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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind Listener Mail.

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Speaker 2: My name is Robert.

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Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and hey folks. As

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Speaker 3: you probably heard on the past few weeks on the show,

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Speaker 3: we are trying something a little bit different with our

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Speaker 3: listener mail offerings. For the past few years, we've been

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Speaker 3: doing listener mail every week on Mondays. Right now we're

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Speaker 3: trying out a schedule where we wait a few weeks

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Speaker 3: and let the mail bag accumulate a bit in between

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Speaker 3: listener mail episodes, which we'll run in a Tuesday or

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Speaker 3: Thursday episode slot instead of Mondays. This is how we

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Speaker 3: used to do listener mail back in the day before

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Speaker 3: we went to daily publication on Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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Speaker 3: And for the time being, while we're trying this out,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be running Weird House Cinema Rewinds on Mondays.

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Speaker 3: But hey, I think one thing we see sort of

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Speaker 3: half promised at some point was that our beloved mail

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Speaker 3: bot Carne would he would have to return again if

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Speaker 3: we were going back to the old school way of

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Speaker 3: doing listener mail. We never intended to neglect Carne. He

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Speaker 3: just sort of, I don't know. Over time, in the

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Speaker 3: busyness and hectic schedule of every week, we sort of

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Speaker 3: forgot about him, and he became less of a thing

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Speaker 3: and more of an idea. And so I think it

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Speaker 3: is only fitting that upon returning Listener Mail to a

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Speaker 3: Tuesday Thursday slot, that Carne the mail bot should become

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Speaker 3: incarnate once again. So arise, Carne, Arise from your crypt

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Speaker 3: of incorporeality and become a being. Become flesh, become circuits.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful. We have unpuffed the magic dragoned him. Now

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Speaker 2: he is here once more to guide us through Listener Mail.

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Speaker 3: Glistening look at that. Oh, another thing to address here

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Speaker 3: at the top of this listener Mail episode. We have

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Speaker 3: gotten a number of emails asking us about the reason

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Speaker 3: for the change, like, oh, do you not have enough

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Speaker 3: messages to read? Etc. So I'm going to address all

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Speaker 3: of those questions right here at the top. No, we

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Speaker 3: usually do have more email than we can get to

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Speaker 3: in a week, though it varies from week to week,

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Speaker 3: so like every now and then we have a week

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Speaker 3: where we come up a bit short, which makes things

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Speaker 3: a little bit difficult. I would say The main reason

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Speaker 3: is we're just trying to have a bit more time

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Speaker 3: to devote to our core offerings. Our weekly production schedule

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Speaker 3: has been a lot to handle, and we just wanted

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Speaker 3: to see if backing off on weekly mail episodes would

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Speaker 3: give us a bit more breathing room and allow us

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Speaker 3: to focus more time on core episodes.

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Speaker 2: That's all, yeah, because I don't know if we drive

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Speaker 2: this home a lot or enough. But when it comes

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Speaker 2: to the actual just production of the show, it's a

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Speaker 2: three person team. It's Joe, it's me, it's jj We're

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Speaker 2: the only three people working on the production of the show.

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Speaker 2: That's not counting anybody that's involved in ads and you know,

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Speaker 2: the larger corporate structures around us. But in terms of

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Speaker 2: making stuff to blow your mind, it's just the.

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Speaker 3: Three of us. Yeah, that's right. I mean sometimes we

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Speaker 3: get messages from people who seem to assume we've got

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Speaker 3: some kind of like command center worrying in the background,

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Speaker 3: where we have a large like army of workers who

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Speaker 3: are going out and selecting topics and doing research and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So nope, it's it's just the three of us on

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Speaker 3: the content side.

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Speaker 2: And now Carne. If we consider Carne a person, then

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Speaker 2: I guess that's right. I'd say it's four. But he's

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Speaker 2: very specialized. He does only one thing, and that is

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Speaker 2: fetched listener mail for us, but.

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Speaker 3: He does it so well, and so Carney, we're glad

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Speaker 3: to have you back in the flesh. Oh and of course,

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Speaker 3: if you out there listening would like to get in

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Speaker 3: touch with us, you can always do so by writing

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Speaker 3: our email address, which is contact at stuff to Blow

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Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. Of course, if you have thoughts

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Speaker 3: about listener mail itself, and you know how you what

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Speaker 3: your ideal schedule would be, you know, if you like

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Speaker 3: it the old way, you like it the new way, whatever,

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Speaker 3: you can write to us at contact at stuff to

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Speaker 3: blow Yourmind dot com. But you can also write with

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Speaker 3: any kind of message about the show. If you have

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Speaker 3: feedback to a recent episode, if you have a correction,

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Speaker 3: if you have just something interesting to add to a

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Speaker 3: topic we've talked about. All of that's fair game. Contact

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Speaker 3: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to join the Discord server, that's

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Speaker 2: also that's also how you can you can join it.

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Speaker 2: Just email us and ask for the link and we'll

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Speaker 2: send it to you.

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Speaker 3: All right, I thought maybe we should kick things off

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Speaker 3: today with a message that's less about an episode and

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Speaker 3: more on a personal note, Rob, you recently took a

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Speaker 3: family vacation to Japan, and our frequent correspondent Renata got

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Speaker 3: in touch about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is a fun one, r'naa Wrights, and

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Speaker 2: it says, Hi, Robin Joe, what a coincidence. Ben and

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Speaker 2: I are just returning from Japan as well. Not sure

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Speaker 2: if our trip overlap with yours. Rob. We got there

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Speaker 2: on June eighteenth, and we are returning today.

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Speaker 3: Not sure what day this email came in. I did

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Speaker 3: not make a note of that, but Renata does attach

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Speaker 3: a picture that looks like it was taken in the airport.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to that in a minute.

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Speaker 2: Renata continues, I'm curious if you made it to the

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Speaker 2: Miyoshi manonok Yokai Museum. We visited it and it was delightful.

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Speaker 2: The whole town of Meyoshi had a wistful, quiet, small

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Speaker 2: town vibe. At the end of the museum, you can

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Speaker 2: color yokai drawing, then scan it, and your yokai joins

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Speaker 2: with all the others on a display on the wall,

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Speaker 2: and you can touch the yokai and make them dance.

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Speaker 2: My drawing was a kappa. My favorite yokai, however, is

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Speaker 2: Kasa Obaki, the umbrella Yokai. I just think he's the

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Speaker 2: goofiest and Japan is so full of umbrellas that it's

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Speaker 2: fun to imagine all the umbrellas turning into yokai at

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Speaker 2: night and having a party. We bought a huge yokai

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Speaker 2: book among numerous other souvenirs at the museum, currently still

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Speaker 2: in the plastic, and I guess this is a picture

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Speaker 2: they included of the beautiful cover to this book.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what creature this is, but it looks

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Speaker 3: like an elephant made out of dirty laundry with these huge, bloodshot,

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Speaker 3: bulbous eyes.

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Speaker 2: Well, it might be the Baku. Remember we talked about

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Speaker 2: the paku a little bit. This is more purely pachadermical,

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Speaker 2: I guess than some of the depictions I've seen of

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Speaker 2: the baku. But uh that's my my my initial guess. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: it could be something else.

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Speaker 3: I can't read the text on the cover, but the

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Speaker 3: illustration absolutely makes me want to open this book and

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Speaker 3: see what see what's inside?

