1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: Buddy Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I'd have to say 2 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: that probably my favorite group would have to be strawberries. 3 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: I love strawberries. I love fresh strawberries, and I haven't 4 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: always loved them. But there's a place that's very near 5 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: and dear to my heart where I came to love strawberries, 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: and it's a little town called Potchitula, Louisiana. Ponchitula has 7 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: just finished up their annual Strawberry Festival. And you know, 8 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Louisiana is renowned for festivals. I mean, you've got everything 9 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: from gumbo Festival, crawfish Festival, a catfish festival, and they've 10 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: been doing it for years and years, and I like 11 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: going to all those things, but for me, there's nothing 12 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: that beats the strawberry Festival. I have seen strawberries there 13 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: the size of apples, and it is a joyous occasion. 14 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: They've got strawberry jam, jelly, They've even got strawberry wine, 15 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: and it is just a fantastic time. You know, you 16 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: got Cajun music, people are dancing around. And today I 17 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: want to talk about a case that unfortunately originated in 18 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: one of my favorite places in Louisiana. Punch Toola Louisiana. 19 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: But the subject here is not going to be about strawberries. 20 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: It's actually going to be about another plant, a flowering 21 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: plant that many times people associate with death. Today we're 22 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: going to talk about a nurse who was seemingly attacked 23 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: with a blunt object in her punch tool home left 24 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: or dead, and we're going to try to understand how 25 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: somebody could have gotten rid of the evidence involved in 26 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: the case. I'm Josep Scott Morgan, and this. 27 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: Is body Bags. 28 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Dave my wife, and I know this because I've tested 29 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: it over the years. My wife loves to get flowers. Now, 30 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: some people will say that it's money. You're throwing away 31 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: money when you do it. I don't believe. I see 32 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: it as an investment, Okay. I see it as an 33 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: investment in or a relationship. If I get into a 34 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: fight with my wife, which we rarely do, are disagreement, 35 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: let me put it that way, I don't go out 36 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: and rush out and buy her flowers to try to 37 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: make everything. I just will randomly send her flowers, and 38 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: I love the expression I see on her face. It 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: brings me joy, and flowers commonly do bring me joy. 40 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: I like growing flowers. I like growing wildflowers. Actually some 41 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: people might know that about me. I hope you think 42 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: none the less of me as a result of that. 43 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: But as a matter of fact, our first date that 44 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: we ever had. 45 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: By the way, not talking about his first date with me, 46 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: talking about his wife. 47 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: I cut fresh wildflowers out of my garden at home 48 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: and took those to her on our first date. And 49 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, after that, I knew Hatter. So uh, yeah, 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: flowers have always played a big role in my life. 51 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 2: But so you're admitting you were stuck in your future. 52 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: It was a blond date. It wasn't you know. We 53 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: were before the days where you could really cyber stock anybody. 54 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was I've always loved flowers. But I 55 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: got to tell you, Dave, the this case is very 56 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: troubling today because it does involve it does involve lilies, 57 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: and you know, we've I think commonly people have associated 58 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: lilies with with death. There's imagery out there of you know, bodies, 59 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: even I think going back to the Middle Ages, where 60 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: you have bodies that are casketed and they're laying there 61 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: where their hands crossed and their lilies across their chest, 62 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: it's always symbolic of that. I find this case very disturbing. 63 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: And I'm glad you brought up the funeral with the 64 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 3: hands crossed with the lilies, because that actually was part 65 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: of the break in this case. Today we're talking about 66 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: the death of Lisa Hernandez, talking about a forty five 67 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: year old woman who accomplished. She's a nurse, accomplished woman. 68 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: She's the person everybody liked to work with. You know, 69 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 3: you you always think about what are people going to 70 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: say when you're gone, and you know, we don't get 71 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 3: to hear those things because we're gone. In this respect, 72 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 3: that was the first thing I thought of, is everybody 73 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 3: has these wonderful nice things to say about her, and 74 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 3: she's not here to enjoy them. She was found by 75 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: her daughter. Daughter comes in, calls nine one one because 76 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: she finds her mom. She's not ri responsive, she's got 77 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: blood everywhere and doesn't know what happened. It looked like 78 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: maybe there was a robbery of some sort going on 79 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: in here, but calls nine one one. They come out 80 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: and sadly Lisa Hernandez is dad. When everything was said 81 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 3: and done, Joe about her body and the damage that 82 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: had been done. I wrote this down because I had 83 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: to ask you. This says cause of death, blunt force 84 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: instrument and a sharp edged instrument. How do you, as 85 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 3: somebody investigating a death and you've got these, how do 86 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: you put this together? And what is something that could 87 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 3: be a blunt instrument as well as a sharp edge? 88 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: Is there is there something that could be both? Oh? 89 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's a couple of things that come 90 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: to mind, And I've had deaths involving both of these instruments. 