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Speaker 2: Well. The holidays have come and gone once again. But

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Speaker 4: when network is busy see terms.

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Speaker 3: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 5: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 5: No, Look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have a conversation from Chicago. This is

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Speaker 3: Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year. I'm Josh Lars and.

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Speaker 6: I'm Adam Kempenar.

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Speaker 5: You may not realize it was Kubilik, but I am

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Speaker 5: in the top ten deficiency wise.

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Speaker 7: And this may be the day promoshit wise.

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Speaker 5: You're getting a satellite.

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Speaker 3: Mister Kirk could be already.

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Speaker 6: That's Shirley McLain and Jack Lemon in the Apartment, one

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Speaker 6: of the all time greats, you know, movie wise.

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Speaker 3: Billy Wilder's Best Picture winning film turned sixty five this year.

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Speaker 3: We give it another.

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Speaker 6: Look and our top five films of twenty twenty five

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Speaker 6: so far, That and more.

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Speaker 3: I think Kiki Palmer and Sissa are both due for promotions.

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Speaker 6: Why you're still trying to be incorporated?

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Speaker 7: Do your own thing?

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Speaker 6: And what's that live to pay Jay Ahead on Film Spotting.

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Speaker 8: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through

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Speaker 8: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton

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Speaker 8: at one Peloton dot com.

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Speaker 6: Welcome to Film Spotting. The Apartment was inducted into the

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Speaker 6: Film Spotting Pantheon back in twenty ten. Josh, this was

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Speaker 6: just a couple of years before you join the show.

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Speaker 6: I hope you'll be a mensch and let it keep

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Speaker 6: its pantheon status.

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Speaker 3: I wish I could pretend to bring some suspense into

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Speaker 3: this conversation, Adam. But yeah, yeah, I think I'll be

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Speaker 3: in agreement here.

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Speaker 6: It's safe. It sounds like later in the show. A

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Speaker 6: Pantheon Project review of Billy Wilder's Bittersweet corporate comedy, which

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Speaker 6: won five Oscars back in nineteen sixty one, including Best

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Speaker 6: Picture and Best Director for Wilder. But first the best

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Speaker 6: films of twenty twenty five so far, we are into

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Speaker 6: July and we thought we would start with some listener choices.

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Speaker 6: A couple of weeks ago, we asked listeners to choose

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Speaker 6: their favorite of the year so far, Josh. We provided

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Speaker 6: them with these options. Danny Boyle's twenty eight years later,

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Speaker 6: Steven Soderberg's Black Bag, Selene Songs, Divisive, Materialists, Bong Juneo's

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Speaker 6: Mickey seventeen, Wes Anderson's The Phoenician Scheme, Ryan Coogler's Sinners,

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Speaker 6: or they could go other and write in their own choice.

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Speaker 6: How did it come out?

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Speaker 3: Materialists divisive enough to land in last place with only

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Speaker 3: one percent of the vote. Here close to that two

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Speaker 3: percent for Mickey seventeen. Wes Anderson's The Phoenician Scheme received

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Speaker 3: seven percent of the vote, closely followed by Danny Boyles

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Speaker 3: twenty eight years later that got eight percent of the vote.

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Speaker 3: Then a jump here to the top three, Black Bag

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Speaker 3: sixteen percent. Other So this will be interesting for the comments.

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Speaker 3: Other received nineteen percent. But pretty much running away with

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Speaker 3: this was Sinners forty five percent of the vote.

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Speaker 6: Well, let's find out what some of those other options were.

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Speaker 6: Julio Olivera says, look, of course at sinners, but I'm

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Speaker 6: kind of bored of The Sinner's Talk already, so I'm

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Speaker 6: going to give my vote to the third movie on

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Speaker 6: my list, Friendship. Maybe it'll finally get some film spotting attention.

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Speaker 6: So spoilers for Julio and everyone else, Friendship is not

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Speaker 6: going to make either of our list. Josh, you remain

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Speaker 6: the only Film Spotting host who has seen Friendship. I

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Speaker 6: did a lot of homework in preparation for this top five,

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Speaker 6: but Friendship was one I didn't really feel like I

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Speaker 6: needed to see. But you were at least moderately positive

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Speaker 6: on it.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't. I swear I talked about it on the show,

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Speaker 3: but maybe not. Maybe I saw that around the time

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Speaker 3: when I was traveling and just didn't work out to

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Speaker 3: give it a few minutes. But yes, I am positive, Julio. Unfortunately, yeah,

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Speaker 3: not positive enough for it to make my top five

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Speaker 3: of the year so far. We also heard from Eli Price,

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Speaker 3: who is going the Sinners route. Eli said, I voted

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Speaker 3: for Sinners, but my actual favorite, by a tiny margin,

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Speaker 3: is Soderberg's other twenty twenty five film, Presence. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: an other vote maybe there, Eli. He says, I love

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Speaker 3: the high concept technical idea of the Ghost pov. But

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Speaker 3: even more than that, it was the perfect medium for

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Speaker 3: that cathartic expression of ecstatic emotion that in real life

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Speaker 3: would be over the top. It's one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: things that films can do that David Lynch captured better

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Speaker 3: than anyone else. And it's one of those things that

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Speaker 3: just happens to you as you watch, as opposed to

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Speaker 3: you seeing it in or reading it from the film.

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Speaker 3: I get that it's a very subjective experience, but it

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Speaker 3: happened to me with this one plot in story mechanics aside,

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Speaker 3: I can't deny what it did to me.

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Speaker 6: I also had a great experience with presence. Thank you

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Speaker 6: for that. Eli. Here's Eric Brayban other The Ballad of

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Speaker 6: Wallace Island, a special film featuring one of the best

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Speaker 6: performances of the year, comedic or otherwise from Tim Key.

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Speaker 6: It's a film about nostalgia that manages to leave you

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Speaker 6: looking toward your future with renewed optimism. This is a

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Speaker 6: film I recommended on the show. Wasn't really in even

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Speaker 6: top ten consideration for me, but a movie I do

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Speaker 6: like and I encourage people to see.

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Speaker 3: I think you're a fan of this next one too,

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Speaker 3: Adam the hand comes from Casey Linsmeyer Ephis is the

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Speaker 3: best baseball film since Moneyball, A beautiful elegy to baseball

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Speaker 3: lovers young and old who are not ready to leave

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Speaker 3: the game.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, very good film. And we have a few more

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Speaker 6: here that were other choices. Josh and neither of us

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Speaker 6: have seen these films, so definitely didn't make our listen

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Speaker 6: good to put on the radars of all of our

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Speaker 6: listeners out there. We start with Zach, Well, this one,

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Speaker 6: this one is surely at least on the radars, whether

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Speaker 6: or not people chose to see it or, like us,

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Speaker 6: decided it wasn't worth our time. I actually can't remember.

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Speaker 6: Maybe you did see the one? Did you sit this

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Speaker 6: one out?

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Speaker 3: I'm off the MCU bandwagon, and yeah, despite the relatively

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Speaker 3: good word on this pick, it wasn't enough to push

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Speaker 3: me to get back on board.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so you know what Zach is picking. I can't

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Speaker 6: believe we are halfway through the year and my favorite

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Speaker 6: film is an MCU movie. Thunderbolts took me back to

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Speaker 6: a time when Marvel was provocative, set pieces were practical,

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Speaker 6: and performances actually felt human. I enjoyed every film on

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Speaker 6: this list, but none of them surprised me like Thunderbolts.

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Speaker 3: Here's Greg Waterworth Junior. For me, it's the little scene

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Speaker 3: Freaky Tales. This is from Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck.

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Speaker 3: Greg says this plays like a movie mixtape, not only

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Speaker 3: in the way it presents four intertwining stories, but because

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Speaker 3: it is clearly an homage to other filmmakers. Absolutely loved it.

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Speaker 6: Here's JP Aguire had to go with other for nay

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Speaker 6: Ja TiO. After I heard about this movie making a

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Speaker 6: billion dollars in its first eleven days in China, It's

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Speaker 6: now the fifth highest grossing movie of all time, I

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Speaker 6: had to see what the hype was. What I got

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Speaker 6: was one of the greatest animated spectacles I've ever seen.

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Speaker 6: I even went as far as seeing it about four

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Speaker 6: times in theaters. If you haven't seen it yet, do

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Speaker 6: yourself a favor and try to find a way to

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Speaker 6: see this animated cinematic achievement. The spelling of that, if

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Speaker 6: you are now really eager to check it out is

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Speaker 6: ne zha two.

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Speaker 3: All right, Thank you, JP. Our last comment here comes

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Speaker 3: from Dan Westler. Tend to Barry, the debut feature by Hailey.

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Anderson punched me right in the Gut and it's

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Speaker 3: currently my favor of the year. On the surface, it's

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Speaker 3: a slice of life portrait of a young woman trying

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Speaker 3: to make it in the city. Underneath, it has serious

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Speaker 3: American Honey vibes as it explores the broadest themes of

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Speaker 3: human connection, the value of existence, the passing of time,

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Speaker 3: and why and how we go about living in the moment.

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Speaker 3: To me, it even rivals Charlie Kaufman Senectage New York

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Speaker 3: and its exploration of individual consciousness versus shared human experience.

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Speaker 3: I truly hope you guys catch up with this one

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Speaker 3: because I think it belongs on the Golden Brick ballot.

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Speaker 6: It is a title I had heard of, and when

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Speaker 6: you're saying American Honey by way of Senecticky New York,

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Speaker 6: I have to say I am encouraged to see it.

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Speaker 6: How about you, Josh?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the Golden Brick list is strong already, but

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Speaker 3: we're always looking for for more candidates to either see

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Speaker 3: in the next couple of months or catch up on,

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Speaker 3: so we'll add this one to the list.

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Speaker 6: Dan, we thank everyone who voted and everyone who left

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Speaker 6: a comment. Let's get to films. We've definitely seen because

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Speaker 6: they are making our cut for the top five films

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Speaker 6: of the year so far, we decided to mix up

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Speaker 6: the format a little bit. We're going to go against

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Speaker 6: our instincts here and rather than get real in depth

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Speaker 6: explaining why these are the standout movies of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 6: we're going to try something new. Let me see if

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Speaker 6: I have this right, Josh, be concise. I don't know

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Speaker 6: if I'm going to pull that off after looking at

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Speaker 6: my notes, but maybe you can, Maybe you can explain

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Speaker 6: why we're going that this time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was sort of my idea, and I'll confess,

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Speaker 3: especially with this first pick here, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: entirely adhere to it. Oh No, I think the thinking

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Speaker 3: I will with other picks. The thinking was a few

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Speaker 3: of these movies we've already talked about on the show,

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Speaker 3: perhaps even given a full review. Yes, these movies may

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Speaker 3: be strong enough to stay on our lists at the

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Speaker 3: end of the year, and so we'll be discussed further

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Speaker 3: on our top tens there. And you know, we only

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Speaker 3: have so many thoughts about movies, Adams, so we don't

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Speaker 3: want to spoil all of them.

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Speaker 6: That's right early on, But you can only go to

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Speaker 6: that well, so often.

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Speaker 3: Mostly just don't want to be repetitive. So so, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I will be more concise with a couple of these

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Speaker 3: picks that are familiar. But yeah, the one I'm starting

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Speaker 3: with hasn't been touched on at all on the show,

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Speaker 3: So bear with me a little bit more. Here. Is

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Speaker 3: that kind of how you thought about things generally?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I did try to be more concise. I was

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Speaker 6: jotting down a bunch of bullet points and then I

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Speaker 6: realized is getting long winded as usual, and I started

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Speaker 6: moving things around and actually being a little more succinct.

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Speaker 6: But we are essentially trying to approach this as more

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Speaker 6: of a check in. We've got a big discussion, and

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Speaker 6: I think it will be a long, fruitful discussion of

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Speaker 6: the apartment coming up. We don't need to make this

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Speaker 6: a very drawn out segment, and we don't want to

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Speaker 6: cannibalize comments and thoughts that we might have later in

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Speaker 6: the year. And I think some of these movies, surely

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Speaker 6: some of these titles for both of us, are going

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Speaker 6: to make our end of year list. You also suggested,

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Speaker 6: and I don't know if you went this route, but

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Speaker 6: I ended up going this route. We may also feature

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Speaker 6: some other critical voices who have articulated out what makes

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Speaker 6: these movies really good. One other thing we decided to do.

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Speaker 6: I suggested this, and we're gonna try it. We're not

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Speaker 6: gonna rank them, We're just gonna go in whatever order

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Speaker 6: we desire, but it will culminate with the two films

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Speaker 6: we have in common. There's a lot of overlap so far.

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Speaker 6: I do know this. You'll hear this. I think as

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Speaker 6: we go through these choices, there is a fair amount

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Speaker 6: of overlap in terms of the movies that we were considering.

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Speaker 6: The movies we have maybe in our top ten or

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Speaker 6: fifteen so far, but in terms of our top fives,

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Speaker 6: we have two in common. So we are going to

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Speaker 6: build up to those top two. And I'll say this, Josh,

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Speaker 6: I think we could give listeners one hundred guesses and

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Speaker 6: they would never come up with this.

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Speaker 3: Combo, probably not given our history and our affinities. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that's fair.

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Speaker 6: Okay, start us off. What film are you going with first?

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Speaker 6: As one of your five favorite films of the year

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Speaker 6: so far?

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Speaker 3: Going to start with that title that hasn't come up

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Speaker 3: on the show at all, And it's also the title

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Speaker 3: that once I sat down and wrote about it extensively.

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Speaker 3: Did jump up to my number one slot of the

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Speaker 3: year so far. It is Universal Language. This is the

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Speaker 3: second feature film from rising Canadian director Matthew Rankin. I

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Speaker 3: did not see his debut the twentieth century, so we'll

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Speaker 3: have to make time for that at some point. But

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Speaker 3: Universal Language, which basically imagines in alternate Canada where the

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Speaker 3: Persian language is commonplace, so alongside English, alongside French. Basically

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Speaker 3: we follow a collection of Persian speaking characters through various

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Speaker 3: areas of Winnipeg. And interestingly, Winnipeg is also dotted with

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Speaker 3: signage that is in Persian too, so even Tim Horton's

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Speaker 3: exactly exactly and right now particularly worth noting Persian primarily

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Speaker 3: spoken in Iran, so some timeliness there. Now, there's just

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Speaker 3: to give you an idea of who we're following. There's

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Speaker 3: a pair of school age sisters who are attempting to

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Speaker 3: retrieve paper money that's been stuck in the ice. There's

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Speaker 3: a tour guide who's leading this disgruntled group across the

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Speaker 3: frozen landscape. And there's this disillusioned bureaucrat played by rank

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Speaker 3: and actually who's abruptly left his job in Quebec and

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Speaker 3: has come to Winnipeg to visit his mother. These are

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Speaker 3: lightly comic vignettes. I think you could describe them. They're

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Speaker 3: very the comedy is very dry. Inspired by the winter

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Speaker 3: air that you see here, I would say rank and

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Speaker 3: at least based on Universal Language is following the footsteps

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Speaker 3: of the Swedish filmmaker Roy Anderson, who films we have

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Speaker 3: talked about on the show, an American independent like Jim

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Speaker 3: Jarmusch a little bit. I also in the compositions, and

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Speaker 3: this idea of like a snow globe we're in Wes

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Speaker 3: Anderson came to mind. And then of course you have

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Speaker 3: to name check Guy Madden, right, who not only shares

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Speaker 3: the Winnipeg background, but I think also I haven't seen

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Speaker 3: a ton of Madden, but I think from what I

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Speaker 3: have seen, this inclination to experiment with, you know, what

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Speaker 3: a cinematic narrative can actually be. So I'm going to

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Speaker 3: leave it there because this is number one pretty much

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Speaker 3: guarantees a slot on my top ten at the end

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Speaker 3: of the year, when I hope to talk about what

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Speaker 3: makes Universal Language so special.

