WEBVTT - The Satire Paradox 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.316 --> 0:00:23.636 It was the middle of the eighties and missus Thatcher 0:00:23.796 --> 0:00:27.756 was the prime minister here and she was very popular 0:00:27.996 --> 0:00:30.396 with the sort of working classes and things, and not 0:00:30.436 --> 0:00:32.356 with the lefty middle classes like me. 0:00:33.116 --> 0:00:37.316 Harry Enfield, one of England's best known comedians. He's talking 0:00:37.316 --> 0:00:40.516 about where he got the inspiration for his most famous character, 0:00:41.076 --> 0:00:44.876 a response to the imperious Margaret Thatcher with her barb 0:00:44.956 --> 0:00:49.596 and pearls, who unleashed American style capitalism on the UK and. 0:00:49.956 --> 0:00:52.436 The student hippies. We used to live on this council 0:00:52.516 --> 0:00:54.996 state in Hackney and we used to go to the 0:00:54.996 --> 0:00:58.356 local pub and all the local tradesmen and things always 0:00:58.396 --> 0:01:01.116 had huge wards of money and they'd take it out 0:01:01.356 --> 0:01:03.996 because they thought we were squatters. We weren't actually squatters, 0:01:04.756 --> 0:01:07.436 but we looked like squatters because we worked in television, 0:01:07.956 --> 0:01:10.556 so they get their big wards of money outs instead 0:01:10.556 --> 0:01:12.796 of you know, flash it at the bar and everything. 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:18.076 Enfield hated Thatcher, hated what she represented, but the power 0:01:18.116 --> 0:01:22.356 I took was the power to reduce the power of government. 0:01:24.876 --> 0:01:27.756 Enfield and his partner Paul Whitehouse dreamt up a character 0:01:27.876 --> 0:01:29.796 to embody Thatcher's England. 0:01:29.796 --> 0:01:32.476 And it sort of just became this sort of thing 0:01:32.876 --> 0:01:36.036 really where we just go loads of money about everything. 0:01:36.076 --> 0:01:38.156 You know, well, that's loads of money, loads of money that, 0:01:38.236 --> 0:01:41.636 loads of money that, and then it became a sort 0:01:41.636 --> 0:01:42.356 of phenomenon. 0:01:42.836 --> 0:01:45.956 His name was loads of money. He was a construction worker, 0:01:46.116 --> 0:01:49.836 catapulted to sudden delirious wealth by the eighties building boom. 0:01:50.516 --> 0:01:52.156 I've got piles. 0:01:54.436 --> 0:01:55.116 Palls and. 0:01:58.076 --> 0:02:01.756 He chews gum with his mouth open, wears acid washed jeans, 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:05.956 white trainers, a yellow and green nylon jacket with white sleeves, 0:02:06.316 --> 0:02:10.036 keys on his belt, drives a white convertible the countryside. 0:02:10.556 --> 0:02:15.316 All performed with a kind of cheerful, unstoppable tastelessness. 0:02:15.436 --> 0:02:17.556 I'm in a politics right. All you need to know 0:02:17.636 --> 0:02:20.636 about politics. Missus Batch had done a lot good for 0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:26.436 the country, but you wouldn't want to shag it. I mean, 0:02:26.436 --> 0:02:28.756 at the time everything was, you know, everyone was going 0:02:28.836 --> 0:02:31.076 missus statch to this, missus statcha that, and you know, 0:02:31.156 --> 0:02:35.556 sort of very obviously preaching to the converted. So we 0:02:35.716 --> 0:02:37.836 sort of did it the other way, which is just 0:02:37.876 --> 0:02:40.476 to go look at me, aren't I gray? Isn't money gray? 0:02:40.596 --> 0:02:43.596 Everything else is rubbish. Only money is good. 0:02:46.156 --> 0:02:49.876 My name is Malcolm Gladwell, you're listening to Revisionist History, 0:02:50.116 --> 0:02:53.436 where every week I revisit the forgotten and the misunderstood. 