WEBVTT - The Science of Loneliness 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:32.356 Pushkin. You know, if I told you there's this pill 0:00:32.676 --> 0:00:36.316 that you could take that's available for free in pharmacies 0:00:36.316 --> 0:00:38.436 all across the country, that if you take it will 0:00:38.476 --> 0:00:42.156 reduce your chances of feeling depressed or anxious, that will 0:00:42.316 --> 0:00:45.236 reduce your risk of premature death and heart disease, and 0:00:45.356 --> 0:00:49.356 might actually make society more peaceful and less vitriolic. You 0:00:49.396 --> 0:00:51.516 would say, gosh, well, where is this thing? Sign me up. 0:00:52.196 --> 0:00:56.036 That's doctor Vivic Morphy, the US Surgeon General, And what 0:00:56.116 --> 0:00:59.996 he's prescribing here isn't actually a pill. It's more meaningful 0:01:00.076 --> 0:01:03.316 social connection, something many of us are lacking right now. 0:01:04.076 --> 0:01:06.876 Loneliness is not something it's just affecting a few people 0:01:06.916 --> 0:01:10.076 here and there. It is affecting an ordinarily high portion 0:01:10.116 --> 0:01:13.116 of the population. There are more adults who are struggling 0:01:13.436 --> 0:01:16.876 with loneliness than have diabetes in the United States. So 0:01:17.196 --> 0:01:19.716 we have to help people recognize that this is a 0:01:19.756 --> 0:01:22.676 public health threat, one that we can address, but we've 0:01:22.676 --> 0:01:25.276 got to put it on the map of critical issues 0:01:25.276 --> 0:01:31.916 and priorities for our country. On today's show, our nation's 0:01:31.956 --> 0:01:34.916 doctor tells us just how dangerous loneliness can be for 0:01:34.996 --> 0:01:39.116 our health and gives us strategies for building stronger social connections. 0:01:40.356 --> 0:01:43.356 I'm maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 0:01:43.756 --> 0:01:45.956 a show about who we are and who we become 0:01:46.276 --> 0:01:56.116 in the face of a big change. In addition to 0:01:56.236 --> 0:01:59.316 serving as a certain general, doctor Morphe is also the 0:01:59.356 --> 0:02:02.956 author of Together, The Healing Power of Human Connection in 0:02:02.996 --> 0:02:06.596 a sometimes Lonely World. He's an expert on the science 0:02:06.636 --> 0:02:09.076 of loneliness, which is something he never thought would be 0:02:09.156 --> 0:02:12.156 the focus of his work. After all, he's trained as 0:02:12.156 --> 0:02:16.076 a medical doctor. But back when Viveik was a practicing physician, 0:02:16.396 --> 0:02:18.836 he met a patient who made the link between physical 0:02:18.876 --> 0:02:22.836 health and loneliness impossible to ignore. I saw him in 0:02:22.876 --> 0:02:25.676 clinic one day and one of the first things he 0:02:25.756 --> 0:02:28.476 said to me on our first visit, well, doctor, you 0:02:28.556 --> 0:02:31.436 might be surprised to know that I've actually won the lottery. 0:02:32.476 --> 0:02:34.716 And I thought he was speaking in a metaphorical sense, 0:02:34.876 --> 0:02:38.556 but he wasn't. He's being quite literal. And he said, yeah, 0:02:38.596 --> 0:02:40.756 you know, I won the lottery, but I got to 0:02:40.756 --> 0:02:42.716 tell you it was probably the worst thing that happened 0:02:42.716 --> 0:02:46.196 to me, and that really surprised me. So he had 0:02:46.236 --> 0:02:48.436 my attention before, but now he really had me leaning in, 0:02:48.876 --> 0:02:51.836 and he proceeded to explain to me that prior to 0:02:51.876 --> 0:02:54.116 winning the lottery, he was a chef at a restaurant 0:02:54.116 --> 0:02:57.396 in Boston, and you know, he wasn't rich, but he 0:02:57.516 --> 0:03:00.156 did okay. He was able to pay his rent. He 0:03:00.396 --> 0:03:03.236 had neighbors that he liked, he had people he worked 0:03:03.236 --> 0:03:05.476 with in the kitchen who were great, he had clients 0:03:05.476 --> 0:03:08.316 who really loved his food. And he worked incredibly hard 0:03:08.356 --> 0:03:11.236 and that was his life. But after he won the lottery, 0:03:11.476 --> 0:03:14.076 for a number of years he had very large checks 0:03:14.076 --> 0:03:15.956 coming to him, and he sort of decided, gosh, I 0:03:15.956 --> 0:03:18.236 don't