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Speaker 1: Do you think that a man should pay on the

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Speaker 1: first date. No. Today we have Logan uri On.

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Speaker 2: She is the director of Relationship Science that Hinge, a

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Speaker 2: behavioral scientist, a dating coach, and she is the author

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Speaker 2: of How to Not Die Alone.

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Speaker 3: It is something that I personally find so frustrating because

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Speaker 3: that is an excuse to not connect. Oh, it's a

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Speaker 3: deal breaker that he wore socks with sandals. No, he

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Speaker 3: wanted to wear sandals and his feet are nice and

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Speaker 3: cozy in his socks.

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Speaker 1: I have some profiles actually that were sent in.

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Speaker 3: So my first piece of feedback would be in our

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Speaker 3: research at HINE, we found in general that self is

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Speaker 3: just don't perform as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, What are some of the mistakes that you see

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Speaker 2: people make on dating profiles that really hinder their success.

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Speaker 2: I'm Radi Wukia and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,

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Speaker 2: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space

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Speaker 2: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you

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Speaker 2: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of A

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Speaker 2: Really Good Cry. Today we have Logan urine On. She

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Speaker 2: is the director of relationship science. That Hinge a behavioral scientist,

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Speaker 2: a dating coach, and she is the author of How

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Speaker 2: to Not Die Alone, a book that helps people understand

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Speaker 2: their dating blind spots and find lasting love using research

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Speaker 2: back strategies.

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Speaker 1: I've read this book top to.

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Speaker 2: Bottom, and even though I'm already in a relationship and married,

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Speaker 2: I found so much benefit from reading it. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was such a brilliant book. So thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for coming to you. I wanted to start off

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Speaker 2: by asking you what got you into where you are today,

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Speaker 2: because it is such a fascinating role that you have,

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Speaker 2: and I would love to hear more about how you

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Speaker 2: got into it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I think like many other people, when I

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Speaker 3: was growing up, I was interested in the drama and

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Speaker 3: the gossip of dating and relationships. But I feel so

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Speaker 3: lucky that I've been able to turn that into a job,

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Speaker 3: and so it's taken different forms over the last ten years.

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Speaker 3: So I've worked one on one as a dating coach,

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Speaker 3: and I still do that. I teach a class on dating.

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Speaker 3: I have my role at Hinge where I get to

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Speaker 3: do research on dating. I wrote my book. I was

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Speaker 3: just the coach on a Netflix show called The Life

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Speaker 3: daters working with older daters, and so I really feel

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Speaker 3: like I've gotten the chance to take the two fields

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Speaker 3: that I'm interested in, so the field of behavioral science,

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Speaker 3: the study of how we make decisions, and combine it

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Speaker 3: with the field of relationship science how love works, and

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Speaker 3: then give people research backed advice that really helps them

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Speaker 3: navigate their journey to finding love.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, having worked at HINGE for a while,

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Speaker 2: what's one of the most unexpected things that you kind

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Speaker 2: of learned about relationships and dating at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, you know, it was just my five year

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Speaker 3: anniversary of working there, and I started working there right

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Speaker 3: when the pandemic started, and so it was really interesting

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Speaker 3: at that time just to see what happened with Hinge

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Speaker 3: and so really it was one of the only safe

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Speaker 3: ways that people could meet. So just being able to

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Speaker 3: observe dating behavior during the pandemic was fascinating. Then seeing

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Speaker 3: the rise of sober dating, that is something that I'm

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Speaker 3: really interested in. So many more people don't feel like

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Speaker 3: they need to get a drink or two on a

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Speaker 3: first did and gen Z's really leading the charge there.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And in behavioral science, when you see people one on

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Speaker 2: one has there been a trend in what people are

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Speaker 2: finding the most difficult about dating at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So what I found is that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people suffer from unrealistic expectations. And I have a framework

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Speaker 3: called the three dating tendencies. This is from working with

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Speaker 3: hundreds of people and they're from all different walks of

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Speaker 3: life and different ages and different countries, but so many

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Speaker 3: of them have the same thing in common, which is

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Speaker 3: these unrealistic expectations. So I can go through each one please.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. My next question was you say the three dating

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Speaker 1: time Great, can you tell.

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Speaker 3: Me about that? I'm jumping into your question. So yeah.

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Speaker 3: So the first one is the romanticizer, and yes, I

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Speaker 3: want to know which one you are, by the way,

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Speaker 3: so let me know at the end. The romanticizer is

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Speaker 3: someone who really has these unrealistic expectations of relationships, so

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Speaker 3: they think this is going to be my soulmate when

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Speaker 3: I meet them all. No, immediately, it's going to be

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Speaker 3: love at first sight. And while that's very romantic and

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Speaker 3: can be exciting at the beginning, these relationships end up

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Speaker 3: ending because the person and says, oh, well, we're fighting now,

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Speaker 3: or we have these issues, it must not be my soulmate,

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Speaker 3: and so instead of understanding that relationships do require work

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Speaker 3: and the best relationships are people who really work on

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Speaker 3: them together, they sort of say, well, this must not

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Speaker 3: be my soulmate. And then the second type, the maximizer.

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Speaker 3: They have unrealistic expectations of their partner. So this is

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Speaker 3: the person who's constantly searching for the perfect person and

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Speaker 3: always wants to find someone better and comes to my

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Speaker 3: office and says, the looks of this girl, with the

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Speaker 3: ambition of this girl, with the height of this girl,

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Speaker 3: you know, just go find them for me. They're so

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Speaker 3: focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll

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Speaker 3: have the perfect relationship, instead of understanding really that they

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Speaker 3: can choose someone great and then build that relationship together

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Speaker 3: they don't need to keep searching for perfection. And then

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Speaker 3: the third one is the hesitator, and they have unrealistic

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Speaker 3: expectations of themselves. And so the hesitator is someone who's

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Speaker 3: likely not even dating because they think just not ready

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Speaker 3: to date yet, I'm not lovable. If I go out

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Speaker 3: on a date and I meet someone, well, I'm not

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Speaker 3: the person I want to be yet, so I'm going

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Speaker 3: to blow my shot. So they'll say I want to

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Speaker 3: lose weight, I want a more impressive job, I want

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Speaker 3: to clean up my apartment, And there's constantly this goalposts

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Speaker 3: that they're moving and for them, really the next activity

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Speaker 3: is just to actually get out there and date and

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Speaker 3: to set a deadline, set small goals that they can

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Speaker 3: achieve and really start dating.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting because when you were going through them

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Speaker 2: and when I was reading the book, I felt like,

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Speaker 2: at different times in my life, I've been different different ones.

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Speaker 2: I've been the romanticizer before, I've been the maximizer before,

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Speaker 2: and I've been the last one too. But I'd say,

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Speaker 2: you know, now I can't really relate to any of

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Speaker 2: them because I'm with Jay. But I definitely have been

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Speaker 2: one of those types. I think when I was really insecure,

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Speaker 2: I was definitely the last one when I you know,

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Speaker 2: when I started dating, I was probably the second one

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Speaker 2: where I was like, but is this it?

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Speaker 1: Is this? Not it? Am I supposed to find?

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Speaker 2: You know, these different qualities that I think I should

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Speaker 2: be having in my life. And I've definitely been the

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Speaker 2: first one where I've just thought, oh my gosh. When

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Speaker 2: you're young and you see all these movies and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is what love is supposed to be like? Or

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Speaker 2: when you grow up with a dad who's also a

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Speaker 2: great father figure and a husband, you're like, oh, my

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Speaker 2: partner should be.

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Speaker 1: Exactly like that. And I think I was that person.

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Speaker 2: I would see my dad do all these things and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you, my husband should be able

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Speaker 2: to do all the handyman work in the house.

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Speaker 1: That's just what it should be like.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: And Jay was not someone who did handyman work, and

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Speaker 2: I do that now. But the ideas that you that

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Speaker 2: you kind of collect through movies, through the people that

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Speaker 2: you interact with, through the role models that you have

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Speaker 2: in your life, they kind of shape who you kind

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Speaker 2: of believe that you should be with before you even

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Speaker 2: meet the person.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean that's something that I'm actively researching

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Speaker 3: right now, kind of exactly what you've said. I think

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Speaker 3: that there has been an interesting shift where for many years,

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Speaker 3: there was kind of one expectation of what a guy

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Speaker 3: should be like. And it sounds like your dad was

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Speaker 3: maybe this archetypal kind of mass skill in handyman like

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Speaker 3: big father figure type, and then you know, men were

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Speaker 3: kind of their role was to be the provider or

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Speaker 3: to make money for hundreds of years, and then now

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Speaker 3: that women are making more money and getting more educated

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Speaker 3: and more women are graduating from college, the men, then

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Speaker 3: that role really shifts. And you have men who are

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Speaker 3: sort of saying, well, if I'm not the provider, what's

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Speaker 3: my role? And women saying well, if he's not the provider,

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Speaker 3: what is he bringing? And I think the answer is

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Speaker 3: that people are are relying on each other for emotional

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Speaker 3: stability and connection and vulnerability. But it does really require

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Speaker 3: kind of like an update to the system. And I

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Speaker 3: feel like I want to hear you talk about that

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Speaker 3: because I feel like it sounds like you had like

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Speaker 3: a very kind of stereotypical dad and then a husband

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Speaker 3: is probably like one of the most emotionally intelligent people

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so interesting, Like my dad was definitely

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Speaker 2: the provider, made sure that he was. He was also everything,

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Speaker 2: Like if we had anything important at school, he was there.

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Speaker 2: If my mom needed him to chuck things in the

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Speaker 2: kid he chucked things in the kitchen. So he was

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Speaker 2: always there physically. But I think you know something that

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Speaker 2: generation of men, I'm just you know, generalizing, but kind

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Speaker 2: of struggled with was the emotional part of it, and

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Speaker 2: especially from my culture, like Indian, men are traditionally not

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Speaker 2: people who are used to expressing their emotions, and so

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Speaker 2: it was interesting because I'd see him show up and

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Speaker 2: his mode of love was acts of service. But when

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Speaker 2: it came to like Valentine's Day, or when it came to,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe writing a card, he really struggled with that.

