1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Alone media. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: It could happen here. It's it could happen here. The 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: podcasts that is about. I don't know how everyone hates 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: trans people and how this has become a sort of 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: cross partisan thing. I'm your host, Bio Wong. We are 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: we have been doing. Oh god, I don't even know 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: what sort of number of RNC episodes are going to 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: have come out before this thing before you hear this episode. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: But we are once again turning away from their republic 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: from the sort of chaos and despair of the Republican Party, 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: to turn it towards the chaos and despair of the 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: Democratic Party. Yeah, we're gonna specifically be talking about a 13 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: series of what I think we're kind of high profile 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: fights in trans circles over sort of the administration very 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: publicly starting to write off trans kids. I don't think 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: it got that much news attention because as as you 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: may have noticed, it is. Yeah, a lot of this 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: is by very specifically Biden administration stuff. We are recording 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: the Sunday Warning the morning of the twenty first. There 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: is a real chance that by the end of the 21 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: day Biden is no longer the nominee. So we'll get 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: into that a little bit, but as of right now, 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: he's still the guy and he is fucking us. So, yeah, 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: with you to talk about this is Karin Green, who 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: we have had on the show before. Is a trans 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: policy expert of many organizations and much experience, and yeah, 27 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: welcome back on this. Welcome back to the show. 28 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks to having a mea. Yeah, it's kind of 29 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 3: fun to come back on to talk more about this, 30 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: because the timing of when you had me on last 31 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 3: time was pretty much just before a montha four he 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: went public with this new stuff we're going to talk about. 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the last time we were talking about this, 34 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: it was largely about stuff that was kind of like 35 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: plausibly deniable for the administration. It was a lot of 36 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: sort of stuff buried in bureaucratic medutia. Whether or not 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: any of that stuff even exists anymore given recent Supreme 38 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 2: Court rulings that have effectively annihilated the administrative state, who knows. 39 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: But now having had the Supreme Court get their ability 40 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: to do this sort of non plausibly, they have full 41 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: lot gone on the record against trans kids. So I 42 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: guess I want to start there. Can can you sort 43 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: of explain what happened with this New York Times story 44 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: that kind of kicked this whole saga off. 45 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, so kind of the context is, I'm a trans 46 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: policy analyst. It's what I do. Unfortunately, are not that 47 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: many of us in the country, and all those of us, 48 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 3: many of us are still employed in the movement organizations, 49 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: so they can't talk about this stuff humbly. But so 50 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: he's been putting out the regulations that the Biden administration 51 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 3: has been putting out are not good regulations for trans people, right, 52 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: But it's hard to help people understand that they're transphobic 53 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 3: because it's a five hundred page regulation and so you know, 54 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 3: it's kind of wonky, a little weird. And if there 55 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: is comms like the Biden administration and the orgs have 56 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: been putting out calling him pro trans and all this stuff, 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 3: there's a big barrier to overcome there with a wonky 58 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: stuff like that. But what happened a couple of days 59 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 3: after the debate, which I'm sure everyone saw, or if 60 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: you didn't want didn't watch it live, you realized in 61 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: a horror that you now had to watch it to 62 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 3: understand what this country is going through. They there was 63 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: some initial reporting around how the w PATH Standards of 64 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: Care Version eight came out. So WPATH is the World 65 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: Professional Association for transter or Health. It's either last year 66 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 3: or the year before they updated the Standards of Care 67 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 3: seven to Standards of Care eight. This is a little background, sorry, 68 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: And at the time there was discussion among WPATH members, 69 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: doctors and kind of policy people to some degree about 70 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: whether mentioning kind of rough ages for what time, what 71 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: age people tend to start certain treatments like purity blockers, hormones, 72 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: that kind of thing, what kind of normal normal age 73 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 3: ranges those things happening. We know from years and years 74 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: of advocacy and work and activism is that if some 75 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: write something like those things down, even if they present 76 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: it as a kind of loose guideline or this is 77 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 3: where things typically fall, policymakers will write that stuff into 78 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: law and rig and take what is supposed to give 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 3: doctors and patients, you know, room to figure out what 80 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 3: works best for them, and make it a very strict regime. 