1 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone of This is Lee Clasgow when We're Talking Transports. 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Lee Klaskow, Senior Freight transportational Logistics Analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, 4 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg and House Research arm of almost five hundred analysts 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: and strategists around the globe. Before diving in a little 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: public service announcement, your support is instrumental to keep bringing 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and we 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast, 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: you have any ideas for future episodes or just want 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: to talk transports, please hit me up on the Bloomberg terminal, 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn or on Twitter at Logistics League. Now on 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: to our episode and we're delighted to have today. Michael Cainey, 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: chief Commercial Officer at Highway, a Rollie's held since joining 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: the company in twenty twenty two. Michael has twenty years 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: of experience in leadership and advisory roles in corporate development, sales, brokerage, 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: managed services, technology and fleet operations. He also was the 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: founder of Growth and Nexus, a consultancy firm Michael, Thank 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today on talking transports. 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: Thanks Ley, it's good to be with you. 21 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: So Highway we all drive on them, but I guess 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people might not know it is a company. 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 3: Let's talk about what does Highway do. 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, Highway exists to reduce the friction that existed between 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: motor carriers and freight brokers. We do that by providing 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: a really robust identity and access management platform. So we 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: really we do two things. We eliminate fraud between the 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: broker and carrier connection and then we improve the speed 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: at which they can connect and conduct business. Right. 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the reasons why I wanted 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: to have you guys on as I met you guys 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: out at Manifest great conference. 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: If you've ever been, you should go. You know, And 34 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 3: fraud is become such. 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: An issue within transportation. Can you talk a little bit 36 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: about like how did fraud become such a big deal 37 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 1: for the trucking industry. 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was. What's interesting is there was always 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: there was always fraud in the trucking industry. I started, 40 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: I started in this business as a freight broker in 41 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: two thousand and four. And the thing that we dealt 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 2: with the most was the occasional theft and the occasional 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: double brokering, And for the audience is not familiar with that, 44 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: let's just kind of unpack that just just a little bit. 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 2: Double brokering is when a freight broker contracts a motor 46 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: carrier to move a shipment, and that motor carrier then 47 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: then brokers that freight out again, right, And that motor 48 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: carrier may have legitimate freight broker authority where they may 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: be giving it to a cousin or a friend or 50 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: another owner operator, and they may pay that carrier and 51 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: make a little money on the spread. And in that case, 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 2: you're just kind of upset about it as a freighter 53 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: because you overpaid, and there's probably some some liability issues 54 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: because you don't know who you actually contract with, right, 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: and that's there's risk there. The worst kind of double 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: brokering is when someone takes a shiment from you, acts 57 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: like they're a carrier, gives it to somebody else, doesn't 58 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: pay the underlying motor carrier, and just disappears. So they 59 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: collect the money from you, and then the other motor 60 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: carrier shows up saying nobody paid me, and that motor 61 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: carrier still owed that money. That's the worst kind of double. 62 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: Broker And just to back up, so double brokering in 63 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: with itself is not illegal. 64 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: It's not it's not illegal if you have brokerge authority, okay, right. 65 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: But but every every every contract between a freight broker 66 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: and a motor carrier contractually prohibits double brokering, okay, right. 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: And so there's the problem that you have with double 68 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: brokering that the motoring public should understand is that you 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: you lose you lose the ability to vet the ultimate 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: underlying motor carrier. Right. So a freight broker is going 71 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: to sign up for all kinds of egregious indemnification with 72 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: a shipper and agree to do all of these things 73 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: when they select motor carriers. And then if if they 74 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: give it to an entity that doesn't do that, right, 75 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: there they've got they've just got some liability exposure contractionly 76 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: with whatever they've agreed to with that shipper, right and 77 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: then and then the worst kind of double brokering is 78 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: just when when they the broker ends up double paying, right, 79 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: because they have to pay for that shipment twice, all right, 80 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 2: So then there's there's fictitious pickup and and theft, and 81 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: that's always existed, okay, but what happened during the pandemic. 82 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: So fraud needs three things to exist and thrive prospective gain, anonymity, 83 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: and urgency. There's there's always been a very easy prospective 84 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: gain when it comes to I mean, the transaction I 85 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: just explained is pretty simple to pull off. There's a 86 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: very low barrier to entry for both a freight broker 87 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: and a trucking company, so you can kind of get 88 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: an MC number. And there's there's plenty of people that 89 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: talk negatively about the FMCSA I don't I don't need 90 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: to swim in that lane. There's other people that do it, 91 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: but there's a low barrier to entry. It's fairly easy 92 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: to get going. And you can hide behind a public 93 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: load board and a you know, back in the day 94 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: it was a fact summer, not it's an email address 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: and pretend to be anybody you want, and and and 96 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 2: we don't federally, we don't prosecute it. Like no, it's 97 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: not a big deal. You walk into a bank and 98 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: steal two hundre fifty thousand dollars, they're going to come 99 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: after you. You still two und fifty thousand dollars load 100 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: a cargo. They argue about whose problem it is, right, right, 101 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: So so the anonymity is easy. And then the urgency 102 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: has always been there, especially in a freight brokerage environment. 