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Speaker 2: And I would kind of go with him to buy

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Speaker 2: the flowers for my mom and be like, give these

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Speaker 2: to mom, you know, And so you know, he's gotten

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Speaker 2: his I think as he's grown older, he's become so

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Speaker 2: much more open with his emotions. And he has three

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Speaker 2: women in the house, so he kind of has to be.

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Speaker 2: But when I then went on to see men in

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Speaker 2: dating situations, I was looking for that masculine energy. But

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Speaker 2: what had shifted was I think now men are open

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Speaker 2: to being more emotional, and so I wasn't used to

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Speaker 2: thinking that a man can be masculine and shop as

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Speaker 2: the masculine energy and be emotional. So at first I

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Speaker 2: think I was going towards men who were very masculine,

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Speaker 2: but they didn't have the softness that my dad had,

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Speaker 2: but they were able to do the handyman work. They

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Speaker 2: were like, you know, they were strong and they had

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Speaker 2: all those abilities, but they weren't really filling the emotional

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Speaker 2: need that I needed. And so then when I met Jay,

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait, I didn't realize that they could

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Speaker 2: be this beautiful balance of a man having the emotional

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Speaker 2: intelligence that you imagine feminine energy brings, but also tuning

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Speaker 2: into the masculin energy of feeling protected, not in a

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Speaker 2: masculine way that you expect where he'll just like beat

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Speaker 2: someone up, but in the sense of I feel safe

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Speaker 2: and protected in his presence.

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Speaker 1: And I think, now men are.

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Speaker 2: You're really being able to see that because they're happy

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Speaker 2: to tune into their emotional part of themselves, but they

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Speaker 2: also understand their role in being the protector and the

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Speaker 2: safety of something.

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Speaker 3: Like what was that like for you? Like in the beginning,

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Speaker 3: where you like, this feels different. I'm supper to be

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Speaker 3: the emotional one, the emotionally intelligent one.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And it made me realize how emotionally intelligent I

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Speaker 2: wasn't because he and it was all to do with

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Speaker 2: the work.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't whether he was male or female.

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Speaker 2: It was because he had actually put in time and

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Speaker 2: effort to work through the traumas that he'd been through

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Speaker 2: as a child, the things that he did or didn't

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Speaker 2: want to be when it came to his mum or

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Speaker 2: his dad, the things that he wanted to take on

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Speaker 2: into his relationship or didn't.

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Speaker 1: And actually, I'd.

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Speaker 2: Say I was way less emotionally intelligent and less I

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Speaker 2: was immature in my emotions because I had that stereotypical view.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't allowing it to be what it was. I

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Speaker 2: was constantly putting these expectations onto the relationship of what

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Speaker 2: it should be. And then when I started observing him

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Speaker 2: and how he was towards me, it started teaching me

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Speaker 2: about what it actually means to be in a relationship

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Speaker 2: where the emotions flow both ways. And so it was

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Speaker 2: really weird for me at the beginning. For sure, I

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Speaker 2: really had to settle into it. But it's almost like

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Speaker 2: you can't. You can't not feel loved, and when you

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Speaker 2: feel loved and cared for in the most authentic way,

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Speaker 2: which is how I feel he is with me, you

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Speaker 2: can't not settle into it. Like you can either run

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Speaker 2: from it, which I definitely kept doing. I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: this was too much, like don't be so emotional, and

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Speaker 2: I used to say that to him. I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh God, I'm not you see you being this emotional.

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Speaker 1: But then I realize it's such a beautiful part of

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Speaker 1: it because he feels safe enough to do that with me,

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Speaker 1: and I just see that as like such a compliment

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Speaker 1: in our relationship, rather than seeing it as something that's weak.

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Speaker 1: I actually think men who are emotional have the most

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Speaker 1: amount of strength because they able to embrace their emotions.

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Speaker 3: There's a famous quote. It's like in a Brene Brown

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Speaker 3: ted talk from a number of years ago, where she's

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Speaker 3: giving this speech about vulnerability and how everyone you know

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Speaker 3: she'd embrace vulnerability and vulnerability is strength. And then a guy

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Speaker 3: comes up to her afterwards and it's like, my wife

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Speaker 3: and daughters don't want me to be vulnerable. And it's

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Speaker 3: like maybe they would say that they want me to

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Speaker 3: be vulnerable, but like when I actually express any sort

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Speaker 3: of vulnerability, it scares them because they need me to

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Speaker 3: be the strong one. And I think that's such an

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Speaker 3: interesting part of it, because it's like we're speaking in generalize,

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Speaker 3: but it's like, are women saying, yes, I want this

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Speaker 3: emotionally vulnerable man. But then when he is like showing

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Speaker 3: the softer, more feminine sides. Are they like, oh wait,

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Speaker 3: I'm You're not the pillar of strength that I need

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Speaker 3: you to be. Yeah, so how can we give more

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Speaker 3: space to that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And I think it is changing our view of what

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Speaker 2: masculinity means, because a lot of what we see as

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Speaker 2: being masculine is actually toxic masculinity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like, just because someone's going to be able to beat

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Speaker 2: up someone on the street for you because they look

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Speaker 2: at you, doesn't mean that that's a mask, that's a

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Speaker 2: positive masculine trade. Yeah, And so I think it's shifting,

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Speaker 2: and I do see it shifting, though. I see a

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Speaker 2: lot more women wanting emotional maturity over a man being

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Speaker 2: able to open the door for them or like buy

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Speaker 2: them stuff.

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Speaker 3: Or is that what we're seeing with friends?

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Speaker 1: I actually am.

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Speaker 2: I think when I was younger, it was definitely the

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Speaker 2: narrative that I said, like this strong guy with muscles

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Speaker 2: and whatever. And now as I see my friends who

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Speaker 2: have gotten older shifting through relationships and now seeking a partnership,

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Speaker 2: they've completely shifted in the mindset and they're like, I've

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Speaker 2: been I've been through all the men who don't have

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Speaker 2: emotion but they've got muscles, and they can do all

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Speaker 2: those things that doesn't actually feed me in the way

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Speaker 2: I need it to.

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Speaker 1: So now they're shifting their perspective and what they want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I think this conversation is so interesting

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Speaker 3: because I feel like oftentimes like we're taught to look

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Speaker 3: for a certain thing, but then that's not actually what

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Speaker 3: ends up being fulfilling to us. And I do think

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Speaker 3: like even in the last fifty years, this had shifted

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Speaker 3: so much because like basically only fifty years ago could

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Speaker 3: women get a credit card in their own name. Like

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Speaker 3: there's just all these ways in the United States, there's

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Speaker 3: all these ways in which men just controlled like the

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Speaker 3: whole economic system, and so like over fifty years, through

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Speaker 3: feminism and more women going to college and all of that,

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Speaker 3: like women aren't catching up in many ways financially. So

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Speaker 3: then you're just like, well, this equation of like you

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Speaker 3: take care of you know, the emotions and all be

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Speaker 3: the provider. Like that switching is just going to change

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Speaker 3: things up, and I think people are still catching up.

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Speaker 3: I think like we still have these old scripts. So

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Speaker 3: even though some of like the economics have changed, everything

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Speaker 3: else has changed. So, for example, you're talking about chivalry

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Speaker 3: it's like, well, when a woman's like, oh, it's a

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Speaker 3: red flag if he wants to split on the first date,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, but you make more money than him. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But they're like no, no, no, it's chivalry. But I'm like,

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Speaker 3: is it.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that a lot.

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Speaker 2: Actually, what do you says that are like, oh, but

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Speaker 2: he you know, he didn't even offer to pay for

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Speaker 2: the full bill. And because your first date. Imagine how

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Speaker 2: many first date these guys are going on. And I agree,

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Speaker 2: even if someone does have the finances, I think I

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Speaker 2: would we shouldn't just expect that. In my opinion, I

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Speaker 2: don't think that the guy should have to pay every

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Speaker 2: single day. I think it's a bit it's unfair because

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Speaker 2: you also want the expectation of if I think sometimes

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Speaker 2: you want it both ways. We want to be able

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Speaker 2: to make money, be the provider as well, be a

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Speaker 2: girl boss, but then at the same time you want

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Speaker 2: the guy to show up financially for you too, and

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Speaker 2: so it kind of sends mixed messages. In my opinion,

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes we're like, yeah, I want to be

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Speaker 2: a girl boss and I want to be like doing

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Speaker 2: all these things, but then I also want the guy

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Speaker 2: to pay for me, and it want the guy to

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Speaker 2: be financially stable, and I want him to show me

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Speaker 2: all these qualities. And I think men get a bit

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Speaker 2: confused because sometimes I know my guy friends have sometimes said, oh,

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Speaker 2: if I end up offering to pay, I don't want

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Speaker 2: them to think that I think I'm old school and

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Speaker 2: that I I'm not. So the split feels like equality

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Speaker 2: in a sense, right, and so I think there's a

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Speaker 2: I think there is definitely still a confusion in that area.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, everything you said is what I've seen in

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Speaker 3: the research. And it's so interesting because first of all,

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Speaker 3: I do understand certain things like women might spend more

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Speaker 3: money like getting ready for a date, or maybe they

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Speaker 3: do make less money. But I think there are situations where,

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Speaker 3: you know, roughly based on people's jobs, they'll know like

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Speaker 3: the woman makes more. But it still feels like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's a green flag if he pays or offers to pay.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that we just as a culture

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Speaker 3: need to have conversations around that, which is like, there's

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Speaker 3: so many other ways for a person to express green flags,

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Speaker 3: like what about like asking you great questions, picking a

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Speaker 3: date spot that's convenient, really listening to you, following up

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Speaker 3: and saying, hey, how is that big meeting? Like, I

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Speaker 3: just feel like there's so many ways to be supported then,

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Speaker 3: just like who pays for the drinks? And I understand

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Speaker 3: maybe you say, oh, I don't like to split it.

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Speaker 3: One person pays for the first date, one person pays

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Speaker 3: for the second, or I got this round, you got

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Speaker 3: that round. Like I understand, we still want it to

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Speaker 3: be romantic and not transactional, but I just feel like

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Speaker 3: there's certain ways in which we need to catch up

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Speaker 3: to this moment.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and not base it purely on that way. So

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Speaker 2: I need to ask you, do you think that a

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Speaker 2: man should pay on the first date?

