1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And actually, no, 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: you're not Robert Lamb. Your DJ Radio tropism. Oh yeah, 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: and uh and what your dad today? Oh, it would 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: clearly be DJ cryptococcus. We'll get to that later. So 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about radio activity and radio 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: friendly organisms. But to start us off, I wanted to 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: take us back to something that happened a couple of 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: weeks ago. So we sometimes go on Facebook Live, the 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: live streaming media service, and uh talk about in Aine 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: garbage movie trailers and we're not in Maine garbage important 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: B movie uh and sometimes non B movie trailers and 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: discuss the way that they tie into our discussions here 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: on the podcast. The topics that we cover, well, there's 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: nothing wrong within a garbage that wasn't inherently a pejorative. 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I love in a garbage, right, So we 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: went on Facebook Live and we were talking about giant 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: crab movies, a a film genre that I think is 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: severely under realized. It has a lot of potential. There's 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: just not enough there. The young aspiring filmmakers out there 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: need to get on the giant crab movie train. Yeah. 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: It's as easy as buying a real crab or catching 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: one on the beach and filming it right, put it 25 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: in close up the little people. Yeah, it's amazing. Uh. 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: And one of the movies we talked about was Attack 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: of the Crab Monsters. So this was released in nineteen 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: fifty seven, directed by as I would call him the 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: crud Wizard, Roger Corman, and it is a plot you've 30 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: heard a million times before, as scientists go to an 31 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: island in the Pacific where there has been atomic testing 32 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: and eventually they have to square off against a couple 33 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: of giant, intelligent, sort of psychic crabs that project their 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: voices into your dreams. Stuff. It's it's odd. It's a 35 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: script by Charles B. Griffith, who is a regular Corman writer. 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: He's the same guy who wrote who wrote Little Shop 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: of Horrors. Uh, not of This Earth and one of 38 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: my favorites it Conquered the World, where Earth is attacked 39 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: by an art of choke with an underbyte. Yeah, and 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: of course you end up with a long The best 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: part of that movie is you have lengthy scenes in 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: which Levan Cliff and Peter Graves discuss that the philosophical 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: quandaries related to alien invasion? What does freedom really mean? 44 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: So I I I have a special place in my 45 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: heart for that film too. Anyway, In an interview, Griffith, 46 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: the screenwriter of Attack of the Crab Monsters, tells the 47 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: story about where this screenplay came from. And he says, 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: Roger Corman came to him and said, I want to 49 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: make a picture called Attack of the Giant Crabs. Obviously 50 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: the name evolved a little, and then Griffith says, I asked, 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: does it have to be atomic radiation? And Corman responded yes. 52 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: And you know, that's kind of the way it was 53 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: in the sci fi and horror of the nineteen fifties 54 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: we went through the atomic age. It was we we 55 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: of course, had just had a World war that was 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: concluded with the use of atomic weapons, and it was 57 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: almost like if your Corman thinking about Griffith coming to 58 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: you saying does it have to be atomic radiation? Again, 59 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: it's like, why are you even asking? Of course, this 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: movie has to be about atomic radiation making animals bigger, 61 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: more powerful, sometimes more intelligent, more rampage e versions of 62 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: those same animals. Well, I love what you just said, 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: because that, I mean, that's essentially what atomic power did 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: for the human race, right once a society acquired it. Yeah, 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: we became this this, this thing that was more rampage e, 66 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: more dangerous. The movies are always uh, the the initial 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: uh sounding chamber for for cultural anxiety, and so it's 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: you can think of it as as Oppenheimer uh invoking 69 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: his famous uh uh quote from Hindu scripture and sing 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: is saying, now I have become death, the destroyer of worlds. 71 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: Imagine him speaking that into the amplifier of of B 72 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: movie culture, and what you get are all of these 73 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: atomic of super creatures and atomic Superman spiraling out into 74 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: comic book characters, etcetera. As this this anxiety works its 75 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: way through our fiction. Now, I know you're like, you're 76 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: sort of joking and sort of serious, and I want 77 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: to agree with you on both halves, especially the sort 78 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: of serious part. I totally agree that B movies are 79 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: often where we work out are sort of taboo anxieties 80 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: and uh, and it's where the conscience of the common 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: person comes through into the arts and entertainment. But another 82 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: fun fact act I cannot leave this subject without divulging, 83 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: is that Griffith thinks, he says in the same interview 84 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: that in in some scenes in the movie, the person 85 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: operating the giant crab monster prop may have been Jack 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: Nicholson because he was working on sets there at the time. Man. 87 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: That that's a great fact. That's magical to think of. Yeah, 88 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: especially look up this crab and think it could be 89 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: Jack under there. Yeah, we we gotta give you. How 90 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: often do you encounter that with us? Someone in a 91 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: monster suit turns out to be an important, acclaimed actor 92 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: later on. But then, of course, sometimes the monster itself 93 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: becomes a character. Now, obviously there are not a whole 94 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 1: franchise of giant crab movies. Uh, the the giant crab 95 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: monsters never caught on as a beloved folk hero, but 96 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: some giant radioactive monsters do. Yeah. The best example of 97 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: that would be, of course, so Gohedra Godzilla, who continues 98 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: to rampage through our our cinematic history here. Now, is 99 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: it officially part of the Godzilla cannon that Godzilla was 100 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: created by atomic radiation? Yes? Yeah, I mean that's when 101 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: you go back to the original Godzilla. That's the the 102 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: idea that uh and and and it's really kind of 103 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: beautiful in its own way, right. I mean this is where, 104 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: in the same way that all these other monsters managed 105 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: to emerge from, you know, largely Western contemplations of the 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: atomic age, Godzilla is a frightening manifestation of of the 107 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: Japanese contemplation of the atomic age. And and it really 108 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: shines through in that first film because that first film 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: is a spark darker. Yeah, it's a dark film. Uh, 110 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: it just becomes campy over time as people and grow 111 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: used to the idea of a giant rampaging lizard creature, 112 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: and when the giant rampaging lizard creature becomes the hero 113 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: rather than the villain. Yes, you know, I I watched 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: part of the shin Godzilla, the new Godzilla film out 115 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: of Japan on an airplane recently, and I need to 116 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: sit down and watch it in in you know, in 117 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: complete form, because it seems like there are a lot 118 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: of scenes of experts setting around tables discussing the political 119 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: ramifications of combating Godzilla, which I love films like that 120 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: they take the monster or whatever, the sort of fantastical 121 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: element and just really get down and start teasing it 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: apart with the real world factors. But of course, more recently, 123 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: more recently, for most American audiences, we had this um, 124 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: this this new treatment of Godzilla that to introduce some 125 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: additional radioactive elements, the idea that that Godzilla and his 126 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 1: fellow massive unidentified terrestrial organisms or mudos were radiation dependent organisms, uh, 127 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: radiation feeding leftovers from a primal terrestrial era in which 128 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: there was a lot more radioactivity on the Earth and 129 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: organisms had evolved to depend upon it. Now, that could 130 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: play into some of the science we actually discussed later 131 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: in this episode, So keep that in mind. Yes, Now, 132 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: of course there's plenty of people who would argue that, oh, 133 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: you can't really nail Godzilla down. He's he's he can't 134 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: throw too much science at godzilla is even though we 135 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: can't stop doing it. It's more like a scaly zeus. Yeah. Yeah. 136 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: In fact, there's a wonderful quote that I ran across. 137 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: This is from film producer A show Go, Tomi Yama, 138 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: and it was a two thousand four interview with the 139 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: now defunct Penny Blood dot com. But you can find 140 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: archive versions of this, and he said this is a translation. 