81 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 3: And so transactivists did not want ages in the WPATH 82 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: sock eight for that reason. And in the one and 83 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: only instance of pro trans advocacy that I'm aware of 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: her ever engaging in it. Rachel Levine in AHHS kind 85 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: of advocated with w Path not to include those age 86 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 3: ranges in it. Yeah. 87 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: Levine, by the way, is like the o WT A 88 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: health secretary. I think, Yeah, she's like the only trans Like. 89 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 3: She's the highest ranked trans like you know, White House 90 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 3: official ever. 91 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: By like an order of magnitude. She's like, she's like 92 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: the only transperson, like openly transperson possibly in history to 93 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: ever like get to a position where she has some authority, 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: and she doesn't use it ever except this one time. 95 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: It's a bit disappointment too. I was her biggest fan 96 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: in the world because she passed. She wrote Pennsylvania's Narkann 97 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 3: Standing Order, and I based my law in Louisiana legalizing 98 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 3: Narkhann and our subsequent standing order on hers. So I 99 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: thought it was really cool that Transforms had done this 100 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: in both places, and I really really was a big 101 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: And then she just crickets nothing. It's all this terrible 102 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 3: stuff happens. So that's the context in which The New 103 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: York Times was reporting they somebody had gotten, like some 104 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 3: bad guys had gotten some of the emails between Levin 105 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: and w Path and we're like trying to make it 106 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: into a scandal, right, and they and the bad guys 107 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 3: misrepresented kind of what the issue and discussion was about. Right, 108 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: So we discussed what it was, but the way that 109 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 3: they would present it as, oh, you know, w Path 110 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: was trying to limit treatments to kids being old enough 111 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: of a certain age, which is not what they were doing. 112 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: And they were trying to present Levine as trying to 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 3: get rid of those so that five year olds could 114 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: have surgery or whatever. It's so, you know, just very 115 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 3: very insincere. But so the media was kind of reporting 116 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: just on that because they love muck breaking. 117 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and partially the other thing we should mention it 118 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: is it was really it was extremely hard to figure 119 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: out what was going on for the issue reporting because 120 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: the New York Times, instead of employing trans journalists, they 121 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 2: employed transphobic journalists. And the thing about transherbic journalists, they 122 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: don't fucking understand policy at all. They're like, they're absolute 123 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: fucking clouds. These people have no idea what the fuck 124 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: they're talking about, and so you know, when they're trying 125 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: to write a story that's about like leaked technical policy documents, 126 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: they have no fucking idea what they're doing, and the 127 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: reporting is gibberish. It's like I was trying to understand it. 128 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: And this is a real issue because the only source 129 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: we had was this document of this New York Times 130 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: writer who like couldn't like the New York Times writer 131 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: who like couldn't find the back of their hand with 132 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: a map right trying to like write out these skinned emails. 133 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: I'm convinced SIS people don't even understand that they don't 134 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: know what they're talking about, because I think they just 135 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: inherently feel like, oh, I have a gender, therefore I 136 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: know everything about gender idea. 137 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, and like I I I, and 138 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: it's this is like mostly kind of like fine ish. 139 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: But the problem is when you have you know, when 140 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: you have CIS journalists who don't know anything about trans 141 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: like people at all, who in a lot of places 142 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 2: don't think trans people exist, trying to write these policy things. 143 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: It's they they have nothing. 144 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: And yeah, so it wasn't presented super clearly, and so 145 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: other people had questions, some justified, some based on misunder 146 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: that misunderstanding, some not. But anyway, there was additional kind 147 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: of back and forth between the media and the White House, 148 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: they were asking about it, and in that the White 149 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 3: House at one point told them that they opposed surgery 150 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: for transgender youth. And then, obviously that is, at least publicly, 151 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: that is a new position for the President who has 152 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: has been called not by me but by other people, 153 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 3: you know, one hundred percent pro trans super great ally 154 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: his entire administration. I disagree with that, but other people 155 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: have been saying that for a long time. And so 156 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: that took a lot of people by surprise and was 157 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 3: a big kind of kurf lefvel. And so that's kind 158 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: of the jumping off point for where we're going here. 159 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: And so that happened. That came out on a Friday 160 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 3: in the New York Times that the White House opposed 161 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: surgery for trans miners, and nobody talked like. There were 162 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: no responses from the orgs, There was no additional reporting, 163 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: no follow up from the White House that Friday, not 164 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: that Saturday, not that Sunday, although that Sunday Sunday evening, 165 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: the heads of three national large National LGBTQ Advocacy orgs, HRC, 166 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 3: Family Equality Council, and National LGBTQ Task Force went on 167 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: all three together an MSNBC show. The host I don't 168 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 3: remember his name, but he has an MSNBC show, writes 169 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: for Washington Post and then also contributes to PBS News Hour, Right. 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: And so none of these three people that we pay 171 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 3: to advocate for us or this journalist brought up this 172 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: very fresh, very pertinent, very relevant New White House position. 173 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: They just talked about like how important it is to 174 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: vote and how much fun they had at pride parades 175 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 3: instead of garbage, right, And so it was very weird 176 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: to me that these three people who represent LGBT obviousy 177 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: organizations would not immediately vocally condemn that kind of anti transtance. 178 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: And it also blew my mind that this journalist must 179 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 3: be like allergic to scoops or something like why yeah, 180 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 3: why wouldn't you like that's your chance right there? 181 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 2: I mean I I genuine And you think the journalists 182 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: didn't know because like this stuff didn't break out of 183 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: like a very small sort of like transphere by this point, right, I. 184 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: Mean it's in the New York Times. 