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Speaker 6: Some are Yeah, this was among the bits of homework

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Speaker 6: that I did and didn't make the cut for me,

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Speaker 6: but is in my top ten honorable mention and those

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Speaker 6: were all my touch tones as well. Definitely thought about

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Speaker 6: Roy Anderson, who was a significant part of a marathon

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Speaker 6: that we did a few years back. Jarmish, Yes, Guy

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Speaker 6: Madden with Winnipeg. One of the recurring jokes in the

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Speaker 6: film is every time Winnipeg is mentioned, they keep suggesting

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Speaker 6: that it's in Alberta, even though he keeps saying, no,

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Speaker 6: it's Manitoba. And that's never really resolved. And you're right.

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Speaker 6: I even did think about Wes Anderson in a couple

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Speaker 6: of specific instances with shots or just lines, even just

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Speaker 6: moments of humor that felt Andersonian one s not two

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Speaker 6: s's right. So I was thinking about all of those filmmakers.

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Speaker 6: But it certainly feels like Rankin is doing his own things.

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Speaker 6: And even though I get why you call them vignettes,

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Speaker 6: because especially early on, that's exactly what it feels like,

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Speaker 6: it feels like they are very much separate. And I

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Speaker 6: think that one of the strengths of this film. And

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Speaker 6: I don't think this is anything away, because you certainly

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Speaker 6: feel this or recognize the connection start to take hold

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Speaker 6: pretty early on, you start to see that there is

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Speaker 6: a connection, that there is connective tissue that is holding

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Speaker 6: all of these stories together, and I think that's where

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Speaker 6: it starts to really create some poignancy. So I'm with

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Speaker 6: you on recommending universal language. A movie maybe available VOD

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Speaker 6: across different platforms. I saw it on Canopy. I believe.

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Speaker 3: Okay, great, Yeah, the library online streaming service so perfect.

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Speaker 6: So the first one I'm going to mention is a

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Speaker 6: movie we have given a full review too, and quite recently.

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Speaker 6: I suppose I can say it's my number five choice.

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Speaker 6: I had four that for sure we're going to make

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Speaker 6: my list, and a lot of options contending for the

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Speaker 6: fifth slot. I ultimately went Believe it or Not with

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Speaker 6: Danny Boyles twenty eight years later, and this affords me

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Speaker 6: an opportunity for a quick correction Holmes Spotting Family discord.

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Speaker 6: This came up there A couple of users responded to

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Speaker 6: my point that the men in this village they leave

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Speaker 6: the island, it seems only to kill zombies and for

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Speaker 6: no other practical reason, or at least the practical reason

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Speaker 6: isn't the primary reason, And Joe Nielsen in the forum said,

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Speaker 6: correct me. If I'm misremembering, but don't. They cut to

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Speaker 6: a bunch of log trees at one point, and the

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Speaker 6: father even says something like this is why we come

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Speaker 6: out here, and Mac Johnson replied, yep, I think that's right.

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Speaker 6: They have excursions to the mainland for resources like timber

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Speaker 6: and need skilled hunters as protection. And I do remember

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Speaker 6: a line at one point. I remember that line about

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Speaker 6: hunters needing hunters, So I think Joe and Mac for that,

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Speaker 6: they do need to venture out this journey though, And

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Speaker 6: what Spike is ultimately being trained for certainly remains all

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Speaker 6: about killing, and that's what they're celebrating upon his return.

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Speaker 6: And for this show, this top five show, I looked

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Speaker 6: at David Erlock's B plus Indie Wire review and curiously,

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Speaker 6: Josh he commented, like we did, of course, on the

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Speaker 6: iPhone visual aesthetic, the lo fi kind of bullet time

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Speaker 6: zombie kill approach that Boyle took, and he responded to

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Speaker 6: it the complete opposite way that we did. He suggested

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Speaker 6: that Boyle actually ends up kind of fetishizing the zombie

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Speaker 6: kill shots. It emphasizes the coolness, Erlik says, the coolness

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Speaker 6: of each arrow to the neck. At the same time,

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Speaker 6: the story begins to suggest that the infected might not

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Speaker 6: be quite as mindless as they seem. We saw it differently,

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Speaker 6: But then he says, this what the approach sacrifices and

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Speaker 6: scares soon begins to make up for in that other,

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Speaker 6: weirder kind of tension. Indeed, and with more earnest grace

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Speaker 6: than any films have tried to humanize zombies before, echoing

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Speaker 6: a point I raise and we discussed during our conversation

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Speaker 6: twenty eight years later. Is increasingly preoccupied with the idea

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Speaker 6: that the difference between us and them is only a

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Speaker 6: matter of perspective. Honestly, I cringed at the movie's first

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Speaker 6: indications that it was going to explore how the effectedd

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Speaker 6: have evolved so boring, so far removed from the primitivism

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Speaker 6: of the original. But Garland's script iterates on that concept

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Speaker 6: in such radical and unexpected ways that I couldn't help

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Speaker 6: but surrender to its potential. That's a great way to

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Speaker 6: put it, I too, especially on further deeper contemplation of

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Speaker 6: the film. I surrendered. I surrendered to the potential ramifications

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Speaker 6: Josh that it raises. I surrendered to the potential I

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Speaker 6: see for the rest of the series, and I'm waving

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Speaker 6: the white flag so hard it surrendered that I am

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Speaker 6: proclaiming it one of my films of the year. Not

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Speaker 6: available vod or streaming yet, probably a couple months away,

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Speaker 6: still it's one that is still available in theaters twenty

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Speaker 6: eight years later.

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Speaker 3: Did not like it quite as much as you did,

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Speaker 3: so didn't crack my top five, probably probably not my

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Speaker 3: top ten either, But yeah, I loved what they were

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Speaker 3: attempting with the movies, just stuffed with ideas, all of

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Speaker 3: them and drinking. I wanted to since this is up

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Speaker 3: coming up again, there's something I meant to ask you

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Speaker 3: and didn't get a chance to. But in twenty eight

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Speaker 3: weeks later, which we did as a bonus episode, we

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Speaker 3: were wrong ones a bonus episode for our film spin

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Speaker 3: and family members. I think one of the hiccups you

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Speaker 3: talked about is the lack of logic to the kids

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Speaker 3: there going out into the into town unaccompanied, and that

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Speaker 3: whole sequence, did you because one hang up I had

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Speaker 3: here with twenty eight years later, and usually I let

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Speaker 3: this stuff go, but to me it was even more

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Speaker 3: egregious and again new film. I'll dance among the details here,

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Speaker 3: but more egregious the circumstances of Spike returning to the mainland.

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Speaker 3: Did that I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw to

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Speaker 3: the film, but did that trip you up at all?

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Speaker 3: Just because it was kind of a mirror to what

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Speaker 3: happened in twenty eight weeks?

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Speaker 6: It did? It did trip me up in the moment.

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Speaker 6: I had a similar response. I may have actually even

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Speaker 6: been sitting next to Film Spotting producer Sam van Halgren

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Speaker 6: and said, oh, so this is just going to be

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Speaker 6: a recurring thing with this series, right. But as I

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Speaker 6: watched the rest of the film, and certainly as I

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Speaker 6: thought about it more and how I tied that decision

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Speaker 6: to the larger ideas of the film, I didn't see

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Speaker 6: it as egregious. That's why I'll put it idly see

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Speaker 6: it as egregious.

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Speaker 3: I mean I let it go in weeks, so you

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Speaker 3: should be able to let it go in years.

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Speaker 6: All right, let's get to your next pick.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go with one of them days, which

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Speaker 3: speaking of the Film Spotting family, this came up briefly

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Speaker 3: because our recent bonus episode was on our top five

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Speaker 3: performances of the year so far, and I talked about

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Speaker 3: Keki Palmer raved about Kiki Palmer there here in one

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Speaker 3: of them Days. She plays Drew, this hard working la

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Speaker 3: waitress who is struggling to make ends meet no matter

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Speaker 3: how many hours she puts in. And yeah, absolutely Palmer

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Speaker 3: is the anchor of the film, but she's not the

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Speaker 3: only reason the movie is on my top five list

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Speaker 3: of the year so far. She's the steady pro who's

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Speaker 3: making space for Sissa in her acting debut here as

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Speaker 3: Drew's roommate Alyssa. These two together are just comic magic.

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Speaker 3: They have these rat tat tat exchanges you can barely

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Speaker 3: keep up with, but if you can follow them, there's

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Speaker 3: a laugh every time they're turning to each other and

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Speaker 3: saying something.

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Speaker 7: For real, I am sorry. I wasn't trying to be.

434
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 5: Because actually you're on time.

435
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 10: I got off at seven, I got you good.

436
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 2: And I still got you this.

437
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 8: Yes, And I really shouldn't have done it because you're

438
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 8: gonna blow up the bad doing.

439
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 7: But don't worry about me. I'll be fine. Two kisses

440
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 7: up to God, and I'm the trses that have to

441
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 7: do with.

442
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 3: Your Stomachus is not God Hills All things girl, you electors.

443
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: What I like about their dynamic is it. It reveals

444
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: that these two characters, Jreunalissa have a shared understanding of

445
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 3: a couple of things each other, who they are as people,

446
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: the community they're in, and then the larger world around them.

447
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: And then this ties to the plot how the economy

448
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: has been basically arranged against them. And so there is

449
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 3: some sly social commentary here in one of them days,

450
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 3: I think I love Kat Williams as this this profit

451
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: of sorts who just hangs out lucky around the painting.

452
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 3: Don't do it.

453
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 6: It's a trap.

454
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 10: You want alone.

455
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 6: If you don't have the money this month, you're not

456
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 6: gonna have it next month. Your my credit score is.

457
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: Currently a little beyond those social commentary little jabs and nuggets.

458
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: I think this is just consistently hilarious. So there is

459
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: more to praise here that I'll hold off on just

460
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: in case one of them days. I've got it right

461
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: now slotted at number five. So depending on how great

462
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 3: you know, the next couple of months are, it could

463
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 3: fall off the top ten. But just in case it

464
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 3: sticks around, I'll say more later.

465
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, one of them days, for me, this will be

466
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 6: the choice of yours that I say, I just like

467
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 6: I like One of Them Days. I definitely think it's

468
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 6: worth seeing, and I definitely think it's worth seeing for

469
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 6: those performances, especially Keeki Palmer, who is just undeniably a

470
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 6: movie star and a great actress. It felt to me,

471
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 6: even with its its satirical elements and with its humor

472
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 6: and with enough little spins it puts on the formula,

473
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 6: it's just formulaic enough. It hits all the familiar beats

474
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 6: you know exactly it's going to hit, and it hits

475
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 6: them precisely the moments you know it's going to hit them.

476
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 6: That it didn't wow me maybe the way it did you.

477
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 6: But again, those performances are great, and it is a

478
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 6: very funny movie. So One of Them Days is a

479
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 6: movie I also recommend. I think you said this, or

480
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 6: if you didn't, I'll reiterate on Netflix.

481
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: There you go, right therefore, Okay.

482
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 6: My next choice is another one we gave a review to,

483
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 6: and another one that you liked. You like this one

484
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 6: more than twenty eight years later, but another film that

485
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 6: you felt was maybe too stuffed with ideas, and it's

486
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 6: Ryan Kugler's Sinners, the number one choice of the majority

487
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 6: of our listeners. The headline to Angelica Jade Bastien's Vulture

488
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 6: review is Sinners is bold, ambitious, and just misses greatness.

489
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 6: Just missing greatness isn't something I'm going to quibble with,

490
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 6: because the boldness and the ambitiousness are so great that

491
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 6: while you can talk about the different genres and traditions

492
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 6: that Sinners draws from, which we did to some extent

493
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 6: in our review, what can you actually compare Sinners to

494
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 6: Sinners feels singular and distinct from Coogler's other work On Letterbox,

495
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 6: Angelica says it doesn't cohere, and I found the horror

496
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 6: lacking of visceral quality it needed. But the film was

497
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 6: bristling with rich ideas, dynamic performances, and one musical sequence

498
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 6: that delineates the lineage of black music that touches cinematic transcendence.

499
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 6: I don't have strong thoughts on the visceral quality of

500
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 6: the horror, but we agree on the coherence. I brought

501
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 6: that up. She's specifically referring to the scripts. She phrases

502
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 6: it the script's inability to cohere once the true action

503
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 6: is underway. I mentioned that I think once all hell

504
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 6: breaks loose, then there is a lack of clarity when

505
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 6: it comes to how all of that is stage That

506
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 6: was really my only, or at least my primary hang

507
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 6: up with the film. But she says, it's a film

508
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 6: that got under my skin and continues to haunt my imagination,

509
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 6: and I get that. I felt similarly when you can

510
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 6: talk about a movie Josh haunting her imagination, bristling with

511
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 6: rich ideas and having dynamic performances, and this one certainly does.

512
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 6: Speaking of our bonus show that you mentioned our performances

513
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 6: of the year Family episode, I singled out as you

514
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 6: did one me Mosaku. I also talked about Hailey Steinfeld,

515
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 6: Michael b Jordan, Delray Lindo, who has to be a

516
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 6: Locke for a Best Supporting Actor nomination. All of that's significant,

517
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 6: and I do share, obviously all those sentiments, including sharing

518
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 6: the sentiment about that musical sequence at the core of

519
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 6: the movie that she says touches cinematic transcendence. That is

520
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 6: just one sequence, but that is the appropriate register to

521
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 6: be in that I think the movie demands you to

522
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 6: be in when you're trying to describe what Coogler is

523
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 6: reaching for with Sinners, and more often than not, what

524
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 6: he achieves or comes close to achieving with sinners, and

525
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 6: I'm rewarding him for that. That's why it's on my list.

526
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 7: You keep dancing with the devil, one day he is

527
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 7: going to follow you home.

528
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I'm with Angelica on the just missing greatness.

