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Speaker 1: Pushkin. You know, if I told you there's this pill

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Speaker 1: that you could take that's available for free in pharmacies

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Speaker 1: all across the country, that if you take it will

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Speaker 1: reduce your chances of feeling depressed or anxious, that will

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Speaker 1: reduce your risk of premature death and heart disease, and

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Speaker 1: might actually make society more peaceful and less vitriolic. You

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Speaker 1: would say, gosh, well, where is this thing? Sign me up.

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Speaker 1: That's doctor Vivic Morphy, the US Surgeon General, And what

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Speaker 1: he's prescribing here isn't actually a pill. It's more meaningful

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Speaker 1: social connection, something many of us are lacking right now.

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Speaker 1: Loneliness is not something it's just affecting a few people

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Speaker 1: here and there. It is affecting an ordinarily high portion

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Speaker 1: of the population. There are more adults who are struggling

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Speaker 1: with loneliness than have diabetes in the United States. So

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Speaker 1: we have to help people recognize that this is a

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Speaker 1: public health threat, one that we can address, but we've

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Speaker 1: got to put it on the map of critical issues

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Speaker 1: and priorities for our country. On today's show, our nation's

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Speaker 1: doctor tells us just how dangerous loneliness can be for

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Speaker 1: our health and gives us strategies for building stronger social connections.

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Speaker 1: I'm maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans,

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Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become

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Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. In addition to

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Speaker 1: serving as a certain general, doctor Morphe is also the

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Speaker 1: author of Together, The Healing Power of Human Connection in

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Speaker 1: a sometimes Lonely World. He's an expert on the science

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Speaker 1: of loneliness, which is something he never thought would be

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Speaker 1: the focus of his work. After all, he's trained as

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Speaker 1: a medical doctor. But back when Viveik was a practicing physician,

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Speaker 1: he met a patient who made the link between physical

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Speaker 1: health and loneliness impossible to ignore. I saw him in

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Speaker 1: clinic one day and one of the first things he

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Speaker 1: said to me on our first visit, well, doctor, you

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Speaker 1: might be surprised to know that I've actually won the lottery.

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Speaker 1: And I thought he was speaking in a metaphorical sense,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't. He's being quite literal. And he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I won the lottery, but I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you it was probably the worst thing that happened

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Speaker 1: to me, and that really surprised me. So he had

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Speaker 1: my attention before, but now he really had me leaning in,

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Speaker 1: and he proceeded to explain to me that prior to

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Speaker 1: winning the lottery, he was a chef at a restaurant

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Speaker 1: in Boston, and you know, he wasn't rich, but he

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Speaker 1: did okay. He was able to pay his rent. He

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Speaker 1: had neighbors that he liked, he had people he worked

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Speaker 1: with in the kitchen who were great, he had clients

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Speaker 1: who really loved his food. And he worked incredibly hard

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Speaker 1: and that was his life. But after he won the lottery,

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Speaker 1: for a number of years he had very large checks

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Speaker 1: coming to him, and he sort of decided, gosh, I

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Speaker 1: don't need to work anymore. I don't need to live

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood that I live, and I can move

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Speaker 1: somewhere that's like big and fancy and I have a

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Speaker 1: large house all to myself. And so he did. He

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Speaker 1: quit his job. He moved to a part of Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: metic Sea, where wealthy folks typically live, and he found

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Speaker 1: over time that he was profoundly alone. And he would

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Speaker 1: describe this to me. He said, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: have like my co workers anymore to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't getting the satisfaction of people eating my food

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Speaker 1: and saying, oh, my God, how did you create this?

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Speaker 1: This is incredible. But he didn't have his neighbors to

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Speaker 1: chat with. He wasn't just seeing people walking up and

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Speaker 1: down his street anymore. Instead, he was living in a

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Speaker 1: house where they were big walls between the houses and

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Speaker 1: fences and it was just him and his dog. And

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Speaker 1: he said it was after that that he started to

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Speaker 1: develop high blood pressure and diabetes, and that you are

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Speaker 1: sort of experiencing mental health concerns as well. And he

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Speaker 1: chalked it up to the lonely and isolation that came

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Speaker 1: from that experience, a major shift in his life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you've said that you were so humbled in this

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Speaker 1: moment because your medical training had not prepared you to

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Speaker 1: help patients struggling with loneliness. It was a sobering moment

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Speaker 1: because you go into medicine wanting to relieve suffering. I

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Speaker 1: went into medicine because I wanted to do what I

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Speaker 1: saw my parents doing when I was growing up and

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Speaker 1: the medical clinic they ran down in Miami, Florida, which

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Speaker 1: is I wanted to be able to take care of

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Speaker 1: the problems that patients had. And I realized that I

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Speaker 1: learned about a lot of those problems in medical school,

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Speaker 1: I learned about everything in the structure of cells and

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Speaker 1: mechanisms of inflammation, to how to manage somebody's diabetes, how

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Speaker 1: to adjust their blood pressure medications, how to treat them

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Speaker 1: if their hearts stopped. Like, I learned a lot, but

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Speaker 1: I wasn't recalling a single thing that I had really

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Speaker 1: learned about loneliness because it wasn't part of our curricula.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't something that we understood to be one of

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Speaker 1: the most common challenges our patients would face, even though

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Speaker 1: it turned out that's exactly what it was. So I

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Speaker 1: did feel a sense of sadness in that moment, but

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Speaker 1: it was also a realization that Gosh I needed to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to fill this gap in my medical knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Time after time, seeing patience in the hospital, I came

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Speaker 1: to realize that so many of them were struggling with loneliness.

