WEBVTT - The Conde Nast Union Busting Purge 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:07.400 Al Zone Media. 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:09.039 Welcome, Zinking Happen Here a podcast telling you to rage 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.319 against the dying of the light. I am your host, 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:16.119 Bia long and many episodes ago, significantly more tearfully, I 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.640 talked about how, you know, watching the trans voices in 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.320 media get fired and disappear felt like watching the stars 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.520 disappear in the sky. And today I am here to say, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.320 do you not go gently into that good night? 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:28.200 Fuck him? 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.800 Rage against the dying of the lights, and with me 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.240 to rage against the dying of the light and talk 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.320 about some absolute bullshit. Is Alma a Vie who is 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.560 a former staffer at Bonappetite, and we will be getting 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.360 into why that's now technically former and the VP of 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.560 the New S Guild of New York. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:48.000 Alma, welcome to the show. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:49.680 Amy, lovely to be here. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:51.800 I wish it was under better circumstances. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.640 I feel like everyone I talked to I go, I 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:55.640 wish you were under me circumstances. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.920 But you know, yeah, circumstances across the border kind of 0:00:58.960 --> 0:00:59.760 trash right now. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.560 Yeah, they're they're really bad. The circumstances they do be 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:03.800 they do, they do be shit. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.720 So these specifically bad circumstances are one conte Nast has 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.200 just obliterated teen Vogue, which had been one of the 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.000 few actually very good progressive outlets, also one of the 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.640 few outlets that would publish trans people regularly, and it's 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.840 just gone now. And Alma and three of her coullies 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.920 were fired for very productive union activity, being like, hey, what. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:30.160 The fuck in we kinder terms of that. I can 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.240 say this because it's not my ass of the line, 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.520 but yeah, do you want to talk a bit about 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:36.000 what happened? 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:42.200 Yeah, totally. I mean to give the company it's caveat. Technically, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.920 teen Vogue still exists. It has just been moved under 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.680 the broader organization of Vogue. They've now said that it's 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:54.960 coverage areas will include professional development as well as well. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:56.600 There are a couple of other things that they highlighted, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.600 but certainly the things that they did not highlight include, say, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.960 you know, scathing coverage of the Trump administration, or coverage 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.960 of trans youth and trans healthcare bands for teenagers, coverage 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.720 of like young celebrities of color, and so on. But yeah, anyway, 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.120 I guess to just go back to the start of 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.720 the timeline. Last Monday, we at the News Guild and 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.760 you know, at the Conde Nast Union, which is the 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.920 union that represents basically every worker or every journalist and 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.520 video maker at Conde Nast except for those in the 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.640 New Yorker, they are in like a separate bargaining unit 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.320 that we see as like you know, linked sibling units 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.919 or at the linked sibling unions. We do most of 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.400 our organizing together, and our contracts are nearly identical. But 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.480 anyway we yeah, I know, right, union siblings. It's adorable. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:43.520 Yeah, we try to stay close. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.359 But anyway, we got word last Monday that about two 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.880 thirds of the staff of teen Vogue were being laid off, 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.440 including a friend of mine and I think former guests 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.480 on your show, actually Lex mcmahamon, who was the politics 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.160 editor at teen Vogue, as well as a few of 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.120 the culture editors based like if they were covering I 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.840 mean being a little glib here, but like if they 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.320 were covering say like trans writes, trans youth, like progressive 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.040 culture and nearly any way shape or form. Yep, they 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.440 were either laid off or the remaining workers were folded 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.560 into the larger organization of Vogue. And I think they're 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.280 still figuring out exactly where they fit into that organization 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.400 and what like youth coverage looks like going forward. So 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.519 that happened last Monday, which was obviously a massive loss. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.200 I sat in on a lot of the like the 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.639 wine Garten meetings, going over the exit packages for those employees, 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.560 a lot of like really sad and cheerful meetings that day. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:35.960 We should point out this is being recorded on Monday, 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.920 the tenth. Last Monday's is Monday, November third. Not sure 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.000 when this is going to come out, but yet just 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.600 to make the time link clear here, Yes, absolutely November third. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.960 Yeah, that was Monday, November third. Yeah, thank you for 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:49.720 the correction. And then two days later at the company, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.680 we got a notification that there was another round of layoffs, 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.680 this one hitting I believe folks on the video teams 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.320 and then people on the like copy in fact checking 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:00.680 section of the com company as well. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.480 This was super disruptive. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.240 Usually, you know, at a company like Conde Nast, well, 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.200 the union doesn't have like explicit protections for this, and 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.680 in fact, like the company has the right to perform 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.080 layoffs if they need to for business reasons. Usually when 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.800 a round of layoffs goes through, there's like a period 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.080 of peace that comes after that, you know, like there 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.640 will be you know, a reduction in force. We'll figure out, Okay, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.240 how are we going to keep doing our jobs now 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.360 that we have fewer staffers, and then if the company 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.400 needs to reduce the staff again, that will happen like 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.600 a few months, maybe a year in the future. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.760 Two rounds of layoffs in the same. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.880 Week had people really really scared and really stressed out, because, 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.040 I mean, for one, there's like just the sense of, like, 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.240 oh God, a lot of my coworkers are gone, how 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:45.839 am I going to be able to keep doing my job? 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.360 We lost at my magazine, bon Apetite. We lost our 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.160 social media director, the person who was basically running our 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.960 social accounts. We'd gotten notification from the company that editors 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.279 were going to be doing their own posting from then on, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.239 which is just not not how things I've ever worked before, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.120 not really a thing that they're like, you know, my 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.000 colleagues are brilliant, and many of them are brilliant like 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.479 users of social media, but like not really a part 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.920 of our jobs historically. So we're all pretty confused how 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.680 we were supposed to, you know, actually keep running our magazine. 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.320 Most of our magazines are already running on pretty reduced 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:19.520 staffs in the first place. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:20.080 Yeah. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:25.520 Yeah, So anyway between that and the kind of obvious 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.039 political connection that one could draw, or at least like that, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:29.640 a lot of our members were afraid of, you know, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.160 teen Vogue being this like pretty famously radical or at 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.839 the very least like pretty famously progressive publication doing some 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.440 like really really hard hitting journalism. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.279 Yeah, there's a really clear. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.599 Line you can draw between like all of the Colbert 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.520 and Jimmy Kibble, but also like the CBS stuff with 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.159 Barry Weiss, like this kind of broader right wing shift 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.880 in media. You can draw I think a direct line 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.360 between all of that and like the shuttering or near 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.000 shuttering of teen Vogue. So we did a thing that 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.159 we basically always do when we're facing an issue like this, 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.760 whether it's a big reduction in force or just some 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.000 decision from the upper levels of the management that have 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.440 all of the workers being like, wait, what the fuck 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.680 did you just do? We had a rally in the 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.279 cafeteria to go over some of the questions that we 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.559 all have for management. We created a list of questions 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.920 that we wanted to ask and then and I cannot 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.760 stress how like routine this is for us as a union. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.520 We went from the cafeteria, which is on the thirty 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.000 fifth floor of the World Trade Center, down to the 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.719 executive floor, which is directly below it on the thirty 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.360 fourth floor of the World Trade Center, and we walked 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.479 over to the executive offices and said, we have some 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.600 questions for Stan Duncan, who is the head of the 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.240 people team at CONDE, and asked basically one of the 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.600 people in charge of either making these decisions of you know, 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.120 staffing in reduction, and then of enforcing those decisions as well. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.480 We went down to speak with Stan Duncan ask him 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.640 some of our questions. Two other HR employees came out 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.560 in medicine the hallway. We said we'd like to speak 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.919 to Stan. We were happy to ask them our questions, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.280 but they said they wouldn't be particularly good at answering them, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.799 or they might not have good answers for us. But Stan, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:03.640 they said, was in a meeting at the time. It 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.840 just so happened that either Stan's meeting ended right then, 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.200 or maybe he heard people talking in the hallway and 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.240 decided to come check it out, or maybe there wasn't 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.520 a meeting, but For whatever reason, Stan happened to come 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.840 out into the hallway at that time, and so we 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.480 started trying to ask him our questions. Some of those 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:24.160 questions included, like, was the closing of teen Vogue inherently political? 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:25.840 But also how are we going to be able to 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:27.920 do our jobs going forward? How are we supposed to 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.360 keep running these magazines if you're going to keep cutting 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:32.960 our jobs? And then also how are we supposed to 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.840 keep doing our jobs if we are constantly living in 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:40.280 fear of losing them? You know, Stan does not answer 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.960 any of these questions. Of course, yeah, no, naturally, he 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.120 tells us we're not allowed to congregate in the hallway. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.760 This is not true, of course, we what well, yeah, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.800 we I mean, one, this is our workplace. We I 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:55.840 think are allowed to have conversations in the hallway of 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.560 our workplace too. I mean, if he was saying that 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.720 we weren't allowed to, say, take part in union activities 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.360 in the workplace, we have a right under Section seven 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.880 of the NLRA that says we can do that. We 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.640 also have like contract provisions that say the company will 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.880 not infringe upon our right to organize and demonstrate in 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.120 the workplace. So that just wasn't true, and in fact, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.480 the union before everything else happened, already filed a grievance 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.920 about denying our Section seven rights to organize in the workplace. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.960 God yeah, So anyway, stand tries to get us to 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.040 go back to our desks. He walks across the floor, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.760 tells us to follow him. We follow him and keep 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.600 asking questions. He says that we have to go back 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:35.920 and do our jobs. We say, we will happily do 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.320 our jobs if you could just answer our questions. He 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.200 tells us that we have to go back to our workplaces. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.160 We remind him this is our workplace, and anyway, we 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.439 end up asking him those questions. We follow him back 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.960 and forth along the hallway. He goes back into his office, 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.360 closes the door. We all go back to our desks 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.719 for the rest of the day. I finish up my 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.280 work and I go home, and then I get notification 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.839 from the News Guild at seven that the company has 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.720 no tofied them that they are terminating me and three 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:04.599 of my colleagues. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:05.560 Jesus Christ. 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.240 No severance, no ongoing insurance coverage. My insurance expires at 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:15.360 the end of the month, no notice, no investigation, effective immediately. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.120 So as of last Wednesday, I am no longer an 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.280 employee of Conde Nast. I'd been working there for five years. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.080 I helped start the Conde Nast union. In the time 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.000 since I joined there, I was one of the most 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.400 tenured members of my magazine. Actually, people don't generally stick 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.040 around there for a long time, but at twenty seven 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.920 years old, I was a long hauler MIA and Yeah. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:41.439 In the time since then, our union has filed a 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.000 second grievance. There was the first one over telling us 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.800 we couldn't congregate. There's now a second one over the 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.680 retaliatory firings of me and my three colleagues. The company 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.720 has since put five other people I believe on an 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.640 unpaid leave in an attempt to discipline more people who 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.320 took part in the demonstration. Kind Of hard to see 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.319 rhyme or reason in the people that they decided to discipline. 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.359 So I was speaking quite a bit during the demonstration, 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.000 as was one of the other people who was terminated. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.200 One person asked one question that was a Jake la 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.840 Hood at Wired. He asked a question towards the beginning, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.000 which was, what is your definition of congregate? When they 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.280 told us we can't congregate in the whole way, which 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.360 I think is a perfectly valid question. And then one 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.440 person who was terminated actually as far as I know, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.360 didn't speak at all during the demonstration. He was, however, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.599 the vice president of the New Yorker Union or the 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.280 vice chair of the New Yorker Union, and an organizer 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.840 that the company was like very well aware of. And 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.800 then as for the people who were placed on disciplinary leaves, 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.240 I mean, I believe some of them actually spoke significantly 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.040 more than some of the people who were terminated during 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.480 the demonstration, but were certainly, like historically at the very least, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.800 less visible and less vocal union organizers. So the trend 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.480 that we're seeing is that the people who spoke up 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.320 were either people who had been historically very active in 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.200 the union or in Jake's case, somebody who is doing 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.280 really really impressive coverage of the Trump administration and like 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.120 a really really hard hitting journalism against like Doge and 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.000 like the general efforts of the right right now to 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.760 you know, I mean, listeners of this podcast know everything 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:12.480 that's going on there. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:13.959 Yep. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.560 I'm gonna say this, and I'm going to adopt the 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:30.360 preferred language of these professionals, which is to say that, 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.560 and this is the preferred language of management, is that 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.679 some people are calling this both a return of resegregation 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.320 and an obvious anti union political purge because it is 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.280 a bunch of trans people and a bunch of fam 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.160 white people who have been eliminated from teen Vogue. You know, 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.080 this is something that you were talking about earlier, about 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.959 drawing the connection between this and CBS. I'm like, yeah, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.040 what did Barry Wise do when she got into CBS? 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.680 She fired like every norm white person who worked there, right, 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.160 because their overt political plan is resegregation. And you know, 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.200 in order to do resegregation, you fire all of the 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.000 people who are non white, you get rid of any 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:07.320 trans people, and you get woman. 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:07.920 Admittedly it at. 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:09.440 CBS, it is not like they had like a giant 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.560 like like, you know, it wasn't like like I had 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.360 of trans politics in the first place. I mean they 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.280 had some like you know, there's people there who are 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.960 like cool, but like it wasn't like you know, it's 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.439 it wasn't like teen Vogue, which genuinely had way more 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.079 transcoverage than like any other outlet. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:27.920 No, totally, Like I can. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.320 I emphasize enough like the extent to which this is 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.880 the most normal union activity in the entire world, into 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:34.520 which this is the most protected. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:35.560 Category in the entire world. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.439 And you know, obviously a bunch of the bosses and 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.120 a bunch of like the corporations that are doing this 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.400 shit like don't think the NLRA should exist, and like 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.560 is like a legally valid thing, but it's still enforced 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:50.320 right now and so well mostly but like like for this, yeah, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:50.960 still in force. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.920 So they did unbelievably hideously illegal. 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.120 Retaliatory firings that are illegal in like so many different ways. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.840 It's baffling, Like it's like you need like a second 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.000 laund degree to fight every single ball they just broke totally. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.600 I mean, the thing that I would point out too 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.040 is like, like you said, this is an extremely common 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.080 type of union action, like across the entire labor moved everyone. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.520 Everyone marches on the boss. We also specifically like as 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.839 a union, we've marched on the boss like tons of 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.000 different times. We've marched on stand multiple times in the past. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.960 There was one demonstration where we all marched on stand 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.599 during contract bargaining actually last year where we had significantly 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.200 more people and I will say being much more confrontational. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.280 I remember like a large crowd booing him in front 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:42.080 of the entire executive floor, and I would say, and 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.199 I would say, like two to three times as many 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.960 people present watching in a much more like loud and 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.760 activated and energetic forum. But we've had marches on other executives, 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.840 We've had marches on editors in chief in the past. 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.079 And I mean one of the reasons that, like, when 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:57.600 I got the news that I was being terminated, I 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.520 like basically went into shock, felt extremely tame compared to 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.480 past union actions that we've done. Yeah, and also, no 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.240 one has ever been disciplined for par taking part in 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.560 any action like this in the past, like let alone terminated, 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:11.920 Like as far as I know, no one's ever been 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.040 called into a meeting and said like, you shouldn't have 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.360 done that, and we're keeping an eye on you. So 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.240 this is like a massive escalation on the company side 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.120 in terms of retaliation. And I mean that's also what 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.000 we've heard kind of across the board at the News Guild. 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.880 You know, I've been in close conversations with our president 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.280 and with other like organizers at the Guild who have 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.840 said and this is you know, our local union that 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.880 organizes a bunch of different publications in New York City 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.560 and kind of in the surrounding area. This is one 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.520 of the most egregious examples of retaliation that just about 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.760 anybody I've talked to you has seen in our union's history. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.160 And there's like pretty I think valid concern that like 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.240 if a company like Conde and Asked is able to get 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.160 away with this, like other companies within our union are 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.800 going to follow suit and like take this as their queue, 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.680 which is both scary but also has been energizing for 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:58.360 a lot of people. We've seen, like a lot of 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.040 folks really excited to like show up and join our 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.920 fight and get involved in any way that they can. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:03.720 Hell. 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:04.080 Yeah. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.160 The other thing that I would point out, based on 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.440 what you were saying is so Kanye Nest has a 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.440 queer publication them dot Us, which I think is one 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.200 of the all time URLs for a queer publication. You 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.200 possibly have very funny So between them and teen Vogue, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.160 you had a lot of the company's like trans staffers. 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.880 They kind of function as like sister publications. They like 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.520 sit next to each other, they work closely together outside 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.160 of them. As far as I know, I was the 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.760 only trans woman implied on editorial like Kanye Nest and 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.320 I am certainly the only trans woman in our union, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.680 including at them, actually them, All of the transoman employees there, 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.040 to my understanding, are not part of the unit. They 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:49.720 are in management positions, which, yeah, your representation, but also 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.400 means that like I was obviously in this like very 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.200 lonely position, but also this very like visible and like 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:59.280 clearly very vulnerable position where it's like incredibly easy to 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.840 single somebody like me out. I would also say, during 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.200 our contract fight, we had a lot of back and 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.280 forth between like me and company management about their coverage 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.160 under the healthcare plan. Namely, they excluded facial feminization surgery, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.480 which meant that, like, if you were an employee of 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.720 Conde Nast and you wanted facial feminization surgery, you were 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.480 either out of luck or had to find a way 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:24.440 to raise about fifty thousand dollars based on a lot 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:25.440 of estimates that I've seen. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.120 If you're really lucky and good and you're going to 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:28.840 go to Thailand, you can maybe get it for thirty k. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.800 Yeah, right, no exactly, which immediately the timeline stuff is cool, but. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.680 Totally I mean it's like all the opportunity. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.520 It's a lot of lucking Bundy, like it totally so 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:40.120 much shit. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.360 It sucks so badly, even more if you want to 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.800 recover in your own home and your own Yeah. Actually, 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:48.640 and we weren't able to resolve that in the contract. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.720 I got FFS this year, and to do it, I 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.000 had to go on like a New York State marketplace plan. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.520 Oh no, Jesus Christ, I had both plans active at 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.200 the same time. But I have to get like secondary 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.880 insurance that just seven hundred dollars a month in order 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.119 to get out the best covered god. Yeah, and that 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.120 still ended up being significantly cheaper. Yep, yeah, I mean 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:12.760 and frankly, like Conde Nasked never covered it. Who did 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.040 cover it was like lots of my union colleagues who 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.159 jumped in and like created to go fundme for me 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.160 and like helped to raise like all of the money 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.560 that I needed to get surgery. And very very thankful 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.600 for that. But anyway, point being like, the company does 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.680 not exactly have the best track record when it comes 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.639 to and like I feel very qualified to say this 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.080 as like the trans woman in the Conde Nast union, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.879 the company does not exactly have the best track record 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.479 in terms of like how they have treated us and 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:41.320 me specifically around trans issues. So being like again kind 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.439 of singled out in this way and then being hit 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.119 with like this significant a piece of retaliation, it just 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.520 feels really telling and also I mean really disappointing. Frankly, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.679 like I've I've been at Conde for or I. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.600 Keep using the present tense. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.800 I'd been at Conde for five years, and you know, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:17:59.600 I liked my job. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:00.760 I was good at my job. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.840 I hope that they will reverse course and turn this around, 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.399 but anyway, it's disappointing. It's disappointing that like that that 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.720 doesn't really seem to mean anything when the rapper hits 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:10.040 their own. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.359 Yeah. I think there's two ways you can look at it. 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.440 One is it's like, oh, yeah, of course, of course 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.240 the one trans woman in this bargaining. Yet it was 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.560 like the VP of the union because like, yeah, transferms 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.920 do be organizing, do we do do this? 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:23.879 And that the truth. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:25.840 But then the second thing, and you were talking about this, 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.840 like yeah, the magazines are already understaffed and they're just 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.320 destroying them, you know, And this is the thing that 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:30.720 I can say which is like, this is something we 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.360 saw from Jeff Bezos, right when when Jeff Bezos sort 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.199 of like took control of the Washington Post and then 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.199 gradually sort of purged their staff, and like, you know, 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.679 has this whole thing now about how, oh we're supposed 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.000 to be pro free market and pro individual liberties, which 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.240 does not include trans writes. You know, if you look 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.360 at what happened to the Washington Post's subscriber account, it's 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.439 like nothing, It's like the paper is dying. It's effectively 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.480 just like it's not like an actual functional, like profit 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.280 making thing anymore. Like it's it's just the sort of 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.240 propaganda vanity outlet of a billionaire. And that's you know, 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.720 that's probably what's going to happen to CBS, is that 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.200 it's going to just get sort of annihilate, stripped down, 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.080 because these people don't want a functioning media. They don't 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.719 give a shit if these things actually work, because what 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.560 what they're trying to do right now is accumulate raw, 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.800 accumulate just raw power and attempt to do raw sort 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.120 of narrative and media control in order to stay in power. 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.440 And it's not working because everyone still hates them, even 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.760 though they bought all the newspapers. Everyone is like, these 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.240 people suck, like but this is that we run into 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.680 with union stuff all the time, which is like, yeah, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.680 there are a lot of bosses who would rather their 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.320 own company be nonfunctional, you know, their workers have any 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.560 voice in it. And especially now in this political moment 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.960 in which oh, hey, look the fascists are trying to 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.720 seize control of the media, that becomes increasingly more and 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.199 more an option of just fuck it, will just like 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.800 get handouts from like the tech fascists forever, and in 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.200 exchange for that, will publish whatever propaganda garbage they want 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:01.720 to spit out. 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.280 Yeah, I mean, I would also say, like, I'm not 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.760 sure get about across the entire company. Although I believe 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:10.560 it was one of the better traffic stories that Conde 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.720 Nast all year, but one of the most certainly one 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.600 of the most like trafficked teen Vogue stories in this 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.000 past year, was like out of their politics section. It 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.320 was the Vivian Wilson Elon Musk's Transdoughter cover story, really 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.720 really good, an amazing piece of journalism and also a 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.920 piece like super viral, and I'm sure made a ton 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.440 of money for the company. Yeah, and so one would think, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.960 you know, looking at like the trends of the past, 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.320 that if that was going to inform anything, like the 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.240 company would actually say, like more politics coverage, like more 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.040 progressive coverage out of teen Vogue, and like. 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:45.359 I remember, I don't have the exact numbers on me 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.480 because I'm a hack and of fraud. But if it 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:48.840 wasn't a hack and a fraud, I would have the 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.040 exact numbers from the coverage of like the increase in 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.359 both revenue generation and in like readership that teen Vogue 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.640 underwent once they started doing politic stuff onto the first 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:02.560 show administration. And now you're getting rid of that for 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.480 what are clearly business reasons and are clearly, very very 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.240 clearly not related to the fact that there is a 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.359 bunch of a bunch of political pressure from a bunch 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.040 of fascists to run the government. 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:13.240 Now. 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.080 Yeah, I mean, obviously we don't have like perfect insight 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.440 into what's going on behind closed doors at Conde Nast, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.360 but I can't say that. We had a diversity committee 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.480 meeting with our joint union management diversity committee a week 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.879 before all of this went down, and they told us 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.400 that they were you know, paraphrasing here, but management said 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.840 that they are actively trying to avoid the attention and 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.760 the eyre of the Trump administration, which at the time 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.639 definitely raised some eyebrows and I think led to the 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:40.320 big response last week of like. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:41.440 Mm hmmm, oh. 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.439 By actively avoid the attention of the Trump administration, you 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:46.920 meant just like get rid of the parts of the 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.840 company that are like, yeah, hostile towards it, and I 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.240 mean kind of too, like the good business of progressive coverage. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.119 I've covered a lot of beats in my time of 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.000 bon Epetite, but there was a period where I was 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.280 covering like the Starbucks Workers United fight pretty closely, a 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:01.919 lot of articles about that in my back pocket. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:03.440 Those generally did really well. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.360 Actually, one of the first times I faced like big 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.360 right wing backlash online was covering the like Dylan mulvaney 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.560 bud light protests, which I used as an opportunity to 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.800 write about the like the cores light boycotts of like 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.320 the West Coast queer worker movement and like kind of 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.600 the birth of the like gay labor movement. One of 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.879 my best trafficks of all time stories I wrote about 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.199 the like why the watermelon symbol became like such a 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.880 big kind of like rally and cry and like Palestine 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.240 and organizing over the past few years. Again massive traffic 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:35.760 winner for the company. But every time, you know, we 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:37.920 get into these meetings with management or every time we 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.080 like hear about the direction that the company is shifting 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.879 or the coverage is shifting, it always seems away from 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:44.960 those kind of hot button issues that like there's clearly 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.399 an appetite for stories about and instead towards well whatever 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:50.320 it's towards, you know. 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:52.439 Yeah, and you know, and you can look at this 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.399 like there's been a whole bunch of there was a 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.120 story recently about doctor Oz like pivoting his whole thing 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.840 into doing like a right wing like media grift, and 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.080 nobody's watching it. Like the average episode of it could 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.560 happened here absolutely annihilates like just like like orders of 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:10.560 magnitude better than like no, I think it was doctor 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:11.800 phil Yeah it was doctor Phil. 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:12.200 Who does that? 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.960 Look they're like the same guy, Like, wow, that's not 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:18.200 that that's slightly unfair to doctor os. Well, yeah, doctor 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:19.879 Philip did this, like did the right wing pivot, And 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.720 like nobody's listening to the show. It's like, no one 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:22.960 this is like one of the most famous people in 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.080 the United States getting annihilated by like Mia and the 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:27.359 trendy crew, like. 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:28.600 It could happen here, like. 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.480 Oh wow, you know, and yeah, like there is this 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.360 like massive demand for this stuff as like people increasing 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:41.359 me realize that, oh yeah, wait, hold on, we're getting 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:45.120 every single person like in the country is like almost 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:49.080 individually getting screwed over by the Trump administration. He's like 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.199 individually micro targeting every single part of his base and 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.399 pissing them off. Like there was a whole farmer soy thing, right, 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:57.359 and like he's like, I guess tend this negotiates we 0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:58.840 being sales now. But like, you know, you can look 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:00.960 at like so he was fighting this whole war with 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:03.760 his entire farming base and then he immediately turned around 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:05.920 from there and went to fight the cattle ranchers. It's 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:08.720 like there's so much appetite for any critique of this 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.679 because it's so obviously just like malignant and narcissistically violent, 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:16.679 and all of these companies that are like you know, 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:18.680 like like this has always been the problem with the 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:20.240 free presses that like the US does don't have a 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:22.040 free press. The US is a capitalist press, and so 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:25.920 you know, you can just buy them or apply enough 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:27.880 political pressure and they will fall in line. 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:29.920 And that's like what they're doing here. 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:32.600 So what you're saying is we need a left wing 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:33.159 Joe Rogan. 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.360 I'm gonna become the joker. 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:39.760 Now, of course. 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:44.360 I mean I'll also say, like I became an organizer 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.120 in the News Guild for a lot of reasons, right, 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:48.960 Like Bonapatia was my first job out of college, and 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.600 I was really involved covering the dining workers organizing at 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:55.600 my undergrad school, so that was like definitely my introduction there. 0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:57.520 But at the same time, like when I got into 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:01.280 the workplace, I kind of real that media unions are 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.000 maybe one of the only things that will keep the media, 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.560 at least as currently exists, alive until we can come 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:10.240 up with like some other model that is like more sustainable, 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:12.840 because I mean, like I look at a company like 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:18.080 Conde Nast and you have this like very well compensated, 0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:22.680 very like large cast of managers and middle managers yep, 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:26.359 and then you have this like massive body of people 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.640 actually producing the magazines, actually making like doing the work 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:31.920 of the journalism and the culture reporting and the video 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.879 making and so on. And so on, And you know, 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.840 one of those groups is constantly subject to layoffs, one 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:39.960 of those groups is constantly being made to say work 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:42.199 over time and maybe being told not to build for 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:44.000 as much over time as they're being made to work. 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.080 And one of those groups is being extremely well compensated 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.639 and has seemingly incredible job security. 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:52.800 Yeah, like all all of the resources are being sucked 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.919 out by a combination of like these venture capitalist dipses 0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:57.359 at the top and then all of these fucking like 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.560 middle miror management bureaucrats like who do not right. 0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:03.040 And the thing that slows that down is like workers 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:04.879 having a say in the media, you know, like the 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:07.880 people who actually can produce the work, like being able 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:09.919 to say and these are the circumstances under which the 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:11.800 work is going to be produced. I mean, I think 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.920 it's no surprise that, like if you look at a 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:17.080 publication like hell Gate or like Defector or like Aftermath 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:18.639 and four or four, and all of these like worker 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:20.639 co ops that are popping up kind of across the 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:23.919 media ecosystem, like their worker owns, and they have this 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:28.159 very kind of flat like payment structure where everybody is 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:31.080 making around the same amount, like everybody has a say 0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:33.879 in the way that the workplace functions, and like these 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:35.680 appear at least to me to be some of the 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:39.520 most like stable media like organizations that are out there 0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:42.199 right now. And all that tells me is that like 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.520 workplace democracy, I mean in like the truest sense of 0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.600 the word, you know, like workplace democracy as it is 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.880 earned by like worker organizations, union's, worker co ops, whatever 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:52.840 they might be, is the thing that's going to keep 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:55.040 the media afloat. Like that is the model that is 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:57.959 like sustainable in the long run. So I think that's 0:26:58.000 --> 0:26:59.680 one of the reasons that having like a strong and 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:04.159 active Conde Nasty union, though management probably wouldn't agree, at 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.719 least explicitly, it's like one of the things that can 0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:10.040 keep Conde Nast alive for as long as possible. Like 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:13.159 you know, again, they would probably loath to admit this, 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:15.920 but like an organization like the Conde Nast union can 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:18.880 only exist as long as an organization like Conde Nast exists, 0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:20.960 their fates are kind of tied to one another. 