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Speaker 2: And now it continues, Can we expect you know some

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Speaker 2: Yokai related episodes coming up. I haven't listened to your

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Speaker 2: latest Japan episode yet, so maybe you already got into

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Speaker 2: it all the best for not well, Yeah, I have

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Speaker 2: to say that that museum sounds awesome. My family and

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Speaker 2: I we packed as much into our trip as possible,

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Speaker 2: but sadly we didn't make it to Hiroshima, and we

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Speaker 2: we looked into another Yokai museum that proved to be

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Speaker 2: just too far out of the way at least this

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Speaker 2: trip it was even like even further south. But I

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Speaker 2: hope to return to Japan in the future and check

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Speaker 2: out more of the southern sides for sure, maybe some

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Speaker 2: of the northern sides as well, I don't know, And

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Speaker 2: of course just more Tokyo, because there's so much of

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Speaker 2: it one cannot cannot get quite enough of it now.

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Speaker 2: As for more Yokai episodes, I think one way or another.

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Speaker 2: Certainly we've discussed doing one of the many Yokai movies

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Speaker 2: for Weird House, and I can easily see there being

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Speaker 2: more Yokai Monster Fact episodes and core episodes are even

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Speaker 2: a major possibility. They're also just going to probably continue

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Speaker 2: to sort of pop up in unexpected ways. Just because

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Speaker 2: ultimately the Japanese Yokai, they cover a lot of ground

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Speaker 2: that they you know, they touch on occasionally things that

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Speaker 2: we could discuss from a scientific perspective. They certainly touch

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Speaker 2: on things we can we can discuss from historical and

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Speaker 2: cultural perspective. So I'm sure the okai will be back.

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Speaker 2: Oh and then we're not responded to a reply that

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Speaker 2: that I sent sent their way with My favorite Yokai

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Speaker 2: movie for what it's worth is Yokai Monsters one hundred Monsters.

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Speaker 2: But probably because Kasa Obaki is a central.

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Speaker 3: Character, that's the umbrella Yokai.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one that is on our list of

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Speaker 2: potential episodes. We actually considered doing it for our one

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Speaker 2: hundredth episode, but we did. What do we do instead?

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Speaker 3: I can't? I mean of Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 2: Of Weird House Cinema, Yes, yeah, yeah, one hundredth episode

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Speaker 2: of Subsible of Your Mind that ships long, long sale.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure when that would have been, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: on the on the number of films that we've covered

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Speaker 2: on Weird House. Let's see what are we up to now?

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Speaker 2: I can easily check by going to letterbox dot com

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Speaker 2: and going to our profile weird House. I can see

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Speaker 2: how many films we've covered, and the count is up too,

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Speaker 2: one sixty nine. It's going to be one seventy tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Entry number one hundred was Jason X.

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Speaker 3: That's perfect. Yes, well, maybe we'll do Yochai Monsters one

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Speaker 3: hundred monsters for our thousandth episode.

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Speaker 2: Oh there you go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. Should we do some responses to our series

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Speaker 3: on the Ninja? Yes, this one is from Mike. Of course.

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Speaker 3: We talked about many things in this series, about history,

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Speaker 3: about alleged technology and gadgets, a bit of ninja physics

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Speaker 3: and science, but also just about the pop culture ninja,

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Speaker 3: the international ninja, and the ninja craze of the eighties

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Speaker 3: and nineties. So Mike writes in on that subject and says,

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Speaker 3: Robin Joe, I really enjoyed the first part on the

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Speaker 3: Ninja when you were talking about some of the odd

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Speaker 3: American family friendly ninja movies of the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 3: like Three Ninjas. I was reminded of a movie I

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Speaker 3: hadn't thought about in years, Surf Ninjas. This was an

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Speaker 3: odd little snapshot of society at the time. Nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 3: you had a thirty year old Rob Schneider playing a teenager,

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Speaker 3: Leslie Nil Wilson as a cyborg warlord who couldn't get wet.

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Speaker 3: I assume that would negatively affect his cyborginess, a game

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Speaker 3: gear with the power to show the future, and Tone

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Speaker 3: Loake as a wise cracking detective. I was thirteen at

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Speaker 3: the time and truly loved this movie. Can't imagine it

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Speaker 3: holds up all that well thirty years later. Love the show.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for resurfacing this movie in my memory, Mike. I

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Speaker 3: don't think I ever saw this one, but it's the

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Speaker 3: kind of movie I saw lots of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't see this one either, and I have

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Speaker 2: to admit I think I get it kind of mixed

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Speaker 2: up in my head with the nineteen eighty seven film

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Speaker 2: Surf Nazis Must Die. It's like Surf Nazis Surf Ninja's.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen neither film, so they neatly combine into

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Speaker 2: one unseen film for me, though, imagine they're rather different

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Speaker 2: because Surf Nazis Must Die as a trauma.

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Speaker 3: Picture, probably not as family friendly. Yeah, now, just looking

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Speaker 3: at the plot summary, one thing that stands out to

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Speaker 3: me is that it appears that the game that can

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Speaker 3: predict the future or control some kind of has some

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Speaker 3: divination power. Is like an actual branded game gear. It's

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Speaker 3: not a case where you have some spray painted piece

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Speaker 3: of technology masquerading as something else. You know, like in

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Speaker 3: all these scenes where there's a there's like a robot

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Speaker 3: that's actually just like a component from a Beta max

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Speaker 3: player or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Or the power glove and into no power glove as

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Speaker 2: part of a cyborg's interface system.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, No, this seems more like it's that movie

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Speaker 3: where the power glove is a power glove and it

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Speaker 3: has powers. This this looks like it's a game gear

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Speaker 3: that is a game gear and can control time.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so this movie was game gear's big moment, right

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Speaker 2: It was really sink or swim for them?

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Speaker 3: Funny you should say that because what's right here on

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Speaker 3: the poster it looks like a cyborged up Leslie Nielsen

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Speaker 3: sinking into the waves failing to swim anyway, Thank you, Mike.

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Speaker 2: All right, now, this next one comes to us from Nathan,

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Speaker 2: and I believe this one came in after we recorded

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Speaker 2: and published part one, but before we published subsequent episodes

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Speaker 2: that got into more detailed discussions of Ninja swords and

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Speaker 2: alleged ninja swords.

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Speaker 3: Right, I think there was a question of talking about

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Speaker 3: movies in which you see a ninja carrying a katana

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Speaker 3: or something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, anyway, Nathan writes hello again the late eighties, pre

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Speaker 2: teen pedant in me is compelled to point out that

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Speaker 2: samurai carried katana with a curve blade and round handguard,

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Speaker 2: while ninja wielded ninjado with a shorter, straight blade and

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Speaker 2: square handguard. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was perhaps the most

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Speaker 2: egregious example of confusing the two, as Leonardo's signature weapons

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Speaker 2: were always called katanas, despite at least in the original

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Speaker 2: black and white mirage comics, being depicted as the more

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Speaker 2: angular ninjada. However, as I only learned relatively recently, and

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Speaker 2: this is where we're getting into something that we would

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Speaker 2: talk about on the show and the subsequent episodes, much

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Speaker 2: like the mythical modern ninja, ninjado seems to be a

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Speaker 2: twentieth century invention. The wiki best sums up the controversy here.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I think pluralizing any of the above

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Speaker 2: words with an S is totally fine, as they've been

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Speaker 2: anglicized and as such only a dorc would pronounce ninja

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Speaker 2: as ninja, though for the record, I only ever knew

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Speaker 2: one kid like that. I enjoyed the short Netflix series

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Speaker 2: from a few years ago called Age of Samurai, but

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Speaker 2: even more enjoyed commentary about the finished product from several

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Speaker 2: featured consultants found in two parts here, and they included

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Speaker 2: a couple of episodes, and they had I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 2: your guy Turnbull is among them.