103 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: It's always urgent. It's a last minute, shit minutes. Something 104 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: has to happen. It's a it's a high, it's a 105 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: it's a boiler room type environment. At least it has 106 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: been historically. And the pandemic just we all know, like 107 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: everybody knows it just accentuated that m right, and so 108 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: fraud lives thrives an urgency, right, I mean, just think 109 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: about think about like the elder abuse schemes, right when 110 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: someone calls you and they're from Africa and they need 111 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: you to wire them ten thousand dollars, Like just think 112 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: about like this has to happen now, or the irs 113 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: schemes that make these phone calls, like, oh my god, 114 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 2: it has to happen right now. And if it doesn't, 115 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: like that's literally how freight moves. That's how about twenty 116 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: thirty percent of the freight market moves. Oh my goodness, 117 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: it has to happen right now. And bad actors have exploited. 118 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: That, right, And when I think of theft and trucking, 119 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 1: you know, I think of good fellows and a guy's 120 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: strong arming a truck driver and stealing it. But in 121 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: today's world, that's not really how it happens, is it. 122 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: No, it's it's not. And so again, if anyone wants 123 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: to go find Scott Cornell's interviews on the internet, He's 124 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: interviewed a lot. He's far better at explaining the history 125 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: behind us. He's been he's been helping put away bad 126 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: guys for twenty years. But strategic cargo theft did it 127 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 2: did used to exist that way, Like there were rings 128 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: of people in parts of Kentucky, southern California, Texas that 129 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: that would just show up and hook to a trailer 130 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: or wait for a guy to go into a truck stop. 131 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: But it's very sophisticated now. So so we're now being 132 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: told by lots of sources that there are there are 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: black market by orders for certain types of cargo before 134 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: it's ever stolen. So most people think like a thief 135 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: is like, oh, it's really easy to sell Tito's vodka. No, 136 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: there's an order for that, right, There's there's somebody going Hey, 137 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: go get go find me five loads of Tito's vodka. 138 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: Go find me. Tires are a really high theft right 139 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: now because they can move on the black market. So 140 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: there are there are rings that are they're filling by 141 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: orders for for things that are in high demand to 142 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: be resold on the black market. 143 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: Wow. 144 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: You know, obviously fraud theft a big deal. I guess 145 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about you know, not 146 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: to make this so much of a commercial, but can 147 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: you talk about what does Highway do and how do 148 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: you prevent fraud because obviously if you're a broker or 149 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: a trucker, you kind of you kind of need products 150 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: like Highway to really help you combat fraud. 151 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's probably and yeah, we can 152 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: absolutely without it being a commercial because really what we 153 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: do is we apply the same k y C KYB, 154 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: Know your customer, know your business, the same principles that 155 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: exist and literally every area of life that you and 156 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,119 Speaker 2: every listener engages in, we just apply that and contextualize 157 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: it to the relationship between a freight broker and motor 158 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: carry So so for people that haven't followed Highway, our 159 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: CEO Jordan graft ran a Payments business inside of Triumph. 160 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: So members of this audience is probably very familiar with 161 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: Trent Financial and who they are in the trucking sector, 162 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: very very large factoring payments business and what happened when 163 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: Jordan was running Triumph Pay. So Triumph Pay paid freight 164 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: bills on behalf of freight brokers create a payments network, 165 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: and Jordan was getting payment reversal requests or stop payment requests. 166 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: Well that you can't just do. You can't just not 167 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: pay somebody, right, you have you have a contract like 168 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: somebody submits pod especially when you're a bank. You can't 169 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: just not pay somebody because your buddy at the freight 170 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: brokers told you not to, right. So that's one aspect. 171 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: And the second thing is, you know, payment reversals and 172 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: a payments business are really expensive. You know, it's it's 173 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: a it's it doesn't cost much to process payments, but 174 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 2: it's really expensive to reverse a payment. And so Jordan 175 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: looked at it and said, hey man, why are you 176 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 2: Why am I getting these reversal requests? And what brokers 177 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 2: were repeatedly saying, and then the growth was exponentials. We're 178 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: not really sure if they hauled the load right or 179 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: we can't find the load. And so he's saying, wait 180 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: a minute, you vetted on, you signed a contract, how 181 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: do you what do you mean they you didn't know, 182 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 2: you don't know who hauled the load. And when he 183 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: dug into the process, what he realized is that there 184 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: was no KYC. Like the very basic cybersecurity know your 185 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: customer principles that exist in every aspect of our life 186 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: did not exist in trucking. Right. It was very it 187 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: was very bottoms up approach. Hey, I found someone and 188 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: they're going to move this load for me. Now let 189 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: me go figure out if they're good or or hey, 190 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to go put my freight on a on 191 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: a public load board, which is in these days tantamount 192 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: to Craigslist. Let somebody call me. I don't know who's calling. 193 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: I have no idea who they are, but I'm gonna 194 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: take their word for it when they give me an 195 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: MC number and just hope for the best. Right let 196 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: them let them go to a website and fill out 197 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: a form right in sensely, So it's like we're gonna 198 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 2: go from the bottom and work our way up and hope 199 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: for the best. And what we just said was like, wait, 200 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: a minute, hang on, time out. Nobody does this, like 201 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 2: no healthcare doesn't do this, banking doesn't do this. Let's 202 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: start at the top and create an identity management platform 203 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: that just allows carriers to operate in the light, helps 204 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: good actors go really fast and introduces friction to bad actors, 205 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: or introduces friction when we don't see things, and allow 206 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: allow an entity to self heal the gray areas that 207 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: we can't prove. 