WEBVTT - Children of Partition / Brothers Reunited

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<v Speaker 1>A quick note about this week's episode. All three interviews

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<v Speaker 1>featured were conducted in variations of Hindi, Urdu, and Punjabi.

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<v Speaker 1>They have all been translated into English and voiced by actors.

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<v Speaker 1>Warning the following episode contains sensitive material. Living in Texas

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<v Speaker 1>the majority of my life, I've unfortunately become quite accustomed

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<v Speaker 1>to hearing stories about families being torn apart because of

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<v Speaker 1>a border. While the situations of the Indian Pakistan border

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<v Speaker 1>and the US Mexico border vary in many ways, the

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<v Speaker 1>heartbreak of being separated from your children, your parents, or

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<v Speaker 1>other loved ones are synonymous. We've briefly touched upon these

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<v Speaker 1>grave circumstances and previous episodes of this podcast. Today, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to introduce you to a man who was instrumental

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<v Speaker 1>uniting family split up by Partition. One of these reunions

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<v Speaker 1>was between two brothers who were separated during Partition and

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<v Speaker 1>only saw each other again this year. It had been

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<v Speaker 1>seventy four years from I Heart Radio, I'm Nahasie's and

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<v Speaker 1>this is Partition. A podcast will take a closer look

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<v Speaker 1>into this often forgotten part of history. Numerous children who

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<v Speaker 1>survived ninety seven were abandoned, lost taken to religious retreats

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<v Speaker 1>like ashrams, or they woke up in a hospital bed

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<v Speaker 1>with no idea where their families were, whether they were

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<v Speaker 1>alive or not. Authur Uvashi Battalia wrote in great detail

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<v Speaker 1>about the lives of women in the other side of Silence,

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<v Speaker 1>but she also devoted many pages in her book about

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<v Speaker 1>the children of Partition. Sabbatry mcjohnny, a record collector with

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<v Speaker 1>the United Council of Relief and Welfare, described a time

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<v Speaker 1>when a large camp closed down in Lahore. At the

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<v Speaker 1>time a few months after Partition, she was with the

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<v Speaker 1>School of Social Work in Delhi. Shortly after the camp

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<v Speaker 1>closed down, they received information that there was some dozen

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<v Speaker 1>children who had been left behind who seemed to belong

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<v Speaker 1>to no one. What was to be done with them.

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<v Speaker 1>Many children grew up in orphanages or homes for the destitute.

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<v Speaker 1>Others made their way through life on the streets, and

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<v Speaker 1>some had the privilege to be adopted into homes. Brutalia

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<v Speaker 1>mentions workers at the Gandhavan, Nita Ashram and Jilan there

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<v Speaker 1>recount that in a two year old child was brought

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<v Speaker 1>to the ashram, no one knew who she belonged to

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<v Speaker 1>or where she came from. At the time the book

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<v Speaker 1>was published, she was fifty two and still living there,

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<v Speaker 1>a child of history without a history. This sentence is

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<v Speaker 1>one that I keep coming back to. This woman would

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<v Speaker 1>be in her mid seventies now. Is she still alive?

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<v Speaker 1>Did anyone come looking for her? Was she able to

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<v Speaker 1>find any closure or peace? Who knows if she's even

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<v Speaker 1>there anymore. This is a devastating story, but, as we've learned,

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<v Speaker 1>far from unusual. In January, I had a friend sent

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<v Speaker 1>me an article from the Washington Post about two men

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<v Speaker 1>named Sadiq and Sica who met after seventy four years.

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<v Speaker 1>I was captivated in their reunion video. Siica is already

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<v Speaker 1>waiting for his brother, and Sadik is approaching with his family.

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<v Speaker 1>But you can hear someone saying, look there, that's your brother.

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<v Speaker 1>After all of these years, it has finally worked out.

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<v Speaker 1>Go run and hug him. The brothers have a teery embrace,

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<v Speaker 1>and the younger brother, Sika, is comforting Sadiq. He tells him,

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<v Speaker 1>we are alive, so we can be together again. Sadik

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<v Speaker 1>Givesica a floral garland, a welcoming gesture in South Asian culture.

