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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Zinking Happen Here a podcast telling you to rage

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Speaker 2: against the dying of the light. I am your host,

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Speaker 2: Bia long and many episodes ago, significantly more tearfully, I

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Speaker 2: talked about how, you know, watching the trans voices in

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Speaker 2: media get fired and disappear felt like watching the stars

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Speaker 2: disappear in the sky. And today I am here to say,

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Speaker 2: do you not go gently into that good night?

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Speaker 3: Fuck him?

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Speaker 2: Rage against the dying of the lights, and with me

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Speaker 2: to rage against the dying of the light and talk

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Speaker 2: about some absolute bullshit. Is Alma a Vie who is

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Speaker 2: a former staffer at Bonappetite, and we will be getting

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Speaker 2: into why that's now technically former and the VP of

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Speaker 2: the New S Guild of New York.

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Speaker 3: Alma, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Amy, lovely to be here.

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Speaker 3: I wish it was under better circumstances.

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Speaker 2: I feel like everyone I talked to I go, I

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Speaker 2: wish you were under me circumstances.

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Speaker 5: But you know, yeah, circumstances across the border kind of

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Speaker 5: trash right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're really bad. The circumstances they do be

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Speaker 3: they do, they do be shit.

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Speaker 2: So these specifically bad circumstances are one conte Nast has

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Speaker 2: just obliterated teen Vogue, which had been one of the

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Speaker 2: few actually very good progressive outlets, also one of the

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Speaker 2: few outlets that would publish trans people regularly, and it's

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Speaker 2: just gone now. And Alma and three of her coullies

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Speaker 2: were fired for very productive union activity, being like, hey, what.

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Speaker 3: The fuck in we kinder terms of that. I can

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Speaker 3: say this because it's not my ass of the line,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, do you want to talk a bit about

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Speaker 3: what happened?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. I mean to give the company it's caveat. Technically,

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Speaker 5: teen Vogue still exists. It has just been moved under

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Speaker 5: the broader organization of Vogue. They've now said that it's

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Speaker 5: coverage areas will include professional development as well as well.

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Speaker 5: There are a couple of other things that they highlighted,

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Speaker 5: but certainly the things that they did not highlight include, say,

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Speaker 5: you know, scathing coverage of the Trump administration, or coverage

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Speaker 5: of trans youth and trans healthcare bands for teenagers, coverage

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Speaker 5: of like young celebrities of color, and so on. But yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 5: I guess to just go back to the start of

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Speaker 5: the timeline. Last Monday, we at the News Guild and

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Speaker 5: you know, at the Conde Nast Union, which is the

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Speaker 5: union that represents basically every worker or every journalist and

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Speaker 5: video maker at Conde Nast except for those in the

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Speaker 5: New Yorker, they are in like a separate bargaining unit

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Speaker 5: that we see as like you know, linked sibling units

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Speaker 5: or at the linked sibling unions. We do most of

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Speaker 5: our organizing together, and our contracts are nearly identical. But

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Speaker 5: anyway we yeah, I know, right, union siblings. It's adorable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we try to stay close.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, we got word last Monday that about two

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Speaker 5: thirds of the staff of teen Vogue were being laid off,

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Speaker 5: including a friend of mine and I think former guests

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Speaker 5: on your show, actually Lex mcmahamon, who was the politics

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Speaker 5: editor at teen Vogue, as well as a few of

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Speaker 5: the culture editors based like if they were covering I

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Speaker 5: mean being a little glib here, but like if they

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Speaker 5: were covering say like trans writes, trans youth, like progressive

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Speaker 5: culture and nearly any way shape or form. Yep, they

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Speaker 5: were either laid off or the remaining workers were folded

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Speaker 5: into the larger organization of Vogue. And I think they're

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Speaker 5: still figuring out exactly where they fit into that organization

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Speaker 5: and what like youth coverage looks like going forward. So

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Speaker 5: that happened last Monday, which was obviously a massive loss.

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Speaker 5: I sat in on a lot of the like the

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Speaker 5: wine Garten meetings, going over the exit packages for those employees,

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Speaker 5: a lot of like really sad and cheerful meetings that day.

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Speaker 2: We should point out this is being recorded on Monday,

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Speaker 2: the tenth. Last Monday's is Monday, November third. Not sure

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Speaker 2: when this is going to come out, but yet just

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Speaker 2: to make the time link clear here, Yes, absolutely November third.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was Monday, November third. Yeah, thank you for

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Speaker 5: the correction. And then two days later at the company,

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Speaker 5: we got a notification that there was another round of layoffs,

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Speaker 5: this one hitting I believe folks on the video teams

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Speaker 5: and then people on the like copy in fact checking

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Speaker 5: section of the com company as well.

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Speaker 4: This was super disruptive.

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Speaker 5: Usually, you know, at a company like Conde Nast, well,

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Speaker 5: the union doesn't have like explicit protections for this, and

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Speaker 5: in fact, like the company has the right to perform

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Speaker 5: layoffs if they need to for business reasons. Usually when

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Speaker 5: a round of layoffs goes through, there's like a period

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Speaker 5: of peace that comes after that, you know, like there

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Speaker 5: will be you know, a reduction in force. We'll figure out, Okay,

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Speaker 5: how are we going to keep doing our jobs now

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Speaker 5: that we have fewer staffers, and then if the company

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Speaker 5: needs to reduce the staff again, that will happen like

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Speaker 5: a few months, maybe a year in the future.

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Speaker 4: Two rounds of layoffs in the same.

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Speaker 5: Week had people really really scared and really stressed out, because,

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Speaker 5: I mean, for one, there's like just the sense of, like,

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Speaker 5: oh God, a lot of my coworkers are gone, how

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Speaker 5: am I going to be able to keep doing my job?

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Speaker 5: We lost at my magazine, bon Apetite. We lost our

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Speaker 5: social media director, the person who was basically running our

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Speaker 5: social accounts. We'd gotten notification from the company that editors

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Speaker 5: were going to be doing their own posting from then on,

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Speaker 5: which is just not not how things I've ever worked before,

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Speaker 5: not really a thing that they're like, you know, my

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Speaker 5: colleagues are brilliant, and many of them are brilliant like

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Speaker 5: users of social media, but like not really a part

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Speaker 5: of our jobs historically. So we're all pretty confused how

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Speaker 5: we were supposed to, you know, actually keep running our magazine.