208 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: So how does how does that happen? 209 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: So what is your Obviously it's a technology driven solutions. 210 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: So think about think about anything that you might engage 211 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: with that that it's a single stile experience, like like 212 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: when you use Google or you use something like stripe. Right, 213 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: you're gonna you're gonna be provided with a challenge that 214 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: forces you to prove who you are, and they're going 215 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: to put you through some hoops and give you some 216 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: codes and make you do a couple of different things 217 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: to not only make you prove who you are, but 218 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: you know, make sure somebody's on in personing you're not 219 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: using a different device. So so we did the same thing. 220 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: So when a motor carrier comes to highway, they have 221 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: to claim their profile claim their identity. To think about 222 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: like a like Like Google has profiles on every restaurant 223 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: North America, and the restaurant can go, hey, that's my restaurant. 224 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 2: I'm going to sign in and it's my restaurant. I 225 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: want to now manage that profile. It's the same thing. 226 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: We have a profile and every motor caure in North America. 227 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: And so when the motor carrier shows up, they sign in. 228 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: How we have to prove three things? One, who are they? 229 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: Who's the human? You can only authenticate one user to 230 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: one motor carrier. And we're going to look at all 231 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: kinds of things. Where are they logging in from? Are 232 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: they time traveling? Are they are they logging in from 233 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: Russia in the morning and Indianapolis in the afternoon? Are 234 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: they to use VPNs or verse residential proxies? Like? Are 235 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: they trying to hide? Who's the hum The second thing 236 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: is are they actually the motor carrier? So oftenimes people 237 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: will log in and they look kind of clean, but 238 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: are they authorized to represent that motor carrier? Right, they 239 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: may even be at the motor carrier, but they may 240 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: not be authorized to represent the motor carrier. Also, are 241 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 2: they a dispatch service. So one of the things that 242 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: a lot of people just in the in the in 243 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: your audience probably don't understand is there a companies out 244 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: there called dispatch services. They're not regulated, they're not freight brokers. 245 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: And I'll just call you and say, hey, Lee's trucking company. 246 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: You want me to dispatch for you. I'll go out 247 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 2: and find some loads for you. Right, And they may 248 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: be doing that for twenty different trucking companies and not 249 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 2: telling the people they're contracting with which company is actually 250 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: doing it. They're not. They don't carry any insurance. They're 251 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: just these wild West people with a phone and a computer, 252 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: all right, So we suck that. And then the third 253 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: piece is the motor carrier's capability. So this is what 254 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: didn't exist before Highway. One was the identity piece, and 255 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: three was the capability piece, which is a basic pillar 256 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: of identity access management. Right, who are you? Are you capable? 257 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: Trucking companies that have for example, five drive aands just 258 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: the NILA eighteen wheelers going up and down the road, right, 259 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: should not be booking twenty loads at a time. They 260 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: shouldn't be taking refrigerated freight, they shouldn't be taking flatbed freight. 261 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: So one of the problems that existed in fraud before 262 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: Highway is if you had a motor carrier number and 263 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: an insurance certificate and some trucks, and somebody could go 264 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: see that you had trucks have been inspected, they assumed 265 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: things about you. Right in the way that small asset 266 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 2: based carriers and even large ones have made money over 267 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: the years is by overbooking their markets. So anybody that 268 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 2: covers transports knows that you know, large public fleets operate 269 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 2: between a ninety five and a ninety nine operating ratio, 270 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: So the way they make money is by overbooking their 271 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: markets and then picking which freight they want to hauld. 272 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 2: Small carries do the same thing. So I'm gonna go 273 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: out and I'm gonna I'm gonna take my five trucks, 274 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: I'm gonna boo ten loads, pick the ones I want 275 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: to move, and either double broker or just not pick 276 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 2: up the other five. And so one of the things 277 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 2: we do is we say, hey, we're going to look 278 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: at your equipment and represent to the broker your actual capability, 279 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 2: and we're going to allow the broker to hold you 280 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 2: accountable to what you're capable of doing and not over 281 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: extending yourself. And so we do that by looking at 282 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: both the equipment account and the veins that are scheduled 283 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: on the insurance policy. 284 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: And so at highways. So who are the customers? Are 285 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: they the broker, are they the carriers or are they both? 286 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we only so I would say that that 287 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: carriers are absolutely a customer and that we have to 288 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: give them a great experience and we also have to 289 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: protect them. But we don't monetize that relationship, right, So 290 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: we do have a dual side of network. We do 291 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: have motor carriers using highway every day, hundreds of thousands 292 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: of times a day, hundreds of thousands of users. But 293 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: the paying customer is the freight broker. Okay, so the 294 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: customer that shows up and engages in the service to 295 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: protect their network is the freight broker. And we do 296 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: business with most of the top one hundre freightbrokers in 297 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: the country. 298 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: And then can you just like just talk about you 299 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: know what a what a typical fraud that you guys 300 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: are able to prevent looks like. 301 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: It's all aspects of it. Double broker and fictitious pick up, 302 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: the impersonation of a carrier. So all of those, all 303 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: the impersonation of the carrier leads to thefter double broker, 304 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: and so there's multiple layers at which we engage. And 305 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: one of the things we do lead it's very interesting 306 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: that know the provider does, is we we put all 307 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: of our technology, we actually get to the load level. 