1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never told You from how stupports 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we are covering a topic 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: that personally I thought was a relic of a bygone era, 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: something that we didn't quite have to worry about anymore, 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: because it was something that only happened to women in 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: ancient or old cultures. And that is mass hysteria. And 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: it is by far not a relic of a bygone era. 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: Mass hysteria also goes by names such as, wait for it, 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: mass psychogenic illness, mass sociogenic illness, collective hysteria, and conversion disorder. 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: And I came across some blogs recently talking about this 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: topic because in the last decade, not only has it 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: popped up in the news a lot, but it is 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: popped up in the news because it is happening it 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: seems solely to teenage girls at school. Well, let's talk 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: a little bit about anecdotally what mass hysteria is, because 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: when you first alerted me to this topic, Caroline, I 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: had no clue what you were talking about. I received 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: an email saying, hey, we should do something on mass hysteria. 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: And I just stared blankly at my scream for a moment. 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: But once I started reading about it and watching interviews 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: with these girls affected by these cases of so called 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: mass hysteria, I was captivated because what it looks like 24 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: when interviewers are talking to these girls. There's a segment, 25 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: for instance, of girls on Doctor Drew talking about this, 26 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: this esteemed show, television show, Doctor Drew. It looks like 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: these girls have something akin to Tourette's syndrome. Yes, absolutely, 28 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: a lot of these girls across across cases. What you know, 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: wherever this has happened, these girls tend to experience ticks, uh, shouting, shaking, 30 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: all of this kind of stuff that, yeah, you would 31 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: associate typically with Tourette's. And it ends up. What ends 32 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: up happening in a lot of these cases is health professionals, 33 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: the media like people flood these towns. You know. Aaron 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: Brockovich went to one school where this was happening and 35 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: wanted to test the soil. She was concerned that a 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: train derailment several decades before was leading to some strange 37 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: health condition. And basically what was found uh in that 38 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: particular case in New York and several others is just 39 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: that No, this isn't an organic environmental toxin that's causing this. 40 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: It seems to be something that is much more in 41 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: the brain. Now, this might be ringing bells for people 42 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: due to that upstate New York case. This was a 43 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: situation what happened at place called Leroy High School where 44 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: thirteen girls and one boy started experiencing twitching, clapping, and 45 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: shouting ticks. And I remember seeing one of the interviews 46 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: with a girl who had a bruise on her face 47 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: because her ticks were so violent that her her cheek 48 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: was slamming into her shoulder and actually bruising her. And yeah, 49 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: and they and they looked high and low for some 50 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of toxin, some kind of environmental explanation. And there 51 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: was actually a study published in the New England Journal 52 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: of Medicine saying we could not find anything. And they 53 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 1: poured a ton of money into looking for reasons why, 54 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: Like the state came out and said, hey, we've we've 55 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: put six figures into this case. Nothing we got nothing. Yeah, 56 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: And so basically mass hysteria or or these other common 57 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: terms for it is used to describe the situation in 58 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: which several people suffer from similar hysterical symptoms, either from 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: a fan into illness or an inexplicable event. And actually 60 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: it happens way more often than I thought. Dr Mark Hallett, 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: who's with the National Institutes of Health, said that on 62 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: average they get reports of to such cases a week 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: a week, Yeah, and a lot of In fact, half 64 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: of these mass psychogenic illnesses occur in schools. And there 65 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: is a highly gendered aspect to this, which is why 66 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: we're talking about it on the podcast, because it's far 67 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: more common among young women than any other demographic group. Yeah, 68 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: and I mean yes, there are outliers for for sure. 69 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Usually it'll happen among a group of young women out 70 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: of school. But as you know, we'll get into this 71 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: thanks to news coverage, social media coverage, other people can 72 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: quote unquote catch it if they're kind of keeping up 73 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: with this story. But talking specifically about the gender link. Uh. 74 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: Robert Bartholomy, who's sort of like the leading name in 75 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: the field of mass hysteria. UH. He's a sociologist in 76 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand who's been studying cases of mass hysteria for 77 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: more than twenty years, said that typically masssteria is confined 78 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: to a group of girls or young women who share 79 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: a common physical space for a majority of the time. 80 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: So young women in schools getting this mass hysteria. It 81 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: all makes sense according to Bartholomew. And this guy should know. 82 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: He has studied more than six hundred cases dating back 83 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: to fifteen sixties six and he said, listen, the gender link, 84 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: it's undeniable. It's just a question of why. And we'll 85 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: dig into possible wise for that later in the podcast. Um, 86 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: but one thing that Bartholomew has said is that there 87 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: has been a quote sudden upsurge in cases of mass hysteria. 88 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: And there was an article in The Atlantic that came 89 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: out in September of two talking to Bartholomew and covering 90 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: cases including Leroy and one standout individual in that case 91 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: because which was this older woman in the community who 92 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: was not affiliated with high school at all, who also 93 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: developed these ticks. And Bartholomy thinks that it has to 94 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: do with the social media influence. Basically, she heard about 95 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: this incident going on among these high schoolers via Facebook, 96 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden she starts experiencing debilitating 97 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: ticks as well, to the point that she had to 98 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: take medical leave from work, right, exactly. Well, so let's 99 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: let's give just a brief rundown of some other episodes 100 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: of mass hysteria that have popped up in the news. 101 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: In there was an outbreak of illness at a Tennessee school. 102 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: More than one seventies students, teachers, and others sought emergency treatment. 103 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: But after investigating, you know, investigators found no virus, no toxins, 104 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: no actual illnesses, and they dubbed it mass hysteria. Similarly, 105 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand two, there were ten teenage girls at 106 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: a small rural North Carolina high school that had epileptic 107 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: like seizures and fainting after the buildings were in expected. 