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Speaker 5: Most of our magazines are already running on pretty reduced

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Speaker 5: staffs in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So anyway between that and the kind of obvious

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Speaker 5: political connection that one could draw, or at least like that,

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Speaker 5: a lot of our members were afraid of, you know,

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Speaker 5: teen Vogue being this like pretty famously radical or at

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Speaker 5: the very least like pretty famously progressive publication doing some

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Speaker 5: like really really hard hitting journalism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a really clear.

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Speaker 5: Line you can draw between like all of the Colbert

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Speaker 5: and Jimmy Kibble, but also like the CBS stuff with

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Speaker 5: Barry Weiss, like this kind of broader right wing shift

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Speaker 5: in media. You can draw I think a direct line

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Speaker 5: between all of that and like the shuttering or near

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Speaker 5: shuttering of teen Vogue. So we did a thing that

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Speaker 5: we basically always do when we're facing an issue like this,

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Speaker 5: whether it's a big reduction in force or just some

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Speaker 5: decision from the upper levels of the management that have

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Speaker 5: all of the workers being like, wait, what the fuck

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Speaker 5: did you just do? We had a rally in the

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Speaker 5: cafeteria to go over some of the questions that we

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Speaker 5: all have for management. We created a list of questions

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Speaker 5: that we wanted to ask and then and I cannot

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Speaker 5: stress how like routine this is for us as a union.

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Speaker 5: We went from the cafeteria, which is on the thirty

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Speaker 5: fifth floor of the World Trade Center, down to the

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Speaker 5: executive floor, which is directly below it on the thirty

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Speaker 5: fourth floor of the World Trade Center, and we walked

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Speaker 5: over to the executive offices and said, we have some

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Speaker 5: questions for Stan Duncan, who is the head of the

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Speaker 5: people team at CONDE, and asked basically one of the

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Speaker 5: people in charge of either making these decisions of you know,

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Speaker 5: staffing in reduction, and then of enforcing those decisions as well.

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Speaker 5: We went down to speak with Stan Duncan ask him

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Speaker 5: some of our questions. Two other HR employees came out

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Speaker 5: in medicine the hallway. We said we'd like to speak

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Speaker 5: to Stan. We were happy to ask them our questions,

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Speaker 5: but they said they wouldn't be particularly good at answering them,

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Speaker 5: or they might not have good answers for us. But Stan,

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Speaker 5: they said, was in a meeting at the time. It

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Speaker 5: just so happened that either Stan's meeting ended right then,

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Speaker 5: or maybe he heard people talking in the hallway and

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Speaker 5: decided to come check it out, or maybe there wasn't

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Speaker 5: a meeting, but For whatever reason, Stan happened to come

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Speaker 5: out into the hallway at that time, and so we

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Speaker 5: started trying to ask him our questions. Some of those

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Speaker 5: questions included, like, was the closing of teen Vogue inherently political?

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Speaker 5: But also how are we going to be able to

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Speaker 5: do our jobs going forward? How are we supposed to

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Speaker 5: keep running these magazines if you're going to keep cutting

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Speaker 5: our jobs? And then also how are we supposed to

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Speaker 5: keep doing our jobs if we are constantly living in

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Speaker 5: fear of losing them? You know, Stan does not answer

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Speaker 5: any of these questions. Of course, yeah, no, naturally, he

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Speaker 5: tells us we're not allowed to congregate in the hallway.

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Speaker 5: This is not true, of course, we what well, yeah,

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Speaker 5: we I mean, one, this is our workplace. We I

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Speaker 5: think are allowed to have conversations in the hallway of

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Speaker 5: our workplace too. I mean, if he was saying that

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Speaker 5: we weren't allowed to, say, take part in union activities

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Speaker 5: in the workplace, we have a right under Section seven

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Speaker 5: of the NLRA that says we can do that. We

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Speaker 5: also have like contract provisions that say the company will

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Speaker 5: not infringe upon our right to organize and demonstrate in

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Speaker 5: the workplace. So that just wasn't true, and in fact,

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Speaker 5: the union before everything else happened, already filed a grievance

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Speaker 5: about denying our Section seven rights to organize in the workplace.

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Speaker 5: God yeah, So anyway, stand tries to get us to

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Speaker 5: go back to our desks. He walks across the floor,

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Speaker 5: tells us to follow him. We follow him and keep

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Speaker 5: asking questions. He says that we have to go back

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Speaker 5: and do our jobs. We say, we will happily do

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Speaker 5: our jobs if you could just answer our questions. He

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Speaker 5: tells us that we have to go back to our workplaces.

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Speaker 5: We remind him this is our workplace, and anyway, we

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Speaker 5: end up asking him those questions. We follow him back

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Speaker 5: and forth along the hallway. He goes back into his office,

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Speaker 5: closes the door. We all go back to our desks

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Speaker 5: for the rest of the day. I finish up my

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Speaker 5: work and I go home, and then I get notification

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Speaker 5: from the News Guild at seven that the company has

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Speaker 5: no tofied them that they are terminating me and three

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Speaker 5: of my colleagues.

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Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 5: No severance, no ongoing insurance coverage. My insurance expires at

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Speaker 5: the end of the month, no notice, no investigation, effective immediately.

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Speaker 5: So as of last Wednesday, I am no longer an

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Speaker 5: employee of Conde Nast. I'd been working there for five years.

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Speaker 5: I helped start the Conde Nast union. In the time

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Speaker 5: since I joined there, I was one of the most

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Speaker 5: tenured members of my magazine. Actually, people don't generally stick

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Speaker 5: around there for a long time, but at twenty seven

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Speaker 5: years old, I was a long hauler MIA and Yeah.

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Speaker 5: In the time since then, our union has filed a

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Speaker 5: second grievance. There was the first one over telling us

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Speaker 5: we couldn't congregate. There's now a second one over the

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Speaker 5: retaliatory firings of me and my three colleagues. The company

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Speaker 5: has since put five other people I believe on an

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Speaker 5: unpaid leave in an attempt to discipline more people who

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Speaker 5: took part in the demonstration. Kind Of hard to see

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Speaker 5: rhyme or reason in the people that they decided to discipline.

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Speaker 5: So I was speaking quite a bit during the demonstration,

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Speaker 5: as was one of the other people who was terminated.