185 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: You're given like but like like nobody cares about like people. 186 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: People don't care about us like you. You would think 187 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: that these people would know but like, I genuinely don't 188 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: even know if this person had any idea what was happening, 189 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 2: because I trust journalists to write about trans people about 190 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: as much as I trust myself to be able to 191 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: bench for us a car. 192 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 3: So you know, yeah, So that came and went Sunday evening, Nope, 193 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: And I was going insane the whole time, right, because 194 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: for me, as a trans policy analyst, you know, I've 195 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: been I've noticed and been and been calling Biden's transphobic 196 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: REGs and executive words and stuff problematic and transphobic since 197 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: I first noticed it and picked up on it, which 198 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: was you know, two or three years ago now. And 199 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 3: so for me, it was a very kind of complicated 200 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: feeling of Okay, now, at least other people don't have 201 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: to take my word about the rags. There's something they 202 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: can look at and see it themselves. But I was 203 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: also you know, completely threw off my sleep schedule. I 204 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: was bouncing off the walls, going and see and trying 205 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: to you know, or organize responses. And so the first org, 206 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: actually I think I believe it was HRC, issued a 207 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: statement Monday night, and it was a decent statement. I 208 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 3: might have critiques of them whatever, and then the rest 209 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 3: of the orgs kind of didn't issue statements until Tuesday evening, 210 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: and so that Tuesday also the White House issued a 211 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: statement that to clarify their position, and the statement actually 212 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: made it worse. So what the statement said was that 213 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: they do oppose surgery for transgender youth. So they reiterated that, 214 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 3: and then it went on to say, however, we continue 215 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 3: to support gender affirming care for youth, such as mental 216 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 3: health care. Period. I mean, it wasn't it was a 217 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 3: common the THEA said other but they didn't list other 218 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 3: things that they supported, right, So, like the only thing 219 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 3: they put in the list that they supported was mental 220 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: health care, which to a policy person, again, you're not 221 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: sneaking those things past me. If you're talking about trans 222 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 3: healthcare and the only thing that you say that you 223 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: support is mental health care, I'm very worried. I'm very concerned, right, 224 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 3: because if you're pro trans and you support trans access 225 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: to healthcare, it is not complicated or hard or controversial 226 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: for you to say, yeah, you know, I support trans 227 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 3: people and their access to health care. They should have 228 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 3: access to therapy, hormones, pubity blockers, surgery, whatever they need, 229 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 3: like it's not complex there, right, But they didn't do that, 230 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: And so to me that felt even worse than kind 231 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: of the initial position, because it signaled to me that 232 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 3: there's likely we're likely kind of losing them on not 233 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 3: just surgery, it's all this other stuff. And so two 234 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: hours later that statement was updated, revised, and it took 235 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: out saying they support mental health care and was changed 236 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 3: to say we support gender affirming care like a continuum 237 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: of care and used the words continuum of care instead 238 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: of mental health care. Now that doesn't that feels like 239 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 3: tripling down to me, because the problem was that it 240 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 3: was very overt what you left out, and you had 241 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: the opportunity to go back and fix it, and then 242 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: you continued. You just made new words that very overtly 243 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: leave out the kind of things that we would need 244 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: reassurance about. Right, And so that's kind of where things 245 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: were at at that point. 246 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, we're gonna let's let's leave it there for 247 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: a seconds. You turn to the people who are funding 248 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: us talking about this, which is the I was gonna say, 249 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: the noble product products and services. I cannot promise their 250 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: nobility at all, but the products and service system support 251 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: this podcast here they are. Yeah, and we are back. 252 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: And there's one other thing I want to mention before 253 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: we sort of get into where this went, which is 254 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: part of the fear that was going on, is that 255 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: at the same time as this is all happening, Labor 256 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: has taken power in the UK, and the Labor government 257 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: they're fucking okay, what what what can what? What can 258 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: I say about the about West streeting? That won't get 259 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: me impaled across They're militantly transphobic piece of shit. I 260 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: think it's like their health secretary now, yes, yeah, masters 261 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: over there, don't forget Yeah, yeah, they're ministers came out 262 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: and said we're going to ban all children from getting 263 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: puberty blockers. 264 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: Not just on the NHS but. 265 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: All private healthcare everyone. Yeah. And this is a this 266 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: is an absolutely sort of terrifying step. It is going 267 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: to get a lot of kids killed. Want to reiterate, Yeah, 268 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: already already has there's a whole scandal over there about 269 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: like about the number of. 270 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: Trus The Good Law Project has you know, done the 271 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: research into like NHS minutes and all this stuff, and 272 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: as thinks that there have been sixteen suicide since this. 273 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I I also want to there's like a 274 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: sort of debunking thing that's going on. That was from 275 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: data that like that that the party released. I was like, oh, 276 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: there weren't actually that many suicides. And the thing you 277 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: have to understand about those numbers is that those numbers 278 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: don't count people on waitlists, and the waitlists are not 279 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: the only place that people die, but they kill a 280 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: lot of people. So I want to sort of like, yeah, 281 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: we got to get that sort of context in which 282 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: is we're in this position. 