91 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna mention and these are just off the top 92 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: of my head. The first one, obviously, is going to 93 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: be a hammer, a claw hammer, you know, where you've 94 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: got the blunt leading edge that is used to hammer 95 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: nails into a surface, and then you flip it around 96 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: and you've got these two and they look like big 97 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: buck teeth that are coming down that have leading edges 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: that are very sharp, and that of course traditionally has 99 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: been used pride nails up with. But it is one 100 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: heck of a fatal instrument. The other thing that I've had, 101 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: and I don't think that's what we're dealing with here, 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: is a mall. A mall looks like a sledge hammer, 103 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: with a blade on the other side, and you can 104 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: split wood with it because it's got so much weight 105 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: to it, and so that weight is transferred, you know, 106 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: down onto a block of wood. It has a bit 107 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: more utility than a standard axe, for instance, and you 108 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: can flip it around and use it as a sledge. 109 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: I've got one of those. I did not know what 110 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: it was called. 111 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 3: It's just something that somehow ended up in my garage. 112 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: You know, a U l Yeah, it's real heavy, it's 113 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: got yeah, so. 114 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: It's a weird word. But yet hey, you know, mall 115 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: itself is used to describe the individual was maulled, So 116 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: that gives you an indication that there in the past 117 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: there's been violence associated with it. I mean, whi elst 118 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: would you name this instrument that I'm probably you know, 119 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure that some some linguistic person that's out there 120 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: will probably you know, catch me in the lurch here 121 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: some way. But that's that's my assessment. 122 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: I've got one, and I didn't Again, I don't know 123 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: how I ended up with it. I'm sure somebody passed 124 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: away and I ended up with it. 125 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: It's one of the best instruments she can have in 126 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: your tool shit. The only thing about it is it'll 127 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: wear you out, I mean real quick. I used to 128 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: get in shape for football during the off season by 129 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: felling trees with a family member and we would split wood, 130 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, we'd cut it into sections. And I had 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: a mall to do that with. Also had a sledge 132 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: hammer and a couple of steel wedges and all that 133 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: sort of thing. But the mall will get the job done. 134 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: But just understand it would wear you out. But in 135 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: this set of circumstances, Dave, I cannot necessarily see someone 136 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: coming into this house. And by the way, she was 137 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: found actually on the floor between the bed and the dresser, 138 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: I think, And there's blood everywhere. When you're at a 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: death scene and you've gotten matted, coagulated blood about, you 140 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: have to be very very careful in handling the body 141 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: and making any kind of injury assessment at that time 142 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: because you will be super encrusted with blood. That's been 143 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: my experience, and you're not going to be able to 144 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: appreciate everything at the scene relative to trauma. So you 145 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: can say that, yeah, there is what appears to be 146 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: copious red substance at the scene. Of course, that translates 147 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: into blood. Once you've confirmed it scientifically, and you can 148 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: do that at the scene, you can do an on 149 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: the spot test to say that this is in fact 150 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: blood and that it's human blood and all this sort 151 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: of stuff. But until you can get a body back 152 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: to the morgue under the white hot surgical lights, it's 153 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: best that you don't jump to any conclusions. Because I've 154 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: seen gunshot wounds to the head that have generated tremendous 155 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: amounts of blood. But I've also seen blunt force trauma 156 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: as well, and when you get a combination, Dave of both, 157 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: what they're saying is blunt force and sharp force, it 158 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: gives you a sense of probably, unfortunately, God bless her, 159 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: what this poor daughter saw once you got there. I mean, 160 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: I can't imagine walking in and someone seeing their mama 161 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: laying on the floor and she's encrusted with blood. It 162 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: would confuse the investigators out there unless they're very, very 163 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: careful and be very painstaking to get the body to 164 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist so they can document it with the 165 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: crusted blood. Then at the more you bathe the body, 166 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: not with soap, but you just kind of rinse it down. 167 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: We have a sprayer that's hooked to the autopsy table, 168 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: and it kind of looks like a sprayer you would 169 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: have on your sink. It's a bit more robust than that, 170 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: and it forces water into these crusted areas and you 171 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of have to wipe it away to reveal any 172 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: kind of injuries. And as a matter of fact, from 173 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: one of the things we do that I may have 174 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: mentioned before is that, particularly with injuries to the head, 175 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: we actually shave the head, We shave the area you know, 176 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: around there. So you got to be real careful, Dave, 177 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: when you're you know, when you're funding assessments. It seems 178 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: because when you. 179 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: Go to a funeral, I mean that, I'm sure when 180 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: you're trying to figure out how a person died, what 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: took place, you're not really concerned with what are they 182 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: going to look like in the casket for their family. 