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Speaker 5: One person asked one question that was a Jake la

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Speaker 5: Hood at Wired. He asked a question towards the beginning,

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Speaker 5: which was, what is your definition of congregate? When they

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Speaker 5: told us we can't congregate in the whole way, which

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Speaker 5: I think is a perfectly valid question. And then one

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Speaker 5: person who was terminated actually as far as I know,

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Speaker 5: didn't speak at all during the demonstration. He was, however,

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Speaker 5: the vice president of the New Yorker Union or the

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Speaker 5: vice chair of the New Yorker Union, and an organizer

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Speaker 5: that the company was like very well aware of. And

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Speaker 5: then as for the people who were placed on disciplinary leaves,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I believe some of them actually spoke significantly

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Speaker 5: more than some of the people who were terminated during

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Speaker 5: the demonstration, but were certainly, like historically at the very least,

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Speaker 5: less visible and less vocal union organizers. So the trend

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Speaker 5: that we're seeing is that the people who spoke up

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Speaker 5: were either people who had been historically very active in

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Speaker 5: the union or in Jake's case, somebody who is doing

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Speaker 5: really really impressive coverage of the Trump administration and like

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Speaker 5: a really really hard hitting journalism against like Doge and

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Speaker 5: like the general efforts of the right right now to

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Speaker 5: you know, I mean, listeners of this podcast know everything

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Speaker 5: that's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say this, and I'm going to adopt the

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Speaker 2: preferred language of these professionals, which is to say that,

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Speaker 2: and this is the preferred language of management, is that

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Speaker 2: some people are calling this both a return of resegregation

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Speaker 2: and an obvious anti union political purge because it is

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Speaker 2: a bunch of trans people and a bunch of fam

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Speaker 2: white people who have been eliminated from teen Vogue. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is something that you were talking about earlier, about

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Speaker 2: drawing the connection between this and CBS. I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what did Barry Wise do when she got into CBS?

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Speaker 2: She fired like every norm white person who worked there, right,

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Speaker 2: because their overt political plan is resegregation. And you know,

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Speaker 2: in order to do resegregation, you fire all of the

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Speaker 2: people who are non white, you get rid of any

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Speaker 2: trans people, and you get woman.

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Speaker 3: Admittedly it at.

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Speaker 2: CBS, it is not like they had like a giant

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Speaker 2: like like, you know, it wasn't like like I had

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Speaker 2: of trans politics in the first place. I mean they

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Speaker 2: had some like you know, there's people there who are

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Speaker 2: like cool, but like it wasn't like you know, it's

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like teen Vogue, which genuinely had way more

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Speaker 2: transcoverage than like any other outlet.

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Speaker 4: No, totally, Like I can.

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Speaker 2: I emphasize enough like the extent to which this is

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Speaker 2: the most normal union activity in the entire world, into

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Speaker 2: which this is the most protected.

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Speaker 3: Category in the entire world.

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Speaker 2: And you know, obviously a bunch of the bosses and

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Speaker 2: a bunch of like the corporations that are doing this

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Speaker 2: shit like don't think the NLRA should exist, and like

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Speaker 2: is like a legally valid thing, but it's still enforced

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Speaker 2: right now and so well mostly but like like for this, yeah,

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Speaker 2: still in force.

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Speaker 3: So they did unbelievably hideously illegal.

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Speaker 2: Retaliatory firings that are illegal in like so many different ways.

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Speaker 2: It's baffling, Like it's like you need like a second

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Speaker 2: laund degree to fight every single ball they just broke totally.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the thing that I would point out too

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Speaker 5: is like, like you said, this is an extremely common

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Speaker 5: type of union action, like across the entire labor moved everyone.

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Speaker 5: Everyone marches on the boss. We also specifically like as

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Speaker 5: a union, we've marched on the boss like tons of

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Speaker 5: different times. We've marched on stand multiple times in the past.

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Speaker 5: There was one demonstration where we all marched on stand

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Speaker 5: during contract bargaining actually last year where we had significantly

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Speaker 5: more people and I will say being much more confrontational.

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Speaker 5: I remember like a large crowd booing him in front

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Speaker 5: of the entire executive floor, and I would say, and

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Speaker 5: I would say, like two to three times as many

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Speaker 5: people present watching in a much more like loud and

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Speaker 5: activated and energetic forum. But we've had marches on other executives,

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Speaker 5: We've had marches on editors in chief in the past.

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Speaker 5: And I mean one of the reasons that, like, when

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Speaker 5: I got the news that I was being terminated, I

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Speaker 5: like basically went into shock, felt extremely tame compared to

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Speaker 5: past union actions that we've done. Yeah, and also, no

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Speaker 5: one has ever been disciplined for par taking part in

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Speaker 5: any action like this in the past, like let alone terminated,

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Speaker 5: Like as far as I know, no one's ever been

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Speaker 5: called into a meeting and said like, you shouldn't have

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Speaker 5: done that, and we're keeping an eye on you. So

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Speaker 5: this is like a massive escalation on the company side

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Speaker 5: in terms of retaliation. And I mean that's also what

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Speaker 5: we've heard kind of across the board at the News Guild.

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Speaker 5: You know, I've been in close conversations with our president

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Speaker 5: and with other like organizers at the Guild who have

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Speaker 5: said and this is you know, our local union that

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Speaker 5: organizes a bunch of different publications in New York City

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Speaker 5: and kind of in the surrounding area. This is one

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Speaker 5: of the most egregious examples of retaliation that just about

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Speaker 5: anybody I've talked to you has seen in our union's history.

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Speaker 5: And there's like pretty I think valid concern that like

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Speaker 5: if a company like Conde and Asked is able to get

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Speaker 5: away with this, like other companies within our union are

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Speaker 5: going to follow suit and like take this as their queue,

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Speaker 5: which is both scary but also has been energizing for

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Speaker 5: a lot of people. We've seen, like a lot of

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Speaker 5: folks really excited to like show up and join our

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Speaker 5: fight and get involved in any way that they can.

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Speaker 3: Hell.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The other thing that I would point out, based on

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Speaker 5: what you were saying is so Kanye Nest has a

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Speaker 5: queer publication them dot Us, which I think is one

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Speaker 5: of the all time URLs for a queer publication. You

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Speaker 5: possibly have very funny So between them and teen Vogue,

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Speaker 5: you had a lot of the company's like trans staffers.