529
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: I've got it on my top ten so far. It's

530
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: at I think at number eight. It's a It's a

531
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: can't miss film of the year, absolutely, and you know

532
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: you're right in that. It's hard to say what movie

533
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 3: is this like? But I do want to just throw

534
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 3: out there, and I think I might have mentioned this

535
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: at some point, not in our review proper, but at

536
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: some other point. Two thousand and six is Idlewild, just

537
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: because it's a movie I love that has kind of

538
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: gotten forgotten to history. It's a period musical featuring the

539
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: hip hop dual Outcast and set in nineteen thirties Georgia,

540
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: and it speak easy, so doesn't have that horror element

541
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: at all.

542
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 6: The narrative empires.

543
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: There are no vampires, so maybe maybe a few less

544
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: swings than Coogler takes, but man, the effervescent spirit, the

545
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: musicality definitely it shares in commons. So a great overlooked

546
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: movie to catch up on Idlewild if you are as

547
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 3: we are big fans of Sinners.

548
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 6: Sinners available vod if you haven't seen it yet.

549
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: All right, let's go with my number two of the

550
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: year so far, and this is one we didn't review together,

551
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 3: but I did talk about on the show earlier. It

552
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: is a Golden Brick nominee at this point, and it's

553
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: Grand Theft Hamlet. This is the documentary consisting entirely of

554
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: footage from inside Grand Theft Auto Online, the open world

555
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: video game. Basically, during the pandemic, two out of work

556
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: actors in the UK, Sam Crane, Mark Ostervin, they came

557
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: up with this idea to put on a version of

558
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: Hamlet right within the game. So they held auditions with

559
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 3: other players strangers, they led rehearsals, and then they allultimately

560
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: did stage a complete performance.

561
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 5: We are putting on a production of Hamlet, did GTA

562
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 5: online for the first time ever.

563
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 11: We are looking for actors.

564
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 7: So I'm an audition.

565
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: Please try to stop us.

566
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 9: Stop.

567
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: Oh they got me. I didn't know what to expect

568
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: going into this. Adam kind of just checked it out

569
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: out of pure curiosity and figured it'd be something an

570
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: experiment that maybe I thought was interesting and then forgot.

571
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: This thing renewed my faith in humanity, just the sense

572
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: of community and camaraderie that was able to be formed

573
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 3: within this online context. So I'm going to go with

574
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: a quote from a critic here to bolster my pick.

575
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 3: It's from the great Amy Nicholson. She's got a wonderful

576
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: review of Grand Theft Hamlet in the Los Angeles Times,

577
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: and she did touch on one of the things I

578
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: appreciated about the way the doc merges high art and

579
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: low art. So here's here's Amy Nicholson paired alongside Shakespeare's

580
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: lines about grunting and sweating under a weary life. Even

581
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: the non playable background extras seem imbued with a soul.

582
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: And so yeah, there is one There is one scene

583
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: in particular that captures that. That was where I was like,

584
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: am I really responding to this movie the way I

585
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: feel like I'm responding? And yeah, it was a powerful watch.

586
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: If you have not seen Grand Theft Hamlet and you're

587
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 3: a movie subscriber, you're lucky because it's streaming there right now.

588
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 6: And I think it's worth pointing out if you are

589
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 6: an Amazon Prime number, there may be other ways but

590
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 6: if you're an Amazon Prime number, you can start your

591
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 6: movie subscription with a seven day trial, So that's another

592
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 6: way to see Grand Theft Hamlet. That is another film

593
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 6: that I saw in preparation for this list and kind

594
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 6: of just miss my list. Josh, It's in my top ten,

595
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 6: so an honorable mention.

596
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was curious to hear what you thought of it.

597
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 6: It's a must it's a must see film of the year,

598
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 6: and it does have contenders for some of the most

599
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 6: moving moments of the year. But there are certainly going

600
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 6: to be one or two contenders for funniest moments of

601
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 6: the year from this film, and I didn't expect I

602
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 6: maybe didn't expect either of those that it would be

603
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 6: as funny or as moving as it is. But just

604
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 6: in terms of the artistry, the potential artistry of the

605
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 6: world that's created, and the control that the artists have,

606
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 6: that the filmmakers have over that world and what they

607
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 6: could stage, what they could actually control within the world

608
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 6: staging this play really kind of astounded me.

609
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, good, I'm so glad you had that reaction. And

610
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: to that point about control and how they formed this material,

611
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: I should note that Crane's partner of filmmaker Penny Grills

612
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 3: joined them in the game as a character, and then

613
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 3: her avatar basically recorded a lot of that footage. So

614
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 3: she's definitely a crucial creat component to Grand Theft Hamlet.

615
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 6: Okay, my next pick is a film that you recommended

616
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 6: previously on the show, but I hadn't seen it at

617
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 6: that point, so we didn't get to have a full

618
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 6: discussion about it. And I know, you know, coming off

619
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 6: what I just said about Sinners, if you call too

620
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 6: many things singular, it loses its meaning or weakens it's meaning, certainly,

621
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 6: But what else Josh is like vulcan Issidora the new film,

622
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 6: the latest film from Joel petrichis And I know from

623
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 6: our bonus show, the Family Bonus Show, that some people

624
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 6: didn't really understand what I was saying. Vulcan. It's one word, Vulcan,

625
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 6: like spock v U l C A N. And then

626
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 6: Isidora is z A d O r A vulcan E'sidora

627
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 6: or you can look up Joel patrichis p O t

628
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 6: R y kus. We talked about his film. I think

629
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 6: he was a Golden Brick contender for Buzzard back in

630
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 6: twenty fourteen. Yes, this movie could go on a list

631
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 6: with movies like Kelly Reikert's Old Joy, even maybe Good

632
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 6: one from last year, which was a top ten movie

633
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 6: for you movies. There are others men on camping trips,

634
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 6: struggling to connect as friends or find meaning in their lives.

635
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 6: At least you think that's what this movie might be

636
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 6: before you realize that you just have to give yourself

637
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 6: over to Petrychis and let the writer director be your

638
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 6: twisted guide on this mysterious journey through a Michigan forest,

639
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 6: following these guys as they carry out some kind of

640
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 6: packed and Patrychis here is not just a writer director.

641
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 6: He is also co starring along with Joshua Burge, who

642
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 6: was the star of twenty fourteen's Buzzer. This is in

643
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 6: that same universe. Burge is playing the same character he

644
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 6: played then, Marty Jacketanski. Petrycas is playing the same character

645
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 6: he played in Buzzer, Derek, though I think a much

646
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 6: small I can't remember, I'll admit from Buzzard it's been

647
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 6: a long time. The chances of either actor getting any

648
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 6: attention from critics or awards groups at the end of

649
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 6: the year is nil. Which I think is unfortunate because

650
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 6: the tightrope walk of annoying energy and fearful anxiety that

651
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 6: Petrychis performs is so good, and it's matched by Burges's

652
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 6: alienation and pain.

653
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: You still owe me money for what I paid your

654
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 3: bail that was seven hundred bucks and said, you pay

655
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: me back and if you don't go to your court thing,

656
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna get that back.

657
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 6: Well I'm not going to court.

658
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: Well, then you owe me money. Man, you don't get it.

659
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: The money doesn't matter anymore. The Jaeger Grail doesn't matter anymore.

660
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 6: Nothing matters anymore.

661
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 3: I know that.

662
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 7: Still seven hundred bucks.

663
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 6: Though Bulcanesidora is at times discomfitingly hilarious but also deeply affecting,

664
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 6: This is a fundamentally sad, sad movie, and I mean

665
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 6: that as a compliment. You actually, Josh, have the second

666
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 6: highest score for this movie your review on Metacritic. So

667
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 6: I decided to ignore you and go to the one

668
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 6: above it, pulling from the New York Times to validate

669
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 6: my take. I think this is Jeanette Ketsulis. When everyone

670
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 6: thinks you're a no count, then nothing you do can

671
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 6: ever count. Patrichis, though an inveterate hand to mouth practitioner,

672
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 6: persists in treating the lost and the left behind as

673
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 6: if they matter, and his signature empathy is pronounced here

674
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 6: spasmodically funny. The hardly a comedy, Vulcani Zadora is raw,

675
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 6: moving and briefly horrifying, and honestly it had me. It

676
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 6: had me from the opening shot of the two guys

677
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 6: just walking down the road heading off to the forest,

678
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 6: walking to death metal. I was like, I'm in.

679
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: I'm sure, I mean death metal and you're already you know,

680
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: you already saw Yeah.

681
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 6: I love obviously, I love this film, and actually I

682
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 6: have this as my number one film of the year

683
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 6: right now. I think it's that good. I really hope

684
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 6: people seek it out. And I think when they hear

685
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 6: things like sad, and they hear things like briefly horrifying,

686
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 6: there may be going to be a little bit put off.

687
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 6: I was a little bit nervous going into the theater

688
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 6: to watch it after hearing you talk about it on

689
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 6: the show. The disturbing element to it just is not

690
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 6: as disturbing as I feared it would be, at least

691
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 6: my expectation going in it's not. It's not a Saw movie.

692
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 6: It's not a movie that's going to overwhelm you with

693
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 6: something grotesque. Sure it's not, but it is it is

694
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 6: going to ask you to invest in something that is

695
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 6: that is a little bit hard to consider. That's the

696
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 6: way I'll put it. But it is a very smart

697
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 6: movie and it is, as I said, a very sad movie,

698
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 6: but in a very mature way, in an a poignant way.

699
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 6: And I just really hope more people will give this

700
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 6: movie a look.

701
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: Josh Well, in the most disturbing element, which we won't spoil,

702
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 3: I would describe it's not the point of the film.

703
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: It's the folkrum. And I think that's part of the

704
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: reason why you know it's distinct from something like a

705
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: Saw movie, is it's not why we're there. And you know,

706
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: I probably mentioned this when I did review it, but

707
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: just to your point about how rough of a watch

708
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 3: is it, I do think I wrote about it as

709
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: outsider cinema, and by that I mean it's not a

710
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: cinema about outsiders, which may be buzzard. I would have

711
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: described as the first time we met this Joshua Bird character,

712
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: Marty Jacketanski, you know, following this guy who seems on

713
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 3: the margins of society in aggressive ways. Vulcan Esadora doubles

714
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 3: down on that to become not about outsiders, but in

715
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 3: outsider work. Because the movie itself is pugnacious. It's it's

716
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: these are This is a movie that's understandably ostracized. Maybe

717
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: that's why it's not getting as many viewers or as

718
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: much praise as it deserves. But if it were any

719
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: less accommodating, it wouldn't be itself. And so yeah, but

720
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 3: it is worth pushing through the hesitation that listeners might have.

721
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 3: Absolutely I agree with you there. It's on my top

722
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 3: ten of the year so far.

723
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 6: Right now, well, let's get then to our final two choices.

724
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 6: These are our two shared choices, and Josh, you can

725
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 6: take your pick. Which one do you want to start with?

726
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: So let's start with Black Bag. You know, Steven Soderberg's

727
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 3: marriage minded spyflick. It got a full review on the show, Adam,

728
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: but I was raving about it without you, the Sodaberg

729
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: fan on this show. I did go into my reasons

730
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: in detail. Had a good conversation with guest co host

731
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: Roxanna Hadadi, a Vulture. All that's to say, I've been

732
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: waiting for this episode because I want to hear in full.

733
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: We've touched on Black Bag and Passing. I know you

734
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: like it, but I want to hear a little bit

735
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 3: more about you know what you like about this one.

736
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 3: I said, this was the most excited I've been about

737
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 3: a Soderberg movie in thirteen years and took me back

738
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: to like Magic. Mike, just describe myself as a Sodaberg normy.

739
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 3: You know, his more mainstream stuff is what I tend

740
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 3: to go for, and this is definitely in that vein.

741
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: But yeah, as I said, you're much more of the

742
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: Sodaburg devotee than I am. I know you're a fan

743
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 3: of Black Bag, tell me more and just tell me

744
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 3: kind of where it does rink among his work for you.

745
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 6: It hasn't even been a great year. It's been a

746
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 6: great half year for us Sodaberg heads, the truly committed

747
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 6: we never gave up hope and he's delivered too. I think,

748
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 6: two really wonderful films.

749
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: I am a fan of Presence as well.

750
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, in this first half of the year. And

751
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 6: how about David Kep writing the screenplay for Backbag Redemption

752
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 6: I'm going to say a bigger I'm a bigger fan

753
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 6: of this script than I am of the last film

754
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 6: of his we discussed, which was Jurassic Park Rebirth.

755
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 3: Oh last on a winning streak. As far as I'm concerned.

756
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 6: I know, I know this is a legitimately sexy film,

757
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 6: and I was gonna say despite, but I know you've

758
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 6: got a great line here, maybe because of how monogamous

759
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 6: the central couple is. And as one of my favorite,

760
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 6: well maybe my favorite character in the film, as Clarissa says,

761
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 6: my god, that's hot, and there are those moments that

762
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 6: really sizzle in the movie, Marisa Abela gives one of

763
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 6: my favorite scene stealing turns of the year. It's sexy,

764
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 6: it's sleek, it's suspenseful, Monica Castillo. She sums it up

765
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 6: nicely in her four star review for Roger Ebert dot Com,

766
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 6: and she makes a connection that perhaps helps explain why

767
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 6: I went so hard for this movie. She says, in

768
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 6: a spiritual sense, Black Bag shares some DNA with the

769
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 6: simmering tension of Soderbrook's excellent romantic crime drama Out of Sight,

770
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 6: in which a US federal marshall Jennifer Lopez falls under

771
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 6: the spell Wayward Criminal with the Heart of Gold George Clooney.

772
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 6: But in Black Bag, the sexual chemistry between Fastbender and

773
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 6: Blanchette feels like a tango, smooth and sharp, gliding across

774
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 6: the floor with nothing to break the concentration on each

775
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 6: other's eyes. Yet the speed of the dialogue feels closer

776
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 6: to that of a screwball comedy. Every conversation is a

777
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 6: test of wills and smarts, a tennis match between players

778
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 6: who think they're each at the top of their game,

779
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 6: but as we've seen many times, only one player goes

780
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 6: home the winner.

781
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: Have you ever physically assaulted a significant other during an argument?

782
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 5: Oh?

783
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 8: You know?

784
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 10: I have?

785
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: Again? Yes or no?

786
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 6: Yes, enthusiastically every scene in this film, Josh opens up

787
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 6: new layers, new possibilities. And I don't know how many

788
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 6: films in the espionage genre you can say this about.

789
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 6: It's more coward than La Car A Black Bag favors

790
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 6: penetrating parlor conversations, over rousing car chase and exotic covert operations.

791
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 6: Think about it. Any scene you might consider a set

792
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 6: piece in this film, or if I just asked you

793
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 6: give me your top three or four favorite slash most

794
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 6: exciting scenes in this film, I guarantee you, and if

795
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 6: we pulled most people who have seen this film, there's

796
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 6: really nothing else to consider. All the choices would be

797
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 6: two or more people in a room with at least

798
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 6: one table and people sitting around them. Right, there's in

799
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 6: terms of conventional spy stuff. Right, there's like one handoff,

800
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 6: which is pretty brief and I don't recall exactly, but

801
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 6: we might only experience that head off through a screen.

