Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascals Stand Up Tour continues throughout
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. For a full list of dates and tickets,
Speaker 1: go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour.
Speaker 1: See you out there, the Greig Ferguson show dot com
Speaker 1: slash Tour. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of
Speaker 1: this podcast is Joy. I talk to interest in people
Speaker 1: about what brings them happiness. Vetnico Brown is pure class.
Speaker 1: She's been my friend for a long time. She's a
Speaker 1: very good actress. She's a very serious person, and she's
Speaker 1: also a very funny person. It's a very interesting combination,
Speaker 1: is she is?
Speaker 2: I miss our time?
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, We're going to take care of
Speaker 1: that right now. Somebody's gonna bring coffee though, So you're
Speaker 1: gonna bring coffee?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, please, I'll take one too, now that you
Speaker 2: talk about it. Yes, I got a lot to do today, right.
Speaker 3: But we can start. But we can start before the
Speaker 3: coffee gets sure, that's fine. Do you know what? Why
Speaker 3: are you wearing a mask? Because Vet was wearing a mask,
Speaker 3: worn a mask in two days?
Speaker 1: Now? Are you wearing a nice.
Speaker 3: You want me to wear a mask?
Speaker 2: How, No, you can't do all we're on the radio.
Speaker 2: See how kind it was of him to just want
Speaker 2: to do that for me.
Speaker 1: They're nice guys. I'm just I just didn't know if
Speaker 1: there was a reason that he thought it's.
Speaker 2: A nice podcast situation in here too? You know, is
Speaker 2: this your studio?
Speaker 1: I own this whole buildings laughing because I just told
Speaker 1: you it's believable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he would be shipped poker, and I.
Speaker 2: Wish it was. Yeah, he giggled. He giggled. Why too fast?
Speaker 3: He giggled.
Speaker 1: He was like, because I do you think that I
Speaker 1: could own a whole building in Hollywood?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Do you know what?
Speaker 3: I would call it the vent? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you know why because I would want it to
Speaker 1: be like the auditorium in your old high school, which
Speaker 1: I have to say, congratulations. I can't believe you had
Speaker 1: the auditorium in your own high school named after because
Speaker 1: Cenio hallway to your high school.
Speaker 2: And he did. And I think if it's a Cenial Hall,
Speaker 2: you know what you have just made me feel like
Speaker 2: I need to rescind the offer. I'm going next week
Speaker 2: to get the honor and graduation thank you. No, it's
Speaker 2: really it's honestly, I joke about it, but it is
Speaker 2: like an oscar to me because I love my hometown
Speaker 2: and Warnswell Heights High School by the way, and our
Speaker 2: Sidney and I both graduated from there. He's got a
Speaker 2: few years on me, a couple of years on me,
Speaker 2: and he was in the Hall of Fame of my
Speaker 2: high school when I was a kid, and so I
Speaker 2: would walk by and see our city hall and dream
Speaker 2: of one day making it to where he was. And
Speaker 2: now I'm friends with him, and now the auditorium is
Speaker 2: going to be named for He's one of the best
Speaker 2: human beings I know.
Speaker 1: I did some gigs with him and Jaylan during the summer.
Speaker 1: We did some casino gigs together, and he's just great.
Speaker 2: He's just decent, you know how when you meet people.
Speaker 2: That's the word that I would use for him. He
Speaker 2: actually he doesn't get credit for this. He also has
Speaker 2: a hand in me finally meeting Jana Jackson. So I've
Speaker 2: been trying to meet Jana Jackson for so long, and
Speaker 2: finally I was like, who do I know that Gudner
Speaker 2: And I'm like, Enione knows everybody. So I reached out
Speaker 2: to him, and he said, I'm going to reach out
Speaker 2: to Johnny. It became like a what do you call it?
Speaker 2: A game of telephone? Evet Our Senior called Johnny, Johnny
Speaker 2: called Janet and it all kind of came together where
Speaker 2: they helped me.
Speaker 3: So now you and jen and Jackson hang out.
Speaker 2: I believe we're friends. Now you have to ask Janet
Speaker 2: if it's true.
Speaker 1: I would ask her, but I can't get to get
Speaker 1: in touch with our stdeo and he's going to Yeah.
Speaker 2: It works, it's a it's a good way.
Speaker 1: But listen, the school you went to. You you're from Cleveland, right,
Speaker 1: That's why I think of you as from Cleveland.
Speaker 2: I am from born in East Cleveland, graduated from Warrenswell Heights,
Speaker 2: which is like a suburb of East Cleveland or suburb.
Speaker 3: Of clic Is it near Akron?
Speaker 2: Akron is about thirty or forty minutes away, which is
Speaker 2: where I went to college.
Speaker 1: Because I knew there was a connection with you with Akron,
Speaker 1: because you know that Alcoholics Anonymous started in that.
Speaker 2: I did not know that. Yeah, I know Akron for
Speaker 2: my college. Yeah Zippers, which they are known for rubber.
Speaker 1: Yeah, rubber tho all the tire factories used to be right,
Speaker 1: that's right, and Lebron James and Lebron James.
Speaker 3: He's not in your high.
Speaker 2: School, you know, he's I wish I was his a
Speaker 2: I've got him by good twelve years, I think.
Speaker 1: Now let me ask you this. In the Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame at your high school, yes, you obviously, or senior
Speaker 1: hall who's not got the hall named after him, which
Speaker 1: I still think is a serious man problem.
Speaker 3: But who else is in the Hall of fame? Is
Speaker 3: there anything else? I would know?
Speaker 2: Brad Cellars okay, I'm not familiar with basketball.
Speaker 3: Player, okay.
Speaker 2: And also I think he's currently our mayor. I think
Speaker 2: Brad is currently still our mayor of Warrensville. And then
Speaker 2: a lot of like city dignitaries and pastors and you know,
Speaker 2: people like that, people that have made their name for themselves.
Speaker 3: It was like a very kind of good school.
Speaker 2: It is a good school.
Speaker 3: Was it a good experience growing up?
Speaker 2: It was? You know, I'm a nerd though, like I
Speaker 2: love I love school, So my school experience I was
Speaker 2: like front row center nerd, that kind of thing. I
Speaker 2: did all the extra curriculars. I was drama and the
Speaker 2: band and quiet you know, so that school was great
Speaker 2: for me. East Cleveland is a great place to be
Speaker 2: from because it's the hood. Yeah, and it teaches you,
Speaker 2: you know, how to survive in life. I think that
Speaker 2: I'm able to make it in la and in this
Speaker 2: industry because I was born bred and East Cleveland it's swamish.
Speaker 1: What does that look like in terms of the hood?
Speaker 1: It is like was there a drug crime?
Speaker 3: Was there? Is that what it was?
Speaker 4: At?
Speaker 2: Your drugs? Violence? You know a little bit of lawlessness.
Speaker 2: You know, listen, people people have free time and not
Speaker 2: enough opportunities. And when you when you when that's the situation,
Speaker 2: sometimes you you don't make the best decisions. And also,
Speaker 2: you know, we can talk about systemic racism and all
Speaker 2: the other things that cause something to be considered a
Speaker 2: hood and why people can't get out or why they
Speaker 2: can't make make it better for themselves. I never blame
Speaker 2: the people because it's their circumstances that put us in
Speaker 2: the communities brand.
Speaker 3: Every person is a different stories. Absolutely. I think that
Speaker 3: one of the things.
Speaker 1: That I have a kind of I got annoyed about
Speaker 1: and as I get older, there's a lot of them.
Speaker 1: Most of them are people on my loan but on
Speaker 1: my hip. But one of the things I get annoyed
Speaker 1: about is when is when you take a group of people,
Speaker 1: no matter who they are, and you just say this
Speaker 1: is what these people are, Like, I see.
Speaker 3: That's not it. That's not gonna help.
Speaker 2: It's not it.