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Speaker 5: They kind of function as like sister publications. They like

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Speaker 5: sit next to each other, they work closely together outside

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Speaker 5: of them. As far as I know, I was the

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Speaker 5: only trans woman implied on editorial like Kanye Nest and

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Speaker 5: I am certainly the only trans woman in our union,

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Speaker 5: including at them, actually them, All of the transoman employees there,

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Speaker 5: to my understanding, are not part of the unit. They

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Speaker 5: are in management positions, which, yeah, your representation, but also

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Speaker 5: means that like I was obviously in this like very

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Speaker 5: lonely position, but also this very like visible and like

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Speaker 5: clearly very vulnerable position where it's like incredibly easy to

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Speaker 5: single somebody like me out. I would also say, during

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Speaker 5: our contract fight, we had a lot of back and

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Speaker 5: forth between like me and company management about their coverage

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Speaker 5: under the healthcare plan. Namely, they excluded facial feminization surgery,

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Speaker 5: which meant that, like, if you were an employee of

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Speaker 5: Conde Nast and you wanted facial feminization surgery, you were

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Speaker 5: either out of luck or had to find a way

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Speaker 5: to raise about fifty thousand dollars based on a lot

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Speaker 5: of estimates that I've seen.

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Speaker 3: If you're really lucky and good and you're going to

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Speaker 3: go to Thailand, you can maybe get it for thirty k.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, right, no exactly, which immediately the timeline stuff is cool, but.

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Speaker 4: Totally I mean it's like all the opportunity.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of lucking Bundy, like it totally so

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Speaker 3: much shit.

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Speaker 5: It sucks so badly, even more if you want to

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Speaker 5: recover in your own home and your own Yeah. Actually,

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Speaker 5: and we weren't able to resolve that in the contract.

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Speaker 5: I got FFS this year, and to do it, I

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Speaker 5: had to go on like a New York State marketplace plan.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, Jesus Christ, I had both plans active at

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Speaker 5: the same time. But I have to get like secondary

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Speaker 5: insurance that just seven hundred dollars a month in order

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Speaker 5: to get out the best covered god. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 5: still ended up being significantly cheaper. Yep, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 5: and frankly, like Conde Nasked never covered it. Who did

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Speaker 5: cover it was like lots of my union colleagues who

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Speaker 5: jumped in and like created to go fundme for me

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Speaker 5: and like helped to raise like all of the money

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Speaker 5: that I needed to get surgery. And very very thankful

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Speaker 5: for that. But anyway, point being like, the company does

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Speaker 5: not exactly have the best track record when it comes

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Speaker 5: to and like I feel very qualified to say this

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Speaker 5: as like the trans woman in the Conde Nast union,

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Speaker 5: the company does not exactly have the best track record

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Speaker 5: in terms of like how they have treated us and

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Speaker 5: me specifically around trans issues. So being like again kind

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Speaker 5: of singled out in this way and then being hit

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Speaker 5: with like this significant a piece of retaliation, it just

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Speaker 5: feels really telling and also I mean really disappointing. Frankly,

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Speaker 5: like I've I've been at Conde for or I.

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Speaker 4: Keep using the present tense.

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Speaker 5: I'd been at Conde for five years, and you know,

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Speaker 5: I liked my job.

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Speaker 4: I was good at my job.

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Speaker 5: I hope that they will reverse course and turn this around,

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Speaker 5: but anyway, it's disappointing. It's disappointing that like that that

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Speaker 5: doesn't really seem to mean anything when the rapper hits

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Speaker 5: their own.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's two ways you can look at it.

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Speaker 2: One is it's like, oh, yeah, of course, of course

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Speaker 2: the one trans woman in this bargaining. Yet it was

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Speaker 2: like the VP of the union because like, yeah, transferms

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Speaker 2: do be organizing, do we do do this?

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Speaker 4: And that the truth.

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Speaker 2: But then the second thing, and you were talking about this,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, the magazines are already understaffed and they're just

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Speaker 2: destroying them, you know, And this is the thing that

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Speaker 2: I can say which is like, this is something we

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Speaker 2: saw from Jeff Bezos, right when when Jeff Bezos sort

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Speaker 2: of like took control of the Washington Post and then

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Speaker 2: gradually sort of purged their staff, and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: has this whole thing now about how, oh we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to be pro free market and pro individual liberties, which

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Speaker 2: does not include trans writes. You know, if you look

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Speaker 2: at what happened to the Washington Post's subscriber account, it's

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Speaker 2: like nothing, It's like the paper is dying. It's effectively

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Speaker 2: just like it's not like an actual functional, like profit

404
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Speaker 2: making thing anymore. Like it's it's just the sort of

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Speaker 2: propaganda vanity outlet of a billionaire. And that's you know,

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Speaker 2: that's probably what's going to happen to CBS, is that

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Speaker 2: it's going to just get sort of annihilate, stripped down,

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Speaker 2: because these people don't want a functioning media. They don't

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Speaker 2: give a shit if these things actually work, because what

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Speaker 2: what they're trying to do right now is accumulate raw,

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Speaker 2: accumulate just raw power and attempt to do raw sort

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Speaker 2: of narrative and media control in order to stay in power.

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Speaker 2: And it's not working because everyone still hates them, even

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Speaker 2: though they bought all the newspapers. Everyone is like, these

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Speaker 2: people suck, like but this is that we run into

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Speaker 2: with union stuff all the time, which is like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of bosses who would rather their

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Speaker 2: own company be nonfunctional, you know, their workers have any

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Speaker 2: voice in it. And especially now in this political moment

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Speaker 2: in which oh, hey, look the fascists are trying to

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Speaker 2: seize control of the media, that becomes increasingly more and

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Speaker 2: more an option of just fuck it, will just like

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Speaker 2: get handouts from like the tech fascists forever, and in

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Speaker 2: exchange for that, will publish whatever propaganda garbage they want

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Speaker 2: to spit out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I would also say, like, I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure get about across the entire company. Although I believe

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Speaker 5: it was one of the better traffic stories that Conde

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Speaker 5: Nast all year, but one of the most certainly one

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Speaker 5: of the most like trafficked teen Vogue stories in this

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Speaker 5: past year, was like out of their politics section. It

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Speaker 5: was the Vivian Wilson Elon Musk's Transdoughter cover story, really

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Speaker 5: really good, an amazing piece of journalism and also a

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Speaker 5: piece like super viral, and I'm sure made a ton

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Speaker 5: of money for the company. Yeah, and so one would think,

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Speaker 5: you know, looking at like the trends of the past,

437
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 5: that if that was going to inform anything, like the

438
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 5: company would actually say, like more politics coverage, like more

439
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 5: progressive coverage out of teen Vogue, and like.