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think that there's a rule around it,

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Speaker 3: like you know it has. I'm married, it has been

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Speaker 3: a while since I've been on a first date. But

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Speaker 3: I think that if someone offers, I would definitely offer

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Speaker 3: to split it exactly, and that if they said no,

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Speaker 3: you know, I would say, Okay, I've got the next one.

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Speaker 3: I do think they'll like, I'll pay for one round

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Speaker 3: of drinks, you pay for the other. Can be nice,

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Speaker 3: like if you can coordinate it. I think the most

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Speaker 3: important thing is that, like you know, I have been

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Speaker 3: talking to some men about it, and they're like, I

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Speaker 3: like paying for the first day. If that's how they feel,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to like fight the mem for the bill.

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Speaker 3: It's not like so important to me that I would

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Speaker 3: need to make that statement. It's more that, like, as

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Speaker 3: a society, I would like to move away from the

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Speaker 3: idea that like what this person can offer you as

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Speaker 3: money and if they can offer it, then why are

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Speaker 3: you there and instead be like, hey, like you're the

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Speaker 3: girl boss. You make a lot of money. That is

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Speaker 3: so cool. You are so empowered, Like you have this

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Speaker 3: career that you fought for and you're earning money. Maybe

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Speaker 3: you don't need to have someone else be the provider.

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Speaker 3: That's what you bring to the table in addition to

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Speaker 3: other things. So what else are you looking for in

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Speaker 3: a partner? And it's like by lowering the importance of

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Speaker 3: the other person being a provider, you will also raise

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Speaker 3: your expectations for things like emotional vulnerability, splitting household chores,

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Speaker 3: things like that.

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Speaker 1: And have you seen through the research you've done that

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Speaker 1: women are looking less for finances in men or not.

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Speaker 3: I'm seeing both. I'm still seeing that paying for a

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Speaker 3: first few dates is a grain flag right, so that

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Speaker 3: it's like for straight women, they do want men to

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Speaker 3: pay for a first date. But then kind of the

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Speaker 3: cultural conversation that I'm seeing is this overall idea that

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Speaker 3: as things have shifted and women have had these great

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Speaker 3: achievements in education and earnings, then the expectations of a

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Speaker 3: male partner go up, because if I need more from

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Speaker 3: you than just being the provider and the protector, then

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Speaker 3: I do expect you to ask me how my day was.

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Speaker 3: I do expect you to know the name of my

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Speaker 3: best friend at work. And so I think that we're

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Speaker 3: in this cultural moment where we need more space for

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Speaker 3: women to allow men to be vulnerable, kind of like

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Speaker 3: what we were talking about, where sometimes it can scare

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Speaker 3: you because you're like, well, if you fall apart, can

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Speaker 3: I also fall apart? Who's going to keep the ceiling up?

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Speaker 3: But then also for men to understand that they do

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Speaker 3: need to provide more than maybe they did in the

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Speaker 3: past or something different.

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Speaker 2: Is there a benefit of having a partner on the

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Speaker 2: same financial bracket as you, Like, how have you seen

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Speaker 2: those dynamics. I'm really interested in that because some of

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Speaker 2: my friends who all Gilboss is like, I just need

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Speaker 2: someone who unders stands my world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and other people are like, you know what.

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Speaker 2: Find it so much As long as he's able to

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Speaker 2: support me in the home and do all of those things,

436
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Speaker 2: it doesn't bother me as much. But most of the

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Speaker 2: time I do see women wanting men who are at

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Speaker 2: the same drive level and financial brackets them.

439
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

440
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 3: Have you heard of the term hypergamy? No, So this

441
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 3: is a concept that people often want someone who's the

442
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 3: same or higher level success in them. And so it's

443
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 3: kind of like you only date horizontally or diagonally, right,

444
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 3: you only date like same as you or better than you.

445
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,479
Speaker 3: And so traditionally women have sought out kind of these

446
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 3: hypergamist partners where it's like, okay, well we both have

447
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 3: undergrad degrees, but oh no, actually he has a graduate

448
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 3: degree and that kind of thing. So women want to

449
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 3: date someone who is the same or higher level of

450
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 3: education and income, but men care less about that. And

451
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 3: so what's happening is as more and more women graduate

452
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 3: from college, and in fact, there's some estimations that in

453
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 3: few years it'll be two women graduating for every one man.

454
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 3: Then there just literally won't be enough men who have

455
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: the same or higher level of education, and so what

456
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 3: do you do in that situation? And I think saying

457
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 3: to women lower your expectations like that never goes well.

458
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 3: No one really wants to be told lower your expectations

459
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 3: or settle. I feel like in my coaching world, like

460
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 3: settling is a bad word. But I think that's why

461
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 3: I much thinking about things like what really matters to

462
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: you and double down on those things and being willing

463
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 3: to compromise on the areas that are less important. And

464
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 3: I think we just I don't have the answers. I

465
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 3: just feel like I'm identifying that there is a cultural

466
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 3: shift here and I'm really interested to see, like with

467
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 3: gen Z and soon Jen Alpha, like how they will

468
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 3: navigate this moment.

469
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: You talk about digital body language.

470
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to go into that bit more because

471
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: you know, I always wonder I never had to do

472
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: online dating. I've got in a relationship before that kind

473
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: of picked up, But I always wonder whether the dynamic

474
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 2: of feeling someone's energy in person. Yeah, completely changes when

475
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: you're trying to date someone online. So explain digital body

476
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 2: language to me and how we can navigate that.

477
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 3: Sure. So in some research that we did with gen Z,

478
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: daters from around the world. We found that there was

479
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 3: this really a lot of importance placed on digital body language,

480
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 3: which is these the subtext of digital communication. So it

481
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,239
Speaker 3: might be emoji, punctuation, how long your message is, how

482
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 3: long you wait to respond, and so it's like not

483
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 3: just what you say, but how you say it. And

484
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 3: we were hearing from so many daters that someone's digital

485
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 3: body language or DBL is a major sign for them

486
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 3: as to whether someone's interested.

487
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: Right.

488
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 3: So, for example, if somebody sends back one word responses

489
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: or doesn't ask any questions, or doesn't seem to want

490
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 3: to meet up, you're going to read between the lines

491
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 3: that that person's not interested in you. And so it's

492
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: really important for daters to have good digital body language

493
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 3: because they may be inadvertently giving across the message that

494
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 3: they're not interested when they are How far.

495
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: Should someone go from messaging to speaking on the phone

496
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: to actually meeting up in person when they're dating on

497
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: an app.

498
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 3: So what we found is that three days of chatting

499
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: is actually the sweet spot in terms of messaging to

500
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: setting up a date. And I really think of a

501
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: date as it could be a FaceTime, it could be

502
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,239
Speaker 3: a phone call, or it could be meeting up in

503
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 3: person kind of to what you were talking about. In

504
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 3: terms of gauging someone's energy, I agree that you really

505
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 3: do need to hear their voice and maybe be around

506
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 3: them to do that. So I don't think that the

507
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 3: dating app is where romance and courtship should happen. I

508
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: think it's like the modern matchmaker that's like, hey, you

509
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 3: too seem to have some things in common. Go chat,

510
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: and then those two people are like, let's get out

511
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: of here and meet up in person, and then on

512
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: that date you'll see do you like the way they

513
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 3: move their hands when they talk, do you like the

514
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: sound of their voice? Do you have chemistry? And so

515
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 3: I think it's less about becoming pen pals and chatting

516
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: for we and then deciding to meet up and like really,

517
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: probably before you're even ready getting onto that date and

518
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: seeing is this the kind of person I want to

519
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: see again?

520
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 2: Messages can be so misconstrued, and they think that is

521
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 2: actually where things go wrong the most from what I've seen,

522
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: is like what do you think he means by this?

523
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: And why do you think he didn't message me?

524
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 2: Or and theweening in between the lines is what drives

525
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: most people crazy totally because you don't know them well

526
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: enough they send. For me, doing emojis is very normal.

527
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: For someone else that might not be so they may

528
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: never have used the emoji in their whole entire life,

529
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: and so for them saying yes full stop is like

530
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: a really pleasant way of speaking for me to be

531
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 2: like yes xxx heart whatever, And so for me messaging

532
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: like that, they might be like, whoa this girl is

533
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 2: eager For him messaging saying just yes full stop, it's like, oh, okay,

534
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: I've said yes, I can't wait to see this person,

535
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: and so I think yes, reducing the amount of time

536
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: that you're actually texting for before you actually know the

537
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: way that they speak, the way that they actually communicate

538
00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: via message.

539
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: It's so important.

540
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 2: I even think about it with my team whenever we're communicating.

541
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 2: I've had to really make it clear that because I

542
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: have to be on my phone all the time, I

543
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: won't always be like do pleasantries before and after messages.

544
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: And I've had a few people on my team I've

545
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: been like, oh, I just need to know, like sometimes

546
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: when you don't reply, are you upset with something I've done?

547
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: Are you this?

548
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, and I've had

549
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: to explain it. And so once I've explained that to

550
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: my team, they're like, oh, okay, now they understand that

551
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: if I miss a message, if I'm writing one word answers,

552
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: it's just me trying to make sure that we get

553
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: things done, not that I'm upset, angry, or mad. And

554
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: I think that's the same with the communication of dating

555
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: online is literally the same thing. You just can't assess

556
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: someone based on the language that they use when they're messaging,

557
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: especially at the beginning.

558
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I feel like that happens in so

559
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: many types of digital communication. Like I was on a

560
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: podcast a few months ago and the guy was great,

561
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: and after re recorded, I was like, you know, I

562
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: kind of thought you were a jerk based on your emails.

563
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 3: He's like, what do you mean. I was like, me,

564
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 3: show you the emails that you sent, and I was like,

565
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: this was the subtext of them, and he's like, wow,

566
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 3: like I really see what you mean. I'm so embarrassed.

