1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with Me Frank Affney. The program 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manuel for protecting the country 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: glory of God in his kingdom. We're going to be 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: visiting with one of our favorite guests for the first 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: segment of the show. His name is Captain James Finnell, 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: the United States Navy, retired. He brings to our conversation's 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: a wealth of experience, notably as the Chief of Intelligence 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: for the US Pacific Fleet. Naval intelligence background throughout his 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: distinguished career, but in that role in particular, he was 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: at the pointy end of the spear with respect to 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: assessing and braising the alarm about the coming threat from 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. He has distinguished himself subsequent to 14 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: his time in the Navy by continuing to raise awareness 15 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: about what we're confronting from China, notably in a terrific 16 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: book that he published not so long ago, a bestseller 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: in fact, with our friend doctor Bradley Thayer, entitled Embracing 18 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: Communist China America's Greatest Strategic Failure. We're catching up with 19 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: Jim as he travels about the United States, which is 20 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: wonderful to have him back home. Captain, good to have you, bored. 21 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: Thanks Frank is great to be here and great to 22 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: be back in America. 23 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: Thank you. We're always glad to have you, sir. I 24 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: wanted to start by asking you for a sort of 25 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: situation report briefly, if you would, in the run up 26 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: to our Committee on the Present Danger China webinar. You're, 27 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: of course one of our most important committee members, and 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: you've contributed mightily to these webinars over the years, this 29 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: particular one which will be doing live Friday afternoon at 30 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: one pm, and I encourage all of you to subscribe 31 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: to these programs, to join us for them at Present 32 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: Danger China dot org. They're free, fantastic folks like Captain 33 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: Panel participating in great insights into the threat we face 34 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: from the Chinese Communist Party. This particular one has as 35 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: its topic World War GI the Mideast front. We're going 36 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: to be visiting with an extraordinary group to assess this out, 37 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: but often we turn to Captain Fanel to give us 38 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: kind of an overview of what is happening in that 39 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: particular region. It was part of your extended purview when 40 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: you were out into Pacific theater. But what is your 41 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: take at the moment, Captain Fanel as to whether there's 42 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: a vacuum of power that has been created during the 43 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: Biden years in that region now racked with war, of course, 44 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and that vacuum is being filled by the Chinese communist 45 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: parties and they're lesser partners the Russian Federation. 46 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: Well, Frank, there's no question that China has strategic global ambitions. 47 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: They've stated that almost on a daily basis with their 48 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 3: Global Defense Initiative, Global Strategic Initiative. They have a number 49 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: of initiatives that have global nature. They're digital domain and 50 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: things of that nature. So China has global ambitions, and 51 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 3: folks need to understand that. When China wants to restore 52 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: it talks about restoring themselves. They're talking about restoring themselves 53 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 3: to being the rulers of the earth, which they think 54 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: is their historic right. So that's the first kind of 55 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: thing we need to understand. Second, we need to go 56 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: back ten years when she came to power, over ten 57 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: years twelve years now, and he'd made it very clear 58 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: that he was going to expand China's influence and actions 59 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 3: into the Middle East with starting with the Belton Road initiative, 60 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 3: the building of a military base in Djibouti that they're 61 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: using now for several years to resupply their naval forces 62 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: that have been operating in the Gulf of Adens since 63 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 3: December of two thousand and eight NonStop continuously with three 64 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 3: warships every day of the year in that last sixteen years. 65 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: And then they've done some number of things. 66 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: They've done humanitarian evacuations of their personnel on their naval 67 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: vessels out of Oman, out of Libya when the crisis 68 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: was in Libyan. In the Middle East, they've exercised for 69 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: the last four or five years with the Russians and 70 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: Theanians in the Gulf of Oman and the Gulf of Aden. 71 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: They've operated an exercise with the Russians in the Eastern 72 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: Mediterranean off of Israel, in Syria and north of Egypt. 73 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: And just this week they conducted what they call Exercise 74 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: Eagles of Civilization twenty twenty five where they brought out 75 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: People's Liberation Army Air Force J ten, Charlie Fighters YU twenty, 76 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,239 Speaker 3: their newest aerial refuelers and then the kJ five hundred 77 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 3: early Warning aircraft to operate and exercise with the Egyptian 78 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: Air Force who was operating mid twenty nines. So this 79 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 3: is just this week, and you have to ask yourself, 80 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 3: why is the People's Republic of China exercising militarily with 81 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: the Egyptians who we pay billions to every year and 82 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 3: basically money so that we can ensure that the Suez 83 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 3: Canal stays open. And as we've learned over this last 84 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: year with the huti A t acts on our naval 85 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: vessels and commercial shipping, that most of that traffic goes 86 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: to Europe, not a majority of it goes to America. 