need to work anymore. I don't need to live 0:03:18.236 --> 0:03:19.756 in the neighborhood that I live, and I can move 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:22.356 somewhere that's like big and fancy and I have a 0:03:22.476 --> 0:03:24.956 large house all to myself. And so he did. He 0:03:25.036 --> 0:03:27.996 quit his job. He moved to a part of Massachusetts, 0:03:28.036 --> 0:03:31.356 metic Sea, where wealthy folks typically live, and he found 0:03:32.076 --> 0:03:35.556 over time that he was profoundly alone. And he would 0:03:35.596 --> 0:03:37.236 describe this to me. He said, you know, I don't 0:03:37.276 --> 0:03:40.196 have like my co workers anymore to hang out with. 0:03:40.236 --> 0:03:42.476 I wasn't getting the satisfaction of people eating my food 0:03:42.516 --> 0:03:44.316 and saying, oh, my God, how did you create this? 0:03:44.316 --> 0:03:46.716 This is incredible. But he didn't have his neighbors to 0:03:46.836 --> 0:03:48.756 chat with. He wasn't just seeing people walking up and 0:03:48.756 --> 0:03:50.836 down his street anymore. Instead, he was living in a 0:03:50.876 --> 0:03:54.556 house where they were big walls between the houses and 0:03:54.636 --> 0:03:57.996 fences and it was just him and his dog. And 0:03:58.236 --> 0:04:00.356 he said it was after that that he started to 0:04:00.396 --> 0:04:03.836 develop high blood pressure and diabetes, and that you are 0:04:03.956 --> 0:04:07.116 sort of experiencing mental health concerns as well. And he 0:04:07.196 --> 0:04:10.716 chalked it up to the lonely and isolation that came 0:04:10.876 --> 0:04:13.956 from that experience, a major shift in his life. Yeah, 0:04:13.996 --> 0:04:17.316 and you've said that you were so humbled in this 0:04:17.396 --> 0:04:20.916 moment because your medical training had not prepared you to 0:04:20.916 --> 0:04:25.356 help patients struggling with loneliness. It was a sobering moment 0:04:25.356 --> 0:04:28.876 because you go into medicine wanting to relieve suffering. I 0:04:28.916 --> 0:04:31.236 went into medicine because I wanted to do what I 0:04:31.236 --> 0:04:33.556 saw my parents doing when I was growing up and 0:04:33.876 --> 0:04:36.756 the medical clinic they ran down in Miami, Florida, which 0:04:36.796 --> 0:04:39.196 is I wanted to be able to take care of 0:04:39.196 --> 0:04:41.756 the problems that patients had. And I realized that I 0:04:41.796 --> 0:04:43.716 learned about a lot of those problems in medical school, 0:04:43.756 --> 0:04:46.516 I learned about everything in the structure of cells and 0:04:46.596 --> 0:04:50.716 mechanisms of inflammation, to how to manage somebody's diabetes, how 0:04:50.756 --> 0:04:54.276 to adjust their blood pressure medications, how to treat them 0:04:54.276 --> 0:04:56.556 if their hearts stopped. Like, I learned a lot, but 0:04:56.676 --> 0:04:59.356 I wasn't recalling a single thing that I had really 0:04:59.436 --> 0:05:02.276 learned about loneliness because it wasn't part of our curricula. 0:05:02.476 --> 0:05:05.476 It wasn't something that we understood to be one of 0:05:05.516 --> 0:05:08.116 the most common challenges our patients would face, even though 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:11.076 it turned out that's exactly what it was. So I 0:05:11.116 --> 0:05:13.996 did feel a sense of sadness in that moment, but 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:16.836 it was also a realization that Gosh I needed to 0:05:16.876 --> 0:05:20.796 figure out how to fill this gap in my medical knowledge. 0:05:21.076 --> 0:05:23.396 Time after time, seeing patience in the hospital, I came 0:05:23.436 --> 0:05:26.556 to realize that so many of them were struggling with loneliness. 