Speaker 1: And I mean I come from a lively area in
Speaker 1: Scotland and Scotland and it wasn't race because you know,
Speaker 1: everyone was. There were people of other races, but it
Speaker 1: was like ninety eight percent. Wow, something like that, you know,
Speaker 1: and so violence if you were from a different race.
Speaker 1: I can't speak to that experience because I didn't grow
Speaker 1: up with that. But but mostly what I encountered was
Speaker 1: sectarian violence based on religion.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So it was Catholics and Protestants absolutely absolutely, and it
Speaker 1: was it. It feels to me that sometimes humans, when
Speaker 1: they've got nothing else to do, they pick a side.
Speaker 2: It's always a free time issue, right yeah, Because I
Speaker 2: think about the you know, the term Karens, like all
Speaker 2: the all the white women that are apparently deputized to
Speaker 2: stop black people from living. They don't have any real problems,
Speaker 2: they don't have any real problems, they don't have any
Speaker 2: real issues. And that's why they're looking out their window,
Speaker 2: going why is that person standing on the street. If
Speaker 2: you are trying to pay your bills and raise your
Speaker 2: kids and not die by police violence as a black person,
Speaker 2: you don't have time to look out and see what
Speaker 2: somebody on the street is doing. You're just literally trying
Speaker 2: to survive.
Speaker 1: You are as a person clearly right now, and I
Speaker 1: know this about you anyway. You are concerned with civic Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Do you think there is a world in which you
Speaker 1: run for office?
Speaker 2: Oh, Craig, you know it's funny. Before twenty sixteen, I
Speaker 2: would have said absolutely not, because I thought you had
Speaker 2: to be smarter, better, all of those things. I mean Now,
Speaker 2: after Donald Trump alone, after Donald Trump and all the
Speaker 2: nonsense going on in Congress right now, and McCarthy and
Speaker 2: Matt Gates, I'm seeing so many people that are making
Speaker 2: decisions for all of us that are not decent human beings.
Speaker 2: And the idea that people that only care about people
Speaker 2: that look like them, or love like them or think
Speaker 2: like them are deciding what happens to the rest of
Speaker 2: us that are not like them scares me. So now
Speaker 2: I'm saying, I don't know, like there might be.
Speaker 1: Should I think you should. Now here's here's why I
Speaker 1: think you should. Here's why because I sense your reluctance. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that to me is a qualifying mark for a politician.
Speaker 1: If you're reluctant to run for office, right yeah, and
Speaker 1: you probably and also you care, I do you know?
Speaker 1: And if you care, but you're reluctant to get in
Speaker 1: the fight. But you can't see anyway again, Now, the
Speaker 1: fact that's the hero's journey right there, that's like you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's Joseph Campbell right there.
Speaker 3: That's why you've been the call to.
Speaker 2: Action to action.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm and I'm here right now to say I'm
Speaker 1: one of the gatekeepers. I'm one of the I'm one
Speaker 1: of the you know, the information givers.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm saying I think it might be time.
Speaker 2: It might be I you know, I'm at a crossroads
Speaker 2: in my life. I just just I'm in my fifties now.
Speaker 1: And first of all, I don't believe that I am
Speaker 1: fifty two years old, just fifty moisturized.
Speaker 2: I believe in hydration, I guess, thank you any but yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm at the age where you're starting to go, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I'll probably have more runway behind me than in front
Speaker 2: of me, and so you start to look at what's
Speaker 2: the right So what do I want to do? Like,
Speaker 2: what is what's my legacy? Because I I'm not married yet,
Speaker 2: I have a sweetie and I'm hoping it's going that way,
Speaker 2: but I didn't have kids, so I don't have the
Speaker 2: the family legacy to say these are the this is
Speaker 2: the flag I'm putting down because these humans I helped
Speaker 2: put in the world. So now it becomes what how
Speaker 2: do I leave a legacy in another way? I believe
Speaker 2: I hope one of the ways is kindness. I hope
Speaker 2: that my calling card is kindness and when people are
Speaker 2: around me or leave my presence there better. I do
Speaker 2: believe that that that is one of the things I
Speaker 2: hope that I'll be known for when I leave here.
Speaker 2: But aside from that, you know, what did I do
Speaker 2: that changed the trajectory of this world in a good way?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of people want want to make a
Speaker 2: what's that saying? It says somebody people want to make
Speaker 2: a name for themselves, make a mark so bad they
Speaker 2: don't care if it's a stain that is. I don't
Speaker 2: know who said that quote, but that has always stuck
Speaker 2: with me. And I think in this industry in particular,
Speaker 2: people are so determined to be somebody, they don't care
Speaker 2: what they're.
Speaker 3: Somebody, but then somebody is.
Speaker 2: They don't care if they're hurting people, they don't care
Speaker 2: if they're lying to people. And we noticed that in
Speaker 2: what happened, you know, recently with the Congress. You know,
Speaker 2: McCarthy wanted to get in because he wanted to be speaker.
Speaker 2: He didn't want to be speaker because he wanted to
Speaker 2: do good. He didn't want to be speaker so that
Speaker 2: he could change people's lives to the better. He wanted
Speaker 2: to be speaker because of the clout and the power
Speaker 2: that would come from him being second in the line
Speaker 2: of succession.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he wanted those things when he
Speaker 1: started as a young and.
Speaker 3: You know, I would like to hold but.
Speaker 2: He has fallen so far from what I think decency
Speaker 2: is that I have to believe that he didn't, that
Speaker 2: he was never on the path to be a decent person,
Speaker 2: because in my mind, even if you start, if you
Speaker 2: started out decent and he had fallen on the wayside,
Speaker 2: as soon as you get that gavel and you realize
Speaker 2: the weight of it. If the President and vice president
Speaker 2: pass away, I'm in charge of this entire country, and
Speaker 2: I can show how I will govern based on how
Speaker 2: I handle these four hundred people that I'm the leader
Speaker 2: of here. And if you have that responsibility in your
Speaker 2: hand and you squander it and you lie and you
Speaker 2: stab people in the back, and you make promises that
Speaker 2: you don't keep, that tells me you could not have
Speaker 2: started it from a decent space.
Speaker 1: Look, just to play Devil's advocate, because we're not talking
Speaker 1: about an individual, Yes, I have a lot of time
Speaker 1: for but let me be the other site to do
Speaker 1: it and say that, isn't everyone in that world a liar?
Speaker 1: Isn't everyone in that world super ambitious?
Speaker 3: Everyone?
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems to me a lot of people
Speaker 1: have made promises that they didn't keep on both sides.
Speaker 3: Of the hut.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I got to say this though, And to be fair,
Speaker 2: politics is difficult and there are a lot of things
Speaker 2: that you run on that you want to do right.
Speaker 2: Like people are upset with Joe Biden because he had
Speaker 2: all these things he wanted to do that he couldn't
Speaker 2: get through. They're forgetting that how civics were the Congress
Speaker 2: has the power of the purse, which means they get
Speaker 2: to decide what becomes a bill, and then the Senate
Speaker 2: House decides becomes a bill. The Senate decides whether it
Speaker 2: goes to the president, and then the president gets just
Speaker 2: the bill. Yes, the school house walk, everybody listened to it.
Speaker 2: If you need to know how civics worked. So President
Speaker 2: Biden can say I want to do this, this, and this,
Speaker 2: but if he does not have the votes, because in
Speaker 2: this situation there were two Democrats that kept voting with
Speaker 2: the Republicans, which means he did not have the first
Speaker 2: part of his administration, he didn't have the numbers. So
Speaker 2: you have to understand that, yes he promised it, and
Speaker 2: yes he didn't deliver it, but you got to ask yourself,
Speaker 2: did he lie or was he thwarted?
Speaker 3: Well, here's what.
Speaker 1: I would say to you, and then I'm going to
Speaker 1: move you gently away from from politics.
Speaker 2: You got us here.
