1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Cool media. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: This is it could happen here, a show about things 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis. This episode, I'm joined by 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: Mia Wong. 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 3: Mia. I have some upsetting news. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 2: Oh no, which is frankly one of the best ways 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: to start in this episode and one of the best 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: ways to start the show. So I'm pretty sure that 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: I found this account called uh, let's see at Haill Hitler, 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: and I think he's posting some things that is. 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 3: A little bit fascist. Oh wow. 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: I have decoded some of at Hell Hitler's communications and 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: I have uncovered a secret a secret Nazi code. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: Wow. This is. This is an incredibly unexpected revelation from 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 3: Hailed Hitler. 16 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: He has posted some pictures in like what I would 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: assume is some kind of military uniform that looks like 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: I don't know it's it's some kind of like like 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: Germanic military inform. But I've noticed that there are some 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: runes on this uniform that look very similar to the 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: Odal rune. So I'm thinking because of the ruine, this 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: guy might be a Nazi. 23 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 3: Thank you for your work, Harison. We could never have 24 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: determined this. That's right, I am. 25 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: You can find me at osent to Defender Online. No, 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: that doesn't for us today, and it could happen here now. 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: So this emisode, we're gonna talk about something that's been 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: slowly frustrating me the past few weeks, and that is 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: the misapplication of dog whistles. And let's just get right 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 2: into it. People have been noticing patterns, noticing trends in 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: official communications from the dhs gov online accounts, which now 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: is the main way the government sends out communications, unfortunately, 33 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: especially on X the Everything app. But this, this extends 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: outside of of X the Everything after, this extends outside 35 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: of Blue Sky the Internet in general. This is about 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: how we understand the messaging of fascists and understand how 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: rhetoric and anti fascist like education works, and ways that 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: I think it's currently being misapplied. 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: So bear with me. 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: This is going to be kind of an odd episode, 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: but I think I think it's worth it because I 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: don't want us falling into the same traps that we 43 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: maybe fell into eight years ago. So let's let's let's 44 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 2: start by talking about some communications posted on the internet 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: by at dhs gov. A picture of a painting titled 46 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: American Progress by John Gast, captioned a heritage to be 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: proud of, comma a homeland worth defending. So on the surface, 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: you know, maybe a slightly hashtag problematic sentiment here with 49 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: a hashtag problematic painting or at the very least of 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: painting depicting the genocide of Native Americans and Indigenous people 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: specifically with like a white supremacist outlook, with this enlarged 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: white woman bathed in a white cloak, bringing forth that 53 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 2: the tide of quote unquote progress as Indigenous people are 54 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: are forced to flee from the edge of the painting. 55 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: It's it's fun because this is a painting we literally 56 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: when they had to explain manifest destiny like colonialism good. 57 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: This is the painting that was in my textbook in 58 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: high school. Is three class like and it is like 59 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: the er, the er colonialism good, genocide, good. 60 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: Painting, genocide good. That that's what the painting is. But 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 2: what I have found through some hashtag research, there might 62 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: be a hidden code in this, in this communication from 63 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: the DHS, who already an agency that only has the 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: best interests and of really all people who strive for 65 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: human rights, the DHS. So if you count all of 66 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: the words in the tweet, guess how many words there 67 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: are in this tweet? Mea fifteen no, so close, so close, 68 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: fourteen fourteen words in this tweet, which might remind you 69 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: of the fourteen words the Nazi signifier, which I probably 70 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: just explain. Surely most people listening to this is familiar 71 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: with the fourteen words, since it seems everybody thinks they 72 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: are an armchair expert on fascist rhetoric. But the fourteen 73 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: words we must secure the existence of our people and 74 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 2: a future for white children. This became a popular hashtag 75 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: dog whistle, especially in the past. I would say ten 76 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: fifteen years, usually by implanting fourteen's and usually fourteen eighty 77 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: eights with eighty eight meaning Hyle Hitler because each is 78 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: the eighth letter of the alphabet. This became a common 79 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: Nazi tag. You could see this in graffiti, You see 80 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: this embedded into into posts, see this in like Nazi artwork. 81 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 2: And going back to this DHS post, we cannot only 82 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: count fourteen words in this tweet. This is actually a 83 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: fourteen eighty eight because two of the h's in this 84 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: in this post are capitalized unusually, and that means hal 85 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: Hitler Wow because hc eighth letter uh huh oh but wait, 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: actually looking at this post again, there's actually other words 87 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: in this tweet that are also unusually capitalized. 88 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: But don't worry. I don't worry. 89 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: This is still a dog whistle because those other words 90 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: that are capitalized in the first sentence are the letters 91 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: A and D, which, if you convert those into numbers, 92 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: are one in four, So it's actually another fourteen. 