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<v Speaker 1>The video of the his brothers. Reuniting gave me the

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<v Speaker 1>full range of emotions happiness, anger, sadness, longing, annoyance, you

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<v Speaker 1>name it. It was such a beautiful and touching moment.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you think about the many arduous steps it

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<v Speaker 1>took for these siblings to meet, it's hard to ignore

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<v Speaker 1>the continuous policing of our borders. Nasir Dillo is someone

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<v Speaker 1>who's desperately trying to change the status quo Nasir Lis

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<v Speaker 1>and Fezzil bad and when he's not tending to his

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<v Speaker 1>real estate business, he helps partition survivors find people they

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<v Speaker 1>once knew and have now lost. What started out as

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<v Speaker 1>a Facebook page created in transformed into a major online

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<v Speaker 1>community with over six thousand subscribers and almost one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>million views. Nasir is a prime mover behind the Pakistani

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube channel Punjabi Lahare. The channel hosts an array of

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<v Speaker 1>content from reunions and oral histories to the impacts of

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<v Speaker 1>the recent floods. On this channel, Nasir post interview the

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<v Speaker 1>people affected by partition. Although it started as a way

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<v Speaker 1>to simply document these stories, it has evolved into a

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<v Speaker 1>way for long lost family members separated in to reconnect

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<v Speaker 1>with one another. The channel might post an interview and

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<v Speaker 1>viewers who might know the family members comment and try

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<v Speaker 1>to facilitate a connections. You have channel Cube. When I art,

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<v Speaker 1>people asked us why we created this channel and what

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<v Speaker 1>the purpose was. I used to talk to my grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>about his village in India. I asked how the village was,

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<v Speaker 1>how are the people, how are your friends? My elders

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<v Speaker 1>used to say people were very nice in their village.

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<v Speaker 1>Wanting to hear stories and experiences from others, connected with

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<v Speaker 1>people from India through social media from about the Hindu

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<v Speaker 1>and Sikh communities. He has a Sikh friend named Booping.

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<v Speaker 1>They're saying Lovely living in nak Nanasia, a holy site

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<v Speaker 1>for the Sikhs which is now located in Pakistan. When

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<v Speaker 1>Lovely came onto the project, they got more exposure because

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<v Speaker 1>the door opened up to meet a lot more people

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<v Speaker 1>since many pilgrims traveled to nick Nanasya from India. He

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<v Speaker 1>will get in touch with the people visiting officers from

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<v Speaker 1>the real estate. There was an elderly person by my

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<v Speaker 1>real estate office in fast Labad. He recognized Lovely was

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<v Speaker 1>a seek and struck up a conversation about his time

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<v Speaker 1>in India. Lovely did an interview with the elder and

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<v Speaker 1>it went viral on YouTube and people really responded positively

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<v Speaker 1>to it. After the success of the first partition story,

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<v Speaker 1>we started contacting people by phone living in the area

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<v Speaker 1>of Punjab in Pakistan regarding their history with partition. What

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<v Speaker 1>did they see with their own eyes? They quickly started

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<v Speaker 1>recording more and have been recording for the last seven years.

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<v Speaker 1>Nasir says, with the Facebook and YouTube pages combined, they

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<v Speaker 1>probably have around stories ms name. When people from the

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<v Speaker 1>Punjab side of India used to come to Pakistan, they

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<v Speaker 1>used to recall that they lost a sister, a brother

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<v Speaker 1>or a friend. I never heard any complaints or animosity

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<v Speaker 1>among the different religions of people living in the area.

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<v Speaker 1>They lived in love and as many conversations with his grandfather,

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<v Speaker 1>Nasa remembered him saying how much he wanted to visit

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<v Speaker 1>his old village again in India, but he never got

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<v Speaker 1>the chance. His grandfather passed away a few years ago

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<v Speaker 1>and he couldn't go because he couldn't obtain a visa.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel guilty that I never got to take him back.