Speaker 1: No, no, I know, and I genuinely want to hear
Speaker 1: about it. But if you promise something that you know
Speaker 1: that you cant one hundred percent deliver, should you fast
Speaker 1: to that while you make the promise?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But I don't know that the ones that aren't delivering.
Speaker 2: I don't believe I guess I don't believe that the
Speaker 2: statement that all of them are duplicitous. I don't believe
Speaker 2: that they're going in going What can I say?
Speaker 3: You're right? I think you're right. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: Things happen, and I think sometimes you have to make
Speaker 2: good with one person to try to get further down
Speaker 2: the road on something else that matters. So I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of that going on to it. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's black and white, but I think there's
Speaker 2: a difference between choosing to be a horrible person, choosing
Speaker 2: power over people, and then having to make decisions to
Speaker 2: make greater change later.
Speaker 1: I like the idea of you can be a good
Speaker 1: person or a horrible person, but I think it seems
Speaker 1: to me as I observe, you know, inaccurately. I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of the time the human race that very
Speaker 1: few people will admit to be in the villain of
Speaker 1: their own story. So if someone is a horrible person,
Speaker 1: like you'll always find someone that.
Speaker 3: Will back you up. Like Hitler had a girlfriend, he did,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's not not that's you know,
Speaker 1: there's always someone that will say now you're right, or
Speaker 1: do you lose sight of things like if if somebody,
Speaker 1: if you find yourself in an ethical dilemma.
Speaker 3: Let let's say it's it's twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: Four, Benicle Brown and Speaker of the House, the president
Speaker 1: and the Vice president sadly get a terrible dose of
Speaker 1: the Trots off and now you're president of the United States.
Speaker 1: He died from the trucks truts. Yeah it's the Trotsky Trust.
Speaker 1: Yeah they got they got very very bad pooperia. They
Speaker 1: go pooperia.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think I think there may be an old
Speaker 1: law that you're not allowed to talk about the president, you.
Speaker 3: Know, dying.
Speaker 2: Is it really Are we in trouble right now?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: No, because it's a hypothetical president in the future. We
Speaker 1: said pooperia of the Trots. We did, so it's not
Speaker 1: like we're that's right, right. But anyway, anyway, I don't think.
Speaker 3: We're in trouble. But what I'm saying, I'm not you
Speaker 3: said someone saying you right.
Speaker 1: So now you're the president of the United States. Now
Speaker 1: you can do some things and you can't do other things.
Speaker 1: And the country is a similar state. That's what do
Speaker 1: you choose? What is your first option. What do you
Speaker 1: think this is the first thing we've got to get
Speaker 1: done right now.
Speaker 2: First thing we would have to get done is vot
Speaker 2: voting rights.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Probably the second thing, no matter how I got in office,
Speaker 2: I would get rid of the electoral college. I think
Speaker 2: one vote. Everybody should get one vote, and your vote
Speaker 2: should the person who gets the most votes should be president, period.
Speaker 2: And then that takes away all the shenanigans you Then
Speaker 2: you have to campaign in every state. You can't just
Speaker 2: pick the three or four of that. And I think
Speaker 2: everyone should get to meet you and kick the tires
Speaker 2: and find out what you're really about.
Speaker 3: So those are two things.
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any really I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's a rational thing, right, But let's let's look
Speaker 1: at democracy a little bit, because it's brutal.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: Democracy is a very brutal system.
Speaker 1: It is, you know, if it is the majority want
Speaker 1: a thing, and if that thing is hateful and the
Speaker 1: majority want it, then democracy wants a hateful thing. Is
Speaker 1: not inherently there's no inherent goodness to it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's better than anything else we have light a run,
Speaker 1: but it's not feel proof.
Speaker 2: Well, Listen, There's been a few times in my life
Speaker 2: as a voter that the person I wanted to win
Speaker 2: did not win. It sucks, but I accepted it. So
Speaker 2: it's not so much that you have to get everything
Speaker 2: you want every time. You just want a shot at
Speaker 2: getting what you want. That's what democracy is. I'm going
Speaker 2: to go out and I'm going to vote, and I
Speaker 2: hope that enough people think like me and this person
Speaker 2: or this this thing can get in right and then
Speaker 2: if it doesn't, most people, barring the orange thing, accept
Speaker 2: it and they say I lost and it sucks, but
Speaker 2: I'm going to now get behind the person that one
Speaker 2: or the issue that one, and I'm going to support it.
Speaker 2: So I think we're broken right now because now we
Speaker 2: say yeah, we say that, yeah, and it's angry, but yeah.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, if we get back to I
Speaker 2: am my brother and sister's keeper, I think we lost that.
Speaker 2: If we get back to thinking like that. I say
Speaker 2: this all the time when I talk about politics, and
Speaker 2: then we can't move on after this. I don't have
Speaker 2: any kids, right, but if there's a school board issue
Speaker 2: on the on the ballot, I vote for it because
Speaker 2: I want other people's kids to have what they need.
Speaker 2: There are future You're not a month.
Speaker 3: Absolutely no.
Speaker 2: But there's some people that are like, if I don't
Speaker 2: have kids, why am I voting for a better schools?
Speaker 2: I don't have kids. You see what I'm saying. There
Speaker 2: are a lot of people that vote that way. So
Speaker 2: it's like, you have to think of the greater good
Speaker 2: of other people.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember having a discussion with a family member by that.
Speaker 1: I said I shouldn't have to pay for their you know,
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was.
Speaker 3: And I was like, no, no, no, you do have any different.
Speaker 3: That's that's the deal.
Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascals Stand Up To continues throughout
Speaker 1: the United States in twenty twenty four. For a full
Speaker 1: list of dates and tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson
Speaker 1: Show dot com slash tour se you have that, I know,
Speaker 1: are you religious person?
Speaker 2: I am person faith.
Speaker 1: You're a Christian Christian. So if you're a Christian and
Speaker 1: many people, a lot of people profess to.
Speaker 2: Be Christians and are not following christ I talk.
Speaker 1: I think that that, Well, that's that's your thing, you know,
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing I'm interested by the way Christianity.
Speaker 1: I've I've been looking at it a lot because I'm
Speaker 1: not my person of faith. No, I'm a person of doubt,
Speaker 1: which is almost a passion.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the same thing it really is, because
Speaker 2: faith is about seeing believing things that you can't see.
Speaker 2: And also God doesn't have a problem with you doubting.
Speaker 2: Like there's moments in the in the Bible where it's
Speaker 2: like people are saying, Lord, please show me, Please make
Speaker 2: it plain to me. So the fact he knows this
Speaker 2: is difficult things to grasp. Man, something in the sky
Speaker 2: made everything, and you know it's it's hard to grasp.
Speaker 2: I just look at my life and know how miraculous
Speaker 2: everything that has happened for me has been. And I
Speaker 2: am not a person of ego, So the person of
Speaker 2: ego will go, look what I did. I absolutely know
Speaker 2: that there's no way I could have crafted this or
Speaker 2: my life. The fact that I am talking to Craig
Speaker 2: Ferguson in la in his very, very exactly I could
Speaker 2: not have fashioned this. There's nothing within me that could
Speaker 2: have brought me to this place. So I know that
Speaker 2: I'm walking in my call, and I know that it's
Speaker 2: a call that was placed on me. Now that's my faith. Now,
Speaker 2: everybody got to work it out their own way, but
Speaker 2: I know that to be true for me.
Speaker 3: I think that's fine.
Speaker 1: I know I've glad to find myself at the point
Speaker 1: in my life where I don't have to challenge anyone
Speaker 1: believe same right.
Speaker 3: But what I am in, I am interested though in
Speaker 3: what you believe? Does it for?
Speaker 1: Are you a person of a recognized church? Is there?
Speaker 1: Are you a Catholic? Are you a Baptist?