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: Oh wow, we're doing We're doing numerology. We're doing jamatria, 94 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,559 Speaker 3: where we've become Q and on so back. 95 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: So if you cannot tell by my thinly veiled sarcasm 96 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: in that last section, I think this methodology is a 97 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: little bit silly. 98 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: What are we doing? What are we doing here? 99 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: We're converting capitalized letters in the first half of a 100 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: tweet into numbers and then rearranging the order of those 101 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: letters to get a fourteen eighty eight. It's literally jerbatria, 102 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: and then also counting the total words in the whole 103 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: suite while still disregarding the capitalizations in the last four 104 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: words for another fourteen What are we doing? How is 105 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: this the piece of evidence that sinks sinks the Trump 106 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: administration and finally proves that they're fascist. You can just 107 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: look at all of the fascist policies the Trump administration 108 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: is enacting. Instead of doing numerology on tweets, people are thinking, 109 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: ha ha ha, I have decoded the secret Nazi message 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: with a HHD one eight eight fourteen. Nice trigroypers. Meanwhile, 111 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 2: you can just look at the actual text of the post. 112 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 2: You can look at the painting. Both of those things 113 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: have an inherent fascist quality. It's literally defending the concept 114 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: of ethnic genocide, of manifest destiny. While the administration, the 115 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: DHS is currently furthering as no nationalist policies. 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: They are doing this. This is homeland security, right. I 117 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: don't know if people realize that ICE is a part 118 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 3: of homeland security, but like, this is the agency that 119 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: is literally. 120 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: Rounding people up and sending them to camps. We have 121 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 4: camps in multiple countries now. But I say they're being 122 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 4: round up and sent to camps. It's genuinely unclear whether 123 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 4: what I'm talking about is the fucking concentration camp in Florida. 124 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: Sea Coat in nol Salvador. Yeah, I mean I think 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: people have now escape, so I can't technically call the 126 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: Honduras want a death camp. But like, again, there's any 127 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: people in South Udan, They're like, they're just doing this, 128 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 3: Like what are we doing here? 129 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: So this episode I want to focus on how people 130 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: are misusing anti fascist education, or I would argue they're 131 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: misusing anti fascist education and kind of missing the forest 132 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: for a cardboard cutout of trees, not even trees, kind 133 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: of something that could be a tree if you look 134 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: at it from one angle, but maybe isn't actually a 135 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: real tree. And you don't need to sound like a 136 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: da Vinci Code conspiracy theorist to point out the obvious, 137 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: like dog whistles don't matter if the regular whistle is 138 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: already fascist. If they're just saying things openly and doing things, 139 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: what purpose does a dog whistle? And this is something 140 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: that we're going to discuss. Are not just saying this 141 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: and closing the episode, We're going to get into these 142 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: And I think part of what's happening here everybody is 143 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: so cooked by the paranoid style of American politics. Everyone 144 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: is it's so eager to decode the hidden messages that 145 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: we're missing what's right in front of us. QAnon has 146 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: a total victory. Qwanon does not really exist in the 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 2: way that it did in twenty eighteen. That the q 148 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: Andon cult and conspiracy theory as like a singular cultish 149 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: project is kind of no more. But q Andon has 150 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: a cultural victory over the entire United States, and not 151 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: just on the right wing, not just on Mega. So 152 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: much of American politics now is litigating who is and 153 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: is not a pedophile, who is and is not trafficking children, 154 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: who can notice which events are staged, who can notice 155 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: hidden codes, who can decode anonymous messages on the Internet, 156 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: And this is what like everything is, And like the 157 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: real turning point I think for the right wing was 158 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: probably the twenty twenty election, in like a massive fracture 159 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 2: from reality in which they think that election was legitimately stolen. 160 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: And obviously there was many events leading up to that 161 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: which which contributed to this. Yeah, And I think one 162 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: of the biggest fracture points for liberals was the attempted 163 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: assassination of Donald Trump, with people creating whole new alternate 164 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 2: realities that that event was staged. And because that door 165 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: is opened now I'm seeing such a massive flood of 166 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 2: things that I would label as blueing on conspiracy theories, 167 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 2: which is kind of a nonsense term, but it gets 168 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: the point across and I'm gonna do a whole piece 169 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: on bluing on very soon. I've been collecting blueing on 170 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories for a while, but I want to do 171 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: something specifically about this fourteen eighty eight and like secret 172 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: codes thing, because it's so evocative of like, you know, 173 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: Q drops, and it's evocative of, you know, searching for 174 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: Masonic codes, something that American conspiracy theorists have been doing 175 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: for generations. And we're to talk about that more and 176 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: read a little bit of an essay on that topic 177 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: after this ad break, and I will let you know 178 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: there's gonna be two messages in the ad break that 179 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: if you decode, you win a special prize at the 180 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: end of the episode, So make sure you listen to 181 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 2: every single second of the ad in case you miss 182 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: the code. Okay, we are back, speaking of the paranoid 183 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: style in American politics. I want to quote a few 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: sections to kind of frame what I'm talking about here. 185 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: This was an essay written in the sixties by Richard 186 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: hoff Setter Hoffstetter Richard Hoffstetter one of the first like 187 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: modern pieces on American conspiracy culture and politics. I'm gonna 188 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: I have three paragraphs here that I that I selected 189 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: as being relevant to the current the current topic at hand. 190 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: Quote. 