183 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: You've got to solve this crime. But I wondered about 184 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: the shaving. If it was full on, got to shave 185 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 3: everything to make sure we don't miss anything, or. 186 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: No, you'll inspect the area, you'll rent out the hair net. 187 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: Keep in mind, I know some of you guys are saying, well, 188 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: you're watching way evidence you do this after you have 189 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: gone to great links to collect trace evidence. Okay, that's 190 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: why you don't want to wash the body down in 191 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: any way until you can do things like tape lifts 192 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: and certainly do swabs you're looking for DNA and all 193 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: this sort of thing. You have to be very patient. 194 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: That's why if you get these complex cases out there 195 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: where you've got multiple strikes, you will literally have a 196 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: layering of injuries. And it's a nightmare. I mean, it 197 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: really is. It's a nightmare because sometimes if you've got 198 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,599 Speaker 1: multiple strikes to the head, for instance, you're going to 199 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: have overlying lacerations. And the trick is, first off, when 200 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: you assess us lacerations, are they anti mortem? That means 201 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: that if they struck, you should have surrounding hemorrhage. But 202 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: if they're post mortem, all you've got is a laceration 203 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: and there's no hemorrhage, there's no echemmosis, which is a 204 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: fancy word for swelling. You're not going to have that. 205 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: So you have to be very careful when you're doing 206 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: this assessment because as we know, I mean, you and 207 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: I have covered tons of them on body bags where 208 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: we have people that do things to bodies after death, 209 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: when you're doing those assessments, and then you throw in 210 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: the sharp edged element too, how do you delineate between 211 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: all of this and with a head strike, the one 212 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: thing that you can count on that you're going to 213 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: see resting just beneath the surface is going to be 214 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: a skull underlying that traumatized scalp, and you will have 215 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: multiple fractures of the external table of the skull, and 216 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: many times it looks precisely like a cracked, hard bolled eck. 217 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: When you're death investigator, you don't always frame things as 218 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: an investigator. When you're at the scene, sometimes your humanity 219 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: will take over. And what I mean by that if 220 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: you're working a case in a neighborhood, for instance, just 221 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: like the one that mister Nandez lived in, I've caught 222 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: myself many times with my thoughts drifting to the sight 223 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: of people peeping out of their windows or coming out 224 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: onto their driveway, or even people taking photos and video 225 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: of us working the scene, and they would gather together 226 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: in clusters, and it's always stuck with me. I think 227 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: it has something to do with human behavior and group 228 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: human behavior. It's like you, if you have a perception 229 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: of evil or harm that might be coming your way 230 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: because of one of your own in your neighborhood has 231 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: been attacked. People that might not otherwise talk to one 232 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: another gather together. And I've often thought about, you know, 233 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: what would it be like to live in a neighborhood 234 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: where you you've got a woman who is gainfully employed, 235 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: who was known, who had a family. What would it 236 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: be like to find out the news that she'd been 237 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: literally beaten to death. 238 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: Dave, it would be a shocking, worrisome time in your neighborhood, 239 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: that's for sure. With Lisa and David Hernandez, they actually 240 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: they're both nurses, both in the same medical field, and 241 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: they had hit the end of their relationship rope and 242 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 3: they were separated. They were not divorced yet from what 243 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: I can gather, but they had been at least separated 244 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: for a year. That's why they refer to them as exes. 245 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 3: In some states, you actually have to be separated legally 246 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: for a year before a divorce would be granted, and anyway, 247 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: they had been during that year. 248 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: Though. 249 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 3: It's interesting how investigators have pointed out that it was 250 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: after about a year of separation that David Hernandez started 251 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 3: stalking his almost ex wife. 252 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: They didn't say he did it right away. 253 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 3: It was after, right at the edge, when it was 254 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 3: time where it looked like the divorce was really going 255 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: to happen. That's when he turns into overdrive and he 256 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: starts following her. He puts a tracking device on her car. 257 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: He sends her flowers, but not just any flowers. Okay, 258 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: David Hernandez knew that his wife was highly allergic to 259 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: Lili's So when he sends her a beautiful bouquet of 260 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: flowers to her place of work for everybody to see, 261 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: and here you've got lilies that are referred to as 262 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: death flowers, and she is highly allergic. So you talk 263 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 3: about using something you know about somebody as it's today. 