0:05:26.596 --> 0:05:29.676 People would come into the hospital alone in ten moments 0:05:29.676 --> 0:05:32.716 where we had really difficult information to give to them. 0:05:32.716 --> 0:05:34.676 Maybe it was about a new diagnosis, or maybe it's 0:05:34.716 --> 0:05:37.076 a hard decision we had to make about whether or 0:05:37.116 --> 0:05:40.116 not to go for surgery or start a new treatment regiment, 0:05:40.196 --> 0:05:41.876 or whether or not to stop a treatment for a 0:05:41.876 --> 0:05:45.436 condition that wasn't responding. In those moments, I would often ask, patience, 0:05:45.516 --> 0:05:47.756 is there somebody I can call? Who you want to 0:05:47.876 --> 0:05:50.276 be here while we have this conversation. No, might be tough, 0:05:50.796 --> 0:05:52.676 but far too often they would say, gosh, I wish 0:05:52.716 --> 0:05:55.276 there was somebody, but there isn't anyone. Just have to 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:59.716 have a conversation by myself. And I think most heartbreaking though, 0:05:59.756 --> 0:06:03.156 for me, was the final moments of life during people's death. 0:06:03.676 --> 0:06:06.756 There were so many times where the only people witnessing 0:06:06.756 --> 0:06:09.916 those final moments for a patient was me and my 0:06:09.996 --> 0:06:13.076 colleagues in the hospital, but there was no family member 0:06:13.156 --> 0:06:16.076 or friend who was actually there by the bedside. So 0:06:16.076 --> 0:06:18.396 seeing that time and time again just made me realize 0:06:18.396 --> 0:06:21.596 that loneliness is more than a passing concern. It's more 0:06:21.596 --> 0:06:24.236 than an isolated issue that only affects a few people. 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:27.516 It was affecting so many of the people that I saw, 0:06:27.556 --> 0:06:29.956 and later when I became sort of gentle I came 0:06:29.996 --> 0:06:32.156 to see that it wasn't just unique to my experience, 0:06:32.476 --> 0:06:36.116 but loneliness is impacting people all across our country. Yeah, 0:06:36.156 --> 0:06:39.596 impacting them in manifesting in the form of lots of 0:06:39.756 --> 0:06:44.636 medical conditions. Right like high blood pressure, diabetes, And that is, 0:06:44.676 --> 0:06:47.836 I think, something that many people don't recognize. Even if 0:06:47.876 --> 0:06:52.596 they appreciate that loneliness is incredibly common, they may not 0:06:52.636 --> 0:06:55.716 necessarily know how consequential it is both for our mental 0:06:55.756 --> 0:06:59.436 health and our physical health. It increases our risk of 0:06:59.476 --> 0:07:02.956 anxiety and depression, but also our risk of premature death, 0:07:03.316 --> 0:07:06.436 of heart disease, of dementia, and of a host of 0:07:06.436 --> 0:07:09.716 other physical illnesses that we care deeply about. But it 0:07:09.836 --> 0:07:13.436 also has an effect that's comparable and in some cases 0:07:13.476 --> 0:07:16.036 even greater than what we see with other conditions we 0:07:16.076 --> 0:07:19.316 care about. Take, for example, smoking, Some great studies actually 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:22.796 about bringing young University have showed us that the mortality 0:07:22.876 --> 0:07:27.356 impact of loneliness in fact is comparable to the mortality 0:07:27.356 --> 0:07:31.036 impact of smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. It's even greater 0:07:31.236 --> 0:07:34.316 than the mortality impact that we see with obesity and 0:07:34.356 --> 0:07:37.556 with substance use disorders. Now just pause for a second 0:07:37.556 --> 0:07:40.356 and think about how much time, effort, and energy we 0:07:40.396 --> 0:07:44.236 spend in combating smoking and obesity and substance use disorders 0:07:44.316 --> 0:07:47.796 because of extraordinary toll they take on society. But think 0:07:47.796 --> 0:07:51.636 about how little we actually tackle loneliness, or little we 0:07:51.676 --> 0:07:54.636 invest in thinking about our strategies for addressing it. So 0:07:54.996 --> 0:07:57.516 we have to help people recognize that this is a 0:07:57.596 --> 0:08:00.476 public health threat, one that we can address, but we've 0:08:00.516 --> 0:08:03.076 got to put it on the map of critical issues 0:08:03.116 --> 0:08:06.716 and priorities for our country. Yeah, to help us better 0:08:06.796 --> 0:08:11.156 understand loneliness and its consequences. I'd love to hear why 0:08:11.236 --> 0:08:14.116 we as humans have come to need social connection in 0:08:14.116 --> 0:08:18.836 the way that we do. We evolved to need each 0:08:18.836 --> 0:08:21.876 other and to depend on one another because it turned 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:24.396 out that we could do far more together than we 0:08:24.396 --> 0:08:27.196 could do alone. So simple example, like when we were 0:08:27.236 --> 0:08:29.476 a hunter gatherers. You know, if you were one of 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:31.236 those folks who said, you know what, I'm going to 0:08:31.276 --> 0:08:32.956 do it on my own, I don't need anyone else. 0:08:33.436 --> 0:08:35.956 What happened to that person is they either got eaten 0:08:35.956 --> 0:08:38.796 by a predator, they starve because of an insufficient food supply. 