0:02:59.876 --> 0:03:03.076 In this week's episode, the final episode of our first season, 0:03:03.436 --> 0:03:13.716 I want to talk about satire, political satire. We live 0:03:13.756 --> 0:03:16.516 in the golden age of satire. It's almost to the 0:03:16.556 --> 0:03:18.796 point where we seem to conduct as much of our 0:03:18.796 --> 0:03:27.956 political conversation through humor as through the normal media. Remember 0:03:27.956 --> 0:03:30.476 Stephen Colbert at the two thousand and six White House 0:03:30.476 --> 0:03:35.076 Correspondent Stinner, in character as the conservative talk show host 0:03:35.076 --> 0:03:37.956 he was then playing on television. He stands up and 0:03:37.996 --> 0:03:42.076 gives a satirical toast to his quote unquote hero, President 0:03:42.116 --> 0:03:43.516 George W. Bush. 0:03:43.596 --> 0:03:46.556 I stand by this man. I stand by this man 0:03:46.596 --> 0:03:50.036 because he stands four things, not only four things. He 0:03:50.156 --> 0:03:55.236 stands on things things like aircraft carriers and rubble and 0:03:55.436 --> 0:04:00.516 recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message 0:04:01.076 --> 0:04:03.876 that no matter what happens to America, she will always 0:04:03.956 --> 0:04:08.236 rebound with the most powerfully staged photo ops in the world. 0:04:10.196 --> 0:04:13.116 All the while President Bush sits unhappily on the dais 0:04:13.156 --> 0:04:16.716 a few feet from Colbert, squirming and grimacing and looking 0:04:16.756 --> 0:04:19.716 like it'd rather be one hundred feet underground. It was 0:04:19.756 --> 0:04:23.236 a moment of comic genius. Then there was Tina Fey's 0:04:23.276 --> 0:04:26.036 devastating impression of Sarah Palin during the two thousand and 0:04:26.076 --> 0:04:29.556 eight campaign, when the Alaskan governor ran on the Republican 0:04:29.676 --> 0:04:31.396 presidential ticket with John McCain. 0:04:31.556 --> 0:04:35.396 Well, Alaska and Russia are only separated by a narrow 0:04:35.516 --> 0:04:40.036 maritime border. You've got Alaska here and this right, here's water, 0:04:40.116 --> 0:04:44.036 and then mess up, there's Russia. So we keep an 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:44.636 eye on them. 0:04:46.476 --> 0:04:50.276 Who do you remember now, Sarah Palin herself or Tina 0:04:50.316 --> 0:04:54.436 Fey's Palin. I've written opinion pieces for newspapers or magazines, 0:04:54.676 --> 0:04:57.476 and there you have to write in somber, reasonable tones. 0:04:57.916 --> 0:05:02.916 You're limited. Satire allows you to say almost anything. That's 0:05:02.956 --> 0:05:05.996 where truth is spoken to power in our society. When 0:05:05.996 --> 0:05:09.716 you sugarcoat a bitter truth with humor, it makes medicine 0:05:09.716 --> 0:05:13.196 go down, your audience lets its guard down. Just look 0:05:13.236 --> 0:05:16.116 at the way Saturday Night Live has covered Hillary Clinton. 0:05:16.836 --> 0:05:21.916 They've ruthlessly zeroed in on her ambition, her humorlessness, her severity, 0:05:22.236 --> 0:05:25.876 her opportunism, all the things that have always given people 0:05:25.916 --> 0:05:26.756 pause about her. 0:05:27.236 --> 0:05:30.476 You're finally going to announce that you're running for president. 0:05:30.756 --> 0:05:32.796 My gosh, I don't know if I have it in me. 0:05:33.356 --> 0:05:35.396 I'm scared. I'm kidding. Let's do this. 0:05:39.076 --> 0:05:42.756 Comedians had become our truth tellers. That's what loads of 0:05:42.756 --> 0:05:50.956 Money was trying to do. Enfield wanted to tell the 0:05:50.996 --> 0:05:54.156 truth about what was happening in England. After Margaret Thatcher 0:05:54.196 --> 0:05:57.276 came to power in nineteen seventy nine, she was the 0:05:57.316 --> 0:06:01.276 British Ronald Reagan. During her eleven year reign, she took 0:06:01.316 --> 0:06:05.436 on British socialism with a vengeance, called it a nanny state. 0:06:06.676 --> 0:06:09.756 Her aggression angered and scared a lot of people who 0:06:09.796 --> 0:06:13.636 felt that something fundamental about the country's character was being upended, 0:06:14.236 --> 0:06:18.196 that something dark and crude had been unearthed, something like 0:06:18.276 --> 0:06:21.756 loads of money. 0:06:21.876 --> 0:06:26.396 All he did was have money, shag birds, drink, go 0:06:26.556 --> 0:06:28.796 to the opera. That was it kind of thing. 