87 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: But we as Americans are been providing the services of 88 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 3: the world's policemen to that region, and so it's a 89 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 3: very it's a vital sealink. It's important for the safety 90 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: and security of our European friends and allies. It does 91 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 3: provide America some stuff, some material, but it's really for 92 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: Europe and so when that's at risk, we have to 93 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: ask ourselves why is China there where. There's also rumors 94 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: and talk of what China is doing to supply the 95 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: the Iranians with nuclear technology. Maybe it's the last few 96 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 3: bits and pieces of information that would help them finally 97 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: be able to produce these nuclear weapons. And the sam 98 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: Fatis colleague here on these channels, he said, we don't 99 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 3: really know because the CIA has been so decimated, so 100 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: we have some serious concerns. I predominantly, for the most 101 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: of my career, focus on what the Chinese are doing 102 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 3: in Asia and the Indo Pacific, but we have to 103 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: recognize that they have aspirations that are global and that 104 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 3: critical area of the Middle East. They would like to 105 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: be able to push us out, displace the United States 106 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: and have access and control of that supply of petroleum 107 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: so that can meet their strategic needs. And that's really 108 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: the significant thing. And they're coordinating and operating with the Russians, 109 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: so these are not opposed forces. These are combined forces. 110 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: And when you think about Iranian and Russian and Chinese 111 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: naval forces, now they weren't a great number, they weren't 112 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: a big force, but. 113 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: That's not the point. 114 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: The point is they're practicing tactics, techniques and procedures on 115 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: how they cooperate, communicate, and would conduct operations. And they 116 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: find it very interesting that those three nations were doing 117 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 3: this at the time that the US Navy, my Navy 118 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: is in the Red Sea getting attacked by Hootin rebels 119 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: that may be supplied with missiles and drone technology that ultimately. 120 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: Comes from China as well in Russia. 121 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: So we are we are, we are in a cold war, 122 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 3: if you want to call it that, whatever you want 123 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: to call it, but we are in a contest, an 124 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: existential struggle between communism versus freedom, and we need to 125 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: wake up and recognize that, and that should affect, you know, 126 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 3: how we make decisions on how we defend ourselves. And 127 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: I think this president, the current president, is turned the 128 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: corner and is marching away from the decline that the 129 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: Obama and Biden years. 130 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: Took our nation in terms of national security, we certainly hope. 131 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: So that's the mandate that he was given by the 132 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: American people, I believe, Captain Fanel, and it's one we 133 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: desperately need him to execute, and I think he is trying, 134 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: for sure, Captain. I want to pivot. We've got just 135 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: about a minute before we have to take a short 136 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: break and we'll come back to it. But one of 137 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: the things that you've just touched on, which I think 138 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: is really important for those of us, maybe they're land lubbers. 139 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: Maybe they're just people who don't have any military experience, 140 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: but uh that that famous military adage train as you 141 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: intend to fight is a critical element of what those 142 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: in uniform do. Uh. And if they don't train as 143 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: they intend to fight, they're gonna wind up fighting as 144 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: they've trained, and that may not be sufficient onto the 145 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: day in a dangerous world like we're in at the moment. 146 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: We're gonna come back to that topic and particularly how 147 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: do we provide the kit with which to train for 148 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: our military. But the other side of the short break 149 00:09:41,640 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: with Captain Jim Final stated, please welcome back. We're visiting 150 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: with the co author of Embracing Communist China, America's Greatest 151 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: strategic Failure. That would be Captain James Finel, United States Navy, retired, 152 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: a member of our Committee on the Present Danger of 153 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: China and an incalculably important analyst and well, I think 154 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: commentator on what is the state of our Navy and 155 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: more broadly, our national security in a dangerous world made 156 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: the more dangerous by the Chinese Communist Party's unprecedented military 157 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: build up, which I feel constrained to say, once again, folks, 158 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: you're paying for through Wall Street's sluicing of your pension 159 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: funds and the like to the CCP. Even now under 160 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: these circumstances. One of the things that the Chinese have 161 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: done with our immense confusions of cash, as you know, Captain, 162 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: and have weren't repeatedly about, is building up this unprecedented 163 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: ship building capability, the throughput of which I think could 164 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: only be compared to what the United States had when 165 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: it was the arsenal of democracy back in World War 166 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: Two and was turning out liberty ships. These relatively small relationships, 167 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: I think a day everyone that was running off off 168 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: the shipyard lines. Ship Building is not something we're in 169 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: much of a position to do, and we've not really 170 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: had the leadership that was intent on doing what we 171 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: could to this point. Give us again a situation report 172 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: on all of that, if you would serve both the 173 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: physical plant, the industrial base we need, as well as 174 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: the leadership that's reportable. 175 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 3: Well, Frank, the last when I joined the Navy and 176 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: got commissioned in nineteen eighty six, we had about six 177 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: hundred ships in the US Navy. Today we have two 178 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 3: hundred and ninety five. In that same time span of 179 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: the PLA Navy the People's Liberation Army. Navy went from 180 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: being a coastal defense brown water force of World War 181 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 3: two vintage craft into the largest superpower navy in the 182 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 3: world today. And just in twenty twenty four, China produced 183 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 3: and launched over one hundred and ten thousand tons of ships. 