Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made, purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore,
Speaker 1: like the South American singer. Yeah, okay, that's I'd like
Speaker 1: to begin. Everybody from Mexico. Hey, guys, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Beargrease Rangdeer. Everyone. That's why we're here. Yes, welcome. This
Speaker 1: is the this is the Christmas edition of the Beargrease Surrender.
Speaker 1: Can we call this one the bear Grease Reindeer? Then? Oh?
Speaker 1: Got it? Play onwards? I have I will, I will
Speaker 1: submit that to bear Grease Reindeer. If there was a Bargrease, rightdear,
Speaker 1: it's dear, would the man? What what a group we
Speaker 1: have today? We have? We have the standard, the standard six.
Speaker 1: I've got Brent Reeves to my left wearing a fine
Speaker 1: pair of overalls and I'd say a war down Bargrease hat.
Speaker 1: Josh Landbridge, Spillmaker, wearing a Lanbridge wearing the land Bridge
Speaker 1: mustache himself Misty Newcomb here to your left. To your
Speaker 1: left Isaac Neil, assistant to the producer of Bargrease podcast,
Speaker 1: just happy to be invited. And to your left is
Speaker 1: the believer ms self Gary nucom good to see you.
Speaker 1: But who you didn't know, who you couldn't have expected,
Speaker 1: who was going to be here? This is the one
Speaker 1: and only Juju Nuom my mother, and well I'll introduce
Speaker 1: the second the second person after this you figured. It
Speaker 1: is so fantastic to have you here. I am really
Speaker 1: glad to be here. I'm honored to be here at
Speaker 1: the annual Christmas party of bear Grease. Why don't you
Speaker 1: tell us what you've brought for us all? Oh, I
Speaker 1: brought some Christmas cookies like I did last year. And
Speaker 1: I'm just happy to be here and send merry Christmas
Speaker 1: greetings to all your listeners and let them know I
Speaker 1: do read all of their comments and I get on
Speaker 1: the if he does something wrong, are ignores something? So
Speaker 1: oh no, but sometimes you don't answer them. It's so
Speaker 1: great to have you. Guji has brought the Christmas spirit
Speaker 1: honest today. Yes, okay, the second guest that we have
Speaker 1: very special guests a first time guest on the Bear
Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, the One and Only Bailey Reeves. This is
Speaker 1: Brent Reeves daughter. Are you what are you doing for
Speaker 1: Christmas this year? Opening presents? Wow? Nice? Well, why don't
Speaker 1: you wish everybody merry Christmas? Merry Christmas? What would you
Speaker 1: say if you were giving advice to people that are
Speaker 1: going to see their grandpa's, grandma's, their mom and dads,
Speaker 1: their cousins and they're all gonna get together, like what
Speaker 1: what do they need to hear from the Reeves family
Speaker 1: that's gonna like really set off this Christmas? What would
Speaker 1: you say, Bailey? Um, make sure you spend as much
Speaker 1: time as you can with him, because you don't know
Speaker 1: how much time you have with them, so just make
Speaker 1: sure that make sure that you um spent as much
Speaker 1: time with them this Christmas. That's good, that's very good. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for being here, Mrs Bailey, and good job Bailey.
Speaker 1: You are welcome to stay in here or y'all can
Speaker 1: y'all can leave. Let's roll. Good job Bailey, Good job GIU.
Speaker 1: Except for we would like to discourage all comments, um
Speaker 1: that are me towards Clay which oh that is monitoring.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna put on every post I ever make.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put on every post I ever make, an
Speaker 1: asterisk that says Juju is watching. Be nice to me.
Speaker 1: Can we just start a hot hashtag watching watching? I
Speaker 1: think you gotta just have her respond to all the comments. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've always thought back in the day, when Clay was
Speaker 1: making videos bear hunting videos, people would leave the worst comments,
Speaker 1: I mean the worst, the meanest. Those those I guess
Speaker 1: it's pete to people I don't know, but they're terrible,
Speaker 1: and they would say things like your mom should be
Speaker 1: the hammer. I mean they would they wouldn't say horrible
Speaker 1: things about like violent things that should be done to
Speaker 1: our kids or to Clay's mom, and they would curse
Speaker 1: your And I thought it would be nice to have
Speaker 1: Juju read those comments out loud and just have a
Speaker 1: video of Juji reading these, you know, not nice in
Speaker 1: the sense of like, oh this is heartwarming, but just
Speaker 1: so that they realized, like Juju is a really sweet person,
Speaker 1: and before you say mean things about her and her grandkids,
Speaker 1: you should probably realize who you're talking about. Yeah, that's great. Well, so, uh,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something I've got a few little little
Speaker 1: things I want to go through on this episode. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this the secret episode, the bonus
Speaker 1: episode of the what became a four part series on
Speaker 1: Our Secret Agent Man where we had Artie Stewart undercover
Speaker 1: wildlife agent. And then the bonus episode when I met
Speaker 1: I went and met with Claude Maxwell in Ohio was
Speaker 1: referred to as Target number two only, which is a
Speaker 1: which is a major deal, really major deal. Kind of
Speaker 1: a sensitive deal in a way too. So. But before
Speaker 1: we get to that, um lots of bear grease hats,
Speaker 1: sightings in the wild. It's incredible. Yeah, it started off
Speaker 1: with the guy on the on the Bengals in Kansas
Speaker 1: City Chiefs game. I don't know that it started off
Speaker 1: that way. I feel like that's more of an apex,
Speaker 1: kind of an apex, right right right. It started out
Speaker 1: with good every day, hard working Americans buying bear grease
Speaker 1: hats and wearing them. And then one of those good
Speaker 1: hard working, everyday Americans went to an NFL game, got spotted,
Speaker 1: got spotted, and then and then another guy was watching
Speaker 1: a hockey game, a hockey game, and there's a Burgharas
Speaker 1: guy just giving him heck and uh, and so I
Speaker 1: put that. I put that online too, and then the
Speaker 1: comments are just full of people saying, hey, I saw
Speaker 1: a guy with the Burghera's hat and we went and
Speaker 1: talked and listen to this. Missy and I went to
Speaker 1: Cabella's two days ago because I was I thought this
Speaker 1: is a pretty good story too. Well, I hope this
Speaker 1: person is listening. We're at Cabella's and we're in we're
Speaker 1: in line and a Cabella's worker goes, I like your
Speaker 1: hat and I said thanks, and I kind of thought
Speaker 1: maybe it was it was a lady. I thought she
Speaker 1: might just like the design. And I just said hey, thanks,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of kept walking and she says
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite podcasts, and I just I
Speaker 1: just said, oh cool, yeah, yeah, and we kept walking
Speaker 1: and Misty was like, don't tell her. Uh and then uh,
Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty cool and uh she recognized
Speaker 1: the hat with the you know the podcast and I responded,
Speaker 1: it's a mediocre. I mean, it's got a lot of runway.
Speaker 1: Who was who was telling? Uh? Was it was it?
Speaker 1: Did you too? That just told us the story about someone? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What did she say? Two people ran into each other?
Speaker 1: That we're both wearing him and this story has told.
Speaker 1: This story was told to her by a person who
Speaker 1: was with one of the people wearing the hats. He
Speaker 1: said that two guys, one that he knew and one
Speaker 1: that he didn't, ran into each other and they started
Speaker 1: talking to each other like it was a different language.
