1 00:00:11,697 --> 00:00:14,977 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 2 00:00:15,017 --> 00:00:17,977 Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 3 00:00:18,017 --> 00:00:21,977 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Welcome to the 4 00:00:21,977 --> 00:00:24,977 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, our friend Julie Kelly 5 00:00:25,337 --> 00:00:28,737 Speaker 1: joins she has a substack you should definitely subscribe to. 6 00:00:29,417 --> 00:00:33,337 Speaker 1: It's called Declassified with Julie Kelly and Julie It has 7 00:00:33,377 --> 00:00:35,817 Speaker 1: been a busy week. Thanks for being here. 8 00:00:37,217 --> 00:00:41,257 Speaker 2: Another busy week never ends, so but thanks as always 9 00:00:41,297 --> 00:00:42,177 Speaker 2: for having me on Buck. 10 00:00:42,537 --> 00:00:46,377 Speaker 1: So let's start with this one. What do you think 11 00:00:46,457 --> 00:00:50,657 Speaker 1: happens in You follow the J six cases very closely, 12 00:00:50,777 --> 00:00:53,577 Speaker 1: more closely for a longer period of time than anyone else. 13 00:00:53,617 --> 00:00:56,897 Speaker 1: I know you knew Trump was going to be indicted. 14 00:00:56,937 --> 00:00:59,657 Speaker 1: You said it on our radio show a year before 15 00:00:59,777 --> 00:01:03,417 Speaker 1: he was indicted, Roughly a year before you said you 16 00:01:03,457 --> 00:01:06,297 Speaker 1: had one hundred and ten percent certainty. What do you 17 00:01:06,337 --> 00:01:09,817 Speaker 1: think happens with this Atlanta case? Like I know, no 18 00:01:09,897 --> 00:01:12,417 Speaker 1: one knows, But how do you see it playing out? 19 00:01:14,297 --> 00:01:18,417 Speaker 2: Well? I see it playing out that special counsel Jack Smith. 20 00:01:18,457 --> 00:01:21,137 Speaker 2: As I wrote on my latest sub stack, the pressure 21 00:01:21,377 --> 00:01:25,697 Speaker 2: is on him now because what Fanny Willis did this 22 00:01:25,777 --> 00:01:29,057 Speaker 2: week in her forty one count indictment against Donald Trump 23 00:01:29,057 --> 00:01:32,817 Speaker 2: in eighteen others. She really delivered the goods buck that 24 00:01:32,897 --> 00:01:37,417 Speaker 2: the media and the Democratic Party voter base wants to see. 25 00:01:37,777 --> 00:01:40,737 Speaker 2: They want to see very serious charges not just against 26 00:01:40,817 --> 00:01:44,497 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but some of the most despised figures by 27 00:01:44,497 --> 00:01:48,697 Speaker 2: the left, Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, Jeffrey Clark. And that's 28 00:01:48,697 --> 00:01:52,057 Speaker 2: what Fanny Willis delivered in her indictment. And she was 29 00:01:52,177 --> 00:01:56,617 Speaker 2: very confident in her press breathing afterwards. She said that 30 00:01:56,697 --> 00:01:59,857 Speaker 2: she is going to try this case all nineteen defendants together, 31 00:02:00,897 --> 00:02:03,937 Speaker 2: and so she is moving forward. Now, contrast that with 32 00:02:04,137 --> 00:02:07,337 Speaker 2: Jack Smith's it kind of looks like a paltry for 33 00:02:07,577 --> 00:02:11,777 Speaker 2: count federal indictment against Donald Trump. Are attempting to overthrow 34 00:02:11,817 --> 00:02:15,577 Speaker 2: the election, the government and overturn the results and then 35 00:02:15,617 --> 00:02:18,617 Speaker 2: the events of January sixth. So the pressure is on 36 00:02:18,817 --> 00:02:21,777 Speaker 2: Jack Smith. I've always suggested too, that he would bring 37 00:02:21,777 --> 00:02:25,497 Speaker 2: what's called a superseding indictment on his existing indictment the 38 00:02:25,537 --> 00:02:28,937 Speaker 2: four counts. We know that there are six co conspirators 39 00:02:29,017 --> 00:02:32,857 Speaker 2: listed in his indictment, five of whom now have been 40 00:02:32,897 --> 00:02:35,817 Speaker 2: charged by Fanny Willis. Well, look, Jack Smith is a 41 00:02:35,857 --> 00:02:40,817 Speaker 2: longtime DOJ operative, He's a Democratic operative, he's got a 42 00:02:40,817 --> 00:02:43,617 Speaker 2: big ego, and I doubt that he's going to let 43 00:02:43,817 --> 00:02:46,137 Speaker 2: Danny Willis, you know, who's been a DA for two 44 00:02:46,217 --> 00:02:49,857 Speaker 2: and a half years, steal his thunder. So that's why 45 00:02:49,937 --> 00:02:53,417 Speaker 2: I think that this indictment looms larger in the Special 46 00:02:53,457 --> 00:02:58,497 Speaker 2: Council's case and moving forward than anything else politically. 47 00:02:59,057 --> 00:03:04,377 Speaker 1: What there's some interesting theories out there, and there's some 48 00:03:04,417 --> 00:03:06,657 Speaker 1: positions people are already taking that I wanted to run 49 00:03:06,697 --> 00:03:09,177 Speaker 1: through and just get your sense of it. A first off, 50 00:03:11,297 --> 00:03:14,417 Speaker 1: when people say all of these trials will be delayed 51 00:03:14,457 --> 00:03:17,457 Speaker 1: until after the election, trial by trial, how do you 52 00:03:17,537 --> 00:03:17,857 Speaker 1: view that. 53 00:03:19,657 --> 00:03:22,217 Speaker 2: I believe that that's true. I think it will be 54 00:03:22,337 --> 00:03:25,097 Speaker 2: nearly impossible for Jacksmith to put on both of his 55 00:03:25,177 --> 00:03:30,377 Speaker 2: classified documents and January sixth trial before November. And Fanny 56 00:03:30,377 --> 00:03:31,857 Speaker 2: will Is the idea that she's going to be able 57 00:03:31,937 --> 00:03:35,537 Speaker 2: to try nineteen defendants, including the former president, within the 58 00:03:35,537 --> 00:03:37,857 Speaker 2: next six months, which is what she suggested at a 59 00:03:37,857 --> 00:03:41,377 Speaker 2: press conference, just is not feasible. I think even trying 60 00:03:41,377 --> 00:03:43,737 Speaker 2: to bring this case to trial in a year, this 61 00:03:43,857 --> 00:03:49,457 Speaker 2: wide ranging case that involves multiple states outside of her jurisdiction. 62 00:03:50,057 --> 00:03:51,777 Speaker 2: There's going to be a lot of back and forth 63 00:03:51,817 --> 00:03:55,977 Speaker 2: between these nineteen defendants attorneys and the Fulton County District 64 00:03:56,017 --> 00:03:57,177 Speaker 2: Attorney's office. 65 00:03:57,577 --> 00:04:02,017 Speaker 1: Do you think that the Fanny Willis case in Atlanta 66 00:04:02,977 --> 00:04:07,617 Speaker 1: is going to get likely moved to federal court? There's 67 00:04:07,657 --> 00:04:10,817 Speaker 1: some apparently some ability to move even though would be 68 00:04:10,857 --> 00:04:13,777 Speaker 1: state charges, the federal court could oversee it. Do you 69 00:04:13,777 --> 00:04:15,457 Speaker 1: have an opinion on that? Is you know, there's a 70 00:04:15,497 --> 00:04:18,137 Speaker 1: lot of theories swhirling around. 71 00:04:18,577 --> 00:04:21,777 Speaker 2: Right, so, I've seen some suggestions about that. I believe 72 00:04:21,817 --> 00:04:25,097 Speaker 2: that former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has already moved 73 00:04:25,097 --> 00:04:28,737 Speaker 2: to sever his involvement in the local case, arguing that 74 00:04:28,817 --> 00:04:31,217 Speaker 2: because he was a federal employee at the time, and 75 00:04:31,257 --> 00:04:33,697 Speaker 2: of course he was working in Washington, DC, he wasn't 76 00:04:33,737 --> 00:04:36,857 Speaker 2: in Georgia, that this is something that should be handled 77 00:04:37,097 --> 00:04:40,097 Speaker 2: by the federal courts. Now, Buck, this could be how 78 00:04:40,217 --> 00:04:42,617 Speaker 2: Jack Smith could kind of swoop in and take over 79 00:04:42,777 --> 00:04:46,537 Speaker 2: elements of Fanny Willis's case. Especially Buck, since I did 80 00:04:46,577 --> 00:04:49,137 Speaker 2: a cursory review of the one hundred and sixty one 81 00:04:49,217 --> 00:04:52,817 Speaker 2: overt acts that she lists in her indictment, roughly only 82 00:04:52,897 --> 00:04:55,817 Speaker 2: half of them have anything to do with Georgia. I mean, 83 00:04:55,857 --> 00:04:59,377 Speaker 2: she's talking about phone conversations that relate to things happening 84 00:04:59,417 --> 00:05:03,737 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, in Arizona and Michigan has nothing to do 85 00:05:03,937 --> 00:05:08,337 Speaker 2: far outside of her prosecutorial reach. So there could be 86 00:05:08,657 --> 00:05:11,617 Speaker 2: this tension that might exist between Jack Smith and Fanny 87 00:05:11,617 --> 00:05:15,697 Speaker 2: Willis's office. Now, some of this could give I guess, 88 00:05:15,817 --> 00:05:19,937 Speaker 2: legal justification for Jack Smith for taking over parts of 89 00:05:21,257 --> 00:05:22,697 Speaker 2: Fanny Willis's indictment. 90 00:05:23,137 --> 00:05:26,137 Speaker 1: So let's assume that the timeline issue is correct. So 91 00:05:26,177 --> 00:05:29,577 Speaker 1: you think they'll all be delayed? I mean I saw 92 00:05:29,657 --> 00:05:32,137 Speaker 1: Alan Dershwood said he thought all four would happen before 93 00:05:32,177 --> 00:05:35,057 Speaker 1: the election, and then twenty four hours later he said, well, 94 00:05:35,057 --> 00:05:37,337 Speaker 1: I don't think Atlanta is going to happen before the election, 95 00:05:37,577 --> 00:05:39,497 Speaker 1: so he might give it a couple of days. He 96 00:05:39,577 --> 00:05:41,217 Speaker 1: might say none of them are going to happen before 97 00:05:41,257 --> 00:05:46,737 Speaker 1: the election. And to that end, what then does this 98 00:05:46,897 --> 00:05:50,217 Speaker 1: just turn into very expensive legal bills and a lot 99 00:05:50,217 --> 00:05:54,217 Speaker 1: of motions And that's just what goes on between now 100 00:05:54,217 --> 00:05:57,217 Speaker 1: and the election. And the idea then is if Trump wins, 101 00:05:57,377 --> 00:06:01,457 Speaker 1: this all goes away effectively. Right, that's really so is 102 00:06:01,497 --> 00:06:03,497 Speaker 1: this all just for politics? If they really can't get 103 00:06:03,537 --> 00:06:05,657 Speaker 1: any of these trials done. Why are they bringing all 104 00:06:05,657 --> 00:06:08,097 Speaker 1: these indictments? It's just a muddy Trump up. Is that 105 00:06:08,137 --> 00:06:11,537 Speaker 1: really you know? Do you think they think that the prosecutors, 106 00:06:11,577 --> 00:06:13,257 Speaker 1: that that's what this is all about, or do they 107 00:06:13,257 --> 00:06:14,857 Speaker 1: really think they're going to be able to get one 108 00:06:14,897 --> 00:06:18,337 Speaker 1: of these trials Let's say in advance of the election. 109 00:06:19,497 --> 00:06:23,337 Speaker 2: Well, remember, Fanny Willis is very inexperienced district attorney. She 110 00:06:23,457 --> 00:06:26,177 Speaker 2: might be very politically ambitious, and she was successful in 111 00:06:26,217 --> 00:06:30,257 Speaker 2: bringing together what I call this movie script type indictment 112 00:06:30,377 --> 00:06:34,017 Speaker 2: blow by blow of what happened between election day and 113 00:06:34,097 --> 00:06:37,137 Speaker 2: January sixth, But that doesn't mean that she's skilled and 114 00:06:37,217 --> 00:06:39,897 Speaker 2: experienced enough, no matter how tough her team is, to 115 00:06:39,977 --> 00:06:44,257 Speaker 2: put something on precedent like this together before a Fulton 116 00:06:44,297 --> 00:06:48,177 Speaker 2: County jury. Secondly, look at what's happening in Southern Florida 117 00:06:48,257 --> 00:06:52,257 Speaker 2: the Classified Documents case. That trial has already been set 118 00:06:52,297 --> 00:06:55,257 Speaker 2: for May of twenty twenty four, but in the interim book, 119 00:06:55,537 --> 00:07:00,977 Speaker 2: Jack Smith added a superseding indictment, which, in multiple examples 120 00:07:01,617 --> 00:07:04,657 Speaker 2: then further delays the trial. Because you added a defendant, 121 00:07:04,737 --> 00:07:07,137 Speaker 2: you added charges against Donald Trump. You kind of set 122 00:07:07,177 --> 00:07:11,177 Speaker 2: the Speedy Trial Act clock back to z Z, So 123 00:07:11,217 --> 00:07:13,817 Speaker 2: this could be a reason why Judge Cannon could delay 124 00:07:13,857 --> 00:07:17,417 Speaker 2: that trial even further. She may even dismiss that case 125 00:07:17,617 --> 00:07:20,857 Speaker 2: entirely amid abuses of the grand jury process, which she's 126 00:07:20,937 --> 00:07:24,097 Speaker 2: hinted at, because, of course, the entire investigation was conducted 127 00:07:24,137 --> 00:07:27,857 Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. Not in Southern Florida, the alleged 128 00:07:27,857 --> 00:07:30,057 Speaker 2: scene of the crime. So there's lots of problems for 129 00:07:30,217 --> 00:07:32,817 Speaker 2: Jack Smith in the Southern District of Florida, and he 130 00:07:32,857 --> 00:07:35,737 Speaker 2: knows it DC is a little bit different. Of course, 131 00:07:35,777 --> 00:07:38,857 Speaker 2: you have an Obama judge, a brazen partisan who's already 132 00:07:38,857 --> 00:07:42,897 Speaker 2: made really inappropriate in court comments that I've already reported 133 00:07:42,937 --> 00:07:46,057 Speaker 2: on and will continue to do so about Donald Trump 134 00:07:46,097 --> 00:07:49,297 Speaker 2: and January sixth and the twenty twenty election. She's extremely 135 00:07:49,377 --> 00:07:53,217 Speaker 2: opinionated and biased, so we already see how she's going 136 00:07:53,297 --> 00:07:56,377 Speaker 2: to help DOJ move this along. But if Jack Smith 137 00:07:56,377 --> 00:08:00,737 Speaker 2: brings additional charges and co defendants, if he brings a 138 00:08:00,817 --> 00:08:05,977 Speaker 2: charge like seditious conspiracy, this will undoubtedly delay this trial 139 00:08:06,097 --> 00:08:10,177 Speaker 2: deep into twenty twenty four because of all of the 140 00:08:10,217 --> 00:08:13,457 Speaker 2: evidence that will be involved discovery, the hearings. They want 141 00:08:13,497 --> 00:08:19,217 Speaker 2: to also Classified Information Act Protective order in the January 142 00:08:19,257 --> 00:08:22,617 Speaker 2: sixth case, as well as classified documents, which also delays 143 00:08:22,617 --> 00:08:24,937 Speaker 2: the process. So the bottom line is, I don't see 144 00:08:24,977 --> 00:08:27,977 Speaker 2: any of these trials. Fannie Willis might try to pull 145 00:08:28,017 --> 00:08:31,497 Speaker 2: it off, but I certainly don't see either federal trial 146 00:08:31,577 --> 00:08:32,777 Speaker 2: happening before the election. 147 00:08:33,697 --> 00:08:37,057 Speaker 1: So what do you think their calculation is from their perspective, 148 00:08:37,057 --> 00:08:40,777 Speaker 1: because they could have brought either of those indictments far 149 00:08:40,897 --> 00:08:45,137 Speaker 1: earlier than they did, right, So did they miscalculate? You know, 150 00:08:45,177 --> 00:08:48,897 Speaker 1: do you think Jack Smith miscalculated the speed with which 151 00:08:48,937 --> 00:08:53,097 Speaker 1: these indictments could actually result in a trial and possible 152 00:08:53,137 --> 00:08:56,977 Speaker 1: conviction or was it this was just all political anyway? 153 00:08:57,017 --> 00:09:00,217 Speaker 1: And so the whole point effectively for them, the guilt 154 00:09:00,297 --> 00:09:02,897 Speaker 1: or innocence doesn't matter. It's just bringing the charge is 155 00:09:02,937 --> 00:09:03,977 Speaker 1: the whole point, you know what I mean? 156 00:09:04,697 --> 00:09:07,097 Speaker 2: That's right, Buck, You're exactly right. This is death by 157 00:09:07,137 --> 00:09:10,617 Speaker 2: a thousand cuts. We see already how these indictments have 158 00:09:10,697 --> 00:09:14,617 Speaker 2: tried to erase the emerging scandal related to Joe Biden 159 00:09:14,697 --> 00:09:17,617 Speaker 2: and his family and the investigations and prosecutions that are 160 00:09:17,617 --> 00:09:21,417 Speaker 2: happening there. So as soon as House Republicans or say 161 00:09:21,417 --> 00:09:25,817 Speaker 2: that sweetheart plea deal fell apart, DOJ, jack Smith swoops 162 00:09:25,857 --> 00:09:28,937 Speaker 2: in with a new case with the superseding indictment with 163 00:09:29,017 --> 00:09:34,617 Speaker 2: some controversial motion. That is jack Smith's marching orders. He 164 00:09:34,737 --> 00:09:37,977 Speaker 2: knows this. Jack Smith worked in the Obama DOJ for 165 00:09:38,057 --> 00:09:41,497 Speaker 2: four and a half years. He understands he also was 166 00:09:41,577 --> 00:09:44,417 Speaker 2: involved in the monitoring of the Tea Party. He is 167 00:09:44,457 --> 00:09:47,697 Speaker 2: a Democratic operative disguised as a federal prosecutor, so he 168 00:09:47,737 --> 00:09:51,977 Speaker 2: wields tremendous power to either add charges ad defendants. A 169 00:09:52,097 --> 00:09:55,217 Speaker 2: new indictment against the six co conspirators he named in 170 00:09:55,257 --> 00:09:58,057 Speaker 2: the January sixth He could indict three of them, then 171 00:09:58,097 --> 00:10:00,977 Speaker 2: he could indict three others. You know this. He could 172 00:10:01,057 --> 00:10:03,137 Speaker 2: drag this out as long as he wants. And he 173 00:10:03,257 --> 00:10:05,577 Speaker 2: knows that because in the January sixth case we have 174 00:10:05,617 --> 00:10:08,257 Speaker 2: tany Chutkin is going to allow him to do whatever 175 00:10:08,337 --> 00:10:13,497 Speaker 2: he wants. That's the that is the primary agenda behind 176 00:10:13,697 --> 00:10:16,817 Speaker 2: the January sixth indictment by jack Smith is death by 177 00:10:16,857 --> 00:10:20,897 Speaker 2: one thousand cuts. Use this for political advantage against Trump 178 00:10:21,057 --> 00:10:24,577 Speaker 2: and also to cover up Biden family or Democratic Party scandals. 179 00:10:24,617 --> 00:10:26,697 Speaker 2: At the same time, I also. 180 00:10:26,457 --> 00:10:29,617 Speaker 1: Want to ask you about the pardon possibilities that people 181 00:10:29,617 --> 00:10:32,097 Speaker 1: are talking about. 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That's ai coin twenty 198 00:11:20,937 --> 00:11:24,857 Speaker 1: twenty three dot com paid for by Palm Beach Research Group. 199 00:11:26,137 --> 00:11:29,457 Speaker 1: So do you think that the way this so? If 200 00:11:29,457 --> 00:11:33,217 Speaker 1: Trump wins, he pardons himself from everything and even now 201 00:11:33,297 --> 00:11:37,497 Speaker 1: possibly some are arguing the Atlanta the Atlanta charges as well, 202 00:11:37,537 --> 00:11:39,577 Speaker 1: So it doesn't even matter if he's found guilty, right, 203 00:11:39,577 --> 00:11:42,417 Speaker 1: because so pardon doesn't. You don't have to wait for 204 00:11:42,457 --> 00:11:46,297 Speaker 1: a guilty verdict to pardon yourself. So do you think 205 00:11:45,817 --> 00:11:48,057 Speaker 1: is that the plan here is that how it goes 206 00:11:48,097 --> 00:11:49,097 Speaker 1: assuming Trump wins. 207 00:11:50,337 --> 00:11:52,457 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that is the only hope 208 00:11:52,817 --> 00:11:55,057 Speaker 2: that he will not end up in prison is if 209 00:11:55,057 --> 00:11:59,457 Speaker 2: he does win and he pardons himself and everyone else 210 00:11:59,617 --> 00:12:03,177 Speaker 2: involved in this, including Buck the more than eleven hundred 211 00:12:03,257 --> 00:12:06,777 Speaker 2: American citizens who have been charged, mostly for misdemeanors related 212 00:12:06,777 --> 00:12:08,817 Speaker 2: to January sixth. So this isn't as you and I 213 00:12:08,817 --> 00:12:11,257 Speaker 2: have talked about, you know, just about Trump and his 214 00:12:12,097 --> 00:12:15,217 Speaker 2: high level associates. This is for regular Americans with no 215 00:12:15,257 --> 00:12:17,857 Speaker 2: criminal record, whose lives have been destroyed at the hands 216 00:12:18,017 --> 00:12:21,497 Speaker 2: of this DOJ to punish them for protesting Joe Biden's 217 00:12:21,537 --> 00:12:24,857 Speaker 2: election on January sixth. So yes, his only hope is 218 00:12:24,897 --> 00:12:27,977 Speaker 2: to win and part in himself. Otherwise his trials will commence, 219 00:12:28,097 --> 00:12:31,617 Speaker 2: especially in Washington, d C. He will be convicted by 220 00:12:31,737 --> 00:12:35,817 Speaker 2: DC jury and he will be sentenced by Judge Tanya Chutkin. 221 00:12:36,657 --> 00:12:39,897 Speaker 2: And that's the really scary reality for Donald Trump if 222 00:12:39,937 --> 00:12:41,337 Speaker 2: he does not win the presidency. 223 00:12:43,377 --> 00:12:46,857 Speaker 1: I mean, as you'd think that the stakes for a 224 00:12:46,857 --> 00:12:50,897 Speaker 1: presidential election are high enough, and you add this to it, 225 00:12:51,457 --> 00:12:55,177 Speaker 1: and it also not even you mentioned there's j six 226 00:12:55,217 --> 00:13:00,457 Speaker 1: defendants people in Trump's orbit now too. I wouldn't want 227 00:13:00,457 --> 00:13:03,697 Speaker 1: to be in the shoes of say Mark Meadows, Orujiuliani 228 00:13:03,777 --> 00:13:08,657 Speaker 1: or Sidney Power or any of them in middle of 229 00:13:08,697 --> 00:13:12,937 Speaker 1: November or in early November if Biden somehow or people 230 00:13:12,977 --> 00:13:15,097 Speaker 1: are going to yell at me it's newsome whatever. If 231 00:13:15,097 --> 00:13:20,217 Speaker 1: a Democrat wins, I think that that's bad for a 232 00:13:20,257 --> 00:13:22,497 Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean, legally speaking, I mean I 233 00:13:22,497 --> 00:13:23,777 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of people who would be 234 00:13:23,777 --> 00:13:25,057 Speaker 1: in real criminal jeopardy. 235 00:13:26,737 --> 00:13:29,657 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. I mean if Joe Biden or whoever the 236 00:13:29,697 --> 00:13:35,177 Speaker 2: Democrat is wins, they will continue this DOJ selective prosecution. 237 00:13:35,657 --> 00:13:38,097 Speaker 2: Then they really will go to trial, and they really 238 00:13:38,137 --> 00:13:40,777 Speaker 2: will get convictions, not just for Trump but high level 239 00:13:40,817 --> 00:13:43,457 Speaker 2: people who you just spoke of, and they will be 240 00:13:43,537 --> 00:13:46,377 Speaker 2: going to prison because that's an almost certainty. 241 00:13:46,457 --> 00:13:46,537 Speaker 1: What. 242 00:13:46,697 --> 00:13:50,417 Speaker 2: Look, there's a reason why DOJ has a near perfect 243 00:13:50,417 --> 00:13:55,017 Speaker 2: conviction rate for January six cases in Washington, DC. You know, 244 00:13:55,057 --> 00:13:58,977 Speaker 2: you get convictions guilty verdicts and record time on absurd 245 00:13:59,057 --> 00:14:02,857 Speaker 2: charges like obstruction of an official preceding or even seditious conspiracy, 246 00:14:03,337 --> 00:14:06,177 Speaker 2: and then the judges come back and ask for excessive 247 00:14:06,577 --> 00:14:11,457 Speaker 2: prison sentences. I mean they've asked for fourteen, fifteen, eighteen, 248 00:14:11,537 --> 00:14:15,897 Speaker 2: twenty years in prison for a ridiculous seditious conspiracy conviction, which, 249 00:14:16,017 --> 00:14:19,577 Speaker 2: by the way, no American before January sixth was convicted 250 00:14:19,617 --> 00:14:24,537 Speaker 2: of seditious conspiracy. This is entirely new way to weaponize 251 00:14:24,577 --> 00:14:31,337 Speaker 2: a long dormant Civil War era statute against the political protesters. 252 00:14:31,977 --> 00:14:35,817 Speaker 2: So the way that they're weaponizing quickly weaponizing regular or 253 00:14:36,337 --> 00:14:41,857 Speaker 2: arcane statutes like seditious conspiracy or a post enron tampering 254 00:14:41,857 --> 00:14:45,937 Speaker 2: with evidence and witness felony like obstruction of an official proceeding, 255 00:14:46,297 --> 00:14:49,337 Speaker 2: This is the sort of precedence that DOJ has already 256 00:14:49,377 --> 00:14:53,257 Speaker 2: set and judges have given their impromoter So god forbid 257 00:14:53,257 --> 00:14:58,137 Speaker 2: a Democrat wins again, they will only continue this and 258 00:14:58,537 --> 00:15:00,857 Speaker 2: who knows, add more cases and more trials and more 259 00:15:00,857 --> 00:15:03,017 Speaker 2: defendants after twenty twenty five. 260 00:15:03,417 --> 00:15:05,697 Speaker 1: Julie, I mean you've been you've been very close to this, 261 00:15:07,417 --> 00:15:10,577 Speaker 1: and you've been following this very very much for the 262 00:15:10,657 --> 00:15:14,457 Speaker 1: duration of the really the height of the get Trump era, right, 263 00:15:14,497 --> 00:15:17,057 Speaker 1: so we could call that from twenty twenty to present, 264 00:15:17,737 --> 00:15:20,297 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the pinnacle of the multi pronged 265 00:15:20,537 --> 00:15:25,217 Speaker 1: destroy Trump operation that has been run. Are do you 266 00:15:25,217 --> 00:15:27,457 Speaker 1: ever just feel like what the hell is going on? 267 00:15:28,057 --> 00:15:30,177 Speaker 1: Does it ever just feel like things have just gotten 268 00:15:30,217 --> 00:15:32,577 Speaker 1: so crazy that it's hard to believe that this is 269 00:15:32,577 --> 00:15:34,537 Speaker 1: what's going on? Like, how do you process that? 270 00:15:36,297 --> 00:15:39,657 Speaker 2: Well? Thanks for that question. I actually get it occasionally 271 00:15:40,017 --> 00:15:43,457 Speaker 2: and I don't. Yes, sometimes I step back and think, 272 00:15:43,537 --> 00:15:46,697 Speaker 2: I can't believe that we are here covering what's happening 273 00:15:46,737 --> 00:15:49,977 Speaker 2: to our country in real time. I mean, these are 274 00:15:50,017 --> 00:15:51,977 Speaker 2: things we just never thought that we would see in 275 00:15:52,017 --> 00:15:55,417 Speaker 2: our lifetime, and not only are they unfolding before our eyes, 276 00:15:55,457 --> 00:16:00,257 Speaker 2: but happening very quickly. And the interests who used to 277 00:16:00,257 --> 00:16:03,297 Speaker 2: defend the rights, you know of defendants who used to 278 00:16:03,337 --> 00:16:08,857 Speaker 2: call out bad behavior by judges and corruption ideal by prosecutors, 279 00:16:08,977 --> 00:16:12,297 Speaker 2: you know, they're now cheering and applauding it. It's really 280 00:16:12,337 --> 00:16:18,457 Speaker 2: scary to see this happening in real time. And what's 281 00:16:18,497 --> 00:16:21,057 Speaker 2: even scarier is how we get out of it. You know, 282 00:16:21,177 --> 00:16:24,017 Speaker 2: how how do we win? How do we prevail over 283 00:16:24,057 --> 00:16:29,737 Speaker 2: these corrupt, vicious, vengeful, powerful interests. You know, I called 284 00:16:29,737 --> 00:16:33,137 Speaker 2: these line prosecutors and judges. I've called them sadists because 285 00:16:33,177 --> 00:16:36,217 Speaker 2: not only are they abusing their power, they're very gratified 286 00:16:36,617 --> 00:16:40,577 Speaker 2: by inflicting pain on vulnerable individuals. This is the sort 287 00:16:40,577 --> 00:16:43,617 Speaker 2: of thing we see in Marxist banana republics, and we're 288 00:16:43,617 --> 00:16:47,017 Speaker 2: seeing it happen in our own nation's capital. So yeah, 289 00:16:47,177 --> 00:16:50,537 Speaker 2: it's it's pretty haunting, but I think you probably feel 290 00:16:50,537 --> 00:16:52,937 Speaker 2: the same way. Bucket just motivates you more. You know, 291 00:16:52,977 --> 00:16:54,857 Speaker 2: you just have to digging in. 292 00:16:55,137 --> 00:16:56,817 Speaker 1: We just got to dig in and win. Right, This 293 00:16:56,897 --> 00:16:58,577 Speaker 1: is dig in and win is really I think the 294 00:16:58,897 --> 00:17:02,937 Speaker 1: mantra now, and I mean that when legally, when politically, 295 00:17:03,097 --> 00:17:06,857 Speaker 1: when you know, just there's no the back against the 296 00:17:06,897 --> 00:17:08,777 Speaker 1: wall is I think what everybody feels here. I want 297 00:17:08,777 --> 00:17:10,977 Speaker 1: to ask you about the Supreme Court and that theory 298 00:17:11,017 --> 00:17:14,577 Speaker 1: as well. Here in just a second, Julie. 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Julie, 314 00:17:57,017 --> 00:17:59,657 Speaker 1: what do you make of the You know, these are 315 00:17:59,657 --> 00:18:01,697 Speaker 1: the it's almost like I choose your own adventure, but 316 00:18:01,737 --> 00:18:04,417 Speaker 1: it's kind of choose your own pathway to avoid the 317 00:18:04,417 --> 00:18:07,417 Speaker 1: destruction of the United States? What do you make of 318 00:18:07,937 --> 00:18:11,217 Speaker 1: Don't worry. The Supreme Court is going to weigh in 319 00:18:11,217 --> 00:18:14,737 Speaker 1: in each one of these cases and Trump will be 320 00:18:14,937 --> 00:18:17,097 Speaker 1: like that will bail Trump out in each one of 321 00:18:17,137 --> 00:18:18,177 Speaker 1: these cases at all four. 322 00:18:20,097 --> 00:18:23,217 Speaker 2: I mean, I just don't see that happening. I mean, 323 00:18:23,217 --> 00:18:28,057 Speaker 2: we saw the Supreme Court really very recklessly refused to 324 00:18:28,137 --> 00:18:30,897 Speaker 2: hear any of the election lawsuits that were filed not 325 00:18:30,977 --> 00:18:34,257 Speaker 2: just by Donald Trump but in Pennsylvania, and then the 326 00:18:34,297 --> 00:18:38,777 Speaker 2: lawsuit filed by attorney Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. They 327 00:18:38,817 --> 00:18:42,737 Speaker 2: wouldn't even give this a hearing, those concerns of hearing, 328 00:18:42,857 --> 00:18:44,737 Speaker 2: So I don't really see them as stepping up for 329 00:18:44,817 --> 00:18:47,617 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. But the flip side of that book is 330 00:18:47,617 --> 00:18:50,697 Speaker 2: that this obstruction of an official proceeding, that this fifteen 331 00:18:50,777 --> 00:18:54,457 Speaker 2: twelve c to the post en Roun tampering with evidence 332 00:18:54,457 --> 00:18:57,097 Speaker 2: and witness felony. It has already made its way through 333 00:18:57,137 --> 00:18:59,217 Speaker 2: the DC Appellate Court. They got what was called a 334 00:18:59,297 --> 00:19:02,817 Speaker 2: splintered ruling. Now you have two defense attorneys who have 335 00:19:02,857 --> 00:19:06,977 Speaker 2: filed certification at cert at the Supreme Court to have 336 00:19:07,097 --> 00:19:13,097 Speaker 2: them here the appeal and to vet the use of 337 00:19:13,177 --> 00:19:16,537 Speaker 2: this novel charge against political protesters. Now more than three 338 00:19:16,617 --> 00:19:19,817 Speaker 2: hundred individuals who have been charged with that, including the President. 339 00:19:20,937 --> 00:19:25,617 Speaker 2: So this has a legal mind of its own, per 340 00:19:25,697 --> 00:19:29,417 Speaker 2: se that especially this key charge against Donald Trump, one 341 00:19:29,457 --> 00:19:33,377 Speaker 2: of the four is already potentially pending at the Supreme Court. 342 00:19:33,497 --> 00:19:37,137 Speaker 2: If the Supreme Court rules regardless of Donald Trump, the 343 00:19:37,217 --> 00:19:41,657 Speaker 2: legitimacy of using that tampering with evidence and witness statute 344 00:19:41,657 --> 00:19:45,057 Speaker 2: against political protesters. If they do say that the government 345 00:19:45,137 --> 00:19:49,417 Speaker 2: misapplied that statute and toss it against these three hundred 346 00:19:49,457 --> 00:19:52,657 Speaker 2: or so individuals, that's a big risk for jack Smith 347 00:19:52,817 --> 00:19:55,857 Speaker 2: as well. So what happens if that happens while they're 348 00:19:55,897 --> 00:19:58,097 Speaker 2: waiting for this case to go to trial, the obstruction 349 00:19:58,177 --> 00:20:00,457 Speaker 2: count to go to trial. What happens if somehow he 350 00:20:00,497 --> 00:20:03,497 Speaker 2: gets a conviction or the very rare chance he gets 351 00:20:03,497 --> 00:20:07,217 Speaker 2: a plea deal on that. That's again why Buck, I 352 00:20:07,297 --> 00:20:09,297 Speaker 2: don't think this is the end, this is the last 353 00:20:09,337 --> 00:20:12,857 Speaker 2: word for Jackson, because that's such a risky charge right now, 354 00:20:13,137 --> 00:20:15,697 Speaker 2: it could go in a lot of different directions in 355 00:20:15,777 --> 00:20:18,977 Speaker 2: the appellate court, other cases pending at the appellate court, 356 00:20:19,097 --> 00:20:21,657 Speaker 2: and then of course now possibly pending at the Supreme Court. 357 00:20:21,937 --> 00:20:25,017 Speaker 2: But I do not see a situation where the Supreme Court, 358 00:20:25,337 --> 00:20:28,257 Speaker 2: which has three trumpet pointees on it, two of whom 359 00:20:28,257 --> 00:20:30,497 Speaker 2: have sort of gone out of their way to distance 360 00:20:30,537 --> 00:20:33,217 Speaker 2: themselves from Donald Trump, where they would come in and 361 00:20:33,297 --> 00:20:37,057 Speaker 2: rescue any convictions that he gets in these federal cases. 362 00:20:38,777 --> 00:20:43,617 Speaker 1: It's stunning. Just one more thing on your point about 363 00:20:43,617 --> 00:20:48,097 Speaker 1: the superseding indictment if the timelines just aren't going to 364 00:20:48,137 --> 00:20:51,497 Speaker 1: work in terms of getting their cases to trial before 365 00:20:52,097 --> 00:20:54,377 Speaker 1: the American people get to vote in twenty twenty four. 366 00:20:55,937 --> 00:20:57,657 Speaker 1: Do you then, do you agree? Because my thinking on 367 00:20:57,737 --> 00:20:59,537 Speaker 1: this would be, well, of course there should be a 368 00:20:59,777 --> 00:21:02,497 Speaker 1: Jack Smith should he might as well go for insurrection 369 00:21:02,617 --> 00:21:06,777 Speaker 1: at that point, right, right, because then that becomes the narrative. 370 00:21:06,897 --> 00:21:08,617 Speaker 1: It doesn't right, it doesn't matter if he's going to 371 00:21:08,657 --> 00:21:10,697 Speaker 1: get a conviction on it or not. That's the much 372 00:21:10,737 --> 00:21:13,057 Speaker 1: more powerful political hit. 373 00:21:15,217 --> 00:21:19,897 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, And he really could aside from seditious conspiracy, 374 00:21:20,417 --> 00:21:23,817 Speaker 2: he really could take that huge gamble. What gamble would 375 00:21:23,817 --> 00:21:26,257 Speaker 2: it be? That's silly? I mean, no one's going to 376 00:21:26,257 --> 00:21:28,177 Speaker 2: call him out on it. The judge certainly won't. He 377 00:21:28,257 --> 00:21:32,377 Speaker 2: really could go for an insurrection charge or conviction, then 378 00:21:32,417 --> 00:21:35,017 Speaker 2: giving the States justification to say, well, anyone who is 379 00:21:35,097 --> 00:21:39,737 Speaker 2: involved in an insurrection or rebellion cannot run for public office. 380 00:21:39,817 --> 00:21:43,697 Speaker 2: So he very well could do that depending on the 381 00:21:43,737 --> 00:21:47,737 Speaker 2: political climate, say you know, mid twenty twenty four. The 382 00:21:47,777 --> 00:21:50,457 Speaker 2: scary part for all of this is that there are 383 00:21:50,497 --> 00:21:54,577 Speaker 2: no boundaries for this Department of Justice, especially in Washington DC. 384 00:21:55,097 --> 00:21:56,377 Speaker 2: All of these judges. 385 00:21:56,937 --> 00:21:59,297 Speaker 1: Yeah, I me, juliue not to just this gets me 386 00:21:59,337 --> 00:22:03,977 Speaker 1: so fired up. I understand that under normal process, under 387 00:22:03,977 --> 00:22:06,297 Speaker 1: a legal system functioning the way that we're told it is, 388 00:22:06,697 --> 00:22:09,017 Speaker 1: the trials would be delayed a long time, a lot 389 00:22:09,017 --> 00:22:11,097 Speaker 1: of this would be thrown out on a heel, the 390 00:22:11,137 --> 00:22:14,177 Speaker 1: cases would be moved. But I just feel like, I mean, 391 00:22:14,177 --> 00:22:16,697 Speaker 1: they brought all four of these roughly to coincide with 392 00:22:16,697 --> 00:22:18,737 Speaker 1: each other and to be in the election year. Like 393 00:22:18,777 --> 00:22:20,497 Speaker 1: it's rigged, you know what I mean. I feel like 394 00:22:20,497 --> 00:22:22,857 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a rigged game. So that means it 395 00:22:22,977 --> 00:22:24,497 Speaker 1: changes the outcome. 396 00:22:26,057 --> 00:22:29,337 Speaker 2: Especially when you have Judge Tanya Chutkin, the Obama appointee, 397 00:22:29,377 --> 00:22:32,377 Speaker 2: telling Donald Trump's lawyers, I'm going to treat him like 398 00:22:32,497 --> 00:22:36,377 Speaker 2: any other defendant. He's not going to get any special protections. 399 00:22:36,457 --> 00:22:39,017 Speaker 2: Oh and by the way, if he violates the terms 400 00:22:39,017 --> 00:22:42,817 Speaker 2: of his release, including any allegations of tampering with witnesses, 401 00:22:42,817 --> 00:22:47,137 Speaker 2: which could include a truth social post about Mike Pence, 402 00:22:47,737 --> 00:22:52,217 Speaker 2: one of his Republican opponents in the primary, that she 403 00:22:52,257 --> 00:22:54,617 Speaker 2: could sweep him up, charge him with contempt, and put 404 00:22:54,657 --> 00:22:57,697 Speaker 2: him in jail on a contempt charge. So this is 405 00:22:57,737 --> 00:23:01,217 Speaker 2: what they're really waiting to do, at least in that case. 406 00:23:01,697 --> 00:23:04,177 Speaker 2: But the idea that Tany Chutkin, who suggested, as I 407 00:23:04,257 --> 00:23:08,297 Speaker 2: posted last week in a court hearing, that Donald Trump 408 00:23:08,377 --> 00:23:12,457 Speaker 2: should be behind bars and charged with January sixth, she 409 00:23:12,537 --> 00:23:15,217 Speaker 2: said that in twenty twenty two, the idea that now 410 00:23:15,217 --> 00:23:19,817 Speaker 2: she's going to be a fair, impartial, unbiased judge defending 411 00:23:19,977 --> 00:23:23,457 Speaker 2: which she's protecting the rights of a defendant, which is 412 00:23:23,537 --> 00:23:27,217 Speaker 2: part of her oath. It's just all the way absurd, 413 00:23:27,257 --> 00:23:29,937 Speaker 2: and the American people are waking up to see. I 414 00:23:30,017 --> 00:23:32,137 Speaker 2: hate to say it what I've been watching this DC 415 00:23:32,257 --> 00:23:35,577 Speaker 2: courthouse for two and a half years. It is really 416 00:23:35,657 --> 00:23:38,577 Speaker 2: just jaw dropping, stunning, and in many ways heartbreaking to 417 00:23:38,577 --> 00:23:40,377 Speaker 2: see this happening in our nation's captaint. 418 00:23:40,417 --> 00:23:43,937 Speaker 1: You think a president Trump, are you confident that he 419 00:23:44,017 --> 00:23:51,377 Speaker 1: would pardon all non violent J six prisoners inmates? 420 00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:55,297 Speaker 2: I hope so. I think he definitely should. I think 421 00:23:55,297 --> 00:23:58,057 Speaker 2: that there are even those convicted of assaulting and interfering 422 00:23:58,057 --> 00:24:01,737 Speaker 2: with police officers whose cases should be reconsidered too, because, 423 00:24:01,817 --> 00:24:04,377 Speaker 2: keep in mind, Buck, a lot of the evidence was 424 00:24:04,457 --> 00:24:08,057 Speaker 2: kept away from the jury in those cases. In those matters, people. 425 00:24:08,137 --> 00:24:09,977 Speaker 1: And if they've already served time and we all saw 426 00:24:10,057 --> 00:24:12,457 Speaker 1: all the BLM riots and all the assaults against officers 427 00:24:12,457 --> 00:24:16,337 Speaker 1: that occurred there. Nobody was getting three, four or five 428 00:24:16,417 --> 00:24:20,297 Speaker 1: years in federal prison for that, right, So yeah, no, their. 429 00:24:20,177 --> 00:24:23,217 Speaker 2: Charges were all dropped. They were dropped. And the same 430 00:24:23,257 --> 00:24:28,377 Speaker 2: DCUs attorney Matthew Graves who's rounding up trespassers and demanding 431 00:24:28,417 --> 00:24:33,857 Speaker 2: these exorbitant prison sentences, negotiating a settlement between BLM protesters 432 00:24:33,857 --> 00:24:36,897 Speaker 2: in DC and part police and Secret Service who they 433 00:24:36,977 --> 00:24:40,537 Speaker 2: had accused of using excessive force against protesters who were 434 00:24:40,577 --> 00:24:42,817 Speaker 2: burning things down and trying to scale defenses at the 435 00:24:42,817 --> 00:24:45,457 Speaker 2: White House to invade the White House, and that's why 436 00:24:45,497 --> 00:24:47,217 Speaker 2: Donald Trump and his family had to go in a bunker, 437 00:24:47,257 --> 00:24:50,337 Speaker 2: which of course everyone made fun of. So the disparity 438 00:24:50,417 --> 00:24:53,937 Speaker 2: there is something that Trump should definitely address, even for 439 00:24:54,017 --> 00:24:56,497 Speaker 2: those who were convicted of more violent offenses. 440 00:24:56,537 --> 00:25:02,497 Speaker 1: On January sixth, Julie Kelly as always appreciate your time. 441 00:25:02,577 --> 00:25:05,537 Speaker 1: Everyone should go subscribe to Julie's sub stack. It is 442 00:25:05,577 --> 00:25:09,137 Speaker 1: declassified with Julie Kelly talking again soon and Julie, thanks 443 00:25:09,137 --> 00:25:09,457 Speaker 1: so much 444 00:25:10,217 --> 00:25:12,217 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, butock really appreciate it.