184 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: They produced a fifty thousand ton Type seven six dual 185 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: amphibious helicopter carrier and launched dock launched launching amphibious transport 186 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: vehicles in the same platform, and it contains electromagnetic aircraft 187 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: launch system, the first amphibious warship in the world to 188 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: have that. So they now have two platforms that have this. 189 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 3: They've produced numbers of cruisers, they've expanded their TYPO five 190 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: to five, so they've dramatically built up this name. While 191 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: we have been struggling in our shipbuilding industry. In the 192 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: commercial sector, we produce point two percent of the world's 193 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: commercial ships, whereas China, Japan, and Korea produced ninety percent 194 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 3: of the world ships, and of that China produces fifty percent. 195 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 3: Their shipbuilding capacity is two hundred and thirty two times 196 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: more than the United States. So we're in dire straits 197 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: as a nation as we neglected this vital, important requirement 198 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: for so many years. 199 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: Could I just as you to address one point quickly 200 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: and then back to the main topic here. But it's 201 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: not just tonnage. It's not just numbers of ships. It's 202 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: the quality of these ships and the weapons they are 203 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: able to deploy that is also very concerned. 204 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: That's correct. 205 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 3: The technology in their ships is on par and in 206 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 3: some cases greater than ours, for instance, and anti ship 207 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: cruise missiles. They have superior anti ship cruise missiles, in 208 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: anti ship ballistic missiles than we do, longer range three 209 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 3: hundred kilometers plus, and they are supersonic and some are 210 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 3: even hypersonic. So it's not just tonnage, but tonnage matters, 211 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: capabilities matter, and intentions and the strategic trend line that 212 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: has gone up for thirty years like this while ours 213 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: has gone like this. So we're in a dire situation. Unfortunately, 214 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: this president has taken some good actions up front. He 215 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: has announced that he's created the Office of Shipbuilding in 216 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: the White House. He's created or he's put out an 217 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: executive order entitled Restoring America's Maritime Dominance, and he selected 218 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: a new Secretary of the Navy who just came out 219 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: this week and gave a speech at a symposium where 220 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: he was talking about his intentions to rebuild our navy. 221 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: The last Secretary of the Navy gave some lip service 222 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: to it, but in real terms we continue to decline. 223 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: So I think really the challenge now before the nation 224 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 3: is we have a defense budget. It's going to be 225 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: just around a trillion dollars. The President announced this week 226 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: or this last week, and so the question is will 227 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: that trillion dollars be spent like it has for the 228 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: last thirty five years, predominantly on a force structure that 229 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: is needed in the Central Command Region to fight war 230 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria, ground warfare, 231 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: or are we going to reconstitute that money to build 232 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 3: the maritime force that we had let atrophy. If we're 233 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 3: going to defend ourselves against the superpower like China, we 234 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: have to have a balance between landforces and naval forces. 235 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, while our navy is still strong, it is 236 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: not up to the challenge to be able to not 237 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: only deter the PRC. We haven't deterred them in any way, 238 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: shape or form in the last thirty years. In the 239 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: Indo Pacific. But we're not able to succinctly say to 240 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 3: ourselves with confidence that if we had to fight, we 241 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: could defeat them. And we need to turn that around 242 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: because China can understand that weakness and they will come 243 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 3: after it. So we're in the process of selecting a 244 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 3: new Chief of Naval Operations. Lot's been written over the 245 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 3: last week or two from leading experts on this, friends 246 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: of the Navy and inside the Navy. But we need 247 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: to make sure and the President needs to make sure 248 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 3: that he's picking somebody that's not going to take no 249 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 3: for an answer, isn't going to take status quo as 250 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: an answer, and so that means we may have to 251 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 3: go outside of the normal system and pick somebody maybe 252 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: like we did with the Zumwalt back. 253 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: During the Vietnam War. 254 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 3: Now, a lot of people didn't like what Zumwalt did, 255 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: but he was a deep select that changed the course 256 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: and the way the Navy was oriented. We need to 257 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: get back to being the strongest navy on the planet 258 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: and that requires a strong Chief of Naval Operations that 259 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: will marry up with this strong sect nav and then 260 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: a president who is whipping the Congress to provide the 261 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 3: funds that are necessary. It's a big task, but if 262 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: we don't start now, we're not going to be in 263 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: good shape. 264 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jim, there's so much to unpack there, and I 265 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: appreciate your insights into the leadership piece of this, because 266 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: it's obviously the case that you could have the best 267 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: shipbuilding industrial base in the world and we don't. That 268 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: enemy does, but without the leadership to bring it to 269 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: bear effectively, you're still dead in the water, I think 270 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: is the technical term for it, Isn't it? In that connection, sir? 271 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: Could I just ask you? And this is a much 272 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: longer answer, I know than we've got time for about 273 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: two minutes or so. But there's a lot of talk, 274 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: Jim that big deck ships, surface vessels are a thing 275 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: of the past. Is an answer to the shipbuilding challenge. 