440
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 2: I remember, I don't have the exact numbers on me

441
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 2: because I'm a hack and of fraud. But if it

442
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: wasn't a hack and a fraud, I would have the

443
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: exact numbers from the coverage of like the increase in

444
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 2: both revenue generation and in like readership that teen Vogue

445
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 2: underwent once they started doing politic stuff onto the first

446
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: show administration. And now you're getting rid of that for

447
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 2: what are clearly business reasons and are clearly, very very

448
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: clearly not related to the fact that there is a

449
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: bunch of a bunch of political pressure from a bunch

450
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: of fascists to run the government.

451
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 3: Now.

452
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, obviously we don't have like perfect insight

453
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 5: into what's going on behind closed doors at Conde Nast,

454
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 5: but I can't say that. We had a diversity committee

455
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 5: meeting with our joint union management diversity committee a week

456
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 5: before all of this went down, and they told us

457
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 5: that they were you know, paraphrasing here, but management said

458
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 5: that they are actively trying to avoid the attention and

459
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 5: the eyre of the Trump administration, which at the time

460
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 5: definitely raised some eyebrows and I think led to the

461
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 5: big response last week of like.

462
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, oh.

463
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 5: By actively avoid the attention of the Trump administration, you

464
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 5: meant just like get rid of the parts of the

465
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 5: company that are like, yeah, hostile towards it, and I

466
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 5: mean kind of too, like the good business of progressive coverage.

467
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 5: I've covered a lot of beats in my time of

468
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 5: bon Epetite, but there was a period where I was

469
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 5: covering like the Starbucks Workers United fight pretty closely, a

470
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 5: lot of articles about that in my back pocket.

471
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 4: Those generally did really well.

472
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 5: Actually, one of the first times I faced like big

473
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 5: right wing backlash online was covering the like Dylan mulvaney

474
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 5: bud light protests, which I used as an opportunity to

475
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 5: write about the like the cores light boycotts of like

476
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 5: the West Coast queer worker movement and like kind of

477
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 5: the birth of the like gay labor movement. One of

478
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 5: my best trafficks of all time stories I wrote about

479
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 5: the like why the watermelon symbol became like such a

480
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 5: big kind of like rally and cry and like Palestine

481
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 5: and organizing over the past few years. Again massive traffic

482
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: winner for the company. But every time, you know, we

483
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 5: get into these meetings with management or every time we

484
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 5: like hear about the direction that the company is shifting

485
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 5: or the coverage is shifting, it always seems away from

486
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 5: those kind of hot button issues that like there's clearly

487
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 5: an appetite for stories about and instead towards well whatever

488
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 5: it's towards, you know.

489
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, and you can look at this

490
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: like there's been a whole bunch of there was a

491
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 2: story recently about doctor Oz like pivoting his whole thing

492
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: into doing like a right wing like media grift, and

493
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: nobody's watching it. Like the average episode of it could

494
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: happened here absolutely annihilates like just like like orders of

495
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: magnitude better than like no, I think it was doctor

496
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: phil Yeah it was doctor Phil.

497
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 3: Who does that?

498
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Look they're like the same guy, Like, wow, that's not

499
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: that that's slightly unfair to doctor os. Well, yeah, doctor

500
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: Philip did this, like did the right wing pivot, And

501
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: like nobody's listening to the show. It's like, no one

502
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: this is like one of the most famous people in

503
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: the United States getting annihilated by like Mia and the

504
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: trendy crew, like.

505
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: It could happen here, like.

506
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you know, and yeah, like there is this

507
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: like massive demand for this stuff as like people increasing

508
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: me realize that, oh yeah, wait, hold on, we're getting

509
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 2: every single person like in the country is like almost

510
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: individually getting screwed over by the Trump administration. He's like

511
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 2: individually micro targeting every single part of his base and

512
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 2: pissing them off. Like there was a whole farmer soy thing, right,

513
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: and like he's like, I guess tend this negotiates we

514
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: being sales now. But like, you know, you can look

515
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: at like so he was fighting this whole war with

516
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: his entire farming base and then he immediately turned around

517
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: from there and went to fight the cattle ranchers. It's

518
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: like there's so much appetite for any critique of this

519
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: because it's so obviously just like malignant and narcissistically violent,

520
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 2: and all of these companies that are like you know,

521
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 2: like like this has always been the problem with the

522
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: free presses that like the US does don't have a

523
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: free press. The US is a capitalist press, and so

524
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, you can just buy them or apply enough

525
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: political pressure and they will fall in line.

526
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 3: And that's like what they're doing here.

527
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: So what you're saying is we need a left wing

528
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 4: Joe Rogan.

529
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna become the joker.

530
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 4: Now, of course.

531
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 5: I mean I'll also say, like I became an organizer

532
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 5: in the News Guild for a lot of reasons, right,

533
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 5: Like Bonapatia was my first job out of college, and

534
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 5: I was really involved covering the dining workers organizing at

535
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 5: my undergrad school, so that was like definitely my introduction there.

536
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: But at the same time, like when I got into

537
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 5: the workplace, I kind of real that media unions are

538
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: maybe one of the only things that will keep the media,

539
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 5: at least as currently exists, alive until we can come

540
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 5: up with like some other model that is like more sustainable,

541
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 5: because I mean, like I look at a company like

542
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 5: Conde Nast and you have this like very well compensated,

543
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 5: very like large cast of managers and middle managers yep,

544
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 5: and then you have this like massive body of people

545
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 5: actually producing the magazines, actually making like doing the work

546
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 5: of the journalism and the culture reporting and the video

547
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 5: making and so on. And so on, And you know,

548
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 5: one of those groups is constantly subject to layoffs, one

549
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: of those groups is constantly being made to say work

550
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 5: over time and maybe being told not to build for

551
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 5: as much over time as they're being made to work.

552
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 5: And one of those groups is being extremely well compensated

553
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 5: and has seemingly incredible job security.

554
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, like all all of the resources are being sucked

555
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: out by a combination of like these venture capitalist dipses

556
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: at the top and then all of these fucking like

557
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: middle miror management bureaucrats like who do not right.

