WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra-Joe Lonsdale

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast bringing you one

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<v Speaker 1>of our favorite interviews from the week. This week, we're

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<v Speaker 1>catching up with Joe Lonsdale. We caught him on a

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<v Speaker 1>very timely day, the day that palant Here, the company

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<v Speaker 1>he co founded when he was twenty one years old,

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<v Speaker 1>went public on the New York Stock Exchange. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>They've been working on this for seventeen years. The stock

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<v Speaker 1>which went public via a direct listing on the New

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<v Speaker 1>York Stock Exchange. It was up about thirty one percent,

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<v Speaker 1>Jason in its first day of trading. Joe Man, We

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<v Speaker 1>have gone to him several times. This is a company

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<v Speaker 1>co founded with tech billionaire Peter Teal, but it's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>We love to talk to him about what they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of data mining, but also where tech is

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<v Speaker 1>going in the future. Want companies that you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's had a really strong last few years that

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<v Speaker 1>it probably wasn't ready to be a public company. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>ten years ago, maybe you could have got out in

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<v Speaker 1>fourteene or fifteen. But I'm you know, I'm kind of

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<v Speaker 1>glad a weighted because it's been such a strong last

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<v Speaker 1>few years. It's really come into its own and it's

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<v Speaker 1>a great time for its bout you're thirty eight. I

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<v Speaker 1>just Adducent a message. I'm like, he's thirty eight. He

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<v Speaker 1>started this when he was twenty one, and this isn't

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<v Speaker 1>your first time at the rodeo. I mean, like this,

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<v Speaker 1>it's pretty amazing. Um data and the use of data.

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<v Speaker 1>We have more than we've ever thought, and there's more

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<v Speaker 1>coming and it can just be a data dump or

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<v Speaker 1>it can be data put to use. And I do

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<v Speaker 1>think about specially Joe in light of the pandemic, like

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<v Speaker 1>how do you guys at Palentin or think about it

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<v Speaker 1>and how data can help us with some of these

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<v Speaker 1>really big problems facing us, whether it's the pandemic, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's climate change, whether it's inequalities. No, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>this man stiges concept from computer science from the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixties called man machine symbiosis, and the idea is there's

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<v Speaker 1>things that people are better at, and there's things the

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<v Speaker 1>computers are better app and the question is how you

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<v Speaker 1>augment people, how you how you let people still do

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<v Speaker 1>what they're the best at, well, the computers augmenting them.

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<v Speaker 1>And in order to do that, when you have data

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<v Speaker 1>from everywhere, you have to bring that data together and

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<v Speaker 1>you have to put it into an environment where where

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's been a form that's how the person is

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about the data, and then less people delve into

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<v Speaker 1>it intuitively and then collaborate around the data intuitaly. But

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<v Speaker 1>you're really creating these information environments and in your right

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<v Speaker 1>for all these hard problems, you need these information environments.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to access I guess all that data was

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<v Speaker 1>in your brain, so it can't possibly be you gotta

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<v Speaker 1>do the next best thing and expose it the right

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<v Speaker 1>way altogether, which is a very hard technology problems. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so we'll have you solved it. We've done well well.

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<v Speaker 1>You know here palace here is used by by a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of governments and a lot of the biggest corporations

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<v Speaker 1>around the world to solve their hardest problems. It's pounds here.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. When the when the pandemic struck, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>over thirty five countries turned to pounds here to immediately

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<v Speaker 1>create for them a common operating picture that brought data

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<v Speaker 1>together from hundreds of sources and did securely in a

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<v Speaker 1>way to protected civil liberties protected you know, privacy. You

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<v Speaker 1>only do what you're allowed to see, but then expose

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<v Speaker 1>that data so leaders could make decisions. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think all of us agree with every decision

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<v Speaker 1>every leaders made, but it was striking in country. It

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<v Speaker 1>was talent here that they turned to to give that

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<v Speaker 1>information so they could make decisions. So Joe, you went

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<v Speaker 1>exactly where I wanted to go next, which was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>work with governments and work with the private sector. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>there has been and you know this better than I do,

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<v Speaker 1>controversy around um this notion of data and its use

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<v Speaker 1>in surveillance quote unquote, at least that's how it's been positioned.