Speaker 2: But are Baptist? But I'll say this, when I was younger,
Speaker 2: like in my twenties and thirties, I was there every
Speaker 2: time the church open every day with what we're doing today,
Speaker 2: and I've gotten to a point now where it's more
Speaker 2: of a spiritual journey than a religious journey for me.
Speaker 2: So it's not so much.
Speaker 3: About I find the difference.
Speaker 2: Spirituality is having in your own relationship with God or
Speaker 2: with Jesus for me, in God and Jesus for me,
Speaker 2: and religion is more about go to church on Sunday.
Speaker 2: You have to do this, you have to worry.
Speaker 3: It's more.
Speaker 2: It's tradition, it's more, and a lot of the stuff
Speaker 2: that churches do is not in the Bible, you know,
Speaker 2: Jesus said we're two or three are gathered. I'm there also,
Speaker 2: we are the church. The fact that we're having a
Speaker 2: conversation about him right now, Church is happening right here.
Speaker 2: So this idea that we have to be in a
Speaker 2: specific building to I don't know that I believe in
Speaker 2: that anymore. Now. I'm not against going to church. I'm
Speaker 2: not against having the gathering of saints and getting a
Speaker 2: good word. But I also realized the more I went
Speaker 2: to church out here, the word started to change because
Speaker 2: they were trying to curry the favor of man instead
Speaker 2: of respecting and honoring God. So it became more about
Speaker 2: what can I say to get butts in these seats?
Speaker 2: So I can give money and you have to say
Speaker 2: certain things to get butts in the seats, And then
Speaker 2: it's less about how can I be able love money?
Speaker 2: For the love of money, people forget that. They think
Speaker 2: it's money.
Speaker 3: It's not money. It's fine just if you love it absolutely.
Speaker 2: It's the love. And also speaking of that, a lot
Speaker 2: of Christians who say there are Christians don't love. If
Speaker 2: you look at a lot of the evangelicals that are
Speaker 2: following Donald Trump, and Maga and all that they hate everybody.
Speaker 2: They hate everybody and everything.
Speaker 3: Westboro Baptists speaker, How.
Speaker 2: Can you say you're following Christ and you hate people.
Speaker 3: It's a tricky one.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you kind of work it out,
Speaker 1: but my guess is that it's probably to do with
Speaker 1: the lack of understanding of what's the teachings of Christ?
Speaker 2: Was ye are?
Speaker 3: I should say?
Speaker 1: I became fascinated with Christianity in the journal Lockdown, I think,
Speaker 1: m M.
Speaker 3: And I started reading you ever read any C. S Lewis?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: I started reading C. S. Lewis and C.
Speaker 1: S Lewis, why what is it what Christians believe? And
Speaker 1: then I read Bertrand Russell's counteraction to that, which is
Speaker 1: why I'm not a Christian? And I was like, it's
Speaker 1: not a great argument, Bertrand, I mean, you're a very
Speaker 1: clever man, principal Mathema, very clever, but I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that I'm And then from C. S. Lewis, I went
Speaker 1: in a GK. Chursterton Have you been there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That GK. Chstone is kind of like the velvet underground
Speaker 1: for C. S.
Speaker 3: Lewis.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, they're fascinating Christian apologists, and so I thought,
Speaker 1: I just I just started reading about it, and it
Speaker 1: led me into pre Roman church Christianity, which have now
Speaker 1: become fascinated, which is obviously up until the three hundred
Speaker 1: years before Rome adopted Christianity. And what I think about
Speaker 1: it now is that Rome adopting Christianity is kind of
Speaker 1: like Starbucks opening a store at burning Man, Like it
Speaker 1: changed the face everything. Because the Romans thought that the
Speaker 1: Christians were atheists. Really, yeah, they've already got one god.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, right, you know, you gotta have one god.
Speaker 1: What about you know, the God for your hand, right
Speaker 1: and the God for cheese? And I mean because they
Speaker 1: had so many different gods. So and they had a
Speaker 1: they thought. This is the thing about propaganda. They thought
Speaker 1: the Christians were cannibals because they misunderstood the Eucharist. And
Speaker 1: it's like, so when they're saying this is my body,
Speaker 1: this is eating people quick right now up to they're
Speaker 1: very bad. And I think that mess. Clearly Christians are
Speaker 1: not cannibals or most of them that, but mess information
Speaker 1: makes behave people behave very badly. Absolutely, And we live
Speaker 1: in an interesting time, my dear friend, Yes we do.
Speaker 1: In the sense that there is information everywhere, and most
Speaker 1: of it is horses is.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you something. I found my way down
Speaker 2: a YouTube rabbit hole. Oh gosh. And you know, I
Speaker 2: finally get the algorithm because when I first got on YouTube,
Speaker 2: I was picking what I wanted to see. And then
Speaker 2: one day I woke up and realized that I hadn't
Speaker 2: picked in hours. That YouTube was just and it wasn't
Speaker 2: even like the same person, Like the third video from
Speaker 2: the same person. They were like, oh, you like her, Okay,
Speaker 2: let me show you him. Oh you like him, okay,
Speaker 2: let me show you this. And then by the time
Speaker 2: I woke up at midnight, I was on something that
Speaker 2: I never would have chosen. It was like bits and
Speaker 2: pieces of what I started with. And had I probably
Speaker 2: watched the transgression of where they were taking me a
Speaker 2: progression of where they were taking me, I probably would
Speaker 2: have been brainwashed into believing that whatever that person at
Speaker 2: two am was saying was the God's honest truth, because
Speaker 2: I'd gotten little kernels of other nonsense from all these
Speaker 2: other people that they chose for me.
Speaker 3: How you protect yourself from it?
Speaker 2: Now, you know, I'm realizing what it is like, I'm
Speaker 2: realizing that this is entertainment. Yeah, and these people, I
Speaker 2: think somebody they think that when you see the sher
Speaker 2: microphone in front of someone and ring light and they
Speaker 2: have theme music. Now, these little talkers, they have their
Speaker 2: own theme music influence, right, And you see it and
Speaker 2: it looks like a television show. And back when I
Speaker 2: was a kid, you had to have some substance to
Speaker 2: have a television show. You had to know what you
Speaker 2: were talking about to have a television show. So you're
Speaker 2: watching it and you're going, oh, but wait, this is
Speaker 2: someone in their their bedroom with a two hundred dollars
Speaker 2: mic they bought. And that doesn't mean what they're saying
Speaker 2: is true, right, So I just look at it now
Speaker 2: as entertainment.
Speaker 1: I think I think of it as well as a
Speaker 1: little bit like when people get themselves into trouble by
Speaker 1: saying something ill advised, perhaps perhaps clumsily thinking they're funny. Sometimes,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever noticed this, Sometimes people
Speaker 1: think they're funny, and they're all funny.
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks they everybody thinks they're funny.
Speaker 3: It's the craziest thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're laughing at their own job.
Speaker 3: I know. It's a thing.
Speaker 1: But when somebody gets into trouble, I think you see now,
Speaker 1: this is why you have a producer.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Did you ever meet Peter la Sally who was He
Speaker 1: was my producer at the Late Night Show.
Speaker 3: I had to them, said, but Peter was. Peter was
Speaker 3: an extraordinary story.
Speaker 1: He was an older gentleman and he was captured by
Speaker 1: the Nazis with German jew He was in the concentration
Speaker 1: camps he managed to have he was in the same
Speaker 1: class as Anne Frank.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I mean like a horrendous story. But his family made
Speaker 1: it to the United States and he got into show
Speaker 1: business eventually through a series of adventures in America. Being America,
Speaker 1: he becomes Johnny Carson's producer for thirty five years Tonight Show,
Speaker 1: and then you know, his career goes in the dol
Speaker 1: drums and he has to produce me.
Speaker 2: I will not allow it. I will not allow it.