0:06:29.316 --> 0:06:31.036 I didn't realize that he went to the opera. 0:06:31.516 --> 0:06:33.836 Well, he didn't really like the opera, but he liked 0:06:33.836 --> 0:06:36.436 it because it was expensive, so he'd liked to be 0:06:36.516 --> 0:06:38.796 seen there, you know. So he go up to the 0:06:38.796 --> 0:06:43.116 bar and flashes wood, you know, order champagne top, which 0:06:43.156 --> 0:06:46.756 is basically like lagertop is a very big drink over here, 0:06:46.796 --> 0:06:48.876 which is lago with a bit of lime in the top. 0:06:49.156 --> 0:06:52.236 It's something you might get your girlfriend in the pub. 0:06:52.516 --> 0:06:54.716 So he'd go to the opera and order a pint 0:06:54.756 --> 0:06:55.636 of champagne top. 0:06:56.076 --> 0:06:58.076 Loads of Money around in the mid nineteen eighties on 0:06:58.116 --> 0:07:01.316 a popular Friday night sketch Carmedy show on British television. 0:07:01.916 --> 0:07:04.916 It struck a nerve the first couple of times you 0:07:05.036 --> 0:07:08.436 do this sketch, is there is the reaction immediate or 0:07:08.636 --> 0:07:09.676 is it kind of bills? 0:07:10.116 --> 0:07:12.756 No, it's absolutely immediate. I mean it was a sort 0:07:12.796 --> 0:07:16.276 of live show and so it needed to the big, brash, 0:07:16.436 --> 0:07:20.636 loud characters and this was one and people absolutely got 0:07:20.636 --> 0:07:21.436 it straight away. 0:07:21.876 --> 0:07:24.076 It's really hard to find someone over the age of 0:07:24.116 --> 0:07:26.916 thirty in England who doesn't remember the Loads of Money 0:07:26.956 --> 0:07:35.596 theme song. Enfield released it as a lark in nineteen 0:07:35.596 --> 0:07:38.876 eighty eight and it was huge, rose to number two 0:07:38.916 --> 0:07:41.876 in the British pop charts. The video is a series 0:07:41.916 --> 0:07:45.076 of shots of loads of Money marching around with scantily 0:07:45.156 --> 0:07:49.116 dressed women, driving fancy cars and sneering at the rest 0:07:49.156 --> 0:07:52.196 of the world, all the while waving huge piles of 0:07:52.236 --> 0:08:04.836 pound notes. It has three point three million views on YouTube. 0:08:07.036 --> 0:08:09.116 There is no op ed, no letter to the editor, 0:08:09.556 --> 0:08:12.596 no impassioned essay that gets three point three million views 0:08:12.596 --> 0:08:16.476 on YouTube. That's the power of satire. It can go 0:08:16.636 --> 0:08:24.036 places that serious discourse cannot. But here's the strange thing. 0:08:24.596 --> 0:08:27.756 If you ask Harry Enfield about Loads of Money's legacy, 0:08:28.116 --> 0:08:31.476 about what he thinks he accomplished by speaking truth so boldly, 0:08:31.556 --> 0:08:34.556 the power. You know what he says, he says it 0:08:34.596 --> 0:08:38.236 made no difference. That's what I want to talk about. 0:08:38.396 --> 0:08:40.676 Let's call it the loads of money problem. 0:08:40.796 --> 0:08:43.556 You know, I mean, it's great fun to do, but generally, 0:08:43.916 --> 0:08:46.756 you know, it's just about questioning what's there. Because we're 0:08:46.796 --> 0:08:48.756 allowed to question what's there, so we do. But it 0:08:48.796 --> 0:08:51.076 doesn't ever change anyone's mind. 0:08:58.796 --> 0:09:01.316 When Harry Enfield told me he didn't think loads of 0:09:01.356 --> 0:09:03.956 Money made any difference, the first person I thought of 0:09:04.236 --> 0:09:08.036 Stephen Colbert, not the straight Stephen Colbert of The Current 0:09:08.116 --> 0:09:11.636 Late Show, his breakout character, the parody of a right 0:09:11.676 --> 0:09:15.316 wing journalist that Colbert played on Comedy Central, first on 0:09:15.356 --> 0:09:18.036 the Daily Show and then from two thousand and five 0:09:18.156 --> 0:09:21.956 to twenty fourteen on The Colbert Report. Colbert was trying 0:09:21.956 --> 0:09:24.236 to do a version of what loads of money was 0:09:24.276 --> 0:09:28.516 doing shine a light on something crude in American popular culture. 