1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by FX's Fleischman Is in Trouble, 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: starring Jesse Eisenberg, Claire Danes, Lizzie Kaplan, and Adam Brodie. 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: The strama tells the story of recently divorced Toby Fleischmann, 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: who dies into the world of app bass dating with 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: the kind of success he never had in his youth. 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Then his ex wife disappears, leaving him with their two 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: children and no hint of her return. Effexus Fleischman is 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: in Trouble, streaming November seventeenth only on Hulu. Welcome to 9 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: p M Mood then No Talking Points, No Bullshit podcast 10 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: that takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet, 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: and to the front lines of progress with change makers 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: and innovators that are doing the work to shift our 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: culture and expand and our social impact. I am thrilled 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: to welcome to p M Mood, the co founder of 15 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: the Very Smart Brothers dot com and the author of 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Blacker? Damon, Young Damon. 17 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me. Oh thanks thanks 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: for having me. This is um This is a pleasure 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: in a treat breaking up, breaking up the monotone same 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: thing all day, every breaking up. Yeah, this is great. 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: We're breaking up the groundhogs a day. Um. So you 22 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: have a new book. Um, what doesn't kill you, kill 23 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: you make you see you blacker? Which apparently I'm gonna 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: need the T shirt, I'm gonna need the hat. I'm 25 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: gonna need a jacket. Um, I'm gonna need a mask 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: now for them. That says it. Um, tell me about 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: the title of this book and the theme behind it, 28 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: because for me now reading it and and and seeing it, 29 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: it has different feelings I'm sure from when you wrote 30 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: it until now when it's coming out. So tell me 31 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: about it. Um. So the book is about the an 32 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: anxiety and absurdity of existing more black in America. Um. 33 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: And so it's um the title actually, so there's it's 34 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: a funny story about the title because the original title 35 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: when I sold a proposal, and you know, with written 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: a proposal, told a proposal, and you did all of 37 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: that and actually had worked on it for for for 38 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: about a few months. M post proposal was Nigga the Roses. 39 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: And I want to make sure I'm pronouncing that right 40 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: because my accent maybe gets a little heavy sometimes and 41 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: I have a thick tongue. So people think I'm saying 42 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: Nigga in the roses because I've actually been printed transcripts 43 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: of interviews where people thought, that's it, Nigga in the roses, Like, no, 44 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: that's like a two put pro that's not. But um 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: so yeah, the original title was Nigga the roses, which 46 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: is a term that encapsulates the state of being where 47 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: you're professionally wondering how your race may have impacted your treatment. 48 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: So it could it could be something innoculous like you're 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: at a restaurant and the server you order breakfast food 50 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: and the server asks you if you want hot size 51 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: with your food, and you're thinking, like, who puts off 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: off some pancakes? Like she just this assumption And again 53 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: that's not. That's not like a dangerous thing for that 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: that is the thing. And then it could become dangerous 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: when you know you following a police and you're wondering, okay, 56 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: is this cop follow me in my car because I'm black? 57 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: And in the Bulk, I have a chapter about my 58 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: mom where I, um, you know, I talk about her. 59 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: He died it'll be seven years and in October, and 60 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: how I questioned whether her treatment because she died of 61 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: lung cancer. Would have been different if she were she 62 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: was black. So so again Nigga ne roses. That was 63 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: the concept, that was the title. And then my editor 64 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: at at Harpercollums talking to her people at Barnes Noble 65 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: and her people at Amazon, who were like, you know, 66 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: we love Damon, can't wait for his book, but I 67 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: don't We could carry a book with that title, but 68 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: I don't know if we get promoted the same way, 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: like we can't have Nigga on like seventy two point 70 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: on banner edge on the top of the page of 71 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: the site. Um. And and so I heard that, and 72 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: then you know, I had to think of a new title. 