308 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: So so sometimes bad actors are very very very very good, 309 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: and they it's a it's a game. They love to 310 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: try to figure out how to thwart any any new 311 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: fraud prevention efforts. So sometimes a bad actor will get 312 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: all the way to the point of getting a load, 313 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: but all of the things I just explained to you, 314 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 2: we boil them down to the load level. So when 315 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: we look at their equipment, if they're out of range, 316 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: if they're doing something that's uncharacteristic, if they suddenly begin overbooking, 317 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: we can alert a customer that something's going on in 318 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: that load. And so we catch people both at the 319 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: at the signing level, we catch them at the load 320 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: booking level, and then we'll look for anomalies and transit 321 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: and actually catch a load that's potentially being stolen and 322 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: allow the customer to intervene. When we see a. 323 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: Flag, right, and then when you guys see something that's fishy, 324 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: did you let the authorities know? Or I guess a 325 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: crime hasn't been committed yet, So. 326 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a little bit like minority report, 327 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: like I think there's going to be a crime and 328 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: you should go arrest this guy, which I mean most 329 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: of the time we're right. So we do a couple 330 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: of things. One we're a little bit different than most 331 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: SaaS or software businesses is that we will we will 332 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: absolutely provide labor to a problem to service our customers. 333 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: So we do two things. One of the other reasons 334 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: that fraud was able to thrive is because freight brokers 335 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: didn't have the ability to manage exceptions when it came 336 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: to motor carrier compliance. They had to constantly dig through 337 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: all of the data in multiple screens. So we do 338 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: is we just say, look, here's what you need to 339 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: look at on a carrier. We just need to look 340 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: at these three things, and so we provide them really 341 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: robust exception management, and the biggest brokers in the country 342 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,479 Speaker 2: they just consume that into their system and they are 343 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: building AI and automation around that, and it's really beautiful 344 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: for a mid market broker. We provide them a really 345 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: beautiful screen where we just tell them here are the 346 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: things you need to go look at. That's what we do. 347 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: From a product side, From a service side, we actually 348 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 2: call them. We'll call the motor carrier if we think 349 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: there's an anomaly and say, hey, this is what it 350 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: looks like like. We've called carriers before and they've said, 351 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: I don't that's not my load. I don't have that. 352 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: Nobody gave me that load, right, And so oftentimes what 353 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: happens is if a bad actor can get one load, 354 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: they can get ten. So if we can stop them 355 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: at the first one, we prevent them from getting the 356 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: other ten. So a lot of what we do is 357 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: very dynamic. So to plainly we give them exceptions to manage, 358 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 2: but we also support them by calling the carrier and 359 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: calling the broker and saying you need to look at this. 360 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: We will our customer success team will actually alert the 361 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: freight broker to help them understand the exceptions were given. 362 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: Over right, you mentioned earlier that you know it's gotten 363 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: pretty sophisticated, and from what I understand, like a lot 364 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: of this fraud, it's not just you know, some guy 365 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: in his basement. A lot of it as is out 366 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: of the country. It's like Eastern European like, it's. 367 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: Teams of people overseas. I mean downloading, downloading the FMCSA 368 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: database and running complex sequel queries to look for anomalies 369 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 2: and email addresses that they can. Then I mean we 370 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: saw what was the We got the L and I 371 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: file one day and I think we saw. 372 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: What's the L and I file for those. 373 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: Licensing and insurance from the FMCSA. They produced a licening 374 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 2: and insurance file and in that are changes to motor 375 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 2: carrier records, right, and we saw mass changes in like 376 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 2: like ten or twelve thousand phone numbers one day, like 377 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 2: just mass changes, all changed to different phone numbers with 378 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 2: the same area code prefix. Like is people don't you 379 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: don't do that over now right? Right? So now, okay, 380 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: so when I talk about how they're adapted, well they 381 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 2: figured out that we're hip to that. So now what 382 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: they do is they they are trying to buy MC numbers. 383 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: We call them seasoned. They're seasoned dem C numbers. They've 384 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: been existing for a few years. They've actually had trucks 385 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: on them, and they'll call some owner and offer them 386 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars anywhere from five to twenty five 387 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: thousand dollars to buy their company. They're not buying the company, 388 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: they're buying the log in information to their to their 389 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: to all their accounts, and they'll go out and they'll 390 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: they'll they'll purchase as many of those season dem c's. 391 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 2: So what happened before is you just went got mc 392 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: numbers and it was really easy to get to a 393 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: broker's network, and you just you burned them and you 394 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: just kept going. And we've made it really hard. You 395 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 2: can't do that anymore. We just can't. So now you 396 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: have to go buy season mc numbers and there's a 397 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 2: very short window of how long you can do that 398 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: before you burn them. And so the reason one of 399 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 2: the things is it's gotten more expensive. Right, So the 400 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: the operating costs of the bad actors actually gone up 401 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: because they're having to get more sophisticated and they're having 402 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: to invest more capital in their own in their own 403 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: theft business because they have to go purchase seasoned m 404 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: C numbers. So now you actually have collusion and like 405 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: these owners, they're not innocent. Man, you meet a guy 406 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 2: in a McDonald's parking lot and sign a shady bill 407 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 2: of sale with no asset transfer. They don't want your trucks, 408 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 2: they just want your logins, like they know. Yeah, these owners, 409 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: these these sellers that claim to be legitimate, they know. 410 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: I mean, come on right, Like then that's literally how 411 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: these things happen. Meet me in a parking lot. I 412 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: don't want anybody to see me. Here's your bill of sale, 413 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: here's your twenty. 