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Speaker 3: Turnbull is one of the authors we cited in the

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Speaker 3: Ninja series, having written a serious historical investigation of the

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Speaker 3: ninja in the historical basis of the and the development

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Speaker 3: in the mythology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's also highly cited in other ninja books,

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Speaker 2: like he was cited in the book that I was

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Speaker 2: referencing a lot for those episodes. Anyway, they continue great

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Speaker 2: topic and great coverage. As always, gentlemen, I think the

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Speaker 2: only film franchise worth adding to those mentioned would be

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Speaker 2: American Ninja.

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Speaker 3: I know nothing about that.

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Speaker 2: I had to look it up. This is one that

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen, but I'm familiar with the title.

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Speaker 2: It stars Michael Dudakov and co stars Steve James. This

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Speaker 2: was nineteen eighty five. I mainly remember the VHS box

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Speaker 2: art because it is quite stellar. A picture of you

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Speaker 2: will an American flag, a black clad ninja, and then

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Speaker 2: a camo clad GI locking samurai swords or Cadanna or

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Speaker 2: I don't know, the swords against the backdrop of the

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Speaker 2: American flag, and then there's your title, American Ninja.

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Speaker 3: It's a little known fact that Benjamin Franklin was a ninja. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen this one, but maybe it

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Speaker 2: bears a closer analysis. I'm not sure. Anyway, they continue.

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Speaker 2: The arcade version of Ninja Gaiden in my memory was awesome,

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Speaker 2: but I thought maybe I had imagined it until recently

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Speaker 2: finding a playthrough a series of games called tin Chu

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Speaker 2: Stealth Assassin is really cool, where players are rated higher

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Speaker 2: for undetected kills, similar to the more recent Shinobi games.

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Speaker 2: The AI has increased since PS one Days, to the

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Speaker 2: point that the player now finds it necessary to hide

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Speaker 2: victims bodies to avoid raising alarms. I do love a

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Speaker 2: good stealth game where you end up spending say like

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes of a time hiding in a locker to

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Speaker 2: keep a xeno more from eating you or random enemies

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Speaker 2: from finding you. I don't know you've done right. They

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Speaker 2: can be very engaging in it.

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Speaker 3: You're referencing Alien Isolation, which is one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: horror games of recent years. That one is really great.

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Speaker 3: But the one downside I really recall from the game

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Speaker 3: play is that you would spend so long not moving

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Speaker 3: because you'd get scared to move, and then you just

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Speaker 3: sit there and sit there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then you're like, Okay, it's gone, and

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Speaker 2: then I know it's coming back. All right, now another

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Speaker 2: five minutes in here should do it. But this is

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Speaker 2: where the skill of the Shinobi comes into play, right,

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Speaker 2: This is the patience and pressverance. That's right, yeah, all right.

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Speaker 2: Nathan continues on the White Ninja. My recollection is foggy

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Speaker 2: on this, but I think how did this get made?

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Speaker 2: Covered Ninja three? The domination and mock the notion of

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Speaker 2: bright colors on a stealth killer an audience member positive

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Speaker 2: a theory that makes as much sense as anything. A

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Speaker 2: true master could defy the shadows and where white in spite,

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Speaker 2: and this master could boast defeating enemies unscathed, as the

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Speaker 2: white would show bloody evidence of any wounds. Looking forward

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Speaker 2: to the next installment. Thanks again, you guys are the

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Speaker 2: best tape them.

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Speaker 3: Now, what a corniacopia of twentieth century international ninja lore.

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Speaker 2: I do like that that view of the white ninja.

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Speaker 2: You could I mean, you could basically have a naked

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Speaker 2: ninja like and he doesn't even need clothes, even if

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Speaker 2: he is just obviously naked.

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Speaker 3: Well, to come back to the Michael Dudikov theme, you

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Speaker 3: could have a ninja wearing an American flag as his costume.

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Speaker 2: There you go. This is from our discord, but it

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Speaker 2: has to do with ninja's and ninja turtles, so I

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Speaker 2: thought i'd read it really quickly. This one comes to

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Speaker 2: us from Fletch. Fletch writes, You Only Live Twice was

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Speaker 2: definitely my introduction to the concept of ninja. It was

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Speaker 2: the first Bond movie I ever saw. Must have been

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Speaker 2: sometime in the early eighties.

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Speaker 3: In the UK.

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Speaker 2: In the late eighties there was a moral panic around

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Speaker 2: ninja and martial arts weapons, shuriken, nunchucks, etc. That resulted

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Speaker 2: in teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being shown on UK TV

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Speaker 2: as teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.

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Speaker 3: Is this real?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm seeing some articles about a ninja moral panic in

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Speaker 3: the eighties nineties Britain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, you're I see references to this that European

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Speaker 2: regions in general sometimes called it teenage mutant hero turtles.

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Speaker 2: I was unaware, but so I was astounded to hear.

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Speaker 2: This is amazing, But it makes sense too, Right when

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Speaker 2: you think about the things ninjas do in films and

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Speaker 2: even in Dja teenagemutant Ninja Turtles, you could see where

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Speaker 2: a moral panic could easily rise up around something. You know,

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Speaker 2: moral panics also typically revolve around something that is either

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Speaker 2: actually imported from outside of a culture or or or

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Speaker 2: are interpreted as being such, So you could imagine that

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Speaker 2: factoring into it as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but what it's funny the way it would manifest as.

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Speaker 3: It's not like we can't show shows on TV that

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Speaker 3: have cartoon violence in them. It's that you can't call

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Speaker 3: it ninja. Like they can still have the weapons and

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Speaker 3: fight the bad guys, but you have to call them

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Speaker 3: hero not ninja.

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Speaker 2: That's true. It doesn't sound like they're actually changing content,

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Speaker 2: just this one word that would somehow make it less

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Speaker 2: dangerous for everyone.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this next message is in response to our series

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Speaker 3: on cicadas. This is from Jeremy, and it's not only

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Speaker 3: responding to our series on cicadas, but it's also replying

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Speaker 3: to a listener male episode that I did by myself

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Speaker 3: in June, and to refresh everyone in that episode, this

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Speaker 3: listener Jeremy wrote in to tell us about another species

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Speaker 3: of insect that rivals the cicada in the loudness contest.

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Speaker 3: This was an insect called the lesser water boatman or

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Speaker 3: Micronecta Schultze, which a study in Plus one from twenty

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Speaker 3: eleven found was the loudest animal on Earth relative to

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Speaker 3: its body size, so not strictly the loudest on Earth,

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Speaker 3: but compared to how small it is, it could make

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Speaker 3: the loudest sound. So this insect is about two millimeters long,

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Speaker 3: and the mail of the lesser water boatmen makes its

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Speaker 3: characteristic sound by rubbing one of its twin sexual organs

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Speaker 3: called parameters, against its abdomen. In some media, this was

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Speaker 3: described as the insect rubbing its penis against its abdomen

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Speaker 3: to make this incredibly loud noise. Whether that's a fair

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Speaker 3: characterization or not, I don't know. Insects have slightly different

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Speaker 3: kinds of sexual appendages, but it was a protruding sexual

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Speaker 3: appendage rubbing against its abdomen, and it gets incredibly loud.