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: And I was actually on the plane the essencest in 74 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, UM, working on some of the working on 75 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: some of the dialog text and what doesn't kill You 76 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: makes you black or dis academy and um in that term. 77 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: Just if you're black in America right now, at this point, 78 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: you should recognize, you should know by now that respectability 79 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: is a fucking road right, and that there's no sort 80 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: of like behavioral deodorant that you can wear that you 81 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: can apply to get people to convince people of your 82 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: humanity or your citizenship, like anyone who needs us. So 83 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: they're convincing, it's proof that they can't be convinced or 84 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: why even try, And so what doesn't to make the 85 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: blacker is basically an acknowledgement of that and also saying, 86 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: you know what, if we want to survive, if we 87 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: want to survive, if we want to exist here, we 88 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: have to continue to embrace blackness instead of trying to simulate, 89 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: trying to, I don't know, flatten ourselves out, you know, 90 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: the then embracing the saunching and blackness is the way 91 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: to go. And that, let me ask you, because embracing 92 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: blackness means so many different things to so many different 93 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: black people, right. You know, there are sites that celebrate 94 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 1: there are all different kinds of sites melanin magic, black girl, magic, 95 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: black boy joy, all of these different types of things 96 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: that are set up to give us positive representation of what, 97 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: you know, what is considered a revolutionary act, which is 98 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: to be proud of being black, right instead of walking 99 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: around with your head bowed and literally stepping off the 100 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: sidewalk to make room figuratively and literally for other people. 101 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: So what does it mean for you when you say 102 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: that to embrace your blackness. Well, you know, I forgot 103 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: who it was with this quote. And I'm paraphrasing here, 104 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: but if there are forty million black Americans, than there 105 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: are forty million ways to be a black American? Right, um? 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: And and and also too, I I I try to 107 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: be very careful to to to articulate the idea that 108 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: the reality that you know, so do you have this 109 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: entire concept that that's pretty trendy now being unapologetically black? 110 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: You just you know, alluded to it. It's now your 111 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: question where you know you got to be unapologetically? This 112 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: is unapologetically that what does that look like? And I 113 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: recognize that for someone like me, I have more freedom 114 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: to say and do certain things than someone who maybe 115 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: worked at the bank does or some other sort of 116 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: corporate or more traditional you know, you know, job of environment. 117 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: And so are they are they less unapologized if they 118 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: can't go on Twitter and cust Donald Trump out like 119 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: I can, you know what I mean? And and and 120 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: that's and that's just not that's it's not true. And 121 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: I think that what I mean by that and what 122 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: anyone you know who who has like any sort of 123 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: understanding of history and just and just in the present 124 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: also and just just what that means, what has meant 125 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: to us. It just means not thinking of your blackness 126 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: as like a detriment or a lack of bithology, and 127 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: considering it to be this is, this is, this is 128 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: a positive, that this is a great thing. Now how 129 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: that great same manifest depends on who you are, depends 130 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: on your life. But you know, we we we're indoctrinated, 131 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, with all of this messaging about you know, 132 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: black being bad, black being disease, black being wrong and 133 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: be not unapologetic. M extracts that, you know, abstracts that 134 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: anti blackness, and and once the astraction happened, then you're 135 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: free to be whoever you want to be. You know, 136 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: that attraction, that extraction is. It's difficult because you know, 137 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: even people, I mean, I still find myself maybe thinking 138 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: or doing things that I think to myself, you know 139 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: that there might have been some late in the air 140 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: blackness and there M I get really, you know, still 141 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: in this day age twenty twenty, even though it's a 142 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: fuckery every year, Um, it drives me insane, like hurts 143 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: my heart when I see headlines about young children still 144 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: being suspended for natural hair. The video that went viral 145 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen of the young black wrest who was 146 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: forced to cut off his locks so that he could 147 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: play in the championship match. Um the prescriptions that uh 148 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: A elementary school put out in a black neighborhood, policing 149 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: how parents were dropping their kids off. No no do rags, 150 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: no head scarves, no this that or the other thing. 151 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: And you know, friends that I've had that have attended 152 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: HBCUs have talked about the respectabild that that's the birthplace 153 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: in some in some aspects their words, not mine of 154 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: respectability politics, and other folks saying, well, then you have 155 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: to understand who created those HBCUs, right, Who who created 156 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: those those spaces. And even though we say that if 157 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: there are forty million black people, there are forty million 158 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: ways to be black, there is this mainstream way of 159 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: being black or what is accepted as black. I can remember, 160 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, I grew up out East on Long Island 161 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: in New York. And you know, as part of when 162 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: I was growing up, very heavy grunge scene, punk scene, skateboarders, 163 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: like that's what I That's what I grew up around 164 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: in the suburbs. I remember going to college and being 165 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: told because of the music that I liked that I 166 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: wasn't black, right. I still get joked on in in 167 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: many ways because Depeche Mode was the first concert I 168 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: ever went to. Um and you know, and so it 169 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: it's like, is it worse that we sometimes within the 170 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: community do it to ourselves, or is it worse that 171 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:46,599 Speaker 1: we are trying to move against the reflection that society 172 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: has for us that white and eurocentric is the best. 173 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about, you know, doing it to ourselves. 