Speaker 1: Does he want the hat now? Is he trying to
Speaker 1: get in on the hat train? Who the guy who
Speaker 1: related the story? Why did she get a hat? She
Speaker 1: was getting a hat for some reason. It wasn't for
Speaker 1: that guy. Okay, somebody got a hat though. I went
Speaker 1: on a trip this weekend. Flew down to Texas. Friday morning,
Speaker 1: five thirty at the airport. There's a guy sitting there
Speaker 1: with a bear grease hat. Saturday night, Rockport, Texas. Eating
Speaker 1: at a Mexican restaurant. A guy comes in with a
Speaker 1: bear grease hat. Really, what do you order? We left
Speaker 1: before they ordered. He was he was very appreciative, very
Speaker 1: polite young man. Maybe his name was Trevor. I asked it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm gonna remember this. I don't
Speaker 1: know Trevor from Rockport, Texas. How did you approach this guy?
Speaker 1: I said, Hey, this is weird. That's that's though, if
Speaker 1: a guy has a bear grease hat on, he wants
Speaker 1: somebody to come up and fist bumping and grow up. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he received it. Well, that's great. I love it. I
Speaker 1: love it. Third thing on the list the Moose episode
Speaker 1: on me. Did you enjoy it? That was one of
Speaker 1: the better episodes. Why was it? People have said that,
Speaker 1: They're like, why, it was just because you because you
Speaker 1: can't trust people who know you. You can't. You can't
Speaker 1: even trust you herself. Josh, certainly of the hunt, the
Speaker 1: idea of the hunt, the fact that it's so remote,
Speaker 1: it's such a such a it's it's the kind of
Speaker 1: hunt that not a lot of people will get to
Speaker 1: do in their lives. And then you go for nine
Speaker 1: days and you got jack nothing, and then you get
Speaker 1: that last minute. I mean it was like it was
Speaker 1: like it was set up, you know what I mean
Speaker 1: talking about Yeah, Like I didn't even remember we had
Speaker 1: that conversation when I said, man, I thought it was
Speaker 1: your year like that that wasn't I mean, none of
Speaker 1: these scenes were set up scenes. Literally, we were having
Speaker 1: that conversation and there were two dudes behind us and
Speaker 1: we didn't know filming us, but we kind of knew him,
Speaker 1: but like that, that is what someone who set up
Speaker 1: a hunt to succeed would say, Can we trust you?
Speaker 1: Did you plant the moose there? Oh? I think you
Speaker 1: may have. I think you packed in the moose and
Speaker 1: you planted it just in case helicoptered in a movie.
Speaker 1: That's all. I'm dropped him in there. What's what's funny
Speaker 1: is that when you started saying stuff like that, like
Speaker 1: people are gonna believe it. Yeah, absolutely, we've inter helicopter.
Speaker 1: I think you should cut that out there. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: what's funny is that I actually posted a video on
Speaker 1: the TikTok of me and Ranella in Alaska at the
Speaker 1: airport and a Chinook helicopter comes in. True story, Chinook
Speaker 1: helicopter comes in. I video it. I turned the camera
Speaker 1: to Ranella and I say, that's the way we're getting
Speaker 1: in there, right, And he says that's the way, which
Speaker 1: it is clearly not true. This is a U. S. Military,
Speaker 1: Like I want to say, they said it was a
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar helicopter, and so I joked that that's
Speaker 1: what was taken us in and he said, that's how
Speaker 1: we helicoptered in the animals. It was a joke. People
Speaker 1: believe it, well, I don't know it was on it's
Speaker 1: on the talk. I think it can only be beneficial
Speaker 1: to have people out there talking about it, spreading rumors.
Speaker 1: Then people go watch the episode, bumps up. There's no
Speaker 1: bad press. So I'm getting to the Dollar build. Dad,
Speaker 1: did you see the episode yet? What do you think?
Speaker 1: I didn't like it? You didn't? Whoa, because I'm sleepy.
Speaker 1: I want to take a nap. You want to take
Speaker 1: a nap right now? I'm retired, man, I'm not used
Speaker 1: to working. No, No, it was. It was excellent. It
Speaker 1: was excellent. Uh you know when you told the story,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think where I heard the story. You
Speaker 1: told that y'all were in camp ready to go packed up,
Speaker 1: and Ronella said, I'm going to the possum front. Yeah Bill, yeah, um.
Speaker 1: And they didn't tell that part. Yeah, you know. To me,
Speaker 1: you know that that was a highlight. Actually it was.
Speaker 1: It was real good without it. But I enjoyed that
Speaker 1: part because it tells you a lot about Ronnella. Why
Speaker 1: he is where he is is. I mean, you're worn out,
Speaker 1: you've been there ten days. This guy still fired up,
Speaker 1: wanting to kill something. Yeah, his instincts took him to
Speaker 1: the exact correct spot yep, and then turns it over
Speaker 1: to you. So yeah, and I thought the same thing
Speaker 1: that I really wish they had included that, because if
Speaker 1: you remember the story that I told about that moose hunt,
Speaker 1: we were all but like packing up to leave, like
Speaker 1: we're done. We'd already like shot the ending scene of
Speaker 1: the video and we're going home after nine days with
Speaker 1: no moose and like really discouraged, and then just on
Speaker 1: a whim, we don't even have time to kill a
Speaker 1: moose because the planes are coming, and Rannella, it wasn't me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I was done. Was there some particular
Speaker 1: reason that he went to that spot? Just it was
Speaker 1: no been there in a few days, okay, but it
Speaker 1: was the it was the worst spot we had to,
Speaker 1: like we never we've never seen a bull moose there
Speaker 1: for some reason, but we just hadn't been there in
Speaker 1: a couple of days. And so he was just like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk up to the porcupine. And then I
Speaker 1: was like, well, how far was it? Probably half mile,
Speaker 1: so it would have been just as a whole lot
Speaker 1: easier just to kick back weight on the airplane you
Speaker 1: get there and nap. Yeah, like I thought. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was we were done, man, like done. And because even
Speaker 1: earlier that day the producer had said, hey, we really
Speaker 1: can't kill a moose anymore because wait, so how did
Speaker 1: you resolve it then? Man, Ronnell is dead serious about hunting,
Speaker 1: like he was just like, we'll figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't think we're really planning to kill one. Sure,
Speaker 1: but like I mean, because the planes were coming and
Speaker 1: you shot one, did you just tell the planes got you? Well,
Speaker 1: So the way it worked is the planes were coming
Speaker 1: in the more and it was late in the evening.
Speaker 1: They aren't real fast, and everybody was involved well, and
Speaker 1: we were able to bump the plane back, which we
Speaker 1: didn't think we could do because the moose season ended,
Speaker 1: so all the hunters they had out, we're all trying
Speaker 1: to get home and so it was real. It was like,
Speaker 1: well they may not be able to get you out.
Speaker 1: Uh if you if you lose your spot, it maybe
Speaker 1: two days before they can come get you. So that's
Speaker 1: what they were worried about it. But it just the
Speaker 1: way it worked out. We were able to say, hey,
Speaker 1: come it come later in the day and they were
Speaker 1: like that's no problem. So it ended up working out,
Speaker 1: but it was it was pretty incredible. But the antlers
Speaker 1: look awesome up on the wall in there, Yeah, they do.
Speaker 1: They do. So this is what I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about though. In a picture that's on the f h
Speaker 1: F Gear Instagram page, there's a picture me glass and
Speaker 1: in Alaska and I've got I've got my big puffy
Speaker 1: jacket on, and I've got their new bino harness, which
Speaker 1: they've got a new bino harness they're coming out with.