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Speaker 3: This achieves roughly a seventy nine decibel sound pressure level,

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Speaker 3: with peaks of ninety nine to one hundred decibels when

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Speaker 3: measured at a distance of one meter. Also in that

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Speaker 3: email where Jeremy shared this information, he alluded to the

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Speaker 3: idea that there are no cicadas in Europe. That, of

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Speaker 3: course isn't true. There are plenty of cicadas in Europe.

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Speaker 3: And in his follow up here, Jeremy clarifies that he

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Speaker 3: meant to say there were no periodical cicadas in Europe,

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Speaker 3: only annual species, which as far as we know, is correct.

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Speaker 3: But after clearing up all this, Jeremy writes in about

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Speaker 3: something new, Jeremy says, on to my new point. In

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Speaker 3: your recent vault rerun of the Evolution of the Horse's

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Speaker 3: hoof Part two, you mentioned the medical diagnosis trope of

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Speaker 3: if you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. Please

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Speaker 3: see attached and comment on how this would be interpreted.

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Speaker 3: And so Jeremy attaches a photograph. What are we looking

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Speaker 3: at here? So it's a pasture surrounded by a fence

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Speaker 3: with horses grazing in the distance, and one of the

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Speaker 3: horses is wearing what looks like a zebra patterned overcoat.

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Speaker 3: It's like a blanket that extends from just behind the

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Speaker 3: horse's ears all the way to its tail, and it's

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Speaker 3: draped over the horse's back so that it falls over

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Speaker 3: the flanks and covers the belly and goes down to

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Speaker 3: the tops of the legs.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, it's like zebra pajamas.

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00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, It's like a zebra coat. Jeremy continues by saying,

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Speaker 3: I'm guessing the purpose of this is to protect the

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Speaker 3: horse from flies, as research indicates that zebra stripes confuse

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Speaker 3: flies so that fewer flies land on zebras then similar

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Speaker 3: size to mammals grazing with them, Best regards, Jeremy, and

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Speaker 3: then Jeremy says, PS, this is the second time the

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Speaker 3: subject matter of your podcast has coincided with my cycling

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Speaker 3: past a closely related physical object. The first was the

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Speaker 3: Finn McCool Giant's Causeway episode where I cycled past an

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Speaker 3: art installation representing it. I remember this email Jeremy, so

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Speaker 3: Jeremy has a habit of riding his bike past something

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Speaker 3: that we happen to be talking about on the podcast,

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Speaker 3: taking a picture of it and sending it our way.

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Speaker 2: Twilight Zone esque gift, you might say.

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Speaker 3: Yes. In fact, in another strange coincidence, this is not

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Speaker 3: even the only email of this nature that will be

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Speaker 3: in today's episode, Rob, do you remember the other one

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Speaker 3: we're going to be coming up to. Oh, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: we'll keep it secret for now. We'll get there in

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Speaker 3: a bit. But anyway, to come back to the zebra

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Speaker 3: stripe being draped over the horse's back, Yes, Jeremy, I

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Speaker 3: think your explanation for what you're seeing is correct. I

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Speaker 3: can't vouch directly for it actually working, but there are

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Speaker 3: agricultural suppliers who sell products called things like zebra fly

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Speaker 3: sheets or zebra rugs, and I think this is exactly

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Speaker 3: what we're seeing in the picture. It's a zebra costume

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Speaker 3: for a horse, but the ad copy clarifies that it

431
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 3: is meant to repel insects. And like I said, I

432
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: can't directly vouch from experience whether or not this works

433
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 3: on domestic horses, but it is based on some real science.

434
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: So I found a paper published in Plus one in

435
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen by Tim carrow at all called benefits of

436
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: zebra stripes behavior of tabinid flies around zebras and horses,

437
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 3: and to summarize this study, there have been lots of

438
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: hypotheses about the evolutionary reason for zebra stripes. Some researchers

439
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: think the stripes help regulate the body temperature to a

440
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 3: void overheating in the direct sun. Others have proposed that

441
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 3: there's some kind of predator avoidant strategy. Maybe they camouflage

442
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: or visually confuse predators. But another idea is that they

443
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: helped deter ectoparasites such as biting flies. This particular study

444
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: investigated that hypothesis, the flybiding one, and so the author's

445
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: write in their abstract quote, we examined the behavior of

446
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 3: tabanids horseflies in the vicinity of captive planes, zebras, and

447
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 3: uniformly colored domestic horses living on a horse farm in Britain.

448
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: Observations showed that fewer tabanids landed on zebras than on

449
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 3: horses per unit time, although rates of tabanids circling around

450
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: or briefly touching zebra and horse pelage did not differ.

451
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 3: In pellage. Of course, means like the thin layer of

452
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: fur covering the skin. So what they're saying here is

453
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 3: that in this experiment, there were equal numbers of flies

454
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: swarming around the horses and the zebras, but it seems

455
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 3: that the flies more difficulty landing on and biting the zebras,

456
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 3: even though there were just as many flying around them.

457
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: In a follow up experiment, the authors tested whether a

458
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: zebra patterned coat on a horse could reduce landings from

459
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 3: horseflies when compared to a coat of just a plain

460
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: uniform color like pure black or pure white, and once again,

461
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 3: the zebra stripes did reduce horsefly landings, though the horseflies

462
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: still landed on and bit the horse's exposed heads. So

463
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: why do the zebra stripes prevent horseflies from lighting, landing,

464
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: and biting the author's right quote. In separate detailed video analyzes,

465
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: tabanids approached zebras faster and failed to decelerate before contacting zebras,

466
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: and proportionately more tabanids simply touched rather than landed on

467
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: zebra pelage in comparison to horses. So it seems like

468
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: there's something about the black and white stripes that prevents

469
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 3: the flies from decelerating and landing on the animal's skin correctly,

470
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: so instead they're more likely to like miss or bump

471
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: into the surface of the animal and bounce off. I

472
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: would add that I read an article in the BBC

473
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: about the question of the biological function of zebra stripes,

474
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: and there is some controversy remaining, Like some zebra researchers

475
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: are not convinced this is the reason for the striping,

476
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 3: since they think the evolutionary pressure to avoid fly bites

477
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: is relatively low. So it's not like this question is

478
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: totally settled by this study, but it does seem like

479
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 3: there's pretty good evidence that zebra patterns greatly reduce landings

480
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: and bites from horseflies. So yeah, that is probably what

481
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: is going on in that picture, Jeremy, as you guessed

482
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: from looking at it. However, I have a question about this.

483
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a dumb question since I don't know anything

484
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 3: about caring for horses, But if you can get a

485
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: horse to wear a cloth covering, wouldn't, like any cloth

486
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: covering keep horseflies from biting them? Like, even if they

487
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: land on the claw, would the cloth itself not protect

488
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: the horse or could the flies bite through it? I

489
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: guess I don't know, but that's what I would have thought.

490
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 3: Farmers and ranchers. Fill me in. How does this work?

491
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: I will have to ask the various horse people in

492
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: my in my family. They may have the answers here

493
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: as well.

494
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let me know if you hear anything. But anyway,

495
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: thank you Jeremy for this interesting question. This was a

496
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 3: fun rabbit hole to dive down.

497
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: All right. This next one comes to us from someone

498
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: calling themselves pilot Light. I think it'll be obvious why.

499
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 3: In a second.