141 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: I believe Godzilla is closer to being a god. He's 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: not just a living animal or a monster. The fact 143 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: is that humans cannot control or judge the gods. They 144 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: have their own will, they have their own way. In Japan, 145 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: there are many gods. There is a god of destruction. 146 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: He totally destroys everything, and then there is a rebirth, 147 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: something new and fresh can begin. Godzilla is closer to 148 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: being that kind of god. Now this brings us to 149 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: the Godzilla youthfro dilemma. Is the righteous righteous because it's 150 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: loved by Godzilla? Or is it righteous because never mind? Uh? Yeah, 151 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: what is love by Godzilla? It is that. There's an 152 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: answer to that, but it changes, I think from film 153 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: to film. It's obviously rampage. Yeah, I mean, it's easier 154 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: to nail down gammera. What does gammera love the children? Right? 155 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: And and that's why I think I'm ultimately more drawn 156 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: to Gammera. Okay, we shouldn't look at some other radiation 157 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: eating organisms that are either powered up by radiation or 158 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: or derived their their everyday energy from it. All right, Well, 159 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: Christian and I recently did an episode dealing with some 160 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: of the science of the expanse. And if you're watching 161 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: that show, or if you've read the first book, you 162 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: know that there's this thing called the protomolecule that shows 163 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: up and it's an extrasolar biolot biology reassembling system that 164 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: enters the picture. And it's as shown that I and 165 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: razing radiation is an energy source to this thing. So 166 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: I'll say no more about that without getting into into spoilers. 167 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, radiation eating organisms of of of a sort 168 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: do play into that series. Now, I see you have 169 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: a note about it here. I know the Ghouls and Fallout, 170 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: yeah series they get they get love from the radioactive energy. Yeah, 171 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: and even and also the main character, at least in 172 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: the main you know recent games, uh, the character that 173 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: you play with, the Wanderer, the vault Walker or whatever 174 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: the descriptions are that they throw out for him. You 175 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: can pick up perks where the radiation heals you and 176 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: you kind of like feed off the radiation. So this 177 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: is a path you can choose to take in the 178 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: game to say, I want to live on radiation. Yeah, 179 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: I want to be able to drink radioactive water, which 180 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: one of the things I love about the recent Fallowout 181 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: games is they'll be these these moments where you're standing 182 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: like ankle deep in maybe not full blown radioactive water, 183 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: but bad water that you should not drink, like you're 184 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: standing in a sewer, and you look down and you go, oh, 185 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: there's an AMMO clip down there. I better pick it up. 186 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: But you accidentally click on the water next to the 187 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: clip instead of the clip itself, and so you reach 188 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: down with your hand and you get a big scoop 189 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: full of the water and you drink it. And yeah, 190 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: because I love I love the idea of that happening 191 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: where it's, oh, crap, I just meant to pick up 192 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: the clip and I just drank radioactive water instead. Such 193 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: such a duface. So those are just a few radiation 194 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: eating radiation absorbing creatures to consider, but fiction is full 195 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: of many examples of radioactive mutants, and giant mutant animals 196 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: are a big one. So we we've talked about all 197 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: a number of these examples before. You mentioned the crabs already, 198 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: but it brings up another B movie icon. The director 199 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: of of real one of my my favorite films from 200 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: this era, the amazing Colossal Man. Right, I haven't seen 201 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: this one still, this is the one where there is 202 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: a man who gets some kind of radiation and he 203 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: grows huge and it of course it's directed by Birt 204 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: Eye Gordon, Mr Big himself, who mostly made movies about 205 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: things getting big, about big spiders, big dinosaurs. Uh, there's 206 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: one movie of his that made a great Mystery Science 207 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: Theater three thousand episode called The Beginning of the End, 208 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: where it explores the sort of downstream food ecosystem effects 209 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: of radiation radiation gigantism, where this scientist makes some giant 210 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: vegetables but I think he I may be remembering this wrong, 211 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: but I think he injects them with radiation with a needle. 212 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: I apologize if I've mischaracterized there, but that's my memory. 213 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: And then some bugs eat the radioactively injected fruits and 214 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: vegetables or grains, and then the bug has become huge 215 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: and attack Chicago. He Berney Gordon must have had either 216 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: a needle phobia or a needle fetish because because there 217 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: are some fabulous needle scenes in The Amazing Colossal Man 218 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, yeah, there he like they have bring 219 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: a huge needle to inject a huge man with and 220 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: then it is a wonderful scene. It's in the trailers 221 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: and all where he picks it up and he kind 222 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: of looked at Glenn Manning, the amazing glossal man does this, 223 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: picks this this uh, this hypodermic needle up and it's 224 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: it's regular size to him, and then he just with 225 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: with with expert precision. He just throws it like a 226 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: dart down at one of these soldiers who just pricked 227 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: him with it, and it just skewers him. It's a 228 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: wonderful scene, but one of cinema's finest moments. Now, in 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: addition to these examples, and you have legions of other 230 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: mutant humanoids from telepathic nu nutants in beneath the planets, 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: beneath the planet of the Apes, which I'd love to 232 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: see those guys uh explored in some of these reboots 233 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: that are coming out for the Apes movies. These are 234 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: the ones that worship a giant bomb. They like sing 235 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: hymns to the to the atomic bomb. Yeah yeah, yeah, 236 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: they worship with the atomic bomb, and they they have 237 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: crazy mental powers. You also have the Chud's from Chud, 238 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: the cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers. Um. We've mentioned the ghouls 239 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: of Fallout. You've got the mutants of Total Recall. Nice, Yeah, 240 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: they were. They were a lot of fun. You have 241 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: the mutants of the Hills have Eyes not so much fun. 242 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: Not not so fun pretty much an any installment of that. 243 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: They are generally not that fun, but but certainly a 244 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: good B movie example as well. And uh, of course, 245 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: let's not forget atomic superheroes. That is a huge area 246 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: of of fictional exploration here, right, you've got the Hulk. 247 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: So the official Marvel approved origin blurb I looked it 248 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: up on Marvel dot com for the Hulk reads as follows. 249 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: Caught in a blast of gamma radiation, alliant scientist Bruce 250 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: Banner is cursed to transform in times of stress into 251 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: the living engine of destruction known as the Incredible Hulk. 252 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: So got that straight right. The origin story is gamma radiation, 253 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: then a curse. The curse is that when he gets 254 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: his briefs in a twist, he changes colors, becomes huge, strong, invincible, 255 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: rampage e. Now obviously this is not I don't need 256 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: to tell you, but this is not what happens to 257 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: a human who's caught in a blast of gamma radiation. 258 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: We know this in theory and principle but even if 259 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: we didn't, we would know it in practice because this 260 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: is literally actually happened. I want to talk about one 261 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: example of a quote brilliant scientist caught in a blast 262 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: of hard radiation which included gamma rays among other types 263 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: of radiation, and that man was Louis Slotan, a Canadian 264 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: physicist working at the United States Atomic Testing Facility at 265 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: Los Alamos, New Mexico, go UH shortly after the conclusion 266 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: of the Second World War. So on May one, nineteen six, 267 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: at about three in the afternoon, Slotan and colleagues were 268 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: performing a nuclear criticality test on a core of plutonium. 269 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: And the way a test like this worked is that 270 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: you would take a mass of physile material and then 271 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: bring it almost to the point of going critical by 272 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: nearly covering it with a beryllium cap. Now what would 273 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: that do well. The reason a substance like plutonium is 274 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: dangerous is that the heavy atoms inside it are unstable 275 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: and they start to split apart and shoot neutrons off 276 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: in every direction, releasing a lot of energy in the process. 