108 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: Nothing was found to explain the outbreak. But then if 109 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: you look at the mid two thousand's onward, you do 110 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: see a distinct uptick in these cases, which Robert Bartholomy 111 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: would probably correlate to the rise in social media. Perhaps. 112 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: For instance, in two thousand and six alone, there was 113 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: a case in Portugal where, um, there were more than 114 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: three hundred students at fourteen different schools that reported that 115 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: seems kind of odd. They reported feeling symptoms similar to 116 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: those experienced by characters on a popular youth soap opera, 117 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: and eventually it forced some of those schools to temporarily 118 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: closed to try to take care of this problem. And 119 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm now thinking of what would have happened if if 120 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: we had started just acting like characters on Dawson's Creek 121 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: or something. Oh lord, I don't know, we just would 122 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: have been really angsty. Yeah, well, I was already there. 123 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: I was about to say, yeah, my diary was full. Um. Also, 124 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, at this really strict boarding 125 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: school in Mexico, six grid out of thirty six hundred 126 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: girls ages twelve to seventeen showed strange symptoms such as 127 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: trouble walking, fever, and nausea. And the following year, at 128 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: least eight girls at a Roanoke, Virginia high school developed 129 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: strange twitching symptoms and the school district ended up spending 130 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars to investigate, but again no 131 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: environmental cause. Tanzania is another place where you hear about 132 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: these uh mass hysteria epidemics breaking out a lot. In 133 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, for instance, again you have a 134 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: group of twenty girls at a school who all of 135 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: a sudden lose consciousness while others are sobbing, yelling and 136 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: running around the school. And I think it's also in 137 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: Tanzania where there have been incidences of laughing epidemics. And 138 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: there's a YouTube video about this. And even though it's 139 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: called an epidemic, it's kind of cute because a lot 140 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: of the footage is really just school children, like groups 141 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: of Tanzanian school children laughing hysterically. You're like, oh, what's 142 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: so bad about that? Yeah, our office could use a 143 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: little laughing epidemic, and except it doesn't stop. Yeah, it's true. Uh. Well, 144 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: in January, one of the more recent episodes, there were 145 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: about two dozen teenagers at a school in Danvers, Massachusetts 146 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: who began having mysterious hiccups and vocal ticks. What's interesting 147 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: about Danvers. Danvers used to be Salem scene of the 148 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: Salem witch trials, which were also considered to be a 149 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: form of moral mass hysteria or a moral panic. Yeah, 150 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: and today some researchers think that the so called demonic 151 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: signs that the girls involved with the Salem witchcraft trials 152 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: were exhibiting were maybe the same kinds of psychological issues 153 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: that these girls at Essex, agricultural and Technical School in 154 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Danvers today also exhibiting interesting, very interesting. So what is 155 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: the it's what is going on? How does this work? Well, 156 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: a couple different things can happen, and one of those 157 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: is that there can be an actual physical detectable trigger 158 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: like a bad smell or a rumor of exposure to 159 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: a poison. And so basically, if one person gets sick, 160 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: others in the group also start feeling sick. And sure, 161 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: the first person to get sick might have actually had 162 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: a real illness, they could have had food poisoning. Maybe 163 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: they just felt nauseated. But then this power of suggestibility 164 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: comes into play where other people are like, oh, well, 165 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: I might I feel kind of light headed and nauseated too. 166 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. Um. And so yeah, 167 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: as you get things like bad smells convincing people that 168 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: they actually are possibly being poisoned. Um. It could also 169 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: start with conversion disorder. And so conversion disorder and mass 170 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: hysteria are not exactly synonymous, but you have conversion disorder 171 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: when psychological stress stressors like trauma or anxiety manifest physically. 172 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: And when this happens, it's basically a mental health condition 173 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: in which a person can experience things like blindness, paralysis, 174 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: or other neurologic symptoms that cannot easily be explained away 175 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: by a simple, simple medical test. It's not like you 176 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: can go get a blood test and they're like, oh, well, 177 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: you're experiencing conversion order disorder. Usually a whole slew of 178 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: things have to be ruled out before they hit on 179 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: conversion disorder, and the symptoms usually begin suddenly after a 180 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: stressful experience, and people who are at risk for conversion 181 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: disorders UH usually have a mental illness or some other 182 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: mental health problem or dissociative disorder in which they are 183 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: not able to manage their feelings or their emotions very well. 184 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: And when a conversion disorder becomes contagious, that's when you 185 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: have the development of what we think of as the 186 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: mass psychogenic illness or the mass hysteria. And one term 187 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: that pops up a lot too is something called the 188 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: no cebo effect. So essentially that's the opposite of the 189 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: placebo effect, Like if you take a sugar pill thinking 190 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: that it will have positive effects on you, and so 191 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: you all of a sudden start to feel better. The 192 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: no cebo effect is when, say, you smell something strange, 193 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: and you don't know what it is, but you just 194 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: assume it's terrible, and all of a sudden, you start 195 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: exhibiting all of these horrible symptoms when come to find 196 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: out it was maybe just a pickle gone bad in 197 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: the fridge or something. Now, I mean, when I started 198 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: thinking about it, I mean this Obviously, I've never been 199 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: part of mass hysteria myself, Kristen, but I feel like 200 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: this has happened to me where someone else is like, oh, 201 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: something smells bad. I don't feel good, and I'm like, 202 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: oh maybe, Oh no, I'm starting to feel dizzy. The 203 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: power of suggestibility, man, it is strong. Oh yeah. I 204 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: mean this is one thing too that that started happening 205 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: a lot more after the two thousand and eleven Twin 206 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: Towers attack and the rise of the anthrax threats. All 207 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have a lot of people calling 208 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: and complaining of symptoms that are similar to anthrax poisoning, 209 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: claiming that they had received mail with anthrax in it. 210 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: And I