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<v Speaker 1>Punjabi La Hare has gained an immense following and because

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<v Speaker 1>of that, it's become a little easier for people to

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<v Speaker 1>find each other through the videos being posted. Coffee Logo.

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<v Speaker 1>It used to take a long time to find people

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<v Speaker 1>because whatever someone used to contact us about a missing

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<v Speaker 1>reality or a kidnapping. We used to do everything NASA

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<v Speaker 1>and Lovely had to record, upload an attempt to locate

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<v Speaker 1>people themselves. Before that, we didn't have a community to

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<v Speaker 1>assist with finding people. Now, as soon as we upload

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<v Speaker 1>a new video, we get a through because we have

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<v Speaker 1>quite a few subscribers and people contact us or leave

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<v Speaker 1>notes in the comments. No Sir said it usually takes

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<v Speaker 1>around eight to ten days for someone to have an

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<v Speaker 1>idea to help solve where I loved one. Maybe around

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred to two hundred and fifty people have met

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<v Speaker 1>not only their blood relatives, but old friends and neighbors

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<v Speaker 1>through the channel. People that leave comments on the videos

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<v Speaker 1>and form groups. In Punjab they talk amongst themselves sanji

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<v Speaker 1>south meaning people come together to join in conversations. We

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<v Speaker 1>hosted it online and people would come on from their homes.

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<v Speaker 1>Because of this, people are starting to get in touch.

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<v Speaker 1>The story of Sadik and Sica reuniting reach an abundance

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<v Speaker 1>of people across the globe and with it garnered a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of media attention. Now with an even bigger audience,

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<v Speaker 1>Nasa says he has more than one hundred stories to

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<v Speaker 1>work on, but's in the problems I think um one stories.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem is we can do the stories, but the

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<v Speaker 1>issues getting visas for people to visit and if you

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<v Speaker 1>can get assistance from the India and Pakistan government to

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<v Speaker 1>verify their stories. I don't understand why there should be

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<v Speaker 1>any issue with the success of reuniting survivors, there also

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<v Speaker 1>comes crashing waves of disappointment. Much like the woman who

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<v Speaker 1>has lived essentially her entire life in the astra Um,

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<v Speaker 1>not everyone has a happy ending. The serious suspects that

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<v Speaker 1>some people have been denied visas because their story was

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<v Speaker 1>not as high profile as Deak and sick Us. Absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>the stories, John, would you look after listening to stories,

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<v Speaker 1>it feels like it is my story, all of these

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<v Speaker 1>partitions stories. When people are talking about partition, it is

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<v Speaker 1>really tough for them. It feels like it is my bust.

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<v Speaker 1>If you can't help in some way, I feel sad.

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<v Speaker 1>He mentions one woman in particular, names Aldana Begum, a

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<v Speaker 1>famous poet. She visited Pakistan seven times to look for

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<v Speaker 1>her relatives. She died recently, never having found her family members.

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<v Speaker 1>Only a few days after her death, the Bunjabi la

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<v Speaker 1>Our team was able to locate her family. Boni the

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<v Speaker 1>people who sacrifice themselves, meaning the people who died, got

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<v Speaker 1>hurt and suffered hard for India and Pakistan and left

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<v Speaker 1>their homes. The governments won't allow them to meet with

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<v Speaker 1>their families. We are behind compared to other countries. There

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<v Speaker 1>is so much hate. We need to get out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to stay in the past if we

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<v Speaker 1>continue like this. Doesn't matter about the borders. It should

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<v Speaker 1>be open so people can meet each other. You can

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<v Speaker 1>travel to Japan, America, Canada and it's not as difficult

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<v Speaker 1>as obtaining a visa to India or Pakistan. When will

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<v Speaker 1>they get their senses after the break? We'll hear from

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<v Speaker 1>Saddi and Sica eight months ago where they're Sadiq and

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<v Speaker 1>Sica reunited at the Karthurpork Corridor. It was a day

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<v Speaker 1>filled with laughter, tears, and most importantly, it was a celebration. However,

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<v Speaker 1>what proceeded this day was over seven decades of separation

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<v Speaker 1>and unknown answers to a flurry of questions. In Poul, India,

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<v Speaker 1>Sadique was a young boy around ten years old and

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<v Speaker 1>Sica hadn't even turned one yet. Their father was killed

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<v Speaker 1>in the chaos and their mother took her own life

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<v Speaker 1>not long after a partition. They had a sister, but

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<v Speaker 1>she passed away from illness and a refugee camp, so

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<v Speaker 1>he ended up walking in a caravan to Pakistan. I

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<v Speaker 1>arrived in fest Labat and settled in Jenna colony in Pakistan.