802
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 6: I don't know if we actually even ever see it

803
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 6: or experience it the way the characters actually do were

804
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 6: detached through that screen. So there's none of that conventional

805
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 6: spy stuff. It is all like parlor drama conversations and

806
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 6: yet riveting MH.

807
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 3: Scene of the year stuff. One of those conversations, as

808
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 3: far as I'm concerned. So where does it land? Is

809
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,479
Speaker 3: it like top tier? Would you say it's top tier?

810
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 6: Oh? You know you're asking me that, And maybe you

811
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 6: can vamp a little bit or give me some more

812
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 6: of your thoughts on it while I look it up,

813
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 6: because I do think that I added it to my

814
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 6: Soderberg ranked list, and I'm fairly high. But Soderbergh for

815
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 6: me is I don't. I don't put him in the

816
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 6: same category or hold him in the same esteem as

817
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 6: the Kohen brothers, but I do like so many of

818
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 6: his films that I wouldn't be surprised if I have

819
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 6: Black Bag in like eleventh place, Josh, but I still

820
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 6: really like it.

821
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: I guess that's why I asked the tier question, like,

822
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: you know, do you do you consider it like in

823
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 3: that upper tier? Is it like the one right below it?

824
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: Because yeah, the Cohen's or you know, Pta or Wes

825
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 3: Anderson are similar examples where there's like the masterpiece tier

826
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: and then there's the great films tier. So yeah, for me,

827
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: I mean it goes back to my e my idea

828
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: of me being a Soderberg normy, like I really go

829
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: for something like Contagion or even Solaris, which I know

830
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 3: is a remake of Tarkovski but is also a George

831
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: Clooney space vehicle, and the other stuff of his that

832
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 3: I really really like is the more conventional stuff, even

833
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: though overall I like his films, like I'm overall positive

834
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: on him, but yeah, this is definitely top tier for me.

835
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm looking at my list. It turns out I

836
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: haven't updated it. It would definitely be at minimum, it

837
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 6: would be in twelfth place because right now I have

838
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 6: his twenty twenty two film Kimmy in twelfth place, and

839
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 6: I like black Bag more than Kimmy, and I liked

840
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 6: Kimmy a fair amount, but I do like black Bag more.

841
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 6: So then it would be a conversation a contest between

842
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 6: Black Bag and the first Magic Mic from twenty twelve

843
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 6: for that eleventh spot right there. So we're getting into

844
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 6: some good territory. Whensoutely looking at that top eleven, I've

845
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 6: got some masterpieces out of Sight Traffic Solaris or masterpiece

846
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 6: adjacent Traffic Solaris, Sexualize and Videotape, the Limey Oceans eleven.

847
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 6: That's that top five.

848
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's not there. It's not about top five. Out

849
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: of Sight for me is in its own category, and

850
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: Black Bag is the one right below that. So really

851
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 3: really good film.

852
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 6: I'm not quite willing to go there, but it's certainly

853
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 6: hovering right around that top ten. So let's get to

854
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 6: the other film that we have in common. We believe

855
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 6: it is one of the top five films of the

856
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 6: year so far. I said no one would come up

857
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 6: with this combo of black bag in this movie, partly

858
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,720
Speaker 6: because they definitely haven't heard me talk about this movie,

859
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 6: and as we're recording this anyway, I haven't even logged

860
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 6: it on letterbox. So people who are really paying attention

861
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 6: to our comings and goings as far as viewing, would

862
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 6: not expect me to have put this movie on the list.

863
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 6: But I saw this film and obviously was pretty blown away.

864
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 3: On becoming a guinea foul. I am so glad it

865
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 3: worked for you as well as it did for me. Adam,

866
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: I've got I've got it write at number three, so

867
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 3: behind Universal Language and Grand Theft Hamlet, but right up

868
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: there as one of the best of the year. What'd

869
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 3: you love about it?

870
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 6: Well, first I did, after the fact, of course, go

871
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 6: to my notes from I Am Not a Witch, which

872
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 6: was part of a marathon a few years ago, Rangano

873
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 6: Nioni's debut film, and it's not a film I remember vividly,

874
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 6: I remember quite liking. And then you look at the

875
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 6: notes and you see things like the main character named Shula,

876
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 6: and you see bodies, dead bodies, and you see police involvement,

877
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 6: and I see things in my notes like stuck in

878
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 6: the past, progress stunted, wrestling with modernity, wrestling with identity, oppression,

879
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 6: blame for your troubles. And then I also see a

880
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 6: character described you know, power that comes from her stillness,

881
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 6: and I'm like, okay, So there are definitely some connections

882
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 6: between these two films. And I know you talked about

883
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 6: Susan Chardie, who is the lead in this film, when

884
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 6: we were talking about our performances in that bonus content.

885
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 6: She went right to the top, Josh, of my best

886
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 6: actress list. And it is a performance where she starts

887
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 6: the film very detached, disconnected. You don't know why. I

888
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 6: could see some people watching the performance and thinking it

889
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 6: isn't giving you much. I think what is under the

890
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 6: surface is always there. It feels like a very smart

891
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 6: and a very emotional performance, even when it doesn't seem

892
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 6: to be the case that she is giving you a lot.

893
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 6: I think she's always giving you something behind those eyes

894
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 6: and that face again, even when she's just being very,

895
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 6: very still. And this is an debut, we should note,

896
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 6: is it really Oh?

897
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 3: I didn't know astonishing for that right.

898
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 6: And I'll throw it back to you here. But the

899
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 6: way I thought about this film, the reason why it

900
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 6: had to be in my top five is other than

901
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 6: maybe Soderberg working in a very different milieu and having

902
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 6: so much more practice at this, if you will, I

903
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 6: didn't have another film this year where I felt that

904
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 6: the director was more assured and more confident in their vision,

905
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 6: or I.

906
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: Couldn't see that. I mean, you could say Kogler, except

907
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: at least to my eyes, it's almost like his ambition

908
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 3: was so clearly. He's a director capable of control, but

909
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: his ambition is almost too went beyond the control. But yeah,

910
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 3: I would agree Niona here, like every frame is doing

911
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: exactly what she wants it to do and serving exactly

912
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: the ideas that her movie contains.

913
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, the intentionality of those choices, the motivation behind

914
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 6: when she's handheld versus static shots, it's not like it

915
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 6: has one consistent esthetic, nor does it need to. There's

916
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 6: handheld there's static shots, there's low angles, there's eye level shots.

917
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 6: Sometimes very occasionally there's jump cuts and they're very effective.

918
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 6: Sometimes there's longer takes. Sometimes she uses the score to

919
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 6: raise tensions. Sometimes sometimes even there's terror, legitimate sort of

920
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 6: terror in a scene that the score amplifies. And then

921
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 6: there are other moments and this is another connection, though

922
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 6: it's not as pronounced. Another connection to I am not

923
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 6: a witch. There are moments of fantasy and flashback or

924
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 6: a sort of dream like reality that push their way

925
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 6: into reality. On becoming a guinea fowl is a reckoning

926
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 6: and none proves to be a force as a filmmaker.

927
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. To add to the praise, I looked up some

928
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 3: reviews and want to quote here our friend Robert Daniels,

929
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: critic here in Chicago, who reviewed the movie out of

930
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: can actually for rogeriebert dot com. He called it a

931
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 3: magically transcendent, cunningly funny, and a resting piece of cultural

932
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: commentary that pits the inequalities of tradition against the warmth

933
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 3: community can still on occasions provide. And I think Robert

934
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: captures the ambivalence experienced by the main character in those words.

935
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: So really glad you went for this one as much

936
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: as I did. It looks like if you have a

937
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: Max subscription you can watch it there. Otherwise it is

938
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 3: available for rent on a variety of other streaming platforms.

939
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know if we totally pulled off being

940
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 6: concise those are I.

941
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 3: Think we did better than a full standard top five.

942
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, a little better. Those are our top five

943
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 6: films of the year so far. If you would like

944
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 6: to see that full list, you can view it at

945
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 6: film spotting dot net slash lists. Josh, we have both

946
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 6: given a few titles sprinkled throughout that are honorable mentions.

947
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 6: Do you want to reiterate those titles and any others

948
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 6: that we haven't thrown out?

949
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just give you a countdown here and I'll

950
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 3: start at number one with the ones we've already talked

951
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 3: about Universal Language in the top spot. Then Grand Theft Hamlet,

952
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 3: followed by On Becoming a Guinea Foul black Bag at

953
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 3: number four, and One of Them Days at number five.

954
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 3: So a couple titles that have come up and some

955
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: that haven't at number six Mickey seventeen. I am a

956
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 3: big fan of the Bong Juneo film from this year,

957
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: Sorry Baby, which is another Golden Brick nominee we recently discussed.

958
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: Sinners is at eight, Volcani Zadora is at nine and

959
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 3: hanging on there Adam the ten slot. Megan two point zero.

960
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 3: I had so much fun with that movie.

961
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 6: So in my six through ten no ranking, hear the

962
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 6: ones that have been mentioned. Grand Theft Hamlet, presence, universal language.

963
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 6: The two that haven't been mentioned on a recent show,

964
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 6: maybe the twenty eight years later show I sang the

965
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 6: praises of Alex Ross Perry's quite ambitious documentary about the

966
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 6: band Pavement. It's called Pavements and a film. This is

967
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 6: another one that really has grown the more I've thought

968
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 6: about it, And after I watched it, I almost couldn't

969
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 6: fall asleep because I kept thinking about it. Moments, motivations,

970
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 6: just the mysteries of this film. Miseracordia Josh is a

971
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 6: fascinating film from the director of Stranger by the Lake,

972
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 6: which we might have given a few minutes too, I

973
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 6: remember liking. Otherwise, definitely haven't seen all of his work,

974
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 6: but a film that I do encourage people to see.

975
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 6: So that rounds out my list my honorable mentions of

976
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 6: the films of the year so far. Again, you can

977
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 6: check out all those picks at filmspotting dot net slash lists.

978
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 3: Listening is the number one thing you can do to

979
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: support an independently produced show like ours. A couple more

980
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 3: things you can do. Take a minute to give us

981
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You

982
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 3: can do this even if you're brand new to the show,

983
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 3: share your first impressions, or if you've been around for

984
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 3: twenty years, why haven't you done this yet? Every new

985
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: review does help us reach new listeners. So this is

986
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 3: usually the spot where we feature a member of the

987
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 3: film Spotting family. But this week we're going to share

988
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 3: a couple of voice messages that listeners submitted ahead of

989
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: film Spotting fests. That was back in March, and we

990
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: want to highlight a few of these. Over the course

991
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: of our twentieth anniversary year, we did offer a few

992
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: potential prompts relationship with the show, Favorite episode, Favorite Memory.

993
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 3: Here are a couple of longtime listeners and their messages.

994
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 9: I have think Spotting congratulation for twenty years of word podcasting.

995
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 9: This is awful. Liber Gal from tele listening since twenty sixteen.

996
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 9: You know around there, life can sometime be like a

997
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 9: film Spotting pool. Deeply flawed, call impassable, and the vote

998
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 9: goes the wrong way. But even if I feel isolated

999
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 9: from the situation and the people around me, I know

1000
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 9: I will feel it home when I would listen to

1001
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 9: your podcast. For me, film Spotting is not just great

1002
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 9: film criticism. It's also values because to its conversation you

1003
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 9: bring kindness, respect and trying to understand the other point

1004
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 9: of view even if you disagree, even if you don't

1005
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 9: like the movies. Thank you for that and for everything

1006
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 9: you do.

1007
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 10: Hello, Film Spotting twentieth This is Ben Kohler coming to

1008
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 10: you from a parking lot in New Jersey. And even

1009
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 10: though I'm from New Jersey, i am perhaps more notorious

1010
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 10: as a member of the New York Trivius Spotting Mafia.

1011
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 10: And I want to say thank you, thank you, thank you,

1012
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 10: thank you. For eighteen years, I've been listening to you

1013
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 10: guys since two thousand and seven. The Across the Universe

1014
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 10: episode was my first episode when I was thirteen years old,

1015
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 10: and I am now soon to be thirty one years old.

1016
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 10: You guys are one of the more consistent relationships in

1017
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 10: my life over that time period, and I want to

1018
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 10: thank you, of course for all the unbelievable insightful film

1019
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 10: content in the last eighteen years, but maybe most importantly,

1020
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 10: my favorite film spotting memory thing whatever is that you guys,

1021
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 10: through Trivia Spotting specifically, were the catalyst for me meeting

1022
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 10: some of my best friends in the entire world. Talking

1023
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 10: about the CFFS in New York, as well as people

1024
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 10: from Chicago, people from New England, people out in La

1025
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 10: you guys as well. Getting to meet you guys a

1026
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 10: few times has been amazing.

1027
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 7: I feel so.

1028
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 10: Lucky to count you guys as people that I'm knowing

1029
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 10: in my life as post just listening to. I want

1030
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 10: to thank you for all that, as well as a

1031
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 10: great film content. In the last eighteen years, you have

1032
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 10: taught me to see other people's points, which I've been

1033
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 10: always uh usually wicked as good at him. Thank you

1034
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 10: guys so much. Here's the twenty more years. The world

1035
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 10: may crumble, but film Spotting will live.

1036
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 6: Ben Kohler a listener we know very well from Trivia Spotting,

1037
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 6: and also I've had many in person meetings. Not only

1038
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 6: is he mentioned at some different festivals or some different

1039
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 6: live shows and meetups over the years, but also from

1040
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 6: Trivia Spotting. And then oh for Josh is someone we

1041
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 6: feel like we know very well from all those virtual

1042
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 6: events like Trivia Spotting.

1043
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 3: Which for him I believe is taking place in the

1044
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 3: middle of the night or close to the end.

1045
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, in the early hours of the morning.

1046
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 3: It's crease there quite often.

1047
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, and how about the phrasing they're talking about you

1048
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 6: know where he's living, and it can feel deeply flawed,

1049
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 6: like a Film Spotting poll. The talking about what he

1050
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 6: values about the show, just wonderful stuff. Thank you so

1051
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 6: much for taking the time over and for valuing the

1052
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 6: show the way you do. It does mean a lot

1053
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 6: to us. Ben of course a member of the Trivia

1054
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 6: Spotting Mafia. Ben of course a member of the Trivia

1055
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 6: Spotting New York Mafia, as he noted. And the cff's there.

1056
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 6: That's a reference to the Kohler family friends as they

1057
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 6: refer to themselves. That's an inside joke there, and Ben

1058
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 6: had some kind words as well. We'll feature a few

1059
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 6: more of those over the coming weeks. In addition to

1060
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 6: keeping us doing what we're doing, your support comes with perks.