mean, essentially we're kind of making up a 211 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff in our mind due to fear 212 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: and panic. Almost anytime you have an outbreak of mass hysteria, 213 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: there's some kind of real world trigger, whether it's economic 214 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: upheaval or rigid gender roles to an extreme extent, or 215 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: just generally stressful factors like exam time, for instance, Is 216 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot is a big time when this breaks out 217 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: in schools. Yeah, I mean, I would say, as the 218 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: non scientist that I am. I mean, I would say 219 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: that stress seems to play a huge role in this. 220 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I I think it's not uncommon to, 221 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: even if it's just on an individual level, feel some 222 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: sort of psycho somatic illness when you are feel stressed, 223 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: whether it is exams or in the case of Tanzania, 224 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: whether it's some like huge cultural rift going on. And 225 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen did mention that there are a lot 226 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: of reports of mass hysteria of various forms breaking out 227 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: in Tanzania, and one of the first was in nineteen 228 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: sixty two. It was a laughing epidemic and it lasted 229 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: nearly eighteen months, and locals blamed angry ancestors. But you 230 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: have to look at the context. During the nineteen sixties, 231 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: there were a lot of Western missionary schools that were opening, 232 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: and they were notorious for trying to do away with 233 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: these students cultural heritage focusing on Western and Christian religious 234 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: and cultural practices. And so these students, these young girls 235 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: are experiencing this inner struggle because their families believe one thing, 236 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: and they always have believed one thing. But then you 237 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: have these people coming in teaching them different religions, different practices, 238 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: and so there is this conflict that happens. And so 239 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: it's around this time that the first of several laughing 240 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: epidemics start taking place in Tanzania. Yeah, and when you 241 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: look into different anthropological explanations for mass hysteria, gender does 242 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: come up a lot, especially in more developing nations, because 243 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: they link the mass hysteria to patriarchal societies. For instance, 244 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: um this idea that women are inherently suggestible, and in 245 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: cases where something like the Salem witch trials where their 246 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: assumptions of demonic possession and witchcraft, which those kinds of 247 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: scenarios are still happening around the world today, a lot 248 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: of times women in those societies are considered more susceptible 249 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: to possession because of their social submissiveness. So it's like they're, um, 250 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, they're almost literally more more open to it. 251 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: They aren't going to be as resistant to so called 252 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: demonic possessions. So you see them exhibiting these signs more often, 253 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: but in more of Western context, say in the case 254 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: of the Danverse High School, where it's going to get 255 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: a lot of media attention. One thing that the American 256 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: Family Physician points out in terms of the contagious factor 257 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: of mass hysteria is how when it happens, it can 258 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: become almost exponentially contagious because all of a sudden, you 259 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: have reporters everywhere. You have now again, the social media 260 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: effect of people tweeting about it is probably flooding your Facebook. 261 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: You're getting emails about it. It's it's almost like you 262 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: become surrounded by this hysteria, right, And it's it's not 263 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: exactly imagined. While it might not be an actual disease 264 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: and actual sickness, it's not just in your brain. And 265 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: yet it is in your brain. Um, these people who 266 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: are experiencing mass hysteria or mass psychogenic illness, they do 267 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: have headaches, or they do actually feel dizzy or nauseated. 268 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: It's just that it's not caused by germs or poison 269 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: or anything like that. In the New York Times, bawelve 270 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: looking at this topic talked about how the illness might 271 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: have something to do with the amygdala, which is where 272 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of your startle responses start in your brain. Yeah, 273 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: the amygdala has actually been shown to be overactive in 274 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: patients with conversion disorder. And The New York Times interviewed 275 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: Mark Hallett, who we started earlier. He's the senior investigator 276 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: at the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke and 277 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: he says that quote, ordinarily the amygdala might create psychological distress, 278 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: but instead, in these cases, it would create an involuntary movement, 279 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: talking about those ticks that you see sometimes exhibited in 280 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: the high school girls affected by this. But one comparison 281 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: to that comes up a lot in explanations of mass 282 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: hysteria is it's just like a really exaggerated form of 283 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: stage fright, right where all of a sudden, and I've 284 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: experienced this to a horrible extent, where yes, your stomach 285 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: is in not all of a sudden, you have to 286 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom like twenty five times for no 287 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: good reason. Your palms are sweating. I mean, there's a 288 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: physical discomfort that comes with that kind of psychological anxiety. Sure. Well, 289 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: what's also interesting to look at, and researchers have pointed 290 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: this out, is that the things that we are afraid 291 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: of or the things that we're concerned about when we 292 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: experience mass hysteria have changed with society. This is coming 293 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: from a two thousand to British Journal of Psychiatry review 294 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: of literature on mass hysteria, and they found that this 295 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: mass sociogenic illness mirrors prominent social concerns. So, before nine 296 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: we have reports that are dominated by episodes of motor symptoms, 297 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: typically dissociation psychomotor agitation in an environment of pre existing tension. 