567
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not trying to embarrass you, but

568
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: just like you may not realize how you're coming across

569
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: over this digital communication. It's like we weren't dating, we

570
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 3: were setting up a professional relationship. But I think it's

571
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: so true. It's like we're not all operating from the

572
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 3: same rule book. And so in this research, there was

573
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: a woman from Sri Lanka who was saying, oh, emojis

574
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: are so cringe, like's not like when a girl sends

575
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 3: me an emoji. And then you know, you have a

576
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 3: guy from Florida being like, emojis are the best way

577
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 3: to flirt, and then you're like, okay, not that those

578
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: two people are dating each other. But if everyone has

579
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: a different definition, it can be really hard. And that's

580
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: why I do think that people should invest in digital

581
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: body language, things like matching the person's energy, like if

582
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: they write back right away, don't play a game and

583
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: try to be cool and wait hours to respond, just

584
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: have the conversation. But at the same time, it's like, well,

585
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: the answer is actually just to be in person sooner

586
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: so that you don't have to have all these games

587
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 3: in your about what does that text mean, because you're

588
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 3: just having a conversation irl.

589
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: And I imagine when you're dating, like, oh, how many

590
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: people do you actually think someone should be speaking to

591
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: at once? Because I feel like my friends get so

592
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: bored of the same conversations over and over again, and

593
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: they kind of get exhausted and they don't even want

594
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: to open their up because they're like, oh, this is

595
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: just another same conversation over and over again. So how

596
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: many people do you recommend as a sweet spot for

597
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: someone to be talking to at once?

598
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, So two answers for that. So one is if

599
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: you do feel like you're having the same conversations over

600
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: and over again, changing up your profile can be a

601
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: good way to change that. So for example, I had

602
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 3: a dating coaching client who did trapeze. So she had

603
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: this really cool picture of her and a Lee tard

604
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 3: doing trapeze. Then every single conversation with a guy would

605
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: be where do you do trapeze? Blah blah blah. So

606
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 3: I was like, even though that picture is awesome, I

607
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 3: think you should switch it out for something so that

608
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: you have a different conversation. So refreshing your profile and

609
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 3: unhinge refreshing your prompt responses can just lead to different conversations.

610
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 3: So that's one little hack in terms of how many

611
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: people at the same time. I find it does depend

612
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: on the some but I'll give you some rough rules

613
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: of them. So some people feel like they can really

614
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: only focus on one or two people at the same time,

615
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 3: and for them, that is the best strategy. For other people,

616
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: especially people who are more anxiously attached, it can be

617
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: helpful to be talking to a few people so that

618
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 3: you sort of don't have all your eggs in one basket,

619
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: and it kind of can help you keep calm. That's

620
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: probably more the kind of data I was but at Hinge,

621
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: we found that one of the biggest issues with dating

622
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: burnout was not hearing back from your matches. So forty

623
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: percent of our users said that the biggest issue causing

624
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: burnout for them was non responsiveness. So Hinge launched this

625
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: feature last year called your Turn Limits, and it's one

626
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: of the coolest things I've seen since I've been at Hinge.

627
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: And basically how it works is when you have eight

628
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: conversations where you owe the person a response, it's your

629
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: turn to respond. You can't match with more people nice

630
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: until you respond or close out those conversations. And I

631
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 3: love it because, kind of going back to behavioral science,

632
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 3: it's kind of like using this nudge. It's saying we

633
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 3: want to create the behavior of people responding to each other,

634
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: because that's how you go on dates, and that's how

635
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: you feel more valued and more connected. Okay, well, we

636
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: think that people are going to have better experiences and

637
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: focus on quality over quantity if they're talking to fewer people,

638
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: we're going to literally force you to either respond to

639
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: people or close out the conversations before you get more matches.

640
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 3: And we have seen the results of quality over quantity.

641
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: That's actually so great that you do that. It's so amazing.

642
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: You must get to accumulate so much data and wisdom

643
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: that allows you to actually make it a better environment.

644
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 2: You want success, you want people to actually win in

645
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: love and dating. So I feel like sometimes people think

646
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: dating apps are just so one after another, you're on

647
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: a hamster wheel and you're just reeling them out. But

648
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: I think having those limits are really important because in

649
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: day to day life, you don't have unlimited access to people,

650
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: for sure.

651
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: And I think in those for people, you know, I

652
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: have plenty of clients who are burned out. I just

653
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: like to talk to them about the success stories. And

654
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: so in my newsletter, like every month or so, will

655
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: have a story where it's like this person was dating

656
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: this way, it was not working for many years. Then

657
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: they made this shift and it's often working with a coach,

658
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: working with a therapist, having a new attitude. They started

659
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: dating differently and they got this different result, And so

660
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: I think people sometimes need reminders that it's not just

661
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: like the dating disasters you hear on TikTok, it's actually

662
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: people who are saying, like, I'm going to choose a

663
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: different path and I'm going to get a different outcome.

664
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: And hearing success stories just so I feel like you

665
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 2: get more negative than positive when it comes to it. Right,

666
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: as like you're surrounding yourself with stories that are hopeful.

667
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: Right to feel hopeful on that.

668
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: I feel like it used to be like Instagram was

669
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: like share your highlights like you see like in the

670
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: highlight reel, and every relationship seems perfect, And now I

671
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: feel like we've shifted towards On TikTok, it's like listen

672
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 3: to my bad date, and it's like if you're single

673
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: or new newly single, and that's what you're taking in.

674
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: Of course you're going to feel negative about dating. Of

675
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: Course you're going to have a mindset of it's not

676
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: going to work out. It never works out. So I

677
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: think people should be really conscious of the friends they

678
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: are surrounding them so with and the media that they're consuming,

679
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: because of course that's going to impact the way you

680
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 3: feel about dating. And if you really want to find someone,

681
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: then surround yourself with people and content that makes you

682
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: feel like you can do it.

683
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: Yes, not the X page, Yeah, one hundred.

684
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what you've seen this guy who or

685
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: there's lots of pages which do newick unleashed and it's

686
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: like showing all the different inks that they have on dates,

687
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: and I'm like, at this point, there's the ick for everything.

688
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: I know that. It is something that I personally find

689
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: so frustrating because it's just like it is funny. It

690
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: is like a source of humor. Like I get it.

691
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: I do like hearing about silly X. But at the

692
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: end of the day, I'm like, that is an excuse

693
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: to not connect, and that is an excuse to judge

694
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: someone for not being perfect when you're not perfect either.

695
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: And so I really hate when we get like viral

696
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: content that celebrates being judgmental about things that are truly

697
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 3: pet peeves and they're seeing them as deal breaker. Oh,

698
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: it's a deal breaker that he wore socks with sandals.

699
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: It's like, no, he wanted to wear sandals and his

700
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: feet are nice and coat in his socks, And that's

701
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: maybe a pet peeve of yours, but it's truly not

702
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: a deal breaker. And I think those X pages are

703
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: funny but probably not helping people achieve their goals.

704
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: You talk about it in the book.

705
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: Actually, the idea of pet peeves versus non negotiable. Could

706
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: you kind of define the truth because I think that's

707
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: something people get.

708
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: A real deal breaker is when you have a fundamental

709
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: incompatibility that means you can't be together. So one would

710
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: be you have different religions and you both want to

711
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: raise your kids in that religion, it's not going to work.

712
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: Or one of you as a smoker and the other

713
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 3: has asthma. This just isn't going to work. So that

714
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: is a true reason not to be together. Pet peeves

715
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: are things that may not be your favorite and may

716
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: annoy you or even annoy you more than it would

717
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: annoy other people, but it truly wouldn't get in the

718
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: way of you having a healthy relationship. As people get

719
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: older and their list, their checklist gets longer, and the

720
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: list of things that they feel like they must have

721
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: or they can't have gets longer. They move a lot

722
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: of things to this deal breaker list. And when I

723
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: work with clients, you know, like mid thirties and up,

724
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: I'm often saying, I understand that your list has gotten

725
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: longer because you're like, I've been dating this long, he

726
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: better be perfect by now. But this is actually the

727
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: time to move those things to a pet peeves list

728
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: and to really say, I'm gonna say these are the

729
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: things that matter, these are the values and double down

730
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: on those. And the things like the socks with sandals

731
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: or you know whatever mouth breathing choose with their mouth open.

732
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: It's like, sure, you wouldn't choose that, but you could

733
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 3: get over it. You could help them change it, and

734
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 3: it's not going to get in the way of having

735
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: a really great relationship.

736
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: You can buy him different sandals, you can buy different stuff.

737
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: Is so superficial. It's like his apartment wasn't that clean.

738
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, you can help him understand what clean apartment

739
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: is like, like not that you should clean the apartment,

740
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: but I'm just saying it's like I feel that people

741
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: put up these walls and it's a way to not

742
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 3: connect and if you actually focus on your goal of

743
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes I'll say to my client, I'll say like, Okay,

744
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: if you find someone to marry in the next year

745
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: who you're so excited about, and I was going to

746
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: give you ten million dollars for finding that person, what

747
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: would you do in the next year. And then they say, okay, well,

748
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: i'd really focus on this and I go to these

749
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: events and I do this, and I'm like, okay, well,

750
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: I'm not going to give you ten million dollars, but

751
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: go do that. I'm like, there are things that you

752
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: could do in turbo mode to really get out of

753
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: your way. And that's why I think when people really

754
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: focus on a timeline or a goal, not to make

755
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: them rush, but to make them understand that there are

756
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: things that they could be doing that would lead to

757
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: different outcomes.

758
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: Yes, and you mentioned dating profiles.

759
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: What are some of the mistakes that you see people

760
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: make on dating profiles that really hinder their success.

761
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. So at Hinge we've done an incredible amount of

762
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: research into what makes a great profile. So I have

763
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: some of this in my book, but actually have updated

764
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: information now based on the last five years at Hinge.

765
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: So the most important thing is just a really good headshot.

766
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: People need to see for the first photo, what you

767
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: look like. That's the whole point. So don't have a

768
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: group photo or something with glass are far away. Just

769
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: a clear, well lit headshot.

770
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: But like a headshot like adess.