1061
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 6: You get to listen early in ad free, you get

1062
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 6: our weekly newsletter, you get exclusive opportunities, including being part

1063
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 6: of the Film Spotting Family discord such a great group

1064
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 6: over there, and you get our monthly bonus shows. In

1065
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 6: June we referenced it a ton during the top five

1066
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 6: Right performances of the year so far, some extra content,

1067
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 6: and in July we are going to do another installment

1068
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 6: of We Were Wrong Once some Cone Brothers action, a

1069
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 6: movie I have referenced multiple times over the past five

1070
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 6: or ten years. Movie I have said I badly need

1071
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 6: to revisit and reappraise because I was not a big

1072
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 6: fan of it, and it is Josh one of only

1073
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 6: two Cone Brothers films. Now I do have one Cone

1074
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 6: Brother's blind Spot. I still have not seen The Lady Killers.

1075
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 6: I'm not a completist, but otherwise there are only two

1076
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 6: Cone Brothers films I have not given at least three

1077
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 6: stars to not given the Little Heart to on letterboxed

1078
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 6: and they are intolerable Cruelty and Burn after reading, much

1079
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 6: to the chagrin of many film spotting listeners.

1080
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 3: That makes sense because both are in the farce vein.

1081
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, I am a fan of Burn

1082
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 3: after reading, but the last time I saw it it

1083
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 3: still stayed in that lower tier. As we've been talking

1084
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 3: about Tears of Cohen Brothers, so positive but maybe not

1085
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: appreciative enough. I don't know. We'll have to see if

1086
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 3: this revisit bumps it up on that ranking or not.

1087
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 7: I do know.

1088
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm just looking forward to Gigglane a lot, so that'll

1089
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 3: be worth.

1090
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 6: It, hopefully it will be. If you would like to

1091
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 6: hear that show. And you're not already a Film Spotting

1092
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 6: Family member, please join us. You can learn everything you

1093
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 6: need to know at Filmspottingfamily dot com.

1094
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 10: Are you being serious right now?

1095
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1096
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 6: You'd let me interview you as Superman?

1097
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 9: Sure?

1098
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 3: Ready, let's do it. Cronkite Superman, Miss Lane.

1099
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 6: Clark, Lois Lex. They're all back in James Gunn's Superman,

1100
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 6: which hits theaters this weekend. I'm told there's also a dog.

1101
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 3: Josh is a dog which I don't think is a spoiler, featured.

1102
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 6: Prominently the trailer, in one of.

1103
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 3: The trailers, and yeah, I saw this last night. If

1104
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 3: you'tra firm there's a.

1105
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 6: Dog, you've you've filed your review already. I may have

1106
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 6: been on your site earlier today, Larson on film dot

1107
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 6: com to look something up and senior review and you

1108
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,919
Speaker 6: are just not these days a James gun guy.

1109
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:30,959
Speaker 3: We'll discuss next week.

1110
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 6: Okay, we will discuss next week. We'll have a review

1111
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 6: of Superman. And so far anyway, we're sticking to this

1112
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 6: top five. We're gonna try to show Superman some love,

1113
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 6: even Josh. We're gonna share our top five Superman moments.

1114
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 6: Josh may go back to George Reeves for his top five.

1115
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 3: We'll see come on, Christopher Reeve is great.

1116
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 6: Okay For a schedule of future shows subject to change,

1117
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 6: but you can view it film spotting dot Net click

1118
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 6: on episodes.

1119
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 7: Are you gonna bark all day, Little Doggie? Or are

1120
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 7: you gonna bite?

1121
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 5: What was that?

1122
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 7: I'm sorry I didn't catch it. Would you repeat it?

1123
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 7: Are you gonna bark all day? Little Doggies?

1124
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 6: Or are you gonna bite? Who else? Mister Blonde? The

1125
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 6: late Michael Madson with Harvey Kaitel and Reservoir Dogs. The

1126
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 6: Chicago born Madison died last weekend. He was sixty seven

1127
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 6: years old. We wanted to pay a little tribute. He

1128
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 6: has credits going back to the early eighties. I do

1129
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 6: remember him very vividly. War Games is a movie I

1130
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 6: was obsessed with as a kid. Watched it a hundred times,

1131
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 6: and he's in the prologue at the beginning. I don't

1132
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 6: even think his character has a name, but there's a

1133
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 6: prologue where there's a nuclear launch sequence and the other

1134
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 6: guy in the sequence is actually Leo McGarry. John Spencer

1135
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 6: from the West wing and Michael Maddene and John Spencer's

1136
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 6: character doesn't want to do his job and press the button,

1137
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 6: and Michael Madsen's character gets his gun out to try

1138
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 6: to force him to press the button. And that's that's

1139
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 6: the end of the sequence.

1140
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 3: Sir, we are at launch.

1141
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 6: Turn your keys are produces, Turn your key, sir. It's intense.

1142
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were locked in.

1143
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 6: I was. He's bumped Bailey in the Natural, another movie

1144
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 6: I was obsessed with in the eighties. Then we got

1145
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 6: to the nineties where he was in the Doors and

1146
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 6: Thelma and Louis. Of course, it's the Tarantino stuff in

1147
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 6: addition to Donnie Brasco. It's the Tarantino stuff like Kill

1148
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 6: Bill Volume one and two and The Hateful Eight and

1149
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 6: Once upon a Time in Hollywood, where I think he

1150
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:42,479
Speaker 6: did some of his best work.

1151
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know the thing about Madson that comes

1152
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 3: to mind for me, And maybe this isn't evidenced in

1153
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 3: war Games, but curiously I think it is in Reservoir Dogs.

1154
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 3: Despite the brutality of that famous sequence, somehow Madson had

1155
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: a softness to his presence, and while it was also

1156
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 3: intimidating and could be brooding and violent, there. There was

1157
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 3: just a little tinge of that he brought that made

1158
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 3: him distinct, and I think, does you know lodge some

1159
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 3: of these performances in our memory?

1160
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, Rip Michael Madison, Josh, would you like to say

1161
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 6: a few more words about your upcoming event August eleventh

1162
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 6: through fourteen at the Cisco Film Center in Chicago.

1163
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to keep banging the drum for this.

1164
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 3: Tickets are still available, they are available now, but it

1165
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 3: is Cinema interrupt Us The Player, And I did read

1166
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 3: the book Adham. I know you tease me for this,

1167
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 3: wanting to read the book version. I actually it actually

1168
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 3: when you're approved way this time. When I read Michael

1169
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 3: Tolkien's novel this summer, and some fascinating differences. Even though

1170
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: Tolkien wrote the screenplay for The Player, you got a

1171
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 3: wonder and so my research maybe I'll dig some of

1172
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 3: this up. Whether it was Altman's hand moving that in

1173
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 3: another direction. I'm not saying one is better than the other,

1174
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 3: but very interesting and it's probably one of the things

1175
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 3: we'll touch on, you know, not spend a ton of

1176
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 3: time on, but we'll touch on with interrupt Us. We've

1177
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 3: got four days to do it, as I've described this

1178
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 3: is four days of communal film criticism. So we're going

1179
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 3: to watch the player and It's entirety on August eleven,

1180
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 3: and then return the next day and spend three days

1181
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 3: going through it seen by scene. Anyone can shout stop

1182
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 3: and ask a question, make a comment. Maybe there will

1183
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 3: be some other folks who have read the novel and

1184
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 3: want to weigh in on that. So if you can't

1185
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 3: make it for all four days, you can still drop

1186
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 3: in for one day and buy a single day ticket.

1187
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 3: Of course, there are four day packages available to Ciscofilmcenter

1188
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 3: dot org slash interruptus if you want to pick some

1189
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 3: of those up.

1190
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 6: Let's call a hope of some lucky brace.

1191
01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 7: Hope.

1192
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 11: It is not a strategy anything else, Professor try Fast.

1193
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 3: This week on our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show,

1194
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 3: looking at Cinema's present via its past, they have a

1195
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 3: new pairing F one, the movie. I think we both

1196
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 3: still need to catch up with this.

1197
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 6: Oh no, Josh, oh, come on.

1198
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 8: Oh.

1199
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 6: I said I had Top five Films of Year homework

1200
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 6: to do, and I did a lot of it. I

1201
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 6: made it to F one.

1202
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 3: The only thing I want to know about it?

1203
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 6: Uh huh?

1204
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 3: Is it better than the film The Next Picture Show.

1205
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 3: Folks are pairing it with Adam McCay's Talladega Knights, one

1206
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 3: of the shining moments in John c Riley's career, obviously

1207
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 3: Will Ferrell's career. Who else am I? Who else am I? Forgetting?

1208
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 3: Who's Who's so great in that?

1209
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 7: Is it?

1210
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 3: Leslie bib Borat? Of course? Oh my gosh, yes.

1211
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 7: Of course?

1212
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: And his dad? Who's Who's Who's his dad?

1213
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 7: Again?

1214
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 6: I am blanking at the moment, Josh, I'm sorry.

1215
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:00,479
Speaker 3: Cole Cole last name is Cole? Anyways? Which is better

1216
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 3: at them? Talladega Knights or F one.

1217
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 6: I'm gonna go Talladega Knights, though I like F one.

1218
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 6: I like F one. It delivered exactly what I expected

1219
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 6: it too. So no, didn't make my top five, didn't

1220
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 6: make my top ten. I'm not sure it's in my

1221
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 6: top fifteen, Josh. But it delivered exactly what I thought

1222
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 6: it would. It's, you know, Maverick and top Gun in

1223
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 6: a Formula One car, even though we already got Maverick

1224
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 6: or top Gun anyway in a NASCAR vehicle that was

1225
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 6: called Days of Thunder. So this is just with a

1226
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 6: bigger budget in a faster car in or on more

1227
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 6: exotic tracks.

1228
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 3: All right, there you go, Gary Cole play Bob. So

1229
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 3: some of these synepsi's are still are still firing. New

1230
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 3: episodes of the Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday. You

1231
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 3: can find them wherever you get your podcasts. Listen, man,

1232
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 3: call me you everybody else? Does you okay?

1233
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 8: You?

1234
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 3: Yes, sir?

1235
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 6: I always used to have trouble with my name too,

1236
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 6: but Dusky always wanted to call me badass.

1237
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 11: Badass.

1238
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 6: Time for another deeply flawed film spotting poll question, and

1239
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 6: this one might be because the answer apparently is too obvious.

1240
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 6: Jack Nicholson there with Otis Young in nineteen seventy Three's

1241
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 6: the last detail. In a couple of weeks, we are

1242
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 6: planning to share our top five Jack Nicholson scenes. The

1243
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 6: last detail I think was some homework for you, Josh.

1244
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 6: I know you checked it out recently.

1245
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 3: It was homework, and I am so glad that it was.

1246
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 3: I really went for the last detail. I'll save any

1247
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 3: further comments about Nicholson and at four that's top five

1248
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 3: list when we get to it.

1249
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 6: I haven't seen the last detail since I was an

1250
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 6: undergrad in college watching it on a VHS tape they

1251
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 6: need to rectify.

1252
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 3: Do for a revisit?

1253
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, along with that top five, we'll have a Pantheon

1254
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 6: Project review of One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. That

1255
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 6: is a VHS tape we almost wore out, believe it

1256
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 6: or not. In college. For some reason, my roommates and

1257
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 6: I loved to watch One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

1258
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 3: Right, you guys were just bumping against the system. Were

1259
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 3: taken up with any of that crap?

1260
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, maybe. So that movie turns fifty this year.

1261
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 6: So our poll question asks you to choose one and

1262
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 6: only one Nicholson performance Josh give them the options.

1263
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 3: Billy Badass, s Badski that's from the last detail, Jake

1264
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 3: Gettis from Chinatown, the Joker in Batman, Randall, Patrick McMurphy

1265
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 3: in Cuckoo's Nest, and Jack Torrance the Shining You can

1266
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 3: write in with another choice and vote other because there

1267
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 3: are many many.

1268
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 6: Others having peaked at the results so far, and admittedly

1269
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 6: the pole just went up this show. People are just

1270
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 6: now hearing it, so a lot of votes still to

1271
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 6: come in, but it does seem like we probably should

1272
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:14,520
Speaker 6: have said pick just one. Jack Nicholson performance. That isn't

1273
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 6: r P. McMurphy and one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

1274
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 6: That would have been a more interesting poll question because

1275
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 6: he is running away with it.

1276
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 3: Wow, And see I would have thought get us in

1277
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 3: Chinatown might have been another likely options. So yeah, Cuckoo's

1278
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 3: Nest still sticking around and being fans of the film

1279
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 3: and his performance.

1280
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:37,839
Speaker 6: You can vote in that poll and leave the comment

1281
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 6: at filmspotting dot net.

1282
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 5: Uh, look at I put in a good word for

1283
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 5: you with Sheldrek and personnel, mister Sheldreck. That's right. We

1284
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 5: were discussing our department, man pow Wise promotion wise. I

1285
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 5: told him, what a bright boy yard. They're always on

1286
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,600
Speaker 5: the lookout for young executives. Thank you. You're on your

1287
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 5: way up, buddy boy.

1288
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:54,799
Speaker 7: You're also out of liquor.

1289
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 6: Oh I know. Mister Eichelberger mortgage a lone department.

1290
01:10:57,960 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 5: Last night he had a little Halloween party.

1291
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 6: All right, buddy boy, let's get to the apartment. That's

1292
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 6: Jack Lemmon with David Lewis's Mister Kirkabee in Billy Wilder's

1293
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 6: The Apartment. The movie turned sixty five this year. That

1294
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 6: film has been in the film spotting Pantheon since twenty

1295
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 6: ten when we concluded a Billy Wilder Marathon by naming

1296
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 6: it the best picture, which doesn't necessarily mean it's the

1297
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 6: best Billy Wilder movie. A lot of strong contenders there.

1298
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 6: We should say, you weren't my co host yet when

1299
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 6: we did that Wilder Marathon, Josh, which is why we

1300
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 6: are talking about The Apartment this week. We are calling

1301
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 6: it our Pantheon project been going on for roughly a

1302
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 6: year or so and is going to go on. I

1303
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 6: think it's scheduled until around twenty twenty eight, where we're

1304
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 6: picking these anniversaries or different milestones for these films, taking

1305
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 6: every movie that's in the pantheon, and we're trying to

1306
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 6: make sure that we have an in depth discussion on

1307
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 6: the books between me and you. So even though the

1308
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 6: Apartment has been talked about before in the show's history,

1309
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 6: this is now the two of us partaking in a

1310
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 6: conversation about this classic film.