298 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: But twentieth century reports feature anxiety symptoms triggered by sudden 299 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: exposure to an anxiety generating age like a like a 300 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: bad smell, or food poisoning rumors because we're moving into 301 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the era of the bomb things like that. Yeah, and 302 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: then from the early eighties to present day we see 303 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: that increasing presence of chemical and biological terrorism themes, people 304 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: being scared that they are being poisoned by some kind 305 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: of terroristic agent. And yeah, as I brought up September 306 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: eleventh a few minutes ago, that has definitely triggered a 307 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: peak in these kinds of reports. Right, But it's I mean, 308 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see. And when you look at the 309 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: history of mass hysteria, you know, when you talk about 310 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: women being possessed or nuns being possessed by evil things, 311 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: they end up being possessed by things that people are 312 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: afraid of at the time, like cats. Like cats. Okay, 313 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and talk about the meowing nuns because 314 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: this was one of my favorite aspects of this research 315 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: and this might ring a bell to uh, some listeners 316 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: who have read about this. There were cases in the 317 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Middle Ages of nunneries having issues with all of the 318 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: nuns breaking out into meowing at certain hours of the day. Yes. Uh, 319 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: it actually got to a point in France that soldiers 320 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: were called to tamp down these meowing nuns. But you know, 321 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: cats were believed to be in league with Satan, and 322 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: so this that was a fear cats and Satan and 323 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: nuns and religion. You've got it all. Yeah, and uh, 324 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: this isn't just an isolated incident either. This is sited 325 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: in that British journalist Psychiatry Review. There were more than 326 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: one hundred books alone on these outbreaks in France, just 327 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: in France between sixteen thirty two and sixteen thirty four. 328 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: I mean talk about a mass hysteria, right, and I 329 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: mean speaking of nuns in the fifteenth century in Germany, 330 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: you have biting nuns and these this uh, this issue 331 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: of nuns who were biting each other and other people. 332 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: It's spread as far as Rome. This is before social 333 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: media people. This is in the fifteenth century. Yeah, and 334 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't just me owing cats. You would also have 335 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: nuns who would bark like dogs, bleat like sheep. Apparently 336 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: there's a real old McDonald theme going on with these possessions. 337 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: But they would also in more extreme cases like rip 338 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: off their veils and gesticulate sex acts very un nunly 339 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: to make up a word kinds of things. Well, I 340 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: mean you have to think about also the context of 341 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: this context is very important and a lot of the 342 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: women who ended up as nuns, perhaps we're not sent 343 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 1: there willingly, a lot of these women were kind of 344 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: forced into it. And so, you know, thinking back to 345 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: how kind of cooky and wonky I felt during the 346 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: snow apocalypse here in Atlanta, being cooped up in my house, 347 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, I can just imagine how it would feel 348 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: to be cooped up in a nunnery when you didn't 349 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: want to be a nun in the first place. Yeah, 350 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: that was like forty eight hours in your house with 351 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: with mass media at your I was barking within four hours. 352 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: But religion does have a pretty strong tie to these 353 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: hysterias as well, because you also see it happening among 354 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: groups of Quakers in Britain at certain times, and also 355 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: Quakers in America. Methodists in Britain had their own streaks 356 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: of mass hysteria. There was a czar cult in Ethiopia. 357 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: This this isn't just isolated to one region of the 358 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: world or one specific religion, especially during this early history 359 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: of mass hysteria. It is kind of breaking out all 360 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: over the place. And then again in we have the 361 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: Salem witch trials, right, and so this quote unquote, which 362 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: mania begins in December when eight girls living around Salem 363 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: started showing really strange behavior, including disordered speech, could, vulsive movements, 364 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: and bizarre contexts, certainly sounds like the stuff that we 365 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: see we've seen a couple of years ago throughout New York, Danvers, etcetera. 366 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: And explanations for their fits ranged from fakery to hysteria 367 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: to poisoning of the food supply. Soon after this, hundreds 368 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: of residents get accused of witchcraft and the trials start. 369 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: And this madness ended in May of s when the 370 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: governor ordered all suspects released. But we would be remiss 371 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: to skip over a huge portion of hysteria history. Do 372 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: you like how I just hysteria or just history? With 373 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: with two wise perfect dancing mania? Oh, the dancing mania, 374 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: I see, you know, a little part of me wishes. 375 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: I don't wish I had been alive in the fourteenth century, 376 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: But it would be cool to zoom back there for 377 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: a second, just to take part in one of these 378 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: dancing manias. Because long before we have the meowing nuns 379 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: in Salem, which trials way way back in thirteen seventy four, 380 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: we have the first reports of dancing mania. It sounds 381 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: like a wonderful activity, except that a lot of people died. Yeah, 382 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: these should not be confused with like dance marathons of 383 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties. Now that this was this was 384 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: a whole different thing happening in Europe that was thought 385 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: to be caused yet again by demonic possession. But I mean, 386 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: of course I thought it was demons because they didn't 387 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: really have much of much medical know how at the time, right, 388 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: And it's worth pointing out that the chronicles of thirteen 389 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: seventy four talk about all of these people dancing, but 390 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: it was men and women. This was not this was 391 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: not just women. Um you know, people were running around screaming, 392 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: calling on the mercy of God and the saints. But 393 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: there is a stress link. The thirteen seventy four dancing 394 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: mania outbreak occurred just after a devastating flood. But the 395 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: fascinating thing about this is that when a dancing mania 396 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: would stop in one part of the country, it would 397 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: spring up in another. It started to leap around different 398 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: parts of Europe. But again bringing up that stress factor. 399 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: Dancers were primarily found in the poorest classes of society, 400 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: and authorities were terrified seeing all these poor people out dancing, 401 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: I mean leaving their jobs. And also women dancing was 402 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: a giant panic for the powers to be at the 403 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: time too, because hey, who's gonna do the domestic duties 404 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: of the housewives are out dancing? Answer nobody, or maybe 405 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: babies or something like that. But they were they wanted 406 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: to stop these dance manias because they were scared that 407 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: it would spread to nobility and then there would be 408 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: just anarchy, I suppose. Yeah. Well, flash forward to the 409 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: fifteenth century and this stuff is still happening, and the 410 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: mania became known as St. Vitus's Dance, based on the 411 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: legend that St. Venus had been formally entrusted by God 412 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: to protect his followers from being affected. And they didn't 413 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: start declining until the sixteenth century. But you have the 414 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: Dancing Plague of fifteen eighteen, during which a woman a 415 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: woman began to dance fervently in the street in Strasbourg, 416 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: and within a week, thirty four others had joined her. 417 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: Within a month, the crowd grew to about four hundred. 