0:09:29.276 --> 0:09:31.516 But you know, I was a guest on The Colbert 0:09:31.596 --> 0:09:33.676 Report a few times when I was promoting my books, 0:09:34.036 --> 0:09:36.436 and I have to say that there was always something 0:09:36.516 --> 0:09:41.276 a bit maybe ambiguous, is the right word, about Colbert's satire. 0:09:42.956 --> 0:09:45.436 You go to the studios. They're in Hell's Kitchen in 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:49.196 Manhattan far West Side. You sit in the green room beforehand, 0:09:49.436 --> 0:09:52.796 and Colbert comes in to say hello. He's not in character. 0:09:53.276 --> 0:09:56.476 He's this warm, charming, nice guy. And I can't stress 0:09:56.516 --> 0:10:00.156 the nice part enough. Everyone who meets Stephen Colbert thinks 0:10:00.196 --> 0:10:03.316 he's nice. He chats with you, and he warns you 0:10:03.556 --> 0:10:05.876 that when you go out on set, he's going to 0:10:05.876 --> 0:10:08.996 be someone else. But you don't quite believe him because 0:10:08.996 --> 0:10:11.356 you you see this really nice guy in front of you. 0:10:12.156 --> 0:10:15.036 Then you get on stage and he really is someone else. 0:10:15.516 --> 0:10:19.236 He's now this aggressive right wing talk show host. 0:10:19.596 --> 0:10:23.876 Okay, I'll get straight to my problem with this. Okay, 0:10:24.196 --> 0:10:25.716 you know I've got a problem with this, right sure, 0:10:25.756 --> 0:10:28.116 I can't come as a surprise to you. Yeah, okay, 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:33.076 the New Yorker. Okay, you think pieces that's you're right, 0:10:33.076 --> 0:10:35.396 you write think pieces. Why do you want to make 0:10:35.436 --> 0:10:39.356 me think about my dog? I feel about my dog, 0:10:39.396 --> 0:10:42.276 and my dog loves me back onconditionally? Why ruin that 0:10:42.316 --> 0:10:43.196 with thinking about it? 0:10:44.556 --> 0:10:47.996 Now? You know intellectually that it's satire. He's doing a 0:10:47.996 --> 0:10:50.716 parody of a brain dead talk show host. But it 0:10:50.756 --> 0:10:54.076 doesn't feel like a parody when you're sitting there. He's 0:10:54.196 --> 0:10:57.996 jabbing his finger and raising his one acrobatic eyebrow, and 0:10:58.036 --> 0:11:01.596 there I am like a deer in the headlights of satire, blinking. 0:11:02.116 --> 0:11:05.516 It's terrifying. I think I went on three times, and 0:11:05.636 --> 0:11:08.396 every time I swore I'd never go on again. 0:11:09.156 --> 0:11:09.676 Our dogs? 0:11:09.676 --> 0:11:10.196 Do you have a dog? 0:11:10.756 --> 0:11:11.516 I don't have a dog. 0:11:11.596 --> 0:11:12.516 I don't have a dog. 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:17.796 My building doesn't allow dogs. I'm an aspirational dog owner, but. 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:21.276 I really day, had you the ability you would own 0:11:21.316 --> 0:11:21.916 a dog. 0:11:21.716 --> 0:11:23.396 I would someday I hoped to own a dog. 0:11:23.476 --> 0:11:23.636 Yeah. 0:11:23.636 --> 0:11:25.436 I grew up with dogs, and. 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:27.116 I've you're raised by wolves. 0:11:28.636 --> 0:11:29.636 Grew up with dogs. 0:11:29.676 --> 0:11:32.556 That's what I mean by ambiguous. Am I in on 0:11:32.596 --> 0:11:34.676 the joke or the butt of it? I don't know. 0:11:36.076 --> 0:11:39.076 The Colbert Report has actually been studied by a communications 0:11:39.076 --> 0:11:42.956 scholar named Heather Lamar an assistant professor at Temple University 0:11:42.956 --> 0:11:46.716 in Philadelphia. She's part of a group of social scientists 0:11:46.796 --> 0:11:50.156 who've made a specialty out of studying how humor operates 0:11:50.196 --> 0:11:53.556 in popular culture, and she was drawn to the Colbert 0:11:53.596 --> 0:11:56.996 Report for the very reason that I'm talking about that 0:11:57.036 --> 0:12:00.756 gap between what you as the audience know intellectually that 0:12:00.796 --> 0:12:04.236 he's trying to do and the way his performance feels. 