276 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: We face the possibility of having much more proliferated, smaller, 277 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: into some cases, perhaps unmanned vessels picking up the slack. 278 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: I think that is frank right now. 279 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 3: The current debate that's going on, and there's a large 280 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 3: push for this what they're calling the Replicator initiative that 281 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 3: produces these small drones. But if you listen to experts 282 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 3: I would call him an expert the current command or 283 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 3: the end of Pacific Command. He has talked about the 284 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: tyranny of distance and how big the water is in 285 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 3: the Pacific. It's massive. It's over half of the Earth's surface. 286 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 3: People don't really recognize that. And so the need for 287 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 3: and the continued use of large deck ships, whether they're 288 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 3: the cruisers or our aircraft carriers or helo aircraft carriers, 289 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 3: they're needed and we're going to still have to have those. 290 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 3: There's going to be technologies that will help us defend 291 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: ourselves against these ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. That has 292 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 3: to continue, but we need to be able to do both. 293 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 3: We need to have surface ships that can fire, We 294 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: need to have more submarines, and that we need to 295 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 3: have these smaller platforms. The drones aren't going to have 296 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: long duration as a normal ship, and they won't have 297 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 3: the range as a normal surface ship or submarine. 298 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: So we have to integrate all of that. 299 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 3: We have to come up with a new way of 300 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 3: doing this, and that's a difficult task. 301 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: It's a task to which I profoundly hope you will 302 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: be contributing with your insights and acumen developed over decades 303 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: of service to our country and uniform, and now in 304 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: your role as the patriarch of Red Swarm Isen, a 305 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: fabulous resource online, but of us privileged to participate in 306 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Jim Finel, thank you for joining us week upon week. 307 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for not least 308 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: for your terrific book Embracing Communist China, America's greatest strategic failure. 309 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again soon, my friend, God blessed. 310 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: Welcome home. We'll be very back, folks. Stay tuned for 311 00:19:48,880 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: more straight out. We're back, and I'm delighted to say 312 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: I think for the first time we have Sheriff Richard 313 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: Mack with us, a man who has twenty years of 314 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: experience in law enforcement, eight years as a sheriff, I 315 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: believe out in his native state of Utah. He has, 316 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: among other distinctions, the credit of being the first sheriff 317 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: to sue the federal government, taking his case all the 318 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: way to a successful outcome in the United States Supreme Court. 319 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: The upshot of it, among other things, was the institution 320 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: of the Constitutional Sheriffs Organization he founded and is still 321 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: very very active with. We're delighted to visit with him 322 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: both about the mission of constitutional sheriffs, what they are 323 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: doing at the moment, and what they and frankly law 324 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: enforcement more generally should be about in the challenging times 325 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: in which we find ourselves. It's a delight to have 326 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: Richard Mack with us, Sheriff. Thank you so much for 327 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: joining us. Welcome to Secure in America. 328 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 4: It is my privilege. Thanks so much for having me 329 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 4: at this crucial time in American history. We've got a 330 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 4: lot of work to do. 331 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: We do, indeed, and I think you're a big part 332 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: of the work getting done. Give us just a little 333 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: bit more texture on both your suit and the organization 334 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: that you established in this aftermath Constitutional Sheriffs. 335 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 4: Well, I had an epiphany happened to me while I 336 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: was writing A Lady at Ticket back. I started my 337 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 4: police career in Utah, but I'm from Arizona, and Arizona Sheriff. 338 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 4: I actually moved home miraculously, just my wife and I 339 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 4: just had an epiphany that we were supposed to move 340 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 4: home and run for sheriff in our hometown and Safford, Arizona, 341 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 4: which is Graham County. 342 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: And when I was. 343 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 4: Right at a Lady Ticket, I realized that being a 344 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 4: tax collector or revenue agent was not what law enforcement 345 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 4: was supposed to be doing. And so I said, okay, 346 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 4: I'm going I'm going to repent, and I'm going to 347 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 4: find out why we have government and why we have 348 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: law enforcement, and why we do the things we do 349 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 4: to people instead of really being a public servant and 350 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 4: a helper to people. And so I ran smack in 351 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 4: the face of the oath of office that I took 352 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 4: when I took my job. I looked at the oath 353 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 4: over and over, and I said, there is no way 354 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 4: that I can keep that oath if I don't know 355 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 4: the Constitution of the United States. 356 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: And so I started actually have to defend the Constitution 357 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: of the United States. At how are you. 358 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 4: Going to defend something you never read, you know? So 359 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 4: that's what I fo That's what I came face to 360 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 4: face with. And so I started studying the Constitution. In fact, 361 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 4: I kept the World Book Encyclopedia under US Constitution in 362 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 4: my patrol car, and anytime I wasn't on a call, 363 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 4: I was reading and studying about my oath of office 364 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 4: and the Constitution and the intent of the founding fathers. 