418 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: So it's like the earliest and slowest flash mob, but 419 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: a dangerous slash mob at that, because a lot of 420 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: the people who participated in this eventually died from heart attack, 421 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: stroke or sheer exhaustion. Right again, we have to look 422 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: at the stress link here. The inhabitants of Strasbourg were 423 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: reeling from severe famine, uh and their morale had already 424 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: been chattered by bouts of syphilis, smallpox and the plague, 425 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: so they were dealing with quite a bit of scary 426 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: health issues. It was pretty strassful in strasbourg Um in Italy. 427 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: The to my son familiar to some people who have 428 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: heard of the term tarrantis um. And uh, this is 429 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: the thought that these dance manias were caused by the 430 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: venom from some kind of spider, particularly the tarantula, hence 431 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: tarrantis um. But there has been no scientific proof that 432 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: spider bites will cause you to form a very slow 433 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 1: moving and dangerous flash mob. Yeah. I was bitten by 434 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: a spider like two years ago. I had a really 435 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: bad spider bite and I still can't dance, so it 436 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: clearly did not instill me with any dancing superpowers like 437 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: anti tarrantis um. Yeah, I'm just really like slow and uncoordinated. 438 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: Oh well, but you know, the dancing mania became a 439 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: thing again in eighteen sixty three and matag Gascar there 440 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: was collective dancing in hysteria after the reign of a 441 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: particular queen on rumors of her comeback. She was so 442 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: awful that an entire group of people just started freaking 443 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: out and experiencing mass hysteria. Then hop skip over to 444 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: Japan in eighteen sixty seven, you have this period of 445 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: chaotic singing and dancing among the Japanese people in response 446 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: to a lot of uprisings and economic crises that were 447 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: happening at the time. And I think, what's interesting as 448 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you move into in the West, as you move into 449 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution, and you have all of these people 450 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: sitting in factories all day, factories and mills, you start 451 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: to get these outbreaks of mass hysteria because I mean, 452 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: these people are cooped up in horrible conditions for a 453 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: ridiculous number of hours each day, and so you start 454 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: to get reports of things happening in mills and factories. 455 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: But also at this time, you you're getting the establishment 456 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: of like general hospitals and other institutions in Europe to 457 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: basically take care of I don't know, the undesirable element. 458 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden you have people being 459 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: institutionalized for their strange behavior, and then it just breaks 460 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: out all over again. It becomes the cycle. Yeah. And 461 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: speaking of the Industrial Revolution, it's notable that, as reported 462 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: in the book Mass Psychogenic Illness, a Social Psychological Analysis 463 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: A real nice bedtime read f y I uh, they 464 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: talked about how the very first modern reported outbreak at 465 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: a cotton mill happens in seven which took place right 466 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: after the invention of the power loom, which revolutionized the 467 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: textile industry. It really increased the speed of production. And yeah, 468 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: even more you have with all these machines being developed, 469 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: that factory work of just menial, repetitive labor happening in 470 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: people in confined areas. I mean, it's prime territory for 471 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: some kind of macessary to break out. Yeah, but also 472 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: so many social changes, women leaving the homes and going 473 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: to work, you know, being in mills and stuff. You know, 474 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: it's just as the world change is around you. That 475 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: can that can induce a lot of stress. Well, speaking 476 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: of women, Caroline, we have to dig into this gender 477 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: link that always comes up with mass hysteria because there 478 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: is a lot to talk about there because I'm not 479 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm not entirely buying the fact that this disproportionately affects women, 480 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: even though I know I should. So let's get into 481 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: that when we come right back from a quick break 482 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: and now back to the show. So what about the 483 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: women then, because, like we said at the top of 484 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: the podcast, a lot of people like Robert Bartholome, you 485 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: who's an expert in this, always brings up gender, and 486 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, in the dance manias that was a co 487 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: ed phenomenon, but today it's often framed as something that 488 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: happens almost exclusively to high school girls. And even we 489 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: have not pointed out the fact that as some listeners, 490 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: some gold Star Sminty listeners might recall that the derivation 491 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 1: of hysteria is directly related to women, right as it 492 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: refers to our crazy wandering wombs and they just wander 493 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: all over the place. Yeah, because if you don't put 494 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: a baby in it, right, then it's going to leave 495 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: you and make you do crazy things like I don't know, 496 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: I want to have sex or dance in the streets. Apparently. Well, 497 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: what you need is, you know how when you buy 498 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: a balloon at the grocery store, they give you those 499 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: little weights to tie the You need one of those 500 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: for your uterus womb weights. Perfect, we're gonna we're gonna 501 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: make a million dollars, that's right. Well, so anyway, another 502 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: hysteria expert, John Waller, who wrote A Time to Dance, 503 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: A Time to Die, The Extraordinary Story of the Dancing 504 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: Plague of fifteen eighteen, wrote that women and girls are 505 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: nearly always overrepresented among these outbreaks, and it is that 506 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: gender a balance that's often to give away that the 507 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: epidemic is not organic, that it's not actual food poisoning, 508 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: that it's not actual you know, chemical spills or whatever. 