414 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: Five thousand dollars cash. 415 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: Write down all your log in information, not your customer list, 416 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: anything else. 417 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 3: Just to log in. 418 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just curious, you know. It seems like double broking. 419 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: It kind of like creates a lot of fraud in 420 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: the industry. Is like the TIA, which is like for 421 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: those that don't know, it's the industry trade group for 422 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: for freight brokers. Are they actively trying to pass laws 423 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: or get laws passed where double broking is illegal or 424 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: do they like double broking because sometimes there's a need 425 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: for it. 426 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: So there's let's talk about double brokering. So double brokering 427 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: is the word we use when we want to talk 428 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: about co brokering in a negative sense. Okay, but code 429 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: brokering is very different. So like here's what people understand. 430 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: All contract logistics is double brokering, like like federally like 431 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: they you don't. You can be a motor carrier, commoner 432 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 2: contract you can be a freight forwarder, or you can 433 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: be a freight broker. There is no designation for three 434 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: pl contract logistics. So when you when you look at 435 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: a Penske, a Writer, Robinson, TMC, these are all people 436 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: that have contract logistics businesses that contract other freight brokers. 437 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: That technically is double broker. But that's a legitimate contracted 438 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: co brokering agreement, right, it is papered. There are agreements 439 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 2: in place, so that exists. Right, contract logistics where two 440 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: three pls are sharing business, that is technically double broker. 441 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: So that's not bad. It's the unknown, shady double brokering 442 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 2: that's problem. Now back to t TA lobbies has been 443 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: lobbying Congress for years about double brokering and dispatch services 444 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: and Congress doesn't care. 445 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, but it's a big issue, right, you know, 446 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: you're huge. We were talking about offline. You know, it 447 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: impacts the cost of to consumers because you know, it 448 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: is not a victimless crime. 449 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 2: No it's not. And so and the thing that that 450 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 2: would be important to understand is when I got into 451 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: this business, not a ton of freight moved through through brokers. 452 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 2: You know, the company I started with was about an 453 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: eighty million dollar top line revenue business when I started, 454 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: when I when I left that business about one hundred 455 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 2: and fifty million, and it was a it was a 456 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 2: top one hundred freight broker. There are many, many, many 457 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million dollars freight brokers out there, right, 458 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 2: and so and there are many billion dollar brokers. So 459 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: fragmentation is increasing within small motor carriers. So a lot 460 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: of people don't know that ninety six percent of fleets 461 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: going up and down the road are comprised of ten 462 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: trucks or less. Right, So the the transports that your 463 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: audience may cover, they they're they're four percent market right right. 464 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Most of the market is the small owner operator. And 465 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: so there's a lot of fragmentation in that business. And 466 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: then and brokers, brokers scooped that up. Brokers make help 467 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: try to help balance those networks and large large fleets, 468 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: and that's only going to get that's only going to 469 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 2: continue because large fleets are moving more and more away 470 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: from what we would call it irregular route or one 471 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: way moves and concreasingly moving to either exclusively dropping hook 472 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: or dedicated mm hmm right. So like like, I don't 473 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: want to out of because are my customers. But there's 474 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of large public trucking companies. 475 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: They're not gonna pick up your one way freight anymore. Yeah, 476 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 2: you're gonna pay them for all their miles, or they're 477 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 2: gonna they're gonna build a really robust network with dropping 478 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: hook freight. So it only increases fragmentation, which only increases 479 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: the need for freight brokers. And so so what happens 480 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: is the freight broker ends up picking a lot of 481 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 2: the expense and the liability because the shipper pool pushes 482 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: all the liability to the broker. The small motor carrey 483 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: doesn't have any money. It's a penny's business, and so 484 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: the cost fraud drives insurance cost up, it drives operating 485 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: expense up. Okay, so the broker then has to raise 486 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: the rate just to be even able to cover themselves. Well, 487 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 2: the shipper doesn't absorb that. It goes to you, it 488 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: goes to me, right right, And so all of the 489 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 2: the expense of fraud and the liability that the shipper 490 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: pushes and forces onto the broker all gets pushed to 491 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 2: the consumer. 492 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: Right, and insurances for those listening, the insurance has become 493 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: a major issue for a lot of trucking companies. 494 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 3: Their premiums have gone up considerably. 495 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: And not only their premiums, but you know, when there's 496 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: a lawsuit, those verdicts tend to be extremely high relative 497 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: to you know, where a typical verdict might have been 498 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: five years ago. So Planet off Attorneys, if you're driving anywhere, 499 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: you see some of those billboards on the side of 500 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: the roads for the Planet Attorneys going after trucking companies 501 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: because they're viewed just having deep pockets and it really 502 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: does impact their margins and the trucking company's ability to 503 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: reinvest in their fleet. And to your point, that's kind 504 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: of why, like the large companies like the JB Hunts 505 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: of the world, would rather do dedicated or push stuff 506 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: into their brokerage business versus buying trucks. 507 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 3: For the regular route business. 