WEBVTT - Murmurations 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.320 Flashpoint is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free, 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 but for ad free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses, 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.480 subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot com or on 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:14.480 Apple Podcasts. 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.759 You're listening to Flashpoint, a production of tenderfoot TV and 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:25.200 association with iHeartMedia. The views and opinions expressed in this 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.360 podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.159 This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.519 suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:41.080 Can't wait for. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.440 So roodles? 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:45.760 First. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.760 I'm in the car with my producer, Doug Mattica and 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.560 Paul Wolf, our local guide for the weekend. Doug and 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.480 I just drove through the night to meet up with Paul. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.680 We're clearly outsiders here, so we need a local to 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.600 show us around. We wanted to spend some real time 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.120 in this part of Appalachia where Rudolph grew up, explore 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.759 the region and talk with people who might have known him, 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.240 and with Paul's help, try to understand where and how 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:18.399 he hid from authorities. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.360 That's a fascinating landscape, Gesso. Where we're going to be 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.479 heading up to the Upper Nanahala is remote even by 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:27.400 local standards. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.279 We're driving through a town called Topton. It's just outside Murphy, 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.680 North Carolina. Paul fell in love with this area and 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.880 moved here more than thirty years ago. Since then, he's 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.400 been a backpacking guide and a shaman of sorts to 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:47.360 series hikers exploring Appalachia. Likely to historically speaking, this is 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.280 in fact where people go to hye. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.080 And even some of those encounters where people might see you, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.680 most soaks here aren't going to pay much attention for 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.720 that if you didn't want to be found. This is 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.880 a great spot, and especially knowing a bit about it. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.320 We passed by a tiny church that has maybe six 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.560 recipes inside, then a few homes, and then a few 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.040 dogs emerge from those homes and chase after our car. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.880 Just keep driving, just keep driving, Just keep. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:12.440 On his nail. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.120 Weirdly, nobody comes outside to hear what the commotion is 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:16.520 all about. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.080 Here Partridge Creek, Yal, there's a no trustbus must take 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:22.320 a pause here for a second. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480 A single lane gravel road called Partridge Creek dead ends 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.919 with a ranch style home with a wood frame and 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:29.880 aluminum siding. 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.840 So imagine this twenty years ago folks. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:34.840 I wonder who lives there now. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.560 This was Eric Rudolph's home in nineteen eighty two, when 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:41.959 he was just sixteen years old. He and his family 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.600 moved here from Florida. Next Door is Tom Brandham's home, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.000 a family friend of the Rudolph's. Tom met the family 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.720 at their church in Florida, and after he moved to Topton, 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:56.120 the family eventually followed. They bought the seven acre lot 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.799 next to Tom's and Eric Rudolph and his brother Dan 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.239 built out the existence trailer on the property to be 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:02.040 the family home. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.160 Boy, that's all homesteaded. Looks like you played on the 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:06.600 block for that place himself. 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.000 Tom still lives here. His home looks like it's in 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.480 the middle of a junkyard. There are half a dozen 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.959 cars in scrap metal lining the property. It almost looks 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:16.880 like a paintball course. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.239 See the karate target practice dummy in the garden. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.160 This part of North Carolina is extremely remote. Access to 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:30.520 cell service, let alone internet is limited. It's isolated. An 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:35.160 isolation like that breeds distrust. If you're not around people 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.920 that are different from you on a regular basis, they 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:43.160 become other, something to be suspicious of, even feared you. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.480 Gotta think if you bought property up a cove like this, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:47.600 you didn't really want to have neighbors. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.560 After hiking and driving around for the better part of 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.280 the day, we stumbled upon a trash depository. That's where 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.120 you take your trash when you don't have a garbage 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.200 truck coming to your house every week. A woman was 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.680 posted up behind glass and a tiny little nook monitoring 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.160 the facility here. How long have you worked here? 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:08.800 Three years? 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:10.280 How far here do you live? 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:11.600 Just took the. 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:16.440 Road, Yeah, been living here for forty eight years, same place. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.120 It's a small community. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.920 Everybody knows everybody what they do when they're going to 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.400 do it, and they just keep their mouth shut. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.320 About twenty years ago during all the manhat when the 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.080 FBI had staged over here, and we're just kind of 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.120 we're looking around and seeing if anybody was around and 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.240 had any stories around that. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.120 Stuff about Rudolph. 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.480 Yeah, oh yeah, you were around. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:43.760 Yeah live here. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.839 I was in school. This is a big deal, Eh, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.719 just another day. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.600 Do you know the family? Yes? How well? 0:04:58.320 --> 0:04:58.760 Mhmm. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.560 When they say you mean, they'd say hi, And you know, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.359 when all this I spoke back and that was it 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:06.560 to me. It was funny. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:07.680 What do you mean by that? 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.920 It's just funny because I couldn't catch one man, I said, what, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:17.400 excuse my language, what dumb ice is correct? 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:17.680 Yeah? 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.320 That fb I come to my dad's house and asked 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:26.240 him where the caves was. My dad said, I ain't 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:27.560 gonna tell you a damn thing. 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:29.680 Right, and they said. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.560 He said, if Rudolf comes to my portrait now, I 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:33.120 had feed him. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.240 Everybody helped him. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:37.400 To me. 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:38.240 He didn't do it. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.440 What do you mean he didn't blow up that place? 0:05:42.000 --> 0:06:04.799 Who didn't I don't know, but not him, not him. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:14.480 Episode five murmurations Alabama abortion clinic bombing suspect Eric Rudolph 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.480 is still on the loops. Investigators think he's taken refuge 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.120 in caves and old mines in a densely forested part 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:25.200 of North Carolina. It's early spring, nineteen ninety eight. Eric 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.000 Rudolph has been on the run since the bombing at 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.240 the Birmingham abortion clinic in January of ninety eight. 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.960 You know, he dreamed about this as a young man. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.760 He am against the world, and now it's come true, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:37.440 and hey, he's enjoying him. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.160 It's a nineteen nineties man. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.159 I'm looking for an eighteen nineties man. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.400 We were trying to be very systematic about our search, 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.400 and as with any search, there's a start point, right, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.000 so there was his trailer. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.080 Rick Schwine was an FBI supervisor in the nineteen nineties 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.960 at the Western North Carolina Branch and was assigned to 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.719 the search for Eric Rudolph. He was one of the 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.920 few who was somewhat familiar with this territory in North Carolina. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.200 And it's like throwing a pebble into a pond and 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.400 you see the rings, right, So you start with the 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.920 closest rings first and then you work your way out. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.160 This first ring for investigators was around Rudolph's trailer, the 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:18.880 one he fled from when his name was released to 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.320 the public. The second ring included the Partridge Creek home 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:27.720 that we drove past earlier, next to Tom Brandham's property. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.360 And we used a lot of different techniques, whether it 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.840 was you know, helicopters with infrared capability at night looking 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.640 for heat signatures, or it was use of man trackers, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:44.760 you know, people that had specialty skills in tracking human beings, 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.560 whether it was scent dogs, especially trained dogs. But Rudolph 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.720 had some training, so he knew how to avoid those techniques. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.720 There was an instant where we just missed him and 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.000 Andrews he had forded a river and he was foraging 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.440 and he was close to the man post and agents 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.240 came upon him. He could hear us, he could see us. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.240 It's plausible that tackle teams walked right by him and 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.880 didn't see him. That's the nature of that environment. And 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.520 it's not because of lack of trying or lack of skill. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.200 It's hide and seek on a whole different level. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.080 And for most of the investigators on the ground, especially 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:26.360 the FEDS, this region was foreign territory. This was not 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.720 their home, this was not their land. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:32.280 It's rugged. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:37.959 There are lots of vast tracks of land that's not improved, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:44.200 no roads, very few trails overgrown. The rhododendrum slicks are 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.760 really tough. There's a lot of elevation change. You know, 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.760 you'll be walking along and then there'll be a sheer cliff. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.240 One of the guys on my team slipped and fortunately 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.440 got his weapon up and caught between two trees and 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.440 it prevented him from going off a forty foot drip off. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:02.920 You know, people would get stung by. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.440 Bees or these ground, duelling wasps, there were poisonous snakes 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.559 that we would run across. We would occasionally walk across 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:16.760 the black bear, So just a lot of hazards. On 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.200 the other hand, it's an easy place to sustain yourself 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.600 right There are a lot of people that have sustenance gardens. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.040 There's a lot of stuff that you can forage and eat, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:29.240 you can hunt, there's lots of shelter out there. So 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.680 not an impossible place to sustain yourself, but a difficult 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:34.400 place to search. 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:36.640 He has the edge. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.120 They may have the helicopters, they've got the technology, but. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.800 He's got to know how and the experience in the 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.800 area that they're totally inapting. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.000 So he learned to stay between the lines of drift, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.360 which in this area is pretty easy. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.319 Between the lines of drift is really just another way 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.520 of saying off the beaten path. Paul Wolf has hiked 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.720 these trails countless times. He's a professor who teaches at 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.080 Southwestern Community College in western North Carolina, where he's the 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.400 Outdoor Leadership Program director. The Eric Rudolph story is one 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.560 that he's very familiar with, one that he saw unfold 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.440 as a local and now decades later he likes to 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.160 retrace those steps that Rudolph took. 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.680 I've been hiking leading groups in this area for over 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.400 twenty five years now, and I still discover stuff that 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.360 I didn't know was there. You can be close, you 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.960 just have to be several steps off because people are 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.600 going to take the path of least resistance so they 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.959 can just go around you. How many times do you 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.840 think he just sat there and watched folks He'd had 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.800 those Clowes encounters with hunters, same thing, Keep still lie down. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.480 If you're not looking for someone, you're not going. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:01.840 To see it. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.920 There is a home field advantage to having grown up 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.040 and lived hunted, And if he really was out there 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.040 looking for clandestine spots to grow weed, he would know 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.400 of the back of that stuff more than anybody. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.040 He grew up here. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:19.920 This is home to him. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:20.960 This is his playground. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.800 It's tough, it's rugged, and it's vast, and right now 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:30.640 he's got the upper hand because he knows these woods. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.640 And he also knew these people. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.600 But folks here a good folks in general, fiercely independent, proud, 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.160 you know, God fearing, church going, conservative in general, but 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.959 people in general are nice and friendly. Anyone will help 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.400 you out. That's one of my first experiences here with 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.439 my car broken down. A person came out in a 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.320 snowstorm and helped get me going. And when I asked 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:53.920 what I could do for him, he said, just help 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.440 return the favor to somebody something. Zoning and regulations are 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.040 drowned upon. People like to do what they want with 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.319 their land, and you know, don't like government and other 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:04.200 folks telling you. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.560 I think there were a small group of people in 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:14.720 western North Carolina that empathized with him. A lot of 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.760 the federal land out there was taken from people to 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.560 create those national forests, the Pisken and Anhala National Forests, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.600 So there are families out there that lost their farmland 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.439 or lost their homesteads, so there is sort of a mistrust. 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.720 And then there were anti government groups out there. There 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.120 were you know, supremacist groups and Christian identity groups that 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.840 were active in the search area. Rudolph had kind of 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.679 bounced around some of those groups, knew some of those people, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.040 you know, I think there was that balancing act of, hey, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.280 we need to gain the trust of people in that area. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.000 Rick connected us with a very good friend he worked 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.160 with during the search, a former at THEIE agent named 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.839 Terry Turci. Before the Rudolph case, Terry was the leader 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.000 of the FBI's task force for the unibomber Ted Kazinski. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.160 Terry spent four years building that case for trial, but 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.640 ultimately the unibomber pled guilty to avoid the death sentence 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.959 and was sent to eighty X Florence, a maximum security 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.360 prison in Florence, Colorado. Terry returned home very much, looking 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.160 forward to spending time with his wife and kids back 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.880 in San Francisco. However, two days later he was told 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.280 to get on a plane and was designated the inspector 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.079 in charge of the Eric Rudolph manhunt. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.439 One of the very first things we did, take off 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.440 the camouflage, get rid of the FBI caps, and let 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.600 these people know who you are, and give them your 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.280 card and say, look, don't think that you're calling the 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:45.240 great Big government. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.679 If you see something, If you go out one morning and. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.160 You see somebody out in your pasture that doesn't belong there, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.760 call us. These are our names. Call us, and we 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.760 will come out here. And that made it personal, and 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.240 that helped us to start getting the information we needed. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.520 On May fifth, nineteen ninety eight, nearly four months into 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.640 the search, a press conference was held announcing that Eric 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.959 Rudolf had been added to the FBI's ten Most Wanted 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.960 list with a one million dollar reward. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.200 You know, there's a flood of people, and then over time, 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.920 you know, that gets scaled back because it's expensive. And 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.800 while there were a lot of sightings, there wasn't anything 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.200 that was so credible and so actionable that you could 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.400 throw that kind of resource behind it and have a 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.800 successful outcome. Just kept getting whittled back and whittled back 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:40.600 and whittled back. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.480 And at the same time, investigators in Birmingham and Atlanta 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.040 were working hard to pull together all the physical evidence 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.320 to make a criminal case against Rudolph so that he 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:50.880 could be charged and convicted. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.200 As time passed, there were a group of us, myself included, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.480 that thought he was still alive. He was probably spending 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.600 a lot of time in western North Carolin, if not 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.400 all of his time, and that you spent a lot 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:02.800 of time in. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.160 The woods, but not everybody believed that. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.080 It's hard to find something that ain't there probably some 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.400 more drinking drinks than little umbrellas on top, and he 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.880 could be somewhere six foot down. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.760 Everything that we know about him leads just to believe 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.320 that he will not leave this area. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.600 You sit there and you wonder where could he be? 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.360 Is he dead now? Is he still around here? 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:25.440 He has been able to get out. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.640 There were people that thought he went overseas. A lot 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.680 of people thought that he had died. And you know, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.520 every time we found human remains in the search area, 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.800 we made sure they weren't Eric Rudolph's. I thought there 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:45.360 were enough indicators, enough sightings, enough odd things. For example, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.960 a house gets broken into the stereo equipment and the 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:55.920 television is left, but clothing, a big wash, fasing, you know, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.760 things that you would need to survive outside. Those are 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.000 the things that were taken. And oddly there were no fingerprints. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.360 All the prints had been white. So there were things 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.000 like that that we investigated that led me to believe 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:09.920 that he was probably still alive. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.240 And Rick was right. As law enforcement was beginning to 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.880 experience investigation fatigue, Eric Rudolph was often just a stone's 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.760 throw away, laughing at them. Then, in July of nineteen 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.600 ninety eight, two months after Eric Rudolph landed on the 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.040 FBI's ten most Wanted List, FBI agent Terry Turci gets 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:36.160 a call. A local resident named George Nordman contacted a 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.800 deputy and asked for law enforcement to come to his 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:39.600 home for a visit. 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.320 Nordman did not like, did not trust the US government. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.760 He just was one of those people who just had 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:46.920 a lot of reasons. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:47.040 He felt. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.840 For weeks, Nordman noticed that things were just off around 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.000 his house. There were fewer eggs being laid by his hens, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.360 some of his food was missing, things were out of 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.240 place inside his home, not quite where he put them. 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.440 Last he said, I'm. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.880 Here to tell you that I got home from work 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.760 the other day. Eric Rudolph was in my house. He 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.600 was having. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:13.520 Something to eat. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.440 She knew I had a lot of supplies there from 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.600 the health boot store. And here's what he said to me. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.040 He said, what I want to do, George, is I 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.920 need a truck. And Norman happened to have every car 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.240 or truck that he'd ever bought for his kids or 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:30.920 anybody else. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.119 You know, once it wore out, he just left it 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:33.920 in the driveway. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.439 So, you know, Eric wanted one of these cars, and 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.879 he wanted George to give. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:40.679 Him a lot of food. 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.240 And he said, well, I'll do is when I leave 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.600 here in the truck, I'll tie you up, put a 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.679 gag in your mouth, and I'll do all these things, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.960 and then you could tell the authorities that you had 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:56.160 no choice. And Nordonman said, I don't. I don't think 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.919 I want to do that. So they went back and forth. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.199 Finally Rudolph said, well, okay, I'll get rested up here 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:04.200 and then i'll leave again. 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.000 But I've got to get out of here. I know 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.200 I can't stay very long. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.360 Well, Nortman got up the next day and he went 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.800 to work, and before he left, he said, yeah, I 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:13.640 want you to leave. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.520 You got to leave. I don't want any part of this. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.520 And while he was at work that day Friday, Nortman 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.920 made up his mind that looked, you know, I thought 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.840 Rudolph was innocent, but now I don't think so. And 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.480 regardless of how I feel politically, I got to tell 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:34.400 somebody when he came back Rudolf had left that Rudolph 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:35.119 took a truck. 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:50.639 Anyway, Rudolph had been pressured by the army of federal 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.840 agents out there that were searching for him. He was 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.960 burning more calories than he could intake. He had been 0:18:56.040 --> 0:19:00.679 running out of food, and he was pretty successful evading us. 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.200 He was very successful in evading us, but I think 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.240 the pressure that we put on him had put him 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.600 in an unhealthy deficit from a calorie standpoint, and he 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.480 made a decision to break cover that reinvigorated the manhunt. 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.520 I was part of a tactical team swat team that 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.680 scouted the area around Norman's place, and we actually found 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.919 the spot that Rudolph had surveiled. He sat there for 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.600 a couple of days and watched Norman's place before he 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.119 approached him, and he buried some trash to conceal that 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.560 he had been there, and we were able to obtain 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:39.560 his fingerprint up. 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.879 The rappers, the food rappers that he buried. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.520 So it gave us a new start point, if you will, 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.679 and allowed us to get back on his trail. 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.600 Two days after Nordman spoke to federal authorities, his truck 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.560 that Eric Rudolf had stolen was found. There was a 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.280 note inside the windshield that read truck broke down trouble 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.560 Please contact George Nordman at better Way Health food Store Andrews, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:09.000 North Carolina. The handwriting was not Nordman's and dynamite residue 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.400 was found on the steering wheel. The task force felt vindicated. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.439 Their belief that Eric Rudolph was still in those woods 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:22.159 was confirmed. Following the Nordman tip, over two hundred federal 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.160 agents descended on the area. They now had a scent 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.560 to follow, and around this time, the FBI also officially 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.920 charged Eric Robert Rudolph with all four bombings to date. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.679 How far out could this possibly give? 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.840 We will continue until we find it, but. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:43.879 That's a large footprint to make in an area that 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.840 doesn't always take kindly to outsiders. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.760 How long can the residents of this area be expected 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:50.639 to be patient with what they have to go with. 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.560 We're going to have to be here until we find him. 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:54.960 They just got people to leave. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.800 They're ready for their small town to be back to 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:58.560 the small town. 0:20:58.920 --> 0:20:59.960 They're tired of it. 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:03.360 The presence was massive. 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.919 It was you know, SWAT teams from the southeast, the 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.640 FBI's hostage Rescue Team, there were Georgia Bureau of Investigation 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:16.600 agents that came up, and it really was several hundred 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:21.359 law enforcement officers working out of National Guard armories and 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:34.160 camp sites physically hunting for him. 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.560 Here at Apple Tree Group Camp. This was a National 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.880 Forest Group campground. There are four designated sites here. Two 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.120 of the sites hold up to twenty five people. Two 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.000 of the sites hold up to fifty. 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.320 Apple Tree Group camp housed over two hundred agents during 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.520 the height of the search, eighty of whom were sent 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.280 into the mountains every day to actively search for Rudolph. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:55.760 Our guide Paul, showed us around the site. 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.719 The FBI was spending over sixteen thousand dollars a night 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.680