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:42.276 And it turned out that when we actually helped one another, 0:08:42.316 --> 0:08:44.876 when we looked, took turns looking out around the you know, 0:08:45.156 --> 0:08:47.636 at night, for predators, When we shared our food supply 0:08:47.756 --> 0:08:49.516 so that none of us start on any given day, 0:08:49.516 --> 0:08:51.556 when we help each other with childcare, when we did 0:08:51.596 --> 0:08:54.596 these things, we actually were all more able to survive 0:08:54.636 --> 0:08:58.116 and thrive and prosper, and so it became then part 0:08:58.156 --> 0:09:01.276 of our nervous systems wiring, if you will, that when 0:09:01.316 --> 0:09:04.276 we were separated from one another, it actually put us 0:09:04.276 --> 0:09:07.956 into stress. Day. Yeah, one of the most fascinating insights 0:09:07.956 --> 0:09:10.756 that I gleaned from your book is that loneliness can 0:09:10.796 --> 0:09:14.356 be self perpetuating. Right, So, being in a lonely state 0:09:14.356 --> 0:09:17.956 of mind can actually sabotage our ability to meaningfully connect 0:09:17.956 --> 0:09:22.076 with others. This is one of the counterintuitive things about loneliness. 0:09:22.116 --> 0:09:26.156 But when we feel lonely, there are mechanisms triggered in 0:09:26.236 --> 0:09:30.156 our body that can actually perpetuate loneliness. One of them 0:09:30.316 --> 0:09:35.156 is that our threat perception increases, and what that means 0:09:35.236 --> 0:09:38.076 is that we are more likely to perceive what might 0:09:38.116 --> 0:09:42.676 be normal everyday interactions or gestures around us as threats. So, 0:09:42.716 --> 0:09:45.156 for example, if I'm feeling lonely and I'm in this 0:09:45.196 --> 0:09:48.356 state of elevated threat and you approach me, my Dusty, Hey, 0:09:48.396 --> 0:09:49.916 big I was wondering do you want to have lunch 0:09:49.996 --> 0:09:52.996 together today? Normally I might say, Hey, that's really nice. 0:09:52.996 --> 0:09:55.676 She's reaching out, and maybe you notice that I'm lonely, 0:09:56.036 --> 0:09:58.796 but in a state of elevator threat, which shifts my perception. 0:09:58.796 --> 0:10:01.996 I might think, does she have another motive here? Why 0:10:02.116 --> 0:10:03.556 she reaching out to me? And she's just trying to 0:10:03.556 --> 0:10:05.236 take pity on me? And she going to make fun 0:10:05.276 --> 0:10:06.556 of me, and she's trying to ridicule me in some 0:10:06.596 --> 0:10:08.636 way to sh have an ulterior motive. I might start 0:10:08.676 --> 0:10:11.316 asking questions which might either lead me to say no 0:10:11.596 --> 0:10:13.516 or alter my interactions with you in a way that 0:10:13.556 --> 0:10:15.996 may be unpleasant. So you start to push people away 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:17.556 at a time where you need to pull them in. 0:10:18.316 --> 0:10:20.716 The second thing that happens is that our focus shifts 0:10:20.796 --> 0:10:24.356 in work toward ourselves. And if you understand loneliness is 0:10:24.396 --> 0:10:27.036 a state of stress and threat, you start to understand 0:10:27.036 --> 0:10:28.636 why that makes sense. If we're under a threat, we 0:10:28.676 --> 0:10:30.676 do want to focus on ourselves and make sure we're well. 0:10:31.236 --> 0:10:34.196 But that increased focus on self in some case excessive 0:10:34.196 --> 0:10:36.956 focus on self can also be off putting to others 0:10:36.956 --> 0:10:38.876 who might think, oh, that person is aloof for their 0:10:38.916 --> 0:10:42.716 too self absorbed, or they seem narcissistic. And there's a 0:10:42.836 --> 0:10:45.236 third dynamic