264 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: And on top of all that, he would randomly pop 265 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 3: in at work. He would just he knows what a 266 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 3: nurse is going through at work, yet he would just 267 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: randomly pop up at her work basically saying, hey, I'm here, 268 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: I'm watching I got you. And by the way, it 269 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: wasn't until after her death that they found the tracking 270 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 3: device on her car. 271 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: That's the wait, hang on that, that to me is 272 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: one of these absolutely terrifying things. I hate this crap. 273 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: I hate the idea of somebody being able to track 274 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: another individual. I think that one of these companies out there, 275 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: I guess it's Apple, you know, has that Apple Tracker 276 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: thing that people can use. And I understand the utility 277 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: of it. I mean, you know, if you've got a 278 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: dog that's you know, like I've got, yeah, I've got 279 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: my laboratory retriever whom I love. You know, if I 280 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: could put one of those in her collar, perhaps you know, 281 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: I could see where she is. But it's the idea 282 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: of someone having the ability to do that to another person. 283 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: You know, when we were kids, dave that kind of 284 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: technology that that's something that that's something we would have 285 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: thought about with James Bond movies. 286 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 3: It was like a video phone, you know, yeah, yeah, exactly. 287 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: And now now everybody has access to these things. You know, 288 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: they can track you. And you know, I know Nancy, 289 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: our friend, is very you know, she uses her her 290 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, locate my yeah, you know, yeah, my iPhone, 291 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: and she uses that with her kids. You know, she 292 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: talks about the twins all the time. I understand that, 293 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: and it does create maybe a level of security, but 294 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: there's also a real terrifying element to this that somebody 295 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: that you no longer want to be domiciled with, obviously 296 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: you know, has the ability, that has access to the 297 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: technology and that can use it. Technology is great, man, 298 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what, buddy, it's really got it downside. 299 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 3: So those track of things you mentioned actually have done 300 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: a couple of stories on this with Nancy about you know, 301 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 3: people using those in a bar situation, driving in at first, 302 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 3: things like that to a track of woman's movements. And 303 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: there are ways for you to protect yourself about it. 304 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 3: If you don't know what we're talking about, please look 305 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 3: it up. There are ways to protect yourself from somebody 306 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: unknowingly tagging you like that, and you can prevent it 307 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 3: from happening to you. So now, with regard to her 308 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: having this tracking device on her vehicle, they were able 309 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 3: to trace it back to her husband, her ex husband, 310 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 3: David Hernandez, probably by purchasing it online. They're not cheap. 311 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 3: We'll get into that over the next couple of days. 312 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: I can tell you that I'll be looking it up. 313 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: Some of the rest of you will as well, because 314 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: it is not just spooky, it's dangerous. So as they're 315 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 3: investigating it, Joe, they're putting these things together. I mean, 316 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: we've talked about how the person you're closest to is 317 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 3: the first suspect and it goes out from there. And 318 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: in this case, you have a soon to be ex 319 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: husband in estranged situation and he has been showing a 320 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 3: number of behaviors that are very worrisome to probably her friends, 321 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 3: other members that she worked with, things like that. So 322 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 3: police have their hands full right away with who they're 323 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: looking at as possible suspects. But again, it was a 324 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 3: scene that had been staged. You know what a scene 325 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 3: looks like when you go to it, Joe as a 326 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 3: death investigator. Police know what a robbery scene looks like, 327 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: and they know when something doesn't ring true. Correct, Yeah, yeah, 328 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 3: you do. 329 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: And sometimes you'll see with the staging staging scenes, first off, 330 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: it's very difficult when somebody has got an open head 331 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: injury and they have obviously bled out, it's very difficult 332 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: to kind of mask that if you're the perpetrator. However, 333 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: when you have a true staged scene, you'll see many 334 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: times these kind of half hearted efforts to open drawers up, 335 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: maybe pull a few things out, that sort of thing. 