0:12:04.756 --> 0:12:08.876 I have a lot of liberal friends, especially in you know, academia, 0:12:08.956 --> 0:12:10.716 but I also have a lot of friends and family 0:12:10.716 --> 0:12:14.316 members that are conservative, and I started noticing that they 0:12:14.356 --> 0:12:17.396 would talk about the show as if it was equally funny, 0:12:17.396 --> 0:12:19.116 but in completely opposite ways. 0:12:19.436 --> 0:12:22.476 It struck her as something worth examining in more detail. 0:12:22.796 --> 0:12:27.036 Why are my Republican friends and family members watching him 0:12:27.156 --> 0:12:30.316 every single night and finding him hilarious, but they see 0:12:30.396 --> 0:12:34.156 him making fun of liberals and my liberal friends love 0:12:34.236 --> 0:12:37.236 him to death. I'm just biggest fans ever and think 0:12:37.316 --> 0:12:39.676 it's hilarious that he's making fun of people like Rush 0:12:39.716 --> 0:12:41.156 Limbaugh and Bellow Riley. 0:12:41.756 --> 0:12:44.556 As an example, Lamar picks a clip of an interview 0:12:44.636 --> 0:12:48.516 Colbert did with a left wing journalist, Amy Goodman. This 0:12:48.556 --> 0:12:49.916 is from two thousand and nine. 0:12:49.996 --> 0:12:51.436 Thank you so much for coming of the show. 0:12:51.636 --> 0:12:52.716 It's good to be read you, Steve. 0:12:52.756 --> 0:12:57.636 And now. 0:12:57.756 --> 0:13:02.516 You're a communist right, you're super liberal lefty. They don't 0:13:02.516 --> 0:13:07.476 get any more liberal lefty like outside agitator than you 0:13:07.556 --> 0:13:07.876 do they. 0:13:08.476 --> 0:13:08.836 I don't know. 0:13:08.876 --> 0:13:12.196 I think that conservative liberal lines are breaking down. 0:13:12.116 --> 0:13:13.636 Right, yeah, to right and wrong. 0:13:15.396 --> 0:13:17.356 Let me talk about the reddest state. 0:13:17.756 --> 0:13:20.556 Let you do anything you have to earn every inch 0:13:20.636 --> 0:13:23.156 of this interview, young lady. Yes, you don't come in 0:13:23.356 --> 0:13:25.916 my house and get me to let you do anything. 0:13:26.236 --> 0:13:29.876 During that outburst, Goodman nervously swivels back and forth in 0:13:29.876 --> 0:13:33.196 her chair. She starts to smile, but only gets halfway, 0:13:33.596 --> 0:13:35.756 so there's a kind of grimace left on her face. 0:13:36.316 --> 0:13:38.956 She raises her arm and points it at Colbert, but 0:13:39.036 --> 0:13:42.476 then just as quickly takes it down. I know exactly 0:13:42.516 --> 0:13:43.356 how she feels. 0:13:43.716 --> 0:13:46.116 I heard you were a fire brand. Will bring it, baby. 0:13:49.356 --> 0:13:52.436 What does Lamar find when she studies audience reactions to 0:13:52.476 --> 0:13:55.436 a clip like this? She finds it the more liberal 0:13:55.476 --> 0:13:57.876 you are, the more you see Stephen Colbert as a 0:13:57.956 --> 0:14:02.436 liberal skewing conservatives. But the more conservative you are, the 0:14:02.476 --> 0:14:06.076 more you see Stephen Colbert as a conservative skewing. 0:14:05.796 --> 0:14:08.636 Liberals, so essentially they saw what they wanted to see. 0:14:08.636 --> 0:14:11.036 So the big takeaway here of this study was that 0:14:11.116 --> 0:14:14.636 this is what we would call motivated cognition or biased perception. 0:14:15.156 --> 0:14:19.396 Colbert says to Goodman, you're a communist. That's funny if 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:23.396 you think the joke is on Colbert. It's also funny 0:14:23.516 --> 0:14:26.356 if you think Goodman actually is a kind of communist 0:14:26.596 --> 0:14:28.676 and someone is finally calling her out on it. 0:14:28.876 --> 0:14:30.996 Yeah, and he's sticking it to a communist. And we 0:14:31.036 --> 0:14:33.716 ask those kinds of questions in several different ways, and 0:14:33.876 --> 0:14:37.396 every single time, the conservatives and especially the strong conservatives 0:14:37.436 --> 0:14:39.276 would say, yeah, it's a joke, but he really kind 0:14:39.276 --> 0:14:41.356 of means it, So he really does sort of think 0:14:41.396 --> 0:14:43.196 she's a communist, and he really does sort of think 0:14:43.236 --> 0:14:45.356 there is a right and a wrong. And I agree 0:14:45.356 --> 0:14:47.996 with that, whereas the liberal would be like, oh, yeah, 0:14:48.036 --> 0:14:50.036 he's clearly making fun of Bill O'Reilly. 