that's happening here too, which is that the 0:10:45.316 --> 0:10:48.916 lonelier we are, the more we come to believe that 0:10:48.956 --> 0:10:52.316 we're lonely because we're not likable, so loneliness chips away 0:10:52.316 --> 0:10:54.756 at our self esteem, which can make it even harder 0:10:54.796 --> 0:10:56.476 to take their risk of going out and talking to 0:10:56.516 --> 0:10:59.076 people new people, but also folks that we know, and 0:10:59.076 --> 0:11:01.836 that can perpetuate loneliness. And that's why we have to 0:11:02.436 --> 0:11:04.836 want to recognize that, and that if we understand that, 0:11:04.836 --> 0:11:07.636 that may give you an added reason to be empathic 0:11:07.636 --> 0:11:09.876 and understanding towards others who may seem might they are 0:11:10.076 --> 0:11:12.716 self absorbed, or or may seem might they're or aloof, 0:11:12.716 --> 0:11:15.116 they in fact may be struggling with loneliness. I know 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:16.716 that has been true for me, and I'm not proud 0:11:16.756 --> 0:11:18.636 of those moments where I have been aloof and have 0:11:18.716 --> 0:11:20.956 pushed other people away at times where I really needed them. 0:11:21.236 --> 0:11:23.756 We all have, but we all have, and I will 0:11:23.796 --> 0:11:26.756 tell you I so deeply appreciate the people who stuck 0:11:26.756 --> 0:11:29.276 by me, yeah, despite me being who I was, and 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:32.356 who reminded me what we all need to be reminded of, 0:11:32.556 --> 0:11:34.756 which is that we are not alone. That there are 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.796 people who see us for who we are and who 0:11:37.836 --> 0:11:41.396 still care about us. I was reflecting back the other 0:11:41.476 --> 0:11:44.876 day on my own periods of loneliness and anxiety and everything, 0:11:44.876 --> 0:11:46.956 and being like, oh my god, your souls self absorbed 0:11:46.996 --> 0:11:49.676 and your friends back then are still your friends today, 0:11:49.716 --> 0:11:51.556 So you should just like give them all huge hugs 0:11:51.636 --> 0:11:54.316 because they deserve it, a golden medal for sticking by 0:11:54.356 --> 0:11:57.716 me when I was at my peak narcissism. You know, 0:11:57.796 --> 0:12:00.916 it really feels. And the research corroborates this that our 0:12:00.956 --> 0:12:05.516 minds are wired for social connection. And there are these 0:12:05.676 --> 0:12:08.676 fascinating neuroimaging studies that I read about in your book 0:12:08.676 --> 0:12:12.116 The Ones by Matthew Lieberman. Yea. So one interesting thing 0:12:12.156 --> 0:12:15.876 that Matthew Lieberman found is that when our brains are 0:12:15.876 --> 0:12:19.756 effectively shut off, like when we're not interacting with other people, 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:23.676 that our default mode is actually to process and make 0:12:23.916 --> 0:12:27.476 sense of, if you will, the social connections and relationships 0:12:27.476 --> 0:12:29.916 that we have, whether we're introverts or extroverts, whether we're 0:12:29.916 --> 0:12:33.276 interacting with people or not, our brain is processing those 0:12:33.316 --> 0:12:35.876 connections and using them to make sense of the broader world. 0:12:36.316 --> 0:12:39.916 It's actually another indication of just how we are hardwired 0:12:39.956 --> 0:12:43.076 to connect as human beings. And again, sometimes people hear 0:12:43.116 --> 0:12:44.756 them and think, oh, we're all meant to be extroverts. No, 0:12:45.276 --> 0:12:47.156 We're not all meant to be extroverts, and I say 0:12:47.156 --> 0:12:50.916 that as an introvert myself, but we are all meant 0:12:50.956 --> 0:12:54.316 and designed to thrive in part because of our relationships, 0:12:54.316 --> 0:12:56.156 and we need those, and in the absence of those, 0:12:56.516 --> 0:12:59.396 we struggle and we suffer. And you know, it's interesting 0:12:59.396 --> 0:13:01.996 because it's tied into how we experience pain as well. 0:13:02.316 --> 0:13:06.196 You know, we think about pain as a purely physical phenomenon. Well, 0:13:06.236 --> 0:13:08.716 one of the things that people like Matthew