336 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: It won't be the individual will not necessarily be all 337 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: in on it. Because when you think of like a 338 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: robbery or burglary that turns into you know, a murder, robbery, murder, 339 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: when you see that at a scene when it's true, 340 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: you'll see all kinds of crap that's broken, turned over, 341 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: busted into a million pieces, where they're digging for something 342 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: and it looks like they're in a frenzy. I've had 343 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: several cases where you have people that are in an 344 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: addictive phase in their life and all they want is 345 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: to score. They just want to score whatever dope that 346 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: they're addicted to, and it will it looks like a 347 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: madman has gone through the house, and it's terrifying. And 348 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: there have been times I've worked these cases obviously where 349 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: there's somebody that's not i mean, who suspects this, who 350 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: expects it, you know, and you walk into your home 351 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: and there's this raving maniac in there, and they kill 352 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: you with a weapon of convenience. Most of the time, 353 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: but police can kind of understand, I think relative to staging, 354 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: one of the first things we're going to look for 355 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: is and you hear talk about it all the time, 356 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: is is there evidence of forced entry at the scene, 357 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: because forced entry implies that you had to gain access 358 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: where you were not allowed to be accessing an area 359 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: you had a key or maybe familiarity where you can 360 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: knock on the door and somebody's gonna let you in, 361 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: and so yeah, the police have a have a way 362 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: of doing that. But I gotta I gotta tell you, 363 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: David kind of kind of jumped ahead a little bit. 364 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to. I had an idea that kind of 365 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: came to mind. You had mentioned a few moments ago 366 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: about the lilies that she is highly allergic to, and 367 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: both these individuals are also in the medical field. Now 368 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: just give me a little rope here, because I know 369 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: that this might this might run run a field, and 370 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: you know you but I'm really wondering here, if you 371 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: have knowledge that someone is specifically allergic to something and 372 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: you send it to them, are you holding out hope 373 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,239 Speaker 1: that if they hold these things, if they have them 374 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: adjacent to them, they're going to have an anaphylactic event 375 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: where they begin to swell, their airway is going to 376 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: begin to close. You'll see their face turned red. And 377 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: interestingly enough day people might laugh at that. I actually 378 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: had a lady years and years ago that committed suicide 379 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: visa vis anaphylaxis, and you know how she accomplished it. 380 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: She was allergic to any kind of shellfish and she 381 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: went to a buffet with her husband and sat across 382 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: the table and just jammed her face with bail trimp 383 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: and he knew. He was like, what what are you doing? 384 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, like this And before you knew it, she 385 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, she didn't have an EpiPen. I don't even 386 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: think there was bena drill handy, and you get to 387 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: that point. I don't know that Benadryla is going to 388 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: touch the situation. But she went into cardial respiratory arrest 389 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: right there and they ran a coat and she died 390 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: at the hospital. And she had been suffering with depression 391 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: all that sort of thing. So this is interesting. It's 392 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: an interesting thought for me as an instigator. I really 393 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: want to know was he trying to weaponize lilies? I 394 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: think that that's a fascinating point along this because if 395 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: you have knowledge that she has a reaction to these, 396 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: is that what you're trying to do. 397 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: That boggles my mind. 398 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: I know, it's bizarre, isn't it. 399 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 3: When I saw the death flower headline on this story. Yeah, okay, 400 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: that's kind of merterious. But I was thinking it was 401 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 3: one of those stinky flowers that when they open up, 402 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: they smell bad and when you feel like you're going 403 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: to die. 404 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think those things. I think they weigh 405 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: like two tons, like every five years or something. That's 406 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking. So is it like feed 407 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: me seymore in the basement. No, And I'm not saying 408 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: that lilies are fatal, but any kind of allergic reaction 409 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: that you can have to anything, I don't. 410 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: You know, I wonder if. 411 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: Neither of us are lawyers or anything else. But it 412 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 3: makes you wonder if you know somebody is allergic to 413 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 3: something and you tried to get it in their face 414 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: to cause them pain and you know whatever. I wonder 415 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: if there is not an assault charge waiting it's happened. 416 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 1: Hey, That's exactly what I was thinking about, because if 417 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: you have four knowledge and listen, it's hard. You know, 418 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: when you get into the realm of medicine, when you're 419 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 1: certified a registered nurse, you understand allergic reactions, and then 420 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: on top of that, you're domiciled with this person, you're married, 421 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: to them. You're going to know that intimate detail so 422 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: much to the point that this individual may have chosen 423 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: to send it. I don't know. Maybe he thought that 424 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: she liked Lili's. But I got to tell you, if 425 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: I was a betting man and I'm working this case 426 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: and she's got a history of allergic reactions to these flowers, 427 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: I think that it would be something worth kind of 428 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: digging into and anything else. I'm very curious about this case, which, 429 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: by the way, at this point time has not been adjudicated. 