500
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: They ride in and they say, Robert and Joe. I

501
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: was laughing so hard at your recent Hair on Fire

502
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: Part one episode that I nearly had to pull off

503
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: the road on my way to work. Joe's admission that

504
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: he misunderstood the phrase somebody light a match to be

505
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: an expression of excitement in anticipation of some methane based

506
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: pyrotechnics drove me to tears, as did the tacit suggestion

507
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: that one could potentially light here to cover and especially

508
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: trip to the bathroom. One can only guess at the

509
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: old factory adventure that would result from the combination of

510
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: those two smells in an enclosed space. Anyway, keep up

511
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: the good work and thanks for the much needed pick

512
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: me up on the way to a dreary friday at work.

513
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: Feel free to use this on the air, and if

514
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: you do, you can refer to me as pilot light.

515
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: As you can see pilot light. That is exactly what

516
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: we did. Well. Yes, now we want to be clear.

517
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: We said this in the episode, but to be clear again,

518
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 3: we are not suggesting that anyone light hair on fire

519
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: in a bathroom to cover up a poop smell. But

520
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 3: we were just observing that the operative thing that seems

521
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: to cause a lit match to cover up any sort

522
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: of body or digestion related smells is the presence of

523
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: the sulfur compounds that are liberated when you strike a

524
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: match head. There's usually some kind of sulfur in a matchhead,

525
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: and that our noses and brains are especially sensitive to

526
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: sulfur related smells. The smell of sulfur compounds like sulfur dioxide,

527
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 3: and so they sort of take over our sense of

528
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: smell and make us not smell the other smell in

529
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: the background. And because there are similar sulfur based there's

530
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: some similar sulfur based olfactory chemistry at work. When we

531
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: smell burning hair, it's possible that a burning hair smell

532
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: could do a similar job. Again, not suggesting it.

533
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 2: All right.

534
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: This next message comes from Kenny, and this is a

535
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: response to the papers we talked about in the first

536
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: part of the Burning Hair series about research about the

537
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: combustibility of human hair in enriched oxygen environments, especially for

538
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: space exploration. It was all about ways that hair can

539
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 3: catch on fire in spacecraft environments with different types of

540
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: atmospheric composition. So Kenny says, Hi, Rob, Joe and jj

541
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the Burning Hair episodes. I wanted to

542
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: add some thoughts to Joe's discussion about the atmospheric mix

543
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 3: in spacecraft and how that might relate to the safety

544
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: of astronauts in zero G. Many astronauts report reductions in

545
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: their senses of taste and smell. This is due to

546
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: a build up of fluid in the face and sinuses

547
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: that would normally have drained away at least for the

548
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: first few weeks of emission. While these symptoms are at

549
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: their worst, it's possible your colleague's hair could be on

550
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: fire and you wouldn't be able to smell it. Yeah,

551
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: the stuffy nos astronauts syndrome is very common observation, and

552
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: from what I've read, and we've talked about this on

553
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: the show before, it's one reason that a lot of

554
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: astronauts really enjoy, especially kind of spicy foods like the

555
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: shrimp cocktail, which I guess has a kind of very

556
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: horse radishing sauce.

557
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, much preferred over the corn bread.

558
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 3: Kenney's message goes on. Secondly, it is of course true

559
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: that pure oxygen at standard atmospheric pressure enormously increases the

560
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: risk and severity of fire. Yeah, And that's what these

561
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 3: papers were about. They were about historical space missions that

562
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: have had enriched oxygen atmospheres, or it was also about

563
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: specific scenarios where there can be locally elevated oxygen levels,

564
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: for example, if someone is being given supplemental oxygen through

565
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: a mask for a medical reason. Kenny goes on, However,

566
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: we have been using pure oxygen equivalent to its partial

567
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: pressure in Earth's atmosphere for a long time. Put simply,

568
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: if your ship has a pure oxygen atmosphere at zero

569
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: point two bar, you would breathe perfectly normally and there

570
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 3: would be no greater risk of fire than aboard the

571
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: ISS with a full gas mix and one bar of pressure.

572
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: There are several advantages to this. You don't need to

573
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: bring a buffer gas to orbit with you, your pressure

574
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: vessel doesn't have to be built to contain one bar,

575
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: so it can be lighter, and your life support systems

576
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: are less complex. The downside is that astronauts must endure

577
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 3: decompression after boarding while the pressure is lowered. Anyway, Thanks

578
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: for a fascinating topic, Kenny, and yep, Kenny, that's exactly right.

579
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: Some of the stuff I was looking at also discussed

580
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: the idea of using lower pressure gas environments that did

581
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: just use pure oxygen but at lower pressure to reduce

582
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: the risk of fire. So yeah, that is another solution

583
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: to this problem.

584
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: All right. This next one comes to us from David.

585
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: David writes it and says a longtime listener, second time emailer,

586
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: I was listening to part one of the Hair on

587
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: Fire episode and did not expect what sounded like a

588
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: very niche subject to lead into so many interesting rabbit holes,

589
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: so many rabbit holes, just a step in, so many

590
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: rabbit holes and good stuff to belie your mind series.

591
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to write because when listening to the discussion

592
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: of the danger of burning hair and of accidental ignition

593
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: in spacecraft. My brain made a weird or maybe not

594
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: so weird association jump. When I was growing up, I

595
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: was very interested in paranormal phenomena. I watched Leonard Nimoy's

596
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: In Search of had a couple books, the titles of

597
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: which I don't remember anymore, etc. In addition to examples

598
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: of alien abductions, psychic phenomena, encryptids, these books include another

599
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: strange topic, spontaneous human combustion.

600
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: So I saw so many like documentaries about this on

601
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: TV when I was a kid. I thought it was

602
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: an incredibly common phenomenon.

603
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we've chatted about this before on the show,

604
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: singling out things like In Search Of, which when I

605
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: was a kid ran and rerun ran as reruns on

606
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: any I think, also unsolved mysteries and various other topics tabloids,

607
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: et cetera that just really hammered home things like spontaneous

608
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: human combustion and alien abduction and UFOs, And there wasn't

609
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: or at least I don't feel like I was properly

610
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: exposed to the skeptical analysis of all of this media.

611
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: And so as a kid, that's like I really felt

612
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: like these things were possible and could occur at any moment.

613
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: I feel like if they brought somebody on to provide

614
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: a skeptical point of view, it would almost just be

615
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: to like, look at this nerd who doesn't get it.

616
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that does get to the heart.

617
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: It's like the idea of spontaneous human combustion and psychic

618
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: phenomena and so forth, Like all of these ideas are

619
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: are far more exciting than the idea that they don't exist.

620
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: Uh So, Anyway, that being said, these topics are not

621
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: all equal. They're you know, the the scientific analysis of

622
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: them is different depending on the topic. So getting back

623
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: to the listener mail here and more specifically to spontaneous

624
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 2: human combustion, which we have talked about on the show

625
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: in the past, I believe, and it has come up

626
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: on of course Weird House Cinema as well. We did

627
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: the Toby Hooper film with spontaneous combustion Spontaneous Human which.

628
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: Was not about spontaneous combustion, it was about pyrokinesis.

629
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: Anyway, the email continues situations where a completely charred body

630
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: would be found in a house, often sitting on a couch,

631
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: but other than the portion of the furniture where the

632
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: person was sitting. Nothing else had burned, so the act

633
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: was if the person had simply spontaneously burst into flame

634
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: and been quickly consumed. Now, I think these stories are

635
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 2: basically debunked. Like many of the paranormal reports, they tended

636
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: to omit other surrounding facts, and a simple explanation was

637
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: the person fell asleep drunk while holding a cigarette, which

638
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: ignited some alcohol soaked on a portion of the couch.