Lieberman and 0:13:08.756 --> 0:13:13.196 Callie have found is that when you experience emotional pain, 0:13:14.036 --> 0:13:17.876 it registers in your brain as well as pain. We 0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:21.396 used to hear people say often when people were struggling 0:13:21.436 --> 0:13:24.716 with emotional difficulties in life and where they've felt actually 0:13:24.716 --> 0:13:27.076 physical manifestations, you would hear people say, yeah, it's all 0:13:27.076 --> 0:13:29.516 in your head, right. Yeah. It turns out that may 0:13:29.556 --> 0:13:31.636 be literally true, but in a way that makes it 0:13:31.676 --> 0:13:34.276 even more real, which is a yes, that emotional pain 0:13:34.316 --> 0:13:37.436 does register in your brain, which is where all pain registers. 0:13:37.476 --> 0:13:40.596 For what it's worth exactly, and it can feel as 0:13:40.676 --> 0:13:43.996 real and as hard to manage as a physical pain 0:13:44.036 --> 0:13:46.396 that we endure. I mentioned this because one of the 0:13:46.396 --> 0:13:48.676 reasons I've been so concerned about loneliness is I see 0:13:48.716 --> 0:13:52.116 this as one of the most common sources of emotional 0:13:52.156 --> 0:13:55.476 pain that people are experiencing right now. And people are 0:13:55.516 --> 0:13:57.756 in pain, then we have to talk about how we 0:13:57.796 --> 0:14:01.436 address that. After the break, the vehicle will give us 0:14:01.436 --> 0:14:07.236 strategies for building more meaningful social connections with others. We'll 0:14:07.276 --> 0:14:09.676 be back in a moment with a slight chain of plans. 0:14:23.276 --> 0:14:26.916 We're back with us, Surgeon General the vague morphy. In 0:14:26.996 --> 0:14:30.836 order to create a culture of greater connectedness, the Vague says, 0:14:30.916 --> 0:14:34.196 we first have to understand what loneliness really looks and 0:14:34.316 --> 0:14:37.956 feels like, because there are many misconceptions out there. We 0:14:38.036 --> 0:14:41.396 have this stereotype of loneliness. We think about the person 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:43.836 who's socially awkward, who's sitting in the corner of a 0:14:43.916 --> 0:14:46.156 room at a party of all by themselves. Yeah, and 0:14:46.236 --> 0:14:49.156 that is so not the picture of loneliness. And as 0:14:49.316 --> 0:14:52.916 Surgeon General, when I was in the Obama administration, I 0:14:52.276 --> 0:14:55.436 was surrounded by people all the time, you know, And 0:14:55.916 --> 0:14:58.676 I was constantly at events, as constantly in meetings, as 0:14:58.716 --> 0:15:02.556 constantly at all kinds of engagements. But I was struggling 0:15:02.556 --> 0:15:05.836 with a profound sense of loneliness during that time because 0:15:05.876 --> 0:15:10.716 I had made what I recognize now critical mistake, which 0:15:10.836 --> 0:15:13.156 I had convinced myself that in order to make the 0:15:13.196 --> 0:15:15.716 most of this opportunity to serve, I had to give 0:15:15.796 --> 0:15:18.956 up everything else. I had to sacrifice my time both 0:15:19.076 --> 0:15:21.836 family and friends, and always, always, always put work first. 0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:24.876 But what I realized is that came at an extraordinary 0:15:24.916 --> 0:15:28.636 cost to me personally, and it turned out that I 0:15:28.756 --> 0:15:30.836 was not as well sustained in the work as I 0:15:30.836 --> 0:15:33.556 otherwise would have been if I had realized that I 0:15:33.596 --> 0:15:39.036 needed to focus on keeping my relationships present and keeping 0:15:39.036 --> 0:15:42.116 them close. Yeah, you talked about the stereotypes that day, 0:15:42.236 --> 0:15:44.636 and one thing you clarify in your book, which I 0:15:44.636 --> 0:15:47.476 think is so helpful for us as we build mental 0:15:47.516 --> 0:15:52.116 models of what loneliness is that loneliness is a subjective feeling. Right, 0:15:52.156 --> 0:15:54.516 It is a state of mind that we are lacking 0:15:55.036 --> 0:15:58.356 the social connections that we need. Right, we feel we 0:15:58.396 --> 0:16:02.476 are missing trust and closeness, or might feel abandoned. But 0:16:02.556 --> 0:16:05.956 it really is