558
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 5: And the thing that slows that down is like workers

559
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 5: having a say in the media, you know, like the

560
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 5: people who actually can produce the work, like being able

561
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 5: to say and these are the circumstances under which the

562
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 5: work is going to be produced. I mean, I think

563
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 5: it's no surprise that, like if you look at a

564
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 5: publication like hell Gate or like Defector or like Aftermath

565
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 5: and four or four, and all of these like worker

566
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 5: co ops that are popping up kind of across the

567
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 5: media ecosystem, like their worker owns, and they have this

568
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 5: very kind of flat like payment structure where everybody is

569
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: making around the same amount, like everybody has a say

570
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 5: in the way that the workplace functions, and like these

571
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 5: appear at least to me to be some of the

572
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: most like stable media like organizations that are out there

573
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 5: right now. And all that tells me is that like

574
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 5: workplace democracy, I mean in like the truest sense of

575
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 5: the word, you know, like workplace democracy as it is

576
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 5: earned by like worker organizations, union's, worker co ops, whatever

577
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 5: they might be, is the thing that's going to keep

578
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 5: the media afloat. Like that is the model that is

579
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 5: like sustainable in the long run. So I think that's

580
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: one of the reasons that having like a strong and

581
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 5: active Conde Nasty union, though management probably wouldn't agree, at

582
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 5: least explicitly, it's like one of the things that can

583
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 5: keep Conde Nast alive for as long as possible. Like

584
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 5: you know, again, they would probably loath to admit this,

585
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 5: but like an organization like the Conde Nast union can

586
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 5: only exist as long as an organization like Conde Nast exists,

587
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 5: their fates are kind of tied to one another.

588
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: Well, okay, this is we're doing the incredibly esoteric via

589
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: meta union three.

590
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 3: There's two versions of looking at this one.

591
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: Okay, this is the version where yeah, the Kandy NASA

592
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: union is structurally dependent on the existence of Conde Nast,

593
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: and this means that the power of the union is

594
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: based on its ability to bring people.

595
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 3: Back to work.

596
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: However, come up, there is a second one you could

597
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: theoretically have. You could theoretically have the Conde Nass union

598
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: without Conde Nast, where we have CNT and it we've

599
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 2: taken it over, we're running it now. We are just

600
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 2: now the union. And you know, and the thing, the

601
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: thing I will say about that, and this is always

602
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: this has always been the advantage of co ops is that,

603
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: like you are immediately from the ground up, you're going

604
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: to have a kind of efficiency advantage because there is

605
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: not an entire middle layer. Like because obviously, like there

606
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: are like producers who do a bunch of work, like

607
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 2: my boss Sophie.

608
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 3: Like if we didn't have Sophie, none of this.

609
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: Would work, right, Yeah, there's also a bunch of other

610
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: people who have the same title who do nothing. And

611
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: that's not even true. If they did nothing, it would

612
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: be better. They interfere with everything constantly and get pay

613
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: an exhordinary large amount of money to make everything work worse,

614
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: and you don't have to have that entire bureaucratic layer,

615
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: like the layer of middle management. And this has always

616
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: been the massive just efficiency advantage that you have when

617
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: workers running their own shit is that you don't have

618
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: to have those people and the coordination that needs to

619
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: be done. Okay, you have people doing the coordination. You

620
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: don't have fifteen layers of dipshits whose job it is

621
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: to run around making your job harder. This has been

622
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: me talking about the organizational advantages of anarchy.

623
00:28:53,960 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 5: It's great, Sorry, now you're fine. I mean, I will

624
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 5: is like it's an interesting thing about Conde Nast and

625
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 5: like a lot of I think these media conglomerates, it

626
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 5: is like, you know, other than like when I am

627
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: a member of the Conde Nasty union, and like I

628
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 5: don't really interact with people who work elsewhere at Conde Nast,

629
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 5: Like yeah, I interact with the people at my magazine

630
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 5: and like the people at Bon Appetite and I like

631
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 5: generally get along great. I have a really, really awesome

632
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 5: relationship with my manager. I have a lot of admiration

633
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 5: for him and.

634
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 4: What he does.

635
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 5: I think he's like the same way that you talk

636
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 5: about Sophie. I think he's like really great at his job.

637
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: I like have a good relationship with our editor in chief.

638
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: I have a lot of respect for her as well.

639
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 5: We have a really really solid system going where we

640
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 5: are like able to make this food magazine every month

641
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 5: and be able to keep this website online and able

642
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 5: to make content that we're all like, you know, recipes

643
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 5: and stories that we're all really really proud of. And

644
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 5: then at the same time we were kind of subject

645
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 5: to this like kind of bigger whatever media machine that's

646
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 5: like kind of moving around ahead or above us, and

647
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 5: also moving around like again with just like so little transparency.

648
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 5: Like yeah, going back to the action on Wednesday the fifth,

649
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 5: we have tried to have meetings with Stan, Like the

650
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 5: executive that we talked to in the hallway, the executive

651
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 5: that we marched on. We have tried to have meetings

652
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 5: with him so many times in so many different ways.

653
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: We have emailed him questions, not gotten responses. We have

654
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 5: invited him to like town halls, not gotten responses. We

655
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 5: invited him to meet with our diversity committee and labor

656
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: relations got mad at us fore seeing him.

657
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: On the email.

658
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 3: God.

659
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 5: Historically, like that kind of level of the company has

660
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 5: been extremely averse to interacting with its workers to like

661
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 5: answering basic questions, which is why, like when you look

662
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 5: at you know, there's a video out there of the interaction,

663
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 5: Like this is why we have to march on our

664
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 5: bosses like this, because there's literally no other way to

665
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 5: get a single answer out of them, because they kind

666
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 5: of I mean they exist on this other floor of

667
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: the company altogether, Like so, I don't know, it's it's

668
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 5: very frustrating. It's frustrating to like kind of exist in

669
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 5: this like dual system of like, well, we have a

670
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 5: magazine that we are operating like very effectively on our own,

671
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 5: and yet there's this entire thing above it that is

672
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 5: making these decisions about how it ought to function and

673
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 5: like what it ought to be doing.

674
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who don't know what it does because totally

675
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: they're not there, Like they have absolutely no idea how

676
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: your production actually functions.

677
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: I would be surprised if the man who fired me

678
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 5: knew what my job was.

679
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely not.

680
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: All the old critiques of like the Soviet system, we're like, oh,

681
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: there's just this out of touch bureaucraft three hundred miles

682
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: away making production decisions.

683
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: Blah blah, blah blah blah. It's like, oh, yeah, no, that's.

684
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: Actually just like how your job works is some suit

685
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: in like another building is like, oh, your jobs are

686
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: all replaceable. Oh you can you can do this with

687
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: like twenty percent less staff. Oh I don't even know

688
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: what you do, but we're firing you because we hate

689
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: you specifically.

690
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: Like it's just a terrible way for the world to run.