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<v Speaker 1>Help us understand sort of strip out all the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>rhetoric and everything around that, and help us understand are

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<v Speaker 1>their misconceptions out there around what Palatier does and how

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<v Speaker 1>it's used by governments. Of course, you know, they're One

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<v Speaker 1>of the things I like is that if you're not

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<v Speaker 1>doing anything important, is probably not gonna be anybody angry

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<v Speaker 1>with you. And you know, and in this case, what

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<v Speaker 1>you have before we started Palnce here We watched to

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<v Speaker 1>the government and they had spent tens of billions of

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<v Speaker 1>dollars year gathering data, and they had all sources of

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<v Speaker 1>these giant I T services projects that were failed, and

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<v Speaker 1>we said, can we build a single project of single

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<v Speaker 1>platform that rather than have to build all these actually

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<v Speaker 1>services went off and take years and take hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>millions of billions of dollars, can we do something that

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<v Speaker 1>would work out of box to do this well during

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<v Speaker 1>the data while enforcing the policy. And we actually, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>build Palance here in a way to go above and beyond.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only is it the greatest privacy engine in the world,

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<v Speaker 1>but it has full auditorial automatically watches watchers, anyone involved

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<v Speaker 1>can see how people are using the data. That's that

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<v Speaker 1>The fair we had is that if you didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>something like palentce here ben responding, you know, the terrors

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<v Speaker 1>and it's the seventeen years ago, So that was what

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<v Speaker 1>was on our minds and responding to that, you could

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<v Speaker 1>actually become more like your enemy. That's what happens in warfare,

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<v Speaker 1>is you become more like your enemy. In this case,

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<v Speaker 1>it would have meant transforming our society unacceptably in giving

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<v Speaker 1>out liberties. So we didn't want to have to give up.

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<v Speaker 1>And so the the idea is that you had have

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<v Speaker 1>a system in place to make sure it's enforcing the rules,

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure whatever the policy is that steps up

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<v Speaker 1>what's going to be allowed. And you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>always agree with what the policy is in the US

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<v Speaker 1>or allied countries, but but I but I do agree

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<v Speaker 1>that it's a good thing to help America use the

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<v Speaker 1>data it's allowed to use and to enforce the policy

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<v Speaker 1>as we have. So when it comes to something like TikTok,

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<v Speaker 1>then it sounds like you're pretty clear that maybe the

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<v Speaker 1>U S is right in terms of having concerns about

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<v Speaker 1>that type of a company. You know, it's been told

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<v Speaker 1>me very clearly more than a decade ago and from

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<v Speaker 1>my other spork and technology that I was not welcomed

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<v Speaker 1>in China. It's the Chinese government was not going to

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<v Speaker 1>allow big data platforms of any sort that are not

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<v Speaker 1>owned by Chinese to operate and dominate there. They're definitely

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna allow media platforms. They're definitely senor that. So

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<v Speaker 1>if if they're censoring up like giving them giving a

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<v Speaker 1>CCP access to tend a million of Americans uncensored display them. However,

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<v Speaker 1>the CCP wants I can see why geopolitically that would

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<v Speaker 1>be a bad situation to be in. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk more about Silicon Valley and maybe as a way

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<v Speaker 1>to get there, what does this listing and this sort

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<v Speaker 1>of catalytic moment or this latest moment of the journey

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<v Speaker 1>of Palenteer, what does that tell us about Silicon Valley today,

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<v Speaker 1>the role of technology today here in because I gotta

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<v Speaker 1>tell you, man, it's a funky time right now. It

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<v Speaker 1>is that it is. It is a strange time we're

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<v Speaker 1>living in. And you know, if you think, what does

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<v Speaker 1>it tell us about what's going on? Well, technology, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a part of the world. It's working, and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>part of the world. There is a lot of confidence,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more than when we saw on TV last night.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's a fist. It's a part of the world

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<v Speaker 1>where where you actually see growth, you actually see optimistic version,