Speaker 1: And at the top of that Botto harness you'll see
Speaker 1: a dollar bill and the American dollar bill. And somebody
Speaker 1: zoomed in and spotted that American dollar bill and I
Speaker 1: I wanted to explain why that was there. It was
Speaker 1: the just randomly I found it in my pocket while
Speaker 1: I was hunting. We're in the back country for nine
Speaker 1: days with like six people, and I had the thought
Speaker 1: that if things go to pot and they don't come
Speaker 1: to get us, that this dollar bill, it would be
Speaker 1: the start of a great novel. You with me, six
Speaker 1: people in the wilderness, that they would find on your
Speaker 1: one thing that represents the the lost civilization that has
Speaker 1: now been destroyed let's say let's say let's say we're
Speaker 1: out in the wilderness, the apocalypse happens and the earth
Speaker 1: is destroyed. Everybody's dead except for us because we're way
Speaker 1: in the back country. And whatever got us didn't think
Speaker 1: about us in the back country. This American dollar bill,
Speaker 1: this is this is the start of a novel. And
Speaker 1: it's called the American dollar Bill. And and this is
Speaker 1: what happens when you're in the back country too long.
Speaker 1: So this dollar bill then, because we have to build
Speaker 1: a whole new like like human order amongst like the
Speaker 1: six of us, you know, and whoever has the dollar
Speaker 1: bill has the power of the castle. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: the novel is about that nap sounding a whole lot better.
Speaker 1: Is this a sequel to American Buffalo? In some ways
Speaker 1: we talked about this NonStop. My novel about the treachery,
Speaker 1: backstabbing in every character would reveal a part of human
Speaker 1: nature that is in eight in people. But at the
Speaker 1: end there would be like some massive redemption because it's
Speaker 1: bargaries with me. That was the main reason I kept
Speaker 1: the dollar bill close. But the second practic, a little
Speaker 1: more functional reason, was I said I would give that
Speaker 1: dollar to anybody that could find me a black bear
Speaker 1: that I could shoot. Yeah, I had a black bear attack.
Speaker 1: You keep the dollar. Nobody found me a black bear.
Speaker 1: We saw a black bearar was too far so didn't qualify.
Speaker 1: I was like, I got to have a black bear
Speaker 1: that's like in range, you know that I could actually
Speaker 1: take And if you find me that bear. This dollar
Speaker 1: bill is yours. Do you still have it? I think
Speaker 1: I spent it. Cold coke have more value up there
Speaker 1: in Alaska. Josh, tell us about your recent I have
Speaker 1: reached uh microlebrity celebrity startom. I was down at the
Speaker 1: down at the river the other day on last weekend
Speaker 1: fly fishing and h the fish were biting. Good man,
Speaker 1: We're just pull them out, right. But I moved down
Speaker 1: to a new section and to drive up a little
Speaker 1: bit where I was at and I moved down to
Speaker 1: a new section. Can you drop me a pen? I'll
Speaker 1: put it on Instagram page. I moved down to a
Speaker 1: little section. There was a guy fishing on the other
Speaker 1: side of the river, and I, you know, I gave
Speaker 1: him a few yards so he could catch some fish there.
Speaker 1: But I noticed as I was walking down he wasn't
Speaker 1: catching any fish and I just I walked into the
Speaker 1: water and just went bam, bam bam. Caught three fish
Speaker 1: right back to back. And he goes, man, you're on fire.
Speaker 1: And I said, I said, well, you know, I told
Speaker 1: him what I was fishing with. I said, try this.
Speaker 1: I said, they're biting these really good. So so tie
Speaker 1: one of those on if you got one, and uh
Speaker 1: he he fishes and he did. I pulled another one
Speaker 1: out and he goes, he goes, is your name, Josh?
Speaker 1: I was like, uh yeah, and he goes. He goes,
Speaker 1: like as in the land Bridge. I was like, I thought,
Speaker 1: I recognized your voice. Yeah, he recognized you. He recognized
Speaker 1: my voice. He goes, he goes, Bear Grease, my favorite
Speaker 1: podcast man. His name with Stokes. He was swearing a hat,
Speaker 1: but not a Bear Grease hat. You hate to see it.
Speaker 1: That's good to hear, that's great to hear. I'm living large,
Speaker 1: living larch, living large. Next thing on list, Brent Reeves
Speaker 1: is hunting my dog, hoot hoot Brent. So I we
Speaker 1: live in the in the Ozarks, in the mountains. And
Speaker 1: if you were if you were explaining this to a
Speaker 1: kid and you were talking about the the the bio,
Speaker 1: I swear I'm looking for, like the bio productivity of
Speaker 1: a region. Okay, you would, you would essentially be talking
Speaker 1: about at a real foundational level, the richness of the
Speaker 1: soil literally translates into the how many how many animals
Speaker 1: and the carrying capacity of the land for all kinds
Speaker 1: of stuff like the size of trees, the amount of raccoons,
Speaker 1: the amount of deer, the amount of waterfowl, how big
Speaker 1: deer antlers are. It all goes back to the soil.
Speaker 1: Well in the Ozarks. The Ozarks, my friends, are is
Speaker 1: an eroded plateau, an uplifted plateau that was was bumped
Speaker 1: when the South American continent bumped into the North American continent.
Speaker 1: This is I'm going to start a new podcast called
Speaker 1: orogeny mountain forming process. Okay, So the the the the
Speaker 1: spring Field, It's called the Springfield Plateau, which was bulged,
Speaker 1: a bulged sex and of land that eroded. So the
Speaker 1: Ozarks were formed by erosion, which means all the good
Speaker 1: stuff left. Now I'm fully in. But where exactly where
Speaker 1: it went into the to the to the Gulf coastal region,
Speaker 1: the the the basically the Mississippi River Delta. It literally
Speaker 1: formed the dirt of Louisiana. Okay, come on, And so
Speaker 1: the raccoon hunting is better down there. That's exactly as
Speaker 1: I wish you were down there hunting, because I've had
Speaker 1: to had this call through the hides that were left,
Speaker 1: and I only got enough for four more hats. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about that in a second. So Brent lives in
Speaker 1: the Delta region of Arkansas. So Arkansas would be split
Speaker 1: into like the mountainous regions in the Delta region, which
Speaker 1: would be influenced by the great rivers of the heart
Speaker 1: Land of America, the primary river being the Mississippi River,
Speaker 1: but also the White River, um Arkansas, Black River, Arkansas
Speaker 1: River River, Cash Money River. And so Brett hunts in
Speaker 1: the flat country where there's a ton of coons. So
Speaker 1: he took my dog. I said all that to say,
Speaker 1: you know, life's connected, Josh, It's connected, is why it's
Speaker 1: a terrible word. Mountain. Look at this, hold on. I've
Speaker 1: got a book here that it would explain it all
Speaker 1: more than one. The Appalachian Wash, it all orogen in
Speaker 1: the United States. See that textbook right there, that's as
Speaker 1: thick as your thigh. Never read it, but it's it
Speaker 1: has that word mountainforming processes. Brett, you're hunting, hoot? How's
Speaker 1: she doing? She did good night before last. I went
Speaker 1: over to the farm. We cut her loose, or I
Speaker 1: cut her loose. Man, she hunt gets you on it
Speaker 1: out three hundred three and fifty yards, made a big loop,
Speaker 1: kind of bumps something a little bit, may have been
Speaker 1: a deer, may have been a rabbit. I don't know
Speaker 1: what it was, which she barked a little bit. But
Speaker 1: it's good he doesn't, you know, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: She's got all the tools. If it all has got
Speaker 1: all the tools. The only other thing that that you
Speaker 1: need is the desire for it to go, and she
Speaker 1: has that desire to go. So even if she's chasing
Speaker 1: off game, I can fix I can fix it, yeah,
Speaker 1: because she's got the hunt. You're halfway there. So we
Speaker 1: go out and she comes back and move over to
Speaker 1: a different spot and turn loose. And it's cold, man,
Speaker 1: And there a lot of folks up north hunt when
Speaker 1: it's below freezing stuff in their tree and coons on
Speaker 1: the outside of trees. But that down here, if it
Speaker 1: gets below thirty two, coons get scarce on the outside.