0:14:50.476 --> 0:14:55.476 There's no difference in how funny conservatives and liberals find Colbert. 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:57.436 And that's part of the magic, right. So that's why 0:14:57.436 --> 0:14:59.156 I would say he was a comedic genius. 0:14:59.596 --> 0:15:03.196 Lamar loves Colbert, and she thinks that what he accomplished 0:15:03.196 --> 0:15:07.196 with the Colbert Report was extraordinary. He created a character 0:15:07.236 --> 0:15:09.836 who managed to appeal to all sides of the political 0:15:09.876 --> 0:15:14.956 spectrum simultaneously. Do you know how hard that is? Really? 0:15:15.316 --> 0:15:18.316 Really hard? But if you think he's somehow winning an 0:15:18.356 --> 0:15:20.476 ideological battle, you're wrong. 0:15:21.516 --> 0:15:24.196 By Millow playing. 0:15:25.516 --> 0:15:37.116 Songs my neighbourhood parade, guys like gosh, we hadn't made. 0:15:36.276 --> 0:15:38.436 This isn't the first time as this happened with politically 0:15:38.436 --> 0:15:41.996 motivated comedy. By the way, almost fifty years ago, when 0:15:42.036 --> 0:15:44.596 Norman Lear's All in the Family was the most popular 0:15:44.636 --> 0:15:47.916 show in American television, there was a huge debate over 0:15:47.956 --> 0:15:51.876 the show's star character, the bigoted, reactionary Archie Bunker. 0:15:52.476 --> 0:15:55.596 Isn't anybody else interested in up Poland's standards? 0:15:56.236 --> 0:15:56.876 Oh wild? 0:15:57.036 --> 0:15:58.876 Just coming crumbling down? 0:15:59.476 --> 0:16:00.956 The coons are coming. 0:16:03.276 --> 0:16:07.596 Bunker was created to satirize conservative attitudes on race and sexuality, 0:16:08.276 --> 0:16:11.196 but in the end, the consensus among social scientists seem 0:16:11.276 --> 0:16:14.076 to be that he didn't do that at all. Here's 0:16:14.116 --> 0:16:16.556 the conclusion of the best known study on the show. 0:16:17.636 --> 0:16:20.516 We found that many persons did not see the program 0:16:20.636 --> 0:16:24.556 as a satire on bigotry. All such findings seem to 0:16:24.556 --> 0:16:28.596 suggest that the program is more likely reinforcing prejudice and 0:16:28.716 --> 0:16:33.636 racism than combating it. It didn't change any minds, and 0:16:33.676 --> 0:16:40.276 the same thing happens with loads of money. At one point, 0:16:40.636 --> 0:16:43.156 Enfield does a benefit for British nurses who are all 0:16:43.196 --> 0:16:46.676 on strike. Nurses in the UK are public sector employees 0:16:46.956 --> 0:16:50.516 and they want a modest race, and Thatcher, whose intent 0:16:50.596 --> 0:16:53.156 on shrinking the size of the public sector, won't give 0:16:53.196 --> 0:16:56.596 it to them. Sweat this benefit. Enfield comes out on 0:16:56.636 --> 0:16:59.156 stage as loads of money in his white trainers and 0:16:59.196 --> 0:17:02.556 acid washed genes and nylon shell and screams at them 0:17:02.556 --> 0:17:06.116 all get back to work, you scum that He burns 0:17:06.116 --> 0:17:08.356 a ten pound note on stage and the room of 0:17:08.436 --> 0:17:12.556 nurses goes wild. They love it. He's perfectly captured what 0:17:12.556 --> 0:17:16.316 they're up against. But the other side, the side they're 0:17:16.396 --> 0:17:18.196 up against, they love it too. 0:17:18.436 --> 0:17:20.636 And it got sort of taken on by the Sun, 0:17:20.836 --> 0:17:23.796 which was a very right wing paper and the kind 0:17:23.836 --> 0:17:27.396 of left wing papers. Basically everyone took it on. Everyone 0:17:27.436 --> 0:17:30.076 decided it was theirs, you know, they made him their property. 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:34.116 So the Sun looked on loads of money quite affectionately. 