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Speaker 1: People would come into the hospital alone in ten moments

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Speaker 1: where we had really difficult information to give to them.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was about a new diagnosis, or maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a hard decision we had to make about whether or

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Speaker 1: not to go for surgery or start a new treatment regiment,

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Speaker 1: or whether or not to stop a treatment for a

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Speaker 1: condition that wasn't responding. In those moments, I would often ask, patience,

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Speaker 1: is there somebody I can call? Who you want to

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Speaker 1: be here while we have this conversation. No, might be tough,

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Speaker 1: but far too often they would say, gosh, I wish

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Speaker 1: there was somebody, but there isn't anyone. Just have to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation by myself. And I think most heartbreaking though,

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Speaker 1: for me, was the final moments of life during people's death.

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Speaker 1: There were so many times where the only people witnessing

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Speaker 1: those final moments for a patient was me and my

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Speaker 1: colleagues in the hospital, but there was no family member

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Speaker 1: or friend who was actually there by the bedside. So

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Speaker 1: seeing that time and time again just made me realize

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Speaker 1: that loneliness is more than a passing concern. It's more

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Speaker 1: than an isolated issue that only affects a few people.

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Speaker 1: It was affecting so many of the people that I saw,

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Speaker 1: and later when I became sort of gentle I came

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Speaker 1: to see that it wasn't just unique to my experience,

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Speaker 1: but loneliness is impacting people all across our country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: impacting them in manifesting in the form of lots of

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Speaker 1: medical conditions. Right like high blood pressure, diabetes, And that is,

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Speaker 1: I think, something that many people don't recognize. Even if

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Speaker 1: they appreciate that loneliness is incredibly common, they may not

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Speaker 1: necessarily know how consequential it is both for our mental

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Speaker 1: health and our physical health. It increases our risk of

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Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, but also our risk of premature death,

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Speaker 1: of heart disease, of dementia, and of a host of

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Speaker 1: other physical illnesses that we care deeply about. But it

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Speaker 1: also has an effect that's comparable and in some cases

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Speaker 1: even greater than what we see with other conditions we

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Speaker 1: care about. Take, for example, smoking, Some great studies actually

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Speaker 1: about bringing young University have showed us that the mortality

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Speaker 1: impact of loneliness in fact is comparable to the mortality

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Speaker 1: impact of smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. It's even greater

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Speaker 1: than the mortality impact that we see with obesity and

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Speaker 1: with substance use disorders. Now just pause for a second

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Speaker 1: and think about how much time, effort, and energy we

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Speaker 1: spend in combating smoking and obesity and substance use disorders

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Speaker 1: because of extraordinary toll they take on society. But think

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Speaker 1: about how little we actually tackle loneliness, or little we

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Speaker 1: invest in thinking about our strategies for addressing it. So

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Speaker 1: we have to help people recognize that this is a

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Speaker 1: public health threat, one that we can address, but we've

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Speaker 1: got to put it on the map of critical issues

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Speaker 1: and priorities for our country. Yeah, to help us better

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Speaker 1: understand loneliness and its consequences. I'd love to hear why

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Speaker 1: we as humans have come to need social connection in

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Speaker 1: the way that we do. We evolved to need each

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Speaker 1: other and to depend on one another because it turned

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Speaker 1: out that we could do far more together than we

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Speaker 1: could do alone. So simple example, like when we were

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Speaker 1: a hunter gatherers. You know, if you were one of

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Speaker 1: those folks who said, you know what, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do it on my own, I don't need anyone else.

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Speaker 1: What happened to that person is they either got eaten

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Speaker 1: by a predator, they starve because of an insufficient food supply.

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Speaker 1: And it turned out that when we actually helped one another,

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Speaker 1: when we looked, took turns looking out around the you know,

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Speaker 1: at night, for predators, When we shared our food supply

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Speaker 1: so that none of us start on any given day,

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Speaker 1: when we help each other with childcare, when we did

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Speaker 1: these things, we actually were all more able to survive

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Speaker 1: and thrive and prosper, and so it became then part

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Speaker 1: of our nervous systems wiring, if you will, that when

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Speaker 1: we were separated from one another, it actually put us

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Speaker 1: into stress. Day. Yeah, one of the most fascinating insights

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Speaker 1: that I gleaned from your book is that loneliness can

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Speaker 1: be self perpetuating. Right, So, being in a lonely state

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Speaker 1: of mind can actually sabotage our ability to meaningfully connect

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Speaker 1: with others. This is one of the counterintuitive things about loneliness.