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<v Speaker 1>The government provided me with some rations. From there, I

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<v Speaker 1>moved to a small village just to fifty five. We

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<v Speaker 1>got two acres of land from the government to farm. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>Sica was under the care of a poverty stricken uncle

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<v Speaker 1>in their village and was then given away. He was

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<v Speaker 1>taken in by the Saints, a family that raised him

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<v Speaker 1>as if he was one of their own. Since ICIca

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<v Speaker 1>was so young, A lot of what he knows about

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<v Speaker 1>his life comes from the villagers of pool Wa. He's

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<v Speaker 1>had to piece together the earlier parts of his life

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<v Speaker 1>based on what others told him. Dr Jugs Are saying

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<v Speaker 1>a farmer and friend of Sikas from the village was

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<v Speaker 1>quoted saying he was the one who was left behind. Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>don't vide the amaze. You didn't know. Well, my life

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<v Speaker 1>after partition was spent in poverty. I spent every day

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<v Speaker 1>doing labor. It was hard work tending to all the animals,

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<v Speaker 1>but I didn't mind so much because I had people

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<v Speaker 1>who protected me. They both started looking for each other

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<v Speaker 1>at different points in their life. For Zadig, the older brother,

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<v Speaker 1>it was relatively quickly after making the track to Pakistan.

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<v Speaker 1>You do men, Yeah, I started looking for Chica two

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<v Speaker 1>months after I had lived in Pakistan. I tried very hard,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was impossible, but little to no resources. Sika

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<v Speaker 1>began his search for his brother when he was eighteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh Shari, I used to ask Muslim families going to

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistan to look for Sadik. I'd helped put some ads

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<v Speaker 1>in newspapers and writing letters, but nothing was working. Both

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<v Speaker 1>brothers went on with their lives, but even as years passed,

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<v Speaker 1>they never stopped attempting to find each other. And then

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<v Speaker 1>fate intervened. In May, Dr Singh was visiting his daughter

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<v Speaker 1>in Canada when he was showing a video from a

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube channel. It was a video of Sadiq reciting all

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<v Speaker 1>the details he knew about his brother and begging for

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<v Speaker 1>anyone with any news to reach out. The circumstances sounded

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<v Speaker 1>oddly familiar to doctor Singh and he had a hunch

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<v Speaker 1>that maybe the person this man was looking for was Sica.

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<v Speaker 1>Dr Singh called Nasir, who had conducted the interview, to

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<v Speaker 1>get some more details. The very next day, Nasir and

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<v Speaker 1>Sadiq found a man who lives with Sica, and all

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<v Speaker 1>four of them began having conversations. In a matter of days, Friends,

0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>villagers and family members began to collect all the necessary

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.400
<v Speaker 1>paperwork to apply for visas so Sadiq and Sica could

0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 1>meet at long last. However, the Indian and Pakistani government's restrictions,

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.600
<v Speaker 1>in addition to the coronavirus through a wrench in their plans,

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.040
<v Speaker 1>and their reunion was put on hold indefinitely until they

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:59.200
<v Speaker 1>could physically meet, Video calls would have to suffice. There

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 1>was one way around fund it, though. The Carthurpark Corridor

0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.120
<v Speaker 1>is a visa free crossing, so once COVID loosened its

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.880
<v Speaker 1>grip on the world, Sadik and Sica started making plans

0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:11.919
<v Speaker 1>to meet at the Sikh temple in the middle of

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:18.080
<v Speaker 1>the crossing. They would meet on January each group began

0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 1>to prepare in order to make the trip, so they

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.640
<v Speaker 1>expand fifty thou Pakistani rupees, which is a little over

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:44.880
<v Speaker 1>two U S. Dollars. I did. I had to sell

0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>my buffalo in order to get some money to travel there.