639
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: I haven't listened to part two yet, Impossibly you cover

640
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: this spoiler. We did not, But given the flammability of hair,

641
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: could a very simple explanation of spontaneous human combustion be

642
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: something like cigarettes igniting hair.

643
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't want to make a definitive statement about

644
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 3: what could or could not happen for sure, but I

645
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: will say that the papers we were looking at in

646
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: that series about hair being a potent fuel source to

647
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: that would allow a flame to quickly spread if there

648
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: was an ignition point saying a spacecraft. We're specifically looking

649
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: at enriched oxygen environments, and I think there's a lot

650
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 3: less concern about that if there's just the normal atmospheric

651
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 3: composition that we live in on Earth. When there's high

652
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: levels of oxygen, things, things that are not normally a

653
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: dangerous source to fuel a flame can become such hair is,

654
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: you know, lightly combustible in regular atmosphere, but in enriched

655
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: oxygen it becomes very rapidly combustible.

656
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: All right, David has just a little bit more to say.

657
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: David says, now the somewhat stream of consciousness comments and questions.

658
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: Did you ever do an episode on this subject before?

659
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 2: I don't think I've heard about spontaneous human combustion in years.

660
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: Is it still making the rounds as one of the

661
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: unexplained phenomena. I'm also reminded of your discussion of how

662
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: pseudoscience thrives in low information and environments. I think an

663
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: episode on the transition of paranormal ideas into and out

664
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: of public consciousness over time could be very interesting. Once again,

665
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: thank you for the great podcast, David.

666
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: I think that is a really interesting idea. David'scific. What

667
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 3: I'm picking up your saying here is not so much

668
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: just looking at because often when we cover these types

669
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: of paranormal ideas, we look at them and say, like,

670
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: what are people saying about them?

671
00:36:59,560 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: Like?

672
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: What is the evidence? And then looking at you know what,

673
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: what could a more likely explanation be than these than

674
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: the supposed paranormal explanation. But a different way of looking

675
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: at these things is as historical social phenomena, like what

676
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: what makes a certain idea attractive at a certain time

677
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: and within a certain culture? Why does it become more

678
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 3: popular and more prevalent in people's minds? And then why

679
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: does it fade away? If it does? And uh and when?

680
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. A great example of this would be some episodes

681
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 2: we did in the past couple of years. I think

682
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: maybe it's older than that on cattle mutilation as as

683
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 2: as as an alleged phenomena. And when you get into

684
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 2: the to the like the timeliness of it, and the

685
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: like the social analysis of it, it's really interesting because

686
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: it gets down to like what what kind of anxieties

687
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: were it were on people's minds? Uh, you know, what

688
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: was going on in the world uh, politically? Uh? And

689
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: then what sort of low res information was out there

690
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: to turn with all of this in mind.

691
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So we looked at a paper in that

692
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: episode that was about the history of agriculture in the

693
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: United States, and it made some I recall very interesting

694
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: arguments about why it was specifically in the nineteen seventies

695
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: that people were inclined to come across a you know,

696
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: a cows or a horse or you know, some animal

697
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 3: on a ranch that had suffered some kind of death

698
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: or injuries and interpret it as part of a conspiracy

699
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: or a broader phenomenon had to do with like economic

700
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: pressures affecting ranchers in the seventies.

701
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it would be I think we

702
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: should come back and do spontaneous human combustion because I mean,

703
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: I think there is an obvious case to be made

704
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: about about low res information playing a role here because

705
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: I've I just remember from having read about it and

706
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: watched documentaries in the past. You do see some at

707
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: times rather blurry forensic photos, like crime scene photography of

708
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: somebody who has burned, and you know, it's grizzly shocking,

709
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: but you don't necessarily know what you're looking at. And

710
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: even if you're dealing a situation like this or just

711
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 2: in you know, in the broader sense, when you're dealing

712
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: with forensic photos. Forensic photos are a great example of

713
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: something that can be very impactful but requires expertise to

714
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: properly analyze what you're looking at. And if you do

715
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: not have the proper expertise to analyze those photographs and

716
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: the context in which to analyze them, you can certainly

717
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: go in various directions with them and use them to

718
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: prop up any pet idea you have in your head.

719
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly as we talked about in that episode,

720
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: Unjustified spurious conclusions thrive in a space where where information

721
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 3: is low, both in the sense of the direct information

722
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: you're looking at, say like the resolution of a photograph

723
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 3: of a crime scene or the number of details you

724
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 3: have about it, but also when information is low as

725
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: background knowledge, like you don't have the expertise or the experience,

726
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: you know, looking at scenes like this to know what

727
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: something usually means when it's present. Anyway, thank you, David.

728
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: Let's see Rob. I'm gonna do this message from Ahmed.

729
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: All right, light it up.

730
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: So this one is also about hair on fire, and

731
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: the subject line is sulfur in hair and disulfide bonds. Again,

732
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: the context of this message was the part of our

733
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: discussion about the characteristic smell of burning hair and how

734
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 3: it's primarily due to the presence of sulfur in the

735
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: keratin of our hair, which gets liberated by combustion and

736
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: forms volatile sulfur compounds like sulfur dioxide, which has a

737
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: very pungent smell. Ahmed says, hey, guys, I wanted to

738
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: write in about your recent episodes on burning hair and

739
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 3: especially the role of sulfur. Particularly, I wanted to mention

740
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 3: how these structural properties of hair and its high sulfur

741
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 3: content are no coincidence. As you have mentioned on the

742
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: show before, Our proteins are made of twenty one canonical

743
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: amino acids that come in many flavors, differing in size,

744
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: charge no charge versus positive versus negative, hydrophilicity versus hydrophobicity, etc.

745
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: That dictate how a protein folds in three D space.

746
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: Two of these amino acids contain sulfur, and the sulfur

747
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: containing one that's relevant for this is cysteine that's spelled cystei.

748
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 3: The cool thing about cysteine is that it has a

749
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: sulfur bonded to a hydrogen jutting out from the protein backbone,

750
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 3: but that it easily can lose the hydrogen to bond

751
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: with another cysteine, and this forms the structure that sort

752
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 3: of goes protein sulfur sulfur protein. Unlike the weaker and

753
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: more wiggly bonds between positive and negative, between hydrophobic and hydrophobic,

754
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 3: or between hydrophilic and hydrophilic, these disulfide bonds can really

755
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: staple a protein into a shape, and because of the

756
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: way a protein folds in three dimensions, you can have

757
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: parts that are very far away in linear space looping

758
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 3: back on each other and getting bolted into that conformation

759
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: by disulfides. The twenty one natural amino acids aren't universally

760
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: represented in the human proteome, and cystine is on the

761
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 3: rarer side, making up just about two percent of amino

762
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 3: acids used for our proteins. However, for hair keratins, the

763
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 3: big rope like proteins that are the main component of hair, skin, nails,

764
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 3: et cetera, a wopping eighteen percent of its amino acids

765
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: are cystine. Not all cystines exist in a disulfide bonded state, though,

766
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 3: and an even larger percentage of the cystine in nail

767
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: and horn keratins exist as disulfide bonds. Again, that's protein

768
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 3: sulfur sulfur protein, rather than as free proteins, at least

769
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 3: partially explaining the spectrum of toughness in keratin rich tissues.