174 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: None of us are men to to to the Leviathan 175 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: of anti blackness, um. None of us are me in 176 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: the bad you know, um and and and it sus 177 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: all aspects of like wherever the sunshine in America? Anti 178 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: blackness of too, and and so it takes a lot. 179 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: It takes It takes some effort, It takes some some reading, 180 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: It takes some self examination. It takes them deconstructing to 181 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: be able to locate it, you know, and extract it. 182 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if we I hate to use the cancer 183 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: analogy because you know, I don't want to be insensitive 184 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: to people who have had cancer, but I think of 185 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: it in a similar manner where it's a it's a 186 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: tumor that will continue to grow and men test size, 187 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, unless you are able to do with singing it. So, 188 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: you know, hearing stories about younger black people who might 189 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: have been told they were weren't black enough for or 190 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: this or that. You know, I've heard that before. And 191 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: I understand that too, because because again that that definitely 192 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: definitely has happened, definitely does happen, but it's not I 193 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: think the danger and and and I think the dangerous 194 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: takeaway from that is to blame black people for that, 195 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: um just because again, anti blackness is it's everywhere, and 196 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: even some of the most you know, I don't know 197 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: even in them, even if some of the most unambiguously 198 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: pro black people and I'm saying pro black in quotations 199 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: have anti blackness kind of streams. And so the question, 200 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: I think or or the problem isn't necessarily black people 201 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: who you know, have these um have these like like 202 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: binaries of blackness, these really limited um and calculations of 203 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: what it means to be black. But the problem is 204 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: a greater you know, society, greater country um that has 205 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: forced those definitions on us and has forced that rigidity, 206 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: and it's also created an environment where we have to 207 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: fear for our lives and so and in order to 208 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: respond to that sort of danger, you do or say 209 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: certain things that people believe will protect you, right, And 210 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: so that's why you know, when you're talking about like 211 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: the HBCUs and people you know maybe be intot a 212 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: certain way and where those lessons came from, you do, 213 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, have to understand or knowledge at least that 214 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: many of those architects came of age at a time 215 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: when it was legitimately life thread you just exist just 216 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: a little black yeah, and you know, yeah, those same 217 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: threats exist now, but it's it's it's just not the same. 218 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: This scale is not the same. And also there were 219 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, they were very radical people then people who 220 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: would still be considered radical in twenty first into your context, 221 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: but the definition of radical chefs, I think, so what 222 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: might have been radical in nineteen twenty isn't going to 223 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: be radical and desotment twenty But it doesn't mean that 224 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: they aren't radical. You know, you're a father, and I 225 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: mean your Facebook posts give me life because I think 226 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: they're just so freaking hilarious. Um, what does it mean 227 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: for you, like when you were in the in the 228 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: early early stages of fatherhood, when you knew that you 229 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: were going to become a father, what are some of 230 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: the things as a black man right in America creating 231 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: this black family that came up for you that you 232 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that either you were going to 233 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: pivot away from or lean all the way into. Yeah, 234 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: it's um. So the last chapter mable Um is addressed 235 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: to my daughter sum who it's four years old now, 236 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: but when the book was published three yeah last year, 237 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: so yes, he was three. I'm a band Americum. And 238 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: the chapter is about just and I think you know 239 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: most parents have this where you have a child and 240 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: you wanted her out a way to give them all 241 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: the best parts of you while also kind of kind 242 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: of filtering out the bad part. You know, you want her, 243 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, auto attributes that you believe to be the 244 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: one that you want to brag about, the ones that 245 