771
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 3: Okay, I say that, but I kind of just am

772
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 3: looking for a word that means like, you know, somewhat

773
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: cropped of your face, clear, no sunglasses, no filters, it's

774
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: not artsy, you're not in shadows something like that, like

775
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: well lift. Then the photos that people are looking for

776
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 3: are one of you doing an activity that you love,

777
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: so it might be you hiking, you cooking, a full

778
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: body shot, and then one with friends and family. And

779
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: make sure that it's clear that none of these people

780
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: are your ex girlfriend or boyfriend. And then also you

781
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: want to have a variety of photos. You want to

782
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 3: show different size of yourself. So I had a woman

783
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: in my dating class who had four photos from the

784
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 3: same photoshoot with her and her dog, and I was like,

785
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: you're cute, your dog is cute, but I now know

786
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 3: what you look like on this day. I don't need

787
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 3: four pictures of it. So we cut that down and

788
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 3: then for prompts, it's really about expressing yourself and showing

789
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 3: both humor and vulnerability. So sometimes people are just all

790
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: still and sarcastic, and then that's kind of one side

791
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 3: of them, or they're all super earnest, like bullet points

792
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: of like, you know, must be open to adventure, journaling, meditation.

793
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's great, but show me other sides of

794
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: yourself as well. And so it's really about painting this picture.

795
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: And then in terms of the big don't don't have

796
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: one of those photos where it's you know, you and

797
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: your girlfriends that bridesmaids at someone's wedding and you all

798
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 3: look the same and I can't tell which one you are.

799
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: People don't like photos with smoking or Jim selfies especially,

800
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: And then for no Jim selfies, No, that's a turn off.

801
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 3: Only three percent of successful profiles you all have Jim selfies.

802
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: And then for the prompts, it's really about not having

803
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: one word answers, not having grammatical mistakes, and just showing

804
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: us new information.

805
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: It's so interesting whenever, like some of my friends when

806
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: they're picking their profile pictures and stuff, they'll send it

807
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: to a group chat.

808
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a group chat of guys and girls.

809
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is so interesting to see well, guys

810
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: tell the belsa versus what women tell their friends to pick.

811
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: I find that the view of what is beautiful, sexy,

812
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 2: or attractive is completely different for both. The men are like, oh, yeah,

813
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 2: show a bit of skin, but not too much skin.

814
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: The girls are either like, yeah, you should show up

815
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: your buddy and like be really like confident in the

816
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: way that you're showing off yourself. But I find that

817
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: the pictures that men and women choose are so different.

818
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: So when you're seeking advice about profile pictures, do you

819
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: ask guys because that's who you're trying to attract, or

820
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: do you ask your girls because they'll have, you know,

821
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 2: the same kind of mindset as you.

822
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've found the same thing that you found in

823
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: your group chats. So in my class, we actually have

824
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 3: people post photos and then they get feedback from the

825
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 3: coaches in the class. There's like an image expert who's

826
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: like one of the coaches, and then from men and

827
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: women in the class. But you're right, it's like, oftentimes

828
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: women will be like, you look so pretty there, I

829
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: love your dress, and then a guy will be like,

830
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: you look caught here. Yeah, And I don't have the

831
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: perfect answer. I think it's like, you know, a deeper

832
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: thing around like the male gaze. It's like, you know,

833
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: we're talking about straight dating, but it's like, are you

834
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 3: trying to get the photo that most men will respond to?

835
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 3: Are you trying to get the photo where you feel

836
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 3: like you look the most like yourself? And I think

837
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: that that's something for people to decide for themselves. Like

838
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: there was a woman in a class who had like,

839
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: like a very busty bikini photo and one of the

840
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: women wrote as feedback, like I don't think you're going

841
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: to get the kind of attention that you want from that,

842
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: And so I think that people should just think about

843
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 3: what impression do I give someone with this photo. So

844
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: maybe that person's like, I'm here to have fun. I

845
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: want to show off this bikini picture. Like more power

846
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: to you that you were empowered to do that, But

847
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: also that is going to send a certain message. And

848
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 3: so I think there's like the girl hot, the guy hot,

849
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, it's like, how

850
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: do you want to be perceived at this moment in

851
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 3: your life and what feels authentic to you.

852
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: I really like that actually, because I think when at

853
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: the end of the day, you want the person to

854
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: get the clearest depiction of you as you. So I

855
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: need lots of my friends who are actually like so sweet,

856
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: actually not very forward in the way that they date

857
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: or have relationships with people. But when they put up

858
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: pictures of themselves showing a bit more skin, naturally, the

859
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: guys that they attract are like the ones who kind

860
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: of want one night stands or something, but that's not

861
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 2: what they want, and so they kind of realize through

862
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: the experience of putting different pictures up what they end

863
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: up attracting through it.

864
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I definitely when I was using online dating,

865
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: you do have that experience. You know, different photos get

866
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 3: you more or less attention, and different types of attention.

867
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 3: And I think that as people change and their relationship

868
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: goals change, they can also change their profiles.

869
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I have some profiles actually that were sent me

870
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: by listeners. We have two profiles, and they're happy for

871
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: their names to be said, but I'm going to show

872
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: you them.

873
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: It's a video and I was wondering if you could

874
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: analyze it.

875
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 3: Can I read it out loud?

876
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: Yes?

877
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: Pleez? Okay, this is Hannah. The way to surprise, the

878
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: way to win me over is to surprise me. Okay,

879
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: it doesn't have children, want's children, ASA's London. Okay, I'm

880
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 3: really taking it in. Yeah, all right, So some nice

881
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: pictures dressed up with her friends, and there's a picture

882
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 3: of an egg with a graduation thing. I geek out

883
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: on books. I love reading. Giving half a chance, I'll

884
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 3: spend more time in a bookshop than Zara homark for

885
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: a good relationship, respect, authenticity, and kindness. There's a really

886
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: cool one of her climbing. She's beautiful ocean side. Okay,

887
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: so my first piece of feedback would be I feel

888
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: like for the prompts, it's possible to just add more like.

889
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 3: The way to win me over is to surprise me.

890
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: So I really like to have prompt responses that include

891
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: a hook. So a hook is something that people can

892
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: immediately respond to, and so the easiest hook is often

893
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: a question, but it could also be a hot take.

894
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: So the way to win me over is to surprise me.

895
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: What's the best surprise you've ever done for someone else,

896
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: or what's the best gift you've ever given? Or she

897
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 3: could just you know, completely change it. The way to

898
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: win me over is listen to me when I talk

899
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: about work and ask me for follow questions or something

900
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 3: like that. So I would say, like to surprise me.

901
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 3: I think that there's just not enough there for somebody

902
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: to follow up on, especially for the first prompt, which

903
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: is often like what people respond to. Then I think

904
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: for the photos, you know, I think they're definitely attractive.

905
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of them are more going out,

906
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: Like the first one is like a going out photo,

907
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: the second one is a going out photo. Then there's

908
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: the one of the egg wearing the graduation cap, and

909
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: it might be that that has a caption that I

910
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: can't click on. But for that one, I would say, like,

911
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 3: I'm just not learning more information about you. That's an

912
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 3: opportunity for you to tell me more about yourself. So

913
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like that one's a bit of

914
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: a waste and I would swap it out for a

915
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: different photo of her. And then I love that she

916
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: has a photo of her doing something that she loves,

917
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: you know, traveling or climbing. I like that there's some

918
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: full body pictures in here, and I like that she

919
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: has friends and family. And then I like the one

920
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 3: about books. I love reading. Given half a chance, I

921
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 3: think that's a great opportunity for a hook, so she

922
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: could say extra credit if you recommend my next great book,

923
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: or what's the last good book you read? Or she

924
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 3: could even you know, do a funny poll like is

925
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 3: listening to a book actually reading? And so I think

926
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 3: there's a nice way to engage there. I had a

927
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 3: client who wanted to indicate on his profile that he

928
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: was looking for a long term relationship, but he didn't

929
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 3: want to come on too strong. Yes, and he really

930
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 3: loved reading, So he came up with this one about

931
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 3: I'm looking for somebody to combine my bookshelves with.

932
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

933
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: I loved it because it was it was indicating like

934
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 3: I'm here for a good time in a long time,

935
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 3: but I you know, but while also indicating that he

936
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: loves reading.

937
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: Oh that's great. Actually, yeah, great advice.

938
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: Good. Yeah. So I would say overall, like I think

939
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: it's a fun profile. I think she can add like

940
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: maybe some different types of photos for a little bit

941
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 3: more variety, swap out that egg photo and then use

942
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: the prompts to go a little bit deeper. And then

943
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 3: she could also use some of the other features. So

944
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: there's like a prompt poll where you could say, like

945
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: where should we go for our first date or ask

946
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: a question. And then there's also one where you can

947
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: do a voice prompt and like, you know, if you

948
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: have a lovely accent, if you're from London, like you

949
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 3: could do that and people really love to hear what

950
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 3: people's voices sound like.

951
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: Gosh, that was great, great, Yay, let's try this next one.

952
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: This is Alison Alison all right together, we could leave

953
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 3: places early insta al babs all right. Then there's a

954
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: photo of her and her friend. This one. One thing

955
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 3: I'd love to know about you is what did you

956
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 3: yap about in therapy this week? Love it me and

957
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 3: my best friend? So there's a kid green flags I

958
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 3: look for and not friends with an ex caption this photo.

959
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: So a few things. One is that in our research

960
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: at Hinge, we found in and all that selfies just

961
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 3: don't perform as well. And so Allison has the first

962
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: photos a selfie, the second photo is a selfie, the

963
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: third photo is a mirror selfie. I think, oh, and

964
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: the beach photos a selfie, so like four out of

965
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 3: six of them are selfie. So that's something that I

966
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 3: would change for the one that says me and my

967
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 3: best friend. There might be more information on here that

968
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 3: I can't see, but I would immediately want to know,

969
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: like is this your kid or not. That's something that

970
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 3: comes up a lot, like in research and in anecdotal

971
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: conversations where people are just like, there's a guy holding

972
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 3: a baby, like is that your nephew or your son?

973
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 3: Because I want to know. So it's possible that there's

974
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: something else on here, but that would be a question

975
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: for people.

976
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: All baby picture is good, like you and a baby,

977
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: If it's not your baby, is that a good pick

978
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: to have?

979
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: I think that it can just add more confusion than clarity.

980
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 3: But some people might say it's really cute. I'm like,

981
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 3: just take a picture of a friend's dog or something

982
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 3: that I say, it's not your dog, Okay, so then

983
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: this is together. We could leave places early. I really

984
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 3: like that. I feel like that's evocative for me, like

985
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: I want to go out, but I want to leave

986
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: early with you. But then giving your Instagram handle right

987
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: away is actually generally not perceived as well by people

988
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: on hinge, so it's kind of seen as like, oh,

989
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: are you just trying to get followers or college. I mean,

990
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's necessarily what's going on here.