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:26.280 Well, okay, this is we're doing the incredibly esoteric via 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:27.320 meta union three. 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:29.120 There's two versions of looking at this one. 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:31.760 Okay, this is the version where yeah, the Kandy NASA 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.160 union is structurally dependent on the existence of Conde Nast, 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:36.399 and this means that the power of the union is 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:38.200 based on its ability to bring people. 0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:38.360 Back to work. 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:40.920 However, come up, there is a second one you could 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:44.680 theoretically have. You could theoretically have the Conde Nass union 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:49.000 without Conde Nast, where we have CNT and it we've 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:51.119 taken it over, we're running it now. We are just 0:27:51.200 --> 0:27:54.199 now the union. And you know, and the thing, the 0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:55.840 thing I will say about that, and this is always 0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:58.440 this has always been the advantage of co ops is that, 0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.440 like you are immediately from the ground up, you're going 0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:05.600 to have a kind of efficiency advantage because there is 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.840 not an entire middle layer. Like because obviously, like there 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.359 are like producers who do a bunch of work, like 0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:12.199 my boss Sophie. 0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:13.920 Like if we didn't have Sophie, none of this. 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:16.600 Would work, right, Yeah, there's also a bunch of other 0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:20.240 people who have the same title who do nothing. And 0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:21.840 that's not even true. If they did nothing, it would 0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:24.000 be better. They interfere with everything constantly and get pay 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:26.119 an exhordinary large amount of money to make everything work worse, 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:30.200 and you don't have to have that entire bureaucratic layer, 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:32.760 like the layer of middle management. And this has always 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.240 been the massive just efficiency advantage that you have when 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.440 workers running their own shit is that you don't have 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:41.160 to have those people and the coordination that needs to 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:43.480 be done. Okay, you have people doing the coordination. You 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:47.440 don't have fifteen layers of dipshits whose job it is 0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:51.520 to run around making your job harder. This has been 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.800 me talking about the organizational advantages of anarchy. 0:28:53.960 --> 0:29:00.120 It's great, Sorry, now you're fine. I mean, I will 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:03.400 is like it's an interesting thing about Conde Nast and 0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:05.280 like a lot of I think these media conglomerates, it 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.080 is like, you know, other than like when I am 0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:08.920 a member of the Conde Nasty union, and like I 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:12.120 don't really interact with people who work elsewhere at Conde Nast, 0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:14.320 Like yeah, I interact with the people at my magazine 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:16.480 and like the people at Bon Appetite and I like 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.280 generally get along great. I have a really, really awesome 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.400 relationship with my manager. I have a lot of admiration 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:22.480 for him and. 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:22.960 What he does. 0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:24.400 I think he's like the same way that you talk 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.200 about Sophie. I think he's like really great at his job. 0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.000 I like have a good relationship with our editor in chief. 0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:30.440 I have a lot of respect for her as well. 0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:33.360 We have a really really solid system going where we 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:35.600 are like able to make this food magazine every month 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.240 and be able to keep this website online and able 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.560 to make content that we're all like, you know, recipes 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:41.680 and stories that we're all really really proud of. And 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:43.520 then at the same time we were kind of subject 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.120 to this like kind of bigger whatever media machine that's 0:29:47.320 --> 0:29:49.920 like kind of moving around ahead or above us, and 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:53.040 also moving around like again with just like so little transparency. 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.280 Like yeah, going back to the action on Wednesday the fifth, 0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:59.840 we have tried to have meetings with Stan, Like the 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.520 executive that we talked to in the hallway, the executive 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.800 that we marched on. We have tried to have meetings 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.720 with him so many times in so many different ways. 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:11.160 We have emailed him questions, not gotten responses. We have 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:14.080 invited him to like town halls, not gotten responses. We 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.360 invited him to meet with our diversity committee and labor 0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:19.600 relations got mad at us fore seeing him. 0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:20.040 On the email. 0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:20.880 God. 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:23.720 Historically, like that kind of level of the company has 0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:26.800 been extremely averse to interacting with its workers to like 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.200 answering basic questions, which is why, like when you look 0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:32.600 at you know, there's a video out there of the interaction, 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.560 Like this is why we have to march on our 0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:38.080 bosses like this, because there's literally no other way to 0:30:38.080 --> 0:30:40.680 get a single answer out of them, because they kind 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.120 of I mean they exist on this other floor of 0:30:42.160 --> 0:30:46.120 the company altogether, Like so, I don't know, it's it's 0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:48.880 very frustrating. It's frustrating to like kind of exist in 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.320 this like dual system of like, well, we have a 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.120 magazine that we are operating like very effectively on our own, 0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:56.200 and yet there's this entire thing above it that is 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:59.040 making these decisions about how it ought to function and 0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:00.160 like what it ought to be doing. 0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:03.000 Yeah, and who don't know what it does because totally 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.640 they're not there, Like they have absolutely no idea how 0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:06.880 your production actually functions. 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:09.560 I would be surprised if the man who fired me 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:10.800 knew what my job was. 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:12.560 Yeah, no, absolutely not. 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:26.240 All the old critiques of like the Soviet system, we're like, oh, 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:28.520 there's just this out of touch bureaucraft three hundred miles 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:29.720 away making production decisions. 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:31.480 Blah blah, blah blah blah. It's like, oh, yeah, no, that's. 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:35.520 Actually just like how your job works is some suit 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:39.520 in like another building is like, oh, your jobs are 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.360 all replaceable. Oh you can you can do this with 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:43.480 like twenty percent less staff. Oh I don't even know 0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:45.880 what you do, but we're firing you because we hate 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:46.680 you specifically. 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:51.200 Like it's just a terrible way for the world to run. 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:52.840 Yeah, totally. 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:55.000 And I mean we have like these models of like 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.880 what successful workplaces can look like, you know, like places 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.880 with militant unions that like actually work, like actually give 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:02.680 workers to say and what their conditions should be and 0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:05.120 what their conditions are, places that have gotten rid of 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.280 the boss altogether, and like you know again those worker 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:09.480 co ops that I listed, Like, there are these functional 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.280 models of what the future of media can look like. 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:12.960 And this is the thing that I say all the time. 