191 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: There is a style of mind that is far from 192 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: new and that is not necessarily right wing. I call 193 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: it the paranoid style simply because no other word added 194 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy 195 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: that I have in mind. Nothing really prevents a sound 196 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: program or demand from being advocated in the paranoid style. 197 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: Style has more to do with the way in which 198 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 2: ideas are believed than with the truth or falsity of 199 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: their contact. 200 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: Unquote. 201 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: And I like that section specifically because fourteen eighty eight 202 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: is a real dog whistle. We can see this used. 203 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: There is aspects of people who are trying to search 204 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: for this and trying to search for patterns in the 205 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 2: communications of an admittedly fascistic government agency that I find 206 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: like sympathetic, Like can I can understand because Yeah, that 207 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: is a real dog whistle. I'm going to continue the quote. 208 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 3: Quote. 209 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms. 210 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: He traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, 211 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is 212 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at 213 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: a turning point. Like religious millenarianists, he expresses the anxiety 214 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: of those who are living through the last days, and 215 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: he is sometimes disposed to set a date for the apocalypse. 216 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: As a member of the avant garde who is capable 217 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: of perceiving the conspiracy before it is fully obvious to it. 218 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 2: As of yet to unaroused public, the paranoid is a 219 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: militant leader. Demand for total triumph leads to the formulation 220 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since these goals are not 221 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens the paranoid's sense of frustration. 222 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 3: Quote. 223 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: Hofstetter is talking about something that that me and Robert 224 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: specifically have have discussed a lot on this show before. 225 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: How everyone in America wants to have access to secret information. 226 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: M h. Everyone wants to. 227 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 2: Have the exclusive piece of secret intel that will solve everything, 228 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: and like having having that informational exclusivity in a world 229 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: of information saturation, right of a vortex of like meaningless noise. 230 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: It's it's such a romantic idea that that I alone 231 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: have the info or the clue to pieces together, and 232 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: it's my duty to inform the masses. It's a very 233 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: romantic notion, and. 234 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 3: It's also one that is exactly perfectly anti suited for 235 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: the moment we live in, which is actually just a 236 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: moment where everything that is happening is just so clearingly literal, 237 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 3: like it's all out of the oden, Like what is 238 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: happening with the Trump administration. Okay, in twenty twenty, there 239 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: is a massive uprising to attempt to attempt to fundamentally 240 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: change like the structurally racist nature of the United States, 241 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: to deal with its fucking class inequalities, to deal with 242 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: the structural violence of the state. This was reacted to 243 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: by a massive fascist movement that spent half a decade 244 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: gaining power and then finally took power in the form 245 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: of like a bunch of pistol petite bourgeois fucking car 246 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: dealers and like literally a billionaire real estate mogul backed 247 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: by the richest tech company guy in the world, right, 248 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: and they came together to build fascism. This is the 249 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: most straightforward, like if this is a conception of how 250 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: a fascist takeover works, that he's so thuddingly literal that 251 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 3: It defies narrativization because it's just there. There's no subtlety 252 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 3: to it. They're just saying it. They just want to 253 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 3: do it, and they're doing it. But everyone is convinced 254 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: that there's like some kind of secret hitting conspiracy and 255 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: it's like no, they're just doing the thing that they're saying. 256 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can argue that we have a griper occupied 257 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: government not because of counting words and posts, but because 258 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: of not only who they're bringing on for DOGE, but 259 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: literally Ice in DHS as of today, which I'm recording 260 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: this on Wednesday, I think because this comes out Wednesday night, 261 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: are copying like Patriot Front style tactics of loading up 262 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: ICE agents in U haul style rentable trucks to hunt 263 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: down people to assault and kidnap, like they're just copying 264 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 2: the Patriot Front playbook. Here, the ICE director said that 265 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: he wants an Amazon like mass deportation system, calling it 266 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: quote unquote Amazon Prime, but with human beings. They're saying this, 267 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: you can listen to the actual words. I'm going to 268 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: read another quote here from the Paranoid Style of American 269 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: Politics essay quote. A final characteristic of the paranoid style 270 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: is related to the quality of its pedantry. One