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: you want to continue on. Those are the ones you 246 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: want her to have. What your children have in the 247 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: bad things, maybe the addictions or the anti blackness or 248 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: whatever that you consider to be a negative part of you. 249 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: You don't want your kids have that. But it's kind 250 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: of impossible to do that. You know your kids are 251 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: going to witness you, they're going to observe you, they're 252 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: going to um model themselves after you, and so you 253 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: just have to do the best job because possible to do. 254 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: They're rare in the right way, and teach her the 255 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: right way. And when you have a black child in America, 256 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: there's also the idea like, okay, so yeah, you know, 257 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: you teach your children that they could be whoever in 258 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: whatever they want to be. But if you also teach 259 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: your black child about America, about this four hundred of 260 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: year old behem, if that is going to do everything 261 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: you can for thank you for filling that. Those two 262 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: lessons might seem to contradict, right, It's like, on one hand, 263 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, Dad, You're you're saying I could do everything 264 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: I want to I could be everything I want to be. 265 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: But you're also saying America is a motherfuck the monster, 266 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: and it's it's gonna have its foot on my neck 267 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: for basically my entire life once once I came out 268 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: of toddlerhood, I'm gonna have its foot on my neck. 269 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: And so how did those in a chapter? I ask 270 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: myself it's like, how did those lessons for reconcile? And 271 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: and and you know, as a parent, what you do 272 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: is you just give your child as much information as 273 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: possible and you tell them that, you know what, Yes, 274 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: America is the way America is. But it's not going 275 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: to stop you. It's not going to prevent you from 276 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: being what you want to do, what you want to 277 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: do it. You know, I just it's I don't have kids, 278 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: but you know, when I see my friends who are black, 279 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: um preparing to give birth or or raising their kids, 280 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: it seems like there is this constant refrain, right, which is, 281 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: how do I protect them but make sure that like 282 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: their back is always straight right, and their chin is 283 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: always up, and their shoulders are always back, and they 284 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: know who they are, but they also know where they 285 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: are right. And I think that for many it is 286 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: just that constant push and pull. You know, one of 287 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: the chapters, I guess, the your Um opening one about 288 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: waiting to be called wanting looking to be called a 289 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: nigger and you're, you know, you're seventeen, and you're and 290 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: you're you know, reflecting on that and I remember the 291 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 1: first time that I was called a nigger, and I 292 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: was sixteen, and I was at school in a you know, 293 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: in my in my ap government in history class, and 294 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: I remember coming home and saying to my mother, I 295 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: don't understand how this happened, Like I thought that racism 296 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: was dead. And my mother looked at me and was 297 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: just like, oh, my god, I have done you the 298 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: greatest disservice. Right. That's why I will I will never 299 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: forget that for as long as I live, that she 300 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: was so appalled at the fact that she had reared 301 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: me and raised me in this wide ass suburb of 302 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: of Long Island. Uh. And I was supposed to then 303 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: just assume that, you know, I wasn't supposed to be 304 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: entitled like everybody else was. I wasn't supposed to have 305 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: the things that they have, um and think of myself 306 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: in the same way and carry myself in the same 307 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: way that they did. That like the world was my oyster. 308 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: And so when I was reading, you know, it's just 309 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: like what was the what was the feeling there? And 310 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: I loved and I love the way that you talked 311 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: about your your your parents and their use of the word. 312 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: And there's always you know, you go back and forth 313 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: between like the Oprah generation and the younger generations and 314 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: the interpretation um of the word and the phrasing and 315 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: hip hop and this that and the other thing. What was? 316 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: What was? Tell? Tell folks, who who are you know? 317 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: Picking up picking up the book about that chapter? Oh 318 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: when um my agent Karya McKinnon um first um brought 319 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: up first approachman um with the idea to invite a memoir, 320 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: m I kind of pushed back a bit because I 321 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: that wasn't my idea. My original idea for this book 322 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: would be a group of essays kind of similar in structure, 323 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: in form, and theme and content to how vsp is. 324 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: Where let's say you have one chapter that's that's like 325 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: a deconstruction of a white privilege, and then you have 326 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: another chapter that's like a