0:17:34.476 --> 0:17:37.236 Yeah, yeah, they thought it was great and it was 0:17:37.276 --> 0:17:40.556 a sign of Thatchers Britain that all working class people 0:17:40.556 --> 0:17:43.836 were getting richer. That's what they That was the propaganda. 0:17:44.116 --> 0:17:48.196 That was how they interpreted it. I guess yeah, which 0:17:48.396 --> 0:17:51.756 obviously wasn't really the case. But it was quite funny. 0:17:52.476 --> 0:17:56.796 Were you taken by surprise by the reception that loads 0:17:56.836 --> 0:17:57.516 of Money got. 0:17:57.916 --> 0:18:02.796 I was, why, well, just because you know, I've done 0:18:02.796 --> 0:18:06.116 other characters and they've been all right, but this seemed 0:18:06.116 --> 0:18:09.596 to go very big, and it got sort of in 0:18:09.596 --> 0:18:13.796 Parliament and then missus Satcha suddenly said we've got loads 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:17.196 of money economy or something, and then the leader of 0:18:17.196 --> 0:18:21.156 the opposition said, you know, you've created the loads of money. 0:18:21.236 --> 0:18:22.916 And they were both using it. One of them was 0:18:22.996 --> 0:18:26.876 using it with pride and the other one with you know, contempt, 0:18:26.956 --> 0:18:30.436 and it was odd, very odd. I didn't expect it 0:18:30.436 --> 0:18:31.236 at all, Malcolm. 0:18:31.956 --> 0:18:35.396 It really is odd. There are cultural histories written of 0:18:35.476 --> 0:18:38.396 the Thatcher years, and invariably they talk about loads of 0:18:38.436 --> 0:18:41.116 money and how the character was this great symbol of 0:18:41.156 --> 0:18:45.076 the era, and it's clear that enthusiasm for this grotesque 0:18:45.196 --> 0:18:47.876 mockery was even greater on the right than it was 0:18:47.916 --> 0:18:51.796 on the left. Finally, Enfield just kind of gives up, 0:18:52.196 --> 0:18:53.516 Tell me how you killed him off. 0:18:53.676 --> 0:18:55.876 Oh, I think he got well. I think I just 0:18:55.876 --> 0:18:58.196 stopped doing him. And then we were doing comic relief 0:18:58.436 --> 0:19:01.476 over here, and I think we did a sketch where 0:19:01.516 --> 0:19:03.836 he got run over. He was run over by a 0:19:03.916 --> 0:19:05.876 van on Live Telly for charity. 0:19:10.996 --> 0:19:14.836 The loads of money problem happens because satire is complicated. 0:19:15.556 --> 0:19:18.876 It's not like straightforward speech that's easy to decode. It 0:19:18.956 --> 0:19:23.196 requires interpretation. That's what draws you in, that's where the 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:27.476 humor lies. But that active interpretation has a cost. How 0:19:27.476 --> 0:19:30.236 the Lamar calls this the paradox of satire. 0:19:30.556 --> 0:19:33.636 So the trade off with satire becomes all of the thinking, 0:19:34.036 --> 0:19:36.676 or a lot of the thinking becomes devoted to what 0:19:37.356 --> 0:19:40.356 the comic means, who the target of the joke is, 0:19:40.956 --> 0:19:44.396 and as they interpret that, then they spend less time 0:19:44.436 --> 0:19:47.996 thinking about whether that warrants any kind of real consideration 0:19:48.636 --> 0:19:52.556 or counter arguing sort of the merits of that message. 0:19:52.836 --> 0:19:55.676 This doesn't happen when you listen to a straightforward discussion 0:19:55.716 --> 0:19:58.756 of politics, you just think about the arguments. 0:19:59.396 --> 0:20:03.076 But with satire here you're spending all of your time 0:20:03.116 --> 0:20:06.036 thinking about the nature of the comedy, which leaves very 0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:09.716 little mental resources available to think about whether the comedy 0:20:09.756 --> 0:20:10.236 has truth. 