1311
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty eight also when I finally get access to

1312
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 3: my own draft picks back, so that's going to be

1313
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 3: a big year, Adam. The Apartment came to theaters in

1314
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 3: the summer of nineteen sixty Jack Lemon had already appeared,

1315
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 3: and while there's some like it hot, I think maybe

1316
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 3: for me. While there's Best Picture, I don't know. That

1317
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 3: was just the year before, and he was OSCAR nominated

1318
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:34,719
Speaker 3: in it. Here Lemon plays C. C. Baxter, corporate drone

1319
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 3: who hopes to increase his odds of climbing the ladder

1320
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 3: career wise at the Consolidated Life insurance company by letting

1321
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 3: company executives use his upper west side apartment for their

1322
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 3: extramarital affairs. Surely McLean's fran Kubalik is an elevator operator

1323
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 3: at Consolidated Life who has a bad habit of dating

1324
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 3: lousey men, some married men, including one of those Consolidated execs.

1325
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 3: The Apartment won the Best Picture Oscar in nineteen sixty one.

1326
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 3: Wilder won his second Best Director Oscar. It was his

1327
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 3: eighth and final directing nomination. Lemon and McLain both nominated

1328
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 3: for Oscars, as was Wilder's screenplay, which he wrote with

1329
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 3: longtime writing partner i Al Diamond. Adam, you love the apartment.

1330
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 3: I love the apartment. Everybody loves the apartment. Why do

1331
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 3: we love it still? Sixty five years later?

1332
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 6: Because great filmmaking is timeless. Direction, sure, writing performances. The

1333
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 6: core ideas and themes of this movie, though, I think,

1334
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 6: are also timeless, which we'll start digging into here in

1335
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 6: a moment. But play along with me for a second.

1336
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 6: I was thinking about this earlier today, Josh, and I

1337
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 6: was thinking, sure, that can be true everything I just said,

1338
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 6: But of course you still would have to acknowledge that

1339
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 6: the movie feels like a product of its time. And

1340
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 6: maybe this will backfire on me, but eliminating thing like, no,

1341
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 6: nobody's using a computer or is texting. Can you think

1342
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 6: of something glaring, just off the top of your head,

1343
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 6: Can you think of something glaring that positions this movie

1344
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 6: as a relic of the mid twentieth century? What comes

1345
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 6: to mind?

1346
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, yeah, relic. No, that's why we're talking

1347
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 3: about it now, because it's not I don't think, aside

1348
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 3: from any cultural or sets or props or costume design

1349
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 3: or those things that are period specific, I don't think so.

1350
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 3: And sure I can say more about that in terms

1351
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 3: of its endurance, but yeah, I think to your basic

1352
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 3: answer to your question is no, it doesn't feel like

1353
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 3: a relic at all.

1354
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 6: Well, that's where I'm going though even in terms of

1355
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 6: props or those other material aspects, the only clear one

1356
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 6: for me was thinking about watching the operators connect the

1357
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 6: phone lines in those couple scenes that consolidated life. Okay,

1358
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 6: that's a different American epic, clearly. And my point here

1359
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 6: isn't that there's nothing dated in the movie, of course

1360
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 6: there is. The point is the Apartment is remarkably modern

1361
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 6: in both its construction and its sensibility, and I want

1362
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 6: to talk about that sensibility that Wilder brings to it,

1363
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 6: and just thinking about the concept of the movie. One

1364
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 6: of the University of Chicago gram School classes that Maddie

1365
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 6: and I taught was the Films of Billy Wilder. So

1366
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 6: I had done a little bit of research on the

1367
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 6: film to prep for that class on The Apartment. And

1368
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 6: I don't know if you know this story or not, Josh,

1369
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,839
Speaker 6: but one of the seeds for this story for Wilder

1370
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 6: was planted when he saw Brief Encounter, a film that

1371
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 6: we love with David Lane film and viewers like us

1372
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 6: see Brief Encounter and we're all fawning over how in

1373
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 6: love Alec and Laura are and how tragic it is

1374
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 6: that they just can't be together and you know what

1375
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 6: Billy Wilder is thinking about while he's watching Brief Encounter

1376
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 6: the dope, or, in the parlance of the apartment the

1377
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 6: schnook who makes sure that he's out of his flat

1378
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 6: so his friend can bring a woman to have sex

1379
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 6: with in his bed. What type of guy is that?

1380
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 6: What's his story? I think Wilder even phrased it like

1381
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:26,679
Speaker 6: the guy whose bed is still warm from the couple

1382
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 6: that was in it. That's what he's thinking about. And

1383
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 6: I don't want to call it cynicism, but I think

1384
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 6: you see it here in in other Wilder films. There's

1385
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 6: just a frankness, a candidness that compels him to just

1386
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 6: cut right to the core the basic humanness of something.

1387
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 6: And I think that's what makes any sentimentality that does

1388
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 6: come through in his films, and it does that much stronger,

1389
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 6: is that it's always earned. And I also think his

1390
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,839
Speaker 6: outsider perspective matters. That he's someone born in Austria, Hungary.

1391
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 6: He begins as a screenwriter in Berlin. He eventually emigrates

1392
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 6: to Hollywood the Rise of Hitler, and he focuses that

1393
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 6: sharp outsider's eye again and again on what it means

1394
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 6: to be an American in the American experience and the

1395
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 6: realities in the illusion of the American dream, the illusions

1396
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 6: of that dream. And he turns that guy from brief encounter,

1397
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 6: he imagines him or reimagines him as C. C. Baxter,

1398
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 6: and he tells us that the sea is for Calvin,

1399
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 6: the sees are for Calvin and Clifford. But I don't know.

1400
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 6: I like to think of it more like corporate climber,

1401
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 6: or maybe even constant compromiser, you know. And the way

1402
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:42,520
Speaker 6: then throughout the film that Wilder surgically shreds the hypocrisy

1403
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 6: of American capitalism and gluttony and avarice. And there's so

1404
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,560
Speaker 6: many examples, but I'll give you just a few. And

1405
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 6: this is a minor thing. But I think this is

1406
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:52,839
Speaker 6: the thing about Wilder, right that makes him so special

1407
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 6: as a screenwriter collaborating with il Diamond, but also as

1408
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 6: a director. Every detail matters. In the Narration, early on

1409
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 6: he mentions that Baxter mentions that his rent got raised

1410
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 6: because the landlord put in an air conditioning unit. But

1411
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 6: it's a second hand air conditioning unit, of course, cutting

1412
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 6: whatever corner they could how about in that first I

1413
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 6: think exchange the first encounter that we see where Kirkabee

1414
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 6: is leaving with Sylvia and he says something that suggests

1415
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 6: he does this regularly with other women. He lets it

1416
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 6: slip and she says, hey, wait a second, are you

1417
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 6: doing this with just anybody? And what does he say?

1418
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 6: Certainly not, I'm a happily married man, right, And it's

1419
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 6: like he's not even aware of his own hypocrisy. And

1420
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 6: later when Baxter gets the promotion, finally gets his name

1421
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 6: on the door, gets exactly what he's been bucking for

1422
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 6: the entire time. He boasts to Fran that he's the

1423
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 6: second youngest executive and who's the youngest. The youngest is

1424
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 6: the grand son of the owner of the company. So

1425
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 6: neither the youngest nor the second youngest deserve it. This

1426
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 6: is how you get ahead. It is an a meritocracy.

1427
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 6: It's not about hard work or the time that you

1428
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 6: put in. What does the guy next to him say

1429
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 6: when Baxter is getting called upstairs, I've been here twice

1430
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 6: as long as you have doesn't matter. That's the world

1431
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 6: that Wilder explores in this movie.

1432
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, the cynicism is absolutely there, but I think the

1433
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 3: reason whyl there's movies for me never curdle towards bitterness

1434
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 3: or nihilism, which could be further steps after cynicism. Is

1435
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,799
Speaker 3: because of the comedy. It's because of those golden nuggets

1436
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 3: that you know, Diamond and he put in the screenplay.

1437
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 3: It's because to go back to the brief Encounter story,

1438
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 3: when he sees that minor character in that film, part

1439
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 3: of him must think that's kind of a funny situation. Absolutely,

1440
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 3: it's sad, it's gross, it's you know, it's all those

1441
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 3: things you described, but it's also kind of funny. And

1442
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 3: so if you push that and push the comedy and

1443
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 3: get people to come along with the comedy, then you're

1444
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 3: going to allow the cynicism to have space within the

1445
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 3: story as well without overwhelming it. I think that's the

1446
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 3: magic trick of Wilder and why for me, I've never

1447
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 3: understood why people find his cynicism as a negative or

1448
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 3: find his comedy as a way to write him off.

1449
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's the blend. It's the perfect blend that

1450
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 3: he manages that makes him so special as a filmmaker.

1451
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 3: And along with these collaborators he worked with so often,

1452
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 3: I think this movie does you know, still stand the

1453
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 3: test of time, partly because it speaks so directly to loneliness,

1454
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 3: so achingly to loneliness. And this is another element that

1455
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 3: you know, the discussion of comedy and cynicism plays a

1456
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 3: part in right, because to just focus on the loneliness

1457
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 3: could lead to despair, a close relation of cynicism and

1458
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 3: just pushing on the comedy. I don't think you'd get this,

1459
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 3: this loneliness that the movie carries. But there's so much

1460
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 3: talk about these days these days about an epidemic of

1461
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,440
Speaker 3: loneliness that were undergoing. You know, some people say it's technology,

1462
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:30,799
Speaker 3: you know that's degrading human contact. Maybe it's the breakdown

1463
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 3: of the you know, traditional family structure. Maybe it's that

1464
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 3: people move for employment, you know, people compared to like

1465
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 3: the sixties or whatever, people will go across the country

1466
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 3: for a job. All these things and those causes weren't

1467
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 3: around when The Apartment came out, but the same sort

1468
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 3: of sadness was. And I think it's because this is

1469
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 3: also a holiday movie, which seems obvious when it is

1470
01:21:56,439 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 3: set the Christmas party at the office, immaculately sustained comic

1471
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 3: cynic sequence, the way they handle all those elements in

1472
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 3: that sequence. But yeah, there's a Christmas Party. This is

1473
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 3: a holiday movie, and the holidays, of course, you know,

1474
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 3: wonderful times for those who have people to celebrate them with,

1475
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 3: horrible times for those who don't. I think that's why

1476
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 3: this movie is set during the holidays, and it's directly

1477
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 3: related to this idea of loneliness. These are two lonely characters, deeply,

1478
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 3: deeply lonely characters who have not found a way in

1479
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 3: this big city to meet that. And Baxter has perhaps

1480
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 3: tried through his corporate striving and Fran clearly through the

1481
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 3: romantic striving, and they've both met dead ends. And you know,

1482
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 3: this brings me to the one thing I want to

1483
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 3: talk about is these characters and the performances, because it's

1484
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 3: the one thing. No matter how many times I watch

1485
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,720
Speaker 3: The Apartment, I am continually dazzled by both of them.

1486
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 3: But just to start with Lemon as Baxter. The sequence

1487
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 3: Adam this time that made me just giggle throughout but

1488
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,879
Speaker 3: also recognize the genius of Lemon as a physical performer

1489
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 3: is the extended bit. It's a single take, there's no edit.

1490
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 3: Wilder doesn't let him off the hook at all. But

1491
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 3: this is when Baxter has the cold, cold and a fever.

1492
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 3: They add both, and he's trying to call all of

1493
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 3: his bosses to reschedule right. And the way Lemon just

1494
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 3: sustains the sequence with performance. He is such a fuss

1495
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 3: budget and yet pulls it off, and you're rooting for him.

1496
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:46,560
Speaker 3: I mean, you shouldn't be rooting for any of this,

1497
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 3: but because it's Baxter, because it's Lemon, you are. And

1498
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,640
Speaker 3: it is a tight rope, high wire act. That was

1499
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 3: maybe the thing I enjoyed the most on this rewatch.

1500
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 5: Look, I've got your dad here for tonight, but I'm

1501
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 5: going to be using the place myself, so I'll have

1502
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,519
Speaker 5: to cancel. Cancel, but it's your birthday.

1503
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:05,600
Speaker 3: I already ordered the.

1504
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 7: Cake, but I am sick.

1505
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:09,799
Speaker 6: I got a terrible cold and a fever.

1506
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 3: And I got to go to bed right after work.

1507
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 5: If you got a cold, you go to a Turkish bath,

1508
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 5: spend the night there, sweat it out.

1509
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 6: That's the way you get the emodia. And if I

1510
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 6: got the emojia, i'd be.

1511
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,719
Speaker 3: A bit for a month. Okay, you made your point.

1512
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, the performances are undeniable, and I have a scene

1513
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 6: like that too this time. But I want to go

1514
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 6: back and just say it's a great comedic performance that

1515
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 6: never devolves into pure silliness, and there's no slapstick. There

1516
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 6: are great small physical moments, like in the opening scene

1517
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 6: where he starts nodding his head in sync with the machine,

1518
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 6: which is also in sync with the score, and there

1519
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 6: are great verbal and physical moments. And this is the

1520
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 6: scene right where for me, the scene this time that

1521
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 6: I really loved, where he is talking to shell Drake

1522
01:24:55,960 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 6: the first time and he's a little slow figure out

1523
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 6: where shell Drake is going. And the line that Fred

1524
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,839
Speaker 6: McMurray says is it also says here that you are alert,

1525
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 6: astute and quite imaginative. And he says oh, and then

1526
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 6: the camera just holds on him as he realizes, Oh,

1527
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 6: that that's a prompt, you dummy. You need to figure

1528
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 6: out you need to read between the lines, and the

1529
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 6: oh then turns into oh. And the way you see Lemon,

1530
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 6: the way he changes the inflection of the reading of oh,

1531
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 6: and the process of that realization that plays out, that

1532
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 6: that goes from his brain to his face is just

1533
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 6: so much fun. I think two with Lemon, there's just

1534
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 6: there is a fundamental decency to him, even as he

1535
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 6: does questionable things or you wish he'd grow more of

1536
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 6: a backbone. You just always understand his predicament. There's a

1537
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 6: part of you that's always rooting for him throughout this film.

1538
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 3: And this is what McLean has too, is that bedrock

1539
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 3: decency that doesn't make her the performance doesn't make Fran

1540
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 3: seem naive or innocent. Both of those would have been

1541
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 3: boring and unreal. But McClain manages to communicate this bedrock

1542
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 3: decency that she shares in common with Baxter, while also

1543
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 3: making her a real woman who is you know, striving

1544
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 3: for that connection as I discussed, making mistakes in doing it,

1545
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 3: making choices that you know, we would say, oh, don't

1546
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:40,600
Speaker 3: do that, yeah, yet also making us understand in the

1547
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 3: way she operates, just the way she operates the elevator,

1548
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,160
Speaker 3: you know, and negotiates every interaction she has in that

1549
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 3: elevator is a negotiation that Fran balances by not you know,

1550
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 3: maybe she should call out the bosses who are making

1551
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 3: sexist remarks, but the she has to tiptoe around that without.

1552
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 6: Or being actually manhandled at times, exactly negotiating it, right, Yeah,

1553
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:09,719
Speaker 6: that's exactly it, Adam.