really in depth book spas 327 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: or something, you know what I mean, another chapter about 328 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: Kanye or you know, there's a book of essays about 329 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: you know, different topics, some of them silly, some of 330 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: them not as silly, more sober but not really not 331 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: really connected to me, more connected to my five and 332 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 1: ability when connect to me. And she was like, you know, 333 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: I think that would be a great idea, but I 334 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: think an even better one for you is to write 335 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: the story about you, about your life and about you know, 336 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: all the vulnerabilities and anxieties and acts and insecurities and 337 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: all that that come with it. And then you can 338 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: insert those cultural and racial insight and observations into that narrator. 339 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: And so I agree because she's smarter than me and um. 340 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: And so when I when I first sat down to 341 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: write this book, first started thinking about it, that story 342 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: about my parents that's in that first chapter was like 343 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: I have, it's basically like the fullcirm of the book, 344 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: because you know, for people haven't read I start the book, 345 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: first chapter starts with a story where my parents are 346 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: like racial harassed. I like this deli Pittsburg, you know, 347 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: white boy behind a counter caused them niggers. My dad 348 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: fights them, my mom is there, and my grandmother's there. 349 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: They're throwing them like they're breaking glass. They're like there's 350 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: like there's olives everywhere and pepperoni, even ice cream. It's 351 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: like they basically cause a race ride. Okay, they get arrested, 352 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: but then they get let go by a black sergeant 353 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: or whatever who takes a look at them. It's like, 354 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: you know what y'all are racey harassed, so you could 355 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: go home, And I said, And my parents are the 356 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: sort of people who like their story, you know, so barbecue's, 357 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: birthday parties, wedding receptions, cook outs, whatever, They're always telling 358 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: the story about this time, this amazing story. And so 359 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,479 Speaker 1: I'm like eight, nineteen years old here in the story 360 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: all the time. But I had never been called a 361 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: nigger before, but I kind of wanted to just I 362 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: would have a cool story, like my parents said, And 363 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: then it became like this sort of thing where it's like, yo, 364 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: what am I? And again, this is me as like 365 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: a eleven twelve an adolescent, as a young as a 366 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: as a young teenager, questioning whether I was like black enough, 367 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: whether white people considered me black enough to be called anager, 368 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: and then just the absurdity of like of even thinking 369 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: that and having that five and I'm a thinly called 370 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: one from seventeen. I wait for a bus, a city bus, 371 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: to take me somewhere in some white boy speeds by 372 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: the four that's fifty in, screams nigger out of his 373 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: passionate windows, and just keeps driving past. And you know, 374 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: when it happened, like a part of me wanted to 375 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: call like come back, whips lay now this is my moment. 376 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: And then you know, you go about your life. I'll 377 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: go about mine. I don't have a story, but he 378 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: just kept driving and and it just gone on me 379 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: right at that moment. How ridiculous it was too to 380 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: give any sort of of of any sort of weight, 381 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: any sort of prominence, any sort of important you know, 382 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: um of my racial identity um and basically or the 383 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: ridiculous sense of basing my racial identity on how white 384 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: people feel about right right right um and And so 385 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: that's the first chapter of the book. And I wanted 386 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: to make it first because one, it's you know, the 387 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: book is told in a chronological order, so that you know, 388 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: by the end of the booker you know, deals with 389 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: stuff that happens, you know, more in the present. But 390 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: also I want people to know what type of book 391 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: they were getting into, because that's a nigger in that 392 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: chapter probably twenty five tive and and and also get 393 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: the concept of one we called it mm hmmmm in 394 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: the absurdity, in the in the humor in your two 395 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, this is this is what I'm getting. 