Speaker 1: In the delta in the delta appear. It's a little
Speaker 1: different in the delta, is all I'm speaking about right now.
Speaker 1: So and if it gets twenty eight, if it's eight
Speaker 1: and below, if you catch a coon on the outside,
Speaker 1: he's probably laying dead on the highway, I mean, because
Speaker 1: it's you just don't see him out there. That they're
Speaker 1: into then to stay warm. So it's man, it's hovering.
Speaker 1: It's like thirty four degrees and she's she's circling and barking,
Speaker 1: and she's really excited. I know she's smelling the coon
Speaker 1: because I'm watching her. I watched her on the Garmen Way,
Speaker 1: the way she fed that or struck that track, and
Speaker 1: you can tell the way she's just moving just in
Speaker 1: a little intricate left and right and zigzags, and she's
Speaker 1: moving real slow, so you know she's not chasing something
Speaker 1: that she's seeing. She's on an actual track. She's smelling
Speaker 1: a coon. She gets one spot man and she's she
Speaker 1: doesn't locate, she doesn't do the long ball locate. She
Speaker 1: just starts barking and then she stopped. So I slipped in.
Speaker 1: I snuck in there with my red light on. She
Speaker 1: didn't paying anything to me, and I got with it
Speaker 1: about forty yards or where she's at, and I look
Speaker 1: up in the tree and I find a coon. Coon's
Speaker 1: looking right at me, and she is right beneath it.
Speaker 1: But it's a leaning tree, so and the coon is
Speaker 1: like from the trunk of the tree, is out probably
Speaker 1: twenty and twenty and probably twenty ft off the ground.
Speaker 1: So she the the coon's been there a long time.
Speaker 1: You can tell he's in a big, comfortable place where
Speaker 1: coons would lay up when it's cold like that. So
Speaker 1: though she just couldn't locate where it was that, she
Speaker 1: could smell the scent in the air, but she couldn't
Speaker 1: smell where the coon went up the tree, so, which
Speaker 1: was really a feat in itself because the track was
Speaker 1: so old. But she did really good. So but I
Speaker 1: didn't knock the coon out to her, and she eventually
Speaker 1: quit it and we went on on home, all positives.
Speaker 1: She did good. Last night we went I turned her
Speaker 1: loose and she absolutely scalded the hair off a two deer.
Speaker 1: She put him down the road. Oh yeah, and I
Speaker 1: know a dent. It was a deer because I I
Speaker 1: she took off struck and she started making a loop.
Speaker 1: She started coming back to me, and I stepped out
Speaker 1: in this old wood robe, turned my red light on it.
Speaker 1: A big old oh deer come smoking across the hoop
Speaker 1: was right behind so it which it's fine. She didn't
Speaker 1: run it that far. She stopped. She co yeah, she
Speaker 1: come on, and she come on back to me. I
Speaker 1: moved down and she she did another one in that time.
Speaker 1: I give her a little correction on the collar to stop,
Speaker 1: and she stopped. She come back to me and she
Speaker 1: hunt after that. Did she keep hunting? Yeah? Man, I
Speaker 1: remember when I was hunting. When I was hunting Fern
Speaker 1: r I p Fern. I was one of the first
Speaker 1: times I went with another good coon hunter that had
Speaker 1: a good dog, and Fern was probably eleven twelve months old,
Speaker 1: and turned her loose and it was full moon night
Speaker 1: and she just scalded. As Brent said something that was
Speaker 1: not because they just took it out across She by
Speaker 1: herself just took it out across a wide open field,
Speaker 1: just barking every breath. I mean just sounds like she's
Speaker 1: about to catch the thing. I mean, ran it out
Speaker 1: of here, and you know, and and He's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: no doubt. It was a trash game and Uh. I
Speaker 1: was kind of upset about it, you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of like gone it. Why did she do that? And
Speaker 1: my buddy said, My buddy was like, Clay, that's good.
Speaker 1: I mean, she she about she wore that thing out,
Speaker 1: so she had the desire, she had the want, she
Speaker 1: had the go and uh because like Brent said, you
Speaker 1: can break him off off game, but you can't put
Speaker 1: that fire in them. And so eventually broke her off. Dear.
Speaker 1: But even as good as Fern was a try and
Speaker 1: coon's she would run. I never really could figure it
Speaker 1: out if it was a deer coyotes. But because she
Speaker 1: was about five years old about once or twice a winner,
Speaker 1: she just smoked something that wasn't a coon, and you
Speaker 1: know it wasn't. I had never said that when she
Speaker 1: was alive. Stimulation, the stimulation that's center on that collar,
Speaker 1: it was not pain compliance. All that does is a
Speaker 1: enough to break your concentration. So it was nothing. It
Speaker 1: would Even Misty has one of those for me, Well
Speaker 1: you need to turn that up because he tells that
Speaker 1: story about the Washington. I'm talking to her and it's
Speaker 1: like I just like I just kind of like went,
Speaker 1: I don't really feel pain but I just feel like
Speaker 1: restarted and then she she breaks your concentration. That's all,
Speaker 1: that's all. But she Brent's hunting who and you've been
Speaker 1: You've been nutting quite a bit though. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: We had some folks come down, some folks that participated
Speaker 1: in a contest we had with the Bear Hunting Magazine
Speaker 1: and Blood Origins, and some folks came down from to
Speaker 1: live up here northwest Arkansas. Ryan and Heather Harris came
Speaker 1: down and we hunted with Michael suns By lights. We
Speaker 1: hunted over there where we hunted. Uh and oh, Josh Isaac,
Speaker 1: you guys just put a coon hunting video up that
Speaker 1: we filmed last year. Yeah, we were, we were there.
Speaker 1: We were there at that plug and um and tree.
Speaker 1: I think we hunted two nights. It was cold and rainy,
Speaker 1: and we treat I think lemonre twelve coons both nights,
Speaker 1: I mean total, you know, so it was we hunt
Speaker 1: a lot though. That's good, that's good. Talk to me
Speaker 1: about the coon skins. Well, we I've got six hats
Speaker 1: made and I went to go start what I thought
Speaker 1: was gonna be six more. But we're kind of digging
Speaker 1: into the bottom of the barrel of the coon pads.
Speaker 1: They're they're getting a little small and scraggly down there.
Speaker 1: They they they you know, they send those they send
Speaker 1: those hides back, all strung together. And it's like I
Speaker 1: didn't I wasn't real strategic about the first ones. I
Speaker 1: was grabbing out. But somehow they got all the bad
Speaker 1: ones in the middle and all the nice ones on
Speaker 1: the outside because I started grabbing. I'm like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I can't so it. Uh. I mean I've got enough.
Speaker 1: I cut enough pieces that I got four more from half.