509 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: And you know, we've been talking about theories, and Waller 510 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: points out that in more missaw genistic times this was 511 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: put down to us having more fragile nerves or you know, 512 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: our wounds floating all over the place. Um, and while 513 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: there may be some type of biological component or something 514 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: in our brains doing something weird. Some people have put 515 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: forward the theory that women are more likely to succumb 516 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: because of the frustrations of living in patriarchal cultures, living 517 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: in families and societies dominated by men, and going off 518 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: of that theory, some even argue that hysteria offers distressed 519 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: women a legitimate reason to quote unquote check out for 520 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: a while, just dance their troubles away. Yeah, although if 521 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: you watch interviews, for instance, with those girls more recently 522 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: affected by this, they are not checked out. It seems 523 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: incredibly painful and disrupted to the point they had to 524 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: leave school for a while. Right, But you know, there 525 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: was a huge that was that at Lant piece, and 526 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: there was a huge New York Times piece about these 527 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: young women who were going through that, and they point 528 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: out that almost to the to a woman, these young 529 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: girls had experienced something awful in their lives when it 530 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: came to their parental situation. A lot of them had 531 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: missing her absent fathers. Um. You know, there was one 532 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: girl who her father was completely out of her life 533 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: until she basically was on the news with this condition 534 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: and then he came back. Um. And in the New 535 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: York Times piece, you could tell that the writer uh 536 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: was was trying to hint at that and her interviews 537 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: with these young women, and that they were like no, no, 538 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: no, no no no, because more than anything, these young women 539 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: or young people in general who were experiencing this want 540 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: to think that they're not crazy. They want to think 541 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: that there is a better, more logical reason for what 542 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: they were going through, the scary, scary thing that they're 543 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: going through, other than just suggestibility, right, I mean. Uh. 544 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: The issue of psychological trauma too, that might have been 545 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: repressed over the years also came up in the case 546 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: of the older woman highlighted in the Atlantic piece who 547 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: was not a high school or the one we talked 548 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: about who you know might have been exposed via Facebook. Um. 549 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: She had been raped UM as a girl and never 550 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: talked about it at all, and then all of a sudden, 551 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: we have this psychogenic illness come up. And that came 552 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: out in her therapy for this case, and and she 553 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: feels like this was it kind of unleashed all of 554 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: that repression, right. And one of the physicians interviewed in 555 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: The New York Times talked about how her approach to 556 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: these girls was so delicate because you had you couldn't 557 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: just write off their health scares, their frustrations. So she 558 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: did test for things like the thyroid, all sorts of 559 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: different possible health conditions. And then she said, you know what, 560 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: but just just to be on the safe side, you 561 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: know you're going this is such a stressful thing that 562 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: you're going through. Why don't we go ahead and set 563 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: you over the counselor a therapy and you can just 564 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: include you know, mental health as part of your regiment. 565 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: And she explained that the girls who were talking to 566 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: someone seeking actual mental health counseling, we're seeing improvements. So 567 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: it sounds like over time these symptoms just kind of 568 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: fade away. They do tend to like. That was one 569 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: of the things that was in those two long form 570 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: articles about this this issue is that eventually they do 571 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: kind of just disappear there there. They tend to be 572 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of self propagating, you know, with social media, with 573 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: things like social media, and with that that hyper focus 574 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: on something's wrong with me. Oh God, something's going awful 575 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: with my health or my brain or something. And it 576 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: seems like that focus on mental health was definitely helping. Yeah. 577 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: One thing though that left me wanting with all of 578 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: these all of this reading on massess area is that 579 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: there was still no real are scientific evidence suggesting that 580 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: this is something that affects women more, you know what 581 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: I mean, because Bartholomew has said that, well, it might 582 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: be an issue of observer bias and methodological fault flaws. 583 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: Maybe we just hear more about this happening two girls. Um, 584 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: it could be more likely that women emote outwardly whereas 585 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: men tend to emote inwardly. Um. And also in that 586 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: British Journal of Psychiatry Literature review, it mentions that it's 587 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: often linked to gender, but then there's no follow up. 588 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't offer any conclusive proof. I mean, there There 589 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: is that theory though about mirror neurons um which essentially 590 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: is that mirror neurons are like you and I are 591 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: probably are mirror neurons are probably firing a lot right 592 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: now because we're sitting across from each other, we're having 593 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: this conversation and we are now gesturing, which if people 594 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: could see us heard out gesturing in tandem to each other. 595 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: And and those are the neurons in our brain, and 596 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: very elementary sort of way, it's what helps us interact 597 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: with people and sort of pick up on tone, and 598 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 1: a lot of times they tend to be more active 599 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: in female brains. And so there's one theory that was 600 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: published in the journal aptly called Medical Hypotheses that perhaps 601 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: the uh, these kinds of hysterias affect women more be 602 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: due to higher activity of our motor cortex and mirror neurons, 603 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: or that whole stereotype about women and empathy. Yes, exactly exactly, 604 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: and that would offer some kind of neurological explanation. But 605 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: again that's still just a hypothesis, right because it's not 606 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: like this doesn't happen two men. It does happen to men. 607 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: And I was wondering as I was going through all 608 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: this stuff, I was wondering, Okay, so I I get it, Okay, 609 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: women are overrepresented and all this stuff that's been proven whatever, 610 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: But does it ever happen just to men? And oh 611 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: boy does it? And it's called cora. Uh. It's a 612 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: phenomenon experienced by men, typically in Asia. Uh. Thousands of 613 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: men in Southeast Asia and China in times of economic uncertainty, 614 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: have been known to believe that their penises are shrinking 615 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: into their bodies and that death will ensue if they 616 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: become fully retracted. Yeah, and um, the last time coro 617 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: seemed to flare up in China was in so it's 618 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: been a little while, but there was this widespread fear 619 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: that a fox spirit that roams the land was in 620 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: search of male victims. And there's a similar kind of 621 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: penis shrinking panic that has also broken out among men 622 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: in Sub Saharan Africa. So similar to these you know, 623 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: dance manias that spread around different cultures, this is also 624 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: seems to be some kind of cross cultural phenomenon. And 625 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: if you want to a Western context for this, there 626 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: was a report in nine teen eight of this happening 627 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: among just male military recruits at a California Army barrack 628 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: um after there was some people were experiencing breathing problems 629 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: from some strange odor that was spreading, and so panic 630 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: and sues. All these guys are laid out with all 631 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: sorts of horrifying symptoms of mass hysteria like event happening. 