396 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: This is this is what I got into. Will read 397 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: this book, okay, damon Um. I also I have a 398 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: bone to pick with you because you said you said 399 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: something very violent in this book. You said that Darius 400 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: love Hall was trash, I mean, and I felt I felt, 401 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: I felt abused. I felt like you took what is 402 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: this sacred, sacred black film love Jones and turned it 403 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: into something awful. And I want you, I want you to. 404 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: I want you to explain yourself. I mean, it's it's 405 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: if it's all there in the fact. I mean. So 406 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: the to the movie starts, like, really, I don't you 407 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: just need to watch the movie. Oh, don't tell me 408 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: to watch my favorite movie. I have watched this movie 409 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: time and time again. In the first fifteen minutes. Okay, 410 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: So all right, So the movie starts. He's at what 411 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: the sanctuary, the name of the sanctuary. He meets Nina 412 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: at the bar Nana was it? Nina? Nina? Nina? Okay? 413 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: Play yes, thank you, thank you. Daniel Um meets Nina 414 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: at the bar, um for Twitter or whatever. She goes 415 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: back to her see he goes on stage. He reads 416 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: a poem that's addressed to her. Now, of course you're 417 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: watching that movie. It's like, holy shit, that's the coolest 418 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: thing ever that niggas John Blaze, Oh my god. But 419 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: no one could write a poem that quickly, No one, 420 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: and in the three minutes to talk from him being 421 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: at the bar to be him being offstage with the 422 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: instrumentation and everything that went along with it. So what 423 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: really happened, what likely happened, is that he wrote a poem, 424 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: he had already write a poem for some other woman, 425 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: met her. It's like, you know what, yeah, I'm gonna 426 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: substitute and substitute her out wrong, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, 427 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: that's that's definitely what we do. But you know, okay, 428 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: and then and then and then this is even worse. 429 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: And then he sees he shows that better crib. Yes, 430 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: and randomly did he get did he get her address 431 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: from her? Yeo, he got it from his homegirl who 432 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: happened to be working in a record store that she's 433 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: shopping in correct, which which I'm which I'm pretty certain 434 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: as a crime it is, I'm pretty suposed to that 435 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: also wrote oh yeah, crime go that that basically encasulates 436 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: every romantic comedy from like nineteen eighty five or like 437 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Correct a crime. But also romantic. 438 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: It's a lifetime special waiting to happen. I mean, it 439 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,239 Speaker 1: is essentially what it is. But I mean, you know, 440 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: I had I grew up watching that movie and waiting 441 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: to find my sanctuary and waiting to find that click 442 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: of just slick ass, smart, brilliant, sexy, gorgeous black folk 443 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: just being black and fine. I mean, I love the movie. 444 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: I love the movie. I love The thing I love 445 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: most about the movie is how in love Karen Twitcher 446 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: is with his characters. Like you could tell that he 447 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: he loves these people. He loves the way they talk, 448 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: he loves the way and look, he loves the things 449 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: that they do, and that sort of love that's sort 450 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: of just infatuation with the with the characters. He's creating, 451 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: the characters, he's de picture he's depicting. It's it's visceral, 452 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: and it's one of those things that even you know, 453 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: twenty years after, you know, twenty years later, over twenty 454 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: years later, it's still you know, it's still sticks. It's 455 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: still like a vital part of that story, you know. 456 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: And so even though Darius probably should be in prison, 457 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: the movie itself, the movie itself was great, and yeah, 458 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: and I know it's it's it's it's cliche and it's 459 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: a little sacarana part, but I still watch it and 460 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: I feel now it's it's I gotta tell you, it's 461 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: still one of my favorites. But I could not help 462 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: but cackle out loud as you were basically telling me 463 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: that this this leading man is a stalker and is 464 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: a womanizer and belongs in jail. Um I it was. 465 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: It was peak damon for me. It was peaked Damon 466 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: Young when I can read and laugh all the way 467 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: out loud and be like this nigga is crazy. UM, 468 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: So damon. You know at um at the we're we're 469 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: in living in this extraordinary um extraordinary time, um where 470 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: we're living in the midst of this global pandemic that 471 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: is hitting us, hitting our community harder than it's hitting 472 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: any other community, and it is I think that the 473 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: virus in and of itself is exasperating just what it 474 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: really means to be living while black in America. All 475 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: of the things that we have said, researchers have told 476 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: us about, politicos have talked about, activists have fought about, 477 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: we're seeing play out where in fact, to your point, 478 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: when we opened up this conversation. Being black in America 479 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: is an extreme sport and in many ways you are 480 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: taking your life in your hands every single day depending 481 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: on where you are, what your social socioeconomic class is, 482 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: what your health status is, all of these different things. 483 00:33:52,080 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: How are you grappling with that understanding in this moment? Lee? Probably? 484 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Like I then, we were 485 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: joking beforehand before the call started about you know, you 486 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: ask how I was doing, Yeah, and I said that, 487 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: you know my response now it's like the stereotypical like 488 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: church mom, black church moll respond, black church grandma response. 