277 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: This is a nuclear fission. By covering a hemisphere of 278 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: physical plutonium with this thick reflective material like beryllium. You 279 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: reflect those neutrons back into the plutonium where they hit 280 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,479 Speaker 1: other atomic nuclei, knocked them apart, producing more free neutrons, 281 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: releasing more energy. And as this happens more and more 282 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: you come closer to producing a runaway criticality event. The 283 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: physicist Richard Feynman, upon hearing this type of experiment described 284 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: in the forties, compared that compared it to quote tickling 285 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: the tale of a sleeping dragon. Now that's because the 286 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: dragon presumably breathes fire when it wakes up, and about 287 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: the same as true of a plutonium core. Now, this 288 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: beryllium cap, called a tamper, it was supposed to be 289 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: kept from going completely closed, from completely covering the core. 290 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: As long as there was a gap through which some 291 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: of the neutrons could still fly out and it wasn't 292 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: completely covered, the dragon would not fully wake up. But 293 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: on the day I mentioned earlier in ninety six, while 294 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: Slotan was performing this experiment holding the tamper cap open 295 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: with a screwdriver, an accident happened. His hand slipped, the 296 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: screwdriver came out of place, and the tamper briefly fell 297 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: completely over the plutonium mass, causing it to go critical. 298 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: People in the room described that they saw a flash 299 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: of blue light, which was the secondary result of the 300 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: air itself being ionized by a blast of hard radiation, 301 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: and they also felt this wave of heat wash over them, 302 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: so their primary radiation exposure lasted really only a split 303 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: second before Slotan was able to knock the tamper off. 304 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: He sort of reached out and knocked it away, and 305 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: he stopped the chain reaction, but he had already in 306 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: that tiny split second, received more than enough radiation to 307 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: kill him. Uh. There's a good short New Yorker article 308 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: about the history of this accident, and it reports that 309 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: quote Slotan's whole body dose was around twenty one RIM 310 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: of neutrons, gamma rays, and X rays. Five hundred RIM 311 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: is usually fatal for humans, so this was an incredibly 312 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: powerful close up door. Right after the exposure, he went 313 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: outside and vomited, and then the hand closest to the 314 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: core that he'd been holding right up next to the 315 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: plutonium turned blue developed large blisters. Uh, and he started 316 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: experiencing systemic effects that developed for the next nine days 317 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: before he died. UM. He was in continuously deteriorating health. 318 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: His white cell count dropped, his temperature and pulse became erratic. 319 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: He had digestive distress. According to one medical professional who 320 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: was trying to explain the nature of his his wounds, 321 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: his internal radiation burns. They described it as quote a 322 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: three dimensional sunburn if you can imagine being sunburned on 323 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: the inside that is rough. Now here's a really crazy fact. 324 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: This was not even the first time this had happened 325 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: at this lab. Just months before, a Los Alamos worker 326 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: named Harry dag Lean Jr. Had Been killed by radiation 327 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: exposure in a similar criticality experiment. Not exactly the same 328 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: they were using some like a tungsten carbide bricks I think, 329 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: but by the exact same piece of plutonium, which thereafter 330 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: got its nickname, quote the demon core. And of course 331 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: Slotan is not the only person to suffer death from 332 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: radiation exposure. You know, victims of the atomic bombing in 333 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: Japan at the close of World War two tragically suffered 334 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: many of the same effects. But what's sort of morbidly 335 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: fascinating about the cases of Slotan and Daglian is that 336 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: there's no explosion, no fire, there's no uh conventional physical destruction, 337 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: just the pure isolated, almost instantaneous dose of hard radiation 338 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: that makes every tissue in your body start to fail. 339 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: There's almost a magical element to it. Yeah, in that 340 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: with it would being devoid of the explosion and the 341 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: sort of the the traditional um atrobutes of warfare. Yeah, 342 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: it does. It does have this kind of magical feel 343 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: to it because you can't see the mechanism. Uh. And 344 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: it kills you slowly then, because now everything in your 345 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: body is irreparably damaged, but you can't see exactly what happened. 346 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: So I think maybe we should take a quick break 347 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: and when we come back we can talk about radiation. 348 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: We we know now obviously it doesn't actually make you bigger, stronger, 349 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: more intelligent, at least for large complex mammals and most 350 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: other organisms. But if it does kill, how does it kill? 351 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: Why does it cause this problem? All right, we're back, 352 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: so let's take a moment to just really talk about 353 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: what radiation is. We've been, we've been, we've been talking 354 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: about it, and I think most of our listeners have 355 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: a you know, a reasonable working knowledge of radiation. But 356 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: I think it's it's a it's a good opportunity to 357 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: just stop and try and boil it all down here. 358 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: So it's important to note that our lives are filled 359 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: with radiation, and much of it is harmless, and much 360 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: of it is natural, not all radiations of the apocalyptic variety. 361 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: Soil and underground gas is exposed us to radiation, and 362 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: we're also exposed to cosmic radiation from the sun and 363 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: outer space. It's mostly mostly all right, mostly fine if 364 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: the doses are right and uh, and you're dealing with this, 365 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: this natural mode of radiation, well, I guess it depends 366 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: on your definition of fine. But you might say it's unavoidable. 367 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: That's part of being. And with all radiation, you know, 368 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: it's going to depend on the type of radiation, the 369 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: dosage level, and how long you're exposed to it. Because 370 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: obviously radiation is coming from the sun. You can get 371 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: too much sun, and they're varying their varying definitions of 372 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: too much sun. There's too much sun over the course 373 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: of a lifetime. There's too much sun over the course 374 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: of a day at the beach, right, But that's a 375 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: good illustration of the different kinds of risks that are 376 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: posed by radiation. For example, too much on it one 377 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: day at the beach, you risk the sort of the 378 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: slotan version, the acute radiation poisoning from the sun versus 379 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: too much sun over a lifetime will tend to cause 380 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: things like skin cancer, right, and not enough exposure to 381 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: the sun can leave you with the vitamin D deficiency. 382 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: So you know, there's a balance in all in all 383 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: things here. Uh. And one of the key aspects we'll 384 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: get back to two is that just as radiation is 385 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: around us, radiation has always been around us. Radiation has 386 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: been there in the background of varying degrees throughout the 387 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: evolution of life on our planets. So it's not like 388 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: it's not like radiation. Even though radiation as this theme 389 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: as this uh, this fear and this anxiety really arrived 390 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, uh, you know, and we see 391 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: it echoed in these B movies. Radiation did not arrive 392 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: on the scene. Then, radiation had always been with us. Now, 393 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: in terms of radiation, the stems from human inventions. That 394 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: that's that's a different area here. So we're when this 395 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: we're talking about medical procedures. We're talking about television's, cell phones, 396 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: microwave ovens. Uh. And again it all depends on dosage. 397 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: The strength to type, the length of exposure. Electromagnetic radiation 398 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: is merely a stream of photons traveling in waves. So 399 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: we have you know, low energy photons such as radio waves, 400 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: and these spend These are just waves. They behave like waves. 