632 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 1: And it turns out that the strange odor was simply 633 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: a brush fire, but it was the same kind of 634 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: power of suggestion, no cebo effect susceptibility. Guys are vulnerable 635 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: to it too, clearly because if you already have a 636 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: pre existing fear or concern, if it gets into your 637 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: head that's something awful and poisonous or you know, something 638 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: that's risking your health is happening, it's easy to believe 639 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: like oh oh no, oh yeah, do you ever does 640 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: this ever happen to you? Where if you smell gas 641 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: in your house is seven? To me? A couple of 642 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: times I immediately start like mentally symptom checking of like 643 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: am I breathing? Okay? Am I sleepy? Am I I 644 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: need to get out right? Yeah? Absolutely well. When I 645 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: worked at a newspaper um the printing the giant printing 646 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: press was in the same building, and so knowing that 647 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: that his tanny particles of ink were traveling through the 648 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: air towards me in the news room, I mean, I 649 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, I would start to feel really congested, although 650 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: that probably I probably really was congested because ink was 651 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: in my nose? Were you? Were you that person wearing 652 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: the face mask at all times? I still do all 653 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: the time. I actually try to wear like a scuba 654 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: mask at all time. I finally banned the face mask 655 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: for the podcast studio because it was just that that 656 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: dude creepy. That's too bad. Um. But one thing, you know, 657 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: we haven't um mentioned like the types of girls that 658 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: this tends to happen to when it does affect solely 659 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: girls at high schools. One uh, one piece of information 660 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: when tidbit that was pointed out in the New York 661 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: Times is that cheerleaders frequently come up in these case 662 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: histories of mass psychogenic illness at schools, partly because these outbreaks, 663 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,879 Speaker 1: these particular types of outbreaks tend to start with someone 664 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: of high social status. And so in reading that New 665 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: York Times article, you know they're the writer is interviewing 666 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: these two girls at the same time. In one of 667 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: the girl's rooms and talking about how she even noticed 668 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: that they as they were talking, they were mirroring each 669 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: other's behavior, and one set our stomach hurt, and then 670 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: ten minutes later the other set or stomach hurt. And 671 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: so there's this whole idea of like the issue of popularity, 672 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: of admiring someone above you on the social you know, 673 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: hierarchy or whatever, and then kind of falling prey to 674 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: what they say they're experiencing. Absolutely. And then there, of course, 675 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: are all these questions of, well, are these young women 676 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: simply faking it so that they can also get on 677 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: the Today Show or whatever media outlet it might be. 678 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: And so then with all these reports of young women 679 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: being affected and that it seems to just be like 680 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: a popularity thing and all these girls maybe faking it 681 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,959 Speaker 1: or maybe they're not, then you have some theories about 682 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: out girls adolescence in particular being pathologized. Yeah. So, Caitlin Flanagan, 683 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: as she often does, who is more of a conservative 684 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: commentator about especially girls and also women, She wrote an 685 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: op at piece in The New York Times in response 686 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: to all of these reports of hysteria breaking out and 687 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: essentially said in a rather flip kind of way. Hey, everybody, look, 688 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: this is simply good old fashioned Freudian hysteria breaking out 689 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: because in a nutshell, teenage female adolescence is a time 690 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: of emotional upheaval and panic, and girls tend to, like 691 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: I said earlier, emote outward, and so stop trying to 692 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 1: explain it away, and can we just say that this 693 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: is this is just girls being girls? Yeah, exactly. She 694 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: almost seemed frustrated that people were trying to come up 695 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: with reasons for it or even show that it can 696 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: happen to boys and men too, you know. She was like, oh, sorry, guys, 697 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: I know it's not empowering for you, but you just 698 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: have to deal with it. Yeah. And her her solution 699 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: for these kinds of instances was that girls simply need 700 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: more protection, right, And she wrote a book along those 701 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: lines too, that we need to keep our girls safe 702 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: and during this turbulent time of adolescence, we need to, 703 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: you know, make sure they have quiet, safe spaces at 704 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: the home in which to be basically crazy. Banshees is 705 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: the word she is. Yeah, And here's the thing, I 706 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 1: don't doubt the issue of susceptibility. And I mean there 707 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: was there was one article ever get which one it was, 708 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: but talked about how some neurologists were watching one of 709 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,240 Speaker 1: these reports from the bbc UH and it was showing 710 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: a teenage girl who was affected, who had a physical 711 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: tick that magically seemed to stop when she started to 712 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,439 Speaker 1: put on eyeliner and it just switched to the other hand, 713 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: and the doctor's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That doesn't that 714 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: does not happen, That would not happen normally in your brain. 715 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: This really can't be what's going on. Or in the 716 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: case of one girl had a tick, if a doctor 717 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: squeezed the tremoring hand, the tremor would then suddenly moved 718 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: to the other side of her body, and they're like, 719 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: that's really not the way these kinds of things usually work. 720 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: So sure there is you can't deny the power of 721 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: suggestion with this, but uh, I, personally, to editorialize myself, 722 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: did not really appreciate Flannagan's assumptions about how this is 723 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: just every girl's you know, basically, that every young girl 724 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: is crazy and that yeah, it's like, yeah, she's I 725 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: think she's falling back on some very dated stereotypes about 726 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, women needing to be quiet and be in 727 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: the home and recover from all of the stress that 728 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: is life. Yeah, and and of course there are plenty 729 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: of rebuttals, such as Isha Panda over a feminist NG 730 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: who was like whoa woa woa quick pathologizing young girls. 