365 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 4: And I took a class that was offered to law 366 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 4: enforcement across the state of Utah, and two hundred and 367 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: forty of us were there, called the Constitution for law Enforcement, 368 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 4: and I teach the same thing now. I teach a 369 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 4: class called the Constitution for law Enforcement. And we've done 370 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 4: that all across America. And we've done it with sheriffs 371 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: and public officials and cops, and not very many chiefs 372 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 4: of police because they're political appointees and their bureaucrats and 373 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 4: they they have to please the city council. 374 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: And I don't need to tell you, sir, but just 375 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: for the benefit of our audience, obviously, the sheriffs in 376 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: our constitutional republic have unique responsibilities. They're elected, they have 377 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: been I think historically closer to the people as a 378 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: result than our police, you know, captains and so on. 379 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: Could you just describe the difference between constitutional sheriffs and 380 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: the rest of them. Are they unconstitutional or are they 381 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: just not with the importance of the constitution? How do 382 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: you see the differencer. 383 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 4: Well, the difference is those who actually take their oath 384 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 4: of office seriously. And it's a shame that we can't 385 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 4: that we can't say all of them do all of 386 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 4: them should Sheriff Rick Aldridge in Utah a number of 387 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 4: years ago was asked by a reporter, are you a 388 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 4: constitutional sheriff? And he says, yes, aren't we all supposed 389 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 4: to be? And that was probably the best answer right there. 390 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 4: If you swear an oath in God's name, so help 391 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 4: me God, you would think that that would be something 392 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 4: that you would take seriously. But many sheriffs are afraid 393 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 4: of this. They're afraid it's going to cause too much controversy. 394 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 4: Keeping your oath is something they're afraid to do because 395 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 4: it might cause controversy. It is the foundation of our country, 396 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 4: and we cannot secure our constitution or civil rights for 397 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 4: every American if those at law enforcement don't even understand 398 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 4: what form of government we have. You just mentioned it 399 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 4: a constitutional republic. We're not a democracy, or at least 400 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 4: we're not supposed to be. We're not a socialistic country 401 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 4: were at least we're not supposed to be. And we're 402 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 4: certainly not a communist country, which is what we we 403 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 4: thought about how many wars to prevent. 404 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: So despite a lot of people who want it to 405 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: be one, that's for sure. Yeah, let me just get 406 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 1: drilled down on a couple of specifics in the remaining 407 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: few minutes we have with you, sir, and we'll have 408 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: you back from. 409 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 4: Let me reiterate one other thing that the sheriff only 410 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 4: has one boss, one supervisor, and it's the people in 411 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 4: his county. It's not another committee. His his boss is 412 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 4: the people in his county, his constituents. So I want 413 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 4: to make that clear. 414 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: That oath of office, if I'm not mistaken, talks about 415 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States against 416 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: all enemies foreign and domestic. Yes, am I correct on 417 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: that point. That is correct, Okay, So I want to 418 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: focus in again in the remaining few minutes we have 419 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: with you for today on the enemies domestic. As you 420 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: know so well, sir, we have seen ten million, i 421 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: think a conservative estimate of aliens come illegally into our country. 422 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that all of them are necessarily enemies, 423 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: but I think there's no doubt that some of them are. 424 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: I've been particularly concerned about unaccompanied military aged Chinese nationals 425 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: men who are now here in apparently tens of thousands. 426 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about how you see 427 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: the role of constitutional sheriffs like yourself in contending with 428 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: the threat obviously that that would represent to us from within. 429 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 4: Well, certainly that is a law enforcement problem, and we 430 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 4: have had numerous murders, numerous attempted murders all across the country, rapes, 431 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 4: child abuse, child trafficking. The United States government under the 432 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 4: Biden administration couldn't account for three hundred and fifty thousand children. 433 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 4: And I can tell you exactly where those children went. 434 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 4: They were sold by some of their family so that 435 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 4: they could pay for their entry into America, from the cartels, 436 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 4: from the human traffickers, from the coyotes. The others were 437 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: maybe perhaps just lost, but most of them were human 438 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 4: trafficked into sex slavery all across the world. And that's 439 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 4: where those children are. And we can thank the Biden 440 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 4: administration for that. Say that again, yes, yes, And so 441 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 4: when you have that kind of evil backdrop to all 442 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 4: of this, the politicians were promoting that, and not only that, 443 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 4: but the eleven million you're talking about it is probably 444 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 4: closer to thirty million. And why were the Democrats so 445 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 4: hell bent on bringing people into our country. It was 446 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 4: one reason, and one reason only. It was to adjust 447 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 4: the voter roles for Democrats so that they could have 448 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 4: a monopoly on power in this country. And so yes, 449 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 4: there's been there. Right now is the epitome of voter 450 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 4: fraud because these people were given drivers licenses. Sheriffs even 451 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 4: assisted in that in Minnesota, making sure that these people 452 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 4: got social Security numbers and financial help and support, and 453 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 4: free healthcare, free jobs, free everything, free food, everything which 454 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 4: isn't free, all supported by the expayers of this country. 