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:14.520 It is like the reason that I'm excited about being 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:16.040 a member of the News Guild, the reason I got 0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.480 involved in organizing in the first place, is like I 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:20.720 think there is a future of media, Like I think 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.000 there is a way that like, you know, people like 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:24.760 you and people like me, like people who write and 0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:27.200 tell stories and like are interested in like talking to 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:29.520 people and getting their stories out there. I think there 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.640 are sustainable ways that we can do that, And I 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:33.640 think the people who know how to do like the 0:32:33.640 --> 0:32:36.239 sustainable future of this thing are the people who are 0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:39.040 making the product in the first place. Yeah, Like we 0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:40.760 are the ones with vision, Like we are the ones 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:43.080 who know how to make something that can continue to 0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.200 exist sustainably, something that can like even under the capitalists 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:48.360 like framework, Like something that can make money, something that 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:50.840 can be profitable. A lot of the great journalists I 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:53.840 know are like actually very interested in and very very 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.200 good at making work that like generates quite a bit 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:58.800 of revenue. And I don't think that's a particularly bad thing. 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:00.360 Like they know how to do this in a way 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.880 that is sustainable, in a way that keeps readers excited 0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:04.960 and engaged in like willing to like pitch in in 0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:07.840 their own ways. The problem is that the people who 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:09.800 seem to have that know how, the people who make 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:11.400 the thing and the people who know how to keep 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:13.440 making the thing, and the people who are making the 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:15.440 decisions like aren't the same people. 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:16.280 Yeah. 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.720 And the way that you fix that divide, like is 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:21.000 by demanding a seat at the table is by demanding 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:23.720 the people who are making those decisions actually do listen 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.160 to you, and then demanding that they actually follow through 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:27.880 on the obligation or the things that they say they're 0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:30.040 going to do. One of the really frustrating things about 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:32.440 my termination is like they're saying that I was like 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:36.880 too aggressive and was harassing the chief people officer. Again, 0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:39.640 there's a video I think is extremely exonerating. 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:44.680 Also, oh wow, the trends woman's being too aggressive? Wow? 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:49.480 Wow crazy one day they're going to develop a second joke. 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.840 Wow anything now? No, I know. 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:57.320 Actually one thing some like Chud on the internet who 0:33:57.360 --> 0:33:58.560 was like trying to make fun of me, is that 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:00.600 I was wearing a wig out like to stay for 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:02.280 the record, I don't wear a wig. 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.800 This is my hair. I grew it myself. It's took 0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:07.920 a while, thank you. I agree. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.400 Although one of my friends told me that I have 0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:14.680 turf bangs the other day, which I really actually it 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:16.399 was the day that I got fired, come to think 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:25.960 of it, because before they knew to be fair. But no, 0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:29.799 I know, sorry, what was I saying before that? 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:32.960 I The last time I got owned that hard was 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:34.560 what Bob called me a talking head. 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.719 So you know it happens. Sometimes you get absolutely obliterated. 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:40.360 But I love that band. 0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:42.480 It's good bad. 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.799 But if the company like actually believed that I was, 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:48.359 you know, being too aggressive or like committing I think 0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:50.759 the words that they used are like gross misconduct, Like 0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:54.280 I know, we have just caused protections in our contract 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:57.319 that include like an explicit procedure that you're supposed to 0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:00.040 go through for gross miss conduct. Like if the the 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:03.040 company was following the contract, if they felt the obligation 0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:05.480 to do so, what should have happened is they shouldn't 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:07.080 have let me finished the rest of my work day. Instead, 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:09.240 I should have been escorted out of the building by security. 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:11.680 I should have been placed on a leave. There should 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:14.040 have been an investigation with like time for me and 0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:16.200 the union to comment, and then a decision should have 0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:18.520 came out. And the entire time that should have been happening, 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:22.320 I should have been paid. And like if that sounds greedy, okay, 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:24.360 the company agreed to it, like they didn't have to 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:27.480 sign the contract, but they did. But this is another 0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:29.560 like concerning trend that we're seeing right now with like 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.239 you know, the gutted NLRB and like the kind of yeah, 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:36.239 you know, shirking of NLRA like responsibilities from companies is 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:39.360 like companies are like straight up gas lighting workers not 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:41.400 things that are in the contracts that they agreed to. 0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:44.319 They are like pointing to the contract and saying that 0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:46.480 it says things that it doesn't say, or that it 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:48.440 doesn't say things that are like right there for you 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.719 and clearing English right before your eyes. Actually, another time 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:53.600 that we tried to talk to Stan this year was 0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:56.360 so we're based out of New York, predominantly we have 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.080 remote workers across the country. Although we were told just 0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:00.919 about everybody at the comp I need to start coming 0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.480 into the New York offices four days a week. There's 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.279 a section of our contract that says that under a 0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:09.640 declared state of emergency, workers can stay home. Well, this 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.719 summer in New York, listeners may remember, we had a 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:16.000 really massive, like terrible heat wave, like temperatures up in 0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:19.240 the one hundreds every day, like going into the subway stations, 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:21.240 and that week I remember feeling like I was baking. 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:25.120 During the declared state of emergency, which again the contract 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.360 says workers do not have to come into the office. 0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:29.680 The company said, we don't care, you have to come 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:33.040 into the office paraphrasing those aren't there exact words, but 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:36.320 they're not too far off. And again we said, okay, 0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:38.719 but the contract says under a declared state of emergency, 0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:40.960 we don't have to come into the office. And they 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:43.359 said you have to come into the office four days 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.600 a week, no exceptions. And it is maddening. I mean, no, 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:50.200 that's life threatening, Like, oh, I mean yeah, absolutely, And 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:52.160 I will say, like, you know, I've been at the 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:53.680 company five years. That makes me a bit of a 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:55.480 long hauler. Like we have people who have been at 0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:57.799 the company for like fifteen twenty years. Like there are 0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:00.680 people who are like near retirement age standing on a 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:03.120 subway platform. Again, it's New York City. People aren't really 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:06.120 in air conditioned cars driving to work. Like there are 0:37:06.120 --> 0:37:08.759 people for whom, like at all ages standing on a 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.560 subway platform in that kind of heat is a really 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.000 life threatening and like really dangerous thing to demand people do. 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:16.319 Yeah, which is like one of the things that. 