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 1>I traveled by bus with all of my family, friends

0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.840
<v Speaker 1>and neighbors of Sicca also rented a bus to the corridor,

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 1>and both groups brought with them an array of gifts

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>and food to give to each other. Sara union was

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.199
<v Speaker 1>at the mercy of the temple's operating hours. Sadik and

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Sitka spent three hours together before they had to say

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.160
<v Speaker 1>goodbye again. Nasir said when it was time to leave,

0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Sadik whendn't let his brother go. Since their initial meeting,

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 1>both brothers have received the opportunity to travel to each

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 1>other's homes. On the Punjabula Hair channel, there is one

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.760
<v Speaker 1>video of the brothers talking and laughing in a car

0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>while Naser drives, and in another we see them celebrating

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:42.080
<v Speaker 1>near the border and the horror Pakistan. They love Pakistan. Yeah, yeah,

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 1>you paid in other pace, How is you get? I

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 1>stayed in Pakistan for two months and one of Sadik's

0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.679
<v Speaker 1>grandson is getting married, so I'm hoping to visit again

0:20:55.280 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 1>very soon. Well. I traveled to India in me and

0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 1>stayed for a couple of months. Hearing their story, I

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>hope that India and Pakistan will allow other partition survivors

0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 1>as well as other people to obtain visas so they

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 1>too can visit their roots and memories. Before Sadik and

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.240
<v Speaker 1>I hung up the phone, he asked where in Pakistan

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I was from. My dad was on the line to

0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 1>assist me with these phone calls, and he said we

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 1>were from Carachi. Sadik in return said the next time

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 1>ruined Pakistan, please come meet us. My dad responded with inshalla,

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>which means God willing. This was a phrase that my

0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 1>parents said to me whenever they wanted me to stop

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.840
<v Speaker 1>asking about something when I was younger, and on some

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.399
<v Speaker 1>occasions even now, instead of giving me a yes or

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.880
<v Speaker 1>no answer, this is what they would say. But here

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.840
<v Speaker 1>it was real, it was genuine. I could feel it.

0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.600
<v Speaker 1>I've read, seen and heard countless stories of people wanting

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>to visit their homes they left behind and thought they

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>could visit, or their absolute exasperated grief when they describe

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 1>someone who they have lost contact with and yearned to

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.080
<v Speaker 1>see again with all of these stories, they say in

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 1>shella or something to that effect. When it comes to

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 1>getting their visas approved to visit either India or Pakistan,

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 1>this phrase is really the only sense of hope they

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 1>can cling to. Next time, I'll take a deeper dive

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 1>into how Partition is portrayed in film and television. What

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 1>content is accessible, Are there any good examples? What is

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.280
<v Speaker 1>the audience supposed to take away from these depictions h

0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk to filmmakers and writers Chanty Dcor and Fatima

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 1>Ascar about their own creative work with partition, along with

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:16.240
<v Speaker 1>media they consumed on the topic. So literature really informed me.

0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 1>And then I saw a documentary and it was a

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.560
<v Speaker 1>very journalistic, you know, give me the dates, give me

0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.439
<v Speaker 1>the politicians name of what happened. And of course I

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.920
<v Speaker 1>watched it because I wanted to learn as much about

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the politicians who were involved and so forth. But there

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 1>was really something lacking. It seemed really one dimensional around

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>these kind of almost arbitrary conversations between politicians, but not

0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 1>like what was happening in the hard and soul of

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 1>the people on the street. Until next week, I'm Naazie's

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:56.760
<v Speaker 1>and This Is Partition. Partition was developed as a part

0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 1>of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier, Joel

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Monique and Senia Median. Partition is produced by Anna Hosnier,

0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Tricia muker Gee and Becca Ramos. It is edited by

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Rory Gagan, with the original score composed by Mark Hadley.