455 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 4: And then taking into consideration the gangs from Latin America, 456 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 4: the cartels and the Sinaloa cartels, and the trend from Venezuela. 457 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 4: These people showed who they are, and they showed what 458 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 4: they're doing, and the Democrats are still doubling down on 459 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 4: keeping these people in our country and so astonishing. 460 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: One of the things that you didn't enumerate there, but 461 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: that of course is very much supportive of your thesis here, 462 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: is that in state after state after state across the country, 463 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: you get a driver's license, you can register to vote, 464 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: registered to vote, and people have done so and are 465 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: on the voter rolls now and in some cases we 466 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: know have been actually voting illegal. 467 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 4: They voted, they've been voting they're not. 468 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: Entitled to do so, Sir so we're almost out to talk. 469 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 4: Sure that they were eating registered even back during his administration. 470 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, this is obviously a long term plan 471 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: and one that has had profound implications for the country already, 472 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,959 Speaker 1: let alone what it entails for our elections going forward. 473 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: We're just about out of time, Sheriff Richard Mack, and 474 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: I regret that we haven't covered more in the space 475 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: of it. I hope you will come back for a 476 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: longer conversation very soon, sir, because we definitely not only 477 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: need to support I think what you have been doing 478 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: with the constitutional sheriffs, we needed to learn more about 479 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: it and how people can help. So thank you for 480 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: your service to our country, both in uniform and now 481 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: out of it, working with these constitutional sheriffs. God bless you. 482 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: Keep it up. 483 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 4: I'm a lot busier now, and anybody can go to 484 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 4: our website at CSPUA dot org. Join us and be 485 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 4: a part of this American solution. 486 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: We are out of time, Thank you, sir. We'll be 487 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: right back for stay tuned, Welcome back. We're going to 488 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: switch gears a little bit. We're going to talk next 489 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: about the Middle East with one of our most revered 490 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: duty experts on the subject, David wormser I want to 491 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: introduce the subject, though with a few thoughts of my own. 492 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: As Egypt switched sides for over five decades, successive Egyptian 493 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: governments have received enormous amounts of US foreign aid and 494 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: military assistance, essentially rewards for making peace with Israel and 495 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: for remaining generally aligned with American regional policy and interests. 496 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: We had a taste of what could happen to this 497 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: arrangement when Barack Obama encouraged the toppling of longtime ally 498 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: president Hosni Mubarik and the Muslim Brotherhood came to power 499 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: in Egypt. Fortunately, the Brother's regime was overthrown before it 500 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: fully imposed Sharia law and threw in with Israel's enemies. 501 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: Now Egypt's government is violating the peace treaty with Israel 502 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: by massing forces in the Sinai. Its recently conducted air 503 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: and naval exercises respectively with China and Russia, and improved 504 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: relations with Iran, and it has released the top Muslim 505 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: brothers from jail. These manifest the strategic equivalent of tectonic shifts. 506 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: Brace for impact. We're going to talk about that potential 507 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: impact with doctor David wormser one of the guys we 508 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: turned to well religiously, I guess, I might say, because 509 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: of his incredible acumen and insights about all things in bold, 510 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: the Middle East much else. He has served in very 511 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: senior positions in the State Department, the National Security Council, 512 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: and the Office of the Vice President. He's a retired 513 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: naval intelligence officer who rose through the ranks to that 514 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: of a lieutenant commander. He is these days senior analyst 515 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: and the director of the medi's programs at the Center 516 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: for Security Policy. Were always very honored to de him 517 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: with us. David, welcome back, Absolutely great to be back. Well, 518 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on this Egypt situation 519 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: first and foremost. David, our colleague and friend, Pessek Wiliky, 520 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: was on the program earlier in the week raising alarm 521 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: about this is the concern he's expressed and I have 522 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: just now overstated. Do you think. 523 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 5: No, Unfortunately, I think it's it's if anything understated. Egypt 524 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 5: right now has every sign is there. It's beginning to 525 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 5: streatchrategically shift orientation. We all count on the fact that 526 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 5: the billions of aid that we give Egypt and its 527 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 5: dependence in our military assistance and weaponry locks Egypt in 528 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 5: to our orbit. And indeed that was a good bet 529 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 5: through most of the last fifty years or so since 530 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 5: Sadat made that turn. But two things really have happened. 531 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 5: I mean, Egypt first of all, is losing control of 532 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 5: its military. Underneath, you see a great deal despite the 533 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 5: fact that it is opposed to Aridowan and the Muslim 534 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 5: Brotherhood a government of Aerdiwan. Underneath, the rise of the 535 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 5: Muslim Brotherhood in its rank and file of the military 536 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 5: is extensive, and unfortunately Egypt is not a fully functional state, 537 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 5: so that's expressing itself in military orientation more and more 538 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 5: towards the Muslim Brotherhood. The second thing is that under 539 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 5: Obama and then under Biden, the hostility toward Egypt because 540 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 5: of its overthrowing of the Muslim Brotherhood government in twenty 541 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 5: fourteen under a SiZ They never forgave him for that, 542 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 5: and they were focused on human rights and all sorts 543 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 5: of things that the Egyptian government sees this code for 544 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 5: an attempt to overthrow them. On top of it, all 545 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 5: their allies Saudi Arabia, there was a great deal of 546 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 5: hostility leveled at Saudi Arabia from the Biden team as well. 547 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 5: So they see the United States selling it, throwing its 548 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 5: allies under the bus, and they read the writing. 