1554
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 3: Like we recognize she also has a backbone, maybe more

1555
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 3: of a backbone than Baxter actually has in pushing back

1556
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 3: here and there. So that's an incredible performance as well.

1557
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 8: Nineteen watch your step man, wash your hands, mister Kirkfy.

1558
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 5: One of these days, I'm going to shut these doors

1559
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 5: on you.

1560
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 7: And twenty next.

1561
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 3: When I first wrote about The Apartment, I don't know

1562
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 3: how long ago it was, but I described them both

1563
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 3: as good people who would make a great match if

1564
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 3: only they could extricate themselves from the sleaziness they'd come

1565
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 3: and meshed in. And I think that's the appeal of

1566
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 3: these characters. And I was reading this morning. I don't

1567
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 3: know if you if you had a chance to see this,

1568
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,839
Speaker 3: but our friends Scott Tobias and Keith Fink.

1569
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 6: I didn't never chance to read it, but I saw

1570
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 6: it appear.

1571
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 3: I had to this morning. They're doing a series on

1572
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 3: great films and today was The Apartment, and I thought, Okay, Normally,

1573
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to have other critics in

1574
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:07,720
Speaker 3: my head if I'm about to have a discussion, but

1575
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 3: I couldn't resist. I've written Aman so many times and

1576
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 3: we've talked about it on occasion. So but it's interesting

1577
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 3: in regard to this description of Baxter and Fran making

1578
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 3: a great match. Here's Scott Tobias how he described them

1579
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 3: a heartbreakingly decent and accommodating man. That was earlier in

1580
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 3: the conversation. This is Scott and Keith going back and forth.

1581
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 3: Then later Scott purposefully describes Fran as a heartbreakingly decent

1582
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 3: and accommodating woman. So I totally agree with that obviously,

1583
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 3: But it's also the variations of that character that both

1584
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:47,680
Speaker 3: Lemon and McLain provide. They are heartbreakingly decent and accommodating

1585
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 3: in very different ways, which goes back to my notion

1586
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,720
Speaker 3: of watching it again. You know, Fran maybe the one,

1587
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 3: even though she finds herself in the more dire position,

1588
01:28:58,320 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 3: who might have the stronger backbone.

1589
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think she definitely does. And I don't know

1590
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 6: if it was an influence on her or Wilder or not,

1591
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,960
Speaker 6: but Felini's Nights of Kabiria had come out a few

1592
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 6: years before nineteen fifty seven, and that's one of my

1593
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 6: favorite performances, and there is a gamean like quality to Fran,

1594
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,640
Speaker 6: especially with the haircut that we find out that she

1595
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 6: got hurt, right, she got in response to her relationship

1596
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,759
Speaker 6: and how it ended with Sheldrake, and there is that sadness,

1597
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 6: certainly brought on by that loneliness, but there's that spunkiness.

1598
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 6: All those things you're describing, and Wilder is so smart

1599
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 6: to often just point the camera at McLean in close

1600
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,040
Speaker 6: up and you talk about the sleaziness, the moment when

1601
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 6: Sheldrake says, I got you a gift and offers her

1602
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 6: the one hundred dollars bill. Josh, I've seen this movie

1603
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:56,560
Speaker 6: multiple times. I still I still groaned out loud. And

1604
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 6: you know, I'll add this as well. It's partly the performance,

1605
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 6: but it's also the writing. And this is going to

1606
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 6: go back to the modern sensibility. It might be easy

1607
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,679
Speaker 6: for some people, male or female to watch this film

1608
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,160
Speaker 6: and say, I don't know if I totally buy her

1609
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 6: infatuation with shell Drake. She seems too smart for him.

1610
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 6: He's so clearly a snake. Could she really be that

1611
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 6: in love? Yes, she could. Unfortunately, it's a tale as

1612
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 6: old as time, and I think it is brought on

1613
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 6: by that overwhelming loneliness. And this gets back this sensibility, right,

1614
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 6: gets back to the other aspect of the film. One

1615
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 6: of the other aspects of the film that I so love,

1616
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 6: which is the subtle subversiveness of it. And this is

1617
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 6: what made it progressive for its time, so it's still

1618
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 6: modern today. Wilder love to puncture moral codes and play

1619
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 6: around with prevailing social conventions. And when I say it's

1620
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 6: subtly subversive, it's subtle in the sense that Wilder and

1621
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 6: Diamond don't really ask the audience to could front the

1622
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 6: tawdriness of this story. You just have to accept it.

1623
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 6: The entire plot is predicated on infidelity. This is nineteen sixty.

1624
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 6: There isn't an explicit condemnation of that behavior.

1625
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 3: It's in the air. It's in the corporate air, it's.

1626
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 6: In the Even our hero, good old buddy boy Baxter,

1627
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 6: he's never disapproving of what these executives are doing, how

1628
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 6: they're exploiting these women or using these women. He's only

1629
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 6: mad why because they're inconveniencing him. He can't get into

1630
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 6: his place, he can't get a decent night's sleep, he

1631
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:34,759
Speaker 6: has a cold. Other than the peripheral characters in Baxter's

1632
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 6: apartment building, everyone in the story is complicit in some way,

1633
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 6: using or allowing themselves to be used, and he's essentially

1634
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:47,679
Speaker 6: running a brothel. Really, he isn't taking a direct front,

1635
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 6: but he's getting paid on the back end at work.

1636
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 3: He's the I mean, they're they're kind of cheaping out

1637
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 3: on the booze exactly.

1638
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 6: That's what made me think of a Josh. He's providing

1639
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:02,720
Speaker 6: the venue, the booze, then acts the music all the accouterma.

1640
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:05,679
Speaker 6: So you know, Wilder just he isn't wide eyed about

1641
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 6: how the world works in nineteen sixty or in twenty

1642
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 6: twenty five. I think that's why it still feels relevant today.

1643
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 6: And that's that screenplay, and I'll throw it back to

1644
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 6: you here, But that's screenplay, this Oscar winning script by

1645
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 6: Wilder and Diamond. It's tapping in to this progressive for

1646
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:27,640
Speaker 6: its time, perspective and sensibility and what it gets so

1647
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 6: right about these lonely characters. But when it also is

1648
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 6: getting right structure and character and dialogue. Well, it's also

1649
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 6: about when not to use dialogue, what you can show

1650
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,200
Speaker 6: us instead of telling us, and sometimes what you show

1651
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 6: us while telling us, What does it say about Baxter

1652
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:51,720
Speaker 6: as a character who is constantly getting disappointed and in

1653
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 6: a way kind of reinforcing the idea of him not

1654
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:57,800
Speaker 6: really having a backbone even, but also reinforcing this notion

1655
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 6: of American commercialism that he gets. And I'm using these

1656
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 6: words very deliberately here, right, he gets turned on to

1657
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 6: watch Grand Hotel, only to be sent to the cold

1658
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 6: shower of a message from the sponsors twice forget, you know,

1659
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 6: delayed gratification.

1660
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 11: It's such a good scene he just gives up, right,

1661
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,680
Speaker 11: And maybe my favorite bit that I had somehow never

1662
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 11: really paid attention to before, the symmetry of the simple

1663
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 11: repeated gesture that does more to connect Fran and Baxter

1664
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 11: than any romantic dialogue ever could.

1665
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 6: How great is it that we get the moment at

1666
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 6: the Christmas party when Baxter has had too much to drink,

1667
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:44,240
Speaker 6: She asks him how many drinks he's had, and he

1668
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 6: says only three, but he holds up four fingers. I'd

1669
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:51,880
Speaker 6: love it later later in the film, when she is

1670
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 6: now recovering and she's in a delirious state from the

1671
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 6: drugs that she ingested and is trying to cover and

1672
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 6: I don't remember exactly what the question is, but she

1673
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 6: holds up her fingers and she says three, but holds

1674
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 6: up four fingers. Right, that's the kind of genius those

1675
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 6: kind of moments that you get those little bits that

1676
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,479
Speaker 6: you get with Diamond and with Wilder, and I'll just

1677
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 6: give you one more at the end, near the end,

1678
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,719
Speaker 6: we see how much savvier Baxter has become, I think anyway,

1679
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 6: how better he seems to understand the system and how

1680
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 6: to navigate it. When Fran asks him in the lobby

1681
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 6: if he's heading to the subway, is he going home?

1682
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,040
Speaker 6: And he says, to tell you the truth, I have

1683
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 6: this heavy date for tonight. And when Fran leaves, he

1684
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 6: walks toward that woman the gestured to right, and then

1685
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 6: she of course goes the other way. He's just sort

1686
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 6: of playing the game, playing the system. He has this

1687
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 6: confidence now about him that he can exploit when he

1688
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 6: needs to, again showing us that through action, through behavior.

1689
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole thing is like clockwork. And yet despite that,

1690
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 3: despite you know the knowledge that every scene is connected

1691
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 3: to a scene not only that follows, but one that's

1692
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 3: going to come to your point about the fingers, the

1693
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 3: four fingers that might come like twenty thirty minutes later.

1694
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:15,240
Speaker 3: This is a movie that allows for discoursions that work.

1695
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 3: And how about the sequence where Baxter a disillusion Baxter

1696
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 3: at this point is drinking at a bar, drinking himself silly,

1697
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:29,559
Speaker 3: and there's a woman across the bar doing the same.

1698
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:35,800
Speaker 3: Hope Holiday plays this character and they're mini romance, if

1699
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,840
Speaker 3: you want to call it a romance. They're many Dallians.

1700
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 5: It was the night before Christmas and all through the

1701
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 5: house not a creature was stirring.

1702
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 9: Nothing, no action.

1703
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 5: Dullsville, you married, Nope, family yep.

1704
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 8: Night like this is sort of spoop should walk into

1705
01:35:59,240 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 8: an empty apart?

1706
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 5: I said I had no family. I didn't say I

1707
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 5: had an empty apartment.

1708
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:10,680
Speaker 3: That's a whole movie in its own, Adam, that is

1709
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 3: a Billy Wilder movie. We never got right this woman

1710
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 3: where they end up kind of like anger flirting, resentment

1711
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 3: flirting against other people with each other. There's no sense

1712
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 3: that they're really attracted to each other, but they're both

1713
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:28,240
Speaker 3: pissed at someone else.

1714
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:29,080
Speaker 6: That's it.

1715
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 3: And this moment this person allows them to express that.

1716
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 3: And yet it segues into this yeah, romantic dancing to

1717
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 3: the point that they closed the bar down. They have

1718
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 3: to be kicked out, and so that's just you know,

1719
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 3: what does that say? Why is that there? Why does

1720
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 3: that not stick out as a sore thumb. In this movie,

1721
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to go back to loneliness. It's finding it's

1722
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 3: finding Baxter, who's we know is lonely, and then it's

1723
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,720
Speaker 3: finding this whole holiday character who is deeply She's not

1724
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,840
Speaker 3: just a joke here, because we've known at this point

1725
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 3: the depth of loneliness that the characters were rooting for

1726
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 3: our experiencing. We transfer that to her as well. And

1727
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 3: she's funny. It's a great performance. It's a great bit,

1728
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,400
Speaker 3: but it's also deeply moving. And I do just want

1729
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:19,439
Speaker 3: to quickly go back to another plug for the reveal

1730
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 3: and quote Scott here Tobias one more time. He's talking

1731
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 3: about loneliness, but he's talking about it after the reveal

1732
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:32,680
Speaker 3: two Baxter of Fran and shell Drake's relationship. Okay, so

1733
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 3: when we have come to know that and so has Baxter,

1734
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 3: Scott wrote, this is no longer just a screwball romantic

1735
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 3: comedy about Baxter frantically arranging his life around his boss's

1736
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:47,280
Speaker 3: extracurricular activities and maybe finding some companionship for himself on

1737
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:50,400
Speaker 3: the side. It now becomes a film about two characters

1738
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:53,680
Speaker 3: in the depths of loneliness and despair having to deal

1739
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 3: with the abundantly clear reality that they're on the lowest

1740
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 3: rung of the social ladder and they have been humiliated

1741
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 3: and exploited for it. So great stuff there from Scott

1742
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 3: in the reveal, and Yeah, captures all the levels we've

1743
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 3: been talking about how this works as an emotional character

1744
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:13,760
Speaker 3: study but also a societal critique that never feels too

1745
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 3: heavy or like that's been forced upon the narrative at hand.

1746
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:20,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you get those little touches that are also

1747
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 6: humorous but at the same time add to that sense

1748
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 6: of despair if you will, how hard she has to

1749
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 6: work to even get Baxter's attention, blowing the straws at

1750
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 6: him right exactly, you know you're talking about when he

1751
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 6: discovers that she's with Sheldrake. The economy of the broken

1752
01:38:40,439 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 6: mirror from a screenplay standpoint, from a plot perspective, but

1753
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 6: also how it informs the sadness of Fran's character when

1754
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 6: she says, I like it. It makes me look how

1755
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 6: I feel, which gathering for supporting the idea that, you

1756
01:38:56,080 --> 01:39:00,080
Speaker 6: know what, she might do something really drastic later in

1757
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 6: the film. And you were talking about connections establishing the

1758
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 6: motif of the Keys to the apartment into the washroom,

1759
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:12,000
Speaker 6: so that we're pleasantly surprised or pleasantly reassured, depending on

1760
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:14,280
Speaker 6: how you read it. At the end, when we discover

1761
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:17,920
Speaker 6: that Baxter tosses Sheldrake the washroom key and not his

1762
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,960
Speaker 6: apartment key. Now, Wilder and Diamond, this is maybe the

1763
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:24,800
Speaker 6: only thing I can come by in terms of a criticism.

1764
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 6: They might overdo it a little bit, as we heard

1765
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 6: in the clip at the top of the show, but

1766
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:34,800
Speaker 6: adding wise to the end of so many things that

1767
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:38,920
Speaker 6: he says, it works though in that it does show

1768
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 6: it reveals that he is taking on this pattern of

1769
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 6: thinking through his manner of speaking. He is becoming executive material,

1770
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 6: this type of executive material because exactly he's equivocating when

1771
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:02,639
Speaker 6: he talks and wise to the end of everything he does,

1772
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 6: and the other thing that Wilder does. It's so great.

1773
01:40:05,320 --> 01:40:08,679
Speaker 6: And I've surely talked about this before because when Wilder

1774
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 6: comes up, this usually comes up, and it's something he

1775
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:14,360
Speaker 6: took from Lubitch, and I think this is usually what

1776
01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:18,880
Speaker 6: he referred to as the Lubitch touch. But Wilder liked

1777
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 6: to create opportunities for the audience to feel like they

1778
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 6: were one step ahead of the characters. So he always

1779
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 6: talked about it in terms of two plus two equals four.