508 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because for a large string company, consistency reduces risk, 509 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 2: right right, I know what I'm doing, I'm doing it 510 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: more and more and then the the insurance cost is 511 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: also high for a broker. What's interesting about insurance cost 512 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: because what you're really talking about is is auto liability, 513 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: like the liability insurance of the and that was always 514 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: the big one, and brokers were always straddling this line 515 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 2: between vicarious liability and negligent hiring. Right, you're gonna assume 516 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: me because I didn't do enough, or're gonna assume me 517 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 2: because I did too much. Okay, that's that was always 518 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 2: the one. But now we've also seen really really the 519 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 2: cost of cargo insurance has gone up. Right, So if 520 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: you're a freight broker, a lot of times your contingent cargo, 521 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 2: they're not great policies. It's very hard to trigger coverage. 522 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 2: There's a lot of exclusions, and so now you're kind 523 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: of getting if you're a freight broker and a carre 524 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 2: you're kind of getting double hit. Your liability premiums are 525 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: going way up because of the religious nature of just 526 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: our society, and your your cargo premiums are going way 527 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: up because of the amount of theft and losses associating 528 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: with fraud. 529 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: Is is there like one thing or maybe two things 530 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: that the industry can do, whether it's the broker industry 531 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: or the trucking industry. Besides using services like Highway to 532 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: reduce fraud or are there like like easy wins out 533 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: there that the industry should pick up as best practices. 534 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what we're really advocating for is even 535 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 2: even outside of Highway, just adopts standards. Right. So there's 536 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 2: a there's a freight fraud symposium that Freightwaves is hosting 537 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: in May, and one of the things that we're going 538 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 2: to try to advocate for is just not to understand 539 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: that like this is this is a product to go buy, 540 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: but but it's a kyc kyb. It's a standard the 541 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: industry should adopt, and so shippers should do the same thing, 542 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: like I think I think carriers are doing are doing 543 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: everything they can. That's a again, it's a penny's business, 544 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: so they're already they're already strapped. 545 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 3: Right right, Actually in this environment. 546 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the best brokers in the country they're 547 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: doing this. They're doing everything they can to fight for 548 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 2: their shipper, to fight for their business because it erodes 549 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: their margins and it then when the more you have, 550 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: the more fraud you have in your business. If you're 551 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: if you're a large three pl it impacts your the 552 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 2: service to the shipper because you're you're wasting time on fraud, right, 553 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: I think I think shippers could get more engaged and 554 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: own their part of the problem, right and and and 555 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: that has to do with some of the the unrealistic 556 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: expectations they put on the freight broker and what they 557 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: do at the top. Like there there are things that 558 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: a shipper could do to collaborate with the broker at 559 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 2: the point of pickup that would greatly reduce the instance 560 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: of theft. 561 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: Can you give it like a simple example. 562 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one of the easiest things is just 563 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 2: just verify the driver. I mean, we've seen theft events 564 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: where the shipper makes a photocopy of an expired driver's 565 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: license and lets the ship then go right right. So, 566 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: one thing that's really common in theft is a bad 567 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: actor will take all of the bolts on the trailer 568 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: locksley and on the outside of their smooth rivets on the 569 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: inside the bolts, they'll reverse them. So for six bolts, 570 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: you can unmove the whole lock mechanism, the bolt seal 571 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: stays intact. You can pill for the load, put the 572 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: lock back and the bolt seal shows up in tact, 573 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: shippers should just like look at the trailer and not 574 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: load that trailer. That trailer is configured for one reason 575 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 2: and one reason only. Hey, I'm gonna strip it and 576 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: put it on the rail, or I'm gonna pill for 577 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: the freight, or I'm gonna steal the freight. That's it 578 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: is the only reason you have that configuration. Hey, just 579 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: how about just don't load that trailer. Yeah, I just 580 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: don't do that, right. I mean, let's think about an 581 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 2: electronic bill of lading. Right, so there's a there's a 582 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 2: big problem with pil fridge. Right, Whereas something like like 583 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: what I just explained happens. Somebody goes and picks up 584 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: a load of one hundred TVs, an eighty show up, 585 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: but in transit, they've doctored the bill of lading. Right, 586 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 2: So Johnny on the dock at the receiver signs of 587 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: bill A says eighty TVs and he counts eighty TVs 588 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: and he's like, man, work it to go. So why 589 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: why are we still doing like why do we still 590 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: have a paper bill of lading? 591 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? 592 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: And just we just take there, Like what does somebody 593 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: not have a computer that can like send in a communication. 594 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: Is like they're supposed to be a hundred of these. 595 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 2: If the piece of paper says something different, that's a problem. Like, like, 596 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: how in twenty twenty five, is that the way we're 597 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: still doing things. It just blows my mind. 598 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, especially everybody. 599 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: You know a lot of old trucks have to have 600 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: pretty much little computers in their in their trucks already. 601 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: H oh, we're putting cameras on them, right, I mean 602 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 2: what we've done to the driver and the cab. But 603 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: yet a shipper can just kind of willy nilly ship 604 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: something on a on a piece of paper, right, So 605 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: it's that that piece of paper is electronically produced from 606 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: an ERP and it goes out, but there's nothing to 607 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: verify that that document hasn't been altered between the time 608 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: that it leaves the shipper and gets to the continue. Now, 609 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: nowhere else in commerce do we treat critical documents that 610 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: way right Nowhere everything's docu signed er behind a wall, 611 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 2: Like so, why are we still handing a physical piece 612 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: of paper that can be doctored to a driver and 613 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: then like just letting that be signed for it the 614 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: other end? Like that blows my mind that that still exists. 