 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: carry grant. But yeah, and it's it's crazy. At the time, 560 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: like in the UK, there was this place called Powick 561 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: Hospital that funded an LSD clinic um and that was 562 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: like a viable form of treatment in the UK in particular, 563 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: and the psychiatrist um in question that the treated grant 564 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: was Dr Mortimer Hartman UM and that was at the 565 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills. And we know that when 566 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: Grant died in six he donated quite a bit of 567 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: money to Hartman. But he was not in any way 568 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: unique other than the fact that he was a world 569 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: famous actor and so maybe had a little more agency 570 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: of privilege to speak at length about these things. Um. 571 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,479 Speaker 1: But I believe it was from that same article, which 572 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: I had also read, which fantastic work by Brooks. I 573 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: hope I'm pronouncing your name right. Mr Brooks said that 574 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: there were over forty thousand people who had received this 575 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: treatment between just a period of like fifteen years before 576 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: the mid sixties. And mid sixties is when people started saying, Hey, 577 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: this is hippie dippie stuff. Uh history does you know? 578 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: Rhyme more often than it repeats. So I predict that 579 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: we're going to see more increasingly open conversations about this 580 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: from people who feel like they have benefited from psychedelic treatment, 581 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: which has also gone a long way. But as I 582 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: said in the many other episodes when we examined this stuff, 583 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: the stigmatization of these substances in a very real way 584 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: crippled the progress of research. You know what, I mean, 585 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: it's time it. We could have been so much further ahead. 586 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: I think this is a great story, Brock, and thanks 587 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: for bringing it to our attention. I really do too, 588 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: and I want to see the documentary very much, Becoming 589 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: Carry Grants from Um, directed by Mark kaidell Um. And yeah, 590 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: I have not actually hadn't heard of it until I 591 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: read this article and that Guardian piece that we're talking about, 592 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: which is I think the best one on this that 593 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: we found is called Carry Grant How a hundred acid 594 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: trips in Tinseltown changed my life. It's really interesting. So 595 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: I never would have I never would have come upon 596 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: this and I never would have known unless you pointing 597 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: us to it. So thanks, yeah, so thanks so much, Brock, 598 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,479 Speaker 1: and thanks so much Banks and everybody else who wrote 599 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: in about the military entertainment complex and sports. We're gonna 600 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: get some stories about that. One. That's right and Giant 601 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: thanks to Vagabond Tim Time, two great nicknames today. So hey, 602 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: if you want to be like all of these fantastic people, 603 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: you can write to us, you can call us, you 604 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: can find us on social. There's so many ways. Let's 605 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: start with social. You can reach us at Twitter and Facebook. 606 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: Where we are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram, we are conspiracy 607 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: Stuff Show. If you want to check out our Facebook 608 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: page where you can hang out with all the other 609 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: conspiracy realists who've already joined up, have conversations, post dank memes, 610 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: do whatever you wanna do. It's your space as long 611 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: as the mods say it's okay. Check it out. We 612 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: are here's where it gets crazy on the Facebook page. 613 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that stuff, you can 614 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: find us via your telephones phone function. But is that 615 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: like an app or something? That's right, Yeah, the oldest 616 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: function on the phone, right, it's still kicking. Yeah. We uh, 617 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Dial us up 618 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: one eight three three s T d W y t 619 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: K three minutes. Those minutes are yours. You'll hear a voicemail, 620 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: We'll hear a weird deep tone and then, uh, you know, 621 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: off to the races. Give yourself kick asked nickname, We 622 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: love them. Let us know if we can use your 623 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: name voice on air. Tell us what's on your mind, 624 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: whether it's reacting this stuff we discussed today, or even 625 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: more importantly, personally, my opinion proposing new topics that you 626 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: think your fellow listeners would enjoy. If your story is 627 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: more than three minutes, then please don't edit yourself. Please 628 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: don't censor yourself. That goes against the mission of this show. Instead, 629 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: right to us, tell us the whole thing, give us 630 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: the whole nine um like vagabond Tim did or vagabond 631 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: tie because we take the time to read every one. 632 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: So you might be saying, well, how the heck do 633 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: I get this letter to you? It's very simple, using 634 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: another piece of technology that is also like the phone, 635 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: kind of old. Now you can send us a good 636 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at i heeart 637 00:38:51,320 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: radio dot com. M m hmmm, stuff they don't want 638 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. 639 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 640 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 641 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.