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:18.440 We were thinking about when we like fought for that 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:20.799 contract language and like one of the things that we 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.040 were thinking about when we were like nearly ready, like 0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:25.120 in fact that we were ready to go on strike. Yeah, 0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:27.439 and like disrupt the net Gala in May of twenty 0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:29.600 twenty four. Like, that is one of the things that 0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:31.480 we were thinking about when we drafted that, and one 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:33.480 of the things we were really excited that the company 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:35.719 agreed to give us when we won our contract. And 0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:38.439 so for them to immediately just say, oh, just kidding, well, 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:40.640 oh well, now if we file a grievance, it might 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.759 take like months directify, well, just kidding, those rights that 0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:46.400 we gave you, they don't exist anymore. Sorry. And again 0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:50.480 it is like clear, easy to understand language that they 0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:53.520 are somehow willing to just say, like the contract doesn't 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:54.640 say what it says. 0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:56.840 It's interesting because I mean, you know, there's like the 0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.080 one here in like companies have always like not followed contracts. 0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:01.120 It's always been like, Okay, if you want your contract 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:02.720 to do what it says it does, you have to force. 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:02.880 Them to do it. 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:04.600 But on the other hand, like the thing that it 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:06.600 reminds me of is like one of the things happened 0:38:06.640 --> 0:38:08.759 with the Trump administration. Whenever talking about them pissing off 0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:10.920 their bases, there's been a bunch of unions that they've 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:14.480 just unilaterally been this is said, this is national security. 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:17.400 We don't recognize your contract anymore. So for example, like 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.480 the the funny version of is they did this at 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.279 a prison guard union, which is hilarious. 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:25.480 It's like, yeah, I don't know you guys. You guys 0:38:25.520 --> 0:38:26.399 shat in your own bed. 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:28.480 Now you have to lie in it, Like I don't 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:29.719 know what to tell you, but like yeah, but like 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:31.840 you know, the national government has been doing this to 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:33.680 a bunch of unions. Is they've just been going totally, 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:35.320 we know that we don't have to follow this contract anymore. 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:39.200 It's national security and that's the future that all of 0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:41.680 these people want and that they're like, you know, this 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:43.680 is part of what they're fighting for. This is part 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:45.640 of that fight, is that they want to fight where 0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:47.680 contract union contracts don't exist and they could just do 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:48.880 whatever they want to anyone. 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.200 I mean, there's also like a clear line you can 0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:53.759 draw from say like like the Reagan era and the 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:56.520 like air traffic controller unions strike break, and then like 0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:59.520 the way that from like the federal government unions, and 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.080 like the way that the federal government treats its unions 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:04.959 that like basically the rest of the American labor movement 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:07.800 and rather the management side responses to the American labor 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:08.840 movement generally flow. 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.120 Yeah, yeah, is there anything else that you want to 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:13.640 make sure that people know. 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:16.880 Well, I mean, in the coming days and weeks, the 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:19.960 union is planning a lot to fight back against the company. 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:24.560 Oh yeah, that said. One of the things that we 0:39:24.600 --> 0:39:29.200 know most about media organizations generally is that they are 0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:31.600 very concerned about public pressure and they are very concerned 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:35.200 about public image. This is like APR obsessed industry for 0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:37.920 better and for worse. So we are hoping that like 0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:40.400 readers and you know, fans and followers will keep the 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:43.920 pressure up against Conde Nast to show like employers like 0:39:43.960 --> 0:39:46.560 them that like, we will not stand for this. We 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:48.920 have an Action Network petition up right now that we 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:51.560 are going to keep collecting signatures for that we hope 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:54.560 to deliver to management soon depending on once it comes out. 0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:57.000 I mean, we'll be collecting signatures regardless, and that is 0:39:57.000 --> 0:39:59.200 also one of the best ways signing on to that. 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.439 We'll get you out dates for other ways that you can, 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:05.399 you know, support us from the outside. But otherwise, I mean, 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:06.920 we've got a lot of fighting to do, We've got 0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:10.919 a lot of organizing to do. I certainly don't think 0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:14.719 my days at Conde Naster over, I expect that, like 0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:17.319 however long it takes for the law of shakeout, like 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:20.520 I hope to be reinstated, as do the other like 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:25.000 three terminated employees. I also am certain that like we 0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:26.960 will be able to win justice for ourselves and the 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:31.560 other people who were like illegally retaliatorally disciplined following the action. 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:34.360 And I also think that this is nowhere near the 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.480 last action that Conde Nast upper management should expect. If 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.000 anything like this is just showing us that if we 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:42.239 want our contract to be enforced, if we want the 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:44.120 rights that they said that they would give us, we 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.040 are going to have to keep holding them to account 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:48.320 and we are going to have to keep fighting for them. 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:49.799 Trying to figure out whether or not I can get 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:51.520 away with saying you have sown the wind and now 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:52.560 the whirlwind. 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:02.319 Oh god, you have so own the bond appetite, and 0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:04.360 now you will get the I can't finish that. 0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:10.000 You've sewed the butt appetite. Now you'll get teen votes to. 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:14.520 You have sewn the bond and now you'll get the appetite. 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:19.120 That doesn't mean anything, that's on anything. 0:41:18.840 --> 0:41:26.000 You know, Look, it's a struggling time for the whole industry. Yeah, 0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:27.719 and if people want to find you, do you want 0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:29.279 to be found a n B? If people want to 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:30.600 find you, where can they find your work? 0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:31.480 Yeah, totally. 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:37.200 I plan to keep writing and doing journalism for the 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.879 however long I can allowed to keep doing that. So 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:46.080 I'm on basically every website as at Goodbye Almah, including 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:50.080 the Evil ones sadly. I also I co edit a 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:53.520 literary magazine with my friend Joyce. That's called Picnic Magazine. 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.120 It's very cool. It's all work by trans contributors. We 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:01.520 are predominantly a print first publication. You can find us 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.520 at picnicmag on Instagram. We're also on Blue Sky. I 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:07.560 should have prepared our at but I'm sure I can 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:08.680 send that to you afterwards. 0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:10.080 Yeah, well we'll put it in that, We'll put it 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:10.560 in the station. 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.000 And yeah, we are available in a few bookstores in 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:16.640 big cities across the country. We also have a you 0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:18.359 can download our PDF and a pay what you want 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:20.439 kind of way. We have a second issue coming soon. 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:22.919 Although it turns out making a magazine with just two 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:27.240 trans women and it's really difficult, So yeah. 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:28.520 Check that out. It's all fiction. 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:32.200 Criticism and poetry by trans contributors and yeah, follow me 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:34.200 at Goodbye Alma Online. 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:36.000 Yeah yeah. 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:38.600 If you want actual news that's fit to print, you're 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:39.560 going to have to fight for it. 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:42.160 Amen to that says there. 0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:47.880 It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:51.120 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:53.759 cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:56.799 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:57.680 Listen to podcasts. 0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:00.160 You can now find sources for it Could Happen are 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:03.080 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.