Speaker 1: Now, Peter is it was was a fabulous The point
Speaker 1: is he understood the talk and Late Night was was
Speaker 1: the beginning of YouTube. I think you know that kind
Speaker 1: of talking directly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And he would say to me sometimes out
Speaker 1: of a joke, and because you know you're bullishing in your
Speaker 1: commedian thing, I'm going to do the.
Speaker 3: Joke, Pete. And you go, really cause we get it tomorrow. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and don't do it. It's another joke. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 3: that great a joke. And this is how long ago
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 1: He would say, Look, just don't say anything that make
Speaker 1: the people that Pete get mad.
Speaker 2: You don't want that dog, you don't want it.
Speaker 3: Do you have animals?
Speaker 2: I do have a dog, Yes I do. I just
Speaker 2: had a moment when you were talking where I was.
Speaker 2: I got a little misty that we didn't find each
Speaker 2: other earlier, because I'm sad that I only got to
Speaker 2: do your show that one time, Like we've done a
Speaker 2: thousand different things since then, but once because I couldn't
Speaker 2: get arrested in late night and I'm really good on
Speaker 2: late night, so I couldn't figure out why. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it was and I don't even know. I think I
Speaker 2: got your show from a cancel it. I don't think
Speaker 2: it was. I think it was like a cancelation or something.
Speaker 2: And then you realize, like this magic between it, you
Speaker 2: realized it, but you were I remember you said to me,
Speaker 2: like why am I just meeting you now? Like, why
Speaker 2: is this the first time? And I think your show
Speaker 2: you were ending your show like maybe a year after
Speaker 2: that's only got to go on once.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know because it shows you a perception of memory.
Speaker 1: Because if something had said to me, who were you know,
Speaker 1: you know, give me a list of people who were
Speaker 1: regular guests, You've definitely be.
Speaker 2: I would have been had I gotten I know that
Speaker 2: I would have been if I would have gotten on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one time, I had one time with you. My man
Speaker 2: did CELEBN game like fifty times, but our show, your
Speaker 2: show was only once.
Speaker 3: Do you still watch the game shows? Do you still
Speaker 3: do that?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I've been You've going a little more seriously growing up.
Speaker 2: My mood has been a little dour the less a
Speaker 2: few years. Yeah, it's like I think I think I'm
Speaker 2: an adult now and I think I'm fully grasping how
Speaker 2: serious all this stuff is. I hope that I haven't
Speaker 2: lost my joy.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's good still, and you still got the show
Speaker 1: businesslip I die.
Speaker 2: I do, So I haven't lost my joy. But I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm supposed to sound the alarm, and I've
Speaker 2: been sounding the alarm for the last.
Speaker 3: Eight I think also you are.
Speaker 1: It's very this doesn't this is not you different when
Speaker 1: I first met you.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't feel like you've dropped anything.
Speaker 1: I think that you're as the as the Pecoq watchers
Speaker 1: say you're you're approaching your final form, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, you know absolutely, And I think that I
Speaker 1: think that that that's all right. I mean people used
Speaker 1: to talk about it that people say so much stick
Speaker 1: to comedy, and you go, well, now, really.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't do politics in my stand up. But that's
Speaker 1: a stylistic choice, right.
Speaker 2: You know, you're very politically aware like you always have been.
Speaker 1: That I know what's going on, but I have my
Speaker 1: position on it is slightly different, and it is actually,
Speaker 1: if we're being honest, I think it's to do with
Speaker 1: a sense of being a person of faith or a
Speaker 1: person of doubt, or a person of trying to find
Speaker 1: out what I meant to be doing right?
Speaker 3: What what am I here for? What about? What's my purpose?
Speaker 3: What's my job? What have I got to do? Right?
Speaker 1: And I feel like when I was younger, I thought
Speaker 1: it was for something very noble, and uh, maybe they
Speaker 1: would carve statues. But now I'm beginning to think your
Speaker 1: job is to give people a break.
Speaker 3: That's your job.
Speaker 2: Craig also noble, Yeah, but in.
Speaker 3: A slightly different way.
Speaker 1: So my job for the like, if I'm doing ninety
Speaker 1: minutes on stage the stand up, my job is for
Speaker 1: ninety minutes, you laugh and you forget all about it,
Speaker 1: and then when you leave all of that stuff your
Speaker 1: mouth about, it's right.
Speaker 2: You pick it up the it's right there, absolutely, And.
Speaker 1: I think that there's there's there's a certain growth of
Speaker 1: that sort of thought. It's not that it's bad, but
Speaker 1: I wonder because I think, see, politics is always I've
Speaker 1: always thought this is not the case with you, yes,
Speaker 1: but politics have thought. This is where people go sometimes
Speaker 1: when they want to appear smarter than they are, because
Speaker 1: if you pick a side, then you immediately have a
Speaker 1: bunch of people who are we can agree with you, right,
Speaker 1: And so we're like, yeah, he's talking sense, is he though?
Speaker 1: Really the guy with the who farted? Is he talking?
Speaker 1: I don't know if he is. Maybe you just agree
Speaker 1: with him. But there is a movement and this convoluted
Speaker 1: room I'm taking you on it is because I look
Speaker 1: at my my younger brothers and sisters, my my children's generation,
Speaker 1: and people younger than me, and I look at their
Speaker 1: earnest beliefs, and some of them I don't understand. The
Speaker 1: manners are moving very quickly, and that's appropriate. I'm older,
Speaker 1: they're younger.
Speaker 3: That happens. Oh do you do?
Speaker 2: You say?
Speaker 3: Sixty one?
Speaker 2: Your baby, sweet, sweet little baby.
Speaker 1: The only place have a baby is maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of retirement communities in Florida and some Buddhist temples of Nepal.
Speaker 3: I might be the kid other than that.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is I look at the the
Speaker 1: changing manners of people in our business like you can't
Speaker 1: say the ones you got. And some of it is admirable,
Speaker 1: some of it's correct. Somebody is that correction and some
Speaker 1: of us think are we losing naughtiness?
Speaker 3: We are? And this is that necessary?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 3: Is that is that? Okay?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's I don't think it's necessary to
Speaker 2: lose naughtiess I think naughtiness. I think losing naughtiness is
Speaker 2: as detrimental as losing shame, okay, And we lost shame
Speaker 2: around the same time we lost naughtiness. And there's one
Speaker 2: thing to be naughty with a twinkle in your eye
Speaker 2: and the understanding that you know you're tip toeing right
Speaker 2: up to the edge, but you're not tiptoeing up there
Speaker 2: to harm anybody. So it's all silliness and it's fun.
Speaker 2: And you even if you're a really good person or
Speaker 2: really goody goodie, you know what I'm talking.
Speaker 3: About, it's that, right, it's.
Speaker 2: That little twinkle. And I think people have course corrected
Speaker 2: to the point where they believe that if you're naughty,
Speaker 2: you're dark, and I don't. I mean, there's probably some
Speaker 2: that are, but I don't think those that were choosing
Speaker 2: that for their comedy we're doing it for that reason.
Speaker 2: Going back to the shame thing, I feel like in
Speaker 2: this idea of telling people you shouldn't feel bad about anything,
Speaker 2: we've thrown the baby out with the bathroom. There are
Speaker 2: some things you really should feel bad about. If you
Speaker 2: are stealing from people or stabbing people in the back,
Speaker 2: or you're you know, sleeping around with somebody else's wife
Speaker 2: or husband, you should feel.
Speaker 3: Bad about that. It's shameful.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so this idea when I need to be free,
Speaker 2: no no, no, not. Your freedom should not impend on
Speaker 2: cover somebody else's ability to be free. Your search for
Speaker 2: love should not take love from someone else. There's things
Speaker 2: that do what you need to do for you, but
Speaker 2: you should do no harm in doing what you need
Speaker 2: to do for yourself. I believe it is, but it's
Speaker 2: also it's also I think it's every faiths. It should
Speaker 2: be a part of every faith. You should walk out
Speaker 2: your door going. I don't want to hurt nobody today.