691
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

692
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 5: And I mean we have like these models of like

693
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 5: what successful workplaces can look like, you know, like places

694
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 5: with militant unions that like actually work, like actually give

695
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 5: workers to say and what their conditions should be and

696
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: what their conditions are, places that have gotten rid of

697
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 5: the boss altogether, and like you know again those worker

698
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 5: co ops that I listed, Like, there are these functional

699
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 5: models of what the future of media can look like.

700
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 5: And this is the thing that I say all the time.

701
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 5: It is like the reason that I'm excited about being

702
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 5: a member of the News Guild, the reason I got

703
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 5: involved in organizing in the first place, is like I

704
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 5: think there is a future of media, Like I think

705
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 5: there is a way that like, you know, people like

706
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 5: you and people like me, like people who write and

707
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 5: tell stories and like are interested in like talking to

708
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 5: people and getting their stories out there. I think there

709
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 5: are sustainable ways that we can do that, And I

710
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 5: think the people who know how to do like the

711
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 5: sustainable future of this thing are the people who are

712
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: making the product in the first place. Yeah, Like we

713
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: are the ones with vision, Like we are the ones

714
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 5: who know how to make something that can continue to

715
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 5: exist sustainably, something that can like even under the capitalists

716
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 5: like framework, Like something that can make money, something that

717
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 5: can be profitable. A lot of the great journalists I

718
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 5: know are like actually very interested in and very very

719
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 5: good at making work that like generates quite a bit

720
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 5: of revenue. And I don't think that's a particularly bad thing.

721
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 5: Like they know how to do this in a way

722
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 5: that is sustainable, in a way that keeps readers excited

723
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 5: and engaged in like willing to like pitch in in

724
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 5: their own ways. The problem is that the people who

725
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 5: seem to have that know how, the people who make

726
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 5: the thing and the people who know how to keep

727
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 5: making the thing, and the people who are making the

728
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 5: decisions like aren't the same people.

729
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

730
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 5: And the way that you fix that divide, like is

731
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 5: by demanding a seat at the table is by demanding

732
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 5: the people who are making those decisions actually do listen

733
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 5: to you, and then demanding that they actually follow through

734
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: on the obligation or the things that they say they're

735
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: going to do. One of the really frustrating things about

736
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 5: my termination is like they're saying that I was like

737
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 5: too aggressive and was harassing the chief people officer. Again,

738
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 5: there's a video I think is extremely exonerating.

739
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: Also, oh wow, the trends woman's being too aggressive? Wow?

740
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: Wow crazy one day they're going to develop a second joke.

741
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: Wow anything now? No, I know.

742
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 5: Actually one thing some like Chud on the internet who

743
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 5: was like trying to make fun of me, is that

744
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 5: I was wearing a wig out like to stay for

745
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 5: the record, I don't wear a wig.

746
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 4: This is my hair. I grew it myself. It's took

747
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 4: a while, thank you. I agree.

748
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 5: Although one of my friends told me that I have

749
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 5: turf bangs the other day, which I really actually it

750
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 5: was the day that I got fired, come to think

751
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 5: of it, because before they knew to be fair. But no,

752
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 5: I know, sorry, what was I saying before that?

753
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: I The last time I got owned that hard was

754
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: what Bob called me a talking head.

755
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: So you know it happens. Sometimes you get absolutely obliterated.

756
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 4: But I love that band.

757
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: It's good bad.

758
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 5: But if the company like actually believed that I was,

759
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 5: you know, being too aggressive or like committing I think

760
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 5: the words that they used are like gross misconduct, Like

761
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 5: I know, we have just caused protections in our contract

762
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 5: that include like an explicit procedure that you're supposed to

763
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 5: go through for gross miss conduct. Like if the the

764
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: company was following the contract, if they felt the obligation

765
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 5: to do so, what should have happened is they shouldn't

766
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 5: have let me finished the rest of my work day. Instead,

767
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 5: I should have been escorted out of the building by security.

768
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 5: I should have been placed on a leave. There should

769
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 5: have been an investigation with like time for me and

770
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 5: the union to comment, and then a decision should have

771
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 5: came out. And the entire time that should have been happening,

772
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 5: I should have been paid. And like if that sounds greedy, okay,

773
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 5: the company agreed to it, like they didn't have to

774
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 5: sign the contract, but they did. But this is another

775
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 5: like concerning trend that we're seeing right now with like

776
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 5: you know, the gutted NLRB and like the kind of yeah,

777
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 5: you know, shirking of NLRA like responsibilities from companies is

778
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 5: like companies are like straight up gas lighting workers not

779
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 5: things that are in the contracts that they agreed to.

780
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 5: They are like pointing to the contract and saying that

781
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 5: it says things that it doesn't say, or that it

782
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 5: doesn't say things that are like right there for you

783
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 5: and clearing English right before your eyes. Actually, another time

784
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 5: that we tried to talk to Stan this year was

785
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 5: so we're based out of New York, predominantly we have

786
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 5: remote workers across the country. Although we were told just

787
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 5: about everybody at the comp I need to start coming

788
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 5: into the New York offices four days a week. There's

789
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 5: a section of our contract that says that under a

790
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 5: declared state of emergency, workers can stay home. Well, this

791
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 5: summer in New York, listeners may remember, we had a

792
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 5: really massive, like terrible heat wave, like temperatures up in

793
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 5: the one hundreds every day, like going into the subway stations,

794
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 5: and that week I remember feeling like I was baking.

795
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 5: During the declared state of emergency, which again the contract

796
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 5: says workers do not have to come into the office.

797
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 5: The company said, we don't care, you have to come

798
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 5: into the office paraphrasing those aren't there exact words, but

799
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 5: they're not too far off. And again we said, okay,

800
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 5: but the contract says under a declared state of emergency,

801
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 5: we don't have to come into the office. And they

802
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 5: said you have to come into the office four days

803
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 5: a week, no exceptions. And it is maddening. I mean, no,

804
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 5: that's life threatening, Like, oh, I mean yeah, absolutely, And

805
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 5: I will say, like, you know, I've been at the

806
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 5: company five years. That makes me a bit of a

807
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 5: long hauler. Like we have people who have been at

808
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 5: the company for like fifteen twenty years. Like there are

809
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 5: people who are like near retirement age standing on a

810
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 5: subway platform. Again, it's New York City. People aren't really

811
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 5: in air conditioned cars driving to work. Like there are

812
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 5: people for whom, like at all ages standing on a

813
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 5: subway platform in that kind of heat is a really

814
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 5: life threatening and like really dangerous thing to demand people do.