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Speaker 1: But when we feel lonely, there are mechanisms triggered in

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Speaker 1: our body that can actually perpetuate loneliness. One of them

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Speaker 1: is that our threat perception increases, and what that means

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Speaker 1: is that we are more likely to perceive what might

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Speaker 1: be normal everyday interactions or gestures around us as threats. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, if I'm feeling lonely and I'm in this

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Speaker 1: state of elevated threat and you approach me, my Dusty, Hey,

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Speaker 1: big I was wondering do you want to have lunch

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Speaker 1: together today? Normally I might say, Hey, that's really nice.

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Speaker 1: She's reaching out, and maybe you notice that I'm lonely,

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Speaker 1: but in a state of elevator threat, which shifts my perception.

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Speaker 1: I might think, does she have another motive here? Why

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Speaker 1: she reaching out to me? And she's just trying to

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Speaker 1: take pity on me? And she going to make fun

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Speaker 1: of me, and she's trying to ridicule me in some

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Speaker 1: way to sh have an ulterior motive. I might start

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Speaker 1: asking questions which might either lead me to say no

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Speaker 1: or alter my interactions with you in a way that

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Speaker 1: may be unpleasant. So you start to push people away

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Speaker 1: at a time where you need to pull them in.

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Speaker 1: The second thing that happens is that our focus shifts

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Speaker 1: in work toward ourselves. And if you understand loneliness is

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Speaker 1: a state of stress and threat, you start to understand

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Speaker 1: why that makes sense. If we're under a threat, we

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Speaker 1: do want to focus on ourselves and make sure we're well.

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Speaker 1: But that increased focus on self in some case excessive

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Speaker 1: focus on self can also be off putting to others

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Speaker 1: who might think, oh, that person is aloof for their

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Speaker 1: too self absorbed, or they seem narcissistic. And there's a

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Speaker 1: third dynamic that's happening here too, which is that the

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Speaker 1: lonelier we are, the more we come to believe that

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Speaker 1: we're lonely because we're not likable, so loneliness chips away

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Speaker 1: at our self esteem, which can make it even harder

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Speaker 1: to take their risk of going out and talking to

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Speaker 1: people new people, but also folks that we know, and

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Speaker 1: that can perpetuate loneliness. And that's why we have to

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Speaker 1: want to recognize that, and that if we understand that,

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Speaker 1: that may give you an added reason to be empathic

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Speaker 1: and understanding towards others who may seem might they are

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Speaker 1: self absorbed, or or may seem might they're or aloof,

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Speaker 1: they in fact may be struggling with loneliness. I know

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Speaker 1: that has been true for me, and I'm not proud

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Speaker 1: of those moments where I have been aloof and have

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Speaker 1: pushed other people away at times where I really needed them.

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Speaker 1: We all have, but we all have, and I will

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Speaker 1: tell you I so deeply appreciate the people who stuck

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Speaker 1: by me, yeah, despite me being who I was, and

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Speaker 1: who reminded me what we all need to be reminded of,

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Speaker 1: which is that we are not alone. That there are

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Speaker 1: people who see us for who we are and who

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Speaker 1: still care about us. I was reflecting back the other

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Speaker 1: day on my own periods of loneliness and anxiety and everything,

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Speaker 1: and being like, oh my god, your souls self absorbed

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Speaker 1: and your friends back then are still your friends today,

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Speaker 1: So you should just like give them all huge hugs

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Speaker 1: because they deserve it, a golden medal for sticking by

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Speaker 1: me when I was at my peak narcissism. You know,

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Speaker 1: it really feels. And the research corroborates this that our

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Speaker 1: minds are wired for social connection. And there are these

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Speaker 1: fascinating neuroimaging studies that I read about in your book

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Speaker 1: The Ones by Matthew Lieberman. Yea. So one interesting thing

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Speaker 1: that Matthew Lieberman found is that when our brains are

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Speaker 1: effectively shut off, like when we're not interacting with other people,

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Speaker 1: that our default mode is actually to process and make

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Speaker 1: sense of, if you will, the social connections and relationships

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Speaker 1: that we have, whether we're introverts or extroverts, whether we're

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Speaker 1: interacting with people or not, our brain is processing those

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Speaker 1: connections and using them to make sense of the broader world.

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Speaker 1: It's actually another indication of just how we are hardwired

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Speaker 1: to connect as human beings. And again, sometimes people hear

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Speaker 1: them and think, oh, we're all meant to be extroverts. No,

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Speaker 1: We're not all meant to be extroverts, and I say

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Speaker 1: that as an introvert myself, but we are all meant

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Speaker 1: and designed to thrive in part because of our relationships,

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Speaker 1: and we need those, and in the absence of those,

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Speaker 1: we struggle and we suffer. And you know, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because it's tied into how we experience pain as well.