defined by this internal feeling, and you 0:16:05.956 --> 0:16:08.756 make it a point to distinguish that from other states 0:16:08.876 --> 0:16:13.636 like isolation and solitude. It is very important. Loneliness is 0:16:13.636 --> 0:16:16.236 a subjective term. It's when the connections we need in 0:16:16.276 --> 0:16:19.156 our life see the connections that we actually have, and 0:16:19.236 --> 0:16:22.356 in that gap we feel lonely. Isolation is a more 0:16:22.436 --> 0:16:25.636 objective description of the number of people we may have 0:16:25.676 --> 0:16:28.036 around us, for the number of social contacts that we 0:16:28.076 --> 0:16:32.076 may have, but one could be relatively isolated. You can 0:16:32.156 --> 0:16:34.876 have few contacts, but you may not feel lonely at all, 0:16:34.956 --> 0:16:39.076 because it's really about the quality of those connections, and 0:16:39.196 --> 0:16:43.116 solitude is different altogether. Solitude is a welcome state of 0:16:43.156 --> 0:16:47.476 a loneness. It's a state which can be renewing. Solitude 0:16:47.556 --> 0:16:49.836 is those moments where we may be physically alone, but 0:16:49.876 --> 0:16:53.556 where we actually connect with something that replenishes us and 0:16:53.676 --> 0:16:56.676 nourishes us. That might be just time in silence, meditating. 0:16:56.676 --> 0:16:58.876 It might be time in nature. It may be time 0:16:58.916 --> 0:17:02.316 that we spend in prayer, maybe time that we spend writing. However, 0:17:02.356 --> 0:17:05.356 we find it that time in solitude is actually very 0:17:05.356 --> 0:17:08.476 important for everyone, whether an introvert or an extrovert. What 0:17:08.596 --> 0:17:11.436 differs maybe how much time in solitude we need in 0:17:11.436 --> 0:17:13.796 our lives. But there's one last thing here that is 0:17:13.796 --> 0:17:16.756 really important to recognize, which is that if you recognize 0:17:16.756 --> 0:17:19.956 that loneliness is subjective state where the connections we need 0:17:20.196 --> 0:17:22.796 are great. In the connections we have, one question is 0:17:22.796 --> 0:17:26.036 how do we know what connections we need, how much 0:17:26.036 --> 0:17:29.796 connection we need? It turns out that this is something 0:17:29.836 --> 0:17:33.036 that can be influenced in ways that can be harmful 0:17:33.076 --> 0:17:35.756 to us. So imagine that we live in a relatively 0:17:35.876 --> 0:17:41.516 extroverted culture, which we do surrounded and immersed in platforms 0:17:41.556 --> 0:17:44.396 like let's say social media, for example, which may lead 0:17:44.476 --> 0:17:47.596 us to think that the kind of optimal social engagement 0:17:47.596 --> 0:17:50.716 we need is incredibly high. Where we're going to parties 0:17:50.756 --> 0:17:53.356 all the time, where we're constantly going on vacations with friends, 0:17:53.476 --> 0:17:57.116 or we're surrounded by people that can affect Sorry, what 0:17:57.236 --> 0:18:00.116 is this party of which you speak? I don't know. 0:18:01.236 --> 0:18:02.876 It turns out I didn't attend many of them in 0:18:02.916 --> 0:18:08.636 college either. I missed out. But you know, if you 0:18:08.636 --> 0:18:12.756 are growing up in an environment where the bar is 0:18:12.956 --> 0:18:15.316 shifted for you and you're made to feel like you 0:18:15.396 --> 0:18:17.876 need to be engaging with people all the time, that's 0:18:17.956 --> 0:18:20.196 an optimal level of engagement. Then even if you are 0:18:20.236 --> 0:18:23.316 engaging with people at the pace that feels right to you, 0:18:23.316 --> 0:18:25.836 you might feel like something is wrong. And this part 0:18:25.956 --> 0:18:28.756 is incredibly important because when you feel worse about yourself, 0:18:28.756 --> 0:18:30.996 it makes it harder for you to reach out and 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.796 connect with other people, especially new people, because it feels 0:18:33.796 --> 0:18:36.636 like taking your risk. And again, if you are struggling 0:18:36.676 --> 0:18:39.276 in terms of your self esteem, those risks become much 0:18:39.356 --> 0:18:42.596 much harder to take. Yeah, so let's give listeners some 0:18:42.636 --> 0:18:45.276 hope for fake because we're all feeling in this moment 0:18:45.316 --> 0:18:48.916 a little bit verdened by the consequences of loneliness. And so, 0:18:49.516 --> 0:18:51.196 you know, one thing you say when it comes to 0:18:51.236 --> 0:18:53.916 staving off loneliness, the first thing that we all need 0:18:53.956 --> 0:18:57.876 to just accept is that loneliness is this natural signal 0:18:57.916 --> 0:18:59.956 to us that we need to connect with other people. 