549 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,479 Speaker 1: On the wall. 550 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 5: So they started hedging, and they more and more drifted 551 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 5: toward Russia and China. And now they see such a 552 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 5: threat from the Muslim Brotherhood. They see the United States, 553 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 5: they see it moving in the right direction. 554 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 2: But they're worried. 555 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 5: They're worried what happens after President Trump. They're worried about 556 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 5: the fact that there's still no significant use of the canal, 557 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 5: which is money. Worried about the fact that Israel is 558 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 5: at war with the Palestinians, and they can't quite control 559 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 5: their own rank and file, which is Muslim Brotherhood oriented 560 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 5: Famasa's Muslim Brotherhood. So I think Egypt is trying to hedge. 561 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 5: But the problem is that in hedging, it actually deepens 562 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 5: its vulnerability to the Muslim Brotherhood, and it keeps chasing 563 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 5: this appeasement of them, And I'm afraid that at some 564 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 5: point it's going to lead to a dangerous circumstance where they, 565 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 5: in order to preserve their credibility domestically, will have to 566 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 5: confront Israel externally, and we've counted on the fact that 567 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 5: their dependence on the United States financially and militarily will 568 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 5: stop them from that. But at this point, with China 569 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 5: and Russia moving in, I think they're switching sides. 570 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: I think they're. 571 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 5: Seeing China as a better bet number one and number two, 572 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 5: especially if they have to go to war. The Sinai 573 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 5: is not that important compared to their survival of the 574 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 5: regime and their manhood. Essentially, by standing up to Israel 575 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 5: and only China would indulge that the United States wouldn't. 576 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 5: So I think you're seeing the shift that would be 577 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 5: the context within which Egypt could revert to a state 578 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 5: of war with Israel. 579 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: Let me tease this out just a little bit to 580 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: make sure I understand what you've said, David. You're saying 581 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: that essentially, despite President el Ceci's long history with the 582 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: Muslim Brotherhood and enmity towards them, that that's not necessarily 583 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: shared with the population, and the current makeup of the 584 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: military of Egypt in particular is now increasingly susceptible to 585 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: Muslim Brotherhood sympathies. 586 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 5: Is that just correct? He's losing the loyalty of the 587 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 5: military even though he's a military man. And look, it's 588 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 5: for two reasons. One is his behavior, but two also 589 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 5: the fact that just the rank and file is becoming 590 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 5: Muslim brotherhood. Egypt is probably one of the most sympathetic 591 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 5: to Muslim brotherhood as a population in the region. So 592 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 5: there's only so much you can misalign a government with 593 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 5: its people, even a dictatorship like his, and he knows it. 594 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 5: So his policy, i think is slowly to appease them, 595 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 5: appease them, to keep Turkey at bay because this is 596 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 5: an instrument of Turkey. So he knows that this strategic threat, 597 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 5: if he appeases it, maybe he can make it his 598 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 5: own rather than Turkey's. 599 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: We have to take a break to when we come back, 600 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: I want to talk more about that dynamic with Turkey, 601 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: the role it's playing in an upcoming webinar in which 602 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: you will be participating on the subject. Stay tuned, folks, 603 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: will be right back. Welcome back. We're visiting with doctor 604 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: David Wormser the Center for Security Policy. We're talking about, well, 605 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: what's happening in Egypt. Long regarded as a reliable partner 606 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: for the United States in the Middle East, the recipient 607 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: of immense amounts of money and arms, by the way 608 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: from US over the years. Is it the case, though, 609 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: that Egypt is switching sides at a very very portentious moment, 610 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: And David, you were talking about some demographic changes in 611 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: the nation of Egypt. The impact of the houthis essentially 612 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: shutting down the Suez Canal, the kind of tacking that 613 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 1: the LCC government is doing to try to stay to 614 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: ride the Tiger. I guess one might say, for fear 615 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: of being eaten. I did want to ask you to 616 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: connect the dots on Turkey in all of this. You 617 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: mentioned that the Turks are of course among the patrons 618 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: along with Cutter of the Brotherhood to the extent that 619 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: they could. I believe it's the case they would want 620 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: to bring the Brotherhood back to power. When it was 621 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: last in power, awful lot of Egyptians at a critical 622 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: moment took to the streets and you know, supported the 623 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: coup that LCC ran to get rid of Hvid Morsey, 624 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 1: then president Brotherhood President. So there's a lot of well 625 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: complexities and a lot of history here. Help us clarify 626 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: where things stand visa b this two critical polls. I 627 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: guess in the Middle East Egypt on the one hand, 628 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: Turkey on the other. 629 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, what you have is, yes, eleven years ago 630 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 5: there was the coup by a SiZ against the Muslim Brotherhood. 631 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 5: But you have to remember that the average Egyptian was 632 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 5: born only shortly after that. I mean, the median age 633 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 5: in Egypt is very low, so pretty much anybody under 634 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 5: the age of twenty five doesn't remember what it was 635 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,720 Speaker 5: like for a one year two years living under Morsey. 