of 271 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: the impressive things about paranoid literature is the contrast between 272 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: its fantasized conclusions and the almost touching concern with factuality 273 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: it invariably shows. It produces heroic strivings for evidence to 274 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: prove that the unbelievable is the only thing that can 275 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: be believed respectable. Paranoid literature not only starts from certain 276 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: moratal commitments that can indeed be justified, but also carefully 277 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: and all but obsessively accumulates quote unquote evidence. The paranoid 278 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: seems to have little expectation for actually convincing a hostile world, 279 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: but he can accumulate evidence in order to protect his 280 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: cherished convictions from it unquote. And I think that gets 281 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: into the psychological mechanisms on why people are doing this, 282 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: this naze code hunting. It's actually a form of self coping, 283 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 2: looking at the horrific state of the federal government, looking 284 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: at the brazenness in which ICE is operating, and this 285 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 2: is a self preservation mechanism. Someone on Blue Sky that 286 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: I was talking to about this is like arguing, like 287 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: Ice doesn't need to dog whistle, they have no reason 288 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: to like dog whistling is for trying to like sneakily 289 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: get racists or fascist into power while signaling to a 290 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 2: nationalistic base that they are like one of them. 291 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: Right, But these guys are. 292 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: Already in power, and the base already knows that they're 293 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: in power. There's no point in dog whistle. They're just 294 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 2: using ice to establish an ethno state. They're using explicit 295 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: ethno state rhetoric. In a post from this morning which 296 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine 297 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: ten words not fourteen ten words, Wow, DHS said quote, 298 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: serve your country, defend your culture, no undergraduate degree required. 299 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: Defend your culture. It's not about locking up criminal migrants. 300 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: It's about defending a culture from its destruction through ethnic 301 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: demographic shifts. It's they're not trying to obscure what they're 302 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 2: doing in the slightest No. 303 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: And I want to return to something else that the 304 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: Hofstater said that in that second paragraph that you read 305 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 3: about how like one of the central conceits is that like, 306 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: you know, there's this giant conspiracy that's being unleashed and 307 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: the American public doesn't know anything about it, and like, yeah, 308 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: you can. You know, it is distressing to a large extent, 309 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: the extent to which people just don't know what the 310 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 3: government is doing. But also like if you look at 311 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 3: any pulling at all, but anything the people are doing, 312 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: everyone hates it. There isn't like a secret thing that 313 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 3: you can say to convince people that they're that all 314 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: these people are Nazis, because it's like and that's not 315 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 3: even a particularly useful project because everyone fucking hates them already, 316 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 3: like trying to fight this in the realm of sort 317 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: of the accumulation of the evidence of conspiracy instead of 318 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: in the realm of like, Hi, i'm your neighbor, you 319 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 3: also fucking hate this. Let's go fucking like do this 320 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: should people are doing in la and like follow these 321 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 3: fucking ice fans around, right, That is stuff that people 322 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 3: are doing, but it doesn't have the kind of like 323 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: instant emotional gratification and register of trying to like accumulate 324 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 3: hordes of secret knowledge, so people do it less even 325 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 3: though it's less effective. 326 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 2: In my discussion of this, like online on various cursed 327 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 2: social media sites, I've gotten a lot of pushback to 328 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: my pushback of these tactics and what I see as 329 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: a sort of like abuse of anti fascist education, right, 330 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: because people like you know, Robert Evans, myself, you know, 331 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 2: Molly Conger spent the past eight years trying to actually, 332 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: you know, educate people about like Nazi rhetoric, like in 333 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 2: like Nazi signals and dog whistles, right, and as an 334 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: attempt to. 335 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: Hopefully prevent them from expanding their power. 336 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 2: And we may have succeeded in education, but we may 337 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 2: have failed in the prevention. 338 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: Of them seizing power. 339 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: And that also makes me kind of question the effectiveness 340 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: of certain tactics. And it's now very odd to see 341 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 2: things that we you know, argued for visibility around to 342 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 2: kind of be used in ways that don't really make sense. 343 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: That it's it's it's kind of like trying to tame 344 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 2: a monster that you've partially created. And it's so frustrating 345 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: to me because, I mean, one person who I was 346 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 2: lightly arguing about this on line was was saying, like, 347 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 2: this is not numerology, and we don't have to be 348 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: just okay with a clear attempt to normal white nationalist rhetoric. 349 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: And like, first of all, like codes aren't rhetoric. Codes 350 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: are codes, and the textual fascist sentence is the rhetoric. 351 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: What they're actually like saying which has like proto fascist 352 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 2: or fascistic aspects, that is the rhetoric and they're doing it. 353 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: Is there somebody out there in twenty twenty five who's 354 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 2: gonna finally realize that DHS as an agency has fascistic 355 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 2: underpinnings via a chronically online Twitter user explaining that if 356 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 2: you count words and turn certain captize letters into numbers, 357 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: it makes a secret Nazi message. 