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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, Radio news. Joe, do you know

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Speaker 1: that song money Money?

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Speaker 2: I remember it money?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, I didn't know this. Apparently it was

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Speaker 1: inspired by a building here in New York.

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Speaker 2: Really, I didn't know that at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to.

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia why we would actually know this. But apparently there

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Speaker 1: used to be a sign that said money but m

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Speaker 1: O and why on top of this building at seventeen

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Speaker 1: forty Broadway, and the m O and Y money was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be Mutual of New York, I guess, and

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Speaker 1: then it got like compressed, and then it was on

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Speaker 1: top of this building for a really long time. And

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Speaker 1: then I guess the band what were they called?

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Speaker 3: I'm looking on Wikipedia. Is this the one Tonysdell?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there it is.

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Speaker 1: Tommy James and the Schondell's. So they were like staying

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Speaker 1: around that area looking for in spiration for a song

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Speaker 1: and they saw the sign and they were like, that's it.

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Speaker 2: And they got a hit out of it.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, here it is atop the Mutual New York

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Speaker 3: building in Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: I did a deadlift one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, uh barges.

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Speaker 3: This isn't After School Special except.

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Speaker 1: I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going

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Speaker 1: forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US.

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Speaker 2: Where's the best with imposta?

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Speaker 1: These are the important question? Is that robots taking over

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that like in a couple of years,

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Speaker 3: the AI will do a really good job of making

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Speaker 3: the odd launch podcast. And people say, I don't really

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Speaker 3: need to listen to Joe and Tracy anymore.

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Speaker 2: We do haveing perfect.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to lots more. Will we catch up with friends

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Speaker 3: about what's going on right now.

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Speaker 1: Because even when Odd Lots is over, there's always lots more.

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Speaker 2: And we really do have the perfect guest.

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Speaker 1: You might have heard then we are speaking with Hitten

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Speaker 1: some Tani, the founder of ten thirty one Media, which

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Speaker 1: is a newsletter focusing on real estate and hit ten

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Speaker 1: has been on the show before, but we had to

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Speaker 1: bring you back on because there's a lot going on

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Speaker 1: in office buildings in New York, it seems, and particularly

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Speaker 1: on One Street on Broadway.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been quite the carnage season for a bit,

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Speaker 4: but I think what happened with reference to this building

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Speaker 4: is even more alarming because wait, just to be.

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Speaker 3: Clear, just to be clear, when you say this building,

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Speaker 3: we are talking about the mutual of New York building.

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Speaker 1: Seventeen forty Broadway, the Money Build.

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Speaker 2: Keep going, tell me about seventeen forty Broadway.

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Speaker 4: So seventeen forty Broadway was your prototypical class A office building,

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Speaker 4: sort of tower of power, Manhattan credit tenants, that whole jazz.

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Speaker 4: And what's happened just last week for this month was

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Speaker 4: that the Triple A transholders. So basically, the people who

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Speaker 4: hold what is considered the safest part of the CMBs

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Speaker 4: stash lost a big chunk of money when this building's

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Speaker 4: debt was sold. So that doesn't happen very often. In fact,

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Speaker 4: the last time it happened was the GFC. So now

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Speaker 4: people are looking at this and saying, okay, so if

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Speaker 4: Triple A bondholders aren't safe, then god, how how bad

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Speaker 4: is this thing? Because we've talked about CI distressed for

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Speaker 4: about a year and a half now this one is

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Speaker 4: particularly alarming.

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Speaker 1: The Money building stopped making money. I guess sorry, you

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Speaker 1: knew that was coming eventually, But okay. The one saving

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Speaker 1: grace in this seems to be that this particular CMBs

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Speaker 1: deal commercial mortgage backed security, it was a single property deal, right,

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Speaker 1: So the risk was trenched up, so you had that

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Speaker 1: AAA slice the triple A bit, but there was only

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Speaker 1: one property, so you didn't necessarily have the diversification benefits

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Speaker 1: that you would see in a normal CMBs conduit type deal.

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Speaker 4: Correct. And this is something that people have been asking,

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Speaker 4: is is there any point where it's justified to give

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Speaker 4: a single asset transaction like this at triple A rating?