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Speaker 1: You know, we think about pain as a purely physical phenomenon. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that people like Matthew Lieberman and

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Speaker 1: Callie have found is that when you experience emotional pain,

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Speaker 1: it registers in your brain as well as pain. We

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Speaker 1: used to hear people say often when people were struggling

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Speaker 1: with emotional difficulties in life and where they've felt actually

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Speaker 1: physical manifestations, you would hear people say, yeah, it's all

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Speaker 1: in your head, right. Yeah. It turns out that may

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Speaker 1: be literally true, but in a way that makes it

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Speaker 1: even more real, which is a yes, that emotional pain

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Speaker 1: does register in your brain, which is where all pain registers.

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Speaker 1: For what it's worth exactly, and it can feel as

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Speaker 1: real and as hard to manage as a physical pain

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Speaker 1: that we endure. I mentioned this because one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I've been so concerned about loneliness is I see

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Speaker 1: this as one of the most common sources of emotional

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Speaker 1: pain that people are experiencing right now. And people are

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Speaker 1: in pain, then we have to talk about how we

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Speaker 1: address that. After the break, the vehicle will give us

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Speaker 1: strategies for building more meaningful social connections with others. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back in a moment with a slight chain of plans.

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Speaker 1: We're back with us, Surgeon General the vague morphy. In

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Speaker 1: order to create a culture of greater connectedness, the Vague says,

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Speaker 1: we first have to understand what loneliness really looks and

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Speaker 1: feels like, because there are many misconceptions out there. We

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Speaker 1: have this stereotype of loneliness. We think about the person

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Speaker 1: who's socially awkward, who's sitting in the corner of a

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Speaker 1: room at a party of all by themselves. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that is so not the picture of loneliness. And as

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Speaker 1: Surgeon General, when I was in the Obama administration, I

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Speaker 1: was surrounded by people all the time, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I was constantly at events, as constantly in meetings, as

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Speaker 1: constantly at all kinds of engagements. But I was struggling

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Speaker 1: with a profound sense of loneliness during that time because

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Speaker 1: I had made what I recognize now critical mistake, which

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Speaker 1: I had convinced myself that in order to make the

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Speaker 1: most of this opportunity to serve, I had to give

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Speaker 1: up everything else. I had to sacrifice my time both

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Speaker 1: family and friends, and always, always, always put work first.

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Speaker 1: But what I realized is that came at an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: cost to me personally, and it turned out that I

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Speaker 1: was not as well sustained in the work as I

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Speaker 1: otherwise would have been if I had realized that I

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Speaker 1: needed to focus on keeping my relationships present and keeping

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Speaker 1: them close. Yeah, you talked about the stereotypes that day,

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Speaker 1: and one thing you clarify in your book, which I

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Speaker 1: think is so helpful for us as we build mental

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Speaker 1: models of what loneliness is that loneliness is a subjective feeling. Right,

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Speaker 1: It is a state of mind that we are lacking

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Speaker 1: the social connections that we need. Right, we feel we

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Speaker 1: are missing trust and closeness, or might feel abandoned. But

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Speaker 1: it really is defined by this internal feeling, and you

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Speaker 1: make it a point to distinguish that from other states

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Speaker 1: like isolation and solitude. It is very important. Loneliness is

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Speaker 1: a subjective term. It's when the connections we need in

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Speaker 1: our life see the connections that we actually have, and

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Speaker 1: in that gap we feel lonely. Isolation is a more

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Speaker 1: objective description of the number of people we may have

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Speaker 1: around us, for the number of social contacts that we

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Speaker 1: may have, but one could be relatively isolated. You can

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Speaker 1: have few contacts, but you may not feel lonely at all,

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Speaker 1: because it's really about the quality of those connections, and

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Speaker 1: solitude is different altogether. Solitude is a welcome state of

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Speaker 1: a loneness. It's a state which can be renewing. Solitude

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Speaker 1: is those moments where we may be physically alone, but

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Speaker 1: where we actually connect with something that replenishes us and

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Speaker 1: nourishes us. That might be just time in silence, meditating.

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Speaker 1: It might be time in nature. It may be time

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Speaker 1: that we spend in prayer, maybe time that we spend writing. However,

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Speaker 1: we find it that time in solitude is actually very

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Speaker 1: important for everyone, whether an introvert or an extrovert. What

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Speaker 1: differs maybe how much time in solitude we need in

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Speaker 1: our lives. But there's one last thing here that is

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Speaker 1: really important to recognize, which is that if you recognize

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Speaker 1: that loneliness is subjective state where the connections we need

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Speaker 1: are great. In the connections we have, one question is

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Speaker 1: how do we know what connections we need, how much

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Speaker 1: connection we need? It turns out that this is something

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Speaker 1: that can be influenced in ways that can be harmful

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Speaker 1: to us. So imagine that we live in a relatively

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Speaker 1: extroverted culture, which we do surrounded and immersed in platforms

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Speaker 1: like let's say social media, for example, which may lead

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Speaker 1: us to think that the kind of optimal social engagement

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Speaker 1: we need is incredibly high. Where we're going to parties

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Speaker 1: all the time, where we're constantly going on vacations with friends,

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Speaker 1: or we're surrounded by people that can affect Sorry, what