731 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: You know, stop painting us as fragile things that need 732 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: to just be hidden away during our teen years, because 733 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't we learn anything from the me owing nuns? If 734 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: you send if you send girls away to a convent, 735 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: you might have some problems there too. Nothing I'm joking completely, 736 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm nothing against nuns at all, but you know what 737 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: I mean, like the uh trying to repress. A lot 738 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: of this tends to result out of repression and is 739 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: often relieved by expression. But I will be curious to 740 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: see if Bartholemy's prediction of these being these incidents as 741 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: being on the rise via social media really plays out, 742 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,320 Speaker 1: because I mean, he says that there's been a massive 743 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: up surge, but we still hear about them happening kind 744 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,320 Speaker 1: of few and far between. Um. But I'm wondering in 745 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: the next like twenty years, are we going to have 746 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,760 Speaker 1: more cases of this breaking out or are we simply 747 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: going to grow more skeptical. I I don't know. That 748 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: was a good questions. Yeah, and those are questions for 749 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: our listeners. What what do you think about this? Have 750 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 1: you heard of these mass hysterias? Are you from Danvers? 751 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: Are you has this ever happened to you? Um, let 752 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: us know your thoughts about this. Mom Stuff at discovery 753 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send us an email. 754 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 755 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: send us a message over on Facebook. And this was 756 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,239 Speaker 1: a little bit of a different kind of topic for 757 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: us to cover, but such a rich history to dig into. 758 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,439 Speaker 1: And yeah, dancing mania, Caroline, if you could go back 759 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: in time to a fourteenth century dancing mania, would you 760 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: do it? I have no rhythm and I love sitting, 761 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: so I might dance for a little while, uh, in 762 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: a herky jerky fashion, and then you know, I don't know, 763 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 1: go eat some some gruel. That sounds awful. Yeah, well, 764 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: so to the fourteenth century. Well send us your thoughts, 765 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: moms A. Discovery dot com is our email address, and 766 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: we have a couple of letters to share with you 767 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: right now. We've got a couple of letters here about 768 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: our episode Fictional Attraction, all about shipping, and one true 769 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 1: pairing and paras social relationships. And this one is coming 770 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,959 Speaker 1: from Eliza, who's in the subject line is my dear 771 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: friends from the Office. She writes, The American Office immediately 772 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: comes to mind when I think about strong fictional relationships 773 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,359 Speaker 1: in my life. I started watching the show in high 774 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: school in formed many of my closest friendships in college 775 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,720 Speaker 1: because of it. I even had an Office themed birthday 776 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: party the first two weeks away from home freshman year. 777 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: Side note, I dressed up like paying them. Like most fans, 778 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: I fell in love with Jim and Pan's relationship instantly 779 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: and often looked to their connection as a model for 780 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: what I wanted in a partner. But it wasn't just 781 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,319 Speaker 1: their love story that I fell for. It was the 782 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,439 Speaker 1: entire cast. I started to feel like they were another 783 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: group of friends that I could visit any time I 784 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: wanted on Netflix or Hulu. There were two occasions that 785 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 1: The Office broke my heart. The first was when Michael 786 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: Scott played by Steve Carrell left the show, and the 787 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: second was a series finale. I really don't mean to 788 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,359 Speaker 1: sound crazy, because I'm an emotionally sound person, but I 789 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: was pretty much a wreck when it ended. It marked 790 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: the end of a life chapter. I realized I grew 791 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,959 Speaker 1: into an adult over nine seasons. When it was over, 792 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,799 Speaker 1: I reflected on what the show had given me. After 793 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,959 Speaker 1: the serious finale aired, I wrote the cast a letter, 794 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: and I was never planning on sending it. It was 795 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,760 Speaker 1: really just for myself, but I deeply wish that somehow 796 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: I could tell Jim, Michael, Dwight, Pam and the rest 797 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: of my office friends a genuine thank you and goodbye. 798 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of sweet. Well, I have a 799 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 1: letter here from Elizabeth about one True Pairings as a 800 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: coping strategy. Uh. She says, a few months ago, I 801 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: would have been in your situation of not knowing the 802 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: terms O T P and shipping. I love the TV 803 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: show Sherlock, done by the BBC. The only problem with 804 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: Sherlock is that it's a two year gap between seasons, 805 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: and each season is only three episodes long. Therefore, fans 806 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: have to find a way to stay interested, yet saying 807 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: during this long hiatus. Fan fiction is a huge portion 808 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,880 Speaker 1: of this coping strategy. A lot of fan fic focuses 809 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: on a relationship between Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, usually 810 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,359 Speaker 1: shortened to John Lock. I read John Lock fiction quite 811 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: a bit, and it keeps me interested in the show 812 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: and the characters, while allowing me to explore situations they're 813 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: not in the actual show. I love it. It has 814 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 1: also had the benefit of making me calm down a 815 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,760 Speaker 1: little about sexual situations. I was sexually abused for several 816 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 1: years and still have panic attacks if such situations come 817 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: up again. Reading fan fic about sexual relationships that are 818 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: healthy has helped me heal a little bit, for which 819 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: I am extremely grateful, So thank you very much, Elizabeth. 820 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, speaking of Sherlock, I have a feeling a 821 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: lot of listeners have para social relationships with Benedict Cumberbatch. 822 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: Even though, oh my god, I'm gonna get so much 823 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 1: hate mail for this. I think he is so weird looking. 824 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: He looks like an order. Yeah. I never seen utters 825 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,240 Speaker 1: who look like Benedict Cumberbatch. It's like the best tumbler. 826 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 1: When I heard that he was going to be on 827 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: Sesame Street, I was like, that's appropriate. He looks like 828 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: a muppet. Well, I'm sure that has sparked plenty of 829 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 1: listener thoughts, So send us your letters. Mom stub Discovery 830 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,400 Speaker 1: dot com is our email address, or if you'd like 831 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 1: to connect to us elsewhere on social or find old podcast, 832 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,320 Speaker 1: blog posts and all of our videos, there's one place 833 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 1: to go. It's your one stop sminty shop. Stuff Mom 834 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com For more on this and 835 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, Is it how Stuff Works dot 836 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: com