401 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: And while we also have high energy photons such as 402 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: X rays, those behave more like particles. Uh So in 403 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: this we're getting into this idea of the electromagnetic spectrum, 404 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, radio, microwaves, infrared, visible light, ultra violet X rays. 405 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: Although we have to to gamma raise. Yeah, that's an 406 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: ascending scale of the energy of of these photons and 407 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: starting somewhere at the upper end of the ultra violet spectrum, 408 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: so that the upper end of the ultra violet, the 409 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: X rays, the gamma rays, those are the really dangerous, 410 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: the ionizing types of radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum, that's right, 411 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: So ionizing that that brings up the main distinction we 412 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: should probably make about the different kinds of radiation, because 413 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: as we said, we're always surrounded constantly by radiation. It 414 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: makes a big difference whether that radiation is ionizing or 415 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: non ionizing. Right, And you had that wonderful example earlier 416 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: about the flash of blue light is the the air 417 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: uh ionized. Right, So the radiation that was coming out 418 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: of that plutonium core was doing something to the to 419 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: the atoms in the air. It was making some changes 420 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: to the structure of the very atoms themselves. Right Now, 421 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: These lower forms of of radiation, the non ionizing variety, 422 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: they don't have enough energy to ionize atoms or molecules, 423 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: thus the name. They're located at the low low end 424 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: of the electromagnetic spectrum and a non ionizing radiation sources 425 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: in our life include power lines, microwaves, radio waves, infrared radiation, 426 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: visible light lasers. Although considered less dangerous than ionizing radiation, 427 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: over exposure of course can cause health issues because again 428 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: it comes down to uh to the degree and the 429 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: length of exposure, right, I mean it can still non 430 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: ionizing radiation can still for example, heat tissues which can 431 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: have an effect. Yeah. But ionizing radiation is energy in 432 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: the form of particles or waves uh. And it's so 433 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: high in energy that it can break chemical bonds, meaning 434 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: it can change or ionize an atom that interacts with it. 435 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: At a lower energy, it can strip off a couple 436 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: of electrons. At higher energy, it can destroy the nucleus 437 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: of an atom, it can damage DNA. So this is 438 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: the stuff of radioactive material, very high voltage equipment, nuclear 439 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: reactions and stars. And by the way, as long as 440 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about natural versus unnatural radiation, even though there's 441 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes there's a you can kind of blur 442 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: the lines there. On a terrestrial basis, the levels of 443 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: radiation you would need to cause radiation sickness and really 444 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, acute form uh, pretty much require human technology 445 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: after a point. So naturally occurring occurring sites of radioactivities 446 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: such as prinstance, if you were to travel to Ramsar 447 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: around but that's like a naturally radioactive site, right, Yeah, 448 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: if you were to travel there, you would you would 449 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: encounter this, you know, in this radioactive environment, but it 450 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't be enough to produce anything near the high level 451 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: of doses required to inflict the sort of harm we've 452 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: seen via the detonation of atomic weapons or accidents at 453 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: nuclear power plants. Well that's good, yeah, I mean I 454 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: appreciate that the Earth is like that. Yeah. And and 455 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: this kind of I guess is a nod to this 456 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: idea of you know, the the atomic age, what is 457 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: invented in the atomic age. What is unleashed in the 458 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: atomic age um. So while while we are naturally surrounded 459 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: by all kinds of radiation, while we are naturally in 460 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: a universe of highly radioactive stars and things like that, 461 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: we're not naturally any universe of of you know, regular 462 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: human life scale nuclear reactors and atomic weapons. Right. It 463 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: brings some very high radiation events uh and uh and 464 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: items into our local environment that generally are not there. 465 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: So ionizing radiation, the dangerous kind of radiation comes in 466 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: a handful of main varieties. You've basically got high frequency 467 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: electromagnetic radiation, and then you've got radioactive particles. So let's 468 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: look at the particles first. You've got alpha particles and 469 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: beta particles. Alpha particles are relatively large, and they're made 470 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: of protons and neutrons, right. And because you've got protons 471 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: without any electrons, what does that mean? It's charged positive 472 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: charge uh. And this means it wants to interact with 473 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: matter to break bonds and strip away electrons. That's the 474 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: ionizing part. So what it can do is turn atoms 475 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: in your body into other differently behaving atom charged ions uh. 476 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: And alpha particles tend to shoot off of atoms when 477 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: they undergo radioactive decay. Now, alpha particles can only travel 478 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: a short distance. In fact, they can be stopped with 479 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: just a piece of paper or even your skin. However, 480 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: inhalation or ingestion of any material that gives off alpha 481 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: particles that can be dangerous. Once inside your body, alpha 482 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: particles can ionize your internal tissue. And this is what 483 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: happens in some cases of like radioactive poisoning. Somebody has 484 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: given a poison that contains a radioactive material and it's 485 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: putting off alpha particles inside your body. But now, what 486 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: about beta particles. Beta particles are fast moving electrons that 487 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: they can travel and penetrate far more than alpha particles. 488 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: Beta particles can be stopped or reduced by a layer 489 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: of clothing or a substance like aluminum. However, some beta 490 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: particles have enough energy to penetrate the skin and cause 491 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: damage that's very similar to burns. As with alpha particles, 492 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: beta particles are quite hazardous if you inhale or ingest 493 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: something that releases them, right because yet again they have 494 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: a charge, and for this reason they're going to interact 495 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: electrically with the tissues inside your body, trying to change 496 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: stuff around. Now, another type of particle radiation would be 497 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: neutron radiation, and this just means a free neutron from 498 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: the nucleus of an atom shooting off all by itself, 499 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: and this happens during nuclear fission. Neutrons can travel a 500 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: really long distance, and they can penetrate deeply through many 501 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: types of objects. And I've read that the best thing 502 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: for stopping this material is actually something that's rich in hydrogen, 503 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: for example water H two. Oh. This is a good 504 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: reason water makes a good radiation shield. Um and neutron 505 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: radiation is a major part of what actually happened at 506 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: the Los Alamos criticality accidents when the demon core went 507 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: super critical. Lewis Slotan's body was bombarded by neutrons and 508 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: this is part of what killed him. But you might 509 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: be thinking, wait a minute, ionizing radiation. Why would neutrons 510 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: be ionizing radiation, because if you remember your atomic chemistry, 511 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: neutrons don't have a charge positive or negative, So why 512 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: would they break chemical bonds and change atoms into other 513 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: things that behave differently. Well, the answer is that neutrons 514 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: are sort of indirect killers. They themselves don't ionize your tissues, 515 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: but If a neutron is absorbed into the nucleus of 516 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: an atom in your body, that atom can now be 517 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: an unstable isotope. It's got too many neutrons and it's 518 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: and its nucleus, so the nucleus becomes unstable, meaning it 519 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: could now undergo fission and emit radiation. So neutron radiation 520 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: has the power to turn normal, safe materials into radioactive materials, 521 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: which in turn with then emit ionizing radiation and harm you. 522 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: But I guess we should now let's look at the 523 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: pure energy radiation, like gamma raise. Gamma raise are a 524 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: type of electromagic magnetic radiation. Gamma rays often a company 525 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: alpha and beta particles. Unlike alpha and beta particles, however, 526 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: they're extremely penetrating. In fact, several inches of lead or 527 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: even a few feet of concrete are necessary to stop 528 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: gamma ray. Uh. They're a radiation hazard for the entire body, 529 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: meaning that although they'll pass through you, your tissue is 530 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: going to absorb some rays. Yeah. And then also, of 531 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: course there are X rays, lower energy than gamma rays, 532 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: but still ionizing and potentially very dangerous depending on the dose. Basically, 533 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: the way that X rays and gamma rays hurt you 534 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: is by introducing huge amounts of energy into the atoms 535 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: and your body, which again breaks molecular bonds, strips electrons 536 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: away from atoms, creating free charged particles that want to 537 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: interact with other atoms and molecules to change them. Now, 538 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: of course, in a lot of cases where you're getting 539 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: a dose of hard radiation, it's not going to be 540 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: just one of these things or another. You're getting a 541 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: mixture of different types of radiation all coming at you simultaneously. 542 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: So overexposure to ionizing radiation can cause mutations in your genes. 