815
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is like one of the things that.

816
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 5: We were thinking about when we like fought for that

817
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 5: contract language and like one of the things that we

818
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 5: were thinking about when we were like nearly ready, like

819
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 5: in fact that we were ready to go on strike. Yeah,

820
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 5: and like disrupt the net Gala in May of twenty

821
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 5: twenty four. Like, that is one of the things that

822
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 5: we were thinking about when we drafted that, and one

823
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 5: of the things we were really excited that the company

824
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 5: agreed to give us when we won our contract. And

825
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 5: so for them to immediately just say, oh, just kidding, well,

826
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 5: oh well, now if we file a grievance, it might

827
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 5: take like months directify, well, just kidding, those rights that

828
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 5: we gave you, they don't exist anymore. Sorry. And again

829
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 5: it is like clear, easy to understand language that they

830
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 5: are somehow willing to just say, like the contract doesn't

831
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 5: say what it says.

832
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I mean, you know, there's like the

833
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: one here in like companies have always like not followed contracts.

834
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: It's always been like, Okay, if you want your contract

835
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 2: to do what it says it does, you have to force.

836
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 3: Them to do it.

837
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, like the thing that it

838
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: reminds me of is like one of the things happened

839
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: with the Trump administration. Whenever talking about them pissing off

840
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 2: their bases, there's been a bunch of unions that they've

841
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: just unilaterally been this is said, this is national security.

842
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: We don't recognize your contract anymore. So for example, like

843
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: the the funny version of is they did this at

844
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 2: a prison guard union, which is hilarious.

845
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I don't know you guys. You guys

846
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 3: shat in your own bed.

847
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: Now you have to lie in it, Like I don't

848
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 2: know what to tell you, but like yeah, but like

849
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: you know, the national government has been doing this to

850
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: a bunch of unions. Is they've just been going totally,

851
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: we know that we don't have to follow this contract anymore.

852
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: It's national security and that's the future that all of

853
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: these people want and that they're like, you know, this

854
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: is part of what they're fighting for. This is part

855
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: of that fight, is that they want to fight where

856
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: contract union contracts don't exist and they could just do

857
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: whatever they want to anyone.

858
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 5: I mean, there's also like a clear line you can

859
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 5: draw from say like like the Reagan era and the

860
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 5: like air traffic controller unions strike break, and then like

861
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 5: the way that from like the federal government unions, and

862
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: like the way that the federal government treats its unions

863
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,959
Speaker 5: that like basically the rest of the American labor movement

864
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 5: and rather the management side responses to the American labor

865
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 5: movement generally flow.

866
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, is there anything else that you want to

867
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: make sure that people know.

868
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, in the coming days and weeks, the

869
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 5: union is planning a lot to fight back against the company.

870
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that said. One of the things that we

871
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 5: know most about media organizations generally is that they are

872
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: very concerned about public pressure and they are very concerned

873
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 5: about public image. This is like APR obsessed industry for

874
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 5: better and for worse. So we are hoping that like

875
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 5: readers and you know, fans and followers will keep the

876
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 5: pressure up against Conde Nast to show like employers like

877
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 5: them that like, we will not stand for this. We

878
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 5: have an Action Network petition up right now that we

879
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 5: are going to keep collecting signatures for that we hope

880
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 5: to deliver to management soon depending on once it comes out.

881
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 5: I mean, we'll be collecting signatures regardless, and that is

882
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 5: also one of the best ways signing on to that.

883
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 5: We'll get you out dates for other ways that you can,

884
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 5: you know, support us from the outside. But otherwise, I mean,

885
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 5: we've got a lot of fighting to do, We've got

886
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 5: a lot of organizing to do. I certainly don't think

887
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 5: my days at Conde Naster over, I expect that, like

888
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 5: however long it takes for the law of shakeout, like

889
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 5: I hope to be reinstated, as do the other like

890
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 5: three terminated employees. I also am certain that like we

891
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 5: will be able to win justice for ourselves and the

892
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 5: other people who were like illegally retaliatorally disciplined following the action.

893
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 5: And I also think that this is nowhere near the

894
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 5: last action that Conde Nast upper management should expect. If

895
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 5: anything like this is just showing us that if we

896
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 5: want our contract to be enforced, if we want the

897
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 5: rights that they said that they would give us, we

898
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 5: are going to have to keep holding them to account

899
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 5: and we are going to have to keep fighting for them.

900
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: Trying to figure out whether or not I can get

901
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: away with saying you have sown the wind and now

902
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: the whirlwind.

903
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 5: Oh god, you have so own the bond appetite, and

904
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 5: now you will get the I can't finish that.

905
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: You've sewed the butt appetite. Now you'll get teen votes to.

906
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 5: You have sewn the bond and now you'll get the appetite.

907
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean anything, that's on anything.

908
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: You know, Look, it's a struggling time for the whole industry. Yeah,

909
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: and if people want to find you, do you want

910
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: to be found a n B? If people want to

911
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: find you, where can they find your work?

912
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

913
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 5: I plan to keep writing and doing journalism for the

914
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 5: however long I can allowed to keep doing that. So

915
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: I'm on basically every website as at Goodbye Almah, including

916
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 5: the Evil ones sadly. I also I co edit a

917
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 5: literary magazine with my friend Joyce. That's called Picnic Magazine.

918
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 5: It's very cool. It's all work by trans contributors. We

919
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 5: are predominantly a print first publication. You can find us

920
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 5: at picnicmag on Instagram. We're also on Blue Sky. I

921
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 5: should have prepared our at but I'm sure I can

922
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 5: send that to you afterwards.

923
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we'll put it in that, We'll put it

924
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: in the station.

925
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 5: And yeah, we are available in a few bookstores in

926
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 5: big cities across the country. We also have a you

927
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 5: can download our PDF and a pay what you want

928
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 5: kind of way. We have a second issue coming soon.

929
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 5: Although it turns out making a magazine with just two

930
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 5: trans women and it's really difficult, So yeah.

931
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: Check that out. It's all fiction.

932
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 5: Criticism and poetry by trans contributors and yeah, follow me

933
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 5: at Goodbye Alma Online.

934
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

935
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: If you want actual news that's fit to print, you're

936
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: going to have to fight for it.

937
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: Amen to that says there.

938
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

939
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

940
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

941
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

942
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: Listen to podcasts.

943
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it Could Happen are

944
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.