770
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: On a more basic biology note, cystines are said to

771
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 3: be oxidized when disulfide bonded and to be reduced when

772
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: having just a hydrogen. Many cellular pathways are devoted to

773
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: striking this balance of an oxidizing versus a reducing environment

774
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: just right. And this is something that can change even

775
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 3: depending on what part of a cell you're in. So

776
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: next time somebody is pushing an overpriced berry bowl on

777
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 3: you because it's a good source of antioxidants, I encourage

778
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: you to yell at them about how you don't want

779
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: to undo all of your disulfides and melt into a

780
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 3: pile of unstructured goo. Thank you very much. Anyways, keep

781
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 3: up the great work, Ahmed. Well, thank you, Ahmed. Very

782
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 3: interesting and informative email. Love people who love it when

783
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 3: listeners can fill in chemistry details like this. That's wonderful.

784
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: But hey, don't knock berry bowls. Berries are great. I

785
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: love berries.

786
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: Berry They're great and they're good for you. They're just

787
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: a little pricey.

788
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: Here's a science fact. I want to know. How can

789
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 3: you tell before you bite into a blueberry, whether it's

790
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 3: going to be like delicious and juicy or grainy. I

791
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: can't figure out away by looking at the outside.

792
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: You just got to go for it. That's the only

793
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: way sometimes. Yeah, fruit in general, it's an experience. You

794
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: don't know until you cut open that watermelon if it's

795
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: going to be pretty good or great. You don't know

796
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: if the candle ope is going to be life changing

797
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 2: or like a little gross. It just it varies tremendously.

798
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: For my own part, I would say the candle ope

799
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 2: is that the riskiest of the melons to cut into.

800
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: You never know what you're going to get. It could

801
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: be life changing, it could be extremely bland or even

802
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: a little sickly tasting.

803
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 3: Have we ever talked about savory preparations of melons on

804
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 3: the show before? I don't know that we have the

805
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: thing that would would have come up. I don't know.

806
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of that. When you get like a

807
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: good like savory salad with honeydew, melon and candleope in it,

808
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: that's right. Sometimes with like pershudo, or you can just

809
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 3: have it with a sort of like savory vinaigrette.

810
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the recipe we would make of the house

811
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: that is a vegetarian poke bowl that uses watermelon in

812
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: place of fish, and it's really quite good. Yeah, it's

813
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: like you have the watermelon sl I says, and you

814
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: have your dressing and some salt on those sliced watermelon,

815
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: and yeah, it scratches the edge for sure.

816
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: Nice.

817
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 2: All right. Well, as we begin to move in towards

818
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: the end of this episode, let's let's look at a

819
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: few weird house cinema centric listener mails. This first one

820
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: comes to us from Lex, and we teased this one

821
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: out earlier. Lex writes and says, Robin Joe, this is

822
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 2: a short message, but I felt like I had to

823
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: write in. I was listening to your weird house rewind

824
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: about the beast with five fingers when I walk past

825
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: a statue that is near my office called Judy's Hand.

826
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: Your description about disembodied hands gave me a new appreciate

827
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: appreciation for this weird piece of public art in Cleveland.

828
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: It is kind of hard to appreciate how strange this

829
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: thing is to see in person. It is huge, twenty

830
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: one feet tall in weighs seven tons. It was based

831
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 2: on a cast of the hand of the artist's wife,

832
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: and is in part of a commentary on the original

833
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: form of shelter. From the elements being the hand, it

834
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: is large enough for a group of people to stand underneath.

835
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: I also included some links about the piece and also yeah,

836
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: some photographs. They are quite quite intimidating and amazing because

837
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: it is to be clear, the hand is very much

838
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: in the sort of pose we imagine for a disembodied

839
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: hand crawling around on a table. Looks like thing from

840
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: the Adams family, except again twenty one feet tall and

841
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: you know, has like a silvery or grayish coloration to it.

842
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just looked it up. It's apparently it's sort

843
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 3: of a cross from the Museum of Contemporary Art in Cleveland, Ohio.

844
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 3: And it's so it is meant in a way as

845
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: a public shelter, like lex says here. So it's like,

846
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 3: I guess, like a bus station cover, you know, like

847
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 3: you can stand under it if it's raining. But there

848
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: and the name of the the artist, by the way,

849
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: is Tony Tassit, and the is his wife, Judy Ledgerwood.

850
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: But the crazy thing about this is it's kind of flexed,

851
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 3: so it looks like any moment the hand is going

852
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: to close on whatever is beneath it? Do you know

853
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 3: what I'm saying?

854
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's kind of a sense of like the

855
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: wrathful hand of God coming down from above here, but

856
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 2: also the sheltering hand of God. I guess it depends

857
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 2: on your exact theological perspective here, but.

858
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: It is very, very beast with five fingers.

859
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: Yes, so Le says, thanks as always for making such

860
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: an awesome show. Here's hoping it goes on for many,

861
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: many years to come. All right, now, I'm just going

862
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: to preface for the next couple of weird house cinema messages.

863
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: These have to do with the Devil Bat movie. And

864
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: in our episode on the Devil Bat, I quoted a

865
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 2: Michael Weldon review or I honestly can't remember as Michael

866
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: Weldon or one of the other authors that are sometimes

867
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: the reviewers in his books, but anyway, it's from the

868
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: Psychotronic Film Guides, and it points out that the sequel

869
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: to the Devil Bat What Devil Bat's Daughter something like

870
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: that Daughter Bad something like that pointed out that it

871
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: is a cheat sequel. It is a sequel that like

872
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: betrays what you actually saw on scene on screen in

873
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: the first film like makes you like to it basically

874
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: like Gaslights, you about everything that came before in the franchise,

875
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 2: and we heard from some people who made a connection

876
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: between this and another film we've talked about on the

877
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: show before.

878
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: That's right, okay. So our first message, the more belligerent

879
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: of the two, is from our listener Rob. The subject

880
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 3: line Highlander two. Rob says, I tried to be open

881
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 3: minded when you ran two episodes about Highlander two, the Quickening.

882
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 3: You ridiculed hardcore Highlander fans like me who saw the

883
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 3: original in the theater and then loathed that sequel when

884
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 3: it came out, implying that we were closed minded about

885
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: the movie. I usually trust your cinematic recommendations, but nope,

886
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 3: you could not convince me. Uh okay. And then in

887
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 3: this next paragraph, Rob makes an analogy to a movie

888
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 3: without naming it that I'm not sure I get, but

889
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: maybe we can hash this out afterwards. Rob goes on

890
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 3: to say Highlander two is like if you were watching

891
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: a certain movie about a doctor and a boy, avoiding spoilers,

892
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: being blown away by the ending, then going back and

893
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 3: rewatching the restaurant scene to find that the doctor and

894
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 3: his wife had a long conversation argued about who would

895
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: pay the check, hugged, kissed, and then walked out hand

896
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 3: in hand. If I could rewatch Highlander and be blown

897
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,479
Speaker 3: away to realize that they were aliens the whole time,

898
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 3: sure I'd be on board. But No, Highlander two is

899
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 3: inconsistent with the original and negates everything that was great

900
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 3: about it. I was letting your lapse in judgment about

901
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 3: the movie slide until I just finished listening to the

902
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 3: Devil Bat episode in which you ridicule the sequel because

903
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: it is so inconsistent with the original. I couldn't hold

904
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: my tongue slash pen slash keyboard any longer. Love your

905
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: show except for two episodes. Well, thank you, Rob, and

906
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 3: I appreciate the passion. Let's see. Yeah, what is the

907
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 3: difference there?