283 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 3: Not justreting right the farmers and then there are a 284 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 3: whole lot have very vocally transphobic labor impis. 285 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that you know, that's there's a lot 286 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: of fear that the Democratic Party can sort of take 287 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 2: this even more extreme path than the sort of stuff 288 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: we've been saying. And you know, I'm going to include 289 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: the standard thing about puberty blockers, which is we give 290 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: these we give puberty blockers to like literal like five 291 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: year old CIS children. They're fine, it's complete, like they're 292 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: completely safe. There's no there's no downside. 293 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: Apparently blockers only have dangerous terrifying side effects used, and 294 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: they can tell when they're in a trans body and 295 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: it's the spot. Yeah, I only do the bad things. 296 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 3: We've created the trands specific bio weapon like you know, 297 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 3: so like that this all of this stuff is safe, 298 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: and it's not only safe, it saves lives, like the 299 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: difference between you know, like any transperson can tell you, 300 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: the difference between being on your hormones and being off 301 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 3: your hormones is night and day. It is the difference 302 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 3: between being alive and not being alive. Like it is 303 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: the difference between having sort of like a stable like 304 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 3: stable interiority and feeling like you don't exist every fucking day. 305 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: So we're not just talking about being on your right hormones, 306 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 3: but in this case, we're also talking about preventing being 307 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: on the wrong hormones right, which can be even more experciated. 308 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's terrible, like yeah, and so there's there's this 309 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: real fear that what we're seeing here is a pivot 310 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: to UK style stuff. And one of the things I 311 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: do in the UK that was specifically worrying about that 312 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: language about mental health care is one of the big 313 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: turf tactics is pushing this thing where we go, oh, well, 314 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: we're going to have this, like you know, we're going 315 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: to give you mental health care. We're going to like 316 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 2: help you figure out what your gender is. Is they 317 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: call it like exploratory care. This is conversion therapy. Yeah, 318 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: that's what they are talking about. And you know, seeing 319 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 2: the White House suddenly pivot to this language that is 320 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: like effectively identical to again the UK thing where they're 321 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: like we're going to give these conscivers therapy was terrifying. 322 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. And then so I think that the space between 323 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: that Friday with the New York Times article and then 324 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 3: the Tuesday with that clarification, I think the fact that 325 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 3: the orgs were so quiet and didn't offer any pushback 326 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: and didn't organize community to demand better to ban their 327 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 3: retract it like, I think that that's what gave them 328 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: the room to essentially double and triple down in that 329 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: statement on Tuesday. And so that coincided, unfortunately with a 330 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 3: couple other anti transdevelopments and the Democratic Party in a 331 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 3: way that I find very worrying, especially when taken kind 332 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: of as a constellation. Right, So that same week, the 333 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 3: Senate Armed Services Committee, So the NDAA is a large 334 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: military funding bill. It's the National Events Authorization Act, and 335 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 3: the House has been passing versions with lots of transphobic 336 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: riders in them, and then for the last couple of 337 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: years the Senate has been taking those out and passing 338 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: a clean version, and then ultimately it's a clean version 339 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 3: of that gets enactive. Last year, I was very, very 340 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 3: worried that we would lose on that and that it 341 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 3: would go through with the writers and the implications here. 342 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 3: So the DoD Department of Defense funds healthcare for the 343 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: VA and trycare. I think there's one other smaller program 344 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: kind of similar that's a different name and effort, but 345 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 3: largely VA and tricare so for active service members and 346 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: their families and veterans, which is I think I last 347 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 3: read like ten million people or something. And so if 348 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: they cut off public funding for trans healthcare through those programs, 349 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 3: a whole lot of people are going to lose it, 350 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: and we're going to very quickly wind up in a 351 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 3: situation like abortion is with the High Amendment, where no 352 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 3: public money can be used on our healthcare. And so 353 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: that week, at the same time, the Senate Armed Services 354 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 3: Committee had their version of the NDAA and commit Joe 355 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 3: Manchin voted with Republicans to attach to these transphobic writers 356 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: to it. And then it was everyone in the committee 357 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 3: except for three people. I believe it was Warren, one 358 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 3: other Democrat, and then I think possibly one Republican who 359 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: voted against it. But all the other Democrats on the 360 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 3: committee voted to pass it out of committee with those 361 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 3: transphobic riders, which is terrifying. Yeah, and Senator Kelly has 362 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 3: introduced a floor amendment to take those out, but whether 363 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: his mimite even makes it to the floor, I don't know. 364 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 3: And what the vote looks like that like on that, 365 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 3: I don't know. So I'm