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Speaker 4: Because yes, it is a diverse group of what you

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Speaker 4: would call credit worthy tenants. But as we've seen with

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Speaker 4: this building and another that we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 4: things can go wrong pretty quickly. So is it as

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Speaker 4: diversified as it should be? Probably not, because if you're

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Speaker 4: comparing it with like a pool of residential securities, you'd need,

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Speaker 4: you know, six thousand of them to go bad at

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Speaker 4: once for bondholders to suffer a loss. Now, that did

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Speaker 4: happen at one point, but again, theoretically that is a

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Speaker 4: little safer than what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 3: Can I just say, Tracy, I don't know I've may

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Speaker 3: have talked about this in the office recently, but I've

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Speaker 3: been watching the New York documentary by Rick Burns, which

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Speaker 3: is Tim Burns's brother, it is so good and like

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Speaker 3: I've always liked living.

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Speaker 2: In New York.

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Speaker 3: It's fine, but now I'm like, really like New York

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Speaker 3: build It's a seventeen and a half hour documentary. I

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Speaker 3: think you'd really like it. And it's all this like

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Speaker 3: has this whole period of like when all these office

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Speaker 3: buildings have gone up, and now particularly Park Avenue, I

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Speaker 3: know we're talking about a Broadway building. Now I've become

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Speaker 3: like I look at the buildings, I will I'm a

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Speaker 3: New York City office buildings appreciator.

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Speaker 1: Now, Joe, this is actually true because we were in

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Speaker 1: an office building recently and you were so excited to

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Speaker 1: be there. For me, it was really yeah. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was really non descript and not that impressive,

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Speaker 1: but you were genuinely excited and kept wandering around.

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Speaker 3: The office building was a corner, so again, I know

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Speaker 3: a little said version fifty third in Park I sort

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Speaker 3: of conclude it is like my favorite corner of all

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Speaker 3: of New York City. It's like the sort of like

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Speaker 3: mid century vibes and fountains and green tinted glass and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, we can get back to the you know.

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Speaker 4: Jody, Yeah, that's a pretty well shared sentiment. There is

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Speaker 4: a famous quote by an architecture archegecture critic friends. It says,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to quote it is the ambition of the

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Speaker 4: New Yorker to live upon the fifth, to take his

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Speaker 4: errands in the park, to sleep with his fathers in Greenwood.

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Speaker 4: So it's it's a sentiment that's been shared for a

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Speaker 4: few generations.

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Speaker 3: It finally after twenty years, So this may is twenty

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Speaker 3: years of me living in New York. It's finally like

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Speaker 3: all like clicked, and now I don't think I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To leave, okay, but just to go back to Let's

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Speaker 1: move away from Park Avenue and go back to seventeen

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Speaker 1: forty Broadway. But what's the deal with the tenants there?

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Speaker 1: So this is in This is a pretty decent office

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Speaker 1: building as far as I can tell, in a prime

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Speaker 1: midtown location. Maybe it's not as shiny and new as

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Speaker 1: some other things, but I would have thought that someone

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Speaker 1: would be renting it out.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a tricky time, right, So L Brands anchored

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Speaker 4: the building. Fact, this is the problem with exposure to

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Speaker 4: one even if it's a great tenant like L Brands,

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Speaker 4: which was the former parent of Victoria's Secret They occupied

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Speaker 4: I believe it was close to almost eighty percent of

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Speaker 4: the space. Oh wow, And they said they were going

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Speaker 4: to exit the tower. Now that comes in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 4: when your return to office is very much up in

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Speaker 4: the air. It's going to be very hard to find

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Speaker 4: a tenant that would fill that kind of space. And

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Speaker 4: it's going to be very hard to find a group

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Speaker 4: of tenants that would want to fill that kind of space.

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Speaker 4: So even if Blackstone had been able to fill that

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Speaker 4: massive void left by L Brands, they would probably have

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Speaker 4: to do it at a much lower rent. Right, So

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Speaker 4: that's going to make a serious dent on their NOI.

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Speaker 4: It's going to affect their ability to pay their debt service.

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Speaker 4: And so what they did is they decided to walk away.

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Speaker 4: They walked away in twenty twenty two, they defaulted on

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Speaker 4: the loan and they just said go with God. And

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Speaker 4: that's kind of what happened. And what's funny, Tracy, is

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Speaker 4: they're very salty about this one. So if you look

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Speaker 4: at their press statements, starting maybe in the summer of

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Speaker 4: twenty three, maybe a little earlier, they make it a

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Speaker 4: huge point to say that traditional US office represents less

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Speaker 4: than two percent of our entire holdings. So now they're

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Speaker 4: using the scale argument, Hey we're so big, And Brookfield

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Speaker 4: has used this argument as well, Hey we're so massive.