615 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: So how does that change? That means that change from 616 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 3: from a. 617 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: Federal supper has to take some responsibility. 618 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: But does there have to be a federal regulation that says, well. 619 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: God, I would hope not. I mean, I'm I'm the 620 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: rigging guy. Like when the government shows up says they're 621 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: here to help, that's a really bad thing. And so 622 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: I just I think. 623 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: Some regulations are good, not all. 624 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 2: Some regulations are good. Some regulations are good. I think 625 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: it's I think it's standards, right, Like, this is one 626 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: of the things I've been thinking a lot about lately. 627 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: You know, the two thousand and eight financial crisis produced 628 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: these standards. You look at Robinhood, do you look at Stripe, 629 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: you look, you'll get the fintech boom that came out 630 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: of that and it it it created a lot of 631 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: really positive downstream effects for the consumer and the way 632 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 2: that we just interact with financial institutions. And I think 633 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: the industry just has to get together and adopt standards. 634 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: And look, one of the things we say at highway, 635 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 2: like we have a lane we exist between the freight 636 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: broker and the motor carrier. I can't go fix problems 637 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: that aren't that aren't mine to solve. You know, if 638 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: we kind of go extending ourselves into things we're not 639 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: good at, we're just gonna make a mess. Right. But 640 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: I think we have to look at the other cracks 641 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: in the system, and the industry as a whole has 642 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: to start adopting some standards around the way that we're 643 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: going to communicate and transference information. 644 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit more about about highways. 645 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: So it's a relatively new company. When was it When was. 646 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: It founded twenty two? Sometime in twenty two, okay, twenty two, 647 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: I think, very new. 648 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: And are you guys pee owned or is it the 649 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: founders still have all the ownership? 650 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: We are not. The founder owns the majority of business. 651 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,959 Speaker 2: We raised a very moderate amount of capital and are profitable, 652 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: so we we control our own destiny, so to speak. 653 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: We're not We're not a fundraising company. We're a for 654 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: profit company. 655 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: And growth is coming from getting more into the that 656 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: fragmented brokerage industry, or is it offering more products that 657 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: are related to fraud. 658 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 2: It's a little bit of both. The majority of the 659 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 2: growth we kind of there was no category of carry 660 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: identity before us Lee, so we were able to create 661 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: in trademark category and really talk about carry identity. And 662 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 2: so what we like to say is as a startup, 663 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: we're blessed to be born with product market fit. We 664 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: didn't have to kind of go figure that out, and 665 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: so our growth was really rapid. I've been in the 666 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: industry for a long time, Jordan had a tremendous amount 667 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: of credibility coming from the payments business, and so what 668 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: we were able to do early was just leverage our 669 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: personal relationships and promise our friends we would help them. 670 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: Personal friends of ours that were losing hundreds of thousands 671 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: of dollars and millions of dollars because they had incumbent 672 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 2: providers that fell asleep at the wheel, and so we 673 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: just said, hey, what will help you? We promise will 674 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 2: help you. And so we really focused on early was 675 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: just getting five customers and then getting ten and solving 676 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 2: a problem. And those customers told our story for us. 677 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 2: And so you know, our first our first one hundred 678 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 2: customers were all referral and that's really grown organically in 679 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: that way. Now today there is growth expansion because you know, 680 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: we're building more products. We needed to get into the 681 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: inbox and fight the fraud that exists at the inbox level. 682 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 2: We needed to get into the phone system. Bad actors 683 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: will flood phone, so we have a phone product. We 684 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,959 Speaker 2: needed to get into the visibility space to be able 685 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 2: to tell if locations were being spoofed. But everything we 686 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 2: do is around fraud, right, Everything we do is around 687 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 2: protecting the broker. Then and then we focus on the 688 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 2: downstream efficiencies that come from now. 689 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: Right And are you just right now, your your service 690 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: available just in the US or do you are you 691 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: guys in Canada and Mexico or other other parts of 692 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: the world. 693 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so only in the US. Obviously we service Canada 694 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 2: and Mexico because our customers cross freight in and out 695 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: of those countries. But we don't I wouldn't say we 696 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 2: have a presence there, you know, you know, buy some 697 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 2: transports customer, they're Canadian company and there they cross freight 698 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 2: and now logistics. So so in that way we service 699 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 2: Canada and Mexico, and that we serve freight brokers that 700 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: are moving freight in and out. 701 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: Of those markets. Gotcha, And so you know, you mentioned 702 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: that you've been in the industry for a while. How 703 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: did you stumble into transportation or. 704 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 2: Like everybody so nobody goes to college, at least not 705 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 2: in my demographic and is like, I'm going to be 706 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: a freight broker, right, you know, we're all told to 707 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: I get into commerce or computer science or something like. 708 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: I literally stumbled into it. I was in college and 709 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: engaged and needed a job, and I just started looking 710 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 2: for sales jobs and I got recruited when I was 711 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 2: in two thousand and four, and I fell in love 712 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 2: with the I fell in love with the business. I 713 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 2: fell in love with the idea of being able to 714 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 2: just solve a problem between between two really different parties, 715 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 2: you know, shippers that are just trying to find things 716 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: moved and motor carriers that are just trying to make 717 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: a living and be efficient. And I just I fell 718 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 2: in love with it. And I tried to get out 719 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: of it a couple of times, and I just ended 720 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: up backing it. So yeah, I've done that in a 721 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 2: variety of context for almost twenty years now. 722 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: And I guess what do you miss most about your 723 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: days of being a freight broker? 