really worried that the NBA 366 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: will pass with these riders in it, and then subsequent 367 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: spending bills for other departments will as well. And then 368 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 3: simultaneously there's the third thing. Over Biden's term, there have 369 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 3: been over he's had over two hundred of his judicial 370 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: nominees that he's offered up and over his whole term, 371 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 3: not a single time has a Democrat opposed one of 372 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 3: his judicial nominees. But that week us Off actually opposed 373 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: one of his judicial nominees over the fact that she 374 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 3: had sent a trans woman to women's prison, so specifically 375 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: a transphobic reason for objecting, and so she didn't be 376 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: denominated and that's the first time that has happened over 377 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: Biden's term from what I read, And so there are 378 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: just lots of these signals that kind of back me 379 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 3: up in my feeling that the support that you know, 380 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 3: everyone has been pretending that the Democratic Party has for 381 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 3: trans people. I mean, I read their eggs, so I 382 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 3: know better, but it is not. It is an illusion, right, 383 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 3: and when it shatters, it's going to come apart really fast, 384 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: and people are going to be really surprised by it 385 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: because our organizations have not been kind of educating people 386 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: along the way. 387 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to we're going to come back and 388 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 2: talk more about this, and we're also going to come 389 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: back very specifically to the transom in women's prisons thing, 390 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 2: because I really truly do not think since people understand 391 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: how fucking bad that is. Yeah, we're gonna come back 392 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: to that after these ads. 393 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're back. 394 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I wanted to specifically highlight the prisons thing 395 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: in the context of you know, okay, so there's a 396 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 2: chance by the time this comes out that bite is. 397 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 3: No longer than on me your lips to God's tears. 398 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. The issue with this is that the strongest possibility 399 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: for replacing Cana is Kamala Harris. And you know, I'm 400 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 2: gonna ask you to explain Kamala Harris's record on trans 401 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: women in fucking prisons because it is appalling. 402 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 3: Because I can never escape these ship libs. I actually 403 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 3: worked at TLC while we were suing the slain Chelsea, Yeah, 404 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 3: transgender lossoner Tilse. We had to sue the State of 405 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 3: California for incarcerated trans people to be able to access 406 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: healthcare that they deserved, and Kamala Harris, as the age 407 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 3: of the State of California, defended the state's position that 408 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: they did not they did have a right to health care. 409 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: We won, she lost. But so she is not someone 410 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: that I can ever trust with trans lives, right, especially 411 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 3: because there have been other issues, I think marijuana most recently, 412 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 3: where she has tried to kind of trumpet that she 413 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 3: has used her discretion and not prosecuted certain things or whatever, right, 414 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 3: And that doesn't help me at all, right, because it 415 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: shows you know you have prosecutor you know you have 416 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: discretion in what cases you take and what you defend 417 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: and all this stuff, and you used it to prevent 418 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 3: trans people from getting healthcare. 419 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to allo specifically talk about the 420 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: part about this judge sending a transfer into a women's prison, 421 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: which is the thing that you should do, because this 422 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: is the kind of thing that has to be opposed 423 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: at all costs, because you know, prison is violent enough 424 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: for everyone, it is even worse for us. And the 425 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: fact that Democrats are like, you know, it looks like 426 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: we're seeing the sort of tide break on this and 427 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: especially specifically on this issue, where the consequences are so 428 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: dire it is extremely bad. 429 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I kind of had the suspicion that 430 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 3: there was a deal struck on the NDAA that Democrats 431 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 3: and this is solely me speculating, right, I have no 432 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 3: insider information about this, speculating that the Democrats kind of 433 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: accepted a deal on the NDA that there would be 434 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 3: some level of anti trans writers that they would accept 435 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 3: and into the enacted law, and that after making that deal, 436 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 3: the White House felt they could kind of move to 437 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 3: the right publicly on trans people, because you know, it 438 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: would be in the news from the NBA passing that 439 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 3: they could start kind of preparing people for that by 440 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 3: kind of making a public and kind of moving to 441 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 3: the right word there, right, So that's kind of what 442 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: I suspect maybe happened. I don't know, but it is. 443 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 3: It doesn't vode well for us, especially because you know, 444 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: so the the White House's position has already been cited 445 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: in at least one judicial opinion yep, and then was 446 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 3: also recently cited yes the day before yesterday or not now, yeah, Friday, yeah, 447 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 3: I think it was Friday in New Hampshire as justification 448 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: from Governor Sunu for signing their surgery VAM there. And 449 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: so these things have immediate consequences even before they show 450 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 3: up in executive branch policy. And this is why I 451 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: have been very convinced ever since kind of I read 452 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: the policy tea leaves and the executive orders and rags 453 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 3: and kind of identified that we were dealing with the 454 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 3: functioning a hostile executive branch. I've been trying. I tried 455 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 3: as hard as I could to get movement leadership to 456 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 3: switch from a kiss ass framework to a take names framework, right, yeah, 457 