Speaker 2: I want to get what I want. I want to
Speaker 2: I want to build a life that I think would
Speaker 2: be amazing. But I for me, I can't sleep at
Speaker 2: night if to get what I need I have to
Speaker 2: step on someone's neck. I don't believe that that's the
Speaker 2: way I have to get it. If I have to
Speaker 2: step on someone's neck to get it, I don't want it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't want it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta get past that.
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: I feel though that I'm refreshed to hear I find
Speaker 1: it refreshing. I'm not refreshed. I fight it refreshing. I'm
Speaker 1: slightly refreshed here. I'm slightly refreshed, freshed. I find it
Speaker 1: refreshing that you say that we need a little more shame.
Speaker 1: We do because I agree, I think that you know,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself. Well you should be
Speaker 1: ashamed of yourself for that, right, But but.
Speaker 2: But you did absolutely that was bad.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think that what I'm fascinated by when
Speaker 1: I was talking to you about the early Christians, pre
Speaker 1: pre Christian, pre Roman Christianity, that there was a theologian,
Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Evagrius, from a town
Speaker 1: called Pontus, which I think was in northern Turkey. It's
Speaker 1: not really important where it was for the extent the story,
Speaker 1: and he came up with the idea of the eight thoughts,
Speaker 1: eight thoughts which take the forms of demons which separate
Speaker 1: you from God.
Speaker 2: What are they?
Speaker 3: They are? You recognize them?
Speaker 1: Envy, sloth, lost, all that average, all that stuff. And
Speaker 1: they became, of course later on the seven Deadly signs
Speaker 1: in the in the church, and they eight went to
Speaker 1: seven because they put sadness, which was one of the
Speaker 1: eight thoughts, was folded into sloth.
Speaker 2: Well, if you said you are just laying around.
Speaker 1: But also I think there's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: hint about self pity in there as well.
Speaker 3: There's self pity.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, when I let myself down,
Speaker 1: it's always self pity.
Speaker 3: Right, it's not always self pity.
Speaker 4: But recently, like recently, sometimes I just so hungry, I
Speaker 4: gotta cry. But but the idea of the demons and
Speaker 4: the thoughts, the early Christians when they were thinking about that,
Speaker 4: they didn't think of these things in moral terms. They
Speaker 4: think about, these are things that will separate you from God,
Speaker 4: from God, from the universe. And it was only in
Speaker 4: later in the medieval Church that it became a moral
Speaker 4: kind of you are naughty and bad if you have
Speaker 4: these things.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, this is just something that's separating you
Speaker 1: from something that's pretty great. Yeah, you know, and actually
Speaker 1: the reason why you're here.
Speaker 2: But you know what, the deepest thing about Christianity for
Speaker 2: me in the way and people that I feel are
Speaker 2: doing it wrong. It's funny I said that as I'm
Speaker 2: about to say what I'm about to say, Eve, We're
Speaker 2: not supposed to judge people, you know, Christ made it
Speaker 2: very clear. God made it clear that we're ill equipped
Speaker 2: to decide who's getting it right and who's getting it wrong.
Speaker 2: And one of my favorite scriptures is take the plank
Speaker 2: of wood out of your eye before you fiddle with
Speaker 2: someone else's splintery plank of wood is huge, a splinter
Speaker 2: is tiny. So in that scripture, the Lord is saying,
Speaker 2: whatever is on your plate is huger and more imminent
Speaker 2: and needs to be dealt with right now, more than
Speaker 2: what your neighbor is doing down the street. And if
Speaker 2: you need something to put your time your mind on
Speaker 2: and spend time doing work on you.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's talk a little bit of it
Speaker 1: working on So let because you are self professed the
Speaker 1: person of faith, what does that look like for you?
Speaker 1: Tell me if I'm getting too personal, what does it
Speaker 1: look like for you when not faith is tested? Can
Speaker 1: you give me an example when you say I don't
Speaker 1: see how this person being sick or this this thing
Speaker 1: happened in my life, or this disappointed for me, how
Speaker 1: can that?
Speaker 2: Well, it always hits me when someone wonderful passes away
Speaker 2: and someone that really has no desire to help anyone
Speaker 2: just thrives and they're around the same age, you know.
Speaker 2: Or I'll see people and I'm not ambitious in the
Speaker 2: industry at all, So I don't mean this like I'm
Speaker 2: not harmed up.
Speaker 3: What more you need?
Speaker 1: And you have our Senial Holes Hall named after you
Speaker 1: and know our Cenial Hall.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, though, is I if I see someone
Speaker 2: that I know is not kind and has not ever,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, tried to think of other people rise,
Speaker 2: keep have like a meteorc rise. In this industry, I'm
Speaker 2: always like, Oh, their platform is going to get so
Speaker 2: big and they have nothing. They're not using it to
Speaker 2: help anybody. It's just look at my lip gloss, look
Speaker 2: at my dress. It's it's so part of me feels
Speaker 2: like that. It's like that doesn't feel fair to me.
Speaker 2: It feels like the people that should have the platform,
Speaker 2: like you said, the people should that should have it
Speaker 2: are people that don't want it. The people that should
Speaker 2: be famous are the people that don't want to be famous,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, the people that don't desire
Speaker 2: to be famous.
Speaker 1: I think fame is the nature of famous very different
Speaker 1: than it was even ten years ago.
Speaker 2: Do you think?
Speaker 3: Yes? I do.
Speaker 1: I think that certainly, maybe not ten years, but certainly
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, which is I'm afraid a
Speaker 1: lot further ago than ten years, being famous was something
Speaker 1: that I wanted because I felt it would remove for
Speaker 1: me the difficulties of my life. It would make me
Speaker 1: feel special, and it would it would, you know.
Speaker 3: The honest truth is I thought I wouldn't have to
Speaker 3: go to the dentist. When I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I thought if I'm famous now, what I didn't know
Speaker 1: is I'd end up in Hollywood, which you know, you, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're going to the dentist nearly every day, absolutely, especially
Speaker 1: if you arrived from Scotland.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Okay, first thing it will be done. But we're
Speaker 3: going to do about a couple of years in the dentist.
Speaker 3: But I thought it would, it would separate.
Speaker 1: Me and make me special. And I think it does,
Speaker 1: or it used to, and I don't think it does.
Speaker 2: What do you think it does now?
Speaker 1: I think it exposes you, and I think it makes
Speaker 1: you vulnerable to your mistakes. And what I'm mean by
Speaker 1: that is when I was a kid, when I was
Speaker 1: in my twenties, I drank too.
Speaker 3: I drank a lot.
Speaker 1: I got myself in a lot of trouble with alcohol,
Speaker 1: and I you know, I got into fights and I
Speaker 1: behaved like an idiot and I fell down, and I
Speaker 1: made a film myself and I peed in my pants.
Speaker 1: There's no footage of that right, you know, well maybe
Speaker 1: after this because maybe.
Speaker 2: I just had a mental.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no actual footage of me doing that, right
Speaker 1: and with the kids. Now, like when you talked to
Speaker 1: earlier about the Karens I saw. I saw one recently
Speaker 1: as a drunk woman on a train just yelling at
Speaker 1: these German students.
Speaker 3: Did you see this one?
Speaker 1: No, it's a you know, it's kind of interesting for
Speaker 1: our purpose because it contains racism, but not black white racism.
Speaker 1: It's a drunk women, white women on a train yelling
Speaker 1: at some German students because they're speaking a different you know,
Speaker 1: and she's yelling go back to your own country and
Speaker 1: all of the usual friends and all that stuff. Thought, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's horrible what you're doing. But she's drunk of her
Speaker 1: ass and she should learn a lesson from it.
Speaker 2: But you don't believe in vino veritas.