724 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 2: Don't miss it at all? What I because what I 725 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 2: love is I'm so the business is so ingrained in me. 726 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: But I actually love is being able to serve freight 727 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: brokers from a position of having been one. Is what 728 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 2: I suffered from as an operator were tech vendors that 729 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 2: didn't understand my business and didn't want to take the 730 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 2: time to understand it. So I think one of the 731 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 2: reasons how he's been successful. I know one of the 732 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 2: reasons how he's been successful is we weren't founded out 733 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: of Silicon Valley with a thesis and a fundraise that 734 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: told brokers we were smarter than them, and brokers suffered 735 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: from that for about ten years. And if you look 736 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 2: at a lot of those companies, they haven't they haven't 737 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 2: had an exit, they haven't gone public, they haven't done anything. 738 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 2: They've sold at a discount or been absorbed by an 739 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 2: operating company or something like that. And so so as 740 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: a broker, like I lived that, I lived paying freight 741 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 2: bills for people that didn't listen and wanted to or 742 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 2: these digital brokers that wanted to come on the scene 743 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 2: with you know, millions and millions of dollars in capital 744 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 2: and say they were smarter than the freight broker, and 745 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 2: that hasn't gone well for them. And so what I 746 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 2: love about having been a freight broker now serving freight 747 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 2: brokers is we served them from the context of their seat. 748 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 2: We served them from the context of their business, their 749 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: p and L and what they need, rather than than 750 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 2: treating them like they have some existential problem that we're 751 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 2: going to be the hope for. That was never the answer, 752 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 2: and we just we just won't treat our customers. 753 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: That way, right, And so I like to ask my 754 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: guests this questions. Usually do it towards the end. You know, 755 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: is there a book on leadership or business or transportation 756 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: that you know stuck with you through the years? 757 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 2: Oh? Man, other's several. I've never read a book on transportation. 758 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 2: I've never been asked that question. Maybe I should go 759 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 2: find one. If someone's written a great book on transportation, 760 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 2: send it to me. I think. I think the first 761 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 2: book that everyone should read and reread a couple of 762 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 2: times a year is How to Win Friends and Influence 763 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 2: People by Deale Carnegie. I had to read that in 764 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 2: my first job and the first sales training I was 765 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 2: ever in, and I reread that every couple of years. 766 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 2: My favorite chapter in that book is how to talk 767 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 2: in terms of the other person's interest and really understand people. 768 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 2: I think my favorite business book on execution is Great 769 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 2: by Choice. Most people love good to Great. I prefer 770 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 2: Great by Choice. It's a follow up to that book, 771 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 2: and in that book, Jim Collins really talks about concepts 772 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 2: like the twenty mile March and how to really get 773 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,959 Speaker 2: specific about creating a flywheel in a business, and things 774 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 2: like capitalizing on luck events. I just I've learned so 775 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 2: much from his research. Yeah, those are those are probably 776 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 2: two of my favorite books. And I'm reading a book 777 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: right now that I love I would recommend called Play Bigger. 778 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: And ever since I worked with Craig Fuller, I was 779 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 2: fascinated about this by this idea of category creation, and 780 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 2: so Play Bigger talks about creating categories and doing big things. 781 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 2: And one of the things I love about that book 782 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 2: is that it talks about there's nobody. Nobody ever set 783 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 2: nobody created a category or disrupted an industry by setting 784 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 2: out to do so. They set out to think about 785 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 2: a problem in a fundamentally different way, and it became 786 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 2: disruptive and it became a category creator. And that's really 787 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 2: the story of Highway. We didn't set out to create 788 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 2: a new we just wanted to solve a problem. We 789 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 2: want to think about the problem different. So those are 790 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 2: those are my three top ones right now, i'd give people. 791 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: All right, great And for those that don't know, Craig 792 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: Fuller is from Freight Waves fame. He started freight Waves 793 00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: and which is a huge transport portal for those that 794 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: they're interested to learn more about the industry. So, Michael, 795 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: I really want to really want to thank you for 796 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: your time and insights. And I think what you guys 797 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: are doing at the Highway is really great because like 798 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, you're not just solving a problem, 799 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: You're you're really making supply chains what I would say 800 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: is probably more efficient. So, uh, you know, best of 801 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: luck and continuing to do that. 802 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. 803 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate it all right, and I want to thank 804 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: you for tuning in. If you liked the episode, please 805 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: subscribe and leave review. We've lined up a number of 806 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: great guests for the podcast, so please check back to 807 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: your conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, and decision 808 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: makers within the freight markets. Also, if you want to 809 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: learn more about freight transportation markets, check out our work 810 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal at b Igo or on social media. 811 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: This is Lee Clasgow signing off and thanks for talking 812 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: transports with me. 813 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 3: Bye.