489 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I'm just you know, just taking it 490 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: one day at a time. It's one foot after the other, 491 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: and you know, every day at wake up every day, 492 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: open my eyes and the Good Lord, because that's how 493 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: I feel now. Yeah, like I you know, I um so, 494 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: I just wrote a piece actually for the Washington Post 495 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: today on Day's Friday, the What's the Day? The tenth 496 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: April tenth about just the absurdity of being told, you know, 497 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: if you're black that you know, if you go outside 498 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: and you're wearing a hoodie or you're wearing like a 499 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: math or anything, else that obscure is your face. You're 500 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: going to be thought up as a threat. You know, 501 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: you might get shot, you might get it cont calling, 502 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: you might get shot. Whatever. And now out they were 503 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: masks on ye and just that that that that I get. 504 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: It's irony. Actually it's it's it's an absurd and brutal 505 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: irony of you know, being just having this one thing 506 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: indocrinated into you. And then with this pandemic along with 507 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: all the other brutalities, along with all the other brutalities 508 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: that we have to experience. Now it's like, okay, now 509 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: you're telling me to wear a mask, and and and 510 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: the thing is and then there has been there's already 511 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: been reports of black people getting harassed by law enforcement 512 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: for wearing masks in public, like that's happening, Like there were, um, 513 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: there were two young black men who were harassed by 514 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: some police and Walmart kind of on the kind of 515 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: on camera because they were massed up and Walmart police 516 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: officer told them to leave the store. And so and 517 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: we also know that no, yeah, we have this national 518 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: mandate you know for social distancing, and implicit in that 519 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: is to kind of cattle on people who are not 520 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: social distancing. But what ends up happening is now you're 521 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: having white people called a police on black people who 522 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: are concerting in public. So you're just finding more and 523 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: creating unique ways for blackness to be criminalized. And so 524 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: along with us being uniquely vulnerable to this illness, we're 525 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: also uniquely criminalized when we're trying to protect ourselves from it. 526 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: I swear every day you can't win for losing um. 527 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: It's just extraordinary, extraordinary, And I you know, I must, 528 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: I must say to you that you're writing in so 529 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: many ways, in so many different times, has gotten me 530 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: through when there are bad headlines and I'm like, let 531 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: me go and see what he's saying, um, and go 532 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: to look at your latest writing, because you have such 533 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: a beautiful way of being able to um even in 534 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: the most even covering the most ghastly race relations, be 535 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: able to sprinkle in humor that brings my shoulders down 536 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: just a little bit, right. And and it's and it's 537 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: with that ease and the eloquent way in which you 538 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: put word to paper, I think is is so needed, 539 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: um and and so incredibly inspiring. The last question that 540 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: I ask folks on PM mood all the time is 541 00:37:53,719 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: about how you get in the mood to change the world. 542 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: How do you get yourself together? How do I get 543 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: myself together to change the world? Oh? Wow, Um, I 544 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: mean I eat. I eat a lot of grits and 545 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: bacon and eggs. I'm a big breakfast mood person. I 546 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 1: had a breakfast. We had a brunch wedding. Um, and 547 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: so I um, that's my fuel. I guess I could 548 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: eat even very healthy um in robots breakfast. That's how 549 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: I get That's how I get in the mood. I 550 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: love it. And then maybe then maybe I'll go listen 551 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: to some um, I don't know, I don't even know what. 552 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: Maybe listen to marmon, listen to What's going on? Mm hmmm. 553 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: That could play on on on repeat, on absolute repeat 554 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: these days. Damon, young author of What Doesn't Kill You 555 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: Makes You Blacker? You must pick it up, Damon, And 556 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining PM mood and for 557 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: the continued brilliance that you gift the world with. It's much. 558 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you Danielle for having me. This is 559 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: great fun. And yes, thank you to funk away from everybody. 560 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: Correct correct, Thanks for listening to this week's PM Mood. 561 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: Just a quick announcement, my other political podcast, Woke af Daily, 562 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: is now on Patreon. You get me five days a week. 563 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: Forget this, folks, just five dollars a month. That is 564 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: five fresh shows a week for just five dollars a month. 565 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: Thanks for staying loyal and helping to support independent media, 566 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: and you can continue listening to PM Mood for free 567 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: every single week. Stay in the PM mood to change 568 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: the world.