430 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: This is a recent case, so this man is innocent 431 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: until proven guilty. But I'd have to think if I 432 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: were in the middle of this thing working it, I 433 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: don't want to know if he had ever made any 434 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: other kind of efforts at harming her anyway. It's almost 435 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: like kind of a passive intimidation tactic. You know. You 436 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: can imagine what she thought when she received these, Wow, 437 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: I've got flowers. Oh no, they're lilies. It's so bizarre. 438 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: But you know that at the end of the day, 439 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: that's that's not what it came down to. But I 440 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: really wonder, Dave, I really wonder if those lilies, we're 441 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: not a portent of something far more sinister and evil 442 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: investigations are. They're not instantaneous. It's not like you've got 443 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: a bowl of ramen and you pour hot water in 444 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: it and suddenly you've got a meal. It's not like that. 445 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: It's not instantaneous. Really good investigations take a period of 446 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: time because they're so intricate. I like to compare them 447 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: in my mind, always envision them as spiderwebs, and you've 448 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: got all this directionality, you know, that kind of go 449 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: and it intersects with these things. And when you get 450 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: that vision in your mind, it's actually helped me, believe 451 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: it or not, when I can kind of sexualize or 452 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: compartmentalize investigations because I know what my role is in 453 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: the investigation. I don't have anything else most of the 454 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: time to do with anybody else's roles. So I think 455 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: that that's a valuable thing to keep in mind. But Dave, 456 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: you were telling me that in mister Nandez's death that 457 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: it took a little bit of time before they finally 458 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: settled on a suspect. 459 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 3: Well, they had to figure out, they had to figure 460 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 3: out what happened. They know they have a dead forty 461 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 3: five year old woman, who was beaten to death. 462 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: They know the. 463 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 3: Weapon was that there was a blunt forest instrument and 464 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: a sharp edged instrument. So they're trying to put all 465 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 3: this together, and you know, they probably had their eyes 466 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: on this soon to be x just because they were 467 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 3: able to uncover fairly quickly what he had been doing 468 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 3: in terms of stalking and the police actually terms of 469 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 3: that he had been stalking. And again, this is an allegation. 470 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 3: Now this is a current case, and everyone is innocent 471 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 3: until they're proven guilty in the court of law. But 472 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: in this particular case, they were able to build enough 473 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 3: evidence over a couple of weeks to realize that, yes, 474 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 3: this David Hernandez is our suspect. But that was through 475 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 3: just regular police work. And there was one thing that 476 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 3: they know, Where's where is the instrument of death? Where 477 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 3: is this object that we're looking for. They kind of 478 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: thought it was a hammer, They kind of were leaning 479 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 3: that way, but they couldn't figure out, couldn't find it. 480 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: It was about a month into the investigation when investigators 481 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 3: were able to get surveillance footage of La Paza train. 482 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 3: And I always thought, like, I'm mispronouncing that, no, okay, 483 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: and I'm sure, they were trying to figure out path 484 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 3: of movement and things like that of where an individual 485 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: would go. But in this particular case, a month into 486 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 3: the investigation, they get video surveillance video that is around 487 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: Lake ponsa train and they saw David Hernandez pull over 488 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 3: on the causeway and they actually said they saw him. 489 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 3: This is what the Jimmy Travis is the chief operating 490 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 3: officer and the Sheriff's office there, and he said, you 491 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 3: can see objects being thrown from the car. You see 492 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 3: it hit the water splashing, So they know he's thrown 493 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 3: something big enough and heavy enough to create that type 494 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 3: of reaction in the water. So what do you think 495 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 3: they did? They called out the dive team up and 496 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: they put divers in the water, and all I could 497 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: think of, Joe, I bet anybody driving along the causeway 498 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 3: there wanting to throw something would not consider they were 499 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: on surreulance camera. 500 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: I wouldn't think it. 501 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: They wouldn't. And first off, we're talking about literally the 502 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: world's longest bridge, and that's the Causeway bridge over Lake 503 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: Pontchraff spent unfortunately, more time on that bridge over the 504 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: course of my career when I was with the Jefferson 505 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: Parish Corners office. And is it wide, Joe, Oh, really, 506 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: it's four lanes. It's four lanes. You have two lanes 507 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: southbound and two lanes northbound, and it has guardrails. My 508 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: family has a long history with Lake Post Train. Matter 509 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: of fact, my ancestors and my ancestors actually opened the 510 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: very first ferry that ever went across Lake Pontch Train 511 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: in the late seventeen hundreds. They were bringing wood. There 512 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: was no other way to get to New Orleans other 513 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: than coming up the Mississippi River or down the Mississippi 514 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: River from Baton Rouge, or coming up through the Gulf 515 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: and through the Marshes. And so my ancestors built one 516 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: of the first ferries, Killian's Ferry. And there's a little 517 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: village on Lake Pontrain called Killian Wow. And so. 518 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to go there and say, y'all know, Joe. 519 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: No, they will not. And so and I love Pontcetrain. 