0:20:12.476 --> 0:20:14.916 There's a brilliant essay written on its very subject in 0:20:14.956 --> 0:20:18.356 the July twenty thirteen London Review of Books. It's called 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:21.636 Sinking Giggling into the Sea, and it's by the writer 0:20:21.756 --> 0:20:25.276 Jonathan Coe. You should read it. Co takes the argument 0:20:25.316 --> 0:20:28.996 against satire one step further. He says the effectiveness of 0:20:29.036 --> 0:20:32.676 satire is not just undermined by its complicated nature, by 0:20:32.676 --> 0:20:37.516 its ambiguity. Co says it's undermined by something else, the 0:20:37.636 --> 0:20:38.916 laughter it creates. 0:20:39.476 --> 0:20:41.716 Laughter, in a way, is a kind of last resort. 0:20:41.756 --> 0:20:44.556 If you're up against the problem which is completely intractable, 0:20:44.556 --> 0:20:46.556 if you're up against the situation for which there is 0:20:46.596 --> 0:20:50.236 no human solution and never will be, then okay, let's 0:20:50.316 --> 0:20:51.036 laugh about it. 0:20:52.836 --> 0:20:56.036 In say, the Humor of Laurel On Hardy, Co says 0:20:56.076 --> 0:20:58.796 that kind of laughing is perfectly appropriate. 0:20:59.036 --> 0:21:04.156 Because when you see them taking on some ridiculous sisyphean task, 0:21:04.276 --> 0:21:07.156 like pushing a piano up an endless flight of stairs, 0:21:08.116 --> 0:21:11.556 failing time and time again, then you know what they're 0:21:11.596 --> 0:21:13.796 asking you to laugh at. There is the human condition 0:21:13.876 --> 0:21:17.716 and the intractability of the forces of nature, and the 0:21:17.716 --> 0:21:20.596 forces of physics, which we can do nothing about, so 0:21:20.676 --> 0:21:23.276 of course we have to laugh with political problems. It's 0:21:23.276 --> 0:21:25.996 slightly different. I mean, some political problems are intractable, but 0:21:26.036 --> 0:21:28.916 some political problems can be solved, and perhaps instead of 0:21:29.636 --> 0:21:34.916 laughing about them, we should try and do something about them. 0:21:35.396 --> 0:21:38.916 I just hope that tonight the lamestream media won't twist 0:21:39.036 --> 0:21:42.076 my words by repeating them verbatim. 0:21:42.876 --> 0:21:46.396 Back at the beginning, I mentioned Tina Fey's brilliant impersonation 0:21:46.516 --> 0:21:50.156 of Sarah Palin on Saturday Night Live. I love those sketches. 0:21:50.676 --> 0:21:54.156 I think tinafe is a comic genius, but after listening 0:21:54.156 --> 0:21:57.396 to Heather Lamar and Jonathan Coe, I can't help but 0:21:57.476 --> 0:22:02.596 think that her comic genius is actually a problem. SNL 0:22:02.636 --> 0:22:05.436 brought Tina fe into skewer Palin out of a sense 0:22:05.436 --> 0:22:09.676 of outrage that someone this unqualified was running for higher 0:22:09.676 --> 0:22:13.436 office in two thousand and eight. Lots of people felt 0:22:13.436 --> 0:22:16.636 this way. Palin was the running mate of John McCain, 0:22:16.996 --> 0:22:20.596 an elderly senator of uncertain health. She could easily have 0:22:20.636 --> 0:22:24.036 been president. SNL was trying to hold Sarah Palin to 0:22:24.116 --> 0:22:27.636 some kind of scrutiny to say this is who she is. 0:22:28.596 --> 0:22:32.156 But looking back now, I don't think it worked because 0:22:32.196 --> 0:22:34.236 Tina Fey is too busy being funny. 0:22:34.396 --> 0:22:39.156 Oh please welcome the lovely Tina Faye. 0:22:40.516 --> 0:22:43.276 In October two thousand and eight, just before the election, 0:22:43.716 --> 0:22:45.836 Tina Fey does an interview with the talk show host 0:22:45.916 --> 0:22:49.876 David Letterman. Now, you would think with the vote looming, 0:22:50.236 --> 0:22:52.836 Fay and Letterman would want to talk about the subject 0:22:52.916 --> 0:22:56.436 of her satire, or the intention of her satire, the 0:22:56.476 --> 0:22:59.276 fact that someone this unqualified might be less than a 0:22:59.316 --> 0:23:02.756 month away from the vice presidency. But they don't. They 0:23:02.796 --> 0:23:06.236 talk entirely about the mechanics of Faye's satire. 0:23:06.516 --> 0:23:08.756 She got that crazy accent. It's a little bit far ago, 0:23:08.916 --> 0:23:12.876 with a little bit Reese Witherspoon an election. And it 0:23:12.996 --> 0:23:16.476