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: but they just they haven't done it. So the community 458 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 3: just doesn't. It's going to feel like whiplash, I think 459 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 3: for a lot of folks who aren't kind of deep 460 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 3: into this stuff. And then don't follow me on Twitter 461 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 3: to see me yelling about five hundred page regulations. But 462 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 3: it makes me worried that, you know, the leadership is 463 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 3: not advocating for trans people appropriately, and I think that 464 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: if this is demonstrating that they're not, they don't have 465 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: leverage or they're not willing to bring a leverage to 466 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 3: bear on whoever. The not many is when it's not Biden, right, Like, 467 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: they're not setting the movement up to have strong footing 468 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 3: to hold people accountable to trans equality kind of on 469 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 3: the campaign trail, and that's really scary looking at labor, 470 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: especially as kind of a blueprint. 471 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna be talking of God, Yeah, we're gonna 472 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: be talking about Sean o'brien'soking dog shit weird fascist turn 473 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: later with some teamsters. Well hopefully, well we'll see, well, 474 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 2: see'll see appens this episode. But yeah, yeah, it's very bad. 475 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: But also it's not We're not in a position yet 476 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: where this is inevitable, right right, Like it doesn't have 477 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: to happen, And the way that it gets this gets 478 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: stopped from happening is by us organizing and us fighting 479 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: and us putting pressure on these people to fucking do 480 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 2: this because you know and like this, this is this, 481 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: this has always been the thing. Like these people unfortunately 482 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: they do need us, right, they hate it, but you 483 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: know these like the Democratic Party needs us. 484 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. We got to see last month during Pride month, 485 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 3: they all show up at Pride parades. Yes, yeah, right, 486 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 3: it's like y'all actually don't belong here? Why why are 487 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 3: you fuck off? Yeah? 488 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: And it's like you know, they like they they they 489 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: they have been successfully sort of like feasting off of 490 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 2: the movement that we build for decades now. And it 491 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: is you know, if they're going to fucking if they're 492 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: going to fucking eat our corpses, it is, it is, 493 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: it is. It is absolutely time for them to fucking 494 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: try to defend us. And the only way that's going 495 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 2: to happen is if we we actually start mobilizing it, 496 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: we start putting pressure on these people to like not 497 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: fucking back down and write us off for dead. 498 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 3: But the way that the national organizations have been moving, right, 499 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: like the positive press and the praise that they've given 500 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 3: deepen Biden's shittiest actions and inactions on trans people actively 501 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 3: stimy's community organizing. Right, Yeah, because if I have to 502 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 3: explain a five hundred page regulation to show people that 503 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: Biden's transphobic that and they're just like no, but look, 504 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 3: this HRC statement says it's actually great policy. It's a 505 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: big barrier to overcome or community organizing there, right. 506 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, and you know, the the other sort of 507 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: issue here, right, is that the Republican Party is I mean, 508 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: I don't know if hurling towards is even the right word, 509 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 2: but they are. They are very, very very close to 510 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: what is effectively like banning transfer from public life and 511 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: their eventual goal of wiping us out right. 512 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 513 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 2: And you know, if there's no actual force to oppose that, 514 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: because all of these sort of national organizations are busy 515 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: sort of kissing ass instead of actually fighting, we are 516 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: in deep trouble. 517 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think and I think we are. I 518 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: think we are in deep trouble. But like you said, 519 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 3: it is not a done deal yet, right. I was 520 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: actually heartened. I was very I was terrified. So Zoe 521 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 3: Zoe's ephyort the trans representative state representative from Montana. After 522 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: the draft bad Title nine regulation came out, she organized 523 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 3: an open letter from fourteen out of sixteen out trans 524 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 3: and non binary state electeds against it. They released it 525 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 3: a couple of days after all of the orgs put 526 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 3: out their praise were they're praising statements, and they looked 527 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: really dumb. So she actually organized another open letter of 528 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 3: out trans and non binary state legislators against this. It 529 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: wasn't the you know, the full compliment because it was 530 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 3: over a weekend, really scrambly, but just like the title 531 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: nine one, Dana Carome and Sarah McBride did not sign it. 532 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: Why can you explain who that is, by the way, 533 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: for the audience. 534 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, So Dana Carome is a trans state representative from Virginia, 535 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: and then Sarah McBride is an out trans legislator from 536 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 3: Biden's home state of Delaware. And the McBride's are actually 537 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 3: family friends with the Bidens, and Joe Biden actually wrote 538 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: the forward to Sarah McBride's memoirs, autobiography whatever you call it, right, 539 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 3: But she's also a Zionist and she is a kind 540 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: of centrist, center right Democrat who you know, as I've 541 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 3: talked to people, my understanding is that she didn't sign 542 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 3: on to the title nine letter because she has you know, 543 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 3: rising star and the Democratic Party aspirations. She's probably going 544 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: to be the first trans congress person soon. I hate it, 545 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 3: And so I was extremely concerned that Sarah McBride, who 546 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 3: you know, because of those ties and because she's probably 547 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: going to be in Congress soon, is the most kind 548 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: of politically powerful trans person in the country. I was 549 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 3: extremely worried that she was going to join the mind 550 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 3: administration on this. So I agro posted the ship posts 551 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: that are for several days and thankfully she she did 552 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: condemn it and kind. 553 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: Of bullying work. Yeah, right, go at. 554 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: I was seriously concerned about that because you know, just 555 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 3: these the forces, this anti transit humanization campaign is so 556 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 3: powerful and so strong at this point that a lot 557 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: of people are making the calculation that if they want 558 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 3: to advance in politics, they got a multuous you know. 559 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 3: And I don't think highly I and don't think highly 560 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 3: enough of Sarah to have been confident that she wouldn't 561 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 3: do that. 562 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's you know, that's also one 563 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: of the really hard parts about this is, like you, 564 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, as much as there is sort of 565 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 2: intercommunity solidarity among trans people, you can't even trust your 566 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: own people when they take power right right, And you know, 567 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 2: this isn't to say, like this is one of the 568 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: rare times where like I think there are like there's 569 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: some legislators who do good stuff, like Zoey's effort has 570 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 2: been doing great, But you have to keep the pressure 571 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 2: on everyone, no matter who they are about it, where 572 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: they come from, you have to you have to keep 573 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: pressuring them, because. 574 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 3: I mean, that's my experience as now does. 575 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't, we're going to get We're going 576 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: to get left behind and left to die. 577 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so like one of the one of the 578 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 3: ways that this has been so dismaying for me, right, 579 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 3: is that trans people don't have any or any national 580 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 3: organization that advocates for them full throatedly, principally in a 581 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: trans maximalist kind of unapologetic way. Right. It's always all 582 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 3: of the orgs, all the LGBTQ orgs and the Transpacific orgs, 583 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 3: which is kind of what I'm getting to all kind 584 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 3: of take this very centrist tech or they have over 585 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 3: the last several years with Biden. They were all kind 586 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,479 Speaker 3: of a lot happier to be radical when Trump was president, 587 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 3: but no longer. Right, Yeah, And my my main issue 588 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 3: is even if you are you know, a rich DC 589 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 3: strategist who leads who runs these movement orgs like you 590 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 3: know they are, And you believe, even you believe that 591 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 3: the balance between kind of strident, principled advocacy and lobbying, 592 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 3: blazer tightened up moderated advocacy is way further in the 593 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 3: moderated direction than I do. Even if you believe that, 594 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 3: you still understand the need for some group with a 595 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 3: voice to articulate the trans maximalist position, to articulate the 596 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: standards by which you know politicians are going to be 597 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 3: measured if they're going to be considered pro trans. And 598 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 3: what we have not seen is the trans specific organization, 599 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 3: so specifically National Center for transgener Quality and CT and 600 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 3: Transferred Legal Education Defense Fund till Death. They recently merged 601 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 3: into Advocates for Equality, which is abbreviated a for te 602 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 3: don't ask, don't ask, But like, why let the LGBT, 603 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,919 Speaker 3: let HRC do the centrist bullshit, let them put out 604 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 3: milk toast statements, let them praise politicians who don't fully 605 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 3: support us. Right, but we need at least one organization 606 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 3: representing trans people to lay out the full case to 607 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 3: present kind of our actual policy needs. And be the 608 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 3: rubric by which everyone else can be measured. And also 609 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 3: just for community education, so we know, so the community 610 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 3: knows without you know, people like organizers, people like me 611 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 3: trying to overcome these huge, these huge walls to get 612 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 3: people to understand what's going on, can see what's being 613 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 3: done to us, know what we deserve in terms of policy, 614 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 3: and then measure what is actually being done for us 615 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 3: against that bar. 616 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think one of the other frustrating aspects 617 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: of this, this is something that you talk about a lot, 618 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 2: is that the people who do the work in these organizations, right, 619 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 2: you're sort of like, you know, your sort of staffers 620 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: or researchers to people on the on the sort of 621 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: bottom of the pyramid you make all this stuff function. 622 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 2: They don't get a say in how these you know, 623 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 2: and how how these fucking orgers put these things out. 624 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 3: No, most of them are radical anarchists and communists like 625 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 3: I am, right, They they really really want to do 626 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 3: what we need to be done, and it's just you know, 627 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 3: comes down from on high that that's not what they're doing. 628 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 3: And I know that I am not the only trans 629 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 3: national ORG staffer who has been silenced by the White 630 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 3: House or the White House reached out directly to my bosses. 