520 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: I fished on Potch Train. And here's something unique about it. 521 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: And I know a lot of our our friends out 522 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: there have have certainly visited it over the years. And 523 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: people love to drive on the causeway to say that 524 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: they've been on the world's long spridge, likely just over 525 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: twenty three miles in length. 526 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: It takes a lot. Goodness, I didn't know it was 527 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 2: that long. 528 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's certain points where you can't see either shore. 529 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: But you just see water. 530 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: You see water, yeah, and then eventually you'll see land, 531 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, on the north shore, you know, kind of 532 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: poking up and and everything's flat. Obviously, it's not like 533 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: there's any hills surrounding Lake pots Train. 534 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: Everything is direction. 535 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: But here's something interesting about Lake Pontcha Train. Lake Potchtrain 536 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: is actually an estuary, and it's one of the largest 537 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: estuaries in the world, and that it is a lake. 538 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: They call it a lake, but it's it comes off 539 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: of the Gulf of Mexico, and the Mississippi River has 540 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: an influence on it too, and all the various tributaries. 541 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: Lots of life in this thing, and so you can 542 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: actually find out towards the gulf. You'll find more saltwater 543 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: species out there, redfish and speckled trout and all that 544 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: sort of thing. But you go go back to the 545 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: west and you can start catching things like crappie or 546 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: as the Cajun say, saku lea and largemouth bass and 547 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things. And so you've got this environment. 548 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: And as big as that lake is, Dave, I'm gonna 549 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: throw some knowledge on you here real quick. You might 550 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: not have ever heard Jennut Lake averages only thirteen to 551 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: fourteen feet in depth. Oh wow, as big as this 552 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: thing is because it's vast. I mean, it's not like 553 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: the size of Great Lakes, but it's vast, and it's 554 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,479 Speaker 1: got a real muddy bottom. There is a central area 555 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: that's like sixty to sixty five feet and you know 556 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: what that is. That's a shipping channel that was actually 557 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: cut in there. And so naturally it's just it's an estuary. 558 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: It's not like a real deep You go to the 559 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: Great Lakes, you know, and you've got these hundreds of 560 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: feet of depth up there. It's not like that. And 561 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: so you have a hurricane that comes through there. It's 562 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: like the meteorologists and the hydrologists talk about, it's like 563 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: having water in a saucer and the wind blows and 564 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: it'll just blow water. That's one of the problems you 565 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: had with Katrina. Ponchtrain played a big role in the flooding. 566 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: But when here's the other thing about this dive team, 567 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: which I could never do diving claustrophobic. It terrifies me. 568 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: I've got a good buddy of mine, Bobby Chacone, who 569 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: is who ran the FBI dive team, and he he 570 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: is a he's a beast. I mean he is. He'll 571 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, he he's done it all, he's seen it all. 572 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: It terrifies me. But you know, when you get into 573 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: poncha train, brother, you can't even see your hand in 574 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: front of your face, you know. So the fact that 575 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: they've got this Hernandez guy on video gives him an 576 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: idea of where to start. And also they did this 577 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: recovery in Jefferson Parish, so he traveled through a couple 578 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: of parishes and on the bridge in order to facilitate this. 579 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: And the fact that he did it out there is 580 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: amazing because you have what are called the Causeway Bridge Police, 581 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: and literally all these people do is police the bridge. 582 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: They run radar there always out there. So that gives 583 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: you an idea of how embolden he was, how confident 584 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: he was. And there is no room to pass on 585 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: this thing, man, no room to pass. You would have 586 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: to put your flashes on and say a heil Mary, 587 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: and go out there and hope that you're not going 588 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: to get crushed, and go out there quick enough to 589 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: drop it and then scoot back to your vehicle and 590 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: start heading in the opposite direction. And that's the other thing. 591 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: You start heading in the opposite direction. You got to 592 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: find a place to turn around. 593 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: Dude. 594 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: Let me tell you this though, Joe. Yeah, he stayed 595 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 3: in his car. He stayed in his car and tossed 596 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: the items from the car. 597 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: Well, that's that's an interesting, interesting point that he didn't 598 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: get out, And I wonder if he actually came to 599 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: a full stop to do it. 600 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm wondering the same thing. That's why 601 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 3: I was curious, because I don't know. I'm trying to 602 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 3: visualize this, and I can't figure out how wide the 603 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 3: bridge is. So we're not talking about a wide area. 604 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, So. 605 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: We are time he stayed in the car, I'm guessing 606 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 3: he just thought I'm gonna do it right here and 607 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 3: just out the door, you go out the window. 