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Speaker 4: These are little blips on a very successful track record.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's take our tour a little bit further south,

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Speaker 1: still on Broadway, let's head over to fourteen forty Broadway. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is a building that caught my eye recently because

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Speaker 1: it went into delinquency and I think it was responsible

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Speaker 1: for a big portion of the uptick in the serious

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Speaker 1: delinquency rate that we saw in the most recent month,

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Speaker 1: which is now at its highest level since early twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: This is a four hundred million dollar loan backing fourteen

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Speaker 1: forty Broadway now seems to be in serious trouble. What's

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Speaker 1: going on there?

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Speaker 4: Well, so there's been a little bit of news since

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Speaker 4: you wrote your piece. In fact, you just received a

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Speaker 4: refi and this was predicted. I believe I knew it. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: your story. They received a refin. Now it's a Faustian

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Speaker 4: bargain type of refit. It's a very problematic refit because

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Speaker 4: the appraised value of the property is just under it's

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Speaker 4: about forty six they took a forty six percent haircut

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Speaker 4: on the value of the building, but they did receive

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Speaker 4: the loan. They did receive an extension until twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, This to me is why I was so

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Speaker 1: interested in the building, because it seems like a little

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Speaker 1: microcosm of what's going on in office real estate at

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Speaker 1: the moment. So you have higher benchmark interest rates obviously,

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Speaker 1: you have tenants like we Work. They used to be

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Speaker 1: in there and are not there anymore. You have Macy's,

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Speaker 1: which is another sort of thematic ted Better Days company. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there we go. I was trying to be polite with thematic.

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Speaker 1: But death of retail and all of that, and yet

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Speaker 1: and yet it still gets refinanced.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they find a way. Wait, can I ask one

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Speaker 3: more seventeen forty question. I know we moved on, but

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Speaker 3: just one last thing. When there's one big tenant and

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Speaker 3: so this other building, Okay, they have a few tenants

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Speaker 3: and they're all maybe shaky or you know, to some extent.

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Speaker 2: How do you get like a triple e?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it just seems like inherently when you have

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Speaker 3: eighty percent of the space rented to one company, that's

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Speaker 3: no matter how strong the company or everything else that's

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Speaker 3: got to be like a huge source of concern for

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Speaker 3: the lender.

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Speaker 4: I would assume this is the this is the right

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Speaker 4: question to ask. Unfortunately, a lot of the people at

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Speaker 4: the ratings agencies don't seem to ask themselves that question.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of concerns about why something like

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Speaker 4: DBRs or morning Star or there was one more I

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Speaker 4: believe on this building, SMP, why are they providing triple

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Speaker 4: A ratings to something with so much exposure to one tenant?

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Speaker 4: And the answer is, well, I think it's their business

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Speaker 4: to keep the market going. I think if you speak

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Speaker 4: to anyone who's steeped in this space, it's far from

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Speaker 4: a purely objective, dispassionate game, the ratings game. So that's

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Speaker 4: the answer to that, got it.

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Speaker 1: So for fourteen forty Broadway, when a REFI like this

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Speaker 1: comes through and it's on ownerous terms where the value

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Speaker 1: of the property has been massively downgraded, who actually takes

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Speaker 1: the loss on that?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question. So in general, just stepping back

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Speaker 4: for a minute, a lot of these Manhattan trophy towers

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Speaker 4: have an owner and name right, So in this case,

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Speaker 4: it was CIM, which is a massive money manager based

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Speaker 4: out of LA But then they have an owner in

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Speaker 4: skin in the game, let's say call it. And in

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Speaker 4: this case, the pension fund that was backing CIM on

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Speaker 4: the property is called q Super, so it's a Queensland

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Speaker 4: base so Queensland Australia based pension fund. So they're the

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Speaker 4: ones who had most of their equity in this transaction.

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Speaker 4: CIM essentially serves as the operating partner and has a

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Speaker 4: little piece. So the ones who end up taking a

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Speaker 4: bath on these things tend to be the sorry pension

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Speaker 4: funds and.

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Speaker 1: The Australian pensioners.

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Speaker 4: Australian pensioners Canadian pensioners in many cases. So CPP has

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Speaker 4: taken a bath on several properties in Manhattan recently. In fact,

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Speaker 4: the one that cut a lot of headlines recently was

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Speaker 4: they walked away. I think they took one dollar for

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Speaker 4: their stake in a property and released themselves from certain

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Speaker 4: debt obligations and walked away. And that's happening time and

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Speaker 4: time again. So if you notice the chatter on the

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Speaker 4: sovereign wealth side, a lot of people are saying, ah,

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Speaker 4: office may not be where I need to be anymore.

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Speaker 4: And that's been super interesting. So yeah, in this case

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Speaker 4: on fourteen forty, just a slight clarification, we Worke didn't

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Speaker 4: in fact walk away. We work has walked away from

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Speaker 4: a ton of leases all over the country, but in

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Speaker 4: fact it decided to stay put at this building. Now,

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Speaker 4: what change, though, is that it's doing it at a

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Speaker 4: way reduced rent. So I think it was paying something

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Speaker 4: in the seventies back in the day, and then you know,

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Speaker 4: it's not Adam Newman's company anymore, but it still has

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Speaker 4: his kind of chutzba and it decided to work out

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Speaker 4: a much better deal, so I think it's paying now

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Speaker 4: in the forties a foot. Macy's, however, has walked away

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Speaker 4: as of January, it kind of exited its lease. So

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Speaker 4: the building is only fifty eight percent occupied, and it's

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Speaker 4: not in a very you know, I wouldn't call that

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Speaker 4: like the most glamorous part of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: So no, it's close to Penn Station, which is a

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Speaker 1: place I go to a lot.

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Speaker 4: So yes, right, you're unlikely to get your hedge funds

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Speaker 4: or blue chip financial tenants to step it. So you

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Speaker 4: have a fifty eight percent occupied it's no park, correct,

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Speaker 4: That's right? Are you guys? Cool with me at kind

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Speaker 4: of indulging you in the numbers on this building.

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Speaker 2: Please, yeah, pratty please Okay.

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Speaker 4: Awesome. So the way that Manhattan Trophy Towers used to

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Speaker 4: work is that it was a great way to announce

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Speaker 4: your presence as a serious investor. So I'm going to

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Speaker 4: run you through the brief twenty year journey of this building. Awesome.

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Speaker 4: In two thousand and two, this Virginia real estate scion

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Speaker 4: that started a company called Monday Properties came in bought

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Speaker 4: this property for two hundred and thirty million. Okay, did

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Speaker 4: very well with it, and in the kind of the

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Speaker 4: CMBs go Go days of seven, was able to bring

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Speaker 4: in a big institutional investor, Prudential, and the tower was

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Speaker 4: valued at four hundred and thirty four million, so pretty

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Speaker 4: much double what Monday had bought in for. Then, obviously,

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Speaker 4: the crash happened, and in twenty thirteen, another private equity firm, Rockpoint,

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Speaker 4: came in paid three fifty million. That's what the tower

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Speaker 4: is valued at when they bought in. Then in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 4: it got super interesting in this have bled into your

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Speaker 4: broader financial world. There was a company called American Realty

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Speaker 4: Capital or either of you familiar with that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this was well, yeah, not here.

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Speaker 4: So Nicolas Shorsch went on sort of the acquisition tear

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Speaker 4: of a lifetime and just bought up basically a tenth

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Speaker 4: of Manhattan and had these weird non traded reed vehicles

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Speaker 4: that he was using to fund all these purchases. Predictably,

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Speaker 4: there was a major accounting scandal that company imploded in

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Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, and that is when CIM bought in. So

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Speaker 4: CIM bought in at about a five hundred and twenty

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Speaker 4: million valuation, and today the valuation is at three hundred

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Speaker 4: and twenty million. And so this tower is fascinating, I think, Tracy,

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Speaker 4: the reason I caught your attention, as did mine, is

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Speaker 4: it has every character you can think of in New

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Speaker 4: York real estate, from Adam Newman to Jeff Bezos, to

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Speaker 4: these mutual funds to these Virginia scions. They've all played

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Speaker 4: some kind of role in this tower.

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Speaker 3: And it's basically gone sideways now evaluation wise for twenty years.

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Speaker 4: Uh no, So Rockpoint did terrifically well. Rockpoint bought it

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Speaker 4: at three fifty sold at five nine million nine or

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Speaker 4: ten months later, so they.

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Speaker 2: Made like the current valuation is what.

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Speaker 4: The current valuation is three hundred and twenty million.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So like, yeah, that's what I mean if you

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Speaker 3: just sort of looked at the starting valuation, the first

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Speaker 3: number that you mentioned, and now that has not been

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Speaker 3: a particularly great run for it.

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Speaker 4: Correct, it's been, that's been a rough go. But again,

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Speaker 4: this thing about these markets is like a year and

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Speaker 4: a half ago, we could point to this and say, wow,

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Speaker 4: this building was appraised at five hundred and ninety five million,

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Speaker 4: So it's really changed quite dramatically over these last eighteen

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Speaker 4: months or so.

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Speaker 1: But to me, like the symbolism here is that even

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Speaker 1: with the much much lower valuation, it's still getting refinanced

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Speaker 1: and it's still kind of hanging on, and therefore is

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Speaker 1: sort of a microcosm of what's going on with a

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Speaker 1: lot of commercial real estate at the moment, which is,

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Speaker 1: even though there is all this concern, so far, a

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Speaker 1: lot of this has been able to be you know,

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Speaker 1: refined or extended and pretended, whatever your preferred term might be.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the big question is for how long?

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Speaker 4: Right? And I think this is a point that someone

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Speaker 4: you had on earlier, Rich Hill, made very eloquently, and

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Speaker 4: my way of putting it less eloquently, is this whole

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Speaker 4: debate about wall of maturities is kind of a fugazi debate.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of like if you guys remember this whole

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Speaker 4: thing about TAM total addressable marketing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Steve Eisman's favorite term, right right, it is.

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Speaker 4: Such a I mean, when the VCS were coming and

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Speaker 4: let's say, okay, this company has smart locks. There are

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Speaker 4: two million locks owned by institutional investors. Hence my TAM

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Speaker 4: is gajillian trillion dollars. Right, it's just a complete I

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Speaker 4: think if the debt clock has maybe another metaphor, it's

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Speaker 4: a number that keeps going up or down based on

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Speaker 4: what the deliver of the message wants. So I've heard

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Speaker 4: a thing from Bloomberg had an article about one point

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Speaker 4: five trillion wall of maturities recently aries, which is a

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Speaker 4: big debt fund throughout a two point five trillion number.

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Speaker 4: But it's all meaningless because to your point, Tracy, these

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Speaker 4: loans are getting reworked all the time. They're often getting extended,

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Speaker 4: maybe at more painful terms. But this whole looming wall

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Speaker 4: is just nonsense.

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Speaker 3: This might be a random question, but when a building

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Speaker 3: has significant vacancies. Okay, I imagine that's a good time

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Speaker 3: for a new tenant to come in because maybe they

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Speaker 3: can get a good deal on rent. But on the

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Speaker 3: other hand, do tenants express concern or have like, you know,

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Speaker 3: if it's too empty, Like do they want their employees

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Speaker 3: coming to work in such like an empty sort of

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Speaker 3: ghost building? I mean, maybe this isn't quite a ghost building,

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Speaker 3: but does it become a sort of self fulfilling prophecy

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Speaker 3: where as vacancy gets lower, it.

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Speaker 2: Becomes less appealing to potential tenants. Is that a thing?

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Speaker 4: It's sort of like if you've been single for a

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Speaker 4: very long time.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's like a big red flag.

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Speaker 4: Right. It's a really tricky thing. So if we're talking

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Speaker 4: about companies making a big push for rto return of office, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and about vibes and collaboration, tim Tower doesn't really give

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Speaker 4: off the vibes that you need. So, yes, vacancye rates

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Speaker 4: of whatever it's I think it's eighteen percent. We've seen

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Speaker 4: some rates hit eighteen percent. This building is what forty

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Speaker 4: two percent. That's not a good sign for a perspective tenant.

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Speaker 4: So either they come in and extract incredibly generous concessions

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Speaker 4: from the landlord, or they just stay put or they

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Speaker 4: don't show up. That's what happens.

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Speaker 1: You know what I think we should do. And this

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Speaker 1: is not a well thought out plan, so please take

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Speaker 1: it with a grain of salt. But I was just

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Speaker 1: thinking these types of office buildings. There's been so much

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Speaker 1: focus on office to residential conversion, but there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of office building esque type things in Asia, like

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Speaker 1: in Tokyo and Hong Kong that are filled with little

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Speaker 1: independent shops.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Like, you go into one, it's twenty stories. There's like

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Speaker 1: a cat cafe and maybe a board game and.

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Speaker 3: Like a really cool like a food course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you just kind of go through this war

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Speaker 1: in of shops and you're never quite sure what's going

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Speaker 1: to be around the next corner. But it's really fun.

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Speaker 1: They should do something like that in New York. That's

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Speaker 1: my idea.

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Speaker 4: Well, it totally could work for a couple of buildings

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Speaker 4: we have had. Some there are in fact specialty cracy

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Speaker 4: and Joe, you might want to talk to these people,

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Speaker 4: but there are some specialty companies that essentially reimagine these

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Speaker 4: dead buildings as beautiful events bass or pop up retail

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Speaker 4: or even little restaurants and stuff like that. But how

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Speaker 4: deep is that market? I mean, you could do that

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Speaker 4: with five buildings. Maybe could you do it with all

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Speaker 4: the buildings around the hulking Pen Station? Probably not, you know,

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Speaker 4: And how do you value those buildings if you're an investor,

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Speaker 4: if you're sitting in Queensland, Australia and looking looking at

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Speaker 4: your massive Manhattan investment, just tanking and value, you know,

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Speaker 4: how do you take solid someone says.

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Speaker 1: We're going to turn it into cat cafes in your life?

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Speaker 2: Two things.

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Speaker 3: One thing I'll say about Penn Station is that for

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Speaker 3: the first time and all of the time I've lived

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Speaker 3: in New York, I don't I think there's any scaffolding

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Speaker 3: in front of it. And it actually is kind of nice.

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Speaker 3: Like we can't really build anything or do any construction

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Speaker 3: quickly in this country apparently, but eventually it did get done.

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Speaker 2: Penn Station is not noad right now.

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Speaker 1: No, it looks nice. It's completely unfunctional. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, but.

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Speaker 1: There's nowhere to sit. Everyone has to line up in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the room to get on their train

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Speaker 1: single file.

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Speaker 3: And why they don't have more benches, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, the secret is to go across the road to

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Speaker 1: the old part of the station, Yeah, and be there

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Speaker 1: and no one's actually there and you can't get on

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Speaker 1: your train immediately and avoid the line totally.

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Speaker 4: No, I do that.

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Speaker 3: I do that in fact, Yeah, I never go to

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Speaker 3: what I always go to. Yeah, So all right, fourteen

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Speaker 3: forty Broadway. It's sort of is it a microcosm or

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Speaker 3: is it a the worst Like how much do the

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Speaker 3: conditions going on Like that's sort of the big question

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Speaker 3: right here, especially for that Queensland investor. How much is

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Speaker 3: it reflective of what's going on in lots of other buildings.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think the they were caught particularly badly by

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Speaker 5: an aging retailer and a company that went somewhat belly

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Speaker 5: up in macy'son we Work, but their ability to get

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Speaker 5: financing is absolutely What it reflects, more than anything else,

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Speaker 5: is that lenders don't want to take these assets back, and.

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Speaker 4: Lenders, even though they will rail against these borrows and

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Speaker 4: can try all they can, they are not willing to

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Speaker 4: take these assets back. That's a that's a big part

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Speaker 4: of it. The other part of it, which we haven't

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Speaker 4: discussed yet, but I think it's probably the most fascinating

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Speaker 4: part of the story is the fees. The fees on

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Speaker 4: these things are unbelievable. So, Tracy, your colleague at Bloomberg

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Speaker 4: reported about seventeen forty Broadway, right, so that that building

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Speaker 4: sold for one hundred and eighty six million, which would

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Speaker 4: have if that whole amount went back to the bondholders,

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Speaker 4: made them whole at least the top tranch the triple

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Speaker 4: A trench, right. Instead, they were left with one hundred

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Speaker 4: and seventeen million. So you're looking at what seventy million

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Speaker 4: odd in fees and advances, et cetera. So when we

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Speaker 4: talk about who's making money in this market, it's the

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Speaker 4: special servicers. It's the moment, it's the they're making a killing.

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Speaker 4: It's an amazing time to be in the servicing business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, someone's still making money from the money building, even

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Speaker 1: if the money building is not generating that much money.

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Speaker 1: How many times can I say money? That's a really

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Speaker 1: good podcast.

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Speaker 2: That's really good.

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Speaker 3: Lots more is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and dash Ol Bennett,

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Speaker 3: with help from Moses Ondam and kill Brooks.

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Speaker 1: Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Bauman is the

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Speaker 1: head of Bloomberg podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Odd, Lots and Lots

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Speaker 3: More on your favorite podcast platforms.

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Speaker 1: And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all our

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Speaker 1: podcasts at free by connecting through Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.