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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: At the start of each academic year, Harvard Law School's

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Speaker 2: Black Law Students Association leads a trip for new students

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Speaker 2: to Martha's Vineyard. It's a chance for them to get

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Speaker 2: to know each other, to meet older black students, to

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Speaker 2: become a part of a community.

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Speaker 1: And this year some of the second and third year

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Speaker 1: students noticed there were fewer black first year law students.

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Speaker 2: Janet Lauren covers higher education for Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 1: So after that trip in September, they got together and said,

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Speaker 1: we need to do something about this.

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Speaker 2: The members of h Balsa, as the group is known,

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Speaker 2: they're trying to take matters into their own hands because

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Speaker 2: this is the first class admitted after the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: banned the use of race and admissions. And there's already

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Speaker 2: been a notable impact. And for a school like Harvard,

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Speaker 2: with such a vast alumni network and a history of

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Speaker 2: churning out leaders in business and politics, that impact could

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Speaker 2: eventually mean fewer opportunities for black Americans to get ahead.

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Speaker 2: I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Today. On the show, the decline in Black

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Speaker 2: student enrollment at Harvard Law School, what it means for

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Speaker 2: students and the school, and the downstream impacts this could

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Speaker 2: have on the next generation of black professionals in law, politics, business,

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Speaker 2: and more. Law is a field where, for better or worse,

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Speaker 2: connections and credentials matter, so a Harvard degree can have

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Speaker 2: a big impact on a student's career.

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Speaker 1: Harvard's place in America is you know, it's the richest college,

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Speaker 1: being down in fifty three billion dollars, its oldest, richest,

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Speaker 1: most influential. Harvard Law School is a pathway to the

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Speaker 1: American elite.

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Speaker 2: Many black Harvard Law students' careers have taken off after graduation.

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Speaker 2: Barack and Michelle Obama are perhaps the most famous alumni.

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Speaker 1: There's been a few CEOs Ken Channel to ran American Express,

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Speaker 1: Ken Frazier, Haran Merk, Deborah Lee who ran Black Entertainment television.

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Speaker 1: And there is a Supreme.

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Speaker 2: Court justice as well, that's Ketanji Brown Jackson. But a

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Speaker 2: decade ago, Harvard was sued. The plaintiffs alleged to the

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Speaker 2: university's race conscious admissions process was illegal because it gave

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Speaker 2: favorable treatment to applicants from underrepresented backgrounds. The case went

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Speaker 2: all the way to the Supreme Court, and in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, Harvard lost in a six to three decision.

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Speaker 2: The Court said the university was discriminating against Asian American

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Speaker 2: applicants in violation of the Constitution's equal protection guarantee.

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Speaker 1: They decided that race could no longer be used in

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Speaker 1: college admissions.

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Speaker 2: Harvard and all other schools can no longer consider the

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Speaker 2: race of applicants when they make admissions decisions. And now

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Speaker 2: we're starting to understand how that case might impact admissions

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Speaker 2: at Harvard Law. A year after that Supreme Court decision,

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Speaker 2: only around three percent of first year students were black,

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Speaker 2: just nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Students, down from about forty three the previous year. It's

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Speaker 1: been a sharp decline.

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Speaker 2: Harvard Law's first year class is the largest among America's

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Speaker 2: elite law schools, but interestingly, enrollment of black students at

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Speaker 2: other elite law schools like Stanford, the University of Chicago, Yale,

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Speaker 2: and Duke actually increased. Janet says. The reason numbers may

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Speaker 2: be lower at Harvard could be because the school was

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Speaker 2: one of just two schools involved in that Supreme Court ruling,

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Speaker 2: so it has to tread carefully.

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Speaker 1: But it was surprising. This year, there were more black

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Speaker 1: first year students at Yale than at Harvard, even with

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Speaker 1: a huge difference in size.

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Speaker 2: What has Harvard said about this.

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Speaker 1: Change, Well, the law school officially doesn't really want to

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Speaker 1: say much other than their following the law. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they are a law school. They have to follow a law.

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Speaker 1: They say, We continue to believe that a student body

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Speaker 1: composed of, you know, people with a wide variety of

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Speaker 1: backgrounds and experience a vital component of a legal education. However,

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Speaker 1: they are hamstrung in what they can say about how

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Speaker 1: they're recruiting for a diverse class. They can't say anything

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Speaker 1: specifically about recruiting black students, perhaps in a way that

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Speaker 1: they would have said several years ago. They are a

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Speaker 1: name defendant.

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Speaker 2: And beyond that court case, it's no small thing for

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Speaker 2: a university like Harvard to take on the US government.

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Speaker 1: They receive a tremendous amount of federal funding, almost seven

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in the last academic year. Harvard students

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Speaker 1: receive federal student loan money. You know, if you want

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Speaker 1: to go to Harvard Law School, Harvard Business School, chances

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Speaker 1: are not everyone's going to be able to write a

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Speaker 1: check for one hundred and sixteen thousand dollars, so you're borrowing.