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Speaker 1: is this party of which you speak? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It turns out I didn't attend many of them in

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Speaker 1: college either. I missed out. But you know, if you

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Speaker 1: are growing up in an environment where the bar is

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Speaker 1: shifted for you and you're made to feel like you

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Speaker 1: need to be engaging with people all the time, that's

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Speaker 1: an optimal level of engagement. Then even if you are

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Speaker 1: engaging with people at the pace that feels right to you,

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Speaker 1: you might feel like something is wrong. And this part

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Speaker 1: is incredibly important because when you feel worse about yourself,

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Speaker 1: it makes it harder for you to reach out and

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Speaker 1: connect with other people, especially new people, because it feels

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Speaker 1: like taking your risk. And again, if you are struggling

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Speaker 1: in terms of your self esteem, those risks become much

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Speaker 1: much harder to take. Yeah, so let's give listeners some

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Speaker 1: hope for fake because we're all feeling in this moment

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Speaker 1: a little bit verdened by the consequences of loneliness. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, one thing you say when it comes to

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Speaker 1: staving off loneliness, the first thing that we all need

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Speaker 1: to just accept is that loneliness is this natural signal

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Speaker 1: to us that we need to connect with other people.

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Speaker 1: I love you say, it's akin to feeling hungry or thirsty,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that those signals tell you, oh, I

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Speaker 1: probably need to eat or drink something. And so there's

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Speaker 1: just this acceptance that we have this vital need for

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Speaker 1: social connection and we should just lean in. What are

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Speaker 1: other techniques that people can use to try and stave

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Speaker 1: off loneliness in their lives. There are few things that

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Speaker 1: I think about in this regard. So one is to

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Speaker 1: recognize that connection to self is a foundation for connecting

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Speaker 1: with other people. What does that mean to connect with yourself, Well,

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Speaker 1: it means to know that you have worth and that

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Speaker 1: you have value. And look, if you're like me, you've

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Speaker 1: gone through many periods in your life where you've questioned

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Speaker 1: that you know, because it's not about how much money

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Speaker 1: you have in the bank or how longer list of

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Speaker 1: accomplishments are. Like, all of us have moments of self doubt,

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Speaker 1: but that's actually when we need things that we can

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Speaker 1: reach for that remind us that we have worth and value.

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Speaker 1: Connecting with other people is also really essential, of course,

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Speaker 1: in the battle against loneliness. But again, small steps can

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Speaker 1: go a long way. So just taking, for example, a

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Speaker 1: few minutes each day to reach out to one person

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Speaker 1: that you care about. It could be a quick phone

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Speaker 1: call that you make on the way to work. It

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Speaker 1: could be a quick text message that you send to

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Speaker 1: check in on someone. It could be a video call

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Speaker 1: that you make before you go to sleep to talk

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Speaker 1: to your parents or your kids. Those few minutes can

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Speaker 1: make us feel so deeply connected. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: that helps us is to be present when we are

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Speaker 1: connected with other people. So if you're like me, you've

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Speaker 1: probably made the mistake of catching up with their friend.

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Speaker 1: But then somehow, like your hands sneaked into your pocket,

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Speaker 1: you've got your phone. You're like checking the scores on

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Speaker 1: ESPN dot com or freshing your inbox, doing all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things on your phone that you really don't need

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Speaker 1: to do that are an urgent, but your head is

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Speaker 1: just distracted. And we all convince ourselves we can multitask.

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Speaker 1: It turns out we actually can't. There's more and more

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Speaker 1: science to back that up. But it turns out that

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Speaker 1: if you can just be fully present with someone for

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Speaker 1: five or ten minutes, if you can give them one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest gifts you can give anyone else, which

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Speaker 1: is a gift of your full attention, it can be

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Speaker 1: so deeply fulfilling, you know, for the listener who's hearing

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Speaker 1: you say the recommendation of try to even find small

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Speaker 1: moments in the day to connect with people that you

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Speaker 1: care about, right the quick phone call. But they're thinking

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Speaker 1: to themselves that I don't even have one person that

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Speaker 1: I can do that with. I want to give them hope.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things I would say to those who

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Speaker 1: feel like they don't have people in their life right now.

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Speaker 1: One is to recognize that the connections that matter to

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Speaker 1: us in our life are not only connections let's say

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Speaker 1: with people in our intimate circles with a spouse or

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Speaker 1: a best friend, but it's also our connection with a community.

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Speaker 1: These are the people that we may see in passing,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe when we go to temple or church,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you go to religious gatherings, or people

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Speaker 1: who may be folks who may encounter in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: But those connections matter too. And simple acts of kindness

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Speaker 1: with those individuals, simply acknowledging people, greeting them, offering, just

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Speaker 1: checking in on them, seeing how they're doing, those are

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Speaker 1: moments of connection that are very powerful. They feed our

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Speaker 1: soul in ways that our body is hardwired to receive.