Speaker 1: No, I don't really. I don't believe in that because
Speaker 1: I've said a lot of shit when I was drinking
Speaker 1: that wasn't true. I don't think in veno veritas is
Speaker 1: true at all. In wine truth, I don't think it's true.
Speaker 3: I think I think.
Speaker 1: For some people it may be true, but for people
Speaker 1: like me, alcoholics. When I start drinking, I'm not home.
Speaker 1: It ain't mean now I have to deal with behavior.
Speaker 1: They call them spirits and the demon drink, and I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, when I start drinking, the drink
Speaker 1: starts drinking and then the lights are on. But I'm
Speaker 1: not home, you know, And you know that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I'm not responsible for the actions that I take. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that, But what I'm saying is it's just
Speaker 1: not what I want for myself. I'm not even I
Speaker 1: wasn't even aware of some of thislf Like I got
Speaker 1: in a fight. I remember particularly talking to a friend
Speaker 1: of mine who had, like clearly, had taken a couple
Speaker 1: of severe punches to the face, and that we were
Speaker 1: talking about it and he was pretty mad at me
Speaker 1: because it was me. They had done it right, and
Speaker 1: we were out and it happened, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's terrible. So I don't believe in wine truth. I
Speaker 1: think in veno madness from you the Latin for madness.
Speaker 2: Well, you know you open my eyes to that because
Speaker 2: I have always believed that. But I also believe you.
Speaker 2: And so if you're saying that that's not true all
Speaker 2: the time, then I'm now going to think about it
Speaker 2: in a different way, because that does make sense. If
Speaker 2: someone is blacking out, and if it is something else
Speaker 2: taking over, then that thing, whatever that thing is, is
Speaker 2: saying whatever it. You know, it's an ind type moment
Speaker 2: at that moment, it might not even be youeriods.
Speaker 1: But now, what I'm also saying is in part of
Speaker 1: the way that I lived my life since I got
Speaker 1: sober when I was twenty nine, was that it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: You're still responsible.
Speaker 3: And I had to go back and clear up.
Speaker 1: All the mess that i'd mad and you know that
Speaker 1: was it doesn't absolve me for you, but it explained
Speaker 1: it to me a little bit because I was thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, when you get in a fight with your
Speaker 1: friend that you adore, you know, and you guys end
Speaker 1: up in a fight because you're drunk, that why would
Speaker 1: I want.
Speaker 2: To be keep doing that? I keep doing that?
Speaker 3: What is it in me that that happened? And what
Speaker 3: it was in me was alcohol.
Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, I became quite pious
Speaker 1: when I got sober for a while, and you know,
Speaker 1: I said that. So I was talking to a very
Speaker 1: good friend of mine's still a good friend of mine,
Speaker 1: who would also go sober some years before me. And
Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, you know, I think
Speaker 1: alcoholism is a low level search for God. And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, he said, but he said,
Speaker 1: in your case, i'd stick with a low level.
Speaker 2: But I like him, did you ever run into trouble
Speaker 2: with anything like that?
Speaker 1: Did you ever find yourself on a set of behaviors
Speaker 1: when you thought, what's going on with me?
Speaker 3: Why am I doing this?
Speaker 2: You know, probably food for me because I ate myself
Speaker 2: in the diabetes.
Speaker 3: So that's a legitimate demon.
Speaker 2: It's a good one. Yeah, I think it's a horrible one,
Speaker 2: not so good one, but yeah. So I think that
Speaker 2: I never dabbled in alcohol and drugs because my grandmother
Speaker 2: was an alcoholic and she died of that, and so
Speaker 2: I often heard that it was genetic, and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I got a predisposition so much so that when I
Speaker 2: was in seventh grade, my neighbor, I remember, they used
Speaker 2: to put the free cigarette things in the in the
Speaker 2: magazine you can take the rip it out of over.
Speaker 2: So she had gone and got a free pack of
Speaker 2: cigarette and she was like, we gonna smoke after school.
Speaker 2: So I went over and she had gotten a pack
Speaker 2: of Menthols. And when I tell you, I took one
Speaker 2: drag on that minty goodness of that, and I said
Speaker 2: to myself, never again. Because I'm also the person that
Speaker 2: believes that if it can happen to anyone, it will
Speaker 2: happen me. So I've seen the commercial of the lady
Speaker 2: with the little track. I saw that and I was like,
Speaker 2: that happened because of smoking. So if I go down
Speaker 2: this road, that will be me. And so I just
Speaker 2: never smoked. I never.
Speaker 3: I think that that's that's good.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to steer you back to the food
Speaker 1: because coming back because that because that's the one that
Speaker 1: bit you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I understand that I have.
Speaker 1: I behave sometimes run food, this is true, but me
Speaker 1: I hate behave sometimes earn food.
Speaker 3: I think, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: Why are you like I'll tell you today, I just
Speaker 1: ho tolon because I'm in a hotel and there.
Speaker 2: And it's there, and it's there.
Speaker 3: I never buy a tol.
Speaker 2: No, but it's there, it's right there in the room.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But there's also there's bottles of hooch in the
Speaker 1: mini bar. I'm not tempted to go.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that the toblone has has the
Speaker 2: stigma in the history.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have the power. I've got a little bit
Speaker 3: of shame of it was tequila.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that how did you or have
Speaker 1: you found a way to be at peace with that or.
Speaker 2: I mean that's the dangerous one too. I think because
Speaker 2: you can't stop eating. You can stop drinking, you can
Speaker 2: stop doing cocher, whatever your thing is, but you can't
Speaker 2: stop eating.
Speaker 3: You have to.
Speaker 2: It's a it's an addiction that you have that you
Speaker 2: have to always continue to do or you die. So
Speaker 2: I think for me, I had to. I went got
Speaker 2: into therapy because the question is why are you doing
Speaker 2: whatever the addictive behavior is, why if you're sex, addic, alcohol, whatever,
Speaker 2: Why what is going on in your life or inside
Speaker 2: of you that you are.
Speaker 3: Used to behaving in a way that's apparent exactly.
Speaker 2: And so I got into therapy and just realized that
Speaker 2: I was like I had low level sadness, Like I
Speaker 2: was just sad and bored or whatever, and you yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, I can fill this space with
Speaker 2: something instead of picking up a book, calling a friend,
Speaker 2: taking a walk. It was a donuts, you know. And
Speaker 2: so what scared me straight was my diagnosis. When I
Speaker 2: got diagnosed with diabetes, and I just I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be sickly, you know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not an athlete. I'm not like in the gym,
Speaker 2: and I'm not that kind of person. But at baseline,
Speaker 2: I don't want to have chronic diseases as I get older. Right,
Speaker 2: But I don't think that we always think about it
Speaker 2: like that, like we think that we're going to be
Speaker 2: the lucky one and we're going to be the one
Speaker 2: that beats whatever the thing is. Again, my mindset is
Speaker 2: it'll be the thing that takes me out. So when
Speaker 2: I got diabetes, I'm like, well they cutting off my legs?
Speaker 2: Did you take them my legs?
Speaker 3: Did you think when COVID committed you think I'm going
Speaker 3: to die?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I'm like, it's absolute gonna get me.
Speaker 3: I'm going to die this.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was totally.
Speaker 3: You obviously got it right, I got it once. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I got it. I have had a twice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a bit of a germophobe. Anyway. So I
Speaker 2: already was wearing masks on planes because I had just
Speaker 2: booked a kids show and was flying back and forth
Speaker 2: from New York doing this kids show, and I knew
Speaker 2: kids were Petri dishes. So I was like, I need
Speaker 2: to wear a mask to protect myself from these babies
Speaker 2: who could have lord knows what. And that was in
Speaker 2: October of twenty nineteen. So I came back to LA
Speaker 2: from New York and the world blew up. But I
Speaker 2: already had masks, so I was already in that mindset
Speaker 2: of you have to protect yourself. But yeah I did.
Speaker 2: I did all I did, the vaccines and social distancing.