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Speaker 1: So they're very dependent on the government, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think universities are in a position where there's just

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Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty and there's a lot of money

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Speaker 1: at stake.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes to recruiting more black law students,

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Speaker 2: current students in h BOLSA, the Black Law Students Association

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Speaker 2: have stepped into a leading role. Janet spoke with the

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Speaker 2: group's president, Sean Wynn, who said he noticed the first

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Speaker 2: sign of declining enrollment about a year ago when admitted

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Speaker 2: students started visiting campus. Then there was that fall retreat

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Speaker 2: to Martha's Vineyard. Suddenly recruiting black students felt more urgent, as.

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Speaker 1: Sean said, one year, you know, is not good, but

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Speaker 1: if you have two years and three years, then the

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Speaker 1: whole character of the place really changes.

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Speaker 2: We spoke with one of the students who's spending time

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Speaker 2: recruiting black applicants.

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Speaker 3: I'm kuswit chum Anti, I also.

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Speaker 2: Go by KOs Coas is a second year law student

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Speaker 2: at Harvard and a member of h BALSA. She says

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Speaker 2: part of the reason she decided to become a lawyer

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Speaker 2: was seeing the powerful black lawyers who ran the NAACP

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Speaker 2: Legal Defense Fund where she worked as a college student.

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Speaker 3: Everyone in charge was a black woman, and for me,

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Speaker 3: like that meant a lot. Like I remember running into

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Speaker 3: like Sherilyn Eifel before she was going to the capital,

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Speaker 3: and she was grabbing coffee and she's like, hey, how

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Speaker 3: are you?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, ah, I feel was president of

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Speaker 2: the NAACP Legal Defense Fund at the time Coas was

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Speaker 2: working there.

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Speaker 3: I was so exciting to see people who look like

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Speaker 3: me leading a charge for something and having a meaningful impact.

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Speaker 3: And so that's actually what really pushed me to go

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Speaker 3: to law school, was seeing them in the office and

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Speaker 3: being surrounded by just incredible lawyers, but I think incredible

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Speaker 3: black lawyers.

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Speaker 2: When Coas arrived at Harvard, she immediately felt welcomed by

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Speaker 2: the older ah Bolsa students, and now she wants to

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Speaker 2: make sure future black law students feel that same sense

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Speaker 2: of belonging.

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Speaker 3: Me and two other members just actually came back from

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Speaker 3: DC last weekend and we visited for colleges. I was

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Speaker 3: just connecting with black pre law students, answering any questions

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Speaker 3: that they may have, kind of giving them an overview

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Speaker 3: of what the application process looks like. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people feel when we are going to these

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Speaker 3: defense that they're wanted. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: they sometimes turn away from applying to Harvard, despite how

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Speaker 3: good they may be, because they feel that they're not going.

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Speaker 4: To fit in.

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Speaker 3: So our biggest thing is to one provide resources for people,

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Speaker 3: but to also show them that they can find community.

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Speaker 2: Co says she's hoping that by jumping in early and

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Speaker 2: responding to the dip they saw last year, h BALSA

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Speaker 2: can make a difference in the future. But what's at

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Speaker 2: stake if their efforts aren't enough, that's after the break.

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Speaker 2: In recent decades, black alumni of Harvard Law School have

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Speaker 2: worked hard to establish a strong sense of community and

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Speaker 2: to help younger graduates professionally. Bloomberg's Janet Lauren says the

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Speaker 2: success of alumni in the nineteen sixties has helped propel

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Speaker 2: generations of alumni.

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Speaker 1: Conrad Harper was the only black student when he graduated

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five, and he ended up at Simpson

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Speaker 1: Thatcher first black partner. He headed the New York Bar Association.

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Speaker 1: Very prominent guy, and in some ways his success had

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Speaker 1: a multiplying effect on others. Simpson Thatcher has a fellowship

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Speaker 1: named in his honor in You know, when you see

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Speaker 1: someone who's been successful and their path could potentially be replicated,

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Speaker 1: that's important. And now, as one of the law professors

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Speaker 1: at Harvard that I've spoken to, David Wilkins talked about,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't want that avenue to be constricted

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: Someone who has followed that path is John Carr. He

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Speaker 2: graduated from Harvard Law in nineteen eighty three, and like Harper,

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Speaker 2: he spent his career at the New York law firm

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Speaker 2: Simpson Thatcher today, he's worried about avenues of opportunity for

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Speaker 2: Black Americans being narrowed as more and more anti dei

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Speaker 2: initiatives become accepted in the law.

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Speaker 1: He told me that it feels like we'ren't a new

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Speaker 1: Jim Crow, speaking of what the segregated South was for

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Speaker 1: a very very long time.