908
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

909
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 3: I guess it's that, like Highlander two was, it is

910
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 3: so silly and so fun that it's just hard to

911
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 3: really care. I guess part of my opinion when we

912
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 3: were doing that episode was to give give people the

913
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 3: freedom to set yourself free from concerns about canon. You know,

914
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 3: it's like storytelling. Storytelling is fluid that you may find that,

915
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you don't feel this way, but you

916
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: may find you're more able to enjoy storytelling when you're

917
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 3: less concerned about consistency.

918
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: But you know, to each their own, Yeah, I mean

919
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: I agree with that. I mean I also agree with

920
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 2: what Rob said. It's I mean, it's a fair cop

921
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 2: that that Highland Or two does make drastic changes to

922
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: what worked in the first film and what people loved

923
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: about the first film. So yeah, you know, I want

924
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 2: to be clear, if you don't like high Or two

925
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,919
Speaker 2: and you're like a Highlander one is all you want

926
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: and all you need, it's totally fine. Highlander one is

927
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: a super fun film, says. I think it's still a

928
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: super weird film and it definitely has its own goofiness

929
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: going on. But you know, fair enough if you don't

930
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: want to ride the Highland or two train as well.

931
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 3: I think we were scoffing at the idea of Devil

932
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 3: Bat's daughter, I would say, at least for my part,

933
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 3: because I hadn't seen it, and it sounded like a

934
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: movie that there aren't actually any devil bats in so

935
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: so I don't know that made me less sympathetic to it.

936
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 3: I think maybe if I saw a devil Bat's daughter

937
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, this is a this is

938
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 3: a heck of a fun ride. Then I would probably

939
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 3: also be saying about that, like who cares that it

940
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: completely negates everything that happened in the first movie.

941
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, as for the film with the doctor and

942
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: the Boy that he's referencing, I could be wrong. I

943
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: think maybe he's referencing the sixth sense here and more

944
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: maybe more generally, referencing a certain type of twist ending

945
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: film that doesn't really bear repeat viewings, because if you

946
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: know what the twist is, it doesn't work, you know. Yeah,

947
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: I think two thousand and three is high tension as

948
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: an example of this for me. I mean it has

949
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: some other I think noticeable flaws that don't hold up

950
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: well for other reasons, but it also depends a lot

951
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: on a twist, and if you rewatch it knowing what

952
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 2: the twist is, I don't know if it works.

953
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 3: But I'd say extra credit to a movie that where

954
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: the twist makes a rewatch even more interesting.

955
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, that's one thing that I

956
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: often stick to. It's like spoilers, Yeah, avoid spoilers, Yeah,

957
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: go into a film fresh. But a really good movie

958
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: is not going to be spoiled by its spoilers, you know,

959
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: because it's not just about what will happen, it's how

960
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: are you going to get there, How are you going

961
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: to portray it, how are you going to bring that

962
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: to life on the screen.

963
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I would say a really good story is

964
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: not going to be completely spoiled by knowing plot things

965
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 3: that come. There are other pleasures than just the discovery

966
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: of the plot, but the discovery of the plot is

967
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 3: one of the pleasures of a story. So, like, you know,

968
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 3: there's still a you know, there's still a reason to

969
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 3: want to not know the ending in advance, if it's

970
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 3: if it's a really great story, and especially if the

971
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 3: ending is something that's not formulaic and one wouldn't be

972
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 3: likely to see coming. Yeah, but I agree with you,

973
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 3: it's not everything there is.

974
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: All right. Well, here's another take on it. This is

975
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 2: from Lawrence. Lawrence says, Hey, guys, I'm writing you immediately

976
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: following viewing Devilbats Daughter, the sort of sequel to the

977
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 2: Devil Bat which you recently discussed on Weird House. I

978
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: love the initiative. Way back when you covered Highlander two,

979
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 2: I got on my phone just minutes into the podcast

980
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: and purchased both the Zeist and Renegade versions. I found

981
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: a package deal on eBay where I could buy them

982
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 2: both on two VHS tapes for six dollars total. Back

983
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: to that later.

984
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 3: Wow, hats off to you, Lawrence getting those VHS tapes

985
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 3: from eBay. That's beautiful.

986
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: When you started talking about The Devil Bat having a sequel,

987
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: I went on Amazon and order DVDs of both films.

988
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: The original came in a couple of days, but I

989
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 2: had to wait longer for the second film. I really

990
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: enjoyed The Devil Bat, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

991
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: I like Devil Bat's Daughter as well, but it's a

992
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: rather different film. While the first film has much of

993
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: the look and feel of the Warner Brothers horror franchise,

994
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,720
Speaker 2: Daughter doesn't fit easily into any genre. It's part psychological drama,

995
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: part romance, part detective story, and maybe a little film noir.

996
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: Like the first film, it has a few lovely performances

997
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 2: in small character roles, and while No One and Daughter

998
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 2: has the star power of Legosi, Rosemary Laplanche is compelling

999
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: as Nina, the late doctor Carruthers strange daughter and Michael

1000
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: Hale is deliciously creepy as her strict and controlling psychotherapist

1001
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: daughter is a bit of a slow burn, especially toward

1002
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: the start. But I think it's worth going the distance

1003
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: about Highlander too. When I listened to your podcast, I

1004
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: couldn't remember if i'd seen it. When I viewed it,

1005
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: I knew I had my brother, my dad, and I

1006
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: had rented Highlander on VHS and watched it together. We

1007
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 2: loved it. When the sequel out on VHS, we watched

1008
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: that as well. We enjoyed it, but it felt more

1009
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: like a send up of the original than a sequel,

1010
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: and more comedy adventure than a fantasy film. We especially

1011
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: thought Sean Connery was magnificent in it. He does have

1012
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 2: that great monologue towards the end.

1013
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, most people have a full measure of life.

1014
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,919
Speaker 2: In some ways. Perhaps the relationship devil Bat's daughter has

1015
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: to the Devil Bat is a bit like that of

1016
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: the quickening to Highlander. In each case, the second film

1017
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: stands well enough on its own, but neither is an

1018
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: especially satisfying sequel to its other. Both sequels feel disconnected

1019
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: from their predecessors, at least to me, but both very

1020
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: worth watching in their own ride. If you haven't seen

1021
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: Devil Bat's Daughter yet, I recommend it. Oh and I

1022
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 2: didn't care for the renegade version of the Quickening at all.

1023
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: They got it as right as they were going to

1024
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 2: get it the first time. Thanks guys, Lawrence.

1025
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 3: Bravo Lawrence. Well, I think that's going to have to

1026
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 3: be it for today's listener mail episode. But we still

1027
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 3: have some great messages that we did not have time

1028
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 3: to get to today, so we may be doing another

1029
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 3: one of these sooner than expected. Who knows.

1030
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, these may be a nice option to roll

1031
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: out in between series, you know, three or four part

1032
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: series and so forth. So yeah, there will be more

1033
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: listener mails, so keep them coming in. We also had

1034
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 2: plenty that we didn't get to in this episode, so

1035
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 2: we will be back for more. Just a reminder. The

1036
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and

1037
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On

1038
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: Wednesdays we do a short form episode. On Fridays we

1039
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: do a weird House Cinema episode. That's when we set

1040
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,959
Speaker 2: aside most serious concerns and just talk about a weird film,

1041
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: and then we have a Vault episode on Saturdays, and

1042
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: then currently in the Monday slot, we're doing Weird House

1043
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 2: Cinema rewinds.

1044
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1045
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1046
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1047
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1048
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to blow

1049
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1050
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 1: Stuffed Blow your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1051
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1052
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.