543 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: This can cause birth defects, raised risk of cancer, and 544 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: then you go get burns, radiation, sickness, etcetera. But in 545 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: order to kill you, it would just need to damage 546 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: or kill enough cells to cause as a more immediate 547 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: or immediate death, or just to cause cancer. Yeah. So, 548 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: for a really rough analogy, imagine a huge machine like 549 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: a like a aircraft carrier or battleship that is bombarded 550 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: by millions of invisible, tiny pin pricks, and each of 551 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: these pin pricks has a certain random chance of hitting 552 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: a component within that ship and then changing it into 553 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: something else, like a maybe a screw turns into a 554 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: nut or a copper wire into a piece of foam. 555 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: Uh And a ship might be able to survive a 556 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: certain number of these magic pin pricks and still run, 557 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: but a certain at a certain level of exposure, you're 558 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: basically guaranteed to make enough changes to the ship that 559 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: it no longer functions as a machine and maybe even 560 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: sinks when the hull itself fails. Now, one thing to 561 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: notice is that the harmful effects of radiation are based 562 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: on atomic physics and chemistry. Any complex system that's made 563 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: out of atoms should be somewhat vulnerable to radiation, and 564 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: for this reason, it really should affect any organism, right, 565 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be just humans or something. All organisms are 566 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: made out of atoms and molecules. No organism wants to 567 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: have its atoms and molecules broken up changed into different 568 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: atoms and molecules like no I need that. Uh So, 569 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: the molecular structures in our bodies are the way they 570 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: are for a reason that has to do with survival. 571 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: But but where it's interesting is, again for the probably 572 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: fifth time, if it comes down to to the dosage 573 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: level and the exposure length and h and also varying species, 574 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: varying organisms are gonna have different levels of resistance to 575 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: radiation as well, exactly. So this is a concept in 576 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: biology of radio resistance. Not all organisms are equally susceptible 577 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: to radiation. Some are able to withstand more than others, 578 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: and as we'll get into in a bit, some might 579 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: even go. Uh, I don't know what you'd say, go 580 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: across the line to the other side of the ledger 581 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: and not just resist but benefit indeed. Alright, So on 582 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: that note, shall we go to Chernobyl? I think we 583 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: should probably try to take a trip okay, just scenic Ukraine. 584 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: So Chernobyl is one of those um, it's one of 585 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: those places, one of those events where that the name 586 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: continues to resonate. Uh. And you know, listeners out there, 587 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: we're going to have varying degrees of familiarity with Chernobyl. 588 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: But I thought it would be helpful just to to 589 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: very quickly run through what where, where Chernobyl is, and 590 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: what occurred and now we should keep in mind that. 591 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: I think in the future we might want to do 592 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: a whole episode on the science of the Chernobyl disaster 593 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: and it's many downstream effects through time. Because there have 594 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: been a lot of studies about not just what happened 595 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: at this nuclear meltdown, but but what happened in the 596 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: decades since, right, I mean, even the story of how 597 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: it occurred is is fascinating as well. So tell me 598 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: about it. Right. So, when it comes to environmental disasters, uh, 599 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: we're the nineteen eighties six Chernobyl catastrophe is often kind 600 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: of at the top of the list or its It 601 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: certainly has some of the uh, it has the name 602 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: value that you you don't find with a lot of 603 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: other environmental disasters. So this was this explosions fewed fifty 604 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: tons of radioactive material into the air and the reactor 605 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: burned for ten days, forcing the evacuation of at least 606 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: thirty thousand people from the Ukrainian town of Pripyat. In 607 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: the decades to follow, we have we've had continuous study 608 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: pretty much of how this affected not only the local environment, 609 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: but but the broader environment. Now, when people here melt 610 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: down in the United States, a lot of them might 611 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: have the the the US point of Three Mile Island. 612 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: You know something, they know something happened there, but it's 613 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: not comparable. Right, So nineteen seventy nine three mile Island 614 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: incident that was a partial nuclear meltdown, Chernobyl was a 615 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: total meltdown. Um So Russian teams chased the melted remnants 616 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 1: of the plants reactor core into the facility's basement. They 617 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: flooded it with water to cool off the materials, keep 618 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: them from from burning down um to you know, to 619 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: try to try and stop it before it could burn 620 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: through the containment building and pollute the groundwater. Next, they 621 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: dumped a bore on clay, dolomite, lead and sand onto 622 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: the burning core by helicopter to put off the fires 623 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: and limit the radioactive particles that were now rising up 624 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: into the atmosphere. And in the months that followed, the 625 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: encase the ruined plan and a concrete shielding that's often 626 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: referred to as as the sarcophagus, which puts you know 627 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: a suitably dark um darker uh note on everything here, 628 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: But of course, the damage was already done by that 629 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: point um and subsequent inquiries would reveal just what the 630 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: damage amounted to as far as humans were concerned. The 631 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: World Health Organised zation puts the fatality estimate set four 632 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: thousand deaths uh. This is a quote from World Health Organization. 633 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: They said this includes some fifty emergency workers who died 634 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: of acute radiation syndrome and nine children who died of 635 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 1: thyroid cancer, and an estimate in estimated total of thirty 636 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: nine hundred and forty deaths from radiation induced cancer and 637 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: leukemia among the two hundred thousand emergency workers from nineteen 638 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: eight six to nineteen eighty seven, One hundred sixteen thousand 639 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: evacuees and two hundred and seventy thousand residents of the 640 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: most contaminated areas total about six hundred thousand, so food 641 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: contaminated with radioactive iodine was a major factor, especially with children. 642 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: Radioactive iodine ended up in the milk from cows who 643 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: ate contaminated grasses. Yeah, and then the environmental impact overall. 644 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: This is a major release of radio nucleides that continued 645 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: for ten days and contaminated more than two hundred thousand 646 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: square kilometers or seven seven thousand, two hundred twenty square 647 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: miles of Europe. Most of the strontium and plutonium isotopes 648 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: were deposited within a hundred kilometers or sixty two miles 649 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: of the damage reactor, so the radioactive iodine luckily had 650 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: a short half life and that's all gone now. Um 651 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: the strontium and the cesium with has a longer half 652 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: life of about thirty years, so that's going to remain 653 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: an issue for decades um. And but then this, this 654 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: quote comes to us from a World Health again they said, 655 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: although plutonium isotopes in americium to forty one will persist 656 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: perhaps for thousands of years, their contribution to human exposure 657 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: is low. This this shows the kind of crazy way 658 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: that radioactive material can behave almost kind of like a 659 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: plague spreading throughout except it's not like a plague because 660 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: generally a plague is more contained to certain types of organisms. 661 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,280 Speaker 1: It'll it'll target rats or bird or humans or something 662 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: like that. This is almost like a you know, a 663 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: material plague that split spreads all throughout the ecosystem. And 664 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: because of the way that different organisms in the ecosystem 665 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: absorbed materials, trap them and then get consumed and decompose 666 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: and redistribute them, it just kind of goes everywhere. Now, 667 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: one could quick note on the idea of giant mutants. Now, 668 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: obviously no giant animals came rampaging out of the forests 669 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: surrounding Chernobyl and even giant Ukrainian crabs. No, no, giant 670 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: Ukrainian crabs. The U S Department of Energies, Office of 671 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: Human Radiation Experiments, they're they're very quick to remind us 672 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: that genetic mutations due to radiation, they do not produce 673 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: the visible monstrosities of science fiction. You know, it just creates, 674 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: produces a greater frequency of the same mutations that occur 675 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: continuously and spontaneously in nature, so that the natural world 676 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: does not produce radioactive giants, at least in the animal kingdom, 677 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: because the realm of plants is another matter entirely in 678 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: the in the wake of chernobyl uh and other radioactive accidents, 679 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: we have seen various malformations including dwarf is m, strange growths, glowing, 680 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: and yes, even gigantism, especially concerning pine needles. So that's yeah. 681 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: So that's one of the few areas where we can say, yes, 682 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: we have seen atomic gigantism pine needles. But who's going 683 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 1: to watch attack up the pine needles, right, I would, dude, 684 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: do you think predatory animals are ruthless? Imagine predatory atomic plants. 