636 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 5: So the bitterness toward Morsey, which did lead to the 637 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 5: coup and some popular support for it, has now turned 638 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 5: into a great deal of popular support for the Muslim Brotherhood. 639 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 5: The second thing is these people. 640 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: Are even though it is technically registered as a terrorist organization, 641 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: it is registered as. 642 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,839 Speaker 5: A terrorist organization in Egypt and in the UAE and 643 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 5: other places that are aligned that were or are somewhat 644 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 5: aligned with Egypt. The thing is that that Tamas so 645 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 5: Egypt knows now that the Palestinian issue in Ramas are 646 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 5: essentially check mating Egypt. And that's one of the aspects 647 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 5: of the war. While Ramas leveled the or did the invasion, 648 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 5: is they tried to put Egypt on the spot, probably 649 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 5: in relation to Turkey's demands as well. Turkeys is second 650 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 5: master of Kamas, not only Iran. It's a dual hated organization, 651 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 5: so it serves many strategic purposes, and that's one of 652 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 5: them as well, was to put the government on the 653 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 5: spot with its own people who are sympathetic with the 654 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 5: Palestinians and are more and more Muslim Brotherhood jihadi supremacists, 655 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 5: so Sharia supremacists, so they they the Egyptian government has 656 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 5: to start taking a tougher line against Israel, but it 657 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 5: knows that will cause problems with the United States. So 658 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 5: at that point it has one of two choices. It 659 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 5: either turns to Turkey and gives up, but that Turkey 660 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 5: will probably just overthrow them if they do that, or 661 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 5: they turn to Russia and China. And you see China 662 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 5: and Russia. All this against the backdrop against a strategic 663 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 5: decision that he would rather confront Israel than confront the 664 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 5: forces that are attacking Israel as a common ally. And 665 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 5: if he confronts Israel that could lead to conflict. Then 666 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 5: he'll need somebody to fit the bill for him, and 667 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 5: that's China. At this point, China and Russia. All the 668 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 5: Russia's weaker after the fall of Syria. China An now 669 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 5: is the primary ally and there you have it. You 670 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 5: have Chinese troops in Egypt training in the Sinai one 671 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 5: hundred miles from the Suez Canal close to Israel, violation 672 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 5: of the peace treaty because the Sinai is supposed to 673 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 5: be a demil militarized zone without such equipment there. So 674 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 5: not only is Egypt, but China is. 675 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: So you're saying you have Chinese on the ground as 676 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: well as exercising in the airspace, well you have. 677 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 5: You certainly have lots of transports on the ground. Chinese 678 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 5: transports have landed, obviously bringing support equipment for some of 679 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 5: the air activity. The aircraft are landing in those air 680 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 5: bases as well, and this is very dangerous because the 681 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 5: United States is all over there. So we have the 682 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 5: Chinese right next to us and Chinese right next to Israel. 683 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: David, we've only got about a minute and a half left, 684 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: but just very quickly on this point. Pasqualiki has done 685 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: a powerful video on this subject. As I mentioned, he 686 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: visited with us about it earlier in the week as well. 687 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: When you look at what the totality is of the 688 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: military build up that Egypt is under taken in the 689 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: Sinai and now these exercises, naval exercises, but also of 690 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: course these exercises in the air of the sign. How 691 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: would you characterize the readiness of Egypt to go to 692 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: war with Israel? 693 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 5: Reasonably high readiness. They have advanced equipment, they're training all 694 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 5: the time, inasmuch as yeah, well it's our equipment. I mean, 695 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 5: we gave them F sixteen's. They have M one A 696 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 5: two tanks, Abrams tanks, they have the latest stuff. Yeah, 697 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 5: that's right, so they and they have a lot of them. 698 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 5: They have enormous amounts of it. None of it makes 699 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 5: sense unless you're looking at Israel as a threat. Now, true, 700 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 5: Turkey is in the south with Ethiopia and it's coming 701 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 5: up to the north, but that's not something that requires 702 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 5: a military of that size. There's only one purpose for 703 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 5: that military the way it's being organized, and that's to 704 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 5: attack Israel. And in their training and in their rhetoric, 705 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,319 Speaker 5: that's what they say they're doing. 706 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 2: They're not hiding it. 707 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 5: We're just not listening. 708 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: We're not listening. We're not reflecting it in adjustments to 709 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,840 Speaker 1: our policy, and arguably by so doing, especially with the 710 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: vacuum of power that the Chinese and Russians perceive. There, 711 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:28,439 Speaker 1: we are presumably signaling that Egypt can have its way 712 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: with Israel. I presume that your assessment would be that 713 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,959 Speaker 1: they would get rather badly beaten up were they. 714 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 2: To do that. 715 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,240 Speaker 1: But in this moment, when the Russians, well sorry the Russians, 716 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,360 Speaker 1: the Iranians and their proxies and so many others have 717 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: been aggressively pursuing the destruction of Israel, this is not 718 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: a good time to have the Egyptians piling on. 719 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:53,959 Speaker 2: David. 720 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: We have to leave it at that. I'm hard out 721 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: of time, I'm afraid, but come back soon. We need 722 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: you're up to it's urgently. Thank you to all of 723 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: you for joining us. I hope you will come back 724 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: next time. Until then, go forth and multiply m