991
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it might she might just be like, you

992
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: can look at more photos of me there. But that's

993
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: something that we specifically have seen is when people just

994
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: leave their Instagram handle, it's kind of like, I don't

995
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 3: know you check me out right, Or when people say

996
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: I'm overly competitive about dot dot dot everything, those become cliches.

997
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: Right and also not it doesn't feel like you've put

998
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: in enough f at me, right.

999
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 3: And so actually Hinge came out with a feature earlier

1000
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 3: this year that's called prompt Feedback. So basically it's an

1001
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 3: AI coach that will show you, like privately and no

1002
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 3: one else can see it, things like go a little

1003
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 3: bit deeper or add a bit more. Like if you

1004
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 3: say I'm overly competitive about everything, they'll say, what are

1005
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 3: you competitive about? Talk more about that? And so I

1006
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: feel like the feedback for this one might be like,

1007
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: instead of giving the Instagram handle, like, tell us more

1008
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 3: about what you want to do together, and then you know,

1009
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: I do feel like we get photos. I like this

1010
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: last photo of her with this dog, it's a video.

1011
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 3: Oh no, this is a video. I'm sorry. I feel

1012
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 3: like we would like see her in action. Yeah, and

1013
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 3: then it looks like there's only two prompts that she

1014
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 3: responded to. The first, Oh, no, I really like this one.

1015
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 3: What did you yap about in therapy this week? Like

1016
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 3: I feel like yap is kind of trending right now.

1017
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: So I love that she used that, and I think

1018
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 3: it's just a really great way of indicating, Like I like,

1019
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 3: if you're in therapy, tell me about how you're in therapy.

1020
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: What did you talk about in therapy? I think it's

1021
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: kind of vulnerable. I really like that one. Green flags

1022
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,959
Speaker 3: I look for and not friends with an X. That's fine,

1023
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 3: but it kind of gives me this like negative energy

1024
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 3: of like where you burned by someone who is friends

1025
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 3: with their acts, Like don't you think that some people

1026
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 3: can be friends with their exes? So I think that

1027
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 3: in general, it's better to focus on what you do

1028
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: want then then instead of what you don't want.

1029
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: So necessarily a green flag, because it's like, is something positive.

1030
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: Totally, it's like just taking an opportunity to talk about

1031
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 3: something positive and say don't do this. And so I

1032
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 3: would actually just either scrap that one altogether or change

1033
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: it to a green lag that you actually do look for.

1034
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: Yes, great, Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you, Alison. Right.

1035
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alison, thank you so much for sending in your

1036
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: profile and I hope that that helped you. How do

1037
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: people find you, know, if they don't want to be

1038
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: on apps? Yeah, what's the best place for people to

1039
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 2: start finding people outside of the apps?

1040
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 3: I've definitely found more and more that people are asking

1041
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 3: me like, how do I meet someone off the apps?

1042
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1043
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: I feel like if you're single and really serious about

1044
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: finding someone, you should just think about the apps as

1045
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 3: like part of sort of an overall portfolio. It's like

1046
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: you're on the apps because that's the way to meet

1047
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: the most number of people, and it hinge. We're setting

1048
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 3: up a date every two seconds, But there's no reason

1049
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 3: why you can't be going to a party and striking

1050
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 3: up a conversation with someone. Or I feel like people

1051
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 3: under use the friends of friends thing. So there's this

1052
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: concept called weak ties. Professor Adam Grant talks about this

1053
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: a lot, where it's like you probably are going to

1054
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: get your next job through a week tie someone who's

1055
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 3: an acquaintance and a for a friend of a friend

1056
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 3: because your friends have the same information you do. They

1057
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 3: know the people you do, they know the jobs that

1058
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: are available that you do, but the friends of friends

1059
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: have an extended network, so it's often easier to meet

1060
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: someone through that group. And you do have to be

1061
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: vulnerable and put yourself out there and say, hey, I'm

1062
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 3: looking for love. Do you know anyone like this? But

1063
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 3: I think it's a really great way to meet someone

1064
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: in context.

1065
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 1: I agree.

1066
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: I remember hearing this the theory of you know, if

1067
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: you're staying at home and you're waiting for someone to

1068
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 2: come and find you, that's like a zero percent chance

1069
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: of meeting someone. And then the more events that you

1070
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 2: say yes to, the probability of you're meeting people increases.

1071
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 2: The more that you go to friend's birthdays or go

1072
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: out to buy your groceries instead of ordering them in,

1073
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 2: like go out to a restaurant instead of ordering in,

1074
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 2: it just completely changes the probability of you meeting someone.

1075
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 2: And it might not be the person, but it'll be

1076
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: the person that could link you to the person. And

1077
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: so it sounds like such a simple theory, but some

1078
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: of my friends and I can't be bothered to go

1079
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: to this or I can't be bothered to go to

1080
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 2: this event. I've met all these people before. But it's like,

1081
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: but what about if you meet that one person that

1082
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: knows that person totally. So it's being like open to

1083
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: hope and opportunity, I think is a big mindset shift

1084
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: that has to happen to think of the wife.

1085
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think about that stuff all the time. Like

1086
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: my husband's parents met on the New York City subway

1087
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: now where my husband's mom was reading a developmental psychology

1088
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: book and my husband, my husband's dad approached her about it.

1089
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: And it's like that just wouldn't have happened now itay

1090
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: is because they would have both had air pods in,

1091
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: or she would have been reading on a device, or

1092
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 3: it would be seen as creepy to talk to a stranger.

1093
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 3: And so I think we just all need to really

1094
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: work on this muscle. And if it means that the

1095
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 3: only time you talk to a stranger is when they're

1096
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 3: super attractive and you're interested in them, that's not how

1097
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: to build the muscle because you won't be good at

1098
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: it and you'll be nervous. Just talking to people out

1099
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 3: and about in general is such an underrated skill. So

1100
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 3: it's like you're waiting in line for tsa ask someone

1101
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: how long have you been waiting here? Or you go

1102
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 3: to an event and you say, you know, where's the

1103
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 3: bathroom or how do you know the host? Like, just

1104
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 3: work on the skill of talking to people, talking to strangers,

1105
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 3: really get into these small talk conversations, and then when

1106
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 3: you do see someone you're attracted to and you want

1107
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 3: to shoot your shot, you're just going to be so

1108
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: much better at it because you've been practicing speaking to

1109
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: people you don't know.

1110
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: Yes, wait, how did you meet your husband? So?

1111
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 3: I met my husband originally in college, Ok, and then

1112
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: we just like met once randomly for a lunch, and

1113
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: then seven years later we were both working at Google.

1114
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 3: But even then it took another year for us to

1115
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 3: start dating.

1116
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: Really, you were friends at best.

1117
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: We were friends and like he was going on dates

1118
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 3: and I was chasing this other guy, and it really

1119
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 3: took a year to be like, oh wait, he has

1120
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 3: all the qualities I'm looking for.

1121
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: Ah, so nice.

1122
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: When you guys started dating, you know or well, you'll

1123
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: recommend for questions to ask on dates, like are there

1124
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 2: some top questions that you have that people should ask?

1125
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it might be a little different for us

1126
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 3: because we had been friends for a while. I think

1127
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: that people often make the mistake on first dates of

1128
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 3: treating it like a job interview, and so it's like

1129
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 3: you're going in with this mental checklist of essentially, are

1130
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 3: you good enough for me? Are you going to fulfill

1131
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 3: the role of husband or wife?

1132
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: Yes?

1133
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 3: Are you going to get a gyues to move on

1134
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: to the second date or a no? And instead you

1135
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: can have a radically different view of first dates, which is,

1136
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 3: I'm here to have an experience with you and see

1137
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: what it's like to spend time with you, and I

1138
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 3: want to have fun and even if this doesn't turn

1139
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 3: into a relationship, I still want to have fun and

1140
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 3: have a connection. And so I have this tool called

1141
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: the post date eight and these are eight questions to

1142
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 3: ask yourself after a date. And the whole point is

1143
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: that if you go into the date with the evaluative

1144
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 3: mindset are you good enough for me? You're going to

1145
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: be looking for those things. If you go into the

1146
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: date with the experiential mindset, how does my body feel

1147
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 3: around you? What side of me do you bring out?

1148
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 3: Did I feel heard in your presence? Did I laugh

1149
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: in your presence? Did I feel active it? Did I

1150
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 3: feel interested? Did I feel bored? Somewhere in between? You're

1151
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: really paying attention to what it's like to be around

1152
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: that person, and I think in general people have sort

1153
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 3: of lost that skill. It's like you can always do

1154
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 3: the math of like how tall someone is, how much

1155
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 3: money they make, this and that, but it's like at

1156
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 3: the end of the day, like do you want to

1157
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 3: sit next to them on a couch on a Tuesday exactly?

1158
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: And what are some of the good places you know,

1159
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: do you think a dinner date is still the best

1160
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 2: place to go on the first day or what are

1161
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 2: some good places to take people out?

1162
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think dinner for most people would be like

1163
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: too serious.

1164
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: You know.

1165
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 3: I think a common first date, of course, you'd be

1166
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: like getting drinks. But as people are more sober, sober curious,

1167
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people are meeting up to go for

1168
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: a walk, right, or they might do an activity like

1169
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 3: they might play pickleball and then get a smoothie afterwards,

1170
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: or you know, a pick that's also good with kind

1171
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: of sharing the financial requirements because you know, both people

1172
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: can bring all that stuff. So I would say, really

1173
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 3: think about an activity that's going to be fun, that's

1174
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: going to help you show off your silly side or

1175
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 3: help you be less in your head, and then at

1176
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you don't say do I

1177
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 3: want to marry them? You say do I want to

1178
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 3: see them again?

1179
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: That's it? Yeah, do I want to see them again?

1180
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: The pressure off have it of planning the future from

1181
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: like the first time you meet someone, but take it

1182
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: date by date, step by step. Yeah, how can you

1183
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: tell if a man is emotionally stable in the first

1184
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: few dates? Are there some green flags that people should

1185
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: be looking for?