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<v Speaker 1>vision in the future of what's possible and and and

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<v Speaker 1>you know that's why things value is highly it is

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of areas right now. Well, when you

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<v Speaker 1>look at some of the big macro trends that are

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<v Speaker 1>going on, in technology. Obviously, big data, as evidence by Palenteer,

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<v Speaker 1>is something you're obviously really into. But what else do

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<v Speaker 1>you find kind of interesting, whether it is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>autonomous vehicles, whether it's space exploration, or whether it's green

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<v Speaker 1>technology that's going to figure out a way to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>protect our environment. What else is it that you find

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<v Speaker 1>it's really kind of interesting on our on your radar,

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<v Speaker 1>and that you think Joe is going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>bigger part of our world as well as our economy

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<v Speaker 1>going forward and our technical potentially. Yeah, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>there's there, there's a lot of these turns. The trend

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<v Speaker 1>that really Palace here etenomizes is the fact that we

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot more information than we ever had before.

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<v Speaker 1>But the only way we're going to use that information

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<v Speaker 1>well is to make it accessible and understandable to people.

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<v Speaker 1>So what what what the trend Palunce here is about,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of other companies were involved in as well,

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<v Speaker 1>is these is these industries and these parts of the

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<v Speaker 1>world only work right when we make sure that people

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<v Speaker 1>are only through the day they're allowed to see, but

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<v Speaker 1>they see it and understanding they can bring it together

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<v Speaker 1>to lots of sources and they can act on it

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<v Speaker 1>to making the industries work better. And that's that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking about health care and making healthcare more efficient,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, there's so much stuff we could do,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, to make healthcare costs half as much well

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<v Speaker 1>delivering better results. And you know, some of those things

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<v Speaker 1>are things we have to do policy wise, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>and and and get rid of coronism and get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of special interests. But a lot of those things are

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<v Speaker 1>our technology problems. We need to get in there and

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<v Speaker 1>we need to solve. And this is you know that

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of things in that area. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm personally thinking about a lot of other areas who

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<v Speaker 1>actually want to be a name one more. It might

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<v Speaker 1>sound crazy, but I think Elon's a right about the tunnels.

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<v Speaker 1>I think tunnels can save us trillions of dollars for

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<v Speaker 1>our economy in terms of being making all the cities

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<v Speaker 1>accessible and you can live really cheaply near by them.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's all sorts of cool things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's there's a lot stuff we could do. But

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<v Speaker 1>the data seam is what Pounder was about today. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>let me ask you something coming on the heels of

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<v Speaker 1>the debate, and we know, um, your other co founder,

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Teal has been a backer President Trump and Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump specifically. When you think about politics, when you think

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<v Speaker 1>about the parties, doesn't matter to you who's in office,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's on a regulatory front or whether it's on

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<v Speaker 1>someone who has the vision to think about kind of

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<v Speaker 1>where we need to go as a nation, because if

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<v Speaker 1>you look around the world, I mean, I know what

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<v Speaker 1>you said about China, you know, not necessarily wanting you

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<v Speaker 1>guys in there. Are you when you were starting out?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, whether it's a data company or so on.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean they definitely have a long term mission

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to high tech at this time. And

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<v Speaker 1>I just do wonder how you think about politics with

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<v Speaker 1>all of yeah, I mean, I really, I really wish

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<v Speaker 1>there were a lot more computer scientists in Congress. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we have way too many lawyers relatives to the

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<v Speaker 1>proportion or population, and not nearly enough engineers. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think one one advantage China has over US is there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more engineers, uh, you know, running that country.

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't want a country to be run by China.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd prefer to live in a republic and a democracy

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<v Speaker 1>but but yeah, I think we need to elect people

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<v Speaker 1>who understand information, understand how to build the future, unders

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<v Speaker 1>who are part of building the future. And you definitely

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<v Speaker 1>don't see that from either party very much right now.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, Joe, as you go out and look at

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<v Speaker 1>investing in new companies, obviously, you know you sort of

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<v Speaker 1>carry the lessons of Palenteer. You know, over this long

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<v Speaker 1>period of time that that you've been involved and and

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<v Speaker 1>you know your adult life has been spent associated with

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<v Speaker 1>this company. What's the big lesson that you impart whether

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking to a founder, whether you're talking to a

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<v Speaker 1>team of engineers from this specific company which has by

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<v Speaker 1>all means been successful and then gained another mark of

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<v Speaker 1>success today. But what's what's the lesson you impart from it?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I think there's there's there's there's two really

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<v Speaker 1>important lessons you have to say from this. One is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I was at PayPal, and when I was

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<v Speaker 1>at PayPal before Pounds, here we saw a lot of

0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.559
<v Speaker 1>our pier starting companies right U Piers started linked In

0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.679
<v Speaker 1>and Yelp in YouTube and Elon died based X and Test.

0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.880
<v Speaker 1>All these people came from PayPal. There's fifteen of them.

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<v Speaker 1>And and the lesson we learned that we really apply

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<v Speaker 1>to Pounds here is the ones that work really have

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<v Speaker 1>very tough engineering cultures. It's not just like you want

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<v Speaker 1>good engineers. You actually want the best engineers in the world,

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<v Speaker 1>and you want them to feel like it's their company

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<v Speaker 1>and they're running it with you. So so one is

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<v Speaker 1>all about focusing on being very top engineering culture and

0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.000
<v Speaker 1>with engineers helping run the business too, I would say

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<v Speaker 1>is you have to have a mission driven culture. You

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<v Speaker 1>have to have a company where people are really proud

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<v Speaker 1>of what they're doing when they wake up thinking about it,

0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.400
<v Speaker 1>to go to sleep thinking about it. Because this is

0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.839
<v Speaker 1>an important company and they've helped shape its values, they've

0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.040
<v Speaker 1>helped shape its principles and and and it means a

0:10:58.080 --> 0:10:59.360
<v Speaker 1>lot to them. And I think if you have built

0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.400
<v Speaker 1>of those, you have a really good head start as

0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.880
<v Speaker 1>a technologist. Such cool stuff. What do you do to

0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.080
<v Speaker 1>like inspire your younger generation? Just got about forty seconds here,

0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.440
<v Speaker 1>because you've got to think about that, right our future workforce.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm a daughter of an engineer. Jason is a

0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.800
<v Speaker 1>son of an engineer. You know, we kind of grew

0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.520
<v Speaker 1>up with there are lots of engineers everywhere, but it

0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.320
<v Speaker 1>doesn't feel always that way. Today. We have to you know,

0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.400
<v Speaker 1>we just had our third daughters. We have a newborn

0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.120
<v Speaker 1>here at home, so I have three little girls and

0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.080
<v Speaker 1>I would love it if, say, if they get excited

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.160
<v Speaker 1>about math and science and engineering, or obviously you're gonna

0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.679
<v Speaker 1>support them whatever they do. But it's you know, it's

0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.199
<v Speaker 1>it's one of those things where I think people have

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<v Speaker 1>to understand there's an optimistic version of the future and

0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.400
<v Speaker 1>just a vision of the future. There's so much synicism

0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.959
<v Speaker 1>right now. There's so many people who who love to be,

0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, just to take a dystopian view of the world.

0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.080
<v Speaker 1>And I think we did teach people here's the amazing

0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.120
<v Speaker 1>way the world can look, and here's the world is

0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.000
<v Speaker 1>going to look if we embrace optimism, embrace technology and

0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.319
<v Speaker 1>innovation and what's possible. And that was Joe Lunsdale, Palanteer

0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.000
<v Speaker 1>co founder. I think one of the things we loved

0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 1>about him is he said world needs more engineers. If

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.679
<v Speaker 1>you're a lawyer, more engineers, and as children of engineers,

0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.319
<v Speaker 1>I think we can go along with that. You were

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.120
<v Speaker 1>definitely in agreement with that. You've been listening to Bloomberg

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Business Week Extra. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Week Radio that airs Monday through Friday, starting at two

0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.720
<v Speaker 1>pm Wall Street time of Round Blotberg Radio. I'm Jason

0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.559
<v Speaker 1>Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. This is Bloomberg