685 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: Plants have no compassion whatsoever. That I don't even process 686 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: the concept of cuteness. A giant lion might want to 687 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,919 Speaker 1: kill you, but at least it recognizes that large eyes 688 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: are cute. The pine tree does not. All right, well, 689 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: maybe there's some potential there, you know. I would say, though, 690 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 1: if if I was going to get killed by killer 691 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: pine tree, I would hope it was a Jeffrey pine. 692 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the best kind of pine. Well it has 693 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: a friendly name. Yeah. Uh So, despite what organisms you 694 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: might see like this surviving resisting and environments contaminated with 695 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: radiation and radioactive particles, whether or not they've got apparent mutations, 696 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: you would still expect that ionizing radiation is always a 697 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: net negative influence on an organism, right, except in those 698 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: rare cases maybe where the you know, it causes a 699 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: free commutation that provides a survival advantage. Those are going 700 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: to be the minority, right, Some radio resistant or just 701 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: plain lucky organisms might survive despite the hardship of ambient radiation. 702 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: But what if there were organisms like the Hulk or 703 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,959 Speaker 1: like the crab monsters that seem to actively benefit from 704 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: the universal high energy death magic of ionizing radiation. We 705 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: are going to answer that question when we get back 706 00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: from this break. All right, we're back. All right. So 707 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: we've talked about ionizing non ionizing radiation. Well, ionizing radiation 708 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 1: has always been a part of the terrestrial environment. Comes 709 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: from space. Yeah, and early life forms here on Earth 710 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,280 Speaker 1: had to have considerable resistance to it in order to 711 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: survive and to advance into other forms. Oh yeah, I 712 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: should mention radioactive rocks as well, just on Earth. So 713 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: background radiation levels are much lower now than they were 714 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: on the early Earth, but terrestrial life still exists in 715 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: a field of radiation. Fungi in particular show a strong resistance. 716 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,839 Speaker 1: So you see this stuff thriving aboard space stations, adapting 717 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: to extreme conditions. We've all I've we've covered on this 718 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: on the show before. And imagine everyone out there from 719 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: run across constant articles about the extreme file organisms in 720 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: our world and how they force us to re examine 721 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: what life is and where life can thrive. There's a 722 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: reason there are limits to how you can spend on 723 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: the International Space Station. If you go up there, they 724 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: won't let you stay forever. You need to come back, 725 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: and that's for your own good. Uh. There are multiple reasons. 726 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: I mean, some of them might have to do with 727 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: like the long term effects of micro gravity on the 728 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: human body, which we don't fully understand yet, but a 729 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 1: lot of it is clearly due to the known risks 730 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: from exposured ionizing radiation. While you're up there outside the 731 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: Earth's atmosphere. There are elevated levels of radiation in space, 732 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: and you shouldn't get too much of this or it's 733 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: going to hurt you. Now, as you say, there there 734 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: are these micro organisms, these uh, fungal microbes that survive 735 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,240 Speaker 1: up there in the I s s for for generations apparently, uh, 736 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: in space, and they seem to be doing just fine. 737 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: And it's true you mentioned the radio resistance of fung gui. 738 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: I think generally fungi are considered the most radio resistant 739 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: uh kingdom of life. I hope I'm not wrong about that. 740 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: I think that's generally correct. Yeah, we're up there in space, 741 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, sort of barely managing when we come back. 742 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,439 Speaker 1: The fun Guide is saying, get me on that generation ship. 743 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: I'm ready to go. Right, let's see some new worlds. Well, 744 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: they might need to be on the generation ship if 745 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: we need something to eat while we're going going out there, 746 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a minute. So we're 747 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: going to talk about a study by several authors, one 748 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: of whom is the distinguished microbiologist and immunologist Arturo Casadival, 749 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: and he tells this story about how years ago he 750 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: was reading about how robotic exploration of the Chernobyl ruins 751 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,399 Speaker 1: that from the Chernobyl disaster. We were just talking about 752 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: the total meltdown of the power plant. So there's a 753 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: robotic exploration of these ruins, and they revealed that something 754 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: was growing on the walls of the abandoned reactor, some 755 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: sort of matt of dark fungus. But this is definitely 756 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: weird because this was a dangerously radioactive environment. You know, 757 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: the pin pricks, the pin pricks of ionizing radiation are 758 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: going all over the place all the time. Be kind 759 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: of like if you just let the demon core go 760 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: critical for a while and discovered that a bunch of 761 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: squirrels began nesting in the test check, you'd want to 762 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: know what's the deal with those squirrels, and and please 763 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: stay away from those squirrels. Yeah, not as bad as 764 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: the pine needles that there, might be worse than the crabs. 765 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,399 Speaker 1: So one of the first things to notice about this 766 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: fungus that's growing in the presence of radiation is that 767 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 1: it's specifically dark fungus. This is an indication of the 768 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: presence of the pigment melanin. Now, melanin is a natural 769 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,280 Speaker 1: polymer pigments found in all kinds of organisms. In humans, 770 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: varieties melanin are produced by special cells known as melana sites, 771 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: and the melanin itself is responsible for providing the pigmentation 772 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: of body parts like your iris, is your hair and 773 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: your skin, and of course there are a couple of 774 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: different kind of melanin. There are several kinds actually, like 775 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,479 Speaker 1: there is you melanin. This is the common kind that's 776 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,360 Speaker 1: black or brown in color. So if your hair is dark, 777 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,359 Speaker 1: if you have black or brown hair, it probably has 778 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of you melanin in it. There's also phia melanin. 779 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: This is usually what's seen in like the hair of 780 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: people who have red hair or maybe light brown reddish hair, 781 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 1: and in the skin. Melanin is believed to play a 782 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: role in the natural human relationship to radiation because scientists 783 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: think that it protects our cells, especially our d n A, 784 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: from damage by an everyday form of ionizing or near 785 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:43,720 Speaker 1: ionizing radiation, which is the ultraviolet or UV radiation found 786 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: in sunlight, so naturally, dark objects tend to absorb more light. 787 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,319 Speaker 1: This is, in fact, by definition, what makes objects dark 788 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: uh so black or brown. Melanin has properties of absorbing 789 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: electromagnetic radiation, including UV radiation, and dissipating it by converting 790 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: it into heat. In this way, it is thought to 791 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,760 Speaker 1: be able to protect the nuclei of your skin cells 792 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: from being constantly bombarded, damaged, and mutated by the invisible 793 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: death rays of the sun, and the pigment absorbs the radiation, 794 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: so your genetic material doesn't have to So melanin in 795 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: that way is a natural shield against radiation. It's one 796 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: of the ways that organisms have evolved natural radio resistance, 797 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: and even our own bodies make use of it. But 798 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: the role of melanin doesn't stop there. There's some evidence 799 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: that melanin may play other roles in the human body 800 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 1: and in other organisms. For example, uh, the fungal microbe 801 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: Cryptococcus neoform us. Oh yeah, that's your DJ name, DJ 802 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,799 Speaker 1: Cryptococcus neoformons. Okay, I'll have to be able to say 803 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: that really fast over a beat with you need to 804 00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: be able to stay in the house at the end 805 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: of the dame. They need to know that not only 806 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: are you here, but you are in the house else. 807 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 1: And if you were playing house music, you need to 808 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: be able to tell everyone that that is what they're 809 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: listening to. I'm not in the house. I'm in the 810 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 1: abandoned reactor room. I'm just telling you the rules. So 811 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 1: Cryptococcus neofemans is a fungus that's found everywhere, just pretty 812 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: much everywhere in nature. It's also potentially pathogenic, causing diseases 813 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: and people, especially with impaired immune function. For example, it 814 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,439 Speaker 1: often causes lung infections and people who have AIDS. So 815 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: for some reason, it has been observed that melanin production 816 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,720 Speaker 1: in this fungal germ is associated with virulence. More melanin 817 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 1: production means a more powerful germ, and it's been suggested 818 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: that this is because melanin helps the fungus protect itself 819 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,240 Speaker 1: against the host's immune response. So we're seeing that melanin 820 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 1: may have a diverse role essentially in in different life 821 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,399 Speaker 1: functions and for all different kinds of organisms. I mean, 822 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,359 Speaker 1: this is weird to remember we're talking about a fungus here, 823 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: but this is also a pigment that animals share. It's 824 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 1: in all the kingdoms of life, which tends to be 825 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: an indicator that it's probably quite ancient in origin. That 826 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: melanin goes way back. Now, Robert, you mentioned earlier that 827 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: in previous geological eras, and you know, past life on 828 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: Earth was exposed to a lot more ionizing radiation than 829 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: we are on the surface of the Earth now. And uh, 830 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: if you look at the role of melanin as a 831 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 1: very ancient thing emerging very early in life on Earth, 832 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,480 Speaker 1: that that may that may sort of provide an explanation. Right, 833 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: if there was a lot of radiation back then, and 834 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: melanin has this role in protecting organisms from radiation, you 835 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,399 Speaker 1: can see one reason it might have emerged. Now, let's 836 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: go back to the paper I mentioned earlier. So as 837 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 1: we saw hinted in the blasted concrete dungeon of the 838 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: Chernobyl reactor room, this dark pigment in some types of 839 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: fungus plays an even weirder, more fascinating role, not just 840 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 1: protecting or is ms from harmful radiation, but allowing them 841 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 1: to thrive on it. Yeah. This uh, this paper, This 842 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: is a two seven paper published in pl Os one 843 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,320 Speaker 1: titled Ionizing radiation changes the electronic properties of melan and 844 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: enhances the growth of melanized fung Guy. Right, And that 845 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 1: was by a long list of authors data Cova, Brian, Hung, Model, Schweitzer, 846 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 1: Ien Nosen, Chuck, and Cassadaval. Yeah, and they found they 847 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: found some interesting evidence that the fungi containing the pigment 848 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: melan and can utilize the ionizing radiation portion of the 849 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:39,879 Speaker 1: electromagnics spectrum to transform radioactive energy into biological energy. And uh, 850 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: this would be in keeping crazy enough with the way 851 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,920 Speaker 1: that chlorophylling plants converts sunlight into bio energy. That is crazy. Now, 852 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: if that's correct, it would be absolutely bizarre and fascinating. 853 00:51:52,719 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: That essentially a a cosmic dark kind of parody of Oh. 854 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say parody, I don't mean to demean it. 855 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,400 Speaker 1: A fascinating, weird parallel of photosynthesis, the kind of photosynthesis 856 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: we see in plants and blue green algae and things 857 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: is going on with mushrooms. But instead of regular sunlight, 858 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: they're using gamma radiation, this high energy stuff that should 859 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,400 Speaker 1: kill any organism. So if this is correct, how did 860 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,759 Speaker 1: they determine it, Like, how did they determine the fun 861 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,440 Speaker 1: fungi were not only surviving in the presence of this, 862 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,239 Speaker 1: but we're actively benefiting from it. So here's the basic experiment, 863 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,080 Speaker 1: or this part of the experiment. There were multiple experiments 864 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 1: in in this study. The basic experiment on the fungus 865 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,959 Speaker 1: was the two species of fungus contained melanin, the Cryptococcus 866 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: neoformans and the Wengiella dermatiditis it's got a lot of 867 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,840 Speaker 1: dental consonants in it. Both were placed in environments with 868 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,399 Speaker 1: strong ionizing radiation than five hundred times what you'd get 869 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: from standard background radiation on Earth. And then these melanized 870 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: cells in radioactive conditions were found to have had quote 871 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: higher cf use, more dry weight biomass, and threefold greater 872 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: incorporation of C fourteen acetate than non irradiated melanized cells 873 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 1: or irradiated albino mutants. Now that's a mouthful. What did 874 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: that mean? In other words, by several measures, the melanin 875 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: fungus exposed to strong radiation was more biologically successful, It 876 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: grew more, it did better than fungus that was not irradiated, 877 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,760 Speaker 1: or fungus that was irradiated but didn't have significant melanin 878 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 1: in it cells. So put a pale fungus in radiation 879 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't like it. Put have a regular non irradiated fungus, 880 00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, it does its thing. But you put one 881 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 1: of these dark pigmented funguses fungi under radiation and it thrives, 882 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,680 Speaker 1: It loves it. It's a power up to it, it's 883 00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,319 Speaker 1: food to it. In a sense, that's what appears to 884 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,320 Speaker 1: be happening. Now this isn't fully confirmed, but but that's 885 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: what they think they observed here and and to further 886 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 1: bols through this idea, they tried to uncover leads as 887 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 1: to what the mechanism might be. Right. So, if you 888 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: if you find something in nature that looks very odd, 889 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,359 Speaker 1: one of the ways that you can really help build 890 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: your case that it is that what you're seeing is 891 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: really what you think it is, is to find out 892 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 1: how it works. Right, So they tried to uncover a 893 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,120 Speaker 1: possible mechanism and uh and their mechanism of how ionizing 894 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: radiation might be converted into usable energy went like this. 895 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: They found through experiment that exposure to ionizing radiation increased 896 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:55,399 Speaker 1: the electron transfer properties of melanin. Again, what does that mean, Well, 897 00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: essentially it changed the electronic capabilities of this pigment. The 898 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,959 Speaker 1: best way I've seen it put into simple, understandable terms 899 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,800 Speaker 1: is from a two thousand seven article and Scientific American 900 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: by David Biello, who claimed that the melanin in this 901 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:16,040 Speaker 1: case quote acts like a step down electric transformer transformers 902 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,600 Speaker 1: you might see, you know, turning the electricity from the 903 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,879 Speaker 1: power grid into something that you can use in your house. Yeah, 904 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,880 Speaker 1: taking something that would normally just fry to the Jesus 905 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: out of everything, you know, dear, into something that was 906 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,399 Speaker 1: his tame enough, domesticating the current for you. Right. So, 907 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,879 Speaker 1: what what the pigment does under this model is it's 908 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: hit with incredibly high energy radiation that should destroy life. Instead, 909 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:44,920 Speaker 1: the pigment absorbs it through some electrical electrical transfer. It 910 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: manages to tone it down a bit into some kind 911 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: of energy that can be used by the organism to 912 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 1: sustain its life function. So some of the far reaching 913 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,520 Speaker 1: effects of the study are pretty fascinating. The researchers suggests 914 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: that radiation grown fungi might one day feed human travel 915 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: space travelers. Yeah, because out in space, you're exposed to 916 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,880 Speaker 1: a lot of ionizing radiation um and if you're say 917 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,120 Speaker 1: far from sunlight, Uh, and you don't want to have 918 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,799 Speaker 1: to use your own power on grow lamps to to 919 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,680 Speaker 1: to grow plants in your in your spaceship. What do 920 00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,799 Speaker 1: you have to work without in deep space? While if 921 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,799 Speaker 1: you could actually grow something on ionizing radiation that you 922 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,080 Speaker 1: could eat, that would be amazing. And what if it 923 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 1: glowed as well, and you have like glowing fungal of 924 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 1: spheres that are lighting your environments. You can really go 925 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 1: go wild with some of the possibilities here. But they 926 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: they they also speculate that this could even unlock unlock 927 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: the possibility. Uh that no, this is just a possibility 928 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,280 Speaker 1: that this is not proven, that melanin in human flesh 929 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,239 Speaker 1: might provide energy to skin cells. Now that, like you say, 930 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 1: it's just a speculation. It would be consistent with their findings, 931 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: but it's not something that's proven. But really interesting if 932 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,720 Speaker 1: that were true, it would also provide an interesting twist 933 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: on this old claim. I know you've heard Robert the 934 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,760 Speaker 1: idea of the sun eaters, the people who that it's 935 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,480 Speaker 1: basically a supernatural claim. But these people claim that some 936 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 1: monks and holy people can live for years without eating food, 937 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,480 Speaker 1: getting all of the nourishment and energy their body needs. 