Speaker 1: So how many hats do we have? Will be timid,
Speaker 1: not counting the one out including that one, and I've
Speaker 1: got I've got that my first prototype. I can probably
Speaker 1: turn into a useful one too. What about it if
Speaker 1: I got you a couple of possum skins, could you
Speaker 1: make a hat with that? With the nilo It's a
Speaker 1: great question. There's a difference low on the wood. I'll
Speaker 1: look forward to seeing those. Let's talk about the topic
Speaker 1: at hand this fourth episode. That didn't see that one coming? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what how do you think? It's it's hard to gauge
Speaker 1: what people would I would think about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I got a lot I got a lot of feedback
Speaker 1: on it, but just you know, you have had to
Speaker 1: have listened to all the episodes to kind of get
Speaker 1: why this was significant. Yep. And it was significant for
Speaker 1: me to go and meet with Claude, who who all
Speaker 1: just started off at the very beginning, and just say
Speaker 1: I had a ton of respect for him for meeting
Speaker 1: with me, and I did my best to really show
Speaker 1: the character that this guy has. And I mean the
Speaker 1: whole point of meeting with him and and showing who
Speaker 1: he was today is to show that you hear about
Speaker 1: somebody that's a poacher, bad poacher, you would think a
Speaker 1: certain way about who that person would be. I mean,
Speaker 1: especially in a day with internet and internet forums and
Speaker 1: just we label people so quickly of who this this
Speaker 1: person is, and then when you see somebody that the
Speaker 1: result or thirty years later, they're not who you thought
Speaker 1: they would be. I think that's real healthy for us
Speaker 1: to not be so quick to really bring judgment on somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, and um, and so it was really interesting
Speaker 1: one to meet with Claude, who I really do have
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for. What do you guys think?
Speaker 1: I listened to it twice and I I felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, such an incredible story from both sides. But
Speaker 1: I really felt like Claude was kind of the hero
Speaker 1: of the story. I mean not because not just because
Speaker 1: he got his story out, you know. You know, we
Speaker 1: can look at and say, well, he really wasn't that
Speaker 1: mad at a guy. He had seventy four game violations,
Speaker 1: but he really wasn't that bad of a guy. But
Speaker 1: he I appreciated so much how transparent he was about
Speaker 1: everything and how he didn't let that thing define him,
Speaker 1: you know, and he didn't carry a resentment, but instead
Speaker 1: he literally made an overnight change of who he was
Speaker 1: and how he was going to live the rest of
Speaker 1: his life. And man, that that thing opens up doors.
Speaker 1: I feel like the decisions that he made opened up
Speaker 1: doors for success in business, success with his family. Who
Speaker 1: knows what it could have done to his marriage, you know,
Speaker 1: but now you look at him now and you think
Speaker 1: that's not something that just happened, but really that his
Speaker 1: life was the product of those decisions thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: and that makes that guy hero. You know. He didn't
Speaker 1: the system didn't reform him. His choices reformed them. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: If we were all known if our biography or if
Speaker 1: our label, it was all from the worst day that
Speaker 1: we ever had, you know, I mean everybody you see
Speaker 1: would be bad. That guy did something and he learned
Speaker 1: his lesson and he became obviously a very important part
Speaker 1: of that community, which puts him in my community. And years,
Speaker 1: if we're hunters, he were all in that community. He
Speaker 1: did he proved that what what was set out to
Speaker 1: do worked and that I would I would. That guy's
Speaker 1: welcome to go hunting with me anytime. You know, I
Speaker 1: read a book about Neil Armstrong. For years, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: do any kind of interviews. It wouldn't do anything, wouldn't
Speaker 1: talk about anything as far as him going, you know,
Speaker 1: being the first guy on the moon. And he was
Speaker 1: up in his seventies, early seventies when they wrote this book,
Speaker 1: when he authorized this book to be and the guy
Speaker 1: was interviewing and asked him why he didn't cash in
Speaker 1: on being the first guy to step on the moon
Speaker 1: because once it once he came back, he got out
Speaker 1: of space program and he went and taught at a
Speaker 1: college in Ohio, taught engineering. He didn't do book tours,
Speaker 1: he didn't do speaking engagements, he didn't do anything about it,
Speaker 1: and the guy told me said, well, he didn't think
Speaker 1: it was right for him to receive all the accolades
Speaker 1: when it was nearly took nearly four hundred thousand people
Speaker 1: working together to get him to the moon. And he
Speaker 1: said there there was nobody in that system that was
Speaker 1: any or that he wasn't as important as anybody else
Speaker 1: or more important anybody else in it. And he did
Speaker 1: not want to be known for one singular accomplishment when
Speaker 1: he had lived his whole life, that was something he
Speaker 1: did one day. And you can look at this the
Speaker 1: same way. Yeah, So that's like the positive, positive side
Speaker 1: of it, but also you can apply it to the negative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't. I mean I have I don't have
Speaker 1: any sympathy. I have empathy for him because it affected
Speaker 1: his whole family, and that I wouldn't want to be
Speaker 1: known for just one singular thing. If it was if
Speaker 1: I was gonna be known for one single thing, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have any thing to do with my work. It
Speaker 1: would have something to do with I can't literally discuss
Speaker 1: that yet, are we under I think I think it
Speaker 1: was good. It's a great lesson, and I'm I'm really
Speaker 1: pleased and proud that the guy did what he did.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. I think there's an interesting conversation to
Speaker 1: be had about the nature of the justice system and
Speaker 1: how it often functions versus how we say it is
Speaker 1: to function. Right, we aspire to have a restorative justice
Speaker 1: system where you have transgressed, you go through this, and
Speaker 1: you don't do that anymore, Like that's what the system
Speaker 1: is supposed to be set up. Oftentimes we don't approach
Speaker 1: it in that way, and I think that's a rabbit
Speaker 1: hole that we could go down, and there's no point
Speaker 1: in doing it because it will take forever and probably
Speaker 1: not produce much fruit. But this is a perfect example
Speaker 1: of restorative justice. Like he's guilty, he said it so
Speaker 1: on the podcast. But then that to me and I
Speaker 1: think probably to you, which is why you did this episode,
Speaker 1: is less interesting than how he reacted once that happened,
Speaker 1: and we can see that throughout the fruit of his life.
Speaker 1: You talked about it with his kids, how he has
Speaker 1: good relationships with his kids who are productive members of society.
Speaker 1: I think the Bowling Alley is an incredible example. Not
Speaker 1: to say that it's altruism or whatever, like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: it's it's a business, right, but the idea that he
Speaker 1: invested in this thing in this small community, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's going to provide an outlet for kids and
Speaker 1: people to have believe Like these are all examples of
Speaker 1: like the fruit of changing and going in a different
Speaker 1: direction and saying I'm going to be a productive member
Speaker 1: of society. I'm going to give back to society. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I felt like you made a very compelling case in
Speaker 1: the podcast about this, so much so that when we
Speaker 1: got to the point where it was like Andy lost
Speaker 1: his hunting license forever, I was like, dang, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: it hit me, like I was like, that sucks, Like
Speaker 1: he seems like such a great dude. I that sucks
Speaker 1: that he can't hunt anymore. And then like obviously we
Speaker 1: were resolved that in the nature of the story, and
Speaker 1: and I just felt like it showed the powerful impact
Speaker 1: of hoping for redemption in a story, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Um. And also a side thing, This may
Speaker 1: be speaking out of term, but uh, I just uh
Speaker 1: speaking to the listening audience, Like Claude didn't ask for
Speaker 1: any of this to happen to him the podcast, and
Speaker 1: I feel like you had mentioned that it was turning
Speaker 1: a lot of attention on him, and so I just
Speaker 1: would I think I think it'd be cool to appeal
Speaker 1: to the audience to say, if you are in a
Speaker 1: position to go there or interact with him, like, be cool. Uh.
Speaker 1: And even if you're even if it's a positive thing,
Speaker 1: if you want to support him, just remember that he
Speaker 1: didn't ask for any of this attention. This happened years ago.
Speaker 1: Like the old guy outside the sporting goods store said,
Speaker 1: like you you're talking about it like it happened yesterday.
Speaker 1: This happened years ago. Man. You know, I really did
Speaker 1: apologize to Claude. And when you record an apology and
Speaker 1: listen to it, you sometimes wish you'd have done it different,
Speaker 1: But so you're gonna do it again. Well, no, for me,
Speaker 1: it was interesting. I actually talked to Steve you know
Speaker 1: about it about I said, uh, I was getting his
Speaker 1: advice and kind of how to handle this thing. And uh,
Speaker 1: and I told him, I said, man, it never even
Speaker 1: occurred to me that these guys would still be here.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why. I thought, like all poach,
Speaker 1: all poachers are like old and not here anymore, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And like all these guys are
Speaker 1: still here well, and there was some like modicum of
Speaker 1: respect for that because we from but it just feels
Speaker 1: so removed, like why would they hear about it or what? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Well, it kind of even
Speaker 1: goes into the idea of what you how you handle
Speaker 1: a criminal quote unquote, like someone who's been it's just
Speaker 1: like there there they you know, they're not as an
Speaker 1: important there there to be cast out of society, well
Speaker 1: in terms of like far but just no, I mean
Speaker 1: like in terms of the social graces that we afford them.
Speaker 1: And so I never so I told Ronella, I said, uh,
Speaker 1: I said, it never even occurred to me that these
Speaker 1: guys are still around. And he laughed and said, Clay,
Speaker 1: as a writer, you always have to assume that they're
Speaker 1: very much alive. And he laughed and I was like, noted, uh,
Speaker 1: And not that I would have done anything different. I
Speaker 1: mean like I just wouldn't have not, Like the story
Speaker 1: was interesting to me and we had access. So much
Speaker 1: of these stories we tell are have a lot to
Speaker 1: do with access to people. And that's something that people
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't understand from the outside because I get stuff
Speaker 1: almost every day with people saying how you should do
Speaker 1: a podcast on this or this, or they see we're
Speaker 1: interested in something like this, And I said, oh, then
Speaker 1: you'd be interested in this. So much of it has
Speaker 1: to do with just access that you almost can't script.
Speaker 1: And we're up there with Chip Growth. Are good, buddy,
Speaker 1: Chip Growth. And he goes, hey, I wrote a book.
Speaker 1: I the Yeah, Lewis Wetzel. Yeah, And he goes, you know,
Speaker 1: I have access to RT Steward. If I talked to RT,
Speaker 1: he talked to you. And and so we we go
Speaker 1: and do it and it's a fascinating story and uh
Speaker 1: and and I loved it. And we went out of
Speaker 1: our way to hide the identities of these people, which
Speaker 1: in the book it didn't And so I felt like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we were going kind of above
Speaker 1: and beyond. Well. On the way down here, I was
Speaker 1: talking to my buddy Nathaniel, who got us that Turkey
Speaker 1: Call article from and he said he was going through
Speaker 1: the article, the Turkey Call n WTFS publication. It published
Speaker 1: their names. It's still out there, you know. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: it's not like we uncovered something that that wasn't known.
Speaker 1: But I'm going back to my apology to Cloth is I.
Speaker 1: I really did. I said, I'm you know, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for what this might the attention this might have brought
Speaker 1: to you, you know, But I really feel like how
Speaker 1: he handled himself on the podcast was was noble. I
Speaker 1: really do, and I hope that it brings uh, you know.
Speaker 1: We talked about his businesses and stuff, and I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to support them, go buy
Speaker 1: a go go by. So let me say something that
Speaker 1: before I forget it. This burns me more than anything is.
Speaker 1: I said, the name of the restaurant is the Blue
Speaker 1: Bell Restaurant in Mcconnell'sville, Ohio. I said blue Bird, blue
Speaker 1: blue Bell, It's blue Bell. So that was my bad.
Speaker 1: So that is an official correction. Repercussion and crowd Dad,
Speaker 1: which we're both wrong. It's repercussions and crawl fish, crayfish.
Speaker 1: Let's hold on, we'll come back to this. We'll come
Speaker 1: back to this. So the restaurant, holy cow, for real,
Speaker 1: if you're in Mcconnellsville, if you were within an hour
Speaker 1: and a half of Mcconnellsville, I'd drive there to eat breakfast.
Speaker 1: This is fantastic breakfast, great atmosphere, and everybody in that
Speaker 1: restaurant wanted to talk to Claude Maxwell. Really, I mean, nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody knew who I mean, I was just sitting there.
Speaker 1: I was just a dude sitting there. Everybody want to
Speaker 1: talk to Claude. Everybody walked by was trying to get
Speaker 1: his attention. It's like, he's that kind of guy. He
Speaker 1: really is, and he so anyway, that's honorable. It's an
Speaker 1: honorable life. And that's when I realized that we probably
Speaker 1: weren't the most popular crew for bringing this all back
Speaker 1: up on the national state, rubbing a little assault of this. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, for real, it's it's been gone for thirty years,
Speaker 1: so that you know, like I said, just bringing it
Speaker 1: back to like the fact that like we are not uh,
Speaker 1: we're not uh putting our stamp of approval on poaching.
Speaker 1: What is so interesting is the redemption, the choices that
Speaker 1: he made after and I think that like one of
Speaker 1: the pieces of evidence for his change is his willingness
Speaker 1: to go on record and talk to you and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: I was wrong, but here's my life now. And I
Speaker 1: think that's such a privilege. I don't want to lose
Speaker 1: sight of the fact that it was a privilege to
Speaker 1: get to tell this story, and a privilege that he
Speaker 1: chose to give you time and to I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very thankful for that. What do you think, Dad, Well, y'all,
Speaker 1: ye have done a nice job covering it. I would
Speaker 1: just say that he was the exact same guy when
Speaker 1: he was doing this RTI saw that he was a
Speaker 1: good guy. He just was got involved with peer pressure
Speaker 1: and felt like it wasn't that big of a deal,
Speaker 1: you know, even though really he knew it was a
Speaker 1: big deal. I feel like, I mean, you know, you
Speaker 1: just know you you know it's breaking the law. But
Speaker 1: he had all the inner workings and hidden mechanisms to
Speaker 1: be successful in this life. And he took a little detour,
Speaker 1: and the detour brought him back probably to his destiny
Speaker 1: he was gonna have anyway, and made him probably better.
Speaker 1: You know, It's what I thought. Artis saw it. He
Speaker 1: was a quality guy. You know, he had he had
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going for him. Um. It makes
Speaker 1: you wonder when Artie talks about having that urge to
Speaker 1: call him and tell him that the raid was happening,
Speaker 1: what would have been the trajectory of his life if
Speaker 1: he had warned him or something. I thought if he
Speaker 1: would have eventually had that break or if this was
Speaker 1: the thing that he needed to all right, let's get
Speaker 1: the ship headed in the right direction. Now, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not things like this aren't clear. Like
Speaker 1: I agree with what Dad said, and if there's one
Speaker 1: thing that that I could do, it's not different. But
Speaker 1: if you were just telling a more complex story, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think target number two back in it was
Speaker 1: necessarily a bad guy. Like it wasn't like he had
Speaker 1: he I think you talked to him and it would
Speaker 1: be the same cloud I talked to, just a little
Speaker 1: detour and you know, like he said, he didn't view
Speaker 1: himself as a bad person. I mean he wasn't. So
Speaker 1: so what would have happened if this would have been
Speaker 1: prolonged for a period of time, like maybe probably would
Speaker 1: have grown out of Probably he would have They would
Speaker 1: have been pressures that would have come around his life
Speaker 1: where he's like, Okay, I'm gonna have to do stuff different.
Speaker 1: This was just a hard smack. And you know, you
Speaker 1: you gotta be careful how you say this stuff because
Speaker 1: you know, I'm playing both sides of the fence, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm promoting law enforcement and RT and
Speaker 1: and UH and and what the Ohio D and R
Speaker 1: did or you know, I'm telling their story like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is this is good stuff. But now I'm also
Speaker 1: interested in cloud story and I and this. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: feel loyalty to both of them and and um so
Speaker 1: it's a tricky It felt tricky on the inside of
Speaker 1: me being loyal to both sides of this story duplicitus.
Speaker 1: Well maybe not, but uh, but it was. It was
Speaker 1: probably one of the most interesting situations I've been in
Speaker 1: since I've been doing this here podcast. You shouldn't feel it.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't feel torn one way or the other because
Speaker 1: it's it worked out like it's supposed to. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: did a great job, there was. It's the people that
Speaker 1: I'm most concerned about. Well, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: You know that somebody was doing wrong. The law went in,
Speaker 1: they took care of it. The guy paid his debt.
Speaker 1: That's it's over with, unless he it was they make
Speaker 1: a podcast about you thirty years Yeah, that's the part
Speaker 1: I feel bad about. It. Could it could work out
Speaker 1: for him better though, I mean, yeah, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a flip of coin. It could something good could come
Speaker 1: from this. Yeah, well, and that's what that's what I
Speaker 1: hope that for sure. What's the name of the town
Speaker 1: first happens. What's the name of the town, Mcconnellsville, Mcconnellsville.
Speaker 1: I smell a Target number two coffee shop. Yeah, a
Speaker 1: great town. Is a great town. It's right on this
Speaker 1: big river. What do you think of the fishing community.
Speaker 1: What do you think the contention of bear grease listeners
Speaker 1: within an hour and a half of McConnell's phill is
Speaker 1: how many? I have no idea. Are you thinking seventy
Speaker 1: two thousand? There is there's one Bengals fan. We know
Speaker 1: that this is yeah. Uh, I like, Ohio, can we
Speaker 1: get all of them to go there? Not ask for Claude,
Speaker 1: not be weird about it, just buy some stuff from
Speaker 1: his Yeah, big tips, Yeah, yeah, they're they're sharp family man.
Speaker 1: And and uh and the what was the was there
Speaker 1: a rooftop place? Yeah, there's a pizza place, real nice.
Speaker 1: I called the pizza place one day to uh. I
Speaker 1: was actually trying to get ahold of it. Was before
Speaker 1: I had had an official introduction to Claude. And it
Speaker 1: was the best, like a voicemail. It was like after
Speaker 1: hours or something before they opened during the day, and
Speaker 1: it was like super polished and professional. My mouth was
Speaker 1: watering by the time I got done. It was like
Speaker 1: giving you the menus, like thanks for calling Maxwell's Pizza.
Speaker 1: Try our cheese sticks. No, no, I mean it's not
Speaker 1: like a major national franchise. And I was like, you
Speaker 1: forgot why you were calling. But it was good Dad,
Speaker 1: What were you gonna say? Uh? He survived for a
Speaker 1: lot of reasons. One thing, he's smart, smart guy. But
Speaker 1: he had two good families, really good families. And I
Speaker 1: mean that tells you a lot about him. He's got
Speaker 1: two good families. And he had a wonderful wife. I
Speaker 1: mean his wife was unbelievable. I mean she saw the
Speaker 1: whole thing. And because of that, here's our resident expert
Speaker 1: right here. I mean, really, Judy. I just marvel almost
Speaker 1: daily as I get older and wiser of how Judy
Speaker 1: is right so many times, and she can move me
Speaker 1: and direct me and you know, get me pointed in
Speaker 1: the right direction, and uh, what did you do that
Speaker 1: was so bad? Well? Every day, this every day when
Speaker 1: I'm talking three podcasts for another time, it's every day.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it wouldn't be awesome if dad
Speaker 1: was like a criminal and we could do a podcast
Speaker 1: and do you mind committing some crimes if if it
Speaker 1: is actually undercover, he's he's only become friends with you.
Speaker 1: But but to finish it off. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to hear what uh a wife and a mother thought
Speaker 1: about this, misty, what do you think? Okay, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: she's got notes. I don't have notes I have. I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure I quoted it right. No. Discipline
Speaker 1: seems pleasant at the time, but painful later on. However,
Speaker 1: it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those
Speaker 1: who have been trained by it. Therefore, strengthen your feeble
Speaker 1: arms and weak knees, make level paths for your feet
Speaker 1: so that the lay may not be disabled, but rather healed.
Speaker 1: And I think that discipline, punishment consequences can either cripple
Speaker 1: a person drop it can either you know, completely destabilized
Speaker 1: and destroy a person. I think that's I think that's
Speaker 1: a new testament. Okay, um can either destabilize and destroy
Speaker 1: someone or can cause them to become more stable, to
Speaker 1: become stronger, can be can be trained, You can be
Speaker 1: trained by it, and I think there's kind of two
Speaker 1: pieces here. He was trained by discipline, but you saw
Speaker 1: how it nearly ruined his life. I mean the way
Speaker 1: he talked about the depths of despair that he went into,
Speaker 1: and I don't think you even covered that as as
Speaker 1: much as as your conversation would have led on. But
Speaker 1: so there is something in him that responded to that well.
Speaker 1: And I think what Gary says is right. I think
Speaker 1: his wife really helped him. I think just from the
Speaker 1: stories his family, you know, he was pulled forward by
Speaker 1: the things he did have left. But I think that
Speaker 1: you know, you can have difficult circumstances, the consequences of
Speaker 1: your own actions, whatever you want to call it, can
Speaker 1: completely destroy a person. But I think it speaks to
Speaker 1: his character and I think it speaks to the strength
Speaker 1: of the people around him that he was able to
Speaker 1: allow this to be something that changed him. And I
Speaker 1: but I do think it it changed him also. He Uh,
Speaker 1: if he would have been just average Joe poacher, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't bothered him that much. You know, it really bothered
Speaker 1: I mean, he he beat on himself so hard, but
Speaker 1: he was smart enough and had to support pull out
Speaker 1: of it. And come back like a racehorse. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he came out there running wide open. Yeah. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. And that's the thing that when when
Speaker 1: when something negative comes on you, so many, so many
Speaker 1: people would would fold in bitterness or or they would
Speaker 1: have set out to try to prove to the man
Speaker 1: that they didn't have to stand under his authority. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that get caught end up getting embittered,
Speaker 1: and they spend the rest of their life trying to
Speaker 1: just like truck, don't even care, just go holy call,
Speaker 1: all right, so I got caught and just keep doing
Speaker 1: whatever you do. Yeah, it really bothered him, which tells
Speaker 1: you what we've said. He was a quality guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well he was, and and that brings me back. I
Speaker 1: actually now remember what I was saying. When I was
Speaker 1: saying I'm playing both sides of the fence about ten
Speaker 1: minutes ago, I was talking about that is that is
Speaker 1: that though mccondlesville folks, not Claude, didn't tell me this,
Speaker 1: it's just what I felt when I was there. They
Speaker 1: all felt like they came down real heavy handed on
Speaker 1: these guys trying to make a statement to the world,
Speaker 1: make an example out of him, which we know, i'll
Speaker 1: know is true and that happens, Well, that's effectively what
Speaker 1: you were talking about with your caribou and wolf analogy.
Speaker 1: It may seem harsh and in the moment, but and
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate for this population, for that single caribou. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if i'd used
Speaker 1: the word necessary. But it does send a message to coach.
Speaker 1: And it's and and it's and and this is where
Speaker 1: you have to be careful because it's it's not like
Speaker 1: you're being you know, somebody said, well, you're being soft
Speaker 1: on poachers if you feel sorry for these guys that
Speaker 1: we're breaking the law that did get caught in the
Speaker 1: and the heavy hand of the law came down on them.
Speaker 1: And you might say, well, they were guilty of every
Speaker 1: bit of it. Well, you know what, I've hunted without
Speaker 1: a hunter's orange before and didn't get the ticket for it.
Speaker 1: Keep going, you see what I've said. I mean, literally,
Speaker 1: there's a guy and I know what it feels like
Speaker 1: to have a guy undercover following you single thing you
Speaker 1: do that and then having to give a recompense for
Speaker 1: every like it was. It was heavy handed and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that's wrong. I'm just saying it's kind of
Speaker 1: a bummer for Claude, kind of bummer for all these guys.
Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of the consensus of the community.
Speaker 1: And I think we'd be the same way if that
Speaker 1: had happened to And by us, I mean just somebody. Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean going back to restorative justice versus
Speaker 1: punitive justice. It's like, the thing that is compelling about
Speaker 1: restorative justice is it makes our community better. The thing
Speaker 1: that's problematic about punitive justice is that we often want
Speaker 1: punitive justice for other people, but we want restorative justice
Speaker 1: for ourselves because we can we know the story and
Speaker 1: we can tell a different story of why it was
Speaker 1: okay that we did it, or apologize for it. It's
Speaker 1: like we want justice, quote unquote justice for them, but
Speaker 1: we want grace for ourselves. And that's why it's important
Speaker 1: to have a system that trends towards restorative justice. And
Speaker 1: that's why we like stories like this where it's like
Speaker 1: it worked. And I'm not sure that honestly, what I
Speaker 1: don't know what you're saying is actually I don't know
Speaker 1: that our justice system is designed or that people want
Speaker 1: it to be, and you're using the word restorative. I
Speaker 1: think in the injustice literature would be more rehabilitative. You know,
Speaker 1: like when you're looking at drugs, there's a big conversation.
Speaker 1: Are we trying to rehabilitate these guys? Are we trying
Speaker 1: to punish them for the crime they did? And that's
Speaker 1: a big, huge question that people are trying to to
Speaker 1: figure out. And I think that that, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know that it's like determined, oh, we want to
Speaker 1: rehabilitate criminals. I think, you know, we have the death row,
Speaker 1: we have life sentences, and those are not rehabilitative in nature.
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure that is a decision that's been
Speaker 1: made by the American public or I think that's just
Speaker 1: a conversation that keeps happening. But I think that that's
Speaker 1: the point, Like, I don't think it's like a done
Speaker 1: and everybody agrees we need to be rehabilitating criminals. I'm
Speaker 1: I think it's a converse national conversation that is unresolved,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're probably given way too much credit
Speaker 1: to the punitive action and this specific thing, like and
Speaker 1: the Dad's point, I don't think it was you know
Speaker 1: all that happened to him that turned claud into who
Speaker 1: it was a wake up call. Yeah, because you could
Speaker 1: because there's probably guys on that same team who had
Speaker 1: similar consequences who did not change by it. That's That's
Speaker 1: kind of what I'm trying to say, is I think
Speaker 1: that there's something in you have a choice about how
Speaker 1: you respond to. Why I love Claude Maxwell. He responded
Speaker 1: correctly to getting smacked, not for anybody else's sake, but
Speaker 1: for his own. I mean, he he just he just
Speaker 1: he just went forward and it has done well and
Speaker 1: and him doing well to me. I said it on
Speaker 1: the podcast, but I say it again. It's not didn't
Speaker 1: everything to do with business success, but like he wasn't
Speaker 1: an intact man. He's been married for however long, I
Speaker 1: mean decades, decades, decades, and you know a lot about
Speaker 1: somebody when you meet their grown children, watch them interact,
Speaker 1: I mean for real, like just people. Hey. One of
Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the whole thing was the story
Speaker 1: about the little boy thinking everybody was having a party
Speaker 1: in him trying to show him how to get things.
Speaker 1: That was good about that. Yeah, yeah, and he uh,
Speaker 1: he's like his dad too. I mean he's pretty sharp cat.
Speaker 1: He said, Dad, you need to do this, and I
Speaker 1: think he was right. I think this is gonna help
Speaker 1: him some way. I think something good will come from this. Um,
Speaker 1: I deeply I hope. So yeah, Claude, Claude would be
Speaker 1: welcome on the Bargras Surrender anytime, or cast his son,
Speaker 1: any of them. You know, cast is super sharp. The
Speaker 1: other thing that I didn't do real well is the
Speaker 1: bowling alley and the restaurant are actually castes. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I boy, we just had such a short production window
Speaker 1: for this one because I just went there and then
Speaker 1: just turned around and did it. And uh and and
Speaker 1: I just wasn't able to clarify some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: But but but I should have done a better job
Speaker 1: at that. But fantastic series. I think it was. It was,
Speaker 1: it was, It was real. Like what was kind of
Speaker 1: unique about it is that this wasn't a fabricated story,
Speaker 1: real story. All the stories are real, but it kind
Speaker 1: of happened. Happened in a way that surprised me. Even
Speaker 1: so Bigary's Baby, I like it. Any foreshadowing of what's
Speaker 1: coming up, Oh yeah, hold on, you'll see this right here. Yes,
Speaker 1: this was made by a famous Arkansas duck call maker. Brant.
Speaker 1: Do you know the name of that? Do you know
Speaker 1: that name? I'm trying to read it. Jim Stinson in Clarendon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and let's hear a duck That's a beautiful duck call.
Speaker 1: Let's hear a duck call. That's pretty excellent. Look at awesome.
Speaker 1: That is the only foreshadow you get. That is the
Speaker 1: only foreshadow you get. Man, Hey, Merry Christmas to everybody.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for listening. We didn't sing. I think
Speaker 1: that they'll be okay everybody, everybody, everybody picked your own song.
Speaker 1: Then three, well, everybody has a great, great Christmas. Hope, oh,
Speaker 1: you have a great Christmas that are here in the room.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think the next Burger shrender will be
Speaker 1: after the first of the year. Marches on. I think
Speaker 1: John Anderson has a song about that. Years we see
Speaker 1: Tracy Lawrence Lawrence, Yeah, sing it, Brent. I don't I
Speaker 1: going to sing the John Anderson version. Come on, I
Speaker 1: don't know it. All right, Merry Christmas, everybody, We wish
Speaker 1: you Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy New Year. Jingle? Who
Speaker 1: is to write that was true?