Speaker 2: I'm still sprints and everything. Like I'm still in it.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a bit like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I washed my hands when I get home,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean like they haven't been anywhere.
Speaker 2: Things we probably should have been doing anyway, though, Like
Speaker 2: when you think about, what I think about now is
Speaker 2: how many times I walk through sneezes And you know
Speaker 2: you don't you don't want to, but if you're on
Speaker 2: a plane and a person next to you sneezes, I
Speaker 2: didn't used to cover myself or I would just be like, okay,
Speaker 2: the person sneeze. But now I'm like get droplets, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I like literally thinking about what I.
Speaker 1: Get like that too. I get when I hear someone coughing.
Speaker 1: But it's funny enough. It's always in an airport plane.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh god, damn, I can just stay home.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It just makes me take my mask and like pinch
Speaker 2: the nose a little tighter. Yeah, a little more.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I people go even mad at that, I know.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think also going back to how we've
Speaker 2: lost ourselves in the last eight years, in particular, you
Speaker 2: wear the mask. When they said that you wear the
Speaker 2: mask to protect others, I was like, this is the
Speaker 2: perfect reason to say it, like because I'm thinking everybody
Speaker 2: wants to make sure that they don't harm other people.
Speaker 2: So of course you say and that was the reason
Speaker 2: people didn't wear it. They were like, oh, well, if
Speaker 2: I'm fine, I don't have to watch. I don't know them,
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm like, yeah, why don't you You
Speaker 2: don't want the person down the street to be okay?
Speaker 2: Like I don't. It's foreign to me to not want
Speaker 2: other people to be okay.
Speaker 1: How do we inject more decency into society?
Speaker 3: Gosh, I don't know, sat.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, like I kind of feel like,
Speaker 2: and I hate to say this because this is like defeatists,
Speaker 2: but I feel like you either come here with a
Speaker 2: heart for people or you don't. I think it's you
Speaker 2: can because I remember one time I was no, no, no.
Speaker 2: I mean there may be redemption, but I'm saying it's
Speaker 2: like a muscle. I think if you don't come here
Speaker 2: with it, you can exercise it to learn how. But
Speaker 2: I remember I was on set one day and I
Speaker 2: don't even know what I did, but one of my
Speaker 2: cast members said, you're really nice to people, and I
Speaker 2: said m hm, and she said, I don't really know
Speaker 2: how to do that, and I was like, what, I.
Speaker 3: Think I can almost name this, you know, I was like,
Speaker 3: what do you mean?
Speaker 2: You don't know how? Like to me, it just seems
Speaker 2: like air to breathe. You just put other people's needs
Speaker 2: ahead of your own. And then if you if I
Speaker 2: put your needs ahead of you and you put my
Speaker 2: needs ahead of me of you, we're both taking care
Speaker 2: of It's the same way in a love relationship. If
Speaker 2: I love you with all I have and you love
Speaker 2: me with all you have, we're both okay. The problem
Speaker 2: is when I love you with all I have, and
Speaker 2: you also love you with all you have. Then I'm left.
Speaker 2: So if we all would be outward facing and look
Speaker 2: around and go, who can I help today? What can
Speaker 2: I sew? That's good today? Because even coming here I
Speaker 2: get to see my buddy Craig and I get to
Speaker 2: have this conversation. But I didn't come here going how
Speaker 2: can I make myself great? On his podcast? I'm like,
Speaker 2: how can I say? I hope I can say something
Speaker 2: that sparks something in someone's mind and it takes them
Speaker 2: down a path that's better.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You know, when I talk to my children and when
Speaker 1: I talk to myself, because insite me as a self pity,
Speaker 1: I'll be a little boy. So let's not make it
Speaker 1: about your kids, Craig. Let's tell the truth. What I
Speaker 1: do is self pity is a real legitimate demon, I think.
Speaker 1: And what I try and do is find a way
Speaker 1: to be of service, like you're talking about, for another
Speaker 1: human being. I'm lucky because the way I you know,
Speaker 1: as a sober alcoholic, there was an obvious way for
Speaker 1: me to go, which is, you know, find a drunk
Speaker 1: help be a interial. What service does I think it
Speaker 1: doesn't take away your problems, but it's she's thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. It takes your mind off and it gives
Speaker 2: you perspective.
Speaker 3: That's the word I was going to do. It gives
Speaker 3: you a perspective.
Speaker 1: So you know, if I'm talking to someone who suffers
Speaker 1: from the same condition I have, who's just come in
Speaker 1: the door. Like so, for example, when I when you
Speaker 1: arrive into sobriety.
Speaker 3: And the way that the idea, you know that you
Speaker 3: get arrows.
Speaker 1: In your hat and it's like, you know, you're all
Speaker 1: like burnt and stuff like that, and you know, time
Speaker 1: goes by, you get a nice suit, you comb your hair,
Speaker 1: you get a haircut that clears up, and you kind
Speaker 1: of forget a little bit. So if you spend time
Speaker 1: around the people that are still got arrows in their hats,
Speaker 1: that you know, it's a good sense of a good
Speaker 1: reminder of what's available to you if you want.
Speaker 3: To go back the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're coming to the end of this now,
Speaker 1: So no, well, the end of this episode, this is
Speaker 1: a this will we go down? Is this episode will
Speaker 1: be the last one you're dead before you ran.
Speaker 3: Now, I do know one of the senators. Hi, you
Speaker 3: do which one shared?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Now shared. He's a nice man. He's uh, he's a
Speaker 1: career politician. He's been there for a long time. Now,
Speaker 1: who's the other guys? Who's the other center in Ohio?
Speaker 2: The guy that just it's not it's not Vance now Vance.
Speaker 3: Is not anyway. What I'm saying is this, you know
Speaker 3: Sharon Brown.
Speaker 1: I don't know him personally, know well, his name is Brown, Yes,
Speaker 1: and your name is Brian. It is. And I like
Speaker 1: Sharon and he's got a sense of humor and you'd
Speaker 1: get a kick out of I think the two you
Speaker 1: represent the great state of Ohio and in the Senate,
Speaker 1: I think that's waits.
Speaker 2: One have to have to leave LA, have to go
Speaker 2: back to Ohio.
Speaker 1: I think you should have to run. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you have to. You can keep a place here and
Speaker 1: pay California Texas. But but I think you should you
Speaker 1: should think. But I mean, look, the LA always be
Speaker 1: the event Nicole Brown Building.
Speaker 3: Here in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: People are literally going to start looking for this building.
Speaker 2: It does not exist.
Speaker 1: It's in cosmos. Event Brown Building. I adore you. I'm
Speaker 1: always fascinated by our discussions because they always end up
Speaker 1: going somewhere.
Speaker 2: And then I know it's I never even plan what
Speaker 2: I'm going to say when I come to see you where,
Speaker 2: you know, because I think I've done every iteration of
Speaker 2: this that you've done since your job. I don't even plan.
Speaker 2: I just I just go, I'm going to talk to
Speaker 2: my buddy. Yeah, talk to my buddy.
Speaker 3: For We're gonna shoot the Yeah, shoot the poop, the poop.
Speaker 1: I was I was gonna say shoot the and then
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I don't because you're a Baptist.
Speaker 3: I don't like this.
Speaker 2: I said those words.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, but I you know, when you
Speaker 1: somebody says they're a Baptist, I feel like I shouldn't swear.
Speaker 2: Them from Oh that's I mean, you can listen.
Speaker 3: I've got highly developed I.
Speaker 2: Feel like the Lord would strike me down. If I said,
Speaker 2: how dare you cuss? He'd be like even.
Speaker 1: Really really, I think the and the Lord is going
Speaker 1: to be striking people down. He's got a long list
Speaker 1: of people he's got to gains.
Speaker 3: The youth forcussion, absolutely, I love you, I love you
Speaker 2: The format Bop Parker for Putt