1780
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 6: You give the audience two plus two, but you don't

1781
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 6: add it up for them. You let them figure out

1782
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 6: that it's four before the characters do. And it's hard,

1783
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 6: obviously to put myself in the shoes of a first

1784
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 6: time viewer. But I think an example of that is

1785
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:49,640
Speaker 6: when Sheldrake gives him the music Man tickets because he's

1786
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 6: meeting a woman, and then he asks Fran out and

1787
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 6: Fran can't go because she's meeting a man. Surely most

1788
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 6: audience members suspect that, oh no, what if Sheldrake is

1789
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 6: meeting Fran or at least it's a great possibility. We're

1790
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 6: putting that together before Baxter puts it together, and it's

1791
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 6: again brilliant touches like that in the screenplay. And then

1792
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:18,200
Speaker 6: the last well, I've got one more favorite line I

1793
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:20,400
Speaker 6: have to mention, but if we're going to talk about lines,

1794
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 6: it might not be on the level of your beloved

1795
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,519
Speaker 6: Some like it hot with nobody's perfect, but shut up

1796
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 6: and Deal is about as perfect a final note as

1797
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 6: you can get. But in terms of perfect lines, here's

1798
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 6: my moment, Like if I'm going to point to, just

1799
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:40,680
Speaker 6: from a dialogue standpoint, how great Diamond and Wilder could be.

1800
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 6: And it's funny. I went to IMDb to look up

1801
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:47,360
Speaker 6: the quote, and the quote'es there. But what makes the

1802
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 6: quote so great, what makes the dialogue great, isn't there.

1803
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 6: They've detached, basically the punchline from the setup, and without

1804
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 6: the setup, the punchline's meaningless. The punchline is when Fran

1805
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 6: says to Shell Drake they're in the apartment, it's Christmas Eve,

1806
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,720
Speaker 6: and she says, when you're in love with a married man,

1807
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 6: you shouldn't wear a mass scara. Now, I'm gonna let

1808
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 6: Sam insert the scene here so everybody can hear it.

1809
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:18,759
Speaker 6: How could I'd be so stupid?

1810
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 5: I think I would have learned by now, when you're

1811
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 5: in love with a married man, you shouldn't wear a

1812
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 5: mass scara.

1813
01:42:25,320 --> 01:42:29,160
Speaker 6: The brilliance of that writing is the dramatic build up

1814
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 6: friend confronting the horrible truth about who Shell Drake is,

1815
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:35,559
Speaker 6: who she is, how she has been duped, And you're

1816
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:37,479
Speaker 6: sure that when she says when you're in love with

1817
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:39,360
Speaker 6: a married man, that the end of the phrase is

1818
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 6: going to be right, that you're gonna get your heart broken,

1819
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:45,800
Speaker 6: or you should never get your hopes up. But no,

1820
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:48,880
Speaker 6: she deflates it. That's the humor, the blending right of

1821
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:52,560
Speaker 6: that humor. She deflates it by saying she's stupid for

1822
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 6: wearing mascara because dating a married man will always leave

1823
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:57,960
Speaker 6: you crying and you look like a mess, which is

1824
01:42:58,040 --> 01:43:02,600
Speaker 6: really funny because it's unacted. It's a reversal of the expectation,

1825
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 6: but also it does express essentially the same thing. Saying

1826
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 6: that you'll ruin your mascara from sharing is the same

1827
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 6: thing as saying you'll get your heart broken.

1828
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, they give fran so many great lines, and McLain

1829
01:43:19,160 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 3: handles them like the gems that they are. She knows

1830
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:26,320
Speaker 3: just how to deliver them. Another one which stands out

1831
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:28,679
Speaker 3: to me, it's it's another exchange to your point about

1832
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 3: you need the whole response. But she's describing shell Drake

1833
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:36,479
Speaker 3: as a taker, right, and Baxter is this is where

1834
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 3: the male perspective comes in. Baxter is like, you know,

1835
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 3: he doesn't quite understand what she means, so I think

1836
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,759
Speaker 3: he questions her on that, like what what does a taker?

1837
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 3: And she says, some people take, some people get took,

1838
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:50,720
Speaker 3: but here's the killer, and they know they're getting took

1839
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:53,679
Speaker 3: and there's nothing they can do about it. That's Frank

1840
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 3: kublik is It's not that it goes back to my

1841
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:59,200
Speaker 3: point about her not being naive, not being you know,

1842
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,840
Speaker 3: so in that she doesn't know what's happening. This is

1843
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:03,720
Speaker 3: the tragedy of her. This is what leads her to

1844
01:44:04,479 --> 01:44:07,639
Speaker 3: take as extreme steps as she does, is her deep

1845
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 3: intelligence and awareness and yet to her mind, helplessness in

1846
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:13,040
Speaker 3: the face of it.

1847
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, helpless.

1848
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:16,840
Speaker 3: So you're right. Yeah, it's another just great exchange that

1849
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:19,120
Speaker 3: McLain handles beautifully.

1850
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:20,559
Speaker 2: He's a taker.

1851
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 8: What some people take, some people get took, and I

1852
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:27,720
Speaker 8: know they're getting took and there's nothing good about it.

1853
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 6: Yeah. I do have to make sure we talk about

1854
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,160
Speaker 6: the visual style of the office.

1855
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 3: You know, the.

1856
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:40,200
Speaker 6: Previous thought, gosh, it's brilliant. Her Ben Hurd come out.

1857
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:43,360
Speaker 6: And I know that Wilder had joked that creating the

1858
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:46,880
Speaker 6: set for Consolidated Life and staging the scenes there was

1859
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:50,640
Speaker 6: his chariot race because he had to use like up

1860
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 6: to three hundred and fifty extras or something. But especially

1861
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 6: in the opening, the script is key with the narration.

1862
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 6: This is all in harmony each other, right, all the

1863
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:05,440
Speaker 6: numbers Baxter is reciting, the thirty two and fifty nine employees,

1864
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 6: all those other than the small handful we meet, They're nameless,

1865
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 6: faceless cogs in the machine, and they will be defined

1866
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:16,599
Speaker 6: or their value will only be defined by the service

1867
01:45:17,240 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 6: they provide to the company. And so then how does

1868
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 6: Wilder visually represent that that incredible nineteenth floor set, which

1869
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:28,720
Speaker 6: is this feat of force perspective? The farther back the

1870
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:33,920
Speaker 6: shot goes the desks, The desks are actually smaller and smaller.

1871
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 6: That's what creates the illusion. The people are smaller and smaller,

1872
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:39,799
Speaker 6: like I think they cast. Some of them are actual

1873
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:44,400
Speaker 6: children to help create that sense. And it just gives

1874
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 6: you this overwhelming sense that this floor might actually not

1875
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 6: be contained by walls, that it stretches on for desks

1876
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:56,800
Speaker 6: and people endlessly, and it gives you a feeling of

1877
01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 6: total anonymity, of imp personality, of disconnection. And not only

1878
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 6: that I was looking at this again today, Josh, the ceiling,

1879
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:10,800
Speaker 6: the vertical lines on all those lights, right, and the

1880
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 6: lights that add to that feeling of it's stretching on forever,

1881
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 6: and how the camera is positioned in every shot the

1882
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 6: ceiling is in every shot, and the way the set

1883
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:23,880
Speaker 6: is constructed, and I'm sure the lens they're using as well.

1884
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 6: It all adds to this sense that the ceiling is

1885
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:31,000
Speaker 6: almost pressing down on them. It's like there's no distance

1886
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 6: between their heads. Yeah, so it feels compressed, it feels

1887
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:39,760
Speaker 6: like they are being oppressed by their surrounding. And it's

1888
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 6: so effective.

1889
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,400
Speaker 3: Those shots are something almost like a weird amalgamation of

1890
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:48,200
Speaker 3: Kubrick and you know Jacques Tati with the use of

1891
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 3: with the oppressiveness and the use of the entire frame

1892
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:57,560
Speaker 3: a large scale, architecturally distinct sense of space. Yeah, and

1893
01:46:57,840 --> 01:46:59,639
Speaker 3: you know the other parts of the film too. It's

1894
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 3: not all those sequences, but the nighttime shots outside of

1895
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:06,840
Speaker 3: Baxter's apartment and anywhere in the street really have them

1896
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 3: very much. Here's where you know, Double Indemnity comes into

1897
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:14,760
Speaker 3: play a film noir feel to them. There's subterfuge, there's betrayal,

1898
01:47:14,960 --> 01:47:18,599
Speaker 3: there's deception, and you can sense that in the nighttime

1899
01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:21,479
Speaker 3: street compositions you get here as well. So yeah, I

1900
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:24,080
Speaker 3: think this is one of those, you know that people

1901
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 3: probably think of as a wordy classic, but it's also

1902
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:30,080
Speaker 3: a visual classic.

1903
01:47:30,120 --> 01:47:34,040
Speaker 6: I would say, I want to close by at least

1904
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:38,840
Speaker 6: highlighting If people don't remember this, longtime listeners maybe might

1905
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 6: recall that on episode four hundred when we did the

1906
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 6: live show and we did the top five things we

1907
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 6: learned from the movies, my number one was be a

1908
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 6: mensh from the Apartment. I don't know that I learned it.

1909
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 6: I don't know if you can ever fully learn it.

1910
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 6: You can try to the best of your ability. I'm

1911
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 6: trying every day, but the Apartment did have an impact

1912
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:07,479
Speaker 6: on me that lesson from Doctor Dreyfus, And I do

1913
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:11,360
Speaker 6: think there is a fundamental question that Wilder is posing

1914
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 6: to us here. You know, can you exist And this

1915
01:48:14,240 --> 01:48:19,479
Speaker 6: is still a very relevant question Josh today. Can you

1916
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:24,960
Speaker 6: exist in this America and retain your decency? Can you

1917
01:48:25,120 --> 01:48:30,439
Speaker 6: be a mensh? Can you treat others and yourself with

1918
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 6: the respect that they deserve? Can you be a decent person?

1919
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:37,800
Speaker 6: And not only is that just part and parcel of

1920
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 6: being a mensh obviously being a human being, as he says,

1921
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:45,200
Speaker 6: but there are sort of echoes of it throughout the script.

1922
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:45,680
Speaker 3: Right.

1923
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 6: She mentions to Bud that when he thinks he's getting

1924
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 6: a promotion, that it couldn't happen to a nicer guy,

1925
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:53,760
Speaker 6: that he's the only one who takes his hat off

1926
01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 6: in the elevator. But you know, we learned some things

1927
01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:59,679
Speaker 6: about Bud. We realize that maybe he isn't as decent

1928
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,559
Speaker 6: guys he likes to think that he is. And Fran.

1929
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 6: When Fran stands him up, he says, I forgive you,

1930
01:49:06,479 --> 01:49:09,800
Speaker 6: and she says you shouldn't, but he says, you know,

1931
01:49:10,200 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 6: when you're having a drink with one man, you can't

1932
01:49:12,040 --> 01:49:13,720
Speaker 6: just suddenly walk out on him because you have a

1933
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,559
Speaker 6: date with another man. You did the only decent thing.

1934
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:19,520
Speaker 6: So this is I think this is the movie's preoccupation,

1935
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:26,519
Speaker 6: this notion of decency and it's possibilities, it's possibilities in

1936
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:28,759
Speaker 6: this very difficult world we inhabit.

1937
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:31,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's why it's a comedy. That's that's the comedy,

1938
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 3: is that the movie sees the decency in Fran and

1939
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:40,519
Speaker 3: Baxter knows it's there and is hoping against hope that

1940
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 3: they'll find and embrace it and live into it. And

1941
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 3: then you know, Wilder and Diamond behind the scenes arraging

1942
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:50,760
Speaker 3: things so that they fall in place, that they can

1943
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 3: step into that into that decency that we as viewers

1944
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 3: are hoping for as well.

1945
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:58,760
Speaker 6: The Apartment is currently streaming on Prime Video and available

1946
01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:02,479
Speaker 6: via vod We expect most of you have seen it,

1947
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 6: so if you agree or disagree with our takes, we

1948
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:08,240
Speaker 6: would love to hear your thoughts. Email us feedback at

1949
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:11,240
Speaker 6: filmspotting dot net. That's where you can share any other

1950
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:13,920
Speaker 6: comments about the show, because that is our show.

1951
01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:17,720
Speaker 3: You can find Adam and film Spotting on Instagram and

1952
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:22,280
Speaker 3: Facebook letterboxed as well. He's at film Spotting, I'm at

1953
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 3: all those places. As Larsen on film we are independently

1954
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:28,519
Speaker 3: produced and listener supported. You can support the show by

1955
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:32,160
Speaker 3: joining the film Spotting Family at film spottingfamily dot com.

1956
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:35,360
Speaker 3: You can listen early and ad free. You'll also get

1957
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:39,439
Speaker 3: a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes like our top five

1958
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 3: performances of the year so far, and of course, access

1959
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 3: to the entire show archive. If you're looking for show

1960
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:48,120
Speaker 3: t shirts or other merch go to film spotting dot

1961
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:49,600
Speaker 3: net slash shop.

1962
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:54,120
Speaker 6: The all new Film Spotting Shop thanks to everyone who

1963
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:57,479
Speaker 6: has checked it out. In that film Spotting archive, we

1964
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 6: have our Billy Wilder Marathon from twenty ten. We have

1965
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 6: a review of Double Indemnity from our Summer of Stanwick Marathon.

1966
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:09,439
Speaker 6: That's episode eight eighty nine out on digital this weekend.

1967
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 6: A movie I'm sure both of us would like to

1968
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:15,639
Speaker 6: check out Jaws at fifty, the definitive inside story that's

1969
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:19,519
Speaker 6: on Hulu and Disney Plus in limited release. The new

1970
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 6: one from Jia Jhanka, the filmmaker behind Ashes, purest White

1971
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:25,479
Speaker 6: and a Touch of Sin. It's called Caught by the

1972
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 6: Tides in wide release. James Guns Superman. I know what

1973
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:32,439
Speaker 6: Josh thinks of it. I'm going to have to find

1974
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 6: out what I think of it and see it for myself.

1975
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:37,559
Speaker 6: We'll talk about it next week and we'll share our

1976
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 6: top five Superman moments.

1977
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam

1978
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:45,240
Speaker 3: Van hoggrend. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show would

1979
01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:49,240
Speaker 3: it go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks

1980
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:53,000
Speaker 3: to everyone at wb Eazy Chicago. More information is available

1981
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:56,040
Speaker 3: at wbeaz dot org for film Spotted.

1982
01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:59,200
Speaker 6: I'm Josh Larst and I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1983
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:02,360
Speaker 2: This con sation can serve no purpose anymore.

1984
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:03,759
Speaker 3: Good Bye.

1985
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 6: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

1986
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 6: at film spotting family dot com and get access to

1987
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:29,439
Speaker 6: ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and,

1988
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:31,800
Speaker 6: for the first time, all in one place, the entire

1989
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:34,559
Speaker 6: film spotting archive going back to two thousand and five.

1990
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:36,840
Speaker 6: That's a film spotting Family dot com

1991
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:40,280
Speaker 5: Panomly