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Speaker 1: It feels good to use that muscle of kindness and

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Speaker 1: compassion that we are designed to use and operated by,

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Speaker 1: but which we often forget because the world around us

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Speaker 1: will often tell us that if we're too kind and

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Speaker 1: too nice and we'll get taken advantage of right. But

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Speaker 1: it turns out reaching for that, using that muscle, it

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Speaker 1: can make us feel good. One last thing they would

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Speaker 1: just remember is something that is not my wisdom or

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Speaker 1: my sort of knowledge. It's something that was given to

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Speaker 1: me by a good friend in Boston when I was

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Speaker 1: finished my first term as certain General was really struggling

431
00:22:31,356 --> 00:22:34,516
Speaker 1: a lot with loneliness, with having really no sense of

432
00:22:34,596 --> 00:22:36,876
Speaker 1: real community. I had lost connection with so many of

433
00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:39,316
Speaker 1: their friends that I had been close to before during

434
00:22:39,316 --> 00:22:43,476
Speaker 1: my first tour of duty. And I remember lamenting this

435
00:22:43,556 --> 00:22:46,516
Speaker 1: going to Boston and seeing a friend from my residency

436
00:22:46,556 --> 00:22:48,476
Speaker 1: training and she said to me, she said, Vibe, you

437
00:22:48,516 --> 00:22:50,396
Speaker 1: know what your problem is. She said, Your problem is

438
00:22:50,436 --> 00:22:53,596
Speaker 1: not that you don't have friends. She said, your problem

439
00:22:53,676 --> 00:22:56,836
Speaker 1: is that you're not experiencing friendships. She said, you have

440
00:22:56,996 --> 00:23:00,156
Speaker 1: people in your life from years past who, if you

441
00:23:00,236 --> 00:23:02,876
Speaker 1: reached out to them, would be more than happy to

442
00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:04,676
Speaker 1: talk to you. And she knew that I felt a

443
00:23:04,756 --> 00:23:08,036
Speaker 1: sense of shame and guilt because from not being in

444
00:23:08,076 --> 00:23:11,076
Speaker 1: touch with them for years, from showing up when I

445
00:23:11,196 --> 00:23:13,236
Speaker 1: was tied up with work at times where they really

446
00:23:13,236 --> 00:23:16,236
Speaker 1: needed a friend, you know. But she said, Vivek, if

447
00:23:16,236 --> 00:23:18,316
Speaker 1: you reached out to those people just to say hello

448
00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:21,156
Speaker 1: and reconnect, guarantee you the vast majority of them would

449
00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:25,276
Speaker 1: welcome the connection. And she was right. And I share

450
00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:28,356
Speaker 1: this only to say that the connections from our past

451
00:23:28,436 --> 00:23:31,436
Speaker 1: don't need to stay in our past, but sometimes they

452
00:23:31,436 --> 00:23:35,036
Speaker 1: can be rekindled with a simple outreach, a simple message

453
00:23:35,036 --> 00:23:37,596
Speaker 1: from me, a simple call, and more often than not,

454
00:23:37,716 --> 00:23:39,876
Speaker 1: you may find that the people were reaching out to

455
00:23:39,956 --> 00:23:44,076
Speaker 1: may be struggling with loneliness themselves and then finally looking

456
00:23:44,116 --> 00:23:48,116
Speaker 1: for ways to serve other people. Why does this service matter, Well,

457
00:23:48,116 --> 00:23:50,356
Speaker 1: it turns out that service is one of the most

458
00:23:50,356 --> 00:23:53,276
Speaker 1: powerful ways that we break this cycle of loneliness because

459
00:23:53,316 --> 00:23:56,076
Speaker 1: remember when we struggle with loneliness because of our elevated

460
00:23:56,076 --> 00:23:59,156
Speaker 1: threat level, sometimes inadvertently pushing people away, and we're chipping

461
00:23:59,156 --> 00:24:02,356
Speaker 1: away at our sense of self esteem. What service does

462
00:24:02,916 --> 00:24:05,516
Speaker 1: is it allows us to connect to somebody else in

463
00:24:05,516 --> 00:24:08,276
Speaker 1: an environment where we are truly helping in a way

464
00:24:08,316 --> 00:24:11,516
Speaker 1: that's immediate. But we also reaffirm to ourselves that we

465
00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:14,156
Speaker 1: have value to bring to the world. Right, so both

466
00:24:14,436 --> 00:24:17,756
Speaker 1: lifts our esteem but also helps us forge an immediate

467
00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:20,476
Speaker 1: connection with another human being. And service doesn't have to

468
00:24:20,516 --> 00:24:24,596
Speaker 1: be quitting your job and joining an organization does charitable work,

469
00:24:24,636 --> 00:24:26,916
Speaker 1: although certainly if you feel call to that, you should,

470
00:24:27,316 --> 00:24:30,036
Speaker 1: but service can be stopping to check in on a

471
00:24:30,036 --> 00:24:33,156
Speaker 1: coworker who maybe is struggling. It could be asking a

472
00:24:33,156 --> 00:24:35,476
Speaker 1: friend how they're doing because you know that they are

473
00:24:35,476 --> 00:24:38,276
Speaker 1: worried about losing their job. Yeah, and I love how

474
00:24:38,316 --> 00:24:42,036
Speaker 1: this really helps to reframe what social connection even means

475
00:24:42,076 --> 00:24:44,556
Speaker 1: and what it can look like. Right, There's one line

476
00:24:44,556 --> 00:24:46,236
Speaker 1: that I found so stirring in your book where you

477
00:24:46,276 --> 00:24:50,476
Speaker 1: say belonging involves more than being accepted, known and loved.