1186
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 3: In my book, I talk about the things that matter

1187
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: more and less than we think they do for long

1188
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 3: term relationships, and I'll share what they both are. But

1189
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 3: what's hard is that the things that are not as

1190
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 3: important are the easier ones to measure. Oh okay, So

1191
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 3: the things that are important but less important than people

1192
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 3: think they are, so looks and money. Of course, you

1193
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: want to be attracted to your partner. Of course money

1194
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 3: makes things easier. But at the end of the day,

1195
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 3: we adapt to our circumstances, so those things tend to

1196
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: be less important over time. Then people feel like, oh,

1197
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: we need to have the same personality, we need to

1198
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 3: have the same hobbies. That actually doesn't matter. You can

1199
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 3: be complimentary to each other and you don't have to

1200
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: share hobbies as long as you support the other person's hobbies. Now,

1201
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 3: the things that do matter more than we think they do.

1202
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 3: So the first one is kindness, and I think that

1203
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 3: you can tell that on a first date, or how

1204
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: someone communicates, you know, how do they treat the waiters,

1205
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 3: How do they treat someone who they need nothing from?

1206
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 3: Even how do they treat you? Are they a good listener?

1207
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 3: Do they seem interested loyalty? It does take more time

1208
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 3: to see that. But do they have old friends from

1209
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 3: different phases of their life? Are they the kind of

1210
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 3: person who helps someone move like? Do they seem like

1211
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 3: they hold on to people over time? The emotional stability one,

1212
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: I think that that takes time as well. But you

1213
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 3: can think about emotional regulation. So for me, when I

1214
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 3: was an anxiously attached DAT, I struggled with emotional regulation

1215
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 3: a lot. It was like I didn't hear back from you.

1216
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 3: I'm going to send you a million texts and then

1217
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: turn off my phone, Like I feel anxious, so I

1218
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 3: want to hear from you to make me feel better.

1219
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 3: It's like I was not the most emotionally regulated. And

1220
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 3: so I think looking for emotional stability and looking for

1221
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 3: someone who's able to kind of take that pause and

1222
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 3: you know, take that moment between the activity and their response.

1223
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 3: That's a great thing to look out for, but it

1224
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 3: does take time. And then a few more. One is

1225
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 3: the ability to make hard decisions together. Of course we're

1226
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 3: not just talking about like where are we going to

1227
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 3: order in from tonight, but really like if you have

1228
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 3: to decide between your friend's wedding and another friend's wedding,

1229
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 3: or where you're going to spend the holidays, Like are

1230
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: you good at decision making? Like I feel like now

1231
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 3: I've been with my husband for ten years, like as

1232
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 3: of a month from now, and I'm just like, Wow,

1233
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 3: We've really had to navigate a lot of hard decisions together,

1234
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: and i just feel like, in the end of the day,

1235
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's so smart, he's wise. I respect his opinion.

1236
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: I just cannot imagine being married to someone where when

1237
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 3: they I'm like, I don't really believe that. Yeah, I mean,

1238
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 3: how do you feel about that?

1239
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I definitely trust in his ability to

1240
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 2: take me into consideration.

1241
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 1: When we're making decisions a good one.

1242
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: I always know there's never a time where I feel

1243
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: like he's making a decision without having thought about me

1244
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: in the mix. Yeah, and I think that's been a

1245
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: really great feeling because I know that you're not trying

1246
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: to do anything. He's always wanting to not hurt me.

1247
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: He always wants to make sure I'm happy. Whether it's

1248
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 2: moving somewhere, whether it's having people over for dinner, He's like,

1249
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: do you want to cook?

1250
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: Are you sure you're okay? Are you tired?

1251
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: Like all the decisions, even micro decisions, he's really thoughtful

1252
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: about the way that he makes them. And so through

1253
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 2: having seen how he's made the big decisions like moving

1254
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: to the micro decisions like having people over, Yeah, it's

1255
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: been a great indication for.

1256
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 1: Me to now know you know what you make the decision.

1257
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 2: I trust that you can make it, and I know

1258
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: that you're thinking of me when doing it.

1259
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1260
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 3: I think you're talking about a really important point, which

1261
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: is like when we feel like our partner has our back,

1262
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 3: we can really lower our defenses when we feel like

1263
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 3: I need to fight for myself because you're fighting for yourself.

1264
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: I think that those couples have more problems because it's

1265
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 3: kind of like an adversarial relationship instead of believing that

1266
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 3: we're a team and we have a common goal. So

1267
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 3: it sounds like you and Jay just really you feel

1268
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: very safe and protected by the fact that you're always

1269
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: he's always considering you.

1270
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: Yes exactly? Do you always Okay? So you've had a

1271
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: first date.

1272
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: I think people struggle to know whether they should go

1273
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: on a second date if they're unsure about the person.

1274
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 2: What's your opinion on second dates?

1275
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: So when I wrote my book, I said that the

1276
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: second date should be the default, And that was really

1277
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 3: influenced by this idea of defaults, that in general, we

1278
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 3: can get people to take different behavior by just saying,

1279
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: instead of deciding every time, just make a rule. And

1280
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 3: so it's like, when you make the default that people

1281
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 3: are organ donors versus that they're not organ donors, well

1282
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 3: it really impacts the percentage of people in your population

1283
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 3: that are organ donors. So anyway, that was my thinking.

1284
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 3: Since the book came out, I feel like that's the

1285
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 3: one part of the book that I have got less

1286
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: passionate about because I feel like, if you truly did

1287
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 3: not enjoy the date and you're a busy person and

1288
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 3: you're like I felt zero percent interested in them, it's

1289
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 3: not going to go from zero percent to connection. So

1290
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: I don't think people need to make the second date

1291
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: the default. Instead, I recommend that they ask themselves those

1292
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 3: post date eight questions after each one. And what you're

1293
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 3: looking for is if it's someone where you feel somewhat

1294
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 3: interested in them but not head over heels, do it

1295
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 3: after the first date, see them again, do it after

1296
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 3: the second date. Are you finding yourself more interested in them?

1297
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: Did you have an even better time? Because some of

1298
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: the best people out there are these slow burned people

1299
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 3: that you like more and more each time. I feel

1300
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: like my husband, by the time that we started dating,

1301
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 3: we'd known each other technically for eight years. It's like

1302
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: he got better over time, and so you need the

1303
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 3: post date eight to sort of see the trend. But

1304
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: if you're zero percent interested in someone like I think

1305
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 3: you can call it no.

1306
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: Waste of time. Okay, get to know.

1307
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: I have questions from people, some questions in lots of people.

1308
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: I mean, most people are looking for a spark. They

1309
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: want that chemistry, they want their butterflies in their stomach.

1310
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: And in your book you say, f the spark. So

1311
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 2: I'd love to pick your brain on that.

1312
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we all know what the spark is, right,

1313
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: It's that feeling of chemistry and butterflies, and it feels great,

1314
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: and the spark is real. I definitely meet people and

1315
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 3: feel the spark. So I'm not saying that it's always

1316
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: a bad thing or that it doesn't exist. What I

1317
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 3: am saying is that people have become too focused on

1318
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 3: it as the indicator for whether or not they should

1319
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 3: see someone again. So I hear people that go on

1320
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: dates and say she was lovely, we actually had a

1321
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 3: lot in common. I'm just not going to see her again.

1322
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: Why we didn't have the spark. I didn't feel the spark.

1323
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 3: And so there's three miss of the spark. The first

1324
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 3: one is that if it's meant to be with this person,

1325
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 3: you're going to have instant chemistry, and that's not true.

1326
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 3: Oftentimes chemistry can build over time. Only eleven percent of

1327
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 3: people say that they feel love at first sight. So

1328
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 3: just because you didn't feel exactly when you met them

1329
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that by the end of the day, when

1330
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 3: they're talking about their family and they really light up,

1331
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 3: that you won't feel it right. The second myth is

1332
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 3: that if you feel the spark, it's a good thing,

1333
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 3: and we also know that that's not always true. Sometimes

1334
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 3: people are just very sparky. They give that feeling to everyone.

1335
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 3: I think you might be married to someone very sparky,

1336
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: and so it doesn't mean it's a bad thing, but

1337
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 3: it means be aware that that might be more about

1338
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 3: who the person is than the dynamic between the two

1339
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 3: of you. And actually, sometimes what we feel is chemistry

1340
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: is actually anxiety and it's alarm bells in our brains

1341
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 3: saying they're playing hot and cold. You don't know how

1342
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 3: they feel about you. And then the third myth is

1343
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 3: that if you have a spark, the relationship is viable

1344
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 3: and a lot of times people meet the right way,

1345
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 3: feeling like we had this amazing rom comp moment. Are

1346
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 3: we mat is so romantic? And it's like, yes, but

1347
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 3: don't stay in the wrong relationship because you met the

1348
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: right way.

1349
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: Mm okay, oh my god. The myths of the spark,

1350
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: I feel like that's going to be a good one

1351
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: for me. But to hear, oh okay, when someone is

1352
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 2: seeing other people, how long should you be dating someone

1353
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 2: for while they're also seeing other people, Like when it's

1354
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: time to say, okay, it's time for us to be exclusive.

1355
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the what are we talk or the define

1356
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 3: the relationship talk? I think it can depend on what

1357
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 3: your goals are. So for some people, they're saying, I'm

1358
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 3: okay with us dating other people, but if we're gonna

1359
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 3: have sex, I want to know that we're sexually exclusive,

1360
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: or I want to know that we're exclusively dating, but

1361
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: I don't need label. So I think that the spurs

1362
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: step is for someone to figure out on their own

1363
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: what are they looking for at this stage in their life,

1364
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 3: and then talk to their person and see if they're

1365
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 3: on the same page. Also to share from a place

1366
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 3: of hey, like I'm ready to delete hinge, what about you?

1367
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 3: And the other person might say no, I'm not there yet,

1368
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 3: and then you get to decide, well I can keep

1369
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 3: dating them, or I can keep waiting or not. So

1370
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: I think people often delay that conversation because they're afraid

1371
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 3: about the answer they're going to get. But instead you

1372
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 3: should try to get the data that you need.

1373
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 2: Yes, prom date versus life partner? Tell me more about

1374
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 2: when people pick the prom date versus the life.

1375
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know if you went to a prom.

1376
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: I didn't go to a problem, but I but I

1377
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: could I understood the type of person.