631 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 3: I think I mentioned it the last time I was 632 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 3: on Yeah. But I know that's happened to my colleagues, 633 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 3: friends at other organizations. And I know that I have 634 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 3: a lot of privileges that that a lot of people don't, 635 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 3: So I can kind of get fired or I could 636 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 3: I not maybe couldn't afford it anymore, get fired for 637 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 3: my principles. And I don't, you know, I don't, I 638 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 3: don't judge, you know, my my comrades and colleagues horstal 639 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: kind of doing the best they can. But I'm really 640 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 3: really scared with with leadership and the way that they 641 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 3: have not recognized kind of the situation they've gotten us into. 642 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the thing I want to close 643 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 2: on is what do you think are effective things that 644 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 2: people can do sort of now right? And people who 645 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 2: aren't in the top of these power structures. Although if 646 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: you're for some reason you're the head of one of 647 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: these orgs and you're listening to this, what the fuck 648 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 2: are you doing? Please do better? But yeah, what what? What? 649 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 3: What? 650 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 2: What kinds of things can people do on top of 651 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: sort of just like community education and yeah. 652 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean, I I think the real thing 653 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 3: that I mean I've encourage you to do this on 654 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 3: Twitter as well, is if you see one of these 655 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 3: national organizations fall short of one hundred percent and advocating 656 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 3: for a transit, if you see them equivocate about you know, 657 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 3: maybe banning surgery isn't that bad because it's not super common, 658 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: or maybe it's okay not to demand that Biden, you know, 659 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: explicitly say that he supports you know, these these parts 660 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 3: of these components of our healthcare before calling him one 661 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: hundred percent pro trans on healthcare. You know that kind 662 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 3: of stuff. If you see them fall short of that, 663 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 3: you know, don't trust them anymore, don't donate to them anymore. 664 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 3: Take that money, attention, time, and energy, and turn it 665 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 3: to mutual aid efforts, to local organizing efforts to supporting 666 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 3: trans people in Red states. Campaign for Southerner Quality just 667 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 3: expanded their their practical support program to be not just 668 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 3: a subset of Red states that they will help transuth 669 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 3: in families in, but all Red states that are that 670 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 3: are facing healthcare bands and similar anti trans measures. Support 671 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 3: that fund right, go look at and if you don't 672 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 3: know of a of a local trans group or a 673 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 3: state trans group near you doing good work. You can 674 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 3: go to TRANSSICE funding projects kind of grantee map. They're 675 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 3: really low barrier only grant to translate groups and you 676 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 3: can see what those groups are doing and you can 677 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 3: hook up with them or donate to them. But I 678 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 3: think that the biggest thing is not I mean, we 679 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 3: Lord knows we need money, we're all poor as shit, yeah, 680 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 3: but mainly but mostly honestly, what I think we need 681 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 3: is we need vocal, visible support. We need assist people 682 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: not to remain silent or passive when they hear or 683 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 3: see transphobia, or when they hear or see someone equivocating 684 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 3: on well maybe you know, maybe kids aren't old enough 685 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 3: to know their trands. Like if you're that's the sounds 686 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 3: in saying actual trans people, right, but you know it 687 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 3: can take this people, right. And so if you are 688 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 3: a SIS ally, being an ally is an action, right, 689 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 3: and we need that now more than ever as the 690 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 3: stakes of the risks of being attached to us supporting 691 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 3: us grow higher, right, Like we need principal allies to 692 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 3: stand with us. And so if you can do that 693 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 3: in your daily life, you can be a trans advocate 694 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 3: in your kind of routine. We desperately need that. 695 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's a good I know that 696 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 2: that that's a good sort of rallying cry. It's like 697 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 2: all you know, and this has always substantively been one 698 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 2: of the big issues with being trans is that we 699 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: are one percent of the population right now. Right That's 700 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 2: probably gonna rise in future, but right now are sort 701 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 2: of distributed, pauled like our distributed impacts on politics. You know, 702 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 2: we have an outsized impact of politics, but for one 703 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: percent of the population, we can't fight ninety nine per population, right, 704 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 2: So we need we need your help, and we need 705 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 2: you know, we need not just sort of milk toast 706 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: lip service. We need to actually fight. 707 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. We need people in your life to know you 708 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 3: know that you are fully pro trans and that means 709 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 3: that you kind of learned maybe how to talk about 710 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 3: trans healthcare to educate other folks who won't know as much, 711 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 3: or you are able to develop and kind of share 712 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 3: a personal story about how you learned about trans people 713 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 3: and uh and became you know, an outlying right. So 714 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 3: learning how to do that work I think is super important. 715 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 2: So this is this spinna can happen here Krinn, Thank 716 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: you so much for coming on the show. 717 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. Like I said 718 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 3: that timing of the last show, Yeah, very smart. 719 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we I have I have a weird knack for 720 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 2: tiding this stuff correctly for mostly for worse. But you know, Yeah, 721 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,479 Speaker 2: this spindic can happen here. You can find us in 722 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 2: the places and yeah, go support the trans people in 723 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 2: your life because the Lord knows they need it. 724 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can follow me. Yeah, so I'm crankering, 725 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 3: I share, they pronounce, and I'm at gay Narcan on Twitter. 726 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 3: You can find me there for hot trans policy takes 727 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 3: that are not moderated by centrist calm staff. 728 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't find me on Twitter, absolutely not. 729 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 730 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 731 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 732 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 733 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 734 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,280 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.