478
00:24:50,956 --> 00:24:55,116
Speaker 1: It's about sharing in the concern and responsibility for others. So,

479
00:24:55,236 --> 00:24:57,996
Speaker 1: you know, one of the people who I remember talking

480
00:24:57,996 --> 00:25:01,196
Speaker 1: to is a woman named Sarah who moved to Texas

481
00:25:01,436 --> 00:25:03,476
Speaker 1: away from our family and our friends, and she was

482
00:25:03,516 --> 00:25:06,756
Speaker 1: really struggling. She felt really alone, and she ended up

483
00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:09,076
Speaker 1: developing something that really helped her call the Neighbors Team.

484
00:25:10,036 --> 00:25:12,876
Speaker 1: And this is a way through which she served her neighbors.

485
00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:16,796
Speaker 1: She would bring them together periodically at her home. Her

486
00:25:16,836 --> 00:25:19,436
Speaker 1: father helped her construct this really big table that she

487
00:25:19,516 --> 00:25:22,116
Speaker 1: put outside on the grass wherever could come sit. She

488
00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:24,076
Speaker 1: asked her one to just bring a dish, and then

489
00:25:24,076 --> 00:25:26,476
Speaker 1: she became a host for people. She would walk around

490
00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:29,316
Speaker 1: helping people learn a little bit about each other, saying, hey,

491
00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:31,396
Speaker 1: you know, this is Maya. He's a little bit about

492
00:25:31,396 --> 00:25:34,036
Speaker 1: her background. Like she would just walk around serving as

493
00:25:34,076 --> 00:25:37,596
Speaker 1: a connector, and which she founds two things. There were

494
00:25:37,596 --> 00:25:40,196
Speaker 1: a lot of people who were struggling with loneliness around

495
00:25:40,196 --> 00:25:42,996
Speaker 1: her in her neighborhood, and just a little bit of

496
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:45,876
Speaker 1: structure and a little bit of an introduction allowed them

497
00:25:45,916 --> 00:25:48,036
Speaker 1: to connect in powerful ways. But the other thing she

498
00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:52,076
Speaker 1: found is that serving as a connector herself actually made

499
00:25:52,116 --> 00:25:54,996
Speaker 1: her feel more deeply connected to her community. And it

500
00:25:55,076 --> 00:25:57,236
Speaker 1: was a powerful example to me. I sometimes when we

501
00:25:57,276 --> 00:25:59,316
Speaker 1: are feeling is like we're struggling, like we need help.

502
00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:02,116
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is by us giving help to others that

503
00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:05,836
Speaker 1: we find refuge and that we find solace. One other

504
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:09,476
Speaker 1: story I'll share is a very personal one about my

505
00:26:09,476 --> 00:26:12,196
Speaker 1: mother and my father. This is what you know. When

506
00:26:12,236 --> 00:26:14,556
Speaker 1: I was really young, I was woken up in the

507
00:26:14,596 --> 00:26:16,636
Speaker 1: middle of the night by my mom who said, hey,

508
00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:17,916
Speaker 1: we got to get in the car and go as

509
00:26:17,996 --> 00:26:19,876
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. It must have been two in the morning,

510
00:26:20,516 --> 00:26:22,356
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what was going on, and may

511
00:26:22,356 --> 00:26:24,196
Speaker 1: have been seven years old at the time. As bleary

512
00:26:24,236 --> 00:26:26,516
Speaker 1: eyed get in the car, and my sister who's eight

513
00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:28,556
Speaker 1: years old is also bleary eyed in the car next

514
00:26:28,596 --> 00:26:31,676
Speaker 1: to me, and my mom and dads are driving us

515
00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:34,436
Speaker 1: and they tell us along the way that their patient, Gordon,

516
00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:37,716
Speaker 1: had just died from a long struggle with metisatic cancer.

517
00:26:38,236 --> 00:26:41,316
Speaker 1: And we were driving to go to the trailer park

518
00:26:41,516 --> 00:26:44,436
Speaker 1: where Gordon lived because his wife, Ruth was still living

519
00:26:44,436 --> 00:26:46,316
Speaker 1: there and they were worried she would be grieving alone.

520
00:26:47,156 --> 00:26:53,196
Speaker 1: And I always remember that moment because my parents this

521
00:26:53,356 --> 00:26:56,756
Speaker 1: was not in their job description to drive out to

522
00:26:57,196 --> 00:26:59,996
Speaker 1: the trailer park at two am to check on, you know,

523
00:27:00,236 --> 00:27:03,556
Speaker 1: patient's widow. It is what they felt that they needed

524
00:27:03,596 --> 00:27:05,796
Speaker 1: to do. It's what they felt they wanted to do.