938 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: Just straight from the sunlight. Now, obviously, I don't think 939 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,320 Speaker 1: that even if this were true, that we were getting 940 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,640 Speaker 1: usable bio energy through the melanin in our skin cells, 941 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: I don't think it would make those claims plausible. I 942 00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,000 Speaker 1: think that's still pretty much nonsense. But it would be 943 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: a cool twist on it, because even if you could 944 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: get some tiny amount of usable bio energy from the sunlight, 945 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 1: it wouldn't come close to the amount of concentrated chemical 946 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: energy you get from eating food. Right for for a 947 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,120 Speaker 1: rough analogy, think about the electromagnetic energy harvested from solar 948 00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:00,240 Speaker 1: panels versus the dense chemical energy contained in gasoline. You know, 949 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,400 Speaker 1: it does make me think back to our episode on 950 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,000 Speaker 1: Chinese immortality where we talked about the idea of these 951 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:14,440 Speaker 1: aged individuals living just on undo and the wind. Uh 952 00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,720 Speaker 1: would kind of fall in line with with that vision 953 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:24,040 Speaker 1: of this almost um you know, ephemeral of a life 954 00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: form that's just just barely subsisting on the things around it. Well, 955 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it just makes me wonder if this were 956 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,880 Speaker 1: the case that you get some usable bio energy through 957 00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 1: your skin cells, what I would want to see is 958 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: the thought experiment that explains, Okay, given how that works, 959 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: what would the naked surface area of your body need 960 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 1: to be in order to replace certain amounts of food? 961 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,400 Speaker 1: Like could you live on five hundred calories a day 962 00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: if you had x amount of naked surface area and 963 00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,520 Speaker 1: sat out in the sun all day? Like if you 964 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 1: had like a large skin flap like a demetridon, Yeah, exactly, 965 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,680 Speaker 1: something that that nature basically human solar panel, Like if 966 00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: you had giant wings to stretch out and uh and 967 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,920 Speaker 1: absorb all the life, But then you'd also be losing 968 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 1: a lot of heat energy against But I don't know. 969 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,480 Speaker 1: I do love, I do love the idea of it. 970 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,479 Speaker 1: The big thing is that this, this study does force 971 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:28,320 Speaker 1: us to reevaluate life and uh and how life not 972 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: only interacts now but has just evolved in the presence 973 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,240 Speaker 1: of radiation. Yeah. I mean it's weird how the stuff 974 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,320 Speaker 1: that seems so normal to us on Earth is maybe 975 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:45,320 Speaker 1: not normal. In fact, it's just a circumstantial byproduct of 976 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,760 Speaker 1: what Earth is like, and that life on another planet, 977 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,080 Speaker 1: the same kind of biology, the same kind of relationship 978 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,040 Speaker 1: with energy in the universe that seems so intuitive to 979 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,200 Speaker 1: us might be very weird to them. I mean, what 980 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,640 Speaker 1: if there's a planet that really thrives on gamma radiation. 981 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that's plausible. That might not make sense, 982 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,920 Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I can imagine it. You know 983 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,400 Speaker 1: what if they're really just confused by the idea of 984 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,760 Speaker 1: a whole food ecosystem that's built off the energy from sunlight, 985 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 1: which is where everything on Earth comes from. Yeah, yeah, 986 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,120 Speaker 1: this is This is something that came up in the 987 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,840 Speaker 1: episode that did recently with Christian on butter. Like you 988 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you really break down butter, Butter comes from the sun. 989 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: Everything comes from the sun. It's all solar. I mean, 990 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 1: your steak comes from the sun, Your your your whatever, 991 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,720 Speaker 1: your milkshake comes from the sun, and all of it 992 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:40,240 Speaker 1: is essentially solar energy that has been transformed into into 993 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: something else, something that you can consume. You're just you're 994 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,360 Speaker 1: just gobbling it up further down the food jake. All right, 995 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,800 Speaker 1: we gotta end with crazy ideas. I've got one. Here's 996 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:55,320 Speaker 1: one has matt suits made entirely out of mold. I 997 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 1: like it like a black fungus, black fungus body suit 998 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,800 Speaker 1: to cover you up and protect you when you wade 999 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,720 Speaker 1: into the nuclear waters. Especially if it's rare. It grows rapidly, 1000 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: So it's essentially like it's kind of like a glow stick. 1001 01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: You just break this in half in two fluid chambers, 1002 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: converge and then this black mole just grows all over you. 1003 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,000 Speaker 1: And it's because it's alive. It's self healing. So instead 1004 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,480 Speaker 1: of your has mat suit getting punctured and now you're like, 1005 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,320 Speaker 1: oh well I'm ruined now. Uh, instead it would it 1006 01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,360 Speaker 1: would grow back, seal itself up. That wouldn't really work 1007 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,040 Speaker 1: with it, maybe not, but you know, it makes me 1008 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: think think about the various theories have been thrown out 1009 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,440 Speaker 1: over the years about the future of of the human 1010 01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:42,720 Speaker 1: species in space. The basic cyborg idea that that human 1011 01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 1: and must become more machine. It has been be this 1012 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,760 Speaker 1: the synthesis of of biology and technology in order to 1013 01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: make this adaptation possible. What if the future is is 1014 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: is Homo sapiens becoming a symbiotic more of a symbiotic 1015 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,360 Speaker 1: go organism. Uh and uh and and bringing in this 1016 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,240 Speaker 1: this fungal existence is the space You know, this idea 1017 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,000 Speaker 1: of the living suit. But what if that is the 1018 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,880 Speaker 1: future of the human race. Yeah, well, I mean it 1019 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,560 Speaker 1: goes to the idea of when we think of the cyborg. 1020 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:20,439 Speaker 1: It's it's humans joining with human made artificial technology that's 1021 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, made of metal and plastic and molded pieces. 1022 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I like the idea of the biocyborg, the hybrid organism. Yeah, 1023 01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,479 Speaker 1: especially if we end up with a big mushroom cap 1024 01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,080 Speaker 1: head and then then you know, it's it's it's all worth. 1025 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:40,320 Speaker 1: It will become space Lins. Yeah, space Lins Invasion of 1026 01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,919 Speaker 1: the Space Likens. There's the next the next movie I'd 1027 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,040 Speaker 1: like to see, along with The Killer Pine Trees and 1028 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,920 Speaker 1: some of the other hypothetical B movies we've discussed in 1029 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: this episode. Have I told you about the B movie 1030 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,920 Speaker 1: that I I've recently been thinking, we've got to rite 1031 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,080 Speaker 1: and produce what's this? This the No? No, it's called 1032 01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,280 Speaker 1: Planet of the Satan's, of the Satans, of the Satan 1033 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,600 Speaker 1: all Satan's. Yeah, well, I mean you got Planet of 1034 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,280 Speaker 1: the Vampires, but you gotta go step up. Planet of 1035 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,800 Speaker 1: the Satan's. That would be good. Yeah, that or a 1036 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: Planet of the Frankenstein's. I would like that as well, 1037 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,680 Speaker 1: but Planet of the Satans. It would be kind of 1038 01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: like everyone on the planet is a Satan. And then yeah, okay, 1039 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,320 Speaker 1: well not the people who arrived there they've got to 1040 01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 1: deal with the native Satan's. Oh, what if you do 1041 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,240 Speaker 1: a Santa Claus versus the Martians kind of thing where 1042 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,960 Speaker 1: you have a world where there is no Satan. And 1043 01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,600 Speaker 1: they said that children need Satan. Without Satan, how are 1044 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,000 Speaker 1: they to live their lives? And then they decided, well, 1045 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:38,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna go and we're gonna steal a Satan from 1046 01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,920 Speaker 1: the planet of the Satans, and then that will be 1047 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,200 Speaker 1: our world Satan and then will put everything in balance. 1048 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,360 Speaker 1: And then that's the origin story for life on Earth. 1049 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,040 Speaker 1: Big spoiler at the end, Yeah, the Fall of Man. 1050 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,520 Speaker 1: All right, you lived up to the name. That's how 1051 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,920 Speaker 1: we do it, all right. So hey, if you want 1052 01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,520 Speaker 1: to more on this topic and other topics, head on 1053 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,680 Speaker 1: over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's 1054 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,479 Speaker 1: where we have all the podcast episodes. Video's blog post 1055 01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:09,680 Speaker 1: links out to various social media accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etcetera. 1056 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,320 Speaker 1: We'll also include links to related material on the landing 1057 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,880 Speaker 1: page for this episode. And if you want to get 1058 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,000 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 1059 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:19,720 Speaker 1: any other, you want to let let us know about 1060 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,520 Speaker 1: a topic you'd like us to do in the future, 1061 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,720 Speaker 1: or just to say hi. You can always email us 1062 01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:36,840 Speaker 1: at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com 1063 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,280 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 1064 01:04:39,320 --> 01:05:00,840 Speaker 1: that how stuff works dot com. Four