608 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he obviously didn't do it in the shipping channel, 609 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: which the causeway has got this big hump. It looks 610 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: like a camel just rising up. It's this gigantic hump 611 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: that's right in the center of it. And that's so 612 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: that larger ships can get through that thing and stay 613 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: in the channel, can stay in the shipping channel. Now, 614 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: he may have had a better shot of them not 615 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: being able to recover this thing if he had stopped 616 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: on top of that. But the problem was stopping and 617 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: he knows this. The problem was stopping on the top. 618 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: There are two towers up there, and they look like 619 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: I remember when I was a little kid, and I 620 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: see them. They look like air control towers, you know, 621 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: with the glass that goes all the way around it, 622 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: so that these guys that are in there can see 623 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: it for miles. You can see the landscape or the 624 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: water skate for miles and miles around. They've got ships 625 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: that are incoming and all that sort of thing. And 626 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: so you know, you're damned if you do. You're damn 627 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: if you don't. If he goes to that portion right there, 628 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: he might hit the shipping channel where this thing's going 629 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,720 Speaker 1: to go down to a depth of you know, sixty 630 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: maybe seventy feet, I don't know, and settle down in 631 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: that mud. But they caught it soon enough so that 632 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: these poor souls on this dive team had to go 633 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: down there. And when I tell you this is like, 634 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: this is hero stuff to me because it's something I 635 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: couldn't do. When they're down underwater, they're literally feeling around 636 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: with their hands, and trust me, there's more than an 637 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: item that this guy throughout over the edge of that bridge. 638 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: Lord only knows what you can find down there. I 639 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: see all these kids on YouTube nowadays and they do 640 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: the magnet fishing. Have you seen this where there's tassa 641 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: And it's pretty fascinating see what they come up with. 642 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes they come up with with weapons involved in homicides. 643 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: But you know, there's it's a heavily traveled road. It's 644 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: and you think that anything that you that you toss 645 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: over is gone forever and ever. Amen, And that ain't 646 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: necessarily the case. And what did they wind up finding today? 647 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 3: They found exactly what you were talking about earlier, on 648 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 3: a large hammer. Now the they pointed out that because 649 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 3: it was on video. That's what the sheriff actually says. 650 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 3: He thought he was throwing away these items someplace that 651 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 3: they would be gone forever, never realizing that the area 652 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 3: he was in. He was in video surveillance while he 653 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 3: was doing it, so they knew exactly where he was 654 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,760 Speaker 3: on the bridge when he threw the objects in, and 655 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 3: they were because they saw the splash. 656 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: They knew where it entered the water. 657 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 3: Now, finding a hammer, a large hammer, gonna have some 658 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 3: weight on it. It's not going to drift a whole lot. 659 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 3: I don't know how the current moves, but I'm guessing 660 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 3: it's probably not moving a whole lot. 661 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: No, and then and then once it like I said, 662 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: once it goes, once it starts to drift down, it's 663 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: going it's going to land in this silt, right and 664 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: once it gets embedded in that silt, it ain't going 665 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: to where as a matter of fact, on another interesting point, 666 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: down on the far end of the lake, the western end, 667 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: there is an entire I might be wrong. I think 668 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: it's an entire seven O seven that is beneath the 669 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: water there, and it is when I say beneath the water. 670 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: It took off from what used it's Huey P. 671 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 2: Long. 672 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: It's actually the Louis Armstrong Airport. Now it's what it's called. 673 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: It used to be called Moison plane took off in 674 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, went off the end of that northern 675 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: runway and just nosedived right into the lake. And I 676 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: don't know that they ever recovered all of the bodies 677 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: out of there, and that plane is still there and 678 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: it's buried in that silt, and so that's how sticky 679 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: this thing is. So the fact that they did recover 680 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: it is quite amazing to me. I'm fascinated, but I 681 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: think that look, you know, David Hernandez has only been charged. 682 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: He remains innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 683 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: But just so we understand, Lisa Hernandez god rest her 684 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: soul has her final fatal diagnosis was blunt force instrument 685 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: and sharp force instrument related death. And David Hernandez was 686 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: actually charged with the second Grey murder and obstruction of justice. 687 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs