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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Microsoft workers who put this element up on the screen

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Speaker 3: have told their bosses at the company that they're no

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Speaker 3: longer going to work on Israeli tech now. Microsoft is

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Speaker 3: heavily involved, as drop site has reported, with Israel's genocide

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Speaker 3: and Gaza, providing enormous amounts of cloud computing and other technological.

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Speaker 4: Support for the assault on Gaza.

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Speaker 3: The amount of money that the industry the Israeli Ministry

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Speaker 3: of Defense has sent to Microsoft has massively increased since

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Speaker 3: October twenty twenty three, According to internal company.

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Speaker 4: Documents that we reviewed.

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Speaker 3: And reported on This is an escalation from Microsoft workers

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Speaker 3: who are now drawing a line and saying that they

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Speaker 3: will just simply not work on this account. Now that

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that they Microsoft won't be able to find

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Speaker 3: workers inside the company who will do it, but the

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Speaker 3: publicity around it and the difficulty around it raises the

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Speaker 3: stakes for Western companies who are continuing to be so

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Speaker 3: intimately involved in what the world is now seeing of

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Speaker 3: not just people getting mowed down at aid distribution sites,

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Speaker 3: but dying in droves of starvation and amount nutrition.

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Speaker 4: You think this as it's.

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Speaker 5: At all, Yeah, I think it's been resonating.

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Speaker 6: I mean, Crystal and I covered what happened with the

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Speaker 6: church and also the Christian village in the West Bank.

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Speaker 3: The the Idea have just announced, by the way, that

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Speaker 3: they finished their review of their the bombing of the

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Speaker 3: church and.

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Speaker 4: That it was an accident. It was an accident, so

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Speaker 4: that's all resolved.

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Speaker 5: Good. Yeah, glad we got to the bottom of that one.

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Speaker 6: But uh, it's that was a real shift, and I

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Speaker 6: think whenever a shift like that happens, you start to

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Speaker 6: see more focus on every sort of subsequent you know,

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Speaker 6: people take more seriously when they see It's.

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Speaker 3: A good point because it just it you have a

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Speaker 3: new prism for how you're viewing what's going on right roads.

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Speaker 4: Trust.

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Speaker 6: So if everyone's telling you this is Pollywood and it's

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Speaker 6: all you know, staged fake, and that's your predisposition to

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Speaker 6: when you see these awful, awful images that those arguments

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Speaker 6: that had been sort of blocked you from taking seriously

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Speaker 6: the images and the claims of suffering, then you have

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Speaker 6: those arguments against that have so much less credibility. When

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Speaker 6: you have one experience like that, it changes, like yeah,

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Speaker 6: like you said, it's a new prism. And I've noticed

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Speaker 6: that in the last week, I think.

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Speaker 3: And speaking of stage and faked, we didn't talk about

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Speaker 3: this a few days ago when it was released, but

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Speaker 3: it's it's a fast, fascinating development. The IDF put out

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Speaker 3: this extraordinary short propaganda film of them for forty three

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Speaker 3: seconds not shooting civilians. Let's roll this clip and then

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Speaker 3: and then discuss.

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Speaker 4: If you're listening.

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Speaker 3: What you're seeing, are you know, hundreds of hungry people

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Speaker 3: kind of mobbing an AID truck that's coming in through

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Speaker 3: northern Gaza and you're hearing commanders tell the soldier IDF soldiers.

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Speaker 4: Don't shoot, don't shoot, And at least.

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Speaker 3: Four times in this short clip they say don't shoot,

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Speaker 3: don't shoot, don't shoot, And then the people who did

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Speaker 3: not get shot kind of applaud the IDF for not

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Speaker 3: shooting them. This was then posted by the Israeli military

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Speaker 3: as evidence of their most moralness.

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Speaker 5: So this is the IDEAF posted that video.

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Speaker 4: IDF posted that video.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't take a whole lot of deconstruction to start

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Speaker 3: to raise questions about it. It's like, Okay, congratulations, you

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Speaker 3: found forty three seconds of your folks not shooting unarmed

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Speaker 3: civilians who were seeking AID. What is going on with

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Speaker 3: your rules of engagement that officers had to repeatedly order

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Speaker 3: troops not to fire unarmed people, Like if I've been

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Speaker 3: critical of the US military my entire life, basically, but

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Speaker 3: there's no world in which US troops looking at a

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Speaker 3: group of people who are mobbing an AID truck and

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Speaker 3: kind of taking the flower off the AID truck would

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Speaker 3: have to be told not to shoot. None of the

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Speaker 3: soldiers there are under any risk whatsoever. Like it's clear

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Speaker 3: what the people want. The people want the food that's

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Speaker 3: on the truck. There would be no other army in

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Speaker 3: the world would think, oh, we should shoot at these people,

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Speaker 3: so that they had to keep saying, Hey, we're filming here, guys,

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Speaker 3: don't shoot, like we're doing a propaganda film here. Can

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Speaker 3: you please? Can you guys please not shoot the civilians.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of the one that the GHF put

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Speaker 3: out several weeks ago, where it's a guy speaking to

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Speaker 3: camera for like seven seconds talking about how effectively they're

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Speaker 3: distributing aid and how there's no violence and this is

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Speaker 3: an amazing accomplishment, a tremendous success, is what Tammy Bruce,

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Speaker 3: a State department called it yesterday.

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Speaker 4: At the very end of the clip, you.

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Speaker 3: Hear gunfire from There's no Hamas anywhere near these things.

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Speaker 4: That's why they're fifth.

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Speaker 3: They're like fifteen kilometers away from any populated area. And

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Speaker 3: so it's like, and that's the take they posted, like

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Speaker 3: they couldn't even get a seven second clip where they

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Speaker 3: weren't shooting in the background. So this this was really

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Speaker 3: striking me. It made me think, like, so I was

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Speaker 3: I did the show yesterday, so I came, you know,

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Speaker 3: from out northwest DC down to the studio here that

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Speaker 3: also went home. I saw a lot of people on

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Speaker 3: my way in and my way out. I didn't shoot

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Speaker 3: any of them, none.

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Speaker 5: The most moral television hosts in the real world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw a bunch of people this morning.

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Speaker 5: Some of them were hungry, probably.

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Speaker 4: Probably not, maybe maybe a few were, like.

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Speaker 5: To fine hungry.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I didn't shoot.

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Speaker 3: I have not shot anybody all day long, noble peace price,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think I will shoot anybody for the

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Speaker 3: rest of the day.

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Speaker 6: All Right, I'm gonna come next week with a letter

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Speaker 6: nominating you for the no.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate there's a lot of stiff competition this year. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so my chances are not are not very good. So

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Speaker 3: this is the this is the state that they're in

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Speaker 3: with their with their propaganda. Here's forty three seconds in

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Speaker 3: which we didn't shoot unarmed people.

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Speaker 4: Now, now a warning.

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Speaker 3: If you're not following this closely, A lot of this

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Speaker 3: might be might be new to you and might be graphic,

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Speaker 3: and maybe you want to scroll through this if you

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Speaker 3: don't want.

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Speaker 4: To see it.

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Speaker 5: It is very graphic.

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Speaker 3: But the the intensity of the violence is just exploding.

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Speaker 3: So we can put up put up C three here.

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Speaker 4: This is all.

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Speaker 3: This is all stuff within the last you know, twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours. There is this is a strike on a

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Speaker 3: home that killed fifteen U civilians, including.

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Speaker 4: Enormous number, an enormous number of children.

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Speaker 3: You've had an increasing number of strikes where you're seeing.

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Speaker 4: The Yeah, you don't even want to look at that.

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Speaker 3: You're seeing fetus is blown out of pregnant women's bodies.

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Speaker 3: These are toddlers who were born after October seventh, you know,

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Speaker 3: who have known nothing but this. Here's a man who

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Speaker 3: died of starvation. Ah, well, over one hundred people now

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Speaker 3: have died of starvation. And here's a clip that was

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Speaker 3: circulating just two guys just sitting out on the pier,

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Speaker 3: just bombed and killed just for sitting on the pier, and.

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Speaker 4: That's it. And then on filming their own murders.

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Speaker 3: So like, we keep hearing that they're getting closer and

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Speaker 3: closer to us, fees fire, but an enormous number, an

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Speaker 3: enormous number of the people and guys are now kind

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Speaker 3: of beyond the point of no return.

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Speaker 4: A reporter on one where we need to post this.

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Speaker 4: You can see it on my Twitter feed if if

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Speaker 4: you want.

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Speaker 3: A paramedic was was hit yesterday. I hope he's still alive.

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Speaker 3: He was alive as of yesterday according to medical sources.

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Speaker 3: And you can see him. So he's taken into the

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Speaker 3: hospital with getting getting an auction, and you compare his

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Speaker 3: picture to a picture of him from a couple of

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Speaker 3: years before. He's just shed so much weight. He's just

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Speaker 3: he's just skin and bone. And these are and the medics.

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Speaker 3: We're getting food much longer than the regular population. Only

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Speaker 3: in the last couple of days. At Nasser Hospital, for instance,

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Speaker 3: did the hospital staff stop getting food. The patients stopped

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Speaker 3: getting food a long time ago. Now it's it's basically

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Speaker 3: every person for themselves whatever, you know, whatever they could,

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Speaker 3: you know, whatever they can find. So it's just going

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Speaker 3: absolutely bananas now. Meanwhile, they cut off internet to darry Oballa,

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Speaker 3: which is the remaining kind of severe infrastructure left in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: It's actually where Abu Baker grew up and was from.

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Speaker 3: It's where his family is, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: where a lot of the UN and AID organizations are

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Speaker 3: our house. There's nowhere else for them to operate at

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Speaker 3: this point. So they've now launched an incursion into dary Bala.

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Speaker 3: They cut off internet to it. They're bom bombing the

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Speaker 3: hell out of it. Sayah Al KUDS, which is a

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Speaker 3: resistance faction put out as a statement that you can

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Speaker 3: put put up this next element that they've now lost

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Speaker 3: contact with Rome Breslovski, who is one of the twenty

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Speaker 3: one of the twenty remaining hostages assumed to be twenty

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Speaker 3: remaining hostages who are still alive. The you know, Almas

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Speaker 3: had warned and actually IDF commanders have have warned like

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Speaker 3: if we if we continue to assault these particular areas,

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Speaker 3: we're very worried that we're going to kill more hostages.

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Speaker 3: They've already killed an untold number uncount uncounted number at

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Speaker 3: this point, but a significant number of hostages. And so

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Speaker 3: now there's this reporting that, uh, they've lost contact with

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Speaker 3: with Rome. So uh, this is this is in the

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Speaker 3: context of Whitcoff heading to you know, there's reports that

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Speaker 3: he's going to be heading over there as they're trying

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Speaker 3: to finalize an agreement. There's uh are there's you know,

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Speaker 3: the negotiations heavily are around aid and how aid would

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Speaker 3: be distributed, because if this aid system continues, then the

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Speaker 3: death by starvation and the slaughter at all of these

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Speaker 3: aid distribution sides would continuing.

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Speaker 4: And Hamas is saying we can't we can't agree to that.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday, Tammy Bruce, this is an incredible moment of the

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Speaker 3: States part where he said this is a it's a

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Speaker 3: tremendous success, like the gods humanitarian Fauscion Foundation, aid distribution.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And one of the reporters like, well, the result of

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Speaker 3: the success is starvation. Like that's that's your that's your

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Speaker 3: definition of success. It's like.

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Speaker 4: Like before people weren't dying of starvation. Now they are.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sure under what terms that counts as

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Speaker 3: a success.

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Speaker 6: That the ceasefire timeline is interesting because it seems to

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Speaker 6: me like and you've covered this closely. I think we've

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Speaker 6: talked about it, that the escalation correlates the closer a

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Speaker 6: ceasefire appears to be politically, the closer the Trump administration

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Speaker 6: suggests they are to a ceasefire, like oneever wit Cough

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Speaker 6: is negotiating, it seems like you end up.

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Speaker 4: It's like the empty the warehouses of bombs on. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I don't.

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Speaker 3: Hope hopefully we're going to get a reprieve to this soon,

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Speaker 3: but you know, too late for a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: So let's also take a trip down memory lane. This

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Speaker 3: is crazy the nineteen nineties, Benjamin Naho, Bill Clinton, and

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Speaker 3: Monica Lewinsky stick around this one. So, in a scandal

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Speaker 3: that has been largely lost to contemporary memory, Israeli Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister Benjamin Netnah who was alleged to have blackmailed then

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Speaker 3: President Bill Clinton by revealing to him that Israel had

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Speaker 3: collected tapes of phone sex calls between the forty second

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Speaker 3: president and White House intern Monica Lewinsky. The story is

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Speaker 3: worth revisiting amid allegations that Jeffrey Epstein was involved in

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Speaker 3: a long running Israeli blackmail operation of his own. So

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Speaker 3: Clinton met with Netnaho in the Oval Office in February

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven. Subsequently, according to testimony Lewinsky gave to

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Speaker 3: the Special Council's Office, Clinton secretary Betty Curry reached out

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Speaker 3: to Lewinsky to invite her to an Oval Office meeting,

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Speaker 3: telling her Clinton quote had something important to tell her

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Speaker 3: unquote it would turn out to be their final sexual encounter.

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Speaker 3: But Clinton also used the opportunity to tell her that

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Speaker 3: a quote foreign embassy had tapped his phone and recorded

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Speaker 3: their conversation. Lewinsky said Clinton did not specify which embassy,

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Speaker 3: though The meeting with Lewinsky came the month after his

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Speaker 3: meeting with net Yahoo. The special Prosecutor's report was far

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Speaker 3: more concerned with Lewinsky's claim of the sexual encounter that

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Speaker 3: day because it contradicted Clinton's claim that they had had

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Speaker 3: only one encounter that year, than they were with the

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Speaker 3: fact that a foreign government was spying on the President

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Speaker 3: and letting him know about it. The prosecutor was also

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Speaker 3: interested in Clinton's response, namely that he proposed cover stories,

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Speaker 3: these recover stories that the two could employ if they

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Speaker 3: were confronted with the tapes. Clinton suggested the pairs say

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Speaker 3: they knew they were under surveillance and the phone sex

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Speaker 3: was a quote put on for whoever was listening. It's

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Speaker 3: an awfully flimsy idea, but look, he was guilty. The

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Speaker 3: man did not have much to work with now. In April,

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Speaker 3: Netnyahuo and Clinton met again for a quote private visit

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Speaker 3: on a Saturday. Then in May nineteen ninety seven, Clinton

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Speaker 3: again had Curry invite Lewinsky to the White House. During

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Speaker 3: that visit, he broke up with her. Lewinsky testified the

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Speaker 3: next fall. So this is fall of nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 3: Clinton hosted Netnahu and Power sending leader Yaser Arafat for

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Speaker 3: a summit at Wye River, Maryland. Toward the end of

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Speaker 3: the summit, at seven am, after a long night of

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Speaker 3: final negotiations and handshakes, Nenyawho approached Clinton privately to demand

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Speaker 3: the release of convicted Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, long a

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Speaker 3: cause to leb of the Israeli far right. That's according

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Speaker 3: to reporting the time from The New York Times. Now

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Speaker 3: Netnah who brought up the sex tapes in the context

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Speaker 3: of the Pollard demand. According to subsequent reporting by Washington

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Speaker 3: Examiner editor Daniel harper in his book Clinton Inc. The

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Speaker 3: Audacious Rebuilding of a Political Machine, he writes, quote, not

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Speaker 3: wanting to directly threaten the powerful American President, a crucial

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Speaker 3: Israeli ally, Clinton was told that the Israeli government had

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Speaker 3: thrown the tapes away, but the very mention of them

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Speaker 3: was enough to constitute a form of blackmail. Halpern reported

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Speaker 3: the talks almost broke down as CIA chief George Tennant

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Speaker 3: told Clinton he would resign on the spot if Clinton

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Speaker 3: agreed to the terms. So instead, Clinton agreed to quote

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Speaker 3: review Pollard's case, He did not release him Pollard was

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Speaker 3: eventually freed in twenty fifteen under the Obama administration. Now,

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Speaker 3: on the last day of his first term, Trump pardoned

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Speaker 3: Pollard's handler back in Israel. Pollard is now an outspoken

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Speaker 3: supporter of extremist national security minister Ben Givier It's Amar

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Speaker 3: Ben Gavier and is called for the full ethnic cleansing

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Speaker 3: of Gaza. I don't know, Emily, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: What a Netna hotel? Bill Clinton? I'm so curious it's

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Speaker 3: another foreign embassy that this could be.

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Speaker 6: So this is very casually in the book of Daniel Helper, right,

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Speaker 6: who is I.

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Speaker 4: Mean, you probably see about him as a reporter.

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Speaker 5: Well, I was even to ask you, I.

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Speaker 6: Mean, he's his sort of right of Senator bush Era.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't want to get this wrong, but that's.

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Speaker 4: My doing a lot of these Clinton in style, yeah.

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Speaker 6: Right, and then was covering foreign policy like during that

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Speaker 6: time period. I remember Daniel Helper a lot from the

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Speaker 6: kind of blogging years, if that makes sense, like the

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Speaker 6: books your blogging years.

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Speaker 5: But this is very casually in the book.

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Speaker 3: And there was there was another book it was called

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Speaker 3: Gideon Spies in ninety eight published in the UK that

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Speaker 3: reported the same thing that it was that there, that

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Speaker 3: that Yahoo that end that it was Israel that had

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Speaker 3: gotten these tapes because they basically whated. Like back then

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Speaker 3: it was probably pretty maybe even easier than it is now.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people were learning about this affair like

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Speaker 3: it was like it was everywhere before it was reported

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Speaker 3: by Drudge and then by Newsweek. It was the talk

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Speaker 3: of like elite Washington. That's how like you know, Linda

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Speaker 3: Tripp was telling book agents publishers.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Lucy and Goldberg.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Jonah Goldberg's mom, she's telling people and like.

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Speaker 4: You know, actually, what's his name? George Conway?

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Speaker 3: Right, he like he was who's now there Istance Democrat

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Speaker 3: Guy Kelly and Conway's ex husband, and and.

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Speaker 4: Coulter and like this whole right wing world.

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Speaker 6: Brett Kavanaugh was working with Ken Starr. George Conway was

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Speaker 6: in that group. Colter was defending Paula Jones and.

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Speaker 3: Paula Jones lawyers like learned about Monica way early and

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Speaker 3: they so in other words, a lot of people in

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Speaker 3: Washington knew about the Monica affair while it was still ongoing.

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Speaker 3: So if you were a foreign embassy that that learned

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Speaker 3: this and it would not have been hard for israelin others, not.

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Speaker 4: Just them, to learn about it.

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Speaker 3: It would then not be hard for you to go

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Speaker 3: and tap Monica Wincy's phone. You don't you don't have

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Speaker 3: to tap the White House at that point. You just

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Speaker 3: get Monica's phone line.

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Speaker 5: Which is way easier, of course.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and then your boom, You're going to pick up.

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Speaker 4: All of these calls that continued to happen. How do

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Speaker 4: you like? How do you like Bill Clinton's cover story?

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Speaker 4: We knew that we were being.

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Speaker 3: Surveilled by a foreign government, so we decided to do

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Speaker 3: fake sex tapes with an intern.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I was gonna say, I think actually that

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Speaker 6: may so. First of all, I think it gives it

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Speaker 6: more credibility that it's casually in the book, and I

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Speaker 6: think Daniel Helper is like sort of broadly pretty pro Israel.

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Speaker 5: I have to go back and look.

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Speaker 6: But I think that's like sort of baked into a

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Speaker 6: lot of the coverage that Daniel Helper has done.

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Speaker 5: But I think the fact that this.

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Speaker 6: Is sort of casually just inserted into the narrative of

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Speaker 6: the book lends credibility to it, and people aren't challenging it.

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Speaker 6: It's the same thing with the alex Acosta quote that

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Speaker 6: Vicky Ward put in her story that barely raised an

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Speaker 6: eyebrow at the time, and Acrosta, there weren't all other

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Speaker 6: people from those meetings in the Senate coming out and

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Speaker 6: saying this never happened. So anyway, all that that's like

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Speaker 6: a bit of a tangent, but it also makes you

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Speaker 6: look differently on the way Clinton vociferously denied the affair,

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Speaker 6: because it's possible that they were really serious about this

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Speaker 6: defense for foreign policy.

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Speaker 5: Reasons that they were.

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Speaker 6: They had motives beyond just protecting Clinton, that they were

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Speaker 6: like also dealing with the potential foreign policy consequences of

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Speaker 6: this entire thing being known to an ally is crazy.

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Speaker 3: By fall of ninety eight, when the Wide River things

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Speaker 3: happen Eastern Shore, I remember when that when that was

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Speaker 3: happening eastern Shore of Maryland, the world kind.

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Speaker 4: Of the public knew about all of this.

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Speaker 3: So like the value, the value of that blackmail by

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Speaker 3: then was much diminished by the fact that it was

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Speaker 3: everywhere already. And then you had you had the midterms

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Speaker 3: where Democrats overperformed despite all of this stuff, right, because

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Speaker 3: when did he when did it all break? That he

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Speaker 3: admitted it. I don't remember exactly what.

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Speaker 6: Oh man, the like that he that's a good question.

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Speaker 6: The timeline is important in this context. But yeah, I

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Speaker 6: mean the whole thing this is August.

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Speaker 3: Oh so he admitted in the grand jury testimony in

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Speaker 3: August nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think we knew that till ninety nine,

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Speaker 5: didn't we.

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Speaker 3: No, But then he knew it was going to leak,

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Speaker 3: so they put it out immediately. Okay, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: so by the time that Yahoo at why River is

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Speaker 3: allegedly like blackmailing him with the tapes and telling him

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Speaker 3: that and he's and it's an interesting phrasing that that

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Speaker 3: he's alleged to have used, which is, hey, those tapes

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Speaker 3: I mentioned like, don't worry, we destroyed them.

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Speaker 4: It's like, oh, sure you did.

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Speaker 3: So, but it's a way of you know, mentioned bringing

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Speaker 3: them up. And of course I'm not threatening you. This

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Speaker 3: is crazy, right, I would never do such a thing.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's kind of like it's actually kind of like

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Speaker 6: the Epstein Bill Gates email, which reportedly was you know,

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Speaker 6: it was about the woman that Bill Gates had an

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Speaker 6: affair with, like the professional poker player. I think she's

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Speaker 6: a professional poker player that Bill Gates had an affair with,

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Speaker 6: and Epstein basically sent Bill Gates an email being like, Hey,

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Speaker 6: I think he asked for like some type of payment

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Speaker 6: related to the not for like any sexual stuff, but

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Speaker 6: like just a scholarship something like that, just to let

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Speaker 6: Bill Gates know he knew about this woman with whom he.

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Speaker 5: Had an affair.

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, you can't.

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Speaker 6: And you know, is it a smoking gun. No, because

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Speaker 6: it's not Hey, I'm blackmailing you. I know you had

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Speaker 6: an affair, give me money for this, or it was

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Speaker 6: like he had some charitable thing he wanted money quote

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Speaker 6: unquote charitable thing he wanted Bill Gates to get money to.

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Speaker 5: And so he's not saying blackmail. This is blackmail unless

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Speaker 5: you give me this money.

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Speaker 4: He's just saying, hey, I know, I know, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: know about this thing.

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Speaker 5: Many such cases, yeah, many such cases.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So and yeah, the part about the CIA is interesting too,

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Speaker 3: like because this was a bipartisan thing at the time

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Speaker 3: that the CIA and whether your Republican or Democrat were

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Speaker 3: and it was I think it was under Reagan that

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Speaker 3: they caught Pollard actually Jonathan Pollard's spy.

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Speaker 4: They were absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Committed to keeping him behind bars and not not releasing him.

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Speaker 3: And it was when when Obama led him out in

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, it was supposed like, you know, it's more

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Speaker 3: like parole. Like you, He's served like thirty years or whatever.

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Speaker 3: He's served like an enormous amount of sentence. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 3: still very active in politics. He's even he's even like

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Speaker 3: floated that he's going to run for Kannessen, you know,

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Speaker 3: under the Bengavie banner.

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Speaker 6: Basically, what the It's just this, It is so crazy

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Speaker 6: how many like you can play six degrees of Monica

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Speaker 6: Lewinsky with the politics at any given moment, or six

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Speaker 6: degrees of like Clinton Lewinsky scandal at any given moment.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's just it's it still affects so many

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Speaker 6: different things in so many ways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely wild yep, really a moment. Yeah, crazy stuff, Yes, indeed.

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Speaker 3: All right, Next, we're going to talk to Carolyn Feinstein,

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Speaker 3: that's right, who was the wife of the guy who

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Speaker 3: made the ice blocker. She worked for the UH basically

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Speaker 3: the trustee office inside the Department of Justice overseeing bank

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Speaker 3: like look basically as a bankruptcy fraud staffer, and she

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Speaker 3: was canned by the Department of Justice due to her

439
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: connection with her husband's ice blocker app.

440
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: Let's talk to her about this. One of the.

441
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: Things that the White House is most upset about is

442
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 3: a new app called ice block which allows people to

443
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 3: report ice agent sightings and then if you have that app,

444
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: you're going to get an alert if you within five

445
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 3: miles of one of these sightings. One of the odd

446
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: consequences of their fury at this app is that they

447
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 3: figured out that the wife of the app developer, Carolyn Feinstein,

448
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 3: worked for a division of the Department of Justice, and

449
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: they promptly fired her. So Carolyn Feinstein is joining us

450
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: now to talk about this DAGA and this app. Carolyn,

451
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: thanks so much for joining us. Can you start out

452
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 3: by letting us know what were you doing for the

453
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 3: Department of Justice.

454
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 7: Well, thank you for having me With the Department of Justice.

455
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 8: I was with a small program called the US Trustee Program,

456
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 8: and I was an auditor for them, where we looked

457
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 8: at fraud and abuse in the bankruptcy system. So my

458
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 8: job was to look at cases and see if there

459
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 8: were any places where they were not following the bankruptcy

460
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 8: rules and follow up on that.

461
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 6: Okay, and so help us understand a little bit the

462
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 6: timeline as it pertains to you leaving that job over

463
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 6: the last couple of weeks, so your husband develops the

464
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 6: ice block app. At one point you disclose that you're

465
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 6: getting death threats and the like to your employer, to

466
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 6: the Department of Justice, and this all culminates in you

467
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 6: being fired, being asked to leave.

468
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 5: Tell us basically what happened.

469
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 8: Sure, about three weeks ago, my husband, Joshua Aaron, was

470
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 8: dxed and they released our personal address.

471
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 7: Confidential information.

472
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 8: So I preemptively contacted the Department of Justice stating, hey,

473
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 8: there may be a threat here. I wanted to protect

474
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 8: the department as much as I could.

475
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 7: And after that, this was just this.

476
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 8: Past week, Laura Lumer ducted me individually on x and.

477
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 7: That was on Wednesday or Thursday. By Thursday, Laura.

478
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 8: Lumer, according to Tom Homan on a different news channel,

479
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 8: had contacted him and he had contacted the Department of

480
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 8: Justice about me. This was Friday then that I received

481
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 8: an email out of nowhere stating that my employment with

482
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 8: the Department of Justice was terminated, effective immediately.

483
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 7: But here's the thing about that. I wasn't just terminated.

484
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 8: I was targeted, and I was targeted because of Joshua's

485
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 8: involvement with the app.

486
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 6: And as you say, it was the distinction between terminated

487
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 6: and targeted.

488
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 8: Terminated could be for any reason under the sun that

489
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 8: is justifiable by the department or the government as a whole. Targeted,

490
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 8: in my opinion is that I was sought out to

491
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 8: be terminated because of the actions of my steps.

492
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: And I think that that probably true. So let me

493
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: ask it this way. And I don't want to sound insensitive.

494
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 3: It seems like and I don't want to read into

495
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: your own mind, but from your from your husband's perspective,

496
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 3: Johshon's perspective, this this White House is utterly out of

497
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: control and is engaging in, you know, actions that are

498
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: deeply harmful to the community, such that he would design

499
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: this app to protect people against the agents of this

500
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: very government. If if that's and I believe I agree

501
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 3: with him, like I.

502
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 4: Think that his analysis is correct.

503
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: But if that's the analysis going to that same government

504
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: and saying, hey, FYI, my husband, you know, did this,

505
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: did this app, and now we're getting threats. Just wanted

506
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: to let you know so that you can be aware

507
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: of my work schedule, and perhaps do something to protect me.

508
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: U feels naive, like this is the government that is

509
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: doing the thing that your husband clearly believes is wrong

510
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: and evil, Like why, what would wouldn't you expect that

511
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: same government then to be like, oh, you're married to him,

512
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: well you're fired.

513
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 8: I understand that sentiment, but I also have experienced and

514
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 8: strongly believe our government is full of incredible, dedicated people.

515
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 8: And when I worked for the US Trustee program, part

516
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 8: of our mission describes transparency. We advocate for transparency from debtors,

517
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 8: from creditors, from anyone involved. So as a part of

518
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 8: that program, I want to practice what I preach, and

519
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 8: so that's why I preemptively went to them. I also

520
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 8: knew that I could go to that program, and as

521
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 8: far as I was aware at the.

522
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 7: Time these statements, that I was telling them they were

523
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 7: going to protect me.

524
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 8: There may be different factions, different portions of the administration

525
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 8: that just things differently, But the people I've directly encountered

526
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 8: within the federal government as a whole have been dedicated,

527
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 8: just all around quality people. So no, I wouldn't have

528
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 8: expected that from the people I've encountered directly.

529
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 5: And you also explain this.

530
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 6: I think you have minority shares in the company that

531
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 6: holds the IP address for the app, and tell us

532
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 6: about just tell us to what extent you may have

533
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 6: had a financial stake in ice Block and then what

534
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 6: your communication was with the DOJ about that.

535
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 7: So this brings up a good point.

536
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 8: One thing I'd like to mention is that when I

537
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 8: received determination of a termination of employment letter, the reasons

538
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 8: in that letter stated lack of candor during an internal inquiry,

539
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 8: and that just in lay terms, is lying vio mission

540
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 8: or leaving something out. Those reasons differed from the prepared

541
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 8: statement Department of Justice released to the press, which included

542
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 8: describing my relationship to the company that you're stating a

543
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 8: minority share that had been previously disclosed to them, and

544
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 8: then it also insinuated that somehow that relationship endangered the

545
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 8: lives of ice officers and threatened law enforcement. So which

546
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 8: is it? Why was I fired? Because those are two

547
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 8: separate reasons.

548
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, basically, what the d DOJ is saying publicly

549
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: is that you didn't That's what they're alluding to, that

550
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: you didn't disclose that you had this minority share in

551
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: the LLC that operates this. So you're saying that you did,

552
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: and when did you disclose that to them?

553
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 8: Right that I wouldn't be able to cite an exact date.

554
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 8: I can just say in the past it has been disclosed.

555
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: And so so if they had said, okay, well you

556
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: did disclose it. Now you actually are a minority shareholder

557
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: of an app that is intended to disrupt law enforcement,

558
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: would that have been a justifiable reason for them to say, all,

559
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: you're fired.

560
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 7: To begin with that minority share.

561
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 8: By the way, part of my position with the US

562
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 8: Trustee was to investigate companies just to make sure everything's

563
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 8: on the up and up. And as you're probably familiar,

564
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 8: charters incorporation documents, that's a good twenty second search.

565
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 7: With the Secretary of State.

566
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 8: At any time, in addition to my prior disclosure, they

567
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 8: had the ability to check with the State of Texas

568
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 8: and pull those documents, say okay, here's the minority share

569
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 8: that was never concealed.

570
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 7: As for.

571
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 8: Equating that to endangering law enforcement, endangering the people that

572
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 8: are part of the government that I proudly worked for,

573
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 8: I would never put those individuals or those pro in danger,

574
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 8: nor did I have the ability to my work with

575
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 8: the US Trustee Department was absolutely separate from anything involving

576
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 8: immigration or immigration enforcement. I didn't have access to their files,

577
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 8: I didn't have knowledge of their operations.

578
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 7: I had no way to be involved in that.

579
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 6: And what is so like your general response, because this

580
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 6: is and you just made this point as well, you

581
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 6: said it is insulting to me because I dedicated myself

582
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 6: in my career to serving the people of the United States,

583
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 6: and now the DJ is claiming I was attempting to

584
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 6: harm some of them, and that's not true. There has

585
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 6: been some targeting of ICE agents. So what is your

586
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 6: response to the argument that an app like ice Block,

587
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 6: and being at least a minority shareholder in a company

588
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 6: that holds the iphs all of that, what is your

589
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 6: response to the argument that this does make it easier

590
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 6: for anybody who wants to harmon ice officer to harmon

591
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 6: ice officer.

592
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 8: Well, just to reiterate, I am not involved with the

593
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 8: ice block app, but as a citizen, as someone who you.

594
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 7: Know may encounter ice or other situations.

595
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 8: This this ice Block app, as it's stated on their

596
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 8: website and in the app, the intent is to inform,

597
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 8: not obstruct the other applications that are similar like ways

598
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 8: could serve the same function. So the apps themselves do

599
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 8: not endanger anyone. People's actions, people's patients, and people's understanding

600
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 8: of what's going on with ICE operations is what could

601
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 8: change a situation.

602
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 4: Is there any revenue coming from this app?

603
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 7: Not a penny?

604
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 8: Joshua Aaron does not want to profit from people's suffering,

605
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 8: so he does not accept any funds.

606
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 7: For this app.

607
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 4: How much does it cost to run?

608
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 6: Like?

609
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 4: Is it an app like this fairly simple?

610
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: Or is there is it now so widely use that

611
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: there's some significant amount of kind of like cloud costs

612
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 3: or whatever else is associated with running something like this.

613
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: Do you have any sense there.

614
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 7: Are costs involved? But I don't know what they are.

615
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: And do you regret like agreeing to be a minority

616
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: shareholder on it? I mean, like I said, I'm somebody

617
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 3: that thinks that this app is good and we're a

618
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: free country and if somebody wants to let their neighbor

619
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: know that they saw an ICE agent down the street,

620
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 3: they should be able to do that.

621
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: But given what happened, was that a mistake?

622
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 8: No? This company that I hold a minority interest in

623
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 8: was formed years ago, and the purpose of it was

624
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 8: actually to develop a healthcare application that's.

625
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 7: Still in the works.

626
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 8: When the ice clock app was developed and released, Apple

627
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 8: requires a developer account, and the company already had a

628
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 8: developer account with Apple, so that was used basically to

629
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 8: save costs and out of convenienced you.

630
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: Did you know, not to cause a argument at home,

631
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: but did you know when God registered it that he

632
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: used the LLC that you were affiliated with?

633
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 7: I believe I was aware of that.

634
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, because my wife and I actually share an LLC,

635
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,479
Speaker 3: and I could imagine me going and just setting something

636
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: up using it and her later being.

637
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: Like, wait, you did what.

638
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 5: I'm fired.

639
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 7: You're probably familiar.

640
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: Then.

641
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 8: Part of the reason that I'd just taken ownership a

642
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 8: small piece of that company is should anything unfortunately happen

643
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 8: to Joshua, I have the ability to wind down operations,

644
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 8: to close up shop without you know, involving more paperworking courts.

645
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I mean that's basically what we've got going

646
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 4: on too. Yeah. But anyway, so.

647
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: He probably told you you're not you don't quite remember.

648
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 7: You are trying to start an argument?

649
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 5: Is it's messy?

650
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 4: I got it? Got it?

651
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: Well, that argument already happened. If it happened, what's what's

652
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 3: next for you?

653
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 7: Bigger and better things. I am just exploring what those

654
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 7: things will be right now.

655
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 3: All right, Well, keep it, keep us updated. And the

656
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 3: app seems like it's gating and gating in popularity, so

657
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 3: I guess, and this probably only brings it more attention.

658
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: And you know, Lumer's lumor probably boosted it by doing that.

659
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 4: I would think, what do you think.

660
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 8: The last I heard, there were almost a million users,

661
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 8: So that really sounds like ever a crowdsourced app, it

662
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 8: can really be put to good use in the community.

663
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 4: Right well, Carolyn, thanks so much for joining us. Really

664
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 4: appreciate it.

665
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 7: Thank you for having me.

666
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: Got it.

667
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: Not the biggest deal here, But what do you think

668
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: did he tell her that he was using the family

669
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 3: I'll see.

670
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 6: I'm more interested in when she told the Department of

671
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 6: Justice that she had a minority share in the LLBA.

672
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 5: I think is a pretty big question.

673
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 6: Not that I'm aspiring her either way, yeah, yeah, yeah.

674
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 6: And to be honest, like I think, at the end

675
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 6: of the day, if your boss, even if your boss

676
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 6: is wrong, if your boss says we think this app

677
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,720
Speaker 6: is harming our ability to do our work. It seems

678
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 6: inevitable that that's going to happen.

679
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: Now, whether the.

680
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 6: App in and of itself is good or bad, I'm

681
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 6: honestly have two minds done. Pisco asked me the other

682
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 6: day about Alligator Alcatraz, and it's the same thing with

683
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 6: some of this stuff, Like, I'm up two minds about it,

684
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 6: because on the one hand, not having enough detention centers

685
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 6: is what created so much trafficking from cartels through Mexico

686
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 6: because we stopped detaining people while they were waiting asylum and.

687
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 5: All of that same thing.

688
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 6: These Ice guys walking around not identifying themselves, in playing clothes,

689
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: grabbing ramissa os turk off the street, like this stuff

690
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 6: is incredibly disturbing. Then you have to do some of

691
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 6: it because there are actually criminals. So it just I'm

692
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 6: sort of split on the app itself, but it seems

693
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 6: obvious that there was going to be a termination in

694
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 6: this case the.

695
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: Other disturbing element. And before we go, we can put

696
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: up E two here. This is you know footage that's

697
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: gone you know megaviral of an Ice Ice detention center,

698
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: like you know, surreptitiously recorded people living for extremely long

699
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: stretches in these you know, this is not where somebody

700
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: goes for like an hour and then its processed somewhere else.

701
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 3: Like people are like living like basically on top of

702
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: each other inside of inside of these makeshift detention camps.

703
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 6: And not having to do that under the Biden administration,

704
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 6: a Bomb administration, and first Trump administration, not having to

705
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 6: do that is what made so it's so attractive for

706
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 6: that time period that people would come over and claim

707
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 6: asylum because if you have to do that, you don't

708
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 6: have such a an e the opportunity, and first like

709
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 6: this affects people who have legitimate asylum claims, like the

710
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 6: Venezuelan barber who was fleeing communism and ended up in Seacott.

711
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 5: Like it's it's it's messed up.

712
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 3: A lot of countries, you know, managed to control their

713
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: immigration policies without resorting to that though, I mean, or

714
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: this alligator alcatraz Or.

715
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 5: It's so like, I mean a lot of countries don't

716
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 5: have the volume that we have.

717
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 6: But yeah, anyway, anyway, way, yeah, it's everything these days.

718
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 6: You can't we can't have nice things anymore in this country, right,

719
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 6: I guess not.

720
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 5: We can't have competent anything.

721
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 4: Anyway, good luck to Carolyn, Good luck to Marty.

722
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 5: Marty was super interesting. You've known him a.

723
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: While, yeah, going back to hof posts since, yes, since

724
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 3: before he was I think yeah, before he was put

725
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 3: in prison.

726
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 5: Interesting.

727
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it was. It was super fascinating. So we'll

728
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 6: stay on that story, of course, and Ryan you back

729
00:40:58,520 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 6: this week. We're doing Friday.

730
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 4: Uh, I'm if he.

731
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 3: My wife's getting surgery related to getting report taken out,

732
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: so we'll just see when that surgery is.

733
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 4: But I hope to hope to be able to join

734
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 6: Played by your best Sosius to Ohazon, and we will

735
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 6: see you back here soon