525
00:27:06,236 --> 00:27:08,356
Speaker 1: I remember my mother. She was wearing us Sadi as

526
00:27:08,356 --> 00:27:11,596
Speaker 1: you know, a tradition Indian dress, and she walked up

527
00:27:11,636 --> 00:27:14,356
Speaker 1: the stairs of roots trailer and knocked on the door,

528
00:27:14,876 --> 00:27:17,436
Speaker 1: and the door opened, and I saw Ruth come out

529
00:27:17,516 --> 00:27:19,956
Speaker 1: and her hair was frazzled and there were tears streaming

530
00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:23,876
Speaker 1: down her face and she just looked at my mother

531
00:27:24,636 --> 00:27:28,236
Speaker 1: and didn't say a word, but they just embraced and

532
00:27:28,316 --> 00:27:32,116
Speaker 1: they just held that hug. And looking at the two

533
00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:34,236
Speaker 1: of them, I thought, these are two people who come

534
00:27:34,276 --> 00:27:39,396
Speaker 1: from such profoundly different backgrounds, by immigrant Indian mother and Ruth,

535
00:27:39,436 --> 00:27:42,436
Speaker 1: who had been in this country for generations from a

536
00:27:42,476 --> 00:27:46,316
Speaker 1: completely different cultural background. But in that moment, there were

537
00:27:46,356 --> 00:27:51,076
Speaker 1: two human beings forging this extraordinarily powerful connection and speaking

538
00:27:51,116 --> 00:27:53,796
Speaker 1: the language of connection and love that I think we

539
00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:56,756
Speaker 1: all speak in our best moments, And so I remember

540
00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,596
Speaker 1: that moment often because it stands out to me as

541
00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:03,436
Speaker 1: a reminder that we all need connection. We all have

542
00:28:03,476 --> 00:28:06,236
Speaker 1: the power to build connection in our lives and the

543
00:28:06,236 --> 00:28:08,956
Speaker 1: lives of others. And it's thought about the big moments.

544
00:28:09,556 --> 00:28:12,716
Speaker 1: It's often about the small moments, the small decisions we

545
00:28:12,756 --> 00:28:41,476
Speaker 1: make to show up for somebody else. Hey, thanks for listening.

546
00:28:42,196 --> 00:28:44,276
Speaker 1: Next week we'll be off for the holiday, but join

547
00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:47,276
Speaker 1: us the following week for our season finale. When we

548
00:28:47,316 --> 00:28:51,636
Speaker 1: hear from Javier Zamora. At age nine, Javier left his

549
00:28:51,716 --> 00:28:55,356
Speaker 1: childhood home in El Salvador and embarked on a harrowing

550
00:28:55,396 --> 00:28:58,916
Speaker 1: immigration journey to reunite with his parents in the US.

551
00:28:59,796 --> 00:29:03,076
Speaker 1: Now in his thirties, Javier has revisited his past and

552
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:07,116
Speaker 1: a memoir called Solito Spanish for a loan, and it's

553
00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:09,396
Speaker 1: helped him see his nine year old self in a

554
00:29:09,436 --> 00:29:15,156
Speaker 1: new light. In looking at this kid, I also realized

555
00:29:15,316 --> 00:29:19,996
Speaker 1: that I was treating him how politicians and the news

556
00:29:19,996 --> 00:29:24,036
Speaker 1: outlets treat immigrants, so I was believing them, and that

557
00:29:24,156 --> 00:29:27,156
Speaker 1: also affected how I viewed my nine year old self.

558
00:29:28,116 --> 00:29:32,756
Speaker 1: He had committed a crime. He is somebody that doesn't

559
00:29:32,796 --> 00:29:39,476
Speaker 1: belong into society. He's an outsider, and slowly I was like, no,

560
00:29:39,836 --> 00:29:44,116
Speaker 1: hold up, this kid is a g he's a gangster.

561
00:29:44,276 --> 00:29:52,476
Speaker 1: He survived the unsurvivable. Rarely, rarely have I heard that

562
00:29:52,796 --> 00:30:06,956
Speaker 1: term survivor be attached to immigrants. A Slight Change of

563
00:30:06,956 --> 00:30:10,756
Speaker 1: Plans is created, written an executive produced by me Maya Shunker.

564
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,956
Speaker 1: The Slight Change family includes our showrunner Tyler Green, our

565
00:30:15,036 --> 00:30:19,676
Speaker 1: story editor Kate Parkinson Morgan, our sound engineer Andrew Vestola,

566
00:30:19,876 --> 00:30:24,116
Speaker 1: and our associate producer Sarah McCrae. Louise Scara wrote our

567
00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:27,356
Speaker 1: delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.

568
00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,

569
00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:34,476
Speaker 1: so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a

570
00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:38,316
Speaker 1: very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A

571
00:30:38,356 --> 00:30:41,476
Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker