WEBVTT - TechStuff Takes a Walk with Robots

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey therein

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Tech Stuff, I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the tech

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<v Speaker 1>are you? So? Last week, Tesla held an event called

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<v Speaker 1>we Robot, in which attendees got to see a new

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle that was dubbed the robo Van, although Elon Musk

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced it as reboven. There was a cyber cab that

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<v Speaker 1>must claims is going to cost less than thirty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars when it goes into production sometime before twenty twenty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>which would potentially allow the average person to run a

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<v Speaker 1>small uber or lift business out of their own garage

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<v Speaker 1>with the cybercab giving people rides. Though that raises a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of questions I have, like liability issues. Let's say

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<v Speaker 1>that your cybercab got into an act extent. Are you

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<v Speaker 1>held liable for that? Or is Tesla or I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a discussion for another time. But they also gave

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<v Speaker 1>a closer look at the humanoid Optimus robots, and they

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<v Speaker 1>had robots that were dancing and serving drinks and some

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<v Speaker 1>that even held conversations with attendees. Now, those robots had

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<v Speaker 1>some help. Tesla also did not hide this fact. This

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<v Speaker 1>is not like a gotcha because the company was very

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<v Speaker 1>forthright about this. Remote operators were augmenting the robot's abilities

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<v Speaker 1>while those robots were on the floor. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>those conversations were actually human beings who were using the

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<v Speaker 1>robots kind of like an advanced bipedal intercom system. But

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<v Speaker 1>it made me think about the long history of humans

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<v Speaker 1>trying to make humanoid robots. Now, in some ways this

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<v Speaker 1>pursuit is a bit strange because a legged, bipedal humanoid

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<v Speaker 1>robot brings with it a ton of challenges that you

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<v Speaker 1>could sidestep if you just made some compromises to your

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<v Speaker 1>design approach, like why does the robot need to be

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<v Speaker 1>bipedal and humanoid? If you decided the robot should move

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<v Speaker 1>around on wheels or tank treads, or maybe move around

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<v Speaker 1>on all fours, or maybe you make like a centaur

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<v Speaker 1>like robot where it has like a base with four

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<v Speaker 1>legs and then a torso with two arms and it

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<v Speaker 1>stands upright. You know, we make the rules like it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have to take any specific form factor, and you

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<v Speaker 1>could do that and get around a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>challenges you would face if you were to instead focus

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<v Speaker 1>on this humanoid bipedal approach. Creating a robot that can

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<v Speaker 1>move the way humans do is hard. It has taken

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<v Speaker 1>decades of research and development to accomplish that to a

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<v Speaker 1>reliable degree, and even then it's typically under very controlled circumstances.

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<v Speaker 1>When you start getting into stuff like uneven terrain, it

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<v Speaker 1>gets a lot trickier. Okay, In other ways, the desire

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<v Speaker 1>to build a human like robot is totally understandable. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>my first reaction to anyone talking about developing a humanoid

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<v Speaker 1>robot is why why are you doing that? What's your reasoning?

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<v Speaker 1>Because if you can accomplish the same goal using a

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<v Speaker 1>different method of locomotion, that might be the better choice. However,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want this robot to be able to do

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<v Speaker 1>tasks in our human world, like tasks that human beings

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<v Speaker 1>would typically carry out on their own, well, making the

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<v Speaker 1>robot human shaped makes more sense. You don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>adapt your environment to the abilities of the robot, right

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<v Speaker 1>because a set of stairs or a ladder would defeat

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<v Speaker 1>most wheeled robots. They would come to it and say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't navigate up this obstacle, and if my goal

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<v Speaker 1>is on the other end of that obstacle, that's a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>So to really maneuver within the human world, it helps

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<v Speaker 1>to have your typical human shape and typical human capabilities. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the flip side of this is that we humans, we

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<v Speaker 1>have an obligation to make spaces accessible for those who

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<v Speaker 1>have an atypical shape or atypical capabilities. We need to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that people who don't have the use of say,

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<v Speaker 1>their legs, can still access really important stuff. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>responsibility we have, but that's a topic for another episode. Plus,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there is something inherent within us, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least inherent within some of us, some human beings, and

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<v Speaker 1>it drives us to want to create companions that look

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<v Speaker 1>and to an extent behave the way we do. So

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<v Speaker 1>much of science fiction is based around variations of this idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Arguably Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is kind of along this track

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<v Speaker 1>of thinking. You know, you have you your crazy scientists

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<v Speaker 1>who desires to play god, and then you have General

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<v Speaker 1>Capex's influential work, Rossum's Universal Robots. That's the work where

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<v Speaker 1>we get the term robot in the first place, or

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<v Speaker 1>the replicants in Blade Runner, which actually pretty closely resemble

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<v Speaker 1>the robots in capex work, to the works of Isaac

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<v Speaker 1>Asimov and beyond. So in many of these pieces there's

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<v Speaker 1>a warning that is given that the pursuit to build

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<v Speaker 1>and exploit robots often comes tinged with arrogance and hubris,

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<v Speaker 1>and it rarely works out well for anybody by the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the story. Now, not all of those robots

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<v Speaker 1>were mechanical or electro mechanical or digital creatures. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>like Frankenstein's Monster, the robots in Capex's work and the

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<v Speaker 1>replicants in Blade Runner are all synthetic life forms. They're

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<v Speaker 1>not masses of wires and circuit boards. Asimov's work introduced

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<v Speaker 1>more mechanical and electro mechanical creatures with artificial brains. But ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>all the stories involve creatures and creations that gain an

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<v Speaker 1>awareness of themselves and their place in the world, and

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<v Speaker 1>how they reject the hand that has been dealt to them,

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<v Speaker 1>often to dramatic and catastrophic degrees. Now, what the future

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<v Speaker 1>holds as far as humanoid robots go has yet to

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<v Speaker 1>be written, though we can certainly look back and talk

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<v Speaker 1>about some of the history in the field of humanoid

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<v Speaker 1>robots that have happened so far. Before robots, we have

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<v Speaker 1>examples of automata that mimiced human movement and capabilities. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of these were actual clockwork creations, such as the Karakuri.

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<v Speaker 1>These are puppets from Japan, dating as far back as

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<v Speaker 1>the seventeenth century, so the sixteen hundreds. These used mechanisms

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<v Speaker 1>to power certain movements, usually repeatable movements like serving tea

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<v Speaker 1>or playing musical instrument. Some of the early automata weren't

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<v Speaker 1>automata at all. They were hoaxes. The famed mechanical Turk

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<v Speaker 1>creation of Wolfgang von Kemplan is such an example. Kempland

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<v Speaker 1>actually stowed a human operator inside a cabinet that was

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<v Speaker 1>attached to this supposed automaton that had been designed to

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<v Speaker 1>play chess. In reality, it was the human operator hidden

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<v Speaker 1>inside the cabinet that was controlling everything. It was really

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<v Speaker 1>just a puppet, not an automaton. But these creations, whether

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<v Speaker 1>actual automata or not, were limited in function, and typically

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't bipedal either, not truly like they weren't moving

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<v Speaker 1>around on two legs. They might be stationary in the

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<v Speaker 1>case of the mechanical turk, or they might have wheels

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<v Speaker 1>and they have like robes that cover up the wheels,

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<v Speaker 1>so it looks like they're kind of gliding across, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're not actually walking. And I also have to include

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<v Speaker 1>one story I came across because it's just too absurd

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<v Speaker 1>to leave out. So in eighteen forty eight. In May

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<v Speaker 1>of eighteen forty eight, a couple of different journals, one

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<v Speaker 1>of them being Scientific American, published an account of a

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<v Speaker 1>supposed encounter with a remarkable automaton that was capable of

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<v Speaker 1>standing up, sitting down, and even of speaking. The automaton

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<v Speaker 1>itself was apparently almost indistinguishable from a human being. The

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<v Speaker 1>account was said to have originally published in quote an

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<v Speaker 1>Augsburg Gazette end quote. So Augsburg is a city in

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<v Speaker 1>Bavaria in Germany, and so the original article was supposedly

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<v Speaker 1>written in German and then translated into English to be

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<v Speaker 1>published in various periodicals in the United States and elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>The automaton's name was mister Eisenbrass, which is great, but

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<v Speaker 1>the name of the inventor was doctor Lube, which, y'all,

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<v Speaker 1>that's like a gift from the gods of comedy right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Eisenbrass and Doctor Lube. I maintain that someone should

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<v Speaker 1>make a stage production that has the title mister Eisenbrass

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<v Speaker 1>and Doctor Lube, and it might well be me unless

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<v Speaker 1>someone beats me to it. And someone probably will beat

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<v Speaker 1>me to it, because I'm infamous for coming up with

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<v Speaker 1>ideas for shows or novels or whatever and then just

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<v Speaker 1>sitting on them. But my goodness, mister Eisenbrass and Doctor Lube.

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's a title, y'all. Anyway, according to this article,

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<v Speaker 1>the author and some other visitors went to the lab

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<v Speaker 1>of doctor Lube, which I imagine was down a slippery slope. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>The doctor was quote seated at a sort of cabinet

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<v Speaker 1>having a keyboard somewhat similar to that of a piano

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<v Speaker 1>forte arranged on one side of it, and nearly in

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<v Speaker 1>the center of a room sat a fashionably dressed gentleman

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<v Speaker 1>who rose and bowed as we entered endo quote. And then,

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<v Speaker 1>according to the article, the visitors engaged in some small

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<v Speaker 1>talk with this fashionably dressed gentleman, and the gentleman actually

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<v Speaker 1>took a seat after the visitors had sat down, and

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<v Speaker 1>eventually the doctor stops playing at his keyboard, and mister

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<v Speaker 1>Eisenbrass goes quiet, and Lube explains that the whole thing

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<v Speaker 1>is a mechanical contraption. Only then do the visitors notice

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<v Speaker 1>the cables going from the keyboard console to the chair

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<v Speaker 1>of mister Eisenbrass. Now, according to the piece, Lube procured

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<v Speaker 1>bones from a human being, presumably a dead one, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a big ol' ick already, but then use rubber

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<v Speaker 1>tubes to kind of serve as musculature, and that he

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<v Speaker 1>also created quote a perfect system of nerves made of

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<v Speaker 1>fine platinum wire and covered with silk end Quote to

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<v Speaker 1>what end, you might say, what what are the nerves for?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess the idea is that electric motors would pull

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<v Speaker 1>upon the rubber tubes. It does explain that there were

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<v Speaker 1>electro magnets that were in use in this system, and

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<v Speaker 1>that the tubes just served as muscles that when you

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<v Speaker 1>pulled on them, would cause the contraction you would associate

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<v Speaker 1>with a human body. I actually at first assumed, since

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<v Speaker 1>they were talking about rubber tubes, that this was going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a pneumatic system where you would use air

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<v Speaker 1>to achieve similar results. Right, you pump air into something

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<v Speaker 1>to extend a limb, and you would allow air to

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<v Speaker 1>escape to contract the limb. But that apparently is not

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<v Speaker 1>how this was supposed to work. Supposedly, the keyboard allowed

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<v Speaker 1>the doctor to produce incredible results just by pressing a

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<v Speaker 1>few keys, like I guess there was a key that

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<v Speaker 1>was just labeled small talk or something, and that the

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<v Speaker 1>figure was apparently capable of quote walking, talking, singing, playing

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<v Speaker 1>the piano, and doing many other things with as much

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<v Speaker 1>ease and precision as an accomplished man. End quote. The

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<v Speaker 1>author then proactively chides the reader for undoubtedly asking so

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<v Speaker 1>what good is on this? And then the author goes

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<v Speaker 1>on to talk about how mechanical servants will replace all

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<v Speaker 1>those undependable lauts and scally wags who currently act as servants,

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<v Speaker 1>and thus give the women of the household the freedom

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<v Speaker 1>to carry out their feminine duties as caretaker of the

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<v Speaker 1>home just by tickling some ivories. Yeah, this article is

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<v Speaker 1>well and truly both sexist and classist. Anyway, to say

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<v Speaker 1>that I am skeptical about this account is putting it lightly.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel fairly certain that no such demonstration ever actually

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<v Speaker 1>took place, or if there were some kind of demonstration,

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<v Speaker 1>it did not unfold as described in this article. I

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<v Speaker 1>did try to find the original article written in German.

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<v Speaker 1>I assumed that the German gazette that was referenced in

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<v Speaker 1>the English piece must have been the Algemina Zeitung that

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<v Speaker 1>was published in Augsburg, Germany for most of the nineteenth century,

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<v Speaker 1>and was like the main paper not just of Augsburg,

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<v Speaker 1>but like of that region of Germany. However, I found

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<v Speaker 1>no record of Eisenbrass or doctor Lube anyway. As diverting

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<v Speaker 1>as mister Eisenbrass and doctor Lube are, I feel confident

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<v Speaker 1>in saying that the capability of building a robot that

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<v Speaker 1>could maintain its balance standing still, let alone walking around

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<v Speaker 1>all without other means of support, was likely well outside

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<v Speaker 1>the reach of even the most clever of innovators in

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<v Speaker 1>the mid eighteen hundreds. That seems like that's just a

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<v Speaker 1>no brainer. When it comes to creating a two legged robot,

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<v Speaker 1>one where most of the mass is actually above the

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<v Speaker 1>legs of the robot, not contained within the legs, things

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<v Speaker 1>get really tricky because a lot of physics have to

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<v Speaker 1>be considered before engineers could get serious about bipedal robots.

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<v Speaker 1>If we relied solely on trial and error and just

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<v Speaker 1>figured we're going to get this right, we'd likely not

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<v Speaker 1>be anywhere as far along as we are right now.

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<v Speaker 1>So when we come back, we're going to consider how

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<v Speaker 1>challenging it is to create something that walks around on

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<v Speaker 1>two legs. But before we get to that, and I

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<v Speaker 1>get a little unbalanced, let's take a quick break to

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<v Speaker 1>thank our sponsors. All right, So what's the big deal

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<v Speaker 1>with walking around on two legs? Lots of people do

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<v Speaker 1>it all the time. You know, toddlers can get the

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<v Speaker 1>hang of it without too much trouble, and we celebrate

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<v Speaker 1>it when it happens like that's a big deal, But

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<v Speaker 1>then shortly after that it's It really becomes just a

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<v Speaker 1>source of stress as the toddlers toddle along toward one

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 1>danger or another. But you're entirely dependent upon just two

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 1>points of contact with your surrounding environment. If you're talking

0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>about a true bipedal form that is capable of moving

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 1>around round the area, and those two points of contact

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 1>with the environment are essentially the bottoms of the foot seats. That's,

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>of course, if everything is actually going as you wanted

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 1>it to. If things have gone poorly, you might actually

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 1>have lots of different points of contact with the ground.

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 1>But that's because you went horizontal after something went wrong.

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 1>So you've got your robot. It's got two legs, the

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>two points of contact with the ground or the bottom

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 1>of the feet likely the legs and the feet, and

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 1>your robot in general has a number of degrees of freedom.

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.120
<v Speaker 1>So degrees of freedom are joints that allow movement along

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>at least one axis. The point of contact with the

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>ground could actually be considered a passive degree of freedom

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>in itself. And you're also relying on friction to allow

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>your robot to stand up, to maintain balance, and to

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 1>get anywhere. If the robot's feet were frictionless, then it

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be able to stay up right at all, let

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.160
<v Speaker 1>alone walk. And you've got all this weight above the

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 1>legs that you have to worry about. So have you

0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 1>ever balanced something like, say, a baseball bat, on the

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>palm of your hand. If you do that with a

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 1>baseball bat and you're using the narrow part the handle

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>in of the words of the bat and you're balancing

0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that on your palm and the thick part of the

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.760
<v Speaker 1>bat is up in the air, you know that little

0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>motions can create big results. Right A small movement at

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 1>the base can cause the top to really sway, and

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 1>that requires you to make larger corrections down at the

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>base in order to keep everything in balance. Well, that's

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of what it's like to try and figure out

0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 1>how to make a bipedal robot walk while maintaining its balance.

0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>You've got a inertia to deal with, and that really

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>affects balance. How do you make sure the mass above

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 1>the legs doesn't throw everything off kilter whenever it starts

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 1>moving or when it stops moving. How do you correct

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>for that so that your robot doesn't just tumble over?

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 1>How do you keep your bot upright? One early discussion

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.359
<v Speaker 1>that became a core component in the pursuit of bipedal

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>robots revolved around a concept that came to be known

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.920
<v Speaker 1>as the zero moment point or ZMP. So a pair

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 1>of smarty pants is from Russia named Beyomir Vukabratovich and

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:21.679
<v Speaker 1>Davor Jurichic first described this back in the nineteen sixties. Now,

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 1>the actual term zero moment point would be coined a

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 1>little bit later, but it was used to describe what

0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 1>they were talking about, and the whole concept revolves around

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 1>a moment in which the net reaction forces between a

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:41.719
<v Speaker 1>bipedal mechanism's feet and the ground are essentially zero and

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 1>there's no movement along the horizontal plane. So that means,

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 1>like forward momentum and gravity they've kind of canceled each

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.680
<v Speaker 1>other out. You've hit this zero moment where you don't

0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.920
<v Speaker 1>have to worry about the robot tipping forward and falling over.

0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 1>It is you could think of as a moment of stability,

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 1>and the robot, assuming no external forces are acting upon it,

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:09.879
<v Speaker 1>will remain upright, assuming that ZMP is maintained. Now, this

0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.640
<v Speaker 1>discussion really drives home how stability can be a huge challenge.

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.919
<v Speaker 1>As robots move, they must deal with inertia and you

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 1>have to know the math to achieve dynamic stability if

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 1>your robot is to remain upright, whether it's walking, running, jumping,

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. And in fact, it gets increasingly more difficult

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.919
<v Speaker 1>as you go down those tasks. Walking is hard, running

0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 1>is really hard, and jumping is really really hard. Like

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 1>the jump part might be easy, the landing and staying

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>upright that's the hard part. Otherwise your robot's gonna topple over.

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.199
<v Speaker 1>And while watching a robot take a tumble might be

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.879
<v Speaker 1>a great YouTube video. In practice, in the real world,

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 1>you obviously don't want your robots to be falling over.

0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.199
<v Speaker 1>You want your robots to be stable and capable of

0:18:55.240 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 1>moving around environments without causing damage or potentially injury to people,

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.879
<v Speaker 1>to be able to maneuver. It's tough and robots are expensive.

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You don't want them falling over. Then you're thinking, well,

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.520
<v Speaker 1>that's twenty thousand dollars to get this thing back on

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.680
<v Speaker 1>its feet. Again, that's not a great way to reach

0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 1>progress either. So to plan the motion for a robot,

0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.399
<v Speaker 1>you need to be able to calculate the zero moment

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.920
<v Speaker 1>point or ZMP. You need to figure out which joints

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 1>the robot is going to have to engage in order

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 1>to achieve stability under its various operating conditions, and those

0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 1>conditions could include things outside of your strict control. It's

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>one thing to calculate how the robot can achieve stability

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 1>when it's walking across a level floor that has a

0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.240
<v Speaker 1>firm surface, But what about a floor that surface isn't

0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 1>as firm. Maybe it's a little squishy, you know, maybe

0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 1>it's a nineteen seventies shag carpet or something, or what

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 1>if the floor isn't level, what if the terrain is

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 1>actually uneven, you know, kind of like a typical sidewalk

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.960
<v Speaker 1>in the city of Atlanta. How does a robot compensate

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 1>for all this, remain stable and keep itself from pitching over?

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 1>This is a non trivial challenge, and it takes a

0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of work to get to a point where robots

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 1>are sophisticated enough to achieve stability. Engineers have had to

0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.800
<v Speaker 1>take a lot into consideration. Would more degrees of freedom

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 1>help or does that actually overcomplicate matters? I mean, there's

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.480
<v Speaker 1>no reason why we should be constrained to the same

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 1>degrees of freedom that a person has. Right Like, we

0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.919
<v Speaker 1>could think, oh, let's mimic the way humans work and

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 1>make sure that the ankles and the knees and the

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 1>hips all have the same points of articulation. Or we

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 1>could say, well, there's no reason why we couldn't have

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 1>more or fewer joints if it makes the operations work better.

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's something to think about, you know. And then

0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.360
<v Speaker 1>walking would require shifting stability so that the robots can

0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>maintain itself with just one foot in contact with the ground,

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>right like, suddenly points of contact have halved. If you're running,

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.640
<v Speaker 1>it's even harder because with running, at least the definition

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.520
<v Speaker 1>of running that roboticists use, there's a moment that may

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 1>only last just for a split second, but there's a

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 1>moment in which both of the robots feet are not

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.480
<v Speaker 1>touching the ground. So how do you achieve stability when

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:25.160
<v Speaker 1>your point of contact is continually interrupted? Jumping is even harder, right,

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.879
<v Speaker 1>because you're really leaving the ground then, and how do

0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.120
<v Speaker 1>you ensure that landing you do so in a way

0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.640
<v Speaker 1>that you maintain stability. So that ZMP was a huge deal.

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.919
<v Speaker 1>It still is a huge deal. Not all robot locomotion

0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 1>is centered around ZMP calculations, by the way, but a

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 1>lot of it still is. So a lot of the

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>work in bipedal robots, particularly in the seventies and eighties,

0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 1>involved calculating ZMP and keeping the robot within that zone

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 1>while engineering movements. So calculating ZMP is one thing. Building

0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.400
<v Speaker 1>a robot that can balance is another. Even building robot

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.400
<v Speaker 1>that's capable of static stability is no simple task. Static

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.919
<v Speaker 1>stability just means the robot is able to stand still

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.680
<v Speaker 1>and not fall over, and believe it or not, that's

0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 1>easier said than done. In nineteen seventy four, labs at

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>the School of Science and Engineering at Waseda University in

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Japan started a project with the goal of building a

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:26.960
<v Speaker 1>stable bipedal robot. This project became known as Weibot wabot

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:32.120
<v Speaker 1>that stands for Waseda Robot. The labs created a new

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 1>focus group within the laboratory system at the university. It's

0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:40.680
<v Speaker 1>called the Bioengineering Group, and their first effort, the Waybot one,

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:45.280
<v Speaker 1>wasn't exactly something that you would mistake as a human being.

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.400
<v Speaker 1>It was not like a smooth humanoid robot. You would

0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:50.960
<v Speaker 1>never look at it and think it was anything other

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.439
<v Speaker 1>than a robot. In fact, it looked kind of like

0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 1>a giant erector set. It was very much a big, blocky,

0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 1>metallic humanoid robot. So it had a limb control system,

0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:05.160
<v Speaker 1>obviously very important if you're going to have a walking robot.

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.199
<v Speaker 1>It also had a primitive vision system. It even was

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.479
<v Speaker 1>able to converse in Japanese to a certain degree. They

0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.159
<v Speaker 1>said that it had the in electrical capacity of like

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.240
<v Speaker 1>a one and a half year old Keep in mind

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.840
<v Speaker 1>this is the early nineteen seventies. It was tethered to

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.959
<v Speaker 1>computer systems and power systems. There was not yet a

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.440
<v Speaker 1>point where we had reached a miniaturization where you could

0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 1>have all that computing power, not to mention electrical power

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.440
<v Speaker 1>on board the robot itself. If you had done that,

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.320
<v Speaker 1>the robot would either need to be huge or would

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>be carrying the biggest backpack you've ever seen in order

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 1>to have all the computational and electrical power necessary to

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>operate this thing. So, yeah, it was tethered. The Waybot

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 1>was the first humanoid robot to achieve static stability, and

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:54.200
<v Speaker 1>later it would be the first digitally controlled anthropomorphic robot

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:59.440
<v Speaker 1>at all that was able to achieve dynamic stability, and

0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.160
<v Speaker 1>statically stable means that the robot can remain balanced while

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.240
<v Speaker 1>standing still. Dynamically balanced refers to robots that are maintaining

0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 1>that stability while they are still in motion. Going from

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 1>one to the other and back again is actually really hard.

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Like achieving one is hard, achieving the other one is

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:21.120
<v Speaker 1>also hard. Going back and forth between still and moving

0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:25.640
<v Speaker 1>and maintaining balance is even harder. You know, remaining dynamically

0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:31.640
<v Speaker 1>stable is often easier than going from dynamic to static,

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.720
<v Speaker 1>assuming that you know motions are smooth, and fast enough

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.679
<v Speaker 1>to counter the forces acting on the robot, because when

0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>you think about it, walking is really a series of falls.

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.679
<v Speaker 1>It's like you're falling and you're catching yourself over and

0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 1>over again. You move forward when you walk, not just

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 1>by moving your legs. You know, you kind of lean

0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.119
<v Speaker 1>forward into the walk as well, and for a moment

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>it's as if you're falling forward and that you would

0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 1>face plant into the ground ahead of you. But of

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:03.800
<v Speaker 1>course you've moved your leg to catch yourself, and this

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:08.919
<v Speaker 1>process repeats, so you're propelling yourself forward by constantly almost

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 1>falling but catching yourself over and over and over again.

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Now we do this without really thinking about it, like

0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.199
<v Speaker 1>once we learn how to walk, we don't have to

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 1>focus on this. This is this is just how we

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 1>do it. Robots, however, have to calculate this stuff in

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.400
<v Speaker 1>order to do it properly, in order to catch themselves

0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>with just the right amount of force to keep things

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:30.480
<v Speaker 1>moving and not to use too much or too little

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:34.520
<v Speaker 1>force and then risk taking a fall. Tons of work

0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 1>in robotics continued around the world towards this goal of

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 1>creating bipedal humanoid robots, but nearly all the articles I

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.240
<v Speaker 1>read for this episode. Make a big jump from the

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies to the mid nineteen nineties. That's when Honda

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 1>unveiled a robot that they called the humanoid P two.

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.760
<v Speaker 1>So Honda had actually been developing humanoid robots for about

0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>a decade before showing off the P two. A series

0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 1>that was kind of the in secret R and D

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>works that was called the E series of robots, and

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 1>this was in the nineteen eighties. These E robots were primitive,

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:15.200
<v Speaker 1>but they demonstrate the capability to walk on level ground

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 1>under very controlled circumstances. The first E robot, for example,

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.119
<v Speaker 1>was able to walk at an extremely deliberate pace because

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 1>it was said that each step took about five seconds

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:31.400
<v Speaker 1>to complete. I challenge you to try walking that way,

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:33.560
<v Speaker 1>even if it's just a couple of feet, count to

0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 1>five slowly per step. That is slow, but it illustrates

0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 1>how challenging it was to design a robot capable of

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>walking in a biped away. Now, the first E series

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.520
<v Speaker 1>robot was built in nineteen eighty six. It essentially looked

0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 1>like a pair of legs attached to robotic hips and

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 1>that's it like. It didn't have any top half. There

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.679
<v Speaker 1>was no torso or arms or anything like that. The

0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:00.520
<v Speaker 1>B two wouldn't debut until nineteen ninety six. Honda had

0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 1>a decade of work developing humanoid robotics before they revealed

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to the public what they had been up to. And

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.359
<v Speaker 1>like I said, E zero, not very humanoid. It is

0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:17.120
<v Speaker 1>like a free, free walking pelvis, robotic pelvis. The later

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:20.240
<v Speaker 1>robots in the E series started to look I don't know,

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:22.479
<v Speaker 1>in my opinion, even more strange, Like one of them

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:25.400
<v Speaker 1>looks kind of like a microwave oven that has legs.

0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 1>One of them looks sort of like the front end

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 1>of a fancy car, like a Rolls Royce, but with legs.

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 1>You would never call any of them human in shape,

0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 1>but they were gradually evolving toward that. The P two

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:43.679
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety six looked much more human in that

0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 1>it had legs, and it had arms and a torso

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:51.440
<v Speaker 1>and a head. Now this head was rectangular, and it

0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 1>was it was wider than it was tall. It was

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:57.600
<v Speaker 1>not human looking at all, but it demonstrated that Honda

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:01.080
<v Speaker 1>had been hard at work tackling this BikeE Hetle challenge,

0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and it would serve as a foundation for a much

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.280
<v Speaker 1>more famous Honda robot just a few years later, a

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>robot that would debut in two thousand. It was called Asmo.

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Now I have a fun connection with Asimo, and I

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 1>will talk about that, but first let's take another quick break.

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:32.680
<v Speaker 1>All right, So the year was two thousand and seven.

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Asimo had been a thing for the better part of

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.120
<v Speaker 1>the two thousands, like it debuted in early two thousand

0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 1>and now it's two thousand and seven. I had just

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:45.719
<v Speaker 1>been hired by a company called HowStuffWorks dot com, and

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 1>one of my first assignments was to rewrite and to

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 1>update the article on how Asimo works. So I researched

0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 1>the project, including the lofty goal that the engineers had

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 1>set to have a robot that couldn't just walk but

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 1>could also run. So it would be a robot that,

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 1>at little points would have both feet leave the ground

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 1>just for a moment, but still be able to maintain

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 1>its balance. Now that was a huge accomplishment. Even if

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>you were to watch videos and it kind of looks

0:29:15.960 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 1>like Asmo's doing a little hopping dance you might do

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 1>if you were in need of getting to a restroom,

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Like I think of it as oh, it's doing the

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:26.600
<v Speaker 1>peepee dance. But you know, watch Asmo running. It's cute,

0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 1>it's weird, it has this odd sort of tone to it,

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 1>I would say, But it was phenomenal because yes, for

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 1>a split second, both feet are off the ground, and

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>yet when the opposite foot makes contact with the floor,

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the robot would maintain its balance and be able to

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:49.360
<v Speaker 1>continue running. Asimo looks a lot more human than P

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:51.920
<v Speaker 1>two did. In fact, it looks like sort of a

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 1>diminutive astronaut in a spacesuit. I actually got to meet

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Asimo once when I was at Disneyland in California, because

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.880
<v Speaker 1>there was demonstration of Asimo that was a real blast.

0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I watched this presentation that they gave, and then I

0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>mentioned to a cast member that I had written an

0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 1>article about how Asima worked, and they brought me aside

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:11.760
<v Speaker 1>and I got to meet the robot, which was a

0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:14.960
<v Speaker 1>really fun moment for me. That was kind of cool. Anyway,

0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Asimo would go on to establish a lot of firsts

0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:22.959
<v Speaker 1>in the bipedal humanoid robot space. Not only was it

0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 1>the first one to run, it could also climb and

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 1>descend stairs, at least eventually it could. One early demonstration

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't go so well, and Asimo tripped, but it later

0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:38.480
<v Speaker 1>demonstrated those capabilities, and these were things that would be

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 1>built upon in future robotic projects, both at Honda and elsewhere.

0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:47.240
<v Speaker 1>I should also mention that Asimo was largely a programmed robot,

0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 1>in that it would maneuver around and interact with an

0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:53.200
<v Speaker 1>environment that had been carefully mapped out for the robot.

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:57.160
<v Speaker 1>So it's not like it was spontaneous. It wasn't coming

0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.360
<v Speaker 1>into a brand new environment finding its way or around

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 1>picking things up that kind of stuff. It was following

0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:06.920
<v Speaker 1>a very specific set of instructions and it knew where

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.400
<v Speaker 1>everything was supposed to be and where it was supposed

0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to go. So it was not like an autonomous robot.

0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:17.120
<v Speaker 1>But that really wasn't what the project was about. It

0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't about autonomy. It was about robotic locomotion and interacting

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.040
<v Speaker 1>in human spaces. So you have to keep in mind

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that this whole approach to robotics is multidisciplinary in nature.

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:36.600
<v Speaker 1>It requires lots of different work in varying fields, some

0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 1>of which aren't even in technology. I'll talk more about

0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:44.320
<v Speaker 1>that later. In twenty fifteen, the Defense Advanced Research Projects

0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Agency here in the United States aka DARPA held a

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 1>robotics challenge. So DARPA is known for contracting with various

0:31:53.200 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 1>companies and research facilities to develop bleeding edge technologies potentially

0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:01.080
<v Speaker 1>useful for the purposes of national defense. They're not always

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 1>couched in those specific terms, but that's the directive of DARPA.

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>DARPA has played a part in everything from the development

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 1>of the Internet to the early days of driverlest car technology.

0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Well in twenty fifteen, they had a lofty goal set

0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 1>for robotics teams and it was all inspired by a

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>terrible disaster. So in twenty eleven, an earthquake and tsunami

0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 1>damaged the Fukushima Daichi Nuclear Power Plant in Japan. The

0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 1>power plants backup systems were damaged, and this led to

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>a situation in which the plant's reactors began to overheat

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>because there was no power that could be used to

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>operate the cooling system in order to keep everything under control,

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and ultimately this overheating led to a containment failure and

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>radioactive material was released into the environment. It was the

0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 1>worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. Cleaning up after the disaster

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.480
<v Speaker 1>was a really dangerous job. Response workers would be subjected

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.640
<v Speaker 1>to potentially dangerous levels of radiation or extended periods of time.

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.160
<v Speaker 1>DARPA's challenge was to give robotics teams a set of

0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 1>tasks that a robot would have to complete with minimal

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 1>direction and intervention from the teams. The idea being let's

0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 1>work toward a technological solution where we could develop robots

0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>that could step in into situations that were like Fukushima

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.479
<v Speaker 1>and take the place of humans so that human beings

0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 1>don't put their lives at risk to do this kind

0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:28.680
<v Speaker 1>of stuff. The robots, since they have no lives, they

0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 1>could go and do it and we wouldn't be putting

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:34.120
<v Speaker 1>any human life in jeopardy. That was the concept. But

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:36.320
<v Speaker 1>to do this, these robots would have to do very

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 1>human like things, and they have to maneuver in a

0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 1>very human like world because it was designed by humans, right,

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:47.000
<v Speaker 1>so no big surprise there. So the robots would have

0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to do stuff like get in, to get out of

0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:53.200
<v Speaker 1>and operate a vehicle, to be able to open doors

0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 1>and step through doorways, to pick up a tool and

0:33:56.640 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 1>to use it properly. And teams were given some but

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 1>not all, the information that they would actually need in

0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 1>order to complete the various tasks that DARPA had laid out,

0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and the reason why they weren't given everything is because

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the whole concept requires teams to build a robot that

0:34:12.960 --> 0:34:16.319
<v Speaker 1>could accomplish goals in a world that is unpredictable and

0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:19.600
<v Speaker 1>uncontrolled for the most part. In a real emergency, there

0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:22.560
<v Speaker 1>may be no way to account for all the variables,

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:25.879
<v Speaker 1>and depending on the nature of the emergency, a team

0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 1>might not be able to maintain a direct connection with

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.439
<v Speaker 1>their robot, so the robot would need to be able

0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 1>to handle some of this autonomously. Now, most of the

0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:38.000
<v Speaker 1>challenges were pretty darn straightforward, and they would have been

0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 1>trivial for most people to be able to complete if

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.279
<v Speaker 1>they were given the assignment. You know, if you ask

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:46.640
<v Speaker 1>your typical human to get into a vehicle kind of

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 1>like a golf cart and to drive to a specific location,

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:52.479
<v Speaker 1>to then get out of that vehicle, to open a door,

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 1>go through the door, pick up a power drill, drill

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a hole in a wall, climb some stairs, and navigate

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:01.960
<v Speaker 1>some rubble, and you'd likely see a lot of people

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 1>succeed at this. It's again a pretty simple set of

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:08.120
<v Speaker 1>tasks for most people, that's not a tough gig, but

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:11.879
<v Speaker 1>for robots, it's a totally different story. Now. There are

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:15.160
<v Speaker 1>compilations of videos of the various teams participating in this

0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:18.719
<v Speaker 1>competition that show just how challenging it really was. There

0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:21.719
<v Speaker 1>are videos of robots that, upon trying to just walk

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:27.000
<v Speaker 1>through a doorway, fall over. One robot completed the list

0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:31.440
<v Speaker 1>of tasks, turned wave to the crowd, then fell over

0:35:31.800 --> 0:35:35.440
<v Speaker 1>because that balance thing is really hard, y'all. Creating humanoid

0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 1>robots that can interact with the technology that was made

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:42.160
<v Speaker 1>for human beings requires a ton of consideration and cross

0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 1>disciplinary work. For one thing, sometimes it requires roboticists to ask, hey,

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>why did we make this thing work in this specific way.

0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:55.279
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like you have to go through reverse engineering

0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the world around you in order to understand why things

0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:00.560
<v Speaker 1>are the way they are. That doesn't always end with

0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>an answer that makes much sense. By the way, sometimes

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 1>we're like, wow, we should really change this because this

0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 1>is not the best way to do it, but at

0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.799
<v Speaker 1>that point it's the established way to do it. Ultimately,

0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:13.680
<v Speaker 1>a team from the Republic of Korea won this competition.

0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 1>The winning robot was named DRC dash Qubo Hubo. It

0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:23.720
<v Speaker 1>completed the series of tasks in just under forty five minutes,

0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:28.919
<v Speaker 1>and the team took home a two million dollar cash prize. Now, no, lie,

0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.600
<v Speaker 1>two million dollars, that's a lot of money, But I

0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:35.200
<v Speaker 1>would be willing to bet that the two million dollars

0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:38.600
<v Speaker 1>doesn't remotely cover the costs of all the research, development,

0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.160
<v Speaker 1>and production of the robot itself. I bet if you

0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:44.560
<v Speaker 1>were to add up all the expenses of making this robot,

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 1>it would be more than two million dollars. But the

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:51.359
<v Speaker 1>money wasn't really the full goal of this thing. Like

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 1>that was an award, but you weren't doing it to

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:56.879
<v Speaker 1>win the money. It's this challenge trying to figure out

0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 1>a way to achieve this really tough goal set out

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.879
<v Speaker 1>by the nature of the challenge itself. That's the real

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.880
<v Speaker 1>call the engineers out there, know what I'm talking about.

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Like that thrill of tackling a problem and figuring out

0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:13.839
<v Speaker 1>a solution. That's really what drives a lot of engineers. Now,

0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.400
<v Speaker 1>if anything, the challenge illustrated just how hard it is

0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:20.480
<v Speaker 1>to build a humanoid robot that can function properly. Now,

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 1>the benefits are pretty clear. You know, this kind of

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.840
<v Speaker 1>robot could potentially step in during situations like the Fukushima

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.520
<v Speaker 1>disaster scenarios in which a human would be put into

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>danger and the robot, due to its design, could interface

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:35.840
<v Speaker 1>with systems that had been built for humans. That's understandably

0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:39.040
<v Speaker 1>a worthy goal. It's just a very challenging one. And

0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:42.560
<v Speaker 1>it gets harder when we start to bring artificial intelligence

0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>into this because we've been mostly focused on things like locomotion.

0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.800
<v Speaker 1>But let's talk about AI. Now. I've told this story before,

0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 1>but I went to a panel and about robotics. It

0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 1>was at south By Southwest. This was several years ago,

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.600
<v Speaker 1>and at that panel, the presenters were talking about how

0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.360
<v Speaker 1>challenging it is to teach robots how to do things,

0:38:01.600 --> 0:38:04.560
<v Speaker 1>like not program the robots to do it, but to

0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:07.399
<v Speaker 1>teach them how to learn in an environment and then

0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:10.640
<v Speaker 1>replicate things that they have learned. Like even when you

0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 1>build models in which the robots are able to observe

0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:17.280
<v Speaker 1>and then attempt to replicate actions, stuff can go wrong.

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Robots have the same limitations as other examples of machine learning. So,

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:25.600
<v Speaker 1>for example, I have often used an example saying, like

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.120
<v Speaker 1>teaching a computer to do something like recognize that an

0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:32.080
<v Speaker 1>image represents a specific object like a coffee mug is hard.

0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Not all coffee mugs are alike, right, Some come in

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 1>different sizes or shapes or colors. Some might have handles.

0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Those handles could be shaped one way versus another, some

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 1>might be you know, the pictures of them might be

0:38:45.160 --> 0:38:48.320
<v Speaker 1>in under different lighting conditions, or they might be paired

0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:51.800
<v Speaker 1>with other stuff that's of a similar size or shape

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:55.520
<v Speaker 1>to the coffee mug. All of these elements represent challenging

0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:59.880
<v Speaker 1>variables to machines that are being trained to recognize images.

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:03.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, the machines do not inherently understand what makes

0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 1>a coffee mug a coffee mug. That's what you are

0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:08.480
<v Speaker 1>teaching them. And you know, you can teach a human

0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:11.040
<v Speaker 1>being what a coffee mug is and they pretty much

0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:13.040
<v Speaker 1>get it pretty darn quickly, even to the point where

0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:16.719
<v Speaker 1>they can recognize other coffee mugs that don't look exactly

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 1>like the initial one. But for computers it requires a

0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:22.800
<v Speaker 1>lot more training. You train your model, then you tweak

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.400
<v Speaker 1>all the settings so that you can improve your results,

0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:28.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, cut down on the false positives and fix

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:31.279
<v Speaker 1>all the mistakes, and you train it again, and you're

0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:35.120
<v Speaker 1>potentially using millions of images in order to do this. Now,

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 1>consider the humble door, now a door is a pretty

0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 1>darn simple thing to operate for most people, but there

0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:44.239
<v Speaker 1>are lots of different ways that a door could potentially

0:39:44.280 --> 0:39:47.359
<v Speaker 1>operate right Like, the door might have a knob that

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.520
<v Speaker 1>you have to twist. It might have a bar that

0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 1>you have to press, or a handle that you have

0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:54.359
<v Speaker 1>to pull. So when you encounter a door, chances are

0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 1>you have a decent idea of how it works, but

0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:59.880
<v Speaker 1>you might not know which way it opens it for

0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:02.360
<v Speaker 1>that can give you a little bit of a pause.

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.880
<v Speaker 1>One of my favorite of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.239
<v Speaker 1>a classic cartoon strip from the eighties. It shows a

0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:12.440
<v Speaker 1>young boy pushing as hard as he possibly can on

0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:14.719
<v Speaker 1>a door, and just above his hand on the door

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:17.640
<v Speaker 1>is a label that reads pull, and next to the

0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:21.400
<v Speaker 1>doorway is a sign that reads Midvale School for the Gifted.

0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:25.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel this cartoon in my soul some days. Well.

0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Robots are kind of like that student. Even a robot

0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:30.760
<v Speaker 1>that's been trained to open doors might need to pause

0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 1>and have a digital think about things before giving it

0:40:34.000 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 1>an attempt. So the south By Southwest panelist was telling

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:39.919
<v Speaker 1>the story of such a robot, and this robot sat

0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:42.319
<v Speaker 1>outside a door in a hallway. I think It was

0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:46.640
<v Speaker 1>an electrical engineering department at the university that this panelist

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 1>worked at, and it was sat there for several days

0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>just contemplating the door, and it was really irritating folks

0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:55.600
<v Speaker 1>who worked there because they had to walk around this

0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 1>thing in order to get through the hallway, and if

0:40:58.040 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>they passed in front of it, it irritated the row

0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 1>bodicists because it could actually disrupt the process and set

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:06.839
<v Speaker 1>things back even further. But the robot was just trying

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:09.520
<v Speaker 1>to figure out how it should proceed in order to

0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:11.400
<v Speaker 1>try and open the door. And when you think about

0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>how a robot could potentially be powerful enough to cause

0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:17.680
<v Speaker 1>damage to the environment it's in if it attempts to

0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.360
<v Speaker 1>do something incorrectly, then you start to understand why taking

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:24.719
<v Speaker 1>time might actually be a necessity. It might be an

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.759
<v Speaker 1>important thing to build into robots. It seems ridiculous to

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:30.960
<v Speaker 1>just stare at a door for days on end before

0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:34.520
<v Speaker 1>even attempting to open it, but if you could potentially

0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 1>rip the handle off the door or damage the door

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>in some way, well, taking time might be a needed precaution.

0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 1>And that's not even getting into the challenge of having

0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:48.640
<v Speaker 1>robots that operate within an environment in which they're also

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.799
<v Speaker 1>human beings. Obviously, you have to take a lot into

0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:55.640
<v Speaker 1>consideration in those kinds of situations where robots and human

0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.280
<v Speaker 1>beings are going to be working within the same environment.

0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Like in most industrial uses for robots, the robots are

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:06.279
<v Speaker 1>very much separated from all the people, like there are

0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:09.840
<v Speaker 1>multiple safety considerations put in place to keep the robots

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:13.759
<v Speaker 1>and people away from each other because the potential for

0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:16.600
<v Speaker 1>catastrophe is way too high. If you're working too close

0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:19.280
<v Speaker 1>to a robot, like it's a robot that welds stuff

0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:21.359
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. Well, you know you don't want to get

0:42:21.400 --> 0:42:24.719
<v Speaker 1>in the way of a welding, right, That would be awful,

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:28.439
<v Speaker 1>It would potentially be deadly. So creating robots that are

0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:32.279
<v Speaker 1>capable of interacting among human beings it comes with its

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.400
<v Speaker 1>own series of challenges you have to overcome. So not

0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:37.640
<v Speaker 1>only must the robot be able to move around without

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 1>falling over onto somebody, it needs to be able to

0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:43.839
<v Speaker 1>do this in a way that doesn't cause anxiety or

0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:47.560
<v Speaker 1>fear or other negative reactions among the human beings. Really

0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:49.920
<v Speaker 1>weird thing is that sometimes a robot can behave a

0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:52.240
<v Speaker 1>little too human and that can end up being almost

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:54.719
<v Speaker 1>as bad as if it's not acting human enough. You've

0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 1>got to find a balance, Like there are expectations that

0:42:57.360 --> 0:42:59.720
<v Speaker 1>humans have when it comes to interacting with the robots.

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Of the robots behave too far outside that set of expectations,

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:08.520
<v Speaker 1>it can cause issues. So robotics has become a truly

0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:14.239
<v Speaker 1>multidisciplinary endeavor. Making a bipedal humanoid robot capable of integrating

0:43:14.280 --> 0:43:17.160
<v Speaker 1>with humans the way the Tesla Optimist robot is supposed

0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:20.960
<v Speaker 1>to do that requires lots of work in disciplines that

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.800
<v Speaker 1>go well outside of technology. We're talking about stuff like psychology,

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and I think every time we see a remarkable achievement

0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.440
<v Speaker 1>in the robotics space, we're also reminded how far we

0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:34.359
<v Speaker 1>still have to go and how hard this really is.

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:39.919
<v Speaker 1>So will Tesla's Optimist robots deliver upon all the promises

0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:46.440
<v Speaker 1>that Elon Musk often quotes at these events. Maybe I'm skeptical,

0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 1>largely because Elon Musk has proven to make some rather

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:52.799
<v Speaker 1>ambitious claims the past that have failed to manifest as described.

0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.160
<v Speaker 1>He's kind of the boy who called fully autonomous driving.

0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:59.520
<v Speaker 1>And largely I also have doubts because I have an

0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 1>inkling as to how hard it's going to be to

0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:06.600
<v Speaker 1>make a bipedal general purpose robot that's at least as

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:10.040
<v Speaker 1>good as, and hopefully better than a human being at

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.160
<v Speaker 1>doing your typical tasks. If the robot is worse at

0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:15.759
<v Speaker 1>doing those tasks, then it's a waste of time and

0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 1>money to use the robot. Just hire somebody else to

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 1>do it, it makes more sense. So like these are

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.319
<v Speaker 1>these are really high barriers that you have to you

0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:28.480
<v Speaker 1>have to get over, and I don't think we're going

0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:30.680
<v Speaker 1>to get over them very quickly. I think it's going

0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:33.719
<v Speaker 1>to take years and years more work. But it is

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:35.960
<v Speaker 1>a heck of a goal to aim for. I don't

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:39.879
<v Speaker 1>want to shame anyone for taking aim at achieving this

0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:45.320
<v Speaker 1>really difficult task because it drives innovation. I think that's important.

0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:49.320
<v Speaker 1>So I don't want to dismiss anyone who's working toward

0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:54.320
<v Speaker 1>building bipedal humanoid general purpose robots that have a level

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:57.719
<v Speaker 1>of AI that allow them to operate autonomously within a

0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:00.839
<v Speaker 1>human environment. I think that that is a phenomen I

0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:04.400
<v Speaker 1>just think it's also one that's going to require many

0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:09.040
<v Speaker 1>more years of work for it to be a viable project. Right, Like,

0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess I could see a disappointing version becoming a

0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:17.040
<v Speaker 1>reality within a couple of years. But that's really falling

0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:20.439
<v Speaker 1>fall short of the promise, and I would much rather

0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:26.120
<v Speaker 1>see more work being done to improve the technology than

0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:30.319
<v Speaker 1>for a premature release of some humanoid robot that just

0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:33.759
<v Speaker 1>doesn't do anything well enough to justify its existence. That

0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:36.280
<v Speaker 1>would really take a lot of wind out of the sales.

0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I think, all right, that's it for this episode of

0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:42.919
<v Speaker 1>tech Stuff. I hope you're all well, and I'll talk

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:53.400
<v Speaker 1>to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production.

0:45:53.680 --> 0:45:58.719
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:00.840
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.