358 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: Is there one person is going to become convinced to us? No, 359 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 3: that's not the purpose. 360 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: And so trying to conceptize this is like we have 361 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 2: to make sure we call out the use of Nazi 362 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: rhetoric that doesn't apply to this specific thing that we're 363 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: talking about. 364 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, and also like I think, you know, like I 365 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: think we've sort of kind of just to some extent, 366 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: we've just failed on the normalization for it, because again, 367 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: like it's the President of the United States. Yeah, this 368 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 3: is the official account of the Department of Homeland Security. 369 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: It has already become normalized because they have power. The 370 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: only way to denormalize it is not actually to do 371 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: media critique. It's to like actually oppose them. But that's scary, 372 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: that's scary. Report to marry Meia. Do you know what's 373 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: easy posting on X the everything app Yeah, this is 374 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: how this kind of conspiratorial worldview actually empowers the state, 375 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 3: because the central conceit of the conspiratorial worldview is that 376 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 3: there is a nearly all powerful agency that controls in 377 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: apparatus that enables it to basically control any events that 378 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: it wants. Right, this is why you can stage things. 379 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 3: This is why I can recollection. This is why it 380 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 3: can like I don't know, like it can just like 381 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 3: magically like disappear anyone. It can replace them with anyone. 382 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: It can stage any protest movement it wants to, right, 383 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: And I think you've seen this a lot in the 384 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 3: American case, where like I see people who are like 385 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 3: genuinely well meaning leftists who are convinced that if you 386 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 3: do anything to resist the American State, you will immediately 387 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 3: be killed because the American state is all powerful and irresistible. 388 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 3: And that's just fascist propaganda. Yeah, you're falling victim to 389 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 3: the panoptic house. Yeah, but it's fascist propaganda that fits 390 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: into the narrative structure of conspiracy. And because the state 391 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: is dangerous, right and can hurt you, it's very very 392 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 3: easy to you know, accumulate structures of evidence that support 393 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 3: the emotional sort of core of this thing that is 394 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 3: just literally fascist propaganda. People are resisting the state every day, right, 395 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 3: Why is ICE fucking doing patriot prayer tactics and fucking 396 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 3: like hiding people in like fucking U hauls to jump 397 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 3: out and grab people. It's because when they tried to 398 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 3: fucking mass we stomp them, right. 399 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: And when they drive around in their cars and you 400 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: can see them. 401 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 3: Through the window, everyone follows them. 402 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 2: People can follow them around and alert their community members 403 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 2: on where ICE is. 404 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 3: Like again, mother motherfuckers and fucking Lulu Levin shit, are 405 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 3: like screaming at ICE agents when they try to arrest people, 406 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 3: like yeah, that's the actual condition we're in. 407 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 2: And like, yeah, regular people. And that's why I find 408 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 2: some people who would be you know, self described as 409 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: like anti fascists or self described is as leftists almost 410 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 2: falling into this trap like more so than others. And 411 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 2: it's a little bit evident of something that like I've 412 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 2: described as like the forever twenty sixteen, how we're all 413 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: kind of stuck in the mindset of this twenty sixteen, 414 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen twenty eighteen era, and where you have this 415 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: unwillingness to realize that that's not the political situation on 416 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: the ground anymore. We are actually not in Charlottesville. This 417 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 2: is a different situation. This is twenty twenty five. And 418 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: one other like defense of this, you know, code hunting 419 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 2: that I've seen people say is quote, Nazis love playing 420 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 2: games like this, so it's important that we call it out. 421 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: And another person saying, quote, this is a fun little 422 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 2: game for their group chats while they kill and disappear people, unquote, 423 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: and like, first of all. 424 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 3: This is not a game. 425 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: This is actual people's lives, who are who are being deported, 426 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: who are being sent to foreign prison camps. These are 427 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: not games. And and I think that view of like 428 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: anti fascist like education risks repeating like the Okay symbol 429 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 2: debacle right where dog whistles end up being created or 430 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: spread further due to this gamified version of like Easter 431 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 2: egg anti fascism. It's kind of like the Barber streisand 432 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: effect where you end up almost accidentally making them start 433 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: doing the thing, which Nazis always have that like frustrating 434 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 2: impulse because they're the little bitch boy ideology. I think 435 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: as a rat limit put it one of one of 436 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: my favorite posters, and like, I'm not saying that Nazi 437 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: signposting should be ignored, but I think we should be 438 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: thoughtful and careful of how we do it. To recap 439 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: the Okay symbol thing that was invented as like a 440 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 2: fake dog whistle to try to trick leftists into convincing 441 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: like the media, and had then having the media trying 442 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: to convince the people that anyone who uses like the 443 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 2: okayhand symbol is secretly a fascist, and this scheme worked, 444 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: and eventually the Oka symbol big came an actual symbol 445 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 2: used for fascists to identify each other through this ironic 446 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: detachment because it was being talked about in the news 447 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 2: as a secret Nazi symbol, even though this whole thing 448 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: was like invented as like a joke online. And I'm 449 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: afraid I've started to already see a similar thing happen 450 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: with the fourteen words dog whistle, with an increased use 451 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 2: of the fourteen words and invoking the fourteen words among 452 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 2: far right accounts, specifically because of this whole debacle with 453 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 2: the dhs gov account and there a heritage to be 454 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: proud of homeland worth defending American Progress like ethnonationalist posting. 455 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: And I truly cannot say one way or another if 456 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 2: that American Progress post had a intentionally embedded fourteen words 457 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: dog whistle inside, I can't. I can't tell you that. 458 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 2: And the point trying to make is that it kind 459 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: of doesn't matter. But the way we talk about dog 460 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 2: whistles does matter. And as frustrating as it is that, 461 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 2: sometimes this feels like we're just living in the meme 462 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 2: where the Nazi starts shaving his head because everyone's calling 463 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: him a Nazi. That is how Nazis work sometimes. And 464 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to play into this attention spectacle that 465 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: they so badly want. 466 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: But you know what I do want right now? Is 467 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: it the process and services that support this podcast. 468 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 2: Another ad break, that's right, be sure to listen for 469 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 2: the third and fourth hidden clue in these ads. 470 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 3: All right, we are back to briefly take a small 471 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 3: tangent here. I think there is something very important about 472 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 3: like the fact that role stuck in twenty sixteen, which 473 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 3: was sort of like the peak of irony right as 474 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: a social affect, has left us really unprepared for now 475 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 3: where everything is just sort of like, you know, they're 476 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: just doing it and saying it right. Yeah, And it's 477 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 3: not this sort of like irony pill deniability shit. They 478 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: just do it and people are just not prepared for that. 479 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 2: They're able to wage this war kind of on both fronts, 480 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: and I think they are still pushing this. I'm going 481 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: to quote from a friend of the pod rat Limit, 482 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: one of my favorite mutes quote prediction, the Nazi salute 483 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 2: will become common within two years. Right wingers will half 484 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: asset for plausible deniability, mimify the backlash, and then start 485 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: fully doing it quote unquote as a joke to quote 486 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: unquote troll the Libs for being hysterical enough to think 487 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 2: that they were doing it in the first place. Fascism 488 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: is a little bitch ideology because it's too timid to 489 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: enact as cruelty until it can frame its cruelty as 490 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: retaliation against others for anticipating it. And this has been 491 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: proven right faster than I think what rat Limit predicted. 492 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: There's this current trend on x the Everything app where 493 00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: white girl aspiring influencers are doing Nazi style and trying 494 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: to mimify the backlash. Several posts going viral of these 495 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: of these like aspiring influencers either at the pool or 496 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: cooking or doing laundry or walking your dog while having 497 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: a your arm in a Elon Musk, my heart goes 498 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: out to you Nazi salute style fashion. Yeah, and I 499 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: think focusing media attention on someone like Musk doing a 500 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,479 Speaker 2: Nazi salute makes sense, right, he is like an actual 501 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 2: person affiliated with the government. But making a whole media 502 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 2: bled just about random blue check Twitter girls, Maybe not 503 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: so much. Maybe that doesn't have any actual value if 504 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: a random like a random Twitter poster from Missouri is 505 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: trying to garner backlash by doing a Hyle Hitler salute 506 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: in their kitchen next to their instapot. 507 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: I keep coming back to the thing that I wrote 508 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: about the original Loss salute and about the ways that everyone, 509 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: you know, like one of the functions of capitalism is 510 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: that everyone has been trained to experience the world and 511 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 3: think in the image of action instead of like actually 512 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: existing things. That's what I want to talk about next. Yeah, Yeah, 513 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: let's do this, Let's do this. Yeah, go for it, 514 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: go for it. 515 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: No. I think part of this focus on like these 516 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 2: hidden codes and even just like these messages online is 517 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: a liberal opposition to the aesthetics of deportation, but not 518 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: necessarily the act itself. It's carrying out deportations in a 519 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: mode that seems not in line with like neoliberal governing. 520 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: And that's I think what a bunch of the backlash 521 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: being focused on the aesthetics of the Trump administration, Like 522 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 2: how they film like gaudy ASMR videos that they post 523 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: from the White House account of deportations and use military planes. 524 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: Those are aesthetic differences, and those differences may be important, 525 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 2: and they're they're bad, right. I'm not saying these things 526 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: are good. Those things are still bad. Yeah, But when 527 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: that gets focused on slightly more than just the pure 528 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: acted deportation itself, that I think is evident of being 529 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: trapped in this like capitalist realism, being trapped in this 530 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: like like this neoliberal. 531 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, the society of the spectacle exactly right. 532 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: Let's like in June, Ice arrested thirty thousand people and 533 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 2: did eighteen thousand deportations. In May it was twenty four 534 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: thousand arrests in eighteen thousand deportations. Since February, the Trump 535 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: admin Has averaged about fourteen thousand and seven hundred deportations 536 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 2: of month. The highest number of deportations ever was in 537 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen under Obama, averaging thirty six thousand a month. 538 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: The Biden admin averaged almost thirteen thousand. When the Trump 539 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: administration started using military planes for deportations back in January, 540 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: mainly as an aesthetic choice that triggered backlash and rejections 541 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: from Mexico and Colombia. Mexico refused to allow US military 542 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: aircraft carrying deported migrants to land in their country. Columbia 543 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 2: also barred two military planes full of migrants, but later 544 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: caved as Trump threatened unitive tariffs. You can see the 545 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: same thing about deploying military to the border, something that 546 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 2: Biden also did, but has a larger aesthetic backlash under Trump. 547 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: Do you have something you want to say on this 548 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: like image aspect? I have some quotes from Fisher and 549 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: that's kind of all I have left. 550 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is very fitting of our styles 551 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 3: of politics that you're going to Fisher here, and I'm 552 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 3: going to Benjamin. Benjamin is quoted in these sections that 553 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 3: Fisher is pulling from as well. Yep, yep. So I'll 554 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: go into the source. I'm not going through the fucking 555 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: cru bullshit like pop marksis running doc but no, but like, 556 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: you know, like one of the things that that Walter Benjamin, 557 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: who people genuinely really should read. He's one of the 558 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 3: great original theorists of fascism, and he fucking died trying 559 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: to flee the Nazis. And one of his arguments was that, 560 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 3: you know, one of the cores of fascism is the 561 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 3: replacement of politics with aesthetics. Right, that aesthetics would have 562 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: allow you to you know, feel represent like feel representation 563 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 3: instead of do the action. And this is this is 564 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: an analysis that has been sort of like folded through 565 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of different analyzes of how capitalism functions. Right, 566 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: This is this is one of the three lines of 567 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 3: the society a spectacle, and it's this real issue that 568 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 3: we're dealing with now because again kind of in a sense, 569 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 3: what has happened to everything, right, And you can argue 570 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 3: to some extent that like our channel being called cool 571 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: zone media is sort of this is that all politics 572 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 3: from every side has been completely reduced to aesthetics. And 573 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: completely reducing it to aesthetics allows like allows the fascist 574 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: mode of politics to simply draw in a bunch of 575 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 3: people who can sort of just now passively experience living 576 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 3: through these sort of through this sort of collection of 577 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 3: images and this emotional aesthetic. Yeah, and it also is 578 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 3: doing the same thing to us. But the thing is 579 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: they have the fucking state and we don't, right, And 580 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 3: so if you don't fucking exit, if you don't exit 581 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 3: the sort of mirror world of esthetic of sort of 582 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 3: like a fucking living in images, right, and you know, 583 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 3: go do the actual shit that the Boord is talking 584 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 3: about in the society a spectacle, were you and all 585 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: your friends formed workers councils and fucking start taking all 586 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 3: of the ship back from all of the people who 587 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: were taking it from you. You're just gonna live in 588 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: the fascist time heare forever. 589 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you could look at the union resistance to 590 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 2: icedy importations, specifically in LA with russaurant workers that it's 591 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: literally doing that. And like I would argue, like now, 592 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 2: it's not so much that fascism is politics as aesthetics, 593 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 2: but especially now, it is an aestheticized politics. And you 594 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: can even see that in so far as its focuses 595 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 2: on you know, like race and like ethnic purity, like 596 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 2: blood and soil. That's why they're posting American progress, driving 597 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 2: out the indigenous people with the aryan white lady carrying 598 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: the torch of progress. It is an asceticized politics on 599 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: like a very pure level. And again, to quote from 600 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: my goat, uh this antiat quote Mark Fisher in captus 601 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: ualism quote, ultra tarianism and capital are by no means incompatible. 602 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 2: Internment camps and franchise coffee bars coexist. Neoliberals, the capitalist 603 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: realists par excellence, have celebrated the destruction of public space, 604 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 2: but contrary to their official hopes, there is no withering 605 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: away of the state, only a stripping back of the 606 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: state to its core military and police functions. 607 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 3: Unquote. This is very similar to something. 608 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 2: That me and Mia talked about right as Trump got elected, 609 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 2: in terms of the state becoming more removed but hostile. 610 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, although although I see again I disagree official here, 611 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 3: because the neo liberals understood what they were doing to 612 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 3: begin with. They were never trying to wither the state away. 613 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 3: That was just the lies that they told the fucking basses. 614 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: Like sure, I mean, that's what contrary to their official Yeah. 615 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like you know, quote, such a. 616 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: Blight can only be eased by an intervention that can 617 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 2: be no more anticipated than was the onset of the curse. 618 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 3: In the first place. 619 00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 2: Action is pointless, only senseless. Hope makes sense. Superstitious and 620 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 2: religion the first resorts of the helpless proliferate unquote. This 621 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 2: is part of what I conceptualize as this code. Hunting 622 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 2: is almost a form of this hopeless superstition to continue quote. 623 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 2: The catastrophe is neither waiting down the road, nor has 624 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: it already happened. Rather, it is being lived through. There 625 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 2: is no punctual moment of disaster. The world doesn't end 626 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: with a bang. It winks out, unravels, gradually falls apart. 627 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 2: What caused the catastrophe to occur? Who knows its cause? 628 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 2: Lies long in the past, so absolutely detached from the 629 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 2: present as to seem like the caprice of a maligned 630 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 2: being a negative miracle, a melidation which no penance can ameliorate. 631 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 2: The turn from belief to aesthetics, from engagement to spectatorship 632 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 2: is held to be one of the virtues of capitalist 633 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 2: realism unquote. And yeah, that's what me is talking about 634 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 2: with Gidebor and society of the spectacle. That's a trap 635 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people are falling into 636 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: right now. And though it's arguable that living in a 637 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: liberal contradiction may be preferable to fascist authoritarianism, that sullys 638 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: that mean it's like good, right, That's not what we're 639 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 2: arguing here. Fisher then quotes French philosopher Alawn Badeu quote 640 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: to justify their conservatism. The partisans of the established order 641 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 2: cannot really call it ideal or wonderful, so instead they've 642 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: decided to say that all of the rest is horrible. Sure, 643 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 2: they say, we may not live in a condition of 644 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: perfect goodness, but we are lucky that we don't live 645 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: in a condition of evil. Our democracy is not perfect, 646 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 2: but it's better than bloody dictatorships. Capitalism is unjust, but 647 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 2: it's not criminal like Stalinism. We let millions of Africans 648 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: die of AIDS, but we don't make racist nationalist declarations 649 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 2: like Lamosovich. We kill Iraqis with our airplanes, but we 650 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: don't cut their throats with machetes like they do in Rwanda. 651 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 3: Unquote. And already parts of this are slightly outdated. Oh yeah, because. 652 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 2: Now, but this is the thing is both are tragedies 653 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: where millions people die right. One of them is through 654 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 2: the aesthetics of neoliberalism. The other one is through asthetics 655 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 2: of racist nationalistic declarations, which the Trump administration is currently 656 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 2: playing with. That is what they decided to do, and 657 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 2: so the reaction to it is on this aesthetic note, 658 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 2: not necessarily on this pure actual humanistic opposition to deportations 659 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 2: as a process that is inhumane that we should not 660 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: allow at all. 661 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. I see the logic of this all the fucking time, 662 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 3: talking to people, where like we'll be like, okay, like 663 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 3: no deportations, and then you get a whole bunch of 664 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 3: people being like, wow, but what about criminals just like 665 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 3: some some deportation. What is this is the structural logic 666 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 3: of the original like deportation blitz from Trump. 667 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 2: Creating a class of undesirables that you can then always 668 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 2: add to and press the border on, like what Karl 669 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 2: Schmidt talks about. 670 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 3: This is the structural logic of fascism. Yeah, but everyone 671 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 3: everyone thinks about deportations this way now, and they're mad 672 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 3: that Trump is doing it and not Biden. But you know, 673 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 3: until people actually break through the sort of pere opposition 674 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 3: to the aesthetics and actually start you know, having a 675 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 3: kind of totalizing opposition to the system that is doing this. 676 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 3: We're just going to be stuck here. 677 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 2: And this is I think one of the limits of 678 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 2: using anti fascism as this, like aesthetic code hunting, is 679 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: because a few days ago the THS posted a Woody 680 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 2: Guthrie song, his song America the Beautiful, with the DHS 681 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 2: posting the promise of America is worth protecting, the future 682 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 2: of our homeland is worth defending. Notably, everyone in this 683 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 2: video is all white people, which this sentiment is the 684 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 2: same thing as the fourteen words, except it has fifteen words, 685 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 2: so therefore not a Nazi dog whistle. We're safe, guys, 686 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 2: We're good. I counted the words. There's fifteen of them, 687 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 2: so you can disregard what the actual text is saying. 688 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: And I think that is like the prime, the prime 689 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 2: contradiction in which I am growing increasingly frustrated. So that's 690 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 2: most of what I have to say say about the 691 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 2: limits of Nazi coode hunting and the aesthetics of superstition 692 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 2: and the paranoid style in American politics. Mia, do you 693 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 2: have any any final wyse Wise notes. 694 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 3: The time for Nazi code hunting, if there ever was 695 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 3: one has passed. It is now time to end the 696 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 3: episode right here. 697 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 2: That's right, it is related for anything. Oh and if 698 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 2: you were able to decode the hidden message in the 699 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: ad break, send the contents of the message via email 700 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 2: to your local congressman to redeem your prize. 701 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 3: By bye. 702 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 703 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 704 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 705 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 706 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 3: You listen to podcasts. 707 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, 708 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.