1378
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the prom dating, you're you're sixteen or seventeen years old,

1379
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 3: you're finding somebody cute in your Spanish class. You're saying,

1380
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 3: you know, do you want to dance the night away

1381
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 3: with me, take some pictures, have a kiss at the

1382
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: end of the night. That is just a completely different

1383
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: calculation than who you want to marry. And so I

1384
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 3: think for too long people keep dating the fun prom

1385
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 3: date person, and then they don't get the results they

1386
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 3: want as they get older, and maybe the person won't commit,

1387
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 3: or they're not aligned in their values, and at a

1388
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 3: certain point you need to make a conscious choice towards

1389
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: the life partner and really think about who is the

1390
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 3: person that I want to build a life with. Who

1391
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 3: is the person that will pick up my kid from

1392
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 3: the dentist when I'm away, or you know what we

1393
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 3: talked about. I can make hard decisions with them. I

1394
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 3: want to grow old with them. And so for people

1395
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 3: who are getting the same results over and over, it's

1396
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 3: really about understanding you might need to make that shift

1397
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 3: from prom date to life partner.

1398
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, these are questions from the audience. I was

1399
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: in a relationship for twelve years. Now I'm happy single.

1400
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever want to date again?

1401
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 2: Is that normal?

1402
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: And okay? Yeah?

1403
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 3: I mean in general, I try to avoid the word normal.

1404
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah who am I?

1405
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 3: Who has anyone else to tell you like what's acceptable

1406
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 3: or not? And I would just say, like, tune in

1407
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 3: to yourself, like are you single and happy? Do you

1408
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 3: feel like all your needs are met and you have

1409
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 3: a great community and you're having fun and you don't

1410
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 3: need a partner? That's fine and you can change your

1411
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 3: mind in a year or two. Or is it that

1412
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 3: you're afraid of getting hurt and you really do want

1413
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 3: a partner but you're worried about the steps that will

1414
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: take to get there, or you were hurt in your

1415
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 3: twelve year relationship, So I think let's worry less about

1416
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 3: normal and more about what is this person wants?

1417
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: Can you still be talking to X while you're trying

1418
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:51,919
Speaker 1: to date or find someone new?

1419
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 3: In general, I think speaking to your ex can be

1420
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 3: really distracting. If you're someone who's you know, divorced and

1421
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 3: you have kids together, like, obviously there's nuance there and

1422
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 3: you have to be in touch with them. But in general,

1423
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 3: the research shows that when you communicate with an X,

1424
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 3: or especially when you have sex with an ex, it

1425
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 3: can be really hard for you to move on, And

1426
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 3: you might think, well, I'm like still chatting with them,

1427
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 3: but I'm also moving forward. But research shows that it's

1428
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 3: much easier to make a decision about kind of the

1429
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: next stage when you're not still looking back at past options.

1430
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: It makes sense. What do you do if he doesn't

1431
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: text you off to your date?

1432
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 3: This one's hard. I feel like people ask me about

1433
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 3: texting all the time, and some of it is digital

1434
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 3: body language. So I would say, can you text them?

1435
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 3: Can you just say hey, thanks so much, that was

1436
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 3: a great time, or here's a meme you know that's

1437
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 3: relevant to what we talked about. It sounds like this

1438
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 3: person is sort of saying I want them to reach

1439
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: out first, So I might have that person explore like

1440
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 3: can you reach out first? But then kind of going

1441
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 3: deeper on the question, I might think about, well, do

1442
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 3: you feel like you're putting all the effort in? And

1443
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 3: if you stop putting an effort, then they wouldn't put

1444
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 3: effort in, And so maybe just pay attention to is

1445
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 3: this person matching your interest and momentum?

1446
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: Yes? Do opposites attract?

1447
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 3: This is funny. When I set out to write my book,

1448
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 3: I made a list of all these things that people

1449
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 3: say about dating that seem to contradict each other. And

1450
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 3: I think one of the first ones I wrote was

1451
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 3: opposites attract, Birds of a feather flock together. And I

1452
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: was like, you can just come up with any of

1453
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: these sayings that support anything, And I would say, sure.

1454
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 3: Sometimes we like opposites, like I would say my husband

1455
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 3: are my husband and I are extremely different. And in

1456
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 3: some ways that's really fun because I admire him, like

1457
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 3: he's super disciplined. That's not something I'm as good at.

1458
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 3: And in other ways it's frustrating because I'm like, why

1459
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 3: don't you want to talk about the Oscar winners for

1460
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 3: twenty minutes? Why are you not interested in some of

1461
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 3: the stuff I'm interested in? And so I would say,

1462
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 3: is like, focus less on opposites attract, and focus more

1463
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 3: on the things that really matter, like shared vision for life.

1464
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 3: How that person makes you feel like that's what matters,

1465
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, like if you're extroverted or introverted.

1466
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: Yes, how do I I love again after getting my

1467
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: heart broken by the person I thought I was going

1468
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 2: to marry.

1469
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 3: Oh, I know. I think part of this one is

1470
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 3: just acknowledging that it's really hard, Like rejection in any

1471
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 3: realm hurts, but I think especially rejection in romantic relationships

1472
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 3: where you can truly I guess not if you're polyamorous,

1473
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 3: but like for people who are monogamous, you can only

1474
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 3: have one, so it's like you're choosing one partner and

1475
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 3: you're like, I choose you, and they say, I don't

1476
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 3: choose you back, So I think just acknowledging, like how

1477
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 3: heartbreaking it is. There are activities that you can do

1478
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 3: to feel better after a breakup. So one is making

1479
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: a list of all the things that you can do

1480
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 3: again now that you couldn't do in your relationship, like

1481
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 3: these rediscover activities like oh, well he didn't like jazz,

1482
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 3: so I can go listen to jazz, or he never

1483
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 3: wanted to visit my family back in Michigan, whatever the

1484
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 3: thing is. You can also make a list of things

1485
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 3: about the person that annoyed you. It sounds silly, but

1486
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 3: these are techniques that have been proven to help people

1487
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 3: get over it. And then I think, you know, sometimes

1488
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 3: people say time heals all wounds, but I think we

1489
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 3: should update that to meaning heels all wound. So put

1490
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: meaning behind it, saying I really got my heart broken.

1491
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 3: I was really serious about this person. But at the

1492
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: end of the day, I wouldn't have wanted to be

1493
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 3: in a relationship with someone who didn't want to be

1494
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 3: in a relationship with me. Making meaning of it and

1495
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 3: saying it wasn't meant to be, and then thinking about

1496
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: what you do want and when you feel ready putting

1497
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 3: yourself out there again.

1498
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: Good advice. Is there really such thing as the one?

1499
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: Because I think I lost mine.

1500
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't believe in the idea of the one.

1501
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 3: I think we could have love stories and life stories

1502
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 3: with many different people.

1503
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: Okay, good, So no, not the one you might do.

1504
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: We all have many the ones.

1505
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, is the seven year itch in the relationship real?

1506
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: And what?

1507
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 2: I never actually heard of this till I read this question,

1508
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 2: and then I asked my team and they're like, oh, yeah,

1509
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 2: I've heard of this.

1510
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1511
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 3: I was actually looking into something about this recently that

1512
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 3: sort of suggested that, I mean, this is biological anthropology,

1513
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 3: which sometimes there's evidence for it and sometimes there's conflicting evidence,

1514
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 3: but it's sort of suggesting, like, you know, a man

1515
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 3: and a woman would get together and then they need

1516
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 3: to be together to raise the child. For the first

1517
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 3: seven years, and it's like kind of getting the child

1518
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 3: like past that first age of like being young, and

1519
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 3: then they're sort of saying there's a biological reason behind this.

1520
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 3: I don't. I think a lot of this stuff is overstated.

1521
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 3: I think many couples break up in the first few years.

1522
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 3: Many couples get way past seven years. So I would say,

1523
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 3: like a lot of these things are just old wives

1524
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: tales that somebody came up with. And it's like, at

1525
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 3: the end of the day, like be in a relationship

1526
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 3: because you and your partner choose to be in it,

1527
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 3: not don't worry about the amount of time that it's

1528
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:33,919
Speaker 3: been and.

1529
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 2: If it's not taking time off. Do you keep give

1530
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: back the ring after a broken engagement?

1531
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never had to deal with this one. I

1532
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 3: think giving it back.

1533
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: What do you think I can give it back? I

1534
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: think that's it's done and they bought the ring for you,

1535
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: it's not happening. Do you want to keep it?

1536
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 3: I agree?

1537
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 2: And like a memory, I understand, But at the same time,

1538
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 2: it's a memory of something that you probably don't want

1539
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 2: to keep around. It symbolizes something that you probably don't

1540
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 2: want to keep thinking of marriage in to monogamy, but

1541
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 2: now partner wants to be polyamorous.

1542
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,439
Speaker 1: Do I stay? Oh?

1543
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 3: I think that's a personal I'm not anti polyamory at all.

1544
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a time and a place for it,

1545
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 3: and that for some people to really what makes them happy.

1546
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 3: And I've been around a lot of friends who are polly.

1547
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 3: I think the way that this question is written, it

1548
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 3: sounds like their partner wants to do it and they

1549
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 3: don't know if they do. So I would say, read

1550
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 3: some of the great books, read Opening Up, read the

1551
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 3: Ethical Slut, decide is this something that you're even interested in?

1552
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 3: Explore it? Maybe try it on, and then say if

1553
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't work out, I want to close the relationship again.

1554
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 3: So I would say, don't feel pressured to adopt something

1555
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 3: that you're not comfortable with, but you could explore it.

1556
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 2: The guy I've been texting with or on a dating

1557
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: up with wants to go out on the first date

1558
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: with his cousins?

1559
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: Is he not interested? Have you ever had that where

1560
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: people want to go on group dates.

1561
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 3: For the first date. Yeah, I think that's kind of weird.

1562
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, weird.

1563
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 3: Red Flag.

1564
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: I feel like we've answered the rest of these yes.

1565
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Mush, thank you so much.

1566
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 2: It has been such a useful conversation and I really

1567
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,919
Speaker 2: hope that this has helped many people on their dating journeys.

1568
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: You're so well spoken. Thank you so much, You've got

1569
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 1: so much in Thanks for having me.

1570
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 3: Thank you