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Speaker 2: Janet also spoke with Deborah Lee, Harvard Law class of

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty She's the former chairman and CEO of Black

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Speaker 2: Entertainment Television. Lee was among a group of black alumni

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Speaker 2: who joined a Zoom call late last year to discuss

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Speaker 2: the drop in enrollment. She told Janet that she wants

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Speaker 2: to help the law school recruit better and make sure

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Speaker 2: the numbers don't fall. She said that much more needs

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Speaker 2: to be done. After the Supreme Court decision, Harvard had

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Speaker 2: to make significant changes to its application process. There's no

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Speaker 2: longer a race box that admissions officers will consider, but

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Speaker 2: the school says it still values diversity and so it

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Speaker 2: asks questions to learn more about the backgrounds of its applicants.

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Speaker 2: There are now prompts for two essays, a statement of

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Speaker 2: purpose and a statement of perspective.

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Speaker 1: They're very open ended, and a statement of perspective is

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Speaker 1: looking backwards and is an invitation to share something about

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Speaker 1: how you grew up. Perhaps it says, please share how

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Speaker 1: your experiences background in our interests have shaped you and

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Speaker 1: will shape your engagement in the Harvard Law School community

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Speaker 1: and the legal profession.

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Speaker 2: COS and other members of the Harvard Black Law Students

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Speaker 2: Association have been creating informational materials, visiting college campuses, and

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Speaker 2: reading essays. When they meet with prospective students, CO says

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Speaker 2: they try to make it clear those students can acknowledge

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Speaker 2: their identities in their applications.

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Speaker 3: I guess A big question that we get is like

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Speaker 3: whether or not they can talk about their blackness and

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Speaker 3: their materials. A lot of people will ask like should

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Speaker 3: I take off from my resume that I was like

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Speaker 3: the president of our black student union, or like should

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Speaker 3: I not talk about my race at all? And I

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Speaker 3: tell them like, no, Like, that's the part of your identity.

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Speaker 3: It is an important part of you, of who you are,

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Speaker 3: and when you link it to the other experience that

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Speaker 3: you have, it makes a story more whole and complete.

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Speaker 3: Race is not something that you should feel the need

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Speaker 3: to hide.

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Speaker 2: Co says that information isn't just important into a perspective

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Speaker 2: student's application, it will also shape their perspective on the

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Speaker 2: law and their understanding of it, which is why she

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Speaker 2: says representation is important.

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Speaker 3: I think in a law school the whole point is

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Speaker 3: to be exposed those ideas and to uplift people with

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Speaker 3: different voices. And so when you see a case like

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Speaker 3: this and maybe the impact of it you do worry about.

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Speaker 3: You know, whether or not the legal feel is going

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Speaker 3: to be reflective of our country and our world and

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Speaker 3: what that means then for the type of issues that

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Speaker 3: are going to be uplifted. The perspectives that will be heard.

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Speaker 2: That's something Katanji Brown Jackson, who went to Harvard College

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Speaker 2: and Harvard Law School, spoke of quite emotionally during her

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court confirmation hearings in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: I was walking through Harvard Yard my freshman year.

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Speaker 2: Jackson described the imposter syndrome she felt upon arriving on.

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Speaker 4: Campus the first semester. I was really homesick. I was

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Speaker 4: really questioning do I belong here.

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Speaker 2: One night, jack passed by a black woman she didn't

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Speaker 2: know on the sidewalk in Harvard Yard.

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Speaker 4: And she looked at me, and I guess she knew

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Speaker 4: how I was feeling.

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Speaker 2: And just as they crossed paths, the woman told her persevere.

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Speaker 2: And that's the message Jackson hoped to deliver to the

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Speaker 2: young people watching her become the first black woman on

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: The young people are the future, and so I want

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Speaker 4: them to know that they can do and be anything.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, Jackson was one of three justices

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Speaker 2: who voted against the Court's Affirmative Action ruling, although she

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Speaker 2: participated only in a parallel case involving the University of

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Speaker 2: North Carolina. Since she previously served on Harvard's Board of Overseers.

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Speaker 2: Justice Jackson wrote in her descent quote, Ultimately, ignoring race

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Speaker 2: just makes it matter more. This is the Big Take

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Speaker 2: from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gera. This episode is produced

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Speaker 2: by Julia Press. It was edited by Tracy Samuelson and

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Fournier. Special thanks to Greg Store and Elizabeth Wasserman.

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Speaker 2: It was mixed and sound designed by Alex Secura and

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Speaker 2: fact check by Adriana Tapia. Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven.

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Speaker 2: Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is

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Speaker 2: na Coole Beamster Boorg Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts.

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Speaker 2: If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and

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Speaker 2: review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It

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Speaker 2: helps people find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be

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Speaker 2: back tomorrow