0:18:59.996 --> 0:19:03.636 I love you say, it's akin to feeling hungry or thirsty, 0:19:03.756 --> 0:19:06.516 and the fact that those signals tell you, oh, I 0:19:06.596 --> 0:19:08.716 probably need to eat or drink something. And so there's 0:19:08.716 --> 0:19:11.756 just this acceptance that we have this vital need for 0:19:11.796 --> 0:19:14.596 social connection and we should just lean in. What are 0:19:14.636 --> 0:19:18.756 other techniques that people can use to try and stave 0:19:18.796 --> 0:19:21.436 off loneliness in their lives. There are few things that 0:19:21.476 --> 0:19:23.756 I think about in this regard. So one is to 0:19:23.796 --> 0:19:28.076 recognize that connection to self is a foundation for connecting 0:19:28.076 --> 0:19:30.316 with other people. What does that mean to connect with yourself, Well, 0:19:30.636 --> 0:19:33.596 it means to know that you have worth and that 0:19:33.676 --> 0:19:36.516 you have value. And look, if you're like me, you've 0:19:36.556 --> 0:19:38.516 gone through many periods in your life where you've questioned 0:19:38.516 --> 0:19:40.596 that you know, because it's not about how much money 0:19:40.596 --> 0:19:42.316 you have in the bank or how longer list of 0:19:42.316 --> 0:19:45.076 accomplishments are. Like, all of us have moments of self doubt, 0:19:45.556 --> 0:19:47.956 but that's actually when we need things that we can 0:19:48.036 --> 0:19:51.036 reach for that remind us that we have worth and value. 0:19:51.476 --> 0:19:55.436 Connecting with other people is also really essential, of course, 0:19:55.516 --> 0:19:58.276 in the battle against loneliness. But again, small steps can 0:19:58.316 --> 0:20:00.956 go a long way. So just taking, for example, a 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:03.236 few minutes each day to reach out to one person 0:20:03.356 --> 0:20:05.396 that you care about. It could be a quick phone 0:20:05.396 --> 0:20:07.116 call that you make on the way to work. It 0:20:07.156 --> 0:20:09.756 could be a quick text message that you send to 0:20:09.836 --> 0:20:12.036 check in on someone. It could be a video call 0:20:12.116 --> 0:20:13.636 that you make before you go to sleep to talk 0:20:13.676 --> 0:20:17.316 to your parents or your kids. Those few minutes can 0:20:17.396 --> 0:20:20.156 make us feel so deeply connected. But the other thing 0:20:20.196 --> 0:20:23.556 that helps us is to be present when we are 0:20:23.556 --> 0:20:26.516 connected with other people. So if you're like me, you've 0:20:26.556 --> 0:20:29.036 probably made the mistake of catching up with their friend. 0:20:29.116 --> 0:20:31.676 But then somehow, like your hands sneaked into your pocket, 0:20:31.716 --> 0:20:33.956 you've got your phone. You're like checking the scores on 0:20:34.556 --> 0:20:36.956 ESPN dot com or freshing your inbox, doing all kinds 0:20:36.956 --> 0:20:38.556 of things on your phone that you really don't need 0:20:38.596 --> 0:20:40.556 to do that are an urgent, but your head is 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:43.476 just distracted. And we all convince ourselves we can multitask. 0:20:43.476 --> 0:20:46.036 It turns out we actually can't. There's more and more 0:20:46.076 --> 0:20:48.796 science to back that up. But it turns out that 0:20:48.836 --> 0:20:52.676 if you can just be fully present with someone for 0:20:52.756 --> 0:20:54.556 five or ten minutes, if you can give them one 0:20:54.596 --> 0:20:56.796 of the greatest gifts you can give anyone else, which 0:20:56.836 --> 0:20:59.196 is a gift of your full attention, it can be 0:20:59.276 --> 0:21:04.196 so deeply fulfilling, you know, for the listener who's hearing 0:21:04.516 --> 0:21:06.916 you say the recommendation of try to even find small 0:21:06.996 --> 0:21:08.756